What If… Ultron Won

Hey, this is Josh Keaton, and you are listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. I am the Watcher.

I am your guide through these vast new realities.

Follow me. And ponder the question... What if?

Hello and welcome to an all -new generation of

Tooncast. This is our 242nd episode. I am, of

course, one of your hosts, TF2 and Mike. Joining

me is one of the BAM crew members, Allison Richards

from the Fortress of Bailey Tudes Superman and

Lois tapes. Hi Allison, how are you? I'm good.

How are you? I am trying to be calm, just trying

to be still and not worry about stuff that I

need to worry about, which sucks. So there's

that. And you can worry about it another day.

Because the lift will be there anyway. Sadly,

it will. We've seen this before, a universe in

the final days of destruction. But this particular

story, this one breaks my heart. We are welcoming

you to Tooncast and the Geekcast Radio Network's

Hashtag Superhero Saturdays. We only have one

week left after this, where we will be giving

you our spoiler -filled discussions on Marvel

Studios' new animated series, What if, so I don't

have a what if question for this one, because

if Ultron won, we'd all be gone. Yikes. Yeah.

What if what what if what if you what if you

survive? If you were the last person on Earth

is pretty much what that comes down to. Yeah.

It would be boring. Well, it seems that Clinton

and Natasha kept themselves entertained. Or at

least Natasha kept themselves entertained. Well,

I mean, if they have each other, yeah. And Natasha

always keeps herself entertained. And this is

the episode you were talking about where she's

her badass self on the motorcycle. And in other

news... Scar Jo and Disney have come to a settlement.

Of course, it's behind closed doors and all that

and whatever else, but at least it's no longer

going to be news. Well, not only that, but she

deserved to have her pay. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

So we have What if Ultron 1? And wow, what an

episode this was. Yeah, I mean, Age of Ultron

is my favorite MCU movie, mainly because I get

both a really good Hawkeye story and I get my

one movie with Quicksilver in it. So it's actually

kind of scary thinking of what would have happened

if they... If they didn't get the cradle Because

there are many ways that they that that ultron

could have You know could have gotten himself

into there if it wasn't for You know the Avengers

and if it wasn't for Wanda I Mean Wanda is the

one that that really instigated it because Wanda,

you know taking Helen Cho from being You know

all, you know, mind controlled by the staff,

you know, that he would have won. And this is

what would have happened, apparently. So thank

you, Wanda. Thank you, Wanda Maximoff. Yeah,

it's funny after. So as of this recording, I

have now seen Season one episode eight. What

if Ultron won four different times? Well, the

first time I was just sitting here and letting

audacity record the audio so I can get clips

the clips that I put in the final podcast and

everything else and Apparently I after it was

done instead of clicking save I clicked X so

I had to re -record it like 20 minutes ago And

then obviously I watch it at least twice to make

sure I get everything or I see notice everything

that I can notice. The end of the world began

with one man's dream. I see a suit of armor around

the world. He saw a world of peace. With the

Mind Stone, Tony Stark created Ultron. But Ultron

only saw one path to peace. The elimination of

all light. Do we know? Have they explained it

all? about Clint's robot arm? So from what I

gather, this is from what I gather, this is taking

place. It has to be at least a couple of months

minimum from when the world exploded through

you know, maybe a year or two because I want

to think it's going to be a lot longer than just

a couple of months because they know exactly

how long it takes for Upload links how long it's

all that Clint has got this amazing, you know,

like invisible cloak You know that that blends

them into the snow um you know and just eventually

clint clint is the one who who who takes a lot

of risks because he puts himself in high places

whereas nat is usually on the ground so i wouldn't

be surprised if you know clint You know lost

he lost the arm in battle just like it got shot

off in this battle You know and it looks kind

of like it had the same Connection to his shoulder

to his collarbone and and and such that Bucky

has Yep, which means that Unless that if Nat

Did it herself for him? That would have been

a really scary thing, but she would have access

to the records on how they did it to Bucky. Or

that somehow Bucky survived long enough to that

point where when Clint got injured, they were

able to help him with it. Because there's a couple

of ways it could go. we think about time frame

of where it happens in the MCU arc. This is going

to be Age of Ultron. So Bucky is Bucky's no longer,

you know, Winter Soldier. He is he's he's finished.

We finished the the Captain America Winter Soldier.

movie right before this. So he is no longer brainwashed.

He's a fugitive, but he's still out there. You

figured that Wakanda hasn't been brought in yet.

So technically Wakandans, with their shield technology,

depending on how the missile stuff happens, Wakanda

could be safe. So there are a lot of options

on how Clinton Natasha wouldn't be the last people

on earth immediately But they are probably The

only people in Russia right now for sure so between

either shuri or Bucky, you know Natasha going

to Bucky they would have figured out how to help

him But it definitely wasn't Tony because Tony

died but while they while he still had two arms

Yeah Yeah, it's just absolutely crazy yeah, and

it's so interesting to see that side of this

where what if Ultron one and You know, he gets

the body of vision and he gets to this and he

gets to that. Ultron required one thing, an organic

body, to call his own. One that fused the powers

of man, machine, and mind into one. In your universe,

the Avengers stole the cradle and used it to

create the hero, Vision. But in this universe,

Ultron got his wish. With the infinite power

of the Mind Stone, Ultron began. Well, there's

a couple of things that suspension of disbelief

really, really kind of made me have to stop and

be like, but is this real? Can you know, could

he actually have survived this? Like being shoved

into the molten core of a planet? I am we saw

that with Ultron vibranium melted when vision

Thor and Iron Man were aiming all their beans

at once at Ultron in Age of Ultron Right. I really

want to know how the heck that he did it melt

in as Captain Marvel shoved him into the molten

core of a planet Kind of also want to know how

Captain Marvel did it melt, but you know She

at least has you know, like magic alien powers

I don't I mean I Want to say this the stones

Could be responsible, but we already saw that

when he heated up the glove to get the stones

the stones were made the gold melted away Mm

-hmm. So for me, that's kind of a whole how did

The rest of it stay. But the age of Ultron was

only beginning. Fascinating. And not melt away.

How did the vibramian manage to hold up in a

molten core? So, you know, that kind of sat made

me sit back and be like, wait a minute. Also

the thing that really kind of got the the other

thing that like really confused me in this episode

is that the Watcher is talking about the story

in past tense and yet Ultron can hear him in

the moments. The realization nearly broke the

machine. With his mission complete, Ultron was

now just a program without a purpose. The victor

without a war, sentenced to spend all of eternity...

alone. Who... who said that? Basking in the boundless

silence of his universe, Ultron ascended to a

previously unattainable level of consciousness.

He became aware of another. He became aware of

the... I see you. There are universes beyond

my own. I have seen everything that has ever

happened, ever will happen, ever could happen,

and yet... What the hell is this? Yeah. And that

was like a tense breaker. Oh, yeah. Because again,

just like in the strange episode, when strange

was like, Who's that? Who's there? I can see

you. You're not supposed to be able to see me,

you know. But this one was way scarier. This

one was way more creepy. Yeah. And I will say

this right now for anyone listening. I need to

read up on The Watcher. I do not know a lot about

his character overall. And again, this is the

Marvel Cinematic Universe. This isn't taking

him from the comics. But the general gist I get

is that he, as he says, he's not supposed to

intervene. He's supposed to just observe. And

Ultron basically throws that back in his face

and says, well, that's really creepy on your

part. You should have intervened. You should

have done something to save this universe. the

other thing is is like the way that they've set

the watcher up is that the watcher the watcher

wasn't a character the watcher was a storyteller

he was being used as a storyteller so how does

the storyteller who is telling of something that

has happened and he is speaking to the audience

and not actually like allowed to to the world

in general. How does Ultron even hear him in

the first place? I mean, does the Watcher just

like, you know, audibly dictate his stories aloud

when he is talking to him? Does he talk to himself

as he is, you know, being a storyteller? I think

it's because Ultron is constantly evolving the

way, the way I'm thinking of it. And I, you know,

you can correct me if I'm wrong. It's kind of

like a mezzo where a mezzo was always evolving.

A mezzo was evolving past was or where he started

kind of thing. And I think with this version

of Ultron, he's, he's doing that and, and You

know, there are plenty of a million in a lifetime

scenarios and the watcher even says, this isn't

supposed to, you know, this isn't supposed to

happen. You're not supposed to be able to blah,

blah, blah. Well, sorry, I can. And now I'm going

to screw your little world, your little shard

class world here up. I had a fun time with this

for as many times as I've seen this every time

that I watched it. It was fresh each time. I

absolutely loved Clint and Nat and everything

that they did. I love the Zola stuff. I thought

that was great. Yeah. I loved, I loved how we

kind of got a bit of the whole, um, what would

have happened if Clint had died instead of Nat?

Yeah. But it wasn't like the actual the endgame

version but it had so much Come back like callbacks

to it because not only did you have the whole

The whole let me go. Let me do this. I'm you

know that needs to be me Dialogue even though

Clint says he's tired of fighting. He goes down

fighting You know, because I love the beauty

of him turning and that one shot that artistic

shot like it's like right after the arrow has

embedded in the in the Ultron century and it

goes before the explosion happens. It's that

yellow shot of just him coming down with his

arrow. prepped ready to fly and you have all

the Ultrons coming up at him. Like I want that

frame. That was a beautiful image. But you even

see the symmetry then in Natasha after she realizes

that Clint is gone and you see her when she drops

the shield into her knees and she closes her

eyes and drops her head. That is almost perfect

match to Clint's pose in Endgame after he got

the Soul Stone. And it was just, I love that

symmetry and that the artists do things like

that to capture these. Key MCU moments and find

a way to bring their that imagery back into these

episodes Yeah, absolutely The whole Nat and Clint

thing like you said in the last episode I think

it was or it might have been in your origins

episode over on the pull bag they are brother

and sister, there's never really gonna be romantic

things going on with them. With each other anyway.

And not in the MCU. No, I don't think so. And

that's fine. That's that's the way it should

be, I think. And not much has become the poly

poly relationship with Laura and I'm down for

that, you know. I'm there for the first kid being

Nat and Klitz, you know, Cooper. I want to know.

OK, so we know that their world is basically

destroyed. Yeah, their their wars is is suffering

from nuclear. Yeah. Yeah. I want to know. Besides

obviously dealing with a nuclear winter kind

of thing. I want to know what in the hell did

Clint go through to just feel like Completely

defeated like if he would have looked like what

and of course he even says it himself This is

pointless wait Don't sit down get up come on

you're human You keep hope against the worst

of odds. Hey, Clint, come on. If we want to take

down Ultron, we need an AI that can combat his

code. Yes, I know, but it's not here. It's right

there. Sorry to break it to you, Nat. The Death

Star plans are not in the main computer. The

answer is right there. We're gonna find it. It

just takes time. What are we going to avenge

when we're 90? You're frustrated. I get it. I'm

not frustrated. I'm not. I'm tired, okay? We've

all lost so much. And I'm not sure there's anything

left worth fighting for. He's already taken over

every program on the planet. And the watcher

even says it. Oh, you're so close. You're so

close. And then he just sits down and starts

pouting and gives up. And all of a sudden, Nat

comes in, finds the folder, and she's like, oh,

OK. He's like, but that's my box. I found it.

I did it. It's like, oh, come on, Clint. What's

going on with you, man? So I want to know what

the hell happened. His wife and children were

wiped out in a nuclear fallout. There's that,

yeah. There's that. um you know his uh he pretty

much you know has lost like all the avengers

who were his second family you know he's lost

shield all that so you know he's lost that family

all he has is that and you know now then now

he's lost his arm you know and he's older than

her too you know this This Clint is is got to

be at the point of age of Ultron. You figure

the older kids got to be, you know, 10, 12, maybe

in in Ultron, maybe a little bit younger, but

not more than but but not more than eight at

the latest at the at the most how young he is.

Because right now I'm teaching, you know, um,

you know, um, I was with the fifth grade today

and he's taller than a fifth grader. So, you

know, he's probably, you know, middle schools,

like six, seventh grader, the youngest. So you

figure if the kid's 10, you know, uh, that means

that Clint's at least in his 30s because he probably

didn't meet Laura until he was getting close

to being in shield or you know he met Laura after

he was in shield and I'm pretty sure even if

they follow comic history Clint didn't leave

the circus until he was 16 So he would at early

he would have been drafted into agents of shield

at 18 so Putting him 1820 You know when he meets

Laura, so yeah, he's in his 30s and age of Ultron

which would put him in mid thirties for this

episode. So mid thirties, having lost your entire

family, your wife, your kids, you know, your

coworkers, your mentors, and then you lose your

good arm and your, your, your, your key defining

factor of your life is your aim and your ability

to use this weapon. And you have lost part of

your body that is used for it Yeah, that is a

lot of psychological trauma plus the PTSD of

being probably the last man on earth right now

Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm just saying Even with

the little things that he says in this episode.

Yeah, and even with everything you just said

I like It's a thing where we've said where we

want more of the certain parts of the stories

in these up in these in these cartoons Uh -huh,

and I just kind of I was like I want some sort

of Not necessarily a flashback but some sort

of Clint recap and you just kind of gave it to

me probably but it's one of those things where

I Would love to see something Like to get him

to the point of at the end where he's like, you

know, let me do this I'm you know, I'm tired.

I'm tired of being tired. I just want to go Mm

-hmm, you know And man was that That was one

of the most emotional moments this entire series

I would say that and and The the Christine thing

I guess I don't know. Yeah There's Yeah, just

just a lot of emotional and They're definitely

like like we've already said they're definitely

heading somewhere obviously next week is the

big everybody get together. Everybody try to,

you know, cause, uh, you know, originally season

ender. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying.

Like next week is, is, is it for season one of,

of what if, and according to, so as we know,

it is part of phase four. The second season could

be released as early as 2022. Winderbombs said

it was in their intention to release a new season

of What If annually. So supposedly, if it continues

to do what it's doing, you know, engaging people

and telling interesting stories within the Marvel

Cinematic Universe and alternate stories, we

could get a season of that, you know, we could

get five over the next five years, we could get

four more seasons, who knows? Well, and that's

the thing is that as they keep making as they

keep making movies and they keep making content.

So even like, you know, WandaVision and Loki

and all of those, they have the ability to keep

finding episodes to make. Because, you know,

I'm sure that already there's going to be a,

I'm sure there's going to be a whole, you know,

What if it wasn't Agatha, you know There will

probably be a you know You know, they can keep

revisiting some of these worlds that they've

already visited and find fraction points within

them Like, you know, what if on um, you know,

what if I'm party worlds, you know party Thor,

you know What if it you know, what if Fran didn't

come? you know, and, or what if, uh, you know,

what if in, in, in Loki, what, you know, they

can go and make a seasons off of the entire variance,

you know? So, so yeah, there's a lot of, there's

a lot of stories that they can still. Yeah. I

just thought of something and I don't think this

could ever happen because I don't think we've

had. No, we haven't had Spider -Ham in MCU yet,

but if we ever got Spider -Ham in a movie, you

could have Spider -Ham and Alligator Loki teaming

up. Oh my God. No, but we do know Spider -Ham

does exist in the multiverse because Spider -Ham

is into the Spider -verse. True. So we do know

he exists in the multiverse. Very true, very

true. Because Miles Morales is part of the multiverse.

Yep, absolutely. Anything else on what if Ultron

1? Did we miss anything? Did we not bring anything

up that we were supposed to? Glen? Glen? Is this

my color? Come on. Don't try to make this fun,

Nat. My will to live meter is flatlining the

the Crimson Guardian shield And then click and

then her turn to click click this is my color

my color, you know Yeah, I know I loved I love

those moments Yeah, you know, I loved I love

how Matt kept trying to keep Clint moving Yeah,

you know Yeah, it was the positive one and he

was like It's all gone. It's all dead. It's all

whatever. Yeah, which is also another throw to

endgame Because when Laura and the kids, you

know were dusted look at what happened to Clint

Yeah, and in that so also a world where? That

wasn't involved in Clint's life Whereas here,

not it. So that shows a little bit of difference

in Clint that Clint doesn't go all, you know,

murder ninja. You know, he's still fighting a

good fight, you know, and not fighting a fight

where he is kind of just hoping to get himself

killed in doing it. You know, because because

honestly, that's part of what Ronan uh felt like

at one point was just part of him you know he's

trying to do he's trying to you be the bad person

to take out the worst people because he doesn't

really have anything else to live for so he can

at least do this and if they lose him you know

if the world isn't going to have a problem with

it natasha would eventually Yeah, and I'm pretty

sure I really wish that I was that there were

scenes written of Natasha and Clint catching

up on that flight back Because I would love to

have been a fly on the wall. Like what were you

thinking? But um, but at the same time it's um

You know, so you had so you had that symmetry

where you actually got to see what kind of what

Natasha's influence with Clint would have been

like to keep him going to keep him on doing on

the right side. Also, can we just say, oh, my

God, Adam, bringing Zola back. Yep. That that

I love that because. It took me a minute to realize

like what they were looking for and You know

when I saw the file I kind of like okay, so maybe

Zola left Behind codes. I didn't think there

was another copy of his consciousness. I Thought

his consciousness copy was in New Jersey and

long destroyed at this point So to find that

it's there was another copy of his consciousness.

Oh And then Natasha finding out Clint's middle

name Mm -hmm, and you just like He's just like,

you know, it's about his me ma and you're just

like wow We are making sure people know that

he is an Iowan farm boy Where he was born and

raised before the circus So, yeah So yeah, it

get those little little tidbits of like seeing

connections to crimson dynamo or red guardian,

you know, seeing the connection to, you know,

clits past, you know, seeing the connection,

you know, the reflections of end game and, um,

you know, all of that just. It was really I mean,

first of all, this episode seemed a lot shorter

than normal, you know, because it moved so fast.

Like I'm sitting here at the end and I'm you

know, normally it's like you look down at your

watch and you're like, it's only been 20 minutes

and you feel like you're so you're packing so

much story in here. This episode is only 30 minutes

long and it felt like 10. Yeah, because it moved

so fast. The pacing on this was so good. It was

so well done. They went to, they basically hit

every spot they had to hit between the stuff,

you know, where Zola used to be, where you mentioned

the one copy was. And then when they went to

Russia and then when we did this, and then when

Ultron found out about the Watcher and he broke

through the glass ceiling. and so many worlds,

you know, all this and all that. And I can just

hear him now up there in the sky in a world where

Ultron won. And I missed Don LaFontaine. I missed

that man so much. But yeah, it was so, so good.

And it was. Yeah, you're right. It. It didn't

like. Because it kind of leaves you on a cliffhanger.

It doesn't have this whole... And like every

story to this point, we've had the watcher at

the end say something or give us some sort of

whatever. These last two episodes did not...

I mean, they kind of did it, but they kind of

didn't do it because they're heading into this

whole... three story arc between seven, eight

and nine of, you know, the end of this first

season. And it, I, I'm, I'm just going to say

it right now. This entire season is as good as

the first three phases of the MCU. I mean, it's

just on that same level. It's just what if it

happened to different people, like you mentioned.

there's fraction points in this and there's fracture

points and all of this and everything else. And

you find that crack and you figure out what story

you can tell in between what's what we know to

actually have happened. And that's what's so

cool about this series is that it lets you use

your imagination. Yep. Anything else or are we

done? I don't know. No, I mean, I'm still like

the robot arm. you know, and, you know, Clint's

aim is still on par, which is another thing that

also gives it that, you know, type that a good

amount of time has passed because he's had to

relearn how to use his bow and arrow. Because

not only has he had to learn how to get the connections

to to the hand to do what he needs it to do,

but it's a robot arm, which means that he needs

to learn now not to have the strength for it

but to not use too much strength because he will

break his bow and I mean that was like missile

fire arrow shooting he was doing at that point

and even though he's a quick shooter to begin

with I mean that robot arm has like at least

like made his shooting speed go up by one and

a half speed. So. Absolutely. Like, yeah, I'm

just talking about Clint this entire episode.

Nobody was surprised. I mean, come on, he was

the full he was one of the focuses. So how could

you not? No, I mean, I actually get to have it

have him as my main focus for once and not be

like, trying to worm him into like Superman and

Lois somehow. All the time. You know how Bailey

has it all comes back to Superman? Yeah. Well,

you can have it all comes back to Hawkeye and

you got to figure out how you can tie everything

in Superman and Lois back to Hawkeye. Well. I'm

sure there's definitely going to be a flow chart

of that, folks. Maybe if we get 20 iTunes reviews

I Don't even remember when the last one was I

think it was like 2011 or before that it might

have been 2018 I don't know that'll that'll be

it's that'll be a 20, you know a 20 thing for

for the Hawkeye mini mini podcast Yeah Absolutely.

All right, folks, I think that's gonna do it

for us. We're gonna take a quick break. You're

gonna hear some ads and some other stuff, and

we will be back to close the show after this.

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Alright folks, we are back here on Tooncast,

as it is all Hawkeye all the time apparently

around here. I guess you could say we're in the

middle of Clint's customs. So do you have anything

you would like to promote? I'm trying to think.

There are 26 episodes of the Superman and Lois

tapes, folks. You can go listen to all that fun

over there at the Fortress of Bailitude. Yeah,

I mean, that's a thing to promote. I mean, we

are working on designing our 10 Uh, episode,

our 10 episode mini series podcast. Uh, so you

want to be a Hawkeye. Yep. That's going to be

on, uh, the pull bag and studio 2009 since it's

live action. So that'll be a crossover with the

pull bag and like I said, Sue 2009. So, yep,

we're doing that. And I, I have been, uh, talking,

uh, both behind the scenes and pretty much very,

you know, blatantly on Twitter, to a couple of

different comic book Hawkeye writers, both Clint

and for Kate, to see if I can get some, you know,

special guests to help introduce the world of

both the Hawkeyes through comics before we start

seeing how the fraction verse in the comic for

Hawkeye merges into the MCU version of Hawkeye

post endgame. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, it's going

to be a very interesting and fun conversation.

And I am hoping that not only that but then that

my my my special My special guest people who

come will then also be able to promote all of

the stuff that I have read already that I love

that you all should be reading. Absolutely. We

are nothing but promotion machines over here

at the GeekCast Radio Network. You know what

I mean? As long as, you know, as long as I can

get whomever, let's just insert name here, Kelly

Thompson, to say something cool about whatever

show it is or whatever, you know, that's fine.

They can promote whatever they want to promote.

It's because we want to know about it and we

want our listeners to know about what our guests

are doing. So. All right, folks, we're going

to get the heck out of here. As always, we want

to thank you for joining us here on Tooncast.

If you'd like to get in contact with us. or leave

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where you can listen to and comment on all of

our content. Please leave us comments on the

website. Send any email to feedback at geekcastradio

.com. Steve usually forwards stuff to me so I'll

have to see if he can check that. I don't think

we've gotten any emails, but you never know.

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and tune cast beyond for the show I am at TF2

and Mike. What is your Twitter? It is at Ali

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Facebook page. We hope you enjoyed this episode

of Tooncast and wish you'll join us next time

when we will be giving you our spoiler -filled

thoughts on Season 1, Episode 9. of Marvel Studios

What If. For now, I am TFQ and Mike with Allison

Sky Richards. Thank you for listening. Until

next time. Oh yeah, and unleash the tune in you.

Yay. Yes, yes, every digital program, the one

that I have in mind is a little more analog.

Hey. Grab it. Grab it. No way. What? Let's just

say you're gonna feel like a real jerk for almost

quitting. Wait, stop it! Dad, you found it? That

was my box. An old Hydra base in Siberia. Zola.

What is that, an acronym? He's a man. Or at least

he was. And he is gonna help us wipe out Ultron.

They did it. They really did it. There's still

hope. I mean, nobody could have more of a punchable

face than Sam Lane. Well... Well it'll be interesting

to see, that's for sure. The boundaries of the

multiverse are irrelevant to beings like you

and me. I didn't evolve by staying inside the

light. It doesn't matter. From here I can see

everything. No one can stop me now. of options

that thing has left me no choice been there then

living the dream alone in a prison of my own

making ever since are you ready to break your

oath you want me to say it oh yeah oh yeah I

want to hear you say it okay I can't believe

I'm about to say this I see now I need I need

your help. Stuffing things and things and stuff.

That's right. Stop stuffing your things in my

stuff. Beyond good, beyond evil, beyond your

wildest imagination.