The Dark Knight Trilogy: From Begins to Rises

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the latest and greatest in movies with M -Wire.

Hello and welcome to the final film in the comic

book summer spotlight for M -Wire. I'm your host

Steve Mc... Venturing to Gotham City are do you

have to you and Mike we wrote that Mike booth

ninja 81 and Our dinner such a horrible opening

god damn it everybody no Before we get into the

pleasantries, we do need to get this next part

taken care of. So if you would take it away,

Mike. As Steve said before we get into this special

MWIRE episode, we are dedicating it to the victims

and families of the Aurora Colorado tragedy because

on Thursday night, July 19th, going into Friday

morning, July 20th, 2012. Tragedy struck Aurora,

Colorado when a gunman opened fire in a premiere

showing of the Dark Knight Rises. 12 people were

killed and many others wounded. We here at the

GCR have those affected in our hearts and before

we get into our thoughts on the Dark Knight Rises,

we will be observing a moment of silence for

those people that lost their lives to this senseless

violence. And thank you Mike for that. So what's

going on with everyone here? Who wants to go

first? What is the better question? I guess I'll

go first. I'm two days away from going to TFCon

Toronto. Yes. Very pumped to go see that. Visit

all the panels. The voice actors get to meet

some of the people that I've met throughout the

years in the Transformers fandom. I'll tie Scott

McDowell down to get him to agree to an interview.

Yeah, I'm gonna try. No guarantees, obviously,

because the guy is harder than hell to get a

hold of anyway. But yeah, I'm hoping that that's

doable. But yeah, in addition to that, watch

Dark Knight Rises again, so. Yes. For me, I've

just been podcasting away. We're currently starting

up production on season two of Tooncast Beyond,

and hopefully we can finish that up by October.

And bringing Toycast to an end and all that other

good stuff and getting MWIRE back on track with

the numbered episodes. So that's pretty much

what I've been up to. What about you, Dan? What

have you been up to? Not much just a lot of work.

This is my really busy season for work So I'm

working like 7 a .m. To 9 p .m. Every day the

weekend So I you know watch movies here then

when I can luckily I was able to catch up on

Batman begins in Dark Knight before we're seeing

Dark Knight Rises But just a lot of work and

a lot of not a lot of nothing else. So Hmm. What

about you Mike? What are you been up to? I have

been Trying you know working with with Danner

on preparing the second episode of XRG for you

guys. First episode, technically. Well, first

episode. Sorry. Been scrambling, scratching our

heads, trying to figure out something that we

can actually manage to cover. But we'll pull

something together at the last minute like we

always do. You should do a spotlight on Rare.

That doesn't seem to be a hot button issue at

all. What are you talking about? I actually figured

we've actually been kicking that idea around.

Yeah, if we can't pull something together real

quick, we'll probably just pull up in the Wikipedia

and talk about rare games. So at least at least

there will be something. Other than that, I was

also able to catch Dark Knight Rises twice. And

just before the podcast actually started, I Started

doing something I meant to do like a year or

so ago when I deleted every photo I had ever

taken for like six years. I accidentally deleted

off of my computer and I was able to recover

all of it. But it's all messed up. It's all like

in the wrong order and like multiple copies of

the same photo are spread across like eight different

file folders. So I just decided while I was waiting

for you guys, I was like, well, I'll just click

through this mess, see if I can wade through

it. And boy, is it ever a mess. Just be glad

those are not actual photographs and they are

digital. Yeah. Well, if they're actual photographs,

I couldn't have deleted them. But the fact that

they're digital, I'm wondering if there's a way

that I can have the computer figure out which

photos are the same. I actually think the photo

app that I use can tell which pictures are duplicates

and get rid of them for me, but we'll find out.

Awesome. And for those of you who may not have

listened to Extreme Retro Gaming, Danner, introduce

yourself to the MYR listeners. Hello, MYR listeners.

I'm Art Danner. I'm with Extreme Retro Gaming

and also with The Lunchroom, which nobody hears

listen to. So, yeah. Look forward to getting

to know the viewers more the viewers. I don't

think people listeners Yeah, I don't know what

the way you got planned the people with the earpieces.

Yeah We've got planned. You may have we may have

some viewers. So yes, we will be shooting We

will be shooting video on Monday. We'll see how

that goes but regardless I Basically what I've

been doing is I've actually been getting some

research done and actually planning the episode

for Monday Which I know probably blows Mike's

mind, but I actually have an idea and actually

have research done and have a script together,

but That's besides the fact. We'll probably throw

it out at the last minute and just fly by the

seat of our pants. Well, that's what the lunchroom

used to do. Yeah, I was going to say. I was trying

to be more professional. Hell, we've been at

this for almost three, four years now. We threw

professionalism out the window years ago. Well,

you're still slightly more professional than

what we are. That was always the division of

labor, though. You do the research. I'll take

care of everything else. I feel like I'm the

butler here. Hey, Joe should be helping you.

I'm the Alfred to your Batman. I see how it is

But basically this week I've just been Watching

extremely terrible movies. Well, not as terrible

as it originally thought I actually sat down

with some friends to watch John Carter this week

which was Not nearly the waste of time. I thought

it was gonna be And then I followed it up by

trying to watch Ghost Rider Spirit of Vengeance,

and I stressed the trying to watch portion of

that, because I made it 20 minutes in and I was

done. It actually gets better. I highly doubt

it. I didn't think anything was possible to actually

make the first Ghost Rider movie look good, but

I don't know. The whole... Well, Electra makes

any comic book movie look good, so... All right,

so before we get started with talking about the

the two first bat films in the Nolan verse I

actually just remembered this one of our fans

on Facebook left us a message Isaac Espin son

I don't know, I butcher names all the time. He

says, hello, I'm a big fan of the GCN podcast.

Thank you for the hard work for making this a

stellar podcast. Now, your interview with Kevin

Conroy, Batman the Animated Series, was phenomenal

and funny. One of my favorite podcasts after

the Tunecast series of podcasts is from the Command

Center, which is our Power Rangers show. He also

says, overall, your approach is professional,

smart, for not only geeks, but newbies to this

network, and we'll hope you guys will read this

message for my birthday on July 20th. Well, of

course, happy belated birthday, since we are

releasing this on July 27th. If not, any podcast

will suffice. Thank you guys. You have my support.

Hope for the best. So thank you to Isaac for

that, and... I think we're gonna go to the other,

the first two Nolan bad films and we'll be back

after these clips. Your parents death was not

your fault. It was your father's. Never start

with the head. The victim gets all fuzzy. You

can't feel the neck. And of course we're back

with our discussion on Mware of The Dark Knight

Rises, and you can't really talk about that without

talking about the two films that relaunched the

franchise, being Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

Exactly. I never, I honestly don't think I paid

any attention when Begins came out. Didn't pay

any attention until it hit DVD I honestly don't

know why I couldn't tell you why I just Back

then I just wasn't even that interested in it

at all and it hit DVD and I saw it and I thought

it was great I thought it was a great way to

reboot the franchise, especially after the shitty

Batman and Robin Overall I like the movie but

since Watching it in 2005 2006. I had not seen

it since it aired on FX this past week before

The Dark Knight Rises was released and going

back and watching that film. There's a lot I

forgot about I Completely forgot that they set

up the Dark Knight at the end of begins I totally

missed that and what else did I not remember?

I completely forgot about Katie Holmes' lackluster

performance. It wasn't any better with the second

actress in the second film. It was slightly better.

Maggie Gyllenhaal was good. Yes. That character

is something that they created for that series.

I looked it up. Rachel Dawes is nowhere near

anywhere in the other parts of the Batman franchise.

That was something they put in there. Well, and

Decker Kane was also made up for Tim Burton's

Batman, so... Deckard Kane is a character in

the Diablo games. Well, who's that? Oh, sorry.

Eckhart. Eckhart, yeah. Well, yeah, but Eckhart

made sense. No, no, no, no, no, not Eckhart.

The guy that they thought Liam Neeson was. Yeah.

The card? Yeah, the card. Yeah. Yeah. He was

a character that was originally supposed to be

in Tim Burton's Batman, but was dropped from

the movie, but they put him in the comic. Okay,

but see, here's the thing. In the context of

Batman Begins, I can see... Ra's Al Ghul. Not

Ra's, Ra's Al Ghul. I can see him pretending

to be somebody else. I can believe that. In a

movie. My point is that the movies have made

up characters. Characters have come from the

movie and gone into comics. Right. So they've

actually become canon because of... Yeah, that's

true. That is true. But up to that point... When

the love interest, supposedly love interest,

was announced, as Rachel does, everybody that

I knew was just kind of like scratching their

heads like, who the fuck is this bitch? It's

called plotline. It's called story plot. I'm

glad the plotline led to her getting blown up.

Well, they had to have a reason for Batman to

get pissed, but... Steve, what did you think

of Begins? Begins, actually, I never saw it when

it first came out. It didn't even hit on my register

just because, I mean, at the time I was dirt

broke. I was more so worried about where I was

going to live than actually seeing movies. So

I didn't actually pick it up and watch it until

it was way on DVD. Probably, actually, right

around the time The Dark Knight was coming out

in theater was when I actually watched it. And

yeah, and I liked the film. There's aspects of

it that I don't particularly care for. Well,

I do like the comic references. I'm not a big

fan of Scarecrow. I do like the job that Cillian

Murphy did on the character. But and of course,

I liked Ra's al Ghul in it. There were things

that made it much better than the. previous four

films like actually showing Batman starting out

and up to the point of yeah, you know the Dark

Knight, but I Do like the movie but I also Yeah,

I think each one of the series gets progressively

better What about you Dan? What did you think

of begins? Well, I'm like you I actually I saw

in theaters. I was pretty hyped up for it when

it first came out I was kind of After the catastrophe

that was Batman and Robin, I was ready for another

Batman movie that took the character seriously.

And going back and rewatching it again recently,

I kind of grew in respect for that movie because

it sets up a lot for The Dark Knight and for

The Dark Knight Rises. Some of the most important

things I think it does is it gives Bruce Wayne

a really reason to be Batman beyond the fact

of simple revenge. It shows the importance of

theatrics and how that can aid you in your mission

like how his training with the League of Shadows

and how being a symbol is always better than

just being a man and that allowed Batman to exist

in a real -world setting and I think without

that I don't think you have the Dark Knight working

nearly as well as it did. It also set up a lot

of themes that you see Batman and Batman Begins

that Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises, you know

fear is a huge theme in these films It's probably

the most prevalent in Batman Begins But you see

it again and Dark Knight Rises because of all

the films they seem the most connected Yeah To

what I liked about it like fear plays a huge

part in the creation of Batman how Bruce Wayne

as a kid his fear led him to leave that theater

that fear led that leaving the theater but through

his parents being killed. So there was a sense

of ownership that he had to his parents death,

because in a way his fear caused them to get

killed, maybe not directly, but indirectly. And

I think that's more impactful and a lot more

personal than having like the Joker be the person

who killed his parents in like, you know, Batman

1989. So I think it did a lot for that character.

And I don't think it really gets the appreciation

it deserves for setting up the universe. I think

the first half's a lot stronger than the second

half, because then it kind of just becomes a

comic book movie. But it's still good, but it's

not as far reaching as the first half. But I

definitely have grown an appreciation of that

movie, as I think it's aged really well. Before

Mike or Dan are gone, I want to kind of respond

to that, because this was the first film live

action. that they actually said that it was Joe

Chill. And I think the reason for that is, as

you just said, no one wanted to ground it in

reality. He wanted to go by as much of the origin

that was, you know, proper as possible. In contrast,

in Tim Burton's 89 film, nobody in 1989, none

of us now, comic book geeks that are comic book

geeks or movie geeks or whatever, none of us

knew back then. Who the hell Joe chill was if

we did it was because we read it in the comic

briefly so using Jack Napier slash the Joker

in the 89 Batman film made a little bit more

sense and they didn't the way they treated it

and that is You know, it was it what they never

actually said it was him It was this kid Jimmy

and it was mimicking Bruce Wayne's parents death

Yeah, and basically the like that's how to jump

in but how they're supposed to you know Joker

made Batman and Batman made Joker because he's

already dumped him and yeah, and I think that

works for bad I'm not saying I just like that

and yeah 89 Batman, but I just feel I kind of

Liked it like the take no one did with it. Yeah.

Yeah the take no one did was so true to the comics

What about you Mike? What did you? When did you

first see begins and what did you think briefly

of it? Well Batman begins actually I've been

trying to think about this for like a couple

weeks now leading up to this, Batman Begins actually

showed up on my radar in 2003, which is really

weird because I went back through and I was reading,

I had a live journal back in 2003 and I was reporting

movie news on it to my friends. And I remember

when Warner Brothers first released the high

res pictures of the Tumblr and I posted them,

my friends went ape shit, crying foul and that

Batman would never drive such a vehicle. And

I had to remind them that in Frank Miller's Batman

he drove a tank And it I had to actually coax

them around the idea that you know Batman necessarily

in the real world would not drive a sports car

He would drive something a little more utilitarian

So that was actually my first you know that was

seeing the pictures of the Tumbler, and I like

them immediately. I like the look of the Tumbler.

I like the fact that they never actually called

it the Batmobile. I appreciated that very much.

And I followed it up until the movie had opened,

and I saw it opening day. But the one thing I

actually found kind of surprising, given how

the internet usually spoils everything. Going

into that movie, the Liam Neeson twist was not

spoiled for me. I know there were theories of

people who were talking about how Ken Watanabe

is the wrong actor to play Ra's al Ghul. There

were lots of theories, but I was just like, no,

he's just going to play it. It's his own thing.

He's just going to do it the way he's going to

do it. So the nice pleasant twist and when everyone

goes, Oh my God, he did it the right way and

he did justice by us. But that didn't really

bother me. I did revisit the movie earlier this

week and I have to say Gotham really disappoints

me in Batman Begins. Know Congratulations, you've

reached my first gripe. Yeah. Well that that

same great can be had for Dark Knight Rises,

too So I'm gonna say I like I appreciated the

Gotham City and Batman Begins more than I appreciated

in the other two films Well, okay, I guess my

issue comes from the fact that they didn't stay

with it. It's kind of like the transition from

In the Harry Potter films from like the first

two the first two movies to the third one It's

just it's a drastic change in the setting in

the way things look from Harry Potter one and

two to the third one. And from the third one,

they kept the same theme throughout the rest

of the movie. So the first two now, in my opinion,

are awful. I can't watch them. And that kind

of happened with with the Dark Knight trilogy,

where I can watch that and begins. But because

Gotham was not consistent through all three movies,

you know, two out of three have the same vision.

The first one now just looks out of place and

very comic booky compared to the rest of the

vibe that Nolan was going for I kind of felt

I feel like Gotham looked the way it did because

Warner Brothers wasn't sure about giving this

guy a lot of money Yeah, I think I could be wrong

Wasn't the first wasn't bad begins made for like

us and like a hundred million dollars or 150

million I was made cheap. It was made the production

was 150 million Yeah, that's that's fairly cheap

compared to the the rest of them, but I I like

that I like Batman begins I did and I still do

and I like the real -world look he went with

it and some of the documentary stuff About how

he sent his prop department out for to look for

actual tech that was plausible either like then

or like in the not too distant future To the

point where history the history channel actually

did a modern marvels on it. Yeah and Something

else I appreciated his use of practical effects

a Lot I like he used CG very minimal very minimally

And even some of the scenes that I thought were

Were CG it turns out were only enhanced by CG,

but the major portion of this of these scenes

were done with practical effects. I just feel

let down by Gotham City because the vibe for

it is completely different from the other two.

Dan, are your thoughts on Batman Begins? I really

like Batman Begins. I probably heard about it

about as early as Mike did when I first saw the

pictures of the Tumblr come out. I was a little

concerned when I first saw the pictures but I

wasn't willing to dismiss it on something like

that right away. When the movie was coming out

I was managing in a movie theater at the time

so I was you know seeing everything as it was

coming in as far as trailers and like as soon

as the new trailer came out we'd all gather in

the theater and sit down and watch it right away.

And then I know the week that it came out in

theaters I was actually on a family trip in Mexico

and I said there was no way in hell I wasn't

going to see this opening day so I actually went

to a Mexican movie theater and ended up seeing

it with Spanish subtitles and braved it that

way and I loved the film. I thought it was incredibly

good and it was nice to see some respect brought

back to the Batman series just because I felt

a lot of the integrity that it had was pretty

much destroyed with Batman and Robin. Because

I honestly don't see one single thing that was

redeemable about Batman and Robin at all. The

only thing that's redeemable for me is Alicia

Silverstone in the bat suit. That's it. No. No.

I can't even... No. I just... I want to forget

that 90 minute gay joke that was Batman and Robin.

Yeah, must mustn't forget the bat nipples Oh

Yeah, it's a thorn in your sign, okay, so So

with that we'll move on to the dark night I Don't

know I'm gonna let Steve go first in this but

I'm gonna say one thing before he goes is that

I had only seen Heath Ledger in 10 Things I Hate

About You before this. I had seen a couple of...

Well, that and A Night's Tale on the Patriot.

Those are the three films I had seen him in.

Those are the only three films I had seen him

in. So I knew kind of what acting chops he had.

And I know a lot of people that I talked to at

the time when the news came out that he was going

to be the Joker just kind of tilted their head

and were like, what? But since... you know his

performance and sadly he is no longer with us

um his performance is it's gonna be hard to top

it now it just is uh steve what are your thoughts

on the dark knight um yeah dark knight stupid

i know it's difficult because it's the same name

with an added word yeah um but i i really like

the film uh heath ledger i was only familiar

with from like brothers graham and the patriot

so that That that was how I knew of him, but

I wasn't sure how he was gonna play out as the

Joker Until I physically saw the posters of coming

soon and I was like, holy crap that rules and

I really like how that whole movie played out.

I Am pretty sure I I'm pretty sure I saw that

in theater. I'm not a hundred percent I can't

remember but I did twice. I'm pretty sure I did

see it that film, it knocked it up another notch.

I mean, not only do you have the iconic Joker

against the Batman, you know, screwed with his

head, of course, but you also have a bunch of

action, just all kinds of craziness going on.

You got Two -Face in there, you got Batman using

all these other neat gadgets that you wouldn't

normally see him using. Yeah, so I mean that

film for me took it up another notch and I still

love watching like all the chase scenes of it

and then of course the very end with the the

sonar and all that stuff, so it's definitely

a nice Re retelling of the Joker's origins and

styles in that and The only thing I wasn't too

keen on was the fact that you had emo Batman

to an extent. Eh, kind of. For me, I was absolutely

blown away by the movie. Not to say that Nicholson's

Joker is bad. It isn't. It's very well done for

what Batman 89 is. But we finally get a Joker

with the actual sort of, you know, all of his

different origins mixed into one. We get a Joker

that is just so sick and twisted it just jumps

off the screen. We get a Harvey Dent slash Two

-Face that isn't Lando Calrissian or Agent K.

So that's that's good there What I found in rewatching

this and it might just be my copy and iTunes

but The film quality itself and again, it might

just be my copy and iTunes. I don't know when

I rewatch the movie Is it just me or is this

movie at points really really friggin quiet and

then all of a sudden really loud? It's when the

IMAX parts are going I know the the IMAX when

the you go in the IMAX scenes the sound tends

to be a little more crisp Yeah, um that I've

noticed I'm talking straight volume. They're

like the whole beginning of the movie until one

of those first first Joker criminals talks. It's

really quiet. I Don't remember ever being really

quiet. I remember being incredibly loud it yeah,

it's uh, it may be the way that you're that the

the digital copy is mixed because it's The Blu

-ray is almost identical to what it was in the

theater. Yeah, it could be that. I absolutely

love the movie. I think it was great. All the

different stuff, all the different references

and homages. My only one gripe between Batman

Begins and Dark Knight is... I don't wear hockey

pads Yeah, they they made Christian Bale swallow

a mouthful of gravel for the Batman voice and

I did not like that whatsoever You could barely

hear what he was saying at all So that that that

is my one gripe about Dark Knight. What about

you Dan? What did you think of Dark Knight? Well,

I remember when it came out it came it was you

know summer of 08 and that was the big summer

of Iron Man and coming off of the you know the

experience that was knowing the adventures was

gonna happen and like And then now Dark Knight

and how is that going to leave up to the hype?

And I know there was a lot of apprehension regarding

Heath Ledger, just Joker. People were kind of

wondering, does he fit the role? I wasn't sure,

but I saw, you know, his performance and like

Brokeback Mountain. I thought he was really well

done in that. So I figured he had some potential.

And I think no one's good at casting. Characters

for the right wall. So I wasn't too worried and

then seeing the first teaser trailer when you

just heard the Joker's laugh You kind of like

okay, he's got it just by the he has the laugh

and I think once you get that I think then you

can you know, put the character that is the best

teaser trailer I've seen in a long time. Yeah,

sometimes less is more and then I think that's

the perfect example But yeah, I love the Dark

Knight it's unoriginal say but I think it's the

best comic book movie ever made and it's Calling

a comic book movie I think is not doing it justice

because it's really a crime film that has Batman

in it I know a lot of people think it's too long,

but I don't mind long movies. I think long movies

can allow a lot of great story, and there's a

lot of great story in The Dark Knight. I love

Heath Ledger's Joker, but I think Aaron Eckhart

as Two -Face and Harry Redent is also a fantastic

performance that gets overlooked. I know people

hate Christian Bale's voice, you know, and what

he does with it, but I don't mind it that much.

I think people, it's kind of an easy thing to

be fun of. It's an easy thing to kind of poke

fun at and do impressions of. But in the end,

I mean, it's kind of... It's kind of what are

you gonna do with it? Like can you so it's it's

not that big of a deal to me But I think what

also Dark Knight showed for the first I think

it's the first movie ever saw an IMAX and Christopher

Nolan kind of knows how to use those cameras

and I think to this point he's probably the best

at using the IMAX camera to enhance the movie

going experience like the the oh, you know, that's

that scene with the Truck flipping, you know

over maybe you know based off physics that shouldn't

happen, but it looks pretty sweet so But yeah,

that's it's a great film, and I think it's it's

one of the greatest I have a question the well

The truck flipping over. I mean they actually

did that But it was yeah It was launched off

a catapult, but they did flip it in downtown,

Chicago Yeah, I know it really happened when

I meant like I don't know if two wires in a truck

is gonna stop It's gonna flip it over look like

that. I think it's probably just gonna whip the

wires out of the street, but that's a that doesn't

He's saying that practically if someone tried

to do that without a catapult The physics may

not work out the way that they did exactly exactly

I'm completely okay with because it's it's just

an awesome moment. So who cares really? I think,

and this is before Mike goes, I'll say this.

I think that Hollywood needs to drop 3D and embrace

IMAX. It's expensive. I know it's expensive.

But it's so much better in IMAX than in 3D. Yes,

some of the movies that I've seen in 3D have

done it very well. I'm still not a fan of 3D.

I still would prefer that it was just either

IMAX or just regular 2D. I don't like having

not only the... Idea of the price hike, but I

don't like having something on my face When it's

not necessary All right, Mike, what did you think

of the Dark Knight? I was more I didn't think

it would be possible after Batman Begins So I

was actually more excited for the for the Dark

Knight than I was for Batman Begins when it was

released I Batman Begins actually introduced

me to Christopher Nolan after that. I tracked

down some of his other his other works and in

between Batman Begins and Dark Knight he did

the prestige and I really enjoyed that a lot.

Such a great film. So when he when they got around

to like and I knew who Heath Ledger was from

you know all the movies that Mike mentioned and

like Lords of Dogtown and and some other things

like that. And I've never had an issue with him.

I actually always enjoyed him. So kind of like

the same thing when they showed off the pictures

of the Tumblr and everyone was throwing a fit

about that. And, you know, they're throwing a

fit about Heath Ledger. I was just kind of took

this whole attitude of I'm I'm going to trust

Nolan on this one. And his performance was. Again,

it wasn't just a straight Joker performance,

it was a truly psychotic high and low moment

performance because you have him talking normally

and really creepily and then you have him getting

louder at times where he'll you know why so serious

and he'll get loud like that and then he'll go

back to his normal voice and I absolutely love

that the way that he did that I I just think

I think that one of the reasons he was cast is

because nobody would know what to expect because

he had never done a role like that And so it

was easy. No one had any expectations of him.

Any role can go 50 -50. It's either going to

be totally awesome or it's going to totally blow,

but Nolan knew what he could do, but nobody else

knew what. Heath was capable of bringing to the

role so I when it when it actually showed up

on screen Especially with that first teaser trailer

that damn brought up where was just the black

screen and the jets of light cutting out the

Batman logo on the screen with with Joker's overlay

that that like made me nervous sitting in the

theater watching that trailer It was generally

creepy and I had this like overwhelming. It's

like kind of like a nerdgasm And when the movie

was released, the IMAX scenes were spectacular.

And at that time, the theater that I work at

still had film. And I remember when we were talking

a couple weeks ago on MWIRE, we were talking

about the experiences that 3D can offer. And

studios seem to be pulling the punches on. So

you're not experiencing anything new when they're

perfectly capable of doing that. The opening

scene of Dark Knight in IMAX when they're rappelling

across the street and the camera goes and points

to the ground, that induced the same sense of

vertigo that the falling scene in Men in Black

3 did in the trailer. And it's great. This is

kind of like where my one... My one nitpick for

this movie is, well, two, I didn't care for the

sonar thing at the end. In fact, I find that

very hard to watch, even at home. For me, it's

just sensory overload. And I'm just kind of like,

why can't you just, it's like, could you not

shoot this on film and show us what's happening?

Did you have to do it all on the computer just

because you did? I didn't care for, and I still

don't care for the Batpod. I thought it was...

The Batpod is... Because essentially the Batmobile

was damaged beyond repair at that point in the

middle of a battle. And then you have the Batpod.

I think my only problem with the Batpod is that

his cape essentially drags on the ground when

he's not going at high speeds. Technically it

should get sucked underneath the tire. Yeah,

it should. the realism of the bad pod makes no

sense whatsoever except it works it does you

know the i like the way it looks but i mean it

was something new and different and just like

in rises when we get to that in a bit uh you

know rises had something new and different that

people might not like well my i mean my issue

with it wasn't so like it's they didn't um it

had no background in anything it's kind of like

it was already built it was built into the tumblr

but yet when the accountant brings the blueprints

to lucius fox there's like no like if they just

put like a mention of it like in the blueprint

like yeah this is this is it you know when he's

like you're gonna threaten you know a guy that

beats people up if there had just been like a

hint of the batpod like a architectural structure

just a subtle nod to it previously existing i

would have bought it a lot more I think at that

point where I can buy it because it is Bruce

Wayne. It is Batman He will plan for contingencies

And then there's just one move that it does where

it slides sideways that just drives me up the

wall I like it, but it's it is yeah. I like it

I think it looks really cool and it makes a really

cool noise when it does that but I'm just kind

of like I see it, and I scratch my head, and

then the movie keeps going, and I'm like, oh

right, let's go. It sounds like a flat tire.

Well, the winding down, too, of the gyroscope

sounds really cool, too. What about you, Dan,

or what did you like about the Dark Knight? There's

a whole lot going on in that movie that I just

I love about that movie. It's just it's wonderfully

acted. It's a beautiful script is very well written.

It's pretty it's pretty tight. As far as all

of the movies go, I feel it's the the most solid

out of the three. But the one thing that I just

love about the movie is how well the score works

with that movie and helps to build that sense

of urgency and that sense of tension throughout

that entire Film and that was probably the one

thing that I really For me a lot of times what

a movie really comes together is when the the

music and the score just to work So hand -in

-hand with the storytelling and the same way

especially with films like this Oh, yeah, and

I just did though these the way that they went

through and they did the stretching of the piano

wires for the Joker's theme and just underlined

that tension that that character brought to every

single scene that he was in just to increase

the tension and make you have that uneasy feeling

whenever he's in that movie. And I never had

any reservations about Heath Ledger playing the

Joker and I was completely sold the moment he

goes, let me show you a magic trick. That was

that was it that was like I'm like this is amazing

I'm like I can't wait for this ride and that

was hilarious Yeah, and it's I mean, I just I

almost fell out of my seat cuz I was like, oh

damn that was amazing I knew as soon as he as

soon as he said that and as soon as he brought

the pencil I knew exactly what was gonna happen.

That's actually my favorite scene in the entire

movie Alright, so I think that's I mean we've

pretty much covered the first two films. Do we

want to go on to the trailer Steve? Yes, let's

go into the trailer and we'll be back with our

initial More so basic information on the Dark

Knight Rises There's a storm coming You sound

like you're looking forward to it. I'm adaptable.

What are you? I'm Gotham's reckoning. Why didn't

you just kill me? Your punishment must be more

severe. Do you think he's coming back? I don't

know. How'd you run, Dane? You should be as afraid

of him as I am. I won't bury you. I've heard

enough members of the Wine family. Do them everything.

Not everything. Not yet. My mother warned me

about getting into cars with strange men. This

isn't a car. Okay, and we're back with the M

-Wire special on The Dark Knight Rises. Finally

getting to this film. After that lengthy discussion,

which was needed. Take it away with the details,

Mike. Alright, we've got The Dark Knight Rises,

which is a 164 minute action adventure crime

film. uh... released on july twentieth twenty

twelve in the united states the general plot

is eight years on a new terrorist leader bain

overwhelms gopham's finest in the dark night

resurfaces to protect the city that has branded

him an enemy obviously directed by christopher

nolan the writers are jonathan nolan uh... christopher

nolan and uh... other people as well stars christian

bale michael cain gary oldman uh... and hathaway

tom hardy oh god who's the chick that i can't

even pronounce her name the chick that plays

miranda tate or whatever the hell her name is

obviously uh margaret freeman is back as lucius

um very very awesome cast i i don't know how

the campaign like okay we talked about we didn't

really talk about the campaign for dark knight

but we kind of mentioned it the whole campaign

for dark knight was centered around the jokers

why so serious and it was also centered around

uh I believe in Harvey Dent. Probably the best

viral campaign I've ever seen for a movie. Yes,

exactly. And this one, the marketing campaign

for this was The Legend Ends July 20th. Because

as we all know, this is Nolan's final bad film,

and eventually, a number of years down the road

from now, they will reboot it and do something

else with it and give it to somebody else. all

the trailers. I absolutely love seeing all the

different trailers. I loved being in the movie.

I loved how the movie and you know I think it

was either it might have been you Mike or it

might have been Dana that pointed this out but

between this film and begins they both have similar

beginnings because that whole first part of the

film with Bane It's like a completely shortened

version of Bruce Wayne's training Like if you

took Bruce Wayne's training from begins and put

it in like a five to ten minute span That's what

the Bane scene was at the beginning for me I

know a lot of people are saying out there on

the internet that oh, well this movie is too

long But it doesn't feel too long and I honestly

didn't even realize how long it was until after

I left the theater at all because it just it

flows so well and it just goes beat by beat by

beat, and it moves so well. The pacing on it

was so well done, and Nolan knows how to pace

a film. I like how they never mention that Selena

Kyle is Catwoman. She's in a Catwoman outfit,

kind of, but they never actually mention it,

that she is Catwoman. It says in the papers that

there is a cat burglar, but that's pretty much

all you get, and I like how she is essentially

relegated to being Batman sidekick eventually

Versus you know Hurst being in the starring role

and you know giving some weird twists to her

story I really like that Tom Hardy is Bane. I

like that I'm glad they you know had him spit

the gravel out of his voice in the audio editing

That was never He actually never sounded like

that all they did was pull his voice track out

over top of everything which I think ruined it

And in this one, I have to say they made Bale

spit out that other piece of gravel. I mean,

he does still have a bit of the gravel from the

Dark Knight, but it's not as bad. I can actually

understand what the hell he was saying in this

movie as Batman. I like that. I enjoyed the movie

overall, but I was telling Steve Offair in a

separate conversation from you guys that This

is probably a film because it ends the legend

of what Nolan's films are. This is probably a

film I can watch once a year. Just because for

me, it was just so emotional. No, it's not because

it's bad. I'm not saying it because it's bad.

I'm saying because at the end of this film, I

felt physically hurt from watching it. It's so

damn good that it essentially almost gave me

a heart attack. What? Just shut up and go with

it. You know it was just one of those things

where it was so damn good the the the twists

were so well planned out I love it, but at the

same time. I can't watch this on a repeat course

hell I like like I said it's been Six years since

I had seen begins, and I have dark night in iTunes,

and I watched that maybe I think the last time

I watched our night was maybe in beginning of

2010 so But I absolutely love the film what about

you Steve For me well besides seeing random places

all over the internet of people that had seen

Press screeners of it you Canadian bastards No,

I wasn't even that I know all over on on different

review sites people for whatever reason we're

comparing this damn movie to inception To which

I had to know Because I was reading bits and

pieces about you know, spoiler information. And

so I asked Mike what the hell actually happens

at the end. So I kind of knew going into the

movie what was going in. But even watching the

movie, it was still a very emotional ride, but

it was also it grabbed me enough that I even

forgot what was happening at the end by the time

the end happened. So I loved the the different

plot twists there were some inconsistencies which

I'll get into later in the pros and cons and

and of course the other linked references but

This I loved the whole all the different intertwining

plot lines that that played into this story it

just it worked and for that reason alone I really

really enjoy this movie I would say that it's

my favorite movie of the year easily but um yeah

it's even with my minor nitpicks it's still my

favorite film what about you Dan what are your

initial opinions on Dark Knight Rises My initial

opinion was that I loved it. I thought it was

fantastic. It's a very ambitious film The plot

is very thick and I think it unfortunately I

didn't get to watch it a second time I do think

it would benefit from a second watch just because

of the amount of plot this movie has I don't

think it's perfect film. I think there are some

issues with it, but the issues that are there

I was able to forgive I didn't think they were

too glaring at all take away from my experience

watching it I think Lot of the new elements were

fantastic No one has ability to kind of bring

a character on board to a film and let you kind

of fall in love with them immediately That happened

with Anne Atheway as Catwoman in as Jordan Gordon

as Joseph Gordon -Levitt with John Blake like

the the scene with him and Bruce Wayne as he

describing how he knows Bruce Wayne is Batman

I thought that was one of the best scenes in

the film. It's a simple scene It's a scene that

could have been a heavily melodramatic, but it

the way Levitt performed it was deadpan and very

callous, and it made it even more emotional to

me. So I thought it was fantastic, like I mentioned.

There's a lot to it. I understand what you were

saying, Mike, regarding saying it's not a movie

you'd really want to go out and watch every week

or something like that, because it's very emotionally

draining. It has highest highs and lowest of

lows, because it really it really goes in some

dark places. And Nolan really pushes that PG

-13 rating. Oh, yes, he did. But like I meant,

I loved it. I think it's a fitting end to this

trilogy. It's a bittersweet end. But yeah, so.

What about you, Mike? What are your initial thoughts

on it? Well, actually, I'm going to let Daner

go first. OK. Oh, no. Oh, boy. Here we go. Here

we go. He wants to comment, that's why. I enjoyed

it. I enjoyed the movie. I'm going to start off

with the fact I enjoyed the movie and I liked

the movie. I did not feel it was not my favorite

in the series. In fact, it was my least favorite

in the series. What are you smoking? Well, here's

my analogy. I love the Back to the Future movies.

But the third movie is still the weakest in the

series. I still love all the movies in the series.

Wait a second, wait a second, hold the fucking

phone here. You cannot, as much as I like Back

to the Future 3, you cannot compare The Dark

Knight Rises to Back to the Future 3. I'm comparing

it in the fact that it's three chapters in one

solid story. He's comparing a trilogy like I

did on Twitter. I'm comparing the trilogy. Together.

I'm not comparing... Back to the future in Batman

by any regards because I was gonna say no no

no oh god no I'm not that crazy jumping through

the internet trying to strangle you you're gonna

do that there's Things I really like about the

movie Joseph Gordon -levitt story arc I felt

was the most complete and better of the story

arcs in the entire movie And I love the casting

and I love the actors But there's some things

that happened in the movie that just kind of

pulled it out. Much like Dan said, I think I

would have benefited from seeing it a second

time. But I definitely have my reservations about

quite a few things. There's some stuff that I,

in my opinion, should have been handled slightly

differently. And there's some stuff that the

captain of the police i have no over is that

i don't understand why he was in the even in

the movie that seemed like we see sure or no

no no he's talking about the guy that ended up

dead later if you would be scared all of them

as it was useless yeah the second especially

when they get into the no man's land section

of the movie where they his whole art in india

from there i got them in the beginning of the

movie did show his arrogance and inexperience

with dealing with Batman. But the second half

of his story, I was like, I don't care. I don't

know why this guy's here. I'd rather see Batman

whooping some ass. And it also felt like the

least action -packed of all three of the movies.

It didn't seem to have quite as compelling of

action sequences. And then there's also some

of the dialogue was just kind of... Hokie and

especially when they were talking about the device

The the device that erases all of your past stuff

and it just seemed like We get it. It's a device.

You don't really got hit the fact like three

times in a row that there's a device Yeah, this

device you mean that device. Yeah, it's like

stop saying device guys. It's really obnoxious

I think the reason for that is because there

were four people talking about it. There was

the The dagget there was Selena Kyle there's

Bruce Wayne and there's Batman program and in

that important of something give it a name Don't

call it. Don't give it some well. They do it

was the Crap what the hell was named the damn

thing It was so memorable that you I didn't I

didn't see I didn't even pick up on that because

I just took it as it's four different people

talking about it even though two people are one

person It may be four different people talking

about it, but if it seems to be... It was codenamed

Clean Slate. Yeah, and it just seemed... I mean,

it was the driving piece that was driving Anne

Hathaway's character. I get that. That was, you

know, that was her end goal, was that right there.

And the... I just also felt that with Alfred

reminiscing in the beginning... it tipped its

hat too early of how the movie was gonna end.

And that kind of bothered me. That's just, I

mean, it's like a little, and it's one of those

things that I even feel, I feel bad complaining

about things about the movie because I did enjoy

it. And a lot of the stuff feels kind of nitpicky

to me, but these were honestly, I walked out

of the movie not knowing how I felt about it.

And that's not. With dark with our dark night.

I had there was no question in my mind how I

felt about that movie when I walked out of it

with rises I was just like I enjoyed it, but

there was certain things that were just bothering

me But I will also admit that going into it I

was I was kind of shook up about the whole movie

theater shooting and that kind of took me out

of the Frame of mind for it having worked For

movie theaters along as I did and especially

having worked for a movie theater that was in

that same chain of movie theaters Yeah, kind

of took it out of me and I will admit I probably

wasn't in the greatest frame of mind to be going

to see the movie when I was there but with that

said I'm pleading temporary insanity Mike so

Mike your rebuttal Not so much a rebuttal I Like

the movie it's my favorite of the three but only

because of what came before it as a movie by

itself I'd have some issues with it, but I kind

of was taking the entire trilogy as a whole It

was you know, it's it's only good because of

what was laid down in Batman begins and the Dark

Knight so in it Having having been able to see

the movie twice. There were a couple issues I

had with the with in my first viewing That kind

of you know would have added to the runtime of

the movie if they had fixed it But as it is I

Am I second viewing I didn't have any of the

same issues while I did still have the same issue

One of the issues was the bat pod that I brought

up earlier because they did it they did that

same move like times five in this movie and every

single time I was like Probably somebody some

sound editor going I just really like making

the sounds we should do that a lot. Yeah Now

the move you're talking about is when it screeches

to a halt and goes side to side Yeah, it goes

sideways and it rolls over the guns and you don't

see any sparks or anything, right? I just again

subtle little details. I could have bought it

Well, that's simple. They sprayed it with an

anti -sparking paint that got nothing. You mean

bat spray paint? Bat spray paint, much like the

bat atomic bomb repellent. Or the bat shark repellent.

There were no sharks in the making of this movie.

Not that you know of. When I watched it the first

time, so much happens in the movie. the group

of people that I was watching it with the first

time we were just kind of sitting there and it

got to a slow point and I took my phone out of

my pocket just to see what time it was I leaned

over to my buddy and I said we're only an hour

into the movie and he was like holy shit and

the second time was towards was like kind of

like when it was ramping up to the climax and

he leaned over to me and he goes does this seem

like things are moving really fast right now.

Like they're just cramming a whole bunch of stuff

in here. And I took my phone out of my pocket

again and I leaned back over to him. I said,

we still have 45 minutes. We're just like, oh

dear. And I wasn't looking at my phone because

I was like, is it over yet? How much longer does

it have to go? I was looking at it because I

didn't want it to end. I just wanted to know

when it was going to like, I didn't, I didn't

want it. I didn't want to be caught like off

guard and have it like just say dark night rises

across the screen and be like, oh my god what

the hell um i wanted to be able to uh prepare

for the eventual end of of the movie there was

an oh my god what the hell ending but it wasn't

because it was cliffhanger into another film

it was because it was the end of this version

well in in in for those listening this will be

spoiler driven so shut it off if you don't want

to hear it Yeah, what the hell are you doing

listening to a podcast? Go out and watch the

fucking movie first. I was gonna say, you shouldn't

be listening to this podcast if you haven't already

seen the movie. Exactly. But, um... That man

was asleep the whole time. He was knocked out

by Joe Chill. It was all in Alfred's head. He's

been in a coma since Joe Chill killed his parents.

They're all dead people. This is vital in my

mind. How many people were saying, it's inception.

I'm like, no, you guys are just fucking retarded

looking for something that's not there because

it's... plainly, you know, painted out for you.

There's there's no spinning, you know, top or

coin or whatever. Well, it's the people that

came out and go, well, he maybe he's not dead.

Maybe he's dead. Maybe this is all like, you

know, just I was like, shut the fuck up. Here's

my planned everything. If you if you watch the

last five minutes, I mean, just the oh, that

was done six months ago. I mean, the last five

minutes is like the last five minutes of a Saw

movie. It's here's how he lived. Paint by numbers.

Yeah, no Yeah, yeah, they reveal everything Well,

they reveal everything but they have to they

they have to reveal everything cuz they have

to tie it up late No, they could have just let

it left him dead I mean honestly they could have

ended it with the nuclear explosion and they

could have gone to credits and they could have

just left well they could have gone to his his

grave thing and then just left it at that and

you know Had Alfred still go to that place and

have nobody else's scenes in there have him stare

and then you know have nothing And you and then

everybody's bitching about the fact that Selena

Kyle's there with him well Everybody's going

well Alfred wouldn't know who he is and I think

that just lends that Lends more into the argument

of the fact that it isn't a dream because if

it was a dream Don't you think they would have

done something? Weirder like put Maggie Gyllenhaal

in there I mean, I'm just saying it was the argument

of the fact that it isn't it's not an inception

type of a moment This isn't a bullshit make you

think type of an ending it needs to be taken

at the face value because Alfred did it Alfred

the only thing he knows about Selena Kyle was

the fact that He sent that bitch upstairs to

drop off food, and she fucking stole from Bruce

Wayne. That's all he knows about her That's the

only interactions they have in the entire movie,

right? That was honestly a make -believe moment.

There's no way in hell that would have been Selena

Kyle sitting next to him Yeah, I honestly that

the end of that when I was watching that movie

The only other Nolan movie I was thinking of

the entire time I was watching it was the prestige

Because he had that goatee in the beginning and

his character pretty much has that same That

that same style in the prestige and I was just

like what movie are we watching again? But I

never got an Inception vibe, even from the end.

I was like, they set it up earlier. It's the

scene. That's clearly Christian Bale. It didn't

even dawn on me that it could be even an Inception

thing until Steve asked me to tell him if it

was an Inception thing. I was like, if anyone's

paying attention, it's clearly not an Inception

thing. I didn't pick up on the Inception vibe

until... Tell Steve said something When I read

it online, I was just like where the hell are

people getting this shit? Yeah, I was like they're

just reaching man They just want they want there

to be something there that there's not well and

the funny thing is people are still Believing

that crap and it's clearly painted out for you

now. Well the the other thing too this movie

I didn't I I hate to say it. I kind of learned

my lesson with the Avengers. With Spider -Man,

I didn't read... The only reviews I read before

we did the Spider -Man one was Mike's and Dan's.

And you watched that crappy ass hat. Yeah, but,

you know, that's one video that he's done where

he's been... I felt like he's been completely

wrong. Everything else he's done, he's been pretty

much spot on and I actually like his stuff. I

highly recommend that video. I really do. It's

really cool. Anyways, I did not read a single

review for Dark Knight Rises. I even put up a

block on Twitter for Dark Knight keywords so

that stuff wouldn't get filtered through my feed.

And I just, this was also my least anticipated

movie of the summer. Because I felt like I knew

what to expect. And to a certain extent, when

I sat down to watch the movie, I did know what

to expect. But it's still, even like some of

the plot twists in the movie, still I... Don't

know if we could talk about this here, but like

spoilers and stuff the we Well, what the hell

was that that was my phone I was there was a

lot that I was willing to there was some stuff

with like with Talia and Bane and Because it's

the Nolan verse and because it is separate from

the comics. I was willing to go along with You

know, the first twist, which was Bane being Ra's

Al Ghul's son. No, so unbelievable. Now, I was

willing to go along with it because one, it's

Christopher Nolan. Two, it's his version of the

Batman universe. It's not, I mean, yeah, they

borrow from the comics and stuff like that, but

he, you know, it's, he had license to do what

he wanted. And I was, and at the same time, I

didn't feel betrayed by that. I was kind of like,

all right. And then when they flip it right at

the end, I was like, okay, all is right. Still

works. You got me twice. That whole thing, just

for me, I just, I think it could have been handled

a little bit better with Bane. I mean, for me,

what would have made it better to me is if for

anybody who's read the comic book, I almost would

have preferred if they would have hinted more

so that Bane was Bruce's half brother. Because

that was always something I found interesting

they did the comic book ultimately ended up not

being true in the comic book But I think that

would have been I think it would have helped

explain a little bit more of how Bane knew who

Batman was how he knew where The tumblers were

and the armory was and all that stuff the fact

that you know Maybe if they they pointed out

that that you know he thinks that they're related

he's been keeping tabs on him this whole time

and then if it's also aligned with the leak of

shadows, I'm just Like and it was one for me

the whole Talia thing was I knew that was Talia

the moment she was on screen Yeah, it was I think

the way I can kind of explain that away about

oh How they knew is because race and Talia knew

and I'm sure Talia told Bain I mean, that's that's

how he knew but nobody knew about the armory

It was off the but that's the one of my big gripes

about I mean if somebody can explain it to me

awesome But she was made head of the Wayne bores

Everything's off the books doesn't matter think

of it this way the League of Shadows still have

their hands in everything Exactly. Somebody would

have had to have known at some point and reported

back to the head honcho. Even though Lucius and

Bruce were the only two that really knew about

it in the grand scheme, when I'm sure at some

point whomever is the CEO of Wayne You know Wayne

Industries Wayne Enterprises Wayne aerospace,

whatever the hell it's being called that you

know this day and age You know same thing with

Stark, but you know I'm sure at some point someone

would have investigated it. Just like that douchebag

in Dark Knight investigation That's where I took

it. That's how I took it You know someone would

have investigated that and someone would have

seen oh What is this dark super secret part of

the company that no one knows about? except for

Bruce Wayne and Lucius Fox. There's got to be

something here. And then they went and looked

at it, and that's how they found out. As far

as Bane knowing about Bruce himself being Batman,

my explanation of Talia told him. I mean, that

works. And that works, yeah, but... And I guess

it opens up more holes for me of how the hell

did Joseph Gordon Levitt's character figure out

that he was Batman so quickly? And Gordon's worked

with him for how many years? Well, OK, hang on

a second. I think there's a big error here in

terms of the timeline for the movies. Yes. Obviously,

Batman Begins is like the first few months, right?

Right. And the original plot from Goyer and Nolan

was that Bruce originally thought Batman was

gonna be like a five -year plan Okay, so if we

if we put Dark Knight Dark Knight between anywhere

between three and years three and five. Yeah

If we put it in there He's he has ceased to be

Batman for eight years. He is not good Gordon

has not talked to him For for eight years and

this kid has seen him at charity functions. But

for me, the other thing that I would have bought

is if he had been the kid in the Narrows. If

they had made him the kid in the Narrows and

he said that I saw you when I was older and that

he was able to put the two... And I was waiting

for that to happen too. That was like a missed

opportunity in my opinion because I was actually

waiting for that in the movie. I was really hoping

they were gonna bring that around and connect

that together. So for me I kind of bought it

as like it's just a he's been gone for eight

years and apparently the kids get these rumors

and he could have been for all we know at the

end of the day he could have just been shooting

in the dark. I mean, Bruce did not have to go

and do anything. The kid could have just taken

a wild Hail Mary shot in the dark. That happens

in movies all the time. It happens in the comics

a lot, too. Didn't John say that I saw you when

I was a kid? He saw Bruce as a kid. Right, exactly.

Plus, I think he looked at the fact that Batman

was gone and Bruce Wayne was gone. Exactly. That

eight year period. Maybe more people should have

figured it out. Then that was my gripe is the

fact that if he figured it out, why aren't more

people figuring this out? Regarding the armory

thing, I think one line, I think that could have

been explained better. I think a lot of the issues

in Dark Knight Rises, a lot of things are over

-explained. Some things are under -explained.

But Lucius Fox does drop a line saying that they're

collecting all this armory from around the world

to bring it back to one of my enterprises. So

that means other people are aware of this. Well,

somebody could be tracking it, and somebody could

be, uh, OK, I'll buy that. Let's not forget the

shadows hijacked the microwave emitter. That

was going back to Wayne Enterprises. They had

their hands in Wayne Enterprises. I mean, shit,

they could have put a tracking device right on

something as it was being shipped back there.

For me, OK, this is how I, regarding finding

the armory, just like Joker had no introduction,

he was just there. OK, he was just a force. I

just kind of, especially when you're dealing

with the League of Shadows, I'm just kind of

like, if you throw the League of Shadows in there,

that's just like, Free will to say and do whatever

you want It's for me. It's kind of a cheap shot.

It's like how do we make this happen League of

Shadows? So I and that that again that kind of

shit happens in the comic books all the time

But I don't hear comic books get blasted. You

know this badly well not badly, but I Don't read

comic books anymore. I did like Did really like

Catwoman. I felt like it was a kind of like how

Joker was I Don't know Mike if you meant this

literally or not But kind of like how Joker was

like an amalgamation of all the previous Joker

characters, right? I felt like her Catwoman was

the same thing for Catwoman It was subtle for

her for for Selena Kyle It was more subtle, but

yes, I do agree with what you're saying. Like

the suit looked like 1966 Catwoman. Yeah. And

then they had the goggles from the Jim Lee Catwoman.

Yeah. It was a nice mesh. Yeah. Yeah. It was

a very nice mesh, and she wasn't center stage.

She was very subdued as a character. Yeah. And

as I said before, they never, in the film, never

call her a Catwoman. It's just Selena Kyle in

a cat suit. They mention in the papers... that

there's a cat burglar on the loose, but they

never specifically say she's Catwoman. And I

like that because it's playing up to the Selena

Kyle character more so than her transformation

from Selena to Catwoman. I know one of the other

gripes that I've heard is that when we see her

apartment, she doesn't have a cat. She doesn't

have an ISIS or something like that there. And

I'm like, OK, I can kind of see that, but that's

like... really nitpicking. Yeah, that's reaching.

That's looking for shit to complain about. For

a film that has her in such a subdued role and

in such a background role, I don't really expect

her to have a cat at her apartment or to have

a million cats drinking out of a milk bowl or

a sign that says hello here and hell there. My

biggest gripe with the movie was I saw one of

my favorite Batman stories is No Man's Land.

Mm -hmm, which I'm seeing all these articles

over all over the internet about comic like comics

at Dark Knight Rises draws his inspiration from

and No Man's Land is not getting mentioned Actually,

it is. I was gonna say the article that Steve

attached had something about it It's the last

comic books the five comic books to prepare you

for the Dark Knight Rises and they they mention

Batman legacy They mentioned Batman incorporated

season 2 Catwoman Celine is big score Batman

no man's land and Batman nightfall Okay, which

all do have a lot of the plot that ties into

this But for me my biggest my biggest gripe with

the movie was Again, this would have added to

the runtime in Nolan kind of had his hands tied

because unfortunately Heath Ledger is gone Yeah,

well the biggest tip of the hat to no man's land

for me besides Arkham being cut off from the

rest of the world Was when Selena Kyle Helps

the kid that's getting beaten up for taking the

apple. Yeah, she was defending her territory

and in no man's land Batman's rogues and the

Gotham police, they take up arrows in Gotham

City and they defend them and they tag their

territories and Joker, Penguin, they've all got

their little slices of Gotham. It's all been

cut up and divvied up among the criminals and

the cops. When that scene came up, I was like,

it all of a sudden dawned on me what a missed

opportunity and through no fault of Nolan's,

of course. I was like, man, that would have been

cool. Well, it would have turned it into a two

part movie, which I think almost would have fit

this much better. Yeah, which it would have broken

the trilogy. Unfortunately, I still think that

they should have. And yes, I know that this is

not sticking towards our script very much, being

that it's kind of a little bit all over the place.

But the. As far as. The Joker I felt that they

could have at least had somebody Dressed up as

him kind of you know at least kind of running

by and then just use some pre -recorded cackle

I Disagree with that. That's your opinion and

that's all well and good I think if what would

have been a nice little nod is if they had Separate

piece of video footage like some of the video

footage from the dark night of him on camera

Cackling or something in the background if they

had something like that playing somewhere in

the movie I I don't want to see someone dressed

up as the Joe after what ledger did in this film

Well, I'm not saying do a close -up of his face

or anything Just I know the back of his head

kind of running through I'm terrorizing. Yeah,

but for me that wouldn't work because it's not

Everybody saw how well ledger was in the makeup

and the costume and everything else, and I don't

think just having some random extra dressed up

from the back. Well, true, but it's a missed

opportunity. They had Scarecrow in all three

films, and granted he was only a cameo in this,

I think that they could have at least had something

because where else the Joker in all this? I feel

like he just didn't do it. He just, he, because

I know... Nolan said he didn't want to and I

mean he was very Ediment about that in his interview

that he said out of respect for Heath And I can

understand that but that was a missed Well, I

know of the story there needed to be something

at least drawing to where the hell he was at

and if Heath never died This would have been

totally different movie, but I mean we could

go on about and hypothesize about that for hours.

Yeah, yeah getting into some pros and cons for

me The only con came Midway through the movie

and then it went away once that second twist

happened because you know, I'm someone who comes

from you know Batman the animated series that's

mainly where I know Bane from outside of Batman

and Robin, but let's not talk about that But

like Batman the animated series and that's where

I know all of these characters that are in this

movie are from Ra's al Ghul, Talia, Bane, Catwoman,

all that stuff. That's where I primarily know

them from. And when they started leading you

down the red herring path of, oh, Bane was the

child, that was like, fuck this movie. There's

no fucking way in hell that that's true. And

it's one of those things, if you have the knowledge

ahead of time. I've read the comic books, and

I knew Talia was in the movie. I knew she's the

daughter of Ra's. It was one of those things

that I'd never once fell down that path, because

I'm like, I kind of know where they're going

with this, but I'm not sure how they're going

to pull it off. I mean, it honestly was a nice

switch. It was a nice switcheroo, because instead

of them leading you halfway down the path of,

oh, Bane is the child, and oh, no, wait, Bane

was her bodyguard. And I don't mind that. It's

a better... It's a better portrayal for Bane

than Batman and Robin, but if you really boil

it down to it It's pretty damn similar to Batman

and Robin even though Bane is very intelligent

in this and it shows off his intelligence He's

essentially relegated to being a henchman to

a woman. Well, but you It doesn't really happen

until the twist happens. And I will agree, the

moment the twist happens, Bing got bitched the

moment that twist happened. And it was like any

sense of foreboding and. Presence that they built

through that entire movie felt like it was completely

pulled out of the movie the moment they revealed

the twist I don't actually I don't agree with

that. I don't I think it did make him I think

it made him more of a sympathetic character it

like that moment You can see he made him a deeper

character than just this force that he was throughout

the entire film Yeah, it does make him less of

a threat maybe but I think it I think what really

sold it was Hardy's performance in that moment

seeing you know with only using his eyes and

facial expressions, being able to sell his emotions

toward, you know, Talia. I thought that was a

fantastic moment. It made that character a lot

more sympathetic than he would have been. Yeah,

that was my one main gripe of it. And that's

really the only gripe I have on the film as far

as a con, as far as prose. I mean, everything

else, the lines from the two actors that have

gone really... Kind of in the background here

Kane and Freeman as Alfred and Lucius Fox, right,

you know, you know respectively Michael Kane

is essentially the quintessential live -action

Alfred at this point, you know no disrespect

to what Michael Goff did in the in the other

films but and and what the 66 actor did in the

TV series, but it was one of those things where

Michael Caine just embodies Alfred so much and

you know the first two movies he you know he's

cracking jokes and he's you know kind of being

a little bit of comedy for Batman and Bruce Wayne

and all that stuff and we're in this one he pretty

much reaches into his soul and shows you his

heart I mean it's just it's a gut -wrenching

scene and Lucius has always you know the Lucius

in these three films has always been that kind

of wisecracking look the other way employee And

I just love the thing in this one where he's

like, you know, these conversations usually end

with an unusual request. And I just absolutely

love that. I love that they worked in Bane breaking

Batman's back. You know, I know a lot of people

might not care about that. I thought it was a

nice little nod. And as we've already talked

about, you know, the Selena Kyle Catwoman, I...

Yes, we don't know in the beginning scene where

Alfred is talking about his dream or his his

his envisionment for Bruce You know, we don't

see exactly who it is and at the end we we see

it is Selena I like that it is Selena at the

end because of the fact that they have this at

least on her part Some strong sexual tension

every time they're together And silence Sorry,

I was not like my head. Yeah, I could see where

it's coming from on that. Yeah. I could see it

behind that. As far as the gadgets for me, the

gadgets were great. I know no one is based in

the real world, but when I first saw the bat,

I was like, really? It didn't grab me as well

as the Tumblr or the Batpod did. You know, after

a while seeing it multiple times, seeing the

I'm just gonna call it the fucking Batwing, that's

what it fucking is. After seeing the Batwing

several times in the film, I got used to it,

but at first I was like, really, this is what

the version of the Batwing is that they're making?

I think the more and more I saw it, and the more

I saw how it mechanically worked, the more and

more sold on it I became. Yeah, when I first

saw it, I was like, really, that's the way they're

going? But as I saw it throughout the film, I

got to like it better. Real quick, going off

of the, you know, when everyone first saw The

Bat, can we just all admit right now that in

terms of keeping this film off the internet,

Warner Brothers did a horrible job. Like, there

were, every week there were set photos, like,

from mobile, not even like official ones, but,

you know, cell phone shots. Like, every week,

and in... Well, unless you take away the cell

phones of every single person who works in your

production, unless you do close sets everywhere,

the way technology is going, it's only going

to get more and more difficult to keep this stuff

hush hush. I understand that, but Dark Knight

did not have these same issues. And Batman Begins

certainly did not have these same issues. And

granted, a lot has happened in four years, but

it was... To a certain extent it like very early

on before they showed anything because even when

all this stuff was coming out Warner Brothers

wasn't responding with official anything So all

the the the the nerds and the geeks were seeing

online were these horrible horrible cell phone

shots Yeah, that was a lot of that was how a

lot of people first saw the bat I didn't even

see it like that. The first time I saw it was

in one of the trailers. That was the one thing.

You might have mentioned this off air, but I

know you mentioned earlier that this was the

one film that you were ready for, but you knew

going in what to expect because it is a Nolan

bad film. most, you know, most hyped up movie

because you knew what to expect out of it. I

knew what to expect out of it, too. But I stayed

away from a lot of a lot of the online leaks

and all that stuff for this because I wanted

to be surprised going in with some of the stuff.

Well, what I'll say, though, is that even with

all the trailers that they did put out because

they released like five, which is like at least

two more than like the last movies got. But they

I unlike the trailers for Dark Knight, where

I guess the plot based off of the IMAX teaser

that they put on I Am Legend. I didn't know how

The Dark Knight Rises was going to unfold. I

knew what type of movie it was going to be, but

I did not know what order those scenes were in.

And I was really surprised by that. But as far

as the bat goes, once I saw it, I stopped looking

at those set photos. Once I realized how many

of them were out there and how bad it was making

the movie look, I never lost faith in the production

But I just kind of stayed away from it at then

but then when I first when they when they first

showed it With the joke, you know, this isn't

a car I bought it. Yeah What about you Steve?

What are your pros and cons of rises? Well, I

did like the bat the bat pod. That was cool or

not the bat pod the bat Batwing whatever whatever

the hell you want to call it I did like that

aspect As far as the film entirely, I also did

not know what to expect from it. I knew it was

going to be good. I just didn't know any of the

story. I didn't know what comics initially it

was pulling from because I'm not familiar with

much of the old Batman mythos, although I am

getting very familiar with it after the fact.

I didn't really find anything that... As far

as the characters, I knew Miranda Tate was Talia.

That was just pretty obvious. The whole enemy

being close kind of thing. It just kind of made

it obvious to me. There did seem to be a little

bit of... jumbled upness between some of the

characters plots in there, but that I Don't know

overall it I like I like the film a lot. I Don't

really know what they could have done to improve

on it all that much So who's next I think I can

go next I Think I have a lot of pros not many

cons, but I guess I'll start with the cons Some

of the cons that came to mind. I think there

are certain things that could have been explained

a little bit better. What Bruce Wayne or Batman

saw in Selina Kyle or Catwoman, it seemed like

he always felt like he had this plan for her,

like he had faith in her. And I always wondered

where he saw it. I think it was there, but it

could have been better explained. I think the

biggest grip I had was I think the themes in

this were a little More heavy -handed than the

other films like the idea of rising and how it

was said so often and how he's rising from the

ashes it kind of got a little bit much especially

in the and The sequence in the in the pit when

he's trying to climb up but overall but I think

those are really minor it didn't really bug me

too much and to the the With dark night. There

was a lot of talk about how Post 9 -11 politics

influenced that film I didn't see it that much

during when I watched it the first time but as

as I watched it You know second third fourth

and so on I saw it more and I think it's still

kind of there But it's it's not as evident in

this I do think that there a lot of the you know

99 % stuff was a little was a little much and

not needed it I did but I what I didn't realize

Until recently when They explained that the tale

two cities had a huge impact on the plot of this

movie And I think that actually makes more sense

and I kind of see so that issue bothered bothers

me even less now But for the pros, which I think

there are a lot of I think the one big pro that

is not talked about nearly as enough Maybe because

it was released before the film came out was

that opening action sequence, which I think is

Completely amazing what they were able to do

with real airplanes like having an airplane completely

Carry another airplane that shot of Bain holding

the doctor with the plane falling down. I thought

that was absolutely fantastic I didn't see it

during mission impossible. So that was kind of

the first time I saw that moment I thought and

that kind of brought me in right away No one

knows how to use practical effects and that was

probably the best maybe the best action moment

in the movie. Another really great one that kind

of stuck out to my mind was the moment of the

police charging Bane's forces you know with the

snow and you know that idea of the that classic

charge moment from like a Lord of the Rings put

in a Batman movie I thought was fantastic and

that with all the and I thought the score was

used really well on this like we mentioned earlier

how the One thing I liked about the moment with

Batman climbing out of the pit was how that was

the first time we heard the Dark Knight theme,

and it really kicked up, and I think it really

got the energy going after having a film kind

of take you down so low with Gotham being in

complete shambles. I think that really made a

really emotional moment, but yeah, I thought

it was fantastic. Dan, do you want to go? Sure,

I'll go. As far as cons go I guess for I don't

want to contradict Dan, but The score was kind

of for me felt kind of weaker because I didn't

think it was as emotionally engaging as I think

it wasn't later on in the movie I think it was

far more emotionally gauging, but I thought it

was fairly underutilized at the beginning of

the movie I will say the one pro to that the

fact that there was no music Underneath the first

fight sequence with Bane and Batman was beautiful

That was well done But as other cons go like

like I brought up the Matthew Modine thing Completely

useless. I didn't understand why we were focusing

and wasting time on such a sniveling shit He

was essentially to me and I'm sorry to cut you

off. He was essentially to me a a skinny Harvey

Bullock. He was meant to be there to be that,

oh, let's just get Batman. I don't care what

the hell happened. Well, and it's like I said,

I understood why he was there in the beginning

of the movie, but all the stuff that happened

in the No Man's Land scenario portion of the

movie, I thought that was useless. They basically

could have ended with him turning his back. I

didn't need him in his dress blues charging in

the battle. This is showing that he's redeemed

himself in in the time in need. I'm like, yeah,

I don't really he's like he's one of the characters

that I just thought I'm like I he's not somebody

I care about in the cast and he was Pretty in

my opinion. It was a waste of screen time that

they could have been spent explaining other things

Like Bruce got back from the pit. Yeah, like

how Bruce got back from the pit. I don't I don't

mind that scene It doesn't bother me either.

I think the pit, another con is I think the pit

was a little drawn out. The other issues I have

is technically you only really see one bat and

it's a little confusing at the end of the movie

when they're looking at the bat, talking about

the guidance system getting fixed. I was under

the impression there was only one bat because

if there was only one bat that was the weakest.

nuclear blast ever the fact that there's a bat

that they're sitting there fixing on which I

Have to assume I need to take the leap of faith

and say that I guess there was there must have

been more bats Yeah, we know that made the mention

of the fact that they come in black. So off of

that one Conversation I have to assume there

was more than one but that wasn't wasn't really

well established. Well, the fact there's multiple

tumblers Yeah, yeah and I could probably go on

with a few more cons, but the pros, Tom Hardy

was amazing. The issues I do have at the end

of the movie where it feels like Bane kind of

got punked out regardless, he was amazing as

Bane, and I was really impressed with that, but

I mean, I'd be really impressed with a cardboard

box playing Bane after Batman and Robin. And

Joseph Gordon -Levitt, I didn't think I would

enjoy his story arc as much as I did, but it

was one of those things that was probably the

most surprising and impressing portion of the

movie to me was his story arc. And it just felt

like, like I said, it felt the most complete

and wrapped up to me out of everybody's story

arcs in the movie. And I just really enjoyed

that portion of it. Yeah, that's all I got. What

about you, Mike? Well, I Just want to I since

nobody actually brought it up and I haven't heard

this anywhere Well, you know, we'll see I'll

save it for the trivia part see if maybe it gets

brought up there, but pros I Like the bat I I

like the going back to the the second bat cave

I Really like the new bat cave Oh, yeah, I I

Liked uh Actually when I was doing my thing,

I pretty much ran through everything The one

thing I will go back to though is the voice of

Bane I was fortunate enough to see the footage

in IMAX with Mission Impossible I I could hear

what he was saying in the in the IMAX In the

in the original cut So it was a little a little

hard to hear but it wasn't What was shown in

the scene you could I could gather what he was

saying And When they remixed it for the final

cut they put they pulled Bane's voice out over

top of what was happening so even the second

time I I saw the film. I felt like it was a mono,

like an inner voice thing that Bane was doing

while he was saying something completely different

to the audience that I couldn't hear. I felt

like the voice that I heard was in his head.

Like he's just narrating kind of like a Ferris

Bueller would. Like, and I, and it's just because

they pulled it out where in the original cut,

his voice was mixed in with the footage. So it

kind of drew you into the scene. He was You were

there. His voice in the final kind of pulled

me out. You watch what's happening while you

listen to someone narrate it versus seeing it

being in the movie. So I wasn't I was kind of

I was kind of mad that they are kind of bum that

they went overboard with the mixing I was gonna

say and the one thing that about the mixing of

his voice When they do the scene in front of

black gate, and he's using the megaphone. I was

like man. How unnecessary does that sound? Yeah,

it's you know they pulled it out over top the

I Had it I can't remember what it was so much.

Yes, you did ass It's my goal in life going back

to going back to the The from the pit to Gotham

yeah, I did everybody's like oh there should

have been something They're showing you know

kind of like an iron man where they picked Tony

up out of the desert There should have been something

there to transition. I don't think so because

that would have been an additional what maybe

five you know two three four five minutes max

onto the tail end of the of the time frame of

the film not even that i don't think so i think

for pacing purposes what they did i think worked

yeah it did work because that's the thing okay

you see him get out of the pit you know obviously

he's going to find a way back to the Back to

Gothman, of course, you know, Steve and I always

use, well, he's the goddamn Batman. He can do

whatever he wants, or he can get shit done. And

that's all well and good. I like the fact that,

you know, Selina turns around and he's just there.

That's just what happens. That's an issue I had

the first time I saw it. The second time I saw

it, I was like, what the fuck, whatever, just

get the movie on with. I just, everything else

was being shown at that point in the movie. Everything

else is being shown in such minute detail Like

even like did we really need the Special Forces

unit to come in and explain that the time bomb

was counting down? No, we didn't need that scene

It's it's even that even the actor they got to

put in that scene, which I actually like him

from rescue me he just he's in there for all

of like five minutes and then he's in there no

more like I There they showed like so many other

minor details of things happening It would have

been nice to see how, you know, Bane meticulously

planned his takeover of Gotham City and to be

very sure that people couldn't get on and people

couldn't get on the island that he didn't want

on the island and people couldn't get off the

island that he didn't want to get off the island.

But yet Bruce just somehow can. It would have

been just nice to see something showing like

Bruce had to do like how he had to like circumvent

it. And those scenes were so quick. And for me,

that transition was just so abrupt. For me, the

pit was in the Middle East. So how does he go?

In the scene right before that, when they're

in Gotham City, they're like, we have like 48

hours left. And then they go to him getting out

of the pit, and he's in the Middle East. How

long does it take him to procure a thing, and

then get back to Gotham City, and then get into

Gotham City, and then he's got like 12 hours

left? I was kind of like... That the pacing right

there is just kind of messed up I was kind of

like show me something about how he was how Batman

got back into the city Well, if they were gonna

show something they should have showed something

about the there's five seconds left on the bomb

And how did he get out of there when I was that

part? I was fine I that still bothers me and

I swear to God the first person that said well,

he's Batman I swear to God don't don't go there

for that one. I will give you everything else

because it was already explained It was explained

at the end of the movie. They show a shot of

him in the bat, and then they show five seconds

left on the clock. Right, and then they show

five seconds on the bomb. It explodes. After

that happens, after the funeral, Lucius goes

down and says, you know, what could I have done

differently? And they go, it was fixed six months

ago. The patch was done by Bruce Wayne. I get

that, but I don't get how he escapes a blast

radius in the middle of the ocean. Number one,

he's got five seconds left, he's in the bat.

He has to get out of the bat, he has to get into

the ocean, and he has to be far enough away to

not die from radiation poisoning. Unless he has

radiation repellent. He has to clear a six mile

radius in five seconds. Exactly. That is the

biggest leap of faith for me right there. I can

bow gracefully to any issue I have in the movie,

but that is the one issue that baffles me beyond

no way. I'll buy Batman breathing in space before

I buy him out running a nuke with a six mile

radius in five seconds. All they had to do is

show a flash of blue and red. And he's just recklessly

funny. No, that would not happen. No. Don't even

go there. Just on that moment, though, I think

if they, yeah, maybe it should have been five

seconds, but I'm kind of tired of this idea that

we have to have everything spelled out to us

as moviegoers. I guess this really started with

Prometheus and how people hated all the open

-ended questions with that. I do think that last

moment was handled kind of It was it was kind

of a huge leap of faith. Maybe it shouldn't been

five seconds. I don't know why it could have

been 30 Maybe they're just trying to make it

more exciting of an ending seconds I would have

gotten past ten seconds way quicker than five

Sometimes you get you have to have you have to

concede certain things have certain moments and

I'm completely okay with conceding that fact

for having the ending that it had like if we

saw like If we saw him get out of that bad pod

if we saw him do we really need to see how we

got back? to Gotham? What would that do? What

would that tell us that we don't know? I think

what they were saying is that they wanted to

see how he got, not gotten back to Gotham, how

he got back into the city from all the barricades

and the bridges being closed. That's what they

were saying as far as how to see. I just forget

that he used the bat because that's what my assumption

was. And I can accept it in that stance. And

I guess the only thing that bothers me with the

five second thing, if they wouldn't have shown

the shot of him inside the bat, if they would

have literally just stuck with the bat flying

out to the ocean, I could have completely bought

the autopilot thing and just left it as is and

I would have been fine with that. But the fact

that they showed him in the bat and then the

five seconds, that was... Alright, well let me

ask you this, guys. Do you think that once he

cleared the city before he got to the point of

five seconds, maybe it was already on autopilot

and he ejected, because if it's on autopilot

and it has a set destination, he could have ejected

before that five seconds was up. Well, the only

problem is they show that timer and then he's

sitting there just plain faced staring at the

camera. with a black background and all of a

sudden... That's my issue. If it wasn't for that

one shot, it's completely believable to me. But

that's what makes it very far -fetched as far

as the end. It was very sloppy. It was. I think

it... And I think, too, I think that whole bomb,

that whole bomb with Guffin was kind of... not

used very well. When Jordan Gordon -Levitt literally

calls it a time bomb, I'm like, OK, you don't

need to be that literal with it. The fact that

you have something that converts energy that

can be turned into a nuclear bomb within 10 minutes

is a very large design form. OK, all right, hang

on a second. Again, we don't know how much time.

The last half of that movie, time moves so fast.

Yeah, so you don't we don't know how long they

were actually down there configuring that bomb

and Look at nuclear energy. I mean that literally

can go wrong really quick. Yeah, so yeah, it's

just it's Because because so much the second

half of that movie deals with time Things appear

to happen way faster than they probably actually

do in in movie time You know what I'm saying?

Yeah so The other thing that I like kind of putting

a point on the pros and cons was something no

one has brought up to this point was the scene

the rooftop fight scene with Daggett's men and

he says no guns and she's like oh that's no fun

and at the end of it he's like I saved your life

damn it whatever and all of a sudden she's just

gone he's like oh so that's what that feels like

I thought that was great. That was awesome. The

other thing I thought was great as far as putting

a point in a period on this version of Batman

and, you know, having the legend end was that

essentially everyone in this film knows who the

fuck Batman is. Even Commissioner Gore. He's

like, Bruce Wayne? There's only four that actually

know that are still alive. Well, okay, right,

but... Okay, I'm sorry. Everyone has to know

that Lucius knows. Everyone has to believe that

Lucius knows there's no way Lucius does not know

that he is Batman Lucius is always know yeah,

I mean Lucius is always known in these films

that he is Batman because I'm sorry even in that

very first scene of oh I need to go cave spelunking.

That's the lamest fucking excuse ever But you

know I love that and I you know I Just I like

the film overall as I said before It's something

I could maybe watch once every six months. It's

not something I could watch every other month

or, you know, something like that just because

of how powerful the film is to me. So do we want

to get into some trivia, Steve? Uh, yes. And,

um... Uh... Yeah, we've already done all that.

Um... Leave me alone, dammit! Um... Well, there's,

for instance, some Easter eggs in the film. This

is what I'm interested to hear about to see if

the one I'm thinking of is in this list. I did

pull this from a site. They have the caterer,

in the very beginning, his name was Chill. They

call him Mr. Chill. Hinting at the Joe chill

mugger. Yes, then there's the football game where

they have the fans in the In the audience holding

up the the posters and there's the Robin R The

Tim Drake Robbins costume symbol Actually in

there which is kind of fitting Bruce's family

photos Which if you paid attention to it, they

have Rachel Dawes there, but it's the Maggie

Gyllenhaal yeah version Well, of course that

was the best one out of the two I think it would

have been funny if every time they look at it

it changes back to the other person I would have

loved that I would have thought that was a nice

touch Then of course there's the Quote of giant

alligators in the sewer Twice they mentioned

allegations who are twice. Yes almost kind of

hinting at killer croc And then there's the the

When the veteran cop tells a rookie to sit back

you're in for a show Which is basically they're

hinting There's a similar scene I guess in the

Dark Knight returns story Mm -hmm when Batman

comes back from years of retirement, which that's

a nice touch for that But it's also kind of I

took it being that I'm not familiar with Dark

Knight returns. I took it as like as in the Dark

Knight film I Have a nice leather -bound edition

of year one and Dark Knight returns. I can let

you borrow Yeah, that'd be cool That's all the

trivia I got Okay, mine was not on there, and

you guys might think I'm overstepping here, and

I'm interested to see what you guys might think

about this. The two times I saw it, I didn't

see anything to disprove my line of thinking,

and I haven't actually heard this, but does anyone

get a hint of, especially around Selena Kyle?

Does anyone get a hint of poison ivies running

around in Gotham somehow? The way the congressman

like fell head over heels for her and was following

her around doing everything that she wanted.

And then like even when they brought it up again

later when he was like the congressman and she's

like, is she still head over heels for me? And

he says, yes, but he's pressing charges. And

then there's the guy at the ball who she was

dancing with first. He's like, as soon as Bruce

is done, he chases after her. Because he has

to have her. He's like, you ruined it, damn it.

I was getting a hint of the poison ivy lipstick.

Yeah, I didn't think that, but I could see that.

It's a subtle nod. A tiny little nod. I mean,

it's not on the nose, and I only thought of it

because she was just... They seem to be... Overly

infatuated with her to the point of it being

like chemically induced Yeah, so it's just kind

of like if that's it. That's a nice little nod

to a larger like row thing going on As long as

Uma Thurman doesn't come back. No, I'm just I

was just I was just thinking that's that's the

one thing that I noticed Yeah, yeah, I hit him

in the rock I was just kind of curious as to

what you guys might think. I love that episode.

I didn't see that. I just thought it was some

horny old men who were really big fans of Princess

Diaries. Oh, that's bordering on cradle robbing

right there. I think that was the one thing that

I was I wasn't skeptical about Hathaway's acting

ability as Selena Kyle because I knew that the

role was going to be slightly, you know. Well,

not slightly, but it was going to be more real

than previous versions. But that was the one

thing when I first heard her name as Selena Kyle,

I'm like, really? The chick from Frances? Well,

she's done a lot of other films, though, that

show a lot of range. So I mean, if you... No,

I understand that. Mike, do you want to bring

up your other point about the novelization? We

touched on it a bit ago about how Steve wanted

to see a bit of the Joker in the film. But you

sent me a link on Twitter about the novelization

apparently he is no yeah in the novel he's mentioned

as being They moved all of the They moved all

of the inmates basically the Dent act is makes

it so that a criminal cannot be tried using the

insanity plea Mm -hmm, so they all get sent to

a black gate Well, the Joker remains the sole

resident of Arkham Asylum, which is why he's

not running out And there's actually, I think

reading that article, I know Steve read it too,

I don't know if you saw it Dan or Mike. I read

it also. I don't know if anyone can say if that's

like quote unquote like a fan storyboard, like

an unofficial storyboard, but it was like just

Joker just seeing his smile through the crack

in the slit in the Arkham doors. That story panel,

that was actually Blackgate. I thought it was

Arkham. No, it was Blackgate because it was referencing

the scene where Bane goes to the... The story

panel shows that Bane letting all the prisoners

out of Blackgate and Joker going up to his cell

door waiting for his cell door to open with a

big grin on his face. He starts pounding on the

door and the door... never opens, and he smiles,

turns into a frown, and he just sits back down

on his bunk. Just real quick, I know we said

earlier that we could speculate for hours on

end about what the movie would have been like

with Joker. I just want to throw this out there.

I just want to throw this out there. If you guys

can capitalize on it. I don't want to make it

a big discussion, but I've been holding onto

this for like a week. If he had been in the movie,

I think because of his infatuation with Gotham

City and with Batman, I think it would have been

Joker just trying to fuck up Bane's plan. Oh,

most definitely. Well, because Bane's trying

to kill Batman and Joker needs Batman to have

fun. Yeah, so I think it would have been kind

of interesting for... There's no other way to

say this. I think it would have been kind of

interesting to see a impromptu team up. Maybe

not fighting on the same side, but trying to

accomplish the same goal. That's just that's

how I when I think about it. I'm just like there's

no way he would let Bane Yeah, he was I've been

to you that stuff so yeah, I can see that that

would that would definitely be something cool

to see it or Would have been something cool to

have seen I Love how the film just kind of as

my closing thoughts here. I love how the film

comes full circle or in the beginning you have

Well, because the Wayne Foundation money is,

you know, dried up, the boys' homes don't get

any more money. And then at the end, the house

goes to, you know, becomes a home for boys. And

I love that. I love the part where they just

briefly mentioned John's real name. That was

a nice little nod to Robin. Because no one said

from the beginning, even back in 2003, 2004,

2005, Robin will not be in my movies. Well, and

Bale said he wouldn't be in it if Robin was in

it. Right. Right. And I like the subtle nod.

I like the fact that he... You know they they

essentially lead you to believe that he is going

to take up the mantle of Batman or Nightwing

or whatever, you know, you know, whatever he's

gonna do and I love that Overall the movie is

just great. It's it's a great ending. I don't

know how the hell They're gonna reboot this franchise.

I don't know how the hell they're gonna reboot

Batman terribly As long as they don't put you

know Michael Bay Well, no. Michael, he's too

busy with robot dicks. Mark Steven Johnson. That's

my guess. Oh, God, that's kind of scary now.

I know. I kind of threw up in my mouth after

saying that. You know, as long as they don't

go back to the campiness of films, it doesn't

have to be so serious, but at the same time,

it doesn't have to be... It doesn't have to be

what Batman and Robin was. I think because of

this movie series that I think Warner Brothers

sees that they don't have to do that now. That's

the only thing they learned from this. I hope

that's what they learned. That's why the new

Superman movie looks like it's going to be in

the same style. Yeah. Well, no one is producing

that. And his brother's writing it. And you've

got Zack Snyder directing it. After Man of Steel,

I don't know what DC is going to do for films.

My thought process, and I kind of got this from

Steve a bit. I honestly hope that Man of Steel

kind of launches or gives us a preview to whatever

the next thing is. I hope the next thing after

Man of Steel is they start with a Justice League

movie and then they branch off. and have more

films from those original seven members. Well,

it's already rumored that there's gonna be a

Wonder Woman cameo and Superman, which I'll believe

it when I see it. See, I once, I had that same

opinion that Steve did where they should just

start with the Justice League and then go off

from there. I don't feel that way anymore. I

think, I don't think Warner Brothers should even

try and copy Marvel. I don't think they need

to do a unified universe. I think they need to

concentrate on making great films In terms of

but the problem is their films don't aren't great

except for Batman and Superman right well I'm

saying they need to concentrate on making great

films. It's kind of it's That the Batman films

the the look and feel and in and everything in

the Batman films is and in my opinion, on a different

level than anything Marvel Studios is producing.

If DC can bring that to their other franchises,

and Superman will be the telling point. Ken Nolan

and his team working with Zack Snyder and his

team, due to Superman, what Nolan and his team

did for Batman, that's awesome. But I don't want

to see... I don't want to see a Justice League

movie. I want to see them make great stories

around these characters and focusing on these

characters without having to get into the mess

of planting things to seed other movies that...

Because then you end up with the possibility

of maybe ending up with an Iron Man 2 when you

could have had a really great movie. You stole

the words out of my mouth. You can I too is not

that bad. It's not bad But it's a it's a bogged

down movie. That's perpetually there just to

Pull the plan together and I I would rather see

just great Store I'd rather see Warner Brothers

Do what they've done which is get one director

get them to you know get get great directors

and get them to make Create movies water brothers

has always been able to do that. So Steve I Didn't

know who was trying to jump in there Dan. What

were you gonna say? It's kind of piggyback on

what you guys are saying I think like you said

Mike that's our night. He shows what you can

do when you give a great director free work on

a franchise. With Marvel, what the Avengers is,

it's impressive. But the Avengers is a studio's

vision. It's not a director's vision. And with

that, yes, you can make this universe. But you

don't get those touches you get with a Nolan

-directed film. And I think Nolan allows this

movie to work in ways that wouldn't work otherwise

with other characters. I think, yes, a Dress

for the League movie would be great. But like

you guys are mentioning, I'm OK with that one.

Just make great movies. That's all I think it's

gonna get to the point where people are gonna

get sick of Comic book films and the only way

to make them not sick of those movies is by making

good ones So I think that's the big key. Well

the thing with the super Like superhero films

and all those they're going they're already starting

to kind of die out in a sense like certain ones

Well, yeah Well, I mean even Marvel like to some

extent some of them aren't as popular as others

like if you take Iron Man Against like Thor Thor

is not going to do as well as Iron Man or even

Captain America Or it's the same thing with the

DC Green Lantern didn't do as well Now that was

just a pissport villain that was chosen for the

for the first film So I was at least glad to

see Green Lantern hit the main screen They just

keep running into snags with the whole Wonder

Woman thing and then the Flash, I don't see that

happening anytime soon or any of the other separate

ones. I could see it working if they decided

to do a Justice League film. I still think if

they're going to do it, they should just either

branch out or at least use that as the only way

to have the Wonder Woman Flash and all the other...

secondary and tertiary characters. And they're

just kind of tight ended, whatever the new Batman

and Superman franchises are. Well, like, Nolan

has said publicly that, because Warner Brothers

wanted him to be their Kevin Feige, that he didn't

want that role. And I know that kind of upset

some nerds out there. But I understand where

he's coming from. But he also wrote a letter

describing his experience for the making of the

Dark Knight trilogy, the book, and in the letter,

like in the last paragraph or whatever, he says

he's done, not to look too much into what someone

writes, but he says he's done with that character.

I have a feeling he's not on board with DC's

plans for a Justice League movie, but I see him

working with Zack Snyder to bring the Man of

Steel to a trilogy. And then I see them, I see

him going and working with somebody else to bring,

to bring another character to the screen in like

a trilogy. I don't think he likes the idea of

a team -up movie. I think he likes the idea of

just working with talented people and creating

solid stories, which... him and his team are

capable of doing and it's just a matter of who

he chooses because he chose Zack Snyder so it's

a matter of who he chooses to direct if he does

a Wonder Woman if he produces like a Wonder Woman

or a Flash or whatever so Steve final thoughts

on Rises? Overall I would say that it's the best

of the three I really like it unlike you I can

watch it more times than you can in a year without

having a heart attack I've already watched it

three times, and it's on my mp3 player now. So

I'll be watching it again soon. But yeah, I'm

really, really glad at how this whole thing turned

out. I'm glad I'm not going to be pissed at having

to be pissed at the end of the third film like

I thought I was going to be. But I'm definitely

looking forward to what comes up in the future,

but this was a very nice Very thought -out trilogy

by Christopher Nolan and kudos to him Dan final

thoughts Well, I Think this has been one fantastic

trilogies on a little things. Well, and it's

tied up a lot of the big things Well, I think

one little cool Easter egg was how each film

didn't start with a title it just started with

a batman symbol that set up the color palette

for the entire film and it's just these little

bits and pieces that no one pays attention to

that maybe others wouldn't that makes dark knight

and the dark knight rises you know fantastic

movies i don't think dark knight rises is as

nearly as flawless as dark knight but it's i

think it is still a fantastic movie it's to me

it's the best movie of the summer so far and

it's can't i'm extremely curious where they're

going to go with it Mike Well, like I said before

I I think it's the best of the three and it's

the the best of the three movies We've seen that

we've reviewed this summer I as as a nerd. I'm

just I'm I'm grateful to have a Another successful

Well, what I think is an all -around good trilogy

I put it up there for me. I put it up as I said

on Twitter my little mini rant Put it up there

with like Lord of the Rings In terms of in terms

of how solid I feel the entire package is We

don't get very many of those No, very few people

are able to to pull it off and it's in its entirety.

So And at least no one will go on to other films

and not just you know rehashes one trilogy and

then make prequels of it over the last 40 years

So I Yeah, I look forward to whatever he does

next and I'm just I'm Well, I'm really looking

forward to watching this when it comes out this

fall and video Danner final thoughts I enjoyed

the film. It is I thought it was a good end cap

to the series It is not my favorite film out

of the Batman films But I did enjoy it quite

a bit and in fact out of the you know theatrical

releases of Batman films It's my number four

Boo. Wait a second. Wait a second. Hold on. Number

four. Number four. It goes - What the fuck are

the first three? Dark Knight, number one. Okay.

Mask of the Phantasm, number two. Wrong. You

can't mix - It's a theatrical - You cannot -

It's a theatrical release. It is a theatrical

release. Okay, go live action. It is a theatrical

release, but you cannot - Live action. Mix it

with live action. Fine, live action is my number

three. Woo. What's your first two? For like a

Dark Knight Batman begins and then rises, okay

You are redeemed for me would be I I had more

fun with Dark Knight because It was a serious

film, but at the same time it had a lot of upbeat

moments I felt this this third film was so powerful

and so emotional because it was bringing the

story to a conclusion I I would probably do myself

will be Dark Knight Dark Knight Rises and and

then begins but begins would be on the way low

end of the scale because I just I can only watch

that movie maybe once every two years or once

every six years Alright, let's go ahead and let's

go ahead and let everybody else rank them Steve.

How do you rank the trilogy? Um, I would probably

and that's tough either way Batman Begins is

my number three and That's where it gets hard

Damn While I do really love this film, I think

I have to give number one to the Dark Knight

because that's the Joker Yeah, so I thought you

were gonna do Dan what about you? You know first

second third for the trilogy I Think first would

still be the dark night Then dark night rises

and Batman begins it may change on him We were

watching it a second time, but I'm really I think

I'm more curious to see kind of going back and

figure out where this fits with trilogies in

general. I think that's kind of an interesting

discussion. But yeah, Dark Knight, Dark Knight

Rises, and Vaganza. What about you, Mike? Rises,

Dark Knight, and then Batman Vaganza. All right.

Steve? Already done. So I'd like to thank my

panel of hosts here on the episode discussing

the Dark Knight Rises. Is there anything that

you guys would like to pimp out before we go?

Just look forward to whatever we do for our first

episode of Extreme Retro Gaming. The history

of fourth player co -op. I thought you were going

to say something else. No, I just wanted to know.

Now we have to do that. Now it's on here. Now

we're doing it, whether you like it or not. Oh,

good lord. And here we go. So and Anything else

from you guys? No, um, not that we talk about

it I'm actually debating about doing a little

post about the best trilogies of all time So

maybe look for that the next week or so kind

of ranking the top 10 best trilogies ever made

I think it'd be kind of interesting to look at

them all Are you going to look at trilogies?

Are you gonna look at franchises or trilogies?

Just three films so This not including die -hard

because that's four movies not including Indiana

Jones have to have three movies I think franchises

is a whole different topic, but I think having

three coherent Trilogy that's actually trilogy

not just like back to the future and it but like

men black three to me isn't a trilogy It's just

three movies that exist but trilogies that have

some coherent theme all tied together men in

black, but they have a fourth film anyway, so

Yeah, yeah Look for that in the next week or

two. Hopefully I'll get some time to write that

up. And Mike? I think I pretty much covered everything

in the beginning of the show. I'm kind of all

blogged out at this point right now. In the last

month and a half, I put two blogs together, one

for films of DC, one for films of Marvel that

easily could have been 20 pages longer than what

they actually are. Just keep tuned into GeekCast

Radio and all our other stuff that we do and

everything else. We got a lot of stuff coming

up later on in the year, so. Yep, and of course

they'll, for me they'll be the TFCon coverage.

I plan on taking a crap ton of pictures and some

audio and maybe video, depends. And then of course

Getting ready soon to be doing a spotlight on

M -Wire and of course more Legends of the Dark

Knight. Yes, of course. So with that you can

contact us via Twitter. My Twitter name is at

scp21. What are your Twitter names? Movie Revolt.

At Boothinja81. At Art Danner. Thank you for

joining us for this M .Y .R. Special Comic Book

Summer Special. Join us next time when we sit

down and discuss some more great and awesome

films. Thank you for listening. Until next time.

Keep those film reels rolling. Oh, reels. All

right, Mike. The one gripe I had. About the movie

experience about going to see Rises was. I didn't

find this out till I got home. My theater, now

it's essentially attached to a dollar theater

company, but it's kind of like an indie theater.

It's part of Apex Theaters. It's Baxter Avenue

Theaters up in the Highlands. It was the weirdest

friggin' thing. I got home and someone asked

me, how was the Man of Steel teaser? I'm like,

What man of steel teaser? And they're like, well,

it was in front of the Dark Knight res. Not in

front of mine, it wasn't. Because it wasn't.

My theater showed me teasers. Not actual trailers,

but a teaser for Born Legacy, a teaser for Skyfall,

which looks like shit. Well, no. I beg your pardon.

Step back. They need to get a new fucking James

Bond. I'm fucking sick of Daniel Craig. No. I'm

fucking sick of Daniel Craig. No. Sick of Daniel

Craig. Anyway, so I saw those two. They showed...

Oh god, what else did they show? I don't like

James Bond anyway, so it doesn't affect me. They

showed two other ones. I forget what they were.

I honestly don't even remember. But it's like

they show all these teasers that came out months

ago. So my question is, as a projectionist, how

do these, sometimes in different theaters, assets

go about choosing what goes in front of a film?

Typically, it's set up by corporate. The corporate

office usually gets instructions from the film

companies. And then the film, they basically

position trailers on that. If you have a smaller,

more independent chain, they don't really have

to answer those types of rules. Now why would

they show the teasers when actual theatrical

trailers have come? That's that's really my house

here thing were they a two minute and 30 second

trailer is a trailer It's not a teaser. No, so

where these like 90 second things the born legacy

trailer Or teaser whatever the fuck it was it

two of these things at the end of it said coming

summer 2012 That to me when it says that it doesn't

give an actual date on the trailer it says to

me teaser well the studio may have they well

being that it sounds like yours is a smaller

independent chain mainly because i've never heard

of them they may not care what gets put on there

so they may just throw that on there personally

i would have just um i would have appreciated

that more because the release date got changed

anyways for born legacy so Yeah. Rather than

advertise a false release date, I would rather

have seen just the coming soon. All right. All

right. But no, but my point is we didn't. Man

of Steel was not in front of Dark Knight Rises

on my showing. That's my point. They showed all

of these things that already had release dates,

whether they got pushed back or not. We saw four

trailers, and none of them was the Man of Steel

teaser. OK. What happened with the Man of Steel

teaser, and this happened at my theater too.

When you have, when there's film, the Man of

Steel would have been what's called an attached

trailer. It would have come on reel one attached

to the actual print itself. So every place where

there was film it would have had that. I don't

know if your film is digital or if it's film

or 50 -50 or what. I don't know what they use.

Anyways, how the trailer was actually released

was it came on a separate hard drive that a lot

of theaters probably didn't get until Friday.

probably sometime in the afternoon. I think you

went in the morning -ish. Oh, my time was 1 .15

in the afternoon. Yeah, they may not have gotten

it yet. And it would have been a combo trailer.

For some reason, because it was only 90 seconds

long, Water Brothers decided to make a 90 second

trailer for the campaign. And they did a combo.

campaign slash Man of Steel, and I did not know

this. I was all day Saturday, and when I was

at work, I was looking, because we didn't have

it on our prints, and I spent all day Saturday

looking for Man of Steel for it to show up either

via satellite, or if we got a hard drive, or

however it would have came to us, and never found

it until corporate projectionists said it's in

a combo with the campaign, and I was like, fuck,

there it is. And they may not care Yeah, you

know they they may not I don't know it was just

one of those like normally I don't Especially

this late in the summer I don't give a shit half

the time of what's coming up for Christmas because

normally it's You know crappy comedies that I

can wait for red box or it's you know James Bond's

that I don't give a shit to see because I hate

the fucking actor You know At this point here

in 2012, nothing is going to kill the Dark Knight

Rises at the theater. I think The Hobbit stands

a chance. Is The Hobbit coming out this year?

Yes, December. I thought it wasn't coming out

until next year. It's two movies he's planning

on making it into three. I think the Hobbit,

with what they're doing, their Warner Brothers

is going to run away with a shit ton of money.

Well, yeah. That will probably rival the Avengers.

Yeah. And because there's two factors here, well,

actually kind of three. You'll have your, sorry,

four. You'll have your traditional 2D prints.

Right. You'll have it in IMAX 3D. Yeah. You will

have a 3D ticket price. Then there's a fourth

version, which is something new that the studio,

that James Cameron and Peter Jackson think is

like the second coming of cinema, which is...

5D? 6D? No, no, no. It's a video shot at 48 frames

per second. It's supposed to add a clarity and

reduce eye strain while watching 3D movies. But

overall, it brings... I don't know if anybody

has ever been to like... I won't bury you. I've

heard enough members of the Wayne family. You

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