Hackers Commentary Review

Hello and welcome to the 20th episode of the

MWIRE movie we can review. Today we are going

to be doing something a little different. This

will be our very first ever DVD commentary episode.

I'm your host TFG1Mike and making his podcasting

debut is Thorzine. Hello. Hello. Now, why do

you have a nickname after a, uh, after a drug?

It's a long story. I was looking for something

unique. I got tired of my username getting taken

on every website I went to. I kind of went with

Thorazine, and I had a belief speak to it. Since

then, I've never had a problem with my username

being taken. Well, yeah, I would assume so. I've

only ever run into one other Thorazine, and it

was on a DVD form. Yeah, the 20th episode was

originally going to be Masters of the Universe,

but seeing as how I couldn't get it on DVD in

time for this recording, we've had to move some

stuff around. So we are going to be doing a commentary

on Hackers today. It's going into a little information

about the film before we start the commentary.

Hackers is a 1995 American thriller film directed

by Ian Softly and starring Angelina Jolie, Johnny

Lee Miller, Matthew Lillard. The screenplay written

by Raphael Marou is highly influenced by the

hacker and cyberpunk subcultures. The film follows

the exploits of a group of gifted high school

hackers and their involvement in a covert extortion

conspiracy. I gotta say that the casting for

this was just great. You couldn't get any other

people to play these roles. This is actually

one of, I think, if not the first role. It was

the first major film to star a future Academy

Award winner, Angelina Jolie, and also helped

launch the career of Matthew Lillard. Now that's

pretty cool. What'd you say? I'm sorry, you were

cutting out there. That agreed. Sorry. It's Skype.

We always blame Skype for cutouts. Now, Hackers

was actually the first major film to star, future

Academy Award winner Angelina Jolie, and also

helped launch the career of Matthew Willard,

which the casting for this is just phenomenal.

You couldn't get any other people to play these

roles. Yeah. It was definitely some good casting

on their part. Yes, very much so. As far as a

little bit of production notes here, the school

scenes are filmed in Students' Stunt High School,

I think that's how it's pronounced, and the surrounding

area in the Tribeca neighborhood of Manhattan.

So that's kind of cool for a film that came out

in 1995 to be able to be filmed actually in New

York. It's very expensive to film there, so that's

pretty cool. Yeah, a lot of filmmakers try to

film up in Canada and pass it off as being an

American city. It's kind of cool to actually

do a film in New York. Yes. The film quotes the

hackers, or the hacker manifold, written by Lloyd

Blankenship, is that a relative? Also known as

the Mentor, from Frac Magazine issue 07, file

3, and I say 6. In the film, the character reading

The Manifesto was holding a copy of 2600 magazine.

So that's just a little bit of trivia for you

guys. So I think the soundtrack, this film had

a really cool soundtrack for the actual film.

There was two volumes released after the original

soundtrack was out, which is music inspired by

the film. I'm not one to really go for additional

soundtracks if it's the actual you know songs

that are in the film you know I I I do like that

stuff and I think this film does have a an excellent

soundtrack to it but yeah the other ones nah

so I guess what were you going to say? no good

no no I had something that just kind of popped

out of my head That happens to me a lot sometimes.

I'm at the end of my work right here, so I'm

trying to run about. No, that's fine. So we will

be right back with the commentary. Hidden beneath

the world we know is the world they inhabit.

What are you doing? I'm taking over a TV network.

Finish up, honey, and get to sleep. They're hackers.

Hackers penetrate and ravage private and publicly

owned computer systems. Hack the planet. Hack

the planet! It's not just something they do.

Sure this sweet machine's not going to waste.

Are you challenging me? It's who they are. I

win, you wear a dress on our date. And if I win,

so do you. They can crack any code. And get inside

any system. Hello? Mr. Gill, according to our

records, you're dead. I'm what? But this time...

Come here, look at this. It's some kind of virus.

Unless five million dollars is transferred to

the following account, I will capsize five oil

tankers. They just hacked the wrong guy. The

game's over. Whoever wrote this needs somebody

to take the fall. He's about to commit the perfect

computer crime. You've created a virus that's

gonna cause a worldwide disaster. And they're

about to take the blame. A hacker planted the

virus. It's the perfect cover. What are you doing?

We're being framed. Can we be allies? I don't

play well with others. Oh, wow, we are fried.

Okay, let's nail it. No, you're not good enough

to be me. Yeah, maybe I'm not, but we are. They're

the only ones who can prevent a catastrophe.

I know how to stop this guy. They'll trace you

like that. Are you nuts? Come at me! Unlike any,

the world has ever seen. Never send a boy to

do a woman's job. Hackers of the world unite.

Cops on the building. I need more time. This

is the end, my friend. United Artists welcomes

you to the new world. we are back and as i said

in the intro we're going to be doing a commentary

on the nineteen ninety five computer movie hackers

uh... it's funny i remember this movie when it

first came out uh... to be It was billed as the

rival of the Sandra Bullock film The Net. And

apparently, even though I like both of them,

this one actually won out. It was the better

film out of the two. Do you have your DVD player

or whatever you're going to watch this on, do

you have it ready? Yeah, I'm all ready to go.

Okay, I have mine on the main menu and I'm hitting

play right now. And this is actually one of the

few films that goes straight into the United

Artists logo. Normally films nowadays will have

like the blue PG -13 or R rated or you know whatever

thing and then it'll go into the into the logo.

I don't think I saw this in theaters, did you?

No, I actually had not heard of this movie until...

I don't want to say here recently, but I want

to say it was early 2000s. I was going to say,

it couldn't have been too recent since you heard

of it, because when I had mentioned doing a commentary

about it, you said, oh, I love that film. That's

one of my favorite films. I stumbled across it

on accident from the first time I watched it.

I loved it. I think my favorite thing about it

is the fact that they took so many things from

stereotypical geek culture and made these geeks

so cool and still incorporated a lot of the typical

geek things. They make the transformer references

pretty accurate with some of the technical terms

and stuff. off the wall for anybody who's actually

into computers, but you know that? That's one

thing we're going to have to put to bed. I mean,

these beginning scenes, I really like how they

slow down the scenery behind it. Right now we're

in the courtroom, but before this, as the film

opened, it's SWAT teams approaching a house and

they're going to bust this kid, Dave Murphy,

who apparently did this massive, massive hack.

And I like the way that the film slowed everything

down. It slowed the tone of the music down. It

was almost like it was in slow motion. And then

we, you know, get into the courtroom scene. You

know, that's one thing we're going to have to

put to bed right now. This is supposed to be

a movie. You're supposed to be able to enjoy

it. And I don't think you would have been able

to enjoy it unless these... these intros or these

opening credits with the digital computer and

you know like you're traveling in you wouldn't

get the same feeling if you didn't have that

yeah yeah it is kind of you know that's not really

how it is and that's one you know we all know

that's not how it is but again it's a movie enjoy

yeah it's hard to make a Make a movie about a

guy sitting in front of a computer typing, interesting

without the visualization. Oh yeah, and the visualizations

are great. And you know, right from the beginning,

music really, really gets you because it's just

like soft in the background and then it comes

up as it goes along. One of the things I find

interesting about the movie is actually the main

character was based on a real person. Robert

Morris actually wrote a worm and it accidentally

crashed quite a few computers. I like how this...

No, go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say, I

like how this film starts out, because a lot

of films nowadays, when stuff like this happens,

you'll have it like right in the middle of the

action, and then they'll do a flashback. I like

how this flashes forward. From 1988 to 1995.

Yeah, I kind of enjoy the slow progression. There's

something they don't do too often, and I don't

know. I could grab you right off the whip and

then explain the backstory later on. Yeah. Here

we go with Dave turning 18, finally getting legal

to be able to be on the computer. Yep. Taking

over a TV network. Any better from accounting

that's messed up Oh boy BLT drive that doesn't

exist I love the social engineering aspect there,

you know a lot of hacking Wasn't always as high

-tech as people think it is. Yeah. Used to make

a phone call, lie about who you are, and get

people to give over information that you needed.

Yeah. Yeah. My BLT drive and, you know, if I

don't get this report in by Monday, Mr. Kawasaki

is going to carry carry on. Yeah, it's just a

whole bunch of cultural references at the time.

And again with the visuals, showing the different

images through his mind is how he sees them.

It is very cool. Get a job! I don't remember

what that show is, but that show that he actually

catches a clip of. I remember seeing that on

TV when I was younger. Oh really? It's weird

some of the stuff you pick up in the background

of movies. Yeah, America something. I missed

it on the tape. And this, you know, obviously

nowadays is a real testament to old school TV

stations. I mean, I'm sure TV stations now still

have probably the same system, but... You would

think that they would have upgraded between then

and now, especially with DVR and all that other

stuff, but I think they do still use videotapes

in television stations for the overnight programming.

And of course as soon as I see that I I Caught

the moniker as soon as I saw that before it was

pointed out later later on Yeah Yeah moniker

yeah the crash and burn for oh, yeah And of course

the techno The techno music that's in the film

actually comes up and, you know, you have this

automated VHS machine going for a war for this

one tape. I gotta say one of my favorite things

about this scene is the splicing into the different

fighting scenes. Oh yeah. Kind of give a visualization

of, you know, hackers have a tendency of calling

themselves ninjas. Two ninjas, two warriors doing

battle. Cyber safe. You are terminated. Shit

on me. I could never live in New York. Never.

I went there one time about a year or two ago

for an indie movie premiere that I got invited

to. It was the worst experience of my life. They

had to be all of 100 degrees out, you know, traffic

was at a dead stand still, no air conditioner

in my car. Yeah, I just, I mean, just looking

at the apartment that they have, I could never

live in New York. Regardless, New York is just

the size of the apartments, and I bet you that

that place costs like maybe a thousand dollars

a month. Oh, easy, easy in New York. Yeah. I'm

still a virgin. And I don't think that's a two

-bedroom place either. I think that's a one -bedroom

because she was sleeping on the couch in a scene

later. Yeah, I was gonna say I think in a later

scene that she was sleeping on the couch and

he covers her up with a blanket or something.

It just gives you an idea of how expensive it

is to live in New York. Oh yeah. Apparently he

is a genius and apparently if he doesn't screw

up he can get into college and get a good education

and all that stuff, which is great. They actually

have a college for hackers or computer people

inside of technical mumbo jumbo bullcrap. Back

when this was filmed though, the hacker with

the cyberpunk subculture was kind of an enigma

to the mainstream. I think they did a decent

job of portraying it in a positive manner. Oh

yeah, very much so. I mean, there's two completely

different contrasts in this film. You have the

hackers who... They are kind of, you know, breaking

the law, but I mean, they're not doing it to

hurt anybody compared to what, what's his name,

the Plague's character does, or Fisher Stevens'

character does, The Plague, where he wants to,

you know, capsize tankers and crap like that.

That's something that was kind of unique to the

hacker culture, you know, back in the early days.

It was more about, I want to do this just to

see If I can do it, it wasn't to cause harm to

other people's computers. Right, exactly. The

negative influence came when people started realizing

they could monetize some of these exploits. You

get your botnet now where they zombie out so

many machines and they can be used to send all

that spam. Back in the early days, it wasn't

quite like that. Of course, we have Angelina

Jolie with the lips and without the breasts,

all before she got the implants. Before her royal

days of being known as Brad Pitt Jr., or Mrs.

Brad Pitt, or whatever you want to call her.

I don't think I ever got caught into a trap like

that. I don't think I did ever so extreme. I

can remember back in high school, junior high,

moving around being the new kid and falling for

plenty of jokes there. Yeah. And of course, the

big turnaround at the end of the film is they

do find a pool on the roof. One of the rooftops.

You know at first his his visualization of my

god. I'm gonna jump your bones, and now it's

like holy crap I want to kill this bitch The

payback that he gets on her is there's almost

poetic oh, yeah She makes them stand out in the

rain, so he brings the ring to her inside the

building. Oh, yeah What the hell is going on?

Who on the roof? Yeah, the dancer skeletons throw

me off every time. Yeah. The character kind of

makes you wonder, I mean, as far as, like I don't

want to offend anybody with like the character's

sexuality. I mean you have two, two skeletons

kind of quasi -humping on the screen. It's actually

very funny. I don't know if they were dating

during filming or during the making of the movie,

but Johnny Lee Miller and Angelina Jolie did

go out for a while, either right before or after

this was released. And that's why I think they

have such good chemistry in this film, is because

I believe that they were dating. Oh boy, here

comes the moron. Old Joey, boy meets world. He

does a good job of playing that role so that

the audience has someone for them to explain

everything to so they can follow along. Yeah,

he pretty much plays the needing exposition role.

Yeah, that's the terminology I was looking for.

Enter the live -action Shaggy Rogers. Before

he craves. This is Duke's album. Do you get this

in stores? Those are the kind of mixes that I...

I guess only a pirate could put together. Oh

yeah. If that actually does work. Yeah, there

are several little hacks like that that I found

that are actually kind of cool to work that are

kind of simple. I never tried the phone thing,

but there was some other things that some friends

told me about. They said work. This game was

like a working demo or a working template for

Wipeout. I believe the information that I got

is what it said. I think that's what it was.

I know the first time I watched it, it looked

really familiar, but I couldn't place it. I'm

trying to figure out what song like as he steps

up and starts playing I know one of the lyrics

is razor of love But I know that's not the actual

title of the song and I know it's actually on

the soundtrack, but I'm gonna have to figure

out which one it is Because I really like that

song and I'm not really that big into techno

This is another one of those scenes where it

immerses you into his mindset and the way he

views things as you're watching him play the

game. I'd like how... I guess the stereotype

used to be true, but if you were a computer geek

you used to be into video games and be a big

gamer too. But, you know, as computers have become

more mainstream, there's not quite that generality

anymore. Kind of looking back on it now, it seems

kind of... I want to say like they lumped everything

together. knowing how things were back then.

I was a geek and I was a gamer. Nowadays the

video game industry like the console industry

and the PC part of it they're pretty much at

war because every person that I talk to that

either has an Xbox or has a PS3 or PS2 or whatever

they prefer playing games on those rather than

PC whereas For some games, I prefer playing on

the PC like Need for Speed games. I prefer playing

those on PC because I think that's what they

were made for. But some people prefer using the

PlayStation or Xbox or whatever you want to use,

which is more than fine. I never quite got into

the PC game and I always used the PlayStation

with Xbox, like Nintendo, Super Nintendo. I actually

have a top -loading Super Nintendo Nintendo system

in front of my TV here. I've got Super Mario

all -stars in it right now The new test time

here we go he says such a sour disposition when

she comes up to him look week she's like i will

burn you in the hill I actually like the guy

that plays the teacher in this scene. I've never

really paid much attention to him. The only reason

why I have is because I've seen this film so

much. I mean just over time of having it. And

then of course of all the things I missed I miss

my mind the most. Who are you? It's on my list.

Now you know a teacher would never let any student

climb over the desk and grab something out of

the teacher's hand. i love that joke because

i can remember being in high school or junior

high and cutting class and actually going and

hanging out in other classes with friends so

we could bullshit New York no grass You can you

can tell right after if he's not happy about

having to move from Seattle Suppose it's suburban

setting to urban New York. Yeah Or rural setting

I guess Well, I mean the suburbs of Seattle compared

to pretty much downtown New York or Manhattan

or whatever you know it's not exactly exactly

an easy change it's definitely culture shock

oh I can remember moving around like when I was

younger just not even such extreme changes in

the amount of culture cultural differences was

almost impossible to comprehend I guess at that

age It's amazing most books actually exist, you

know I would say the same thing. I think it's

cool that they took the time to actually get

Get the references right and quote the right

books And this just goes to show you how stupid

the Joey character is or he's just Messing around

in some computer. He finally he's out. It's a

bank He plays the typical I guess what you would

The modern -day equivalent I guess would be scripted

just somebody looking to do something because

I think it's cool that don't understand right?

Like the full functionality of everything You

just want the bread and eggs. You're wearing

your braids in your ass? Oh, it's funny that

Nowadays, you couldn't use any of those passwords.

No, they're too short. They don't have any new

moves in them. But I mean if you think about

it, the three -digit password even like God,

you know, that would be extreme. There are only

a few three -syllable or three -letter words

in the English language, in the English dictionary.

So you'd think that that would be fairly a good

password, a good strong password, because not

a lot of people are going to guess that. I think

where the problem is with the length is you get

You get people to run like the brute force attacks.

Yeah, yeah. And only having three digits is relatively

simple for a program to get that password real

quick. Yeah, that's true. We'll just try, systematically

try every possible letter number combination.

Yeah. I find it funny when the password was entered,

it actually showed it on the screen. I mean I

understand that's part of the plot of the film

because eventually it's revealed that the Lorraine

Bracco character, that's her password, but again

the visuals for this are really... I like how

they pan out of the actual computer and show

it on his monitor. Yeah. I was half expecting

Teller to be one of these silent guards or something.

I gotta say, the first time I watched it, that

really threw me off when I seen him sitting there.

Yeah, when you see Penn. I did one of them double

pictures. Is that really him? Yeah, I did too

when I first, I very first saw it back in the

movies, but after just looking at it and hearing

the voice, yeah, that's Penn. That's the kind

of movie I would associate with him as a performer.

But I mean he plays a very minor role. So yeah,

I mean, you know, it's like You know, it's almost

a Little bit more than cameo, but not not quite

supporting character. I don't think yeah No,

he's not a support yet. It's it's more of a cameo

for him than anything else Because he's only

in I think Three scenes Yeah, the one that the

one that just showed and the The one now where

Fisher Stevens who plays Eugene Belford the plague

and then at the end he pen is shown again That

looks cool What I wouldn't give if I had a computer

monitor system that big. Oh yeah! I've actually

thought of... I have a 32 inch HD LCD TV. I've

actually thought about hooking it up to my computer,

but I don't have the correct graphics card to

do that. That's right. Earlier this summer I

had an old base box. I wanted to put a boxy on

there and run it to my big screen. 52 or 57 inch

big screen And I for the life. We couldn't find

the right the right adapter to get in a problem

Yeah Well God that would scare anybody Jesus

Christ green mud mask Done oh You're not supposed

to do that Now, normally if that happened, normally

the computer, there would be something wrong

with it once you reboot it. And the file, even

a partial file, I don't think you'd be able to

open. But again, it's plot for the film. It's

kind of the center of the story, so I guess you've

got to give it a little bit of liberty. We didn't

really comment on the names earlier, Serial Killer.

Serial as in Fruit Loops. I love the scene where

Nikon's first scene, the first time I watched

it, he seemed like such an ominous character.

And then he just busts out with the kung fu.

Your mom buy you a pewter for Christmas? If you're

watching the intro, you're like, oh man, he's

hardcore, he's hardcore, he's gonna be a hard

ass again? Oh boy. Here comes the giant purple

elephant in the room for the entire film. Chilled

Cola, I could never drink that crap. You know,

I... I have never tried Chilled Cola. Donut.

There used to be a... I don't know how it was

everywhere, but where I lived, you had to be

18 to buy it. Every time I was old enough to

buy it, it kind of fizzled out and not been anything

anymore. Yeah. Yeah. After manifesto reference

there. Yeah This is a pain phone don't ask I

like that Well Wild child what is it with these

filmmakers that did this film that want to show

like people in the shower and shit Kids in the

shower It's a little uneasy when they show people

that they're supposed to be underage. It's funny

when I was looking at the cast, I never knew

this, but the geek agent, the guy in the black

hair there that's talking to Gil, you know who

this is? That's Mark Anthony. He's a really good

singer. So familiar, but I was never able to

put a name on his face I would have to let me

look it up really quick and make sure that it

is actually the actual singer, but I did see

in the cast The casting on the wiki information

got that it it said it was Mark Anthony But I'm

not sure if it's actually the singer or not It's

spelled the same way, so hopefully... Oh, there

it goes. Dr. Melfi, before she was Dr. Melfi.

So you keep beating me to the punch on the character

name. I'll shut up. I'm one of those guys, she

always gets me because I'm one of those guys

that never associate characters with the actor's

actual name. It is the singer that's married

to Jennifer Lopez played agent ray Da Vinci virus.

How unoriginal. I don't think I noticed, I watched

this a little bit earlier to kind of refresh

myself. Yeah. On the scene where he goes to execute,

execute the virus, I never noticed that it was

actually the Da Vinci face that would either

give the option to run or cancel ideas, or whatever

the two options were. And of course these big

corporate types are, you know, giant pushovers

and leave it all in the hands of the people that

are actually behind this game. I don't know if

the microphone picked it up or not, but I was

at the vending machine. I was explaining what

the noise was. Are you still at work? Yeah, I'm

actually at my office. Oh, okay. Well, that's

cool. Explained to my lack of internet connection

right now. Oh, boy. I think I have the last place

in the world to have internet access. uh... twin

towers it's always nice to go back and i mean

i you know i understand and i'm not going to

really try to turn this into a whole nine eleven

thing but you know It's always nice to see them

in movies before 9 -11 happened, I think. It's

nice to see what they looked like before they

were gone. Yeah. Despite the tragedy that surrounds

them, it's kind of a cool marker that can give

you a time frame of when the movie was shot or

what time in history the movie came from. There's

a really really good shot of the Twin Towers

in Armageddon at one point Of course, that's

a whole other episode It's commie bullshit. Even

in the 90s, and even nowadays, everything can

be still blamed on communists. I think that scene

does a lot to kind of draw the distinction between

the two generations, you know. You have the older

ages, they don't all have to commie bullshit.

It kind of represents the old garden and the

younger guy, Mark Anthony Perry, who probably

doesn't remember his name. Oh, that's cool. That's

kind of the generational divide between the older

generation and the newer generation. The younger

generation is starting to come to age. Oh boy.

I have to say, I love this virtual reality setup

he's got. He's so dated for the time of what

they thought things were going to be and how

it never quite panned out to be that way. You

can tell that he is a very online type of person.

He's like, ugh, hard copy. I wonder now, I can

remember the standard punishment for a computer

crime way back when it used to be you couldn't

touch a computer for ten years, you couldn't

even touch a touch -tone phone for ten years.

And the thinking behind that was, by the time

ten years passed, the information you had would

be too outdated to do any damage. I wonder if

they still hand that kind of punishment out.

It is almost impossible not to use a touch -tone

phone anymore. or even a computer. Yeah, I'm

not sure really. I know Kevin Mitnick up until

a couple years ago wasn't allowed to use even

a computer to type. He wrote his Art of Deception

and the Art of Intrusion on an old -fashioned

typewriter I believe. after he had gotten unapproved.

Don't quote me after that. I can't say for sure,

but I know he had a hassle trying to write it

because he couldn't use a computer. I think now

it's probably more of you have to pay a fine

and you have to go to jail for a number of years

more than not being able to use those things.

And of course nowadays Jail at all the it all

depends on what prison you go to but I mean hell

prisons have libraries libraries have computers

So that's I don't know I guess when even the

state of nothing is political Like to pay for

that can stuff I guess punishment for computer

crimes a lot more harsh than it was back then

to Thinking about it now Just the bluntness right

there, just, blow me. Yeah. I like it for, I

mean, that simple statement, obscene, yeah, but

it's kind of the blunt thing that most teenagers

would say rather than like how you always try

to come up with a snappy comeback. Yeah. but

here we go party time And of course throughout

the entire time that we that crash knows or that

the date knows Kate he doesn't know who her Altar

is as far as being acid -burned and of course

it'll come out later in that scene Because we're

at the party at her house now I think it's kind

of cool like online they're kind of rivals, not

knowing each other in real life. But then when

they meet in real life they kind of end up being

kind of rivals too. Oh yeah. I think they're

not rivals, just kind of each other's antagonists.

Oh yeah. It's a curse. How do you know my name?

Up, up, look. Before the scene changes, you have...

What's his name agent ray at the party I? Never

I never even noticed him in there. Yeah, if you

go obviously we can't do it as we're doing the

commentary, but if you go back The guy right

before the scene changes with the giant black

sunglasses he cut As you said that I I can remember

seeing him there, but I never put it together

as I was watching it. Yeah Yeah, I'm not an addict

I got in trouble with my computer I Can I get

more coffee and cigarettes? Wanted to have my

children. I like looking at a lot of the old

computer I was wearing. Yeah, oh yeah. Some of

the references and it kind of makes you appreciate

what we have now. I got a 28 .8 BPS modem. Yes.

Now I can remember getting online, it dropped

56k, it was fast. You know, back in the old days

of Napster's first incarnation, after that whatever,

Pirate in the music or anything or they ever

have but They don't always listen about his connection.

You have 28 .8. You got the 56k in the ISVM I

can remember drooling over the like t1 and the

t3 and the t3 connections Yeah transformers reference

Lippard boy and the Decepticons uh... uh... uh...

It's actually kind of scary what he's doing,

you know. And given the time frame, it wasn't

that unfeasible, is the word I'm looking for.

Yeah, no, I know. But I mean, not really what

he's doing, but the information as far as the

exposition of what he's doing is very scary.

The fact that the FBI has information on 20 million

Americans. And I'm sure now, obviously, nowadays

in 2009, that's grown considerably. Post 9 -11,

that number's kind of small, but yeah, looking

back in 1995. Yeah. I don't know about you, but

I don't know if I'd be that cool about walking

into my room and finding somebody else playing

on my laptop. No. No one switches my computer

but me. It's like when I was having internet

trouble a couple months ago. We need to log on

to your computer. Just tell me where to go. Yeah,

no. Alright, what the hell is risk architecture?

You know, I used to know, and I've fallen into

that group of stuff that I've long since forgotten.

You know, in my younger days, I used to know

everybody wanted to be a hacker. Yeah. You know,

when the internet first grew up. You know, I

knew the way to go out and learn all this stuff.

You know, now that I'm a little bit older. The

the rift doesn't justify Just if I do a lot of

the stuff dude, yeah Well, if anybody out there

who is listening to this knows what it is you

can email me at TF join podcast at gmail .com

Now this is where the comedy kicks in. People

actually used to do this too. I was going to

say, my first laptop, because of this movie,

I took apart and I actually did a nice custom

paint job on it. Of course now you don't really

have to do that because you can pretty much buy

them custom color. Yeah. It was nice in the old

days to have something stand out. I can remember

going to a Linux convention and reading out just

the typical black or silver laptop and I pulled

mine out to take notes and kind of getting the

head turns or checking out the details and everything

on my laptop. I watched a thing, I don't remember

where it was, it was probably on YouTube or something,

I watched a thing about QuakeCon, the Quake convention,

the Quake video game convention for PCs. Where

people actually take their... I think they only

have to take their towers, but they may take

their entire whole systems. And fly them out

to wherever the quake con is. I think it's I

think it's either in Texas or California I forget

every year and it's like all these like Alienware

ones and a whole bunch of different custom, you

know cased Towers and everything else and I thought

that was always really cool Yeah I can remember

like when online gaming was not good. It's not

big now, but it was kind of like the the rage.

Yeah, you know there were computer places around

here that would host land parties and you'd walk

in and everybody's got their pimped out towers.

This is my favorite line coming up right here.

I'll spank yo ass. And the look here, the plague

in the background, the look that the plague gives

him as he says that just kind of cements it.

Now how the hell, again it is a film and I'm

not trying to nitpick, but how the hell did they

get onto this rooftop? I mean really? Oh isn't

this where they, yeah this is where they make

him dead I think. i don't know this is the i'd

like to get that yet with the tickets and come

up with you know i am do you know i am uh...

i like how freak is just constantly looking around

making it's almost like he's a look at Deceased

I'm dead Superhero like even Yes snaggle puts

reference there, you know I guess for those younger

kids that aren't going to get the reference.

Now going back to that last scene where they

were hassling Agent Gil. That scene where he

risks him on the personal ad. I can remember

being younger and doing something like that to

somebody. I mean, not quite as intricate as they

did. I just, you know, placed their information

looking for some odd sexual favors and personal

eds. Yeah. Oh, God. Meh. I remember those two

scenes the scene where the one that's on now

with her having the weird dream about him in

the dress and the one earlier of her coming in

and basically just jumping his bones in the police

take I remember I was very confused about those

until the end where they say you know have you

been having weird dreams lately he's receiving

a package I like how one of the liberties they

take, especially like in this scene, is this

is obviously mid -90s. I might be mistaken, but

I don't think Wi -Fi was available at that point.

If it was, it obviously wasn't as mainstream

as it is now. We can just open up the computer

and he's receiving files and he's getting messages.

Well, you know the only way I could explain this

away about about plague being on there as a video

message whether it's live or not is If it was

a cuz plague sent him the computer if it was

a video recorded message But then again how common

were were bit were webcams back in 1995 so that's

the other thing yeah webcams I don't think hit

until like late 98 early 99 Yeah. It's cool to

look back at some of these movies that were obviously,

I don't want to say pre -Internet Revolution,

but early internet days. Some of the stuff that

they just put in the movies, how it has kind

of come to be, just things that they thought

would be cool at that time, actually did come

around to be invented or become commonplace.

Yeah. Like Wi -Fi video webcam right, right?

See, I saw Agent Ray at first. I didn't see the

other guy at first. I just saw the woman that

was sitting between them. I never put together

the other guy until I saw them hold the camera

over their shoulder like that. Yeah. How many

kids have a balcony across their, you know, in

their bed thing? I'm watching you, you, you.

Deja vu. I love this because that would have

been my mom's exact reaction. Wait for it, he'll

arrest me. This is so funny. Click, click, click,

click, click. There's another thing that actually

used to work. I don't know if it still does now,

but if you just repeatedly click the hang up

mechanism on the phone that used to bring up

the operator. It's in that place where I put

that thing that time. I don't want to know what

that thing was. Obviously, we know what the place

is, but I don't want to know it. Given where

he hit it, it kind of makes you wonder, but it

kind of makes you uneasy to wonder at the same

time. Exactly. I thought these guys were surprised

to see her walk out of... I'm assuming it was

a men's room. But none of them seemed to be surprised

as she was actually already there. It wasn't

till she left. Yeah. Nintendo generation. Oh

duh. The thing that always gets me about that

scene is when the serial killer turns around

to stalk out of the door, he just checks that

door so hard. I don't think it was intentional.

There's a door for him. It's always those little

things like that that I catch in movies that

always stand out to me when I watch them. Like

when you're watching a comedy and you can tell

they're saying something funny and they're trying

not to laugh. Oh, yeah. A little bit more prevalent

on TV than it is in Hollywood movies. Yeah. And

I like that when the mom comes in, you guys,

listen, help yourself to whatever you want in

the fridge. Cereal has. And it's, because at

first you don't, you know, even though they explained

his name in the beginning, that it's cereal as

in Froot Loops. You still think, holy crap, he's

a serial killer, he's gonna start shooting people.

I would like to have seen the scene where he

had to introduce himself to Dave's mom. He didn't

call them serial, so he had to have said, hi,

I'm serial killer. Yeah, exactly. Dave would

have had to have said, this is my friend's serial

killer. This is that thing right there is kind

of kind of scary to me because the logic behind

it is so solid Well, yeah, I mean you can alter

any kind of I mean just look at what Dades altered,

you know He altered the class kit. He altered

the the test time for the sprinklers I mean you

you know, you can alter anything if you're if

you know where to go but Yeah, that's like I

said in the previous scene when It was play again.

What's her name? Dr. Melfi there You know what

the FBI database yeah, yeah And I say you know

for those people who are listening to this or

who will be listening to this once we put it

on it online I say dr. Melfi because at this

point in time in the film. I don't remember what

the hell or damn character is either Lorraine

Bronco who is her actual name and or Dr. Melfi

was the Tony Sopranos psychologist in The Sopranos.

Ever since I've watched The Sopranos, no matter

what I see her in, she's always Dr. Melfi to

me. Yeah. Even I think she was in a couple episodes

of Oz. See, I never got into Oz, but yeah. Not

really my thing, but it's one of those deals

where I've watched everything that was already

on demand. I'm just looking for something to

pass the night. Yeah. Yeah, this has to be the

slowest scene in the entire film. Just the whole

waiting game. I like how he makes his entrance

here, too. On a skateboard, on the side of a

limo. I gotta say, this is the one scene that

doesn't work for me at all. No, it doesn't. Not

at all. I mean, I understand they had to have

it because of, you know, Dade saving his mom,

but... They could have done an entirely different

scene. I get that they had to make it dramatic

that he's betraying his friends, but it seems

a little too drawn out and a little too over

dramatic for what it is. And of course he doesn't

actually tell them until 14 hours later after

they've all tried to crack the code But you know

he can't fault him because he did try and they

just like hang on a second Tag you're in Of course

the date sits down to work as magic Yes. Back

to the gate vision. Yep. I actually like the

fast forward because it goes through, it's only

going through like five or six or seven hours,

but it makes it seem like they've spent days

and days on this one. It's only been about, I

would say a maximum of eight and a half, nine

hours. It does a good job of kind of portraying

to the audience the amount of time it actually

takes to do something like that without actually

having to make them sit through it. Yeah, true.

Other than just taking the easy Hollywood out,

everything just kind of clicks. Oh yeah, here's

what you were looking for. Yeah, exactly. Some

odd reason. I don't know if it's the fact that

I just got off of a Lois and Clark New Adventures

of Superman marathon DVD watch earlier this week

or what, but the speed typing, when they fast

forwarded the typing, always reminds me of how

Dean Cane's A portrayal of Clark would always

speed type in that show. Was that purely coincidence

that you made the Superman reference there and

they're using the Superman virus? Wow, I didn't

even really realize that it was Superman 2 where

it stole like a just a fraction of a penny from

each. Oh, it's Superman 3 that that happened.

Yeah, I wasn't big into the Superman movies.

That's blasphemy, but whatever. I didn't even

really realize that. I didn't even really associate

the Superman 3 fractions of a penny thing to

this film. I always associate that with obviously

office space because they directly take it from

Superman 3. You're right. Technically, that is

what it is. And then once they find out who he

really was, You know Nikon's like oh my god.

I thought she was black man And then and then

Kate of course she else and I'm all great there's

college and now they're going through the whole

thing oh if you had my help do it in five minutes

and There's no boy to do a woman's job I never

understood the let's go shopping thing until

I actually sat back and watched the scene now.

Where they're actually going dumpster diving.

Yeah. Going dumpster diving and then they actually,

is it Nikon and Serial they pass themselves off

as telephone repair men or something? I like

to give them, again, the time frame of this movie

that they actually did the dumpster diving. Now,

at that point in time for me, when I would think

about hacking, or what hacking was, I wouldn't

think of just going to people's garbage. But

you know, dumpster diving is a big thing in the

hacker community. You know, even at one of the

DEF CONs they had a Don't serve that in contest

or something. I believe a few years ago Wow Nice

missile might my subway defense system. Yeah,

I know that They're dangerous, but are they really

that dangerous where you need a mini rocket launcher?

I think a gun would actually be safer Yeah, I

So funny. I love the placement of the tool belt

in that scene. As you get down there, it kind

of flops. Not to get too sexual, but I mean it.

You see the crack of his ass because his pants

are sagging off his ass. And here you go, Nikon

with his photographic memory thing, looking at

all the keyboards. What I don't get is they're

going to work if I'm dating all his friends,

and the plague walks right by them, or skateboards

right by them, and doesn't quite place them.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I think that could

be just like a double -take or something. It's

like, I don't know, I know that kid. Like you

said, he doesn't place him, but I don't know.

Yeah, it does say launch or cancel if you look

at size on the oh, yeah Yeah, I forget what it's

called the da Vinci yeah the da Vinci bar and

drawing They snoop on to us. Yeah, that's actually

old recording tape too. Wow, that was a visual.

Oh boy. No, going back to the Realtapes, I can

remember back in junior high, taking computer

classes. This was pre -Windows. We learned computers

in DoF. Having the old Realtapes to store information

on. Thank God, I'm not a part of that era. I

was born in the 80s, so I grew up with all that

stuff, but I'm very glad that Macintosh and Windows

and all that happy stuff came along without having

to deal with DOS. I don't think I had my first

Windows experience until... Oh, God, I had this

in eighth grade, ninth grade. I moved from...

I was just taking computer class here in Ohio

and I moved down to Florida. And they had to

do graphic arts class, and they had windows on

the one computer that we had in the classroom.

They're just being blown away by not having to

type all the old documents. Yeah, exactly. I

think that was the first time I've seen a mouse.

A what? And a mouse and a CD drive. Of course,

you know, may the force be with you, man. Go

Star Wars reference. You'd actually almost have

to count films that don't have Star Wars references

more than you would than the ones that do have

Star Wars references. Because almost every film...

that I know of has at least one Star Wars reference.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm not even a Star Wars fan, and

I still dig all the Star Wars references in movies.

Even the scene when they reveal a Nikon and come

out with the obi -wankanobi cloak on. I've always

wondered who this band was. I'm not sure. They

sound a lot like Rage Against the Machine, but

I know it's not them. I don't think so. It might

be. Of course, I'm sure now it'll turn out that

it's actually them, and I'll get all these responses

on Twitter or something, calling them idiots.

I don't know, were they, had they already like,

because I've never been a really big rage against

the machine fan, but I wasn't until they were,

they actually were already broken up by the time

I started getting into rage. I don't know if

they were around back then or not. Well, I know

they were probably breaking out back then, but

what I was asking was if they were actually famous

by the time this came out. I'm not really sure.

It's a gun. I definitely don't like this. Are

they coming, beasts? It might be... Oh no, that's

during the party setting. I was going to say

it might have been protection by massive attack,

but that was way earlier in the film when they

were at the party. Another stereotypical geek

nod there with the Star Trek shirt. Yep. And

we can only guess as to which TV network it was.

It's probably fucked. I dunno, the old uh, make

every traffic light green trick or red trick.

I could've swore the first time I watched this

that he said checkmate as he was walking off.

I guess I was wrong. Green lights all the way

Boom There's a hero of the course of the movie,

but I like to blatant disregard for public safety

when they do that yeah, you know how many people

get injured or The property damage I don't understand

why he couldn't have seen through the whole,

the fact that Eugene is setting them up other

than the fact that he probably didn't want to

see through it. I guess computers were still

foreign to a lot of people too. When you had

a tech, you just kind of took them in as word.

Now it's kind of standard, but then I guess anybody

who wants to question, we have a basic understanding

of computers and a basic knowledge of what people

are capable of doing. I like seeing all the boot

ups here, that's really cool. Where's all these?

All these sheep in this office here, you know,

of course that line I just said all the sheep

that will come into play a little bit later,

I think I love all the cute little visualizations

for these viruses and stuff that they're planting.

Die, dickweed! Your boat gently down the stream.

I wonder how much money they had to pay to get

the rights for just even mentioning that. Unless

it's public domain. I don't know, they went through

that thing a couple years ago where people were

exerting copyright on the Happy Birthday song

and all that. Get the hell out the way! I always

wanted that keyboard. That was cool. The one

plague has? Yeah. Okay, let's go. I like this

kind of montage where they're showing all these

hackers from around the world. Yeah. It does

a good job of portraying that sense of unity,

you know, in a subculture, a sub -community.

Oh yeah. This circular scene showing all of them

kind of at three different angles reminds me

of the end credits of season one of the X -Men

cartoon where it's a 3D profile of the characters.

Yeah. Now, of course, now that they got their

rein, this is time to get down to business. I

don't know who. And instead of all blue now,

it's all red. Yeah, subtle little color change

there to kind of portray the change in mood.

Yep. Instead of being all blue and cool and calm,

it's red and agitated. You know those little

things going back and forth are commands going

into the computer Those little flashes of like

blue Yeah Kind of meant to give them like a visualization

of like the current running through the through

the wires and stuff I Like this here the big

reveal yeah, I think they're closing in on them.

Yep And of course they get there and it's a bunch

of phones kind of linked together. Kind of like

the early man's proxy server. Yep. But really,

of course if they wanted to stop the attack right

then and there, they could have just hung the

phones up. Yeah, true. But, you know. Smart.

Would have made for kind of a crappy ending to

a movie, though. Oh, yeah. I always wondered

if a Gibson was a real computer, or if that was

just kind of like a nod to a... Because it obviously

was kind of like a cyberpunk... oriented movie

and with William Gibson being a big author in

the cyberpunk. Yeah. I'm not sure. Like a genre

of books. Could be, I don't know. Arf, arf. Mess

with the best, die like the rest. Oh, his aunt.

I like how they always show the flash of white

as you have been terminated or disconnected or

whatever. Kind of like the mushroom cloud effect.

Not that I've ever been arrested before or anything,

but I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't

notice him throwing something in the garbage.

Yeah. Yeah, obviously... him not being there

was part of... kind of the center of the payoff

in the movie. I kind of wonder what he was doing

the whole time that everybody else was... was

doing their part in trying to hack the Gibson

there. Oh, Serial? He was getting the... He was

getting the film stuff ready. Ah. He was helping

Razor and Blade because it shows it after this.

Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah. You are

floating. I don't want to flush your ass. You're

right. According to IMDB, the computer they break

into is a fictional mainframe computer called

the Gibson, an homage to cyberpunk author William

Gibson. So it's not real. I always wondered because

the movie takes place a little bit before, I

guess, my time when I got acquainted with the

internet. I always wondered if the Gibson was

an actual supercomputer model. Whoever wrote

this movie was obviously... Not just a Hollywood

writer, but they had to have had some geek in

them. I think so. Yo. I kind of feel like God.

And I like the transition. Yeah, I kind of pulled

that away from the planet. Echo, yeah. That is

the weirdest bed I've ever seen in my entire

life, the one that she was laying in. Oh, Dr.

Mokey there? Yeah. He almost gets away too. Nice

disguise. You know the first time I watched it

I almost didn't realize who that was until they

put the handcuffs on him. I'll never fly this

airline again. Yeah Because the airline had anything

to do with it I'm sorry, but that is the one

of the ugliest dresses I have ever seen Looks

more like a leather jumpsuit than it does an

actual dress crash and burn of course they kiss

and eventually the camera will pan up or down

I wouldn't give to be him right now. Exactly.

So I believe this actually, you know, they're

still showing the pool scene a little bit. I

don't think there's any other additional scenes

after this. No, I believe it goes to my credits

here shortly. you know we will overall a really

good film for what it is i think you know there's

a few faults in it but it isn't like it's not

like one of these god -awful teen dramas that

you see nowadays and of course it is revealed

as i said before it is a pool on the roof you

know i've never really got that reference until

you blow it up their initial encounter being

the joke about a pool on the roof and then they

end up in a pool on the roof. So the credits

are rolling. We are stopping the commentary now.

Turn that off. Turn the TV off. Alright, so I

think we're going to go to a break and we're

going to come back with some final thoughts and

then the closing. We'll be right back. Thanksgiving

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back and just before we go into some final thoughts

here, I'm looking at these trivia aspects on

IMDB. One of them says, The part of Kate Acidburn

Libby was originally offered to Katherine Heigl,

but due to prior commitments to under siege to

dark territory, she had to turn it down. The

director also auditioned Hilary Swank, Heather

Graham, and Liv Tyler for the role, which ultimately

went to Angelina Jolie. As I said in the beginning,

in the intro to this episode before we actually

started the commentary, I can't see any of those

women in that role. I like Liv Tyler is about

the only one that will get my attention, but

I don't think she could have carried that role.

No, not at all. I think it would have changed

the feel of the whole movie. I don't think it

would have been better. Yeah, no. It also says

here, Edward Norton auditioned for a role. It

doesn't say which role. I'm sure he probably

auditioned for, I would say Johnny Lee Miller's

role actually. I could see him in the serial

killer, but I'd still like to guess in the big

ass for the movie. I wouldn't want it in the

other room. Stuyvesant High School prank of the

sixth floor pool. The original Stuy building

on East 15th Street in Manhattan had only five

floors and freshmen were sent to look for a pool

upstairs. The building had no pool. There was

a literary publication at Stuyvesant referencing

the prank called sixth floor pool. The school

moved to a new building featured in the movie

shortly before filming began. Coincidentally

this building is across the street from Hmm.

Very strange. So what are your final thoughts

on this film? Overall, I like it. It's in the

top of the list of my favorite Hacker movies.

Right below War Games. I don't know if The Matrix

would be good for the Hacker movies, but I like

this more than The Matrix because it's a little

bit higher on my list than that. Plus, Matrix

is more of like It's more of like religious beliefs

than it is actually a computer. I mean, yeah,

I know you get plugged in and everything else,

but It's it's more religion based or or belief

based then than actual hacking And as I said

before in the intro to this episode when this

came out The net with Sandra Bullock and I think

Dennis Miller's in that with her It also came

out, it was another hacker movie. Which I think

that, well that one's a fairly good Sandra Bullock

film. I think out of the two hackers, one in

popularity is more of a, I guess you could call

it a cult classic nowadays. It's definitely got

a subculture problem. Oh yeah. Oh yes, very much

so. Where does the net kind of get good enough?

Is this another Hollywood movie? That's kind

of the way I look at it. Yeah, yeah. So thank

you for joining us here on Movie Week in Review.

There are several ways to get in contact with

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hope you enjoyed this episode of MWire and wish

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MWire Crossover Space Jam. For now, I am TFD1

Mike with... Say any more words of Elizabeth

Shue. Don't fuck with the babysitter and thank

you for listening. Until next time.