Hulk and The Incredible Hulk Review

Hello and welcome to the 14th episode of the

MWire Movie Week in Review. Today we are going

to be discussing the Hulk and the Incredible

Hulk in our Marvel Spotlight. I am TFG1Mike and

as usual I am joined by Steve Megatron. Hello!

And along with us we have a special guest, David

Double D Dennis from This Week in Geek, which

this marks Dave's very first podcast outside

of the Twig universe. Hello, Dave. Hi, I'm finally

stepping out of my own universe. Crazy. It's

like when the Hulk fought Superman. When did

that happen? I'm not really sure. Yeah, I was

going to say. I had a co -worker that told me

about this once, and he was like, I read this

comic where Hulk fought Superman, it was really

cool. I was like, are you sure? Yeah, it was

awesome. Okay. That would have been a cool DVD

with the Hulk vs. thing, wouldn't it? Yeah, I'm

not sure if he actually was just making that

up, or... I never know. I guess I'll have to

check it out. I'll go on the internet and see

if that's actually real. Cool. So why don't you

tell us and our listeners a little bit about

yourself. I mean, we all hear you talking on

Twig every week or every two weeks or whatever

it is that you all are up to now, but who is

the real David Double D Dennis? The real David

Double D Dennis just spent the last, like, four

hours cleaning our apartment. So that shows you

how boring and down to earth I am. But, yeah,

I'm just moved out here with Mike and Stefan

trying to do our show and do our jobs at the

same time and writing stuff and being a generally

crazy guy, I guess. Speaking of crazy guy and

crazy ideas, you, I don't know, I think you put

it on Facebook or something, or I'm not sure

where you put it. You had an idea about Looney

Tunes versus Capcom. Video game, what's that

all about? Oh, yeah. Actually, Capcom was having

a contest for what should be the next Capcom

versus idea, and my idea that I posted to them,

I actually specifically made a Capcom .com account

specifically for this so that I could post my

idea of Capcom versus Looney Tunes, which I think

would be the coolest idea for a fighting game

ever. Oh, yeah. That sounds really cool. So you

could have like Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny, Tweety

Bird, all of them like fighting Ryu or Jill from

Resident Evil or whatever. It would be craziness.

Oh, wow. I can imagine Pepe Le Pew fighting Mega

Man. It's funny. Imagine your incredible fart

attacks that you can employ. Oh, yeah. The possibilities

in that game are endless. Incredible flaming

fart attacks. Yes. Oh, boy. Actually, it's funny.

My other show that I do, Steve has guested on

it once before. It's ToonCast. It's dedicated

to all the cartoons we grew up with, just basically

discussing them. And the episode that we're up

to now, coming up this Sunday, we're going to

be recording episode 20, which will actually

be discussion on the Looney Tunes. So, yep, had

to save Looney Tunes for one of those big numbered

episodes. Yeah, Steve's here as well. He's awfully

quiet. He's over there tinkering with his computer

because it broke on him, and you'll hear more

about that in Headshot. Hello, Steve. Hello again.

Yes, I am a very irritated person as of late.

Yes. I resorted to using my wife's Windows Vista

laptop, which is a little bit different for me

because I don't really care for Vista, and all

my crap is on a thumb drive, luckily. as well

as Skype. So I can't access anything on my tower

until I figure out whether it's my motherboard

or my case that's bad or some other random piece

of crap. So, yeah. And on that note, we're going

to be getting into today's topic, which is the

Hulk and the Incredible Hulk. We will be right

back. We are back, and today we're going to be

talking about both of the Marvel Hulk films.

The first one was in 2003, the second one, the

reboot, was in 2008. Hulk, also known as The

Hulk, is a 2003 superhero film based on the fictional

Marvel Comics character of the same name. Ang

Lee directed the film, which stars Eric Bana

as Dr. Bruce Banner, as well as Jennifer Connelly,

Sam Elliott, Nick Nolte, and Josh Lucas. Holy

crap, Nick Nolte was in the... Wow, I didn't

know that. I didn't remember that. I haven't

seen this film. Yeah, this is his father. Oh,

that's okay. That's right. That's right. The

film explores the origins of the Hulk, which

is mainly attributed to Banner's father experiments

on himself and on his son. Development for the

film started as far back as 1990. The film was

at one point to be directed by Joe Johnston and

then Jonathan Hensley. More scripts had been

written by Hensley. John Turman, Michael France,

Zach Penn, J .J. Abrams. J .J. Abrams wrote a

script for this film? Wow. Yeah, why didn't they

use that one? It probably would have been better

than the one that they ended up with. Yeah. Actually,

most of the scripts that came before the finished

one were probably better than the finished one

that they ended up using. Yep. And also another

name that I recognize that also wrote scripts

before the Angley and James Seamus involvement

was David Hayter, the voice of Solid Snake wrote

one. We did an interview with him for Twigs.

Yes, I would love to get an interview with him.

Oh yeah, I'd love to get an interview with him.

That would be so awesome. When I did the interview,

I didn't know that he had wrote an original.

Script for the Hulk. I just realized that today

going through the research. Really? David Hayter

did a version for this? He's written... Nothing

has really... Some of the stuff that he has written

really hasn't come to light. Obviously, this

is the Hulk version. His Hulk version didn't

come to light. But I've seen a lot of writing

credits for him that just blow my mind. And it's

stuff that we know. And we know of it is what

it is now. And it's like... wow, what would it

have been like if we had had a hater version?

Yeah, like the first two X -Men movies, which

were amazing. written basically the finished

versions of them. Yes. The film was released

with mixed reviews and was a box office disappointment.

Marvel Studios rebooted it in 2008 with The Incredible

Hulk. Hulk earned 61 .2 million in DVD sales,

bringing its total film gross to $306 ,560 ,480.

And, okay, Dave, why don't you summarize the

Hulk 2003 for us? Okay, so try and remember what

happened in this movie. I think the last time

I saw it was about a year or a couple years ago.

It was while I was in college anyways. So basically,

the whole thing has this whole flashback that

happens at the beginning where Nick Nolte's character

is doing experiments on himself. Oh man, it's

really hard for me to remember this. Somehow

it ends up like he ends up accidentally killing

his own wife and then basically flash forward

to the future where Bruce Banner, his son, doesn't

really remember anything about him or his past

and is working with Jennifer Connelly who plays

Betty Ross. I think they're ex -boyfriend and

girlfriend in this one, and basically, like I

said, it's really hard for me to remember this.

He ends up doing an experiment on himself or

something that, combined with what had happened

to him with his childhood, ends up making him

into the Hulk, because the same experiment had

ended up killing all the animals that they did

with testing on it. Right, right. And then basically

his father reappears and decides to use the same

kind of gamma radiation to turn random mutant

dogs. And there's these giant like poodles that

fight against him, which is probably the weirdest

thing I've ever seen in a superhero movie. And

then, so he fights the giant poodles, he gets

captured by the army, and then there's a really

awesome fight scene where he's fighting all these,

like, tanks and helicopters and everything, which

probably, in my opinion, is, like, the best part

of the movie. Yeah. And then his father, who

has returned, basically experiments on himself

again, turns himself into Absorbing Man, who

can, whose powers are kind of cool, but... they're

kind of stupid in the context of the film. Basically,

he can take on the properties of whatever he

touches. Right. So at one point, I think he kills

a guy by, like, turning his foot into, like,

a floor grate, which is just kind of retarded.

And, uh... So basically, they end up fighting

each other at the end. Both of them are presumed

dead, and then it kind of shows the Hulk in South

America. He's still alive, and he's kind of working

as a doctor down there. Yeah, I remember... That's

the main bit of what I remember about it. Oh,

yeah. The plot for this movie is so convoluted,

it's hard to recall everything. Oh, yeah. I completely

agree. And I remember that actual... that, that

final scene, the South American scene, when,

uh, he had mentioned something, uh, he, uh, Bruce

says something to one of the guys that, that's

talking to him or whatever. He's like, you don't

want to see me angry or whatever. And it's like,

I think that was probably the best part about

this film was the way it ended. You don't want

to see me angry. And it just leaves you off as

a cliffhanger. Like, Oh wow. The Hulk could be

back, you know? Um, yeah. Jennifer Connelly's

performance as Betty Ross, I liked it. I think

I enjoyed it better than What's Her Name in the

new one. Liv Tyler? Yeah, I like Liv Tyler. Liv

Tyler's a great actress, but I don't think...

I think they should have brought Jennifer Connelly

back for the Betty Ross role. I agree with you.

I think Liv Tyler was really the only thing I

didn't like about the new version compared to

the old version. I thought Jennifer Connelly

was the only character who kind of got it right

in the first movie. And her acting was probably

the best thing about this movie because she played

Betty Ross just right, like where she was kind

of calm, but there was kind of a dark side to

her at the same time. Whereas Liv Tyler was just

a bit too, I don't want to say ditzy, but she

didn't really have the edge, I guess, that Jennifer

Connelly did. Yeah, no, I mean, I agree with

you. She didn't at all really have the edge that

Connelly did. Not, yeah, I don't know. Like I

said, I like Liv Tyler and other things, but

a superhero movie... I don't know. She's just

not the right type of actress for a superhero

film. Yeah, yeah. And as I said before, you have

a pretty awesome cast in this. Eric Bana, Jennifer

Connelly, Sam Elliott, Nick Nolte, Josh Lucas.

just great, great casting for the characters

that they had to play with. For some odd reason,

I always think of this movie, and I always compare

it to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, because

obviously they're both Ang Lee films, and every

time I see any part of the 2003 film, the only

part I end up catching is Hulk leaping through

the desert, and for some odd reason, I just think

it's nothing but a Marvel version of Crouching

Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I don't know why. Yeah,

yeah, it's kind of similar how he's jumping around.

But like I said, that's probably my favorite

part of the movie is when he's fighting in the

desert. Right. It's like the only really, really

cool part of the movie. Like, if you're going

to watch this movie, just skip everything else,

just watch that scene. Because it's the only

part that's worth it. The rest of the movie,

it has, like, it had such a good cast and a good

director. The problem was the script had gone

through so many versions that by the time it

got made, it was convoluted, it had major pacing

issues, and it just wasn't interesting. And one

of the main problems was that the Hulk was not

a hero in this movie. He doesn't really save

anyone, he doesn't really help anyone, he's just

running for his life the whole time. I mean,

the only part he does anything heroic is when

he's fighting the giant mutant dogs. And again,

that was kind of stupid. Yeah, it was. And when

they had the release of the DVD and they said,

oh, you're going to get like a multi -angle look

at the dog fighting scene. And when I hear dog

fighting, what I think of is like air dog fighting,

like airplanes having a dog fight in the air.

I don't think of a giant green dude fighting,

you know, oversized poodles. Yeah. You think

with the script going through so many different

versions that stuff like that, do you really

need to have giant dogs fighting the Hulk in

the finished versions of the script? I don't

know what they were thinking when they decided,

okay, this is the version that we're going to

make and all the other versions before that we

couldn't make them. Why? It just doesn't make

sense to me. Which is why Hollywood will always

elude me. Other than the fact that the price

of admission is too much. Yeah. Depending on

where you live, anyway. Well, okay, Mr. Michigan

Next Movie Star. Yeah. Numbnuts over here got

acting classes or whatever. He's got himself

offered acting classes from Michigan's Next Movie

Star. So, yeah. The true Hollywood in California.

The price is way too high. As far as the release

for this, Universal Pictures spent $2 .1 million

to market the film in 30 -second TV spots during

Super Bowl XXXII. Wow. You can vaguely remember

that, actually. That's too much money. Sorry.

For as bad as this film is outside of the action

scenes, that's too much money. Just weeks before

the film's release, a number of work prints were

leaked on the internet. The visual and special

effects were already being criticized, despite

the fact that it was not the final editing cut

of the film. Hulk was released on June 20, 2003,

earning $62 .1 million in its opening weekend,

which made it the 16th highest ever opener at

the time. With a second weekend drop of 70%,

it was the first opener above $20 million to

drop over 65%. The film went on to gross $133

million in North America and $114 million in

foreign countries, coming to a worldwide total

of $246 million, with the final North American

gross of $132 .2 million. It became the largest

opener not to earn $150 million. 61 .2 million

in DVD sales, bringing its total film gross to

307 million. I don't understand. If this movie

is so bad, how the hell did people go out and

spend $62 .1 million on DVDs? How the hell did

it gross that amount on DVD sales when everybody

says it's so bad? Because that was after everyone

had seen it and knew how bad it was. That's what

I'm saying. Because it made sense that it made

so much over the opening weekend because no one

knew what it was going to be like and Marvel

had spent a lot of money to market the film.

So a lot of people went out and saw it. And then

after that, it had, I think, one of the biggest

drops, if not the biggest drop, after opening

weekend in, like, cinema history because everyone

saw it and was like, wow, this sucks, and no

one went to see it again or was telling everyone

else, don't go see this. Yeah, it was a 70 %

drop, and it was the biggest drop at its time.

But I'm not arguing the ticket sales. I'm arguing

the DVD sales. Okay, say, for example, all right,

G .I. Joe just came out. in theaters it's coming

out to DVD around the holiday season I guess

I didn't like the trailer I didn't go see the

film even if I did go see the film and I completely

hated it I would not buy the DVD for it I would

not put any if there's a franchise out there

that that I cannot stand why would I go see a

film of it in okay take Take Harry Potter. I've

never seen any of those films. I don't like them.

I'm sick of the advertising campaign. I wish

that they would just finish it up and just be

done with it. But I'm not this type of person

that's going to go out and buy a Harry Potter

DVD just because everybody else is doing it.

I don't understand why that this figure here

for Hulk has, you know, 61 .2 million in DVD

sales. If the movie was so friggin' bad, how

does that... How is that DVD sales number even

warranted? I don't know. Well, it did have a

pretty good DVD compared to the actual quality

of the movie. I think it was a two -disc version.

It had a lot of bonus features. It seems like

they put a lot of work into it. But, yeah, it's

a weird kind of thing, like exactly what you

were saying. Why would everyone go out and buy

that? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know either.

Producer... I also found it strange that Roger

Ebert gave this such a good review. Yeah, Roger

Ebert has... I'm pretty sure post, like, 1995,

Roger Ebert just lost his mind. Because I basically

disagree with, like, everything he says. Yeah,

it's become a running gag on MWire to figure

out which, like, to, like, when I get the...

the information from wiki and i you know find

the reception and the reviews and whatever else

and you know through our first like five or six

episodes of this podcast we looked at the roger

ebert reviews of each films that we were reviewing

and majority of them were all bad and we all

and steve and i and whoever else i had on the

show at the time um all thought that they were

really good films and it's like what the hell

is roger ebert smoking yeah and then this film

which is It has its moments, but admittedly,

it's not a really good movie, and Roger Ebert

was like, oh, it's so deep and dark, and it's

like a really good superhero film. What? I don't

know. Roger Ebert gave Star Wars Episode I three

and a half stars, so I think I basically lost

faith in the man. Yeah. Whatever small amount

of faith I had to begin with. Yeah. I didn't

have any. I think... And I'm not trying to speak

ill of the dead. I'm really not. But I think

as soon as Siskel passed away, Roger just went

into a complete slump. Yeah. Producer Avi Arad

called the film a financial flop, a disaster

at the box office, but declared Hulk's merchandising

was successful enough to continue a sequel. This

eventually led to rebooting the franchise with

The Incredible Hulk, which we'll be talking about

here in a few minutes. By merchandising, do they

mean those really cool Hulk fists that you can

put on your hands and you punch people into noises?

Because those were cool. That was the best thing

that came out of this movie. Does anyone else

remember those? Yeah, I remember seeing commercials

of them. Yeah, I remember seeing the commercials

for them. So we can attribute the really cool

Hulk fists to there even being a sequel to this

movie. It's good to know. Yeah, as far as Mr.

Ebert goes, Roger Ebert gave a largely positive

review explaining Ang Lee is trying to actually

deal with the issues in the story of the Hulk

instead of simply cutting to brainless visual

effects. Ebert also liked how the Hulk's movements

resembled King Kong. Again, what is he smoking?

He needs to take the pipe out of his mouth and

put it in his ass. Exactly. Oh, Lord. Yeah, the

rest of it is mainly just the more critical reviews.

So I guess, Steve, did you even ever see these?

I've never seen the first one. Really? I've never

seen the first one. Yeah, the second one I actually

caught while I was on my honeymoon. Oh, okay.

I don't think you're really missing much of the

first talk. I'd say watch it once just to see

it. Because it does, like, I really like the

visual style of the movie, and there are a few

cool action scenes, but the problem was just

that there was so much going on at once, and

it was just so poorly paced that you just get

really bored, even though they're throwing so

much plot at you that you just, it's almost hard

to handle it, I guess. Yeah, I completely agree.

And as I said before in the intro when I was

revealing the cast, I was like, Nick Nolte is

in this? This doesn't seem like a movie that

Nick Nolte would be in. I mean, he's been in

plenty of other great films. He's reduced to

being in a superhero film that isn't that great.

I think a lot of people were banking on this

movie being really good. That's the thing, because

it was in pre -production since the early 90s.

Everyone was expecting it to be so good, and

then it just had such a bad script that it just

kind of flopped. Yeah. Well, again, you have

so much pressure going off of X -Men in 2000,

and then Spider -Man in 2002, and then Daredevil

in 2003, which came out in February before this

was even released. And, you know, Daredevil,

I think, is the most underrated film of the Marvel

franchise. Mike and I talked about that last

episode. I'll get around to seeing that at some

point. You haven't seen it? Oh, dude. Okay, if

you go to bargain discount places like Mike does

for video games, look for the director's cut,

because the director's cut is a much better cut

of that film. It's more involved with the story.

The theatrical cut, it ties everything off, but

not very neatly. Yeah. So we are going to move

on to the 2008 reboot, The Incredible Hulk. It's

a 2008 superhero film based on the Marvel Comics

character, The Hulk. It is directed by, I don't

know, Louis Leterrier? It's Louis Leterrier,

I think. Yeah. It's French. Yeah. What have the

French ever done for us? Well, Americans. I'm

French. Americans, anyway. I mean, like, French

people from France. Well, they're all pretty

useless, and that's including myself. Oh, come

on now. I'm just kidding. Yeah. And stars Edward

Norton as Dr. Bruce Banner, the Hulk. It is not

a sequel to Hulk 2003, rather a reboot that establishes

a new backstory where Banner became the Hulk

as an underwinning pawn of a military scheme

to reinvigorate the super soldier program through

gamma radiation. On the run, he attempts to cure

himself of the Hulk before he's captured by General

Thaddeus Thunderbolt Ross, played by William

Hurt. His worst fears are realized when power

-hungry soldier Emil Blonsky, played by Tim Roth,

becomes Abomination. Liv Tyler also stars as

Betty Ross, Banner's girlfriend and General Ross's

daughter. Marvel Studios reacquired the rights

to the character after mixed reception to Hulk,

and writer Zach Penn began work on a loose sequel

that would be much closer to the comics. and

the television series, Norton rewrote the script

after he signed on to Star. Okay. Interesting

that Norton actually worked on a version of the

script, although he wasn't credited for it. Oh,

he was credited for it. I mean, he was taken

credit for it in every interview I saw him in.

Well, but I mean on the actual movie, when it

says written by, it doesn't include Edward Norton

because apparently the Writers Guild didn't want

to give him credit because it wasn't different

enough from the previous version, I guess. I

guess it has to differentiate itself enough in

order for him to earn his credit. I guess. I

mean, I've seen Edward Norton in a couple other

films. I know people are going to crucify me

when I say this, but I've never actually seen

Fight Club. I've heard about it, I've seen clips,

but it's just not my kind of movie, I guess.

I'm not saying anything bad about Fight Club.

I don't want people to start calling in on our

voicemail line saying, we're going to come kill

you because you don't like Fight Club. That's

not the case. I've never just had any interest

in the film either way, whether it's good or

it's bad, I don't know. I know he was in Rounders

with Matt Damon. He's been in a bunch of other

stuff, so I know he's a good actor, but he's

a fairly young actor. I don't see a lot of young

actors co -writing or even rewriting scripts

and acting and stuff as well. I mean, I know

Tom Cruise does all kinds of crap now, but he's

getting up there in age. Yeah, I think Edward

Norton is really smart from what I can tell.

Yeah. I have a lot of respect for that guy. Oh,

yeah. I mean, I'm not saying he's a bad guy or

a bad actor at all. I'm not saying anything against

him. I just don't see him as an actor slash producer

slash co -writer slash director at this point

in his career. I don't even know how old the

guy is, I think. He seems like he's still very

young. I don't think he's that young, actually.

I think he's like in his... I know he's in his

30s, probably. Yeah, he's probably mid -30s.

Yeah. But still, that is still fairly young when

it comes to Hollywood, considering, you know,

most of the women are 50 and they look like they're

25. Yeah, yeah. I always get a shock whenever

I'm, like, attracted to an actress or something,

and then I look up Rage, and I was like, born

1973. Oh, boy. The film outgrossed its predecessor

and generally received more positive reviews

despite its positive reception. Marvel chose

to put off a possible sequel until after 2012's

The Avengers. As of April 6, 2009, the film has

grossed $264 million in worldwide box office,

and it made $85 ,755 ,000 in home video sales,

bringing its total film gross to $350 million.

Okay, Dave, why don't you... Go ahead. I was

going to say it made it like a little bit more

than the previous one, but it wasn't really that

much. It was like 50 million more in total. So

it wasn't like a huge difference. I think it

was just because this one came right off of the

heels of Iron Man. Oh, yeah. A lot of people

were still, I think Iron Man was still in the

theater at the time. in a lot of theaters, and

people just didn't really care as much about

this one. Yeah. Especially because of how poorly

received the first Hulk film was, and people

were afraid of having the same kind of theater

experience. Yeah. Oh, I completely agree. Why

don't you, if you can, summarize this one for

us. Okay, this one I've seen more, and I liked

it more, so I actually remember it a little bit

more. So basically it's kind of a reboot slash

sequel because the last film left us off where

Bruce Banner was in the Amazon jungle, and that's

where this one picks up, where he's been kind

of running around for five years trying to avoid

the government until accidentally he cuts himself

and gets a little drop of blood in one of the

bottles. he works in like a juice bottling plant

down there and basically probably one of the

best Stan Lee cameos I've ever seen where he

plays an ill -fated consumer that drinks one

of these bottles and ends up dying in probably

the most comical way possible where in the theater

I was in no one could stop laughing at that part

especially the people who knew who Stan Lee was

and So basically, the government finds out where

he is, they send kind of a strike team down there,

led by Tim Roth as Emil Blonsky, and he kind

of, or Bruce Banner triggers himself to become

the Hulk again, and ends up killing all these

guys, except for Blonsky, who just barely survives.

And basically, he goes, Blonsky is like obsessed

with revenge. and decides to inject himself with

this super soldier serum that Betty Ross' father

has been working on. And so the Hulk comes back

to America again, and this is where I kind of

get fuzzy. I think he goes and searches for Betty

or something, and then they attack him at her

university where she's working. Right, right.

And then they escape and go off together, and

I think... Banner again makes contact with Mr.

Blue, who urges them to travel to New York City

to meet him. There we go. Yeah, so basically

they meet up with this guy who says he has, like,

a cure for them. Right. But at the same time,

he's been saving, like, Bruce sent him a blood

sample for him to test it, but he's been keeping

all these blood samples and, like, duplicating

it because he wants to, like, sell it to make

these superhumans or whatever. Uh, so, apparently,

whatever he does to Bruce doesn't work, because

later on, they get captured, and Bruce has to,

like, jump out of a helicopter in order to trigger

another response to become the Hulk again. Right.

And, like, just before he hits the ground, he

turns back into the Hulk, and at the same time,

Blonsky convinces, uh, Ross. Mr. Blue, or, uh,

I forget what his actual name is. It's, let's

see. Something or other. Oh, where is it? I just

had it. He turns out to be cellular biologist

Dr. Samuel Stearns, played by Tim Slater. Who

ends up becoming the leader later on. Right.

But basically he convinces Dr. Stern to give

him an injection of the same stuff that made

Bruce Banner into the Hulk, which ends up turning

him into the Abomination, who is one of the bigger

Hulk villains in the comic book, who basically

is like the Hulk, that he's a really big green,

kind of more of a dark grayish green character

that also keeps his intelligence as well. And

so the Hulk and him have kind of this final battle

together, which is probably one of the best parts

of the movie, which was actually shot on Bloor

Street right up here in Toronto, which is really

cool. I'm surprised the Bloor Street cinema survived

that fight. Yeah, I know. Actually, the Bloor

Street cinema is the Apollo Theater in the movie.

Oh, cool. So whenever you see the Apollo Theater

on the side of the screen, that's actually the

Bloor Street Cinema. They just kind of redecorated

the marquee on the outside. Cool. Which is kind

of interesting. But Hulk ends up defeating the

Abomination, and then he kind of just ends up

exiling himself to British Columbia. And then

at the end there's kind of a little epilogue

scene featuring... Samuel L. Jackson. No, this

one isn't Samuel L. Jackson. Samuel L. Jackson

was in Iron Man. Oh, that's right. This one features

Tony Stark. Yeah, that's right. I still think

that scene should have came after the credits,

but I guess they're trying to get people more

pumped up for the upcoming Avengers movie. At

the time? Okay, that was last year's. See, I

don't see how they could be trying to pump people

up for the Avengers movie. It's not coming until

2012. So you're going to try to pump people up

four years ahead of time? I could see maybe a

year and a half to two years ahead of the actual

release of that film. I don't know. Overall,

it's probably because now that Marvel Studios

is owning the rights to all their own movies,

they're trying to kind of interconnect them all.

Right. So they're bringing characters from each

movie into the other movies. Like, I even heard

a rumor, I'm not sure if this is true, but Iron

Man 2 supposedly will also feature a cameo. of

Edward Norton as the Hulk or just as Bruce Banner.

Now, I saw, I don't know if it was a special

feature. When I originally saw this film, I just

went to a Redbox and got it and just said the

heck with it. I was like, I don't know, it was

last year when Monopoly was still going on at

McDonald's. I got a bunch of hash browns, went

to Redbox, got this, took it home and watched

it. At first, I wasn't too impressed with it.

I'm probably going to have to go back and watch

it now that we've been talking about it. Was

Lou Ferrigno at all, were his facial expressions

used at all in the actual Hulk CGI? I'm not sure,

actually, possibly. Because I know for sure he

did the voice of the Hulk. Right. Okay, maybe

that's what it is. Maybe that's what I'm thinking

of. Because I know Lou himself has a cameo in

the film. Yeah, he plays the security guard.

He played a security guard in the first Hulk,

and he plays another one in this one as well.

Right, right. I think that's really good that

they do that, regardless whether Marvel owns

the rights or not, at least, you know, like with

Stan popping up in all the Marvel movies, which,

of course, he's going to pop up in all of them.

And I like actually trying to spot him. It's

kind of funny. Because, you know, like you said,

this is probably the best one so far, you know,

of him dying from drinking the poison juice.

Yeah, yeah. That, and I like the one in, I think

it was X -Men 3 as well, where he's like a guy

who's watering his lawn. Oh, yeah, that's right.

That one was pretty funny as well. I think my

favorite Stan Lee pop -up in a Marvel film is

probably the one in Daredevil where young Matt

Murdock saves him from getting hit by a car when

he's trying to cross the street. So you'll have

to go out and watch Daredevil. Maybe I'll do

that tonight, actually. Or no, because I have

to gather news tonight. Crap. I'll do it at some

point. I'll find time. Going into the cast of

this... Go ahead. Oh, sorry, you can talk about

the cast. Oh, well, I mean, if you had something

to say, you can go ahead and say it. I was just

going to talk about what I did or didn't like

about the movie. Oh, well, we can say that until

the end. Yeah, we'll say that until the end.

So, as far as the cast goes, you have Edward

Norton in the role of Dr. Bruce Banner slash

the Hulk. I liked... I don't know. I'm kind of

torn between his performance and Banner's performance

from the first film. I don't know which one I

liked better. I think I liked him better as...

I liked Norton in the Banner role in here rather

than... the other film as far as Eric Bana, but

I don't know if I actually liked him as Hulk,

because originally I thought, like I said, that

Lou Ferrigno was the face of the Hulk, but it

says here he voices the Hulk during the 2008

New York Comic Con. LeTerrier publicly offered

Ferrigno the chance to voice the Hulk for the

film. This marks the third time Ferrigno portrayed

the Hulk, having also voiced the character in

the 1996 animated series. originally the hulks

good so that's pretty cool that they they brought

him back like that and uh yeah i have to say

i i also preferred norton's version of uh bruce

banner because i think he just he cared about

the character more and the fact that he rewrote

the script himself yeah it shows how much he

really cares about this character oh yeah also

norton was uh He was considered for the role

in the first movie as well, but he turned it

down because he didn't really like the script.

So you can tell he really likes the Hulk as a

character, and he gets it, like he gets what's

going on with this person as like a dual kind

of half -man, half -monster. But he was just

waiting for sort of the right script to come

along. Oh, yeah, I completely agree. I'm just

trying to look between the two scripts of...

Oh, okay, Sam Elliott played him in the first

film. I was trying to compare the two versions

of General Ross, Betty Ross's father. And in

the second film, he is played by William Hurt,

which I think I like Hurt's version better. I

don't know, it had more emotion to it, I think.

While Sam Elliott is a great actor, William Hurt

actually brought more to the general's role,

I thought. Yeah, Elliott's version seemed more

like he was just kind of angry all the time.

Yeah. William Hurt seemed more like he had actual

motivation to it. Right. And as far as, you know,

as we said before, majority of us, well, I don't

know about Steve because he hasn't seen the first

film, but between you and I, we both prefer Connelly

over Tyler for Betty. I don't know. Her performance

just didn't feel real to me enough for the character

that she's trying to play. Yeah. Although she

didn't really hurt the film. No. I almost would

have preferred if they had brought Connelly back.

Oh, sorry, go ahead. What did you say, Steve?

I was just going to say that she didn't really

have that strong of a performance at all in the

movie anyway, but that could have just been the

way it was written. Yeah, that's true, too. Yeah.

And then, of course, you had Tim Roth as Emil

Blonsky slash The Abomination. I thought that

was really good casting for a villain. Yeah,

because you don't really see Tim Roth in this

kind of, like, blockbuster. uh, like sci -fi

action movie like this. Yeah. Like normally he's

in kind of weirder, more independent movies.

He's in a lot of like Tarantino stuff. Yeah.

And, uh, you don't see him in stuff like this,

but he did a really good job. Oh yeah. I mean,

he did. I, you know, and I like, I mean, obviously

the abomination is, uh, is a CGI type character

and you really can't tell that Roth is in there

as far as maybe other than, other than the voice.

But as far as his human form, you know, I really

liked the way he portrayed that, that, you know,

the, the, the Blonsky character as far as being

enraged and wanting revenge and wanting, you

know, just being jealous. Um, I thought that

was really played out very well. Yeah. And he

felt like, felt like a real villain. Like he

didn't feel like he was just kind of hamming

it up. Yep. Like, I understood this person's

motivations, which is really cool. Yeah. You

know, it has... When I got the notes for this,

I got a... Excuse me. Part of Wiki sometimes

will show the production images and the images

here. The Incredible Hulk is influenced by the

TV series of the same name. Above is Edward Norton

and below is Bill Bixby, both sitting in similar

chairs. And I think that's really cool that they're

trying to not really reboot the TV series onto

the big screen, but they're taking aspects from

it, like obviously bringing in Lou Ferrigno for

the voice and all that kind of stuff there. Yeah,

really, and I think Bill Bixby actually had a

cameo in this as well. I think he did. I really

like how this movie balanced out how it was influenced

by the TV show and the comics, and still, it

was sort of a sequel to the first movie if you

ignore the whole origin during the opening credits,

but it could also be taken as its own film as

well. So it does a lot of things at once, and

it really worked out well. Yeah, and I like this

story much better than the whole, oh, my father

abused me and experimented on me, which I'm not

saying that that's good at all. I just don't

think that that is a good origin story for the

Hulk, showing a father who experiments on his

son. I think that's where the 2003 version really

went wrong. Because that's just wrong to me.

It's something you should not do in cinema, is

show really, really... horrible, abusive situations.

Yeah, I just, I preferred this version, especially

since it didn't focus on the Hulk's origin. It

basically just, it gives you the origin in the

first three to five minutes while the credits

are rolling. It just shows you in images. It

doesn't even have people talking during that

time. It's just showing you images of this is

how he became the Hulk. and then after that it

just continues on with the actual plot where

the Hulk has been hiding from the government

for five years. Yeah. So, again, it can be taken

as its own film. You don't have to see the 2003

version, but if you do see the 2003 version,

they both complement each other at the same time.

So it did a good job of being a reboot and a

sequel at the same time, which is a really hard

thing to pull off, obviously. Oh, yes. And before

we get into the whole release information, what

are your overall impressions of The Incredible

Hulk? Personally, I really, really like the film.

In a lot of ways, I actually liked it more than

Iron Man, which I think I'm one of the only people

that actually feels this way. That's blasphemy,

sir. Sorry, but I don't know. I like this movie

a lot more than a lot of people I know, I guess.

And not just because it's better than the original.

Obviously, if you compare anything to the 2003

Hulk, it's probably going to be better. It's

really good as its own film. It had really good

writing. It had a really good plot that wasn't

too convoluted like the original. It was just...

It was straightforward, it was action -packed,

but without being stupid action. It was still,

the intelligence was still there, and it was

just a really well -written, well -directed,

and well -acted film. entertaining all around

oh yes very much so you will not see no no crouching

hulk hidden tiger um as far as the release information

uh one of the um the president the executive

vice president of universal studios uh stephanie

sperber uh had this to say we know the hulk from

2003 didn't satisfy the fans that we had to acknowledge

that we emphasize the passion that the fans still

have for this character and that this was the

movie people have always wanted I would agree

with that. I mean, I think that this is a good

version of the Hulk as far as the origin story.

And as we said before, the actual overall plot

of the movie is much better. Again, as we've

said before, we would have preferred seeing Jennifer

Connelly in the Betty Ross role rather than Liv

Tyler. But, you know, hey, what are you going

to do? And it felt more like the comic just kind

of leaping to the screen. It felt like they stayed

true to their roots while taking it into the

21st century, I guess. Right. And apparently,

according to this, 70 minutes of footage, mostly

dealing with the origin, were not included in

the final cut. Much of this backstory was unscripted

and the filmmakers were never sure of including

it into the final cut and had considered releasing

some of these clips on the internet. Editor Kyle

Cooper, creator of the Marvel logo with the flipping

pages and the montage detailing Iron Man's biography

in that film, edited together much of this footage.

into the opening credits. LeTerrier explained

a negative test screening where the flashbacks

were placed across the film that the audience

found too similar to Hulk had resulted in compressing

these to the film's start. This replaced the

original opening where Banner comes to the Arctic

to commit suicide. LeTerrier said he did not

want this scene to be lost amid the opening montage.

Again, that's what DVD is all about. If you have

any amount of footage, whether it be 70 minutes,

whether it be 6 minutes, whatever, you can always

put that in on a DVD as a deleted scene or an

alternate ending. There's so much you can do

with DVD market nowadays with stuff like that.

Yeah, and I'm surprised they didn't put this

footage on there. I remember hearing that there

was a whole bunch of footage for this movie that

they didn't use. And I'm kind of glad they didn't

use it because it would have almost, again, it

would have convoluted the movie too much and

it would have felt too much like the original

Hulk where there was too much happening at once.

And I like how they just, they cut it down into

short clips in the first five minutes of the

film and... it cuts to the chase and it does

a good job. But again, like you said, it would

have been nice to be able to see the full origin

story footage on the DVD, or even as its own

separate short film. Like if they had a bonus

disc for the DVD that included like a 70 -minute

short film of, or actually that would almost

be like a feature -length film that was just

the origin of the Hulk. Using all this extra

footage. Yeah. It would have been an interesting

thing to try and release. I know that there were...

Okay, we all know that you get single disc, two

disc... Digital copies, you know, there's Blu

-ray now. I know that they had released a three

-disc special limited edition or special edition

of this film on DVD, and maybe it's on there.

I don't know. I don't own it. You know, maybe

I'm going to have to break. I know the third

disc was just a digital copy. Oh, okay. So it's

more or less like a two -disc version. Right,

right. With the additional digital copy added

to that. Don't think it included the footage,

but I'm not sure. I own the OneDisc version.

It has deleted scenes on it, but it doesn't include

all this. additional origin story stuff. It's

just additional little things that happened throughout

the film. Oh, okay. The film was nominated for

Best Superhero Film at the 2008 National Movie

Awards and for Best Science Fiction Film at the

Saturn Awards, which, you know, again, wow. You

know, a Hulk film nominated for an award. Who

would have guessed? But, you know, I guess it

was that good to, you know, get nominated for

awards. That's cool. The film was number one

in sales when released on DVD and Blu -ray on

October 21, 2008 in the United States, having

been available in the United Kingdom since October

13. There is widescreen and fullscreen single

-disc editions, a three -disc special edition,

and two -disc Blu -ray package. The first disc

contains an audio commentary by LeTerrier and

Roth, while the second comes with special features

and deleted scenes, and the third with a digital

copy like you said. The Blu -ray edition compresses

the content of the film the first two DVD discs

into one, while the second disc contains the

digital copy. The package features a green border,

marking the first time that Blu -ray case for

the film is not blue. So far, it has made $86

million in home video sales, bringing its total

film gross to close to $350 million, which, as

we've said before... isn't much more than the

original or the not the original the uh the 2003

version but at least it wasn't a box office flop

like like the 2003 version and i think they spent

a lot less money on this movie especially since

it wasn't in development as long so they they

made a much higher profit off of it and marvel

is making a really smart move now by producing

their own movies and bringing them all into kind

of the same universe. So now we have the Thor

movie that's coming out, the Ant -Man movie,

Iron Man 2, and eventually the Captain America

and Avengers movies that will have all of these

characters together, and it's all taking place

within the same universe, and all the... the

plots from each movie will eventually kind of

tie together, which is really cool. I think that's

really awesome that Marvel has decided to do

that. 2008 for me was like the year of awesome

summer Hollywood movies, because you had The

Dark Knight, you also had Iron Man and The Hulk,

which are both amazing Marvel movies. And then

this year kind of sucked in that respect. Yeah,

the only... We had Wolverine in that kind of...

Suck. Yeah. I did eventually. At first I said,

as far as Wolverine goes, I know we're still

talking about the Hulk, but as far as Wolverine

goes, when I first heard about him, I'm like,

eh, whatever. Even though Hugh Jackman was back,

it just didn't seem like the right way for a

Wolverine movie to go. And then, of course, one

night, I don't know, 2 a .m., I went to a Redbox

and I got it. I thought it was all right, but

it wasn't the best in the world. Let's see. It

could have been handled a lot better. If you

go to the Twig website, we did a commentary for

that and we had a whole episode about it. We

discussed everything we liked and didn't like

about the film. I'm kind of sick of talking about

that one. Yeah, I think everybody's kind of sick

of talking about it. Kevin Feige said that the

film met Marvel's expectations and that Hulk

will return, but after the crossover, which I'm

assuming is the Avengers movie. Heard is not

concerned that the sequel may not be produced

until at least 2012 onwards, citing the positive

reception to the film and having produced the

Terminator series in the second and third film,

of which had a 12 -year gap. and rumored that

Edward Norton will reprise his role as the Hulk

in a cameo role towards the end of Iron Man 2.

As a lead -up to 2012's The Avengers, Tim Roth

has confirmed that Marvel has signed him for

three more films. Okay, well, if Roth has been

signed for three more films, is that three Hulk

films? Or is that just three films in general

where he could show up as any character anywhere?

I think it's just three films in general, I think,

because they'll probably show up in the Avengers

movie, I'm guessing. As who? As the Abomination,

because I don't think he dies at the end of The

Incredible Hulk, does he? I don't think so, no.

I'm pretty sure he's still alive, so he could

show up in the Avengers movie as one of the villains.

Right. And who knows, he might even have a cameo

in one of the other Marvel films. And I'm really

hoping they make an Incredible Hulk 2, but again,

they're not looking at doing that until after

they've done the Avengers, which is a pretty

smart move. Oh, yeah. Good idea to focus on all

this other stuff, get that out of the way, and

then you can work on making a third Hulk movie,

which hopefully will have the leader in it since

he's kind of hinted at at the very end of this

movie. Yeah, yeah. What was I going to say? You

know, it's funny now that with the acquisition

Disney has made of Marvel, it's funny now that

I think of all these new Marvel movies that are

going to be coming out. I often think, are we

going to see somebody just like an extra walking

down the street in the background with a Mickey

Mouse comic book or something like that? I don't

know. I don't think Disney's really going to

affect Marvel that much. Oh, I don't think either.

They basically stated they own them, so they're

getting money off of it, but they're pretty much

staying out of their affairs, as far as I know.

Yeah, I think it's pretty much the same as what

they do with Pixar. They let Pixar do what they

want to do, and they just market it themselves.

Well, mostly, except for when it comes to Cars

2. Well... Pixar didn't want to make a Cars 2

at all. Disney was basically like, okay, we made

so much money off of the first Cars that if you

guys don't make a Cars 2, then we're going to

make a Cars 2, and we don't care about the quality,

we're just going to make it. So people were like,

okay, fine, we'll make it, and I guess they're

going to try and make it as good as they can,

although the first Cars, admittedly, was probably

the worst Pixar film. Did it deserve a sequel?

No, not at all. Steve, you've been awfully quiet

over there. You didn't fall asleep again, did

you? No. Good, because we have more work to do

after this episode is over. So final thoughts

on both films, Dave. I mean, me, because I haven't

seen them in so long. It was last year that I

saw The Incredible Hulk, and yeah, I remember

it the most, but it's been so long since I've

seen the 2003 version. What are your final thoughts

as far as both of them? I'd say the first Hulk,

it was bad, but it's not horrible. It's just,

it had... It had more bad things than it did

good things, I guess. And it's almost like they

got too ambitious. And they were just trying

to juggle too many things at once, and they just

kind of dropped the ball. And with the second

movie, they made it simpler, more fast -paced,

more action, and it just worked. It felt like

I was just watching an entertaining comic book

movie. And it's not the best comic book movie

in the world, but... But it's, you know, for

like a summer blockbuster film like that, it's

really good. Right, right. Do you, before we

go into the official closing, do you have anything

that you want to plug? Anything that you're working

on? Like maybe you're writing or I don't know

if you can actually plug any twig stuff of what

you guys have coming up. I don't know. We usually

ask Mike to do that because he's, I don't know,

I guess the boss. He's a better plug guy. Well,

no, it's not really a better plug guy, but he

has like... I mean, I don't normally know what

you guys like you and Stefan and Pierce are always

up to because you guys really don't put your

lives out there like Mike does. I mean, Mike

basically pimps himself out everywhere all over

the Internet. And I'm not saying that against

him at all, but it's just the truth. Yeah. Well,

we have basically coming up this week, we're

starting our new Season 4. where our topic show

and our news show will be separated. So the news

show is going to be longer. We don't have to

compress our news as much into the first half

an hour of the show. And then the topic show

will also be shorter because it won't have the

news tagged onto it. So that will be about an

hour long instead of like an hour and a half.

So why not just crunch 30? Go ahead. No, go ahead.

I'll ask you afterwards. Go ahead. So it'll just

be a better thing to have those two things separated,

which I can't believe we didn't think of this

before. So that's coming up, Season 4. It'll

be exciting. Our first episode will be on the

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yes. I've been

doing a lot of research for that because I didn't

actually grow up with the Ninja Turtles. Oh,

wow. Which is kind of weird. Yeah, I just never

really got into it as a kid. Wow. What kind of

time warp did you live in, dude? I don't know.

All right. So. Thank you. I'd like to take a

minute to talk about this. I don't have the numbers

with me. I'm not sure if Steve does or not. I

think the last time I looked at the MWire numbers

from the file that you had sent me, Steve, it

was like, I don't know, 15, 20 subscribers. So,

you know, if you are listening to this show,

please... Give us five -star feedback would be

preferred and positive reviews. We have no reviews

on iTunes for this show. So let us know what

you like, what you don't like. You know, we'll

work on it. I mean, we're still fairly a young

show. We're only up to 14 episodes already. So

that's the iTunes pitch. The fourth is you can

visit the www .earth -2 .net forums and find

our threads for the shows in the self -promotion

section. And the fifth is the email address,

which is gcrnmwire at gmail .com. You can also

head over to thisweekengeek .net and find all

the Twig stuff over there featuring Dave, Stefan.

Steve Snowball Sailor, which he's taken a leave

of absence, I think, and Mike the Birdman Dodd,

as well as Pierce the Punk Dirks, which I haven't

heard Pierce on the show a lot lately. Where's

he been? He's been busy with all sorts of things,

and with different projects and stuff. I think

currently he's been working on a new song that

he's been recording, actually. He'll be joining

us for our Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles episode.

Which Stefan won't be on that because Stefan

also didn't grow up with the Ninja Turtles, which

is kind of weird. Oh, boy. They both had very

strange childhoods. Very sheltered lives. So

that'll be me. Mike and Pierce on that episode.

Oh, cool. We now have a voicemail line. Call

us and leave us your thoughts on each episode.

Be sure to say which show you're leaving the

message for and your name. The number is 502

-526 -5821. You can also follow us on Twitter.

The show name there is GCRNMYR. Mine is TFG1Mike.

And Dave, what is your Twitter, sir? David underscore

Dennis. And Steve, what is yours? Yeah, that's

yours, Dave. SCP -21? We hope you enjoyed this

episode of The M -Wire and wish you'll join us

next time we'll be reviewing in the Marvel Spotlight

Iron Man. Hopefully Mike can join us for that

show. For now, I am TFG1 Mike with David Double

D Dennis and Steve Megatron Phillips saying the

moral words of Elizabeth Shue, don't fuck with

the babysitter and thank you for listening. Until

next time. I've got a problem. close to your

levels of exposure. That you survived an event

like that, it's beyond my comprehension. I don't

want to control it. I want to get rid of it.

As far as I'm concerned, that man's whole body

is property of the U .S. Army. They want it as

a weapon. If we let it go, we will never get

it back. Maybe if I can control it, I can use

it.