MWIRE – EP 197 – Star Trek – The Next Generation Films

I'm Joe Kramer, composer for Mission Impossible

Rogue Nation. Your mission, should you choose

to accept it, is to listen to Movie Week in Review

from the Geekcast Radio Network. Next Saturday

night, we're sending you back to the future!

This is MWire. Movie Week in Review. And now,

the latest in movies with M .Wire. Second start

of the run. And straight on to the morning. Hello,

everyone. TFG and Mike here. And I just want

to let everyone know, no, you're not seeing things.

No, you're not hearing things. Through the magic

of Optimus Solo's meth, I mean math, we have

decided to go to an overall numbering scheme

here on MWire to wrap up the podcast. So as of

this recording, we had hit 196 episodes in total

of almost... nine years of the podcast. This

episode will be 197 instead of 139. So please

enjoy Steve Megatron and I talking about Star

Trek The Next Generation films here on MWire.

You say history considers me dead. Who am I to

argue with history? You're a Starfleet officer.

You have a duty. I don't need to be lectured

by you. I was out saving the galaxy when your

grandfather was in diapers. Besides which, I

think the galaxy owes me one. Hello and welcome

to episode 139 of Movie Week in Review. Yes,

that's right, we are walking on the M -Wire here

at GCR. And I'm, of course, TF2 and Mike. Joining

me is Steve Megatron. Hello. Hello. How are you?

Same as always. I don't know what that means,

but okay. Yeah, we're on our second week of Star

Trek films. I'm going to say this in this episode

and I'm going to say this in the next episode.

I watched all 13 films in 14 days. I'm sorry.

And some of these films are good. Some of them

are okay. And some of them I don't ever want

to see again. So. Yes. So tonight we're talking

about the next generation, which is technically

my generation. I know it's your generation as

well, but you know. Well, I kind of grew up collectively

between the TOS and TNG era. Mostly because I

was exposed to the TOS era because of my mom.

And then we used to watch TNG when it was new

on the air. So that was kind of something that

we did collectively as a family. So yeah, I used

to watch that a lot. And Generations was the

first Trek film I got to see in theater. Sweet.

Awesome. Yeah, I'm going to say this right now,

and I know it's sacrilege for saying this, but...

A while ago, maybe last year I think it was,

you had me watch Relics, which is a TNG episode.

And as I was re -watching Generations, I got

this and Relics confused. I'm like, wait, doesn't

Scotty come back at some point? And then as I

slowly got further into Generations, I'm like,

oh, that's right, the Borg. The Borg is the next

film. Yes. This one is the Nexus. The Nexus,

yeah. Are the Vok there? Ha ha. Nobody's going

to get that but us. No. Yes. Yeah, the Nexus.

The Nexus reminds me of the Speed Force. You

could kind of call it that in a sense. This computer

terminal provides full access to the Elkar's

computer net. It can be operated both by voice

and keypad commands. Initiating update. And now

for Elkar's. On this version of Elkar's, we'll

be talking about the TNG films, Generations First

Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis. All sequentially

films 7 through 10, and the final films of the

prime timeline. Of the original timeline that

spanned the past 50 years of Star Trek. So getting

into a little bit of the domestic numbers or

worldwide numbers on these films, Generations

overall was $118 million, First Contact $146

million, Insurrection $112 million, and Nemesis

$67 million. And the budgets for them were minuscule

at best. They started off with like $35 million,

$45 million, $58 million, and $60 million. So

the final film made about $7 million back out

of its total, which is pretty pathetic. Overall,

it grossed $443 million, which for films of Star

Trek is pretty pathetic when you consider that

you look in today's age and you get things like,

you know... Justice League, which make about

$200 million more than that. So, yeah. The films

star Patrick Stewart as Captain Jean -Luc Picard,

Jonathan Frakes as William T. Riker, Marina Sirtis

as Deanna Troi, Brent Spiner as Data, LeVar Burton

as Geordi LaForge, Michael Dorn as Worf. Gates

McFadden as Dr. Beverly Crusher. And they were

in all four films. In Star Trek Generations,

you had the crossover with Captain James T. Kirk.

And Chekhov and Scotty in the episode as well.

And you also had various callbacks and references.

And so it was kind of a passing of the torch

film. Star Trek Generations was released November

18th, 1994, and also the very first Star Trek

film I saw in theater. Screenplay by Ronald D.

Moore, Brennan Braga, who's also now on the Orville.

Story was by Rick Berman, Ron Moore, and Brennan

Braga, and directed by David Carson. And yeah,

it was kind of the bridging of two eras. Officially

the first film made without anything from Gene

Roddenberry. And then moving on into Star Trek

First Contact, it was released in November 22nd

of 1996. Also written by Brandon Braga and Rondi

Moore, and Rick Berman, directed by Jonathan

Frakes. Little bit of a time travel epic there,

as it were. And then in December 11th, 1998,

we had Insurrection, which was written by Michael

Piller. Essentially a run -on TNG episode. Story

was by Rick Berman and Michael Piller, directed

by Jonathan Frakes. Overall, not that great of

a film. And then you get into Nemesis, which

was written by John Logan, Rick Berman, and Brent

Spiner. Brent Spiner essentially tried to pull

the same thing as... Spock in Star Trek 3. And

so this one was directed by Stuart Baird. So

that rounds out this Elkars for TNG. So now back

to the show. Please confirm deactivation request.

Deactivation complete. Now disconnected from

this terminal. So why don't you synopsize generations

for us. So... The catchphrase of the film was,

two captains, one destiny. Because it takes place,

at least in the beginning, in the late 23rd century,

almost beginning of the 24th. The USS Enterprise

B is on her maiden voyage. This is supposed to

be either six months to a year after Undiscovered

Country. And Kirk is no longer in the captain's

chair. The ship must rescue Elorian refugees

from a mysterious energy ribbon, but the rescue

seemingly cost Kirk his life. Seventy -eight

years later, one of the Elorian survivors leads

the crew of the Enterprise -D into a deadly confrontation

with the Duras sisters, as he plots to reenter

the paradise of the ribbon that nearly destroyed

him years prior. Yeah, and so one of the other

Elorians is Guinan. It's a little troubling to

me that she's on this ship unless they were leaving

Earth. Right. And I'll say this because there's

an episode of TNG called Time's Arrow, which

takes place in like the 1800s, and Guinan is

on Earth. Hmm. So it's a little bit weird. in

that timetable. Um, cause she does get to meet

like data and, and, and Picard and some of them

back in the past because of time travel reasons.

Uh, but yeah, she also gets to communicate with

Picard and the Nexus later on. But, uh, yeah,

the, uh, the, the film as a whole, like, Some

of the funny things about at least the beginning

of the film is it originally started off with

Kirk skydiving. Or orbital diving. Yeah. Which

is not on the theatrical release. It's on the

DVD. Or at least the special edition DVD. It

wasn't on the original one I had. Yeah, so he's

orbital skydiving and he lands right where his

target... was or so he thinks and and checkoff

points out that actually it was about 10 feet

that way yeah and and uh uh checkoff and scotty

are waiting for him at the the drop and they're

like are you going to the the launch of the enterprise

b and he's like no and and they're like come

on you gotta go blah blah blah and You got to

send it off. Well, originally, Scotty was supposed

to be Spock. And Chekhov was supposed to be McCoy.

Because they were going to have the three be

there for the beginning. But McCoy, the actor,

DeForest Kelly, had health issues. And Leonard

Nimoy was not going to do it for a cameo piece

that didn't have very much Spock. Although he

does do that years later. I was going to say,

not only the reboot, but Big Bang Theory 2. But

he had a prominent role in the reboot anyway.

That aside, that's why they have Scotty in Chekhov.

And this was actually a year or two before Scotty

died. So yeah, it's... Kirk saves the day at

the apparent peril of his own life and gets to

go to the 24th century and save the day again.

Yep. Because two captains of the Enterprise can't

handle what the original could. So I have a question.

So you get to say three captains of the Enterprise

in this. Yeah, Kirk, Picard, and Janeway. No,

not Janeway. Janeway doesn't. She's got the Voyager.

Yeah, that's in Nemesis or Insurrection. Well,

she's an Admiral and that's in Nemesis. She's

back from the Delta Quadrant at that point. But

no, Captain John Harriman. Oh, that's right.

Cameron Frye. I saw that and I was like... Because

the only parts I remember about this movie are

pretty much everything that was shown in the

trailers or things like that, or the fact that

Picard and Kirk met up. I've seen this before

today. I've seen this before watching it for

this podcast, but it's been years since I've

seen this thing. So yeah. So I do have a question

here. This skips from the Enterprise B to the

Enterprise D. What the hell happened to the Enterprise

C? Watch TNG. There's an episode called Yesterday's

Enterprise. Okay. And it explains the entire

thing of the Enterprise C, which, funny enough,

plays a prominent role in Star Trek Online at

one point. Hmm. Cool. But, yeah. So it explains

the only bit of... And that's why I've always

concluded that... Star Trek Discovery should

have been placed between the Enterprise B and

the Enterprise C timeline. Because that bit of

history is missing. And that's kind of what I

would have liked to have seen. And between the

Enterprise C and the D, there was like a 20 -year

span where they had no Enterprise. And the Enterprise

B is destroyed at one point. somewhere in the

24th century. Dang. But no, I love Generations.

I love the story. I love that we, and again,

I haven't seen TOS in a long time. I love that

we actually get character for Kirk. I'm sure

in the series he's had plenty of characters,

but all I remember about Kirk from TOS is...

He was a womanizing adventurer. Well, he used

it to get his means of whatever he needed to

accomplish. Yeah. And so, yeah, they wrote his

role really well for this film. Absolutely, because

like I said, they actually give him a backstory

of when he met whichever wife it is that he met.

and all of that. That moment when he's jumping

over the gorge and he realizes, oh, I'm not afraid

of this. That means this isn't real. You get

Malcolm McDowell as the bad guy in this, which,

wow, he plays a good... He's a great actor, but

he plays a good bad guy in this. He's one of

the best bad guys we've gotten. We got Chang

in the previous one, which was really good. And

then in three, we had Corge, which was Christopher

Lloyd in the third one. And we had Khan before

that. So, I mean, we've had some pretty notable

ones. But, yeah, he was pretty ballsy to even

take on the Klingons and get away with it. Yeah.

And the Duras sisters, I hate them with a passion.

Really? Why? Yeah, they're just annoying. They

were in TNG throughout the series, and they just

were annoying in that, too. Very cool, very cool.

Yeah, I mean, I absolutely think this is just

a great, great, well -done film. Going back to

it, I remember seeing it before this, but like

I said, not actually like I really thought Kirk

was dead this time obviously I didn't you know

obviously I knew that that was not you know what

was going to happen but and like I said before

it's not often we see Star Trek captains together

unless you watch that special that Shatner did

called the captains where he's interviewing all

the actors but it's very rare that we see two

different captains come together. I think this

was the first time. Between the two series. Between

TOS and TNG. It's the first time that Kirk and

Picard meet and the only time. Other than if

you read William Shatner's novels, which take

place between each film and intermittently between

other content of the TNG universe. Okay. There's

one called Star Trek Return in which the Romulans

and the Borg resurrect Kirk's corpse. Oh, Lord.

And basically try and get him to assassinate

Picard, and that requires, because in this universe,

McCoy, Scotty, and Spock are all still alive,

they have to help the Enterprise D crew. uh basically

rescue kirk and then of course he gets to fight

the borg with picard and another end of kirk

temporarily um as he's cleansed of the borg stuff

so i mean it's i've read the whole book franchise

that takes place after and they're uh actually

pretty decent um but it it even touches on like

the mirror universe and uh various other aspects

the uh Star Trek mythos of this generation so

they essentially get to live on which is cool

but yeah I mean I loved the aspect of Kirk and

Picard working together I'm probably wrong on

this but I know I'm pretty sure that Patrick

Stewart has said something about his love of

horses and riding horses and I think this is

the first time I'd seen him ride a horse in this

movie, so that was kind of cool. He's ridden

horses in the series, too. Okay, well, again,

as soon as I'm not all Star Trek -ed out after

watching 13 films in 14 days, I do plan on going

back and slowly making my way through TNG. Well,

just let me know ahead of time, and I'll prep

you to which episodes to skip. I've already gone

through all the series. If I'm going to watch

it, I'm going to watch it all, whether it's bad

or not. With Generations, I love how they transition

from Kirk's potential death to 78 years later

on a seafaring adventure because they're on the

holodeck. I thought that was hilarious. Kind

of ship's name, Enterprise. Yep. They should

have called it the SS Enterprise. But yeah, I

love that. Like you said, they're promoting Worf.

Is it just me or... No, Worf gets humor. It's

Data that doesn't get humor. Oh god, Data. I

forgot how annoying he was in this movie. In

all the movies, honestly. It wasn't that bad,

actually. This one, he had a lot of humorous

moments. Like, life forms. Yeah, that was funny.

And then he got to experience panic and fear.

It was interesting to see him get that. And then

when the ship's going down, he's like, oh. And

then it, you know. Yeah, and then. I think the

emotion chip's malfunctioning. I'm leaking from

my eyes. No, Data, that's just called crying.

But this whole movie just... Oh, God. He just

annoyed the hell out of me. He really, really

did. So going through the cast really quickly,

obviously Patrick Stewart, William Shatner as

the captains, Jonathan Frakes as Riker, Brent

Spiner as Data, LeVar Burton as Geordi, Michael

Dorn as Worf. This is actually his second Star

Trek film, even though in Undiscovered Country

he was the grandfather of Colonel Worf, so there's

that. What's funny is after this film, because

the Enterprise -D gets destroyed, that's the

way they introduce him into Deep Space Nine.

Into having him as a series regular for the remainder

of the series. And then he intermittently comes

back for duty upon the Enterprise -D upon certain

missions. So that's why he continuously keeps

popping back up. Very cool. You had Jacqueline

Kim as Ensign Demora Sulu, so that was a nice

little nod. Since George wasn't in the film,

that was a nice nod to Sulu. When, you know,

Kirk's like, when did Sulu have time to have

a family? With text like that, you'd be a lousy

psychiatrist. And then, like I said, you have

Malcolm McDowell and Whoopi Goldberg. I forgot

Whoopi was in this. Absolutely forgot about that

one. Yeah, Generations is a film I can go back

to every now and then. It's probably not one

I'd go back to. I like it. I enjoy it. I enjoy

watching it. But now that I have a... better,

more up -to -date refresher on it, it might be

about five years before I go back to it. See,

I love it just because it's got Kirk. I don't

like how Kirk died. But technically it kind of

falls with his I always knew I'd die alone. Because

McCoy and Spock aren't there to save him. That's

true. Generations, I'll probably give four and

a half out of five. What about you? I'd probably

give it a four and a half out of five, only because

the Duras sisters were kind of just throwaway,

and then they were kind of obnoxious when they

took over Geordi's visor. And this was the last

time, thankfully, we got to see that visor. Yeah,

explain that to me. Like, what the hell? As far

as what? His visor. Well, we can explain what

happens in the next film pertaining to that,

but the visor was deemed a thing that could be

removed and obviously signal breached for obvious

reasons. Yeah, that's true. I don't know, but

when I think of TNG, I think of Geordi with the

visor. I don't think of Geordi without the visor.

Up next is the first and only Star Trek film

I saw in theaters, Star Trek First Contact. And

this was back in the days, folks. This was, oof.

How long ago was this? Oh, my God, 1996. Yep.

Oh, boy. Yeah, I saw this probably a month, like

right before Christmas is when I saw this, 1996.

I had gone to, and the funny part about this,

this was a Wednesday church group. We all piled

in the van. We went to this movie theater in

Ocala, Florida, because I was living in Florida

at the time with my mom. And this was back, folks,

when luxury seating, seats that actually recline,

were like a new thing. So we went to this theater

in Ocala, Florida. and watched Star Trek First

Contact. This is by far my favorite of the TNG

movies. I would say it's the strongest of the

TNG movies, followed by Generations. Yeah, I

will definitely agree with that. I mean, I like

Generations, and it's a good film. I absolutely

love that, but this being... To my knowledge,

and again, you're the diehard, so you can correct

me here, a somewhat original story for the film.

I don't think it was taken from anything else,

was it? Not really, but the lady that they communicated

with in that timeline more or less said, Captain

Ahab's got to get his whale. Yeah. But no, I

mean, the majority of it was that this was the

first time you see the Borg queen. Yeah. You

get to see her a ton in Voyager, but among other

TNG actors that you get to see in Voyager. But

no. It was very horror -esque, but it was also

kind of cool getting to see the Zephram Cochran

in the creation of the Phoenix, the first warp

flight vehicle. And then you get these cool new

uniforms. You get the Enterprise E that's much

more battle -oriented, streamlined. You get to

see more of a nightmare of Picard reliving his

assimilation. You get to see Worf. commander

of the, uh, defiant, um, being left adrift and

picking wharf up and the survivors to the enterprise.

Um, it was, it was very, uh, very well done writing

and directing. It gave more of a serious tone

to, uh, TNG, which it like, Generations had kind

of that TOS, TNG kind of look to it. This definitely

has more of a Deep Space Nine kind of grungy

look to it. And they kind of hold that through

the rest of the TNG films. And you get to see

the holographic doctor in this from Voyager,

which was cool. Damn it, I'm a doctor, not a

doorstop. And then he's like... I hear those

implants can cause severe skin rash and irritation

as a distraction. Picard gets his own captain's

vest, kind of like Kirk in the previous film,

as they're going through blocking off the Borg

from the ship. It was kind of cool seeing the

holodeck being used the way that he used it.

Yeah, that was cool. Very cool. But, I mean,

you get a little bit of everything in this film.

You got the spacesuits, you got the holodeck,

you got Data getting to be more human, you got

Borg, you got just the pre -Warp flight Riker

having to deal with, and Troy and LaForge dealing

with Zephram Cochran, who's like... A complete

drunk. And like, to heck with this. I'm not dealing

with it. Funny thing about this film, though,

is part of it actually, because this takes place

back in this time era, it takes place before

Enterprise. Wait, how is that possible? Because

Enterprise takes place 100 years after this.

This is the year 2063, when they go back in time.

And the funny thing is in Enterprise they use

this because remember how the Borg ship kind

of crashed and some of the Borg ended up on the

planet? Well, some of the Borg ended up on the

planet in an area where they were frozen for

over 100 years and they're caught in Enterprise.

So actually Enterprise gets to have another encounter

with the Borg which first contact and, uh, and

enterprise kind of caused the Borg to know of

humans in the first place because it was kind

of one of those weird back to the future paradoxical

moments. Yeah. Um, but, uh, they referenced that

from Cochran talking about aliens from the future,

trying to come back in time and stop the flight

and humans from the future trying to, and then

they, they referenced that anyways, and enterprise

and, So overall, I mean, the way they tie the

continuity with Star Trek, they do very well

for how much mythos they have with it. But I

would say this was by far one of the strongest

of the films. And it was directed by Jonathan

Frakes, William T. Riker. That's one of the coolest

things about Star Trek. And most franchises that

are as old as Star Trek is. where eventually

some of the lead, depending on what the show

is, some of the lead actors or the lead actor

will then go on to do production behind -the

-camera stuff for it. Shatner directed how many

of these? Two or three of them? Shatner only

did one. Okay. Nicholas Meyer did two. Leonard

Nimoy did two. Jonathan Frakes did two. Did two,

yeah. With First Contact, I think my favorite

part is when they finally get one of my favorite

parts. I got a lot of favorite parts in this

one. I think probably my number one is right

when Cochran and Riker and Geordi all get in

the Phoenix and they're getting ready to take

off. Lo and behold, Steppenwolf's Magic Carpet

Ride starts playing, and I'm like, oh, hell yes.

That's awesome that in 2063 we will still have

Magic Carpet Ride. But, yeah, Cochran was pretty

cool. And then I like how Troy got drunk. Trying

to talk reason into him. Then Riker's just like,

do -do -do -do -do. Yep. And at one point, Geordi

overwhelms Cochran. Yeah. Oh, your statue will

be right over there. Yeah. Oh, okay. I got to

go take a leak. He's like, I don't detect any

leak. He's like, don't you pee in the 24th century?

And then he's like, oh. And then he backs away.

Cochran starts to run, and then Riker's like,

we don't have time for this, and he just uses

the stun on him. Yep. Yeah, James Cromwell has

such a great body of work. I know he's been in

a ton of movies. I think the only one I can think

of right now without actually looking him up

is he played the Doctor in I, Robot. The doctor

that died and I rolled out in the room again.

I just watched a movie with him recently where

he was told he couldn't build a house in his

own land by the government and he's like just

building it anyway. I've been building houses

like this for the last and it was based on a

true story so it was kind of funny. That's awesome.

But yeah. Yeah, this film overall was really,

really good and very polished, and it kind of

showed Picard's weakness with the Borg. Yeah.

That was never really fully explained after the

fact. Yeah. And then they pulled a Spock moment

in this movie with Data, where Picard says, our

orders are... blah, blah, blah, blah, and they

just like, you know, to hell with our orders.

And that's what Spock says in Undiscovered Country

when they're supposed to go back to space dock.

I mean, okay, not, obviously, Geordi and Scotty

are two very different characters. Obviously,

Riker and either Sulu or Chekov or whoever. They're

all different characters. Both casts are completely

different. They are, except for Spock and Data.

They're very similar in some ways. Yes, Data

is an android. Yes, Spock is a Vulcan. But, I

mean, they're both logical. Unless Data has his

emotion chip in, he is essentially an all -logical

Vulcan android. Really, if you think about it.

That was said in Encounter at Firepoint, the

first episode of TNG by McCoy when he's receiving

a tour from Data. And Data starts telling him

something. McCoy says to him, you don't have

no points on them ears, boy, but you sound like

a Vulcan. And then he says... No, I'm an android.

And he says, almost as bad. Yep. Yeah. First

Contact. I gotta give it a 5 out of 5. I love

this movie. This is one... As long as it stays

on Hulu, I will go back and watch every so often.

Like, maybe once every six months if I'm really

in the need to watch something Star Trek TNG

film -wise. What about you for rating on this

one? I'll give it a five out of five. It was

really good. All right. Let's get into the insurrection.

Oh, boy. You've said this, and other people have

said this. It's basically a two -hour TNG episode.

Uh -huh. And it really isn't that bad, honestly.

It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to

be. Well, it's directed by Jonathan Frakes. Yep.

And the screenplay is by Michael Piller, who

used to write for the show. Right. So he was

the executive producer of TNG, co -creator of

DS9 and Voyager. So go figure. That being said.

It feels like a very run -on episode of TNG.

The intro, the outro, the comedy, the way that

things are portrayed, the way that it looks a

lot cheaper than First Contact. They have the

Riker shaving his face thing in there. And he's

like, smooth as the baby's bottom. And Data touches

his face and he shakes his head and then walks

away. you know that they had that gag going in

there um they have data damaged in it um uh i

guess i should get into it but it says the the

dominion war ravages the alpha quadrant an idyllic

planet in the middle of an unstable region within

federation space serves as home to the peaceful

baku and a veritable fountain of youth when the

sona and the war -torn federation plan to exploit

the planet too rejuvenate themselves. Picard

and the crew of the Enterprise must rebel against

the Federation in order to save the Baku and

expose the atrocities that are about to take

place. What's funnier yet is the Baku and the

Sona are the exact same species. The only difference

is the Sona because they aren't living on the

planet. Uh, and they, they left the planet. They're

actually the children of the Baku, uh, who didn't

want to be under their rule anymore because their

leader, uh, they did the face stretching thing

in order to preserve their skin. Yeah. Take out

the wrinkles, even though they're like old as

dirt. Yeah. Um, while their parents still look

pretty young and Picard's like, I feel younger

here. And Geordi actually develops eyeballs.

Yes, he does. Which he got the ocular implant

sometime between Generations and First Contact,

which he still has to this day as far as I know.

Although I think they look more human in later

renditions. Yeah, and honestly, that's fine.

Once the visor was gone, I still love Geordi

as a character. I always will. That'll never

change. And I like that they're allowing him

to grow and to change. you know all of that when

the ocular implants they just creeped me out

at first when we first saw them but now that

you know he actually has actual eyes where you

don't have to see an implant to for him to still

do his his tech stuff that he does you know that's

star trek technology you know it's ever -changing

I like their new dress uniforms for this era.

The white outfits. Yeah, the white outfits are

cool. Which they have those in Star Trek Online.

If you unlock the role of ambassador, you get

to use those. I still haven't gotten that far

yet, but I really want those. But I think it's

really funny when they have to put that thing

over Picard's head. That bead looking thing.

Yeah. And Admiral Doherty is a dirtbag. He is,

very much so. He gets his anyway, so it's kind

of funny. And then, yeah, this makes it the second

villain that Picard's had to kind of take care

of solo for the most part. Although I would argue

the last film, Data, helped. But yeah, it was

kind of cool seeing the Enterprise crew. It was

really funny seeing Worf reverting. Yeah, that

was funny. But yeah, the whole film, it wasn't

bad or anything. It just felt like a run -on

TNG episode. Yeah, I mean, I enjoyed it. I thought

it was interesting. I thought, again, seeing...

Picard with a potential love interest was kind

of fun. And I'm sure he's had others in the series.

I just have to go back and actually watch the

series for a refresher on that. It was cool seeing

the Enterprise crew being rebellious, kind of

like Star Trek 3. Yep. So. Absolutely. Instant

action, four out of five, I guess. I liked it.

I'll give it a 4 out of 5 only because if you

would have asked me this a year ago I would have

said 2 out of 5. I would have said this film

was terrible. But having gone back and watched

it in the past month and a half I genuinely enjoy

it. So See, I kind of, even though they're not

going home, I kind of liken this to the voyage

home just a little bit. Because they're not out

in space fighting Romulans or Klingons or whatever.

They're, you know, kind of, you know, they're

trying to figure out what's wrong with these

people. Why are these other people attacking

these people? And it's... Kinda how I felt about

The Voyage Home as well. Obviously the whole

San Francisco thing with Takei and I should say

Sulu and all that and everything else. Obviously

this isn't a full -on time travel film, but yeah,

that's one of the reasons why I liked it. I gotta

say, probably so far out of nine of them, Final

Frontier is the only one I kind of don't really

care for. I mean, I don't really care for the

motion picture either, because that's just visual

effects and music with no story. But as far as

plot -wise, I would say 5 is the only one so

far that I don't really give a crap for. There's

aspects of... I used to think 5 was the worst

one, but... Yeah, we'll get to that. Yeah. All

right. Star Trek X Nemesis. AKA the death of

the franchise. Yeah, this was 15 years ago. Yeah.

So it's the 10th of 13 Star Trek films released

in December of 2002. The last one I saw in the

theater. Well, not the last one, but the last

one I saw at that point. I did see the recent

ones in the theater. This one is Captain Jean

-Luc Picard and the crew of the Enterprise -E

become involved within the Romulan Star Empire's

new leader Praetor Shinzon makes overtures for

peace with the Federation. Surprisingly, Shinzon

is not from Romulus, but from Remus, a native

of a darkness -shrouded twin world of Romulus.

But he is not even a normal Reman at that. Picard

faces a new very personal enemy and the Enterprise

E is tasked with preventing a costly re -ignition

of war between the Empire and the Federation.

After finding out that he was a decorated war

hero during the Dominion War. And the fact that

he's a human clone. Yeah, he's a clone of Picard.

This one, the Janeway reference, her showing

up was kind of cool, even though I've never really

been a fan of Voyager. I will, again, give that

a try one of these days. Early on, it's hard

to swallow, but when you get past, like, second

season, you get into third season and beyond,

it kind of gets better. I mean... But, yeah,

I mean, it's... It's got its moments. Yeah, it's

got its moments, and I think that's the problem

with the movie, is that Shinzon, like, what does

he really want other than to, you know, be one

with Picard? No, he needs Picard's blood, a complete

100 % transfusion in order to live. Yeah. Because

Picard, they caught his disease early enough

in his youth that he was able to be cured of

it. Whereas Shinzon, they didn't know about that.

So he needs a complete transfusion in order to

survive. And this is all the while that Troi

and Riker got married. And Riker's about to go

to the USS Titan. Yep. Worf is going to go back

to DS9, albeit temporarily, until he decides

to become an ambassador from the Federation in

the last episode of DS9. And then you get Wesley

showing up at the wedding table. Is that the

only time you see him? Yeah. And it's funny because

Picard's giving the toast and then he's like,

Mr. Data, shut up. I've waited seven years to

say that. And so that's kind of entertaining.

And then the film as a whole isn't that bad.

You get to have the Romulans working with the

Federation, working with the Enterprise to take

on Shinzon. And I love that Picard's just like.

The ship's blown away pretty much, and he rams

the ship into Shinzans. And then Data having

to find another Soong -type robot in B9, or B4.

They call him B4. In the book, in the screenplay,

it was B9 was the name of the thing, so it still

sticks in my head even after this much time.

But Data does a complete brain transfusion, basically.

With B4, yeah. Yeah, and it's interesting in

that regard because he essentially preserves

himself, which you don't get the payoff from

that in this film. No. But you get it in the

comics and in Star Trek Online. Because Data

is still very much alive. It took him, I guess,

five or ten years to get Data's memory to resurface

completely. Because LaForge goes off on leave

to help Starfleet get Data back out of before.

And they upgrade the robot back to Data's specifications.

And then he becomes the captain of the Enterprise

-E. Oh, okay. Yeah, I kind of felt like that

was a whole Spock, Meinmel, McCoy thing. I think

that we're going to do something with that, but

unfortunately the film franchise crapped out

after this point. Well, yeah, but I'm saying

once he started singing at the end and Picard's

like, oh, hmm, okay. After I saw him doing that,

I'm like, oh, even though we didn't actually...

We saw Data working on B4, but we didn't see

what he was actually doing to him. So that's

why I kind of felt like it was a Spock -McCoy

mind -meld kind of thing. Nemesis overall, I

enjoyed it. I wasn't in pain watching this, but

at the same time, it's not the best. Star Trek

film. Obviously, like you said, it basically

killed the franchise for, you know, six years.

But I did enjoy a lot of it. I like seeing, you

know, Riker and Troy. I thought that was kind

of fun. I thought that was kind of funny. Three

and a half out of five, maybe? I give it a four.

Like I said, it's got its moments. There are

certain aspects that make it kind of crap. And

a lot of it had to do with the Viceroy and Shinzon

going against Picard for the most part. And then

trying to mind -rape Troi. Yeah, that was a little

much. Because he was just a... Like a teenage

creeper. And I love how Data essentially tells

Picard who just watched Shinzon impale himself

at the end and Data's like goodbye and teleports

Picard out and then blows away the Thaleron device.

Yeah. And they're all, you know, they were on

the bridge and... And Picard's kind of watching

from the back. Everything go on, and they all

toast to Data and whatnot. Yeah, this is the

second time that Picard's had his ship get whacked

out, pretty much. I mean, it was at least limping

back to Starfleet. And then they sent Riker out

to the neutral zone, too. head out the task force

there with the Romulans. So the Romulans don't

really get serious, though, until the timeline

of Star Trek Online, which may be a fun topic

to tackle on Future Imperfect. Yeah, Future Imperfect,

something like that. Yeah. Two stars in this

that I completely did not really even... I mean,

I knew they were here, but I didn't know they

were here. Ron Perlman as Viceroy. Yep. Hellboy

as the Viceroy. Yeah, I thought that was kind

of funny. Yeah. And the other one, director Brian

Singer as Kelly. Oh, nice. Yep. Mr. X -Men himself

as as Kelly whoever the hell Kelly is because

like I said I don't even I didn't even remember

him from the movie so yeah so we're gonna take

a quick break come back with uh final thoughts

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your insurance company will cover that. No, they

won't. No, they probably won't. All righty then,

we are back, and that is the TNG films for Star

Trek here in episode 139 of MWire. Overall, I

gotta say, I enjoyed re -watching all four of

these. I like some better than others. If I was

going to rank them best to worst, it would go

First Contact, Generations, basically go in order,

Insurrection and The Nemesis. Because the plot

of Nemesis was just a little too creepy for me.

I don't know. Like I said, there's a lot of aspects

about this one. I can't really knock it all that

much. I know they had Whoopi in this and they

had... Lwaxana Troy, who's Majel Barrett, who

voices the computer and is Roddenberry's wife

and who played Nurse Chapel and Number One in

the original series. Oh, that's cool. Little

nods like that. I mean, throwing the creator's

wife into a film. Well, she was in the very first

original pilot as the first officer. Yeah. But

NBC didn't want that. They only wanted to keep

Spock out of the whole thing, and that's why

you got Kirk and the rest of the crew. So she

was recast as Nurse Chapel. And then in TNG,

she became Troy's mom. Well, that's cool. So,

and then she's been the computer like up until

pretty much every series except for Star Trek

Beyond and this new one. So, yeah. All right.

Like I said, I do enjoy. All four of these films,

as I said, I like some better than others. There

are some I'll go back to and watch and some I

won't. Yeah, I mean, they're fun things to go

back and take a look at and see. And we talked

about this last time. We're going to talk about

it next time as well. You know, you've got, you

know, the odds are bad, the evens are good. Nemesis

wasn't that... It was okay. I'll say it was okay.

It wasn't horrible. It wasn't as bad as I was

thinking it was going to be. It didn't bore me

to tears like Final Frontier did. Now, one of

the funnier... There's some funny deleted scenes

in the end of the movie. One of them being Picard

meets his new First Officer. Who was originally

going to be Data. Oh, wow. But because Data's

obviously incapacitated, he had a new first officer.

Can't remember the guy's name. Not really worth

remembering. Yeah. But because he was only in

that last, like, two seconds. And you have Geordi

and Worf. and Riker's on the bridge leaving Picard's

ready room as they're in space dock and Riker's

asking permission to disembark. And the new first

officer talks to Riker and says, so what should

I know about him? He's like, well, he loves to

be called Jean -Luc, and then starts giving him

all this terrible advice of things not to say.

It was just because Riker was so accustomed to

him that he could get away with it at this point.

Oh, absolutely. And prior to that, he couldn't.

So it was rather funny watching that take place.

He turns around and he's like, I take it what

Captain Riker told me is not correct. And the

others just start laughing. Worf and Geordi kind

of smirk. And Picard gives his look. And then

they install a new captain's chair. And Worf

and Geordi are like, no, Picard likes his chair.

And then Picard sits in it and presses a button.

And it shows a seatbelt come over. And he's like,

well, it's about time. So, yeah, there's some

alternate ending stuff. There's another alternate

ending showing the Enterprise warping away. So,

I mean, there's a couple other. scenes they're

in but overall it was it i felt like some of

those things should have been left in because

it would have strengthened part of the end of

it but yeah yeah this was what this was 2002

right yeah this was way beyond the series 7 season

right oh yeah season 7 ended in 93 yeah okay

really yeah okay generations came out 94 that's

right that's right okay If this was going to

be the final TNG, which it is, obviously, but,

I mean, if they weren't going to do an 11 or

if they weren't going to reboot it, I mean, for

the ending of this film, it was a fairly good

send -off. I mean, yeah, you're right. I think

some of those deleted scenes could have been

left in there. You know, that would have been

fine. I gotta say, though, the uniforms in the

movie... They look more gray. And in the banner

that you made for this episode, they look more

purple to me. It depends on the lighting. Yeah,

I know. Some of the funnier things, besides the

Janeway bit... They did recycle some lines in

this, though. Like the Riker employs the Kirkman

over. And then discusses the war with the Dominion.

And Janeway is talking about the USS Archer.

Which was named after Captain Archer. And then

you get the scene in Star Trek 3 where Kirk is

saying to absent friends. Or absent comrades

and whatnot. And they reuse that. And this device,

the Thaleron device, which is a killing device,

unlike Genesis, is kind of mirroring Wrath of

Khan, in a sense. Which Spock sacrifices himself.

Yeah, we're going to get another mirror next

week. Yeah, I know. Riker defeating Shinzon's

viceroy is almost reminiscent of the way Kirk

defeated Crudge in Search for Spock, which I

caught that similarity very quickly. And then

they reuse part of the motion picture when the

Enterprise is in the dry dock being repaired.

It's funny that... Some of the stuff that I kind

of want to mention from the set props and whatnot,

the Enterprise E -Bridge was set on gimbals during

the production to allow for more realistic movement

during battle. So the lurching movements made

by the actors is actually happening. It's actual

authentic movement because the ship is moving.

So they're compensating. The interiors for sickbay

and crew quarters were new sets built for the

film, whereas previous... First Contact and Insurrection,

they reused USS Voyager stuff, just redressed.

There was a lot of reused stuff from Voyager

and from Deep Space Nine. And there was a new,

darker scheme for the set and for the L -cars.

They just had a lot of stuff like that. Like

I said, it's not the strongest film, but it's

the last TNG film, so I kind of hold it in higher

regard than it probably should be just because

it's TNG. Right, yeah. But even the actors say

that the film sucked. Like I said, it's a little

strange for a film because it focuses solely

on Picard, you know. And Data. Well, yeah, and

Data, but I mean, majority of the villain plot

for this is Picard. I mean, yes, Data does have

his moments and his part in it. I'm not discounting

that. I'm just saying that... Yeah, it's just

one of those things where... It's kind of a mix

of both, you're right, but... I just felt that

it was more Picard than Data on this. Well, and

then the film also is between this and Star Trek

Enterprise is the reason why Star Trek bombed.

So it says that LeVar Burton was on record saying

that the film sucked and Marina Sirtis backed

about by criticizing Stuart Baird for not watching

a single episode of TNG, according to Burton

and several other members of the cast. Baird

kept referring to LeVar as Laverne throughout

production and thought the character of Geordi

was an alien. Oh my god. And the fact that it

was released during the time that Enterprise

was being badly received, it added considerable

weight to the campaign at the most. partisan

fans to vigorously pursue the removal of the

current leadership of the franchise from their

positions including rick berman brandon braga

um and the entire staff not even the uh not even

the final frontier could provoke such a uh reaction

um but uh picard right current data said that

they're like working with the director nonetheless

but Yeah, I could have used another TNG film.

Yeah. It would have been fun. It would have been

fun. So next week, we've got episode 139 .5.

The Kelvin Universe. Yeah, we weren't actually

going to do this right away. 138, 139, we're

going to be it. And then 140 is going to be me

and JT talking about Tango and Cash. But we are

going to do the Kelvin Universe, all three films

so far in the Kelvin Universe. I think things

are going to get heated in that podcast, folks.

Some things I agree with, some things I don't.

So you'll just have to tune in next week. Where

can the people find you online, sir? At SCP -21

on the Twitters. I am at TF2andMike on Twitter.

You can follow at GCR and MWire on Twitter, and

just follow at GeekCastRadio for all your network

updates. Keep those film reels rolling, and we

will see you in the Kelvin universe next week.

No! Okay, then. Are you out of your Vulcan mind?

So until next time. Unleash the geek in you.

In a world... There, I said it. Happy?