Another Thin Man and Shadow of the Thin Man Review

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Hello and welcome to M -Wire movie weekend review.

This is episode 108. I'm your host TFGO and Mike

and joining me is Jeremy Fine. Hello. Did you

kill my Mr. Church? I love this movie. Yes, and

this is... the double feature part two of the

thin man franchise because this 2014 is the 80th

year since the first thin man came out and we

are celebrating 80 years of the thin man As we

said in the last episode, we are so glad that

Hollywood has decided to leave this one alone

for the most part. There were those crazy rumors

that Edward Scissorhands was going to become

Nick Charles and that would never... all the

rules he has ever played that would never flipping

work you know i had nightmares for a while that

tim burton was going to directed and that uh...

helen bonnet carter was going to be more always

character i just can't picture that i do know

that there was a thin man t .v. show that wasn't

a good yeah and i heard rumors that i d w was

going to try to do a miniseries of thin man,

but I don't know. When did you hear that? I heard

it. It was a word on the street. I would say

about two or three weeks ago at a comic book

store. I had brought it up because I was at my

local comic book store, Captain Blue Hen. And

of course, I mentioned that I'm a huge fan of

IDW because, you know, IDW and Nostalgia go great

together. So somebody who I'm going to rename

nameless right now because I don't know how reliable

is. Guy said that there was a rumor that IDW

was taking suggestions. One of them being Thin

Man, because apparently there were other Thin

Man fans out there, but I don't know how they

would work exactly. I don't know if they would

try to... Well, here's the thing about IDW. I

don't know what they're gonna... If they even

do it, I don't know what they're gonna do, but

if they can make... Game characters who only

grunt and snicker and laugh and and not really

have any words to say other than a giant emperor

pig I'm sure They could make the thin men work

if they can make angry words work in comic form

they can make anything work And let's not forget

and I said this in the last retrospective the

thin man movies were all about character actor

from vaudeville that had mugs and speaking of

three stooges shamp Howard has a cameo in this

movie I believe he yes he does he's actually

and we'll get to that but one of my favorite

characters is Abner Beiberman is dumb dumb he's

awesome in this yes I mean this is this is when

you really have You know today you have underwear

models and you just have everybody it's number

12 looks just like you and back then Just like

beaten with an ugly stick and they worked and

they acted and you can hear it in their voices

I mean they were seasoned and I feel that you

know, there's there's no way Johnny Depp could

pull William Powell off There's not there's no

way Johnny Depp could pull Nick Charles off as

a character, you know And I'm not saying there

isn't someone out there in Hollywood that could

do William Powell's character justice, but here's

the thing. It's the greatest thing about these

films They live on in infamy because of the writing

because of the acting Because of the personalities

of the characters and you see them grow over

these six films, you know, some people will say

oh well The thin man the original and the song

of the thin man and the only good ones I slightly

disagree that they're all good in varying degrees

I will say that the thin man and the song of

the thin man are the two best in my opinion But

You know, I still love them all and I just don't

see If IDW does this I'd just be another another

book I buy from them because What they'll what

they can do is they can make it they don't need

to make it a color comic They can make it a black

and white comic. Oh, it'll definitely work as

film noir Yeah, and they yep film noir and they

as long as they have writers That have watched

these six films and get the characterizations

of Nick and Nora down pat and all the other characters

like, like, um, Gill, Lieutenant Gill and Lieutenant

Abrams and all the regular characters that usually

show up that aren't the villains. Um, you know,

as long as they get that down pat, and what I

would love to see IDW do, if they did this, oh

my god, now that you even told me this, I have

so many damn... damn ideas I would love them

to see them in like if they do like a six issue

miniseries or if it turns into if they did an

ongoing it would be amazing if they did an ongoing

thin man book you could take do one mystery within

that mystery there's maybe one or two scenes

of Nick Nora, Nicky Jr. and Asta then you can

take Asta and spin him out into his own miniseries

I would love, you know, as much as I don't care

for Hawkeye's pizza dog issue, I would love to

read a comic book with Asta and Mrs. Asta and

their adventures. That would be amazing. It would

be. And to trail off for a minute, I mean, I

do know they have tried this with the dog sidekick,

I mean, with Pluto, and it's worked well. Even

when they tried it with Married with Children

comics in the 90s, Bud had his own spin -off

like a couple issues I could see Asta and Nora

especially since Nora we know why she's with

Nick because she came from a stuffy family and

you can tell towards the end she's all about

the adventure she doesn't think she just like

jump And and and it almost You know cost her

a life and song but this one This is one of my

favorite Nora moments this movie, especially,

you know when we get to that part, too But I

could ask them the only complaint they have about

him, especially when we get the song I don't

know, and Asta, there's only so many times you

can see him like run and hide and duck and you

can see that stop motion animation that they

do with him. It's okay for a while, but they

would have to do a lot more from him than just

like, you know, putting his - Oh no, what I'm

saying is, if it was, if you had a thin man ongoing,

and you split Asta off for a six issue miniseries,

it would focus on him, Mrs. Asta, and their kids,

and their adventures. That's what it would focus

on because Asta Has all kinds of other adventures

outside of even dealing with Nick and Nora Okay,

so that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that

it would just be You know him running around

and hiding. I'm saying you know Make him the

starring character of a six -year miniseries.

That would be awesome I still have to contact

my IGW people and see if see if this is actually

true because holy crap That would be amazing.

All right, so In this part two of the double

feature for the thin man we're going to talk

about another thin man and shadow the thin man

first up is the Trailer for another thin man

will be back after this Mommy, this is Creeps

Binder. Remember? Creeps, yeah. Creeps, you remember?

Nick sent me up the river. Oh. Well, it's nice

you don't feel bad about it. Why should I? Gee,

it took a genius to outsmart me. You don't want

to touch me? I got rid of all those reporters.

What'd you tell them? Told them we were out of

scotch. What a gruesome thought. Alright, so

first up is another Thin Man, which is the 1939

third film in the six -volume series of The Thin

Man. Again, stars obviously William Powell and

Myrna Loy. That is Nick and Nora Charles, and

is based on the writings of Dashiell Hammett.

Their son Nicky Jr. is also introduced in this

film. The cast includes their Terrier Asta, Virginia

Grey, Otto Krueger, C. Aubrey Smith, Ruth Hussey,

Nate Pendleton, Patrick Knowles, Sheldon Leonard,

Tom Neal, Phyllis Gordon, and Marjorie Mayne.

The basic plot of this one is, and this is again

something that is so hilarious to me like I mentioned

in the last episode, in episode 106 of MWIRE,

where Nick is always put into positions that

he doesn't want to be put into. In the first

movie, he didn't want to be bothered with the

Winant case. In the second movie, he, because

of the animosity between him and Nora's family,

wanted nothing to do with Nora's family. I mean,

of course, sure, he's gonna step up and do the

right thing in what's supposed to be done and

catch the murderer. But in this one, it's Colonel

McVerb... colonel or lieutenant or i think it's

colonel colonel mcveigh and apparently this is

the guy who nick is running his finances former

keeping track of that and i know nick says in

the beginning of the movie now all's he gonna

have me do is that i look at the financial statement

but i'm not sure if it's Financial statements

for McVeigh or if I don't know I didn't quite

get the relationship between McVeigh and the

Charles family I think that they're supposed

to be family friends that Colonel McVeigh and

and the and the Charles's go back years So that's

what it's supposed to be but for finances. I

think it's because The Colonel trusts the Charles

because he doesn't trust his family so much So

it has to do with he's asked Nick over the years

to just you know double check and look over the

finances because he said his daughter Which we'll

get into yeah the daughter and and the fiance

it's one of those yeah So that's that's it then

because I wasn't sure if it was that I mean I

knew about the daughter and the fiance and all

that stuff, but I wasn't sure if it was that

or If it was not that the Colonel could actually

do this, but if it was the other way around where

the Colonel was managing Nora's money, but We've

I mean that that's kind of stupid because it's

already been disproved because Nick is pretty

much the one that takes care of all that He said

it in the first film you know her father died

and left her oh several other things and I manage

them now, so I can see now, now that you point

that out, why McVeigh would turn to Nick. It's

interesting, Nick, he's not a... I wouldn't say

Nick Charles isn't every man, because not every

man is a functioning alcoholic like he is. And

they take drinking so light in these movies.

I mean, I get it because of the time period and

everything else, but if you look at it, and that's

the other reason why I don't think a updated

version of The Thin Man would ever friggin' work.

It's because of how they approach drinking and

how they approach marriage. and and and marital

affairs back you know in you know as we said

last time the first movie he basically back hands

her to save her from being shot at when morelli

put you know pops in uh... in the apartment so

i i honestly think that these movies have way

too many themes that nowadays all these uh...

conservative groups would find very unappealing

So, they're still in New York, because that's

where they live. Uh, she gets a call, Nora gets

a call from McVeigh. He wants them to come down

to Long Island. Now, I assume they're in New

York City proper. Is it really two hours drive

from New York City proper to Long Island? Well,

for me, I mean, I was living in Staten Island

at the time, so... I mean, you would have to

go to the Verrazano Bridge to go into Brooklyn

to go to Long Island, but from Manhattan. Yeah,

I mean, especially since back then. You didn't

have GPS is anyway. The whole thing is it's also

supposed to be a comedy that this is supposed

to be a typical nervous chauffeur. So the whole

idea is that he's nervous and they want to they

want to make the sense to. Traumatic so They're

trying to build up all the suspense about okay

It's gonna take us a couple hours to get to Long

Island because all these people coming in and

out of the apartment Including this guy who claims

that he's maintenance for the apartment, which

I love and it turns out It's a former crook that

Nick happened to put in jail And that's one of

the gags that I love is that we see that there

are former criminals that Nick put in jail But

now they're out and they're like the best of

friends and Nick just shrugs it off Yeah, which

is okay. It's simple. It's supposed to you know

diffuse the tension I assume I guess it's supposed

to be like with Marx Brothers where they put

everybody into that cabinet at night of the opera

Yeah, and of course we get a stooge we get shampowered

because he is also supposed to be an accomplice

with this maintenance man who's supposed to help

rob the apartment and Then they're trying to

make amends and they find out that Nick and Nora

have a kid So they claim they're gonna bring

their kids and have this birthday party for Nick

and Nora's, you know for Nicky jr. Which I love

yeah, that was That was a hilarious scene and

they just bring kids Like, they just happen to

bring kids there. And then the cops come, and

they go like, okay, like... And Nick is warning

these guys to get the kids out of there, so...

Well, he's warning them to get themselves out

of there and take the kids with them. And in

all this confusion, somehow... I forget what

the kid's name is, but somehow, Nicky Jr. ends

up going with one of the crooks, and some...

Raphael, that's what it was... because of the

stupid warm all around the uh... yeah the better

it'd be better if you had a red bandana turtle

shell uh... we're going to get there next week

but yeah uh... so yes so they do this whole baby

swap thing uh... but but we get to the the thing

with the show for of course yeah individual for

of course And of course we see that typical body

in the road in Long Island at night, yeah. Which

Nick just shrugs off as usual, because he wants

nothing to do with it. Yeah, pretty much. And

then of course we get to the classic family,

the Colonel McFay and suspicious characters.

Which, I love Colonel McFay. He's played by Audrey

Smith, which was a great character actor. Yeah.

He has an interesting history, too. Let me guess

he's tied to the Stooges somehow. What happened?

I said let me guess he's tied to the Stooges

somehow. No, he's not tied to the Stooges somehow,

but he's also a classic vaudeville actor. Between

him and William Powell, he was this great character.

They had some great character timing together,

so that's pretty much why he's in the movie.

Sadly, they kill him off way too early. Because

it has to be, he's afraid that somebody's going

to kill him because he has all this money and

he's leaving it. You know, he may be leaving

it to the daughter, but the daughter, of course,

has the suspicious fiance that may or may not

be writing a mystery novel. You have, of course,

Mr. Church, who we didn't talk about yet, who

apparently has these dreams. And every time he

dreams, like the third and final dream that he

has, he has these premonitions. And every time

that he dreams, he feels that somebody that he

knows in his travels are going to die. So he

has decided to pick the Colonel. And Church,

of course, is scary and intimidating by himself

because the way he's delivering these lines.

And I believe he's Cuban. Yeah, which by the

way back then you could go to Cuba. This is before

of course you know the Cuban Missile Crisis and

everything So it wasn't uncommon and of course

he's got his loyal servant dum -dum and and dum

-dum of course is another great character actor

and He's very loyal to church, so you have this

whole setup of this is again, a talking movie,

where you can sit and talk in the theater and

go, okay, we know this set up. Church has got

to be the one who killed McFay because Church

has mentioned he has all these premonitions.

Well, maybe it's Dum Dum because Dum Dum is loyal

and Dum Dum is going to do it so Church doesn't

get in trouble. Or maybe it is the, you know,

the fiance to, because he's going to be marrying

McVeigh's daughter and and you know gain the

fortune so It's one of those movies where you

don't mind what people talking in the theater

and you don't tell them to shut up Because you

don't know who the murder is and why like what

would the real motivation be? Yeah Yeah, that's

true and again, I love all of the scenes in this

movie. I mean, they're so good They just are

because you have all this stuff and a lot of

this stuff with the mystery happens outside this

felt like Outside not like it's not just you

know someone going into a building and shooting

somebody or someone hiding in a apartment or

somebody burying a body You know under the staircase

or like that that chase scene was really cool

in the beginning and then they found the dead

dog which is really sad well the dog they wanted

to do of course at that time it's graphic it

was graphic then it's graphic now but i understand

why they did it to throw you know to cause confusion

which is great um but you can you can even tell

that you know once the murderer confesses they

they said you know we went too far which is fine

but again i i think the The most interesting

character in this movie has to go hands down

to dumb dumb. Oh absolutely dumb dumb is basically

what The you bet you guy was in the last movie

yeah he has more of a personality as well as

when we get to the Rio Club scene where Nor decides

that she's going to try to uncover a clue because

nor of course wants to help nor Enjoys this fast

-paced life. She knows that Nick is retired He

doesn't want to get involved But but she can't

wait to get up and and and if it were up to her

she would solve the case on her own She's wrong

half the time, but you got to love her spirit

And I just love when she goes to the Rio Club

and she meets this guy who may or may not be

able to give her a tip and all he wants to do

is just dance with her. And Nick is just in the

club and he's just sitting there nonchalantly

and he's pretending like he doesn't know nor

and nor keeps looking at Nick and You know this

guy becomes suspicious and jealous and everything

and Nick is just sitting there smoking You know

a cigarette and drinking and then he sees dumb

dumb and then there's this drunk who's trying

to tell Something about church and dumb dumb,

of course being loyal and we know how loyal dumb

dumb is we've mentioned that You know, he starts

to attack and then all of a sudden the lights

go out and they come back on and Nick is dancing

with Nora. And I love the line. He's like, Hello,

darling. Remember me? It's your husband. And,

you know, the pacing in this is amazing because

it does take a while, but it builds and builds

and it pays off. Oh, so much. I mean, like, like

this was one that like with the last one. had

a sneaking suspicion even when I you know it

had been years since I'd seen after the thin

man but I still remember seeing it and I don't

remember everything about it but I really remember

that oh yeah of course if you're gonna have mr.

it's a wonderful life you got to make him a villain

right with this one I was so totally thrown out

like I mean, I was all over the place with who

I thought could have been the killer. And to

find out who it actually is is like, oh, wow.

Talk about some family drama. Yeah, and we got

to go back to Church as well, because Church

is upset. He wants revenge on the McFay family

because McFay was a lawyer and he accidentally...

It's almost like Cape Fear, where the lawyer

sent... the guy to jail and didn't have all the

information and you know there was a hiccup here

and there and that's the same thing with with

church is that church is upset because of the

hiccup so you figure he's gonna have revenge

on the family but then church disappears and

he's dead so we don't know now who the murderer

is and i feel that builds up the suspense more

and more you know usually the twist ending today

is a dime a dozen but that you know but back

then it really keeps you on your toes You know,

with all these build -ups and pacing back then,

there is a gigantic payoff. And I feel that you're

killing the person who you thought was the murderer,

and rightfully so, is now gone. You think Dum

Dum is gonna come in and, you know, get revenge?

No, he's just still trying to protect Church's

name. Dum Dum is gonna be as loyal as ever. Which

is amazing. So now we don't know who it is, and

now we find out there's this person named Linda

Mills, who happens to be another girlfriend of

Church, who we don't know what her story is.

No we don't. And then of course we get to that

great scene where Noor finally... gets to help

and she gets to help the correct way where they

go to this apartment and Nora brings Asta and

Nick goes but of course they pretend like they

don't know each other like she's gonna rent an

apartment and he's gonna rent an apartment and

they're gonna go to two separate apartments and

I love this scene because this is the one where

Nick is just looking around and all of a sudden

there's a guy who comes in through a window and

he has his back to Nick I mean, Nick, you know,

is back and the guy has the gun to Nick's back

and Nick is just like, he doesn't get scared,

doesn't break a sweat, doesn't get nervous. He

just is like looking at books. You know, it's

like this is typical Nick. Well, yeah, it is

very typical of Nick Charles because you got

to think of it, though. They established in the

first movie. For years and years and years and

years and years, I mean, you know, for at least

several years, maybe five, 10, 15 years, he had

been a detective. He then at some point in those

years met Nora, probably close to the end of

it. And, you know, as I alluded to earlier, he,

you know, he even jokes about it. You know, dude,

I met her at you for your money, you know, et

cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And, um, but Nick

had already been a detective for... Years upon

years before ever meeting Nora so him going back

to do the work in the detective work in these

films Of course, he's not going to you know You

know like jump up and scream or or have a knee

-jerk reaction about someone coming up behind

him and putting a gun in his back because It's

probably happened to him a million times before

Yeah, but again, you know The audience who just

started to watch this, they hear about it. But

they don't really get to see it because there

aren't any prequels to be, you know, how they

met, which is fine because this is a movie, not

a TV series. And that's great. I mean, they never

really do a prequel or flashback of how Nick

and Nora met or what Nick was, you know. They

never put a Young Thin Man series, which is great.

Well right, but what I'm saying is they you don't

need a prequel You don't need to see how they

met what I'm saying is in the first movie They

took all of the establishment in one line when

he said oh I was it I was a detective for many

years And then I met and married Nora and now

I take care of her money. I'm retired You know

he kept saying that the entire film I'm retired

so it's already set up so by the time you get

to this film Another thing, man, you realize

that, oh, hey, him not doing anything when a

gun is put into his back is because of all the

years he had already been doing detective work.

Oh, yeah, I agree. It's just that it's still

funny regardless, even though he says it. Oh,

no, it is. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's still a great

joke, and it still eases the tension. But we

also, of course, get that Nick... because of

his years, he still has the upper hand. He, instead

of trying to knock the gun out, he just called

his police friends and they just came in, which

is great. And we find out that Linda Mills, of

course, is a, you know, an alias as anything

would be in a detective story, and Nick and Nora

get their information and they go. Now, I still

have to go back to that fiance because you figure,

okay, it's gotta be him because he claims he's

writing a mystery novel, yet... every time it's

brought up he doesn't really want to talk about

it and then he just disappears like he doesn't

die or anything he just like he goes away after

a while and then all of a sudden he'll come back

he's he's the the fiance is more of an of an

enigma than um gilbert was creepy in the first

movie because gilbert was off the wall nuts Paul

not Polly Dorothy's brother In the first film

right, but yeah, I mean this is a I mean they

basically set up that same type of character

where you don't know what is or or tech I guess

technically the fiance could be more aligned

with like more compared to Chris Jorgensen because

we didn't know half the crap The entire movie

we didn't know anything about him until the very

end pretty much exactly and of course is one

thing i almost forgot uh... church also threatens

neck if he doesn't leave the case because he

starts giving you know his premonitions of what

could happen to neck and nick of course doesn't

take that lightly and just you know finally smacks

church around a few times but with church out

of the picture we don't have any suspects left

except for this economic you'll win the mills

lois mills which of course we find out who linda

is Mm -hmm and of course we have that typical

You know you can't have a thin man without bringing

all the suspects into one room and going okay

I know what happened and why and here's how it

goes I Still as much as I love all these movies.

I don't know about shadow which we'll be talking

about here in a little while I don't know about

the other two which will be talking about next

time but So far in the three films that we've

had To this point I still think the dinner scene

in the if in the first film is the best one of

Revealing who the murderer was I like the one

and after the thin man this one. I liked it,

but I don't think I Don't think the characters

were as I want to say bright I don't think they

were as colorful as the cast of potential suspects

that we had in The Thin Man. No, you're never

going to be able to go back to that dinner scene.

I mean, you're never going to be able to stop

it. And the problem is that when we get to I

think Thin Man Goes Home... You know, Morilloy

at one point just says, well, this is what always

happens. You know, Nick deduces, he gets all

the facts, he brings all the suspects in, and

then eventually towards the end there's a gunshot.

It's so exciting. And I can, you know, you can

tell how excited Nora is. But this one, unfortunately,

Nick, I don't think that he's phoning it in.

I wouldn't say that. I would just say that in

this case, once you kill off Church, and you

know that Dum Dum, as loyal as he is, He not

to say that you know he lives by his name. He's

just a very loyal person and we'll leave it at

that it had to be somebody that you didn't think

and Unfortunately the person that I go gasp who

it is I have to say I'm disappointed and the

motivation of why that person turned out to be

the killer Because to me it just feels like it's

something that of a serial Yeah, I mean, when

you really think about it, as I said earlier,

I didn't think that that kind of twist was going

to come, that it was going to be, I mean, when

Miles was just saying, it's his daughter. Yeah,

yeah. I mean, I didn't see that coming, but now

looking back on it, not saying that the movie

is bad because of it, but it should have almost

been predictable. I mean. I don't know if you've

ever seen the movie The Hudsucker Proxy. Oh yeah.

We're gonna be doing that at some point. I don't

know when, but we are. I love that movie because,

oh god, I forget her name right now, that plays

Amy Adams. It's not Barbara Hershey. Amy Adams

is the name of the actress, I think. Oh, it is?

I'll have to look it up, but anyway. Yeah, Amy

Archer, Amy Archer, yeah. And the point being

is that... She talks, you know, always talks

like Amy Archer from Hudsucker Proxy, that when

she drops the good daughter, she starts talking,

you know, inside of her mouth and she became

a maul because she was tired of being goody two

shoes and she didn't mind having her dog killed

to throw people off the case. And that's all

okay, but it doesn't feel like a solid thin man

ending to me. It just feels like, you know, Nick

is like, oh, Long Island is relaxing. I've been

to Long Island. I hear what you're saying. I

mean, it would be great for a set up for a murder.

I just feel that the first act is solid. The

second act is solid. The third act of tripping.

And then, of course, you have that thing where

they go back to their own apartment and you think

that she kidnapped Nicky Jr. But it just turns

out because all these, you know, former thugs

brought these kids over to celebrate Nicky's

Jr.'s birthday and then they're all leaving,

one of them grabbed the wrong kid. So Nicky Jr.

was okay all along. It diffuses tension again,

but it just feels like they want to wrap everything

up under a bow. It's still a good movie. It's

watchable. It's just not one of the more solid

ones. Yeah, yeah, I would have to agree with

that I do like the scene at the beginning of

the movie where Where they're dry where the chauffeur

is driving them down and Nick sees the body and

then when they get to the spot where the body

was He's like I could have sworn I saw a body

here. Oh, well, yeah, I just I love that whole

scene I thought that was amazing And again great

performances by the Colonel and Dum Dum and Smitty

and You know the even the the drunk who's trying

to tip off Nick and that jealous Dancer that

Nora's trying to get information from I mean,

it's a great cast and great line reads It's just

unfortunately. I'm not gonna say You can't top

the first movie and we are gonna break down like

what my favorite sequels are when we're done

With the song, but I would say right now out

of the three we've talked about right now Between

after and another I would go with after still

After you know Yeah Yeah, I would agree with

that. I mean, it's Another is good. It shows

another a different side of Nick and I mean it

shows, you know same Nick and Nora But it shows

them because it's a slightly different environment

than what we had in the first two films, it's

a little bit more interesting for me to see how

they're going to react and what they're going

to do in this one. The overall plot though, like

I said, the daughter being the culprit all along,

I should have seen it coming, I didn't, but overall

another, it's good. It's not a bad movie by any

stretch of the imagination. I think we are going

to go find the shadow of the thin man after the

trailer. We'll be back in a moment. Nick Charles

and Mrs. Charles. This is Mrs. Charles, isn't

it? Well, that's the way we check in at motels.

No one will get a word out of me, Nick. It's

okay, honey. Okay, let's go. Uh -uh. Mama goes

home. Oh, Nicky, you know you click better when

I'm around. Uh -huh. Not in a men's shower. I'll

tell you what. You go home, cold -cream that

lovely face, slip into an exciting negligee.

Yes. And I'll see you at breakfast. All right,

we are back and it is time for Shadow of the

Thin Man. It's the fourth of the six Thin Man

films. It was released in 1941 and was directed

by W .S. Van Dyke. As always, starring Murloy

and William Powell is Nick and Nora Charles.

It also features Barry Nelson as Paul Clark,

Donna Reed as Molly. Wow. Yeah. If that's the

same... Is that the same Donna Reed that I'm,

yep, Donna Reed Show. Wow. I think. Let's see

who else is in here. Sam Levine as Lieutenant

Abrams. Alan Baxter as Whitey Barrow. Henry O

'Neal as Major Jason Scully. Anyone you want

to mention? Well, I believe Dean Stockwell is

in this as a young Nicky Junior. No, he's not.

Oh, he's... He's not in this one Dean Dean doesn't

show up until song. Oh song. Okay. I'm sorry.

Yeah Yeah, Dean doesn't show up till song in

this one Nick and Nora looking for a relaxing

day at a racetrack. I don't know anyone that

would go to a racetrack for a relaxing day in

Well, I have to say it racetracks for me as a

kid We lived in Brooklyn and Staten Island. We

knew a lot of people who owned a few horses So

we enjoyed it It was relaxing when you got to

go behind and you know get to pet the horses

and whatnot and feed them Um, you know what if

you don't want to gamble you can just watch them

run. It's okay Yeah, yeah, I guess I just when

I think of a relaxing day I think of like the

beach or you know something that doesn't have

a lot of noise in it you know that that's what

I think of just the Kentucky Derby is probably

the noisiest if you go like when you don't have

the Triple Crown you're not gonna get a bad crowd

and it's not as noisy I mean maybe towards anyone

who really is an obsessive gambler nowadays at

the racetrack they stay inside where they have

all the otb yeah that's true yeah so they on

the outside we're watching the horses run yeah

it's fine yep so in this one we get uh so they're

at the track one of the jockeys gets shot and

of course lieutenant abrams requests the next

help And the trail leads to a gambling syndicate

that operates out of a wrestling arena Wow, that

is a cliche. Oh my god That's that's a huge coincidence.

You know, I When I looked at the back of the

DVD box and they bring up like the famous wrestling

scene. I Was so unimpressed what they did. I

thought there was gonna be some sort of payoff

with it. It just deals with Nor is interested

of course wrestling was different back then I

assume that it is today of course, but I love

the fact how There was a great nor a moment where

she goes to the end of the ring and she decides

to say good night to the two wrestlers and she

you know She's just trying to be polite to them

and she just walks away like she just you know

Nor is in Nora's world, which is fine It's just

it's a cute scene, but there's really no payoff

with the wrestling Because they make it out to

be like it's the most important scene in the

movie, but there's really nothing to it Yeah,

that's that's true I think it's more so of a

backdrop Than anything else. I mean it they had

to set the movie against something and The first

part of it is all about the the jockey being

murdered. So it's dealing with some sort All,

every bit of this movie is dealing with some

sort of sport, whether it's sports gambling,

whether it's wrestling, whether it's horse racing.

So, I mean, I don't mind it at all, really. Well,

you know, it was going to happen sooner or later

because Nick, of course, as we said, is a detective.

And of course, it's going to deal with the mafia

and dealing with a crooked, you know, gambling

ring. Eventually, this was going to happen in

some sort of thin man movie. To do it as a comedy,

though, for me, the only comedy in the 40s, or

the 30s, I should say, that I really enjoyed

when it came to horse racing, was a day at the

races with the Marx Brothers. I'm not saying

that, you know, because it's a thin man, it's

a dramedy, and it's not a bad one. It's an interesting

plot. I do appreciate the fact of how they're

trying to get to the races, and because a jockey

was shot to get an escort, and I left, how Nora

just goes... Wow, they're really strict around

here because the jockey was was killed and you

know they don't know the reason why of course

we find that it's a typical because he wouldn't

throw a race and of course we get Nick we need

your help, but of course he refuses and You know

we get whitey borough The reporter and and a

rival Is blackmailing You know a girlfriend it's

all typical that I've seen in the previous out

of all the thin man movies I just have to say

This one did not hold my interest as much and

I'm just gonna make this clear right here and

right now It's not the worst in the bunch. I

don't think there's a worse thin man movie this

one just Feels like they didn't know what to

do like they wanted to bring the characters back

in a story. They just weren't too sure What we

could do what we should do and we'll just bring

in racketeering and crooked gambling Right. Yeah,

I mean there's there's so many different things

That are going on here And yet know that when

we rank these it's not gonna be from best to

worst It's gonna be from you know what we what

we liked like which ones we liked the best You

know and shadow of the thin man It's getting

to be this movie for me is kind of like middle

of the road It's not good, but it's not awful.

It's just kind of there. Yeah, there are a lot

of great moments with Nick and Nora there really

are but the Having a detective story in around

You know gambling and you know racing and wrestling

and just it Doesn't really hold and when I say

it doesn't hold up I mean the plot doesn't hold

up in my mind not necessarily the move like I'm

not comparing this to today's movie standards

because today's movie standards Do this kind

of plot all the time and they make millions of

dollars because people just don't know how to

watch a good movie Sometimes you know the biggest

problem I had to where they transition wipes

in this movie because there is a moment where

Nora is using a binoculars to see if Nick is

spending time with Nicky jr. I And Nick doesn't,

it's not that he doesn't know how to be a good

father. He just, I don't know if he realizes

what he really has to do to be a father because

he wants to spend time with Nicky Jr. but he

doesn't really know how to bond. So he's trying

to read a story and he realizes it's not working

so he decides to read a race form and... Well

first we think that he's gonna tell Nicky jr.

Case that he was on that's the way that I saw

it I thought that the way that he was telling

the story to Nicky jr. And the way the transition

wipe goes and it's a flashback He's telling like

one of my cases that I was with with Nora, but

no it's it just goes back to Nora on the balcony

looking at binoculars and We see Nick and Nicky

jr. Like there's no flashback. It's just Nick

saying to Nicky Jr. once upon a time there were

six horses. There were green ones and red ones

and orange ones and you know he's talking about

the you know the numbers on the horses you know

and the you know the the closet they wear to

determine which horse is what in a race and even

Nicky Jr. picks up on that and Nick of course

has his classic ha ha laugh but there's also

on the back of the DVD box this Much talked about

scene where Nick is on the carousel with his

son And this is where I feel a Scene really has

nothing to do with anything. This is filler.

I understand that They want to have Nick bond

with Nicky jr. Which is great. I understand how

You have like he spoiled brat rich, you know

stereotypical kids that are making fun of him

And I love how Asta and Nick are on the carousel.

What bothers me is that once he gets off, he's

getting dizzy. Here's my argument, though. This

is a guy who drinks every now and then. and smokes.

You would figure he'd be used to these buzzes.

I don't understand what the comic setup of him

going on the carousel and getting scared and

going on the horse or whatever and you have this

spoiled brat kid who keeps sticking out his tongue

and calling Nick a chicken. There's no payoff

to it. And what's worse is that Astor's just

again on the ride and you have that stop motion

where he's hiding his leg over his face. I feel

that And this goes with sitcoms as well as if

once you bring a kid into a franchise usually

the kid is gonna downplay the characters and

it's gonna be focused on the kid you don't know

what to do with them and With Nicky jr. They

really didn't know what to do with him in this

movie. It's it's it's they need to solve the

case. I mean In the last movie, he was a baby,

of course. They try to have him set up where

he's going to be kidnapped, and we realize that

it doesn't work. In this one, they're trying

to bond with him, but it just takes away from

the mystery. And it has nothing to do with anything.

He's never going to jump in. He's not going to

be scrappy -do. So I understand that they want

to use it for continuity, but you're never going

to see him do anything else. especially in the

next movie where he's in boarding school. So

you can tell he didn't work out. Yeah. I still

think the best scene for Asta that has ever been

in these movies, okay, two best scenes are, one

is in After the Thin Man when we see him come

home to Mrs. Asta and clearly Mrs. Asta cheated

on him. And then the other scene that I absolutely

love with Asta actually has more to do with Nick

than Asta, but it's in the first Thin Man movie

where I think he comes up against Tanner and

Nick's like, be careful, that dog will tear you

to shreds and Asta just runs and hides. I mean,

I absolutely love that scene. I thought that

was great. But, you know, now that I've watched

Shadow of the Thin Man again, I still love these

movies as an enjoyable watch, but looking at

it critically, I don't know. It just... Well,

here's the thing. On a professional opinion,

I would say that these movies, they want to bring

back the characters because we love the characters,

and we'll accept nobody... else, but William

Powell and Murillo to play these two characters.

We fall in love with them. It's not a television

series. It's a movie series. So we have to put

them in something. We just don't know what other

cases we could give them, especially since we

know the setup. Nick is retired. He's going to

be forced to do something he doesn't want to

do. He's going to want to walk around and drink.

He wants to enjoy his retirement, but his wife,

because she's left this humdrum life, wants to

go in and, you know, she wants action, she wants

excitement but and if Nick goes in and solves

the case he'll do it his way and then at the

end it's he's starting to act like a detective

and he knows that the murder was within five

minutes to 15 minutes but we have to have you

know 75 minutes of a plot and scenes before we

get to the murder and why motivation and it gets

really really hard to drag that out in you know,

two more movies. Now the last two I can't wait

to talk about. But if I could trade off leaving

with Mark's brother movies or, you know, Three

Stooges, there's only so many times you can bring

back the characters and put them in a situation

before you realize that 90 -minute Mark is getting,

you know, longer and longer and you don't know

what these characters should say or what they

should do to make it interesting anymore. Yeah,

that's so very true. And the murder in this case,

it gets convoluted because you have this sweet

but naive woman who's trying to go undercover

as a secretary and her fiance, of course, is

always, you know, the fiance that's bland. He's

trying to get his hands on a notebook so he can

bring, you know, this mob boss to justice. And

it just gets so convoluted. And everything, it's

like the carousel, that it just like it spins

around and you get dizzy and it's like, stop

it, I just want to get off. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And was this whole thing with the fiance just

to make... Like, I don't get why he was even

a suspect because... At the end of the whole

thing, Nick says, so how is your ending coming?

Oh, I haven't quite gotten there yet. And Nick

basically says, well, let me see if I can give

something to like, like, seriously, was this

whole thing of him, you know, trying to write

this thing or whatever he was doing? Was it really,

you know, all about plagiarism? Seriously? It's

just the whole angle with the fiance was just

lame in this movie, honestly. I just feel that

they want to Go back to the murder mystery of

the late 1800s, you know, like 1890s murder mysteries,

you know, 10 little Indians and everybody's,

you know, got a past and everybody's going to

pay. But it just, you know, then you have the

roaring 20s and then you have the gangsters and

just, you know, it's not working as much as it

did. two thin man movies ago and nor as much

as I love her she's not irritating but again

I fear for her because she's not experienced

and at one point she's ready to jump and take

a bullet for Nick which is noble I'll give her

that but I don't want her to go away and that's

the one thing I get scared about the more I watch

these movies because I hadn't watched them in

a long time And I was afraid that every time

she butts in or whatever, and she wants to help.

I mean, we get the fact how she really does want

to help. And I love how they're interrogating,

like Nora goes, okay, that guy, I know he was

the murderer along. No, no, you're right, Nick,

that guy was the murderer, you knew about it

and so did I. I love all that. This one, she's

ready, when the murderer's ready to kill Nick,

she jumps in front of that bullet. I did not

know what was going to happen to Nora. I mean

Nick kind of knows because he just sits in the

distance. We know that in the last movie this

one He doesn't I mean as you said in one of them

He has to slap Nora so she doesn't get hurt in

the first film the first one Yeah, but this one

is kind of like I don't remember him even trying

to jump in for our Nora when Nora's trying to

jump in front of him But then it kind of like

oh well, they're wearing bullets in the gun Yeah

I think the whole thing about this movie is that

it's a It's a role reversal for them Like sure

Nick is doing all the detective work like he

always has been but she's the one That wants

to protect him this time. So I think it's more

of a role reversal than anything else. I don't

mind it I think it's great, but I just The whole

plot setting, as I've already said, and I think

we're pretty much done with this one, but the

whole plot setting is just ridiculous. It really

is. Yeah, this was just like something out of

a 1930s serial that you would see in the movies

for like 10 minutes. I mean, it would have been

different if they had done something like have

them... I hate to say this, but we brought this

up earlier, or you did when you were talking

about noise. It would have been almost better

if they went... I'm not trying to went to Churchill

Downs here in Louisville, Kentucky Honestly,

I mean it would have been better if this was

like a jockey killed at the derby Yeah, I mean

they don't even they just let that go the same

thing with the wrestling They just they just

show it for the sake of showing it and then sit

We're gonna take a quick break go to some ads

from our partner podcast and we'll be back after

this with final ratings on Another Thin Man and

Shadow of the Thin Man will be back after this.

All right, so we are back here on my episode

108 the thin man double feature part two And

it's time to rate another thin man and shadow

of the thin man on The GCR and Universal rating

system. What are you going to be giving another

thin man, sir? You know what? I'm gonna be fair

because I Do appreciate the atmosphere. I appreciate

the characters. I appreciate the character actors

and I appreciate the fact that this one does

not go without a fight even though it does trip

over the finish line with the Who done it I'm

gonna be generous and give a three Okay And just

for those of you who don't know the link will

be in the show notes But just for those of you

don't know three stars out of five on our scale

is entitled barely passing While the overall

takeaway was positive, you do not necessarily

walk away happy. It does not extraordinarily

succeed in any specific areas. If it does, it

gets weighed down by something as equally unsuccessful,

though overall enjoyable, is easily disposable.

Um, for me, I'm going to give it three and a

half, which is liked it. Um, issues are certainly

prevalent, but so are the successes. Typically

there is one specific area of extraordinary achievement

or multitude of quality moments that make the

negative aspects relatively easy to accept. Um,

I'm giving it three and a half out of start three

and a half out of five, because it's another

thin man is Like I said, it's middle -of -the

-road. It really is. It's not horrible. It's

not amazing It's just kind of there Now on the

other hand Shadow of the thin man I I didn't

think I was gonna like I Love these movies watching

them as a kid as a young adult and even now as

an older adult I honestly never thought I would

come to this end of the universal rating system

here at the GCRN, but for me, I have to give

this two and a half out of five, which is barely

failing. The cons slightly outweigh the pros.

While the negatives aren't overbearing, they

are far too plentiful to make it worthy of a

recommend. There may not be a certain redeeming

quality. There may be certain redeeming qualities

that are worth your time. However, the end product

leaves you wanting more. What about you for Shadow

of the Thin Man? It's going to break my heart

for this one. And on a professional level, I

have to give this one a one and a half. And that's

me. Oh, wow. Yeah. And you know why? This is

out of all of them, this one. just The the air

was out of the tires there was nothing to it

They didn't know where they wanted to go with

this one And this one is the more I think about

it now that I collected my thoughts This one

is the weakest link. So what are you gonna rate

this one? I'm gonna give this one a one and a

half on a professional opinion This one really

is the weakest link of the thin man movies I

mean this This one just took a punch and didn't

get up even before the count of ten. The years

are let out of the tires. They don't know what

it wants to be. Do they want to care about the

kid? Do they want to have Nick bond with his

son? Do they want to be about crooked gamblers

with the sports? It goes everywhere and there's

no payoff. I feel, as I said, with Nick going

on the carousel, getting off and getting sick,

I just... If I never have to watch a Thin Man

sequel again, it will definitely be Shadow. Okay.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Alright, so coming

up next time on MWIRE, we will wrap up the Thin

Man coverage with the double feature part 3 where

we talk about the Thin Man goes home and song

of the Thin Man. What do you got coming up on

Hunnic Outcast? Well, Wyatt and I are going to

be discussing... We finished up Giant Robot Month

this month, and now we're going to be talking

about Gamera, as well as Ultraman, and I've come

across, since I've seen Guardians of the Galaxy,

Howard the Duck comics. And believe me, they're

a lot better than the 80s movie. So we're going

to be doing that and having us because we did

have a Transformers versus Bayformers discussion.

I feel a Howard the Duck versus the Howard the

Duck of the 70s discussion coming up very soon.

And of course, in September we got Mothra Month.

So we got a lot going on. Yep. Awesome. All right.

That's going to do it for this episode of NYR.

Keep those film reels rolling and we will catch

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