Man of Steel Review

This is M -Wire, movie we can review. M -Wire

is brought to you by audible .com. Sign up today

to get a free audiobook download at www .audibletrial

.com slash geekcastradio. Start today with a

free 30 day trial with over 100 ,000 titles to

choose from for your iPhone, Android, Kindle

or MP3 player. Don't forget to follow Audible

on Twitter at Audible underscore com. And now

the latest and greatest in movies with MWIRE.

There'll be a God to them. What if a child dreamed

of becoming something other than what society

had intended? What if a child aspired to something

greater? My son was in the bus. He saw what Clark

did You're the answer son, you're the answer

to are we alone in the universe Can I just keep

pretending I'm your son? You are my son I have

to believe that you were sent here for a reason

and even if it takes the rest of your life You

owe it to yourself to find out what that reason

is How do you find someone who has spent a lifetime

covering his tracks? For some, he was a guardian

angel. For others, a ghost who never quite fit

in. You will give the people of Earth an ideal

to strive towards. They will race behind you.

They will stumble. They will fall. In time, you

will help them accomplish wonders. You believe

your son is safe? If the world found out who

I really was, it'd reject me. He was convinced

that the world wasn't ready. What do you think?

What's the S stand for? It's not an S. In my

world, it means hope. Well, here it's an S. How

about... We're going to start off this episode

of MWIRE with a quote from a friend of mine on

Facebook, Michael Bailey. He is the host of Views

from the Longbox. Check that show out. And he

is probably one of the biggest Superman fans

I know. And he says, all right, once again, we've

reached a point in Superman fandom where an event

has occurred that is, to put it mildly, divisive.

This is nothing new. John Byrne's Superman did

it in 1986, Smallville did it in 2001, the New

52 did it in 2011. I am fairly sure there were

pissed -off Superman fans in 1978 when the first

movie came out and it changes Julia Schwartz's

probably -robbed people the wrong way. It has

happened before and it will happen again. Wow,

why am I flashing to Armageddon when he says

that? To those that are upset about what happened

to... Or to those that are upset by the fandom's

reaction to what happened, I say this. Do not

let this ruin your love of Superman. Or just

waive you from talking with like -minded fans.

Your Superman is still out there. Never let anyone

take that away from you. There are enough versions

of The Man of Steel to find out which one is

for you. Find that version, hold onto it, it

will get you through any storm. Hello and welcome

to Movie Week in Review. I am TFJoneMike. Joining

me is movie role Dan. Hello. Hello. Yes, you

and I are gonna finish this epic red blue and

yellow journey here and joining us. I Don't even

remember the last time he was on M wires optimus

solo What the hell are you doing here as an on

M? Where a couple of minutes ago actually? Don't

reference stuff that's coming later. Yeah, nobody

knows what I'm referring to Don't you're referring

to that's something that will come in the future

You like it was traveled back in time to us here.

Just don't spin the earth backwards. That's all

we have Yes, I mean, it's been a while since

I've been on any records I'm here. Thankfully.

Yes, thankfully Alright, so we are here and obviously

we're gonna talk about man of steel before we

continue There will be spoilers if you have not

seen this film stop the podcast Go watch the

movie and come back and listen to this. So you

have been warned. We are going to spoil the hell

out of this thing. We're going to dissect it.

We're going to chew it up and spit it out. So

you can't get angry with us. God, now I have

to put a Slipknot song in this episode. You don't

have to do anything you don't want to do. OK,

so Dan and I have been doing the DC Spotlight

Volume 2 covering all the Superman films, including

Supergirl. Optimus Solo, this is your first time

here. Are you or have you ever been a Superman

fan? I I have not known you to be really big

into superheroes in general, but I was I was

I was as a kid One of my favorite superhero as

a kid with spider -man Mm -hmm. I used to have

all kinds of spider -man coloring books. I used

to color the crap out of them I used to like

everything about spider -man And I and I was

somewhat of a fan of Batman as well I just am

not someone who reads comic books up to this

point in my life. It's just something I never

got into and I do not necessarily care for superhero

Animated television shows. It's just something

that I've never gotten into as far as superhero

movies I have basically seen a crap ton of them

almost all of them with the exception of two

characters that I just cannot get into one of

which is the Incredible Hulk and You're not missing

anything there. And the other one has always

been Superman. Those are two superheroes that

I have never been able to get excited about.

I don't know if it's because of the types of

movies that have been put out on those two characters.

I don't know what it is about those two characters,

but those are two superheroes that I just have

never enjoyed. That doesn't mean I'm completely

ignorant to who they are and what, you know,

everything that goes... You know around them

and about them and their whole world But yeah,

I was I was more so a fan of spider -man and

Batman growing up But I am NOT a a superhero

fanatic like I'm like most of you guys are Mainly

just because I don't watch the animated cartoons

because for some reason there's something that

puts in like rubs me the wrong way about him

I don't know what it is Teach their own and even

though Dana has been doing this with me the entire

time just for a refresher for the audience like

What about you and superheroes? What is it? Did

you have favorites growing up? Do you have favorites

now? Yes, I mean I grew up more of a Marvel fan.

I think what got me into superheroes was in the

90s the X -Men cartoon I think that's kind of

what brought me in. I was always a fan of like

the X -Men Punisher I was never really in obviously

Batman Not so much in the Superman. It's the

same thing. I just he he was fine. I remember

watching the old Flesher cartoons as a kid and

liking those but for the most part I never really

got into the character all that much. I never

really watched the the Read Superman films ones.

I watched but nothing there were never ones that

really held a high standard for me or ones that

I kind of went back to Just to me Superman just

he's an okay character for the most part I just

never really felt he was one that I would go

out and like invest and usually if I was gonna

watch a Superman Cartoon is because Batman was

in it or something like that. But overall Superman

to me was just He was a character of a bygone

era that never really was able to be successfully

updated all that much. To be fair, I just also

never really read DC. So if I went to comics,

it's always been Marvel. And for me, I didn't

get into like full tilt into comics till about

a year ago. But watching these animated series,

watching the movies, watching the television

shows, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I would

say I'm a casual Superman fan. I do prefer more

so the animated series and the television shows.

I like the Christopher Reeve movies. As I mentioned

in the Superman 4 episode of MWIRE, that was

basically my Superman. It was the one where I

was at the age where I was, oh, this is kind

of cool, even though everybody knows Superman

4 kind of sucked. but that was that was for me

and and that's really where i'm coming from with

this is more so on the tv and animated side because

i don't care if anybody says i will defend it

until my dying breath lois and clark new adventures

of superman was an awesome nineties version of

superman smallville in two thousand one was another

new different something else we hadn't seen yet

and same thing here with man of steel it's something

that It's done something that we haven't seen

before it doesn't necessarily add anything new

But it's a different way of storytelling his

origin and every incarnation that I've seen to

this point is a different interpretation Minus

the copycat film in 2006 which shall never be

named again on this podcast That copycat film

from 2006 Yeah Shitty returns. That's that's

his new name He didn't return for long and no

So that's that's where we're all coming from

when it comes to man of steel I basically want

when I went to see in the theater. I basically

went in with okay. This is new This is this isn't

a reboot. Well, it technically is a rib. It's

not a it's not a remake It isn't copying the

old films. It isn't trying to pay homage to anything.

It's a new film for the it's a Film for the 21st

century. It's a 21st century Superman film and

that's really the only expectation I went into

it with it. What about you Kev? What kind of

expectations or lack thereof did you go into?

I mean, I think it's impossible to enter this

film without the following expectation or the

following question on your mind and that is At

least for me. There was no way to you had to

go into this film saying can they do? Can can

Man of Steel? do for Superman what Dark Knight

did for Batman? That was literally the only question

on my mind. Expectation -wise, I didn't necessarily

have expectations one way or the other. I was

just wondering, are they going to be able to

successfully do what Dark Knight did for that

character? Is it going to have that feel? Is

it going to have that success? Am I going to

leave in any way, shape, or with the same state

of mind that I left when I left Dark Knight thinking,

Wow, this is how Batman should be done. So that's

kind of how I entered the movie was, will I come

out of this? Now, first of all, it had, in my

experience, and like I said, I'm not a Superman

fanatic, so I'm somewhat maybe at times ignorant

to Superman's history as far as it goes with

movies and television shows, but as far as what

I've been exposed to, Superman didn't have like...

The competition wasn't too stiff as far as being

the best Superman film I went in fully expecting

this to be the best Superman film I have ever

seen But that still doesn't that's a completely

different statement than Will it do for Superman

what Dark Knight did for Batman? I think it was

gonna Everybody should have had the expectations.

This is gonna be the best Superman film because

if it wasn't it was gonna be an epic failure

But yeah, I just I just wanted to know if it

was gonna have that dark night effect Well, I

think it kind of does and we'll get into it a

little bit after the just the facts really quick

Dan What kind of expectations did you did you

go into the theater with with this one? Well

back in the like the Spring summer preview episode.

I said, it's probably my most anticipated film

of this first half of the year Not so much because

I'm a Superman fan, but I just I'd like the pieces

that were involved. I like a lot of the actors.

I I'm not the hugest next to Zack Snyder's fan.

I like three hundred. I like the Dawn of the

Dead. Watchmen was OK. Sucker Punch was horrible.

But with Nolan as a producer, I had some I thought

that could lend itself well. And I like the trailers.

Every trailer I saw, I liked it more and more.

The more I saw, the more I like. So I went in

with like this. I was hoping, like Kevin mentioned,

that this could be the Dark Knight of Superman.

That this would, or at least, you know, show

that DC can make a solid film for a superhero

character that's not Batman and allow DC to finally

get closer to that Justice League movie or get

closer to kind of expanding their universe. So

that was my expectation. Like, how is DC going

to show that, okay, they can live without the

Dark Knight? Because that's the big F. Now that

Dark Knight's gone, what are they gonna do next?

Can they fill that void? So that was my expectation.

Alright, we're gonna get to JT with just the

facts. He's gonna break down the plot of the

movie for us, tell us about some budget stuff

and everything else and we'll be back after this.

Man of Steel opens on the planet Krypton, but

it's a Krypton that we've never seen before.

No longer covered in ice and crystal, this planet

is teeming with alien flora and fauna coexisting

with its high technology. Unfortunately the planet's

resources have been depleted to the point where

the planetary core has become unstable. It is

during this time Jor -El of the House of El and

his wife Lara bring their son Kal -El into the

world. Kal -El being the first naturally born

Kryptonian in centuries. Joril pleads with the

planetary council to try and evacuate as many

Kryptonians as they can to their defunct space

colonies before they are interrupted by General

Zod and his followers. Zod sees the council's

archaic ways as the cause of the planet's imminent

demise and has staged a military coup. He plans

to use the genetic codex, containing the traces

of Kryptonian DNA, to restart the Kryptonian

people on another world. Joril escapes from Zod

and steals the codex, then races back to his

home, where he and Lara prepare to send little

Kal -El to Earth. Jorrel implants the Codex into

his son to hide it from Zod, who soon arrives

to reclaim it. Jorrel suits up in some armor

and battles Zod and his men, giving Lara enough

time to launch the small escape craft containing

the last son of Krypton. Zod then straight up

shanks Jorrel and is about to destroy Kal -El's

craft, when the Council's army arrives and reclaims

the planet. Not that it matters, as about five

minutes after Zod and his people are exiled to

the Phantom Zone, again, the planet Krypton explodes

while baby Kal -El travels to Earth. His ship

lands near Smallville, Kansas, where Kal -El

is found by farmer Jonathan Kent and his wife

Martha. They adopt the young boy and name him

Clark. Clark has a hard time being accepted and

keeping his powers a secret as he grows up, as

we see through several flashbacks throughout

the film. Despite his best efforts, Clark's developing

powers often lead him into compromising situations,

like where he saves his schoolmates from drowning

when their bus is forced off the road into a

river. Jonathan instructs him to keep his powers

a secret. as he believes that humanity is not

ready to accept someone like Clark. This becomes

a sore point between the two as years later during

a car ride they are arguing about Clark leaving

Smellville when they are caught on the edge of

a massive tornado which claims Jonathan Kent's

life. Overcome by guilt for not saving his dad,

Clark leaves Smellville and wonders the world

working various jobs under fake names to cover

his tracks. While working on a crab fishing boat

off the coast of Alaska, Clark is once again

forced to reveal his gifts when an oil rig explodes

and workers are trapped inside. Clark rescues

the workers and prevents the collapsing rig from

falling on the rescue chopper but goes down with

the rig. Swimming to shore, Clark takes work

as a busboy at a local bar and grill for a few

months when he learns of a massive ship buried

in the arctic ice. Traveling north, Clark gets

a job at an Arctic cargo company that is working

the site alongside the US Army. There he meets

Colonel Hardy, who is supervising the excavation

alongside lead scientist Dr. Emil Hamilton. The

camp soon gains a female presence in the form

of Daily Planet reporter Lois Lane, who has come

to document the dig. Lois is quickly brought

up to speed on the buried ship, which is theorized

to be a long -lost Russian sub, until one of

the researchers reveals the ice around it is

over 20 ,000 years old. That night while taking

shots of the camp, Lois sees Clark up near the

dig site and follows him, finding a fresh tunnel

carved into the ice courtesy of Clark's Heath

vision that leads to the ship. Clark activates

the ship with a command key found in the craft

that brought him to Earth, which also activates

a virtual Jor -El contained in the key. Clark

is given a crash course in Kryptonian history

by Jor -El, which is interrupted when Lois is

attacked by a security drone. Clark saves Lois

and attends to her injury before activating the

engines and moving the ship to a remote location.

After she is found by the army search team, Lois

returns to Metropolis and writes up her encounter

with Clark for the planet. The story is rejected

by editor Perry White due to lack of evidence.

Lois then leaks her story through a blogger's

website and starts to track Clark down through

his fake IDs and stories of guardian angel saves.

Meanwhile, having landed the ship far away from

prying eyes, Clark learns from Jarell that he

is meant to be a beacon for humanity, a goal

for them to strive for. He gifts Clark with a

Kryptonian bodysuit adorned with the crest of

the House of El, which looks like a big S. Clark

experiments with his powers, specifically flight,

going from leaping buildings in a single bound

to straight up flying in short order. He arrives

home after Lois has already made her way to Smallville

and questions Martha, who is still living in

the old homestead. Clark meets with Lois at his

father's grave where she begs to tell his story.

Clark refuses stating the world is not yet ready

to learn of his existence. Unfortunately, the

decision is made for him when the army discovers

a large alien craft orbiting the moon. The craft

sends out a signal, really a voice, in all languages

announcing that humanity is not alone. The voice

identifies itself as General Zod, and Zod says

that they have traveled to Earth after picking

up the locator beacon from the ship Clark found

and demand that Kal -El turn himself over. The

planet is thrown into a panic, and Lois is arrested

after it's revealed that she had prior knowledge

of the alien hiding among the populace. Clark

dons his suit and surrenders himself to the army's

custody, where he warns Colonel Hardy and General

Swanwick not to trust Zod. He also tries to explain

the crest on his suit to Lois. Zod's minions

soon arrive, led by his lieutenant Fiora, who

also demands that Lois come along. The pair are

taken up to Zod's ship, where they find that

Kryptonians live in an atmosphere radically different

from Earth, and Lois is fitted with a breather

mask. After being greeted by Zod, who doesn't

demand that he kneels, Clark collapses, revealing

he is also vulnerable to Krypton's atmosphere.

He awakens in a medical bay, tied down to a table

where a doctor takes a blood sample, and discovers

that the codex is hidden in his blood. Clark

is also mentally probed by Zod, who reveals how

he and his people were freed from the zone by

Krypton's demise, and how they survived for the

last 30 years. Zod also reveals he plans to terraform

the planet Earth into a new Krypton, wiping out

humanity in the process. Lois in the meantime

meets the virtual Drell who Clark smuggled on

board in his command key. Jor -El has devised

a plan to send Zod and company back to the zone

using Clark's spacecraft. Lois is nearly killed

by Faora before she escapes, and Clark soon follows,

saving Lois from crashing outside of Smallville.

Zod and crew soon arrive on the Kent farm to

reclaim the spacecraft, at the same time demonstrating

that their own superpowers are coming on strong.

However, Clark soon arrives and tries to drive

them off, resulting in a titanic clash between

him, Faora, and another of Zod's henchmen. The

fight nearly levels Smellville, especially once

Colonel Hardy and the army gets involved. Clark

manages to damage Feyora's breather and she is

forced to retreat, while Hardy acknowledges that

Clark, or rather, Kal -El, is not an enemy after

all. Zod then activates the terraformer and sets

his command ship over Metropolis to begin the

transformation of Earth. Zod then goes to retrieve

the scout ship, which also contains a Kryptonian

birthing matrix which, along with the codex that

he seeks, will help Zod resurrect his people.

Lois and Clark, who has now been dubbed Superman

by the army, regrouped with Colonel Harry and

General Swanwick, and revealed Jarrell's plan

which is to modify Clark's ship and drop it like

a missile on the command ship, with its star

drive activated. Given that the star drive is

a modified phantom zone projector, the impact

would rupture the drive and create a portal that

would suck the ship and Zod's forces back to

the zone. Clark goes to the other side of the

world to destroy the Terraformer there, while

Hardy, Lois and Dr. Hamilton head for the command

ship over Metropolis. Clark is hard pressed to

destroy the Terraformer as its defenses and its

newly generated Kryptonian atmosphere nearly

defeat him, while Hardy and his forces try to

get past the ship's defenses and Zod's followers

who are running interference. Clark finally manages

to find the strength he needs and destroys the

terraformer and heads for Metropolis to aid his

friends. Lois and Hamilton are getting the ship

ready to drop when Faora attacks, and Lois is

thrown from the plane. Zod also arrives in the

scout ship as Clark arrives to confront him.

Just as Faora is about to win, Hamilton and Hardy

sacrifice themselves to win the day and succeed

in destroying the command ship. As the command

ship is destroyed, Zod and Clark battle on board

the scout ship. and Clark destroys the birthing

matrix, ruining any chance of the Kryptonians

coming back. Clark then escapes the exploding

scout ship and saves Lois. They kiss once they

hit the ground, but they are interrupted by Zod,

who has come back for revenge. Showing he has

acclimated to his powers faster than anyone thought,

Zod savagely attacks Clark and the two engage

in an epic super -powered slugfest throughout

Metropolis. They battle across the city, causing

even more property damage, until they crash into

a train station and Clark gets Zod in a headlock.

Zod, however, is not yet finished, and tries

to char broil some innocent bystanders with his

heat vision while Clark cries for him to stop.

Zod defiantly roars that he will never stop,

and Clark has no choice but to snap Zod's neck,

killing him, and leaving Clark truly the last

son of Krypton. Clark soon returns to Smellville

to make sure his mom is alright, finding Martha

salvaging some photos from the wrecked farmhouse.

She asks him what he's gonna do now, and Clark

tells her he's gonna get a job. One where he

can keep his ear to the ground and where no one

will think twice about him poking his nose into

dangerous situations. And while he is telling

his mother this, we follow Clark as he rides

his bike to the offices of a very familiar newspaper

where Perry White introduces Lois Lane to the

newest reporter for The Daily Planet, Clark Kent.

Realizing who he truly is, Lois welcomes Clark

Kent to the planet, ending the film. Man of Steel

opened in both regular and 3D theaters on June

14th, 2013. As of June 19th, as I record this,

the film has made just over $200 million at the

box office, just shy of its $225 million budget.

Zack Snyder, known for visually intensive films

like 300 and Watchmen, directed the newest installment

of the Man of Steel's cinematic adventures. He

was joined in the production by Christopher Nolan,

director of the Dark Knight trilogy, who also

acted as producer, and he even helped out with

the script which was primarily written by David

S. Goyer, who comic book movie fans will know

from his work on the Marvel series of Blade films.

The titular Man of Steel was played this time

around by Henry Cavill, who was also on the shortlist

for the role back in 2006 for Superman Returns.

Lois Lane was portrayed by Amy Adams, Diane Lane

and Kevin Costner played Ma and Pa Kent, and

Russell Crowe and Israeli actress Eilat Zur played

the roles of Jor -El and Lara, Superman's birth

parents. The film's villain General Zod was played

by actor Michael Shannon, and the supporting

cast also includes Morpheus himself, Laurence

Fishburne as Dale planet editor Perry White,

Michael Kelly as sports editor Steve Lombard,

Chris Maloney as Colonel Hardy, and Richard Schiff

as Dr. Emil Hamilton. So far the critics and

fans are pretty split on what they think of The

Man of Steel. So much so that the film currently

holds a 56 % rotten rating on RottenTomatoes

.com. Richard Roper of the Chicago Sun -Times

commented that the film doesn't break any new

ground for the character of Superman, and considers

the film to be underwhelming at best. Other critics,

such as Lisa Kennedy of the Denver Post, thought

that the storytelling and direction made the

film unbalanced, while the Washington Post critic

Anne Hornaday said the score, crafted by noted

composer Hans Zimmer, made the film, and I quote,

an exceptionally unpleasant viewing experience.

Damn, lady, tell us how you really feel. But

it's not all bad. In fact, critic for IGM Jim

Vivota scored the film 9 out of 10, saying the

film is amazing and he also applauded the performances

of Kevin Costner and Russell Crowe. Hollywood

Reporter critic Tom McCarthy argued that another

reboot was unnecessary, but that Snyder's attention

to detail was enough for audiences to overlook

that fact. And Richard Corliss of Time Magazine

said it best in his comment, and again I quote,

Well said. Now as I said before, Henry Cavill

was up for the part of Superman before, but did

you know that he was also up for some other famous

character roles? Cavill was also up for the role

of Bruce Wayne slash Batman in Nolan's Bat trilogy,

and he also lost out in becoming 007 James Bond

in the Casino Royale back in 2006 as well. This

wasn't the only so close yet so far casting choices

made in the film. Aragorn himself, Viggo Mortensen

was up for the role of General Zod, Ben Affleck

was offered the director's chair, and legendary

badasses Michael Bean and Kurt Russell were up

for the role of Jonathan Kent. The film also

has a couple of connections to TV's Smallville.

Amy Adams appeared in the first season episode,

Craving, playing the character Jodie Melville,

and Alessandro Giuliani, who appeared in the

Arctic sequences as Sergeant Sadowski, played

Dr. Emil Hamilton from Season 8 to the end of

the series. While there are many Superman fans

who are not happy with this film, I am glad to

say I am not one of them. While Man of Steel

is not without its flaws, it's still a damn good

movie. It does something new that filmmakers

haven't done before with a Superman film, and

that's put the man before the super. One of my

favorite parts of the film was the conflict that

Clark goes through from hiding his abilities

while growing up to wrestling with the question

of where his destiny lies as an adult. Henry

Cavill's performance as Superman was great, as

was Michael Schafer's What's the S stand for?

It's not an S. On my world it means hope. Well

here it's an ass How about Thank you so much

JT for those just the facts and yeah the I Went

into this kind of thinking what Kevin mentioned

earlier was will this Live up to the dark night,

and I think this is People are not even laugh

or cringe at this reference. This is almost like

the Dark Knight returns with Superman for me

honestly because Christopher Nolan has his fingers

all over this thing I know he's the executive

producer and everything else, but and I know

Zack Snyder had the main vision for it as the

director But you can so tell with some of this

storytelling that it's mainly Nolan and David

S Goyer. That's that's really directing this

this kind of storytelling direction I don't mind

that I think it was cool I think it was great

I think it was as I said before this is a modern

it's a modernization of Superman and I liked

it I enjoyed the film honestly I did I thought

it was great you know instead of just having

oh hey our son is born We have to now send him

off world because the planet is going to explode.

You actually almost see the entire birth of Kal

-El. What I... I don't know. I'm not sure if

I, and we can kind of get into this here in a

minute, but I will say that that whole, the whole

Krypton scene for me was really cool. I got too

many vibes of The Matrix though, especially when

they... showed the baby pods in the water that

was kind of like oh no it's going matrix what

I didn't like about the Krypton stuff is that

basically their entire race is genetics it's

stated like three or four times in the film that

Kal -El was the first actual live birth centuries

on that planet. I don't know if I really care

for that. I know I'm nitpicking here, but I don't

know. What did you think of the Krypton scene,

Kev? I really enjoyed it because I think it's

something that's far too often just glossed over.

Mostly because... It's not been possible for

them from a technological standpoint to pull

it off and to really like delve into it So it

was always much easier for other writers filmmakers

television, whatever whatever version of Superman

you're gonna do live -action for them to just

kind of Skip over that fact and and and seems

like they always you know kind of barely touched

on it as far as my exposure and now I Obviously

haven't seen all of the Superman movies from

beginning to end because I just don't care for

Superman, but I liked seeing that I liked seeing

What it entailed I liked their depiction of Krypton

I liked the a lot of the Visual aspects that

we got I thought the the little I don't know

what you're gonna call those things the communication

you know you know how you know when you're a

kid and you had those uh those little squares

that you could buy that you could like put your

hand on the pin cushion thing yes yeah that's

all i could think about um and i loved those

as a kid so i thought it was cool that we were

seeing these little faces pushed into the pin

cushions like that um i liked that aspect i liked

the um i guess you can call it the costume costuming

or the gear that they're wearing. I thought it

was a cool depiction and I love backstories so

I really like to get to see how his real father

and mother were depicted, the sacrifices they

were making to save him and their race in a way.

And the reason most importantly was the depiction

of General Zod and And how he kind of became

what he was and where His motivation was and

and his interaction with Superman's father. So

I really liked those those initial scenes I thought

it did a good job of a kind of table setting

for the film What about you Dan? What did you

think of the whole Krypton scene? Oh, I enjoyed

them I mean, I think it really got the movie

off -running I know the the big issue with a

lot of people with returns was the lack of action

So it seems like this one went full board with

action right away I love the look of Krypton,

just how they mix the organic life with the high

-tech imagery and all the different ships and

seeing Jor -El on this random creature that looks

like he's from Avatar. There's a cross between

that and Star Wars episode. I was going to say,

I was waiting for Obi -Wan to show up. That also

reminded me a lot of John Carter from last year

too, just the way it combined organic life and

high -tech imagery. But overall I also like the

like the technology of the Krypton's and just

their costume design and they're like a battle

gear and stuff like that Regarding you talked

about this the idea of how they're genetically

Altered for specific roles and I kind of like

where that was going to a certain extent I don't

think I think it set off an interesting aspect

to the character of Superman because you have

this idea of him being a natural birth and if

you go into the Obviously like the huge Christ

allegory with With Superman it's kind of reverse

of that, you know Jesus was a virgin birth and

this is the Superman being the opposite being

the you know actual one of the only person in

centuries so I kind of Liked where that was going.

I do feel like I kind of wonder why Jor -El is

somehow some action hero too if he's supposed

to be a scientist And he is supposed to be like

genetically made to be a scientist how he's fighting,

you know the ruler of the military like in hand

-to -hand combat, but What have you that's this

part of the movie? I do think it presents a lot

of issues though I think when this movie does

a lot is provide certain like no non -winnable

situations that have Certain outcomes that they

want but there's also other possibilities like

the way they Krypton is Destroyed like from the

time Superman leaves the planet to the time super

the Krypton is actually destroyed It seems like

a long period of time. So it's kind of curious

like why no one else got off the earth or got

off Krypton and Because no one else like Jor

-El and Lara were the only ones that were going

to Like they kept telling everyone we need to

leave and everybody's like no we need to save

the I understand that but also but Even Zod made

it evident that this he's evident that he wanted

to leave he wanted to take over the planet and

he wanted to do so with Jor -el and Jor -el's

response was no I don't want to do it with you

because you're going to pick and choose who you

want to conquer you're gonna pick it off, you

know, who's You know is in your eyes acceptable

Instead I'm not gonna do that. That's wrong.

I'm gonna send my son away and Instead of letting

you choose you survive so it seemed kind of problem

problematic. I understand that Superman You can't

have other people leave you can't have his parents

survive What it just seems like when you have

such a delay there and I think that's an other

issue with the movie It's just like the time

It's never really spelled out all that well because

it could have been a few hours. It could have

been a few months It just seemed kind of odd

But anyways, I had overall I kind of it's for

the most part it was it worked and I liked it

where it set off the character and how it Led

into where we saw Superman that kind of in a

kind of the flashback story devices that they

used I'm kind of along those same lines I actually

I mean you're talking about the the fighting

between Jor -el and and Zod and obviously Zod

is You know designed genetically to be this You'd

be a warrior be a fighter for the most part so

yeah I understand I kind of get that that it

seems like it shouldn't be happening because

we got a scientist versus versus a military kind

of personal personality, but at the same time

I guess I'm willing to write that off and say

Bud Jarrell is Superman's father. It's on a breaking

point for me. There's a lot of those little things

where it's like, hmm, those things that make

you go, hmm. That was kind of one of them. In

the moment, it didn't really come to me. It wasn't

something I was thinking about. In retrospect,

it makes me wonder. And I like how they set it

up as far as Jor -El and Zod. Basically, I like

it when things do this, when universes do this,

or in a backstory where the good guy, so to speak,

and the bad guy aren't so, so completely different

from each other. They are in in key points, which

is why they can't you know coexist or whatnot,

but they both basically Understand what is happening

to their planet? You know Superman's father has

been warning them, but it's also the reason for

the coup is because, you know, the attempted

coup was because Zad was so, you know, basically

blaming the politicians for allowing this to

happen, for not doing something, you know, to

prevent it, you know, they're basically taking

too long and kind of part of the problem. So,

I mean, they both kind of see the problem and

they both want to solve the problem and they're

both doing it in all intents and purposes for

the good of their people. and their society,

it's just these key aspects of how they're going

to do it, like you said, with wanting to pick

and choose which gene pool gets to survive and

which doesn't, where they kind of have that.

So I like because it makes the bad guy not just

bad. You know what I mean? I know he's not human,

but it adds that human aspect to him. He's someone

you can relate to. He's someone you can understand

whether you agree with him or not. You can see

where he's coming from, and I like it when they

do that with the villain. As far as Jor -El's

actions and him kind of being the action hero

type, first of all, it's the freaking gladiator

playing. Second of all... There have been other

times in other versions of Superman, specifically

Superman the Animated Series, the Last Son of

Krypton three -part episode arc that opened that

series. Jor -El was... fighting the council he

was you know they had the whole society of oh

hey go arrest Jor -El and he was fighting the

Kryptonian police so there are there have been

other times in history where Jor - like to me

the reason why the Krypton sequence is so good

in this film is because it isn't just that I'm

not disparaging the original movie I'm just saying

every Superman origin we get is you know Jor

-El goes to the council tells them they don't

believe him He and Lara send Clark off, send

Kal -El off. You know, you don't really got,

you never really got before this film, unless

you watched the animated series, you never really

got to see Jor -El really do anything other than

just stand there and wave bye -bye to his kid.

You know, and I like the fact a lot of people

are very divided on this. Instead of the entire

planet blowing up and taking everybody I I really

enjoyed the different plot line of actually Zod

killing Jor -El Because that's something we had

not seen before in media. I don't know. I don't

know if it's been done in comics. I have not

Read a lot of Superman comics, so I'm not sure

if it's been done in that but instead of Jor

-El and Lara just standing there waiting for

the planet to explode I did enjoy as sadistic

as this sounds I did enjoy the plot point of

the fact that Zod kills Jor -El. I guess that

that moment didn't really like impact me all

that much just because you kind of know the plan

is going to get destroyed. So it's almost like,

well, he's going to die anyways, which is kind

of unfair for that moment. I mean, I do like

how they bring it up later in the film with with

the hologram Jor -El. But yeah, I honestly not

knowing Superman's history. I didn't know if

that was new or not. I just assumed maybe it

happened. So it didn't really impact me. It just

really though separates the fact that these are

these two people that both kind of realize what's

going to happen to the planet and it just really

solidifies the fact that their visions are so

different and how to fix that or how to deal

with that really separates these two people that

seemingly were apparently the only two people

that really led the cause of something needs

to be done. Our planet's dying basically. It

also shows thought is just very based off emotion

because even in the moment it didn't seem like

it was something he was Necessarily proud of

like even like the look on Shannon's face of

Michael Shannon like he didn't seem like he was

kind of It was almost like in a bittersweet moment

like he seemed like he didn't want to do it You

know, he well it made it added to the human element

and really made you believe that he respected

Jor -el and then he had a reverence for him as

a person that they really must have had a history

where they then where they had learned to Basically

have a deep respect for each other regardless

of what had happened to you know change that

and manipulate that throughout time But you you

definitely got that feel that it wasn't something

he was proud of I agree with you on that And

that's the other thing me like before this We

had never in film. We had never really seen like

Superman 2, no matter which cut you like, Lester

or Donner, we don't really see Zod do anything

on Krypton in either one of the cuts. He's always

already captured and getting ready to be sent

to the Phantom Zone. So that's another thing

I liked about this movie, is that we see Zod

in action. And I'm so thankful, I don't care

what any Superman fan says, I'm so thankful that

he did not copy Terrence Stamp. One day your

ass! I'm so glad they did not incorporate that

into this film. Yeah, and then O 'Neill's bravado,

which I think is a good idea, because if you're

going to try to separate yourself, you've got

to do it all the way. Kevin might shoot me with

a phaser with this that is not set to stun, but

I swear to God the entire movie I when I watch

them like hey, there's an odd There's an odd

there's an odd and the nods all the nods in this

film are so well placed and so well hidden unless

you're a Superman fan You won't get them. Whereas

most people that went to go see into darkness

were like, oh that's from this Oh, that's from

this. Why can't they actually tell a damn good

story? I found so those people well, no, I'm

just I'm saying that in general when I went to

see this I'm like because I had seen Into Darkness

before I had seen Man of Steel obviously and

I was like hey they're kind of throwing homages

in here like Into Darkness is and yet Man of

Steel to me was doing it so much better. Okay

so we know he gets to earth what I loved about

this film is that it's not your A B C D story

it's point A is Krypton point B is he gets to

Kansas and But they basically skip over B and

they do like point seven five or whatever else

and they do this whole thing where he's already

grown up and we see The Kansas origin and flashbacks.

I love that. I thought that was a great way to

tell the Clark Hand story. Yeah, we talked about

how this might be the next Dark Knight or so,

but it's really the next Batman Begins, because

its structure is very similar to the way Batman

Begins was told. But I do like a lot of those

moments, but I do think that framework, the nonlinear

storytelling, is effective when used well. And

they use it well at certain elements, but at

certain times, it's not. done really effectively

and I think in some moments it's detriment to

the overall like character of Superman. Go ahead.

I just want to say I agree with you because I

think I think it was done like you said well

at times and then not at other times and that's

mainly because it wasn't always obvious because

they they blended that with also the aspects

of Basically them I don't know it wasn't always

clear where you were And and which time you were

in I mean it was obviously when they showed him

as a kid You knew he was a kid and whatnot, but

there was elements You know where he was having

flashbacks or he was scenes out in this area

in that area and it just wasn't as As concrete

for me at all times as you know it's kind of

hard to follow at times Not saying that I didn't

realize what time period we were in, but the

transitions were a little jarring at times. My

big issue with those was, I mean that was part

of it as well, but I think all those flashbacks,

except for maybe a few, they were all centered

on Clark Kent, not Clark Kent, it was always

centered on the superpower version, the superpowers

of Clark Kent, like him trying to hide himself

as a... him trying to separate himself from humanity,

trying to kind of like hide who he truly is.

It was all focused on him, that separation from

humanity. And there is very little of him kind

of getting to fall in love or becoming, to a

respect, or having a connection with humanity.

Like even like some of the moments with his father,

which I loved, but there was always a separation

there. Like it was always... him trying, this

father trying to kind of hold him down, and there

was never a moment where I felt, okay, I can

see where his love of humanity is coming from,

why he is going to be the symbol of hope, because

he's so disconnected. The only times I felt it

was actually showing the connection was with

the Diane Land moments, like the moment where

he's like, you know, make the world small, like

the, you know, when she's kind of... explaining

the moment where you see him as a kid with a

cape on his back like that or it was like a like

a Clothing that falls down looks like a cape,

but that was my key point like issue with it

I just never got an idea of who Clark Kenton

was as a person It was all about like hiding

himself, which I understand But I just I just

wanted more to understand like who he was as

a person I can see that. I agree that they didn't

do that with those. I don't think that was their

intention though at all with those flashbacks.

I don't think that could be an error on their

part, but I don't think it was that they did

a bad job of it. I just don't think they were

trying to do that. They weren't trying to give

us that connection, which maybe they should have.

To me, the reason I like those flashbacks is

because it was in place of, for me, not spending

a freaking 30 to 45 minutes learning how Clark

Kent comes to terms with his different powers

and how he homes them and how he trains them

and how he learns to harness them because so

many superhero films do that. It's been done

awful at a couple of different times in Spider

-Man's history where they just spend way too

much time with us seeing how he comes to term

with his powers and how he can harness them,

where we don't need to see that because we get

it. We've been exposed to these characters for

a long time. Well, general audiences might need

it, not necessarily us. Not for a character,

like not for some of these characters. They might

need it in some of the more secondary superhero

characters. Everybody knows Spider -Man, Batman,

and Superman. I mean, unless you lived in a cave

your entire life. So I kind of liked that they

did this because it showed it on a more human

element It showed it when he was a kid coming

to terms with it. I loved the effects they used

for the x -ray vision That was better than I've

ever seen that done So I like how they did it

and it was in small bits and pieces so they didn't

have to waste a whole lot of the time that could

be used on other dialogue, other character development.

So I, I like that they use the flashbacks for

that. I agree that maybe it would have been better

if they were wanting to do, if they had chosen

to do more flashbacks to show that human connection.

Um, I just think that was more so an error of

that's not what their intention was rather than

they did it poorly type thing. Well, let's see.

And see, that's the thing with this film. This

film is, first of all, Jonathan Kent wants him

to hide his abilities. And this is kind of, he

wants him to hide it for a time Well right for

a time right exactly and that's kind of an homage

to smallville because there were a lot of times

in the first season of smallville Where John

Schneider's version of Jonathan Kent was kind

of doing the same thing. Oh, well, we're afraid

You know someone's gonna come take you away.

You need to not let you know and again, it kind

of Kind of reminds me of the Incredibles at the

end where you know where they're like, oh, hey

sure go out for sports But the whole movie they're

like, no, you can't go out for sports but it's

one of those things where Jonathan Kent has never

actively ever in any incarnation to my knowledge

in other media not in comics but in other media

there has never been a Jonathan Kent that has

said this other than like I said the smallville

version but like actively for the majority of

whatever the whether it's a movie or television

series this isn't your Daddy's Jonathan Kent.

This is a Jonathan Kent for this age, and I loved

Costner's performance of it I I was kind of when

I first heard the news of Kevin Costner is Jonathan

Kent What what are they doing? But you know I

was optimistic about it, and I was you know I

was fine with it when I watched the movie. I

thought he played a damn good Jonathan Kent Diane

Lane, I didn't think she was as old as she is

I didn't think that she could You know pull off

a Martha Kent, but she does because she's 48

Didn't realize she was that old already. I gotta

ask Dan because in your view when you're talking

about Jonathan Kent you basically say That obviously

yeah, he wants the clerk to hide his gift for

the safety of his child and the rest of the world

He believes the world is not ready to know they're

not alone I agree with all that but then you

make a statement that says his justification

may be sketchy I was just one one clarification

on that. What did you mean by that? Basically

it If he's going to basically say the world's

not ready for this character like if like I'm

willing to die I'm willing to die because You

know, I don't want the world to know who you

are That to me is a little like okay, like that

seems a little bit far -fetched like it's he's

going to kill himself like a literally kill himself

because He doesn't want the world to know that

his son is super powered or he thinks that just

knowing the knowledge of the knowledge of of

of clark would be so fundamentally disruptive

to our society that we would crumble because

i i think when he's telling clark to hide it's

pretty evident that he doesn't want It just for

the safety of his kid but also for humanity as

itself like when that bus Accident happens and

he's talking to her son and he asked them Should

I let them die and he says yeah, maybe and it's

kind of like the Spock moment where he's like

the neat means, you know the the needs of the

many outweigh the needs of the few because it's

he's talking about well, yes, you may save these

kids, but what if then You know what? You're

Clarket and basically the nuclear deterrent that

there is no deterrent to turn for this character

that you cannot stop there's nothing that can

stop him and What does that mean? Like what what's

gonna happen in society when that? Knowledge,

you know comes about like this is a more realistic

world where there's wars There's the military

is going to be afraid of a character like that.

So I it seems like he's very Skeptical skeptical.

Wow skeptic. He's very afraid about what would

happen to the world as a whole with Jonathan

Kent or with him finding out who Superman was

so I just I just don't think it's the movie completely

justified his reasoning all the way I think it

okay it could have done a little bit better and

I just think that everything you said there Is

I agree with a hundred percent as far as everything

you said as far as Jonathan Kent's Opinions and

his thoughts and his feelings and why he's doing

what he is doing and to me that makes the justification

a hundred percent I just I just think the movie

doesn't go further enough with it because it

only makes a little bit of that it talks about

Like it talks about like that because when you're

just listening people talk about Jonathan can

in this and like he's like, oh, he just wants

his son to hide. He's afraid for his son. He's

just trying to protect his son. I think people

aren't catching up on the fact that it's it's

greater than that. And it's because it's only

mentioned briefly. So I think it I think that.

Was a key issue because if they expanded upon

that further in him he talked to his son Well,

this is not just about you. This is about the

world. But really I think it was just focused

on it just seemed like he was being overprotective

But to me it seemed like beyond that there is

more to it Just I think if they maybe touched

upon a little bit further it would have made

sense Those like I mentioned in my review to

those were some of my favorite parts of the movie

I just think if they kind of I think that they

had a justification there. They kind of sold

themselves short in a way Yeah, that could have

been more grand of a justification. I mean, I

don't think there's a problem even if it was

just for the safety of his child, which it wasn't.

To me, that's completely relatable. I think any

father would act in a similar way. But I agree

that there was more justification than that.

And he could see the bigger picture. He could

see that it was more so not just for his child,

but the world and both of them coexisting and

whatnot. So yeah, I think that now that you say

it that way, I think they could have. added a

little bit to that and I wouldn't have complained

about more scenes between Clark and Jonathan

because Kevin Costner was perfect in that role.

And that's really the whole point of this movie

kind of when it comes to Superman and technically

They basically removed truth, justice, and the

American way. It's truth, justice, and the way

of the world, because he's supposed to be a hero

for the entire planet in this film. And I think

the thing with that is that they don't, they

go about the storytelling in a way that you don't

know if the world is ready for him. You don't

know if he's ready for the world. And when we

finally do see him up until almost the very end

of the movie, The United States is like, oh,

this guy's an enemy, blah, blah, blah. Because

they think he's, because he has all these powers

and everything else. And that is justified. I

mean, you see someone like that coming. But in

every other incarnation, the world has essentially

loved him, specifically for after the Lois Lane

interviews and stuff like that and the other

incarnations. But as I said, this is a completely

different version. In my mind, they never even

used Jimmy Olsen. I know the female character

of The Day of the Planet is called Jenny, but

that's not... They basically put Jimmy Olsen

inside Lois because Lois was carrying a camera

half the time. I don't know. I really enjoyed

the film overall. I thought it was great. What

did you think of the fact that Lois Lane is able

to... quickly just figure out who Superman really

is. I liked it because that's another point amongst

the Superman fandom that's kind of divided whether

they want you know you got the people that are

78ers that oh the triangle must exist the love

triangle between Superman Clark Kent and Lois

Lane must exist I've always hated that I'm sorry

I have it's just dumb. This version of Lois Lane

is not a ditz whatsoever. She is freaking smart,

of course she's gonna know, and she's done all

this tracking down to try to find him because,

I mean, hell, he, you know, cauterized her wounds

when she got shot in the ship. So, you know,

she's out there. doing the reporter thing. I

know Kevin is like, oh, I want to say something

now because I can hear him breathing. But it's

like she's out there doing stuff, and she's not

just the damsel in distress in this film, which

I absolutely love that. There's one time, well,

technically two times that she's needed to be

saved in the entire movie. And I just absolutely

loved her character. I didn't even realize it

was Amy Adams until after I looked her up after

I got home. It's like, oh, hey, what's the Muppet

movie chick doing in this? Go ahead give um,

I mean You Dan you're specifically talking about

the last scene where she kind of smiles and it's

obvious that she knows who it is No, I'm talking

about the disturbing ability to kind of Go through

all these events and like you she you know She

goes after she's basically like to meet Clark

and at the grave of his father simply You know

cuz she tracks down she kind of you know does

some research, follows all these different leads,

and then is able to kind of come to that conclusion.

She doesn't know he's Clark Kent, but she can

kind of put the puzzles together because no one

knows who Clark Kent is at this point. Right.

I mean, I don't have a problem with her necessarily

knowing who he is. I mean, they so avoid all

of the whole multiple you know personas they

avoid the go in a phone booth and turn into superman

type thing um it's really not until that last

scene that you even remember almost that oh wait

a second you know the people aren't supposed

to know who clark kent is um it's it's something

that i think modern audiences are getting used

to the fact or maybe they've been spoiled not

spoiled but all the recent superhero films As

far as you know Iron Man and and and all these

different characters that we've been exposed

to recently everybody knows who they are in the

movies and you know, you know who Iron Man is

you don't need to whether he's in a suit or not.

You basically know that's him Etc. So it's something

that we've almost kind of kind of become accustomed

to but it was it was kind of weird to me that

That last scene did not play well with me When

he became Clara he becomes Clark Kent and all

sudden he's gonna put because you're either gonna

do it or you're not gonna do it like You're either

gonna have it where people know who he is or

you're gonna have it where he is The man that

is two different people that has to use the disguise

that has to keep it hidden and for me I'm fine

with the film allowing people to know who he

is and I realize not everyone sees him so not

everybody knows but it just seems weird then

to at the end make it like, oh, now he's in disguise

and now nobody knows who he is except for, you

know, Lois Lane and whoever else, I guess, was

there that saw him that day. Well, see, that's

the thing. It's where actually the entire military

that was there with them should know because

she turns to him and says, oh, Clark, so that

was really the only dumb moment Lois had in the

film. But honestly, looking back at the movie.

She's really the only one that knows yeah, it

just seemed it just seems weird Cal L. They don't

know like and again if she hadn't said his his

his his earth name, you know They would have

I honestly don't think anyone but her know Well,

I know but but I'm just saying as it plays to

an audience Were there with it and we're not

they needed to have a scene somewhere before

the final scene That showed Somebody not somebody

coming into contact with Clark Kent That specifically

doesn't you know some type of scene that sets

it up where they don't know he's Superman You

know where it where it smacks us in the face

that? he is two different people to the world

and because we're along for the ride the whole

time and they never give us that smack in the

face it's and and we're seeing that Lois knows

who he is etc it's like we're forgetting the

fact that he's these two different personas and

then all of a sudden at the end he puts on glasses

he gets a job and oh he's you know, nobody knows

who he is. To me, that was jarring because there

was no time other. I mean, yes, he's hiding his

identity to a point and he's living on the farm

and he's, you know, not showing his powers in

front of people. But he had showed his powers

in front of multiple people. So, I mean, I just

needed a scene where we got that idea that there

was these dual personalities and it didn't happen

in the movie. So when it gets thrown in at the

end, I found that really jarring. Yeah, because

it does kind of seem like everyone in smallville

would know it's Clark Kent because it seems pretty

evident that When they go to someone who has

special powers, it's gonna be Clark Kent because

it I mean the research wasn't that hard that

she did she Look at how many different instances

were read off in that scene where it was like,

oh kids save school bus Oh this blah blah I mean

there was like five or six different things that

happened that all the people that were I mean

She got to she tracked down people that knew

exactly who he was that led her to him So it

shouldn't be that easy. You know what I mean?

I don't know. I was hoping that they would get

rid of it. To me, this is the way the movie was

working. I was almost hoping they would kind

of get rid of the whole Clarket persona in a

way, because I thought that would be kind of

an interesting way to go and do kind of what

they did with Iron Man and like, you know, the

whole I am Iron Man. So we everyone knows who

he is. I do think the Clarket. Portion of Superman

though can be important because it it kind of

shows it allows them to establish those relationships

But I had no issue with Lois finding out when

it comes like I know a lot of there a lot of

Superman fans out there They have a lot of ownership

of this material and they want things to be a

certain way personally when it comes to me in

movies like I I want movie I want movie makers

to take material and make it their own. I have

no kind of set up expectations that you have

to do something certain. This was done in the

past so you have to do it this way because I

feel fans are never happy because if you're too

close to the source material people get angry

and if you... Diverged from it people get angry.

So I just to me it's just like do what you want

to do long as it makes sense in the movie That's

fine. I I had no issue with it regarding like

oh she shouldn't know or what whatnot I did find

it was kind of it was too easy like you mentioned

it and the whole Clark Kent thing it just I don't

know I don't know how it's gonna work and I heard

someone say this is not something I came up with

but they're like this is kind of more of a Clark

Kent origin story than a Superman origin story

because that's where he ends up being like that's

his Costume he finally puts on is that Clark

Kent persona? and I can see that to a certain

extent but I I I kind of do wish like I liked

how Amy Adams in or not even Adams but Lois Lane

wasn't just that love interest and she kind of

wasn't one kind of propelling the character and

she was the kind of the smallest of the Relationships

he had towards humanity and I talked about why

I felt the Smallville flashbacks lacked a connection

and why I think it's important is because you

have that huge moment where he is basically Sacking

sacrificing himself for earth and to me it just

it didn't play well because I didn't see why

Like he would do that or like the justification.

I understand he wants to be the symbol of hope

He is kind of going off what his father tells

him but I just never get a sense of his viewpoint

of what humanity is or What humanity sees him

as like what what obviously he's only been Superman

for like what four hours What have you so it

just I don't know that that moment didn't work

well for me because there was no I just didn't

know Like what well, how does he see other people

like what is his viewpoint on? On humans it doesn't

I never really got an understanding of that I

would hope and I would think that That would

be more of the moral issue and moral dilemma

of the of the second movie um where that is when

he has to come to terms with you know his connection

with the human race and you know are these people

worth you know you know so you know they're going

to do him wrong at some point or they're going

to let him down or they're going to disappoint

him and you know he has to come to terms with

that um and really find his place amongst the

people and become you know especially now that

he's going to be hiding as clark kent um supposedly

i guess um to really you know see how he fits

in with them um I think that might have been

a bit much to try to get into in the initial

film, but maybe I'm wrong. I guess I could see

that. I guess the issue for me was they kind

of made it an important moment because that was

that key scene where he's making this decision

that he doesn't know what's going to happen.

He could kill himself, basically. He doesn't

know what they're going to do. the fact that

he's going to do this because he doesn't want

his planet to get destroyed. But on a deeper,

more personal level, he had very little connection

to Earth. He had his mother and this random girl

he found out he just kind of hooked up with in

the mountains, but that was about it. What do

we think of Zod and the terraforming plan? Let

me just preface this. I've gone back and I've

looked at all the Superman films specifically.

They're all about real estate, every single one

of them. Superman 1, Lex Luthor wanted to rip

off California from the US. Superman 2. not necessarily.

Superman III real estate. Superman IV, Lex again.

Superman Returns, it was Lex doing, you know,

creating his own island, so technically also

real estate. And then this, Zod is wanting to

terraform the planet to make it a new Krypton.

I mean, to me, I have no problem with it because

that's in his DNA. That is his job. That is what

he has been bred to do, is to protect his planet

and his people. And now that the one planet's

gone, he has to come up with another idea. So

it makes sense to make another planet. They have

these things that they have been using on other

planets to make them hospitable for their people.

So it makes sense. have been tracked earth so

i have no problem with that part that makes complete

sense for a villain scheme more so than a lot

of villains games i've seen in the past yeah

i i agree um i i thought it made sense he's trying

to conquer the world that's pretty much all super

villains try to do is conquer the world um i

the kind of going deeper though i did think there

was a lot like there was a lot they had going

on just with like late like like the whole codex

thing and there there was a lot within that.

I'm still trying to figure out what the whole

Codex thing is and how it relates to Superman

and how it's in his blood. I think that's probably

something they're going to expand on further

down. They expanded on it here. The Codex was

basically all of Krypton's babies that were under

the sea. Basically, before they sealed him up

in the ship, Jor -El infused Clark, or Kal -El,

whatever the fuck you want to call him, infused

his son with Krypton's birthright. So he basically

inserted millions of children inside. So basically,

Clark's pregnant. Pretty much. That's what it

boils down to. My question then would be, what

was the point of that? What did that then lead

to? Okay, that point will be probably... Yeah,

that's what I'm talking about. But the whole

point was Zod was looking for the codex and the

codex. Oh, it's in the barn. Oh, it's here. Oh,

it's there. Oh no, it's in my enemy. Great. How

am I supposed to do this now? To me, it was more

so the fact that, okay, you have an inhabitant

of Krypton there in Clark Kent, in Kal -El. uh...

so in a way and just surviving is going to carry

on that race or that people but so it is is really

only one woman on earth that actually carries

child which is one of them does no i'm going

to say that he carries that he carried the DNA

so him alone would if he was able to procreate

uh... would be able to carry on in a way you

even if it was deluded with You know another

being or whatever he would be able to carry that

on I think it was just a way of Making his DNA

so it's not just him, but it's representative

of all of the people on Krypton So it's like

they're all surviving through his DNA when he

eventually has a child if that were to be the

case That's kind of what I read into it, but

they didn't really go there so that could just

be completely expand on it too much Yeah, I don't

think it's like that that that they're gonna

somehow be able to extract that and recreate

all these different people It was more so that

his DNA is is representative of all of the people.

So if he was to carry on they all I guess carry

on I know that's hokey, but I don't know regarding

like Zod is like chin Michael Shannon as odd

I had a lot of like I really high expectations

for that character all met I love Michael Shannon

and he was great in like take shelter and revolutionary

road. He's ability to be really hammy and really

huge actor but Bring some credibility to it.

So I thought he would be perfect for a character

of Zod and that overall I think his performance

was good He had some good moments, but I guess

I I can't think of like a moment I go back to

and think okay That is like the moment that it's

gonna live on beyond this film a film moment

I'm gonna go back to and thinking okay. This

is when like Shannon showed what he do with this

role I just I don't think they really gave him

that opportunity and But what he did well with

what he had, but overall, it just, it was just

kind of like a ho -hum type of character for

the most part, beyond in the way he related to

Ken. Like, there's no moment where I felt like,

okay, this is, you have that showdown between

Superman and Zod. It was just a punching contest.

There was nothing beyond that. There's no strong

dialogue between characters. Yeah. Well, and

that's the thing that, well, comparing to the

most recent, which was seven years ago uh...

superman returns a .k .a. shitty returns superman

didn't throw a single punch or if he did it was

one punch and that was it so people were complaining

back then of oh superman's not actually fighting

anybody and i think now people are like oh my

god there's too much violence in superman because

between the smallville battle and the metropolis

battle those cities are just decimated by and

and and a lot of people i've heard a lot of different

cement fans and and other fans of of this genre

that that and then podcasts on the already have

said that all why didn't you move the battle

instead of putting in in metropolis downtown

why didn't you know that was some feel that sounds

like i've heard so far but i don't know i know

but it's people argue that he's supposed to save

everybody and that's the thing i don't think

he can save everybody number one number two this

is a superman that has been sheltered his entire

earth life you know he's told not to use his

powers he's told you know not pretty much by

his dad don't save them regardless you know I

could see that if that was like that if this

was like the third of this series and He's knows

his powers and knows how to harness them completely

and he realized that he's all for the people

but like this is his he's he's fighting a Person

from his home planet that he didn't even know

existed at the beginning of the damn movie, right?

This is the first movie. This is him first, you

know, there's no timeouts. Let's move this to

a field Right. No, I know but a lot of the argument

is that well You know, people that are arguing

this or people that have known the character

for the last, you know, 75 years of his history

or whatever you want to call it. And then like,

oh, well, Superman would never let somebody die.

Superman would never kill. Superman has killed

before. He killed Zod in the comics. And we'll

get to that here in a bit, here in a few minutes.

But like for me, I didn't... I just use it, you

know, logically where the battle in Metropolis...

Outside of the Daily Planet building every other

building is emptied out by then in in my mind

and honestly to me yes Morpheus aka Lawrence

Fishburne did play a damn good Perry White, but

honestly the Daily Planet crew is So unneeded

in this film honestly outside of Perry and Lois

the rest of them are so unneeded I felt no emotion

for Jenny being trapped whatsoever I just didn't

feel any emotion at all for her whatsoever being

trapped in that battle scene I will say that

the The world engine or whatever the hell the

thing that's drilling for the center of the earth's

core first thing I thought of was hey Are they

gonna drop some red matter in there? Because

it looks I swear to God once it's in the ground.

It looks just like the damn thing from Star Trek

Getting back a little bit though before we go

too far off to Zod's character, I don't know.

I guess I had a different take than Dan on that.

I thought he was one of the more memorable characters

in the entire movie. First of all, I think that

was genius casting. Now, I don't know a lot about

Zod's character or whatever, but when... when

I hear the depiction of him, when I hear the

descriptions of him, this is the type of person

I picture. So I thought from just a visual standpoint,

he looked the part perfectly. And I do think

he did a great job with the mannerisms and then

the different, you know, injections that he put

into the character. I think there was some conversation

between him and Superman. Obviously, it didn't

lend itself to a lot of dialogue, but they do

discuss, you know, him killing his father, and

then there are little bits and pieces there.

But it's not during the battle, though. Well,

I mean, to me that's... There's that one moment

when like that dream is frequency. I just came

to me now where like he's getting like drowned

by all those skulls, but for the most part they're

they like the real rivalry is not so much between

Kal -El and Zod is more so Jor -El and Zod like

they're that is more but obviously, I mean it

makes sense their their relationship goes, you

know is going on for decades and he's just knowing

hello, but it just I To me, it's just like, what

would you say is your favorite Zod moment in

the movie? I guess that's what I would... I mean,

I don't judge. I guess it's maybe how we watch

movies. I don't need that memorable moment or

that thing that's going to live on afterwards

with the characters, more so the overall portrayal

of it. And it's more so just remembering the

character in general. Whereas some of the characters

from this movie and some of the other superhero

movies, I forget that they're almost even in

the film later on. Whereas when I think of Man

of Steel, I'm always going to think of two people

and that's Superman and Zod. I might have little

thoughts of Superman's father, just because I

think Russell Crowe did a fantastic job with

that. But I'm always going to think of these

two characters. And I didn't expect too much.

I mean, like you said, with the rivalries between

Jor -El and Zod, they're the ones that have known

each other their whole lives. And he even carries

that on. Past Jor -El's death when he's interacting

with him, you know in And Jor -El the computer,

the hologram. Jor -El the hologram. So they even

carry it on in that. I don't see any justification

for him having a lot of relationship or dialogue

with Kal -El because all Kal -El is to Zod is

an object that needs to be killed. An object

that he wants vengeance on, he wants his DNA,

and that's all. It literally set it up perfectly

in that one sequence when he says, does he need

to be living for this to work? And the guy says,

no. Kal -el was nobody to him. He doesn't need

to converse with him. He doesn't need to have

a relationship with him. He just needs his DNA

Yeah, I could I could see that I could see just

saying overall general, but I guess To me it's

more interesting if there's something there I

think that's the great thing if we're gonna say

Compare this dark thing like we've been doing

like that to me is one makes dark night great

should you go back to that movie? There's not

that much action. It's that relationship between

Batman and Joker and how See with Joker, I kind

of, I'm sorry, I always interrupt you. You just

kind of said the same thing and I was thinking

of the other one with Bane. I don't remember

a single moment from the movie with Bane that

I would say, wow, that character stood out for

me. But he's also one that kind of faded away

for me. He was not even that big of a part of

that movie for me. Whereas Zod, even though there

was not that moment like you get with the Joker,

like you get with some of Spider -Man's villains

at times. He just overall had this big presence

to him and I just thought it would keep going.

Yeah, I just to me I just if I'm like that Showdown

like that moment between them. I could see like

he's just he Caldell for his audacious. He's

just a means to an end He just wants to kind

of use him to get to his ultimate plan and I

could see that but I like I like having stakes

like having something to get invested in and

like if The characters don't even invest like

if there's nothing really to go off of except

for like Blatant action, which is fine to a certain

extent But when it goes on for as long as it

does, I just need something more there for it

to be I guess my question was what would it be?

What would you have them converse about? anything,

I mean Really just the fact that there is on

how you do today. Let's Like the fact that he's

just I mean, he's just a dude in a suit to him

There's nothing it's just it could be anyone

like that could what's the point of having a

character? Like using iconic villain or using

Zod when it's just a punching bag. There's nothing

more to it like why even though Dan is odd is

never Like I said before it was Superman the

movie Zod was never really and again I'm not

counting comics just so the audience and listeners

know I'm not counting comics specific to other

media Zod has never been The character that is

very talkative with Superman, but he's not just

a man of the suit in this He's all kinds of characters

and that's all portrayed with the person he has

a history with with Jor -El Right, and that's

the thing here is that it's this movie is not

about Zod Superman. This movie is about Zod and

Jor -El and the thing with Zod and Superman is

the two of them have never, at least in my knowledge

of the Superman mythos, they've never really

had a long -down drag -out talkative fight. I

mean, yeah sure, you know, I'll count Superman

2 with Terrence Stamp, but other than that, the

one that always talks to him and the one that

always converses with him all the time is Lex.

And Lex is the one that constantly gets Superman's

goat. In other media, so I just think if it would

have been between Zod and Superman if there would

have been that type of relationship to me that

would have been completely off -putting because

I'm not even saying like they have to have a

huge gigantic like relationship, but I'm saying

Give me something that has stakes to it that

final battle between Zod and Superman means nothing.

There's no there's no downside There's nothing

there. There's there is one downside on how I

understand what you're saying I'm saying, what

are the stakes there? The stakes are he needs

his DNA. If he doesn't get it, he... Not in the

final fight, because that's all gone, because

the whole Genesis chamber is in the negative

zone. The only thing there is... Okay, he's...

Well, no, at that point, yeah, at that point,

he's been... At that point, he's just raging.

At that point, his whole plan and everything

that he's... He has that whole speech. Everything

I stand for is gone now. This is how I was bred

and you have taken that away from me. And that

was a lot of dialogue and that was some heavy

dialogue. Actually, if I was going to talk about

a moment for Zod, it's that moment when he is

just beaten and he says, basically, this is what

I was raised to be. It's that kind of human nature

aspect to it. gives a face to it he's like this

is what I was bred to be and now you've taken

that away from me you have ruined everything

that I have lived for my entire life and now

it's impossible and now I'm going to fuck you

up like but my thing is what are the like what

what are those things at that point it's all

been taken away I can't I can't get invested

in action that there's no stakes to so you can't

get nothing that has had everything taken away

from them and they're just out of desperation

just raging at that point Can if I have a solid

understanding of that character before that point

at that point I at that point all Zod is is There

like who is he as a person? What is it? He's

just like that like he's just he's not a person.

He's a bread. He is a bread That's me is not

very interesting if you're gonna give if if you're

going to Like make that moment if you're gonna

say well, this is everything I've been to like

I need to be invested into a character for that

to have Some sort of impact like I to that point.

I just like he's just happenstance. He's just

a plot point He's just being used to do things.

Oh my god Zod was not just a plot point dude

If you look at it from the entire beginning of

the film beginning of the film He was going to

take over Krypton and and repopulate it We were

already talked about he has gone to the Phantom

Zone and back and traveled across. He's killed

Jor -el He's done everything in his because he

is programmed to do this and everything is invested

in this exactly It's all action. It's not like

there's no no I'm not talking about I'm not talking

about the actual watch almost odds plot and storyline.

I don't think he's been doing the entire movie

like it just like he What is odds like this is

the thing like I I understand what you're saying

that yes there he There is some interest in seeing

a character that's one of the super villain monologues

so we can get his cave No, I just want I just

want something more than just blandness and that

to me was what was there for the most part like

I want something that is Like you have Michael

Shannon a high quality actor and you're giving

him nothing. You're giving him crappy dialogue

I think you need to watch that scene where he's

broken down and and he's just I mean that is

not bland There's nothing bland about that. That

is like that is pure human like something you

should be able to reach out and just you know

gravitate towards I mean that is someone being

beaten down to the point where They they literally

have everything ripped apart from them picture

a picture a father in a movie where his family

gets killed picture freaking like Mr. Incredible.

Well, no, I'm just talking about like those movies

where like a child is Killed or kidnapped or

taken hostage or whatever and that actor, you

know I think of like a Liam Neeson or you know,

someone like that where it's like you've taken

everything from me and I have nothing left and

and now you're gonna pay like I know that you

know that's kind of superficial but that's what

you should expect in a superhero movie from a

villain but like that is just like to call that

bland like that's so I'm talking about the dialogue

which is bland which is pretty bad in the movie

in general there's some there's some really bad

it does okay at the at the end battle That's

all it needed to be like those couple of lines

It did not need to be him monologuing because

at that point his plan was done Everybody except

him got sucked back into the Phantom Zone and

as Kevin already stated he was like well You've

taken everything from me now. I'm just going

to beat the fuck out of you And that was the

point what I'm what which would rather have happened

Did you want him to grab Lois by the throat and

say hey you better stop this or else? I'm gonna

kill her. I'd rather have something where it's

just like here's the thing The reason why that

it that would be okay if this is just him going

crazy and him trying to get back at Superman

for destroying his motivations. That's fine The

issue is when you have that action scene going

on for another additional 20 to 30 minutes when

you've already had like What's felt like 30 45

minutes of action only up to that when you have

so much action? Disliking the amount of action.

That's one of my biggest faults with the movie

I just don't get it as in compared to what I'm

trying to say with it is if you're going to have

What I'm saying with that is if you're gonna

have that final showdown like this is these this

is what we've been waiting for right this Superman

and Todd to face off and What I'm saying is it's

a lot more memorable. There's a lot more to it

when there's at least like something Like there's

it was just blatant emotion. There was nothing

more to it than Anger which I understand. I just

I just I wish there was something more to there

than that. Basically. It's just I just didn't

under I just didn't feel like I knew who Superman

was as a character and I didn't understand really

who Zod was besides as a character and they were

just kind of shells that's the part that Boggles

me a little bit is not understanding because

to me the whole movie focus develops odd as a

character so I guess that's where I Don't really

agree with that because I just think all his

like his he's just blatant motivation. That's

all he is. It's just conquer and destroy. Which

is fine, but they try to make him a sympathetic

villain by having Jor -El say something like,

he used to be a good man, but now you're not.

And that was the justification showing he's a

sympathetic villain. He's just all motivation.

I don't think he's ever trying to destroy anything,

though. He's always trying to build something.

He kills all the members, not all the members,

but he blatantly attacks all the members of the

council. He's going to commit genocide on a planet.

His motivation isn't to destroy, his motivation

is to build his... People back up based upon

I mean regardless of if it's sketchy as hell

the way he's trying to do it Obviously genocide

etc, but he I don't think his motivation is to

destroy his motivation is to keep his people

going it is to build them up and Yeah, sorry,

it should basically survival not so much destroying

he wants his people to flourish which I just

I don't know to me if you're Like this movie

is so obviously going going for that no one asked

Dark Knight trilogy feel. And the key moment

of all those movies, maybe not Dark Knight Rises,

is that there's a relationship or there's something

more to the protagonist and the antagonist. It's

more than just... See, that's the thing though,

Dan, is that this is not... But it's blatantly

trying to be. Yes it is, but it also isn't. It's

different, specifically - The difference is because

the Dark Knight trilogy, you're starting with

someone that is from Earth. you're you're dealing

with someone's about that it's about the fact

of hero versus bill understand we have to introduce

the uh... we have to introduce uh... another

worldly aspect in uh... in the superman series

where we don't have to deal with that and and

and and so it's easier to have those connections

where as we had we We're dealing with the generation

gap here. And that's why I don't fault this one

quite as much because to me, the interaction

and the connection is between Jor -El and Kal

-El. And this is just a way to introduce where

Superman came from. It's not so much about Superman

versus Zod. It's more what Zod was trying to

do. and why he needed Superman, and now that

that chapter is out of the way and we've told

that backstory, we can get to, hopefully, in

the second or third film, or both, an interaction

between Superman and someone he has then the

vested interest in or where there is that connection

because there is no history. It would be artificial

between Zod and Superman. for me. So that's why

I kind of forgive it. Okay, I do what you're

saying there. And if you're not going to do it

with the villain, fine, because you don't have

the time in trying to pigeonhole a relationship

where there can't be, okay, I'll give you that.

But it's telling that we've gotten this far into

the conversation, and we've really yet to even

talk about Superman. Let's go ahead and talk

about Superman. That's kind of my point, though,

is that this is a Superman movie where the character

of Superman, I understand it's an origin story

and we're seeing him grow, and I just think Henry

Cavill, that character we see when he put on

the suit, I do feel like... Don't know like I

wish I could say like who he was a Superman But

at this point we don't really have a solid understanding

not saying they can't get there with more movies

and obviously there's more to come so they're

leaving room open I understand that but I think

it's pretty telling that it's we haven't really

even touched upon it yet I agree with you 100

% and for me, it's more so this is the thing.

I Think the problem in a way is is Not so much

because I don't I didn't have a problem with

it at the time but it's more so to me this film

should be It would seem easier if they were unveiling

Superman just at the end If instead of unveiling

Clark Kent as his persona at the end if it was

the the end of the movie was now we have the

Superman character it would have maybe Worked

better because we get to see the cape and and

and the superhero persona so early That I agree

with you. It seems like we don't learn anything

about that part of the character throughout the

film And it seems like there's a lot of time

that there could have been Whereas it almost

was more so it should have been you know If it

was going to be this backstory if it was going

to be mostly about Zod and and Jor -El etc That

it would it just seemed like it was should have

been more about his his upbringing his childhood

his his pre Superman state And he gets to have

that battle with him and realize all his powers

there at the end and and then he gets the cape

or something I don't know how they would have

done it, but because they they introduced his

look so early I agree with you. It seems like

they don't develop Superman as a character It's

more so to me a film about his up to when he

becomes Superman even though it kind of was I

don't know if any of that made sense, but once

he becomes see that's the difference between

this and the 78 film is that A 78 film, as I

said before, beat by beat, you know, Krypton,

young Clark, high school Clark, whatever, you

know, and then adult Clark, hey, I need to head

north and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and he

spends all this time in the fortress. And that's

the difference between this and that is that

in this you have Hollow Jor -El, the entire movie

explaining something, explaining stuff to him

versus him sitting up in this fortress of solitude

for six months. and then putting on the suit.

See, for me, I didn't think putting on the suit

as early as it happened in Man of Steel was that

bad. I actually enjoyed it more because we had

already... I enjoyed it. I just think it lends

to what Dan's saying there is then you don't

develop him as that character because basically

all he has to do is battle. This is a development

movie. This is, as you've already stated, this

is an introductory movie. This is the world first

meeting this person. cuz really the only time

he's ever called superman is by some army soldier

you know military person and then the guys like

all of us are going to call him you know so i

mean the names superman really isn't mentioned

that much the entire movie at this point and

that's i kinda like it because It isn't like

other Superman properties where people have known

him for years or this anything because this is

an instructing movie this you know You see him

as soon as he puts the suit on you see him testing

his powers You see him test. I love the flight

in this movie. This is by far the best flight

ever Yeah, I agree. I mean the special effects

in general. I thought were pretty impressive.

I love the flight I love the fact that they like

You know they've shown it off in previous incarnations

as far as like his his takeoffs and stuff But

in some incarnations just kind of like up up

and away and we whereas this it's more powerful

where there there's a couple of scenes where

he has to kneel down and he pushes off the ground

and I love the whole way of how he started out

leaping tall valleys in a single bound and you

know he he starts you know training himself with

these powers i love that whole sequence and i

think that builds him up as superman even though

it doesn't build him up as the superman the world

knows because as i've said this movie is introducing

him to the world uh... you know the whole thing

is you know the the humans are scared of them

just like they're scared of zod because they

don't know they don't know where these people

have come from you know And I love, I would say

my favorite non -action scene is when he breaks

the handcuffs. That whole scene with him in that

jail cell was probably my favorite scene of him.

Yeah. But I think, I don't know if Dan will agree

with me or not, I think he might, but. To me

what this movie did it did all of the superficial

Superman stuff perfectly or better than we've

ever seen it before and i'm talking about showing

the superpowers i'm talking about the flight

i'm talking about uh casting a person that you

could not find a human being on a planet that

looks more like what I want Superman to look

like, and the whole cape and costume and everything.

To me, I know a lot of people had some issues

with it. I think that's the best costume for

Superman I've ever seen. It was like they got

all of that stuff right, but I will agree with

Dan to a point where they didn't necessarily

go under any of that. They didn't delve into

the actual person. Under all of that who has

all those powers outside of you know, some of

the flashbacks and whatnot I just think between

the flashbacks and when he's actually Fighting

full -fledged with a handle on all his powers.

There was a little gap Where we didn't get enough

of the adult Clark Kent before He became Superman.

I don't know. Yeah, I actually when I'm like

or 100 % agree with what you said. Overall, that's

probably my favorite part of the movie is the

technical side of it, the special effects, the

look. I love the way they present the small film

flashbacks and how it's really this really homely

look. They kind of have a really warming atmosphere

to them that I really appreciate it. And it really

differs from the present day, and I think it

really established that. like their importance

really well through that cinematography, through

the look and just the look of the costume I thought

too makes a lot of sense. The moment of him walking

like on the white snow like just with the cape

flowing, that was gorgeous. I thought like overall

it was really gorgeous looking movie along with

some of the more darker elements like the juxtaposition

between like Earth and like the kind of harsh

atmosphere of Krypton and how those work. Yeah,

I agree on that aspect of it and the score I

wouldn't mention to it like the score from Hans

Zimmer I thought that was excellent. I love that

and it's a lot different than what he did he

has done with Nolan for what I felt because with

like the Nolan score It's a lot of like extended

listen to on your iPod because it just like it's

not very Thematic it's not very there's not a

lot of grandeur which no one score because he

did all three he did begins night and night returns

I mean the trilogy and he's yeah, I know but

that's what I'm saying is like he's done all

three in it for me He's also done inception.

He's pretty much all the big Yeah, it's pretty

much the Nolan score But for me compare it like

if I was gonna again comparing films here for

scores. I would compare Actually contrast this

the Man of Steel score to the Dark Knight score

because the Dark Knight specific score is Not

those high up tempo beats. It's more of the slow

Not a slow burn, but the slow milat like you

take a listen to that Joker theme from Dark Knight

It's slow dark and creepy. Where is this? Again,

it goes to two characters of Batman and Superman