Western Retrospective: McCabe and Mrs. Miller

Hi, this is John Delancey and you are listening

to the GeekCast Radio Network. Hello and welcome

to episode 246 of the Cinema Geeks. I am one

of your Cinema Geeks Optimist Solo and joining

me as usual is the Comic Concierge. Hello, Dan.

Hello. How are you? Good, I'm good. We're back

at it again. We are entering into a new segment

of our Western retrospective. So we just got

done with a block of episodes that were covering

remakes versus originals. We did both the original

and remake for 310 to Yuma, True Grit, and The

Magnificent Seven. So if you want to hear any

of those discussions, make sure you go back a

few episodes and listen to those. We also had

a modern movie review with the Masters of the

Universe review that we were both able to see

in theater. So that was pretty cool. And now

we're entering a new section of a different look

at some Westerns here. We have three films in

what we're calling Overlooked Westerns. We have

two films from the 1950s that we'll get into

in the next two episodes. But today we're actually

going to deal with one from 1971. It is entitled

McCabe and Mrs. Miller. And before we get the

facts on this one, Dan, I believe all three of

these films are first -time watches for you?

Yeah, I've not watched any of these at all. So

these are all brand new for me. And same for

me. So I think it might be the first time that

we have a whole section where neither of us have

seen any of them. So it'll definitely be interesting

to see as we go through here. ChatGBT told me

that I was going to like... one of these films

for sure and i was not going to like one of these

films for sure i don't remember where the middle

one was so we'll have to wait and see and we'll

see if they're right or not i guess it's they

i just i just made the chat gpt they i guess

uh anyways before we get into our thoughts on

this one dan's gonna lay the foundation and give

you guys the facts and then we'll come back with

our opinions If a frog had a microphone, it would

probably have a podcast. This week, we continue

our Western Retrospective with a look at McCabe

and Mrs. Miller from 1971, directed by Robert

Altman. The story follows John McCabe, played

by Warren Beatty. He's a gambler and a small

-time businessman who arrives in a remote riding

town that is a rough settlement just beginning

to grow. He sees an opportunity and he establishes

a brothel and quickly becomes one of the town's

most successful figures. Their success, though,

attracts the attention of the powerful Harrison

Shaughnessy Mining Company, who wants to buy

McCabe's business. Mrs. Miller understands the

danger and advises him to accept the offer. But

McCabe, he is pride and he believes in himself.

So he rejects it. Soon afterwards, though, the

company sends three hired gunmen to deal with

him. As the threat closes in, McCabe realizes

he's outmatched and begins searching for ways

to avoid confrontation, but his options steadily

disappear. The climax unfolds during a snowstorm

that covers the entire town and the wilderness.

While the townspeople become occupied with putting

out a fire at the local church, McCabe is forced

into a desperate struggle with the gunmen that

have come to kill him. Rather than your heroic

showdown that you often get with the Western

of this ilk, this is no shootout at the OK Corral.

Here, the conflict, it's messy, it's tense, and

driven by survival. McCabe does manage to kill

some of those that pursue him through cunning

and mostly luck, but he's ultimately shot and

left to die alone in the snow. unnoticed by the

community he helped build. At the same time,

Mrs. Miller retreats into an opium den, emotionally

detached from the events around her. The film

ends on this note, emphasizing the loneliness

of these characters and the triumph of corporate

power over individual ambition. Oof, that hurts

and very much rings true to today. The movie

is based upon the novel McKay by Edmund Nunn.

During the development, some people involved

with the production wanted the film to simply

be called McCabe, but Robert Altman insisted

that Mrs. Miller was just as important to the

story as McCabe. leading to the final title.

Rather than finding an existing Western set,

director Robert Altman had the production build

a town in British Columbia almost exactly as

the town develops in the story. The movie was

filmed largely in sequence, which is very unusual

in Hollywood. As filming progressed, new buildings

were added, allowing actors to experience the

town growing around them just like the characters

did. That decision got enhanced with how the

weather worked out. The production expected cold

weather in British Columbia, of course, but the

heavy snowfall that arrived during the climax

gave the finale a much more haunting look than

originally advised. Altman embraced the conditions

and rewrote aspects of the ending around the

weather. Many of the carpenters working on the

production were actually young Americans who

had come to Canada to avoid being drafted in

the Vietnam War. Altman dressed them in period

clothing and had them use old -fashioned tools,

so they are often appearing in the background

of scenes doing real construction of the town.

Star Warren Beatty was known for wanting numerous

takes and maintaining tight control over the

details, Allman preferred loose and more open

style. Their working methods frequently collided,

creating tension throughout the production. Years

later, people involved with the film still talk

about the creative friction between them, although

many believe the clash ultimately benefited the

finished movie. Cinematographer Vilmo Sigman

created the movie's distinctive misty, washed

-out look. By using unconventional photographic

techniques, including pre -flashing the film's

stock, studio executives initially hated what

they were seeing and reportedly wanted him replaced.

Altman threatened to leave the production. if

he was fired most major critics admired the film

but audiences were confused by it traditional

western fans expected gunfights clear heroes

and straightforward stories instead they got

this low atmospheric film filled with overlapping

dialogue muddy streets melancholy music and a

protagonist who spends most of the climax trying

to avoid a fight The movie was not a major blockbuster

because of this, but it was profitable, produced

roughly around $3 million, and earned around

$8 million in North America during its initial

run. It did receive an Oscar nomination for Julie

Christie for Best Actress. Even notable directors

have differing opinions about the film. Tarantino,

who did say he eventually did come to like it,

has been pretty vocal on how he feels it is the

worst sound mix of all time while stanley kubrick

reportedly admired it greatly so there you go

but what do kevin and i think back to us to discuss

all right thanks for that dan so now that you

have the facts we can go ahead and share our

opinions as we both had a chance now to watch

for the first time mccabe and mrs miller like

dan said this is from 1971 directed by robert

altman and uh starring warren baity which i believe

i've seen warren baity in like two other films

like dick tracy and reds red was he in something

called red yeah yes something along those lines

i don't know maybe i've seen more than i just

am not recalling what those films are but uh

what was your first impression on mccabe and

mrs miller i'm interested because it feels like

so far throughout this whole thing we have had

differences whereas we were both positive but

one of us was more positive or we were both negative

and one of us was both negative we haven't had

one yet where one was positive and one was negative

i'm interested to see where this one goes or

if we both like it we both dislike it so i'm

very intrigued to hear your thoughts on mccabe

and mrs miller yeah and it's i think if there's

one it might be this one because i know it is

known to be pretty polarizing for a lot of reasons

even you know doing the justifacts like i mentioned

like there are a lot of directors and film buffs

that love it. There's others that have issues

with it and are on the other side. Even when

it was coming out, there are critics kind of

all over the place with it. And for some reason,

through this retrospective, I've been making

a lot of references to wrestling and I was trying

to think, could I make one here? And I think

if there is one, like this. I mentioned how like

the spaghetti Westerns was like the, you know,

the attitude era or what have you. And if there,

this would fit into any type of like era, it

would, would be with this being like the, you

know, this is the early seventies. This is, I

think maybe as of right now, the only seventies

Western that we're doing. And, and if there's

like one era and wrestling and that reminds me

of it's, you know, it's past in the sense of

Westerns are past their prime. They are kind

of trying to reestablish themselves in a different

light. And it reminds me a bit of when you passed

the Attitude Era and you had things like Ring

of Honor, because ECW was gone and all those

other things were gone. But you had the plucky

Ring of Honor that was very much doing things

on the cheap in some ways. using VHS and DVD

to build up its stock. It's a lot of the people

who were wrestling were also the people making

the rings, but also had a huge amount of people

that were immensely talented and would go on

and be major stars in a lot of ways. I mean,

Warren Beatty at this point was pretty well established

because of different movies like Bonnie and Clyde

and whatnot, but still, just in the sense of

it has that... rough around the edges type of

execution. This is a movie that is almost a rejection

of the huge studio types of Westerns that we

saw. It's crazy that this movie was made two

years after something like true grit, the original

true grit that we talked about, because if you

were to watch them back to back and like, Hey,

how long ago or how different in time do these

movies take place? And when they were made, you'd

think they were like 10 years, 20 years apart,

but really just two. And so I, It took me a bit

with it to get in the mood of it because it is

so very different. I mentioned in Just the Facts

that it's notorious because people have complained

about the soundtrack and the sound mix and it's

hard to hear and understand. It's one of those

things where it's messy. That is the type of

thing. uh like the folk music like lumineers

and things like that where they're often like

away from the mic and like it's almost it's imperfections

is where it often stands out which i think for

a lot of people would not work uh and it's the

plotting is very slow meticulous but i i did

love the use of music that like it uses actual

you know a folk song heavily within it it's like

it's got like it feels very 70s like even the

people look like that's just your 70s haircut

like you know you're not you're not trying to

look like you're from that time period uh but

i don't know like i really i really kind of got

absorbed by i think it looks beautiful i could

see some people hating the way it looks because

it is looks a little bit like like i said it

looks rough like almost like the lens wasn't

fully developed all the way which was part of

like the way it was developed but there are so

many great shots to it and i know we were doing

a another group of movies later on that are like

revisionist westerns and this certainly would

fall in that line but i ended up by the end of

it like i was kind of waiting it i appreciated

it more and more after i watched it in the sense

of like going back And thinking about the overall

experience and like just being part of this world,

enjoying it and seeing this kind of town come

come alive. It felt very realistic in that way.

And almost like the antithesis to something like

Spaghetti Westerns, which, again, were kind of

grimy and dirty, but also. a bit more violent

a bit more i would say even over the top this

was like the opposite everything was very low

-key in a lot of ways and felt a bit more on

the realistic side so that really worked for

me in a lot of ways but i'm curious if it worked

for you so i would for me i would probably make

a different wrestling analogy and i would probably

go back in time to like you know we all grew

up with like the the hulk hogan macho man rick

flair era and like into the attitude era with

you know larger than life personalities like

the rock and stone cold and the undertaker and

all that type of stuff but i'm thinking if you

go back to like a time where it was like the

ganye's and the sam martino's and that style

that era of wrestling which i feel like if anybody

from now went back to try to watch classic wrestling

from like the 50s and 60s they would find it

unwatchable and and uh very hard to sit through

and i feel like that was my experience with this

film i so i guess my thought process i think

a lot of what you said is accurate i think the

the music is definitely very prominent i think

what is it leonard cohen uh i believe is heavily

featured there and i think you do get a realistic

feel with how it's done i think it feels lived

in it feels i guess in a way authentic i think

in other ways you could say maybe not because

like you said there's definitely some 70s stuff

here even though it's trying to yeah a time before

that but like i guess authentic in a different

way like authentic as far as like it doesn't

feel overly produced it doesn't feel nothing's

heightened necessarily. Nothing's like made grand

in like a superficial way or things like that.

So in those respects, it feels authentic and

it feels real and lived in and all of that. I

definitely think the way that it's filmed with

like the coloring and the exposure or whatever,

I'm not super learned and knowledgeable when

it comes to that type of stuff. But the way that

that is, I think either is going to work for

you or not work for you. yeah um i don't know

if it necessarily didn't work for me i i i think

it was fine i didn't feel like hey i would love

to have like just a hint of like a vibrancy of

a color of some sort here and there where it

definitely felt like washed out to me in a way

but to me it it was as if you were watching something

that was not shaky cam or anything like that

but i picture like how things would have looked

through like when you are watching home video

from somebody that took home video in the 1970s

like or in the night early 1980s like it has

that type of look right like like when you're

looking through somebody that doesn't have like

super high -tech professional camera equipment

and they're like to me this is like akin to like

watching my grandparents taking a home video

like that type of color coming through and that

type of like experience so i didn't necessarily

find that As something that turned me off or

anything like that. I think for me, it goes into

something that we've discussed before in previous

films that we've reviewed over the years. And

it's not always for me. Just because it's not

super like dialogue heavy or plotted out and

story driven and. you know strong narratives

doesn't necessarily mean i'm gonna dislike it

like there are some aspects that those things

can work for me but in general i'm not a big

fan of like most terrence malick films i shouldn't

say most i've only seen a few and i just need

to give others a chance because i was so turned

off by the few that i saw um but that kind of

thing where it's i feel like somebody had set

up a traffic you know how you can like go online

and you can watch like a traffic cam or you can

watch like a like for us like during hurricane

season You can literally log into these cameras

that are taking live footage of the beach and

the different areas where tide could come in

or waves could come in and whatnot. You can just

watch that during hurricanes and see what havoc

it's doing to those areas. To me, it's like a

traffic camera was pointed on a frontier town

and we were just observing people existing. that

came into view of that camera with no like compelling

character development story motivations feeling

like i don't feel like i ever got invested in

anything um i will say that i did enjoy the second

half more than the first half like i felt like

the second half we started to get somewhere the

first half i was like not sure if i was going

to be able to make it Um, but then like, as I

was feeling that, like the second half kind of

kicked in and it did enough to keep me there

to like watch it all. But there was definitely

moments where I was considering in my mind when

the last film I had watched that was less enjoyable

than this for me. Like, I think I would rather

rewatch Django than ever watch this film again.

And I know that's like, Coming down a little

bit. I was thinking Django Unchained. I'm like

you like Django Unchained. No no no. The Django

that we just watched. I keep forgetting we watched.

Yeah that makes more sense. I would definitely

rather watch Django Unchained. But I think I

would rather. You know watch the Django we just

watched. For this western retrospective again.

And I wasn't a big fan of that one. But that's

probably being a little bit too harsh. Like I

do. Like I said I enjoy that it feels lived in.

I enjoy that it feels like I'm. Viewing something

from another time. I was not turned off by the

music necessarily at all. I think you can tell

right from the beginning because it starts with

the music and I think it immediately lets you

know what you're about to be in for in a way.

If you don't like the music, you're done because

it's a prominent part of this music. If you don't

like the opening song and what's happening there,

you should probably turn around and go the other

direction. Like I said, I did like some of the

second half better. um there's just certain things

where i just like i said i just never felt invested

in any of the characters or did i really care

what happened to any of them like i know that's

the point in a way like maybe you're not supposed

to care but like they're all like a little mysterious

they're all a little little underdeveloped they're

all like and i think the other thing that didn't

help this for me and i didn't necessarily i don't

know if i had I'd have to go back in time to

see if I actually had a problem with the movement

that happened that. I think this was like 2002

ish or somewhere in there where people were starting

to use the phrase of mumblecore to describe like

a bunch of films that kind of came out in that

period. Yeah, this is started like in the 90s

with like the Noah Baumbach stuff. And I don't.

Yeah, it's but it's certainly got more prominent

in early 2000s. yeah and that's where i feel

like a lot more people were using that phrase

over and over again like maybe not even when

it was necessary i don't think this is quite

that but there is an intentional uh choice by

robert altman to allow overlaying lines being

talked you know like being said by multiple people

at the same time and like it is like i feel like

for me if i had not had the captions on like

this is not a movie that you could do something

else and understand what was going on necessarily,

because you're not just going to be able to like,

listen to what's being said and kind of follow.

You definitely need to be like watching and paying

attention to what's happening. Cause I feel like

otherwise a lot of the stuff that's being said

might get lost on you. Cause there is some mumbling

or some like overlaying of talking or tactics

that are being used to make it feel more real.

Right. Like to make it feel more like. If you

were walking through this town or if you were

in these rooms, like how it would actually sound

like, like, I'm wondering if that's what it sounds

like for my mom who wears hearing aids. Like

when she's in like a busy restaurant where there's

like a lot of different conversations happening.

I'm like, is this a peek into what that sounds

like for people? Because it's, it's definitely

where everything feels like you have to, like

the people we're supposed to be focused on are

talking. very low to the point where they're

matching the background conversations and things

of that nature so that was a little i don't know

not off -putting necessarily but it didn't help

me like get latched in i guess so to so to speak

um i wasn't totally thrown off by the pacing

like it is extremely slow obviously but i don't

know if the pacing really ever bothered me i

think i was fine with that part but i was left

with like yes we're watching like what's coming

in and out of this town and what's happening

But like, I want some, I don't know. Like one

scene that bothered me was that there was a,

there's a sequence where this younger, I'm going

to call him a kid. I don't know how old this

character was, but he seemed like a teenager

or whatever, like confronts another slightly

older character on like a bridge. And based on

spoiler alert, I guess, but like he shoots and

kills the guy. for relatively no reason and nothing

really led us to that nothing really happens

because of it it's just like this kid just killed

that guy for no reason and we're just going to

keep moving on and i wouldn't say killed him

for no reason i think there was i think what

they saw there was you you started the conflict

between those gunmen and mccabe and i thought

what he would assume was happening that kid was

that that guy was coming there to basically uh

stick up for mccabe or you know cause some sort

of violence because he's you know why is he showing

up he you know he's trying to be proactive like

regarding you know asking him like certain questions

like why you know you know about his boots and

socks and things like that and he's not he's

not answering him and going through and it it

is tragic i don't think there's no i think saying

no reason i don't know if i agree with that because

i think there is a reason there and i think also

beyond just like the narrative purpose a lot

of this to me is like about kind of de -romanticizing

a lot of what the previous westerns would romanticize

so yeah in previous you know a lot of other movies

that guy comes and helps save the day or what

have you and like he it's a part of the you know,

the hero's tale, but more often than not, that's

not what ends up happening. You know, it's not

the little guy who ends up taking over everything.

It's not that guy who is able to overcome, like,

the overbearing of the corporation. They end

up kind of just in the mud and thrown asunder,

and the world moves on. and to me that's a lot

about what this movie is and that as i took that

scene as an another example of that because it

kind of anything foreshadows like where we end

up where i mean it's it is certainly uh it's

tragic and i i wasn't expecting it to go that

way but i i found it effective personally yeah

i guess i didn't pick up on on what the rationale

or reasoning for that whole thing was i didn't

i maybe wasn't uh drawn in enough to like pick

up on the nuances of that if you weren't if you

weren't if he like if you were having a bad time

because that was near the end and so i understand

we were just like yeah but like he was he was

to me like i i don't know for sure if that that

guy that was there had any intention of doing

anything but it's i think he was uh i thought

he was just like the guy that had just come in

and he was like the cowboy and he came in and

had a lot of fun and then was like heading on

his way home And then I was like, yeah, I think

that's what he, that was probably the case, but

the, the, the, the gunman that was there, I think

took it. Yeah. I saw him as, I felt like it was

just like a young kid that was trying to like

be macho and being like, like it is. Yeah. That's

yeah. I think that was part of it too. Yeah.

I just felt like, um, I don't like, I get that

it's going for realism. I get the revisionist

approach. I get. all of the focus on prioritizing

mood and all of that, I just, I guess I just

needed something to like wrap my fingers around

to like, hold on to like something I cared about.

Like if, and if I don't care about the, the story

and I don't care about the characters, like it's

hard for me to. I can pick up on the mood of

it and I can pick up on that. It's painting a

picture of like a certain aspect of history or,

or painting a picture of like, Hey, this is just

what a normal town was like. We're not going

to make anything like I can appreciate that.

We're not making anything Hollywood ish. We're

not romanticizing anything like that. I don't

need, but at the same time, I just want to be

compelled by something like a character or, or

some motivation or something that's happening.

Not that it needs this grand. tension or needs

like a super huge payoff but i just like i found

myself like even you know like yes we spent a

bunch of time with warren baity but like did

i care what happened to him uh not really like

did i care what happened to julie christie's

character nah not really did i care if he sold

this place to the sears and roebuck or if he

held out for his own or like all of that stuff

i was like ah like i don't i don't know like

i do think it gets better in the second half

i think there's some stuff that happens with

there that gives you some stuff to latch on to

but for me it was just like i i just wasn't sure

what i was supposed to take away from it or and

i just didn't feel entertained i guess i don't

know i well it definitely is not a movie i think

that is interested in entertainment which made

me be or in the in the classic sense but like

i was compelled by mccabe's plate like this you

know you first meet him and like the first thing

they bring up is like how he shot a guy like

he was like this you know this this duelist or

whatever so kind of wondering where he is but

you kind of realize that's not that's not the

character at all he's he's got ambition he's

got he and i found his ambition compelling the

the attempt to try to you know make something

of himself utilize you know the town the town

to try to um bring the town along and his back

and forth with mrs miller like and her story

as well i was compelled like them trying to find

a way of getting her knowledge and his like i

don't know his resources to like actually build

something and just and i i just enjoyed being

within the world itself like it if you don't

like that you mentioned like having some issues

within the way it looked or like it not being

compelled by that element i could understand

not being invested but i really enjoyed that

part of it like i was you know i uh kind of just

washed over me and i was able to like you know

get into it it was weird at first like when it

first starts and like you mentioned like it's

hard to like the the sound sounds off like the

there's different levels to it like i literally

thought like something was wrong because i was

listening through my headphones so i'm like wait

is that so i was just making sure that there

wasn't something off but i feel like you can

like you can ultimately hear what you need to

hear there are there's conversations that occur

that are a little bit uh you know it you know

it sounds like a crowded room where you can't

really focus in the conversation you need to

focus on but when it comes when it removes that

and you're able to focus on the specific conversation

it all starts to make sense and you it's very

apparent like what's important and to me this

like this was a lot about the story was that

idea of you know the individual verse you know

the you know the corporation and that them trying

to overcome that you know That progression, like,

what does that actually look like? And the failure

to do it, like, that tragedy. Along with, like,

you know, I was somewhat invested in the relationship

between McCabe and Mrs. Miller. Like, there's

an element of tragedy there. You can tell that

he at least was rather into her, but it wasn't

clear that if she was, if, like, what was her,

you know, how did she view it? But also realizing

that she has her own demons as well. There is

a lot that goes unsaid. And these aren't great

people. They're extremely flawed in a lot of

ways. And they're not doing necessarily altruistic

types of activity. Obviously, they're running

a brothel. So I could understand the challenge

of getting invested into that. And like you mentioned,

you don't know a whole bunch more about them

than just those elements. You're just kind of

within the moment. I was within the moment of,

of it. So that was effective to me. And like,

just even just like seeing like the town kind

of be developed and be built and like it kind

of all coming together. I know there was like

a, like a bit of like, I don't want to say accomplishment

or something like that, but that that's, that's

kind of what, what did work for me there was

just watching that. Yeah. And I, and I guess,

like I said, I get some of it, like, I don't

know. I was just found like, had the whole thing

been like the second half maybe i would have

enjoyed myself better but that first half for

me was such a slog to try to get to well what

was it about the second half that seemed like

that you worked better for you i mean i feel

like the pacing picks up a little bit in the

second half not that that was like the big thing

that was not working for me in the first part

but i think it helps in the second half that

we start to get a little bit more of that there

there seems to be a little bit more like a lot

of the first halves like i felt like we weren't

really getting that far yes he's buying the brothel

and yes he's like getting you know establishing

this back and forth the relationship with mrs

miller and some of that's happening but like

i felt like we weren't really going anywhere

in the first half and the second half it seems

like stuff just started to happen a little bit

more where there was like not necessarily like

from a to b to the c or whatever but it just

felt like okay i'm i'm at least interested to

see like how this plays out between what he's

got going on and clearly like the these people

that are now after him and in a way or whatever

it seems like instead before it was like you

know some people come and want to buy it i'm

going to say no and then some people come and

want to buy it and then i say no and then they

try another tactic and i say no and i'm like

okay well like i don't know how many more times

i can like watch this uh negotiation phase happen

like he's clearly not interested but then it

seemed like it was like oh we're not taking no

for an answer and now we have a little bit of

the david and goliath thing where we have like

the local guy that's trying to do something not

necessarily local guy but the uh you know the

small guy that's trying to do something in the

corporation that's trying to take it away from

him i guess like not that that's like the end

all be all but at least i can kind of see like

okay that's where we're going now um yeah there's

a little bit more momentum there yeah yeah i

mean obviously there's some more action there

with the sequence at the towards the end where

they're kind of hunting him down and things like

that um so i i just felt like there was just

a little bit more of like okay at least i'm following

a progression at this point like versus just

watching these guys like run a brothel which

to me is like if i'm gonna watch something that's

just like mood and just like telling the story

of a town i probably am not picking the brothel

sequence Let me just see the inner workings of

how all the people that are involved in this

work. That's where all the action is, right?

Yeah, different type of action. Do you remember

which character Patrick Sheehan was? I did not

realize that Rene Aubergine, or however you say

that guy's name, Odo from Star Trek, was in this

movie. Maybe I completely missed it, but he played

a character named Patrick Sheehan, and now I

feel like I need to find a picture of Patrick

Sheehan from this movie to see how I missed.

being in this. I didn't realize he was there.

There is a couple interesting folks as well.

I think he was the one that was his first major

confidant. When he comes back to the town, he's

got the little bit longer hair. Maybe I do remember

that a little bit. He kind of ends up turning

on him. I don't know. That was who he played.

Then we do have Shelly Duvall's in this, Keith

Carradine's in this. I noticed Don Franks has

Buffalo in this. Don Franks, his stage name was

Iron Buffalo, but he is the husband of Cree Summer,

who did a lot of voice acting throughout the

80s and 90s. So I recognize that voice. There's

a few people here and there that were interested.

I did like that character that comes in. I don't

know if that was the Buffalo character. Who was

the guy that, it might have been somebody else.

Who's the guy that comes in? that kind of leads

the charge against mccabe like the big early

dude at the end that is like the main antagonist

i guess to mccabe do you remember what that character's

name was i think part coil was that part no or

is that what it thank you i don't remember yeah

yeah i probably said somewhere here um breathe

a bit since we yeah i don't I guess his character,

his actor, I can't even click on on the internet.

He was played by Jace Van Der Veen. Who apparently

hasn't done too much else. Yeah, that was basically

his most notable role. And it kind of makes sense

because I know they cast a lot of, and he used

a lot of people that were in that area. A lot

of Americans who were actually in Canada fleeing

the Vietnam War. so they weren't they wouldn't

be drafted i don't know if that's his story it

may not be but those are those mostly like the

people and like the extras and stuff but yeah

i don't um doesn't seem like he did much outside

of this this movie so i i never didn't recognize

him but i mean he was a imposing figure for sure

like i think it fit the part pretty pretty decently

as as far as like what they were looking for

there i was intrigued once he kind of made his

appearance like what is this guy here for and

you know what's going to be the the results from

him being here. He was just born in the wrong

era, but if he was born 10, 15 years earlier,

he probably would have gotten more work, but

unfortunately... Yeah, no, 100%. I totally get

that. Other things that you thought about this

one? Other stuff that you really appreciated

or haven't got a chance to talk about yet? I

do love the set design and the story that they

were building it and the use of weather as well,

like the snow and how that... That ending is,

I thought, pretty, like, it's beautiful. Like,

there is a lot of shots that I really, like,

there's one that of, like, in the early on, like,

McCabe crossing a bridge with, like, a cigarette

that looks great. So that's something I just,

I didn't just enjoy, like, looking at it. Like,

I don't, you know, I didn't watch the greatest

copy, but I wish I would, you know, would get,

like, I don't have a 4K Blu -ray player, but

it kind of makes me wonder what it looks like.

projected on a big screen but also like you know

this is uh one i didn't want to mention sorry

um we mentioned julie christie i did really love

her performance at the thing she comes on the

screen and like does take over and her relationship

with warren beady that was another thing i was

invested like i like their back and forth i liked

how like she was like putting things together

and like she's obviously very competent in what

she was doing and like how that all worked out

and everything and obviously the uh the locomotive

train car like that was something i never saw

before like that thing that like i'm like oh

it's a train but it's not on a track and like

i didn't which was actually a real thing but

i don't feel like walking would have been quicker

but i guess it's just you know hilly i guess

the the other thing that surprised me as good

as like you're talking about with the like the

visuals of the kind of the scenic landscape and

the I mean, it looks like it could be like a

puzzle or like a postcard or like a, you know,

like a framed picture kind of a, there's multiple

sequences in here where you feel like if you

had a really good copy of the film, you could

just like pause it. And it would be like a picture

that could hang somewhere. And you have that

on one hand, but then that is like juxtaposed

against the worst snow effect that I have ever

seen in my life. Towards the. i think the second

half or towards the end like the snow is so fake

and i don't know why but it really threw me off

of you know that was that was all real snow that

was all there's no way that was real snow it

was it was like that was because they're actually

like the ending of it wasn't planned half snow

but it snowed where they were so it looked so

bad it looked so bad it looked like it was 100

fake like i can't believe that that was real

it was yeah because that originally they maybe

they added some for certain scenes i felt like

they added it because there was certain times

where i was literally it took me so out of the

movie that i was watching the pattern of the

snow and it was like repeating itself over and

over again like in the same like pattern in which

it was falling and i was like i don't i don't

know maybe it was maybe they somehow enhanced

it or added i don't know like i want now i want

to dig into that yeah but no because originally

like they they didn't plan for it to snow but

it ended up like there was like a not like i

guess an out of season or like an unexpected

snowstorm so yeah they actually rewrote the ending

to incorporate it so i mean again they may have

used like parts of it like they may have used

some to enhancements or something like that i

don't know but i know originally a lot of it

in the sense of like you know especially the

more scenic shots when you're seeing like the

wilderness certainly were that was all that was

all real classic canadians maybe it looks different

because it's canadian snow that could also be

the reason i'm just i was just joking i don't

know the uh the internet's telling me different

i don't know now i gotta go searching it says

much of the snowfall is artificial well i know

it's like i know they they uh maybe there was

part of it, but I know it's not like the, the

snowfall was, uh, unexpected and they utilize

it. So maybe they just built upon it in some

way. So, yeah, I'll have to, I'll have to look

more. Um, cause it, and it's citing how often

it falls at an unnatural speed, which is kind

of what I was picking up at. Um, no, no, no,

I want to go down a rabbit hole. Um, not that

that has anything to do with the movie. It could

be wrong. The, the, the, um, it might've been

just the way that it could be just that the,

like the, the style in which they were having

like the desaturated palette or like that low

contrast or i don't know i'm probably speaking

words that aren't real but like this i think

of like washed out photography desaturated palette

low contrast soft focus like i don't know which

one of those applies but like it's kind of what

we've been talking about i wonder if that messes

with like the depth or something or makes it

feel different because that's what i was getting

like it felt like it was on top of the pictures

instead of in the pictures um and again this

has nothing to do with the overall film but it's

just something that like i spent a good amount

since i was not uh latched on to what was going

on in the in the movie i was definitely like

spending a lot of time debating the snowfall

in my head as i was watching that so look i guess

what i'm saying like it did snow unexpectedly

that was a big part of it and then they have

to because of that utilize some fake effects

as well so it was i guess we were both right

so there you go there we go interesting you know

there's something new every day but uh i definitely

was was thrown off by it and it sent and it set

my mind to wandering as i was watching uh stuff

that i was probably supposed to be paying more

attention to i mean yeah it's not it's not a

great sign if you're distracted by the snow so

it's obviously not a movie clearly movie's not

working for you if it's like i did get nominated

for best cinematography in a few different like

award circuits So, well, I mean, I think the

cinematography, I mean, maybe the snow. Yeah.

I don't think the snow bothered anybody else.

Yeah. But I think the cinematography certainly

is great. Yeah. You know, um, for, and a lot

of different sequences, but, and, uh, Julie Christie

was nominated for Academy award. Yeah. Yeah.

For, she didn't win, but she was, she was nominated.

The only Oscar nomination I received. Okay. well

that uh is interesting like i i think there's

if if you like something that is more about just

getting into an environment and just like feeling

it and like letting it kind of like you said

wash over you um if you want to see something

that just feels lived in and authentic and like

realistic from that standpoint like i think this

is something for that you would probably enjoy

You do have to like the music for sure because

otherwise it plays a heavy part. So if you're

not a fan of Leonard Cohen or that type of folk

music, which didn't bother me, but I could see

it bothering others. So that would be something

I would warn people about. But if that's kind

of like the style that you like, then I think

there's some ways that you can kind of appreciate

this and get into it. And like you said, it does

deconstruct a lot of the stuff that other films

have tried to romanticize or kind of Hollywoodize

or different things like that. so i think it

just kind of depends on what you're looking for

in film in general uh for me it didn't really

work but you know it sounded like it worked decently

for you yeah definitely i like i know like richard

linklater for example it's like he loves this

movie and i could certainly like see a lot of

his style filmmaking is very akin to this so

if you do like rich like a lot of link later's

films i think you probably would get something

out of it if you don't like his movies and you

would probably not very much enjoy this so i

think that's a good barometer of you're thinking

if you would enjoy it or not but i do it is it

is notable for to being polarizing so it's very

fitting that we end up on both ends of the spectrum

here so but now i'm intrigued on yeah what the

rest of this overlooked western section is going

to so was that was chat gbt right did they did

they say it was you you were not going to like

it okay they said i was not going to like this

one and they also said i'm not they said there's

out of the two remaining ones that there's one

that they think i'm really going to like so we'll

see if they're right or not all right um so the

two that we're going to be covering is a 1954's

johnny guitar and 1953's the naked spur i know

you said you haven't seen either of these films

do you know anything about them are you going

in with any do you know even who's in them have

you seen a poster like or are you going in like

super blind i know very little i know like john

only thing i know about johnny guitar is just

as i was looking through you're sort of looking

through picking films for this it was known for

being like some people call it a feminist western

so i don't know like for 1954 so that has me

intrigued like what does that look like i don't

know who's in it at all i don't know who directed

it i tried to uh we're gonna try to go in as

uh fresh as possible for a film that's like you

know 60 years old but yeah i'm intrigued too

with when once we get to the naked spur because

that only has a runtime of uh an hour and a half

so yeah that's like we that's like three that's

uh you know half of uh uh you know good the bad

and the ugly so there you go yeah i think django

was like the last film we saw that was uh only

an hour and a half so um there is a couple other

1970s films that we will cover so we are gonna

watch I believe we're going to watch The Outlawed

Josie Wales. Yeah, we expanded upon our original

because that's what we do. That's what we do.

We added more. And I think we have Blazing Saddles

in here, so that's technically a 70s movie too.

True, yeah. But not very many. It's definitely

one of the least represented decades when we

go through here. There's a lot more from the

50s. i feel like the 50s is well represented

60s we've had quite a few and obviously when

we're doing the remakes we got a bunch in the

2000s already so um intrigued as we kind of continue

our our trek through here any closing thoughts

or anything else you wanted to talk about before

we wrap this episode up dan no let's uh no only

thing would be that we have created a facebook

page for cinema where you know a little late

with that but uh we're trying to add more stuff

to it so if you want to we have our you know

we have the geek cast radio one but we're going

to try to do ours and share our own stuff on

it and we have other things planned uh as well

uh so yeah i think it'll be a great way for people

to interact with us and like we're gonna do some

things that kind of encourage some dialogue and

some discussion or some back and forth so i think

it should be fun to see people comment on some

of the different stuff that we have planned to

post there yeah definitely so it's just search

cinema geeks podcast and it should show up for

you perfect uh any and if you want to search

out dan and any of the stuff he does you can

search out the comic concierge you can search

me out at optimus solo on the different social

media sites that we're on and you can search

out the show cinema geeks or the cinema geek

cast for any of those information and then you

can always go to geekcastradio .com for any other

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when it comes to uh cartoons video games comic

books and things of the like so that uh does

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