Western Retrospective – High Noon Review

Hi, this is John Delancey and you are listening

to the GeekCast Radio Network. Hello and welcome

to episode 253 of the Cinema Geeks. I am one

of your Cinema Geeks Optimist Solo and joining

me as usual is the Comic Concierge. Hello, Dan.

Hello, how are you? I'm well, I'm doing good.

I'm ready, excited to talk about another of our

Western films and our Western retrospectives.

So for those getting whiplash, it's not Planet

of the Apes today. It is Western talk. So we're

going to be continuing our run through kind of

a second classic Western block that I believe

you've seen. Have you seen all four of these

or is there one that you haven't seen? Not seen

Rio Bravo. that's the one i which we'll be doing

next so i haven't seen that but i have this was

a rewatch for me and how long had it been since

you watched it the first time oh more than one

time yeah it's this is only the second time and

last time was like literally like 15 16 years

ago so interesting interesting okay and all four

of these are blind spots for me as most of this

retrospective has i think we're going to eventually

get to some here in the later blocks that i've

seen uh that i'm coming with some some ammunition

for but uh definitely not these 1940s and 50s

westerns uh blind spots all the way through so

very excited to kind of get into this discussion

on the the heels of red river and and all the

other ones we've talked about but before we get

into our thoughts and opinions of our watch and

our rewatch of this film. Dan's going to lay

the groundwork for us. So take it away with some

facts for High Noon, Dan. Anybody know what time

it is? Because this week we are continuing our

Western retrospective with a look at High Noon

from 1952, directed by Fred Zimmerman, starring

Gary Cooper, Grace Kelly. Thomas Mitchell and

Cady Gerardo. The film takes place over the entirety

of one morning and early afternoon in a small

town in New Mexico. Will Kane, played by Gary

Cooper, is the town marshal, and he's just married

Amy Fowler, played by Grace Kelly, and they're

preparing to leave town to start a peaceful new

life. Kane has retired from his job as Marshal,

and everything seems settled. He's cleaned up

the town quite well, and it's a peaceful location

compared to other similar locations in the area.

But then Kane receives devastating news. Frank

Miller, no, not the comic book writer and artist,

but a notorious killer whom Kane arrested years

earlier, has been released from prison and is

returning to the town on the new train. Hence

the name. Miller and his gang intend to kill

Kane. Although Amy desperately wants to leave

town immediately, Kane ultimately decides they

can't simply run away. He returns to the town

and begins looking for people who will help him

defend himself. This is where the film becomes

increasingly tense. Kane goes from person to

person asking for assistance but almost everyone

refuses some are frightened some resent kane

and others simply don't want to get involved

it's not their problem not their fight even people

considered friends to kane and former allies

find excuses to stay out of the fight as the

clock approaches noon kane becomes increasingly

isolated the town is gradually emptying out while

miller and his three accomplices wait for the

train at the station. Amy, meanwhile, insists

that she will leave Kane because of this. She's

a pacifist. She's a Quaker. And because of her

past history, simply does not want to be involved

in violence. But eventually she returns as well.

And as the gunfights begin, Kane is forced to

face Miller almost alone. After a tense series

of shootouts in that deserted town, Kane manages

to kill Miller and his men. Amy ultimately helps

Kane during the final confrontation despite her

background and her beliefs. The townspeople emerge

only after the danger has passed. Kane though

is disgusted with their cowardice, throws down

his martial badge into the dirt, and leaves town

with Amy as credits roll. One of the most interesting

aspects of High Noon is how its own narrative

is reflected in its own creation. That's because

during its production, writer Carl Foreman, who

was previously a member of the Communist Party,

was called before the House of the Un -American

Activities Committee. That's a name for you,

but he refused to go. As pressure on him increased,

he began to see parallels between his own situation

and that of Will Kane's predicament. Everyone

around them No, something terrible is happening,

but refuse to get involved, they're too frightened,

and don't want to stand with them. Foreman incorporated

those feelings into his screenplay. He later

said that some of the scenes within the film

were essentially drawn from his own experience

with friends, colleagues, and businessmen that

refused to be associated with him. Gary Cooper,

who by no means was a communist sympathizer,

in fact was politically conservative. Cooper

was willing to testify before the committee himself.

Despite his political beliefs, though, he did

not believe that Foreman should be removed from

the film simply because of his history. When

there was pressure to remove Foreman, Cooper

apparently, based upon his own daughter, indicated

that if you kick him out, Cooper was going to

leave as well. That's not something that John

Wayne would have done, and that's not really

a knock on John Wayne. I guess it is a little

bit, but John Wayne was one of the people who

strongly objected to High Noon and its political

implications. He regarded the film as un -American

and disliked the depiction of the townspeople

abandoning their marshal, but also didn't like

the idea of the marshal going around trying to

ask for help. He felt it made him look weak.

Despite some high -profile criticism and some

early screenings that did not go well, when it

was released in 1950, It was largely praised

by critics and won a few Academy Awards, including

Gary Cooper for Best Actor, Best Film Editing,

Best Original Song, and Best Score. It was nominated

for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Supporting

Actress for Katie Gerardo, and Best Screenplay.

Hey, look at that! And Best Cinematography, so...

At the end of the day, I guess it all worked

out. And it was a success at the box office as

well, earning over $750 ,000, which was a nice

profit for United Artists. But where do Kevin

and I stand? Are we with John Wayne? Are we with

Gary Cooper? Someplace in between? Back to us

to discuss. film it is now time to turn our attention

to our opinions on the film dan i have a couple

things i'm going to throw at you and i'll let

you kind of react to any or all or however you

want to take it but i have a couple different

thoughts that were kind of initial thoughts that

kind of went through my mind as i was trying

to kind of think of of a way to kind of sum up

um high noon as far as like a kind of a jumping

off point for here and i i think you can view

it a little bit in two ways i don't I guess the

same way, just different perspective. But to

me, the central point here revolves around either

what happens when a town or a community or a

group is not willing to stand up for what's right

and kind of take the necessary action. Or I guess

you could look at it in a little bit different

way of kind of from a specific individual situation,

which is. How does one individual handle the

fact that he's alone in his convictions or how

does he stand up when nobody around him will

support or join him? So I think that's like one

thing that I kind of went back and thought about

a little bit with this. Another thing that kind

of triggered in my head was, you know, we recently

did for the website a countdown of like our little

voting method to give us our top 100 animated.

series of all time and we've done similar countdowns

with animated movies and a variety of different

things tv series etc and a lot of times in those

discussions we have debates or conversations

revolving around something being classic being

first being influential in that respect where

it has an influence on a lot of stuff that comes

after that versus you know something that may

not may not have as much of an influence on that

stuff that comes after it but it's just very

well done executed put together etc and then

obviously like the the unicorn or the perfect

storm where it does both right where where it's

both a mastery in execution or craft but also

influential whether it's a timing standpoint

or just like changing something within its medium

or genre and i'm wondering where you feel kind

of high noon falls on that and then the kind

of the last thing again take take any of these

with whichever way you want but we obviously

started with some classic 1939 uh from the stagecoach

and we had you know some 50s films and things

of that with like the searchers the man who shot

liberty balance and then we kind of went away

from that we did our spaghetti westerns we did

remakes versus originals we did some overlooked

westerns and now we're kind of going back into

that earlier time period with classics and i'm

wondering doing it that way versus potentially

covering this like as our second or third film

in this right like it could have easily been

the second or third film we covered instead it's

like number 17 and i'm curious how that impacted

your thoughts or were you thinking about a lot

of the other 16 films that we've covered as you

were watching high noon did you see it more of

kind of a separate like out on its island or

did you see a lot of like the connections between

high noon and some of these other films we've

watched or vice versa um so kind of what whichever

way you'd like to go with that dan like what

what's your initial thought yeah yeah you turn

to page 17 if you choose uh if you choose the

one direction otherwise it's page 28 i always

would try to read ahead so i didn't pick the

wrong page and end up dead and then it would

never work out uh so i i guess i'll go with like

you know washing this and being part of the retrospective

what was i thinking of other films and certainly

ones came to mind the one that i think came to

mind the most was probably the original 310 to

yuma because both kind of center on a very simple

idea really you know 310 to yuma is like we got

to get this guy and of course both revolving

around trains you know 310 to yuma being this

sequence where you know you have to get this

guy to the train and here where we're trying

to create a posse because someone's coming from

a train and they have similar i think concepts

in the sense of or themes where you know it's

about you know doing what's right and the cost

of it and the challenge to find individuals that

are willing to do that and so i i definitely

feel like it certainly falls into that line and

i looking at this looking through these retrospectives

i think some of the bass are the ones that have

really kind of Straight line narrative of what

it's trying to accomplish. And this certainly

is that. It's very simple in what it's trying

to deliver. But I think there is some poignancy

within that simplicity. Because clearly you see

the allegory that it was designed to be. There

is no qualms about that. As mentioned within

just the facts. The idea of people being unwilling

to help others. in fear of what it might do to

them or the you know they could see what's the

injustice happening but not willing to stand

up because of whatever reason they can come up

with so i think it is effective in that manner

how it's able to exist within the western genre

at the western time very much being speaking

to to the day in which it was made Which is not

necessarily always easy to do and do effectively

and not super heavy -handed. It's not subtle,

but it's also not so direct in what it's trying

to say politically. And I think that obviously

caused some stirs with individuals who weren't

huge fans of it. But I did feel like it was in

that realm. Is it a situation where high noon

is going into this? We know it's really highly

regarded as one of the best Westerns ever. I

think that's always a hard thing to place on

anything, but I do think it's very effective

in what it's trying to do. I do think the performance

is strong. Gary Cooper, he has a presence to

him, but it's a different type of presence than

what we've seen previously compared to like a

John Wayne that's like, you know, take no prisoners.

Like he's the tough, gruff guy that's going to

do it all where there's a bit more empathy. I

feel like his character is a bit more, grounded

and realistic in that manner uh so i i found

you know this being a rewatch i had some idea

but i legitimately forgot like it's been so long

like i didn't know how exactly was it gonna end

like i had a few ideas like i think it ended

this way it didn't think it ended that way i

wasn't i wasn't fully sure exactly it's like

did they all come back at the end and like actually

you know change their mind i couldn't remember

but i found it very effective in that and i thought

it was really well done and what it was trying

to accomplish and the way it went in accomplishing

that goal and just how it's almost done in real

time. It's like 24 before 24, but without it

being overextended and going on for way too many

seasons. But I was curious what you thought.

You clearly have a lot, I feel like, based upon

those questions, perhaps some conflict in what

you thought of it or maybe you're not sure. I'm

curious. well it's it's interesting because i

did the same thing i did with this block that

i did with the last block just for you know fun

yeah i i because i keep telling this uh ai chat

like what my reactions are of the movies we've

watched and then i haven't tried to try to predict

what i'm gonna like and you know see whether

it it's successful or not and so i gave it these

four films right uh red river high noon shane

and rio bravo And it was convinced beyond a shadow

of a doubt that High Noon would be by far my

favorite. Unfortunately, it was wrong. I don't

hate High Noon. I'm not going to say that. I'm

going to get that right out of the bat. I just

think watching this with the retrospective that

we've been doing may have hurt it a little bit

for me. And I'll kind of try to tell you why,

and we can kind of go talk about a few structures

and elements of the film that worked or didn't

work for me. Because I do think you made some

good points, and I do agree with a number of

points that you made. I just have some qualms

about some other things as well. So for me, it

does come down to, is this one just so highly

regarded because of when it came out and how

it influenced? other films that came out after

it or because i'm i'm not seeing exactly what

everybody else sees uh in this film as far as

like for me it's hard because i feel like a bunch

of films came out after it that clearly maybe

have taken influence or notes from this but it's

hard when they all do it better so that's that's

kind of like my biggest qualms so uh It was interesting,

too, because we talked a lot about music in Red

River, right? And the music in this one is done

by the same individual. And the score and the

song were at least nominated for Academy Awards.

They may have won, both of them. I'm trying to

remember if they... I think the song may have

won. I don't remember if the score won as well.

But they were both nominated. Same person that

did Red River. I was gushing about the music

and the soundtrack and everything in Red River.

And I had a very opposite reaction to this one.

The song in the beginning, for me, just doesn't

work on a lot of levels. It literally tells you

the entire movie in the words of the song and

takes away any hints of mystery or anything from

tension. It literally tells you the whole plot.

The beginning, the middle and the end. Maybe

not like every single detail, but it basically

tells you everything that's going to happen.

And like, to me, that was, I know it's a minor

detail, but it, and I guess in the screenings,

they like had the song even more in the movie.

Like it's in there a couple of times, but I guess

they had it all over the place. And like when

they were previewing the film and it was getting

to the point where audiences were actually even

laughing at the song, which told them, Hey, we

need to like scale back, like how much we're

using this song. um minor detail not why i not

why i have some issues with the movie but it

did it didn't help that they're just like literally

telegraphing everything the other part with me

is kind of how this whole thing and you kind

of touched on it right like the whole structure

of this film is a countdown and it's like a real

-time countdown for most like all intents and

purposes it's almost like we're we're having

a real -time countdown from that you know they

keep showing the clock you see how far it is

from noon the the movie's titled high noon you

know the train's coming at noon like so it is

a countdown to that time which can naturally

provide a lot of tension and a lot of suspense

and escalating danger and things of that nature

i think we get that with the original 310 to

yuma i think we get that with some of the other

films that we've seen But for me, it didn't provide

any tension in this film because it was very

telegraphed, everything that was going to happen.

You know Miller is coming. You know Kane is going

to stay. That's never a question. They say it

in the song before the movie starts. You quickly

get the feeling that nobody's going to help him.

It feels like they try to go to that note. 17

times. And I get that there's different reasons

why they won't help him. And it's supposed to

be like building that, like he keeps striking

out with everybody. But for me, it just became

repetitious. Like I know nobody's going to help

this guy. Like that's what, this is what the

movie is. I know there's going to be a gunfight

at noon. I know it's going to be him against

this, this group. Right. Like, so I didn't feel

the tension in that. Like 310 to Yuma for me,

the deadline in that film actually created new

complications, changed character decisions, and

and had an impact on how much you were bought

in and how much you were like felt kind of into

the movie and bought into all of that magnificent

seven for example the threat continually evolves

because we're having a relationship build between

the villagers and the gunfighters and everything

that's happening there's you know the the man

with no name trilogy finds a way to build that

tension even though you know it's ending with

a showdown of some sort and depending on which

film we're specifically talking about and here

once you have the townspeople start refusing

him it's just like okay well how are we going

to go to the next person who's also going to

tell him no so is the movie building suspense

or is it just stretching out an inevitable conclusion

for me and that was one of my major problems

with the film is i just didn't ever feel any

of the suspense tension or like nervousness about

anything that was happening yeah but i guess

you could say like like why would you ever have

tension for a james bond movie when you know

he's gonna win in the end so i guess like you're

it's It's kind of discounting a movie for its

concept before it even like it's, you know, I,

and I think, but we've seen, we've seen other

Westerns that have done that and, and I would

say they have been able to do the tension. Yeah.

I think this one was effective and I do think

it is able to, cause this is a movie about morality

and a movie about, you know, what it means and

like, what does your legacy mean? You know, what

does it actually say? But there's no, but there's

no arc in that. We know what he's going to do

from go. It says it in the song. It says it in

the opening song. The line says, I do not know

what fate awaits me. I only know I must be brave,

for I must face a man who hates me or lie a coward

in my grave. We know what he's going to do. There's

no arc in that. We know he's going to stand there.

We know he's going to turn around and go back

to the town. We know he's going to fight the

guy. It's not his arc. It's everyone around him.

It's his wife's arc. Nobody else has an arc.

His wife is the only one that has an arc in this

film. She does, and so does his deputy as well.

and his struggles and what he's facing. And I

think it's people don't, they say no from go.

Some of them do. It's not like there's one guy

that says yes at first and then says no. But

why did they say no? Because they're all cowards.

It's, it's, it's the opening song. Is it just

that though? I mean, each one has a different

reason. Like they're, they're trying to pose

it like 16 different ways for you, but I didn't

find any arc in anybody, but, but Grace Kelly's

character. And I guess I would give you the deputy.

yeah again but like i think you're like what

is this movie trying to do it's trying to say

like what i talked about like will one man stand

up when nobody else supports him or if you look

at it from the other perspective what happens

to a town when they're not willing to stand up

for what's right like it's one of the two depending

on what your viewpoint or a combination of there

can be both at the same time they're not mutually

exclusive i think it's trying to be a critique

of the way in which individuals are for granted

the structure that's around them and like what,

what, what it's awarded them. And I think it's

very effective in that. I think it's, it's not,

I don't think it's a movie that's necessarily

about a shootout or a movie about like, you know,

this man's going to die. It's more of a movie

about how people take for granted. what individuals

who sacrificed you know have gritten them and

like how they're they're the selfish nature of

humanity which at this time in 1952 i think it

was maybe i've become numb to that man i live

in i live in 2026 i know i'm not convinced like

today that that's that's the normal reality uh

but i think it you know the you know the 50s

and the the it was very much Not that. Think

of a lot of the Westerns we've seen. You don't

see a lot of movies that are very critical of

the individuals within the town. They're always

the victim of anything. You have the bad guys

and things like that. Well, not in Magnificent

Seven. That's their cowards at the beginning.

They're painted in the same respect. They're

not willing to stand up against the mob. They're

looking for somebody else to solve their problem.

But they have arcs. They change. Throughout the

film. And become able to be brave. I get it may

be saying that. I just didn't find it as interesting.

Because it's like. Tell me something I don't

know. I think it was trying to tell people. Something

in the 1952 that they didn't know. I can't put

myself into that. That mindset I guess. I understand

if you're. Yeah. I guess I don't agree. I think

you're looking for something. This movie is not

giving you. which seems to be the case in the

sense of... I was looking for an arc for Kane's

character or for not necessarily everybody in

the town, but for a few individuals or something,

and I just felt like I didn't get it. You get

kind of a weird arc with his wife, which we can

get into in a little bit, that I still think

is somewhat problematic, but at least you can

see that there is an arc there. There is a difference

between her at the beginning of the film and

her at the end of the film. I don't see a difference.

in Kane's character at the beginning of the film

and at the end of the film. Outside of the fact

that in the beginning of the film, he does have

more support from the town towards the end of

the film before the actual final gunfight. He

does not have that support. But that's more about

the town and less about him. He's still the same

person that's standing up for justice, being

the marshal, being the one who's affecting this

town. putting it in a good spot he's that he's

that person in the beginning he's that person

at the end i don't think he's that person at

the end i think his last action of throwing the

the um the the star or whatever the badge on

the ground was retiring in the beginning and

leaving he was retiring in the beginning because

he was done with it there's a difference between

retiring and and giving up or I don't think he

was giving up. I think he said, look, I did one

more thing for you, and I'm leaving just like

I did in the beginning. I didn't take it that

way. In that way. I took it in his action, the

way he dropped it. I took that as him giving

up on the town. In a way. Him indicating that.

He's, at that moment, a broken man. He's walking

away, but he's... he's forever uh shamed or like

disgusted by the town that he helped build well

i get that i think i think like his arc i think

you do see an arc there who he is at the beginning

this man of like you know proud marshall who's

respected and feels like he is you know he's

built something that matters like that's a big

thing about like then they they they harpen upon

that a lot about like right how this town is

different how this is an example of individuals

who were able to get out all the riffraff and

all that stuff and all the work he put in. At

the end, there's no pomp and circumstance. He

does a deed, throws it on the ground, he leaves

in disgrace. Not disgrace, but he leaves disgusted.

You see it when he's writing his will, the frustration

he has. you know he it's coming to terms with

his own legacy and what that means it's not direct

you don't see him have a large silky about which

i'm glad i wasn't yeah yeah um but i i think

you know that that those final moments it like

who he is at the end is is very different than

who he begins with he's he's not you know he

the futile nature of heroes and i think is is

seen within that moment because he's you know

everything he kind of thought he did was really

something that you know the people he counted

on weren't there so i i don't necessarily think

that he doesn't grow at all it's not like i grant

you it's a pretty sharp decline it's like it's

a shade one shade of gray to another shade of

gray like i don't know i would i would say it's

a completely different person because at one

point like he he is your typical hero and the

other one he is jaded cynical he didn't have

that type of cynicism beforehand and just with

that one action that this town is not what i

believed it to be i'm leaving you i'm throwing

this on the ground this this you know the badge

that represented everything he was up to that

point and now it means nothing i i think that

that's a pretty stark action for that character

compared to where we get to at the beginning.

I guess I just, I read it a little bit differently.

Like I view it more as like a, I don't know,

a championship boxer who is like the hero and

all this other stuff. And then there's like this

one few that was never quite settled. And even

though he's retiring, then the other guy comes

up and is like, Hey, I want one more fight. And

he's like, I don't really don't want to do this,

but I'm gonna do it. And then he fights the guy

he's exhausted afterwards. And it's like, didn't

really get him anything that he wanted to. And

he's like, you know, it's over i settled the

feud i'm out of here just like i was in the beginning

but now that's done and i don't even know if

it was worth it like i don't like i don't know

like it i just had a different reading of i can

see your i can see what you're saying like i

get like somebody reading it that way i i personally

didn't read it 100 that way i can see where you're

coming from though i yeah and if you think go

ahead if you if you don't get that reaction then

i could see it that it yeah not like jerry cooper

i think he's good like i think he i think he

does uh show us i don't i wouldn't say it's completely

different than at least one of the other like

he's a lot like jimmy stewart and who shot liberty

valence like it's it's very similar in the fact

that it's our protagonist but it's a real person

who's sweating and worried and desperate like

it's it's not the same character i'm not trying

to say that they're the same character i'm saying

a bit bit more i think I don't know if confidence

is the right word, but I don't know. Yeah, but

I'm saying as far as painting him as he's not

the John Wayne swag and danger type stuff. He

is more of a person that an everyday person could

relate to. You and I could relate to this guy,

right? I don't know if we could see ourselves

being the guy, but we can see that as a real

human, whereas John Wayne is this bigger than...

It's a fictional persona that it's probably harder

to believe actually existed. Whereas I feel like

this character is someone like you, you a hundred

percent buy that this is a real person could

have really lived in this time period, could

have really done all this stuff. And I think

Jimmy Stewart character in Liberty Valance is

similar, right? Like it's a, it's another person

that you can kind of see. And like, they're not

immune to fear. They're not immune to sweating

the, the tension that they're supposedly going

through and stuff and stuff like that. So I do

like that both of those characters kind of. a

little bit upend the like typical quote -unquote

western hero that that you often see in these

types of films so i do appreciate that i don't

know if i would i'm not as familiar with all

the films that came out this year like is it

academy award worthy winning performance i don't

know i don't have anything to compare it from

i mean it's it's yeah it's of that i i don't

know what he was up against you know i would

say it's I mean, at that point, I think he was

such a... I wouldn't say it's a career award

because he's won before that, but he was kind

of on a downward... Not downward spiral, but

this certainly kicked his career back into gear

again. I don't know if that happened. It's very

of -the -time performance, I would say. It's

not... It's kind of... Let's go also to his...

to the grace kelly a little bit since we kind

of mentioned it before we get into off to another

point but we do talk about how you know there

is some change from her in the beginning to the

end we do and we do have some experience with

grace kelly we've seen her you know throughout

the um hitchcock slash carrie grant um retrospectives

and some of the films that we've seen at different

times in her career and obviously in the beginning

of this film you know she is the the the The

newlywed, they make a lot of points about her

Quaker upbringing or philosophy in life and kind

of how she is very nonviolent and things of that

nature. Obviously, they're going to leave and

go off to their own life. That's what she wants.

She really does not want him to go back to the

town for multiple reasons that you could read

into, whether it's fear of what could happen

to him or whether it's just like, I want you

to put me first. and and stop worrying about

these people that maybe she already sees don't

necessarily um i don't know if she can already

see that they don't care as much or whatever

but she wants to be number one right like that

makes sense he just married me like well let's

at least go go have at least attempt to have

a life so that's kind of what we get at the beginning

and then obviously it's they do do some interesting

dynamics between her and the other female character

which is um katie helen ramirez so it's interesting

right because grace kelly's character is the

non -violent one rejecting violence doesn't want

to be there and you have the helen character

who knows everybody in the town seems to be comfortable

around them probably is a little bit more prone

to embrace violence i don't know you could we

don't have 100 of things that can say that but

you kind of get that right um and then they kind

of flip it up as to which one actually leaves

and which one sticks around so i do think there's

some interesting things going on there and then

you know spoiler alert for this movie that's

super old but um you know obviously grace kelly's

character plays a big part in the final showdown

um and has some change in her willingness to

accept violence or be moved to violence and and

things of that nature so i was curious like what

your take is number one just within this film

with those two characters and kind of how they

play the two dynamics um against each other or

or in their relationship to um especially our

our main protagonist here and then also on a

side note like your view of grace kelly in this

film compared to like some of the other films

that we've seen her in uh yeah it was interesting

because we we get to learn like She wasn't raised

a Quaker. She became one later in life after

her family was basically murdered and killed.

And you could understand where her direction

towards nonviolence comes from and why she wants

to get out of that town and doesn't want to see

her now husband deal with the same fate that

her previous family did. So I thought it was

intriguing how it was able to convey that information

throughout we didn't know everything up front

you obviously have a limited amount of time to

like provide this information right and that

which is really hard thing to do and make in

in a way that doesn't feel like you're just throwing

in a lot of exposition so i thought yeah especially

when you're doing this like real time where we're

only what are we taking like just a couple hours

of this day yeah i don't remember what the clock

says at the beginning of the film when they first

show it but it's not a long time yeah i mean

first we'll get married that early on a sunday

morning that seems like a weird choice but whatever

uh so it's like that's gotta be tough uh but

but yeah i i thought she was good you know this

is like before grace kelly becomes great grace

kelly and also going through this i didn't realize

how little films she was in she wasn't really

even in that many movies um but i thought she

was good i think she had the role and i i didn't

take her actions at the end as her accepting

violence it was i saw it more of an Or a tragic

piece in the sense of she was forced into that

because she had no choice. Either she acted or

her husband died. So it's like the principles

versus reality, I guess, in a way. She's faced

with reality. Yeah. Or how the failures of society

made her go against what she believed because

no one else would do what they needed to do.

So she was forced to do something. It's going

to be a random comparison, but it's like Batman

is very anti -gun. And there's a story within,

I think, Batman Beyond where he's older. He's

not able to do what he needs to do. And out of

desperation during one mission, he ends up using

a gun, which is against everything he believes

in. So to me, it was something like that. Similar

situation where she... had to go against her

morals simply for an actor's survival. But apparently

she's really good at it because she was able

to get out of that hostage situation pretty effectively.

So yeah, I mean, it's tough. The dynamic between

her and Helen was interesting. Helen is a character

I feel like we could get an entire movie on because

there's clearly a lot going on there. She's a

self -made woman. She's part of the prequel.

yeah uh you know that which is 11 o 'clock which

is weird it's not as it's uh and then so it's

low noon seven o 'clock low um but yeah i thought

grace kelly's was like it's not like you said

like she's it's not like she gets a huge amount

to do like i mean she's there she's she's often

reacting and she's meant to be that you know

it's not an easy role because she's meant to

be the person to try to you know tell him not

to do it like that you know the nagging wife

in a way uh which is not the most glamorous part

in the world but you could certainly see the

star quality that is there early that's going

to make her into like a hollywood icon but i

would also say like i katie girardo was not an

actress like i feel like i've seen it before

i'm not sure but i thought she was like like

i said i was really intrigued by her performance

and like the And their random encounter was interesting

as well. But what was your take on Grace Kelly's

performance? There's a lot of people in this

movie that were coming around again that were

in previous movies during retrospectives. Yeah,

absolutely. I guess once you start covering this

many Westerns, you start to come across with

some of the main people of them. But no, I mean,

I'm a huge Grace Kelly fan. I think it was criminal

that she didn't do more films. you know i would

love to see her do some more things but i think

you can definitely see the seeds of what she

would become within this film i think she makes

the best out of what she has and what she's given

here i think like what you talked about it's

a hard it's a hard task because not only is the

role what like what you talked about right like

the the nagging not nagging but like the the

the wife that's trying to do what you know she

thinks she should do for her new husband and

the family or whatever like that there's not

a ton for her to do and also the way that they

have to do it within this time constraint doesn't

leave us with a huge exploration of like everything

about her and like they're not able to like really

draw out like what pushes her to do what she

does at the end necessarily but i don't think

that's i think that's just kind of like the constraints

of what they were doing with the film which is

nobody's fault and i think they did a decent

job of executing that and kind of navigating

that and i think grace kelly did a good job helping

with that um so like i enjoyed both of the main

female characters and actresses in this film

and i thought they added some elements that were

needed and i didn't really have any issues with

her her violent action at the end i perhaps they

could have made it so she didn't shoot him right

in the back but i don't know like i don't know

how she would have done that like i don't know

what else i don't have an alternative i'm coming

with a problem with no solution but like i i

can see how some people would be like well you

know we didn't have enough time to like truly

earn her movement towards that from being like

this super pacifist um character but i didn't

see that as quite a as much of an issue as i

had with some of the other parts of the film

so i i enjoyed that she was in here and i would

i too i was interested in um helen ramirez's

character and like i would have loved to see

like more about what that background was i know

this isn't the film to do that based on the constraints

of what they're doing though what do you think

go ahead sorry uh like not someone that we've

but played a big role we mentioned them a little

bit like bridges as the you know his deputy because

i think if anyone he's another you know probably

the he gets the second most amount of screen

time uh with everything we see i was curious

what you and i kept thinking he was kirk douglas

because he kind of looks like him a little bit

but it's i was like that's not kirk douglas but

i was like oh that's the guy from uh oh i knew

him from like hot shots i think yeah that's like

that's guy from hot shots which is not an airplane

but anyways that's not this movie what did you

think of lloyd bridges i mean i think he did

a fine job as far as acting in the film I was

hoping for a little bit more out of the dynamic

between those two characters. I know they do

have some interactions and some, you know, some,

he probably has the second most or the third

most arc in the film as far as like what's going

on. And we do get an interesting thing where

he's definitely like the quote unquote, like

young buck that's trying to make a case for,

you know, that he should be the one that's given

the chance to, to be the Marshall. So there's

a little bit of a back and forth between him.

and gary cooper's character which has some interesting

aspects to it i i don't know i didn't love the

character like to me it i still knew that you

know he's not gonna have his back in the end

just like nobody's gonna have his back like that's

again that's telegraphed from the beginning so

it's kind of like i couldn't get in i couldn't

go along for the ride with any of these like

back and forth with whether it's the the one

individual that was seemingly on his side to

begin with and that was waiting for you know

the time and you know go gather your people and

i got your back and then there's the deputy and

then there's the house that he visits where the

guy pretends not to be home like i couldn't get

invested in any of these like back and forth

because it's already told to me that none of

them are going to have his back so it's like

well i know where this is going but it just took

took me out of it a little bit i guess unfortunately

Yeah, I think with him, too, like, that relationship,

it certainly hints that there's a lot more there,

because, like, why isn't he recommending him?

Like, what exactly is it about that character

that, you know, perhaps the drinking, because

we see that part of his character, you know,

and then you think there's perhaps an issue with

the relationship, because I guess, you know,

him and Helen had their own history, and there

is, I think, in a sense of like economic storytelling

it's actually quite good and giving us a lot

of information without yeah having to say it

directly like when uh gary cooper or will cain's

like going up the stairs and the uh although

like uh the the guy in the hotel is like you

can you know you find your way okay or whatever

forget forget what exactly the wording was but

basically like saying that you exactly know where

you're going because you've been here before

in front of his now wife so it um that guy like

just started a lot of trouble he seemed to enjoy

it but um but yeah, I, I do think there's, as

I said, like going into this part of me, I remember

like, I also, that somebody came back or something

like that at the end. So I wasn't sure, but,

um, I don't know. Like there's part of that relationship

that I find intriguing. Just understanding like

what, what is not. what don't we know because

clearly there's right some some issues there

but i think you get that with a few of the characters

for sure um where it's like i i'd love to know

a little bit more like i guess that's part of

the um the attraction to some attraction is probably

the bad word but some of the like allure to some

of this is that there is a little bit of mystery

between like what is the backstory between this

person and that person or gary cooper and this

townsperson or that deputy or the um you know

there's another what a judge or something that

in the beginning a judge or a yeah it's not something

like judge yeah judge who leaves because he's

like you know he gives up right yeah and i think

it you know there's and that's also part of it

too like it you know It's interesting, part of

it's this thing about how they'll arrest him

and then they'll get free, and we don't really

know why he got pardoned and whatnot. So I think

it's certainly speaking to the corruption of

the government on that end, which also makes

a lot of sense considering what was happening

at the time and what the screenwriter was bringing

his own experience into it. So there's a lot

of that within it too. um yeah another person

that we see too is which i didn't realize this

was uh the film debut of lee van cleef who we

saw yeah twice uh when he first appeared did

you feel like you were like when they first showed

his face like it was like a reveal as if you

were supposed to know who he was like i don't

know it seemed like they show him and it's like

look at look look look look who it is i'm like

i don't know who that is it's interesting because

it's it's one of those that i don't know i just

always with tv shows or movies that put the actors

on first like i'm i'm always reading all of the

cast as it's being put on the screen beforehand

so i see that lee van cleef's name is on there

um you know i see gary cooper's name i see uh

grace kelly and then i see lee van cleef and

and so it's like oh three three people i know

that are like big names right like they're they're

important people in this time period or in this

genre so i i see him and i was expecting him

to play a bigger role i did not realize it was

his you know debut or anything like that so like

he did look younger than i remembered him but

i was like yeah this is all van cleef gets to

do here looks like it looks different without

the mustache for sure yes absolutely but it was

fun to see him kind of in that than that early

role for sure i was just like i guess it was

one of those where i was excited to see his name

and then somewhat i wouldn't say let down but

it was like oh i guess we don't get a whole lot

of him as far as what this besides like the the

classic shot to them another movie did this too

i think it was 310 to humor or whatever where

they keep going to the guys that are waiting

uh yeah you're whatever like sitting on the the

train station or sitting on the thing and it's

like what else are they going to do what was

the other was was which movie was it where like

um what's the time in the west that opens up

on the scene with them waiting oh that's the

one with the fly and everything that was driving

me bananas yep oh so it was kind of like that

it reminded me of that where it's just like well

we're just gonna keep checking in with these

guys every once in a while yeah um just gonna

have to sit there and wait that's yeah that's

the way of life back then i was curious dan on

the other thing that i really kind of had an

issue with that we haven't really talked too

much about yet is the town i know we've kind

of talked about it a little bit but to get into

it a little bit deeper right like i can see like

this is a very important part of the film like

it's a crux to everything from a thematic standpoint

that we're dealing with right whether it's you

know the town not standing up for itself whether

it's a person dealing with the fact that you

know what's it like when nobody has his back

or nobody's willing to stand up for him which

obviously has some political commentary on what's

going on you know at this time period and whatnot

which we can touch on in a minute but you know

everyone has a reason not to help kane right

like they're afraid they have businesses they

have families they don't want trouble they're

cowards what there's there's a plethora of things

we go through as we go to each person and each

person comes up with an excuse not to support

him not to help him not to have his back and

it does you know point that question you know

like what happens to a society when when everyone

decides someone else should deal with the threat

right like the And we've seen it a lot of different

times, right? Like throughout history where a

society or a group of people aren't willing to

stand up and what happens when they're always

hoping that somebody else should take the reins

on that. You know, we saw it with Nazi Germany.

We see it, you know, in the political landscape

of a lot of countries, et cetera. So it's a powerful

concept. One thing that I'm really struggling

with, though, is what actually happens to Hadleyville?

And the problem I'm having in my head that I'm

wrestling with. is nothing. They abandon Kane.

Kane saves them anyway. He kills Miller. He leaves.

There's no reckoning for this town of cowards.

In Magnificent Seven, the villagers initially

do want someone else to solve their problem,

but then the film makes them earn their transformation.

The man who shot Liberty Valance, the town's

development and civilization is... central part

to the story and i love the idea of all of the

stuff because of how much weight this carries

throughout history but i don't know if the movie

gives us like there's no consequence of that

idea in this film in a way that would have been

to me and i know that's maybe some part of the

point and that's why he leaves because the town's

hopeless and he's giving up on him but like Not

that everybody needs like a comeuppance or repercussions

or consequences, but they're cowards. Somebody

else does come in and solve the threat and they're

all fine. Like there's no lesson for the town.

There's no moral enlightenment. There's no, not

punishment, but there's, it's like the town gets

away scot -free and I'm having a problem like

reconciling that in my head. I don't know if

it gets away scot -free. I think it gets away

living in shame. Do they care? I don't know.

Do they care once he's dead and Kane leaves?

Is it just like, oh, back to business as usual.

Glad that's over. I don't know. And I think it's

not giving you that answer, which is, I think,

okay. I think it's not necessarily about giving

you a direct... town come up and it's like now

you have to learn your lesson or anything like

that i think it's yeah i wouldn't expect something

like just like stark with that but something's

like something subtle something that like shows

that they understand what happened or that they

are living in shame i didn't get that like we

didn't get anything that shows that they're shameful

or that they feel bad or that they i think in

in those final moments when again Going back

to a scene where I guess I talked about a lot,

when he does give up on them and drive away,

I think you do see them reconciling with, it's

not super, it doesn't say within the moment a

great deal, but I think you do see them coming

into understanding of their failures and what

they didn't accomplish, what they didn't do.

We now think about, It's a town without a sheriff,

a town without a judge, a town without whatever

the business was that What's -Her -Name was doing

as well. A lot of the core of what that town

is is no longer there because of their failures.

So what does that leave them? What are they now?

Maybe the new marshal comes and does it and fixes

and he's just as good. We don't know that. also

it's the west news travels fast so that marshall

will probably know that maybe this isn't a place

you can trust you know maybe that reputation

of who they are and what they stand for is forever

tainted and i think that is what it's getting

towards it's like this you know the the disgust

of being unwilling to do what's right and making

you sit within that and reflect upon it and then

then like okay what comes next and putting that

on the audience rather than giving you a way

out so that that's the way i took it personally

makes sense what did you think just because we

haven't touched on it like specifically or explicitly

i guess obviously this is happening during a

time where people are um getting blacklisted

and and things of that nature and obviously that's

happening specifically to you know foreman uh

who is involved with the story and whatnot and

you can see like an interpretation or an influence

i guess you could say on on the picture and what

we're getting like what did you read into that

did you did you know that going in did you pick

up on that beforehand or did you just see that

after the fact and kind of like what's your take

on how the film balances that kind of analogy

or allegory to like what was really happening

in america at the time It's a good question.

When I first watched it, I don't think I was

aware of it. I knew the premise of it and whatnot,

but I didn't know the history behind it, the

history of the making of it and things like that.

Going into this the second time, I was more aware

of it. And I do think, like I mentioned, it's

clearly there. It's not trying to hide it in

what it's trying to do. Because of that, it got

a lot of pushback from individuals who weren't

very keen on its approach. So if you go in this,

you know, what you bring into this, I think,

can impact your overall enjoyment of it for sure.

Not necessarily. Obviously, your issues are more

so. It's not related to that, but it's certainly

like if you're John Wayne or something like that,

it's a different story. So I think it was a good.

allegory at the time and considering how successful

it was like universally uh like i'd be curious

if like social media existed at the day like

would it yeah whatever it would be looking at

the reviews most people seem to not even like

bring it up in what i read like they were talking

about how it was thought you know things like

that but it was never directly stated as much

as i could see so but i think it's very clear

that Of what it's trying to do. You could argue

it's a bit heavy handed. And perhaps it is. Especially

by Detail's standard. But I don't know. What

were your thoughts? I didn't feel like it was

that. I didn't have any problem with how it was

handled. Like I said. I think if you just watch

this film. With no knowledge of the time period.

That it was taking place in. Yes it may be specifically

talking about. That specific instance of. When

society. Wouldn't stand up for each other. but

i think it's still a timeless situation like

it's a timeless concept like that that isn't

the only time in the history of man that that's

been a thing right like no it's happened a lot

throughout history so i feel like that helps

it like where you can watch that with no knowledge

of what was going on in america at that specific

in that decade and you could still probably relate

to some of those things without feeling like

that it was specifically trying to like browbeat

you with this specific thing i don't think i

don't think it was doing I don't think it was

heavy handed, I guess. I don't, I don't see it

as that. Like, yes, you could pick up on all

of that, but I feel like a lot of that's just,

it could be taken and seen and applied to a lot

of different aspects throughout history. So like,

I didn't have any issue with that. I thought

if anything, I thought it maybe for me actually

elevated the film a little bit to know some of

that inner workings of what was going on. Hey,

I'll give credit to some of the members of the

film and Gary Cooper and, and some of the folks

that, you know, were very vocal at the time that

they were going to stand next to, um, this individual

and, and support him regardless of, of what was

going on. Cause it's obviously not something

that was easy to do at that time period. So I

think if anything, I guess the historical, uh,

person in me enjoys that. And it adds a little

bit of, uh, knowing what was going on at the

time period. And that's not just like, a generality

that they were making that it was something specific

almost to me helps it and i i didn't feel like

it was heavy -handed and you make a good point

about how we see similar ideas like revisited

again in like 310 to yuma like there's a lot

like i mentioned like there is a lot comparing

these two in in like they say a lot of similar

things i think on a holistic standpoint i think

the individual stories are very different obviously

you know but yeah you make a good point about

how a lot of what was within this we have seen

in other movies even within just this retrospective

and just the western genre so yeah like i said

i see like i said i see connections to jimmy

uh stewart's character and and who you know the

man who shot liberty valence i definitely see

some connections from the town standpoint even

though it's done completely different to like

a magnificent seven and then especially like

that classic original 310 to yuma you can see

a lot there um and then you have like you know

even from the spaghetti western like they did

a lot of the hey we're going to tell you that

right from the premise that this is all going

to lead to a showdown um yeah whether it's you

know they can go about a lot of different ways

of getting there and why and and if it's important

and not i would i would probably argue that the

showdown in this one is really not that important

um from a i mean i mean from a standpoint of

like what's going to happen and how it's going

to be executed and what's the and like it's more

about the character's reaction before and after

and things of that nature but like we already

kind of know like where we're going from that

standpoint so like i did have one question because

you mentioned like you know you bring up a lot

of good questions about not knowing what does

this mean for the town what like at the end of

the day was you know they all said no they all

gave up but at the end of the day it didn't really

matter because he ended up winning anyone you

know whatever you want to call it basically so

yeah true true uh do you think it would have

been i don't love like rewriting a movie or whatever

but i thought that was what i was thinking like

if he died like if like it was ineffective like

he ended up and killed and maybe even if like

he kills everyone but he ends up killing and

dying as well or whatever it may be do you think

that would have left you in a better place considering

the repercussions of what occurred or do you

think having you know having him be able to literally

walk away or in this case take a stagecoach and

like you know take his uh gun and go to his new

home yeah i think that would have had any different

impact on the way you experienced i don't i don't

think i would want to necessarily rewrite it

but if i was trying to go from that standpoint

i honestly wouldn't have him die i would have

her die because I know that's morbid. I know

that's morbid and mean and whatnot, but I think

it paints a better picture because they're expecting,

the townspeople are saying he doesn't really

have a chance, right? If she steps in as the

person that is having his back when the town

wouldn't, and she's the one that has to pay the

consequences for all of their cowardice, and

it's a pacifist, and in the time period it's

a female, and it's his wife, and all of these

other things. i think then you get that moment

where the town really has a reckoning yeah and

and understands like the error of their ways

or like she did what we wasn't we weren't willing

to do and look what happened because of our cowardice

like maybe i'm not saying i would do that but

like i could see that having like a little bit

more of an emotional punch Yeah, if they're ever

going to do a remake, it would be a way to go.

And then you get the sequel, like Midnight, where

he has a murderous rampage against the town.

It's like the opposite of The Magnificent Seven.

He's out to get the town this time himself. I

could see that. I don't know. I don't think I

would do that, but I could see how that would

actually teach the town a lesson, I guess, so

to speak. I agree. Rewriting a movie is always

tough, but I was just curious if that reaction

would have listed it a different reaction but

if anything it's interesting that you know i

think this is the one we've had the most where

the furthest apart so that's you know that's

always fun do you have anything else you wanted

to talk about yeah i just i'm a little surprised

because you would think this one would work better

for me because it does check a lot of my boxes

right like yeah you know that a lot of the things

that are happening like limited set and you know

although we're dealing with a town we're not

dealing with a lot of people like specifically

like they get a whole lot of time like you're

really dealing with, you know, a small handful

that really get like substantial time. And, you

know, it's, it's really focused on decisions

and, and, you know, the characters within them.

And, and I, I understand why chat GPT or whatever

thought that this would probably be my favorite.

I think if I, if this had been like the first

film we watched, I'm curious if I would have

had a different interpretation because for me,

it's a lot about the other films that we've seen

since that I felt like did some of these things

better. I will say when it comes to tension,

I agree where the tension in 310 to Yuma, especially

that hotel scene, there's no scene like that

within this where I feel like you can cut it

with a knife, the proverbial phrase that they

often see. It doesn't have that for sure. We

have the gunfight, but there's some clever ways

they come up with. using if they use the space

well you know using this fire to smoke them out

and stuff like that yeah but it's not you know

it's not this dynamic you know one where you

go back to it's not the part of it that is it

excels with the most so yeah i do wonder if this

was like the second movie or the you know if

this was like yeah it would have been different

but i'm glad i watched it like i'm glad i watched

it i'm not i i came across like probably more

negative than like was my experience like i didn't

detest the movie i didn't dislike the movie i

didn't i wasn't hating my time with it you know

i i did enjoy parts of it i did find some of

it interesting it just when i when i'm when i'm

stepping back afterwards and thinking about the

film it's like i just didn't think from you know

the certain respects like i would take the tension

in 310 to yuma i would take the character arcs

in uh the man who shot liberty valance i would

take some of you know some of these different

things from some of these different films and

it's like i get it it was earlier and it probably

had a lot of influence on those films and maybe

those films don't do some of that stuff and had

this not exist i don't know but like yeah it

was more like i just don't think it stacked up

to some of those in some of that respect and

i was curious kind of debating in my mind like

is it surviving more on reputation versus how

well it actually holds up to some of the films

that came later from it but i did not dislike

it like i would watch this again long before

i would re -watch a couple of the other films

that we've covered. Makes sense. So that is our

talk on our latest episode here, High Noon. Like

Dan said, what are we going to cover? I'll let

you say it again. What are we going to cover

next? And kind of set the stage, I guess, for

why we kind of called, nobody knows this, but

we kind of called an audible with what we're

going to do next. So fill the folks in. Yeah,

originally we were going to do Shane next, but

we're actually going to adjust because we mentioned

John Wayne a lot in this episode. And there's

actually a lot of comparison, not comparison,

but Rio Bravo is a movie that is often compared

to High Noon and kind of almost like the answer

to High Noon or it's seen as the very opposite

on the political spectrum in a lot of different

ways. So figuring that seems like a... Good way

to transition to Rio Bravo next. And then after

that, we'll do Shane, another classic Western,

to finish up this more classic Western block

of it. But yeah, Rio Bravo from 1959, which is

one I haven't seen before. And I believe you

said that you haven't seen it before either.

So that will be. And I think that is Howard Hawks

as well, if I'm not mistaken. We've got a lot

of him over the years here. Yeah. So I didn't

realize how many, like him and John Ford. Like

I know we had a John Ford block, but we basically

had a Howard Hawks block as well. Yeah, it is

Howard Hawks. I thought so. But yeah, so intrigued.

I'm intrigued. Yeah. And there's a lot of similar,

you know, same thing. A lot of people we've seen

before. John Wayne, of course. Although some

new people, not new people, but you know, Dean

Martin. I'm excited to see Dean Martin because

when I think Dean Martin, I just think of the

comedy. So I can't. I'm excited to see him more

in the Western role, so we'll see. ChatGPT says

this is going to be my second favorite out of

the four. Well, it wouldn't be the first time

that ChatGPT is wrong. No, that's for sure. I

don't even know why I'm using it. It's a funny

thing that I like to see how wrong it is, I guess,

how it's trying to predict what I like and what

I don't like. Get out of here. So yeah, so that

does it for... I shouldn't do that yet. So if

you want to keep up with us and all the stuff

we do, you can search out Dan at The Comic Concierge.

You can search me out at Optimus Solo. Dan, what's

the Facebook page for us again? Cinema Geek.

If you search Cinema Geek Movie Podcast, you

should be able to find it. For sure, and we post

some fun stuff for you guys to keep track of

on Facebook as we continue to battle at the box

office and look at the 2026 films that are coming

out and questions about the films we're covering

on these retrospectives. So definitely follow

us on Facebook and check out those posts. And

you can also go to thegcrn .com if you want to

find the website that hosts our show as well

as some other movie, comic, TV, cartoon. content

so that does it for this episode tune in next

time for another chance to listen to more of

the cinema geeks