Turtles Forever Review

Hey guys, Raphael here at the Teenage Mutant

Ninja Turtles. Did you say podcast? Dudes, dudettes,

you're listening to a podcast on the Gatecast

Radio Network. Cowabunga! Hello and welcome to

episode 196 of the cinema geeks I am one of your

cinema geeks optimus solo and joining me once

again for our turtles series is Movie revolt

Dan. Hello. Hello. How are you? Not too bad and

we are just chugging right along through the

turtles franchise of movies We've already covered

all three original live -action films as well

as the first animated Film from two thousand

seven so four episodes down this episode five

and we're gonna be talking about the two thousand

nine television film turtles forever so Dan let's

set the stage a little bit like we have with

all the other episodes what was your experience

with turtles forever prior to this and what were

your thoughts going into it. So this is the second

time I'm watching like we mentioned last episode

when we did the top one hundred animated movie

countdown I don't know forever ago I remember

watching it around that time. I did watch the

2003 series. I didn't watch it from start to

beginning, but I remember watching it because

the turtles were back and that was kind of cool,

but also feeling like it was a bit weird and

different, but I kind of came around to it. But

for some reason, I don't know if I just stopped

watching it by the time this came out, but yeah.

So this is the second time watching it and definitely

think it helped, certainly. Yeah, I remember

watching this I was not someone who watched a

lot of the 2003 series I mean I knew it existed

and I may have stopped in here and there but

it wasn't a series that I was watching at the

time I was like a junior senior in college and

I was changing majors and adding minors and just

super busy with school So I didn't watch a whole

lot of this when it first came out But I remember

when I had heard that the turtles forever Movie

came out I did check that out and I watched that

then I may have watched it once since then so

this is either my second or third viewing but

Other than that, I didn't have a whole lot of

experience with the 2003 series. So obviously

this see this movie is based on the 2003 Version

of the turtles and their world, but then it does

a whole lot of stuff to bring in other things

which was somewhat unique So we're gonna have

the 2003 version of the turtles and their world.

We're gonna have the 1987 Turtles and their world

and then we're also gonna get I think they coin

it the 1984 turtles which would be the comic

inspired Mirage comic inspired turtles as well

So what did you think of just kind of the premise

of this and how they're going to blend in all

of these worlds and different versions of the

turtles within the same film. It's interesting

because you know we think we like won't the verses

are all the thing now right we've got it in marvel

the spiderman across the spider verse came out

and then they've been a thing for a bit this

is like the first time they've ever existed but

it is interesting like going back watching this

now and you know considering like this I want

to get it first but it's it's. It's became cool

again. It's been the big thing so. It was interesting

like seeing you know this. And seeing the combination

of these two worlds and you know now we've come

to the point where we're seeing it like across

the spider verse which has like a billion different

things into it. So maybe it loses his luster

a little bit because now we've gone far and above

this and I know last week we talked about with

TMNT. One of its big issues was the like the

plot and I was overbearing and how it felt like

a movie that was a part of something else I get

felt like a TV movie with how much things were

going on and how it like dealt with things in

the past this one I feel like I have to go through

a different perspective because it is a TV movie

based upon a comic book series so a lot of the

things like characters or motivations You don't

necessarily expect all that to be at play here

cuz you're you know, I think it definitely assumes

you're going into this having some understanding

of the ongoings of the 2003 series uh, and I

I do but there was a lot of stuff I didn't fully

remember like the whole shredder thing and crying

and like I forgot like that was I don't I don't

remember what the whole thing was with them,

but You know at face value when it comes to just

you know, seeing these worlds combined. I did

enjoy it Do feel like the thing that came to

my mind is might be weird was actually Batman

by that. I mean when In 1980s we saw like Batman

kind of get returned with Dark Knight returned

to the Batman movie to like a darker sensibility

and a lot of people started to reject the Adam

West 60s Batman and like really hate that and

feel like it almost ruined Batman and I feel

like It's a similar vibe with this where it feels

like the people making this Really did not like

the tone of the eighties cartoon and really set

off to basically tell about how bad it was because

it did basically blatantly make fun of that cartoon

from start to finish for the most part. So you

know as someone who grew up with that it was

like okay i think we're taking a little bit too

far here and there you gonna make fun of the

blimp that's a little bit too much but. But outside

of that i did enjoy it was easy to follow i did

like the ambition of it a lot of great references

you know so i'm in the animation you know for

tv movie of that time i thought was pretty solid

but how about yourself well so for me and i think

it's smart that you bring up a couple of those

things especially the into the spider verse because

it's hard not to think of that when you're watching

this film and seeing what they did here. I don't

know you're probably more well versed on some

of the comic book television series and dc and

marvel properties that have happened throughout

the years. My history with cartoons is very much

like everything except for that so i don't have

a lot of experience with that but for me this

is something that i had never seen before as

far as. Blending multiple television cartoons

and their universe is into one movie or. TV special

or anything like that like I had never seen that

done for cartoons unless I'm just blanking on

What else has done that I'm not saying I'm not

talking about just the general idea of a multiverse.

I'm talking about specifically Two cartoon properties

being blended in another cartoon version and

I hadn't I don't think I've been exposed to that

if it existed prior to this I just haven't been

exposed to it or I'm drawing a blank because

that's something that's interesting to me and

the only thing i could think of is like beast

wars and how it like had made reference to like

the g1 stuff it wasn't like it they came out

and like they were you know interacting or anything

like that but there are moments here and there

but it wasn't to this level of course and i think

i think of yeah and i think the other thing though

that separates that even a little bit for me

which is a good call that does obviously reference

them but in their references or in their depictions

of the g1 characters they're doing it in The

style of the beast wars cartoon if that makes

sense like they're not. This one has like specific

like it's it's like it's pulling the other animation

style and dropping it in here it's pulling like

some of that stuff and it's in it's a situation

where you're having multiple of the same character

in a way and so so that was something that was

new for me and obviously there wasn't a lot of

opportunities prior to this to probably do that

because. It's not until the late nineties or

really into the two thousands where. We have

stuff being rebooted that would give that opportunity

to the extent that we've had it you know for

the last twenty twenty five years. And so you

are gonna see that in the eighties cause what

were they rebooting in the eighties you know

what i mean like it. Alvin and the chipmunks

i guess was a reboot on the album show but like

there wasn't a whole lot of that outside of maybe

scooby doo. Scooby -doo is probably the one thing

that has been rebooted earliest on and most often

as well as like maybe like the looney tunes and

things of that nature so maybe there's been some

instances in one of those properties where this

has been done that I'm just not well versed enough.

But I just find it interesting because of the

way they do it in the way that they're gonna

make it's not just the characters it's the animation

style it's their characterization how they're

acting that they're just like plucking and then

you get. Obviously the mirage versions of these

which we've never seen before an animated form

which is interesting and a cool kind of aspect

so like the younger version of me would eat this

up like this would be like okay i'm all about

like doing this and seeing where they go with

it and seeing like the nods to all the stuff

i agree with you that they do make fun of the

eighty seven series a bit to the extreme. But

if you're just kind of trying to like not as

much pay attention or take that personal i think

it's still fun to see. Yeah the different interactions

and stuff like that so we're gonna see i mean

it's not nearly as convoluted as the last movie

we covered as far as the plot goes but there

is gonna be a little bit of interweaving because

we are. Taking three different worlds and blending

them and having different characters involved

whether it be you know We see different versions

of of Casey Jones April O 'Neill crying Shredder

splinter some of them just one version some of

them to some of you know with the turtles we

see three different versions obviously So it's

it's an interesting way that they're trying to

blend that from a storytelling standpoint, and

I think they did an adequate job. I don't I didn't

really have a problem with the story as much

because i'm just kind of along for the ride and

seeing how they're gonna interact what they're

gonna like bring up like you said with the blimp

and they're just different aspects that they're

showing in some of the different universes that

just kind of make it an entertaining ride regardless

of the story that's being told told in a way

but at the same time i don't feel it was nearly

as convoluted as tmnt from two thousand seven.

Yeah i agree and you make a good point about

the animation style cuz not that it's easy to

do now with across the spider verse but. It must

have been so difficult just to try to do that,

to get the different looks, even when you go

into the different worlds. And you have also

the washout look when it's nearing its finale

and all that. I don't know if it was hand -drawn,

per se, because I know computer -animated graphics

were around that time. But it certainly probably

was quite a strain on the artist, on a technical

standpoint, for this to work as well as it did.

And again, considering it was a TV movies, you're

not talking about, you know, millions of dollars

of budget. It was impressive on that end. But

yeah, the plot so it isn't nearly as complicated.

It's pretty straightforward. Like I like how

it doesn't try to overly explain it. And you

kind of just jump into it right from the beginning,

even the way like they introduced the new turtles.

I thought was like pretty effectively done, especially

if you were just turning on the TV, knew nothing

about it, like how mind like that must have been

mind boggling. Like, wait, hold on. What's happening?

I unfortunately didn't experience that like you,

but that would have been really cool. The other

thing that so the animation doesn't throw me

off seeing the different styles interacting with

each other didn't throw me off. I thought, you

know, there's a chance that that would do something

like that when you're seeing those blend like

we've seen that done very poorly and other. Properties

or other movies or TV shows where they're even

where they're just blending CGI and live -action.

Oh, yeah It's really throws you off and I don't

think we got that, you know It seemed like it

was fairly fluid and and seamless in this but

I'm curious Because we're having three different

versions of some of these characters. We're also

getting three different sets of voices for the

most part and This was a for kids entertainment

was the production company was mirage studios

and for kids entertainment for kids entertainment

is not a union company So that disqualified them

from using any of the original 1987 voice actors

who are all union and it also there was some

stuff that they couldn't do music wise and things

of that nature. Did it throw you off at all to

see the 1987 versions of these characters and

then some of them sounding nothing alike as far

as their original voice actors. Did it this time,

because it's been such a long time since I've

watched the 80s series. And the first time I

watched it, it did, because they don't sound

anything like them. And especially now, since

we have the newer series, where some of the voice

actors have returned. But yeah, I didn't really

notice it too much. It didn't really throw me

off a huge amount. But it did seem like all the

80s turtles did pretty much sound very much the

same. The same outside of Donatello, but they

they didn't they all felt like they spoke with

one voice. Yeah, I can totally see that it threw

me off just because I'm so well aware of those

voice actors like Rob Paulson is one of the most

iconic voice actors of our generation. And you

know the other ones that are involved in that

towns and Coleman and I'm not going to name them

all, but they're just like ingrained in me. So

when I when I heard this night, I guess that

was something that I had forgotten. So i had

seen this at least like i said once or twice

and i forgot that they didn't use the same voices

so when i was watching this i'm like oh yeah

they're gonna have the 87 characters in here

and then my mind just said and it's gonna be

the same voices because like you said they've

been doing that recently so i was just expecting

it and so when i didn't hear it this time and

i had forgotten that that was a thing it did

throw me off a little bit i was like wait a second

they didn't use that so it did throw me off a

little bit with that As far as what was your

take on kind of or reaction to the Mirage universe

and that 1984 set of characters, do you think

they did a good job of kind of taking those comic

versions and bringing them into an animated world

or how did you think all that worked? Yeah, I

thought that looked great. I loved how they even

took dialogue from the actual original comic

as well and utilized it like doing the narration.

I thought that was effectively done. I also thought

it was interesting because you know how the You

know 2003 thought the the 80s version was too

corny and then they thought that the the 2003

wasn't like wasn't doesn't didn't go hard enough

either so it was like You know, I thought that

was kind of a nice little nod But I thought that

I thought they looked good like the black and

white world. I think was effectively done And

I thought the voice acting for those characters

seemed To fit quite well, even in speaking of

voice acting, I meant to bring it up though.

You mentioned how like the voices were different.

I will say the guy doing shredder like I could

have sworn it like, you know, was I can't think

of the actor's name. He plays Uncle Phil and

yeah, French pens. I thought it was the same

guy. Like honestly, I thought his voice was the

closest, but no, I thought the Mirage world like

each world I thought was pretty well represented.

Even the 87 world like it felt very distinct

and. I thought the transition from one world

to the next was done quite well. Yeah, I agree

with that and I agree that the shredder voice

didn't nearly throw me off as much as some of

the turtles just because of who I was expecting.

But I think another thing is the the 84 was interesting

because we obviously didn't have anything to.

Base it off, but we didn't have anything to compare

it to so it was interesting seeing that we had

Jason Griffith Sean Shammel And let's see clay

Adams and there's somebody else that did the

1984 versions was all pretty interested James

Avery, I think, is the character or the actor

we're thinking about for Shredder in the original

one. He played the Fresh Prince guy. So I think

it was interesting seeing that. And obviously,

since you don't have anything to compare it to,

the voices sound pretty good. I loved the animation

style. And I also loved that we have the dynamic

there that we're going to have the 87 turtles

who are being mocked, who are being made, that

you can't take them seriously. It's all about

jokes, especially when they are talking about

the 1987 Shredder. Like he just gets lambasted

in this movie to all together but so we have

these like 2003 set of characters who are acting

like they're the much more mature much more advanced

much more whatever. And it's funny that then

you kind of get that flip because then you have

the mirage characters who are even more mature

or even more serious and kind of badass so I

kind of like how that happened I just. I guess

for me if i had a minor nitpick like you like

what you were kind of looting to I think they

could have toned down how silly they were making

the 1987 just bear just a little bit like i get

that it's a sillier more fun comical humor driven

cartoon and you can touch on that i think some

of it went a little bit far like if it had just

been like like one of the jokes i really loved

or one of the bits that i really loved was in

the 1987 cartoon you know they really Spend a

lot of time of breaking the fourth wall and talking

to the camera and things of that nature So so

when they pointed that out in this one like that

was cool. That was funny It was clever like that.

I think the one character's like who are you

talking to? Why do you keep doing that? There's

nobody out there. It's like those are the types

of jokes that I would have been more Happy with

if we had just kept it to that I mean you can

mention that they're comedic and whatnot But

I like I said it I think it took a little bit

too much out on the 1987 cartoon regardless of

the the the Ninja star that you know like so

it felt like if you're gonna keep anyone competent

at least they kept on Tello and maybe it's because

he's my favorite that I was okay with that but

yeah. I did not know that he was your favorite

I mean I guess I kind of could have put two and

two together because we have talked about him

quite a bit but yeah I don't I still think I

don't know I go back and forth I know as a kid

I really liked Leonardo and Michelangelo. But

then with the live action film i kind of like

rafael even though he was kind of a loose cannon

donatello kind of was not as as like we talked

about in the first live action film really took

a backseat if i like but then in in what we've

seen since then he's definitely come back around

and i do i like all of them in different ways

so it's hard to pick a favorite for me. As far

as the rest of the story any comments as far

as the how this whole thing went people they

included people that didn't include or kind of

how it all resolved itself. No I definitely think

like it's hard to watch this if you have not

watched the 2003 series think you'll be very

lost even I was a little bit like because I didn't

remember why shredder was gone like some of the

purple purple dragons and think like some of

that like I would. deathly need a refresh and

remember but the story itself is simple enough

shredder wants to destroy the world and that's

you know or I guess wasn't like overly egregious

like it was there in the background that we get

that scene to work like it references a bunch

of the universe is that we see so this to me

was like fan service done right in a lot of ways

because now most of it was had a purpose or it

you know if you missed it you you know didn't

hurt you or you can you know it didn't feel like

it was just fan service for sand fan service

for the most part but. but yeah it it did have

a lot going on in the sense like like all the

different characters but it also had the benefit

of the fact that you they did a lot of backward

for those so you didn't like you know so I feel

like you have to kind of view it through a different

lens compared to like a theatrical film because

there's expectations compared to like something

else but so it's a little bit of a different

experience I agree and I and you bring up a good

point to about if you had to be familiar I mean

obviously familiarity with all with both 1987

and 2003 series would help because then you would

get more of the jokes you'd get more of the references

setter from just a straight storytelling standpoint

or just like on the surface you know who you

should have an idea of who the turtles are so

regardless of if you're not picking up on all

the Easter eggs you could still follow the. The

plot and the story by knowing the the main turtles

and shredder etc i think you're right though

for two thousand three we added enough characters

with hun and uh utram and the time shredder or

whatever you call it and cry and things like

that where i think that's where like that's the

series that you would most need to know and obviously

this was made in conjunction with that series.

So I do think you make a good point because if

you haven't seen that you like you're like who's

this one person what are the purple dragons trump

shredder I don't understand any of this so that

would be a kind of a point of contention where

even if you hadn't seen the 1987 series. Outside

of like maybe a few very small like cameos where

you see like Irma and a couple things like that

where you might not know who they are so you're

not gonna pick up on some the Easter eggs but

it's not really gonna take away from the main

characters cuz it's really just. The ones that

you know the best that are represented in the

main part of the story so I agree with that As

far as reception goes it doesn't it got some

obviously negative reviews as most things like

this do You know if you look at the Wikipedia

obviously there's some bad critical responses

if you look on the Rotten Tomatoes It doesn't

have enough actual reviews to have an actual

Rotten Tomatoes score But the actual audience

score is on there and that's over based on over

250 reviews and that's 84 % on that So just for

the audience score which is i guess a pretty

decent score there are obviously audiences tend

to. Judging is a little bit more favorably than

critics it's got a seven point six out of ten

and i am db. So mix reviews depending on if it's

critics are audiences or fans where do you think

this kind of stacks up i see said you're viewing

it through a different lens it's the first. Property

that we've covered that's more of a made -for

-tv film versus a theatrical film So obviously

that entails some different aspects to it But

as far as just your overall enjoyment and if

you think it's succeeded and what it was trying

to do Where do you think this kind of stacks

up with the ones we've covered so far? So I think

this is I think destined to be or designed to

be Movie about that celebrates the history of

the turtles from the beginning till you know

The end of not the end end but to the point that

they were when this was made I think it's successful

in that for the most part. I Even if it makes

fun of itself a little bit too much It's hard

to compare it honestly because it is It is it's

like comparing, you know, it's comparing like

a TV show to a movie But I do think in the sense

of like it's a little bit more streamlined than

that of team and T what we What we watched last

time it's more of a gimmick compared to like

the other films though like that I think. Rest

more on great stories and great character moments

this to me doesn't have many of those it's like

I said it's a celebration it's here to have fun

it's successful there are some good interactions

but I don't think there's much depth to it per

se I don't think it's really pursuing anything

beyond that compared to some of the other films

so with that I would say it's. You know not as

i wouldn't rank it as highly but i do think it's

successful at what it aims to be even if its

ambition is i want to say is Like it's it's not

necessarily trying the focus here isn't just

about telling This complex story it's about like

let's let's see if we can do this and like you

mentioned Considering it hadn't really been done

before to this level. They were rather successful.

So I think it's achievement on that end but As

a straight film i wouldn't i think i enjoyed

some of the other ones we talked about the first

live action film and i don't know i think even

tmnt a little bit more despite. That films issues

but what to see when we like rake them at the

end for sure i think right now out of the animated

versions i would prefer to watch this again than

tmnt two thousand seven but. That doesn't necessarily

make one better than the other if it's just which

one I would prefer to watch again So when it

comes to this one that almost reminds me of how

like a show it's not exactly this is not an exact

comparison here or a good analogy, but it's like

when you're watching a series and then whether

it be live -action cartoon, whatever a sitcom

maybe and then they have like an episode towards

the end of a season or towards the end of a series

that kind of like calls back on everything and

It's just kind of like it's there's no It's not

progressing any of the characters anywhere. It's

not telling any further of the story. It's more

just like let's celebrate what all of our characters

everything that the audiences love and things

like that not necessarily like a Just a clip

show where it just shows clips of previous episodes,

but kind of just something where it kind of looks

back in a different way on some of the things.

That's kind of what it reminds me of. Like community

that did a clip show episode, but all the clips

were of things that didn't actually happen in

the show previously. Yeah, there we go there.

I guess there is two versions. I didn't realize

this. There's like an uncut version and a different

edited version, so I wasn't keen on that, so

I don't know which version I even watched. I

watched the one that's on Amazon Prime. So yeah,

I'm sure I did too But apparently there's like

a dozen scenes that are cut from one of them

and that are in an uncut version I doubt that

that really does too much to Add any depth to

the movie. It probably adds a few more Easter

eggs or callbacks or homages, but Just in case

anyone's like wanting to watch it. You just know

you have two different options I guess to see

an uncut version or just the regular version

that aired on TV. So Any closing thoughts on

turtles forever or anything else turtle related.

No the way look at it is if this were to be if

this movie was the end of the turtle franchise

thing would be a fitting and because it does.

Wrap up or i agree kinda celebrate everything

luckily it wasn't the end as we're doing this

this this podcast evidence of that but yeah so

i'm glad i watched it and it does have me and

free to go back and rewatch that two thousand

three cartoon. If it was only streaming anywhere,

which is the thing I'm finding an issue with

a lot of the TMNT cartoons It's like right. It's

hard to really find them on any platforms, but

that's that's for another day So yeah, right

totally agree and just so you know, it is a sign

here. I was at Target yesterday And they do have

the toys out now for this movie that's coming

out this year. So it was interesting. I was I

was walking by the aisles and it was two end

caps of aisles right in a row. And one of them

was all toys for the new Transformers movie.

And the next one was all toys for the new Turtles

movie. And I was like, I think I just traveled

back in time. I almost stopped to take a picture,

but there was like too many people walking back

and forth. And I was like, well, that's kind

of creepy. I don't want to take any pictures

of anybody. But just because of how close the

two sets of toys were, that was kind of interesting.

So so. Next time that we cover a film for the

turtle series here on cinema geeks. We're gonna

go back to the live -action World, I believe

if I have my movies, right? I believe the next

one is gonna be the 2014 Teenage Mutant Ninja

Turtles I will have to double -check because

there's some other ones that we're covering here

in there But I think we're going back to some

live -action next time. So how many times have

you seen that 2014? Jonathan Liebesman Superhero

film. I had to say that because it's not Michael

Bay. I know it's always like because it was this

production company, right? That's right. So once

I think I've I've watched it one time and I might

have like seen It's been like on TV like here

and there but I've watched it once so I'm interested

to go back because like I remember not liking

it all that much and I remember there was like

a lot of hate for that movie, but If from the

moment like the trailer drop because people hated

you talk about it more next time but yeah i think

i've seen a one so i'm really intrigued to go

back to see what it's like now years later. Yeah

i remember seeing it in the theater when it came

out and then i don't remember anything after

like i don't believe i've ever seen a sense so

it's gonna be almost ten years since i've seen

it so i'm interested to kind of go back with

the. Older eyes and brain and try to revisit

it especially in the wake of what we've just

watched for the series with just seeing all the

other live action movies and some of the animated

movies i think it's gonna be interesting to see

that in the new. Lens so to speak so that's what

we'll be covering next time here on The cinema

geeks if you want to keep in touch with us or

other things that we have going on Dan What is

your tick tock and other things that you want

to share with people? You can find me on comic

con tears on on Instagram on tick tock on Twitter

if that still exists the time this goes out because

it seems like it might not But yeah, so comic

con tears you can find me everywhere Alright,

and if you want to stay tuned with anything else

network related geek cast radio network is the

main hub there where you can find all kinds of

different geek related content from Mike Steve

and everybody else involved and You can also

search out the geek showcase, which is my individual

YouTube channel. I've just finished the ultimate

Saturday morning cartoon lineup I'm gonna have

a wrap -up episode that's revealing the themes

for each hour that should be released here and

Probably at the same time this comes out if not

a few days beforehand so check that out, and

I got some other cool things Hopefully that you

would enjoy coming out on that channel as well

So that does it for this episode of the cinema

geeks tune in next time for another chance to

listen to more turtle talk from Dan and I Thanks