Top 100 Countdown – VILLAINS – Part 4 – #25-01

You're listening to the Geekcast Radio Network.

Unleash the geek in you. Who's that coveted number

one spot? Who has made the top 25? And all that

jazz. But before we get to that, let me introduce

who is here with me today to discuss these 25

characters. First off, we have Steve Megatron

Phillips. Hello. Yo. Ho and a bottle of rum.

Also, Movie Revolt Dan. Hello. Hello. We also

have returning our special guest for this entire

countdown here, the Simplistic Review crew, DJ

Valentine and Matthew Stewart. In the immortal

words of one of my favorite villains, you are

a vicious bastard, Rattalion. I'm glad you're

dead. I'm glad you're dead. See, I introduced

both of you at the same time to give you both

an equal opportunity to do the quote first. Yeah,

I was just going to get a diplomatic immunity.

It's just been revoked. Thank you. The white

guy says it, the black guy finishes it. Black

guy says there we go. Perfect. Regular Martin

Briggs. So that is the stuff you have to look

forward to today. Various quotes, a little riff

off on characters we don't even talk about, and

maybe some that we do to get you guys caught

up on what has happened so far. I'll give you

the little statistics like I do every time. It's

neck and neck right now at the top as far as

source material goes. We have 22 have been from

film and 19 from novels. So 22 and 19, only a

difference of three there between film and novel.

Those are leaps and bounds ahead of every other

source material. We have TV at 8, cartoons at

8, plays at 4, folklore at 3. video games at

two, and poems at one. As far as source material

goes, we've had six comic book characters, five

Disney characters, six characters that were from

horror films, seven females, four robots, and

eight beasts and or animals. So that's kind of

the rundown from the statistics here. So a close

race between film and novel. That's probably

not a surprise to too many people. Something

that may have been somewhat interesting from

last episode, we... had gone into last week's

episode with 12 characters that had appeared

pre -1900 and 10 characters that had appeared

in the 2000s. So we had 12 before 1900, 10 after

the year 2000, and we only added one character

to either of those categories. So it sits at

12 still as far as pre -1900 and 11 from the

2000s and beyond. So my first question is going

to go to Matthew here. That being said, we've

had 12 before 1900, 11 since the year 2000. What

do you expect as far as those two numbers to

go as far as the top 25? Will we have any pre

-1900 characters? Will we have any from the last

17 years? Or is this like last episode going

to be dominated by the 1900s? I think it's going

to be dominated by it. I'm trying to think of

any other characters that would really stack

up within a top 25 villain countdown pre -1900.

I think we really ran the gamut of literary and

mythological characters. So I think going forward,

we are just going to get the slew of well -known,

like we're getting the creme de la creme, if

you will, going forward. I don't really see that.

What order are they going to be in? I don't really

know. I think we had a really good mixed bag

for the last quarter of the countdown. It was

a good combination of everything. But yeah, it's

going to be. I think it's going to dump its load

this time. yeah load blown coming up folks on

vcast radio network another thing that interesting

to note so far we still have 80 percent of the

contributors have not heard their number one

fall at this point so 80 of people still have

not heard their number one pick some of them

will not hear it as we kind of alluded to in

the last couple episodes so some people may be

disappointed from that dj what are you looking

forward to today and any predictions as far as

you know some of the types of characters we might

see I think though we started off in an unpredictable

fashion, I think it's going to start getting

more and more like, of course, of course, of

course, like that. So, I mean, I think when it

comes to voting for your top 10, it's a little

bit easier than voting for your bottom, whatever,

100. So I think we're going to start getting

the ones that we've been, where's this guy? Where's

this guy? I think they're going to start popping

up now. Dan, what do you think? Right now there's

a three -character difference between film and

novels. Do you see either one of them running

away with it, or do you see it staying pretty

even between the two? Oh, man, that's hard. I

think books probably have a slight advantage

just because so many great movie characters and

movie villains are actually first novel characters.

So they might actually sway the actual vote to

book in literature, even though for most what

they know is. the movie first but let's wait

and see yeah absolutely and steve do you think

that there's any type of you know that wild card

that's still yet to be revealed that nobody will

expect do we have something that's going to be

somewhat unpredictable in this top 25 or do you

feel like with dj that this is going to get more

into your standard fare here i think we're going

to hit into our um our regular content here with

uh TV, film, comic, all that kind of stuff, kind

of diving in here with the top 25. Yeah, absolutely.

Could be the case. Another thing that I would

like to mention, because we have had quite a

few comments on the website, I think there's

like 40 or some plus comments just on this last

episode that revealed the 26 through 50. If you

are curious as far as the criteria that we used

in order to come up with this list, please go

back and listen to the introduction of the first

episode, because we did talk a little bit about

kind of what made a villain for us and at least

what the individuals on the panel used as kind

of their chopping block and kind of way to narrow

it down. down so go back and listen to that if

you're if you're curious as far as how we came

up with our list individually All right, I do,

last thing to do here before we start revealing,

just one more quick shout -out to those that

contributed to the list. There was a lot of them.

There's going to be a post that'll have all of

their information on. We've also been playing

a few of their commercials from a couple of them

that have those. So if you have a chance, definitely

check out those podcasts over the blogs, things

like Pop Culture Case Study, Following Films,

obviously Simplistic Reviews, well -represented

here, The Countdown Podcast, Mild -Mannered Movie

Men, Besotted Geek, Kevin... write stuff, bloke

busters, in session film, real films. And I think

almost everybody else has some type of connection

to geek cast radio network. So we want to plug

each of us individually. So, all right, that

is all the business out of the way. Let's get

right to it with our 25 pick. And before I say

that, I will mention that every pick today, except

for one is in somebody's top 10. So there's only

one pick today that didn't land at least in one

person's. top 10 and that would not be this first

one because this first one got all the way up

to number four for one individual so our number

25 pick on 52 percent of the list originated

in a novel played by kathy bates andy wilkes

so originated in a novel more famous probably

for the film what is your thoughts on this one

dj uh this is this is good i think this is even

good placement because there's a lot of stuff

going on around now about how get out is not

a comedy. And I always kind of always use misery

as an example, because there's funny moments

to this character, but again, she's sadistic.

And I didn't know what the hell hobbling was

until this movie came out. And there's times

where she's so entertainingly crazy. I guess

I want to say, or it's like this woman is out

of her. But I like her. And I mean, Kathy Bates

is this is, I think, the first movie I had seen

her in. I don't know if this is she must have

done acting before this, but this is the first

time I ever seen her. And just what she does

with this character, where it is like you don't

know what she's going to do next. I think and

I think where she's landing is a pretty good

spot to Dan agree or disagree with Kathy Bates

being top 25 material. I'm sorry, not Kathy Bates,

Annie Wilson. Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, I guess

by herself, Kathy Bates probably could. She's

played some pretty vicious characters here and

there. But no, yeah, I mean, when your character

is basically, you know, the main focus is legitimately

inducing torture on someone in such a matter

-of -fact way in some instances where it's like,

and it's the type of character that... certainly

has been copied and homaged on constant occasions,

but clearly done the best here. So I definitely

agree that she deserves a ring, and it's a good

character to kick off today's podcast with. Matt,

agree or disagree? I like this one a lot. Another

Stephen King representation, which is even better,

in my opinion. It's funny because my mother -in

-law, one of her favorite movies is Misery. I

don't know why. She's crazy. Careful. It's like,

I love Misery. It's like, oh, fuck. This is what

my wife might turn into one day. I hope not.

I mean, it goes to show that it's like a horror

movie at its kind of base almost, like at least

psychological horror. She won the Oscar for it

too, so she was good enough to win an Oscar as

well. But just even like DJ was saying, like

the thing of hobbling, it's like – it's hobbling

it's oh that's what's hobbling that's horrifying

and i want to never have that happen to me hopefully

at any point even though i guess in the book

doesn't she cut off one of his feet as opposed

to like right he cuts it off so it's like hobbling

is even worse because you see it it's like breaking

ankles is an awful thing and To more your point,

she's entertaining, so you're like, oh, she seems

like a downright nice person until she starts

doing all the crazy stuff in the movie. I love

it. I think it's a great pick, and it's kind

of one of those underrated villains because she's

a wolf in sheep's clothing most of the film,

and then her true colors come out when she doesn't

get what she wants. Steve, what do you think

of how we're kicking off today? Yeah, I... Completely

agree with everything everybody said already.

All right. Sounds good. Let's get to number 24

then. This would be the pick that is the only

pick today that did not appear in somebody's

top 10. However, 10 people had this character

in the top 40. So just the sheer number of people

that had it in that top half is how it's getting

in here at the number 24 spot. Also on 52 % of

the list. Just as a side note, there's only one

character today that is not at least on 50 %

of the list. So we are going to go to number

24. Originating in a film from 1978, our first

horror film representation for today, and that

would be Michael Myers. So Michael Myers here

at number 24, like I said, the only one that

did not make it into somebody's top 10. Steve,

we'll start with you on this one. What do you

think of horror getting a representation pretty

early today? This is kind of one of those definitive

go -to Halloween. I see what I did there. Villains

to kind of go to. I mean, you pretty much have

this Freddy Krueger and Jason, and that's kind

of the triumvirate of Halloween horror films.

So, I mean, this is kind of a good fit. dj you

had mentioned earlier like a mount rushmore of

horror film characters steve just mentioned mentioned

jason who was our number 31 pick and now we get

michael myers at number 24 were those two of

the mount rushmore people yeah um matt you can

go ahead go ahead and say the line man go ahead

say the line i know you want so many of them

he's gone from here he was gone but yeah i mean

i think about michael myers is uh Just the way

that movie opens is so like, I don't want to

say ingenious, but you just don't see it coming

when you listen. I guess, spoiler alert, it's

a little kid who murders his own. It's just it

starts off as such a that's his childhood. And

he grows to be this creature. And I think in

the script, like I think I said in a previous

one of these shows that he's only referred to

as the shape. You don't even, it's a thing in

the darkness that gets you. So he is the bookie,

I mean, the bookie man. And so Michael Myers,

and come on, you got to give him a little bit

of credit for the simple fact that he's wearing

William Shatner's face the entire time while

he's doing it. So yeah, I'm all into Michael

Myers. The fact that his sequels has somehow

diminished him, but I mean, you could pretty

much say that from almost every horror guy, but

the way the first Halloween. works and sets up

and it has the whole thing with Loomis it's so

good so much so I like this movie called The

Guest with Dan Stevens and it's essentially a

remake of that movie but if Michael Myers was

Jason Bourne so it still has influence today

in what they're doing and I think now Danny McBride's

trying to remake it Michael Myers is the one

you go to he's on that Mount Rushmore Matt, we

had said that, or basically everybody had agreed

that number 25, you know, Annie Wilkes was in

a good position, a good spot for that one. Do

you agree that Michael Myers is good at number

24 or should it be higher or lower? I like him

where he's at right now. It's kind of like, it's

kind of a weird thing because I guess John Carpenter's

original idea, it was more like in the whole

thing, it's movies like he's evil. Like there's

no. like, root to his evil. There's just an evilness

to him. Of course, later on in the sequels, there's

a curse, and there's all this other occult Samhain

bullshit that goes on with the Halloween movies,

but I won't get into that. And it's kind of weird,

because, like, when Rob Zombie took over and

did his version of Michael Myers, there was,

like, a reason for him being evil, like, kind

of sort of, like, he was kind of very serial

killer, which kind of, in my opinion, diminished

how scary he was, because it's scary when there's

no reason to a madness. that you don't really

know why Michael Myers is killing people. Of

course, if you think it's a curse, you're a silly

person, and those movies don't really exist.

But I think it's a good spot. And after this,

of course, you know the last horror person that's

going to be coming after Michael Myers. But just

for pure iconography. Yeah, of course, in the

hood. I see. But I think it's right there. I

mean, this is a good spot for Michael Myers.

He was definitely top 25 material and anywhere

within the top 25. I'm perfectly cool with him

being there. Dan, something earlier that you

had mentioned was that it was kind of funny.

The order that our horror villains were falling

and you thought you kind of expected a little

bit of a different order. What do you think of

the last couple here? And is Michael Myers more

deserving to be higher on this list than someone

like Jason? Oh, yeah. Like, I mean. If Jason

was higher than Michael Myers, he'd probably

have to start over and like, no, we got to redo

this. And there's no way you can't. Yeah. So,

and if the leprechaun or like, I don't know,

like that ends up higher than we, I don't know.

It's going to, it's going to be questionable,

but this is a lie. I like it. All right, let's

go ahead and move on to our number 23 pick. Our

23 pick actually gets all the way up to 60 %

of the list, 6 -0. That's the highest out of

the first half of today's episode, so nobody

will get higher than that until we get to the

second half. So 60 % of the list originated in

a film from 1999, so just barely sneaking into

the 1900s here. Number 10 pick, but that's as

high as he got. We're talking about Agent Smith

from The Matrix. So Agent Smith coming in at

number 23. I was somewhat surprised at the number

of people that did vote for him. Obviously, 60

% of the list he appeared on. And that was something

I wasn't expecting until I started seeing the

list roll in. And almost every single person

had this character somewhere on the list. But

he goes all the way from number 10 to number

95 on people's list. Because three people had

him in the 90s. And then a few people had him

in the top 20. Steve, what do you think of the

Matrix being represented here with Agent Smith?

I think that's kind of fitting because he was

kind of the main face of the villainy in the

Matrix films that Neo had to go against. Plus,

Hugo Weaving is pretty much that staple. He was

the Benedict Cumberbatch of the late 90s, early

2000s. So they used him for everything, literally,

and then they used him again for Transformers,

and then he was like, I'm out, guys. I'm going

to enjoy watching you die, Mr. Granderson. Dan,

what do you think of that? You didn't have Agent

Smith on your list, so is this too high for the

character, in your opinion? Yeah, I guess I think

so. I guess it's hard. I think he's a good character,

and Hugo Weaving's performance is pretty memorable.

I mean, just the way he interacts with Neo is

certainly iconic. His story, I think, works more

so than most of the actual Matrix sequels for

the most part, but I don't know. I guess concerning

some of the other villains that we talked about,

just because of my disdain for the, at least

specifically the last Matrix sequel, I just didn't,

I feel like he kind of goes off the rails a little

bit. I don't know. It seems a little high for

me, to be honest. I wouldn't mind if he's in

the top 100, but this high compared to some of

the other literary and movie characters we've

talked about? I'm not sure about that. Like Terminator,

I would put higher than I would put Agent Smith.

I mean, the thing about the Matrix films, the

first one is, though it might be stolen, is genius.

but the whole franchise kind of drops off. But

the one thing I think that's consistent about

the franchise is Agent Smith is awesome. I mean,

I like Agent Smith from the first movie to the

third movie. Cookies need love like everything

does. He's just so very diabolical to the point

where I'm kind of, I kind of feel bad for him.

In the first movie, he wins. And then because

of... some kind of cybernetic jesus he even goes

it's not it's not fair it's not it's not fair

i won i shot you 15 times why why why so i i

i sympathize with him and he's eagle weaving

at least in the first no i think in all three

of them he's at least feels like he gives a shit

once fishburne stopped giving his shit after

the first movie and it's written all over his

face keanu i can't read him he's a sphinx but

everybody else seems like they quit But Hugo

Weaving, I mean, he's just like, he's relishing

it, where he's like, yeah, you were there, and

I was here. He's so good. So, I mean, I have

Adrian Smith on my list because when... Years

from now, when we look back at the Matrix, he's

going to be the thing that I think stands the

test of time because he's always awesome. I think

this one kind of is a good representation of

what we talked about a little bit in the last

episode where at this point in the countdown,

I don't think it's questioning whether he's top

100 worthy or not. I think it's just about is

he top 25 worthy because I don't think most people

would have a problem with him being on the list

overall. Matt, what do you think is a good placement

for him, though, among the top 100? What episode

should he have appeared in? I think earlier –

I mean I can't even remember if I put him on

my list either because I don't really – I mean

I have a hard time with a lot of these villains

being so likable. But Hugo Weaving is villainous,

diabolical, but at the end of the day, he's just

like a program written. in the matrix like he's

created by if anything the higher power above

him the architect is like the more the villain

because he created these things but then later

on he becomes like the virus that sneaks in and

out the matrix but you can't deny like his face

his facial expressions in the movie his eyes

is like really super over exaggerated evil look

and everything so he he almost comes off as a

little bit like a mustache twirler a little bit

sometimes um so I think he's great. I love Hugo

Weaving. Like you said, Steve, yeah, he's like

the Benedict Cumberbatch of the 90s. The 90s

were so much better than they are these days.

90s suck. Mickey Rourke said so. I think one

thing that may have benefited Agent Smith when

we're talking about how high he crept up here

is not everybody's a horror film fan. Not everybody

is big up on Shakespeare. It's an actual horror.

Well, it's hard to have been someone from our

generation and not have seen The Matrix. So it's

almost one of those characters that is just universally

known by people regardless of what genre you

lean towards or you stay away from or whatever.

It's hard to find someone that didn't see The

Matrix. So I think that might have just the universal

appeal or knowledge of who he is might have helped

him because that's, like I said, 60 % of the

list, much higher than those people that we've

mentioned already today and much higher than,

well, a little bit higher than the people that

are coming up here in the next few picks. So

maybe just a little bit of universal knowledge

helping him. kind of sneak up a few spots let's

go to our number 22 pick and this is a character

that originated after the year 2000 so we are

going to get one i guess at least one so far

modern character I have heard his name bantied

about, I think, in the comment sections and with

people on social media a little bit, thinking

that he might show up, and he is right here.

We're talking about Anton Chigurh, played by

Javier Bardem, and a very classic, a modern classic,

I guess, character, so to speak. Dan, what do

you think of Anton Chigurh coming in here in

the top 25? I mean, the haircut alone makes him

at least a top 50 character. That's villainous.

Add in the performance. When you add in the performance

and it's just such a memorable character in one

of the best films of the 2000s so far. And just

like his menacing behavior, the way he reacts

and uses chance in a way to interact. And just

also it's always a great villain needs a great

weapon. And he has one. And it's pretty lethal.

And, yeah, I've certainly I think, you know.

It's I think a performance that I think put put

Harvey Brown down, who's obviously an amazing

actor, I think on another pedestal. And I think

a villain that so many are always compared to.

So it's hard to kind of break. the mold with

films and villains at this point in time, but

it certainly did that. Technically, now, if we're

counting this towards one of our source materials,

original source is from a novel, not a film.

Obviously, most known for the film by most of

us here. Is being played by Javier Bardem what

gets him onto this list, DJ? I mean, is this

character played by a different actor not as

effective? Oh, there's a movie that just came

out called Sweet Virginia with Jon Bernthal.

I forget the other actor. And Jon Bernthal was

saying it's kind of like our no country for old

men because the character is, you know, this

character shows up and he doesn't really have

anything. he doesn't fear anything. He almost

doesn't even feel pain. We can see him in pain,

but it's, he's doesn't like, you know, he gets

the buckshot in his leg or whatnot. And he's,

he's doing, he's just an instrument of fate or

chance or death. We don't even know exactly what

his backstory is. I mean, other than the weird

haircut, but he, I think she garden. I think

you could cast somebody else in this role, but

Harvey Oberdam, I mean, I wouldn't want to cast

anybody in this role because he's freaking amazing.

And Chigurh, the fact that like, what if Two

-Face was more realistic? Because with this coin

thing, and you almost think he's doing it almost

not for a code, but... Because it amuses him.

It amuses him to play with these people's stupid

piccadillos and how they live their life. And,

you know, you asked me a question that I don't

like. So I'm going to decide the fate of your

life with this coin toss because it amuses me.

That is villainous. And I mean, I don't want

to spoil the movie. I've never seen No Country

for Old Men. That code of his ends up. I mean,

he doesn't even get to get his mark. He gets

his marks. because he promised the Mark after

the Mark was dead that he would kill his wife

if he didn't help him. That's villainous. He

didn't have to. I mean, the Mark is dead already.

He's like, I'm going to kill your wife even though

you're dead because I told you what would happen

if you didn't follow my instructions. So yeah,

Chigurh is, I think he might be low on here because

he's, I think, this generation's kind of lector

in terms of... manipulation and just the diabolical

shit he pulls off. Matt, the question I was going

to have for you is six people had him in the

top 20, but six people did not even have him

in the top 50. They had him on the other side

of the 50 mark. So where do you side with this

one? Is it recency bias to get him this high?

Or like DJ's saying, is he deserving of this

because of the impact on this generation? I think

it's such like a – he became kind of like also

like a pop cultural phenomenon in a way between

the haircut, the look, the weapon, the weapons.

I mean between that and the silenced shotgun.

I mean two of the probably most iconic weapons

I've seen in like movies in a really long time.

And the Coen brothers just kind of do a movie

that they're not – they're able to do a movie

like that, but you hadn't seen a movie like that

and a character like that since like probably

something they did like – uh, Miller's crossing

or like blood simple or something like that.

So they, they kind of just brought it all back

around like 360 degrees. So like, Hey, we're

going to make a movie like we did back in a day.

And, uh, it could be revisionist history. I mean,

it's like, I don't see anybody else playing Anton

Chaguer besides Harvey or Birdam at this point.

I mean, he just, that, that role is to not be

touched just as. uh hannibal lecter nobody else

should play hannibal lecter besides anthony hopkins

but of course we got hannibal rising but that's

outside of our control altogether um but yeah

just everything about that character he's like

a he's more than just like a person he's like

a force of nature at this point he's just he

kind of comes into people's lives and just does

what he wants to do because he wants to just

do that and he and he has his own code and the

thing about it he has like his own code of ethics

like the whole like you're saying dj is like

I'm going to kill your wife. You're dead, but

damn, your wife's still alive. I guess I better

keep my promise to that. So he's an honorable

villain in a twisted kind of very crazy type

of way as well too. But murderous, diabolical.

Charming in some weird way? People who like bowl

haircuts, maybe? I don't know. You know what

gets me off? Bowl haircuts. Steve, so far we've

seen Kathy Bates, Hugo Weaving, and Javier Bardem

as far as actors of some of these characters.

Not that some of these characters appear as different

people and have been portrayed multiple times,

but is that a sign of things to come where we're

going to get some big -name actors as far as

the performances that we see for the rest of

today on these villains? Oh, yeah, I think so.

I mean, these people that have portrayed these

characters are pretty much known for playing

some pretty dark, twisted characters anyway.

So the fact that they're already showing up on

the top half of the episode just bodes well for

later. Absolutely. Let's see what we have here

next with our number 21 pick. This will be the

only pick today that did not appear on at least

50 % of the list. So the only character that

did not appear in at least half of the list.

So why are we talking about him? Because 20 %

of the list had him in the top 10. Him? It? Let's

say it. 20 % of them in the top 10. Let's go

with... Let's see. We had Annie Wilkes. We had

Agent Smith. We had Anton Chigurh. Let's keep

that trend going with another A word, alien or

xenomorph, depending on how you want to say it.

But the alien aliens from the Alien franchise,

I guess we can group them as one or you can pick

the queen. I don't know how you want to do this,

but originated in the 1979 film. DJ, this may

bring up the argument here, too. Like we talked

about a little bit with Predator and some of

the more like beast like characters. How do you

rank Alien when it comes to being a villain?

It's like a tornado is a villain. I don't see...

I mean, the xenomorph is one of the most scariest.

If you're talking about scariest things, the

scariest film villains of all time, and the fact

that it is... until like the later movies almost

impossible to get rid of this fucking thing or

even if you shoot him he's killing you because

the inside of him is acid it's like but villainous

i don't i mean like if you take a recent alien

covenant David is more villainous than the xenomorph

is villainous because he's doing this to people

knowing. I think the xenomorph is, again, just

trying to survive, even more so in The Predator.

The Predator's a hunter. He's making the choice.

I think the xenomorph is just, it's like a bee.

It's, you know, even if it's the queen, it's

reproduce, find stuff for the queen. I don't

think, if I was going to put this on the list,

if I had to be, I wouldn't have it this high.

But, I mean, again, in terms of nightmare fuel,

Yes. Xenomorph needs to be on this list because

it's scary as shit. It doesn't have a face. I

mean, H .R. Giger essentially is making a penis

attack you. It's it's it's it's visually visually

stylistically. Really, Scott and Giger, they've

created what is in your nightmare. So I can understand

it there. But in terms of, you know. manipulation

or calculation and all that stuff. It doesn't

really do that. It's just an animal trying to

survive and feed on you and reproduce. That lowers

it for me personally. Dan, agree or disagree?

I disagree. I don't think they're like bees.

They're like hornets, which are dicks. There

you go. I agree with that. Bees do benefit the

Earth. Hornets don't do anything. Xenomorphs

don't help anyone out. And they do have some

impressive tactics, especially when you see in

Aliens where they certainly use their numbers

to their advantage. They're kind of like the

Raptors, intelligent of the Raptors type of characters.

And I think they're just the best character design

of any type of monster ever, bar none, period.

the impossibility of killing them and just the

tension of that type of character can build i

mean just think about how it's born it's like

in the fact that you know legitimately is bursting

out of people's chests like that like that that

concept itself is insane so i yeah maybe they're

not necessarily uh you know evil plotting or

they're um have that are fully set in beings

in that sense but they are basically a parasite

in a way that are just looking to breed and some

you know you could probably make comparisons

to something like the um some of the other characters

like the borg or something like that but not

on a technical standpoint so i i do think they're

they're effective in that well in in that and

um in the way that they will basically you know

they do they do fight for survival but i think

they're also A sense where they look for domination

as well and to basically affect an area and take

it over because they go beyond that in certain

instances. So their ultimate killing machine.

Yeah, and that scene, that first time in the

first movie where you see one of them burst out

of the human chest, it's got to be one of the

most impacting scenes on a child, because I was

just, I don't know, terrified by that scene,

and I never wanted to see anybody give birth

again. Steve, what do you think about this whole

discussion about surrounding maybe the alien,

the predator, some similarities to maybe the

Borg? Are these types of characters worthy of

being mentioned on this list, even if maybe some

of them are more hunters or more survivors? and

not necessarily strategically trying to do something

villainous? I think so, but I also kind of agree

more so with Dan's statement that they're just

a creature and the fact that they're pretty much

useless, basically like a hornet. I mean, they're

just... They're pretty much just a creature.

I mean, you get something intelligent like the

Predator where it's actually, its goal is to

be a dick and hunt things down, and the alien

is just being a dick to reproduce. So it's, I

think they're kind of two totally different beasts

there. I mean, looking at the Borg even, I mean,

they're doing it too. uh, increased knowledge.

It's not necessarily, you know, they're, they're

about the same as, as Hornets as well. I mean,

you get stung by them and then they, they just

keep coming back, but, um, but there's still

an intelligence driving behind it. Whereas the

alien there's not, I mean, I still think it deserves

a spot on the list because of its iconic, uh,

nature and, and, uh, horror and, and pop culture.

But, uh, I think that there. I think that they're

just total dicks. That's all. Matt, did you ever

expect to have so much conversation surrounding

bees, hornets, and other flying insects? No,

I totally, no, I totally, I thought we were going

to bring up some other stuff too. I thought we

might get like, you know, yellow jackets and

all types of other shit that stings and like

bites you. It's like, fuck all these insects.

But I mean, I love a rousing conversation about

insects, but, but at the end of the day, it's

like, you think about the zine, it's like it's

still a creation by another power that kind of

brings into like you know the agent smith thing

again where it's kind of like what's worse the

thing that was created or the thing that was

it was created by in this way it's like the space

jockeys and everything like that but yeah to

dan's point it's like yeah they are assholes

who just want to like reproduce and kill but

i mean who knows how their intelligence would

like i don't know in terms of like they're on

a planet and humans are going around colonizing

and shit like that they're like get the fuck

off my planet man it's like i was here kind of

i was dropped off but um you know it's like yeah

but at the same time it's still a killing machine

that isn't it's incapable of any type of remorse

or anything it's like i'm just going to either

uh burst through your chest or uh squeeze your

face or drop acid on you drop acid drop an acid

drop an acid like an alien that'd be cool For

the record, there was some votes placed for David

from the Alien franchise, so he did receive.

He was amongst the vote -getters. And also, tune

in for our next Top 100 list when we talk about

Top 100 Most Villainous Insects. So that will

be coming your way. Let's go to our number 20

picks. So from here on out, we're going to do

our Top 20. And I don't know, maybe some people

would have been under the impression that we've

already talked about everybody from this creator,

but let's say the name J .R .R. Tolkien one more

time. Number 20, appearing in 56 % of the list.

Anybody know which villains left from The Lord

of the Rings? The Hobbit movies? Not the Hobbit

movies in general. 60 frames per second? We're

going to go ahead with Sauron. So we've had Saruman

and we had Gollum. Now we're on to Sauron. DJ,

what are you thinking? Did we get that in the

right order? I guess. I mean, I lean more toward

Gollum because of the depth of that character.

Sauron, in terms of the fact that everyone on

the... on middle earth is their whole everyone's

mission is to avoid saran so if you're going

to take that into account then yes he deserves

to be above them but i mean it's not really we

don't know much about saran other than he's evil

as shit i mean i almost put smog above saran

just because i know more about him it's like

saran is this this entity that's going to wipe

out all of middle earth whenever he comes back

though he gets defeated by a guy with a broken

sword pretty easily so i don't know where do

i where do i level him in terms of a threat he's

super powerful but he really doesn't his depth

perception is a little bit off but no i i i mean

i think in the they talk more about the his evilness

in the books more than the movies because essentially

we're we gotta stop soaring we gotta go to the

mountain to make sure soaring doesn't come back

and oh my god it's a necromancer he's soaring

it's he's always around he's the all -seeing

eye essentially uh so i kind of understand being

ahead but again personally i don't think there's

as much depth to him as there is to somebody

like golem or even soramon Dan, is there a chance

that some people on the list didn't know the

difference between Saruman and Sauron? Yeah,

certainly. I mean, I could certainly see that

because I kind of agree with DJ. He is less of

a character and more of the threat of annihilation

or the apocalypse, basically. again, speaking

as someone who never read the Lord of the Rings

book, you know, in the film itself, there's not

much there as a character, per se. I mean, it's

a thing you're supposed to be scared of, and

yeah, it's cool design and whatnot, but I think

it's way too high. I could see, you know, making

an argument for a top 100, but as has been mentioned,

like Gollum, I find is a much more interesting

character, and even, you know, Sauron. as well

though i don't know like it yeah this just seems

way too hard for me for the record we are simply

reporting the results and reacting to the results

so please when you're making your comments don't

ignore the fact that some of us have said for

some of these characters that we disagree and

some have agreed i mean but but there's both

sides of the coin steve what do you think saron

deserving of being in top 25 uh definitely not

top 25 but um i do think that he's he's pertinent

enough for See, I don't know. I like him in the

sense that he's supposed to be this all -powerful

and he has this giant army, yet it took a band

of, you know, a fellowship of a ring to take

him out. And the fact that a dude with a broken

sword sliced off his finger because he pointed

in the wrong direction. So that's what you get

for not having good armor. Good quality Elven

armor. You know, they didn't go for the jugular.

No, we cut his finger off. So, yeah, I mean,

it's a little bit ridiculous in that sense when

you break down the fact that he lost all of his

power because he put it in a ring which he wore

on his finger outside of his armor. Keep that

in better safekeeping here. Does he benefit from

being, I guess, the... biggest of the bad people

in the lord of the rings like if people were

trying to vote for just one lord of the rings

characters did they automatically just go for

him because he's like the the main person that

is is causing the problems throughout this film

even if maybe saruman or golem might have been

more better characters i guess i i think it's

because he's that kind of lingering evil that's

behind the evil and and in that essence and and

i think that that's why he more so got where

he landed, but I do think that Gollum is much

more of a fleshed -out character than any villain

in Lord of the Rings. But, yeah, I mean, I think

that it's just being able to put a name to and

kind of an eye to the evil that's surrounding

everything. As opposed to, oh, we're just being

chased by armies of orcs for no reason entirely.

Right, right. This will be interesting. I'm interested

to see what the listeners and reactions are going

to be to some of the ones that have... fallen

so far because quite a few of you have disagreed

with their worthiness of being top 25 also i

had said that he was on 56 of the list i'm not

going to read any of the percents for about seven

characters because the next seven are all either

52 or 56 of the list so i'm not going to be redundant

with that but let's go to our number 19 pick

which originated in a novel maybe more known

for a film but the novel came out in 1962 i'm

going to need you guys to defend this one for

me because Unless I need to re -watch the film,

and I know this popped up on a ton of lists when

I was doing research. We've already had comments

on the website as far as if this character would

show up or not. And I need to re -watch the film,

I guess, because I don't view her as a villain.

I view her as an antagonist, maybe. But I think

you guys are going to disagree and maybe defend

the placement of this one. But at number 19,

we have Nurse Ratched, played by Louise Fletcher,

obviously, in the film. Dan, you had her fairly

high. What makes her a villain as opposed to

an antagonist? Well, I mean, she's certainly

antagonizing, but I think what makes her a villain

is the way that she's treating individuals and

kind of using her power to manipulate and control.

Does that make her a villain? Yeah, I would say

a villain. I mean, you're when you're legitimately

I mean, considering the ramifications of her

actions and what it leads people to do, like

you're talking about, you know, basically taking

the week of the week and manipulate them and

getting away with it because you can. I mean,

that's that's pretty evil. I mean, when you talk

about, you know, you know, consider it like.

if you were to expand this it's something as

similar as like a teacher or some sort of professor

manipulating their students and that but their

students can't leave and they're stuck there

so and you know she's not necessarily doing it

in a way where she's yelling and screaming she's

not torturing people but psychologically she's

destroying individuals which is far more damaging

in a way maybe less not physically painful so

i certainly think that's what makes her such

a memorable character and the way that she um

You know, in what she also represents on more

of a meta standpoint in the viewpoint of mental

health care at that time certainly is also part

of what makes her such an important character

as well. And I think a lot of people obviously

will be happy because a lot of people were hoping

that she would show up here in the top 25. Also,

the second female so far today, Annie Wilkes

and Nurse Ratched. DJ, what do you think of the

placement here? I agree. I mean, the thing about

Nurse Ratched that I always thought was villainous,

i think dan's hitting on is is that nurse ratchet

there's nurse ratchets that exist in this world

many that do these things that you know use their

power to manipulate and uh harm when they're

sole reason, their sole job is to help, they're

doing the complete opposite of that for power.

If that's not villainous, it's presidential material,

but it's got to be up there in terms of villainy.

When it comes to Nurse Ratched and it comes to

Cuckoo's Nest, for you to have Jack Nicholson

on his heels, you're a villain, I think. I agree

with her, being honest. I guess I need to rewatch

it because I always viewed her more as not independently

doing some of the things that she was doing.

I always viewed her more as following the...

commands or the instructions of the institution

or the powers that be that were that were running

the place but maybe she was just following orders

is that what you're saying yeah some other people

that were following in order following orders

right no no but i'm saying that doesn't make

her less villainous necessarily but it makes

like the people in charge to me even more villainous

And so it was hard for me to pick her out as

opposed to maybe the whole organization, so to

speak, and like the whole institution, I guess.

But like I said, I've only seen the film one

time, and I need to watch it again. Matt, what

do you think of the whole thing? I think we're

hitting on some big points here with a lot of

these villains. It's like how – like all these

people are like products of the environment that

they live in, and that's why they become villains.

So what's more villainous? But at the same time,

it's like – I think what makes her a villain,

though, in this way is that her actions lead

to the death of beloved characters in a film.

So it's like we all know what happens to Jack

Nicholson. And we know what happens to what was

Billy, the guy that kills himself. due to her

like doing what she did so i think that's what

really gets under people's skin that she was

a direct result of these people having horrible

fates befall them at the very end and then to

dan's point and to dj's point like it's taking

taking advantage of the meek and people who can't

help themselves and doing things like that and

maybe not doing it in a you think you're doing

it in a malicious way you're like you said kev

you're following orders and things like that

but there still has to be A hint of empathy.

Yeah, still despicable. There isn't a lot of

empathy you see throughout her except when she's

getting almost choked out by Jack. And then at

that end, she's maybe like, oh, fuck, maybe I

shouldn't be such a bitch. I don't know. But

yeah, at the end of the day, it's still because

her actions are pretty notorious in the film

and it's sad. It's sad and it's... For sure.

So, yeah, interesting to see if people think

we're getting them in the right order so far

or not. And interesting here on this next one,

because I think there will be a debate on which

one deserved a higher spot. And this was, again,

one of the most pain in the butts parts of my

job here in compiling all this data here at number

18, because we're going to have another character

from the Terminator franchise. And it's funny

because every single list had the word Terminator

on it. So everybody that contributed had at least

the word Terminator and trying to track down

which Terminator version ended up with one of

them in last week's episode and one of them in

this week's episode. So I guess if we would have

just like did Terminator in general, it would

probably be number one overall because we had

the T -1000 at the 39th spot and now we have

the T -800 in the 18th spot. So a lot of love

for both versions, I guess, of the villains from

the Terminator films. Dan, did we get that in

there? of right order, or what do you make of

kind of the split between the two? I think so.

I guess it also depends on how you're rating

it when it comes to villains. If you're looking

at what one's probably more dangerous or harder

to kill, you know, the T -1000 certainly has

that ability to morph and things of that nature

that makes it like an upgrade, but I feel, I

don't know. I always felt when it, maybe because

I watched the first Terminator as a kid first,

and Arnold just has the physical presence he

had in that film. And the image of him crawling

in this metal, like an exoskeleton, or not exoskeleton,

but skeleton. I thought that was just so effective.

It just... you know that that villain that you

can't kill or manipulate in any way and it helps

when you have michael bean kind of explain just

the dangers of that character so i i they're

very similar obviously because they're the same

design but i i don't know i i guess it's more

of a personal preference really because i think

there's not that much difference between one

and the other outside of the design of the character

But for me, I always enjoyed the T -100 more.

So a lot of people picked one or the other and

just put them on the list. We did have a few

people that ended up actually putting both on

the list at different spots. Steve, we had 10

people that ranked T -800 in the top 30. So do

you think this is a good spot for the T -800?

I mean, we've had a few characters so far today

where people have questioned whether they're

top 25 worthy or not. Is this one for sure top

25 worthy? I think so. I mean, it's still one

of the iconic... Even though it started off as

a villain and kind of turned it into an anti

-hero in a sense. And numerous bad sequels. But

I definitely think that this has a place on the

list. Especially higher than the T -1000 with

it being Arnold and just the way that first film

kind of came out. It was dark. It was freaky.

You had the fact that the robot still wouldn't

die and had to go through a garbage compactor

to kill it. And it still was trying to reach

through. So, I mean, it's a pretty unkillable

machine. DJ, do you think it'll be split and

half the people thinking that one should be higher

and half the people thinking that the other should

be higher? I don't think so. I think this is

fine. I think this is fine to be above because,

one, it's the originator. In terms of collateral

damage, the T -800 just slaughters a police station.

Like the T -1000 is more selective in his killing.

He doesn't just randomly kill everybody. T -800

doesn't have time for that. He just kills. He

walks out of a police station and then drives

a car through the window. kills the guy, and

then mows down everybody else. He goes door to

door to shooting people. He buys guns. He murders

the gun salesman. He's killed more, I think.

The T -1000 is probably more dangerous, but I

think the T -800, when we first saw him, I mean,

fuck you, asshole. He's a soul. There's no, like,

what does Michael Biehn say? He absolutely will

not stop until you are dead. I mean, I... The

fact that he is taken out by Sarah Connor in

this press, he scares you. T -1000, he never

really scared me. He's a great villain, but he

never really scared me. T -800 is frightening,

man, because he just keeps coming. Yes, sir.

All right, so we'll have to wait and see what

people think with the placement of the T -1000,

T -800, or the Terminator franchise overall and

the double representation there. But let's move

on to our number 17 pick, also the first pick

that's going to be 1 ,000 points or more, which

means the equivalent of being 10 people's number

one pick. So 1 ,000 points or above from here

on out. I like this one, too, because I get to

name a creator, and let's see what you guys think

as far as which character it's going to be. 20

% of people had this in the top 10, actually.

The creator would be George Lucas. The character

at number 17 is... The time has come. Execute

Order 66. Emperor Palpatine. oh palpatine at

number 17 56 20 of people in the top 10 we've

been a long time since we had a star wars character

back in episode the first episode of this episode

one episode one no pun intended darth maul um

dj what do you think of emperor palpatine showing

up here in the top 20 No, you will die. Stop

it. I'm sorry. Absolute power. Absolute power.

You don't know the power of the parasite. We

could just sit here and just do Palpatine all

day. These impressions are villainous. It's funny

because he has, speaking of a character like

Sauron, it doesn't really show up. He kind of

doesn't show up until, I mean, original trilogy,

the last movie. I mean, he does a little cameo

when like Empire Strikes Back, but he doesn't

really show up until in the last Return of the

Jedi. And he's so sinister. I mean, if you watch

that movie again, his window. it's shaped like

a spider's web, okay? Look at it. It's shaped

like a spider's web because he's so, he's just,

and he's, oh, yeah, I'm afraid the Death Star

will be quite operation. He's just so, like,

playing with Luke. He wants everything to happen.

And if he's using the rule of two, he killed

his master just so he can learn the secret to

bring back people from the dead. I mean, he,

and the thing about Palpatine is, I think he

thinks what he's doing is right. Conviction is

a different... is scary enough where he's not

he's not really mustache throwing that i want

to be evil he's like look man if you break down

the that conversation the one thing that's good

about the prequels is that conversation he has

with anakin at the opera where he has said and

it's better than the book i have read that book

and he's essentially breaking down all of the

uh fallacies and logic loopholes that the jedi

have and once you start reading it or listening

to it you're just like you know what You're right,

Palpatine. Sheev, whatever the hell your name

is. You're right. I think, I believe, and he's

so good. And to this day, everybody's like, maybe

Snoke's Palpatine. Maybe Rey's Snoke's, because

everybody wants Palpatine back because he is

so... diabolical and i i love him and i mean

ian mcdermott i don't know why this guy i've

seen him i think he must be a play guy because

i've seen him in this and i've seen him in a

tv show i watched from the uk and that's it i

don't need a sleepy hollow i guess that's all

i see him and he's so fucking good i don't understand

speaking of names i did have about five different

names submitted for palpatine um including emperor

senator just his first name etc um it matched

We had our last Star Wars pick came in at number

99. So we went from 99 up to 17. Are you surprised

that there was that big of a gap and we didn't

see more Star Wars characters? I'm not really

surprised because, I mean, think of Darth Maul.

He's like the blunt instrument. Not really a

lot of history unless you kind of go into, like,

Rebels and Clone Wars and some of the other stuff.

But this is where the rubber hits the road in

terms of, I guess, Star Wars villains because

I'm sure we'll still see another one down the

– the countdown at some point soon but um yeah

i mean he's the ultimate sith he's the sith who

deals in absolutes and uh people who are villainous

deal in absolutes they see in black and white

it's like i'm right you're wrong what i'm doing

is right and uh i'm just gonna kill you with

my force lightning right now if i want to um

but yeah i mean it it's fun it's like seeing

him even in the prequels i mean the prequels

aren't very good at all um but still seeing his

Like a journey from low -level guy, who of course

is already a Sith guy, but you don't know that.

But he goes from this little guy manipulating

everything. So he manipulates people throughout

the course of like 20 -something years. So that's

some good long -term villainy going on right

there. And he's a long -lasting character. He's

with his hood and everything like that, and he

just has that look. He's like Skeletor, but he

can whoop Skeletor's ass. There's definitely,

I think, point villainous points when you can

shoot the lightning out of your hands um that's

just right good for any villain to be able to

do that of course um steve you know we had darth

maul back in 99 was there any thoughts that we

might get like a i don't know a job at a hud

or count dooku or general grievous or or some

of the i know some people talked about maybe

some of the book characters or some of the expanded

universe any thought that we would see any of

those or are you this kind of following the scheme

that you would think palpatine would come up

next Well, I was rooting for Palpatine to come

up next because, one, I've always loved the character

from Return of the Jedi before all the prequel

stuff came out. He was always my favorite villain

just because of his sarcasm at the end and the

fact that he had that kind of dark Willy Wonka

humor. I mean, really, I mean, good day, sir.

He's like, oh, no, wait, don't stop. You know,

just kind of that kind of portrayal. I mean,

that's that's kind of what I got from Palpatine.

And then the fact that I went as him for Halloween

for about four or five years and scared the crap

out of people. It was awesome. I just sat on

a special chair on my my my porch and handed

out candy on Halloween. look like palpatine statue

and then i i jumped out at them and you'll catch

unlimited power but uh yeah so i mean i i've

i kind of thought he was going to come up next

and and the fact that he's playing the long game

in in the star wars uh universe uh just speaks

volumes of his his darkness that that he's uh

He's been planning this for a long time and everything's

working out according to plan, except for those

accursed rebels. So he's like the anti -Batman

for the Star Wars universe. He goes in the cloak

at night, and then he's mild -mannered Senator

Palpatine during the day. Dan, final thoughts

on Emperor Palpatine. Not that we haven't agreed

with you on most of these, but you were brought

up a couple times where you thought maybe somebody

wasn't top 25 worthy. Where do you think, as

far as Palpatine, is he top 25 worthy? I don't

know. There's been a lot of good points regarding

the character. He certainly is menacing. I just,

when I'm looking at the scope of just villains

in general, considering some of them have not

come up yet, I don't know if I feel like he's

that dynamic of a character that makes some of

the ones we talked about today. I don't know.

I think he's great for what he does, but I feel

like he's always just, again, putting the prequels

aside. He was never a character where I'm like,

oh, wow, that's a complex character with a lot

of layers to him. He's the evil emperor, similar

to some of the characters we talked about, so

I don't know. I'm not against him being in the

top 50 or so, but if, say, there are certain

characters that don't make this list over him,

for example, I think there are better and more

interesting Star Wars villains than him. I don't

know. I'm not at a loss for words, honestly,

because he's got a lot of great qualities and

stuff like that, but he never truly interested

me as a character. I just thought he was just

the guy that's like the end boss battle of a

character, and he's really just there to push

Luke to the edge and a character to kind of drive.

darth vader but speaking of the edge i'm going

to do my best to talk you off of it um because

uh for the remainder of that we have 16 characters

still to reveal there's only one of them that

was not on your list so i think we're going to

get you back in our good graces here with some

of the reveals coming forward here so let's move

on to our number 16 pick originating in a 1974

novel again probably more known for the film

that he was in He? I guess we can call it he.

He has a name. Bruce, I believe, is his name.

Let's go with Jaws. Jaws coming in here at number

16. Let's renew the argument or the lack of argument

or the debate here about creatures, animals,

villain, not villain. We've heard why it doesn't

make Predator or Alien or some of those characters

villains. Why does it work for Jaws, DJ? I don't

know if it does. I mean, in terms of scaring

me, Jaws scared the shit out of me. I mean, that

commercial about, I mean, you guys are probably

young. You don't remember the commercial where

he goes, it's not safe to go back in the water,

all that stuff. That was true for me for a very

long time. I didn't go to the beach. I didn't

go into swimming pools. I was scared of my toilet.

I had a blue carpet in my living room. I didn't

want to go in there. Anything with water or look

like water scared me because Jaws is a real thing.

thing there is great white sharks out there it's

not like some crazy xenomorph penis monster or

a intergalactic hunting monster there is great

white sharks and the way john's acts in the movie

he is kind of calculating i mean and in terms

of you know child murder i mean chalk went up

for bruce uh the fact that they're trying to

catch him and he's essentially testing their

defenses which you could say the xenomorph also

does uh uh it makes him kind of cackle. But again,

is he just trying to, is he doing what the shark

would do? No, maybe, because I think, I think,

what's his name? Robert Shaw, Quint. He essentially

says, I've never seen it. I've never seen the

shark do this before, you know? So stuff like

that makes me think he's more, got something

upstairs. But this is, I'm kind of on the fence

of putting all these beasts up there. But I can't

really argue because Jaws scared the shit out

of me when I was a kid, so I have no teeth. He

was on 56 % of the list, and the only reason

I bring that up is to also bring up the fact

that 48 % of the list had him in the top 50.

So most people that voted for him had him in

the top 50. Almost half of the contributors had

him in the top 50. Dan, where do you sit on this

debate when it comes to more of the beast, animals,

monster, that type of faction? You know, I was

on the Xenomorph side, so I guess I would in

default have to be on the shark side as well.

And I think it's a little bit more than, like

you mentioned, a little bit more than just normal

shark behavior. There's something to it, especially

if you please don't count sequels where legitimately

you have a shark that goes out for revenge because

that's a thing that happens. Of course. The curse

of Bruce. Exactly. And I think, you know, If

a villain can be menacing, it's hard to beat

Jaws. I mean, he certainly is extremely scary,

and it's just a beast where you just don't know

how to defeat it. You're going into its territory,

and you're kind of a pawn in its game. So I think

that's quite effective. And it also works because

you don't see much of him. Due to much of the

issues that were at the time, you know, through

luck, Spielberg had to kind of use what he had.

And I think that ended up making him that much

more of an oppressive villain because he was

used so sparingly. And when you did see him,

it was effective. Although Back to the Future

would argue he still looks fake. shark still

looks fake i still think you know for the animatronics

um so and not to mention he also had the biggest

like one of the biggest rides of all time until

it was finally taken down because harry potter

needed more more room but uh we had yeah i think

he's certainly deserving because he's one of

the it's this movie that caused for a lot of

these villains we talked about star wars for

example who knows if they're star wars if there's

not jaws so Yeah. Interesting, too. We had this

one in one of our Facebook matchups early on.

We had the Jaws and Moby Dick comparison. So

maybe we can renew that conversation. Matt or

Steve, any last thoughts on Jaws before we move

on to our next character? I just have trepidation

putting animals. But to your guys' point, I mean,

yeah, it's like. Who knows if the shark is a

super shark. Maybe this is the prequel to Deep

Blue Sea that we always wanted. No, we don't

really know. I don't know. He's a smart shark.

I mean, it's one of those things where I just

have a hard time putting. animals i mean next

thing you know if are we going to put the bear

from the revenant in there because he ripped

off oh leo's dick or something like that it's

like oh well the bear is a villain he ripped

his wiener off he can't have baby leo's anymore

um i don't know it's one of those things i didn't

think would come up today exactly i was thinking

about that i'm a spark shark too but it's like

i think there's also like a thing about what

are you scared of versus what do you what's villainous

in my opinion it's like i think people are scared

of jaws for a very good reason you should be

scared of great white sharks they are real they

will kill you if you go in the territory but

in terms of villainy i just don't see it fear

yes villainy not so much All right, so interesting

to see what people's reactions are on that debate

with the animals and beast characters, monsters,

so to speak. That means we are up to our top

15. Less and less spots available for those characters

that you've been waiting for to show up on. Steve,

question for you here before we reveal number

15. What have we not had today so far? Comic

books. All right, let's fix that here with our

number 15 pick. We're going to the world of comic

books for a character known as... Magneto. Yes,

sir. You see, Senator Kelly, like you, I believe

that mutants and normal humans cannot live together

in peace. The war for survival must begin now,

while we mutants are strong and you are still

divided. No, please! I've got a family! Children!

Be quiet! When I was a boy, I saw men executed.

Women and children. Each night, I swore... to

myself never again. But we must prevail. Goodbye,

Senator. Mutant liberation begins. interesting

15 even though i have it written down as magento

i don't know so like two people two people that's

how two people submitted it i'm sorry two people

comics version i counted the magento votes as

magneto so i i unless there's a magento out there

that i don't know about i thought that they probably

meant magneto all the way it wasn't me all the

way up at number two for two different people

here what we'll start with one of them Dan, what

do you think of Magneto here ending up at number

15? I 100 % think he's the greatest villain when

it comes to comic books because, like I mentioned

in the first episode, I find villains much more

interesting when there's legitimacy in what they're

trying to accomplish. It gets a little bit complex

when you talk about Magneto because he certainly

has moments when he is not a villain and he's

leading the X -Men and he's a character that

does go back and forth. at his heart, I certainly

think he would qualify as a villain. And specifically,

if you look at like the relationship between

him and Charles Xavier and how he's willing to

do the things that Xavier isn't and able to go

about things in a way that's more forceful and

breaking the rules and kind of putting others

in danger because of the survival of his race

and in the survival of his people. And he has

a lot of legitimacy in that claim because he's

seen what happened when people didn't act and

didn't allow things to happen to just hope the

system would fix it. So I always find him such

this interesting character that. certainly represents

a lot and kind of he has moments where he does

go completely crazy and does go off the wall

especially in the new X -Men line where he has

this crazy relationship with Zoran and I don't

want to get into it because it's hard to explain

but I always found him like the reason I like

the X -Men is because they often have characters

they have someone like Apocalypse who's pretty

straightforward but Magneto There was an interesting

relationship there, and it wasn't just this guy's

bad, this guy's good. It was a little bit more

to it than that. You had to have – he brought

up points that were legitimate. You couldn't

just dismiss things he was saying, which makes

him, to me, a more compelling villain, where

maybe he has limitations in how evil he will

be and maybe the fact that he doesn't necessarily

always side with – he'll fight on the good. on

more more than one occasion may limit him what

he lacks for and straight up like um willingness

to kind of becomes uh evil he makes up for and

what he represents and the stories you can tell

around him steve it sounds like you might disagree

so i'll let you go next I mean, yeah, he's a

really strong villain, and he's probably one

of the strongest, more fleshed -out characters

in the X -Men universe. However, more often than

not, especially in certain aspects of the, whether

it be comics or animation or film, he's kind

of more of an anti -hero than an actual villain

anymore. And I know that that's adding a lot

of gray area to him, and I know that he's kind

of a villain, but from his perspective, he's

kind of justified in some of his attacks of mankind

because of what he's gone through between the

concentration camps of World War II and everything

else that's happened to him throughout his life.

So, I mean, I definitely think he's deserving

of the top 100 list, but... uh just because of

his iconic nature and the fact that he's been

a villain throughout it but uh uh i i don't know

necessarily if he's totally a villain at this

point interesting interesting take here 52 percent

of people had him in the top 40 52 percent of

all lists had him in the top 40 dj what do you

think of magneto here at number 15 i think I

think because I'm a demented person, I'd never

look at Magneto as a villain. Because I've always

seen him as reactionary. I mean, he was in Auschwitz,

for Christ's sake. So anything after that point

that he does to anybody else, I don't see as

a villainous act. I almost see it as revenge.

And sometimes the survival of, Dan was saying,

his race, he's reactionary and preemptive. I

mean, he rips out Wolverines at Manium after

Wolverine attacks. Everything he seems to do

that I remember, it's always because it was either

somebody's attacking him or he's trying to prevent

an attack. I don't see him mustache twirling.

I got to rob a bank or I've got to, you know,

I just see him as this. guy who has been wronged

his entire fucking life by everyone so he's tired

of it man so he's he's trying to so i mean on

paper the stuff that he does is bad but he has

such good reasons to do it even in x -men first

class in that scene at the very end of the movie

i don't know anybody who's not rooting for magneto

in that part where he's pushing a quarter to

a man's brain I don't know who's not rooting

for him after he squishes the head of two soldiers

after they shot his mother. I mean, that makes

me kind of go away from the villainy. But again,

I am in the minority in the situation. I know

many people that watch the X -Men cartoon. Oh,

he's a bad guy. You know, he's trying to think

over. I just see him more as a man. And I think

Fastman or even in the X -Men Apocalypse kind

of, even though I'm not a big fan of that movie,

nailed it for me where he after. Certain things

happen to his family. I won't spoil that kind

of marginal movie. He kind of screams at God,

is this what you want from me? It's like everything

keeps beating him down to make him do bad stuff.

It's not like he's doing bad stuff out of his

own volition. If I told you that an adult Jewish

man abused Adolf Hitler and killed his family,

does that make him not a villain? I'm just asking.

Matt, what do you think of Magneto? I guess it's

still as the lone Jew in this group or something.

What am I supposed to think about this? You're

the only one that can speak on this, Matthew.

I'm the only one that can say this. Well, I'll

plead the fifth on that for now. What do you

think of Magneto being a villain? I think it

all depends on what medium you're taking Magneto

from, I guess. If you're taking him from the

cartoon, I think you see him more as a pure villain

because he really does villainous things in the

cartoon. And the comic book is definitely more

shades of gray involved there because it's a

50 -year history of what you've seen and what

you get now. And then in the first -class movies,

you're getting this way more kind of complicated

character. You're seeing him literally from...

the concentration camps to, um, murder of his

mother in front of him and, you know, what, what

he becomes later on down the line. But, um, I

guess with him, there's such a capacity for good

and then there's such a capacity for evil, but

it's kind of all for the same reason in a way.

It's like, Because, I mean, what was the whole

– when he was created, it was supposed to be

Professor X, Martin Luther King, him, Malcolm

X, by any means necessary type thing. And that's

not necessarily a bad thing, but I think people

just perceive villainous – it's villainous acts

versus villainous intentions, I guess. And his

acts are pretty horrible. He's killed a lot of

people, but you would also say, like, they kind

of had it coming. I'm sorry. It's one of those

things where we get into this conversation in

the other episodes. Where do we put justifiable

murder in the villain kind of side of things?

If people have it coming, is he a villain? Is

he justified in doing that? Can we say, oh, he's

a good guy because he killed him? Still killed

a lot of people. It's complicated. Just a quick

question for you, and I'll give you the last

statement on this one since you had him the highest

rank. But did Batman see his parents shot right

in front of him or killed in any way? Because

he didn't. Once or twice. Because he didn't end

up murdering. hundreds and hundreds of people.

So I don't know. Zack Snyder said he'd murder.

Dan, Dan, I'm in agreement with you. I think,

I think Magneto is definitely worthy of being

mentioned today in the episode, but you could

speak better to any other rebuttal against these

guys. So I'll give you 10 or 20 seconds here.

I guess a good comparison is like if you look

at a lot of, you know, quote unquote warlords

that take over a country, you know, that may

end up with good intentions when they first take

that take over, say, like Fidel Castro, for example,

or something of that nature, who they're taking

over a regime that certainly did evil to many

people. But once they're in that regime themselves

and that power, they in turn tend to commit those

same crimes. And Magneto's proven that. So, yes,

there's legitimacy in what he's doing. And he

may have. intentions that are um good in some

instances but he's also shown that he will you

know he'll he'll do many of the things he accuses

others of and despite his his history so i think

you know in a way that's more evil knowing that

he's coming from this tragedy in that he would

evoke the same type of tragedy upon others is

pretty cruel um so All right, we'll have to wait

and see what people think about Magneto, the

first comic book character to show up today,

only the seventh overall. Maybe it's a Marvel

DC thing. Maybe some people are just more fans

of DC characters. Let's see, because we have

one of those next. At number 14, Lex Luthor.

Lex Luthor showing up at number 14 back -to -back

with Magneto, originated in the 1940s. DJ, let's

start with you. What do you think of Lex Luthor

being our eighth comic book character? Stop the

wedding. You can't marry this man. Wait, is there

an echo in here? I just said that. What's the

meaning of this? The meaning of this is, Luther,

you're through. We have all the evidence against

you we need. Evidence? Evidence for what? This

is a warrant for your arrest for arson and other

crimes too numerous to mention. You're out of

your minds, both of you. You have the right to

remain silent. You have the right to an attorney.

If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be...

Will you shut up? I can afford a thousand attorneys.

I'll have your badge. I'll have your head for

this. Get me the governor on the phone. Give

me the president! Get him on the phone! Hey,

too, Mrs. Cox. Ha -ha. Lois, I'm sorry. We'll

take a rain check. Something's come up. Let's

go, pal. You let go of me! Time to chat. I'll

just take my pound and flash it. top of the world

father said to me get out before that he said

son stocks may rise and fall utilities and transportation

systems may collapse people are no damn good

but they will always need land and they'll pay

through the nose to get it remember my father

said land right it's a pity that he didn't see

from such humble beginnings how i've created

this empire an empire this Mr. Smucker, how many

girls do you know who have a Park Avenue address

like this one? Park Avenue address? 200 feet

below? Do you realize what people are shelling

out up there for a few miserable rooms off a

common elevator? What more could anyone ask?

Lex Luthor is, his whole crux is he's pissed

because he thinks through all the shit that he

went through growing up. you know, becoming a

corporator. He's a genius. He's a philanthropist.

But for some freaking reason, mankind keeps worshiping

this alien from another freaking planet. So he

dedicates his life to exposing this assumed hypocrisy

of Superman. He goes so far as becoming the president

of the United States, ironically, to nullify

Superman's efforts to take him down. I mean,

this human man, many times, stops the strongest

comic book character perhaps of all time because

of his brain lex luther is a badass i mean not

jesse eisenberg clancy brown some people will

disagree with you i don't know who those people

are they're probably communists but whatever

uh lex luther is the epitome who kneecaps superman

lex luther out thinks the boy scout many many

times and i mean if you're gonna go with any

iteration injustice he just decimates the justice

league the guy is a badass he's essentially like

i can't even compare anybody to him and he kind

of sometimes you you want to root against him

but sometimes he has a point where he points

out that superman you're doing these things like

destroying metropolis while fighting your enemy

and uh you know maybe you you you're causing

more harm than good So, yeah, Lex Luthor is a

badass. And, again, when you have the most iconic

superhero of all time, and this is the arch nemesis

of that guy, I mean, you've got to have Lex Luthor

this high, I think. Just as a review real quick,

the comic book characters that appeared last

episode were the likes of Ozymandias, Loki, Thanos,

Darkseid, and Ra's al Ghul. Now, this episode,

we've seen Magneto and Lex Luthor. Are those

two in a higher echelon than the other five that

I just mentioned? I think just because of the

– I mean it's hard because Ra's al Ghul, of course,

his arch nemesis is Batman. But somebody else

is bigger than him. But Lex Luthor is kind of

like – to kind of reiterate what a lot of DJ

was saying. I mean he made a kryptonite suit.

He was like, get away from me. It was killing

him and he didn't care. Yeah, he didn't care.

He was still going to – he's like, I'm still

going to kill Superman. I'm dying, but I'm cool.

I'll still go after him. I'm going to destroy

Superman while I die. So – but yeah, and it depends

what iteration. I mean you have from Gene Hackman

to Clancy Brown to Jesse Eisenberg and – but

the Jesse Eisenberg thing, it's like – I think

DJ and I, we've gone to this debate where I –

and when I first saw the movie, I was like, I

didn't mind him. Like he was – what he was. He

was part Gene Hackman, part Riddler, whatever

the fuck he was going for at whatever point.

So it didn't bother me as much as it bothered

some other people. So it's kind of like whatever.

He just kind of loses his mind at the end. But

I don't know. Lex Luthor has always been just

that character that is always one step ahead

of Superman. And he's the only person besides

Batman, he's the only person who likes to call

Superman out on his shit. Everybody else is like,

oh, Superman, he's the best. Lex Luthor's like...

Fuck you, he's not. I'm sick of this guy. Look

at my city. I lost my hair, damn it. Look at

this suit. Steve, weigh in here on Lex Luthor

being a comic book character that you expected

to show up on the list. Oh, I definitely expected

him to show up on the list. I had him ranked

actually pretty close to right here. When I think

of Lex Luthor, I think of the DC Animated Universe

version, the Clancy Brown version, which was

cold, calculating, hated Superman with a passion

to the point that, you know, he created the suit.

He was willing to merge with Brainiac to take

him out. Just a majority of elements there. I

mean, he partnered with the Joker as crazy as

it was in one. one particular film just to try

and take out Superman and Batman ended up having

to come in and basically mop the floor with both

Lex Luthor and the Joker and it's just this character's

I don't count the Jesse Eisenberg version I think

that he's such a freaking pansy and that Don

of justice uh film i i won't say anything about

any other renditions that that may come up with

of him uh but i'm i'm not a fan of of him in

that particular film uh the clancy brown is what

i think of when i think of lex luthor and in

just the brains alone i mean he's i mean now

in the comics he's a good guy in the justice

league but Seems like everybody that's evil goes

good at some point, but unless they have razor

hands or something or shoot force lightning.

So, yeah, I mean, I definitely see him being

a strong contender for this list. I mean, he's

pretty much been the arch nemesis hating on illegal

aliens for, you know, 75 years. Dan, I'll give

you the final thought here. Disagree with how

high Lex Luthor is? Oh, none at all. And it's

interesting that he kind of comes back to back

with Magneto because Magneto does it more often.

But actually, there is a character that. will

be will turn to the good when necessary as steve

mentioned right now with it's kind of complicated

but when superman died but also came back from

a different dimension he kind of took up the

mantle of superman because in reality like lex

luther would be a hero if superman didn't exist

it's just the that that narcissist equality that

the jealousy that drives him to defeat Defeat

Superman. And one of my favorite actual versions

of him, it comes from like an elsewhere story

in Superman Red Son, where, you know, you have

Superman from Russia and Lex Luthor kind of is,

you see what would happen if, you know, Lex Luthor

basically was able to rule the US without the

interference of Batman. And you see the complexities

of the character that there's still some evil

qualities to him. But at the end of the day,

he just, he just wants. all the respect from

everyone and it not to get as long as he gets

that he's fine so if as long as you give him

everything he needs he won't bother you but give

him everything you will worship me and it's interesting

too because he's also a character that's been

he's changed throughout time he was originally

just kind of your generic mad scientist character

In the film, Superman, he kind of became more

of a James Bond -influenced character, then became

the businessman character to a politician. And

he's one that often reflected the time we're

in. And I think he's still, right now, they're

still trying to figure out what is the next stage

of him. So he's a character that's certainly

been able to evolve to different styles and different

interpretations and been effective in each one.

And he stole 40 cakes, by the way. There's a

little deep cut there for you guys. He stole

40 cakes. Well, he did take out Darkseid in the

Justice League Unlimited cartoon. Regardless

of what we say, there's going to be at least

one commenter that disagrees with Lex Luthor's

placement on this list. So we'll have to wait

and see for the reaction. That is a guaranteed.

And on that note, with our, with our back to

back comic book characters, we're going to take

a quick break here, a couple of ads. And when

we come back, there's only 13 spots left. We'll

start revealing them. Hello everyone. This is

JD from the in session film podcast. Each week

we review the latest from Hollywood, California.

Well, yes, Brendan, we also give top three lists.

Okay. Yeah. Thanks again, Brendan. Additionally,

you can hear us talk other movie news, trailers,

varying movie series, or other interesting film

-related topics, and even rants and raves of

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you can also hear our extra film podcasts. You

can listen to the In Session Film podcast on

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.com. Listen to the In Session Film podcast every

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no, no, no. That's not how this works, sir. On

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Continuing the excellence in ToonCasting here

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We did that, and the show was over. However,

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Join myself, TF2, and Mike, Optimus Solo, and

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Looking for a podcast that covers a vast array

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on the Geekcast Radio Network. All right, thanks

for sticking with us. There's only 13 spots remaining

in the countdown, so I know some people might

be getting nervous because you know that stat

that I gave you at the beginning that said that

80 % of the contributors had not seen their number

one yet? Still, 80 % of the contributors have

not seen their number one fall yet, so that is

a thing. Also, every character from here on out

is at least in one person's top five. So that

is a thing going forward. Another question. Let's

see if anybody can get it right. DJ, what's a

type of character that we have not seen yet today?

Literary. True, but not the answer I'm looking

for. I was right, guys. Somebody said animated.

We have not had an animated character today.

That ends with our number 13 pick. Interested

to see your guys' reaction here. We also hadn't

had a Disney character today. Let's end that

as well for Scar. shall never be king. And you

shall never see the light of another day. And

you... Didn't your mother ever tell you not to

play with your food? What do you want? I'm here

to announce that King Mufasa's on his way. So

you'd better have a good excuse for missing the

ceremony this morning. Now look, Zazu, you've

made me lose my lunch. You'll lose more than

that when the king gets through with you. He's

as mad as a hippo with a hernia. Ooh, I quiver

with fear. Now, Scar, don't look at me that way.

Help! Scar. Drop him. Impeccable timing, your

majesty. Why, if it isn't my big brother descending

from on high to mingle with the commoners. Sarabi

and I didn't see you at the presentation of Simba.

That was today? Oh, I feel simply awful. Must

have slipped my mind. Yes, well, as slippery

as your mind is, as the king's brother, you should

have been first in line. Well, I was first in

line until the little hairball was born. That

hairball is my son and your future king. Oh,

I shall practice my curtsy. Don't turn your back

on me, Scar. Oh, no, Mufasa. Perhaps you shouldn't

turn your back on me. Scar at number 13. I don't

think this should come as much of a surprise

because Lion King was all kinds of represented

when we did our top 100 actual just regular characters,

villainous hero, anybody. We had a ton of Lion

King characters. So now we have Scar at number

13. Steve, is he... Worthy of being amongst the

likes of Emperor Palpatine and Lex Luthor and

Michael Myers? Well, for the sake that, one,

it's a Disney character. Two, it's one that's

voiced by Jeremy Irons. Yep. Three, you have

the fact that he straight up murdered his brother

to banish his nephew so he could lead. that's

some cold -hearted crap for a kid's movie. Yeah,

that could be a valid point on all three of those

conditions. DJ, Scar, top 25 worthy? Yeah, I

mean, in terms of this movie essentially being

a kind of a remake of Hamlet, he is Claudius,

I believe, right? So, yeah, and on top of it,

Scar is just so... I mean, it is Jeremy Irons,

who is a badass. And ironically, a character

in a movie that he's in kind of gets his comeuppance

the exact same way Scar does that he uses in.

So, yeah, Scar is awesome. I like just the way

he. kind of manipulates that situation. But it's

sad because he does all that stuff to become

king and then shit, it's stuff that goes to shit.

He's not a good king. It's like, damn, I was

kind of awed. I thought he was going to have

a different kind of rule because when Commodus

becomes king, stuff kind of goes to shit, but

like Rome doesn't turn into a wasteland. So yeah,

Scar is awesome. And I mean, Lion King is...

most people's favorite Disney animated film of

all time. And if that's the case, like you're

saying, you're going to pick the villain out

of there. Another thing that helps Scar get this

high on the list is he was on 68 % of the list.

So everybody from here on out is on 60 % or more

except for one character. So there's only one

lower than that. 68 % of the list. Matthew, what

do you think of Scar showing up here in the top

25? One thing. He had a group of hyenas goose

-stepping like Nazis. See, only Matt can bring

this up. Not many characters can say they did

the same thing. Pretty impressive. No, but in

all seriousness, folks. In talking about a Disney

Angel character. But no, he's a cold -blooded

murderer. He throws his... he throws his uh it's

such an ironic twist usually you're going to

the lions the lion is thrown to the wilder beast

how about that too so um yeah he kills his brother

and then he blames it on his like nephew it's

like it's your fault it's like damn that's that's

that's some cold blooded shit right there um

and then he just yeah but then um His villainy

is villainous, but then he just doesn't do anything.

He's like, oh, my kingdom. I'm just going to

run it into the fucking ground. How many villains

do we have on this list that succeeded in their

mission as far as what they wanted and then just

totally sucked at it? Afterwards, it was kind

of like, oh. What do I do now, guys? I don't

know how to do this. I'm going to go. Another

interesting, I mean, obviously, again, it doesn't

hurt that Jeremy Irons is doing your voice as

far as villains go. But, Dan, if there was one

spot for a Disney character or one spot for an

animated character, not saying that there's not

more, but if there was only one spot for both

of those things, is Scar the most deserving to

take that spot? I don't. Oh, man, I feel like

I've been super negative. I don't like her. For

the spoiler alert, this is the one character

that I was talking about that Dan doesn't have

on his list. So the rest are on his list. To

clarify, I think, you know, I would rank Lion

King as the best Disney movie. When we did our

animated countdown, it was, like, number two

on my list. So I think it's a great film. I think

he's a great character. You're talking about,

you know, the greatest villains of all time.

And just looking at, like, the, you know, the

gamut of... villains from the disney world i

guess killing puppies to me is just more evil

even i mean i guess yeah killing your brother's

pretty bad i'm not true true but i guess like

at least coral deville when she killed the puppy

she did something with them i mean like yeah

waste that whatnot waste that whatnot i always

i mean like So I don't know. So I think Scar

is certainly a good character, but I don't know

if I would. Top 50, sure, but I don't necessarily

think I would put him this high. I think Michael

Myers is much more of a villain. So I would even

say Emperor Palpatine. but I'm really surprised

by Scar being up this high. That really kind

of shocks me. I guess it makes sense because

Jafar was up really high too, so we do love our

90s here. And our Disney characters, so that

does help. Like I said, I'm not surprised just

because of how many characters we had from The

Lion King show up on the last list, even though

this is a different contributors list that was

supplying our votes here. I'm somewhat surprised

that it was this high, but I'm not surprised

that it's the highest Disney villain because

I think a lot of people do go to Scar above...

You know, Maleficent, Cruella de Vil, Jafar,

even though everybody has their personal favorites.

So interesting to see Scar here at number 13

for sure. On 64 % of the list is our number 12

pick, and I can't wait to hear the discussion

or the rant that DJ may go on with this one.

Just a preemptive strike maybe as to subdue any

commenters from their opinions. Let's go to number

12 from a film from 1988. How do you not have

a list with multiple Alan Rickman characters?

Let's go with Hans Gruber from Die Hard. DJ,

start us off. All of you relax. This is a matter

of inconvenient timing. That's all. Police action

was inevitable. And as it happens, it's necessary.

So let them fumble about outside and stay calm.

This is simply the beginning. I thought I told

all of you I want radio silence until further...

Oh, I'm very sorry, Hans. I didn't get that message.

Maybe you should have put it on the bulletin

board. But I figured since I've waxed Tony and

Marco and his friend here, I figured you and

Carl and Franco might be a little lonely, so

I wanted to give you a call. How does he know

so much about this? This is very kind of you.

As if you are our mysterious party crusher. You

are most troublesome. For a security guard. Sorry,

Hans, wrong guess. Would you like to go for double

jeopardy where the scores can really change?

Oh, these are very bad for you. Who are you,

then? Just a fly in the ointment, Hans. The monkey

in the wrench. The pain in the ass. Check on

all the others. Don't use the radio. See if he's

lying about Marco and find out if anyone else

is missing. Mr. Mystery Guest. Are you still

there? Yeah, I'm still here. Unless you want

to open the front door for me. I'm afraid not.

But you have me at a loss. You know my name,

but who are you? Hans Gruber. For a certain person

that doesn't think Hans Gruber is a villain or

good or relevant, Hans Gruber is essentially

Danny Ocean if he killed people, okay? He's an

exceptional thief, and he's such a great character.

They had to give him murder. They had to change

scenes and make him kill people because in test

audiences, people loved him. They loved him.

We got to make him even more villainous. And

just the fact that... You got John McClane, one

of the greatest heroes of all time. His antithesis,

where you're almost, it's like the cat and mouse

game they're playing. Alan Rickman, this is like,

I think this is his first American movie. It's

like the best fucking role he's ever had in his

life. And the specter of Alan Rickman's character,

Hans Gruber, even carries over to Die Hard with

a vengeance, where they had to get Star to play

his brother. Back to back. Back to back. Alan

Rickman, I keep calling him Alan Rickman because

that's what I just, I don't look at, what's his

name? Snape? It's, Alan Rickman to me will always

be Hans effing Gruber. I mean, this is a villain

that, I mean, murder is almost like a thing he

does to get his, it's not even like, it's not

even registered to him. People, in most movies,

the villain of that film would have been Carl.

But Carl's just a tool for Hans Gruber to shoot

the glass. He doesn't really give a shit about

people or the FBI or John's heroics. He just

wants his 30 percent. on the beach. That's all

he cares about. And he's so fucking entertaining.

He's so diabolical and smart. He figures out

that fucking Holly Gennaro is married to John

McClane by just using the sixth sense he has.

Hans Gruber's awesome. If anybody has a problem

with Hans Gruber, I live in Pembroke Pines, Florida.

You can drive your fucking ass in a car, a plane.

Come meet me and we'll have a long, thorough

conversation about how you're fucking wrong.

Hans Gruber is the shit. I don't know. That might

be the most impassioned defense of a character

that we've seen so far. Hans Gruber isn't relevant.

I don't want to go there. I have nothing to add

to that. That was awesome. Also, just for the

sake of me pointing it out, the first character

today that has been on somebody's number one,

this was Kevin Wrightstuff's number one pick.

So that's the first one of those to fall. So

76 % of the number ones remain to drop on this

list. Also, everybody from this character on

out. is in somebody's top three, except for one.

So we're getting more and more close to the big

numbers here. Dan, any comments on Hans Gruber,

or did DJ sum it up? I would say the one thing

that might go against him is the fact that he

does kill an 80s yuppie character, which almost

makes him a hero. There will not be a fall. Which

I could see why, like, when you did the test

audiences, they were like, yeah. I'm kind of

rooting for that guy. He's probably one of the

first villains that I probably ever fell in love

with as a character, watching Die Hard. And Die

Hard doesn't become the action film that it is

without a villain like Hans Gruber working the

way he does. It's what set it apart from other

80s action films that just really had... Think

of Commando. Who's the villain of Commando? Most

people can't answer that question. Bennett! And

you have to say it in that way to make it a villain.

Bennett! Awesome Steve Bennett. Alright, let's

move on to our number 11 pick. The only pick

in this top 13 that's not in at least 60 % of

the list. He's only appeared on 56 % of the count

of the contributors list. So why is he here?

Because 28 % of contributors had him in the top

10. 28 % of people had him in the top 10. We're

going to another comic book character. Number

11, Doctor Doom. Dr. Doom. Matthew, start us

off. Why is Dr. Doom more worthy than Lex Luthor

and Magneto? Well, DJ and I were talking about

this during the break. Should I tell them about

the Luke Cage story? Yeah, go ahead. I think

it makes Luke Cage sound like the villain, to

be honest with you. It's true. I'll bury the

lead for the time being. Well, he's the dictator

of his own country. He was Sorcerer Supreme at

some point. He's got a badass mask. He is the

arch nemesis of probably one of the most iconic

superhero team in all of comic book history.

He's got a dope green coat or cloak, should I

say. He's got an army of Doombots. Damn, what

am I missing here? Yeah, he's a badass motherfucker.

That's what he is. There really isn't much else

to say about Doctor Doom. He's a despot. Doctor

Doom! He's got a PhD in Doom. PhD in Doom. That's

what he is right there. Dan, is this the upper

echelon that we're talking about here? Is this

the top of the cream of the crop of the comic

book villains? Yeah, if you're doing a Matt Rushmore

of... Did you say DJ or Dan? I'm sorry. Dan.

If you do a Matt Rushmore of comic book villains,

I certainly think he's on it, especially because

it would look badass if his face was on a mountain.

And I think he would be all for that. And what's

interesting about Dr. Doom, too, is that he isn't

necessarily like the most tasked troller that

you would think he would be being called Dr.

Doom. Unlike Scar, the country he runs is effective.

In most interpretations, the people that he is

dictator of love him because he truly, in a way,

has an affection towards them, even if he's not

showing it in the way you would expect. It's

more so because he wants to prove he can do it.

There's been stories, for example, where he's

legitimately taken over the world, and he ended

up just basically giving it back because he found...

doing you know paperwork was not nearly as interesting

as trying to beat the avengers and you know he's

actually there was the you know the most recent

secret war story where legitimately he controlled

all the multi -universes he was basically the

god among gods uh but he you know was able to

um come out of that and so i always find him

a very intriguing character because he can outsmart

gods he can take the power of silver surfer who

is a cosmic being now a trillion times more powerful

than he ever can but he's just so intelligent

and he's also got a really great relationship

with uh mr fantastic as well in their in their

dynamic so there's there's a little bit of lex

luther and and the way that they portray each

other but I think Doom isn't necessarily looking

for affection. He's just the ultimate narcissist.

One of my favorite moments in comics is actually

when he meets with Black Panther, and Black Panther

is able to tell that... the bot that he sends

out is in doom because it wasn't perspiring.

Like you would, if you have the mask on and he's

like, Oh, I see that my perfection has gotten

away from me. Just like yet again, my, I have

to build perfect robots. That's the only reason

that you, you're able to see it. Like he, he

can't admit that like he basically he's in, he

can't admit that he's wrong basically. And it's

always funny, kind of fascinating as, as a character.

So. All right. DJ, just missing out on being

in the top 10. What do you think of Dr. Doom's

placement here at number 11? Oh, man. Okay. Dan

is bringing up some great moments. And I remember

a couple, other than the fact that the guy has

touched the Infinity Gauntlet and taken a blast

from it and lived. There was a moment in Amazing

Spider -Man. I forget. Eric Larson drew it. I

forget what number. And Dr. Doom had an embassy.

Now, listen to this. A villain has an embassy

in America and a character that Spider -Man was

protecting stole a jewel that belonged to Latveria,

his country. And Dr. Doom shows up and literally,

like, Spider -Man's trying to get in between

Dr. Doom and this thief because Dr. Doom is going

to fucking kill him. But Spider -Man's like,

no, no, no, don't do it. And Dr. Doom literally...

Not even trying, beats the living shit out of

Spider -Man. My hero, one of my favorite comic

book characters, beats the shit out of him for

four straight pages. So I'm like, what? Spider

-Man's trying to explain to Doctor Doom, please,

please, I'll get the jewel back, I'll be fine.

And Doctor Doom goes, you have three days. So

for the rest of the comic book, they have a timer

on each panel telling you how long Spider -Man

has to find the jewel. And on the last page,

it gets to zero. And Doom shows up on the last

panel and says, where's my jewel? And whips the

shit out of everybody. That's Doctor Doom in

a nutshell. Doctor Doom is a badass, okay? And

on top of the fact that he is... done so much

horrible thing the fact that he's dealing with

black panther and i think he took over vibe he

tried to take over the vibranium black panther

had to nullify all the vibranium in wakanda so

dr doom couldn't take it over he is a badass

and matt is right he's gone against the the first

family comic book group the fantastic four and

defeated him many times like whatever Reed Richards,

whatever. I got you. Thanos? Sure. Mephisto?

Whatever. Doctor Strange? I'll take your title.

I mean, the guy is a badass. Dan's right. If

there is a Mount Rushmore, I can't think of a

bigger villain in terms of accomplishment, villainy,

character than Doctor Doom. Interesting, too,

that I'm going to read off the rankings for this

one because I think it's interesting that it's

a very short range as far as where people put

him. And, again, second character back -to -back

that appeared in somebody's number one. Fridley

Scent from the Cinema Geeks had him at number

one. We had a 2, 4, 4, 6, 6, 7, 8. 15 21 22 28

28 and the highest anybody put him was or the

lowest anybody put him was 37 so everybody you

know that voted for him voted for him rather

high any last thought on dr doom before we move

on to our top 10 i think what might hurt him

for some people is the fact that when he's been

in film it's been depicted so poorly no one's

got come close to getting it right That might

be like people, oh, Dr. Doom, he's an awful character,

and I could see that if you watch Fantastic Four,

any of them, movie -wise, why you would think

that. But one day, hopefully, they'll get it

right. One day. One day. It still doesn't seem

like it affected him too much if his rankings

were so high. I mean, maybe that one, maybe Julian

McMahon was number 37. Credit to the contributors

of being able to see past those movie depictions

and see the comic books and the cartoons. The

movie depictions are horrid, but that's just

hands down the only thing going against him.

He's pretty solid in the fact that he was one

of the only villains to make it to the 2099 universe,

which even though that was bad, he was one of

the few to make it. He's deserving. All right,

just a quick update before we start revealing

our top 10. We have had one character from the

2000s so far today and zero characters pre -1900.

Let's start with our top ten here. Our first

character of the entire countdown that appeared

on Two People's, number one. We are going to

go to a character that originated in a 1968 film,

and that would be Hal 9000, our first entry into

the top ten. Hal 9000. Dan, top ten worthy? Oh,

yeah, 100%. I mean, it's interesting to consider

the fact that how 9 ,000 is a character, that

screen time is probably rather limited compared

to many other film characters that we've talked

about. But, you know, it's 2001. Just the slow

buildup of that character, what it represents,

and the small little hints you see in the turning

point of Hal and what it means. You can write

a thesis, I think, on just what Hal, why he does

what he does, what the film gives you to determine

why is Hal becoming this. turning on man in the

way he does. There's this opening sequence where

they're playing chess and he makes a wrong move,

which seems out of character, but it's kind of

an early sign that something is not clicking

the way it should. Also, just that voice or recording

or whatever you want to call it, just the coldness

of it. I won't open the podway doors. It's probably,

if you're looking at characters like the Terminator

and things like that, No doubt they were directly

influenced by someone like Hal. All you need

to know is I cannot stand that film, and I still

have Hal 9000 in my top five. So I still put

Hal 9000 in my top five, but I also have Big

Brother in my top ten. So maybe it's just something

about that type of character that kind of just

takes control or is always watching and that

type of stuff that I think is very villainous.

But number one for pop culture case study, number

one for following films. DJ, did we get Hal 9000

right as far as being in the top ten? I think

he might be a little high, but I mean, I'm not

angry about it. I can understand him being here.

I think I would have had him a little bit lower.

But I mean, when Dan was talking about that chess

match, I've read articles. That's because you

get as many articles about that character as

a tribute to how great he is as a villain, is

that the chess match, he might have lost on purpose

just to test the humans. I've read articles about

that. The fact that he's essentially brought

about by... uh a contradiction the only the mission

is is going contradictory to something else that

they programmed in them makes them into this

uh i have to get rid of the humans dave i that

thing is it's in the soothingness of his voice

when i hear brainiac on the superman the animated

series the way i forget the actor who does him

uh who i think he's passed away now uh it always

harkens me it makes me automatically think of

how 9000 and the The lip -reading scene, the

stuff that he does in the movie, and the daisy,

all that stuff. He is very recognizable, and

the moments he has are going to, I mean, I don't

want to say iconic, but they are pretty iconic.

Steve, any thoughts on Hale 9000 appearing right

here? I don't particularly care for the movie,

but that's one of the iconic film villains of...

the last like 50 years so it's it's very deserving

of being on this list i mean i had it on my list

even though it's not one uh film i'm very fond

of but it's still um very iconic yeah and i think

just the type of villain it is and kind of the

power that he holds and kind of the way that

it's something you hadn't really seen in film

at that point i don't think uh matt what do you

think of hell 9000 uh i like him right here because

it's it's such a simplistic like it's ai but

it's just a red dot you know and it's like how

much power like one red dot has over the fate

of like all these people on the spacecraft it's

just kind of one of those amazing things how

much you can do with just a soothing voice a

red dot and basically just you know ai of course

you know we we're always afraid of like ai running

amok and becoming smarter than humans and everything

that's i think it's probably one of our greatest

fears is like something that we create turns

against us it's kind of the same thing with like

you know uh frankenstein and the monster it kind

of you create something you're like oh this is

pure and this is going to help everybody and

then it's like Somewhere along the lines of a

wire is not correct or a protocol wasn't put

in correct and you're left at the mercy of something

that is a program. And the program has been written

by something you don't understand almost yourself.

So it's scary. It's scary that we kind of live

in that kind of day like this time now where

we're so reliant on technology, where Kubrick

and the book before that was kind of like. Yeah,

this is going to happen one day. You guys are

going to be fucked. So it's just a scary kind

of look into like how the future is. It hasn't

happened so bad yet, but, you know, it could

happen. Give it time. Yeah, give it time. Interesting,

too, the kinds of villains that we've seen so

far. You know, we've had those more beast animal,

like instinctual ones. We've had some more technological

ones, some more just downright evil, like as

far as killing people type one. So a lot of different

types showing up here. DJ, should people that

were holding out hope that GLaDOS would appear

in the countdown give up at this point? Yeah,

give up. Sorry. The cake was a lie. Sorry. Another

thing that we've seen so far in this episode,

we've seen a few big franchises represented.

We've seen Alien and Star Wars and Terminator

all show up with representation here. We're going

to get two of those back -to -back, two big franchises

back -to -back, and I'm interested to see what

your guys' reactions to that would be. We're

in the 1 ,250 -point range. This next character,

72 % of the contributors had this individual.

on their list i am surprised that it was that

high 72 we're going to go to the world of star

trek not star wars star trek for khan i knew

so khan at number nine seventy two percent of

people found a way i didn't think there was that

much universal love for star trek i had khan

obviously because i'm a huge trek fan but i didn't

think it would be that high 72 steve what do

you think of khan showing up here in the top

10. I think he's very deserving of it, being

that I had him in my top five. And this is going

with the Ricardo Montalban version, not the Benedict

Cumberbatch Crybaby Fest. We have the real con

where he's taken command of a starship and then

stuck on CD Alpha 5 where most of his... comrades

are killed by the environment because of the

planet or the star exploding but um yes getting

my trek history out there but uh uh but no i

mean khan is just this ruthless overarching dick

in like the star trek universe that that kirk

was like you know i should have killed this guy

years ago and it's coming back to haunting me

now and it's just it's humorous just to see um

The fact that this guy that just tears up the

Enterprise, manages to kill Spock, sets off the

Genesis weapon, just a chain reaction of bad

decision -making on Kirk's behalf is attacking

him. And this one character from the original

series. Absolutely. Definitely one of the most

iconic Star Trek villains. One thing, though,

about this one is, unlike what I read off for

Doctor Doom, where everybody was 1 through 37,

we were all over the board when it came to Khan.

70s, 50s, 30s, 20s, top 10, 40s, 60s, everywhere,

people had Khan all over the map. DJ, is he deserving

of being in the top 10? Save us the name of the

captain. Of course! It's Khan, man. It's Khan.

It's a Khan man. It's a Khan man. This is it.

I mean, come on. There's no, in the entire William

Shatner series, the original Generation series,

Khan is it. He is, it's him and Wales. That's

it. I mean, maybe Christopher Palmer a little

bit, but it's Khan. And the fact that he, and

Wales. But that's the fact, I mean. And I'm in

the minority. I'm not against the whole Benedict

Cumberbatch thing. But, I mean, Ricardo Montalban

is the superior Khan. But Khan is so good. He's

Shakespearean. He's got Moby Dick on a bookcase,

picking another villain, because he's stuck on

revenge. He wants revenge to avenge my loved

one, my wife. That stuff is so good. And he's

not even in a scene with Kirk. And it feels like

they have there are many scenes with them together

and they're never together in the whole movie

ever. But every line he has is almost like it's

like poetry. And the way he kind of essentially

wins, he gets his revenge on Kirk by taking out

the thing. I will do more than just kill you.

i will hurt you this is so he's so good he's

so he's such i think of all the star trek characters

of all time he's always going to be my favorite

because i he comes from a place of understanding

i understand where he's coming from though he

his his his character on the tv show is a little

bit different But I think in the movie, you kind

of feel for him. His wife died. Why didn't Kirk

go check on him? He didn't bother to check on

Progress. Why? Why didn't he go and do something?

He just put this big black book in there like,

hey, you're not allowed to go to this planet.

Thanks, Kirk. Dan, real quick, curious if you

might be on the other side of the coin here and

thinking this might be a little too high, or

is this something where, like we saw with Doctor

Who, where if you have kind of a fan favorite

or a cult following for a certain franchise,

where the best villain in that franchise is going

to be vaulted a little bit higher on this list?

I think it's a good placement. I mean, I am not

a Star Trek expert. I've only seen Star Trek

II once. But if you're asking people, like myself,

who's not well -versed in Star Trek or really

anyone, when they think of Star Trek villains,

it's going to be Connor, science fiction villains

in general. Obviously, much of that is due to

the iconic line from Shatner. Perhaps his career

best acting moment. So, and like he also, again,

I keep looking at a character that does succeed

and in a way and how his actions do lead to such

a, such a touching moment in Star Trek too. So

I do think he's worthy for this list because

I know Star Trek doesn't have, I mean, it has

some great villains, but it's one that certainly.

stood the test of time so much so that they tried

to recreate it in a way. So I think it's definitely

a good placement. I can't really argue against

it. Not that I want to, but... Matt, what do

you think as far as is Khan more worthy than

the Borg as far as being higher on the list?

I think just for... People know Khan. You say

the name Khan, and people are like, oh, yeah,

I know Khan. Even if you've never even seen Star

Trek, you're like, oh, yeah, that guy that killed

Spock, right? It's like, oh, yeah, it's that

guy. So even just the Borg is a little bit more

of a deeper cut, I think. I mean, it's the Borg.

I almost said the Barge, actually. That was a

mistake. The Barge, he's a villain. It's like

the Borg is more of a bigger threat to this.

kind of all in like it's such a big thing whereas

Khan is basically just like it's it's Kirk's

Joker you know in a way it's his is like but

it's also something that Kirk created so Kirk

could have well done, did the right thing and

let Khan like not have all the bad shit happen

to him. And there wouldn't have been, you know,

uh, uh, repent or wrath of Khan or anything like

that. But, um, at the end of the day, it's like,

just out of all the Star Trek villains, I can't

think of anybody science fiction in general to

just that name is such a, just a name that, and

the look is iconic Ricardo Montalban's look.

It's so. It's so goofy, but at the same time,

it's like, this guy's got style. I like that

hair, man. He's like a science fiction Mad Max

villain type thing. Absolutely. So at this point

still, 64 % of contributors have not seen their

number one fall yet, and we're down to our top

eight. I said back -to -back franchise picks,

and here's going to be another one. Appeared

on 68 % of the list, and 24 % of contributors

had this character in their top ten. I'd be a

little upset because this was her number two

pick. We're going to go to the world of Harry

Potter and Voldemort for our number eight pick.

I said the name. You're damn right. All right.

Voldemort here at number eight. Dan, we'll start

with you here. Harry Potter's first representation

here. There's a lot of villains in Harry Potter.

Is this the most worthy one, obviously, of being

on the list? It's tough because I feel like a

lot of people. In a way, maybe it's more memorable

when the villain isn't necessarily a villain

at the end. But I do, I love Voldemort as a character.

You have such a huge buildup to him, a few books

worthy, a few movies worthy to him actually coming

on the scene. And I know a lot of people, and

I think it was even happening in some of the

comment sections and Facebook matchups we had,

would always make the comment that it can't be

that effective of a villain when he can't even

take over a school. And I get that, but I think

ultimately, obviously, you're dealing with a

children's book. I just find him so conniving,

and he does feel like a threat. They built it

up so well when he actually does come. out and

uh you see him for the first time like because

i saw the films before i read the books i was

just it was such a satisfying thing and refines

his performance it's fantastic like the cackling

there's um there's such a like uh they're almost

uh such a humor to him as well it's in this the

look like sneak like look i i don't know i find

him uh i know uh much more of an impressive villain

than I expected for a series like Harry Potter.

I know it gets kind of weird when you're looking

at some of the, you know, when you look at his

final demise and the weirdness with the wands

and whatnot and all the magic behind him. But

yeah, I think he's certainly deserving. He might

be up. little too high. I could see that, but

there are certainly plenty of Harry Potter fans

out there. Steve, does it get any more villainous

than combining a wizard and a snake into one

character? Meh. I think that there were better

villains than him for the top 10. I mean, I agree

he should be at the top 100, but I don't know

top 10. Um, yes, he's, he's one of the, uh, a

part of the, the rabid Harry Potter fan base,

but, uh, the same token, it keeps getting beaten

by a child and, um, he has his lackeys and he's

gotten his, his basically forced lightning back

to himself and, and he has to live as a, uh,

a wart on different people. for a number of years

that he can occasionally lean over and do the

almost Men in Black 2 thing with Johnny Knoxville,

like talking to the person that's hosting him.

Okay, so Steve's not going to be friending any

Harry Potter fans, clearly, in this discussion.

DJ, what do you think of Voldemort? He might

not want to come to me because I hate him. I'm

not a Harry Potter fan either. No, but I mean,

not being a Harry Potter fan, I don't care about

that stupid kid. But Voldemort, I know how iconic

and important he is. I mean, taking everything

away in a vacuum, his look is great. Just as

a scary, almost too scary for a kids movie villain.

You know, like you guys were saying, it gets

confusing in the plot, and I don't really give

a shit about, you know... Tom Riddle, all that

stuff. I don't really care. But again, I cannot

be a fan of Harry Potter in Voldemort, but still

respect the fact that he's on there. I understand

him being on there because Harry Potter is not

no fringe franchise. It's one of the biggest

franchises of all time, and he is the Sauron

of that franchise. So I understand him being

here. Only four of the people that voted for

him did not have him in the top 30. A lot of

people had him in the top 11, 12, somewhere in

that range. Matt, last word on Voldemort. Is

he worthy of being mentioned today? Not today.

I mean there's far – in the Harry Potter universe,

which I'm not even a fan of, but there are, in

my opinion, better villains. I mean Dolores Umbridge

is probably scarier just in terms of like a person.

You're like, damn, this bitch could run my school.

This is bad. This is horrible. And she was an

awful person to kids, like doing – like this

guy's got magic and stuff. She's got magic too,

but it's like – torturing kids because you don't

tell them the truth it's like very like kind

of like a trunchbull kind of ass but like trunchbull

with magic a little bit um but yeah the look

is great uh but you can argue like bellatrix

was strange it's probably more evil than him

she killed like probably one of the more beloved

characters in that entire series as well too

uh but yeah i mean i don't know Like you said,

DJ, he's like the Sauron of the entire series.

I mean, Ralph Fiennes is great, and I love the

look. I love his very snake voice and stuff like

that. But overall, I mean, there's villains I

would put above him in that universe alone, but

he is the big bad. He's the, as Dan's put it

earlier, the end boss to everything. You got

to put the end boss in there. Programming note,

anybody with a problem with the conversation

on Voldemort, please direct your responses to

Simplistic Reviews and Steve. Come at me, bro.

Come at us. Come at me, bro. Avada Kedavra, bitch.

All right. Let's move on to our number seven

pick. Still have 64 % of people's number ones

that have not been mentioned, and that's going

to continue because no number one here. Number

seven from the novel from 1959. maybe better

known in the film norman bates 76 that's the

highest we've gotten so far 76 of people voted

for norman bates dj more positive on him showing

up in the top 10 yeah i almost forgot about him

but as soon as you said i was like oh shit of

course norman fucking bates he's he's i mean

that we've been battling around the word iconic

but i mean in cinema history and maybe the history

of anything that's been in entertainment that

shower scene is it's not rivaled by anything

i mean come on i mean though as a character norman

base is almost like a victim that has his mind

is warped by his mother that turns him into this

thing but yeah norman i mean which is funny because

i think in the sequel he's a good guy which is

weird But, no, but, I mean, Norman Bates, you

say the name, Psycho is one of the greatest horror

films of all time. Norman Bates has to be on

this list. I didn't even think about it until

you said it, and I was like, man, why did I leave

a blank spot for him? He has to be here. Only

three people had him in the top ten, which is

where he ends up. So how did he get here? Because

of 76 % of people voting for him. So a lot of

universal, at least, recognition that he deserves

to be on this list somewhere. Dan, a lot of people

said Voldemort at number eight is too high. Is

number seven too high for Norman Bates? No, I

don't think so at all. you think about it at

the time just the edginess is maybe not the right

word but the fact that you had had a character

of that nature and you know just the the dark

places he goes i mean beyond just the murderer

the relationship with his mother or if you want

to even call it that it's just the insanity of

that character it's so just disturbing and um

it's And, of course, we're all talking about

the Vince Vaughn version, right? That's what

I'm assuming. Yeah, of course. The only version.

The only version. Yeah. But I think it's a type

of personality that we've seen tried to be replicated

many times after that. But it's just, I don't

know. We talk about a lot in this when it comes

to villains that scare you. And I think it's

hard not to be scared. the person that you're

kind of trusting. And I think it makes you kind

of worried. Anyone who's ever went to like a

hotel that they didn't really want to stay at

but got forced to, you know that you're like,

you're worried about, you know, having a Norman

Bates type of experience or something of that

nature. But yeah, I think he's certainly one

of the most important characters in all of Hitchcock's

history as a filmmaker. And considering Hitchcock

is one of the greatest filmmakers of all time,

I think it makes him eligible, top five worthy,

top 10 worthy for sure. All right, so that is

Norman Bates at our number seven pick. There

is 16 contributors that have not seen their number

one fall yet, and there's only six spots left.

Number six, we're up to the 1 ,377 point range.

This character was on 64 % of the list, and it

is our first character today that predates 1900.

Number six. One person on the panel is number

one. Count Dracula. Dan, your number one pick.

Are you upset that he's not higher, or is top

ten good enough for you? I think top ten is good

enough for me. It was honestly really hard. deciding

who I was going to put as my number one, just

because there's so many great villains. I think

the reason I put Dracula as my number one was

because you look at characters that have stood

the test of time, there's not many that have.

done it to the level of a character like Dracula.

There's been so many interpretations. There's

characters that have been replicated, but he

kind of has a whole genre, a whole type of story

that is based on Dracula. Everything from Nosferatu

to all the vampire movies we get today is because

of a character like Dracula working. And it's

timeless. A lot of the lore that's built around

him, all the little aspects of his character

kind of has informed much of that going forward.

And it's kind of interesting when you look at

why did that character exist? Where does he come

from? Does it get into our fear of death? Does

it get into the idea of immortality in the way

that it impacts us? So I think all those elements

made him... made me want to put him as my number

one character because it's it's hard to have

a resume that stacks up against someone like

dracula where there may be probably more entertaining

um villains and there's been a lot of bad versions

of dracula as well um you know there's been interpretations

where he's linked i think it was a track of 2000

made him into uh you know he was actually judas

and and that's why he had so many issues with

the cross and um how silver would impact him

and stuff like that so there's been like All

different ways to kind of go at him and his mythology.

But, yeah, I'm happy that he's here. Were you

worried that your number one wasn't going to

be the same? I was a little concerned because,

like I said, there's been so many bad versions

of the character, and he's been, you know, parodied

so much it's hard to even view him as a villain

anymore because it's really kind of hard to take

him seriously. I could see that because, you

know, vampires are not what they once were. If

you go back and watch, like, Bill Svirato, still

today that interpretation freaks the hell out

of me. 36 % of people that voted had him in the

top 10, so a lot of agreement there. DJ, does

being played by the likes of Bela Lugosi and

Christopher Lee help his criteria there? Sure.

I was hoping that. I mean, he's not as villainous

as Edward Cullen. No, I'm just playing. I think

that the fact that he's such an – Dan has, I

think, hit the nail on the head because there's

so many interpretations of the character. I mean,

Sean Astin is dressed like Dracula. It's the

number one costume in Stranger Things Season

2. I mean, it's the number one Halloween costume

probably of all time. He's kind of lost some

of the scariness to him, but I think when he

first – Nosferatu first came out, even Bram Stoker's

Dracula, he was a lot more scary, like, you know,

and the creature of the night. But now it's...

I think in terms of millennials, Matthew. Only

me? Come on. Yeah, only you. I know how much

you love millennials. They don't look at Dracula

as scary. But, I mean, back when Dracula hit

the scene, he was frightening. He was a thing

of nightmares. But I just think time is kind

of wearing on his. villainy a bit but i mean

again i had no problem with him being as high

because he is the name he that dracula find somebody

who doesn't know who dracula is find somebody

go ahead that's true steve any thoughts on dracula

no he's definitely deserving of this list matt

agree Yeah, I'm on board. And just knowing what

he's based off of, you know, Vlad the Impaler

and things like that. Just talk about a real

historical villain right there, too. So and this

is iconic. The bell goes, hear them creatures

of the night. It's it's it's over the top. But

at the same time, it's unnerving what he did.

And then if you look at Nosferatu with Count

Orlok and stuff like that, just the look of like

that vampire. And then the movie's silent. And

it's just like him looking up from the bed after

he feasted on the woman and everything like that.

It's like, ah! It's like that's nightmare fuel

right there. And like you guys have said, it's

something that stood the test of time for over

100 years at this point. And it's still being

used to this day. So kudos. Time for our top

five. And our number five pick has a lot in common

with our number six pick that we just talked

about. They both appeared on 64 % of the contributors

list. Also, they both appeared on 36 % of contributors

top 10. They also both predate the 1900s. So

we have Count Dracula at six. And at number five,

we have Professor Moriarty from Sherlock Holmes

and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. So Professor Moriarty

just beating out Count Dracula, even though a

lot of their numbers were very similar, just

edged him out by about... 12 points um so very

very small margin here that moriarty beats dracula

dj we'll start with you what do you think of

professor moriarty um being in the top five it's

it's fitting i mean sherlock holmes could arguably

be the first superhero and his number one arch

nemesis is this guy professor moriarty who's

who can outthink sherlock holmes I mean, Sherlock

Holmes, his name is synonymous. Well, you're

smart. We use him as Sherlock Holmes. And this

guy's out thinking that guy. So, yeah, I mean,

Professor Moriarty, I think the word diabolical

was written with that word came up with him in

mind. He just does everything he can. Sometimes.

Just to fuck with Sherlock Holmes. And it's funny

because I'm probably the minority. The Guy Ritchie

Sherlock Holmes, I really loved what Jared Harris

did with Moriarty. I'm more of a fan of Jared

Harris' interpretation of Moriarty than I forget

the name of the actor who played him in the Benedict

Cumberbatch version. Though it's a different,

more updated version. It's just... Jared Harris,

it's almost like Sherlock Holmes is not even

like a challenger. He's just like a gnat, like

a nuisance. Like, oh, I got to get rid of this

super genius. So Moriarty, I think, needs to

be on here just because a lot of villains, when

it comes to, like, Lex Luthor and Doctor Doom,

diabolical, you know, mustache twirlers and stuff

like that, I think owe a lot. to Moriarty. I

think... People like the idea of seeing the ying

to somebody's yang. It's like when you have the

most virtuous of somebody, like a really, really

good guy, but then you have somebody who's on

his polar opposite, but who's just as smart,

almost just as powerful, but just has the complete

opposite intentions all the time. I think that

really draws a lot of people into seeing the

virtuous of the virtuous and the most evil of

evil. And I think we're going to see down in

the next four. picks somebody very uh comparable

to Moriarty as well but yeah uh to DJ's point

the Jared Harris version I'm not even the biggest

fan of Sherlock Holmes the Guy Ritchie one uh

DJ sorry but uh it's like I like I like Jared

Harris though I think he's a great actor and

yeah he's he just seems bothered he's like Robert

Downey Jr. you're exhausting me can you just

stop cut the shit dude like I'm I'm over this

right now um and to see like it's still Back

-to -back characters that have stood the test

of time, and to your point, Kev, he wasn't in

a lot of books, but he's almost like Blofeld,

too. He's always kind of in the back. His machinations,

almost like Palpatine in a lot of ways. He sets

up all these little things that are behind the

scenes, but then he comes out and he's like,

got you, bitch. I love that in the character.

Steve, is Moriarty top ten worthy? Definitely.

One of my main introductions to the character

was not only the Guy Ritchie movie with Robert

Downey Jr. in it, but where he was just... I

loved how they bantered and the portrayal of

the character in that and how he was out thinking

Sherlock Holmes. Just from classic literature

and the fact that he's still prominent today

is one of those go -tos. I mean, he even was

a holodeck character in The Next Generation of

Star Trek and took over the Enterprise. So, I

mean, he's still pretty slick to be used in pop

culture even today. So I definitely think that

he's well -deserving of where he's at. Interesting

that four people actually had him ranked at...

exactly number five which is where he ends up

and dan you were one of them so uh i'm assuming

you're fine with his position here i think it's

a little too high honestly no i mean like yeah

i'm completely fine with it because you think

about you know charlotte combs is a great character

and to be a character on his level you need a

great nemesis and that is moriarty and i think

it and it gets into the idea maybe even original

and then originizes the idea of being the arch

nemesis and you know a lot of these characters

every every time you had a hero you need someone

to connect them to and that started perhaps with

with sherlock so and also you know he's a character

that is you know there's uh something about a

villain that is not necessarily one of great

power but one of great intellect that's far more

interesting so i definitely think he's super

deserving I think we might get a lot of agreement

on this one because four people had him at number

five, three people had him at number six. So

we're right in there. Let's go to our number

fourth pick. Let's leave the pre -1900s and go

back to the 1900s here for a character that first

appeared in a novel and then a couple different

films. Our number four pick is on 76 % of the

contributors' lists and on 28 % of the top tens.

We'll go with Dr. Hannibal Lecter for our number

four pick. Dr. Hannibal Lecter. Not on anybody's

top one, though. DJ, you are the highest ranker

at number two, so we'll start with you. Hannibal

Lecter is tough for me because I like him. He's

so charismatic. I'm talking about Anthony Hopkins.

He's smart and calculating, and I root for him.

He's kind of the hero of his own entitled Hannibal

film. That's how much I like it. The reasons

for doing the despicable things he does is what

kind of is the thing that makes him villainous,

because... of the petty nature of his reasoning.

I mean, he slaughters and feeds on the rude.

He plays mind games with the doe -eyed Clarice

because it pleases him. Because he's captivated

by her cleverness, it kind of catches him off

guard. But again, is there anyone who, at the

end of Silence of the Lambs, is not rooting for

him to catch Chilton? I mean, they've got to

get Chilton. Get him. I mean, is anyone not rooting

for him to get out of Mason Verger's clutches

or not chuckling when he's eating Ray Liotta's

brains? I mean, he's a bad guy. He's a terrific

villain. And maybe because he's so good at manipulating

everybody around him is why I like him so much.

All right. Steve, let's go to you. You also had

him in your top 20. Are you fine with him being

all the way up here at number four? Oh, yeah,

definitely. He's pretty. uh not only iconic but

i love the portrayal by anthony hopkins anthony

hopkins pretty much any role he touches is gold

um and then just the fact that he's this sick

demented yet intelligent charismatic individual

who's playing the field from behind glass for

part of the film uh just speaks volumes of his

intellect and the fact that you know he talked

the one guy into eating his own tongue and you

know and you know he managed to escape prison

and uh um basically stuck it to chilton even

though he didn't kill him but uh it's it's just

that we know interesting yeah that we know of

um he left barney alone yeah um Not the purple

dinosaur. Another interesting thing about Dr.

Hannibal Lecter here, 76 % of the list, also

76 % of the contributors had him in the top 50.

So every single person that voted for him had

him in the top 50. Most people had him in the

top 20. Dan, no surprise here to see Dr. Hannibal

Lecter show up here in the top 10. Oh, none whatsoever.

And I know it may be sacrilegious, but it makes

me think my favorite version of the character

is the actual television show and Matt Mickelson's

performance of it. And it helps that he gets

much more time with the character. And I just

think they're... He portrays it in a very different

way. You don't see the viciousness up front as

much. It eventually gets there, but you get a

little bit more of the human side and understanding

of where this character is coming from. There's

no denying, you know, Anthony Hopkins' performance

is legendary, but I just, I thought the... The

television show, which is highly underrated,

and I was surprised it lasted as long as it did,

but it's a really worthy discussion as well.

It's one reason I ranked him as high as I did

as well, but not just because of the film, but

you see that there is a lot to that character

that can be mined based on that television show

and the movie as well. Well, movies and book.

So, yeah, when we were doing this list, to me,

he was a shoe -in for top ten for certain. Mickelson

won me over because at first I was like, I don't

think he's – because you're right, he's completely

not Anthony Hopkins' Hannibal Lecter. But after

like the first season, I'm like, you know what?

I think he's kind of growing on me because he's

more of a sphinx, I think. He's not – Hopkins

wears the pleasure of being Lecter all over his

face. He's smiling. He's – Mickelson's a – you

don't know what he's thinking. which makes him

even more scary and dangerous because you don't

know, is he going to kill me right now? I guess

he's going to kill me right now. You have no

idea what he's going to, you know, flip out or

do something. So, yeah. Interesting, too, like

I said. Well, Matt, first off, agree or disagree

with Hannibal Lecter being in the top five? No,

I think he's one of the most iconic, not even

villains, because characters in Anthony Hopkins'

portrayal is some of the best. He's ever done

some of the best work I've ever seen. And yeah,

going back to Matt Mickelson, it's interesting

seeing, because when I first started watching

Hannibal, like one of the first episodes, I couldn't

understand a word he was saying. I was like,

whoa, I'm in for something here. But then it

got better, and his kind of like him playing

off of Will Graham in there, because I've always

liked, I don't know, call me an idiot or something

like that, but I like Red Dragon a lot. I think

Red Dragon is really, really good. I like his,

The complexity he has with Will Graham and with

Edward Ortner, I like their banter back and forth.

It's way different than him and Clarice. Clarice

is like this real sexual tension. There's a relationship

building there, whereas it's kind of like a Moriarty

and Sherlock Holmes kind of going back and forth.

It's a battle of wills in Red Dragon for me,

a little bit. But you get... Of course, you have

Brian Cox. I think that's... I think Manhunter

is an underrated Michael Mann movie as well,

too, which is basically just Red Dragon, of course.

But I like Brian Cox and his limited. I like

Brian Cox in general. But yeah, it's it's funny

how different characters have let their like

they've given their own little thing to Hannibal

Lecter. But at the end of the day, Anthony Hopkins

reigns supreme. But I think everybody has put

their mark on the character in their own like

cool way. And this overall is just a character

that's going to live. for live forever and it

can be redone hopefully in a good way at some

point maybe i don't know uh interesting thing

here because our number four and our number three

nobody every single person that ranked our number

four and every single person that ranked our

number three had them in the top 50 which is

not going to be true for our number two and number

one because there was people that ranked the

number one and number two on the other side of

the 50 mark so that's kind of interesting um

still 15 contributors have not seen their number

one fall And there's only three spots left. So

that is interesting as well. Our number three

pick, and I think most people will probably be

able to narrow down who's left, but maybe not

the order. Our number three pick is on 84 % of

the list. 84 % of people voted for Freddy Krueger.

Freddy Krueger is our number three. I'm the only

one that had him at my number one because I don't

know of a scarier character in my world because

I don't like horror films, and he is why. I saw

this way too young, and I didn't like horror

films after I saw this. So I need to go back

and give him another chance maybe, but I don't

want him in my nightmares or in my dreams. So

Freddy Krueger was definitely my number one.

I was not expecting to do that going into it,

but as I was kind of boiling things down and

trying to rank some of these guys, he just ended

up as my number one um just from the scare factor

i think dj what do you think of freddy krueger

being at number three and he is he the last head

on the mount rushmore of horror villains hey

guys you you like sleep I like sleep. And more

importantly, I need sleep. And Matt can tell

you, we've had many discussions about horror

villains, and typically our rankings come down

to how difficult is it to avoid said monster?

And there is no fucking way to avoid Freddy Krueger.

It's a waiting game. It's like he's got a watch.

I mean, after this show, he might show up. I

have no idea. I mean, he not only preys on your

fear, he catches and kills you when you're at

your most vulnerable. On top of that, he's clever,

he's funny, and has one of the most iconic weapons,

and not only in horror movie history, but like

in cinema in general. That shot of Nancy in the

bathtub, is it Nancy in the bathtub? I'm pretty

sure. With the clawed hand emerging from the

water, still gives me, I don't take baths because

of that. Please don't talk about it. He's not

just on my Mount Rushmore of horror villains.

If there was a totem pole, Freddy Krueger would

be on the top in terms of horror. Matthew, any

disagreement with him being at number three here?

I like Freddy Krueger a lot. I'm going to disagree

a little bit. It's going to be mainly because

of how goofy he got later on in some of the later

films. Remember, I've only seen the first film.

I'm just kidding. Okay. Well, check out Dream

Warriors. Check out Dream Warriors and Dream

Child. You know what I mean? I mean, it had so

many ebbs and flows. At least with things like

Jason, it stayed consistent, but then he got

magic and he became magical and that whole thing

flew out the window too. But Freddy Krueger in

the first one, yes. I mean, by all means, it's

like this guy gets you in your dreams. Like,

I'm sleeping. I'm supposed to be in my place

of bliss. And it's like this guy with a knife

hand is coming out and his arms stretch out and

then I have gooey stares that I can't run up.

And he's coming through windows and I'm getting

sucked into my bed. throwing out with blood everywhere

um but at the end of the day it i mean in terms

of his horror villains the the sweater the hat

oh and by the way yeah he's a child killer child

rapist too so that really puts him on the list

for me just in terms of uh sadisticness and his

being a cruel person but um yeah i mean that

puts him a pie for me but he does get so goofy

at the some of the movies you know welcome to

primetime bitch which i love Come on. You laugh

at it. You love it. I love it. It's goofy. Steve,

is this the deserving of the highest ranking

horror villain? Oh, I definitely think so. This

one terrified me as a kid for months. I saw this

way too young. That and the scenes where it's

later type stuff where it's I saw it with the

Crypt Keeper, too, like where they intermix some

of that stuff. So it was just even worse for

me as a kid. So this one has been one that's

traumatized me. for a long time when i was a

kid so yeah i i know i know that i was right

in putting him as my number one because during

dj and matt's just talking about it i got the

chills like four times and my whole body was

shaking so i watched the trailer for ready player

one and he shows up in the trailer i'm like oh

my god that's freddy krueger jan what do you

think of freddy krueger coming in here number

three Well, there's no denying he's a villain,

obviously, because there's some characters we

talked about. Is he a villain? Is he not? There's

no debate when it comes to Freddy Krueger. He

checks off all the evil elements. Yeah, I think

looking at the genre of horror, I would say he

probably is the best villain of that genre, and

considering the amount of horror villains we've

seen, he deserves to be up this high. Matt is

right. He does get kind of... goofy and more

comedic as the movies go on. But I think that

ends up giving him a lot of personality as well.

So maybe he ends up being less scary. But I'll

be, I think, honestly, my first experience with

Freddy. was obviously not with freddy krueger

in the movies but the simpsons parody of freddy

krueger uh but you you also know you're doing

something right when simpsons puts you in the

world of um the treehouse of horror back when

you know it was good not when it was whatever

it is now but and also just a note to our contributors

the four people that left freddy krueger off

of their top 100 i would like an explanation

um all right let's go to remember 14 Contributors

number one pick have not been talked about yet,

and there's only two picks left. Number two pick

on 84%, which means four people, again, did not

vote for our number two pick. Impressive. Most

impressive. But 60 % of all contributors had

this character in their top 10. On three people's

number one pick overall, Darth Vader at number

two. Darth Vader at number two. That's it, I

know who's number one. Three people had this

character in number one, like I said. 15 people

had Darth Vader in the top 10. DJ, is Darth Vader

deserving to be up this high at number two? The

prequels kind of sullied this character with

sand diatribes and creepy sexual tension, but

I think Rogue One is the film. The biggest achievement

of Rogue One was to remind us how scary, how

truly very scary Darth Vader really is. I mean,

especially in that. horrific murder scene and

i'm like that's not an action scene that's a

murder scene and i personally i mean i personally

like empire vader empire strikes back vader who

was clever and kind of funny and killed underlings

with the force uh without a second thought through

view screens for crying out loud but even at

this character's weakest state anakin skywalker

vader uh say it with me murdered a bunch of unsuspecting

children. And also he strangled the love of his

life. Oh, and also killed his best friend and

committed Tuscan genocide, tortured his daughter

and his future son -in -law, cut off his son's

hand just to persuade him to join his side. I

mean, that's leaving out his appearance, which

from the moment you see him on the screen screams,

this is the fucking bad guy. But he did murder

his first daddy. So that's also true. All right,

going through the rankings here of Darth Vader.

1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3. Binary. 6, 9, 9,

and a 5, I forgot. Dan, what do you think? Darth

Vader at number 2. I thought he'd be number one.

I was hoping he'd be number one. He was who I

was rooting for, but hey, he's number two. He's

got everything. He's got the look, the voice,

the power, the impact. He is the ultimate villain

in so many ways. He's even, in the comics, he

ends up getting these evil versions of R2 -D2

and C -3PO. They're amazing. They're dynamic.

It just shows you... Like, he still has that

love of building robots, but in a more demented

sense, in a way. So, to me, like, yeah. I mean,

putting the fact that, yes, he was portrayed

by Andy Christensen in some rather non -complimentary

sequences in the prequels, but still, ultimately,

he's still Darth Vader, even with the nose and

everything George Lucas has done to try to kill

that character. But at least, though... There

is an element of redemption with him. Maybe that's

why some would put other villains ahead of him.

So I guess you can argue that. And Star Wars

is his story. Star Wars is the story of Darth

Vader. And let's not forget that Anakin Skywalker

is not Darth Vader. I mean, they are, but he

doesn't become Darth Vader until a certain point.

So let's not judge him based on Hayden Christensen.

Well, Disney did de -neuter him. I do want, again,

an explanation for people not putting Darth Vader

in their top 100. I don't understand that whatsoever.

What? Never seen Star Wars. Steve, what do you

think of Darth Vader showing up here? Yeah, he

definitely deserves it. People are crazy if they

didn't put him in there. And again, like I said,

with number three and four, nobody had them any

lower than 50. We did have someone that had Darth

Vader at 63, someone else at 48, and someone

else at 46. So that's really what's hurting Darth

Vader a little bit. But continue your thought.

Yeah, I... Yeah, I mean, technically he should

have been number one, but just based on his iconic

nature and the fact that he just kind of looks

awesome in that suit. And then you add the fact

that Rogue One just further added to his character.

And yeah, skipping the because I don't consider

anything with Anakin Darth Vader because he didn't

have the suit. I count him with the suit. So.

Yeah, I definitely am in favor of them being

in the top two. Matt, agree with everybody else,

or are you going to be the dissenting voice on

Darth Vader? Well, to the, what, four people

that put him in the top 100? No! I mean, it's

either you haven't seen movies. Maybe you don't

believe in movies. Maybe it's kind of like it's

against your religion. Maybe you're a Jedi and

you're like, fuck Darth Vader. I don't really

know. But it's kind of like this. There's nothing

more iconic than the deep, the breathing, the

black suit, the helmets, everything about the

voice. You know, James Earl Jones doing it all.

And yeah, I mean. I think we can all agree that

the whole Anakin Skywalker, that was pre -Vader.

You just got to wash that out of your mind a

little bit. But yeah, there's nothing more iconic

than that. The only thing I will say is that

he does – as a villain, he's villainous, but

then he's manipulated by another villain. who

you could say is maybe a little more evil than

Darth Vader. He throws him down a fence shaft,

man. He does. He redeems himself. Then I could

take it because he kind of becomes a good guy

at the end of it too. I like to think that he's

not manipulated so much as he just is just allowing

him to think he's in control. I mean, that's

a good point. He does want – you could rule together

the galaxy as father and son. He wants to kill

him. He wants to kill this guy anyway, so he's

like, rule together as father. I mean, I'm number

two. I mean, he's – you could argue that he's

like – it's going to be one a and one B, you

know what I mean? Cause it's that close aside

from a few from four people that don't like fun,

I guess. It seems like everybody, it seems like

everybody thinks they know. Number one, let me

remind that 11 people's number one has not shown

up yet. And three of you are not going to see

your number one. So maybe that puts a little

doubt in your mind. The number one character

appeared on 92 % of people's lists. 92%. Give

it to me. Give it to me. 76 % of people had this

character in their top 10, and he was on 1, 2,

3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 people's number one. How many

people on the panel? That would be three of you.

And that would be the Joker at number one. Before

we let these guys talk, Dan, because you and

I were not the ones that had him at number one.

I actually had the Joker at 17. You had the Joker

at number nine. You're nuts. Two people did not

vote for the Joker at all in the top 100. That's

sick. Dan, you start this. Why is Joker deserving

of number one, or why was there eight people

more deserving in your mind? I'm outnumbered

here, so I feel like... I'll back you up. I'll

back you up. Yeah. No, I... Okay. Let's start

with the fact, yes, Joker is certainly a great

character in deserving top... Like, he was in

my top ten. But I think the reason I ranked some

other characters ahead of him, you know, obviously

Dracula, because you're talking about a much

different type of character, you know, legacy

-wise. But Magneto is my number two, and I mentioned

that because I found his... dimension of a character

a lot much more interesting in the stories you

can tell and I think where Joker's limitations

are if you want to call them limitations is more

so like there is no compassion for him as a character

minus a few stories I mean there's a killing

joke where there is an element like the complete

absence of humanity in a way may harm him in

the sense of the stories you can tell but ultimately

Why it's important is because the way Joker is

designed is obviously to be the arch nemesis

of Batman. And when you have a character that

is so bent on control and so bent on basically

preparing and using his intellect to solve problems,

when you have this, you know, eczema that you

can never solve, that is unpreparable, who...

is able to kind of understand you in a way that

you wish he couldn't. I think that certainly

makes him super interesting as why he's such

an important character in the world of comics

and in well now literature in general. Obviously,

we've seen him portrayed in films twice very

effectively. And he's a clown and, you know,

clowns are evil. So he's a human clown that's

evil. So there you go. But so, yeah, there's

no denying, like, I don't have an issue with

him being number one. I think there's a lot of

arguments you can make to why he deserves it.

be there but for me in the stories i like i just

i i preferred a few other characters yeah um

for me i i had the likes of dracula palpatine

hannibal moriarty Terminator, Hal 9000, Borg,

Darth Vader, Big Brother, and Freddy Krueger

all ahead of Joker. But I did have the Joker

as the number one comic book character on my

list, so I have no problem with him being the

top -rated comic book character. But I've never

seen this much agreement as far as the top goes

with a number one pick, so we'll continue this

conversation with the people that are obviously

happy and the other people that hadn't. Joker

number one, JT from Saskatoon, Real Films, Eduardo,

Besotted Geek, Mild -Mannered Moviemen, DJ, Matt,

Steve, etc. I forgot to mention, but the number

ones for Darth Vader would have been also In

Session Film and TV's Mr. Neal. So let's start

with DJ. What do you think? Joker reigning supreme

on this entire panel. Not a ton of comic book

characters, but Joker at number one. uh for me

the joker has always been the answer to the question

what if the smartest guy in the room was also

insane okay he's one of the first villains i've

seen disarm the hero by sadistically goading

him to hurt and kill him because he knows his

rules he took the teeth out of batman arguably

the greatest and most intimidating hero of all

time neutered neutered by the joker's madness

i mean in terms of acting you have a minimum

minimum of three versions of this character that

are legendary whether it's the jack nicholson

joker the heath ledger joker the mark hamill

joker all of all of them every facet of them

are amazing and captivating and man i mean to

this you can even add even even though he wasn't

great You're going to get great actors to play

this role. Jared Leto is playing him now. And,

I mean, some people are kind of mixed on him.

But this is a character that thespians want to

play because there's such freedom in playing

this guy. And we're talking about how Lex Luthor

stands up to Superman. For somebody like a clown

to stand up to, literally, Batman is criminal

nightmare. and the joker is not afraid of him

and batman can't kill him it's just such a great

dynamic they have in this character i mean when

i think when you when you ask me this question

i'm like villains well i know joker is number

one so i need to figure out what the rest of

them are because joker is that guy so yeah joker

is number one for me is perfect matt i'll give

you a second Yeah, everything kind of DJ says.

I mean – but to Dan's point a little bit too,

I mean there are some stories. I mean The Killing

Joke is a perfect example of like pseudo -humanizing

the Joker. But at the same time, the Joker is

an unreliable source for information, so you

don't know if this is bullshit or not. So that

makes it even more infuriating to some people

like what is this guy's motive? And there's no

motive behind it. And even what – what was it?

Graham Morrison even said to a certain degree

that The Killing Joke in some ways could almost

be like the final – batman uh joker story as

well too for his certain reasons and and you

also have a brian azzarello writing joker as

well too and you see everything told from like

the perspective of a third party seeing joker

at his most villainous and evil uh picking up

from arkham and doing all the things he's doing

but then you see him in tender moments with like

harley quinn and stuff like that so um it all

depends what part of joker you're looking at

i mean but he is he's He's Moriarty. Even some

of the Scott Snyder stuff, it's like Joker is

not just a person. It is people over the course

of time. So it's just an ongoing villain. He's

just a force – like kind of Anton Chigurh. He's

a force of nature that can never be destroyed

in any way, shape, or form because there's always

somebody else to kind of pick the mantle up for

the Joker in a lot of ways. That's probably where

the unreliableness comes from. But yeah, number

one, obviously, I put him in there. Steve, final

thoughts on the Joker? Houston, we have a problem.

Yeah, obviously this was going to be my number

one, not only because I enjoy voicing the character

and because I host a Batman podcast, but because

to me, Mark Hamill is the definitive Joker. Correct.

Hands down, and when I first saw him in the DCAU,

and Batman the Animated Series back in the 90s,

there was no doubt in my mind that this was the

Joker. This was creepy. I saw Mask of the Phantasm

when I was a kid when it came out in theater.

And it's just seeing all the different renditions.

I mean, Cesar Romero, which was just the comical

version, just really kind of dumbed down Joker.

And then you've got... Jack Nicholson is the

kind of kooky 80s version. And then the Heath

Ledger, why so serious? And then the Leto one

that looks like he's a crackhead, which I hate

the Leto one. I hate the Jared Leto one. He's

divisive, man. But for me, the Mark Hamill version

has basically every Joker kind of rolled into

one. as aesthetically pleasing of a mug as you

can get for the Joker. And then the fact that

he got his own film dedicated to him in Return

of the Joker for Batman Beyond to rampage another

generation of Bat family and attacking Bruce

again through proxy of one of his previous Robins.

A disgrace to the name Joker. Why in my day?

So to me, this is like kind of hands down, like

no matter what rendition of the Joker you're

messing with, he's the only one smart enough

to take down the Bat family as the way to hurt

Batman himself. And even in Death of the Family

or Death in the Family, either one, the Joker

did the same thing by destabilizing Batman by

attacking his crime fighting cohorts. All right.

So, yeah, that is our number one pick for the

day. There's a lot of stuff to react to. There's

a lot of stuff to digest here now that we've

had all 100 picks revealed. There's a lot of

statistics to go over and a lot of just things

to discuss in general. But we're not going to

do that now. We've been at it for three hours

or so now. So we're going to save all of that

for the wrap -up episode. So it's like all the

shows do these days. It's like beyond the Stranger

Things or whatever. It's like the after -party

thing that we're going to do. So if you want

to hear what three number ones are, picks did

not appear anywhere in the top 100. If you want

to hear the 25 closest to making the list, maybe

101 through 125 will reveal. If you want to get

all the statistics breakdown and our overall

thoughts on everything that transpired during

this list and what surprised us and all that

kind of jazz, tune in to the wrap -up show. We'll

give you all of that. We need some time to digest

everything that just happened, but we will be

back with lots of thoughts. You can guarantee

that. And we'll also, once again, highlight all

the people that contributed and give you their

information as far as, um, where you can go to,

to find their stuff, DJ, Matt, Dan, and Steve.

Thanks for being on this marathon with me. And

thanks for all of the opinions and the feedback

on all of these picks. I think we did a pretty

good job of knowing at least something on every

single character that appeared in the top 100.

So kudos to all of you guys for, for your various

and diverse knowledge. So tune in next time for

another final look at our top 100. fictional

villains when we wrap this thing up and put a

bow on it. Tune in next time. The office. Now.

Swell, Mr. L. Mr. L? Mercy? I don't know what

your game is, but I promise you you'll pay dearly

for this. You're dead, do you hear me? Blah,

blah, blah. Whoa, mama, check out the cute hitchhiker.

Joker. Lexi, old kid, do I... I have a deal for

you. What am I going to do with you? You simply

won't die. Oh, yes. I know the Joker will show

up at some point. Harley. You kill Captain Clown.

There should be a whole outtake of just DJ and

Steve doing lines. You killed Captain Clown?

How dare you? You sound like the Batman version

of the Joker. Well, Mark Hamill always goes up

like this and then goes lower when he's upset.

But you sound like the Kevin Michael Richardson

version. I like the Kevin Michael Richardson

version. He's awesome. That's from the Red Hood,

I believe, right? No, that was... What was that?

That, once again, played Bender. Oh, yeah, yeah.

What the fuck is that guy's name? Ah, brave new

world that has such putzes in it.