Fleischer Superman Cartoons Review

I don't know what to say, the monkeys won't do!

And I also don't know what to say about those

crazy producers from the Geek Cop Radio Network!

They're driving me crazy! This looks like a job

for Superman. Hello and welcome to the 19th episode

of Tooncast Beyond, brought to you by the Geekcast

Radio Network. I am your host, TfG1Mike, and

today I am joined by Sketch1984. Hello. How's

it going? It's going, and today we're going to

be jumping back into the DeLorean for another

Tooncast Beyond DeLorean time episode. With our

headings set for 1941 and the Fleischer or Fleischer,

we were arguing off air of how to say it. I think

Fleischer sounds better. Uh, the 1941 Fleischer

Superman cartoons. So what have you been up to,

good sir? Uh, watching lots of cartoons. Uh,

yeah, I've been sick since freakin' Soccer -acon

where I met Steve Bloom! Did you get an autograph?

Yes, I did. Nice. Yeah, they wouldn't let anybody

take pictures. That was pretty bogus. He only

had one autograph signing. Well, no, actually

they gave him two eventually. That convention

is not the best run, to say the least. Yeah,

though maybe still possibly I don't know it's

a little different of not as well run as the

Emerald City comic on the weekend before where

I met Kevin Conroy Get something signed from

him. Of course. I got him to sign my Justice

League the like the the artwork on the Justice

League complete series set and I also had him

sign Batman Arkham City. Oh sweet. Oh and he

gave me a headshot too. Oh yeah and your cohort

will be super sad that I met Rob Paulson. We've

talked to Rob twice so that's just as good as

meeting him. No but I wish you would have told

me you were going to Emerald City. Because I

would have told you to represent the Geekcast

Radio Network because we've been dying to get

an interview with Kevin Conroy. I'm sure as soon

as Steve Megatron hears this intro to this episode,

he's going to kill you. I didn't think that was

in my jurisdiction. You should have told me you

were going, like you should have said, hey, I'm

going to ECCC next weekend or whatever it was.

Well, somebody doesn't pay attention to my tweets.

you tweet so little so what well I guess compared

to you yeah three accounts shut up there's a

thing called retweeting yeah retweeting is stupid

sometimes especially with that new format that

Twitter has of showing the picture of the person

that retweeted the other person anyway that's

a conversation for another day As far as as far

as I go just podcasting as always and We started

masked mayhem which is covering all 75 episodes

of the mass cartoon That's gonna be torture With

that stupid robot and that lame -ass kid anyway

I've seen mask. I'm I'm gonna get around to it

one of these days Maybe Hasbro will put it on

Netflix. Alright, so with this being a DeLorean

time episode we are going back to the old Tooncast

classic format where we give you a history lesson.

As I said before, we were talking about the Fleischer

and Famous Superman cartoons, which are a series

of 17 animated Technicolor short films released

by Paramount Pictures and based upon the comic

book character Superman. The pilot and first

eight shorts were produced by Fleischer Studios

from 1941 to 42, while the final eight were produced

by Famous Studios, a successor company to Fleischer

Studios. from 1942 to 1943. Superman was the

final animated series initiated under the Fleischer

Studios before Famous Studios officially took

over production in May of 1942. Obviously neither

one of us were born in 1941. I should say not.

Or before that, I honestly don't even remember

where I saw these as a kid. I know in the 40s

they were shown in theaters before films, but

I honestly have no friggin clue back in the 80s

where I would have seen these. I remember seeing

them because I remember the pilot, the mad scientist,

Superman aka the mad scientist episode. I remember

that episode like it was no tomorrow. They played

on television in some capacity, even back then

in the 80s. I remember seeing them at least briefly

on Cartoon Network's Toonami block. Oh, wow.

Yeah. They actually really liked using audio

clips and video clips from these old shorts in

their various bumpers. Yeah. They're like, we

will not be intimidated by criminal threat. yeah

criminal threat if you bring back to Nami you

wouldn't have criminal threats on your ass oh

funny thing about that yes I know bringing back

to Nami yes never thought that would ever ever

ever be possible I mean it's like they don't

do that they don't say we're done with this and

then bring it back though apparently they did

so with super chunk at some point but anything

is better than level up true that yeah so as

a kid do you have any memories of any specific

episodes or anything like that or do you just

remember watching it I just remember seeing bits

of it so yeah don't really have fond memories

of it because Yeah, yeah These are classic classic

shorts and they are You know for the time they

were amazing stuff I guess well for theatrical

shorts. They were amazing stuff You know if you

compare the animation to say 80s television cartoons,

it's it's better In many senses, it's better

than the 80s television cartoons. Um, don't know

about that, but... I mean, like the animation

techniques and the mood. Well, it was all rotoscope,

wasn't it? I don't... I think so. I think I read

that somewhere. We're gonna get that. We'll get

to that at some point. Yeah, yeah. See, here's

the thing. When I was watching these back on

Netflix, I just... I, you know, I was looking

up all the information. I'm like, 1941. Warner

Brothers was producing Looney Tunes at this time.

And Looney Tunes had better animation. For its

genre and for what the Superman Fleischer cartoons

are, it's, you know, great animation. It is.

But compare it to something like Looney Tunes

and Looney Tunes, just the overall... I guess

cleanliness or clean lines of Looney Tunes kills

this cartoon out of the water. Yeah, and Looney

Tunes was better preserved to be sure. That's,

that's true. That's true. But Looney Tunes was

way more fluid. Yeah. Well, you kind of have

to be with someone like somebody Sam, I mean.

Well, speaking of the fluidity of the animation,

I noticed in some of the action, it's like...

It's like things have very odd physics and when

the building kind of creeped back and forth and

curved That kind of stuff happened all the time

in these shorts and it's yeah, it's an interesting

effect, but it it doesn't look Normal it happened

in the very first episode when he had to save

Lois from the falling building. Yeah He's pushing

on it Right, well, he's pushing it, and he pushes

it too far. He flies up to the... like, he swirly

flies around the top of the building all the

way up, and he just grabs onto the top of the

building's antenna and, I guess, at 10 % strength,

pulls it back to even it out. I mean, that made

no sense to me, but... I don't know. I just...

Really what I have memories of with these cartoons

as far as as a kid in the 80s is more so hearing

them than actually watch like you know I'd be

in my room and my mom would turn the TV on in

the living room and I would hear you know the

mad scientist episode or whatever episode it

was and I would just listen to them like the

whole time that I was quote -unquote watching

them back on Netflix honestly I was doing other

stuff on my computer. I wasn't actually watching

the cartoon. I was listening to it, like it was

a radio play, which is essentially where this

came from. Because you had Bud Collier and, oh

god, what's her name? Joan Alexander, who played

Lois in the, or voiced Lois in the cartoon. You

had those two which came from the actual radio

show. So... I like these for simply listening

to them more so watching them. Because some of

the stuff they did in these cartoons is just

really really weird. It just is very weird. So

getting into the cast and the characters, obviously

as I just said, Bud Collier is the voice of Superman

Clark Kent slash Kal -El. I don't know why he

needs three names, but that's... Argument for

today. I know I know why he has three names.

I just don't know why he never even called him

I know I that might be a You John Alexander who

voices Lois Lane Jackson Beck voiced Perry white

Jack Mercer voiced Jimmy Olsen Jack Mercer also

voiced the mad scientist one and Bud Collier

voiced mad scientist to Buddy Collier voiced

a number of people in this cartoon, actually.

Obviously, back then it was a very, very small

cast, so you got double and triple duty from

a lot of these different people. I think the

voices were well done. What I liked about Bud

Collier's Clark Kent and Superman was how he

could have that softer voice, and then he could

go... Deep like but you know he could go into

that deeper voice for Superman I was always amused

when in the earlier shorts He stopped doing this

later on but in the earlier stores. He was a

this looks like a job for Superman. Yeah It's

like high register deep You know, yeah, but I

but but I like that about it because it even

though these shorts there's no obviously 1941

they didn't know what continuity was back then

and they're in front of movies that you're supposed

to see in the theater i mean it's essentially

like seeing an ad at a movie theater today you

know even though thank god ads are not six minutes

long in total they are but each ad is not six

minutes long so the way i look at bud collier's

Clark Kent Superman is in the same way as I look

at Kevin Conroy's Batman Bruce Wayne where Bruce

is a low voice and Batman, well Bruce is a regular

like a almost like Kevin's normal voice and then

Batman is a deeper voice that he uses. There's

a very very there's a fine difference between

Bruce Wayne and Batman. Same thing here with

Superman and Clark Kent. There's a very very

huge difference in this one. What are some of

the other characters that you liked or didn't

like? Hmm I What did they do with Jimmy and this

guy Lewis who looked a lot like Jimmy Both boys

by Jack Mercer. Yeah Those did those guys didn't

come in and tell like 10 segments in yeah famous

took over. Yeah Uh, well, that makes sense. Yeah,

because Fleischer only did the first eight, and

then Famous did the rest. Oh, okay. Yeah. That

explains the shift in tone. Because I was like,

wait a second, because I was like, you know,

Clark is just making, you know, maybe you should

go do that, Lois. And then you hear this voice

that, and I actually had to stop what I was doing

to actually go and, you know, pull up the screen

and look at him, like, okay, that, unless Lois

has had a sex change operation, which I don't

even think they knew about those in the forties,

that's not Lois, and he's like, no, it's Louis,

L -O -U -I -S, and I'm like, oh, God, stop talking

through your nose. Oh, my nose. I don't know.

I like obviously Clark and Superman I thought

obviously he's the star of the stuff but any

of the other characters weren't didn't really

do much I mean sure Lois kept getting into trouble

every time but it's you know it's a thing where

where a series or a you know a set of serials

starts out with You know potential hazard Superman

goes in to save it at the end of the day. It's

all happy hunky Dory either he and Lois or or

not he and Louis but Lois but either he and Lois

and Clark are back at the Daily Planet and they're

making Snyder marks to each other or whatever

You know, I mean it ends on a happy note every

time and I understand that they had to do that

back then And I understand what these were. I

just, I don't know, I guess in this age of needing

and yearning for actual story and continuity.

Yeah, it's so much of a story. Yeah, these shorts

just aren't my thing. I understand what they

were going for, but I just, just can't get into

it. Not at all. So, as I said, getting into some

of the history and the production of the stuff,

the first nine cartoons were produced by Fleischer

Studios, the name by which the cartoons are commonly

known. uh... in nineteen forty two fleshy studios

was dissolved and reorganized as famous studios

which was the final eight shorts and these cartoons

are seen as some of the finest and so in the

most lavishly budgeted animated cartoons produced

during the golden age of american animation are

you serious who wrote that i don't know did he

take us off wikipedia well yeah that's where

i got it off of but I honestly don't know about

that because a lot of these cartoons are very

gritty and dirty looking. By mid -1941, both

brothers, Max and David Fleischer, had recently

finished their first animated feature film, Gulliver's

Travels. Oh wow, that goes all the way back to

1941. We're deep in production on their second

Mr. Bug Goes to Town. They were reluctant to

commit themselves to another major project at

the time. When they were approached by their

distributor and owner since May 1941, Paramount

Pictures, Paramount was interested in cashing

in on the phenomenal popularity of the new Superman

comic books by producing a series of theatrical

cartoon based upon the character. The Fleishers

hoped to discourage Paramount from committing

to the series, so they informed the studio that

the cost of producing such series of cartoons

would be about $100 ,000 per short. An amazingly

high figure, about four times the difficult budget

of a six -minute Fleischer Popeye, the sailor

cartoon during the 1940s. To their surprise,

Paramount agreed to a budget of $50 ,000, half

the requested sum, but still two times the cost

of the average Fleischer short. That's crazy.

Paramount wanted so badly to cash in on Superman,

they offered the Fleishers $50 ,000 per short.

Well, who's gonna turn that down? Oh my god,

that's just nuts, dude. That's... Well in in

the perspective of how much a show costs to make

now well, yeah apparently Well, yeah, obviously

way way way different. Yeah but just just to

make the comparison it's about 400 ,000 per episode.

Yeah of Like a 22 minute show. Yeah, and these

are only six minutes These are only six -minute

shorts, so... Yeah. The funny thing is, if I

did my math right, $50 ,000 per episode, they

did... Max and Dave did nine shorts. That's $450

,000. For nine shorts. Not bad. Nope, not bad

at all. Makes you wonder how much money they

made and how much money they had to spend. Yeah,

that's true. As I said before, the voice of Superman

in the series was initially provided by Bud Collier,

who also performed the lead character's voice

during the Superman radio series. Joan Alexander

was the voice of Lois Lane. Hey Ro, she also

portrayed on radio alongside Collier. So essentially

they took the radio show people and took them

into an animation booth or whatever and said,

hey, say these lines so we can animate this.

Getting to the rotoscoping stuff, the process

of tracing animation drawings from live action

footage was used minimally to lend realism to

the human characters and Superman. Many of Superman's

actions, however, could not be rotoscoped, flying,

lifting very large objects, and so on. In these

cases, the Flesher's lead animators, many of

whom were not trained in figure drawing animated,

Roughly and dependent upon their assistance many

of whom were inexperienced with animation But

were trained in figure art to keep Superman on

model during his action sequences Well, no wonder

look like shit you had inexperienced animators

working on it Wow, yeah, well that's the pocketed

a lot of that budget Wow. Yeah. I just, you know,

as I said before, because I'm not going to read

through all this history, but as I said before,

it... The general gist of each of the shows kind

of get into the, you know, the premise of these

shorts. You know, someone does something bad

or someone kidnaps Lois or someone does this,

someone does that, or Lois herself, dumb brunette

that she is, will get herself into these situations,

you know, like, you know, staying on a train

when they're supposed to get off or going into

a building that they're not supposed to be in

and the building collapses, blah, blah, blah.

Every time she gets on the freaking phone, something

collapses on her. Stop getting into the freaking

phone booth! Dumb broad. Yes. She's kind of a

conniving bitch, too. Uh, yeah, she stole his

press pass. Yeah, what's up with that? uh...

for me the only one that i really like out of

any of these as i said before i've seen fourteen

out of the seven like after short fourteen which

i think was the the the mommy like it was in

this short thirteen or fourteen that's the mommy

short where they're saying king cash i didn't

know john cash was alive back then uh... you

know i think what they did that they were going

for like a king cut Kind of thing but it's when

I heard it I was like is he saying King tesh?

Because I couldn't really tell but like once

I saw that one. I'm like, okay I'm I've seen

in more than enough. I don't need to see shorts

15 to 17 Oh God to this day the one that I absolutely

love is the mad scientist that one was cool the

very first one What about you any of the ones

that you liked? Let's see here. I have no personal

attachment to any of these. Having just watched

probably 15 of them, I would say... I can't even

remember the names. The Mad Scientist is pretty

good. I like the one with the comets. Yeah, that

was good. And... I'll tell you what ones I did

like. Go ahead. I really did like the 11th hour.

Yeah. What the heck was... Was with that with

Superman basically sabotaging the Japanese That's

all he was doing. He was sabotaging the Japanese,

which I suppose is the follow -up to Java tours

the Java tours Yeah, and I gotta imagine that

one was skipped on the tsunami run Probably so

Really like I just sat there it's like John was

like Holy racism Batman wait, holy racism Superman

As it were oh the buck teeth and All right, little

man you get what you want Oh Wow famous famous

got a little Preachy with their episodes Yeah,

Famous got a little fucked in the head, I think.

Let's move on. Go ahead. Okay, I see the episode

list here now. So, I like the mechanical monsters.

What the heck, Lois? You're just jumping into

the robots? And Billion Dollar Limited was pretty

good when she... it stuck on the freaking train

and actually picked up a gun and shot it that

was interesting and the bullet tears was pretty

good but I would say my favorites were the magnetic

telescope and oh actually I like the electric

earthquake yeah that was pretty cool that one

had some good action in it yeah it did And a

lot of things I did not like between Fleischer

and famous is when they changed the introduction

Oh, yeah, it's the same introduction the same

animation, but they changed what the dude said

You know in the first you know the first nine

He said you know faster than a speeding bullet

more powerful than a locomotive able to leap

tall buildings in a single bound Later they started

using more powerful than a tsunami and more this

and more that and like What the hell are you

- It didn't make sense anymore. Yeah, it didn't

make sense anymore because it wasn't what I was

used to hearing as far as describing Superman.

That's what we've always heard him described

as. Faster and speeding bullet, more powerful

and locomotive, able to leap top buildings in

a single bound. You know, I don't know, it just...

And the music, the music was okay. Had a catchy

theme. Yeah, the theme is very catchy. I did

like that, but yeah, that's essentially the music.

I will say, going into the legacy a little bit,

in 1985, DC Comics named Fleischer Studios is

one of the honorees in the company's ninth anniversary

publication. 50 who made DC great for its work

on the Superman cartoons. Writer -artist Frank

Miller cited the influence of Max and Dave Fleischer

including them among a list of prominent Golden

Age comics creators whose work he acknowledged

at the end of the 1986 comic series Batman the

Dark Knight Returns. The series strongly influenced

the creation of the acclaimed animated television

series Batman I don't know how. I know when people

said that before, I wasn't sure what they meant.

But now having rewatched these shorts, there

is some similarities definitely in the city design.

There is. And I've heard Bruce Timm say that

he was influenced by the Fleischer cartoons I

have. I've heard him say that on DVD commentaries

and stuff. So it is true. Basically he took this

episodic format of Superman and for Batman, beefed

it up with actual story. Yeah. And it had a very

similar style to it that you could look at this

and then Batman the Animated series and you could

see where some of the attributes are coming from.

Yeah. It's had a number of media releases kind

of getting into the, you know, continuing with

the legacy here. I'm only going to talk about

the ones that are kind of important versus the

earlier earlier ones. in a more quote -unquote

official release from restored and remastered

Superior Vault Elements. I don't know how they

could have found Superior Vault Elements. The

stuff on Netflix looks like a dog shit on it.

Was released on DVD on November 28th, 2006 as

part of Warner Home Video's Superman film re

-releases. The first nine cartoons were released

as part of the four -disc special edition Superman

the Movie. set and the eight remaining cartoons

were included on the two -disc Special Edition

Superman 2 set. The entire collection of Fleischer

famous cartoons were included in the box set,

the Christopher Reeves Superman Collection and

Superman Ultimate Collectors Edition, where both

sets also included a 13 -minute short documentary

on the history of these cartoons entitled First

Flight, the Fleischer Superman series. And of

course, another release came on July 1st, 2018

when Warner Bros. released the shorts on iTunes

via their DC Comics sections for 14 of the shorts

are available for $1 .99 for every two while

the other three are all in one video for the

same price. As again, I've also said that they

are on Netflix as well. Um, yeah, so I think

we're gonna take a quick break and here's some

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Legends of the Dark Knight. So final thoughts

on the Fleischer famous Superman theatrical shorts,

sir Well It was a nice piece of history Yes,

I will agree to that. Yes, it was a nice piece

of history. There's some very interesting animation

in it Now we understand why some of it's kind

of wonky because they had untrained people doing

it but Despite that, it holds up pretty well,

at least in animation. But there's just not a

lot of meat to it. They're kind of fun, but they

get monotonous, especially if you marathon them.

Oh yes. Like, I watched most of them in a single

sitting and it was, oh boy, I needed to throw

in an episode of Spider -Man to break up the

monotony. Yeah, I just... I watched, like I said,

Mad Scientist, the first one, the pilot, that's

my favorite. I watched shorts two through 14

at once, but again, as I said before, after watching

shorts two to five, I was like, okay, the animation

on the Fleischer ones is really, really good.

I got up to short nine, that was really good,

because nine is where Fleischer stopped, 10 is

where Famous took over. Soon as they get to short

10 from short 10 to short 14, I said screw it

and I just listened to it Like it was a radio

play Well, and honestly I I actually like if

I was going to watch or listen to these again

That's what I would do is I would listen to them.

I would not actually sit here and watch them

Yeah, I wouldn't get much enjoyment out of that

because I I realize these are the radio actors,

but It feels a little too disjointed to be a

radio play. I just wouldn't enjoy it. I didn't

think the voice acting was anything special,

honestly. People who are comics fans and people

who are obviously fans of Superman, and I am

a fan of Superman in certain instances, like

the Christopher Reeve movies. Shamelessly, I'm

a fan of Lois and Clark. I don't care. Don't

judge me. That's my my choice. Damn it Hey, man,

I love Superman the animated series Yeah, I love

Superman the animated series, you know, so Thank

heavens for Superman the animated series. We

at least have one good Superman animated series

We wouldn't have one and that would be I know

I would say that If you want to get into Superman

or the mythos of Superman these are You know

something to get you started at least you know

just see the piece of history of what these animated

shorts were You know in regard to the mythos

And I'm not I haven't read a whole lot of old

Superman comics, so Were Ma and Pa Kent not in

the original Superman comics? I don't know an

orphan in this one then sent him to an orphanage

Yeah, I'm not really sure I and Krypton Were

they really that special I thought it was the

fact that Superman was on earth that gave him

his power But I don't know once again I haven't

really read that many old Superman comics So

that origin certainly might have changed because

he didn't fly initially No, no, and also fly

initially in these which was terribly awkward,

but then eventually, apparently, they let him

fly. Yeah. I would say the verdict is... I would

not take this to your first stop on Superman

mythos. If you want a cartoon for Superman, watch

the animated series. Yeah. I would say for people

that want to see what Superman was like in the

early days, at least on television, watch this.

Don't watch that goofy TV show that they did.

Oh, the black and white one? Yes. Oh, God. Well,

at least this one let him be Superman. Yes. Is

there anything you want to pimp out before I

close the show? Yeah, sure. I'm still doing reviews

for nickandmore .com. I just started doing episode

reviews for the Green Lantern series at worldsfinest

.com. Oh, sweet. Yeah. Awesome. So those are

fun. Yes. Thank you for joining us here on Tooncast

Beyond in DeLorean time where there's always

getting in contact with us to leave feedback

for the show. Visit the website geekcasteradio

.com. You can comment on each and every post.

And we will reply and we will start up debates

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you enjoyed this episode. Damn, I gotta start

that over. Shit. We hope you enjoyed this trip

back in time here on Tooncast Beyond and wish

you'll join us next time when we will be returning

to real time as we cover in the superhero spotlight,

Young Justice. For now, I am TFG1Mike with Sketch

1984. Thank you for listening. Until next time.