Interview with David Rosen on The Empty Man

Hey, this is Steve Blum, and you are listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. Hello and welcome

to the Comic Concierge Podcast. The podcast that

believes that comics are for everyone. The key

is finding the right one. This is one of my Comic

Concierge episodes where I bring someone on that's

not typically a comic fan, recommend a comic

to them based upon their interests in other medias,

and we talk about it. Today we have a very special

guest, David Rosen from the Piecing It Together

Podcast and the Bird Road Podcast. Thank you

for joining me today. Hey, thanks for having

me. Yeah, I really really appreciate you taking

the time before we get started though It's probably

good for my audience to get an idea of who you

are in the podcast that you do I know you're

you come from a more musical background and I

know your recent episode of the Broad Road podcast

even had a live episode Which was interesting

to listen to I you guys are brave souls. I don't

think I could ever do that I don't have that

that's why I do a podcast like this. There's

no one in front of me except for my toys Yeah,

I probably would have waited until like year

two, but my co -host, he was adamant. We're jumping

right in. Let's do a live one. But yeah, no,

Bird Road is more of like a political and news

type of show, which I do with my best friend,

Q. And then piecing it together is my podcast.

It's about movies. It's about trying to figure

out what the inspirations were for new movies.

We try to pick them apart and figure out what

other movies maybe were inspired to film. who

made them. And then, yeah, I'm also a music composer.

I compose for film, and I put out instrumental

music albums. And I've got a few albums out on

iTunes and all that. Nice. So you have a lot

of different hats in a lot of different areas

from working with music, working with film, more

political news. Absolutely. So that's keeping

it in a variety. That's a lot of fun. Definitely.

Yeah, and you know keeps me busy. Yeah, I could

imagine so of course Thank you for joining me

today because I know adding comics to that list

especially taking I give you I realize reading

this I'm like I give you a really long comic.

It's like six issues long But as I mentioned

you you don't have a strong comic background

I know in our action before and you ran you read

some previously but coming into this what has

been your experience with the medium of comics?

Yeah, I I don't know why exactly. I don't have

a very specific reason, but I kind of when it

came to all the different forms of entertainment,

I just didn't really do comics growing up. You

know, as a big movie kid, TV, video games, music.

But comics are just never really my thing. I

had some mostly not like superhero stuff. I probably

had some, but I don't even really remember them.

But I had stuff like Beavis and Butthead and

Ren and Stimpy. Those are cool. And I remember

having a Lobo comic that I thought was like the

coolest thing because of the gore and everything.

But yeah, aside from that, though, nothing much.

And then like all through my adult life, other

than watching the movies that are based on comics,

I have not really read any. Interesting, interesting.

So it brings us to the comic that we're talking

about today, which is The Empty Man by Colin

Bunn and Vanessa Del Rey in art. And the reason

I recommend it, It to use like before this I

kind of got an idea of what your interests are

in in different mediums and mentioned horror

and some of the different directors And with

something like your podcast piecing it together

that looks at the different things that kind

of combine into one and I think the empty man

has some of those elements it's certainly within

the horror genre, but you can see a lot of influences

from it column bun is a Relatively newer voice

in comics with least when this came out So it's

kind of curious as someone who has not read comics

in a very long time has only been exposed to

them to the movies How was your experience with

this comic? Sure. Yeah, um, so It was very interesting

sitting down and like reading this thing. And

like, you know, like I said, it's my first time

since I was a kid, really, like sitting down

with a comic and reading it. And it had like

some of the the things that I kind of like the

prejudices, I guess I have against comics. It

had that. But at the same time, it had like a

lot of really great stuff as well. Like a really

cool story, some some really great art, some.

great gore, which I do. I'm not a big horror

fan, but when it comes to horror, I like gore.

So, you know, it definitely. Yeah, it definitely

had that, though. But yeah, it was it was very

interesting going through like the panels and

like the whole way of comic book is laid out.

Also, I was reading it on my tablet, which was,

you know, definitely a first for me because,

you know, back in the day, it was all regular

comics. So that was also an interesting first.

You mentioned some of the prejudices you had

with comics beforehand. What were some of those

that you noticed with this? So not to offend

anybody, but you know, just like a little bit

of a corniness sometimes with characters and

sometimes like a dialogue that doesn't really

sound very natural. And then also another thing,

which is something that I still find myself having

a little trouble with is I have this problem

with books as well is I find myself like kind

of darting ahead like I'll be like looking at

you know the top of the page and also my eyes

look down at the bottom of the page and kind

of ruin what's about to happen and you know sucks

the suspense right out of me you know what I

mean and so that that's been something that that

was something that was a little hard you know

to overcome but I mean it still led to you know

an interesting good read and you know it's a

very cool story. Yeah, I could see that because

I think obviously with a comic you're trying

to compress a lot typically within the frame

and it's hard not to just... Skim ahead, especially

if where there's a climax that's gonna be coming

on the next page or the next panel and You're

looking at and it's like the far bottom right

panel and you're on the left -hand panel and

you can see where you're coming So it is it does

take some time to kind of train yourself not

to do that But but it is a natural I think aspect

of it I think you mentioned the dialogue piece

and I could somewhat see that and as I mentioned

this was the column bun He's this is one of his

earlier works, even though it's not that old

something a few years old Mm -hmm, but it's with

him like coming into I think his own as a creator

And I think like you mentioned the the overall

arc arching story is there But some of the the

pieces in between and how they get there some

of the tropes of like the the characters for

example in their conversations especially that

with the police police detectives and Interrogations

it does come off a little bit cliche at times,

but right He has, I think, as a creator, evolved

quite a lot. And the artist who did this, Vanessa

Del Rey, it was really her second major work.

She did a noir story before this hit. And this

was her first really horror work. She does a

lot of horror stuff. She doesn't do a lot of

work with Marvel or DC. Her style doesn't really

fit into the superhero genre. As you could probably

tell with this, it's much more, you know. Right.

It's very much noir meets horror in the style.

And that's a cool style, very original, and I

definitely found myself imagining what a movie

would look like of this. And they're actually

in the works of apparently making this into a

potential movie. So that's what I saw. Yeah,

I was looking it up online. That's pretty cool.

It'd be cool to see a movie based on a comic

that I actually read. You'd be like, I was there

before it. I knew I knew I know what it was about.

But I know with you mentioned you're not a huge

horror fan per se, but sometimes the gore or

that aspect of it you do enjoy. But typically

with the genre of horror, a big thing is obviously

atmosphere getting you amping up the tension

that can usually go with that. Now that you're

reading it in a comic form, how did that work

for you? Well, yeah, I love the atmosphere and

I do love dark stuff. I love monsters. I love

like gothic horror. I love stuff that deals with

like the occult and stuff like that, which you

get plenty of here. So yeah, that kind of imagery

is something I definitely love in movies and

they do a really good job of it here. There were

a few elements that were a little too... I don't

know what to call it necessarily, but maybe like,

I don't know, just crazy horror, monstery, you

know, whereas maybe a little more grounded would

have been better. But generally speaking though,

there's some really great horrific moments that

come from that atmosphere and from the setting

that they're in, which is like this noir meets

religious horror type of vision. Yeah, yeah,

especially with like the the empty man the piece

You can see like a lot of like just the gross

test next of it. There's like no specific It's

like the creature design for what there is of

creatures It seems like there's like a lack of

specificity that that you really never really

sure what exactly you're looking at at sometimes

and sometimes that's the detriment I think because

it does lead to a lack of comprehension But sometimes

I think it can make things a little bit even

scarier because you're not sure what you're seeing.

Is it space and reality or is it is it fake or

is it you know a figment of imagination i know

that's something that's that's kind of challenging

because it's the idea of building mystery but

also to the point where you can understand anything

was that ever a problem reading this knowing

that there is you know there was this the empty

man mystery that's like lying in the in the background

or really in the forefront for most of it how

did that mystery work for you did you ever feel

like you were did it ever get to point where

it became too lost in itself Yeah, I don't think

so. One thing that I did notice, and I'm not

sure if this stems from the story or just the

medium itself, but kind of in the way of like,

let's say you're watching some Netflix series

and then it finishes and season two doesn't start

for like a year or whatever and you get to season

two and you're like, what was happening at the

end of season one? I don't really remember anymore.

That's kind of what I... felt sometimes when

I'd like, you know, read for, you know, a couple

hours and then put it down, not get back to it

until like a day or two later. I'd be like, where

was I? You know, and like I said, I'm not a big

reader myself. I've always been more of a movie

guy. So like, I'm sure that's the same thing

with books as well. Any kind of medium that you're

going to be taking an extended period of time

to get through the story. So, yeah, I'm not sure

if that's necessarily this particular story or

something more set to just it being that medium.

Yeah, I think sometimes it's even harder when...

You're doing it on like a monthly basis because

this was a comic that came out in issue form

It was like six issues total. Okay, so like a

tv show like you mentioned like going in between

You know with the tv show typically it's like

a week in most cases, you know with with a comic

It's a month and when within that month, you

probably read other books or or what have you

so sometimes it can be a challenge Sometimes

you're like halfway through an issue and then

you're starting to just remember everything that

came Came before and that's assuming things come

out on time because especially with a this comes

from booms studio which is more of an indie publisher.

But with any publishers, there's often the case

where things can have even a bigger gap in between

them. This one I don't think had as much, but

that can be somewhat challenging when you are

going from one book to the next. Oh, yeah. That's

something I was going to say is I was picturing

like... Man, imagine if I walked home from the

comic store with like 10 comics and I'm like

jumping between them. I just can't imagine how

you guys keep it all straight. And I think sometimes

that is why there is elements of simplicity in

a way, because some comics, I think, don't have

that. But I think when you have an issue or a

story like this, they do try to build in some

previous exposition within the issues to reinforce

plot elements. And sometimes that can be to a

detriment when you're reading it all in one chunk,

because it does feel like taking one step forward

and one step back at times. But I don't think

this does it that much as much as other books.

I think it's pretty good at just keeping it moving

forward. I guess it's going to tie into your

podcast about how you like to look at the different

influences within a movie and what went into

that. Reading this, did anything, any type of

other films that you've watched previously, anything

else come up that you feel like this reminded

you of or you feel like maybe took influences

from? It's funny you asked that because I actually

did have written down here I was going to ask

you if you'd indulge me and allow me to list

a few things that I thought Definitely may have

influenced this comic and like on my show, you

know We obviously don't know for sure what influenced

the the filmmaker But we're just coming up with

things that we think probably were in their mind.

So yeah, I do have a little list here. Yeah Yes,

so Here we go. We got, I've got True Detective,

the series, which is like that tone, that gothic

horror tone. Just very, just pitch black and

very ephemeral and like a lot of the religious

overtones and all that, I'll add into that. And

then also right in the same realm there is Seven.

David Fincher film. Actually, I felt like there

was a lot of David Fincher in this, like maybe

not so much in the like the creatures, but definitely

in the the more modern nor style. Yeah. You know,

then as far as the creatures and the gores concerned,

I thought a lot about John Carpenter's films

of the 80s, a lot of really inventive creature

design, some really cool gore moments and stuff

like that, that he would have done. And then

as far as these characters, like, you know, they're

clearly like losing their mind because of the

empty man. Just a couple examples were Event

Horizon and The Shining, which I think are both

great examples of people losing their minds in

cinema that had to have rubbed off in some way.

Yeah, and I think I agree with pretty much all

of those, especially, I think, the John Carpenter

reference, even within the characters. Like John

Carpenter, he tended to look at creating archetypes

that Would exist but using those to make his

own like a you know, think plus skin, for example

It's clearly there's there's elements of there

within the action movie hero, but he adds his

own flair to it But sure steven king is one I

I saw a lot too, especially in fincher fincher

Like just the tone of it felt very much like

a fincher film the the the procedural aspect

Like it was seven it does in a way Feature that

as you're seeing these two cops go through this

mystery Attempting to solve it with this coming

in front of a lot of disturbing imagery Yeah

case like, you know skin hanging on walls and

obviously there's more mysticism here because

there's more of a supernatural element as well

or you think there is you think there isn't there

possibly be Alien influences hinted at which

sure so there's there's a think it doesn't necessarily

think ever settle on one but in especially the

gothic horror element it did remind me remind

me a lot of like 70s horror films like The Exorcist

or something like that not necessarily in story

because obviously there's no one here that is

well possibly Right here that is possessed, but

I think just the utilization of religion certainly

is a big piece of this Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I'm glad that you agree with a lot of those

because yeah, definitely I see a lot of those

influences in it and and those are really cool

influences for for something like this to have,

you know, they they definitely add up to a cool

combination. And for you, what is like the difference

between like a good use like one? When it's too

much aping someone else's style or someone who

is? Homaging it what to you is typically a good

defining factor where it's being done right over

it being derivative Yeah, that's a good question.

I think it's really a case -by -case basis. It's

it's a hard question to answer because because

a lot of times it could be like totally blatant

and it just doesn't matter. It's still just good,

you know, and I mean, Quentin Tarantino would

be a great example of that, you know, where he's

not trying to hide it at all, but it's almost

great because of that, you know, not in spite

of it. And Yeah, so it's a hard hard question

to answer but uh, you know if something has all

the other elements and there just happens to

be uh You know some pretty clear inspirations

just right on its sleeve, you know, then hey

that that's great Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I think

you're putting characters I think it's a good

example of someone who it's like you're not at

all questioning where that those ideas are coming

from but Right clearly he's not really trying

to hide it either. So that's one thing too. Like

I try to I try to question myself because especially

with comics because comics are so much influenced

by other medias at times it's like okay is this

just the comic book version of a story we've

already read or is this bringing something to

the media that's new and original and it specifically

could work with comics and more so than someplace

else so that's just interesting hearing like

outside perspective of how that's utilized in

the medium if it works as well with within it

or if it takes anything away. Sure sure, you

know, I did have a question and maybe I'm giving

away a million dollar idea here or maybe it's

something that's been done for years and I just

don't know because I don't pay attention to comics

but Are there like audiobook comics? see there

there have been action comics in the sense of

what they do is they take a comic and They slightly

animate it panel by panel adding in like voice

work um marvel does that a lot with different

comics um they did it with like the this one

x -men comic did it with some black panther comics

so it's like it's like halfway in between an

animated movie and a comic book and there's podcasts

marvel actually just started doing a pod or it's

going to be doing i don't know if it came came

out yet uh with through stitcher um through their

premium program a wolverine podcast i don't think

it's necessarily based on any specific comic

but it's I guess in the line of old radio shows

But I don't know necessarily I've ever had an

audio like the audio audible version of a specific

comic book Outside of like people doing it themselves.

You see it a lot in YouTube Well, people will

like put their own words and do it themselves

Hmm, but not through the actual typically dawn

through the the creators And unless it's like

I said like a Marvel or DC property they they

do it usually They used to do it a lot in the

early 2000s when like DVDs were taking off But

I think it didn't really grow as much as they

were hoping it to so they they haven't really

done it as much recently Yeah, because I could

see like that would be pretty fun like on my

phone to have like a story like this one where

it's like You know, you just see one panel at

a time with the voiceover maybe even add some

score in the background And when you know when

the panel's done and you're done, you know looking

at the at the picture You just tap it and goes

to the next uh panel and I thought that could

be kind of cool. Yeah That's a good idea and

I can see if I could find the one that's on YouTube

about that's like that was Marvel did for they

did it for an astonishing X -Men issue and they

did it for forget what else like I said the Black

Panther and They actually had an animated series

that was on like BET for a while That was I think

they try to pawn it off as an animated show,

but it wasn't and did not go over well But yeah,

I think a good Specifically one that is just

an audiobook has never really been done before

To my knowledge I could be wrong Yeah, you you

mentioned you mentioned music and you you having

a musical background I know this might be an

impossible question to answer but reading this

and going through this Does anything come in

your head about the type of music you think would

fit that specific scene? Do you ever see your

feeling for yourself trying to compose as you're

reading? Well Actually, my specialty would be

the kind of stuff that I think would be perfect

in something like this, really darker type of

stuff, mysterious and creepy and weird. And that's

actually the kind of music that I usually make

most of the films that I've worked on. But then

as far as examples in, you know, popular culture,

definitely the True Detective score I think could

definitely fit something like this. That was

the first one that came to mind. Maybe a little

Trent Reznor here and there, you know, but yeah,

definitely that True Detective score is the first

one that came to mind. Interesting. Because I

always wonder that with horror comics, because,

you know, horror is a genre that's so, you know,

music is probably more important in that score

almost than any other. In my mind, I could be

wrong. But even with a comic, obviously, you

don't have that big piece of it. So trying to

build atmosphere is a lot, it's a lot different.

And it's, you know, approach I think sometimes

that it's Can be a barrier for a long time. There

wasn't a lot of horror books in the recent like

I would say since image in any comic boom has

expanded There's a ton but you know for late

2000s or mid 2000s 90s and the horror genre kind

of wasn't what it is now when it comes to comics

because I think it was really challenging to

really do a Effective horror book or it's just

really you know what people didn't want at that

time How many how many comics would you say you

are juggling at any given time? Oh, man, that's

a good question Since I've done this probably

I would probably read around 10 issues a week

usually and then Occasionally in doing additional

graphic novels here and there. I mean issue itself.

I would say it takes about a Decent size depending

on what the arts like 15 minutes or so graphic

novel You know, it could be a lot longer. This

read a little slower than most books, to be honest

with you, just in the... It's not that dialogue

heavy, but it's, I think, pacing, just the paneling

and things like that. It's paced a little bit

slower specifically to fit the story. But usually,

yeah, usually around 10 issues or so a week,

give or take here and there. I'll tell you, the

comic that I've always wanted to read the most

and just... Just never did just because you know,

it's just not something I really do on a regular

basis, but has been The army of darkness comics

and I don't know. Maybe I'll go back and try

to check those out So to get kind of nerdy here

for a second So there's army of darkness and

then there's ash and evil dead and they're there

separate comics come from different companies

for some reason But there's a lot of ash first

evil dead And it's like Ash versus the Evil Dead

versus Jason versus different people. There's

a lot of different mismatching of the Evil Dead

and Ash universe. There was one that was just

recently just Ash and the Evil Dead that came

out earlier this year that was pretty good. But

I'd also say like another book that Colin Bunn

who writes this is reading, it's also writing

a book called Howard County right now, which

is I think. Actually, probably even better than

this because it's like it's this is he's become

more of a seasoned writer It is more old -school

traditional. It takes place in like early 20th

century dealing more with witchcraft and much

it's a different artist, but it's You can see

a lot of what he was building started here and

I think he's kind of perfected it recently with

that book, but I think with this one it's more

it's I think it's a easier one to get into a

little bit because of the Having the noir aspect

as well. But if you're looking for another I

know you said you're not a huge horror fan. It's

not as I would say Go task as this or as Dory,

which is why I steered away it wait for it for

you when it came to recommendation I see that

and then there's a guy who's just all skin. So

maybe maybe that's not maybe that's not true

He loves skin like that's his thing. He's a big

he's big in this kid just using skin as a Maybe

it's a texture of it or something. I'm not sure.

Yeah for sure Was there any other element or

piece about the comic that we didn't talk about

that you had questions about or wanted to discuss?

I don't think so I was interested in the like

the difference between something like this Versus

you know from an outsider looking in traditionally

thinking of like superhero type comics like is

there a As far as comic book fans are concerned

are they mainly Into the more superhero style

things or are they more into these kind of things

generally? So superheroes the big two Marvel

and DC make about like 90 % 80 to 90 % of the

market right now and mostly that is all superhero

stuff there has been a Big increase of creator

own stuff like this Really since The Walking

Dead was one of the big comics that helped like

Robert Kirkman who writes that and and he really

spearheaded the change in the creative own own

stuff and Image kind of turned itself around.

I don't know you mentioned reading comics in

the 90s. I don't like image used to be much different

than it is now I remember the name back then.

Yeah, I remember it was like a cool name It was

like even I'm sure probably part of spawn. Yeah.

Yeah, so it was back in the 90s It was all it

like it was basically superheroes with someone

Different twist of it, but it's now expanded

into much more dramatic series much more genre

-based science fiction crime noir So I think

it's expanding I think like most comic fans like

a mixture of it But still like the market is

still dominated by superheroes in a great deal

I tried it with this steer and that's why I often

when I recommend books to try to steer away from

them for the most part because they they tend

to you know, they get a lot of the attention

where I think some of the best stuff that's happening

in books right now is really not, you know, not

within the superhero genre, not that there's

not good superhero books, because there are.

But I think within a book like this, within a

creator -owned series, you're not really worrying

about continuity. You're not worried about the

fact that you're dealing with a character that

is 40 years old or 70 years old and will be around

for 70 more. So you can only do certain things

with them. And there's a lot of preconceived

notions with that character. So you're kind of

limited in what you can do. Right look like this

you can you know, it's like it's just like with

movies obviously, right? You have franchise films

and then you have a Quentin Tarantino who can

know do whatever he wants and and have have freedom

there and I think within that freedom you get

better better series and more, I think, much

broader artistic approach. So, like right now,

for example, one of the best books, I think,

that I could maybe recommend for you in a sense

of that it's not horror, it's a different realm

altogether, but this book called My Favorite

Thing is Monsters. The title is kind of deceiving

because it's not a monster book, it's more, it's

a book. About a kid growing up in Chicago and

she calls herself she loves horror films, but

it's really just her life and uh, it's really

Really drama first and um, she's growing up in

the 60s in the civil rights area era her Upstairs

neighbor is a holocaust survivor who gets murdered

and it's like all these things surrounding it

But it's through her perspective as a child and

the other thing is that she also sees herself

as a monster for some reason She has like a like

a werewolf type of look to her and it's all done

through pen ink on like notebook paper and it

looks like a gorgeous book it's remarkable in

the the presentation of it and it's to me it's

like it shows that you can do a lot of different

things with the realm of comics because I think

you would pick it up not really Even considering

it a comic because it doesn't really have panel

layouts. It doesn't really have The structure

of a normal comic book. It's just it's a fascinating

to read and it was a first -time Writer who really

never did a comic before and forget how old she

is But it's a remarkable story about the book

before it was ever made we actually got lost

for years because the ship it was on sank in

the ocean and It just recently came out last

year. It's I don't have you ever heard the Eisners

It's like the Oscars for comic books. Okay. Yeah,

but it's probably gonna it hasn't been nominated

yet But pretty much everyone's assuming it's

gonna win the Eisner for one of the I there's

a lot of different Eisner's But the Eisner's

for I think best original graphic novel for when

they get announced Hearing you describe the story

and and the look and everything. I feel like

Guillermo del Toro Row is going to option this

and make a movie out of it. You know what sounds

like right up his alley That's a good point.

Honestly, he's probably the only one that I could

see actually actually doing that and so He could

probably do it justice because he like That's

a good point. I even think about like pans lab

ones when reading it, but now that you mentioned

it I could see a lot of connections there. So

I guess the ultimate question to comes like after

reading this Are you do you think at all more

likely to read a comic again? Or like you mentioned

that some of your preconceived notions were reinforced

Do you think you'll obviously? Outside the aspect

of not having time because you know how challenging

that is You think you'd ever be more interested

in and maybe bringing another book at another

date down the line when you actually have the

opportunity to do so You know, I'd say I'm definitely

far more likely now than I was before we did

this experiment You know, but we'll have to see

if I actually go and pick something up but Definitely,

you know, it was it was definitely enjoyable

reading it and I could see myself Actually, maybe

doing it again sometime soon, you know I just

got to find the right one and something that's

really interesting me or something, you know,

especially I think if it's something like Like

I said, I was interested in the army of darkness

like something that's maybe a continuation or

spinoff or something of some movie that I really

love You know, I could see myself really getting

into something like that But yeah, I you know,

I definitely think I'm far more likely now than

I was before nice Yeah, and honestly if you like

a TV show or movie, there's probably a comic

about it I know it seems that way lately. It

seems a lot of stuff things you wouldn't even

expect. Yeah, they have like the They're doing

a comfy comic for example, and they're on like

the 15th edition of it and uh, and it's also

I guess it's still endorsed by josh weeden and

stuff like that and csi had a comic book just

you know now the quality of all of all those

Is somewhat questionable at times, but right

there's there's times when it works I think licensed

properties are starting to come back and you're

starting to get uh better better books like for

example We're talking about recent comics. One

of the books I read before we started recording

was the most recent issue of the Power Rangers

book. And I was, you know, I haven't cared about

the Power Rangers in a very long time, but I

started reading the series when I came back and

I'm like, wow, this is actually. This is actually

kind of really good uh, and it it like matures

the tone of it to actually make sense for You

know a 30 year old something reading a power

rangers book and I don't feel embarrassed about

it But uh, it's you know, I gotta say last year

the power rangers movie Was actually surprisingly

good. I thought yeah I was not I never grew I

didn't grow up with the power rangers I they

were like right after like when I stopped watching

stuff like that. Yeah, and um Yeah, but I was

surprised I actually enjoyed it. I thought it

was like one of the more fun like silly Action

movies. Yeah. Yeah, I agree Like I think you

got exactly what you were expecting and yeah,

but yeah, it was it was adorable I think the

the comic it's more in line with the classic

TV show but not as like ridiculously corny. It's

still corny enough, I guess. You can't get away

from it fully. Anyways, I do want to thank you

again for taking the time and again, reading

this book and, you know, joining me on my little

experiment. I'm glad you enjoyed it enough and

maybe have you on the podcast again and maybe

you can try to recommend some more books that

would be more in line with some of the, like

you talked about, like the army darkness series

or some of the other things that you're into

and see how that works for you. But again, if

people wanted to get in touch with you, listen

to your podcast, listen to the work you do, what's

the best way to do that? so for myself and my

music at by David Rosen on Twitter or music by

David Rosen on Facebook or my website by David

Rosen calm and then my podcast piecing it together

is at piecing pod it's available on iTunes of

course and all the major podcast apps also on

Facebook piecing it together podcast and Bird

Road is at Bird Road on all of those things to

also on iTunes and everything I will make sure

if you go to the show notes, you'll see all that

listed there as well. So it was great. Definitely

great talking to you. Thank you for taking the

time. And I love the perspective you brought,

obviously. And I'm, you know, I think if you

enjoyed your conversation here, definitely check

out his podcast and maybe grab a live show here

in Vegas. So you guys doing another one anytime

soon? Hopefully. We'll see what happens. We're

going to get there eventually. Alright, well,

thanks everyone for joining us for this week.

Remember that comics are for everyone. The key

is finding the right one. Until next time, thanks

for listening.