Top Five Antiheroes

This is Jason David Frank and you're listening

to the Geek Cash Radio Network. You are now on

the inside of what I like to call the circle

of trust. We are all connected in a great circle

of life. You know something Bert? What? I think

you and I are going in circles. It feels like

we're going in circles. The circle is now complete.

When I left you, I was but the third. Now I am

the last. Because it's a circle. Yeah, we heard

about the circle. Yes, we're familiar with shapes.

Hi, this is Chuck. This is Greg. And this is

Dan. And we are Talking in Circles brought to

you by the Decast Radio Network, the podcast

that is asking to be your anti -hero. Today,

we have a very, very special guest. You know

him, you love him. He's on Geocast Radio all

over the place. MWIRE Weekly, or Weekend in the

Movies, I should say. Mask, POGS, you know, pretty

much any acronym, Kevin's been on it. So, Kevin,

Optimus Solo, Thompson, thank you for joining

us for today. that may be the best introduction

i've ever gotten and the most exaggerating i've

ever seen you do i am sleep deprived right now

so if i sound a little bit crazy i apologize

so that's the best type of crazy for the record

we just treat our guests really well that's nice

and for the record i do have side with both dan

and uh chuck on the whole um geico commercial

Don't know what it is about that commercial I've

seen it a billion times and it's still every

time it plays My girlfriend and I both crack

up and then like for the next two or three minutes

We have to repeat different parts of the commercial

to each other There's like two lines in the commercial,

but yes But thanks for having me I appreciate

it. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, we've done a

podcast together in a long time Dan's gonna leave

us Chuck Dan's going to leave us now. He's going

to go back. Last week it was me leaving you.

I was under a little control there. A lot of

shuffle going on here. I'm going to have to do

this podcast by myself. Talking in a dot. But

today we are doing a special top five. Well,

all top fives are special in my eyes, but we

are going to be counting down our top five anti

-heroes. So we'll be getting into that in a little

bit. But before we get to that, how's the week

been going for you guys? Not too bad pretty busy

with life stuff, I guess you would say but um,

I was watching a little tombstone Before we recorded

this which is my favorite Western. So that was

pretty exciting We're eating a little tombstone

pizza just to kind of you know Yeah, I was I

was telling it what I wanted on my tombstone

Greg how's your week been going? I was gonna

ask Chuck a question or give Chuck a statement.

I'll go right ahead Chuck I'll be your huckleberry

You're daisy if you do. I'm a daisy if I don't.

My weekend's been all right. I went out last

night for once. I know I don't usually do it

that often, but it was, well, I don't know how

to say it. It's not really a double date because

the other person really didn't have a date, which

I felt bad about. They were there being a third

wheel, but I got majorly stuffed on gnocchi.

So it was a great night. It was not a good morning,

but it was an awesome night You what you got

made yourself on one again. I'm sorry. I think

I'm using What is that? You've never had nilki

before Is that a word you're making up as we're

speaking? It's not a word. I'm making up. What

is that? It's loki's illegitimate cousin He's

he's part gnome gnocchi is like this Pasta like

potato hybrid type of thing. It's And it's got

like some red spaghetti sauce on top or gravy

as some people weirdly call it. It's delicious

Interesting. Yeah, I am unaware of that. I I

can understand why that would lead to a bad morning

though. So Yeah, it may clog you up That's an

image I don't Kevin it's been a good week. I'm

in the middle of two different birthday celebrations

I guess cuz my birthday is on the on the 23rd,

which I don't know when this airs but happy birthday

after that Yeah, I don't want to do the math,

but I'll probably be after that. So this past

Sunday, my girlfriend surprised me and got me

tickets to Blue Man Group. Nice. So we got to

see that and then found that up with a nice dinner

and a movie. I guess I've entered the overdrive

state now at this time of the year because it's

like there's only five or six weeks left in the

year. And I swear there's like 15 movies I still

want to see in the theater and another 15 movies

that I missed the first time around that I somehow

have to see in some other form. And so I think

I've seen like four or five movies this week.

I don't know. It's all becoming a blur at this

point. Save up my days off just because I know

that i'll be trying to watch movies in the summer

Right. Yeah Gotta keep it for the important stuff.

But yeah, I can understand that there's there's

a lot still coming out It's kind of and I was

finally able to see the most recent one was I

was finally able to see fury So I missed that

for a little while. How'd you how'd you feel

about fury? Um, it was pretty pretty intense,

you know, there's there's some predictable parts

to it, but uh, I actually Pretty much enjoyed

it overall. I was surprised at uh At how much

I it was kind of one of those movies that I was

somewhat excited for, but somewhat not. I just

kind of on the kind of a neutral stance for a

while on that one, but I'm glad I saw it and

I'm glad I saw it on the big screen. Yeah, I

did. I did enjoy that movie as well. Hey, look,

another movie we agree on. Did you leave happy

or furious? Not furious. No, I left pretty happy.

It didn't quite get to the point. You know, most

war movies are pretty emotional or, you know,

have their their tearjerker moments or whatever.

And I was kind of. happy with the balance this

one struck it didn't quite overdo it to the point

where i've felt you know depressed and wanting

to i don't know hug kittens and puppies I'm going

interesting. Yeah, my week has been rather uneventful

I did give a presentation all day at work today

about staffing models and workflow management

and it is exciting as it sounds just Sounds amazing.

Yeah, it was it was a rip -roaring good time

Yeah, I wish it was I try to I try to give Randomly

enough. I've been trying to get our place. I

work to kind of do like a Dundee celebration

They're kind of maybe doing it. I'm like You

know, so hopefully hopefully I I actually have

a dundee in my desk so I can try to maybe you

know Pass that out. But uh, that sounded really

kinky I've got a dundee in my desk too damn.

Yeah I tried to force that it's funny, but yeah

If you're going to force something, you're going

to force a Dundee. But anyways, we're going to

take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll

be getting into our top five for this week. And

as I mentioned, we'll be asking you if you want

to be our anti -hero. So we'll see you in a quick

bit. Grab your helmets because it's time to assemble

mask mass mayhem is here with your host TF2 and

Mike optimus solo and brand new host tune master

Tim This podcast covering all 75 episodes of

mask will feature in -depth analysis of every

episode talking the toys and more Mass mayhem

will run 30 podcast episodes. You can find us

on iTunes and www .geekastradio .com So get your

spectrums ready as Podcasting is the ultimate

weapon. So let's say you're looking for a podcast

your favorite 80s comic books GI Joe, Transformers,

Ninja Turtles, He -Man, etc. Where are you going

to go to find us? Welcome to Star Joe's Podcast.

I'm your host Ryan. And I'm Chuck. That's right

everybody, we're the Star Joe's. We host a podcast

called Star Joe's Podcast. where we talk about

your favorite comic books, your favorite toys

of all the 80s properties. Star Wars, G .I. Joe,

Transformers, Mask, Thundercats, Voltron, you

name it, we cover it. If it's in the 80s, we

will cover it at some point. Yes, so what you

want to do to find us, you can go to iTunes,

you can go to www .starjoes .com, and remember,

the Force will be with you, because knowing us

is half the battle. And welcome back. And like

I mentioned, today we are going to be doing the

top five, our top five anti -heroes. Before we

get to our list, I know there's a lot of differing

opinion regarding what and who is an anti -hero.

So when you guys were coming up with your list,

was there anything in particular that you considered,

like what you consider when you think anti -hero?

I think you type in antihero into Wikipedia and

then just look at that list and that's how I

came up with mine for the most part. Is your

list in alphabetical order by any chance? It

may be. We don't know. Kevin, what about you?

What do you consider an antihero? You know, looking

over a bunch of different definitions of it and

different examples, for me, what it kind of boiled

down to is that number one, whatever medium they're

in, whether it be, you know, a book, a TV show,

a movie, you really had to sell the person as

someone you were supposed to get behind or someone

you were supposed to like. But they had to have

a side where they were, to me, just being like

a sarcastic Prick or whatever is not enough.

You know, I can't be an anti here. No, no. You

know, there had to be some type of rule breaking,

law breaking or crossing some type of moral or

ethical line at some point with that character

for me, which is kind of what steered me away

from a few people that I would automatically

choose just based on some people's definition.

But I kind of went away from them because I wanted

someone more that had a very kind of defined

past or behavior pattern that You wouldn't necessarily

want your kind of like typical hero that like

maybe you want your kids to idolize or whatever.

Not that I want my kids to idolize anybody, nor

do I have any kids. Your fictional kid should

not idolize these fictional characters. Correct.

Chuck, what were you considering when you created

your list? I just kind of went with like guys

that are characters that generally do good, but

sort of in their own eyes and it's to their own

ends kind of. at the same time they lack those

conventional qualities that we would see in your

supermans and captain americas and stuff like

that just some like uh some of the the human

the human flaws and stuff like that Interesting

interesting. Yeah, I kind of so much you all

said and one thing I also considered were those

characters that necessarily their end goal Maybe

wasn't necessarily positive or if it was positive

they went about it maybe in a negative way so

even if it was someone who you know maybe another

any other movie or any other story they would

be the Protagonist for whatever reason the story

was crafted. So we're rooting for them. So they're

into the antagonist. We know I messed that up

So but anyways, so basically yeah, so anyone

I like similar to what you said and just also

thinking of you know those people that are Going

for a goal. That's not necessarily Traditionally

moral or a moral as you know as some would consider

so Kevin you being the gas of that Let's start

with you. So starting with number five. I know

some people order their lists Sometimes we don't

but you know, whatever way you're doing it who's

number five on your list I actually didn't order

mine this time because when you kind of sent

Sent me the message and kind of gave me the topic

and then kind of said, you know everything's

fair game I had to decide what to do because

Half of me would just do like a complete movie

list And my five would all be, you know, my top

five anti -heroes from film. But I decided to

try to get one from each different medium. So

mine really aren't in any type of order. I'm

going to start off with a TV character. And I

think for a lot of people, he might kind of be

the embodiment of what you think of a definition

of anti -hero. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe some people

have an argue against him. But my first one is

going to be Tony Soprano. Jesus Christ. Mister,

you OK in there? You all right? Are you all right

for me, you fucking cocksucker? Where's my fucking

money? I'll get it. I'll get it. My neck, Tony.

What, do you think I'm an asshole? No, no, no.

No, Tony. I can't hear you. No, no, please. Tony.

You got 24 hours. Call 9 -1 -1. They're on their

way. It's all right. Because he's kind of given

to you. I mean, I wasn't a die -hard soprano

fan. I kind of... just no kind of vicariously,

but, uh, you know, he's kind of given to you

as the main character, as someone you're supposed

to kind of get attached to somewhat. And he's

obviously, you know, clearly not, uh, the most

moral or ethically upstanding individual. So

let's start with Tony Soprano. See, I feel like

that's one keeping hold in my TV viewing habits,

as I have yet to see any episodes of The Sopranos,

even though I own HBO Go. But for whatever reason,

I've not watched an episode. But yeah, I can

understand why Tony Soprano would not be your

typical hero. So he definitely falls into that

line of someone whose goals may be not necessarily

all that positive, you know, killing people and,

you know, having sex with your therapist, not

qualities you want. That's not a good thing?

Again, my imaginary children cannot. Should not

know that. All right Chuck, let's move on over

to you. I'm curious, I know sometimes you've

ordered your list, sometimes not, but who would

you have at number five? Well, let me preface

it by saying I'm not as well -versed in like

the movie anti -heroes and stuff like that. I

do have two from movies and three from comics.

I'm a heavy comics oriented, at least in this

area, but. My number five would be a movie, but

it's kind of a comic, so it's like cheating.

But my number five, I'm going to go with the

movie version of Star Lord. I just think with

him being like sort of in the beginning, he's

more of the anti -hero, like he's kind of a bounty

hunter, treasure collector kind of character.

He's really only out for the money. We see him,

you know doing some questionable things Not really

caring about anybody else and then something

just sort of sparks inside of him. No problem

at all How do you know about this? I don't even

know what that is. I'm just a junker, man I'll

just just check this out. You don't look like

a junker. You're wearing rabbit You got just

an outfit man ninja turtle. You better stop poking

me. What is your name? My name is peter quill.

Okay, dude chill out Why running may have questions

for you? Hey, you know what? There's another

name. You might know me by Star Lord Who Star

Lord man legendary outlaw guys move I forget

this and Later on you start getting some some

of those qualities that redeeming qualities that

kind of make him the right fit for the leader

of the team, but So do you do you favor the movie

version of star -loaded over the comic book version?

In this case, I think he fits more of the antihero

as far as which one I like better I don't know.

I it's kind of a split. I really like them both

I think like I think the comic version is much

less of an antihero because I've seen him do

some pretty heroic stuff Yeah, especially with

him and Nova working together and stuff like

that But you mean, you know starting a dance

battle to take down an enemy is not her Yeah,

and did you see the, uh, the deleted scene released

that, uh, Ronan was kind of dancing back? Yeah.

Uh, and then watching Dave Batiste to try to

dance. That was fun. It's like trying to watch

Triple H run in Blade Trinity. Your body's not,

that's not natural. It's like a hunk of muscle

trying to, it's just, it's just, yeah. It's like

a brick trying to run. Was it, you guys are the,

I don't know if it was, you guys are different

podcasts. I was talking about having a, a top

list of movie runners. There was, maybe it was

in session guys. They were talking about the

worst, like on film, on screen runners of all

time. I think that was us actually. It was a

long time ago. Yeah. And I think I made a mention

that Dr. Who would be the best runner on if you

think. Yeah. I think it was Tom Cruise. I'm not

going to lie. No one can run on on on screen

quite like Tom Cruise. Yeah. And I think I think

even in that conversation we were bringing up

David Hasselhoff. Yes, it's all becoming clear

again. So let's just switch what we're doing

now and we're going to. I actually can come up

with a better list for that, I think. Well, with

with that amount of confidence, Greg, I'm curious

to hear what is what's on your list, what's number

five on your list? I think I'm going to go with

probably a favorite of all of ours. I'm not sure

about you, Kevin, because you're a weird person

on here that I don't know. I'm not sure that

I should even be talking to you because stranger

danger. But I'm going to go with Frank Martin

from the Transporter series. He's a man that's

doing transporting bank robbers and stuff like

that. But he's got his own little set of rules

and he's kicking These bad guys asses and like

he doesn't go too far over the line. He doesn't

murder but he does do some uh Robbery and stuff

like that and he's got an awesome car He does

he does and I think a few weeks when it was the

last week or a few weeks ago. We talked about

the Transporter TV series and I watched an episode.

Well, let me say rephrase that I watched like

20 minutes of an episode and then I stopped because

it was not very It was it was just like this

does not feel it feels just It dirty dirty. Yeah,

you're free. Did it break the rules? It did break

the rules number one rule Frank Martin not being

in the transporter But let's make Rambo, but

with Frank Stallone, it's like no It's not it's

not how we're supposed to roll there but uh,

but yeah, Frank Martin I do like I mean no one

can kick ass with a with a host quite like Frank

Martin which Unnecessarily sounded dirty not

my intention But very nice. So we talked about

Kevin you mentioned different formats and that

was something I consider too and actually my

first character similar to you Chuck is in is

in multiple formats and I don't know which one

I would like better, but they're both kind of

individually. They're about the same though I

think the book version or the literature version

of this character is a little bit more of an

anti -hero than the movie version. And I don't

know if you guys saw this movie or read this

book, but for this character, one of this character's

favorite lines is, you know, Michael Jordan plays

ball, Charles Manson kills people, I talk. I

don't have an M .D. or a law degree. I have a

bachelor's in kicking butt and taking names.

I get paid to talk. What do you talk about? I

speak on behalf of cigarettes. My mommy says

that cigarettes kill. Now, is your mommy a doctor?

No. Well, she doesn't exactly sound like a credible

expert now, does she? Yeah. We call ourselves

the Mod Squad. M -O -D. Merchants of Death. We're

lobbyists for the tobacco, alcohol, and firearms

industries. How many alcohol -related deaths

a year? 100 ,000? That's what, 270 a day? What

a tragedy. I front an organization that kills

1 ,200 people a day. And if you don't know what

that's from, that's from Nick Naylor. And he's

from the book and the movie, Thank You for Smoking,

playing brilliantly by Aaron Heckhart. It's a

movie directed by Jason Reitman. And if you don't

know who the character is, well, it's hard not

just hearing what his occupation is, you think

he would be automatically a villain. He is a

lobbyist for the tobacco industry and his job

basically is to try to sell The image of tobacco

to the general public and the book is really

kind of gets into is a huge political satire

in the movie as well about basically the culture

of Washington DC, the culture of lobbyists and

just that of smoking in general and the way we

can be manipulated by. Aspects of the media and

whatnot, but uh, if you've not seen thank you

for smoking I would definitely recommend it Jason

Reitman You may know him from directing things

like up in the air which was nominated for an

Oscar this year He did like men women and children

Aaron Eckhart is like amazing in that role and

it's a character that each For lunch he meets

with what's called the mod squad, which is the

merchants of death squad It's Nick Neller along

with the lobbyists for guns and the lobbyist

for alcohol that just kind of get together and

talk about how All their products killing people

and like whose product is more deadly than the

next person and like whose job is harder But

uh one of the one of the best moments for the

nick nailer is when he goes into in the book

It's an oprah show but in the movie It's like

an oprah like knockoff show and he's going head

-to -head with a senator played by william h

macy about you know, William h macy's, you know

knocking hard on the aspects of smoking but he

Nick Nailer turns it around and talking about

how health disease is the biggest killer of that

of Americans and William H Macy who's the senator

of Wisconsin and Wisconsin has cheese. So it

is cheese. That's also the killer So he's just

as responsible as tobacco is so it's this is

way of like twisting words and it's he's a character

you should hate but it's just like he has such

a great personality and he's so just abrasive

and so Cocky in that sense that he has a level

of arrogance it but you almost just kind of appreciate

like his brash honesty So it's a character. I've

loved and I love the book and I the movie is

a little bit different, but it's still pretty

good. So Anyways, I will stop babbling along

Have any of you guys seen or read that book or

seen the movie or read the? But I'm glad that

I now have another reason to hate Wisconsin Just

besides everything Sorry, I'm from Illinois so

they're Rivals and all kinds of different things

But I know I haven't I haven't seen that one.

I Do I do like it? It's not a great movie, but

I more so like it for the character and the performance

by Erna Eckhart It's it's a movie that's made

me a fan and made me watch a lot of bad movies

that he's in just because I like him in that

movie including I Frankenstein which is that

looked horrible and it is so That is the Robert

De Niro Frankenstein movie Worse it is imagine

that with awful green screen and then like a

twilight like a twilight like Sadness just threw

out. It's just like this Frankenstein also play

baseball Unless unless you have just watched

the Hercules with Kellen Lutz right before it

I watched that that movie Wow That I was I was

watching that I'm like, how is this released

theatrically? Like why like how is that even

possible? Like it actually increased my enjoyment

of I Frankenstein Man it just makes you wonder.

It's like anyways that off -topic, but Let's

get back on topic with our number four choice

Kevin, what's next on your list? Well, I was

struggling because I thought I needed something

to represent the video game genre or medium.

I shouldn't have because all this does is show

just how ignorant I am when it comes to video

games because I'm sure there's a lot of better

choices and I'm sure maybe some people... You

picked Kirby, didn't you? No, I did not. And

I don't even know if some people would qualify

these characters as anti -heroes, but I'm going

with any protagonist or any of the main drivers

from any... of the Grand Theft Auto games. And

then I'm gonna kill them. That's a good idea.

That's a great idea. And I'm showing my ignorance

by not being able to name them. I think there's

like a Trevor, maybe. Or a Mike. But uh... I'll

go with yeah. Is there a Joe here? I just feel

like, you know, that's the character you're playing

as. That's the one you're trying to, you know,

bring success to. But the whole time you're doing

Repugnant and... You know terrible things that

you shouldn't be enjoying doing so I don't know

I feel like in the video game world That's a

good example of an antihero So you mean it's

it's it's a bad thing to be running over people

but while getting a blowjob from a hooker I mean,

I've never done it. So I don't want to judge

something You mean you haven't done that Dude,

you haven't lived with a sheltered life. Is that

well, I know you are on tinder now. Is that what

happens? All right, so we're moving on over to

Chuck. What is up next on your list? Let's see

next on my list is oh, yes a classic I Don't

know. Maybe everybody's gonna hate me because

this one was kind of a popular choice I guess

but I'm gonna go with Han Solo nice He's just

a great anti -hero to me like he he usually does

the right thing but It's usually because there's

something in it for him himself. And a lot of

you say you say Hansel and they're like, oh,

he's not an antihero, but he's a smuggler. Yeah.

He's not. He obviously has some less than noble

qualities, you know, that keep him from being

your average movie hero. But there is a hit out

on him. He's clearly shot first. Yeah. Yeah.

Cold blood. It's funny because I think you do

see some similarities between han solo and star

lord Definitely within the movie portrayal. Oh,

yeah of that character. So Great. Yes. Yeah,

I mean, there's no doubt he's a popular choice,

but doesn't mean that it's the wrong choice I

mean that he needs to be on here someplace. So

Greg i'm curious to hear what's next on your

list from wikipedia Well, number four, I actually

didn't really get this one. Well, it reminded

me of this character. And then I was thinking

about it this whole time. I'm like, yeah, this

is a pretty good pick. I'm going to go with Sherlock

Holmes, especially the BBC version by Benedict

Cumberpatch. You don't actually think I was interested

in you. Why? Because you're the great Sherlock

Holmes, the clever detective in the funny hat.

No. Your pulse. Elevated. Your pupils dilated.

I imagine John Watson thinks love's a mystery

to me, but the chemistry is incredibly simple

and very destructive. When we first met, you

told me the disguise is always a self -portrait.

How true of you. The combination to your safe,

your measurements. But this, this is far more

intimate. This is your heart, and you should

never let it rule your head. You could have chosen

any random number and walked out of here today

with everything you've worked for. But you just

couldn't resist it, could you? I've always assumed

that love is a dangerous disadvantage. Thank

you for the final proof Because he will be he's

a complete asshole the entire time well until

recently Spoiler alert I like to do the spoiler

after I see He's complete dick to everyone around

him and he will do anything anything at all even

if it's illegal to help him solve the case that

he's on so you end up with the good result of

getting your case solved but there's a whole

bunch of shit that he does during the process

to get that done plus he does a lot of drugs

especially in actual book form of the original

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle books which I have also

read and he doesn't come off quite as dickish

in those books as he does in The BBC version

but he did he does do some heavy heavy drugs

in there Yeah, I mean he's the kind of guy who's

gonna solve your case but like kind of insult

you the entire time Yeah, I love that series

and I believe there's a Christmas special coming

out pretty soon Awesome. That's that's the best

never watched the freaking what's the one on?

CBS or NBC or one of the ever watched it. So

yeah, I don't either don't Yeah Yeah, I've never

watched it. I do love the the BBC one though.

Yeah, it's pretty pretty fantastic Wow, Dr. Strange.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, hopefully we'll see.

Alright, so we're already on down. We're kind

of Going down quickly on this so number three

cab. What's what's next for you? So you have

you have all Grand Theft Auto you have Oh, wow.

I skipped myself unless you don't have enough.

No, I do I have I am all over the place Yeah,

so next on my list Well started with a book.

I'm gonna get into what I call like my movie

face here for a little bit which is you know,

I figured that's been going on for 30 years,

but uh My next person on my list my number four

Comes from a recent movie one of my favorite

favorite films of that year in 2012 I believe

the first time I did a top ten for actually,

you know 2011 the first time I did a top ten

for geek ass radio was what if I named this one

my Favorite film and that movie is Drive and

the character that I'm picking for the antihero

doesn't really even given a name He is just referred

to as the driver playing by the dreamy Ryan Gosling.

He is a stunt driver. He kind of doesn't Really

have he really has more of a mysterious past.

You don't really know what he's up to but he

kind of ends up befriending a family near him

and what makes him kind of an antihero is that

there's an obvious like extreme violent streak

to him if you've ever seen any Nicholas winning

my friend movies is like the dude just loves

violence and just like disemboweling bodies like

it makes Saul look like Kitten Parade, but he's

never really necessarily in a gross way or in

a way that where it's kind of Fetishizing upon

the violence. It's more so just kind of more

of an analytical view to point of it in the way

we kind of can just Really go off the off the

walls with violence, but Ryan Gosling's character

in that he like Chuck you mentioned Han Solo

and you know Han Solo has a coolness There's

no doubt the swagger like Ryan Gosling as driver

does that as well. And I think he's just You

know doesn't say much. He's very uh limited in

his dialogue the entire movie's limited in his

dialogue But it's just he's just a great character

with a great performance by ryan ryan gosling

So, uh, I don't know if you've got scene drive.

I know a lot of people don't like it because

it's it's a lot of style You know, maybe not

a lot of substance, but uh, I just love that

character and he's got the Coolest jacket in

the world that should not be cool, but gotta

give props to Ryan Gosling. Is that an ugly jacket

with a dragon on the back of it? It's a scorpion.

Oh, yeah, that's an ugly jacket, Dan. He's a

good actor to play an anti -hero, too. Yeah,

he's just got that face on him where it's like

you kind of want to punch him in the face, but

at the end of it, you're like, I'd get a beer

with him. Right. I wouldn't get a beer with him

because he'd be getting all the ladies then.

Unless he was teaching you how to get the ladies

like he did in Watch Macaulay, Steve Carell,

whatever movie that was. That was actually a

good movie though. I did, I liked that. Crazy

Stupid Love. Yes, I knew it had three different

words in it. Alright, so now Nott's keeping me,

Kevin going over to you for your number three

What's Next on your list. If I was ordering my

list, this would actually probably be my number

one, but I'm going to do it now just because

I don't want anyone to steal it. But I don't

know, this one could be movies, could be literature,

could be folklore, could be cartoon. This is

technically my cartoon pick. I guess I'll go

with the, he did appear as a cartoon version

in a Disney movie, but any version you want.

I'm going to go with Robin Hood. Men, manly men

were men in tights, tight, tights. I feel like

he's pretty much the definition of an anti -hero.

you know he's he's doing all the good things

but for for the poor but he's obviously still

stealing he's still you know up to no good as

far as his process goes it's one of those does

the end justify the means type thing but uh i

don't know what my favorite version is but i

needed a cartoon version so i'm going with the

disney version of robin hood here i actually

have that funko nearby that pop vinyl It wouldn't

be a podcast unless I mentioned pop vinyl. I

was gonna say it's been a while. It's been a

while Yeah, so you said you don't have a favorite

Robin Hood character Robin Hood movie or product?

I don't know if I have a favorite You know, I

guess the kid in me likes the Prince of Thieves

Robin Hood But I don't know I guess I probably

the Disney cartoon version of him is the best

but but I still think he has yet to be realized

in a way on film or on TV as Kind of what you

picture just by reading the stories about him

or hearing the legends about him I don't think

that's ever quite been realized. Yeah, I do like

the the 19 the 1930s movie that like the Top

of my head, but it's like the Flynn Flynn. Thank

you. Yeah his take on Robin Hood It's really

like larger than life cartoonish, but it's it's

fun. It's a good time You've had a pretty solid

choices so far. You've had Han Solo You've had,

I forget already, because my memory's gone. Star

-Lord. Star -Lord. Star -Lord, you have Han Solo.

So you've been in space. Are you staying out

to the galaxy far, far away? Are you maybe coming

down to Earth for your next choice? I'm coming

down to Earth, finally. And this is where the

list is going to take a nosedive, because trying

to follow Robin Hood is a tough act to follow.

I'll be honest. I didn't even think of Robin

Hood. I'm ashamed. I didn't until like the last

minute. And I was like, how did I not think of

that? I know I felt the same way. And, you know,

I should I should have related to him because

he was the first one to start punishing people

for failing his city. Check on the arrow reference

for Chuck. So we got the pop vinyls in there.

We got the arrow. So I think we're good for a

while. Actually, yeah. I think this is going

to be my next one. I move into my comics portion

of my list now, but my next choice is Venom.

Obviously one of Spider -Man's greatest enemies,

but he also has this weird self -assigned task

of protecting the innocent. you know in any situation

he's like we must protect the innocent and so

it's like oh he's in all these just great protector

and uh crusader to help the innocent people but

then he goes and does these terrible things to

spider -man and kidnaps his girlfriends and you

know brains yeah so he's he's an interesting

character say the least so i'm assuming your

favorite venom is out of two for graze and spider

-man 3 Oh, yeah, I just have posters all over

my ceiling of that Have you read the recent venom

take with flash Thompson as venom like it's more

like that's really good like a The agent venom

thing. Yeah. Yeah, I have not read that. I heard

I heard a lot of good things about it, but Interesting.

So with them being a fan of venom or do you also

fancy yourself as a fan of the you know? completely

on on hero that of a carnage I am big carnage

fan and that's cool too because like That's another

part of this thing with venom is like, you know

doing the whole thing with maximum carnage You

know, you kind of have venom trying to stop them

too So, you know, there's a lot of parts there

were venoms, you know working both sides of the

the good versus evil line Yeah carnage is a great

character too. It's got some great Episodes in

the animated series from the spider -man in the

90s. Yeah, he's up with like him in Iron man

and they're like kind of making fun of spider

-man for like why are you even here? Yeah, that

was cool very nice. All right, Greg moving on

to you What's next on your list next on my list

is a choice that I don't think anybody even listening

to this is probably gonna have heard of and that

is Artemis foul he is this boy genius, and when

he starts off in the series he is kind of evil,

robbing different places through different means,

accumulating a vast wealth, and he also kidnaps

and I believe he tortures a little bit a fairy.

By the way his fairy is police, policewoman.

Ferry is like an abbreviation for their police

force. I believe they have a different terminology.

And please do not judge me for reading a book

about fairies. It is actually a lot more badass

than it sounds. But he tortures, but eventually

comes around and he helps the fairy folk and

all the different mythical creatures. that live

below the surface of the earth. And it's quite

an interesting read. It's supposed to be for

kids, but I recommend it. I read through those

books pretty quickly and he's a great villain

that becomes a hero kind of situation. And lately

in the books, he's becoming a lot more of a hero

throughout. He's kind of advancing here. So Artemis

Fowl is my third choice. What book series was

he's from again? I'm sorry. I missed that it

it's it's just a self -titled artemis foul artemis

foul and then it's like a Another title underneath

interesting interesting. Oh, yeah, you're right.

I've never even heard of that So how did how

did you even get learn about that series? Well,

I was in when it was still borders the bookstore.

I uh I found it on the bargain basement reads.

It was like extra cheap I was like, you know

what for I think it was like four bucks or something

I was like I might as well try it and I picked

it up and it was like Midway through the series

It wasn't the first book and I didn't realize

that and I read it and I read through it really

quick it only took me like a couple of days to

read through it and so I know that's a book that

I really enjoy and that I Can that I have to

read more so yeah, I'm gonna get back to the

whole reading thing I was going there for good

for a while, but then I kind of got away from

it I am reading comics though, if that counts.

I don't know. It does count. It's reading Very

cool. Yeah Interesting. Good poll. Grant. Good

poll. Thank you. All right Bringing it back over

to you Kevin next on your list You are beyond

tired I forgot myself again. And I am running.

See, it's just this whole four people thing throwing

me off. You're your own anti -hero. I am my own

anti -hero. Oh, wow. Jeez. OK. So next on my

own list, do any of you watch? I know Greg and

Chuck, I think you guys haven't watched The Wire.

But Kevin, have you ever watched The Wire by

any chance? Oh, I've heard fantastic things about

it, but I've never seen it. I do. I do enjoy

myself. I do. I'm big fan of the wire. We did

our top five TV shows, you know, like our second

or third episode or fourth or fifth episode This

was my number two and who does number two work

for? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Well, actually

number two might work for Stringer Bell. When

you ask people like the best character of The

Wire, if you do a lot of lists, you're probably

going to see Omar from The Wire. He is kind of

like Kevin, like you mentioned with Robin Hood.

He's similar to that. He is like a modern day

Robin Hood, the kind of stealing from drug dealers,

not necessarily giving to the poor, but kind

of just stealing from himself. But he's a good

example of a great anti -hero, one of the best

characters of the show. But I'm actually going

to go with a different character. You might not

know the character, but you know the actor he's

played by Idris Elba who was just like a lot

of a man You know, you know him. He was in Thor

playing Hemdel. Is that right Chuck? Hemdel.

Hemdel? Hemdel, yeah. Yeah, he was just recently

Nelson Mandela, but he plays a character Stringer

Bell This is probably one of his first breakout

roles back when this show came out And those

who watch the wire might be asking he's not really

a hero and I say that he is he starts similar

to what you were mentioning Greg with your last

choice He starts as a villain really, you know,

he is more of a he's the leader of this drug

brain He's a kind of the point person. He kind

of is the brains behind it But what you kind

of see develop throughout that character and

I don't want to give anything away from who and

who hasn't seen the show but you see him kind

of using that mentality and using the the money

that he gains through that process to kind of

try to better himself in some ways and and who

starts as a very he does some really awful things

like with kind of going with like Tony soprano

like that type of awful you know getting people

killed hitting marking for hits he in all intents

and purposes not a good guy not someone you want

your fictional kids looking up to You say fuck

it and take him. Nigga, you ain't got the floor.

Chair ain't recognize your ass. Take him how?

I don't know. Just let them fake niggas know,

you know, we serious, right? You know, get it,

get got. What? Yeah, like you did on McCulloch

Street last year. Snatched the real estate, load

up and just wait for some shit to happen, right?

Nah, man, we done worrying about territory, man.

What corner we got, what project. Game ain't

about that no more. It's about product. Yeah

We got the best goddamn product. So we gonna

sell no matter where we are, right? product motherfuckers

Product but what you start seeing though is that

you see the reasoning behind it you see how he's

a product of the system that he's in and he how

he is taking advantage of it just as much as

everyone else is he's really not any worse than

you know, the the politicians of that area and

how he kind of becomes more someone you root

for and almost becomes more of a tragic figure.

So I think I think Omar is a great character,

but I feel like he is one of the best TV characters

and just the way he develops and the way you

kind of change your viewpoint of him throughout

the series. So I don't know, some people may

disagree with me, but I really like that character

and can't go wrong with each other. He's just

a great actor, so. He is a great actor I did

see Omar's name on a lot of other people's list

around the internet as far as antiheroes go though

So obviously some antihero potential in that

show. Yeah, he certainly deserves that and I

mean in all intents and purposes I probably would

put them on the list, but I don't want to have

you know multiple characters from the same show

But so that was my number three now. We're already

to the final two already So we only got two more

left Kevin you so you've had video games. You've

did our cartoons you TV with Tony soprano TV.

So I what's what's next? Yeah, we got all these

we got what we got I'd like to go with two movie

picks, but I'm gonna sneak in a comic pick and

I'm sure people that are more better well versed

I'm gonna just use a bunch of words that don't

go together We'll probably think that there's

better comic book characters to pick But I kind

of I really debated between two of them and I

guess they're more of your obvious choice So

that's kind of why I feel bad about it. But when

I blow it down, I guess I'll go with with Wolverine

And I know some people might not think he's an

anti -hero enough and maybe just too much straight

hero, but I feel like out of the kind of some

of the major DC or Marvel characters that he's

kind of one that has more of that edge to him,

has more of that willing to do whatever he needs

to do in order to get to the end goal. But you

guys know comic books maybe better than I do,

so maybe that's a bad pick, but I'm picking Wolverine

as my comic book representative. I think Marvel

has tried to make him seem more PC, more of just

a hero to get more people into him and just kind

of give him a bad attitude. But my classic, more

favorite Wolverine, he's just slicing people's

heads off and not giving a shit and not really

caring. But deep within side, he does care that

he's killing people and that does weigh on his

soul. But he he does murder people like all right.

I'm safe then murder death kill. Yeah Yeah, yeah,

I agree like he was probably you know as a 90s

comic book fan and a fan of the 90 series There's

probably the first anti -hero beyond that of

Han Solo that I ever had an encounter with I

mean, I remember the thing the first time I saw

X -Men or saw Wolverine was in an awesome Jim

Lee cover Chuck. I'm sure you appreciate That's

the one of the early covers from the X -Men series

where it's like him smoking a cigarette and yeah

being a kid at that time I'm like that is the

coolest thing ever. So No, I never did but no

he was he was that I think he was always built

up as that anti -hero I think the smoking the

and he was the rebel for sure. So Yeah, definitely

you could definitely make a case for Wolverine

just an attitude with the way he talks to Cyclops

and the way he kind of rejects authority You

know, yeah, that's kind of why I took him over

the other one I was considering I just feel like

he had a little bit more of an edge and a little

bit more of a Willingness to do whatever break

the rules Yeah, I would say he's definitely more

of an anti -hero in the comic and in the cartoon

than maybe the movies per se I think that's maybe

lightened a little bit. But yeah, I think they're

like Greg mentioned the the heart of Wolverine

is always a anti -hero who's just never able

to kind of fit in the the normal confines of

society, so All right, chuck moving on over to

you. So we staying on earth. Are we again? Are

we going we going above and beyond and going

outside our galaxy? uh, we're staying on earth,

but um This I don't know. I hope i'm not copping

out here. But uh My my final two picks are comic

picks You go with what you feel Go with what

you know. I don't know. I just I had a lot of

movie options that I was looking at, you know,

Jason Bourne's and Jack Bauer from TV and Daryl

Dixon's and stuff like that. But I went with

more of my comic stuff that just just seemed

right to me. But my number two pick is The Incredible

Hulk. Nice. Dr. Banner. Now might be a really

good time for you to get angry. That's my secret

cat. I'm always angry. The ultimate loner, his

famous phrase, Hulk just wants to be left alone.

He's been known to help other heroes, obviously,

many times, but mostly he's doing his own thing.

And when he fights somebody, he has no concept

of... who's near him or property damage or anything

like that. So there's there's buildings collapsing

and stuff getting smashed and there's pretty

good possibility that people are getting killed,

but you don't see that in the comics. You know,

it's kind of hard to believe that everyone was

evacuated out of a building that he just smashed

and it's in a giant pile now. It was abandoned

years ago. Yeah. It's like every building he

knocks down just happens to be empty. Like, I

don't think so. Reminds me of like GI Joe or

the Power Rangers. It's like, oh, thank God that

building entire city was empty. That's, uh, yeah,

I got it. I got to throw the Hulk in there. I

think he's kind of, he's just interested in his

own endeavors. Most of the time, at least, at

least the The dumb hulk from from the days of

old not the smart hulk But well, I mean you even

have something like the world breaker hulk from

a world world war hulk And there's not many,

you know major superhero characters that have

also kind of almost taken over the world quite

like he has and kind of yeah been able to stay

a hero and was kind of almost justified in his

actions, so Hulk's kind of interesting character

because it's not necessarily In his purest form.

He's not necessarily an antihero, but it's like

kind of what society around him makes him be

that makes him an antihero. Yeah. So do you,

do you, uh, I know there's like, do you favor

the, the dumb Hulk over the kind of the more

intelligent, more, uh, kind of the Hulk that's

a combination of banner slash slash Hulk. I guess

I kind of, I kind of favor the Savage Hulk a

little more. You know, when he kind of just loses

it and goes ape shit and it's usually a little

more exciting because you're like, oh, what the

hell is going to happen? Yeah. When he takes

over in the future, is that Mysterio or Maestro

Hulk? Maestro Hulk. Yeah. He's a great villain,

too. So it's kind of like it's a good it's good

to have that one in the background because you

realize, oh, that's what Hulk can become. He

can become that like, you know, the story of

the world or what have you. So yeah, incredible

whole good pick. No doubt. All right, greg moving

on to you. What is next on your list? Next on

my list is uh It's kind of an easy pick. I think

at least uh judge dread This is judge dread Let

him talk in case you people have forgotten This

block operates under the same rules as the rest

of the city. Mama is not the law. I am the law.

Mama is a common criminal. Guilty of murder.

Guilty of the manufacture and distribution of

the narcotic known as slow -mo. And as of now,

under sentence of death. And you obstruct me

in carrying out my duty will be treated as an

accessory to our crimes You have been warned

And as for you mama Judgment time I think he's

one of those ultimate anti heroes of try having

the set of laws and then just killing people

and total disregard doesn't give a shit that

he's killing people and he's essentially breaking

a whole huge human law that will at least it

should be a human law for a lot of people of

killing people but he's doing it to follow the

rules and stuff so I think that's a huge one

side really bad the other side is really good

so Think he's a giant big 50 50 of on the heroic

side Have you read check comics? Are you more

so more so? I'm more taught. I'm I'm involved

with the movie judge art, especially this last

one I really enjoyed with what's his name call

urban? Yeah, I love Karl Urban. So I was kind

of going more with that. I haven't really read

too much on the comic side. I think I've read

one of them and it's a lot of violence to uphold

laws and to do anything to uphold those laws,

essentially. I am the law. So I can't do it.

Chuck, you can probably do it better than I can.

Sorry, I was on mute No, I don't I don't know

anything about Judge Dredd the famous I am a

law from the 1990s I got nothing. Yeah, it's

like better that way. No movie need to see so

Unless you want to see an awesome Robert Rob

Schneider performances. Wait awesome and Rob

Schneider in the same sentence Just exploded

All right. Wow. So we're already at No, I'm doing

mine now Greg you mentioned like last last time

for for your number three that you kind of it's

kind of funny because it's a similar thing happened

to me with this character and it was a book I

found at I think Barnes and Noble and I picked

it up it was the cheap version and like you I'm

like oh this is like the sixth book in the series

so I went back and started from the beginning

and ended up like loving this the series and

The character is called John rain I don't know

if you guys heard of him some people many people

may have not and the book is written by Barry

Eisler and He is the character is an assassin.

He is an assassin that kind of he specializes

in killing people but making it look natural.

He is a Vietnam War veteran who lives in Japan

and he's half American half Japanese and it's

kind of like his struggle basically throughout

living in that world and kind of getting over

his past and there's a lot of people kind of

there's like a lot of similarities between him

and like kind of almost like a Jason Bourne in

a way. being in a world he doesn't necessarily

want to be in but having really no other choice.

He is often used by the CIA as an operative for

different occasions and sometimes he's used as

basically the scapegoat at times as you know

framed and what have you. What makes it really

interesting though is that the guy who who writes

the story, Barry Eisler, he's actually a former

CIA operative himself. So it comes from a guy

who really knows what he's talking about. He's

also an accomplished martial arts expert. So

he writes it in a way that is like Really interesting

with the minutia of what he knows he's coming

from a spot where he actually knows what he's

talking about Because he's actually experienced

this stuff. So just seeing like the amount of

detail and and Chuck I think it's something you

would appreciate I know you kind of like that

that aspect of someone when you can I see the

process and kind of I know it's a book So you're

not a big fan of that He it's just interesting

in his character in that way because he really

gets into something like he'll be going down

He'll be walking in a city street and one thing

that he always keeps track of a few people following

him and it gets into basically all the processes

of making sure you're not being followed and

what that's like when you walk into a Building

when you're meeting someone where you're gonna

sit and why you're gonna sit there and kind of

he deconstructs a lot of the normal tropes that

you see in the spy genre with more reality and

more In with more facts because he's coming from

it. I do that stuff in my everyday life Checking

mirrors and whatnot while driving always. Yeah.

Yeah, so it it's interesting in that and and

then like I mentioned martial arts, too So the

it really uh, like when he gets into the fight

sequences really well detailed So it's a really

great it comes from a really great writer creating

a really great character And there's actually

there was a movie that was me. I never saw the

movie. It was a Japanese film randomly starring

Gary Oldman He was in there as well because he's

in everything and but there's actually you may

hear more about this series because There's a

TV series coming up with gonna be starring Keanu

Reeves It doesn't have a network attached yet,

but he's attached and they think they're just

reading the various Facebook posts They seem

they're gonna get a lot of attention because

after John Wick was was a rather popular movie.

They think they're gonna have have a lot of ability

to really get that sold. So it's a character

you might hear more of in an upcoming future

when that series launches. So John Ray series,

they actually just re -released them, but with

entirely different names. They used to be names

like Hard Rain or things like that. But they're

completely different now, so I don't know what

they're called. But if you just Google John Ray

and check them out, because I love those series.

It's probably some of my all -time favorite books.

Looked at like someone to take over the Bourne

franchise at least when it comes to the writing

the book some people pointed to Perry Isler Because

of what he did with this character. So if you

like the Bourne franchise or like reading the

books, it's a it's a good kind of a Catalyst

to that. So definitely check it out. How awesome

would it be if if Keanu Reeves backed up John

Wick with John rain two movies in a row That

would be awesome And then we can get John Rambeau

and there we go But yeah, so I I do really like

that book yet but when I'm kind of one of the

biggest reasons I wanted to create this list

because of that character and I it's a book that

a lot of people don't talk about and Someone

who doesn't read a lot of books. I can't say

how well written it is, but I find it fascinating

So if you like if you like that type of stuff,

you might enjoy it It was funny that you mentioned

the born stuff because the whole time you're

describing the whole book That's all I was thinking

about was this sounds a lot like the born series

Yeah, it is. I mean there are a lot of similarities,

but it is different though It is in it gets in

a lot of the like Japanese politics which is

kind of interesting and like how corrupt that

is and like the Japanese mafia So it's it's a

good kind of a now. I'm not surprised. Why can't

I reuse is attached to this either? It's funny.

Yeah, it's because he's half Asian. I don't know

not he He likes playing movies where he's Asian,

but he isn't I have like a full beard or something.

It's never trying All right, so we're down to

the nitty gritty. We down to our number one.

So all right, Kev, what is next on your list?

Well, I guess I don't know if I saved the best

for last, but I've already done my video games

and my cartoons and my TV and my comics. So I'm

left with movies. And then the critic didn't

want to like punch myself in the face because

there's so many more probably sophisticated and

critically acclaimed anti -heroes that I could

pick. Just looking at all the ones that I was

thinking about, there's there's so many probably

more intelligent choices than this. but I'm going

with my gut here and what I think is a fun anti

-hero from the world of film, and that is Jack

Sparrow from the Pirates of the Caribbean series.

Welcome to Port Royal, Mr Smith. This dock is

off -limits to civilians. I'm terribly sorry,

I didn't know. If I see one, I shall inform you

immediately. Why, then? I confess. It is my intention

to comedy one of these ships, pick up a crew

and tour to Garede, Pillage, Plunder and otherwise

pill from our weasely black guts out. I said

no lies. I think he's telling the truth. if he

were telling the truth he wouldn't have told

us unless of course he knew you wouldn't believe

the truth even if he told it to you you are without

doubt the worst pirate i've ever heard of yeah

maybe i'll get to say some of the other ones

i was considering because it'll make me maybe

get some credit back but i don't know there's

there's really not hardly a single redeeming

quality to jack sparrow like there's almost nothing

that you could like watch with your my pretend

child and be like hey look at Look at how he

does that that's something you should like no,

but he still comes across as basically the hero

of those movies I don't I don't know. It's kind

of like this weird paradox, but uh, I still think

he qualifies as the anti -hero. So i'm a jack

sparrow Interesting. Yeah, I mean I love him

in the first movie. I mean, he's not that bad

in the second Well, then i'm picking him only

from the first movie Fair enough. Yeah, I like

them a lot from the first one. I I kind of had

him on my Honorable mentions a little bit, too.

I'll be honest He really doesn't body the qualities

of an anti -hero. So that's very true. All right,

moving on to you, Chuck. What's next on your

list? I am really surprised that this one is

still not taken by anyone. I'm going to take

a huge cop out here. This is probably the most

obvious one of all time from the comics. I totally

want to guess. Oh, I totally know who this is.

Squirrel girl. It is the Punisher. Howard's Saint.

It's Satan! He took everything from me. You killed

my son. Both of them. Made you kill your best

friend. Made you kill your wife. And now I've

killed you. I was never like a big fan of the

Punisher in the comics. Like I've never read

a lot of Punisher comics or anything. Obviously,

I've seen him show up in crossovers and stuff

like that. Um, but for some reason, like I really,

really dug the Thomas Jane movie version. I know

like there's mixed feelings out there on that.

And some people hated it and some people loved

it. But I, I really thought Thomas Jane like

nailed that character, like the more of the emotional

part of him and stuff. And like, obviously he's

this really great guy in the beginning, but he

has like this high stress job and then just completely

snaps. goes off the deep end when his family's

killed and you see him go to lengths that he

probably never would have before and it's just

interesting to kind of look at that progression

of him and like how far I guess you'd say how

far he's fallen and like he he thinks he's doing

good and in a way he is he's cleaning up Cleaning

it cleaning up these scumbags off the streets

and stuff But he's still doing this terrible

thing by you know brutally murdering all these

people and it's it's interesting to think about

his character and like Sort of how that just

changed him. I guess that was just such a huge

sudden change in his life Yeah, I mean I'm think

I'm glad someone mentioned him because he definitely

him and Wolverine and Han Solo if you're gonna

talk anti -heroes you have to talk them because

they are like the archetypes of like setting

the bar for anti -heroes so it's definitely you

know with the with the all these different superhero

groups that are getting movies like the Sinister

six or the Suicide Squad or this and the other

I think we should petition for the anti -hero

squad Because I think we've assembled it with

Venom Hulk Punisher Wolverine. I think we got

a good group Just throw Jack Sparrow in there,

just because. Kind of combining your Venom and

your Punisher. Did you ever read the what -if

comic of what if the Punisher gained the symbiote

instead of Eddie Brock? No, I have not. I have

not seen that. That's an interesting concept

because it's like, yeah, he's a killing machine

because he's got the power of Venom. So he's

basically Carnage. Yeah, no, it's interesting.

It's kind of like one of those things where like

he is after his family is killed He's like praying

at the church that you know Peter Parker's that

when he tries to get rid of it So it kind of

ends up pouring over him instead of Eddie Brock

So it's how those fun what if comics could be

so yeah, definitely You know, I know you mentioned

the Thomas Jane one. Are you at? How do you feel

about the other moons like warzone or the the

nakedness of Dolph Lundgren in the 1980s version?

That one, the Dolph Lundgren one was interesting.

It was, I don't know. It wasn't even really a

Punisher movie. It was just an 80s movie. Yeah,

it really was. You're going to get more Dolph

Lundgren comments now. And I'm a huge 80s movie,

you know, action movie fan, but I don't know.

I didn't really care for that one too much, but

the Warzone one was a little better than that.

but not obviously not up to the level of the

Thomas Jane one that I liked. I was really hoping

they kept Thomas Jane. And I heard that he had

some discrepancies with the script and the direction

they were going with it. And he's a very kind

of a finicky actor. Like he doesn't want to do

things that he doesn't agree with and stuff like

that, which, you know, you got to respect him

for. And, you know, he doesn't put his name on

something that he doesn't like. So for some reason,

I just I really love that Thomas Jane version.

Then that that little dirty laundry. Fan made

movie that came out. That was pretty cool, too

Yeah, even like the the Punisher game that wasn't

necessarily related to the movie, but Thomas

James led his voice for it. Yeah That's a fun

game I still play that on occasion because I'm

I can't go beyond like night the 2005 and it

comes to video games and I will say one of my

one of my favorite Punisher moments too was actually

in the Civil War comic when Captain America beat

the shit out of him That was a great moment Nice

nice All right, Greg moving on to you. What is

last on your list? I'm gonna go with a character

that probably Nobody here would ever mention

especially as their top anti -hero. I'm going

to go with Severus Snape Tell me, what would

I get if I added powdered root of asphodel to

an infusion of wormwood? You don't know? Well,

let's try again. Where, Mr. Potter, would you

look if I asked you to find me a bezoar? I don't

know, sir. And what is the difference between

monk's hood and wolfbane? Fame isn't everything,

is it, Mr. Potter? I think it's a great choice

because I picked it. And because he's doing this

good deed by trying to be a spy and get he who

should not be named out of the way, but doing

his duties, he has to kill Dumbledore. Probably

should have said spoiler alert, but I'm pretty

sure everybody has seen those movies except for

Chuck probably Yeah, and and so he and also he's

he's doing it out of love for Harry's mother

and protecting the kid, but also like hitting

them and beating them and trying to keep them

kind of doing an Adrian Peterson of trying to

protect them and teach him right from wrong.

But not getting suspended from the NFL. I don't

recommend beating your children, by the way.

Unless they're imaginary. Yes, exactly. That's

perfectly okay in the imaginary role So it he's

trying to do everything for the right reason,

but then he murders like one of his most favorite

people in the world, so it's rather tragic but

and also very anti -hero like That's a good choice.

Thank you. Definitely I think that's probably

I would say the best character in that entire

series of Severus name. So yeah Plus Alan Rickman.

Come on Yeah, definitely. Alan Rickman, you gotta

love him. Mr. Potter, I can't do it. Nobody can.

And go on YouTube and check Alan Rickman teatime

or something like that. There's this awesome

video of Alan Rickman throwing a fit during a

tea party. It's all slow motion and really awesome.

Very cool. All right, so I am not going to forget

myself and stay with myself for my last pick.

And when I started creating this list, there

was no doubt in my mind that this would be my

number one. It's when I think Antihara is the

first person I go to. When people think of like

Rebel Without a Cause, they think of James Dean.

When I think of Rebel Without a Cause, I think

of Paul Newman, my all time favorite actor in

one of his best movies, and that is Cool Hand

Luke. Anybody here? Hey, old man, you home tonight?

Can you spare a minute? It's about time we had

a little talk. I know I'm a pretty evil fella.

Killed people in the war. I got drunk and chewed

up municipal property and the like. I know I

got no call to ask for much, but even so, you

gotta admit, you ain't dealt me no cards in a

long time. It's beginning to look like you got

things fixed, so I can't never win out. Inside,

outside, all them rules and regulations and bosses.

You made me like I am. I'm just where am I supposed

to fit in? Oh, man, I got to tell you, I started

out pretty strong and fast. is beginning to get

to me. When does it end? What do you got in mind

for me? What do I do now? All right. All right.

On my knees asking. Man, that's what I thought.

I guess I'm pretty tough to deal with, huh? A

hard case. Man, I guess I gotta find my own way.

Have any of you guys seen Kool and Luke? No.

I don't know. A long time ago and I cannot remember

it. I have, yes. Very, very good memory. Because

I was too young. So Chuck, can you back me up

on this one? Nope. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, but

those we first meet Cole hand Luke was just Luke

at the time, like I mentioned, played by Paul

Newman, and he's just in a parking lot, cutting

the heads off of meters, getting the change for

no reason whatsoever. Like, he's a guy who's

rebelling and he's trying to rebel, but nothing

really against anything particular. He just doesn't.

fit in our world he doesn't know how exactly

and uh he ends up going to jail and he ends up

just it's about him and his time in jail and

the time spent there and how he almost becomes

a hero for the men there and he kind of rallies

them there's this like really great scene where

they're laying pavement and uh he kind of rallies

them to like go full -born and like finish it

within What would normally take all day gives

takes like an hour or so So they ended up spending

the rest of the day just kind of hanging out

and chilling because there's nothing else for

them to do And I did use chilling because it

was the 1950s He was chilling and relaxing all

cool and shooting some b -ball outside a couple

of guys up to no good started making trouble

That would have been a perfect uh Would have

been a perfect anti -hero will smith's one fresh

prince of bel -air But no, he's just he ends

up becoming this cult hero like, you know, there's

obviously at the start There's kind of issues

with other people in jail and he has to try to

earn his spot But when he does and then his transformation

from being an outcast to finding actually somewhat

people that he can relate to and then what that

leads to and how it still doesn't really work

for him, but it's Paul Newmanism like I mentioned

my favorite actor and he can pretty much do no

wrong And if I could find a spot to put him in

a top five I'm gonna put him in a top five and

there's no doubt my mind he should go I also

thought of butch Cassidy from you know, butch

Cassidy and Sundance kid another great antihero

He's he's not a lot of great antiheroes but I

just think cool and look is probably one of his

best performances and it's just a really interesting

character and the entire movie is really just

about him and It's a movie. I think that holds

up really really well, even if you haven't seen

it You've probably seen scenes like this famous

line is like I think right now What we have here

is a failure to communicate that line is from

cool hand Luke. You've probably heard it and

It's probably its most infamous moment, but it's

much more than that. So, uh, check it out. I

think it was streaming on Netflix. It might still

be, but yeah, so it is my all time favorite anti

-hero. Dan, Dan, let me pick your movie brain

for a second. Okay. Because you, you bringing

up that character just, just made me remember

another one. I don't know if it would fit into

this category or not, but maybe it would. What

about Andy Dufresne from Shawshank? I mean he's

kind of gets into some shady stuff and I Mean

create, you know creating the you know setting

the the warden up for when he gets out everything

and yeah I could I mean I definitely could see

the argument for him for being an anti -hero

It's it's tough. I mean, that's good. That's

a good question. I don't know I don't know if

I would consider him but I can see the argument.

Yeah, I feel like it's more so like he's He doesn't

set off to be an anti -hero. It's more so it's

like the Hulk. It's so maybe so maybe you can't

make the argument It's him dealing with a situation.

He was put in and he ends up being Such a hero

in that movie. That's like you're like cheering

for him by the time the movie's over So it's

kind of I guess it's kind of hard. But yeah,

that's a good question I don't know, Kevin. I'm

sure you've seen Shawshank. Yeah, it wouldn't

be someone I would think of right away. But I

think with anti -hero, it all depends on how

you define that term. And that's why a lot of

people might not consider it, even though I think

Han Solo is a perfect example. For some people,

it's not anti enough, maybe. But I think he's

a perfect example. So I think it all depends

on how you define anti -hero and what your take

on it is. But I can see him fitting in that,

even though I would not have thought of him myself.

Speaking of other characters is anyone any other

characters we thought of that we did not quite

make our list Kevin I know you mentioned you

had a few yeah. Yeah, I did have a few as far

as the other comic book one I was going back

and forth between Wolverine and Batman Batman

doesn't quite seem anti enough for me. That's

why I kind of gave it to Wolverine He seems like

he has more of the edge and more of a willingness

to just go observe can kill people etc But as

far as my other movie ones, I had a lot the curtain

the crow I thought he kind of is a decent example

of antihero. Mad Max or Mel Gibson's character

in Payback, either one. Or Mel Gibson himself.

Yes, just in general. Tyler Durden from Fight

Club, Marv from Sin City. I actually even had

Hannibal written down. I don't know why, but

I oftentimes was rooting for him in those movies,

even though he was a vicious individual. Michael

Corleone or Ray Liotta from, I know that's not

the name of the character, I named a character

in an actor, I apologize, but either one from

Godfather or Goodfellas. Travis Bickel from Taxi

Driver. Yeah, that's not a good one. I considered

him very much as well. Scarface, V from V for

Vendetta. It's probably a great example of one

and then Daniel Day -Lewis and anything he ever

plays Specifically, I guess if I had to choose

from there will be blood. I just thought of it,

but I can't name a single character that Daniel

Day -Lewis has played It's just Daniel Day -Lewis

Abraham Lincoln, there we go. Thank you It's

like Daniel Day -Lewis from Gangs of New York.

Daniel Day -Lewis from There Will Be Blood. I

don't know what these characters' names are.

But yeah, those were the ones that I was considering.

Chuck and Greg, what about you guys? Couple movie

ones, couple comic ones. Let's see, movie ones.

How about Harry Callahan from Dirty Harry? Nice,

nice. I considered throwing that one in there.

Little Clint Eastwood. Hardball justice. How

about Mr. Rooster J. Cogburn? Nice John Wayne

version, of course See, I do like John Wayne

version, but I'm also a huge fan of the Coen

brothers version of a with a oh Yes, you slay

me. Dan. You slay me I'm sorry. No, I can let's

see Maybe sneak plus skin. Yeah And then my couple

of comic ones. I was thinking gambit maybe possibly

thrown him in there obviously with the whole

you know being in the thieves guild and everything

and you know, and then becoming with the X -Men.

So and then for my last one, I was really surprised

Greg didn't pick this one and that's Hellboy.

Yeah, I guess it sounds like Peter Griffin when

he hurt his knee like. Yeah, very nice. Greg,

do you have any ones that didn't quite make your

list? I got Chevcheleos. from the the um I can't

come up with the name of the movie um uh the

wow crank right crank yeah crank um and crank

two i've got beetle juice um say that again or

again beetle juice beetle juice beetle juice

beetle juice beetle juice beetle juice beetle

juice that's not three times yeah you're safe

okay good this is michael keaton scares the crap

out of me i had deadpool And I had probably a

controversial one of Baron Zemo, but he did go

good guy for a little while there, and I do enjoy

that character a lot. I just thought of somebody

while we were talking, and I only forget it.

Well, anyway, I'll blur it out randomly. Yeah,

some of the lot of the comic ones that have been

mentioned. I also thought of Patrick Bateman

from American Psycho I mentioned that you know

Omar from the wire Also, we kind of jokingly

said this before we started recording but Michael

Scott from the office I do think you can make

the argument that he is an antihero on that in

some ways Maybe even move it Brent from the UK

version is a little bit more of an antihero Who

put pumpkin which is Robert De Niro's character

in? King of Comedy, another Martin Scorsese film.

You have is obviously his role as Travis Bickle

and taxi driver, but that's another good one

as well and then Bonnie and Clyde from Bonnie

and Clyde Also, two great anti -heroes and maybe

we should mention one lady because we haven't

done yet that yet We can also maybe even mention

Catwoman from the movie or even from the comic

book. She's true She is a quite the anti -hero

herself. Plus then we'd have a female in our

in our anti -hero group You need someone you

need someone for the But all right, but before

we go we like to end each episode with a letter

and Chuck you are gracing us with a letter for

this week Are you not I am? It's gonna be a time

We'll hold you to it. I Guess there's really

no way to bring this in so I'll just kind of

get into it Dear global media I'd like to take

some time to lobby for you to stop placing relatively

unimportant news stories in the spotlight so

much In the last two weeks, we've had many newsworthy

stories, just as in any month. But I noticed

in particular that this past week, someone had

the bright idea to attempt to break the internet

with their ass. I'm sorry. I did not mean to.

No, not by sitting on it, which I'm sure would

probably work as well. But with photos done for

magazine. That's right. The Kardashian name is

thrust into the spotlight once more. with the

Twitter name hashtag break the internet First

of all the notion that something like this would

break the internet if or even theoretically possible

is ridiculous Aren't we a little more mature

than this the quick answer? No, not really. I

Understand people are interested in this stuff

just as I'm into comics movies and sports news

But more often than not it is not newsworthy

and it's not worthy of taking the lead in any

news lineup That just somehow disgusts me on

so many levels. There is a place for it perhaps,

but maybe let's keep it in its own special place.

It's an absolute shame that many news stories

got overshadowed by this giant -ass story. A

few examples include the 100th woman elected

to Congress in North Carolina. A terrific milestone,

I might add. Also, scientists discovered a dinosaur

tooth in Malaysia that is 140 million years old.

Significant because very few fossils have been

found in that country, so it was a major breakthrough.

And last, but certainly the most interesting

of news stories, not only this month, but in

many, many years, we freaking landed on a comet.

That's right, NASA's Rosetta mission landed a

probe on a moving object in space 310 million

miles away. Kind of a big deal. Much more fascinating

in my opinion than someone's oily ass. So imagine

my disgust when I began to see how much attention

the wrong thing was getting. But hang on, my

faith in humanity was restored when I learned

that it was in fact the comet story that came

closer to breaking the internet. than the photo

shoot. The Rosetta mission in fact got more mentions

on Twitter around the world, getting over 515

,000 tweets and mentions compared to the 307

,000 for that prodigious posterior. I couldn't

be happier hearing that news. Despite the best

effort of you, the various news media websites,

the interest of the general populace corrected

your gross misjudgment of what we are supposed

to like. So take heed news outlets. It's not

always the celebrity gossip that gets the most

clicks by the general populace Keep things in

the proper place and allow the most newsworthy

stories to flourish sincerely Chuck Jonah Jameson

Man yeah, that's that's definitely true. We that's

it's quite sad It is sad. It's just like, and

I know like obviously the people that, you know,

watch the news closely, heard about the comet

thing, the fact that we landed on a comet, but

it's just got overshadowed so much by something

so incredibly stupid. Yeah. I think I made the

joke of like Kim Kardashian trying to break the

internet by releasing a new photo of herself

as like trying to drown the world by releasing

a cup of water in the bottom of an ocean floor.

Like you're kind of famous for a sex tape. So

what do you what's like? Oh, you know, it's like

that really I don't know what you show in the

world that has not been shown many times before

Well, Kev, I'd like to thank you for joining

us this week. Do appreciate it. Thank you We

added a nice little element to our top five.

I apologize, because I feel like it's my fault

that you tried to skip yourself three times.

How dare you, sir? You threw up this counting.

Yeah. My head was on autopilot, and I do apologize.

But no, it adds a little bit of flavor, I'm sure.

And I think your method of doing it was interesting,

to say the least. So a lot of good choices. You

picked up a lot of ones. Would like to give us

your top five. There's a lot of different ways

of doing that There's a lot of ways to get in

contact with us. You can comment on the episode

post at kikasradio .com or nerdly .co .uk We're

on Facebook and Twitter search kikasradio or

talking in circles. I'm on Twitter at movie revolt

Greg you're at Twitter. What's your Twitter name?

I have the most antihero of Twitter names at

the create Forge And Kevin, you're also on Twitter.

What's your Twitter name? I am. It's at Optimus

Solo. And Chuck is the anti -hero of Twitter.

And so much so, he's not even on it. That's why

I couldn't find him earlier. So question, Chuck,

though. Did you join, just so you can go on and

retweet different comments about the satellite,

about landing on the comet, just so we could

beat Kim Kardashian? I created 500 ,000 accounts

and retweeted it. I was like, I'll show you,

man. It might be a good idea. Yeah, it's a lot

of great ways to get in contact with us Anyways,

that'll be the end of the show for this week.

We'll be back next week same time same channel

same podcast feed, but for now This has been

optimus solo This has been Chuck. This has been

Greg or Kevin All right, what weird And this

has been Dan and we've been talking circles.

We'll see you next week So, does that mean you're

leaving this track? Like, I don't understand.

No, that means I stole Kevin's identity now.

Damn it. He has his online name, but I stole

his actual name, so... He just retweeted it.

I'm gonna have to tell people about my online

name now in real life, damn it. Will the real

Kevin please stand up? You are the antihero pocket.