Star Wars: The Force Awakens Review

This is Phil Lamar, and you are listening to

the Geekcast Radio Network. You are now on the

inside of what I like to call the circle of trust.

We are all connected in a great circle of life.

You know something, Bert? What? I think you and

I are going in circles. It feels like we're going

in circles. The Circle is now complete. When

I left you, I was but the learning. Now, I am

the master. Because it's a circle. Yeah, we heard

about the circle. Yeah, that's what a million

would say. This is Greg. This is Chuck. And this

is Dan, and we are Talking in Circles, brought

to you by the GeekCast Radio Network. A podcast

that's from a land far, far away. Today we are

dedicating our episode to that special movie

that everyone has seen by this point, Star Wars.

But before we get to that, how's the week been

going for you guys, or how was your holiday?

I thought we were going to be talking about Geely.

I was totally unprepared for Star Wars. Geely?

Well, we could go Alvin and the Chipmunks. Did

you see that? No. No. I was not chiptastic. Is

that what it was called? It's a viable name for

that movie. It could really be anything when

you think about it. How's your holiday? My holiday's

been good. Got a lot of fun stuff. Biggest present

was PlayStation 4 where I picked up Star Wars

Battlefront. Highly, highly recommend that and

also Fallout 4. For some reason, Fallout 4 is

much harder than the other games. Don't understand

why, but much harder. And I actually prefer Battlefront

at this point over Fallout, so. Well, I heard

with Battlefront, they were gearing more towards

the general audience with that, because I know

I heard someone on Reddit call it, quote unquote,

casual as fuck, was what they said. So that was,

but hey, I'm in that. I'm a casual gamer, so

much so I don't game at all. I'm probably pretty

casual as well. How about you? How about you

Chuck? Oh, my Christmas was good. I got some

pretty cool stuff. Some tools, some movies, stuff

for my new truck and... We'll just casually leave

that one out there. New awesome truck, Lady Swoon.

Great. And, uh, no, it was nice though, you know,

I got to visit with the family and everything,

uh, got some Christmas... Christmas is about

family? yes christmas christmas is about loved

ones and uh and sharing um love and getting gifts

sharing love please wear a condom when sharing

your love oh whoa you have a family way differently

than i do greg well that one it's more for friends

but i should i should probably not say that either

because you guys you're pretty much my only friend

so that's really it's the gift that keeps on

giving right there how about you dan Uh, it's

about the same. We should be saying we're recording

this live in Scranton, VA because I actually

came up for the holiday, which is kind of nice

seeing everybody. It's a mad dash to see everybody

even though we're here for a week. I feel like

you only see it's like microwave visiting. You

meet someone for like a few hours and then go

to the next person and then yeah, so it's like

it's like speed dating It really is. It's like

you did like a next one timer to go up. Yeah,

so except, you know, what's gonna come up? Yeah,

damn cousin Steve with a body odor. Hi Gina.

No, it's Gina But it's it's been nice we did

get to see Star Wars which we'll talk about and

A lot of visiting time. I did spend reading some

comics. I read a few. I started Descender, which

I think you used to read. Yes, Descender is very

good. You turned into Descender? Yeah. It's Jeff

Lemire and Dustin. I never know how to pronounce

the last name. It's a very Asian last name. Nai

-gyen? Nai -yoon? Nguyen? Win? Well, we can go

with that. I think it's Win. Okay, Win. Very

nice watercolor artwork in there by him. Yeah,

that I've enjoyed. I'm like the first four or

five, as you said, and that's been really great.

I've been, I'm going to be writing an article

like the Top 25 Comics of 2015, so I've been

trying to catch up with a bunch. That was one

of that I heard great things about. Actually,

oddly, I started reading Archie. That is a little

weird. But it's been written by Mark Wade and

drawn by Fiona Staples. It's actually been really

good. I mean, it's it reminds me, you know, how

they read that the day the penis movie the other

day this year and how the penis movie was like

an update, but it was stayed in line with the

original. It seems like that's a lot of this.

I mean, plus she had a staples in her artworks.

Oh, yes, it is. I agree. I've been reading a

lot, which has been nice. I also started reading

the Autumn Lands, which is like super fantasy.

It has warthogs like. And from Warwick Warthog's

doing magic. So I don't know what else you need

in the comic book. And then what else? There's

a few other things. Bloodshot Reborn, and I don't

know. But just basically been reading a lot,

which has been nice. But Autumn Land and Descender

are your top two that you've been reading, it

sounds like. Probably. Archie's been really good

too. And also new book wise. And also Prez from

DC, which is this book. Where it's actually originally

was a Jack Kirby book where this teenager becomes

a president and they kind of updated it it's

a teenage girl through these it takes place in

the future and it's like the the world has become

like It's very satirical. Like there's advertisements

everywhere. They in order for Politician to get

hired they in issue taco Tuesday where they use

drones to give tacos to everybody So it's like

it's kind of crazy all this thing. There's nothing

that goes to say I know it's kind of funny, but

it really so yeah, it's so it's quite It's quite

good, so I would recommend that but those there's

a lot out there and all should have that article

released soon So but I know Greg you've also

been reading so I have also been reading mine's

a little bit a little bit old school with Stephen

King And I've heard of him. Yeah. Yeah, he's

got a couple things out there But the book that

I read is was called Tommy knockers not a big

recommend for me I did go through it pretty quick,

but that was because I kind of want to get done

with it It was kind of a stale Kind of a story

idea of aliens kind of taking over and taking

over people's minds. It's like Invasion or The

Body Smasher. Yeah, essentially. Or that other

one that's coming out. I don't know if you saw

a preview for it when you saw Star Wars, but

it's like the sixth wave or something. Yeah,

I also thought that was... I'm like, oh, this

is kind of like Tommy Knocker. So it's definitely

a very used kind of plot. And plus he adds way

too much in there and it should be heavily edited

down. Not to get too off track, but that... Preview

really reminded me of that. Is it like a remake

of the of they live? Don't know I don't think

they had the glasses thing you could see them.

Yeah I don't think it's based on some like young

adult novel because now the Hunger Games is over

They got to find something and replace it, right?

I don't think that's the replacement. I know

I just always I got angry just watching it. I'm

like this is Makes no sense. We're gonna take

over the planet, but then destroy it Whatever

seems idiotic, but yeah But I don't recommend

that. Something I do recommend, though, I finally

finished it up, is Man in the High Castle. That's

exceptional. Yeah, you really need to finish

it, Dan. It's really well done. Like, we go to

watch it, and then we're, like, too tired, so

we end up just watching reruns of The Office,

because it's, like, just something I have to

throw in the background. Yeah, and you can just

kind of, because you kind of have to pay a little

attention to Man in the High Castle, but it was

really well done, really well acted. the plot

going on and things happen in different characters

definitely keeps you interested the whole way

through does it hold does it seem like it's setting

up for a second season like oh it definitely

is because there's a second season already uh

planned planned for it yes nice nice very cool

yeah i will have to catch up on that like asap

maybe this weekend what have you been watching

chuck Have not been watching too awful much trying

to catch up on Jessica Jones a little bit me,

too I think I'm nine episodes in so I got a few

more of that. So can't really talk about that

Yeah, but but there's a movie that's kind of

linked to one of your favorite franchises of

all times that that you saw recently I've heard

yes, I did get a chance to see Creed Alvin and

Creed but uh now i was super excited about seeing

creed um i was really you know anxious to see

whether they would like screw it up again because

that series has been known to screw some things

up in the past like balboa did you like rocky

balboa i did i mean i did have like some Complaints

about it. But overall it was one of them. The

fact that one guy was named Mason the line Dixon

Yes, that was that was so loans that his names

are amazing sometimes. Yeah, how did Creed fair?

I I loved Creed. I thought it was excellent.

I thought it was probably one of the best Rocky

movies like maybe Maybe the best one since like

the first one. I don't know Wow I mean, I do,

I do like the fourth one still with the Russian

just for nostalgic reasons and stuff, but as

far as like in it, ending the cold war was helpful

if I can change. But I mean, I love the fourth

one. It's probably my favorite, but let's be

honest, the quality really isn't. that high.

Like you can see like the punches literally missing

the guy by like two feet and it's like not even

close. But I will say the one thing I was really

impressed about with Creed was the actual boxing

and boxing choreography and everything. It was

really, really well done. Well, they did a lot

of homework on that and they had some trainers

and stuff that did a great job So much so that

you see the video of Michael Jordan getting Michael

B Jordan and getting knocked out I was I didn't

see the video but I heard about it because I

guess they were actually hitting each other They're

trying to pull the punch at the last second and

I guess the guy Failed at that Knocked him he

went down. Oh, yeah. That's what I heard. That's

pretty crazy. That's definitely hardcore kind

of reminds me of when The guy from Punisher,

the guy that played the Russian in Punisher.

Kevin Nash. Kevin Nash, when he got stabbed while

they were filming that scene in the apartment

and he didn't even know it. He's just bleeding

all over everything. But yeah, I was a big fan.

I liked the story of Creed a lot too. I thought

there was a really good storyline going on there

that some of the other movies really lacked,

to be honest. I mean, you have good fighting,

you have a good story. Pretty good acting. I

liked Michael B Jordan a lot. I thought he did

a great job. He's a good actor. He's not been

in a lot, like he was in, he was in The Wire

the first season for a little bit and he was

in The Profile Station, which is a really good

movie. But this seems like in that other Fantastic

Four movie that kind of came out this year that

shall not be named. Yeah, I don't remember that

one. Have you guys seen that? No. I have. It's

actually like three fourths of a decent movie

that this becomes. awful in the last day. It's

kind of like the Giants play in their football

game. Sorry, I really can't talk because you

guys beat the Dolphins, so I can't. Yeah, that's...

I can talk, though. Yes, the Vikings crush it.

Yeah, it's also like my fantasy season, so yeah.

I don't think we need any of us... Cue the toilet

flushing noise right now. I don't think any of

us fare too well in fantasy this year. I don't

know that we're proud or ashamed or proud by

the fact that my wife won the league before I

did. Congratulations, Carol. You're not playing

next year. You're not allowed back. I feel like,

what's his name in the league? I can't think

of... Ruxon? Dre? The one that's married and

his wife wins all the time? Oh, um... What is

it? Pete. Is it Pete? No, Pete doesn't have a

wife. Pete's the divorced one. My brother's chiming

in, by the way. He doesn't want to be on the

podcast. It doesn't matter. If you watch the

league, you know what we're talking about. Yeah,

he's the one that in real life apparently...

Did not stop 9 -Eleven or something like that.

Yeah, he claimed he had some big deal with 9

-Eleven, but didn't. Yeah, but very cool. Anything

else before we take a break and talk about that

movie that we all watched? I'm sorry about any

jingling. That is also... person butting their

head in, a very small person, black, that lives

with us, named Raisin. If you're confused, let's

clarify this. Raisin is a dog. Not actually human.

No. Not a small, yeah. Sounds like that little

guy from Beetlejuice from Howard Stern's show.

Oh my God, that guy's creepy. All right, well,

let's take a quick break. When we come back,

we'll talk about that movie people apparently

have seen a couple times. Star Wars. The Force

Awakens. So let's say you're looking for a podcast

of your favorite 80s comic books, G .I. Joe,

Transformers, Ninja Turtles, He -Man, et cetera.

Where are you going to go to find this? Welcome

to star Joe's podcast. I'm your host Ryan and

I'm Chuck. That's right. Everybody. We're the

star Joe's we host a podcast called star Joe's

podcast where we talk about your favorite comic

books your favorite toys of all the 80s properties

Star Wars GI Joe Transformers mask Thundercats

Voltron you name it we covered if it's in the

80s We will cover it at some point Yes, so what

you want to do to find us you can go to iTunes

you can go to www .starjoes .com And remember

the force will be with you because knowing us

is half the battle All right, and welcome back

and yes today we're gonna be talking about the

movie Everyone's talking about maybe even to

this day a little bit after it's been out a few

weeks So hopefully you've seen it, but we'll

start with some general thoughts Leave some space

and maybe throw a spoiler section there at the

end to get into more of the nitty gritty details.

But, just some general thoughts. Greg, what were

your overall opinions of Star Wars The Force

Awakens? I thought it was really good, but I'm

not going to give it such high praise that people

have been giving it. I have a couple of gripes,

but still a really, really good movie. But there

were definitely things that stuck out to me as

not liking it. I did enjoy the characters of

Rey and Finn. I think we could say, it's not

a spoiler, that Finn is a stormtrooper that turns

good, I guess you would say, reluctantly, but

a little bit. He doesn't want to be on the run.

He was a First Order defector. Yeah. So that

was kind of an interesting perspective of going

through stormtrooper as kind of... Instead of

just like a smuggler or something else. We're

we're starting off in the nest of den of evil

Yeah with with that so it's kind of an interesting

perspective And is seeing that stormtroopers

aren't all bad And they do have a conscience

kind of thing that was kind of in the first like

15 minutes something that really stuck out to

me Definitely loved the world building everything

looked gorgeous I'm going to disagree with Chuck

and say Daisy Ridley was not really gorgeous.

She's all right. Kind of plain looking, but not

gorgeous. What are you talking about, man? BB8

was definitely a great droid replacement, I guess,

since we don't see too, too much of our friends

R2 and C3PL, but definitely a good replacement.

Very definitely emotive, how they played him

off and everything. So overall, it was really

good, great feel to the movie, kind of reminiscent

of the movies of old, not episodes one, two or

three, but four, five and six, the good ones.

I would still put it below, a little bit below

the original trilogy. Chuck? I liked it a lot.

I was really impressed with how they put this

movie together and like one of the things I hated

about the the new trilogy, the newer trilogy,

was how it took place before A New Hope, yet

somehow all the technology looked like it was

more advanced. And that was one thing, even though

I did enjoy those movies, that's one thing I

always hated about it. And this was, it was really

cool to see them go back to that type of movie.

You see those same droids, you see those same

ships, even though it's supposed to be 30 years

after the Battle of Endor, I think. But it's

just it really takes you back because it's all

those same sort of things. Like even the pilots

are wearing very similar flight suits and stuff

like that. Just the way they communicate, the

way the rebels operate, it's all very, very familiar.

And that was that was definitely by design, obviously.

And it was I think it was a great, great way

to do it. I'm. Like Greg said, we disagree. I

definitely think, uh, Daisy Ridley doesn't have

to use a Jedi mind trick. I already think she's

cute. I don't know. I guess I was hoping for

a little bit more, a little bit more fighting

sort of a late saber battle, I guess, without

getting the spoiler too much. But I was hoping

for a little bit more of that, but that's okay.

I think we'll probably definitely get more of

that next movie considering. The progression

of what where it goes and I have a couple of

grapes like Greg do does which we'll get into

a little bit later, but Yeah, definitely have

to have the spoilers in there for our grapes.

I think I think I Wouldn't put it as high as

the original trilogy either and it's it's probably

right there with Revenge of the Sith for me like

episode 3 because I do enjoy that one quite a

bit So it's it's right there for me. I Maybe

even a little bit higher than that. Revenge of

the Sith is my favorite. Is it really? Of all

of them? Really? Yeah. Wow. That surprises me.

Wow. So even considering the originals, that

would you put that one as your favorite? Oh actually,

no, no, I'm sorry. Which one I was thinking about.

You're taking Return of the Jedi. Six. Yeah,

that's Return of the Jedi. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because that actually might be my favorite, Return

of the Jedi. Yeah. Because a lot of people go

with Empire as their favorite. Yeah. I go with

Empire as my favorite, mostly because of Battle

of the Pop. But for my general thoughts, like

I loved it a great deal. I actually saw it twice

and I think I enjoyed it more than the second

time. I got to like commend like the marketing

team when it comes to this movie because - It's

overload though on the marketing team. That end,

but no doubt. Like the amount of merchandise

that they make with Star Wars is ridiculous,

but more so the - team that made the trailers

and everything and how it was just I didn't even

know the plot or what it would like the story

going into it and that was kind of I think kept

me guessing like I had no idea that the focal

point would be what it is that you know how the

other characters would portray like I just I

had no concept of what was actually going to

happen so that made it quite enjoyable because

I think the one thing that It did the original

well the prequels couldn't do because of what

they were but it brought mystery back to Star

Wars which is something like we never I think

ever had before for our generation because After

we watched Star Wars we could just pop in the

VG VHS of Empire Strikes Back and we could see

what happens next But this is the first time

where we're gonna actually have a couple years

to wait and see Because I think a lot of the

grips you guys we all will get into I feel I

probably may be sure some of them but a lot of

them that I've seen online and seen people like

the major complaints could kind of be addressed

in later films, like the progression, like how

people are able to do certain things. And, but

I think what I was impressed about it, it does

feel very much like the original movies. It's

earnest and it feels authentic though. And the

humor is spot on. The new characters I think

are all really great. From Kyle Ren to Ray Finn

to... Oh, I think I've enjoyed I didn't like

all those new characters. They mix well with

the old cast It looked gorgeous. They did to

JJ Amish credit using combination of Article

and CGI and lens flare. Yeah Yeah, I didn't notice

any lens flare I know that's like that's the

knock he gets a lot, but I didn't if there were

it wasn't he didn't really But there's like there's

some really gorgeous shots. There's this one

shot of like the TIE fighters and it's like a

setting sun that looks gorgeous There's one of

like with uh in the scene where you see it's

in the trailer But the one with the x -wing so

like against the waters are coming in That was

maybe the highlight of the movie for me like

that moment That's that's that sequence was it

was really great And I don't really have many

gripes to be honest with you and it's kind of

crazy considering this movie probably had More

hype than any other movie in history because

yeah Phantom Menace was huge but like the height

machine today is ten times larger than it was

back then and I felt like it lived up to that

height which is Which is saying a lot but kind

of going to the characters in general. Do you

guys feel like they? Did you overall enjoy them

in the fact that in how they fit within this

Star Wars universe do you feel like they're gonna

have the same impact that like a Han Solo does

now with 30 years from Today, do you think a

Poe or a Finn will be along those same lines,

or is it just too early to say at this point?

It's a guessing game. It's like the stock market

almost. You can only take your best guess, but

they seem to work really well in the universe

and everything like that. pretty really well

developed. I think especially Finn for the little

time that we saw him. I thought Poe Dameron was

a pretty cool character and I wish we could see

more of him. So I had no problems with the characters.

in there i thought they fit really well but even

the droid of bb8 was very reminiscent of like

r2d2 kind of thing which you don't get to see

r2 that much in here so he was a great villain

i thought i was impressed in how much personality

they were able to give him just with you know

just this beeping and like just like His head

-bombing. Yeah, his head -bombing. They gave

him a lot of personality from seeing sad to being

excited. And he was very humorous, too. And I

thought the old characters coming in were great,

too. Harrison Ford's Han Solo has kind of grown

into Han Solo, or into Harrison Ford more, because

he seems a little bitchy and cranky and everything.

What's that word? Kind of a... Sarah puts on

them. Yeah, but but then you have Chewbacca has

also grown into a little bit more of a humorous

character I think to kind of even that out a

little bit which worked great Yeah, they still

I mean seeing them work together It was like

just like the old day like this seems like they

just kind of picked up where they left off Yeah,

more so than I would say then Him and Leia. Yeah,

Leia the Carrie Fisher I'm not sure if she had

too much plastic surgery done or what but her

like I'd feel like there wasn't a lot of expression

and her mouth looked like it was CGI'd onto her

face or something. There was something weird

going on. I think she did have stuff going. Even

her voice sounds really off. But yeah, I mean,

I like their scene together when they first meet.

It doesn't seem like they had the chemistry they

once did which makes sense considering where

the movie was anyways But and plus the the fact

that Harrison Ford is dating someone way younger

And he probably has higher standards than Carrie

Fisher And, you know, she could be cooked out

of her mind, because that's, yeah, that's great.

Have you seen any interviews she's done coming

up to the movie? No, I know she's very blunt,

though, because I have read one of her biographies

or whatever. She just, like, clearly does not

care at all. Like, when she's in the, she just,

I don't know, there's actually a really funny

one with one of those morning shows, Good Morning

America, or I don't know, Today, or something

like that. It's actually kind of funny, just

listening her to it. She's like, I don't know.

She just clearly does not. care at all not in

a bad way, but just in the way that she doesn't

hold back, but What were your thoughts on the

characters overall? I think I need to talk a

little bit about like the camaraderie characters,

which I I thought Just the kind of brief time

they had together Poe and Finn built this like

really strong relationship, which It somehow

worked like yeah, it didn't seem rushed like

and I didn't find myself like Saying how are

these guys such good friends? They only talked

for like 10 minutes Like it somehow just worked

and I didn't question it like it seemed really

genuine like the speed speed movies with Keanu

Reeves and Sandra Bullock were there where they

talk about our relationships happen much easier

when the time is stressed. That's true. It's

like the Sip Brothers. It's like, we just become

best friends. Boats and hoes, boats and hoes.

Don't touch my drum set. But yeah, I love their

relationship. And there's, there's a moment where

they hug because they're happy to see each other.

And it's just this really awesome moment of camaraderie.

Cause it's like, you can tell they're like best

friends and it's like, it's just this awesome

moment. I thought it was. something really cool

that was kind of reminiscent of what Han and

Chewie had back in the originals and it was really

cool and then also just the camaraderie they

were building between the new characters and

the older ones like as far as Rey helping Han

Solo fly the Millennium Falcon and I thought

those sequences were really neat because it's

like You know, she really knows her stuff and

she was actually kind of showing him a couple

of things. She spent so much time scrounging

in the desert. Yeah. And there was a couple of

times where he just looked at her and was like,

huh, yeah, she really knows what she's talking

about. And it was just this neat little, you

know, relationship that they had going on. And

you can tell, like, he trusted her because, like,

you got to remember, like, he's a smuggler. He

doesn't trust many people at all. in his life

he trusts chewy and that's pretty much it and

for him to trust this girl so quickly i mean

it says a lot about uh the moments that they

spent in the relationship they built up so that

was really really cool and like even he was even

reluctant to show it where he was like yeah true

he really likes you i was like you know right

yeah it's like yeah it's chewy though okay yeah

yeah and also i'll mention i'll go back to poe

really quick i think possibly Ho was my favorite

character in this movie, other than Rey, of course.

But, uh, I really liked him. I don't know why.

He just seemed like really genuine in his excitement

and his enthusiasm. Like he's obviously he's

a, he's a rebel pilot and just his enthusiasm

as he's flying, he's obviously like their best

pilot. And it was just really cool. Like his

attitude was, it was sort of like a a mix between

like Han Solo and like a, like a head coach giving

a rah -rah speech at halftime or something. Like

he was just, I don't know, he's really energetic

and fun. Like I would just, I would like to hang

out with this guy. He seems really cool. He'd

be like Steve Rogers of Star Wars Universe or

something. Yeah. And I really liked how he kind

of got to see his skill with the X -wing fighter

too. Like, and you see like, fins on the ground

it doesn't he doesn't realize it's him flying

the x -wing and he's kind of like he's like wow

that is one awesome pilot you're seeing him do

all these crazy things that we didn't get to

see kind of in the in the original trilogy like

you just see them flying down the tunnel of the

dust star and like you didn't get to see the

capability some maneuvers they could list lazily

to the left yes Um, but you see this, this awesome,

like fight sequences, like kind of dog fighting

in midair. And it's like, wow, that was really

cool. And, uh, just the whole thing that, you

know, Finn was a great character too, just the

whole thing with him. And he brought a little

bit of sort of comedic relief, like a little

bit of goofiness at times. Like, but he was a

good guy. I really liked his character. Like,

and it was believable how he just wanted to,

uh, you know, do the right thing. because of

sort of what he was forced to do and how he grew

up and everything but I thought everything just

worked really well. I thought it was kind of

interesting too like how with the character of

Rey and Finn and like you feel like Finn is like

the okay he's the new Luke Skywalker in a way

and like how it kind of develops and I don't

know if that's still I guess too early to say

but it feels like it almost like it was the purpose

in that way where you think okay he's gonna be

the guy would go to but maybe that's not the

case but yeah so i thought that at first too

and and then i kind of thought something different

as the movie went on so yeah i agree with that

how do you think the i mean obviously star wars

is known for its iconic score how did you feel

like the like new music and the old music blended

do you think it was you think there's any of

the There was new music. I only noticed the old

stuff. Yeah, that's all I noticed too. I didn't

really notice. John Williams stuff. Yeah. There

was, I mean, I think Kyle Ren had his own little

theme, if you notice, every time his ship would

appear. It's definitely more noticeable seeing

it the second time. And there's also like, we

talked about it with a... Resistance shows up

for the kind of the first time in force. There's

a new introduction to them I knew with their

like theme which I thought was quite good as

well But yeah, I mean it's it's a classic stuff

that kind of holds up and I loved how they used

it like Sparingly, I thought like they didn't

kind of rely on it too much specifically Not

to spoil anything, but there's a moment where

like I caught an iconic image or piece shows

up and how it's kind of played in the background

a little bit But yeah, I thought it was quite

good Do you want to get into what we didn't like

at all? Could you get into any gripes without

specifying it spoiler -wise? That's what I was

thinking, I don't know. I think I could do one.

A, they shouldn't have done it as early as they

should have and I don't think they really should

have done it all except for in one scene, but

I didn't like Kylo Ren taking his helmet slash

mask off. I thought that kind of ruined the character.

For me, at least a little bit. It made him a

little less dangerous feeling. Uh, yeah, I can

get behind that. Yeah. Cause the guy, the guy

was playing Kylo Ren good looking guy, but it

doesn't seem villainous. Yeah. Yeah. That to

me made him a little bit more interesting of

a character because he's not a Darth Vader where

he is all powerful. He's just, he's still kind

of. He's not where he should be I guess like

he wants to be this he's He's torn. He necessarily

is not as Sure of himself as a Darth Vader. He's

not as powerful as a Darth Vader He's got more

of an internal struggle that he's still kind

of running from so I found him I found him more

intriguing like I guess like you said, yeah He's

maybe not as threatening as a Darth Vader. Well,

that's what I found interesting about him was

that it's this guy that so wants to be something

that he's not and It was knowing that he's wearing

that mask by choice made it evident that this

is a character. This is a person who Clearly

doesn't he is trying to pretend like he's he's

living Kind of a pretend role or he's trying

to embody someone else not embody like himself

like basically he's wearing a mask physically

and figuratively and literally because He is

unsure of himself. Are you saying that this movie?

broke the fourth wall and was connecting with

all, most of the fans that went to see this movie.

Maybe. Kyle Ren to me seems like he's a different

type of Sith Lord. He's not Darth Maul. He's

not Darth Vader. He is kind of almost like where

Luke was in like the second film, but more so

on the dark side where he's this character who

he doesn't have control of where he should be.

Or maybe like more like Hayden Christensen. In

a way, maybe like this, his, he kind of. Kylo

Ren is probably where Haiti Christian should

have been in the prequels because he you know

He's still kind of developing into that evil

side. That's really evil Sith Lord What's interesting

though is that the beginning of Force Awakens?

He's very intimidating. Yeah, make him look very

formidable and you see him Pull off this sort

of feat that I've never seen done before which

was awesome. Yeah, really awesome and it It really

leads you to believe like, wow, this guy is powerful.

Yeah. And then. You know, some some things change

to kind of keep you on your toes, but I thought

that was kind of interesting that they started

off the movie like that, portraying him that

way. Yeah, I felt like he became, as I say, that

when that awakening happens, as he failed more

and more and he saw that he was, especially when.

Other people come into play per se like you and

he has the kind of he starts kind of doubting

Yeah, we're in a way that like that's one you

see because when he takes off the mass for the

first time I think it was to him to prove a point

but I ended up going the opposite direction of

Where'd he where he thought it could go? But

I mean I could I definitely would agree with

you that he's not I get emitting force that he

like yeah, and I guess that's what I was specifically

looking for is somebody menacing and stuff like

that But I do think the scene on the where he's

on the bridge. Definitely. He should remove his

helmet and stuff I felt like that was fitting

there. Yeah, my like I guess my major gripe or

my like the one thing I'd say was that it does

feel like I mean the original Star Wars is the

same way the pacing of it not that it's bad but

it just like it seems like it's just point to

point like it's almost like you never truly get

your bearings in a way like you like it just

doesn't stop to take a breath and for the most

part it just i don't know what you said like

you thought there'd be more action like i don't

know if there's like that tremendous action set

piece that's going to be the battle of the hawth

or like even like some crazy jedi battles i think

there there are some really great moments but

i guess i action scene wise i don't know if there's

one that's going to be On par should be star

skirmishes not Star Wars. Maybe maybe but I did

like though how it did stay with the trend of

the original Star Wars where kind of just drops

you off and There's so much going on that you

still like you don't know who Snoke is he like

they're like the first Republic but the first

order like it you're just playing like you you're

just in this world playing catch -up like the

original start where is it kind of just didn't

really explain much it just kind of said this

is this is what's happening you don't it's go

back and I know if you guys went back and we

watched the originals but it's interesting we're

seeing them and realizing that there's so much

that they did not even go into until like the

later films that we kind of makes the first shows

better but like at the time you're like I don't

know how people would even Like the force is

something that like it it just it was like well,

it's it's a thing they just kind of created and

didn't really but uh I think we'd have to go

into spoilers for the other gripes. I think that

we have Yeah, yeah, but so do you want to do

that part now? Or yeah, so what we'll do right

now is you've been warned there's from We're

gonna get into specific spoilers. So you've not

seen it for the three people that have yet to

see star wars, uh, I guess Stop listening and

maybe come back later, but we're gonna get into

the more specific details of Spoiling the hell

of it. I refuse to acknowledge that there's people

in this world that are Listening to our podcast,

but I've not seen Star Wars My dad has seen Star

Wars and he sees like a movie a decade I would

I would be doubtful. There's that many but Alright,

so you've been warned if you're not listening.

It's on you. That's all I can say So Harrison

Ford dying, that's a thing that happens. But

no, so I guess we'll start since we're on the

gripes then let's start with say with the gripes.

So what are some of the specific gripes that

you had a problem with that? My biggest issue

with the movie was the development of the Force

powers especially with Rey and how they have

kylo ren so decked out with his powers he seems

he seems more powerful than darth vader with

some of the things he's doing like stopping laser

bolts in midair and keeping it there like it

was paused on a tv screen or something yeah it

was that was really sweet and he didn't even

have to concentrate to do it he was just doing

other stuff so that that made kylo ren seem like

such a badass but then you have ray coming along

and she's starting to Develop her force powers

and she's doing Jedi mind tricks when back in

the day Luke Skywalker I was having like issues

right off the bat and she seems to develop into

a Jedi master Within a span of like what a day

two days maybe where it was taking Luke and what

seemed like years especially between the movies

well the original one if you think back to it

like when he the key His development was honestly

not that much different than Ray because he Becomes

their main pilot by the end of the movie and

he never but he he's used to piloting though

to certain extent but like I mean I would say

yeah, there are some extremes there like uh But

I guess I didn't I didn't really have the issue

that issue with it. I think it's so certainly

a complaint but I think especially with her beating

Kylo Ren at the end of the movie like they should

have Kylo Ren did get shot beforehand and was

injured But I think he should have been way more

injured to head like something definitely way

more wrong with him to be losing that battle

the way he was to somebody who Does not have

anywhere near the experience that he does. Yeah,

I can see that complaint I guess my defense of

it would be a few things like he said he was

hit with He was injured, not just injured, but

he got like a shot right to the stomach with

Chewbacca's gun, which we were seeing throughout

the movie that was like basically mowing guys

down. So legitimately could be near death with

that injury. I would need to see his guts spilling

out to be effective, where him shot a couple

of times. Also, I mean, he did get injured too

a little bit by Finn, who, you know, he probably

was... Obviously a trained fighter being a stormtrooper.

So he got a little bit more injured there and

truly really started like if you go back to it

like when they were fighting At first it seemed

like it was evident like similar to when Darth

Vader was fighting Luke Skywalker He was manhandling

him but Kind of just he's trying to basically

hold back as he wants to try to convey bring

her bring her over to his side bring here Well,

he didn't do that until the last second after

he was fighting her for a while and discovered

that she could use a t -shirt But if you remember

in the movie his Snoke says bring her to me alive

Like his job was not to kill her was to bring

here, but he was in such rage. It seemed like

he didn't care about what Perhaps I mean he did

just kill his dad which could do that to you,

but I mean I guess too and she only started winning

when she Completely gave herself over to the

force because you remember like he said something

about how are you doing this? And then she kind

of Basically focused us. Let's go and then let's

the force which by the way when she's focusing

like that He had all the opportunity in the world

to come through and slice her because it was

like a long pause there again Which goes back

to me thinking like he never had an intent To

kill her like he wanted to he saw potential in

her that kind of bring her onto her side So,

I mean, I do think it is convenient in that way

that like that's the thing with the force. It's

such a it's so Abstract that it's like magical.

Yeah, and it also can like that can Somewhat

be explained in the next film like we're talking

with luke saying this is why you're able to do

this it was odd, but I Guess I I was such a fan

of her as an actor and character that I it never

really even crossed my mind Honestly, like I

was like it's a little odd that she's able to

kind of handle this but it's kind of similar

to like Been a menace where Obi -Wan somehow

can stand toe -to -toe with like Darth Maul,

which again Not that movie is his own problems.

I guess you could say too. Like if you think

about it, it's sort of that final fight scene

is sort of consistent with how Kylo Ren was behaving

throughout the rest of the movie because you

see someone that is very easily enraged and throws

a tantrum like a small child. And you see that

rage sort of cloud his judgment. Like he can't

harness that rage into the dark side of the force

and use it as power. Like it just consumes him.

And he kind of like you remember him slashing

the console repeatedly with his lightsaber and.

You see in the battle that maybe him sort of

losing it too and sort of losing his head and

not being able to keep up with Rey and finish

her off like he normally would if he was kind

of more collected I guess you could say. I mean

that sort of makes a little bit of sense. Yeah.

Another thing I wanted to point out too was actually

if you look close at Kylo Ren's lightsaber There's

something a little bit different about it Yeah,

and it's and it's not just the fact that there's

two things coming off the side of the hill Which

had no purpose whatsoever in the movie except

to burn Finn a little bit which did not justify

There's something behind that I think because

I read something that And I tend to agree with

this but if you look at his lightsaber blade

It looks very very unstable If you look at it

very closely like a kind of staticky at the edges

instead of it's very shaky unstable Sort of looks

like an old TV. That's like, you know kind of

Going in and out. But if you looked at like Luke's

Lightsaber that Ray was using like and all the

other lightsabers from Star Wars movies. They're

very They're very clean and stable because nice

glow because their power is very stable and they're

very comfortable with What side of the force

they're on and I think that sort of instability

in his blade? reflected how Unstable he was his

psyche and and really uncomfortable with what

side of the force he was on because we see him

struggling with Should I go back to the light

side the dark? So I think that really kind of

came through in his blade, which didn't make

sense when you look at it in the trailers. But

now after seeing the movie, you're like, OK,

I can totally see that because those crystals

we know are are known to reflect sort of the

persona of. of their master. Well I have a question

for you since you went on off on that. When do

you think he started questioning it? Because

I don't really get where he started questioning

it. It kind of just randomly came up that he

was questioning it. Right before, when he was

talking to the melted Darth Vader mask. Okay

yeah, I saw him doing that there but I felt like

there should have been something before that

to get him into that questioning it. Instead

of just him in front of it questioning. Like,

was it something he was doing with Poe Dameron?

I think it's about knowing his dad, once he realized

his father was a part of it, like, knowing that

his... Yeah, because I think he sensed him before

that or whatever. But yeah, I remember him saying,

like, you know, I feel myself being tempted by

the light side, which is weird because, like,

usually tempted by the dark side. So he's, like,

you know, speaking to his grandfather and saying,

like, you know... Show me the power of the dark

side so I can stay with it and everything so

you see him kind of struggling Because if you

think about the entire movie was about finding

Luke Skywalker, which is obviously the Kind of

the focal point of him turning so also the other

gripe Luke Skywalker for like just a little bit

at the end of the movie not saying a word Pause

on Mark Hamill, spin around in a helicopter,

and stay there. Good. Ironically, the guy known

for voice acting didn't say anything. They had

time during that whole sequence. They could have

given Chewie some medals. But the time movie

was about finding Luke Skywalker. And I think

the closer he became or the closer that throughout

that bio was probably the questioning of it,

because it's... you know, knowing that he's either

going to have to face him in one way or another.

I think that scene was basically just letting

you know that this is a character who is conflicted

just in general. Like it seems like he is, like

I said, goes back to that, you know, he is unsure

of himself. Like that's that. I don't think that's

necessarily thinking that that moment that we

saw was the first time he he's done that because

he says show me the of we can think of something

like show me the dark side again or the power

of the dark side again which tells me that that

was something he maybe did on the on the regular

like he often uses it's like his performance

enhancing drug uh for the dark side I don't know

if this is a little off but even in the beginning

when when they attacked that village with the

stormtroopers and Finn's character we didn't

know it was Finn yet because he still had the

helmet on but he had the you know the bloodstain

on his front and you see him kind of pausing

and not wanting to shoot people which it's weird

he gets a land mission when he's actually just

in sanitation he's just a janitor so how does

he get to go down to the planet as a stormtrooper?

Guess everyone takes a tour You gotta earn it

the hard way I guess but basically school vacation

guy our school trip guys. Let's go down to the

planet But when you see Kylo Ren walking back

to the ship he stops and he looks over at Finn

and he sees him standing there not doing anything

and Under normal circumstances you would think

that he would single him out and punish him for

not doing something. But maybe we see him kind

of questioning himself there because he literally,

he looks away and just keeps walking. He doesn't

do anything to Finn. So maybe that's kind of

where it starts. And that made me think that

it was something, like he was... like force aware

or something like that although i don't know

if he really is like then like if he's gonna

become like a jedi or something it's i don't

doesn't seem like he has has that yeah it doesn't

seem like he has it like they were trying to

make you think he had it at the beginning but

it was definitely right the entire time yeah

yeah which i still love the the one moment of

her of him trying to get there of uh Force pull

on the lightsaber and she grabs it. Yeah, that

was a pretty yeah. That was sweet. Yes a moment

Speaking of we go back to her head and mention

it the death of Han Solo Any issues with the

fact that they're killing a major character like

that in the first? Coming back to episode 7 no

because it strengthens the movie more and I think

It gives it makes Kylo Ren seem even more evil

Than he is It gives it a little bit more heart

to the movie gives a martyr to the rebel cause

yeah Everyone knows the legend of Han Solo. Yeah,

they find out that this guy killed Han Solo,

it just kind of rallies the troops. Plus it brings

in these newer characters and kind of helps rally

around something, this older hero of theirs getting

shot down and everything. What did you think

of the scene of itself? It was a bit odd, I think.

I thought it was extremely predictable, to be

honest. I was actually surprised by it. Oh really?

Yeah, I was surprised. As soon as... Han Solo

walked out onto that catwalk. I was like he's

dead I'm like they're gonna kill him and he's

gonna fall over the side just like you know You

know just like all the other characters in the

past fell off the catwalk I thought at least

his hands gonna go like at least yeah, yeah,

I I don't know I just saw it coming at that moment

and It kind of it bothered me that he didn't

get the Didn't get to see Leia again, but I mean

they had their little moment before I before

he left I guess it's also weird when they do

get back Chewbacca isn't the one to go up to

Leia and kind of tell her that Hans dead It was

kind of yeah, like she sensed it from Ray and

then went over and gave Ray a hug. Yeah I thought

the moment itself worked really well. Yeah, it

was kind of predictable. I felt like once They

had that showdown, but I don't know I kind of

went back and forth cuz I'm like, all right Well,

maybe he isn't gonna die and then Okay, yes,

he is and then they're like wait no so I went

back the symbolism was great too like when because

they're waiting for the weapon to be charged

up by the solar energy and Right at that moment

when the light goes out. Yeah, and sort of the

darkness falls that's when he kind of Switches

it was like that symbolism and that's like when

his mind kind of went dark and that's when he

did it That was kind of cool like a little little

touch of the face as if it falls over to yes

But I think it falls in line too because I mean

Star Wars since beginnings always had a huge

obviously thematic focus on family and father

-son relationships and in general and kind of

how that of choice and how they kind of impact

your choice of What you choose to be as a person

so I thought it made sense and kind of a new

way to do it where you have the the father trying

to save the son where Return of the Jedi we had

that flip of that. So I know that's another complaint

to talking about Is a lot of people go back and

say well if you look at this plot structure of

it It's basically just a dressed -up version

of New Hope like in a lot of ways. There's a

lot it is Kind of, you know, you start on a desert

planet. You end with a Death Star like thing

being destroyed. Star Killer, which is actually

Luke Skywalker's, wasn't his name was supposed

to be in the original trilogy and George Lucas

was still writing it. Yeah. So, and I don't,

I think, I think it's actually a smart thing

to do where it's going back to New Hope and using

that as a, literally as a guide to how this movie

works out. But what did you think of the Star,

the Star Skillet, wow, Star Killer base was it?

I thought it looked pretty neat, to be quite

honest, with it just looking like an actual planet

and then just having this kind of strip through

it of a deadly machine, I guess you would say,

and it's sucking the life and the energy out

of the sun. I thought that looked, visually,

it looked pretty awesome. I thought it was pretty

cool. I mean, I guess you could, like, some people

are saying it's kind of like, it's just like

a gimmick. Like, it's exactly like A New Hope.

But they just made a team better by saying, oh,

look how much bigger it is than the Death Star.

But I don't really have a problem with it. I

think it works. I think it's really cool. The

Death Star was the size of a moon. This is the

size of a planet. They should have had some sort

of iconic line, though. Like, that's no planet.

That's one thing, too. I wonder if there will

be any iconic lines that come out of this. I

don't know. We did have the repeat of some of

the classic ones from the originals bad feeling

about this. Yeah I did like that. That's not

how the force works line though. Yeah one of

the thing I wanted to mention too, I forgot was

another tradition that this kind of carries on

from the old movies is that like a young Jedi

Or young Jedi to be needing to experience some

sort of loss for them to move on with their training

Yeah, so you like you have Obi -Wan seeing Qui

-Gon Jinn killed in front of him. You have Luke

seeing Obi -Wan being killed in front of him

and you have Rey seeing Han Solo being killed

so it's sort of that rate of passage like you

need to experience that loss to kind of show

you your path and What you need to do and kind

of keep you grounded in things like if you've

never experienced any loss Like, you know, maybe

you can't become a great warrior like that or

a great leader. So Didn't even didn't even think

of that that makes that's yeah I know the big

theory with ray is that She somehow connected

to luke and someone me obviously it seems like

she has to be You think that is the case that

she's gonna end up being luke's daughter It's

a possibility That could be why he didn't speak

for so long when he died. I owe so much child

support. If that's the case, I want to know who

the mother is, who was Luke's wife. I think that

would be interesting too. Was she adept in the

ways of the force as well? Because if that's

the case, then... That would kind of explain

why Ray is so powerful. It's actually two parents

that are it's actually Luke and Leia Well in

a new hope in Empire they were kind of a little

friendly maybe they yeah, they still had that

going even That would that would definitely add

a twist to the movies you guys so I think the

love triangle and this one's gonna be between

a Finn with Rey and Poe they're gonna be or you

know, that's gonna be the person yeah, I think

the like as far as like the Skywalker family

so to speak like The whole you know Star Wars

Series has always been about the Skywalker family.

Yeah and sort of their power and how it's how

it's kind of passed down to each generation and

You can see how like You can see regardless of

his problems. You can see how powerful Kylo Ren

could become you can see his potential and that

was with only having One parent that had an inclination

for the force, you know with his mother Leia.

So if somehow If somehow Ray is the daughter

of two parents like like I said that could explain

why she's so powerful But I do think she has

to be connected to the family in some way because

I think it carries on the Skywalker name again

on this next trilogy I wonder if it's gonna be

something like because we talked about how she

seems to do everything naturally if it's something

I don't want to say clone, but something where

it's more manufactured. Like she's not... Luke

actually bore Rey because the midichlorians gave

him that ability. Just like Anakin's mom had

gotten pregnant by the midichlorians. I think

Luke got pregnant by the midichlorians. Part

of me thought, because it felt like Kylo Ren

knew, like, was aware of her or something because

there's a line in it where it's like they escape

with the girl and he's like, what girl? It seemed

like he... Don't know it felt like she he was

Thought she was someone there's kind of was aware

of her some way I don't know if that's the case

or not, but yeah that's for Possibly it could

be I mean if they related that'd be weird Well,

they did it in the first movies yet again keeping

if they want to keep tradition alive incest is

it gives a thing to keep in the films for sure

Which should be weird thing that tradition to

keep I'm upset that no one got their hand chopped

off New Hope, they didn't want to get their hand,

no one got their hand chopped off, right? It

wasn't until Empire. That poor bastard in the

bar on Tatooine. Oh yeah, yeah. I don't know,

I mean major characters, I see what you're saying.

I guess maybe because what, Hayden Christensen

lost his arm in the first, in the second movie?

Yeah, and Luke lost his in the second. So the

second one, we're gonna lose an arm here. Rey

has to have a hand cut off in order for her to

become a great Jedi. That's the key. It was weird

that he had like a robot arm like Luke like it's

like because he had the normal arm for such a

long time Like a robot arm Anything else you

wanted to bring up or talk about? Yeah, let's

let's play battlefront Let's just comment quickly

on the Not really comment, but just mention.

I guess that I guess Kylo Ren's real name was

apparently Ben Solo So apparently they were naming

him after Obi -Wan I guess Did not even pick

that up. So it was interesting that they kind

of chose him to name their son after. Obviously

he had a big influence on them. I thought it

was interesting how they dropped that knowledge

that it was his father though because it was

just like your dad and like almost like you're

supposed to know it beforehand and like did that

Yeah, you would think it would be a better reveal

like in the moment like when he and Han like

confronted each other like you think that would

be a better reveal at that point maybe but I

don't know. Yeah, but then you had the conversation

with Han and Leia so it Plus the whole thing

with Darth Vader's helmet where he actually says

grandfather. You wouldn't have that. One small

other thing I thought about too. I don't say

the new Yoda, but the character, they go to the

new bar, and I can't think of her name, with

the weird glasses. Maz? Maz? What did you think

of Maz? Liked her character. Yeah, that was she

was fun. I don't think she's exactly a replacement

for Yoda. She's She's definitely her own thing,

but I wouldn't consider a replacement for Yoda.

She's like him. You can't replace Yoda, right?

She's like him in the fact that she's like a

thousand years old and she's very wise I did

like how they had the little bar scene with the

band playing the music. That was pretty cool.

I did like the new song that they were playing,

and that was pretty cool. And I guess there was

a lot of, like, in that bar, there was a lot

of callbacks to different characters. Like, you

probably noticed there was that huge fat thing

with that, like, girl. That, actually, that character

is in the one Journey to the Force Awakens comic

that's out right now. She's like a bounty hunter,

and then there's a... The one guy he was leaving

with friend was living with that wasn't red Apparently

he's a well -known character as well. So there's

a there's a ridiculous amount of different like

easter eggs and callbacks and stuff like that

apparently that uh, What's your name? I can't

remember already, uh, but maz maz he jj aprams

modeled her after one of his former teachers.

I saw that yeah, which is like She had thick

thick glasses on and everything. That's funny.

Yeah I did like Mosse. I thought they introduced

her in a smart way where like she, you know,

her first line is, where's my boyfriend? And

he's like, Chewie's out back. So you kind of

know it's like, oh, right. Well, she likes Chewie.

So obviously she's a good person. Right. Yeah.

And how does that work out in bed? It's another

question for people to think about. It's more

of an intellectual relationship. Yeah. Yeah.

They use the horse. So, um, that was interesting

to her a little, like when she... That's the

thing with like Star Wars as well There's a lot

of convenience things where she just happens

to be at that spot where the lightsaber is also

downstairs Yeah, well that moment was cool too

like when you kind of hear You hear all these

sounds you hear the screaming and stuff that

kind of lures her down there Yeah down those

steps, and I don't know if this is what they're

going for but the first thing I thought of when

I heard those screams was Sort of the cries of

the Padawans when Anakin basically slaughtered

them all in the Jedi temple. And I felt like

visually it was kind of reminiscent. I thought

it was going into kind of the same thing of Luke

going down into the cave on Dagobah to confront

Darth Vader. I thought that was kind of. And

she was kind of she wasn't confronting Darth

Vader, but she was confronting the future, I

guess you would say, in the past. Kind of the

knowledge of kind of being able to. let go and

Not lie to herself thinking her family is going

back for her and then all the you know Like the

tragedy tied to that lightsaber, but then also

the good things tied to it It's like here's the

lightsaber your father killed 30 kids with it

Alright anything else before we end this episode

I don't take that as a no. So lots of ways to

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or Twitter. And we're also on Twitter. What are

your Twitter names? I am at The Crate Forge.

And Daisy Ridley can reach me at Herokage. And

I am at Movie Revolt. But that'll be it for this

week. We'll be back next week. Same time, same

channel, same podcast feed, but for now. This

has been Chuck. This has been Greg or Ben Solo.

This has been Dan. We've been talking in circles.

We'll see you next week. Sadness.