Interview with Kelly Thompson on Kate Bishop and Marvel’s Hawkeye

This is writer Kelly Thompson and you've jumped

inside the pull bag only on GeekCast Radio Network.

I retire for what like five minutes and it all

goes to shit. Hello and welcome to So You Wanna

Be a Hawkeye, a new miniseries exclusively on

the pull bag and studio 2009 here at the GeekCast

Radio Network. This series is going to discuss

all things Hawkeye delving into both Clint Barton

and Kate Bishop in the comics and then in the

Hawkeye Disney Plus series premiering on November

24th, 2021. I am TF2 and Mike. Joining me is

Allison Sky Richards, who came up with this excellent

idea of a miniseries. Hello, Allison. How are

you? I'm doing well, Mike. How's things going?

I know. You almost said, how are you this time,

didn't you? I know. I really, really, really

tried to figure a different way to put it out.

So for those that don't know, Uh, for those that

haven't seen my Facebook or aren't friends with

me, I keep my Facebook stuff public. I don't

care. If people want to see it, they can see

it. I don't care. Whatever. But if we're not

friends on Facebook and you didn't see this,

I haven't really made a podcast announcement.

I've kind of alluded to it the last couple of

episodes, which at this point of recording are

probably not even online yet because I haven't

edited them yet. But my lovely wife, Karen Blanchard

is in the last throes of death. She is, um, Non

responsive completely. There's nothing they can

do She had a battle with alcohol she is and was

60 something days sober except for organ its

multiple organ failure is what she's dying of

liver and kidneys Well in order to get transplants

you have to be sober six months They said she

could make it that way and then it just kept

declining declining declining The last I knew

it was three months. And then when we put her

in hospice, a couple of days ago, as of this

recording, the hospice nurse, when she came to

check her in, basically said she has days, if

not weeks. November 5th, 2021. Add that to the

worst days of my life. And I'm sorry to bring

this entire show down because we have an illustrious

guest with us tonight. A returning guest, you

may know her. From her work on IDW Publishing

is Jim and the Holograms. That series still needs

to continue, damn it. Money More from Power Rangers

Pink, which I believe is a review that I did

with my buddy Jesse Raz and will be an episode

after this, I think. Marvel's Hawkeye Private

Eye, West Coast Avengers, which I have just started

reading. I haven't gotten too far into it, but

I'm loving it so far. In the current runs of

Black Widow and It's Jeff, welcome back to the

GCRN, Kelly Thompson. Thanks for having me, Mike.

I'm incredibly sorry to hear that personal news

of yours. I wish there was anything I could say,

let alone do. I'm so sorry you're going through

that. Thank you so, so much. Yeah, thank you

so so much hugs going through the microphone.

Yeah, the interwebs and popping out your speakers.

Oh, stop poking me in the side. Allison, what's

wrong with you? That is a whole separate podcast.

Allison poking people through speakers with sticks.

They're arrows. I sort of I'm sort of really

like that. And now, or that imagery that's creating

for me, this idea of what we're listening to

sort of being so powerful that it's a physical

manifestation. I sort of love that. It's very

gem to me. Yes, yes it is. It's very hologram

-ish. And the crazy thing is, and this is so

off the wall, and I know this is our episode

with you to talk about Kate Bishop and all that,

but because we've gotten into all of this, I'm

just going to let it ride. Uh, the other day

before Karen came home from the hospital and

before she got sent to hospice, I was sitting

here at my desk. I was just sitting here watching

something or preparing something. I don't, I

don't even think I was editing. I literally felt

a hand on my shoulder and I could hear my aunt

Rose who has been dead since 2003. I could just

hear her voice in my head, and I hadn't thought

of her in at least a few years, and immediately

I messaged my cousin Heather, who was her daughter,

and I'm like, when did your mom die? Wasn't it

sometime in October of 2003? And she told me

the, you know, the date and whatever. I'm like,

holy crap, it was a week ago. Like, wow, like,

you know, at that time, it was a week ago from,

and I'm like, yeah, so the whole... physical

manifestation of audio, I fully believe that

that's a thing. Well, not only that, but also

most Wiccans will tell you that the veil is thin

at Halloween time, so it's easier for you to

contact the dead. I don't like having conversations

with zombies, thank you very much. But I love

Jesus. I think he, I think he pronounces it.

Hey Zeus. Okay. So this is your baby, Alison.

This is all about you and your, your Hawkeye

love. Take it away. One moment. Go, go, go. Can

ripple across space and time giving birth to

new heroes. I can't go home till I fix this.

Look, I know this may sound weird, but I've dreamed

of this for as long as I can remember. When I

put that suit on, I thought, this is it. This

is the moment I become who I'm supposed to be.

Yes, so... Hi, Kelly. How are you? Hi, I'm good.

I'm good. It's great to meet you. Thanks for

having me on. Yeah, same here. It's it's been

fun like talking with you on Twitter for the

last couple. Hold on. Sorry. My cats are being

butt heads. I have that same kind of thing. I

feel you. Yeah, so um no it's just been great

talking to you for a while now almost like a

year or two over Twitter and finally You know

being able to put a voice to the picture Well,

of course, if you listened to my 2015 interview,

you would have heard her voice by now. Why are

you sleeping on all those great interviews? Too

many episodes. Yeah, there are. It's always funny

to me when I find I just went on a podcast for

the first time with, rather, I mean, with some

new people that I hadn't ever podcasted with

before. I just did an interview with them a couple

of weeks ago and I saw a lot of people um talking

in the response to them saying I was going to

be on saying oh my god does she do those interviews

I've never heard her voice before and all this

stuff and all I could think was I've done so

many podcasts. How have these people never heard

my voice? Like so many podcasts are on so many

different channels and platforms and everything

because I don't really do video or live appearances.

That's, you know, podcasts and interviews are

sort of all I really do. And it was just it's

a it's a funny example of how you think you're.

Broadcasting you think you're sharing you think

you're getting out to people and there's still

just huge swaths of them that have no idea what

what you sound like what you're doing what your

books are it's it's such a weird bubble to live

in with the internet where you feel like you're

reaching people and you are But there are just

all these people you can't even see. You can't

even know that they're out there. It's wild.

Yeah. Well, I also use my excuse that I've been

in grad school for the last three years. And

this year I'm in a teaching residency. So I don't

have time. I really haven't had time since 2017.

And on Allison's other podcast, which isn't on

the GCRN, the Fortress of Bailitude Superman

and Lois tapes, they tried to pawn it off like

she was on some super secret mission, like she

was going to go stalk Tyler Hawklund or something.

I did that at DragonCon? That was after you revealed

what your super secret mission was though. Yes.

I have two master degrees. Well, no, sorry. One

master's of fine arts with two concentrations.

One's creative writing and one is screenwriting.

Cool. Very cool. And now I'm going to become

a middle school writing teacher. That's interesting.

Yeah. It's like that's where I got my love of

writing and characterization. That's a very formative

time. I think you're right on the money there.

Yeah, and I, you know, being a student teacher

this year, you know, I'm seeing all these different

students, they're like, they're getting into

D &D for storytelling, you know, they're, they're

video gamers, and all of them are connected through

the art of the story. And I want to be able to

be able to look at all their different passions,

and teach them how they can encapsulate that

and use writing as a tool for a career in the

things that they love. No, I think I think that's

a I mean, I know schools changed a lot since

I was in elementary school, I'm sure. So maybe

it's a little different, but that was very true

for me. I think it was I mean, I'd always wanted

to be a writer since I was little. Like even

before I was going to school, I was like making

little books out of construction paper and stuff.

But it was in I think sixth grade that I wrote

a short story. We all had to write them for some

project or something. And my teacher was like,

you wrote this and like she I mean it was like

I'm sure it was terrible but I was in sixth grade

but it was to her for my grade level it was incredibly

creative and she was very surprised by it and

she was very encouraging and I think it was probably

the first person that made me think oh maybe

I have you know this is what I want to do this

is what I love but nobody's told me I'm any good

at it before like you know that was the first

time and Like, obviously, I got there eventually.

So, you know, thanks to her for sure. Yeah, same,

same. I my first fiction story was in seventh

grade. It was like semi fan fiction because I

took the characters from. from the movie My Girl,

and I threw them into the movie Toy Soldiers,

which are completely two different genres. And

then instead of having terrorists, I had aliens

invade. And so that was my very first one. And

my teacher, she loved it because I didn't stop

at the one page limit. I think I wrote like,

and this is handwriting out, at least 10 pages.

Yeah, that's funny. Let me tell you what, I low

-key love Toy Soldiers and never in my whole

lifetime did I think it would be a movie that

anyone ever brought up to me on a podcast, which

is hilarious. I will also say that, yeah, that's

a very formative time. I think that's a pretty

cool time to be catching kids who are really

figuring out who they are and what they're into

and their creativity being really boundless.

Right after that year, I moved and we moved to

a much bigger city. I had always been in advanced

English classes or honors classes, whatever.

When we moved, the teachers were like, you know,

she's in a much bigger pond now, you know, so

do you want her to be the dumbest in the smart

class or the smartest in the dumb class? And

my parents were like, well, we don't like how

either of those sound, but okay, I guess we want

her to be the smartest, which I appreciate that

so much in my parents who are incredibly lovely,

supportive people who I'm sure only didn't want

to, they didn't want me to ever be hurt, but.

In retrospect, I hope they look back on that

and go, why weren't we trying to challenge her?

Because like, why didn't we have faith in her?

Like, when I hear that story, I find it funny,

but it's a little disappointing. And of course,

the end to that story is that within the first

week, when my parents went to the teacher conference,

the teacher was like, she needs to be in my honors

class. I don't know what she's doing in here.

And they were like, oh, good. There was like,

there was a bit of a concern. And so yeah, so

I got moved to the honors class where there was

a lot more creative writing going on and that

was that was a big class for me that was what

eighth eighth grade ninth grade and that was

a big class for me where I really I think it

was eighth where I really started to push into

creative writing a lot so again a great teacher

who recognized that I had a passion for it and

was really encouraging yeah I I didn't get a,

like my mom supported me a lot. My brother and

my dad really never understood what the whole

writing thing was about. But when I got to high

school, all I wanted to do was write and that's

all I did in any of my courses. And so my math

teacher realized that I was writing an 80 page

Western in my notebook instead of doing my algebra.

And he just looked down here at it and he's like,

okay, first of all, horses weigh more than 400

pounds. Secondly, you're going to need to see

me after class. Third, I'm taking this because

I want to read it. Wow, that's nice. That's nice.

We have very similar trajectories because in

high school, I did all my comics writing. whole

books of it and sometimes screenplays. I wouldn't

say I ever finished a screenplay because even

back then, I was so interested in dialogue. It

was mostly just scenes, but I didn't know how

to format it because it was before the internet.

I didn't know how does it look, how's it supposed

to look. Whether I was trying to describe actions

in a TV show or a movie or whether I was trying

to describe a panel, I just didn't know how you

were supposed to do it. I would just see in my

mind what I thought it was. and then I would

just write what I thought the dialogue should

be. And I wrote reams and reams, filled multiple

was a repeat, and then French 2 and French 3.

My French is very bad as a result, and I have

a lot of really, really terrible early Kelly

Thompson dialogue that she thinks is great. Wait,

wait, wait, wait, wait. You mean to tell me you

can't say that you're truly outrageous, Jim,

in French? Probably not. Truly outrageous. Those

are tough, tough words. I mean, I can say like,

my name's Kelly. You were friends, like stuff

like that. How do you get to the library? The

only Spanish I remember is what I learned from

watching Encino Man and that scene with Brendan

Fraser in the Spanish class. That's funny. I

wanted to do similar with the comic book stuff,

but I had a art teacher when I was taking art

and trying to learn how to draw comics who basically

told me that I wasn't going to get to go anywhere

with my writing. I should just work on art instead.

And I was just like, well, okay, you're going

to be the villain in this novel and I'm switching

classes. That's funny. I think I had very encouraging

all through high school, all through those years

we were talking about and then through to high

school, I was in creative writing and I submitted

to the literary magazine for the high school

and things like that. I think I only got one

or two pieces in, but I was very encouraged.

She was a very, the creative writing teacher

in particular in high school was really great.

It wasn't until I went to college, which I ended

up eventually transferring to SCAD, Savannah

College of Art and Design, to focus on sequential

art. But the first college I went to was the

University of Arizona, which is not a particularly

great school. I mean, it's fine, but. you know,

and they didn't have a particularly great art

program. I was sort of an art major, but I was

also thinking about being an English major. And

I had this basically an English 101 class, and

I not only hated it. But the teacher, he was

terrible. He was uninspiring. And he was totally

uninspired by my work, which, you know, that's

fine. But I will say it was shocking how much

that derailed me. I mean, I would say that that

teacher, after having a lot of teachers who really

supported me and encouraged me to keep trying

and keep working on it, that guy being desperately

unimpressed with me, really set me off a path

where, I mean, set me back years, I would say.

Which is not, I'm not trying to put all the blame

on him. I mean, a lot of that comes from, you

know, as a person, you have to learn how to take

in what people give you and use what you can

and be strong enough to believe in yourself and

push forward even if not every person is like

rah rah rah because not every person is going

to be whether they're just dicks or whether they're

genuinely just don't think you've got it but

you know you got to be you got to be stronger

than that for yourself if you want to make it

through some creative industries like we're in

so Kelly, I swear we have got like the same trajectory

for a very long time because my English 101 class

and I had a teacher who was I was trying to learn

and interpret poetry and she was very much a

Your interpretation must match my interpretation

or you're doing it wrong. No, that sucks. Yeah.

And like to the point where my classmates were

even defending my interpretation of a poem and

she still gave me a C at the end of the year.

And that just threw me off the entire English

program. I didn't want to be bothered with it

anymore. And I went to journalism instead with

the communication so I could still write, but

But yeah, any any career I could have gone through

college with my writing was shot. Yeah, going

back to it like 20 years later. Yeah. But I mean,

I don't know about you. But when I look back

on that, my regret isn't that I took that class

and that he swayed that that he didn't like me

or didn't like my writing or whatever. My regret

is that I was too easily swayed. I had so little

confidence in myself that I couldn't even handle,

you know, one person sort of being like, no,

you don't got it, you know, and so I really let

his criticism valid or not just sway me so much

and I if I could go back I'd still take that

class but I just make different decisions afterwards

you know yeah that that said I ended up at SCAD

which is where I should have been anyway and

you know it was great and obviously I eventually

made it here and it's going pretty well so you

know I can't be too regretful about it but um

I think it's great that you're going to be teaching

kids at that formative age. And I think it's

great that someone who's had very similar experiences

to what I had, ups and downs, as far as that

goes, that's going to make you a great teacher.

Thank you. And hopefully one day I am going to

get some of my stuff actually published. I'm

sure you will. Maybe one day they will let me

come and play with a Hawkeye. I mean, I never

thought I would, so you never know. Well, speaking

of our favorite Hawkeyes, why don't you tell

our listeners a little bit about your history

of working with our favorite Hawkeye, but not

the Hawkeye. So, Kate Bishop and you, what's

going on? Hawkeye was actually one of my early

projects in my tenure at Marvel. The first thing

I started doing at Marvel was a co -write with

Kelly Sudokanick on Captain Marvel and the Carol

Corps, which was part of that Secret Wars story.

And then I did some A -Force, which I took over

from G. Willow Wilson. She'd had some family

commitments or something come up, and so she

wasn't able to complete the book. So they brought

me on. And so that became sort of my first big

series. It was a for the first couple of issues,

but then it was mine. But of course, that got

canceled at 10, and so we were done. But at that

time, ever since I had worked with Sana Amenat

on Captain Marvel and the Carol Corps, I had

been talking to her about Hawkeye, because even

before I got the call to do Captain... Captain

Marvel and the Carol Corps, I had been developing

a pitch called Hawkeye Investigations, which

was supposed to basically pick up sort of from,

even though Jeff Lemire had had a short run in

there, it was sort of supposed to pick up off

of the fraction ideas with Kate in LA as she

was trying to be an investigator. And so that

was the basis of the pitch. and Sona really liked

it and she was really interested and for a while

the timing wasn't right and then eventually we

got there and she's like okay we're gonna do

it like let's you know we're gonna make it happen

and so she started developing the pitch with

me. You know, I think that that book was really

strong. It was perfectly cast with Leonardo de

Romero Leonardo Romero drawing and Michael Walsh

was our alternate artists for when Leo needed

breaks and then we had Jordi Belair colouring

and it was just really just perfect Charles Beecham

was our assistant editor And we got a lot of

development time on that book. I think it's one

of the reasons that it works so well from issue

one. It just knows what it is. And you either

like that or you don't, but it's very confident

about what it is. And it's particularly confident

to me, considering that was my third book at

Marvel, basically. Like, you know, I hadn't done

that much there. And so to launch that book and

have it come out so strong, I was really proud

of us. And I loved working with Kate. She's one

of my favorite characters. I think the voice

is just wonderful. But the best thing about it

was working with Leo and Jordy and Michael and

Sana and Charles. It was an incredible team.

We had a really great time. So we did... We did

16 issues of Hawkeye starring Kate Bishop, the

last arc co -stars Clint as well, as does there's

a Generations issue that happens. Yep. Sort of

in the middle of the run or toward the end, I

guess, the back third. And then we sort of spun

out into an unofficial Hawkeye spinoff with Kate

Bishop reassembling a West Coast Avengers team.

And we got about 10 issues of that before we

lost it, too. But, you know, 26 issues. Well,

27, if you count generations. That's a pretty

good run on a character. It's definitely these

days. It's definitely. solidified her, I think

pretty permanently as one of my ultimate faves.

So I actually like have all four of those books

sitting right on my desk right now. However,

the Hawkeye Private Eye trade paper only goes

up to 12. There's a second volume. They just

released it. Yes, they just released it. I think

they call it Let's see, I'm trying to picture

the cover in my mind. I can't do it Let me see

if I can last the computer You're talking about

the digest size, right? Yeah. Yeah, they did

a Cuz they just the second volume the second

volume which if you already have West Coast Avengers

You maybe don't want to get but the second volume

has the last issues from The from this from the

Hawkeye series and then it's got the first four

issues. I think of West Coast Avengers Would

that be Hawkeye go west? Yes. Thank you. Okay.

Yeah Yes. Yes. Okay good because then I will

have to go see if I can find that one at my store

tomorrow because while I was at my store last

Saturday, I picked up the Marvel verse Hawkeye

trade paper back at digest size that came out

and and it has generations as the last one. Oh,

you're kidding. You'll have to look for that.

That's cool. I didn't know they were doing that.

That's really fun. I sort of hoped that would

end up in these. You definitely need a little

bit of a primer to understand that last, if you

haven't read Generations, a big character is

a part of that for the last arc. of our Hawkeyes,

so I sort of hoped it would get collected in

ours, but it does make a lot of sense to put

the first bit of West Coast Avengers in there,

so. Yeah. Yeah, but Generations actually I think

is probably the first one of yours I read. Oh,

you know what? I'm lying. Generations is in this

Hawkeye Go West. Yeah, it is. It's Generations,

Hawkeye 13 through 16, and then West Coast Avengers

1 through 4. So that's good. That's great. Well,

awesome. I will look for that. Um, because I

want the rest of the of your private eye run

because I know that this is the one that I keep

seeing, uh, images of on, um, there's this like

hourly Clint Barton bot on Twitter that I let

pop up because it always makes me laugh. And

they keep showing the images of, uh, you know,

Kate fighting Kate and Clint's there trying to

figure it out. And I'm like, This is not in my

book. This is not in my digest. Where is this?

But no, I'm gonna have to find that bot that

seems adorable. Yeah. But no, so but no Generations

was the first one I got because I found it right

after I'd read the the stuff with after Steve

Rogers died. And Kate and Clint met while Clint

was in the flag. And I was just like, oh, I need

to find where their first meeting was. And the

comics actually directed me to Generations instead

of what would then happen later in the New Avengers

when they met. So yeah, I was just so that was

the first one I really really read of them together

and of yours. That's funny. I really loved it

because they're like the same age almost in similar.

I mean, it's hard in the Marvel universe because,

you know, they never want to pin down people's

ages. But yeah, they definitely feel like they're

at similar points in their career, at least right

young in their career for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And

you just like. You could see how that you know,

you you see through that through their other

stories, you know how they're like siblings but

here you get almost that whole like Level of

them being equals Completely without having that

that that sibling relationship there. Yeah, and

I just loved that Yeah, I am. I'm a big fan of

their dynamic. I You know when I would go on

interviews back when I was doing the book, a

thing I would get asked a lot was what makes

Kate Bishop different than Clint Barton or what

makes Clint Barton different than Kate Bishop.

There's plenty of things you can point out, but

I just don't think it's as interesting as what

makes them the same. The reason they both have

the Hawkeye name is they have these ineffable

qualities that are just I don't know, they're

just key to Hawkeye, sort of always getting up,

you know, like that determination, that force

of will, you know, the ability to stand next

to gods with a bow and arrow is crazy, but they

just sort of do it, you know. Them always being

injured and having band -aids all over them is,

I think, a great joke that leans into a much

more serious thing that we all don't talk about,

which is maybe you do need to be strapped into

a mental hospital if you think you can handle

things with bow and arrows that gods can't handle.

But I love that about them. I love that wildness

in them that they've got a cheery disposition

as a default. But one of the big things that

I Talk about when i talk about this run of kate

that i did was that. You know in in my fraction

and david asha's hot guy is so together right.

She seems way better than clint in a lot of ways

like he's a mess and she seems like a very cool

kid who's got her shit together. But to me, but

then when Annie Wu comes in and they move Kate

off to LA, the tone really shifts. And I have

not talked to Matt fraction about this, but my

personal take on this is that it's because when

we're seeing Kate in New York, it's really Clint's

book. And we're sort of seeing her through his

eyes. But when she goes to LA, she no longer,

we no longer have that perspective. We're seeing

Kate more as she sees herself. Uh, and so because

our book was not going to have Clint in it from

the go, that was the, the take I felt we needed

to lean into. And man, did I have a good time

with it. It was, uh, you know, she's just like

a really incredible character who you just can't

help but root for. And, um, you know, I'm not

really into the whole, which is the better Hawkeye

because they're both great. They're both great

in similar ways and in different ways, you know?

And honestly, I don't think in a way that Clint,

especially, he needs his anchor points, and Kate

is one of them. Like, Kate and Bobby and Natasha

are his three anchor points, and you can't survive

without them. Yeah, I definitely think that,

you know, it's one of the things that bothers

me when, you know, because it usually comes from

Clint vans to sort of hate on Kate Barton or

Katie Bishop. And I just Clint would be so mad

at them. I mean, I know that's like a weird thing

to say but like You say you love Clint more than

anything Clint would be so disappointed in you

for like ragging on someone he loves I know that

sounds a little unhinged because obviously these

characters aren't real but I guess my point is

People treat them like they're real They treat

them so much like they're real that they're willing

to attack real people who make comics in order

to get their point across And if that's true,

I mean, just step back and be like, man, Clint

Barton loves Kate Bishop. He thinks she's amazing.

He would never want me to say shit about her.

Like, it's terrible. And Kate wouldn't want that

either. It's one of the reasons I've always fought

the whole the better Hawkeye for either of them.

I think it's dumb. There was a little bit of

that in the advertising and some of the stuff

for our book when it came out and I never liked

it and I wanted to talk to them about like, let's

lean away from this. Why are we? Like, Clint

fans don't have a book now. Why would we, why

would we try to, you know, it's all good natured

fun, but like some people aren't going to understand

that. Like, so we should just back off of this.

But, you know, again, it was my third book at

Marvel. Like, it takes a while for you to get

the confidence to be like, I don't think we should

do this thing that you guys think is a good idea,

even though you've been making comics forever.

And I just came here. So, but yeah, I'm not a

fan of the whole trying to make them compete.

They're great. They're great. They fill different

roles. They fill similar roles. I love them both.

Yeah. And I can just see Jeremy Renner's facial

expression right now to any of those people who

tried to do that. Yeah. Well, he does have the

resting murder face. Yes, he does. He definitely

looks a little grouchy sometimes. Well, he actually

talks about how his daughter's friends, you know,

used to be the kids would be afraid to come up

to him at Marvel events because he always looked

angry. That's funny. That's funny. But but no,

I agree with you because, you know, I've noticed

that, like, especially the last like 10, 15 years

of social media has allowed fandoms to talk with

each other. And yeah, we've lost that. that brain

to post filter. People do that with celebrities

in their relationships. How can you say you're

a fan of this person if you're making death threats

to the person they love because it's not you?

That's weird. Social media, it's like anything

else, right? It's this greatest thing and it's

also the worst thing at the same time. It's opened

up so many doors. It's brought so many people

together. It's sort of changed the way you can

have conversations and sort of who has power

in those conversations. But it's also opened

us up to this incredible world of toxicity and

people hiding behind the anonymity of it all.

I don't really know. I rely so much on social

media, so I can't be a person who would say for

my career and also just for my connections and

the people I know. Almost all of my good friends

are not people who live anywhere near me and

so the way I connect to them is through the internet

and you know stuff like that so I it's it's hard

to say that it's a bad thing because it's also

brought you all these really good things but

you know when you see some of the harassment

and some of the disgusting stuff that goes on

it's so sad and so upsetting that that people

Want to behave this way when they're given the

chance. I I think that's the thing that deserves

me the most about it. It's Yeah, exactly reason

why I've always afraid because I have so many

You know celebrity friends just from people who

I've known growing up and people who I've met

at conventions and stuff that You know, when

I want to make a new friend, like when I was

trying to approach you for this, I didn't want

to come off like I was bothering you because,

you know, I value, you know, our Twitter relationship.

I didn't want to come off as like a crazy family,

like, hey, be on the podcast. Coming to Twitter

in 2022 relationship statuses. I've never, I've

never understood the whole, you know, because

someone doesn't like what a comic character does,

attack the creator, give them constructive criticism,

say what you like, what you didn't like, but

don't attack the person that's giving you the

content. Like, that's not... Yeah. I miss the

letters to the editor, you know, way of doing

things because you had the editor in between.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, listen, I think that it's

it's a weird thing. It's it's a weird thing that

you can become sort of some low level famous

thing. But you don't really have the protection

that comes with, you know, people who are actually

famous. And so it's I don't know. Again, it's

a greatest weekend. It's a greatest, best thing

and a worst. thing at the same time because that

veil coming down between creators and readers

it creates so much cool shit but it also opens

this avenue like you can't you can't filter what

comes through once you open that gate and so

it's like all this stuff is the greatest. And

I mean, listen, I've been incredibly lucky. I

have great fans. People are nice to me every

day on Twitter and say incredible things to me

that are just I don't even can't even believe

they're being said. And I've gotten pretty good

at tuning out the harassment and muting the right

accounts and stuff so that I don't get too much

or I don't see too much. But, you know, it's

just it's sort of relentless, you know? Yeah.

Come on. So let's what back over to to to talking

about fictional people So now that uh Now that

you know, we've started seeing I think there's

three trailers out now for the Hawkeye series

What are some of the things that you're kind

of hoping from? the history of fractions comics

that you kind of want to see them bring over

into the MCU? I don't know that I have any specific

things because when it comes to adaptation, I'm

just interested in it being done. I don't know

what's the adjective I want here. I want them

to be smart. I want them to make smart choices.

I don't care if the choices are always completely

consistent with things I knew before. I'm interested

that they're consistent within the new work,

that they make sense, that they're earned, that

I can relate to them, that they're emotional.

I think a good example of this would be the Black

Widow Yelena sort of family dynamic. I mean,

that is a drastically changed origin story for

Yelena Belova, as anyone who's a fan of the characters

know. She and she and black widow are sisters

of a kind because they're red room graduates

but you know in the comics they were enemies

more than friends most of the time and even though

elena's gone through a lot of evolutions including

in my own book. You know they never had the dynamic

that that that the movie shows but i found. that

dynamic in the movie, incredibly powerful. Like

they really earned it. I felt for them. I attached

to them. And I loved them giving her this really

dysfunctional family. You know, one of the through

lines in the films for Natasha has been that

sort of found family idea of her finding the

Avengers and to a lesser degree, you know, fury

and shield and stuff like that. And I I saw some

people saying that her having a family undercuts

that, and I completely disagree, because I think,

first of all, the first family was a found family,

and so that only emphasizes the fact that she

might look for that again, that she had that

once, and it was great. It might have been constructed

by the Russian government, but it still ended

up being incredibly wonderful for her, and it

was desperation when she lost it, right? The

fact that she would go out and look for that

again and know that her life was missing something.

How would you know that even, you know, without

having seen it? I mean, I think we all know how

to search for family in a way, but I don't think

it undercuts it at all. I think it reinforces

it. And I love that. So, you know, if you had

asked me before I saw the movie, I wouldn't have

said, oh, they should be a family. And if you

had told me they were going to be a family, I

would have been like. I don't know. I hope they

make it work. That's definitely not what the

comic says, but it was great. It was great. It

completely worked for where they need the characters

to go. It worked for setting up all those stakes

and laying out a great story. That's what I want

from Hawkeye too. I want them to find their way.

Yes, it's cool if stuff I've done or stuff from

The Fraction Run makes its way into it in a really

tangible way where you're like, oh, I recognize

that or I remember that or those are the same.

great bits like I mean that'll be really fun

but mostly I hope they just carved their own

path you know and made something great yeah I

love what you said about the found family because

like one of the things that I really wish that

I could get like in novel form or or something

from the MCU is that time period when Clint introduced

Nat to Laura and the family because you, I mean,

you can see how close Nat is to his two kids.

And so being able to see her having that family

again, and then she gets the Avengers family

on top of it. You know, just seeing how that,

how her whole evolution from when Hawkeye was

sent to kill her to the point where we first

meet her, you know, and how that goes through.

And a lot of it is basically from Clint's influence.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think to me, I've got no

problem with the family in the movies for Hawkeye.

I think it's interesting. I think it was sort

of a fun swerve. But I do think that it wasn't

as well earned. to me as the Black Widow movie.

Maybe that's just because it got sandwiched into

an Avengers movie. And so that's how we learned

of it. I think probably, like a lot of fans out

there, it took me a minute to sort of warm to

the idea because we had had no hints about it.

They dropped it in as a complete surprise. And

for most people, they saw the relationship between

Black Widow and Clint in the movie, and they

thought, oh, they might have been lovers at one

time. They might be again. And then you're like,

oh, no, this is a very different situation. And

that's not going to happen because she's part

of this family in a non -sexual way, in a non

-romantic way. And so I think that one doesn't

work quite as well, though I think it's worked

better over time. And I will say that the smartest

thing they did about it was Like you said, really

showing that Natasha was really integrated into

that family in a really powerful way. Like that's

Auntie Nat, you know? She loves Laura. They're

all very thick as thieves, it feels. And that

was a really smart move because that really softened

the blow. I mean, I know that didn't for some

people, but for a lot of people, it softened

the blow that like, oh, well, maybe they're never

going to be together romantically in this universe,

but They're never gonna not be important to each

other like this sort of almost transcends that

in a way which I do think in the final you know

in the end game I do think we really saw that

a lot of us including me are very mad that Natasha

was the one who died in that scene, but it's

a great scene and it really highlights you know,

the strength of that relationship between those

two characters. Yeah, I still cry every time

I watch that scene. Have you been watching What

If at all? I haven't. I know. I know they sort

of righted that wrong. I'm using air quotes here.

I heard that. I heard that through the grapevine.

Oh, yeah, I cried through that episode, too.

You should watch What If because it's solely

based on the MCU stuff. It's not directing from

the comics. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't

know that. Yeah, it is solely through Marvel

Cinematic Universe, Marvel's What If, and I don't

want to spoil it, but Allison, you know what

I want to say. Oh, I know what you want to say.

And that widow and that future and whatever happens

in there. Well, who knows? Maybe they could be

romantically linked. You never know. Yeah, but

no, there's three there's you're going to you

end up having three separate Natasha's and three

separate Clint's. Not all at the same time. But

yeah, but no, it's it's really good. But one

thing I was thinking about with Hawkeye's family

and with now knowing that Yelena is being told,

you know, you can go avenge your sister by going

and killing Hawkeye kind of thread that they

had at the end of Black Widow. And I'm kind of

hoping that Yelena having heard all the stories

that that that Natasha talked about clit during

the movie will make her actually want to learn

about her sister instead of avenging her sister

yeah i mean listen i'm excited just like anyone

to potentially see a fun hawkeye hawkeye white

widow fight um that'll be fun uh, it'll be fun

the way I always like superhero fights, which

is make it cool, make it brief, have them get

past it. Like I don't want them fighting each

other for long. So I guess that that's a definite

concrete hope I have for the show is I'd like

to see them fight and then I'd like to see them

quickly move past that and work together or,

you know, for the common good of, of Natasha

or the people Natasha cares for coming together.

So yeah, I hope that that's I mean, there's also

a thread where I'm very happy if she's smart

enough to avoid the fight. And like you said,

you know, really really think about what Natasha

would have wanted and approach it from a different

angle. And I think that they are writing a more

nuanced Yelena than we frequently seen in the

comic. And I sort of include my own in that she's

a very like, strong personality who sort of a

little bit goes off half cock sometimes. So You

know, we'll see what they do there. I'd be fine

if she avoided them fighting and just took a

different angle I think that would be smart,

but if they do fight I just hope it's very cool

and brief So now here's here's a fun one for

you and it's not on our script Mike so don't

worry about that So there are two directions

I can see the MCU going with how they've been

playing these TV series I can see them either

going and having a West Coast Avengers or a Young

Avengers based on the characters that we've gotten

to see. Which way would you want to go if you

could join as a writer? Well, I mean, I think

I'm just way too biased. I think if they were

going to do a West Coast Avengers that involves

my girl Kate, probably they're going to be looking

at my book. And so selfishly, I really like that.

And certainly if I was going to be involved,

I really like that. I do think that the format

of our West Coast Avengers series with the confessional

interviews and stuff. They could have so much

fun with that. I think it could be amazing. But

if I take myself completely outside of it, I

think the heat's probably more on Young Avengers.

That was very popular, not just some of the original

stuff back when Kate was... creative, but also

the Caringill and Jamie McKelvey stuff is so

cool. I think if I was Marvel, I would want to

push. Our team was very diverse in West Coast

Avengers, but it was less forefront. I tried

my best. I got some of it in there. I didn't

get as much of it as I wanted in there. I think

some of that falls on me. Some of it's not. I

do think the sort of youth would be more in the

West Coast or in the Young Avengers. I mean,

people have been wanting that book back for so

long and to see it come alive with all new young

characters like the next generation, that makes

a lot of sense to me. Yeah, because I mean, we've

already seen, what is it? We have seen, obviously

we're going to see Kate. We know we have Cassie.

The kid who would play Iron Patriot was in Falcon

and Winter Soldier. And we had the child versions

of Billy and Tommy already in Wandavision. Isn't

America Chavez going to be in Doctor Strange?

Didn't I read that? Yes, you're right. She is.

So, those seem like the pieces to me for building

a Young Avengers. West Coast Avengers, you could

certainly spin it out of Hawkeye, but I don't

know why you wouldn't just spin another Hawkeye

out of Hawkeye, whether that be Hawkeye and Hawkeye

or Hawkeyes or Clint leaving the title to become,

to let it be Kate's or Kate leaving the title

to become something else. I don't know. It wouldn't

make a ton of sense. You know, both Young Avengers

and West Coast Avengers have the name in it.

If for some reason marketing doesn't love the

name Young Avengers, which I can sort of see,

I could see them going with calling a Young Avengers

West Coast Avengers, but keeping it more, you

know, or maybe they'd hybridize it. Maybe they'd

take a little from both and create something

new. That would be fun. I mean, putting it on

the West Coast and using Young Avengers. characters

plus maybe a confessional aspect reality show

thing element to really getting in there. Like

all of that stuff could be fun. There's so many

options. I mean, listen, when I look at the I

love the Marvel films. I think they're incredible.

I think they're an incredible feat overall. So

many of them. So many of them are good. Not all

of them, but so many of them. They come together

in a way that makes you care about these characters

so much because you end up spending so much time

with them. I mean, the death of Tony Stark in

Endgame hit me like... so much harder than it

deserved to. Like it's a comic book movie and

people always come back and all these things.

But, you know, I've been living with this guy

through multiple movies for so long and I really

love that character. And so it really was earned

that that pain we all felt. And the biggest,

so I love the MCU, but I do think that what we're

seeing from the TV side is really exciting because

Wandavision feels completely different than Winter

Soldier and Winter Soldier feels completely different

than Loki and Loki feels different than Hawkeye

feels like it's going to be and you know, so

that ends up being That ends up feeling more

like comics to me, you know I mean because for

the superhero movies They really have to pigeonhole

themselves and I think that's deliberate and

it was smart and I've got no problem with it.

They made very big smash -em -up classic action

movie set piece superhero movies, right? But

on TV, you can do something a little different.

Like this is our magic one, and this is our investigators,

and this is our, you know, and so you can see

all those different sides. Like this can be sci

-fi, and this can be romance, and this could

be a detective story, and they can all still

live within the Marvel universe in a really beautiful

way. Yeah. Yeah, that is. Very true. And the

thing that I like what Marvel is talking about

with these TV series is that even though they're

like mini series in a way, they're not saying

that this they're not saying any of these series

are over. They just list them as season ones

because they've said if they ever do have an

idea for another story within their mini worlds,

they want to be able to come back to it. I would

love to be able to see some crossovers between

them. I was telling Matt the other day when we

did his interview that it's his dang fault that

I'm into Winterhawk as my favorite strip of all

time nowadays, and I want to see the Bucky Clint

team up. Especially since MCU -wise, they've

got a lot more in common in MCU than they do

in comics. Yeah, but you know, I'm not sure you're

gonna I mean, I guess it's possible they do that.

I mean, I would love it because I thought we

weren't ever really going to get that dynamic

between them because clearly that was the Sam

dynamic. They were taking that dynamic and applying

it to Sam. And I loved it. I really, really loved

it. And I like that they grew through it in their

season. But I'll be honest, it was more fun for

me when they were sort of sniping. sniping at

each other and being annoyed with each other,

but trying to get along. That had more crackle

to me than just, oh, hey, we're really good friends

that support each other. I'm not saying I don't

want them to be really good friends who support

each other. I do. But there's a lot more crackle

and pop in the other thing. And so part of me

is like, well, maybe since he and Sam are good

now, we could port him over and he could have

that dynamic with Hawkeye. That'd be great. My

guess is that's not gonna be a direction they

go. Well, that's what fan fictions for Grayson

in there and then you got a whole keg of things

going on. Hey, that is my freaking fan fiction.

I know it is I know it is Kelly I don't know

if I've told you but I actually write what I

call my circus bros world which is the world

where DC and Marvel are like the same world,

and Clint and Dick knew each other during the

circus, when there were no circuses. Oh, that's

fun. So yeah, so we have Hawkeye and Nightwing,

you know, every now and then going into a case

together. But yeah, so now. Also, now that we've

seen some of these trailers, what is the one

thing you've seen in the trailer that just got

you really excited for how this series is going

to go? I think casting Hailee Seinfeld, that's

an incredible, smart call. There are certainly

a lot of different actresses that I'm sure would

have been great cast, but she is absolutely one

of them. I just think she's going to nail it.

So that is a thing. I think the other thing that

I really respond to, and especially the new trailer,

I love a sort of Christmas special, a Christmas

movie. I mean, you know, Shane Black loves to

integrate Christmas into his big movies. I always

love that Die Hard is, of course, the quintessential

Christmas movie that's not a Christmas movie

that is a Christmas movie. So I think that's

very fun. I mean, I wanted to groan in the best

possible way at the bows pun. Like, I mean, that's

felt so comics. I loved that. This holiday season,

the best gifts come with a bow. So I think they've

got a lot to go to to go to speak for them so

far. I think what we've seen is pretty great

so far. Yeah, I just I love the scene where they're

driving and they're going through the arrows

and Clint's just like Not this one. Not this

one. Here, take this one. And then it explodes

the trust of bro. She's like, she's like, you

have arrows more dangerous than this. And that

look, that look that Jeremy Renner pulled off

on camera. That was Clint. That is my face. Yeah.

That whole that whole scene was of course, incredibly

encouraging. I mean, Hawkeye three. by Matt Fraction,

David Aja is one of my favorite comics of all

time. Maybe the perfect comic book, single issue

comic book. So to see them playing literally

with ideas in that issue is really fun. That's

a very high bar though, so I hope they nailed

it. I do too. That's a perfect comic. And also

using the frozen daiquiri mixes as ice packs.

Yeah. Yeah, man, maybe there will be fake frozen

peas or something in one of those boxes that

they send out. They do those PR boxes sometimes.

I got a couple of them. They were very cool.

Oh, gosh. Yeah, the WandaVision one had a TV

tray and a little glass, like a little cups,

two cups, I think. It was so cool. I also got

the Winter Soldier one. which had more candy

in it, which was fun, but nothing that left as

big as an impression as like the TV tray ideas,

which was so clever. How do I get on these lists

for these things? Well, I didn't even get the

Loki box. So what I would say you probably have

to do, I think. The only thing I can, I don't

know how I got on the list. I think maybe because

I'd been writing Scarlet Witch recently in Star.

So maybe that's why I got on the WandaVision

list. And because I'd been writing Winter Soldier

in Black Widow, maybe that's why I lucked out

and got those. But I'd also written a little

bit of Loki in Star and that didn't get me on.

So I don't know what the bar is, but they're

pretty, they're pretty exclusive. These things,

I assume they go out to creatives and other sort

of similarly placed people, I would guess. Yeah,

because DC did one for fandom where they sent

out the video game for Gotham Knights, sent out

these boxes to different influencers. And it

had like a court of owls mask and like this,

like all these like little tidbits that would

be revealed for when they released the official

game trailer on fandom. And I'm just like, I

hate you all. I want one. Honestly, I think the

last thing I really got around on here, because

we talked a lot about the show and your history

with the Hawkeyes. But why don't you talk about

the things you're working on right now, like

your little baby land shark and then the most

recent Black Widow issue that I'm angry at you

about still. Yeah. So let's start with Hawkeye

adjacent things. So It's Jeff is a basically

silent comic that I've written with the incredible

artist Guri Hiro. It's on the Marvel Unlimited

Act. and people are loving it. Jeff has become

a very special star, especially on TikTok. And

it's amazing. And Kate Bishop sometimes shows

up as do other little superhero guest stars.

And I'm also writing Black Widow, which sometimes

stars Clint and Bucky, among other people. Kate

was in a recent issue, but she's not in the new

arc. And so that was issue 12 just came out and

that's the start of a new arc. So if you've been

on the fence about getting on, that would be

a good place to jump in. We've got a really incredible

flashback issue for issue 13. that I think is

really exciting, especially because Jordi Belair

turned in these absolutely mind -bending colors.

They're so incredible. So that's exciting. And

I'm also writing Captain Marvel. We're having

a crazy historic run. I'm working on 36 right

now. I just saw the final inks on 35, and they

are so freaking cool. Sergio Davila is an incredible

artist, and he's really killing it on there.

And what else? So I've also got a sub stack.

Oh, I'm doing Amazing Spider -Man. I'm part of

the team writing the new Amazing Spider -Man

book. My second issue is out next week. Sara

Pacelli art, Nolan Woodard colors. He's amazing.

And then I'm also doing this sub stack thing

where I'm going to be producing a couple comics

that released digitally via Substack, but before

those come out, they've not started yet. The

first one's called Black Cloak with the incredible

Meredith McLaren. The second one, I don't know

if it'll be the second in order, but is a book

called The Cull by Matty Adelius, my former Jessica

Jones collaborator at Marvel. But before the

books even come out, we're doing a lot of really

fun posts that are about like, Comics creation

and behind the scenes stuff and process and we're

having a really good time. We're building a little

community over there. It's really great If you're

you can sign up for free and like see if you

like it And then if you want you can subscribe

there will be stuff behind a paywall at some

point But so far most everything's been free.

I think yeah, I really like your process junkie

Ones that you've been showing lately those that's

that whole subs subset has been really, really

thoughtful for me when I'm going in and trying

to think about things to share with my students.

Thank you. Thank you. Well, I'm doing one coming

up. There's an interview next week with Lee Jarbet

about Captain Marvel costume stuff. And then

I will be doing a post maybe next week or it

might be the week after that that's got script

samples from a whole bunch of different creators

so people can see the different ways people do

it. They'll just be short samples like two or

three pages or something, but enough for people

to get the idea of like, oh, this is how Kelly

Thompson does it, but this is how Matt Rosenberg

does it, and this is how Saladin Ahmed does it.

So I think that stuff would have been so valuable

for me to have as a kid. you know, as a teen

trying to figure it out. In my French 3 class,

not knowing how to structure a comic, it would

have been great to be able to go online and see

the different ways people do it. Yeah, I'm just

pulling up the one that you sent out. Well, no,

this is the one from two hours ago that I haven't

read that one yet. But you had one where you

had a couple of your characters, like, in comic

book form, talking to you about what that would

be. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a good time. Yeah,

we're having a lot of fun. We're trying to build

a little community over there. I mean, I think,

you know, nobody's under the delusion that you

can bring all your Twitter followers over there

or, you know, anything like that. But I do think

going back to the thing we were talking about

before about how toxic the anonymity can be.

You know, a lot of creators, even before people

started getting these Subsec Pro offers, that

means you can actually pay people to help you

build, make comics. Before that, a lot of creators

were going over there because they want to stay

in touch with the people who want to know about

their work and their audience. Like, it's so

valuable to us and so important to us, but you

don't always want to do it in that toxic environment.

So a lot of us had already, not that we were

abandoning Twitter, but that we were like, well,

let's try this. This is a way to help build another

audience. Especially now with the pro deals,

I think it's even more important. It's an experiment.

I'll be shocked if I end up with 5 ,000 newsletter

subscribers, free or paid. I'll never come close

to the Twitter numbers. You also don't need those

huge numbers, like the people who are really

engaging with you and really interested in what

you're saying and want to talk about things.

That's not 40 ,000 people. That's some much smaller

number of people. And those are the ones that

are important. So like two people on a podcast,

one who had the idea and the schmuck who just

hosts it. Not a schmuck. Your words, not ours.

And randomly, what do you think of the difference

between Substack and Patreon? Because I know

that that's two different ways that a lot of

creators are able to talk with their fan base

one on one and share. Yeah, I think Patreon's

great. support several myself i think the big

problem cuz i looked at doing a patreon at different

times like especially when i was thinking about

like our ways that i could raise the money to

write this other novel that i wanted to write

i've never got the time and blah blah blah but

patreon is so art driven. To me like it doesn't

really feel like blogging which is sort of what

subset feels like like blogging going directly

into your inbox i would say subset feels very

much like a. platform for writers. So it feels

very natural to me, whereas Patreon didn't really

feel that way. That said, obviously, Substack

is having to up their game, they partnered with

that panels app and things like that. Because

by the very nature of Substack feeling at home

to writers means it's not as at home to posting

comics as you'd like it to be, but I think that's

changing. I'm already reading two books on the

panels app through, it's like what, Shibsodarsky's

public domain, I think, or no, I think it's Jeff

Lemire's Fish Flies is on panels and so is James

Tinian's blue book and they look incredible they

look incredible so i'm really i mean they look

good in the newsletter to but if you prefer you

know an app that's more gear that way specifically

that's a great avenue and i'm excited to see

that developing specially since my comics are

coming soon. That's good because i've that's

the one thing i've always struggle with patrons

i don't feel comfortable navigating the the app

and how. you know, people want visual on there

and, you know, I just end up throwing pictures

of my cats because that's really all I got. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I would say that that, you know,

while Patreon and Instagram and things like that

lean very heavy to image news, newsletters like

Substack and, you know, there's a million of

them, there's MailChimp, there's all sorts. They

certainly lean more toward the written word.

But it doesn't stop you from wanting a lot of

great images in every post, so. Yeah. It's been

a while since your cats have shown up, hasn't

it? Well, I've only been putting them in the

sort of weekly, like the sort of roundup that's

like. Not about a specific thing, but has a bunch

of categories like here's what's upcoming and

here's what's whatever that's got a cat section,

but it's funny you said that because I did think

maybe I should just be putting a cat photo at

the bottom of every one of these regardless of

what it's about like as a joke. So maybe we'll

do that. I've certainly got enough photos to

last several years. So yes, you can always do

a mirror universe version of Jeff and just call

them F. I have a little shark head costume, you

know, I could send you to that. You could have

them walking around like that doing Jeff poses.

All right. So, uh, final question. So Kelly,

with your intimate knowledge of both the Hawkeyes

and their world, do you want to be a Hawkeye?

Hell yeah. Awesome. Matt was like complete opposite.

Wait, why wouldn't he want to be a Hawkeye? Maybe

I didn't understand the question. Rosenberg.

Rosenberg, yeah. No, why though? Why didn't he

want to be a Hawkeye? I think it's because the

amount of... Oh my gosh, you're going to have

to pull up the clip. Do you want to be a Hawkeye?

Wow. I'm going to say no. I'm going to say no.

The sad thing is if there was any superhero I

would be, he's probably the one I would be. But

no, I don't want to be a Hawkeye. You don't want

to fall off roofs into dumpsters? No, no, I don't

want to like, you know, I don't want to barely

make it out of every fight. That's not a good

way to be like Thor shows up and sometimes he

just clobbers everybody and leaves and he looks

great. He doesn't even break a sweat. Like that's

a that's a good one to be. I mean, you know,

except for the fact of when he goes up against

force fields and, and thank God this podcast

is explicit. Holy shit. Hey language. The other

question we need to ask you and we need to work

this into future things. Alison, if you did want

to be a Hawkeye, which trick arrow would you

want? Trick arrows are so hard. Um, You know,

I I like just a good old -fashioned like gas

arrow like knockout gas Like that's just a good

arrow. That's just useful. You're not hurting

people bad It's good for stealth. It's funny.

Like that's a good arrow like, you know Explosive

arrow has limited use like boomerang arrow has

almost no use like There's a lot that are that

are like very specific, but I think knockout

gas, that's just always useful. Definitely not

this one. You don't have to say definitely like

that. I think it had to be something with the

amount of, you know, pain injury. No, he's right.

Matt's I'm doing the fan answer, but Matt's doing

the actual answer where you thought about it.

Yeah. Which we talked a lot about you also while

we were interviewing him and he was like gushing

about how you're his best friend and how much.

you know, you mean to him and how much he enjoys

reading your stuff. He's amazing. Matt's amazing.

We're BFFs. I'm a big fan of his work and more

than that. That's one of the best people I've

ever known Like sometimes he'll say or do a thing

and I'm like, I don't know if I can be your friend

like you're too good Like you're just so much

better than me and he's not trying to be better

than me. He's just a really good dude Ed Brisson

is our third musketeer there in that little our

trio and He's a pretty good dude, too. Although

he's a Canadian. So of course he is right? Yeah,

that's kind of like, you know part of their their

their nurture. Yeah, I'm very lucky to have Matt

and Ed. Comics can be very lonely. It doesn't

have to be, but it can be. And gosh, without

their insight, whoosh, I'd be lost in the woods.

So I take it since you say all your friends live

far away from you, you're not in New York? No,

I used to be, actually. Right as my career started

taking off, though, and people started asking

me to come to meetings in New York, I moved to

Portland, Oregon. That's convenient. Complete

opposite. I'd been in New York for about 11 years

when we left, and I was pretty burned out. That's

a city for ... Uh, the rich, the young and the

beautiful, as far as I'm concerned. Like, and

I was none of those things at that point. So

I was ready to, uh, just have things not be so

hard, you know? Like it's nice to be able to

park your car without driving around for, I kid

you not, three hours. Oh, I know perfectly. I'm

from Yonkers originally. Oh, there you go. You

know. Yeah. So I know all that. Yeah. I mean,

it would be nice if you just had a pair of earrings

that you could just magically tap and everything

just happens. You could just wave your arm and

then this portal appears in a star shape in front

of you. I mean, when you said that, I was going

to say, well, if that existed, maybe I would

live in New York. But no, I mean, I'd live somewhere

even further away because you could just go wherever

you want. You have your own little island and

then you have your portal transportation. I would

really like to go to New Zealand, so maybe I

would do that. like spirit twins or something.

I don't know if it's ever gonna happen though,

man. That is a long ass flight. I don't know.

I don't know. But it's worth it though, from

what I've been told it really is. It's supposed

to be worth it. I mean, listen, it's like number

one on the places I'd like to go on this planet,

but I am supposed to go to Hawaii next summer.

And I've been before. And I was doing the math

for how long that flight was. And I was like,

I don't know, man. This is going to be rough.

It's been a while since I have had to do anything

as bad or worse than LA, New York. The pandemic

has definitely made me even more. Leery of that

kind of thing. So yeah, I didn't want to fly

when I went for my graduation So I drove from

Nashville to Colorado Yeah, I took advantage

of it. Like I made sure I had extra days off

From when I was going to be driving so that way

I could like, you know stop in in Santa Fe. That

was my big one. I wanted to stop in Santa Fe

and, you know, stopped at a couple other places

along the way. But there was this one point where

I realized if you're driving during the summer

along Route 66, don't expect to find a hotel

room. Yeah, that happened. I think a lot of that's

the pandemic go to that happened to us. We, we

drove this summer because I didn't want to fly.

We were for the first time in a year and a half,

we were getting to see my family, everyone was

getting together at a house in LA. And we drove

because I didn't want to fly. And we encountered

that to like everything being sold out on the

road. So yeah, I hear you. But there's this like

one point between Santa Rosa and Santa Fe that

I had like at one o 'clock in the morning and

no ambient light whatsoever, clear sky. I pulled

off enough to the side of the road that I wouldn't

get hit by a car coming by, turned off my headlights

and just stood outside and stared up at the sky.

I've never, because I grew up in New York, never

seen that. That's incredible. Yeah, it's incredible.

It's been a really long time since I was far

enough away from a city and light pollution to

really see that. But, you know, I grew up part

of my time in Colorado and in Utah, and there's

a lot of really beautiful open spaces out there.

It's pretty incredible. Where did you where did

you go to school in Colorado? Western Colorado

University up in Gunnison. Oh, yeah. Yep, I know

Gunnison. Yep, they have a, it's a low residency

masters of creative writing. That's cool. And

they do, you can do creative writing for genre

fiction, for screenwriting, for poetry, for nature

writing, and now they have a one year certificate

for publishing as well. Wow, pretty cool. Pretty

cool. Congratulations. Thank you. All right,

guys, I got to go. We went a little long here.

I got to get back to it. But thank you so much

for having me on. I had a great time. Absolutely.

You could just swim from Portland to Hawaii and

then from Hawaii to New Zealand. I mean, it's

a straight shot down the North Pacific. This

might surprise you given some of my history here,

but I'm very afraid of sharks. You were like

my new favorite person. Well, you already were

a favorite person, but you're like my favorite,

favorite person now. Yeah, I, you know, sometimes

you create a thing you're afraid of to fall in

love with it. I don't know that I've actually

softened on real shark. No, you know, I have.

I have. I'm probably still equally afraid of

them as I ever was before. But my position on

them has certainly softened since creating Jeff.

So there you go. That's great. Well, guess, Mike,

that you got to take us out then. Thank you for

joining us here inside the Pull Bang and On Studio

2009. If you'd like to get in contact with us,

leave feedback for the show. There are several

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Studio 2009 is for the studio. And at the pull

bag is for the pull bag. I'm at TFG and Mike.

Kelly, what is your Twitter? At 79 Semi -Finalist.

What is the story behind that? Is it a quick

one? It's pretty quick. It's simply, you know,

by the time I got to social media, Kelly Thompson's

a really common name. It was all taken up. And

so I knew I needed to sort of brand myself. And

it's one of my favorite songs from one of my

favorite bands called The Bad Plus. And yeah,

it's a song called 1979 Semi -Finalist. And yeah,

I think it's also sort of a state of mind. It's

sort of an idea of you're a semi -finalist. Keep

trying. You know what I mean? Like, don't give

up. Keep pushing. That kind of vibe. Absolutely.

What about you, Allison? What's your Twitter?

It is AllieSkyRichards, A -L -I -S -Q -I. R -I

-C -H -A -R -D -S, and I can never now not sing

the Mickey Mouse theme song. M -O -U -S -E. I

really can. Become a fan on Facebook. Go to facebook

.com slash GeekCast Radio Network. You can also

check out Studio 2009 podcast and the pull bag

over there as well. Join us next time when we

will be doing So You Want to Be a Hawkeye Some

More with the next guest. I don't know who the

next guest is going to be off the top of my head

because all the script says for me is November

stuff because it's now November 2021, folks.

For now, I am TF2 on Mic with... Ali Sky Richards

and Kelly Thompson. As always, dive into the

pullback at your local comic book store and make

your great escape into comics. Come on! You're

a Hawkeye! Who the hell are you? I'm Kate Bishop.

You're a kid. My god as always make your greatest

game into comics and You changed it don't change

my ending You did dive into the pullback at your

local comic you did that's Take two Oh Well,

I didn't read it that way back then Good outtakes,

folks. Good outtakes. Whoo! We're out of regular

arrows. What do you mean, what? Oh, my God, trick

arrows? Look, not this one. All right, you don't

have to say definite ones like that. Not this

one. This is too dangerous. I'm using this one.

Be careful. I was torn, Karen. They're not regular

arrows. Mini, mini, mini. Come on, come on. No.

You've just heard the latest episode of The Pull

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