Interview with Matthew Rosenberg on Hawkeye Comics and the Disney Plus Series

Hey, this is Josh Keaton, and you are listening

to the GeekCast Radio Network. Hi, this is writer

Matthew Rosenberg, and you've jumped into the

pull bag, only on the GeekCast Radio Network.

We're fighting an army of robots. And I have

a bow and arrow. None of this makes sense. Hello,

and welcome to So You Wanna Be a Hawkeye, a new

miniseries exclusively inside the pull bag and

on Studio 2009 here at the GeekCast Radio Network.

This series is going to discuss all things Hawkeye,

delving into both Clint Barton and Kate Bishop

in the comics, and then in the Hawkeye Disney

Plus series, premiering November 24th, 2021.

I am TFU and Mike, and joining me is Alice and

Sky Richards, who came up with this excellent

idea of a miniseries. Hi, Mike. How are you?

I'm here. Well, I hope for that. But we also

have an amazing, phenomenal comic writer guest

today, Matthew Rosenberg. You may know him from

the current run of Batman Urban Legends, Joker

Puzzle Box, and Four Kids Walk into a Bank, the

last of which is being adapted into a feature

film with Picture Smart. Welcome, Matt. Hey,

how's it going? Thanks for having me. It's going

great! So, before we dive into spitballing about

the Disney Plus series, why don't you tell us

about your history working with the original

Hawkeye, Clint Barton? Yeah, sure. I always try

and do dates, and then I'm terrible with dates.

I was going to say I started working at Marvel

and then I have no idea when I started working

at Marvel. So I started working at Marvel a bunch

of years ago and very early on Hawkeye has always

been one of my favorite characters since I was

a little kid and was definitely a character that

I kind of set my sights on and was trying to

write and trying to get into things and into

books. I kept sort of asking about Hawkeye, trying

to write him in things and trying to put him

in different things I was writing. And eventually

he started appearing in The Punisher when I was

writing The Punisher. And I wrote, then I started

writing a series called Tales of Suspense, which

Marvel asked me to do, which was a Hawkeye Winter

Soldier team -up book. Yes, I'm gonna come back

to that one in a minute. Okay. And from there,

I... wanted to keep going on on Tales of Suspense.

The sales were not what we needed to do to do

that. And so I, you know, I said, well, can I

do a Delhawkeye book? And they were very excited

about that idea at that point. And I sort of

pitched it and we started to get it going. And

then I got whisked away to the X -Men corner

of the Marvel universe and had to spend all my

time sort of. putting out a bunch of fires there

and and doing a bunch of things that were really

fun and and there was a There was a bunch of

like different things going and different ideas

brewing and a bunch of different people taking

books and so there was a lot of like Finishing

other people's books and and mixing up timelines

and so it took a lot of time and so I couldn't

do the Hawkeye book And then finally, when my

time on X -Men came to an end, I circled back

and said, yeah, I really want to do that Hawkeye

book now. And so I did a book called Hawkeye

Freefall there, which is a mini -series with

the great Otto Schmidt on art. And my first thought

in my head as soon as I see the title, and it's

been in my head all day long, because I actually

tried to read the thing before we started. I've

been trying to read it for the last eight hours

as of this recording, and I just... There's been

a lot of stress lately. But anyway, like I keep

looking at the Hawkeye freefall title and all

I can hear in the back of my head is free falling.

Sure. It's all I can hear in the back of my head.

Solid, solid song. A classic, a classic if you

would. I actually didn't name the series Free

Fall. That was actually a suggestion from Alana

Smith, our wonderful editor on the book. We were,

the title I wanted to use Marvel did not like,

and we were going back and forth over and over

sending each other titles. And finally Alana

came in and was like, Free Fall. I was like,

okay, sure, let's go with that. But it was not,

it was not a me suggestion. What was the title

you wanted to use? I wanted to call it Hawkeye

colon It's Not Funny Anymore. That was what I

wanted to call it. Which I thought was a very

good title and a lot of the Marvel writing staff

thought it was very good and I think a lot of

the Marvel editorial and sales staff did not.

So as these things often go, the creative side

and the sales and editorial side don't necessarily

see eye to eye. I think often the editorial and

sales side are correct and know what the audience

wants. But the creative side gets excited about

things that aren't good ideas sometimes. And

this was maybe one of them, but I still like

that title. Yeah. And that would have fit Clint's

personality a lot more too. Yeah, yeah, I mean

I think I wanted to do the idea like There'd

been a bunch of Hawkeye books that were were

that are great that I love that are pretty goofy

and I wanted to sort of Dog whistle the idea

that we were gonna go take it someplace darker

by the end So like start off a little goofier

and then by the end it gets pretty heavy and

so I thought it's not funny anymore was a good

a good joke and also yeah fits with Clint's personality

of just like, you know, one of the themes of

the joke is that he's One of the themes of the

book is that he's taking jokes too far that he's

like messing with the hood as a joke and everyone

sort of Gets it and then it's like this is a

very dangerous person to be messing with and

he just won't let it go until it's a war so that

was my idea was to call it that but Free fall

is a good title as well when I was happy to call

it that Yeah, well Coming back to Tales of Suspense.

So that's actually the comic that I was introduced

to your writing through. Okay. And you also kind

of sailed my ship for the for the Clinton Bucky

ship, you know, Witterhawk. Sure. And then I

kind of loved how you brought it back, you know,

with sneaking Bucky into free fall for the one

issue. And now Kelly has gone back in the Black

Widow and kind of done a a homage to you by having

the trio back together again in her first six

issues. Yeah, yeah. So, um, so I was going to

ask, like how, so were you involved with Kelly

at all in kind of going back on that relationship

and, and helping her with it? Or is that all

on her? No, that's all on her. Uh, me and Kelly

are super close. She's one of my best friends.

So like we talk about our work with each other.

I mean, almost daily. And so, you know, when

I was working on Tales of Spence, she really

liked it. And I really liked her Hawkeye run.

And, you know, we sort of talked about those

books a lot. And, you know, and she was the one

she was one of the people who kept being like,

you have to do your Hawkeye pitch, like you have

to make do your book, like stop, you know, stop

doing other stuff. And so when I had the chance

to do Hawkeye again, she was like, super supportive.

And like, you know, we talked about the book

a lot, and I sort of bounced ideas off her. And

so when She started doing Black Widow, she was

like, are you doing more stuff after Freefall

with these characters? And I was like, not right

now, no. And she was like, do you mind if I run

with it? And I said, no, go for it. The one thing

we don't see eye to eye on is I'm a big fan of

the Hawkeye purple costume, and she is not as

much a fan of it. I don't think she dislikes

it, but she likes the more modern costume. And

so she was like, I'm going to ditch the purple.

And I was like, no, you have to leave it. But

she wouldn't. But I understand it. That's you

know, Kelly's going to do what Kelly's going

to do. I can't stop her. It's her book. Yeah,

it's it's his formal where I think is how they

put it now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So no, I mean,

she told me she was going to do stuff. And, you

know, she showed me scripts and art as it was

going. And I was, you know, Kelly's the best.

So I was super excited to see what she did. And

She's been doing awesome stuff in Black Widow

with that trio, so it's very fun. Yeah, and I

actually, looking right over my shoulder, I have

the spread from issue six open on my wall framed,

which is where they show Hawkeye up on the beam,

shooting the arrows down. they do as the girls

are fighting the soldiers underneath yeah and

you know I just felt that that was a perfect

representation with him because you can actually

see how fast he's firing the arrows and everything

in that yeah yeah that's a very cool sequence

for sure now when you got to the end of freefall

though you kind of left Clint at a crossroads

you know where you know he was could go back

to being a hero or he could, you know, start

touching back on returning to his villain origin

if people looked at what he did depending on

the lens they looked through. Sure. So if you

got a chance to write with Clint again, where

would you want to take him? Well, Freefall was

a funny thing because there was a lot of crossed

wires, I guess, is the polite, delicate way of

saying it with the book. It was announced as

a miniseries. It was announced as an ongoing.

People didn't really know what it was. And then

I think there was actually an error where it

wasn't in the previews catalog when it came out.

And so stores didn't know it was coming. all

this stuff so there was all these sort of like

weird it was sort of a cursed book from go but

i'd always planned for to do more of it and then

it came out and uh uh you know it did fine it

didn't do amazingly well and then covid hit and

uh it was one of those books that they paused

they didn't pause it but they were they went

to digital only for it and then uh the hawkeye

fans were amazing and and really supportive and

Made a big made a big ruckus and politely which

is always important and Marvel being the heroes

that they are put the rest of the issues in print

and and so we were very lucky for that and very

appreciative but My plan was always to keep the

story going in one way or another and I actually

ended up talking to Marvel a bunch about when

they were like there's not gonna be more freefall

of What we were gonna do and I had a whole other

pitch that was gonna be Hawkeye is sort of a

darker hero, not darker because he'd still be

Clint and be funny and whatever, but more of

a treading the line of legality a lot closer

to towing the line of what's legal and what's

not was going to be the big thing. pitched it

as a Heroes for Hire book and it was going to

be Clint sort of running an operation with Night

Thrasher funding it and them kind of teaming

up to to rob. The idea was that they would be

robbing villains and sort of just hitting them

economically, shutting them down and funneling

their money into like social programs and good

causes. Sort of a continuation of what he was

kind of doing in Freefall to the hood. But like

on a grander scale. Leading up to my idea was

my pitch was that he would try and take down

the kingpin and of course feel miserably but

But that was gonna be it is that he was gonna

be sort of doing this thing where people were

heroes knew that he was still Clinton a good

guy But that he was breaking laws and robbing

people and sort of doing things in a much sketchier

way But we just couldn't get that traction for

that book. I think it just wasn't the right time

and you know the editors I showed her to were

super enthusiastic but it just couldn't get off

the ground and then you know the pandemic things

were weird and they didn't know where books were

going or who was doing what and so it it just

never happened so that's why I was really happy

that Kelly was like I want to run with this stuff

a little more because it didn't you know she

gets we get some closure on some of the things

and sort of her take on it it's a little different

from where I was going to go but that's sort

of the fun of Marvel really Well, if the audience

and the Hawkeye fans bring in some new MCU fans

into the fold You know, you never know you they

may come back and revisit it on you and then

we'll get to see this because I really want to

see this Yeah, I mean I would love to do it at

some point You know, I love Clint so much. He's

one of my favorite characters in all of comics

And so, you know any time if Marvel ever was

like, oh come to a Hawkeye thing I would I would

always be there to do it But there is a Hawkeye

book now that's launching very soon. That's a

Kate book. It's Marjorie, I believe? Who's writing

it? Yeah, it's based on Kate Bishop. Yeah, it's

a Kate book. I forgot who's making it. I know

some people I know just read it and said it was

fun. It's Marakee, and I'm probably butchering

the name, but Marakee Nidge Camp. Yeah. That

sounds about right. Yeah. It looks cool. The

cover art was cool. The teasers were cool. I'm

excited for it. I think it had Phil Noto cover.

He's great. So, yeah, I hope people pick it up.

And, you know, Hawkeye's a hard book because

Hawkeye has a very passionate audience, but it's

a small audience in comparison to, you know.

your caps and Iron Man's and Thor's and people

like that, but So it's always hard to explain

to people like well a Hawkeye books a hard sell

and you know everyone sort of looks around and

it's like all these people love Hawkeye and I'm

like, yes people really love the people who love

him really love him and But that's not Always

the big enough audience to to maintain a book

on its own strength. So yeah But I hope the new

book does really well, that would be awesome

Yeah I really hope so. I mean, especially with

how the MCU is kind of starting to lead toward

having Thunderbolts again. Yeah. And, you know,

being that Hawkeye has comic history with the

Thunderbolts, you know, being able to have a

comic series that maybe goes along with it where

he could be part of it again. You know, that

I would love to see. Yeah, yeah. A Hawkeye. Thunderbolts

show, Hawkeye Thunderbolts book would be cool.

We toyed with that idea when I did a Thunderbolts,

a good three -shoots Thunderbolts thing, and

we were going to have Hawkeye on that team as

sort of a like, you know, got caught, had broke

some laws, got caught by the kingpin and was

forced on the team. And it just, for where we

were going to go with the story, it felt like

really dark place to take Clint in a book that

wasn't. where he wasn't the focus you know it's

like it's okay to take Clint somewhere dark and

sort of put him through the wringer if it's his

book but in another book it's kind of just feels

cruel so uh we ended up not using him for this

for that for that Thunderbolts book but obviously

it was uh something that I was pushing for for

a bit, but then it didn't make sense. And you

got Bobby for Forceworks, but you didn't get

him in there either. Yeah, yeah. You got Bobby

for Forceworks. You know, Forceworks, we were

we were weighing like the original Forceworks

team, West Coast Avengers, like all that stuff.

And I really I love Bobby and and always like

to use her. She appeared in my Punisher run to

alongside Clint and I think she's a fun character

who's very underused. So I was really happy to

get to write her in Force Works. But yeah, again,

another character that it's like, it's really

hard to have her have her own book. It's hard

to get a Mockingbird book going. She had the

excellent one a few years ago, but. Yeah, I was

gonna say, I know your name is on the spine of

the Mockingbird series for book volume two. No,

that's not me. That's Rochelle Rosenberg, the

colorist. Oh, okay. Yeah. Because I kind of thought

maybe that you had been in that issue, the one

issue where Clint was in it. No, no. I don't

think I had anything. Wait, did I have something

in that tray? No, I didn't. No, I think that's

Rochelle, the colorist. Okay. Yeah, I think she

colored that book. A common... all the time at

cons, people want me to sign her books and her

to sign my books. We have to always be like,

no, I didn't work on this. And you know, one

in every 10 people is like, that's okay, you

can still sign it. Okay, sure. I'll sign it.

I didn't work on it. But yeah, let's go. I don't

think she does the same. I think if she doesn't

work on it, she says no, but she's the best.

She's great. So when you were preparing to to

take your first stab at Clint's writing. What

were some of the things that you looked back

on previously that brought some inspiration to

how you were going to approach it? Yeah, you

know, I always try and sort of dive in and jump

around to like the different eras. And I think

for me, I think the fun of doing Marvel is like

sort of the synthesis where you find all the

different takes and sort of put them in a blender

and take the parts that work for you and come

with something new and then add a little of your

own things. So for me, obviously the Bendis stuff

in New Avengers and Avengers was really big.

I love Brian's take. The Matt fraction, David

Aha, Hawkeye Book obviously is a big influence.

But I'm a big fan of like the first Hawkeye miniseries

the Mark Grunwald mini and The old like Avenger

spotlight solo Avenger stuff like that was some

of my favorite comics when I was a kid I would

like go find back issues of that stuff And even

you know, even back then which is like that that's

in 19 early 90s late 80s book I don't know. I

was like buying buying them in the dollar bin

when I was a kid, but That stuff even was still,

I mean, it was a Hawkeye book, but they couldn't

sell a Hawkeye book. So there was a stealth Hawkeye

book. It was called, you know, Solo Avengers

or Avenger Spotlight because they needed the

Avengers title. We actually toyed with calling

when we couldn't find a name, Hawkeye colon,

the Solo Avenger was going to be. was one of

the names I suggested. I wanted it to be the

solo Avenger or Hawkeye, the worst Avenger. And

they were like, we really don't want to call

one of our characters the worst Avenger. And

I was like, but it's a joke in the book. And

they were like, yeah, we get it. And I was like,

okay, well, I think it'd be funny. But so like

all that stuff, like going back to the early

Hawkeye stuff and then jumping around and you

know, those were sort of the big touchstones

for me. I really like. You know, honestly, I

like all the Hawkeye books. I really like Jeff

Lemire's, I like Kelly's, I like Jim McCann has

a great Hawkeye and Mockingbird book. I like

all that stuff. Fabian Necesa has a Hawkeye book,

but the big ones for me were definitely Fraction

and A -ha, Bendis's stuff and Mark Rynwald. Those

were the big sort of ones that I sort of studied

and took notes on. This is the first Christmas

we've had together in years. I love you guys.

I'm making up for some lost time. Authorities

are wondering if the masked vigilante who terrorized

the city's underworld is back. The past is caught

up with me. Should we be worried? No, no, it's

nothing. I'll be home for Christmas. I promise.

When I wore this suit, I made a whole lot of

enemies. You're a Hawkeye! Who the hell are you?

Some people have actually called me. The world's

greatest archer. Are you one of those people?

Hey, Dave. I should be back in a day or two.

Hang on a second. Things have gotten... more

complicated. Now speaking of Fraction, now it

feels like for looking at the Disney Plus series

and the trailers that we've seen come out, that

it's pulling a lot from Fraction's run. Yeah,

that's what it looks like. So what are you looking

forward to seeing them having translated over

from Fraction into the MCU? You know, I love

that story. I'm very curious because David's

work on that book is so iconic and so unique

and beautiful and, you know, he's just such a

master artist. I'm very curious to see if they

sort of pay tribute to that or try and, you know,

directorially try and match some of that. I think

he'd be very hard to go step -by -step with.

He's a very sort of idiosyncratic artist. But

I'm very curious if it's just going to be narratively,

you know, obviously character design and stuff

owes a lot to David and David's run. But I wonder

if we're just going to get a narrative version

of that story or if there's going to be more

visual cues. That's very exciting to me and obviously

I want to see Lucky. That'll be very fun. But

you know, I think for the most part, just the

way they stylize it will be very interesting.

And I hope they keep it exciting. Yeah, I was

really excited when they took the picture on

set with Jeremy in the purple, more modern suit.

Yeah, yeah. You know, just seeing that makes

you realize they're finally, you know going to

give him You know some of these aspects of his

comic character that we really haven't seen much

of beyond what they Brought over from the Ultimates.

Yeah. Yeah and then part of me also realized,

you know Out of all of the characters, we don't

know his childhood story because they've given

us pretty much everyone except maybe Bruce Banner.

But we have no history of Clint for MCU beyond

when he recruited Natasha and knowing that he

had married and kids. So I'm going to be curious

to see what of his childhood is going to be popping

forth. That, you know, they really focused in

the comics with the circus and Barney and seeing

all of that. Yeah, yeah. That would be really

fun. I think he has such a fun, unusual origin.

for for the marvel universe i think it's it's

very like it it makes clint stand out in a good

way he honestly like he has a very like deep

you know he has a very dc -esque origin really

like a lot of dc characters come from the circus

so it's it's very uh you know it's it's always

fun to have clint as the sort of oddball that

he is yeah i think that'd be really fun to have

barney in there and sort of You know, anything

to sort of give Clint more. I always like him

in the movies, and I think he's really good,

but he's not as fun as he is in the comics. And

I think giving him a history and trying to make

him a little more fun could go a long way, for

sure. Yeah. I retire for what, like five minutes,

and it all goes to shit. What are some things

that you hope don't come over from the Fraction

comics? Wow. I don't know. I don't know if there's

anything that I hope doesn't come over. I think.

No, I mean, I really like those books so much.

I'd be happy to see them sort of, you know, kind

of pay tribute to any of it. And, you know, the

fun thing is always like about the Marvel TV

and film stuff is seeing how they take the bookstories

and tweak them and reinvent them and make them

work for the screen so like even stuff that I'm

not as In love with in the books like I sort

of still get excited about seeing that on the

screen because I'm like Well, how are they gonna

approach this? How are they gonna deal with?

These things that didn't work for me and and

and they're very good at I think they're very

good at finding things that that didn't 100 %

click but are now in continuity and just sort

of ensconced in the history of these characters

and finding them and finding these good ways

to sort of massage them and make them work. And

so I can't think of anything in the Matt and

David's run that really didn't work for me. I

really do love that run. But just on a bigger

scale, I think anything that doesn't work, I'm

always like, well, let's see how they handle

that, is always a fun kind of thing. Yeah for

me the only thing I could think of is I'm not

sure I actually want to see like dog cops on

a television screen It's like I love the idea

of this show and his obsession with it But at

the same time I really don't want to see what

it visually would look like like him watching

a TV with it on uh -huh That's fair That's like

the one thing I kind of am like, I don't, I don't

really need the visual there. Yeah. Well, I think

that's fair. Well, it'll be interesting. It'll

be interesting to see if they throw that on there.

That's a funny gag. We're still friends, right?

Now, you know, if you could write an episode

on the Hawkeye show, just knowing kind of what

They're going for for the season. What would

you want to what part of it? Would you want to

really be involved with? If it's based on the

you know, if we're pulling stuff from Matt and

David's run like yeah Obviously the issue that's

from the POV of the dog is the one you want to

write like that's the most fun the pizza dog

issue is, I think, the way to go. I would love

to write that. Yeah, it's the Eisner Award winner

one, isn't it? I think so. Yeah, I think I'll

try it. It's just so iconic and different. Like

even in the comic, it's so, you know, even in

comics where you feel like they should be taking

risks and doing weirder stuff more often, it's

like you just don't get a lot of stuff like that.

And when you do, it's really striking, and they

really hit it out of the park. It's not just

that they took a chance, but that they really

went for it, and it's great. I would love to

see the show do that, you know? Good job, Hawkeye.

Go get your arrow. All I want at this point is

forget Hawkeye and Bucky. I want Hawkeye and

Grayson. I want Hawkeye and Nightwing. That's

what I want. That's my fan fiction world that

I write over and agree on. Yes, I know. Yeah

They came from they came from the same circus

they were rivals now they're best friends. Yeah,

that's a fun one. They They're not in any of

that Like the the crossover stuff. I feel like

there isn't I don't remember any like of this

crossover books having them No, the only crossover

I have of them is like the Avengers Justice League

one and that is where I think it's Ollie wakes

up having a dream or or one of them wakes up

having a dream where Clint and Dinah are together

uh -huh and It's like for two pages, but it's

the one moment where Clint is actually a member

of the Justice League, so I think he is the only

Avenger who can actually say in their comic credit

that they've been shown as a Justice League member.

That's great, yeah. I'm writing a book at DC

now called DC vs. Vampires, which I'm doing with

my buddy James Tynan, and then Otto Schmidt,

who did Hawkeye Freefall with me. And it's a

really fun book and it's dark and it's crazy

and it's weird, but I'm trying to make it fun

and Otto, he just naturally draws things that

are full of life and humor in a way that doing

a weird horror book with him is such a fun challenge

because... everything he does is so beautiful,

and you're like, no, this has to be horrific,

Otto. The idea came from James. It was a book

that James wanted to do, and James is very Bat

family -oriented, and he's a big Bat fan, obviously,

and just loves that stuff. And when I came on

board, I immediately was like, there's not enough

Green Arrow in this. We need more Ollie. We need

more Dinah. And so... immediately like we started

reworking it from like the minute I like the

day I came on board I was like needs more ollie

like right away let's go so I'm really excited

because I get to work with Otto on an ollie Dino

story that also has you know Batgirl and Nightwing

and Batman and Constantine and all these other

awesome characters that I love but it is it is

stealth It's funny because I think the cover,

the first one, we had a cover that didn't have

Ollie on it. And by the time we were a certain

way into the arc, Ben Abernethy, who's the editor

on the book, was like, there's so much green

arrow in this. We need to put him on the cover.

And I was like, all right. I wasn't going to

tell you that this was a stealth green arrow

book, but it's a stealth green arrow book. Let's

throw him on there. Well, honestly, can I tell

you, when I saw you show the first cover on your

Twitter feed, that's when I turned around and

went to my comic book store and had it put on,

because I'm like, oh my gosh, Batman and Ollie.

I need this. Yeah, I'm really excited. It's very

fun. And I think there's good ways to have fun

with Bruce, but a story like this, it's very

hard to make Bruce fun. because it's end of the

world stuff and he is the most sort of driven

and relentless about that stuff. And so having

Ollie, who also is very serious and very, you

know, determined when he needs to be, but also

is a little funnier and a little more willing

to like make quips and stuff. it's really fun

to play them off each other. I literally was

just writing a scene for them last night that

I was like, oh, this is exactly the book that

I want to be writing right now. So I'm very excited

for that stuff. But there's no Clint in it. Yeah,

no. Otto, I know occasionally on his Twitter

feed, he has this like little world that he draws

from, which is like Clint. Bobby, Ollie, and

Dinah in it. Yeah, yeah. They're like always

double dating sort of in his mind. Yeah, they're

always double dating. And they're, you know,

showing the similarities between the two couples.

And yeah. But my favorite one is like this one

where the boys are beaten and like bandaged up

and the girls are sitting on the bed behind them,

you know, just chatting, not a single scratch

on them. Yeah. Yeah, the auto is very he's a

big Bobby fan and when Hawkeye when when he took

freefall You know one of the first things he

said to me he was like Bobby's in this and I

was like, yes But if that's not she's not the

romantic interest. She's not in it a lot and

he was like Very sad, but I was like night nurse.

We got night nurse in it Like this is Clint's

thing and if we were gonna keep going it was

gonna be like there was gonna be more Bobby to

it and I said to him I was like, you know if

we got past six like Bobby has a bigger role

for sure because it's sort of the All the women

who who love Clint and sort of you know have

to look out for him all the time and take care

of him will all sort of be stepping in to form

a like my idea was that they're like a sort of

task force to stop him before someone nastier

stops him from doing it. And so I was like, there's

going to be like a Mockingbird leading a team

kind of thing, an anti -Clint team, but done

with love. Task Force Barton. Yeah, there you

go. So we didn't get to that. So I'm always sad

for Otto because he loves Bobby so much. But

I was like, well, I'll get you lots of Dinah

in this book. uh comes comes out he's gonna be

happy he's happy in the end so yeah well that's

good to hear i'm now now knowing that you know

i'm going to be seeing auto with uh with ollie

and dina i'm like super now excited yeah yeah

we uh you know we haven't shown a lot of the

cat like the the dc versus vampires book is really

fun but it really expands out in a lot of ways

so like You know, people keep being like, oh,

is this Batman versus everyone? And we're like,

no, it's not really about Batman. Like he's just

on a bunch of covers because that was stuff was

planned early, but it's really not a Batman book

as much as it's a DC Universe book. So, but yeah,

Dinos ended a bunch for sure. I have a question.

Yes. Is Batman on the cover because Batman sells

the most? Yeah, I'm sorry. I couldn't if you

want me to edit that out I will but I could not

just not ask that it's not a you know people

people are always like Weirdly cagey about it

and it's like well. He's the most iconic superhero

character in the history of superheroes This

is Kevin Conway, and I am the goddamn Batman

He is the lead in the best -selling comic like

yeah, they use that like Marvel has a bunch of

characters that all will move the needle when

you put them on a cover. DC does too, but not

like Batman. Batman is in a league of their own.

So yeah, they throw Batman on the covers whenever

they can. you know if it makes sense he's not

he's in the book and he does things he is a central

character and the bat family are very very important

and pivotal but uh yeah i mean if it comes down

to it and and we have a cover meeting where they

go should we put you know uh john constantine

on the cover or batman like i can say john constantine

but they'll be like well If we put Batman on,

the book sells better and that's better for you

and everybody. And, you know, at the end of the

day, we want readers. So people who get very

excited about Batman. I mean, it's the same thing

with like the Joker, that it's like, this is,

you know, I write a Joker book at DC and people

are always like, oh, I'm so sick of the Joker.

Why do they keep doing this? And it's like they

keep doing it because it's the most popular villain

in all of comics. So you could be sick of it.

But while other people are not, they really like

them. So don't sit on other squee. Yeah, and

I have to be honest. I have not I need to catch

up on your work Sure, but I have seen and I have

read the solicits for puzzle book and wow That's

one way to take the Joker Yeah, it's a that's

a really fun one. It's very I'm I'm always sort

of shocked that they let us do What we're doing

because it's a very weird It's a very weird book

just in the context of all of comics like You

know, it's it's short stories and with an unreliable

narrator, but it's all connected and yeah, it's

it's a it's a fun one That's really weird and

I'm really happy but you know I think the Joker

is also like just such a versatile character

like people tend to think like oh There's like

the Joker means a certain thing and it's like

it really doesn't like I'm drawing a lot from,

like, you know, 1960s Joker. I'm drawing a lot

from, like, the TV show Joker and Golden Age

Joker, as much as I'm drawing from any other

era. And it's like, these are very different

characters. Like, there are a lot of different

iterations of those characters that I think are

all really effective, so. Ooh, this could be

a fair fight after all. And who wants to see

that? I really like writing the Joker. I think

he's very fun. Well, I was going to say before

we wrap up, you know, we've got these 19 issues

you've got coming out within the next two months.

Yeah. Why don't you take some moment and just,

you know, give us a rundown of everything you're

working on right now and where people can, you

know, basically send you money. Well, it doesn't

go to me. I hope people give money to their local

comic shop. But I'm going to miss things and

feel like an idiot. So starting. This month,

the end of October, I'm launching two books at

DC. The aforementioned DC vs. Vampires, which

is me and James Tyne and Otto Schmidt doing a

full -on vampire invasion of the DC universe,

like anything goes, sort of chaotic, carnage

-fueled. romp that I'm very excited about. And

then I'm also doing the same day a book called

Task Force Z, which is me and Eddie Barrows doing

a Red Hood story about Red Hood leading a team

of zombified villains. It's sort of a suicide

squad, but they're already dead. And then...

Right after that, I'm doing a run on Detective.

I'm doing the backup stories for Mariko Tamaki's

excellent detective book. But me and Fernando

Blanco are doing this story that I don't know

how much I can talk about. I guess there's solicits

are out. It's sort of a story of a little boy

who could have been a robin. growing up in Gotham

but just always like a sort of a sliding door

thing where he's just outside of Bruce Wayne's

grasp to save him. And so he's a little boy who

falls through the cracks and finds the other

side of Gotham. And that's a 12 issue thing that

I'm doing that I'm very excited about. It's also

in Detective Comics so that's such a cool honor.

Then I have the Joker puzzle box which is out

a few issues throughout. I think three issues

are out now which is a very fun weird one like

I just said and then What else am I doing and

then the only other big thing I'm doing a couple

issues of Filling in for James Tynan on a couple

issues of his Joker series. It's me and Francesco

Francovia Doing sort of Jim Gordon tales back

in time. So we're doing a sort of a killing joke

era, Jim Gordon. We did an earlier issue. I did

issue five, which was me and Francesco doing

a sort of Batman year one tale on Jim Gordon.

And so now I'm doing a couple that are that are

more closer to like the killing joke era that

that sort of time period in his life. And then

I have a new creator on book coming out November

10th from Image Comics called What's the furthest

place from here? That is me and my buddy Tyler

Boss, who I did a book called Four Kids Walking

to a Bank with. And yeah, it's sort of a post

-apocalyptic coming -of -age story about gangs

of children wandering the wastelands of America

after the end of the world. And just one of their

gangs goes missing and they have to sort of set

out to try and find her and figure out what happened

to her. It's really fun. We're really proud of

it. It's sort of something I've been working

on for four years. So like, I'm very excited

to actually have it coming out. It's one of those

things where you work on something for so long

that you lose all perspective on whether or not

it's good or worth your time. And so for the

last year, I've kind of been in having low grade

anxiety about it all the time, but then... we

finally have it announced. So I got to send it

to a bunch of people and I sent it to a bunch

of creators and they were all incredibly sweet

and nice and supportive and really enthusiastic

about it. So that made me feel good. And maybe

the audience will buy it and also be as enthusiastic

as other comic creators were, I hope. So I've

been seeing a lot of, you know, people you know,

talking that being excited about it on the internet.

So yeah, hopefully that's going to result in

going to comic book stores and grabbing it. Yeah,

I hope so. We're trying to do some like cool

things with it. We're really playing with the

medium a lot. And me and Tyler really pushing

ourselves and you know, we made the first issue,

the first issue 64 pages and the next bunch of

issues are 48 pages, we're trying to give people

their money's worth and give them a big story

that doesn't feel like a bunch of other stuff

they've seen before. So Yeah, I'm really excited

about it and I hope people do pick it up and

give it a chance if they liked anything else

I've done or even if they didn't, sure, let's

say that. I hope they give it a chance because

I think we worked really hard on it and that's

worth something, sure. To help you remember,

I kind of went to one of these websites quickly

that's like, who's writing what right now? And

it's got you listed still writing Legends of

the Dark Knight. Oh, so yeah, I wrote that that's

an anthology book. So I just wrote one issue

of that which came out today yesterday. Issue

six, yes. So yes, that is correct. That is in

my list of current projects. I wrote Legend of

the Dark Knight 6. Me and Keon Torme did a Batman

killer croc story in a flooded Gotham. And that's

half of the book. And then the other half is

a very cool Solomon Grundy story that I really

liked a lot. Yeah. Now, it seems almost all your

work right now is DC. Do you have anything in

Marvel like with Spider -Man? No. I'm not doing

anything in Marvel at the moment. DC kind of

filled up my plate. And then I have some creator

-owned stuff. I have the image book. And then

some other creator -owned stuff I've been working

on. Yeah, it's just the way the cookie crumbles

that DC had a bunch of stuff that I couldn't

say no to. And so that's where I landed. I did

write a little bit of Spider -Man last year.

I co -wrote. five issues of Amazing last year

with Nick Spencer. But that was it. I don't have

anything coming up for Marvel right now, no.

I'm just a fan. Well, you're in good company

right now with that. Sure. So yeah, I guess the

last thing I gotta ask is, Matt, with your intimate

knowledge of Hawkeye and his world. Do you want

to be a Hawkeye? Wow. I'm going to say no. I'm

going to say no. The sad thing is, like, if there

was any superhero I would be, he's probably the

one I would be. But no, I don't want to be a

Hawkeye. You don't want to fall off roofs into

dumpsters and stuff? No, no. I don't want to

barely make it out of every fight. That's not

a good way to be. Thor shows up and sometimes

he just clobbers everybody and leaves and he

looks great. He doesn't even break a sweat. That's

a good one to be. Um, I mean, you know, except

for the fact of when he goes up against force

fields and, and thank God this podcast is explicit.

Holy shit. Hey language. The other question we

need to ask you and we need to work this into

future things. Alison, if you didn't want to

be a Hawkeye, which trick arrow would you want?

Trick arrows are so hard. You know, I like just

a good old fashioned like gas arrow, like knockout

gas. Like that's just a good arrow. That's just

useful. You're not hurting people bad. It's good

for stealth. It's funny. Like that's a good arrow.

Like, you know, explosive arrow has limited use.

Like boomerang arrow has almost no use. There's

a lot that are very specific, but I think knockout

gas, that's just always useful. That's a good

one. That one's too dangerous. That one's too

dangerous. Are there any ones that aren't dangerous?

Jeremy's facing that one where he's just fighting

his lip and looking away. I'm like, yep, nope,

there's Clint. Yeah. That's a good bet for sure.

Where can the people find you online, sir? Sure,

so I have a Twitter and it's Ashcanpress, A -S

-H -C -A -N -P -R -E -S -S, no, it's not dot

com, it's just Twitter. It's at Ashcanpress.

I think I have that for everything. I have it

for Instagram and I have it for Facebook. I just

always forget to use those. I'm on Twitter more

than I'm on the others. And then I have a newsletter.

which is sub stack dot Matthew Rosenberg dot

com or sub stack dot com slash Matthew Rosenberg.

Some permutation of those words, however sub

stack formats it. I have a newsletter that I

send out where I talk about my work. I'm going

to start doing it more frequently and go in depth.

One of the things I'm hoping to do next year

is go through a lot of my books and sort of show

some behind -the -scenes stuff and some pitches

and and process stuff and and just give anecdotes

sort of issue by issue on on stuff that I remember

and you know, I I mentioned that some people

and I mentioned online and a bunch of people

were like Oh, are you gonna do Hawkeye? And I

was like, well, yeah, I would definitely do Hawkeye

so hoping to do next year is sort of go issue

by issue of Hawkeye and sort of talk about the

process and you know, all the little inside secrets

and, you know, we have a bunch of deleted scenes

and stuff that I would probably like to show

at some point. Awesome. Anything else you want

to ask him, Allison, before I run through the

outro? No, I am just very thankful that you that

you said yes and came over to join us for the

day. Oh, no, this was a blast. Thank you so much

for having me. This was super fun. Absolutely.

All right, folks, that's going to do it for us

here inside the pull bag and on Studio 2009.

Honestly, between the two podcasts, there are

way too many Twitters and Facebooks and whatever.

All the links will be in the show notes. Where

can the people find you online, Allison? I am

at Twitter at Allison, at AllieSkyRichards, A

-L -I -S -K -Y -R -I -C -H -A -R -E -S. I am

at TF2 and Mike, make your great escape into

comics and we will catch you next time here Inside

the Pull Bag and on Studio 2009. Hi, my name

is Dr. Andraela Namendi, clinical psychologist.

And I'm Brian Ward, nerd. And we want to invite

you to listen to our new podcast, The Arkham

Sessions. It's a podcast dedicated to the fun...

And geeky... Analysis of Batman the animated

series, episode by episode. We pay tribute to

the writers and the stories of the animated series.

While also exploring the very real psychology

behind Gotham's robes. And maybe even its heroes.

All of this and more... Each week... On The Arkham

Sessions. at underthemaskonline .com. Look, I

know this may sound weird, but I've dreamed of

this for as long as I can remember. When I put

that suit on, I thought, this is it. This is

the moment I become who I'm supposed to be. I

remember the day I thought the same thing. You

know, this life you want to live, it comes with

a price. Well, there's also things you gain.

Like trick arrows in a cool costume. I'm sorry,

Kate. I'm not a role model to anyone. Yes, you

are. As far as I'm concerned, we're in this together.

Do you mind getting that? My mom canceled my

credit card. We need a car. Oh, can we take this

one? Man, this thing is beautiful. We're not

smashing a 72 challenger. Come on. Let's go.

Get over here. I need you to drive. What? I don't

want to drive. Come over here. No, you drive.

I shoot. I'm not hearing you. You drive, OK?

Not this one. All right, you don't have to say

definitely like that. Not this one. This is too

dangerous. I'm using this one. Be careful. I

was born careful. They're not regular arrows.