Planet of the Apes Retrospective – Conquest of the Planet of the Apes Review

Hi, this is Jim Meskerman, voice of the Blue

Genie, and what geeks are you listening to? I'll

tell you. You're listening to The Cinema Geeks.

Always know what geeks you're listening to. It's

very important. Hello, and welcome to episode

255 of The Cinema Geeks. I am one of your Cinema

Geeks optimists, Solo, and joining me, as usual,

is the comic concierge. Hello, Dan. Hello. How

are you today? I'm good. We are back in the Planet

of the Apes world, so it's interesting bouncing

back and forth between our westerns and our apes,

and it's made for some interesting experiences,

so I'm intrigued. As we go through all of these

first -time watches for you, it's very entertaining

for me to see your reactions to the films, and

especially knowing a little bit about what was

coming and things of that nature, so I can't

wait to get into this one. Obviously, it was

a first time watch for you. It's a second time

watch for me. We talked about that at the end

of the last episode. So hopefully people have

been tuning in for all of the different Planet

of the Apes episodes as we've made our way through

this original series. We're now on film four

out of the five originals. And I think we'll

just jump right into it. And before we get into

our opinions, Dan's going to lay some groundwork

for the conquest of the Planet of the Apes from

1972. So Dan, take it away. I don't know, maybe

just don't have a pet, because this week we continue

our Planet of the Apes retrospective with a review

of Conquest of the Planet of the Apes from 1972,

directed by J. Lee Thompson, starring Roddy McDowall,

Don Murray, and Ricardo Montalban. The story

takes place in 1991. Oh, the 90s. After a mysterious

disease wiped out Earth's dogs and cats. With

traditional pets gone, humans begin using apes

as servants and laborers. Basically, glorified

slaves. Chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans

are trained to perform everything from household

chores to dangerous industrial work. The apes

are subjected to some abusive behavior and physically

harmed when they don't do what they're told correctly.

Unknown to most humans, Caesar, the intelligent

son of Cornelius and Zira from Escape from the

Planet of the Apes, has actually survived. He

was raised secretly by the circus owner Armando,

played by Ricardo Montalban, who has protected

him since his birth from the authorities. Caesar

is eventually separated from Armando and taken

to a facility where apes are trained. There,

he witnesses firsthand the cruelty inflicted

upon his fellow apes. Because Caesar can speak,

he initially hides his intelligence, communicating

only when he is certain nobody is watching. Eventually,

Caesar can no longer remain silent. He begins

teaching other apes simple words and encouraging

them to resist the human masters. His actions

spark an increasingly organized ape rebellion.

The authorities discover that Caesar is the intelligent

ape they've once been searching for and attempt

to capture him. Caesar escapes and joins thousands

of other apes in an uprising throughout the city.

The rebellion becomes violent with the apes fighting

their way through police barricades and attacking

the humans who oppress them. Caesar ultimately

finds himself in a position where he can either

continue the cycle of violence or attempt to

establish a new society which one did caesar

choose well it depends upon which version of

the movie that you watched if you watch the theatrical

cut the ending is a bit more hopeful with caesar

choosing peace over violence where the director's

cut has the original intended ending that is

much more violent and depressing where caesar

is not so peaceful After Escape from the Planet

of the Apes performed well, 20th Century Fox

ordered another sequel, but they didn't give

it a lot of money, only a budget of $1 .7 million,

which was the lowest of the series thus far.

Like the previous film, though, that low budget

helped develop the actual look of the movie.

Rather than constructing futuristic sets, they

used Central City and Los Angeles. As their location,

the modern office buildings and plazas already

looked to the filmmakers like the idea of a future

a bit bland and kind of dead, and it began filming

there in 1972. Ronnie McDowell did return to

the series to play Caesar. He, of course, played

Caesar's father, Cornelius, in earlier films.

That striking family resemblance was there for

a reason, although it wasn't the most comfortable

shoot for him because early in the filming, he

sprained his ankle and had to continue working

despite the injury. Director J. Lee Thompson

and writer Paul Dean made Conquest much more

overtly political than the earlier films. The

imagery of apes being forced to work, beaten

by police, and treated as inferior was clearly

designed to evoke similar contemporary feelings

involving racism, civil rights, and political

repression at the time. And that even included

the ending, as the ending the audiences originally

saw in theaters was not the ending the filmmakers

originally made. Originally, after Caesar's revolution

succeeds, the apes ring captured Governor Breck

before him, and Caesar orders Breck's execution,

and the apes beat him to death with the butt

of their rifles. That will leave several marks.

Test audiences, though, reacted very negatively

to the ending, specifically the amount of violence

it included, and the studio was also worried

it would get an R rating, so it was changed to

the much more peaceful resolution that is included

in the theatrical cut. Despite those changes,

the film still received a mixed reception from

critics when it was released, although the reputation

has improved over the years, in large part because

now you can see the original intended ending

in the director's cut. Despite the middling reviews,

it was still a financial success, making $9 .6

million at the box office, greenlighting yet

another sequel. However, what do Kevin and I

think? Back to us to discuss. As always, thanks

for the facts about Conquest of the Planet of

the Apes. Dan, I have a couple questions for

you here just to start this one. One main one

here is... You know, we've had a lot of different

twists and turns as we've gone through these

original films because the first one seems to

end in a spot where you shouldn't follow up because,

you know, it has a pretty defining finish to

it. And then in the second one, they blow up

the world. And how do you come back from that?

Well, we've learned that time travel will take

you back from that. And finally, we got from

the third film where it actually did leave you

with a very... easy connect the dots like we

know where we're going with the uh at least we

know the pathway to get to a sequel like nothing

exploded the world didn't end no nuclear holocaust

we have a baby chimp at the end of the third

one you can figure that we're gonna somewhat

follow that trajectory we just don't know where

how when we go to the fourth one so um so i'm

curious too how that worked this time where there

it wasn't as much of a mystery like where we

were gonna go for some on some level even though

how we get there and what we do is obviously

going to be somewhat of a mystery another thing

that we've mentioned a couple times and i forgot

to mention it last film but something that i

found interesting when i was watching these original

films the first time was the ties to at that

point what i had only seen was was rise of the

planet of the apes from the modern series and

seen different things that either were inspiration

for what they did with rise or in my mind i was

always trying to think like is the new one going

to connect like specifically connect not that

it's all going to be like this like shared universe

or whatever but i was like with time travel and

all this other different stuff like is it somehow

going to connect or is it just going to be like

little bits and pieces and and so i i know in

one of the other films we got somebody said apes

don't hurt apes or something of that nature and

i don't remember if it was the second film or

the third film and i forgot to mention it on

the record and that was obviously when we when

we hear that we're like oh you know we definitely

know that from what we see in the modern versions

of these films and this film is going to definitely

scratch a little bit of that itch when it comes

to planting some seeds for things that we're

going to recognize from our watching of the modern

uh series So I'm curious how much of that you

picked up on and how did it work when we kind

of knew which way we were going with this baby

Milo? Obviously, we're going to have a name change

in here, but it may have been jarring or not.

It depends on how close you're paying attention,

I guess, to that. But what was your original

take here now that you've seen Conquest of the

Planet of the Apes? We've been a little bit all

over the place. Obviously, we both really liked

the first one. We were both not as sold on the

second one. I think the third one kind of split

the difference in the middle somewhere. And I'm

curious, like with conquest kind of where that

falls for you and, and, and what you liked and

didn't like about this one. I will say like regarding

the trajectory, I feel like this similar to the

last film is far more in line with like the original

and what, what we're looking for for the original,

which is taking this crazy idea and approaching

some interesting idea. concepts or psychological

questions in a way i will get both social and

psychological right social and psychological

and some maybe asking maybe some of them were

maybe a bit tone deaf we'll see but i will say

you know going into this you say like oh we know

the op you know the good idea where this was

going it but honestly i i didn't because i wondered

like how much would it jump into the future like

would it yeah you know it's literally character

was caesar so i'm like oh maybe it is just like

it's like hit another descendant of a descendant

or something like that i didn't know it would

be milo just older now and you know roddy mcdowell

playing his own ape son which is you know i guess

makes sense but uh you know we're in the 90s

so different version of the 90s than i remember

a little bit more bleak uh i feel like you know

no simpsons references or anything like that

so i was a little surprised about by that uh

but i thought Ultimately, you can see this as

a franchise that is holding on for dear life

in a lot of ways. The budget clearly has gone

down. The ape costumes are not what they once

were. When it comes to Rodney McDowell, Caesar,

they're spending a lot of time and effort there

and maybe for a few of the female apes, which

they seem to really doll up a little bit. Some

of the other costumes, you feel the age, you

feel the budget. you know going down a bit or

like not being what it once was but i think the

general idea of it it does a really good job

of like you kind of rooting for the demise of

humanity like it's like it's like yeah like i

hope the apes win like i you know it's like they're

kind of jerks you know uh although like i feel

like if the if the idea is you can't have dogs

or cats as pets anymore because they died so

you have to have apes i feel like i just would

go no pets maybe maybe fish like i feel like

it sounded like there was a progression but they

didn't really give us what that was it was like

dogs and cats are gone and then they started

it seemed like they were hinting at that like

they started with some other animal and then

like it kept progressing to the fact Or to the

point where we got to apes. I want to know what

those other animals were. Like, where did we

go in the middle? They tried kangaroos, but they

kicked too much, and they fought back. My guess

is maybe red pandas, because red pandas are really

cute and cuddly, but maybe they don't do much.

I don't know. Was it wolves? Was it rabbits?

Like, what did we do here? Pigs, maybe? Because

pigs can be smart. I don't know. They're messy,

so I don't know. There's so many different options

there. yeah like i generally the ones that will

go to the ones that are the least pet like on

the ones that are closest to humans and furthest

from pet yeah smartest ones possible and also

make them slaves yes it's like i guess it's like

it's all the same this is either robots or apes

we're going to make them slaves and they're either

is going to rise against us maybe we think we

have a better shot with the apes i'm not sure

uh but I had a good time with it. Like I said,

it's, it is bleak. I know going in some behind

the scenes, you mentioned like, Hey, there's

a, there's a director's cut and there's a theatrical

cut. I just saw the theatrical cut, which was

bleak enough. I can imagine what the, what director's

cut was, but I do know there's different endings

and we can talk about that a bit, but it is pretty

bleak. And I do think they use the lack of budget

in some good ways where this is the most like

dull looking set. in the world it's just gray

there's like nothing there it's like the it's

like the worst mall you ever went to uh it's

that is you know we have dead malls now but like

it's like similar to that where there's just

no it's just like the corporate structure of

where we live today where like buildings have

no personality it feels very akin to that so

there you know there are certainly elements like

i said that like we can get into but i i generally

enjoyed my time i think i was i'm meeting the

movie where it's at And it's not, you know, this

is not on the level of the first film, but I

think it does a much better job of approaching

similar ideas of the first film compared to whatever

that second movie was. Yeah, I feel like we almost

have to ignore the second one, but it does have

some major plot points that are important, I

guess. But yeah, I think with this one, I'm torn

in a way. I do really enjoy that it deals with

some of the social controversial or hot topic

type things, which we've had a lot throughout,

right? We've dealt with a lot of different things

that are, whether they were hot button topics

of the time then or now, or whether it's a science

fiction type thing where it projects some sort

of topic in the future that... men would have

to wrestle with. That's one of the things I really

like about Star Trek The Next Generation is they

did a lot more of actually really dissecting

issues and the human element versus what you

do in these certain situations and what's right

and what's wrong and is there right and wrong.

I really like that about that and I feel like

that's when Planet of the Apes is doing the best

work is when they're really using this dynamic

between humans and apes or the ape society you

know ape to gorilla to orangutan and just really

kind of diving into these other deeper societal

like concepts i think that that's one thing that

you're doing a little bit here which i really

enjoy i also really enjoy the nuggets that remind

me or that like connected the modern series like

obviously we get caesar and as soon as you hear

that name you're like your ears peak and like

perk up right you're like oh like i know caesar's

from the original or from the modern series like

how is this going to connect is it going to be

the same story is this the same caesar that we're

going to get a different version is it connected

somehow so like you're always like a little bit

like perked up when you hear that so and there's

some different things that definitely you can

see like there's probably more connections to

conquest so far out of all the original ones

we've watched to rise like i i think that's almost

not debatable right like There's more connections

between this film and what we get with Rise versus

any of the other ones so far. Obviously, we have

another one still to go. So all of that kind

of stuff I enjoy. I don't know how much I enjoy

how dark and bleak this is. The other one, you

get the comedy, and then you get the political

thriller, and then you do end with a little tragedy,

and then this one's like, hey, remember that

tragedy from the last one? We're going to give

you a whole film just like that. It doesn't come

up for air very often. There's not much to cut

through that. It's like a meal where you have

something super heavy, and every element of the

meal is also heavy, and then you get a heavy

dessert. and you're like i just need some like

acidity or something like i just need something

to cut this it's all broccoli it's just all broccoli

it's like yeah you're not getting like you're

still just trying to mouth through the vegetables

like that's all you got vegetables for like four

courses here and like there is not much that

lets you out of that it does definitely make

you root for the apes at some points similar

to the modern series like there's definitely

times where you're kind of rooting for the apes

in that respect as well feel like i made a mistake

watching the unrated version i can imagine i

just like it's bleak enough and the unrated version

just like it doesn't change a whole lot but it's

enough where it's like i needed a palate cleanser

at the end of this like i like what do i need

to do to to feel good about myself or life or

human beings in general so like that's the part

where i'm like you got to be in the right frame

mindset to like watch this one and to like have

make sure you're going to do something fun afterwards

like yeah but you don't want to watch this one

and then like have to go host like your child's

birthday party like i no this is not what it

is against that summer movie blockbuster like

oh let's go have a good time it's like that's

this is this is all awful it's like you're basically

watching 60 minutes of torture and then the next

30 minutes of revolt and it's all bloody and

just bad you know and it's like even the revolt

is not fun to watch it yeah it's it's stark how

like realistic is the right word but like it's

certainly like there is bloodshed on both sides

like they don't no one is left unscathed for

sure and I think obviously that's the point and

I know we kind of danced around it a bit but

you do see like it is linking back to like slavery

a good deal and so much of it is put on like

harry rhodes character mcdonald's where it's

like almost the point where i'm like is this

is this okay can you do that like you usually

all people should understand what this is about

i'm like do is it bad when like you're using

your one black character as like use like leveraging

the suffrage of black people to sell your film

is that okay but i also realize this is 1972

we're still coming out of the civil rights movement

clearly i think because what what can be progressive

at one time can seem tone deaf later and i try

to i think it's important to try to understand

like the time and place in which it came out

um so i do think when this is coming out it is

trying to be very poignant and honestly like

probably hugely controversial for a lot of people

being so blatant with what it's trying to say

i think it probably could anger a lot of people

especially for a movie that is meant to be a

blockbuster uh but i did sometimes i'm like maybe

like get give the guy a break a little bit like

you're making it but it had making no qualms

with the point it's making and i guess that's

what it's been like since the beginning so maybe

it's just staying true to that yeah i get that

as well i was i think too it's interesting because

when you are looking for like something to like

latch on to that's not just like dread like just

dread to come out because it's a future film

and just like it's not doom and gloom like you

have ricardo montalban return as our mom right

like he's like uh gonna start us off on this

journey and and obviously he has milo who he

has renamed caesar and then caesar just happens

to also pick caesar out of the book so that it's

a weird like fortuitous thing i guess that happens

but he brought he got he picked c so it's like

i guess that worked but um so you have his character

and like you're like okay like armando's character

is going to be fighting for caesar and and for

this against this mistreatment so you're going

to be able to follow that and it's like well

spoiler alert for this movie that is 50 years

old but you know armando dies and then it's like

okay um who else is going to fight against us?

And I guess you kind of get like the, um, McDonald

character a little bit, but it's like, there's

really, there's really not much else to latch

on to. Like, there's not like you're kind of

at that point just in Caesar's camp, but this

Caesar is much different than the Caesar we get

in the more modern version. I think like the

more modern film series develops this aspect

of Caesar over like multiple films. And in here,

we're trying to do it within one film with not

as much time to really dive into it and get him

to the point where he's going to break or where

he's going to start the revolt. We have to go

really quickly with how he's influencing the

rest of the apes. Yes. You don't get a whole

lot of teaching them much. They just flick a

switch and they're able to follow him. yeah he

starts his little underground meetings and everything

he's got a great communication network because

man a lot of people showed up to those so yeah

i guess a lot of apes i said but yeah so yeah

we have that going on as well i'm curious though

when it comes to caesar so we've talked a little

bit about each of these films with like the main

protagonists that were we obviously get charlton

heston the first one and then we get timu charlton

heston in the second one and then we go back

and we have Cornelius and Zira doing like the

main heavy lifting in the third one and now we

have Caesar so do you think Caesar is the most

compelling protagonist we've had since Charlton

Heston or how do you think he stacks up with

like the likes of like what Cornelius and Zira

were doing in the film before that's a good question

and I think what I liked about it was like seeing

Caesar being the mirror of Charlton Heston's

character in the first film, him going through

basically the same experience, going into this

world, seeing his kind, his people being abused,

mistreated. You have that really prolonged sequence

where we see all the different apes being abused

in different ways. And so I think it's effective

in the sense of after seeing that and seeing

what happened to those people, why he would...

go the route he does uh although his his choice

for getting captured seemed like the worst possible

choice but i guess you know you like i said hiding

plate in sight maybe it's your best option i

did find compelling in that sense i did understand

like where he was coming from and seeing him

like the vicious nature that he develops just

because of the Seeing the people around him,

I keep seeing people, but his fellow apes being

so graphically tortured in so many different

ways. I thought that was effective. Like I said,

I bought into, I'm on Team Caesar. Yeah, we should

certainly take out these humans because they

are just mistreating them in every way possible.

And I do think we get a little bit of some...

small world building in the in in the background

where you hear these things like we the announcements

right they do a lot of heavy lifting of thing

where you know certain apes have been found about

so you get the idea that like that's already

kind of going on he's just he's just you know

the match has been lit he's just pouring the

care the kerosene or whatever you want to call

it um so i did find him compelling is he is compelling

in charleston hudson character i don't I don't

think he's nearly as sympathetic, perhaps, especially

by the end. Although Heston does blow up the

entire world. So maybe he doesn't do that, I

guess. So there's points for him. But I bought

his growth. I think the one place where I decision,

and this is actually where the director's cut

and the theatrical cut differ. He's given the

choice of, do they kill Governor Brack or let

him live? And I believe in the director's cut,

they kill him. They brutally murder him. In the

theatrical cut, he lets him live. And I didn't

buy that decision because I didn't understand

what would motivate him to show mercy. Because

they've already killed so many people. If anyone,

the person they wouldn't show that to would be

Governor Breck. And I get it. Maybe it was going

a bit too far. I don't know where the next movie

goes. I do know Caesar's in it. So maybe they

thought that would make him... then he can't

follow him as a hero at all I don't know but

I'm sure like that if I'm correct right with

the director's cut like Governor Breck gets killed

is that how it differs in its ending so the director's

cut not only has a few other like graphic scenes

that are not present in the other ones like throughout

but yeah this ending it's not just that they

kill him it's like Caesar's speech like you you're

with caesar in the beginning right like yeah

you're rooting for him and then he starts this

speech and it like keeps going and he keeps taking

it to like a place where you're like um okay

i was with you but are you really meaning what

you're saying and then you're like um but are

you okay you're gonna take it that far um i'm

not quite sure i'm on board what it's like that

meme like are we the baddies it's like does that

where he becomes like oh we're the bad guys in

this it's like oh no it just like keeps going

and like keeps going and keeps going and there

is just nothing good about what's happening and

then like obviously like he lets all of the apes

just like start just annihilating this guy with

their with the ends of their guns and whatever

i mean you don't get to see all of it you just

get to see like them like raising and lowering

and like just yeah and then it's just kind of

like over with his big speech that he's just

going to like rain terror on like the human race

forever. And that's like his mission in life

is, and it's just like, Holy cow. Like we, we

just went there and then this was like, kept

going there and then just like, just ended. And

it was like, yeah, I was like trying to catch

my breath. Like what just, what just happened

to Caesar? Like Caesar's gone off the rails.

Um, and yeah, I guess there was also an opening

that wasn't in the unrated cut, but there's also.

an alternate that exists in the screenplay and

in the comic book and in other stuff where they

show like one of the apes right off the bat get

uh shot and you get to see like all of his welts

and bruises and which kind of like shows the

abuse which is kind of setting up mcdonald's

take on some of the characters and whatnot so

they that's not in the final movie either version

but yeah it was just like and so so then i went

back and i watched the theatrical version which

clearly the unedited version got shown to people

at screenings and did not go well and they're

like wow we may have gone too far we may have

pushed the envelope too far let's like redo some

of that and after knowing that and after seeing

the unedited version and then watching the theatrical

version they can call it like editing tricks

if they want it was pretty bad editing like yeah

you get you keep getting these like close -ups

of caesar's eyes because they don't want to show

the rest it was so obvious that it was like bad

adr like it's like this has clearly been like

i didn't you know it was like it was pretty bad

yeah it was very clear that they were like doing

something as cheap as they could to like redo

it without showing it like they weren't bringing

anybody back for any reshoots they're just like

we got the footage we'll just close in on his

eyes half the time when we can't make his mouth

say the right words. And then we'll just go from

there. So it was either version is jarring. Like,

I don't know if I'm a huge fan of the last couple

of minutes of this film, regardless of which

version you watch, but the unedited one definitely

doesn't leave you with any semblance of like,

uh, feel good. there's no feel good vibes coming

out of this film at the end for sure this is

one where you walk out of the theater and nobody

speaks to anybody for like 10 minutes at least

and then you're like see and then you like go

out like you can grab some food somewhere like

a diner or like some i don't know the diner still

exists you go somewhere like that and then like

you're sitting around and like you're still not

talking to each other and then like you're halfway

through your sandwich and you've made eye contact

with whoever you're with a couple times and you're

like too early is it too soon like should i that

was a bit much huh like so that happened huh

you're right someone's like someone's like what

what type of dressing you want in your salad

and this is like caesar like uh too soon no it's

like you can't can't can't be caesar can't be

anything red they at one point like the i don't

know like the blood in the 70s was was hilarious

uh i will say yeah like i said it shows its age

it shows it's uh a lot but yeah i was curious

what your take is on this general or this governor

brack who definitely does it has come up and

i guess in this version or or basically uh i

guess the other difference is in like the one

version he's more like i don't care what you

do and then the other version he's a they they

frame it a little bit more like he's pleading

for his life i don't know if that really has

much like doesn't really impact me one way or

the other but he is like straight like we talked

about like you talk about sometimes people being

like on 11 like this is the mustache twirling

villain here yes he's he's off the charts yeah

yeah as a villain he's pretty like he's pretty

generic he's just he's evil for the sake of evil

like you have no idea like why he's even this

way I mean I guess You get the sense, because

he's concerned that the apes are going to destroy

the universe or whatever it is. Very forgettable

villain. And I don't even think the performance

is particularly strong. It's not even captivating

in any way. I feel like sometimes he forgot that

he was on a movie and not a stage. I was like,

are you trying to play for the person in the

back row? Because there is no back row in film.

When they're starting to cut into the door. their

bunker or whatever you want to call it. They're

doing the thing with the lightsaber where they're

going to cut a hole in it first. I don't remember

what he screams, but he's basically screaming

that they're not supposed to have the intelligence

to do that yet. It's just real bad. That's right

before they executed the female ape and all the

other people at point -blank range. Then he hands

somebody else the gun. I don't know. I agree.

I think it was pretty bad on a lot of different

levels. wasn't the biggest the biggest fan of

his performance or the character like it's just

generic is the word that kind of comes to mind

in every way shape and form when it comes to

him yeah so i think like him and like some of

that some of that part's rough to take i think

it's definitely like a little gloom and doom

for me i do like the the seeds that we get connect

this to the modern series i do like the fact

that we're dealing with like some concepts that

are important to talk about whether it be civil

rights or the different things they've tackled

like it definitely speaks to what we liked out

of the first one so like those are the things

i liked about it um where do you put this one

so far i know we usually save that for the end

but i'm kind of curious as we go through for

me like the first one's the best so far second

one's the worst and then it kind of comes down

to the the third and the fourth one i think i

would put the third one slightly ahead of this

one yeah i i think so too because when i think

like you said the third one is a bit more it

offers more it gives you a bit more this is this

is one speed it does it fine uh where i think

and like i said it the and then basically it's

like hey look at this is what slavery was like

that was you know basically the social message

there there i think with the um the third film

there is more to it than just that because the

idea of like humanity and what what does it mean

what like is it wrong for us to judge these apes

for what they did to humans because they were

humans when we do the same thing to apes now

and like i think there was a bit more there to

chew on this more intriguing Yeah. And there

was funnier moments. It was, it was more of a

good time. Like you said, there was certain things

you could go if you're having a conversation

afterwards and be like, Hey, that was, that was

actually funny. It does end in a very bleak manner

where like, that's the other thing too. I think

I would have a bit more for it being to have

more conviction to go with that director's cut.

Cause it would stick to what this franchise was

rather than the way it ended. It felt very like

counterintuitive to everything that film was.

beforehand as well as like what the franchise

has been where that wasn't the case for the previous

film so it's much better than the second film

but it's still i think a pretty distant third

i guess for me yeah i think so as well i kind

of i think we're in lockstep with that so my

question now dan is uh obviously you know caesar

is going to exist at least in some way shape

or form in the fifth one which is the battle

of the planet of the apes so Two different questions,

I guess, but you can answer it either way you

want to go. But what do you think we're going

to get with the fifth one? Or what are you hoping

that we get with the fifth one? Well, they make

a mention, you know, saying like, hey, this isn't

going to work in doing this isn't going to work

everywhere in the world. My guess is you have

a city that's controlled by apes. And then you

have the rest of the humans going back into like

repercussions of that to try to retake the city

or ever. maybe that's what it is I really don't

know but that's my guess just because that's

what they hinted at because right now it is isolated

to this one city so what does that mean for like

does the rest of the world say like oh that's

bad for them so that's my guess is maybe like

it's the humans trying to take it back and maybe

that leads to dire consequences or whatever so

I don't know what I hope happens I hope We get

a bit more from Caesar as a character. Cause

like, you know, what, what, where, where does

it pick up from? You know, is it the Caesar from

the director's cut or is it the Caesar from the,

I'm guessing theatrical. And do we get a bit

more dimension to him? Does he fear, do we see

any guilt? Do we see any type of concern like,

or heavy is the head, you know, heavy is the

head that wears the crown. Do we see that, that

play out? I'd be curious to see that take place

to see him deal with, you know, What happens

if he doesn't go far enough and the apes underneath

him think he needs to do more? I don't know.

There's some interesting takes to go on, but

I don't know what the overall review of it is.

Is it seen as good or bad? I don't know. So I'm

really intrigued to see where it goes. All right.

It's directed by the same person that directed

Conquest. I'll tell you that much. um and i i

can't wait to hear your take on what happens

with the fifth one now i'm wondering like what

is it like another time travel or does it end

up bringing entire like different genres or something

does it come like a horror film and there's ghosts

i don't know but i can't wait i can't wait to

hear your take on this one and and then dan we

turn our attention to the marky mark version

which i have seen you've seen that one so then

we get to one that we've both seen after this

one actually this next one The two of us have

seen all the rest, except for you haven't seen

the most recent one. Yeah, the most. Kingdom

from 2024. Yeah, Kingdom of the Planet of the

Apes, I think it is. Yeah, that one I have not

seen. But we'll go through the next four then,

having seen them. But it'll be interesting now

to watch those after watching the original. So

I'm just intrigued on how the rest of this, I

guess we'll call it like a mini retrospective

because we're only covering 10 films. like normal

podcast i guess we're not doing extreme stuff

like we do here at cinema geeks but in the meantime

dan uh what else can people be on the lookout

from us uh if they're wanting to check out some

non -planet of the apes material well if you're

a fan of westerns i think we're at the process

of talking about every western that's ever existed

uh so we're you know we've done rio bravo we've

done a bunch of we've just doing classic westerns

at the moment more classic westerns but if you

love westerns from John Wayne to spaghetti westerns

we've been covering all those as well so you

can find those episodes also on Facebook and

some of those social media platforms been putting

things out there as well you can search there

like different games and different like guests

of the movie but we're moving actors with and

replacing them with the comic book characters

to see how well people can figure out who the

actual movie would be so you check that out on

our facebook page if you search uh cinema geeks

movie podcast it should show up for you yeah

and uh dan i just had one question before we

closed out here uh have you been keeping track

at all of uh spider -man's take at the box office

uh i think as we're recording this because you

know recording this a little early by the time

this comes out it probably would have made 11

billion dollars um and so my that would be my

guess so okay yeah i think i think during our

box office i said i don't think it's going to

do very well yeah i don't think i've ever been

more wrong about something in my life so there

you go we live in a weird time now where like

the the superhero films are are much harder to

predict than they used to be once upon a time

that is for sure it used to be like you're marvel

or dc you were making money and now you're either

complete bomb or you're spider -man like i don't

know how to what It's going to make next year's

predictions interesting, I think. It makes me

wonder what Endgame or whatever the next Marvel

movie is going to be. Because I don't think Spider

-Man's in that. So can Marvel... he might be

soon superimposed like they did with this where

they like uh they just zoom in on eyes and they're

like look there's spider -man over there like

why is he doesn't sound like that's what he was

saying but then he just shows up so i love it

i love it so yeah keep tuned for all those things

search us out on the social medias we'll have

more content coming for you soon but for now

that does it for this episode so tune in next

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