Planet of the Apes Retrospective – Battle for the Planet of the Apes

Hi, this is Jim Meskimen, voice of the Blue Genie,

and what geeks are you listening to? I'll tell

you. You're listening to The Cinema Geeks. Always

know what geeks you're listening to. It's very

important. Hello, and welcome to episode 258

of The Cinema Geeks. I am one of your Cinema

Geeks optimists, Solo, and joining me as usual

is the comic concierge. Hello, Dan. Hello. Look,

again, another one I'm looking forward to. For

maybe the wrong reasons. But here we go. Yes,

we are jumping back and forth between retrospectives,

which takes us today into more ape discussion.

So specifically, we are rounding out our original

series with our fifth film that we're covering

of the five original ones. And then we'll make

a quick trip to 2001 after this and then into

the modern, I guess you'd call it, series. reboot,

remakes, whatever you want to call them. This

is the last of the originals. It flew by. I don't

know if I'm sad that we're over or not. We'll

have to get into that as we go through this.

I'm definitely interested to see where this one

falls for you. I got to admit, Dan, I asked you

some questions when we were talking about Conquest

towards the end on what you were expecting or

what you were hoping for. I already knew based

on the fact that process of elimination like

going into this i couldn't remember which one

was which and like what happened in all of them

but i knew like i still knew like what what was

going to happen over the course of the five films

and so i was just like sitting back just like

dying inside as i knew what you were gonna be

you know and i wish i could have like this is

one where the video podcast would have been great

like an actual watch along while you were watching

it for the first time because i would have loved

to see a certain section and and what your reaction

was visually when it happens but uh yeah we're

talking about battle of the planet of the apes

uh today from from 1973 but before we get into

all of the fun about it uh dan's gonna lay the

groundwork for us as usual so um pay attention

dan's gonna give you all the facts and then we'll

come back with our reactions to that right after

that Somehow the mutants returned, even though

no one really wanted them to, as this week we

continue a retrospective of Planet of the Apes

with Battle of the Planet of the Apes from 1973,

directed by J. Lee Thompson. The film begins

several years after the events of Conquest. Caesar,

the intelligent ape who led the revolution against

humanity, has become the leader of a growing

ape civilization. He lives with his wife Lisa

and their young son Cornelius in what remains

of a devastated American city. Although apes

now are the dominant society, Caesar wants to

avoid repeating the cycle of oppression that

originally led to the ape uprising. Humans and

apes are attempting to live together, but there

is considerable distrust between both of the

groups. Caesar becomes interested in learning

about his past. He discovers that his parents

Zira and Cornelius, the apes from the original

Planet of the Apes, left behind recordings describing

their past experiences, which were also the future.

Caesar hopes that understanding his past will

help prevent the future shown in those recordings,

where apes eventually enslave humans and humanity

is destroyed along with the planet. Meanwhile,

tensions are growing with Caesar's society. A

group of humans resent the ape rule, while some

apes believe humans can never be trusted. Caesar's

chief rival, Aldo, a powerful gorilla who represents

a more aggressive faction of apes, Aldo believes

apes should rule humans rather than treat them

as equal. Caesar, MacDonald, and the regnitane

Virgil travel to the ruins of the Old City in

search of those past recordings. It is revealed

that mutated and radiated scarred humans are

living within the city. under the command of

General Culp, the man who once captured Caesar.

They eventually find the recordings which reveal

what happened to Zira and Cornelius and provide

Caesar with a warning about the future. Recordings

also reinforce Caesar's belief that the relationship

between humans and apes does not have to follow

a predetermined path he has been fearing. Culp

learns about Ape City from his scouts and the

war, believing that Caesar is also on the warpath.

At the same time, Aldo plans a coup, trying to

take control. Cornelius hears about this, but

before he can warn anyone, is critically injured

by Aldo. Cope's forces eventually attack and

overwhelm Ape City. Caesar orders the defences

to fall back. Culp finds Caesar lying on the

ground with dozens of dead apes and indicates

he plans to finally kill Caesar, but they're

really faking it and launch a counterattack and

overwhelm the humans. They try to escape, but

are eventually slaughtered by Aldo's troops once

they're out in the open. Caesar and Aldo finally

have their confrontation on top of the very tree

Cornelius was hurt on and eventually killed.

MacDonald reveals Aldo's role in Cornelius' death.

Enraged with Aldo for breaking the most sacred

law, ape shall never kill ape, all the apes begin

to angrily approach Aldo. Caesar pursues him

up the large tree, their confrontation resulting

in Aldo falling to his death. The scene returns

to the lawgiver, saying it is now over 600 years

since Caesar's death. Its audience is revealed

to be a group of young humans and apes, the lawgiver

noting that their society still wants a day where

the world no longer needs weapons. While they

wait for hope, a close -up of a statue of Caesar

shows a single tear falling from the eye. Director

J. Lee Thompson, who directed Conquest of the

Planet of the Apes, returned for this battle,

but he reportedly agreed to direct before there

was even a film. screenplay. He did have some

frustration feeling like it never had the budget

it needed for battle to feel like battle. It

reportedly only had a budget around 1 .8 million

dollars. Original series writer Paul Dean also

kind of returned. He wrote the story direction

for the previous films and did have the general

story here but couldn't save for the entire story

creation due to illness. Instead screenwriters

John William Cornington and Joyce Hooper Cornington

were brought in to write the screenplay but according

to her accounts they never actually watched any

of the Apes films before. No word on if that

changed after this was made. Production designer

William Kreber had to come up with a visual style

for the new Ape Society that would distinguish

itself from the technology -advanced civilization

of the earlier series. He looked at unusual historical

architecture for inspiration, including a cave

city carved into the mountains of Turkey. The

resulting design helped give the Ape settlement

a rough, post -apocalyptic type of appearance.

Because of the extremely low budget, filmmakers

made extensive use of existing sets, props, costumes,

footage, and locations from the earlier films.

The reception was mostly negative, and the movie

was generally regarded as the weakest of the

original film series. Despite the low ratings,

though, it was a financial success, kind of.

It made $8 .8 million at the box office, so with

its low budget, it did have a profit. But what

do Kevin and I think? Back to us to discuss.

all right thank you for that dan and one thing

that we've always uh seem to ask ourselves dan

as we've made our way through all of these is

where do you go next how do you come back from

this film you know we blew up the world we uh

seem to have somewhat definite endings of multiple

times but because of the science fiction nature

of it you know you can do time travel and you

can do all this kind of stuff and And then we

started to see like little seeds and kind of

some ideas that we know carry on into the modern

series. And then we were headed into this fifth

film after Conquest, which was kind of a very

dark and not so hopeful look as Caesar is unleashing

all hell on the humans. And depending on which

version you're watching, you know, having people

killed and whatnot. And it just didn't seem like

it was going anywhere very like bright and cheery.

And I asked you at the end of the last one, you

know, kind of what you were expecting and what

you were hoping for. So Dan, were you expecting

or were you hoping for the return of the mutants?

Ah, what is the answer to that? And it would

be, it's like, how do you make those mutants

less interesting? And they accomplished that.

So there you go. So my real question, Dan, did

the original ape series end? with a meaningful

statement about whether humans and apes can break

the cycle of violence, or did it simply run out

of money and ideas before it got there? Let's

go actually maybe for a little bit of both. It

definitely ran out. I don't know. Can you run

out of something you don't have? That's the question,

because I don't know if it had much money to

begin with. This is clearly made over with leftovers

from everything, probably including a closed

-down school because there's just a school bus

that they used, and it's just a school bus. It's

got nothing. It's not tricked out. It's not got

any weapons on it. It's just them on a school

bus. It made the original Mad Max look like it

was fantastic. I mean, not that it's not. Yeah.

But this was... Here's the thing. When you have

battle in your title, that's in the title of

your movie, you're putting a lot of emphasis

on there being a battle. And technically, technically,

there was a battle. Skirmish would probably be

a better description of it than actual battle

because... I'm not a person that usually picks

things apart because I don't like plot holes

and things like that. But there are plenty that

just like as a franchise, within a film, within

reality that I wonder about. I feel bad for the

people who made it because it's clearly like

they are trying their best. They're like clearly

using the limited resources they have to put

this all together. And maybe this is probably

the best thing they could have put together.

But like it is, you know. when you have a movie

that is about apes fighting and you don't have

a huge budget to do it, this is what you get.

And not so good. And so many different ways.

Right. So, um, yeah, this is a disappointing

finale. Like, yeah, the, the question is, is

it disappointing just because it's a bad movie

or was it just a product of, being written into

a corner and running out of money and there was

just nothing else they could do like i i mean

i think i yeah i think one you don't have a lot

of money you you're you didn't write yourself

into a corner didn't really find your a way out

of it very well because it's like here's the

thing the second film you blew up the earth so

it's like that's that that's where you it should

have kind of ended there so you got to figure

out a way like how do we not like how do you

end this in a way that like do you do you just

end it so it's like it continues the cycle because

that would actually i think maybe be in spirit

of what this franchise is because every ending

has been a bit of a downer for a lot of ways

uh but i'm guessing this takes place if we're

looking at time period like compared to where

we're at the third film right when caesar was

born yeah so like you're thinking like 40 years

since then like so there's also flashes to like

hundreds of years into the future too true i'm

thinking of like the bulk like yeah like where

the actual so i'm guessing this is meant to be

like the early 2000s maybe maybe a little later

than that but the fighting has regressed to like

the american revolution style but with mad max

like vehicles and here's a question for you so

you know this is all taking place i'm trying

to like was i'm trying to think of the third

you know what city they were in because they

were in san francisco i don't know so is this

all taking place though at one point wasn't that

they were in new york they were in new york in

the first film in the second film and the third

film i thought they were because they were they

weren't in i don't even remember but i thought

they were in san francisco uh but maybe not maybe

i'm thinking of the other films but Is this all

taking place across the world, or is it just

taking place in this one area? That's the thing

that I feel like this set of five films never

really quite decides. Even the first one, which

is probably pretty clearly the best out of the

five, there's still a very limited scope of the

entire planet. we're getting a very focused look

at like one part and i don't think any of the

films ever like outside of the second one i guess

or not the second one good lord i can't get them

the third film when they're back into like the

past that's the only time where you kind of have

a feel for like the entire world all of the other

ones you're not quite sure if this is 100 taking

over the whole planet if we're just seeing bits

and pieces and something else could be going

on over there over here like i don't think they

do a super great job in a lot of these films

of showing like the how widespread things are

no and it makes sense for the first film because

you're not supposed to know it's earth right

so that makes sense uh and i guess kind of the

second one perhaps but then you introduce the

idea there are humans still alive and i know

in rod sterling's earth like first script like

the one that he really wanted to make that was

more like in taking place and like current time

and things like that it was the same it was across

the world that was that was the idea behind it

but within this it's hard to really tell because

it's like who dropped that bomb on the city and

like what was the purpose of that like what was

the what are they trying to accomplish exactly

and there's like that's and then how do all these

apes know how to talk now like how did that like

when did that happen like how did that occur

i know i know at the end of the last one you

had the one ape that did say no and i guess the

idea is that because they became pets this takes

40 years man and and they were just around humans

they learned how to or 30 years i don't know

however long it was it was probably not even

40 it was probably 20 or 30 i don't know a couple

decades the whole species apparently oh yeah

do you think they were do you think they were

so sidetracked with this notion that they had

to connect it back to the first one or the second

one like they had to make did you feel like they

were so obsessed with like trying to connect

all those dots that they kind of just like i

think so i think it got because they had they're

keeping the same actors like you know i think

they're thinking oh we got to keep the same people

to keep the same story going we can't just enter

into a new era. People want to see the adventures

of Caesar and like in Rodney McDowell, I guess

that's where our money is. I think, I think they

were, because I think it may have been, if we

got a story where, I don't know, like if you

can kind of combine the last two movies and then

maybe this one was more so in that future that

we see, that could have been a bit more intriguing.

But yeah, I think it was trying to complete that

circle. So like, or in a way in this, it's not

a circle since it's supposed to lead to a different

future. Right. But I think I would have been

fine if they would have, if maybe there could

have been some interesting stuff, if you would

have just been trying to connect back to the

first one, like if you were just trying to set

up the idea that the apes were now in control

and the humans were, you know, in the plight

that they were, and we kind of show like the

humans, like gradually losing humanity and. intelligence

and stuff like that like maybe there was something

and you could have seen like the formation of

the different the orangutans versus the chimpanzees

versus the gorillas or you know that type of

thing i think that was maybe somewhere you could

have like mined something interesting from i

don't think the way to go was to connect it back

to the second movie with the mutant humans worshiping

the nuclear bomb like no i don't know if that

was the best idea in the world um so trying to

get some silver linings dan um because there

we could spend a whole lot of time probably you

know crapping all over this film and i don't

think that serves too much of a purpose like

it kind of is what it is but was there enough

of some traces of what we know we're going to

get in the modern series that you could see some

aspects that you were like well i can i can kind

of connect these dots to what we get you know

in the 2000s and whatnot and you know i can kind

of see some of the caesar stuff and the ape shall

never kill ape and and all of this like was some

of that stuff interesting or intriguing or do

you feel like it was just hey i know all this

stuff will come back and be done much better

later i think you see some of the apes becoming

just as bad as the humans like i think we see

some of that within the the other the new films

where the we begin to see that conflict within

the apes themselves like caesar trying to hold

control and other apes challenging him because

they don't think he's strong enough or goes far

enough and that clearly was happening here you

know where he had to usurp controls like are

apes actually better than humans is it is it

is are they just as um capable of doing the evils

humans are doing and they just haven't had the

opportunity yet so i think we see some of that

here for sure uh with of course the amazing performance

by claude atkins as general aldo and i didn't

realize like the general title was like probably

something he gave himself which is kind of funny

but yeah i do think you see some of those those

pieces that we would see further develop later

down and honestly done better not to spoil those

movies but yeah so i think you see that and i

think you too like it made me think back to like

the the first planet of the apes as well when

we learned about like who made the laws and things

like that and seeing a lot of that being built

here too like that those ideas of ape should

not kill ape and but also i do think the idea

of like the future isn't set and you can set

your own destiny i like i like that idea i just

don't know if how they got there was perhaps

the best way to do it. What did you think of

bringing back another member of the McDonald

family into this one and trying to tie a piece

of connection from the fourth film to the fifth

film? The two brothers? Yeah, I don't... I don't...

That was an interesting choice, I guess. I don't...

At first I was confused. I was like, is this

supposed to be the same character? Because it's

clearly a different actor. But... And I know

we jumped in the future, but this guy has the

same name until I realized at one point they

call him his brother or something like that or

some relative. And I'm like, what? That was confusing.

I thought it was supposed to be the same character

at first, but I guess that's not the case. So

that was a bit confusing. And also, I thought

they were trying to have Severn Darden, the guy

who played the governor in this. Are they trying

to act like he's the same governor as before?

Because they kept calling him governor again.

Hey, no, they legit said, no, they say something

in the film that he's, I swear that they say

that he's related to him too. Maybe. I don't,

it was hard to tell with, it was like, really?

Yeah. I'm still taking his father or his like

grandfather or something. Like I was like, we're

just trying to make connections everywhere. Don't

understand what's happening here. I don't know

about their, their, their method or their, their

logic behind the, the, the armory. I don't know

if this was well thought out, how they're keeping

all the guns protected. No. I mean, I guess the

idea is that, you know, maybe Caesar is concerned

about the apes. Like, again, going bad is just

a human, so keeping that out of their hands,

I'm not sure. I think they could have fortified

it a little better, I guess, is what my point

was. I mean, they could have fortified it in

many things much better than they did. So I somehow...

didn't realize there was two cuts of this one

as well oh i don't i don't i watched i hope i

watched the shorter one i just know that there

is an extended cut and that is definitely the

version that i was watching because i decided

that it was such a good idea in the fourth film

that when my my blu -ray popped up and it said

do you want to watch the theatrical or extended

i i just couldn't stop myself so i hit the extended

sequence and i don't know does your version so

in in in my version there's a deleted scene that's

shown at the end where mendez who is one of the

guys back at the base of the mutants has become

like the new governor now and he talks the other

mutant out of firing the atomic missile and then

they discover that it is the alpha omega bomb

from beneath the planet it's like no oh that

i did not see that and that's that's amazing

so that's in the deleted scene there's like two

deleted scenes that are in there um and then

there's like just longer sequences like there's

six more minutes of battle in the extended cut

because you needed that they just reverse certain

shots or like to show the same shots over and

over again because i love how like yeah it didn't

seem as poorly edited as the the edits of the

fourth film like i didn't realize i was watching

parts that weren't in the other one yeah but

i did subject myself to longer paid than i needed

to i mean i i appreciate the sacrifice because

that's you know i mean the film did make money

dan like it's easy to do when it costs nothing

but yeah the budget according to the online is

1 .7 million and it made 8 .8 so and that clearly

went to like guessing catering a lot can we can

we just wait a second and talk about how john

houston is in this and he plays an ape like how's

like that's insane to me like i saw that i'm

like so here's the thing dan he's the person

that shows up at the beginning of every blu -ray

oh really yes and in that character i think it

was maybe it's not john the his character i don't

know if it's played by john houston and all of

those but the lawgiver shows up at the beginning

of every one of the blu -rays and asks if you

want to begin with like the lawgiver introduction

to the film or not which i bypassed every time

so i was i guess in that instance not willing

to like watch the extra stuff yeah but does make

me uh think of what did you think of this 600

years later commentary with this lawgiver and

then they're at one point showing like a society

that does have children and ape children that

are being taught and then dan i have to get your

opinion of what could only be described as the

greatest final shot of a film ever made a close

-up of a statue with a single tear which doesn't

again like i don't even understand what that's

supposed to mean is like in i hate saying that

but it's like is it is it a happy tear because

it's like it's look at they can live together

because they're there it's it's trying to end

on a on a hopeful note right and it's like showing

them together and it's showing that like there's

hope so why isn't the statue crying if a statue

could cry which It's like, it's like when they,

people see like a religious figure in their toast

or whatever. So it's like, what is this? It was

maybe the worst final shot of a film I've ever

seen in my life. Also, you have the great opportunity

to give us like a human hate ape hybrid to just

to show you, you know what I mean? Like, like

going to give us that right. Like clearly didn't

have the budget. I didn't know what that would

look like. It probably would be. scary or whatever

because you gotta think 600 years into the future

supposed to be is that showing us stuff that

happens before the first my timeline is so confusing

i'm thinking my thought process is that it's

saying that okay they they fix the future so

it's a new future it's a new future it's a new

because they they brought that up you know regarding

like how you can you can do that and whatnot

but uh happy ending yeah it was quite it was

a quite although it ended yeah but he's crying

because it's so i mean maybe he's crying because

he watched this movie how far this franchise

has fallen so so dan we weren't very friendly

about the second film beneath the planet of the

apes was there enough in beneath that you would

put it ahead of battle i feel like the first

third of it at least i feel like that's a tough

question because or are they both on equal footing

they're very it's close because i feel like yeah

like battle it's i mean it's the budget that

kills it like i go to these things called i go

to every year i go to a thing called world war

ii weekend not every year but a lot of times

and they do like reenactments right and you know

they're like they're they're people who clearly

you know they're just normal people doing this

on the weekend so you can imagine like how it's

not very cinematic right you know it is what

it is those To me, and they even have, like,

vehicles. I don't know. Apparently people just

own tanks, which is weird, but whatever. So,

but, like, those had a bigger budget than this

entire movie. And so it just, so I'm, like, I'm

trying to give it, like, you know, grade it on

a curve a little bit because it's, like, they're

doing the best they can with. But also it just,

there's, like, no, the story here is just so

kind of. stupid like we're gonna go into we gotta

go into this city to get these videos of seeing

my like the you know my dad and whatnot and like

them talking which i feel like he saw or they

showed in the last film so i don't know but also

it doesn't seem like this like this this super

great revelation that he learned while he was

there that made it worth it No, it seemed like

the opposite of the revelation he would want.

I don't know. Everything with the human mutants

is right out of the Walmart dollar bin. Yeah.

It's Mr. Science Theater pad. When you see them

walking in that field and it's this huge army

going into another, it's so sad. Like I said,

there's just a school bus there. Maybe someone

was a school bus driver on the weekend or whatever,

so they just... borrowed that and they and you

can definitely tell that they're reusing the

same explosion like just through multiple angles

a lot and oh man it's just it's just kind of

dull and boring uh but i guess i appreciate them

kind of going for it in a way i don't know it's

just i do know one thing in the original series

it is not good to be a young ape no like we have

already seen young apes and baby apes get murdered

and killed like multiple times like i don't understand

a lot of ape death yeah i i will say i'll give

it credit it did get me with the fight like apes

moment in the sense of like i'm like oh wow they're

they've really been defeated that seems kind

of and then they were actually just playing dead

like that i'll get them give them credit for

that that got me uh because it was their acting

in general is just as good as that so it's to

tell that they were acting that they were acting

but uh yeah i can't wait till the final rankings

of our planet at the age retrospective to see

exactly where you land with the second one it's

tough thinking which one's worse i get like i

i think that the second one's just dumber this

one just i feel like it just has nothing to it

it's so like it's so hollow feel right now. Like

the second and fifth one are easily at the bottom.

The first and the third one are easily the two

top ones. And then like the fourth one is just

like somewhere in the middle. Yeah. But yeah,

definitely. I think again, it's, it's hard to

say. Cause there's this, it's just a bad movie

and it's not even like fun bad. I think maybe,

maybe it would be fun if like you just, cause

it gets a little, like if you watch it, like

mystery science theater, 2000 bad. Cause just,

and some of this how bad some of the like the

masks have gotten like they're not even trying

like those it's like uh you know especially general

aldo like his face never looks like it's you

know this is the worst it's and i was trying

to understand he also felt like is he supposed

to be a bumbling idiot because it kind of like

that you get that sense but he never feels threatening

at all it's also funny that an ape dying from

falling from a tree just like yeah But, like,

even some of the stuff that they were really

paying attention to in, like, some of the other

films, like, think back to the first one and,

like, how much they were, like, really conscious

of, like, how the apes were moving, what they

were doing with their hands and legs and, like,

how they all, like, worked and how they positioned

their bodies. Like, it is so inconsistent by

this point that you just don't get any of that,

like, attention to detail. It's just gone off

the rails. And it doesn't really ask, you know,

like... There's so many great conversations in

some of the other ones, some interesting thoughts,

and there's nothing here. It is just kind of

a generic action film, and not even good at that.

No. I mean, it's trying to get, like, can they

coexist, or are the apes going to be just as

evil and stuff like that, but you can't get there

when you're trying to get through the muck that

it serves it in. Exactly. that's that's how we

end our our first series of five films dan unfortunately

not on the greatest of notes but i am glad now

that you've seen them all and you've seen that

they're up and down and some of the crazy stuff

that that happens and you know on a first time

watch you do get some interesting things as far

as like well what happens when you blow up the

world and where do you go from here and where

did we come up with the idea to include human

mutants and or mutant humans and why do we just

go back to that idea yeah you know there's lots

of just different stuff here and then obviously

you do get a few seeds with caesar and and whatnot

that will will come to talk about a lot obviously

in the more modern series but turning the page

from i will i do want to get your thoughts on

the original five overall and then in conjunction

with that turning the page to the 2001 tim burton

film with mark walberg um remind everybody what

your experience from that one is and kind of

put a bow on the original five for me i saw i

saw that in theaters actually you know i don't

know why but i did i think because it was it

was like bill does like the big movie that one

of the big movies that summer and that was like

in time when like if a movie came out i was going

to it type of thing so i did see i don't think

i've seen it since then though so it's been it's

been a while but yeah how about yeah i'm guessing

you have seen it because you went through all

these so clearly you've seen it before it was

one that i did not see when it came out though

I did not see this in 2001. I, again, was not.

I just had like a weird aversion to Planet of

the Apes, I guess, when I was in middle school,

high school, etc. And I just didn't think they

were serious enough for my time. So it wasn't

until, you know, the 2015 one. You started with

this one, which was probably the problem. It's

like that. That's a franchise not worth my time.

No, so back when the original of the modern one

came out, or the first one of the modern, I went

back and re -watched the five that we just covered

and watched this for the first time. I think

it was the second or third watch for Amanda,

but it was the first time I had seen it. So I

just kind of did what we're doing now and kind

of went straight through until modern times.

So I saw it, but it was about 15 years ago or

so. What about your final thoughts on kind of

the original five? i'm glad we watched these

like for sure and like you said the second film

and this film clearly you know not great although

like it's been fun talking about them so that

that that's a help you know we get to enjoy the

pain together but And also I think it helps put

in context when people talk about sequels or

franchises, we end up, we try to act like this

is something new for films, but realizing like

it really isn't. It's just that a lot of this

stuff tends to be forgotten. Yeah. So that I

think that's been helpful, but also I I'm glad

I, it helps me with some of the newer films and

understanding some of the. kind of callbacks

to things like i didn't have before so now i'm

really excited to watch those again with that

knowledge to see if i'll like those even more

or kind of understand like what certain things

meant and then for the one coming up like i said

i watched it but i wonder you know it's it's

got you know a notion for being really really

bad and i think a lot of that has to do with

the ending which won't spoil here, but, and I'm

curious, is it that bad? Is it, is it, you know,

after watching this, you know, clearly you had

a much bigger budget, but is it that bad? Is

it overhated? I'm, I am interested to go back

and see it and, you know, with fresh eyes and

see how, we'll see what I think. We go from a

$1 million budget, Dan, to a $100 million budget.

So, yeah. And that $100 million that, or whatever,

$99 million. gave it a 0 .3 more higher score

on IMDb. So, you know, this is 5 .4. That 2001

is 5 .7. Again, like not IMDb scores or whatever

they are, but it's just interesting to see. For

Rotten Tomatoes, we're going from a 33 % to a

42 or something. All right. So we're going up.

33 to 42. I don't know. Rotten Tomatoes says

it's going to be better. so we'll see all right

if you want to give your commentary on any of

our planet of the apes conversation you can reach

out to us on the social medias you can search

me out at optimist solo you can search dan out

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be able to find it and dan has been posting a

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and get to see different things that we're doing.

So that's the best way to interact with us. And

if you comment on anything, I promise Dan or

myself will definitely respond to you. So, all

right. So that does it for this episode. Tune

in next time for another chance to listen to

more of The Cinema Geeks.