Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders and Batman: The Killing Joke Review

This is Kevin Conway, and I am the goddamn Batman.

to be a superhero, but he ain't that. He's a

regular guy and kind of a jerk from time to time,

which is really fun to play. Hello and welcome

to Legends of the Brave and the Bold. I'm your

host, Steve Megatron Phillips. And joining me

as always on this podcast is TFU and Mike. Hello

hello, and it's been a while. It's been a while

technically We have not become brave and bold

yet. We are still dark knight But yes legends

of the brave and bold legends of the dark knight.

We are back. We are here The next episode you'll

hear episode 41 or whatever the hell Is our talk

on the Batman season 1? We recorded that over

a year ago at this point, but oh well. Was it

that long ago? Yeah, it's something. We never

released it? Nope, because I was waiting for

these scores and then life happened. Life just

kind of exploded. Man, we're jerks. Yeah, we're

real jerks. We've been holding out on these people.

Yes, we have. Well, it's not like they give us

any iTunes reviews or anything else. I mean,

some have and we very much appreciate those that

have, but others not so much. Just because you're

silent listeners doesn't mean you can't record,

you know, just write a simple, simple review.

Uh, let me see here. LOTDK 41. That was record,

yeah, well, hmm. It was ages ago. It was how?

Okay, wait, what? What? It says it was created

Saturday, May 27th, 2017. But it says it was

modified Tuesday, October 4th, 2016. I have no

idea when the hell we did the Batman Season 1.

I could have sworn it was before I went to California

last year. Anyway. I think you like to time travel.

Yeah. I prefer DeLorean's over police boxes.

Thank you very much. But we're here to do a compare

and contrast for two very different Batman films.

We're going to be talking about Batman Return

of the Cape Crusaders and then after that we're

going to be talking about Batman the Killing

Joke. At the end we will talk about the scores

for each of these films brought to you by La

Land Records. Head on over to lalandrecords .com

where soundtracks live. Where do they live? At

La Land Records. They live in La Land. Exactly.

Exactly. So yeah, Batman Return of the Cape Crusaders.

Thomas Lennon as Chief Miles O 'Hara, Lynn Marie

Stewart as Aunt Harriet Cooper, and Serena Irwin

as Miranda Moore and other Catwoman as well.

It says... I was very skeptical about this. I

was excited, but I was skeptical when I heard

the news that this was going to be a thing. Especially

at the time, because... All of those original

actors are were were and are getting up there

in age and Adam West's voice has never really

faltered over his never aged. He's always had

that. Yeah, I love Robin. Yeah, let's get to

the Batcave Yep, absolutely and then Bert Ward

has a little bit but it's not enough to make

it make a big of a difference Yeah, no, not at

all And others that were on the original series

obviously some have passed Since this but return

of the Cape Crusaders I Thought it was okay up

to a certain point and then I felt the plot just

kind of went Like it like somebody stole the

Batmobile without its wheel or something and

just decided to go joyriding because this movie

is in my personal opinion Longer than it should

be it is longer than it should be I will agree

with you on that And they did drag some of the

hoaxiness out However, I will say that it is

a much welcome addition. Mm -hmm basically showing

what would happen if the Adam West Batman were

evil mm -hmm and showing us Just how dark the

it and in what way that series would go Yeah,

it went that direction so I Really I really enjoyed

what they did with it And and the ability to

kind of keep as close to the original Continuity.

Yeah as possible. Did you feel at all that you

were watching six different episodes of the TV

series? Not necessarily just six up but like

various episodes because Every so often I felt

like oh this should be a stopping point like

a to be continued or next week on Batman or tomorrow

on Batman like it felt like I would have thought

it really humorous if they did do that yeah To

kind of break it up a little bit. Yeah, like

I'll like Batman ever get recovered Yeah, will

at at Harriet ever get to go back in the Wayne

Manor, you know? yeah will the joker have the

last laugh yes um it just felt like this should

have like don't get me wrong i enjoyed it for

what it is i like the campiness and the hokiness

of what it is because of what it's supposed to

be i have no problem with that because i know

that's what it's supposed to be however i wish

it was more of What Gotham Knight was? Gotham

Knight was specifically the the original DC you

movie from X number years ago 2008 I think it

was horrid. I know I I know that movie was horrid.

Yes, you're right It was what I'm saying is I

wit that movie was six different vignettes or

four, it was four different things, or six different,

it was six different stories in one, it made

up one film. That's what I think this should

have been. You could still have this story, but

just have those to be continued, or this, that,

and the other thing, or whatever, because as

it is, this movie is too bat damn long. It just

really is. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it too. And

I honestly didn't have the big of an issue with

it. There are some other animated films that

were too long that had no reason to be that long.

Very true. How do we want to summarize the plot

for this thing? Because there's a lot here to

summarize. Villains come together as a almost

-got -em -type scenario. They end up... Getting

him and it doesn't go quite as planned No, not

at all and then it's kind of in every man for

himself and You have the triple catwoman which

was Actually really funny. It was a nice nod

to the fact that there was that was that was

a yeah, that was just Beautiful writing. Absolutely.

To kind of tie up that loose end of why there's

three. Yep. It worked out so well. Very much

did. This is a light and bright kind of movie

that kind of gets a little dark when Batman goes

evil. All of the hoakiness, the campiness is

well done. The writing is done very well. The

music is done well, which we'll talk about later.

I mean... the dynamic music partners and Neil

I will say that they they did a spectacular job

original series I if it weren't for the fact

that I knew that this was a new production yeah

you'd think it was the client was I would think

that I was watching something from way back then

it's just that stinking good very much so absolutely

I did even though I've said that I enjoyed the

campiness and the hookiness of it I cringed it'll

some of the jokes again it felt like we were

watching the 60s show and I'm going so yeah Um,

yeah, just absolutely loved this pretty much.

It was one of those movies where you have the

villains coming together to do a team up. Like

you said, Allah almost got him from BTS, but

they've done that kind of thing in the 60 show

before it's never worked out. Like you look at

Batman the movie from 1966. It's the Joker penguin

and Catwoman I think that's where they kind of

got their inspiration here from Obviously, they

throw the Riddler in and they throw some other

villains. Well, the Riddler was in that movie

Well, that's right. He was dull. It was Riddler

Riddler Joker Catwoman Yeah, okay. That's who

it was. Yeah Yeah You know, so it's fully omaging

that I think Yeah, that that film I definitely

got the the essence of it here the same token

I I was amazed at Like they put a little bit

of a modern twist To the the classic Batman title

Like you can hear it if you're like somebody

who? Is sitting there with this playing and the

original? And the closing as well but they did

it in such a way that it wasn't necessarily an

homage but a a way of getting this whole The

whole Thing to feel more like it's the original

then all of the all of the clips like it didn't

matter what clip I played mm -hmm they were all

fun upbeat like a little bit hokey but I kind

of got like this vibe like they mixed and I know

that they worked on some of this stuff too but

like I got some of like the Batman the animated

series vibes but given the 60s treatment right

if that makes any sense absolutely it does yes

And I was like, man, I feel like I'm right at

home listening to this soundtrack. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Like I said, we will talk about the music

here in a bit. But the movie itself, very well

done. Outside of the main four villains, you

also had people show up like Archer and Black

Widow, Bookworm, Clock King, Egghead, False Face,

King Tut, Louis the Lilac, Mad Hatter, Minstrel.

Mr. Freeze, Sandman, Shame, and Siren. So very

cool throwing in all the old villains from the

series. Yeah, that was probably my favorite part

is the jailbreak and then having these villains

just parading around that I remember from the

original show. So it was really funny. to watch

yep and then i had to cringe at the end because

at the end bruce and dick throw on harriet a

surprise party and because that's the secret

they were keeping from her like even in the 60s

show when i would watch it in rearings in the

80s as a kid i loathed aunt harriet like oh i

despise that character so bad Was like why is

she here? I'm like yeah Bruce Wayne just needs

his aunt to sit there and babysit him. He's in

his 30s Like there was no realistic reason why

she was even present in the Wayne Manor I think

she in the in the old show in the old series

I think it was because she was the aunt be type

on be from like Andy Griffith She was that type

of character they had to have I mean up until

the point that Barbara becomes back girl they

had to have somebody else besides Barbara getting

in trouble with the villains like getting caught

or getting captured or whatever I don't know

I just I didn't much care for that yeah that

part but like Chief Quindy though is is like

our our Bullock yeah Yeah, that's it chief Quimby.

I meant that that's from inspector gadget. Yep

This was I would have loved to have done this

gone to do this for this and the killing joke

This ended up in select cinemas October 10th

of the year that it came out Which is very very

cool. I think it was even out in the cinemas

where I live but due to its release time there

was something else that came up and i could not

make that time to go see it and i was like man

and i think i was going to see it with and i

mean i could be wrong this i may be confusing

this with the dragon ball z movie but uh for

the release but i want to say that it was available

as well in my area so either way i didn't get

to see it until it hit DVD and then the kind

folks at Warner Brothers sent it to me for review

and I... Don't say it. What? Oh, I thought you

were gonna say I never got around to it or something.

No, it was a spectacular disc. Yes. Like how

it was set up and the menu system and the...

because I like looking at the menu and everything

when it comes to the blu -rays and seeing what

features are on it. Absolutely. Yeah, it was

released at New York Comic Con October 6th. It

went wide October 10th of last year. And on that

date, like I said, it had limited release in

various theaters. And again, I think that's really

cool, especially for something like this specifically.

How many people growing up watching Batman or,

you know, people growing up when it was actually

airing on television or even us growing up in

the 80s and 90s watching in reruns, how many

of us could have ever said that we saw any of

it on a, you know, on a big -ass screen? Not

a lot of us. Well, and I remember my initial

introduction to Batman was the 60s show. My mom...

because she grew up with it, she showed it to

me and that was what kind of hooked me on the

character after that. Same here. Although I much

preferred as bad as this is going to sound. I

like Adam West as Animated Batman and all the

Scooby Doo and stuff because that was just so

cool. I mean, I love the 60s show I do I love

the television show but like for me it was all

about Animated Batman whether it was super friends

whether it was could be new stuff. Whatever it

was I absolutely love it We are gonna take a

quick break and then we're gonna come back to

hear from Batman's greatest enemy ever So Batman

the killing joke released July 22nd 2016 in SDCC

wide release in the US July 25th 2016 animated

adaptation of the classic graphic novel first

30 minutes of the movie felt nothing like the

killing joke whatsoever because it wasn't in

the killing joke exactly Exactly and then and

then in blatantly showing Batman boning Batgirl

it was kind of Like you you kind of assumed it

happened behind The scenes. Yeah, you didn't

necessarily need to know what happened Yeah,

or the entire backstory which had nothing to

do with it. They were just like how can we make

this on? characteristically longer than it has

to be. That, and how can we make this so uncharacteristically

awkward than it really has to be? The whole scene,

and I know I'm jumping ahead here, but the whole

scene in the library after the fact of the boning

on the roof, or the batting on the roof, or whatever

the hell you want to call it. The bat in the

belfry. Yeah, there is that too. Like the whole

time she's talking to her I whatever assistant

or whatever the hell this guy is it's like oh

my god I get we get it. You can't tell him that

Bruce Wayne is Batman and blah that you're dating

But whatever like they made her I don't know

that kind of weakened her character by making

her seem yes Extraneously whiny. Yep, pretty

much and there was no reason for it. Nope So

yeah, I was a little a little Peeved with with

how they did that because She's supposed to be

like this strong character and they made her

like super whiny And I was like no no Like why?

Why did you do this to me? So like I know a lot

of people were up in arms about the whole that

sex scene in the movie but it is a rated R animated

film was it rated R or rated R? either one whichever

you'd like yeah it's rated R Joker is a pyrite

uh... no not really um... outside of that because

i know a lot of people are open arms about that

we've seen in other Animated media and things

illusions like take btas or the DCA you for example

there have been illusions that Bruce and Barbara

had a relationship or dated or something and

obviously they never showed any sex scenes with

that or anything else Thank God, but it's just

one of those things where Just because you have

an R rating doesn't mean you need to do a story

bit that ruins characters And while this didn't

necessarily ruin Batgirl's character for me,

I still didn't really care for it. I know why

a lot of people were upset about it, but at the

same time, when the news first broke about it

before the movie even came out, I was like, okay,

well it can't be that bad. Yeah, it's pretty

bad. Because the rest of the movie, the whole...

relationship between the two of them is so damn

awkward let's talk about the Joker shall we because

the story is intercut with the flashbacks of

the Joker's origin it is revealed that he was

once a lab technician who quit his job to become

a stand -up comedian only to fail miserably desperate

to support his pregnant wife Jeannie He agrees

to help two criminals rob his former workplace

The criminals tell him that he has to use the

red hoods mask and caped costume secretly intending

to frame him During the planning of the police

inform him that Jeannie and their unborn child

died in the household accent Any household accent

grief -stricken he tries to withdraw from the

plan but the criminals strong arm him into keeping

his commitment to them Okay, so they don't say

what his name is. Thank God He has a wife, he

has an unborn child, but they died, unfortunately.

Is there anything out of the origin here that

just drives you crazy? I just... I didn't really

care. Like, on the one run regard, because like...

It was just... I find this part to be kind of

cringe -worthy anyway. Just this whole, like...

Begging Joker. I just I don't care for it. Yeah

The only thing that I was really looking forward

to in this film was the recreation of the classic

scene from the graphic novel of Him showing up

at Barbara's door Hawaiian shirt all of that

with the gun and he shoots her Know it's sad

for me to say that I was looking forward to this

but I wanted to make sure they got it right and

Didn't screw it up. Not that I think that they

would have but you never know So they got that

right and obviously by the end of the film It

you know, it shows her turning on the computer

in her wheelchair and the Oracle logo pops up

I Don't really the whole thing of Commissioner

Gordon to getting Just traumatized the whole

yeah, that was a little nuts. I Think it's a

little bit different in in one regard for this

to be in comic form Versus animated right Not

that I didn't like hearing Hamill and Conroy

reprise their roles but I I Felt I Don't know

it was just kind of kind of a creepy Creepy freaking

film and the music played very well to that.

Yes Really quick before we go to the music I'll

say Like you I very much enjoy Hamill and Conroy

in the roles I think they work well off of each

other in the roles. However The is who's the

artist that Brian? Oh, what's his name? Brian

Boland, is that right? The novel I think so,

okay Brian Boland's art style to me does not

fit the Kevin Conroy Batman voice It's like I

said when we did Gotham Knight years and years

and years ago on Tooncast Kevin Conroy's voice

just sometimes doesn't fit the look that the

Batman character is and This is another one of

those times where I just don't think it worked

properly Like I said, it's nice to have You know

that it's here but Yeah, I mean I kind of kind

of feel that too, but I don't know it was I did

like seeing the animated series batmobile return

Yep, it was probably one of my favorite parts.

Absolutely. That was great Yeah, I was right

Brian Boland because it's written by Alan Moore

I was right, but Yeah, that was pretty much the

other only highlight is seeing the animated so

the music the animated series batmobile The one

the scene from the novel being accurate with

the whole shooting of Barbara Gordon Which kind

of really like The way they framed it made it

wrong not not the scene, but the way they frame

the story Where she and Batman are getting busy?

Know in the belfry and all that or as they would

say in the 90s getting jiggy with it. Yeah, where's

Will Smith? He's over there not making any money

or whatever he's playing dead shot Yeah, that's

about the only paycheck he's cashing these days

he getting jiggy with it. Yep No, no. No. Well,

you know the I'm horrible. Yes, you are So the

scene, the whole sex scene thing and then her

getting injured later makes the Batman -Batgirl

relationship even worse afterwards. It just does

not do a good job of it at all. I don't know.

So, before we get to the music, what would you

rate each of these films zero to five stars?

The Cape Crusader I'd give it a four just because

of the the grown factor of some of the jokes

and The Just some of the the fact that it went

on a little bit too long But killing joke I'm

gonna give it a three just because I it's not

what I'll probably ever go back and watch It's

just because of how dark it is. Whereas, Cape

Crusader, I would be more apt to say, hey, let's

try it again. For me, I will give Cape Crusader

about a three and a half. Like you said, a couple

of the jokes are a little too corny, but I did

very much overall enjoy it. It's middle ground,

bordering on really good for me. Killing joke?

The movie itself the plot and all of that not

not counting the music is the music is great

in both of these but not counting the music Just

the plot and the acts just the story. I got to

give the film overall a two The killing joke.

Yes. Yes. Yeah, it was not like I Just finished

watching it before we so I just finished watching

both films again before we started recording

this and The killing joke just left such a horrible

horrible taste in my mouth I don't ever want

to ever watch that movie again the killing joke.

Yes. Yeah, I I Had a very difficult time sitting

through it. Yep Yeah, it was painful So We're

going to take another quick break. We're going

to come back and we're going to analyze the music

from both of these films, both done by Dynamic

Music Partners, which consists of Alitta Romanis,

Christopher Carter, and Michael McQuistion. We'll

be back. This is Matt Verbois from La La Land

Records, and you've entered the La La Land Lounge

on Geekcast Radio. We are back here on Legends

of the Dark, Brave and the Bold, or whatever

you want to call it, nighttime kind of thing,

and we're going to compare and contrast the scores

from La La Land Records of Batman Return of the

Cape Crusaders and Batman The Killing Joke, because

as I've said in this podcast, they are both done

by dynamic music partners. Which, as I've said,

consists of Lolita Romanis, Christopher Carter,

and Michael McQuistion. Very, very cool. We're

gonna start with the dark this time, and then

go into the light, since we started with the

light one into the dark. Uh, Batman and the Killing

Joke. Uh, Well and Records DC and Warner Bros.

Animation present the original score to the DC

Universe original movie, Batman and the Killing

Joke. Composers Michael McQuistion, Christopher

Carter, and Lolita Romanis. Unleash a powerful

emotionally charged score expertly melding synth

and live orchestra players into Harness all the

thrilling action and psychological drama within

this exciting feature -length Retelling of what

is considered by many to be one of the finest

Batman comic stories of all time produced by

Michael McQuistion And mastered by James Nelson,

this special limited edition release also features

the original song, I Go Looney, performed by

the joker himself, Mark Hamill. Writer John Takas

takes you behind the score with exclusive in

-depth liner notes featuring interview comments

from the composers. And the Gotham infused art

design is done by Dan Colewasser. This is a limited

edition of 1500 units. So yeah, 35 tracks. I

love the score. Know you said the film is really

really dark and you're kind of tired of the dark

dark dark Batman stuff, but damn This score is

amazing. Oh, I never said that I know I know

fine from yeah without having to actually see

the movie Not saying because I did see the movie

but obviously we wouldn't be here if you had

yeah, obviously So Yeah, the score itself is

just... You definitely get that dark vibe from

it. And some of the more somber, calm moments

where Joker, pre -Joker is kind of going through

problems. and having to deal with it and kind

of making you feel for him. So I mean, everything

is kind of playing on the emotional level on

even the music, but you don't necessarily have

to see the graphic things happen on the screen.

Yeah, absolutely. I actually listened to the

score before I watched the movie. Sometimes I

need to watch the movie to hear the music within

the film, how it plays in the scope of the story.

This I did not, because I knew immediately how

they were going to be scoring this. And I just

love it. the three of them do such amazing amazing

work and everything they do is so very different

and specific from anything else they've done

like just so diverse and so interesting and while

this is a darker batman score on the opposite

end you have the same people doing return of

the cave crusader which is very light and fun

and upbeat and you know it's like the whole kitten

caboodle simply amazing um what i find so interesting

in comparing and contrasting these scores is

just how much of a instrumental each part plays

on each of like how instrumental the different

tones are. Like obviously a really dark movie

is going to get a really dark score. Obviously

a really light movie is going to get a really

light score. And there are serious moments in

Return of the Cape Crusaders. There are serious

tones in that music. But they're not dark at

all. I think the darkest they get in Return of

the Cape Crusaders score is when we find out

Batman's evil. So... There's that The thing with

the killing joke the coolest thing for the score

besides the actual score itself is they included

a track As I said before by none other than Mark

Hamill I go loony What did you think of the Joker's

singing I go loony? I really enjoyed it Mark

Hamill always is a treat in any in any way that

he shows up. Absolutely. Absolutely. I remember

when this came out for preview or review or whatever,

Warner Brothers basically told LoLand Records,

hey look, the Mark Hamiltrack is kind of like

a bonus thing. We don't want people really playing

it or putting it out online. And of course, people

are still gonna be morons and do that. Like,

I don't, like... Come on people follow embargo

geez, you know Yeah, I like I go loony I like

Some of the other tracks on here as well with

return of the cave crusaders The classic themes

like the Joker mobile chase like the classic

Batman main title The classic Batman in title

There's a scene that Batcave Batmobile arrival

that was very very cool What are some of your

favorites from Return of the Cape Crusaders?

I liked all the villain scenes but As far as

some of the tracks that I I really enjoyed It

was it was obviously like I said the the intro

outro Probably some of the Just because of the

nostalgia factor You get to the Batcave and then

there's the TV dinner factory Yeah, it's kind

of fun That was fun some of the Like like the

bat in the night the Gotham crime Crime spray.

Yeah the villains planning I I didn't care much

for the the the dancing stuff, but I Like how

they made Batman basically it like I'm one step

ahead of every one of you Yep, absolutely and

he tried to roast Robin That's one foul bird

Yeah, absolutely I love both of these scores

these are Animated film scores I can listen to

every now and then when I'm in a certain mood

Just both of them so very well done. Thank you

so much to La La Land Records for sending them

to me Thank you so much for dynamic music partners

to for making them and I think that's gonna do

it for us on this episode Next time join us from

whenever the hell we recorded the Batman season

one We should probably get recording the other

seasons at some point, too Well, there's other

Batman series that you know, we still haven't

done yet, too So anything you want to say before

we get the heck out of here Joker? As an arrow

Yep, cuz it all in One bad day, so there is that

one bad day Mm -hmm. One. That's all it takes.

Two. I should get my own counting show. For a

second there, I thought you were gonna say one,

two, three. That's how many licks it takes to

take it to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie

Pop. Or actually, we could go one, two, three.

Mr. Cow. Yes? How many licks does it take to

get to the Tootsie Roll Center of a Tootsie Pop?

I don't know. I always end up biting. Ask Mr.

Fox, for he's much clever than I. Mr. Fox, how

many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie

Roll Center of a Tootsie Pop? Why don't you ask

Mr. Turtle, for he's been around a lot longer

than I. Me? I bite. Mr. Turtle. How many licks

does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center

of a Tootsie Bar? I never made it without biting.

Ask Mr. Owl, for he is the wisest of us all.

Mr. Owl, how many licks does it take to get to

the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Bar? A good

question. Let's find out. One, two, three, three.

If there's anything I can't stand, it's a smart

adler. How many licks does it take to get to

the Tootsie Roll Center of a Tootsie Pop? The

world may never know. When the world is full

of care, and every headlight screams despair,

when all is great, salvation, war, and life is

vile, then there's a certain thing I do. Which

I shall pass along to you That's always guaranteed

to make me smile Yes! I go ooey As a lightbulb,

banner, bug Simply ooey Sometimes fold and chew

the rug Mr. Life is swell in a panic cell It'll

chase those - Just go loony like a massive casualty

Or a movie or a preacher on TV When the human

race wears an anxious face When the bomb hangs

overhead When your kid turns blue it won't worry

you You can smile and nod instead Get to the