Kevin Smith Retrospective Zack and Miri Make a Porno Review

Hey, this is Greg burger and you are listening

to the geek cast radio network Hello and welcome

back to cinema geeks, yes, we are back once again,

it's been a while but we are here to continue

Look at the career of Kevin Smith this time.

We will be reviewing Zach and Marie make a porno

and Joining me on this adventure through the

career of Kevin Smith is hard candy Mandy. How's

it going? It's Kevin optimus solo. I am here

as well Yes under the weather, but still sticking

it out again. It's right get the gold star for

today Thank you and last but not least Matt Frilly

sent. Hey, it's a full house this time. Yeah,

everyone's here. Yeah, we've had some weird scheduling,

but we're back to look at the career of Kevin

Smith. If you haven't been listening for the

first time, we started with Clerks and we went

through all of his movies and a few more to go.

Now we're in kind of a newer, I guess, age of

Kevin Smith's career as we're seeing him. Escape

from the viewers skew universe a little bit and

trying something new with that camera where you

make a porno and I know a big reason this film

itself actually has an interesting history where

it actually started off as this random television

series that Kevin Smith wanted to make with Jason

Lee back in the 90s about him being in the porno

industry and it just not working out and then

also Kevin Smith really wanted to work with Seth

Rogen and then finally they came together to

make this film knowing that you know Seth Rogen

when this came out was kind of emerging as a

huge star. He was in a lot of Joe Nott Patel

movies and 40 year old version to what is that

other movie that he's with with Kevin Hagel?

Knocked Up? Yeah, so he was kind of weirdly going

into this thing, a bigger star than Kevin Smith

in a way, with his own kind of notable style

with his work with Joe Nott Patel. So I mean,

I guess I'll start with you. What are your overall

thoughts? of Zach and Marie. And do you feel

like, you know, knowing that you have Seth Rogen

and you have Kevin Smith, does it feel like more

of a mentioning of the two or do you feel like

one that they work well together or does it feel

like two separate movies where partially Kevin

Smith and partially kind of Seth Rogen doing

his thing? You know, before you mentioned anything

about that, I didn't think about it. But now

that you've said that and kind of posed this

question here, it's hard to say. I want to say

it feels just like a Seth Rogen movie, but then

I feel like some of the storyline and the dialogue

is definitely Kevin Smith. So, I don't know.

It's really hard to say. It's definitely a blend

of some sort. Whether it leans one way or the

other kind of depends on the moment in the film,

I think. Makes sense makes sense. Well wait,

so overall did you compare to everything? We've

we've we watched so far. I know you've had some

Kevin Smith movies You enjoyed something that

you didn't where does this stack up compared

to those? I've seen it multiple times I think

I even freaked Kevin out because I knew some

of the lines in the movie and he's like what

you know lines from this movie and I do but I

mean it was I Don't know. It's not one that I

would say is my favorite because i feel like

there's a lot of just i don't know the whole

the whole thing like they make a porno and then

it never actually sell it right is that the deal

like it never actually like it came out so they

didn't really like make a porno did they like

in the end i think that's a big question so yeah

does it follow through with its title i don't

know kevin do you think it follows through with

the promise of what the title is trying to deliver

i mean they made a porno Just because you don't

sell something doesn't mean you didn't make it.

But did they finish, like, the video? They didn't

finish even shooting it. There were still more

scenes and they didn't shoot them. But the whole,

the whole thing is they, this whole premise is

to, for them to make a porn so they can realize

their true feelings for each other when they

have sex for the first time in front of a bunch

of people. Like it just, I don't know, it was

very outside of the realm of believable, like.

But I can I can believe Jay and Silent Bob dressed

up as superheroes Being like wired through them

all more than I can believe this movie Yeah,

I mean certainly I mean, I don't you know, well

Seth Rogen and Elizabeth Banks being a couple

little unbelievable, but hey, you never know

he hit probably as a fantastic personality, but

Kevin questions for you. So I like obviously

with the title like Zach and Marie make a part

of another they're not hiding what it's trying

to be Do you feel like this obviously is a movie

where? Sex is its main topic Kevin Smith is a

person who's never really shied away from that

with this dialogue never really Had it like have

the heavy nudity in his phones, but of course,

it's a little bit different Do you feel like

there is too much shock value in this does it

overcome or over bear? more of the human aspect

that we typically get with Kevin Smith, or is

that just really, the shock value is really in

the title, but the actual movie itself, the execution

is much different? I think the shock value is

in the title, and then there's way too many attempts

for shock value throughout. I think this is prime

example of why it's not always, of why it's a

good thing that not all 13 -year -olds have the

ability to make movies. Because if this is something

that was like on his mind when there when he

was younger or this that and the other It was

probably something that should have just stayed

one of those things that was on his mind that

never came to fruition I I don't know. I am NOT

a fan of this movie at all. I did not enjoy it

at all It's I don't know to me there was I Get

what you're saying and I didn't think of that

either with the whole Seth Rogen versus Kevin

Smith, but I I don't think it's I enjoyed the

actors, I guess, through it. It wasn't like I

disliked Seth Rogen's performance or Elizabeth

Banks or any of the other individuals. I enjoyed

their characters and their acting. I just didn't

care for the plot or the writing or any of that

type of stuff. I felt like both the best parts

of Seth Rogen are lost in this and I felt like

the best parts of Kevin Smith are lost in this

movie. Maybe because it was a little above it

didn't succeed in either factor for me I didn't

find much of the dialogue interesting or clever

like I have in a lot of the other stuff I Was

just just I was angry when I was watching this

movie for some reason I think I will start off

it started off on a great note. Let me just point

this out I only wrote one note for this movie

and that is like in the opening sequence they

play Sex and Candy by Marci's Playground which

like immediately took me back to that time period

and I was like, oh I used to love this song like

this is great Let's do this. Let's have a great

soundtrack and some fun here and then I didn't

like anything else after that Man coming on swinging

Matt how about you overall overall opinions when

it comes to? Zachary maker partner view As as

Kevin mentioned do you feel like Smith and Rogan

they complement each other? Well, or is it just

a meshing that seems like they bring out the

worst of each other? So I I'm not Certain I've

ever seen a Seth Rogen movie Like I never saw

knocked up. I never saw pineapple express This

might be the first time I ever saw a Seth Rogen

movie. He might have been a background character

or a side character in movies I've seen. I think

that's happened, but none of the ones where he's

on the cover say. Have you seen Superbad? No.

Have you seen... Oh no, I know you haven't seen

that. You didn't see this at the end either?

No. Or Neighbors? No. Okay, then you have. It's

just a massive blind spot. You get somewhat of

a feel for them through trailers. Coming up next

month on Cinema Geek's Seth Rogen Spotlight.

Just kidding, good comment. Interesting. I mean,

here's the thing. I think those movies are very

much targeted at me as an audience member. I

think I would enjoy them, but I just haven't

seen them. And so I don't have that. I don't

have anything going into this where I'm looking

for what Seth Rogen does or is known for, just

because I haven't experienced that. So I didn't

have any of that. Maybe I'm going to be the least

harsh on this, but I thought it was an okay rom

-com. I'm a big fan of a romantic story, and

I thought that this was an interesting... different

take, you know, we saw a scene like Love Actually

or Valentine's Day or whatever where there's,

you know, nine people all falling in love around

one day or whatever. And so to see a very different

humorous take on a well -tread thing is a breath

of fresh air. I mean, I don't think it was masterfully

done or perfected anyway. But I don't hate the

movie, like everyone else does, I guess. Well,

I guess in my mind, like, what I'm having trouble

with is what separates this from a... What separates

this from, like, a horny juvenile teenager's

version of a rom -com? Like, what makes it interesting

or clever or what makes it stand out? Like, that's

all I could get in my... Like, that's all I could

think the whole time was, like, this is what

a teenager would write. Like, it's just so...

I don't know. It just felt juvenile to me. I

don't know. I guess I'm probably leaning more

towards Matt. I mean, certainly there's juvenile

aspects to it. I mean, the humor and even the

sequence with Justin Long and Seth Rogen, which

is to me probably one of the funnier moments

with his discovery of him being in porn. Actually,

there's a great like... outtake of just them

going back and forth forever just trying to basically

one -up each other with crazy porn titles, which

I would probably recommend in watching. But I

thought what Smith tends to do well when it comes

to just relationships is the messiness of it

all. And especially like with these characters,

I think as Matt pointed out like comparing it

to other rom -com something like love actually

is that these characters are a little bit more

of a mess their lives or you know, they don't

they're kind of Distraught they're obviously

super poor. This is why they're doing it in the

first place And I think just that perspective

it makes it a little bit different and I did

think how it kind of got to its conclusion. Yes

officially make that that porno, but the final

conversation between Rogan And Elizabeth Banks,

I thought that was the most like Kevin Smith

moment out of all of it where, you know, we often

like out of all the craziness out of all the

funniness. There's always like that sequence

where things get a little bit and you kind of

see, OK, this is where he's trying to make his

his big point of what he's trying to say here.

It's not to me as impactful as something as clerks

or even Jason Amy, where I think there it was

a little bit more cutting edge and trying to

do do something new and I think that's to me

the biggest downfall to this is it does feel

like Smith is trying similar to like some of

the other movies we talked about where Jersey

girl felt like he was trying to tell someone

else's story or doing it like a way that outside

of his norm this too felt like he was trying

to you know he wanted to work with Seth Rogen

and I think trying to write towards what would

work for Seth Rogen and maybe that caused his

own style to be muted a little bit and we are

left with is just the broader strokes when it

comes to comedy and not necessarily something

where like if i didn't put kevin smith smith's

name on this going into it and just like said

watch this movie i don't necessarily think it

i would feel like it's a kevin smith movie for

the most part uh but i think when it just lets

the characters and let the actors be funny and

I think they do have a good chemistry together

like Craig Robinson who I think is a pretty underrated

comedian. I think they and Elizabeth Banks who

I think is an under I don't know if she's underrated

actress but she can be funny she can be dramatic

she does a lot of I think she heavy there's a

lot of heavy lifting that she thinks she puts

in a much better performance than maybe some

of the material that she's given she's probably

the best actress that We've seen in a Kevin Smith

movie would think maybe not maybe she's naming

it would be the downfall But I guess like there

are things I liked about it, but I just overall

felt it it you know it was It not generic, but

it wasn't anything that I felt you know Deserves

compared to like Kevin Smith's best. It was more

going through the motions and Maybe making things

a little bit different compared to other romantic

comedies trying to be a little bit more edgier

but also not not at the same time so i don't

know i don't know if he had to go further with

it or or not but it just by the end of it got

a little old um and i don't know if it ever really

came together by the end yeah obviously you can

tell from what i said already that i didn't feel

like it came together for me either so i agree

with that part amanda yeah i don't know i didn't

feel like there was consistency throughout. I

feel like I got really bored in the middle and

then towards the end it shifts completely from

something that's funny to now they have a relationship.

There are little moments where their relationship

is building seem too small for what their so

-called love is at the end. I don't know if that

made sense. I didn't believe this huge connection

happened overnight. Yeah, I think You see it's

somewhat building obviously when they be you

know There's there them being friends, and I

think they did make like good friends I don't

know if their chemistry ever gotten to the point

where I felt like yeah There was actually some

kindling there Like an actual relationship, but

I did I did ultimately feel like they care for

one another and they just didn't know how to

deal with it. So once they brought in like sex

into that moment, it was just this odd sequence

where it didn't work. But I also wondered if

that was kind of purposeful because they weren't

necessarily meant for each other in that way.

They were in this weird relationship where they're

friendly and when they tried it. Bring sex into

it. It just doesn't really didn't work and that's

why it kind of got messed up there for a while

So I don't know I feel like when when Smith tends

to write a lot of relationships they always end

up not working out the right way or just I don't

know. I just feel like there was potential here.

Like there was like this could have been like

his like something like Jason Amy, but ultimately

I don't like Jason Amy anything had a pointed

Point or felt like it had like a stronger voice

where this was just was missing that for me.

I don't know Matt I feel like we're bashing this

I don't know if there's anything else you want

to bring up that you really enjoyed about it.

I Wish I remembered it a little better because

I know that it wasn't perfect. I know that I

had a lot of very minutiae problems That I just

do not remember I'm not gonna say it like it

It earned its ending even I'm definitely not

going to say that it's it's up to the level of

chasing Amy and chasing Amy Yeah favorite films

of all time and this would not make my top 100

But I I mean, I don't know I I sit in the in

the area of like hey, it's not terrible But I

don't even think I could recommend it Yeah, I'm

not gonna be its defender. It's it's it's an

okay movie Yeah, and that's that's often like

the hardest one to talk about because it's not

like I don't Kevin seemed to be has the strongest

opinion towards of not liking it but like I thought

there were funny bits and I like I legitimately

laughed at times but it's like a Saturday afternoon

movie that you'd like put in the background assuming

there's people there that would won't be offended

by it because there's you know certainly nudity

but it I don't know like it like I think that's

ultimately like the lack of passion that we're

Many of us are having for it kind of was evident

by the movie that we got. Yeah, I think it just

was missing that like If you're gonna go that

route and if you're gonna have that, you know

kind of tire some lewdness or juvenile aspects

that I was complaining about like I could stomach

that if like the payoff there was some type of

payoff at the end for me, but like if you're

just doing that and then wrapping it up like

a Putting it in like this romantic comedy package

like Don't know like they was just missing that

punch missing that payoff at the end that like

and it wasn't clever enough throughout like it

was yes there were some moments that were funny

and Here and there but it wasn't like it was

like Like some of his previous films where you

can just relish in the dialogue and it doesn't

really necessarily matter What all happens in

the end like this one needed something and either

needed to be more clever throughout or it needed

to have some type of payoff at the end for me

and instead that was just like I just it was

like going through the motions of all this like

this lewdness but in the end we're just making

a romantic comedy I don't know it was there was

nothing here for me I guess except I don't mind

the acting performances like I said it's probably

based on some of the films we've talked about

through so far some of the best acting I guess

in all of his films I mean here there there's

been like good roles but like it was pretty good

throughout like most of the actors were legit

and doing a decent job so I'm not dissing on

them at all I just I don't know, I didn't get

the point. Yeah, I was actually gonna ask about,

because one thing we haven't talked about were

the people on it outside of Seth Rogen. I mentioned

Elizabeth Banks, but obviously we have no Jason

Hughes, and anyone else, like, performance -wise

that stood out that people wanted it. Justin

Law? Are you a sherpa off the mountain of gayness?

Yeah, I do feel like he was probably, and I know

a lot of us don't want to have him, but I do

think he, you know, I'm, uh, a fan of Justin

Long. I don't know why I've always found him

funny, but I did think that he had some of the

best moments of the entire movie. I find it interesting

that they said that the female lead role was

written for Rosario Dawson. But she was busy

so they had to go to Elizabeth Banks. I don't

know if that would have... I thought Elizabeth

Banks was good in it though, so I don't know

if that would have necessarily changed my opinion

too much on it. Yeah, yeah. Maybe her and Seth

Rogen would have... maybe had a little bit more

chemistry, I'm not sure. Certainly I thought,

like even looking, I think we had a similar conversation

with Clerks too, but I think she lives with Dawson,

I think. I don't know, that's a good question.

I don't know if she would have done better or

if it would have made a big impact, but does

having this outside of the view, if this was

made within the characters that we know, having

Jane, Silent Bob, or anything like that, what

do you? would it have done anything differently?

Do you feel like it would feel more like that

or was keeping it separate from that like the

right thing to do? I liked that we got Jason

Muse in a different character besides Jay I think

he was a lot more toned down and he was easier

to stomach and you could you could like him a

little bit better like he wasn't such a depraved

awful human being like he could not feel so bad

to like be on his side about stuff I actually

think I would have liked this better if it was

still in the ViewSKU universe. Like, if they

had done this and it was, like, actually Jay

or Silent Bob that was having this connection

with somebody and learning through this bizarre

scenario, maybe I would have been able to buy

in more. Jay got his little love affair, though,

when Jay and Silent Bob strike back. Yeah, I'm

just saying, like, I gave him another chance

to, like, dig more into one of those two characters.

In this setting, maybe I would have bought it

more. I don't know. You can't have more Silent

Bob because he's... He's silent. Like, you can't

have him as a main character. The first ever

silent porno. I guess probably not first, but...

I mean, you could make it Silent Bob's, you know,

coming out as a person who talks party movie.

Yeah. But yeah, I guess I understood kind of

getting away from that, and I don't know if it

would have impacted my... Enjoyment it was fun

seeing Jason Muse like in a in a different role.

Yeah, which you know and seeing all of Jason

Muse, which hey, yeah I got a comment on that

just for Because of the timing of it all I happen

to watch this movie the same week DC launched

their Whatever their adult titles Lineup was

and so I got to see Jason Muse and Batman's canonical

dick in the same week Man, there you go. What

else do you need to achieve in life? Yeah, I've

done it all, guys. Let's walk away now. That's

why it took so long to do this episode. We were

just trying to figure out how to put that arm

one poke. Once you hit that status and the viral

tweet you had, I mean, what more can you do?

You just need a viral tweet about seeing both

of them. I tried to put it out there, but just

no one bit. But yeah, anything else anyone? I

know we're not a huge amount to say, but ultimately

it's kind of the product that we got. I know,

like I said, I think there is a better movie

here, but it just, I don't know. There were,

I mean, I did find the audition scenes pretty

funny, like the, even like seeing Jim Norton

show up and things like that. And I think that

that was, you know, it. It had bits, but it felt

like going into this like if you I could come

up with the jokes I thought I would see in this

and then I pretty much saw all those and I don't

know so Yeah, I mean would any of you go out

of your way to watch this again I I mean I saw

before this you know just when it first came

out And I've never had and I haven't watched

it until we did this retrospective, so I guess

the answer to that question would be no Amanda,

would you watch this again? I've seen it a bunch

because if it's on TNT or something like that

and it's on TV, I'll watch it. But I don't put

a disc in to see this. How is the cable edit

of this movie? How does it come out? It's actually

not that bad. I mean, it's just as forgettable.

I don't know. I can't remember if they cut the

poop part out or not. I don't know. It was such

a memorable experience for you. No, I'm trying

for that not to be a memorable experience. Do

you guys remember when it was coming out in Europe?

Because I was reading a lot about how a lot of

like in certain areas a lot of like it was super

heavy edited. It actually was kind of an interesting

story. I think it was the story of this movie.

and just like trying for them to get it marketed

and the challenges that they came across, like

how the poster was made just to be as inoffensive,

that's why they use stick figures, how like certain

cities wouldn't allow it, like in certain areas,

obviously they wouldn't say, you couldn't say

in a porno and it was just like, it did seem

to really hurt the film because I know they were

really hoping, like Kevin Smith was hoping this

would be like his biggest movie and it is, I

think as a... 2009 I don't know if it still is

now or it was one of his biggest films But it

wasn't necessarily to like what Rogan said the

Rogan was doing with stuff like knocked up So

I know like after he was really kind of distraught

with how it didn't do What he was hoping for

but I don't know if it's simply because it's

a hard movie to market to a lot of people if

it was the Best performing movie at that point.

I would have to say that it still is right. I

mean We're not trying to say that, like, Red

State, Tusk, or Yoga Hosers was more financially

successful, I wouldn't think. Unless I missed

something on those ones. Maybe they made more

money than I thought. Cop -out? I don't know

how to cop -out, too, compared to that. That'd

be the only close one, I guess, maybe. I'm excited

for that one. I love that movie. I'll check,

but I'm not sure. Yeah. I mean, this movie did

well. even though it might not have hit his expectations,

it doubled its budget. I mean, it made like,

what, 48, 49 million or something like that on

a 24 budget. And it did well on Rotten Tomatoes.

It's got a 65%. I would consider that well for

this movie. I don't get it, but it did. Cap Out

did do better, but it's Cap Out, Zack, and Mary

dogma. Makes sense. Um, but Red State only released

in five theaters, so that's not it. That's not

a fair and made over a million No, actually I've

heard from from Nate of all people that it's

probably the best Kevin Smith movie there is

but it's a hard serious like thriller movie I'm

not looking forward to it because I'm terrified

of it. I don't know I've seen Red State and I

remember it's I think it's not something to be

fearful of, compared to other movies you have

to watch in the end of this retrospective. So

that's not one you need to worry about at all.

So, but yeah, anything else before we bring this

episode to a close? I'm good. All right, well,

let's go with final thoughts and overall great

demand and start with you. Oh, I don't even know

what else to say about this, you guys. Like,

I didn't need this to exist, really. That's a

movie poster right there Kevin how about you?

Yeah, I mean I was bounced back and forth between

two and three So I'll just try to be in line

with my wife here and I'll say three out of ten

as well Wow, I think the first time I ever heard

you say my wife You didn't say it right. You

gotta do the borat. Don't do it. Don't do it,

she said. I gotta listen to you. Matt, how about

you? My final thoughts are I would have loved

to have seen the original script, in -movie script

completed, but since that whole set and all the

costumes got destroyed, we know we'll have to

deal with the movie that we ended up getting.

You know, all both two incomplete porno movies

within it. But as a middling movie, I mean, it

deserves a middling score. I'm going to say five.

Wow. I was actually about, because I said it

was about an average film, maybe below average,

I would possibly go, go, go four, because it's

one of those things where it's like, again, like

it's after I've watched it, nothing really stood

out to me minus a few scenes here and there.

And it just nothing really. I don't really have

strong feelings for it one way or another. Like

if anything, I'd rather having having Kevin's

strong dismissal of it would have a bigger impact

on me. But I think he's made like other movies

will talk about worse. But I think this one just

I don't know. It doesn't feel like there's anything

here that that is warranted of like. huge discussion

or feel like that. There's much to say, unfortunately.

But we'll see. Of course, we have some movies

that are still yet to come out. We talked about

a thing next week. We'll be talking next time

we talk. We'll be discussing Cop Out, and then

we get into the latter half of Kevin Smith's

career, where he kind of goes more into a more

horror thriller world, which should be a lot

of fun. It really is interesting to talk about,

because I could see why he did this after this

movie, because it felt like he just ran out of

jokes to say. He's done all this. Star Wars and

pop culture references. So let's move on from

that. But maybe now that we have more Star Wars

movies, we'll get a Clark's III. Who knows? But

all right. Well, if people want to listen to

more of you or follow you on social media, man,

that would be the best way to do that. On Twitter,

you can find me at HardCandyMandy, I's and a

Y's. Kevin, I know we have a lot going on right

now. So I don't know if you want to talk about

that and let people know how to follow you on

Twitter. Yeah, for sure. If you want to follow

me or your have any questions for me on Twitter,

follow at Optimus Solo, but also follow at GeekCast

Radio. We got a lot of stuff going on here towards

the end of the year. We're currently finishing

up our wrestling tag team tournament, trying

to find the best wrestling tag team of all time.

And towards the end of the year, beginning of

next year, we'll start our top 100 wrestlers

countdown, single wrestlers. So if you're a wrestling

fan, we got a lot of content coming to you here

towards the end of the year. Yeah, and Matt,

how about yourself? I'm at Fridley Sent. and

I'm at Movie Revolt. Also some content coming

out at the end of the year. I'm currently working

on some end -of -the -year lists, which seems

weird to say, but we're almost there. We'll be

halfway through November very soon, so I'll have

some end -of -the -year comic book lists, the

top 100 comics of 2018. and probably some awards.

I don't know, Kevin, if you'll be doing any posts

or anything like that. I clearly have not watched

enough movies to do anything movie related, because

my top ten wouldn't be able to be created, because

I've seen ten movies in 2018. I can give you

my top ten Kevin Smith movies, if I wanted. There

we go, there we go. I'll be doing something movie

related towards the end of the year, and we'll

also be getting closer and closer to finding

out who drafted the best box office squad here

movie -wise. I haven't looked in the last month

or so, but we'll... interesting to see where

we all fall with that. I was very happy to see

that Grinch did really well because it was like

a late -round pick for me so made me happy. It

was a good pick. Yeah. Alright well if you want

to listen follow me on Twitter you can do it

at Movie Revolt or the podcast at Cinema Geekcast

and as Kevin mentioned at Geekcast Radio. We'll

be back shortly as we continue our look at Kevin

Smith's career or more movie talk. Check out

Cinema Geeks until then. Thanks for listening.