Kevin Smith Retrospective Mallrats Review

you And welcome to Cinema Geeks as we continue

our Kevin Smith retrospective. Today we are looking

at Kevin Smith's second film, Mallrats. Joining

me on this adventure as we travel down the world

of Kevin Smith is hard candy Mandy. How's it

going? I feel like what I wanted to do was just

be silent like Silent Bob, but I didn't think

anybody would get it. So hey. Maybe it was a

visual pod, like more of a video cast. I could

have done his like head tilt with his eyebrow

raise thing that he does like, eh. Maybe next

time Kevin can just verbally explain what's going

on. As I indicated, also joining us today of

course is Kevin Natsumisola. I wish I could remember

what Jay's phrase is throughout the film, so

I can say this. Snoochy boochies. Yeah, I was

gonna say snoochy boochies. But that's all I

got. Oh lord. We've lost her. I wanna scream

that out at some point in the game. Oh lord.

And of course, drawing it as well as Matt Fridley

sent, how's it going? Snugins! That's the key

to comedy, just put a snu in front of things

and something becomes funny. But yes, we are

going through the career of kevin smith. We've

talked about clerks and now we're getting into

his second film mall rats he was this director

that came out of nowhere and Now he had an opportunity

to kind of prove that he was going to be somebody

after you know making the surprise indie hit

that he Basically, you know use his comic stash

for and you know now he had the opportunity to

have real studio behind him with real production

values and things of that nature or so Obviously

in a movie that was shot in color. So certainly

upgrading in certain areas and things like that.

So we talked about our feelings with Clarkson

I know The reception of Wallrats at the time

was very negative. It was looked at as the classic

sophomore slump where Smith financially did not,

the movie itself did not do very well. Critically,

it was panned and I think most people thought

it was one of the worst movies of the year, or

at least nowhere near to the level of Clerks.

But I think as time has gone on, some people

have kind of went back and maybe changed their

mind on it. I know, Amanda, was this the first

time you watched Wallrats? Yeah, I think I've

seen like a couple scenes, but definitely not

anywhere even like close to half of the film

So this was basically a first time watch So no,

you know, there seems to be someone of a split

reaction and obviously Kevin Smith always has

his fans But do you feel that it's a drop -down

compared to clerks or do you think it's better?

Like what your overall opinions of smaller acts?

I Liked this better than clerks. I was able to

get involved this more, and I feel like I latched

on and liked the characters in this a lot more.

Interesting, interesting. So we have one better

than Clerks. Kevin, how about you? This is whether

your first time watch or at least first time

fully through. What are your thoughts on Walrides?

Yeah, this is one that I've seen scenes here

and there. I've probably seen good chunks of

the movie, but I'd never seen it probably from

beginning to end while I was paying attention.

So I feel like... It's a hard question to answer.

I feel like the dialogue and the writing is better

in Clerks, but I feel like the acting and the

production value obviously is better in Mallrats.

So it's kind of a mixed bag. I think there's

elements that are better in Clerks, and I think

there's elements that are better in Mallrats.

If you're asking which film I enjoy more, I think

the fact that... Of the accomplishment of what

he did with clerks with not much to go on Makes

it a little bit more impressive and the fact

that he had a little bit more to work with and

some better actors I just feel like I wish the

script would have just been a touch better in

mall rats And that's why I think I can't quite

put it up as high as clerks But I enjoyed both

films, but I think I'm a little bit leaning towards

clerks And and man, do you feel like mall rats

deserves the sophomore label or do you think

it actually? In retrospect, there's a lot of

people that better than people said initially

when it first came out I think that a lot of

people were uh I mean, I don't know like you

said worst movie of the year. Like it is not

I mean maybe maybe not not ua bowl level But

at least like I think it was I know ruddered

eager to hated it There's a lot of people who

were not really big fans of it So it was it was

pretty panned pretty hard by a lot of people.

That's I mean, here's the thing. I think Kevin

got it pretty much right. Like, I've watched

this movie a few times and almost always right

after watching Clerks, like within a day to a

week after watching Clerks. And both times it's

like, there's some improvements, there's some

downgrades. Like, it's not as good. Like, I mean,

if you want to say sophomore slump, I think that's

fair. Um, though a little like harsher to than

reality really is it's it's slightly less good

than clerks, but it's still you know, a decently

solid movie Interesting interesting I I remember

the first time I watched walrads like I did not

like it at all It just kind of just did not click

with me. So I I went into this I don't know the

last time I watched it like dreading it like

we're thinking oh, this is gonna be really bad

and It was actually, you know, like it ended

up being better than I expected. I actually still

like Clerks a lot more. I guess I feel like Clerks

had something like more to say, or at least it

felt like it had a clear idea of what it was

in a way. And I felt like some of the bits worked

a little bit better. Maybe it's just, I also

appreciated just the raw nature of this where

some of this, I feel like it does feel very 90s

for sure, but. I know Amanda, you mentioned that

you gravitated toward these characters a lot

more than the ones in Clerks. And why was that?

What about these characters appealed to you time

around? I just think that there was more here

for me to, I don't know, necessarily relate to,

but I could put myself in their situation more.

Were you a frequent -er of them all in the 1990s?

Doesn't sound like as much as these guys. Like,

I didn't go there just - Like hang out as much

like I would go there to shop, but I wasn't just

like Going there too. That was my socializing

spot when I was younger Probably cuz I'm always

like your palm read and all that good stuff.

No Not by any third nipples or anything like

my mom used to make me have one of those Motorola

like long distance walkie -talkies when I went

to the mall like I couldn't go by myself until

it was probably like almost 18. So I didn't get

to just like go hang out so that that part I

really couldn't get behind but some of the girls

like you know they're shopping and things that

they were doing like yeah I can get down on that

but I think it was more just kind of the I feel

like a lot of this revolved around relationships.

I mean it really did all of all revolving around

relationships and I feel like with clerks it

was a little bit more than just like romantic

relationships, so I liked here too, like Jay

and Silent Bob did a lot more that didn't make

them just seem like stupid punks. Like they were

good friends in this too, so I thought that was

cool. I was always a little bit envious of like

the mall culture because I live so far away from

it and I always thought that would be a cool

place to work, like working at one of the stores

in the mall because it's like a whole community.

There's like a billion stores there with a billion

different people working there and but yet you

see the same people every day so I always thought

it would be cool to be part of that but I never

was someone who went to the mall very often at

all like I think maybe once or twice a year at

the most but I think the difference for me is

the conversations and clerks that they're having

seem to just be revolving around more intelligent

concepts or at least more concepts that whether

they're intelligent or not are more well thought

out and I felt like too many of the conversations

and the dialogue here was more juvenile in a

lot of respects I mean yes there was the relationship

aspects but there was another you know good portion

of it that seemed like it was just like juvenile

teenage men You know conversations where I didn't

get that as much in clerks It seemed like it

was more like this is what intelligent people

that are not doing much In their present state

in life would talk about so I don't know I think

that was there was like a maturity element in

one compared to the other at least I guess that's

how I'm explaining it Does that at all have to

do with the age of the characters that we're

dealing with? I know I mean It does seem like

they're Late teens or early early ish 20s. Is

that part of why it might be a little bit more

juvenile? Yeah, I'm not really sure I just think

it's just some of the way that they're like Especially

early on like how they're portrayed and kind

of the reasons why they have problems with their

relationship It just seems like a typical, you

know, like juvenile thing to be Upset about or

to have feuds about whereas in clerks, it's more

I don't know It seemed like it was more legit

stuff that they were fighting about. I don't

know whether it was you know, whether they had

more credence to be upset or not it just seemed

like it was it was more I don't know believable

for why the problems in the relationships were

in clerks compared to here where it's just their

relationships are because the guys are kind of

douchebags that aren't you know fully into the

relationship like most guys that age so I don't

know it just maybe it's just Jason Lee for the

most part he just came across very obviously

immature and Childish so that was a slight turn

-off in some of the conversations that then came

from him. I guess Yeah, I could definitely see

that cuz you look at like kind of the reasoning

why they're they're they're having relationship

troubles and what they're speaking of and These

kind of characters in a way like Jason Lee feels

like it like the man child. That's kind of very

prevalent today In a way like the kid like the

person who hasn't gotten grown up where like

Dante in clerks It seems like just like a regular

dude who's just trying to get by I think that

certainly plays into that I don't know how you

feel about the comedy in general I know we get

a little bit more slapstick in this with this

especially with Jay and silent Bob, but the comedy

overall How did it work for you? I do feel like

the the comedy There's a little more juvenile.

There's like poop jokes and like... The throw

up jokes and... Yeah. Part of me was really bothered

by the Jay and Silent Bob Batman grappling hook

scene. I don't know. I feel like this is definitely

the most slapstick -y of all of his movies as

far as I can remember just from like going back

in my own memory. Like it's got a lot of really

weird things like that. but some of the comedy

like the the stan lee bit like hit so well like

that was so good or or even like the fortune

teller i thought was really well done even though

the whole thing was just like a like a you know

three minute boob joke i thought it was very

hilarious the the change of character between

the two i think i think that yeah some of the

comedy is definitely less good than clerks like

Clerks there weren't moments that did didn't

hit nearly as well as much as there were in this

like this had a lot more peaks and valleys I

think Shannon Doherty I think is the one who

said it but like she has a Quote to Jason Lee

that kind of like summed it up because she said

something about something around the lines of

like your maleness surprises me sometimes like

that was the type of Humor that we were getting

to exemplify like the maleness of Jason Lee from

like a from like an immature You know, maybe

comic book or video game fan, etc. But then you

also get it in the same respect from Ben Affleck

as like the macho male like pig type thing. So

you're getting a lot of like the almost like

a caricature of like the typical male in a couple

different respects and I thought that was what

took us away from some of like the more like

Dante etc who are having conversations that are

important to them about their life and their

future and stuff like that and about their state.

you know in the world it just seemed like it

was more i don't know a higher level yeah like

ultimately i when looking at this i it felt like

it was trying to lead to something but it never

quite got there amanda how are you how did you

feel about the humor in general did it work for

you like was it did it seem off compared to the

clerks or or did you kind of enjoy it more this

time around i don't know i think that none of

the really funny stuff came from any of the ladies

I feel like the ladies were kind of uptight in

this and they had almost like stereotypical motives

just like the men but I feel like the men got

all of the funny stuff everything that was really

funny happened with the guys the only other funny

part was maybe the fortune -teller but even even

with her like it was all like objectified women

stuff like boobs and her trying on underwear

in the middle of the store and just like open

sluttiness and locker or the changing room and

stuff like that yeah just all of that so i mean

all the humor was just like guy humor definitely

and I don't think that this was made for women

really. I mean maybe maybe it shows like a characterized

characterized version of You know all the things

that women hate in men like this But I don't

know not a not a lot of the stuff landed with

me I think the Jay and silent Bob stuff was the

funniest to me That woman thing does like I do

want to write that because it does seem like

That's where he has trouble writing and especially

I don't know about anyone else but like the I

can't think of the character's name because I

never can but The one character was that was

like 15 years old and like her subplot. It was

like that just seemed that was off Yeah, like

yeah off putting is the word that I would probably

use to describe it Yeah, that's for sure. We

do get some stuff that was pretty funny, too,

on a non -verbal moment, too, because Amanda

was talking about the Jay and Simon Bob stuff.

I thought the blueprints were just gold. The

blueprints for their plans. If you pause it and

read everything that's on those pages, that is

some of the funniest stuff in the entire movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Another big piece of this, obviously,

we have the comic book. We have Stan Lee. I can

imagine at the time having him here. film where

stanley shows up and i think i would assume a

lot of people would have no idea who he is but

obviously as we have all the marvel films that

has changed you think in a way like this actually

was ahead of the game because it it talked about

a culture that was not really portrayed at to

this level that is kind of common now it was

stanley's hair he says all that and you're gonna

talk about stanley's hair I Think I think to

the other thing that we've been spoiled by seeing

Stan Lee show up and like every Marvel movie

and you know all the stuff since then where I

think it would have had more of an impact back

then seeing him and I think some of the stuff

that they're talking about is is That is where

we get the most intelligent conversation I think

is when we're dealing with Stanley like that's

when more of the higher level bigger picture

Dialogue comes out for me. So that that really

worked for me. Would this be that would this

be the all -time best Stanley cameo? Oh, yeah,

for me it definitely is Yeah I'm at like I know

like it does feel like specifically of a time

of the 90s where like it that had that kind of

comic book culture of that era so I wasn't into

comics until the early 2000s but like it it does

feel like it's so heavily 90s though like 90

% of the characters are male characters at least

where if like flannel like and he's seeing like

he like he walks in like T .S. walks into the

mall like the very first time he walks the mall.

I think he's wearing like a plaid or flannel

shirt and then is tying a different one around

his waist. And it was like, holy crap. This is

so 1990s. It was intense. There are moments that

seem like Stanley just like fake, like throwing

out fake Marvel comics or comics that I've just

super never heard of. But I'm pretty sure they're

fake. like, seemed really weird and disingenuous,

because I know Kevin Smith and Stanley both know

comic books, but, uh, other than that, like,

I can't really speak on the comic book 90s aspect

of it. Were there any other key points people

wanted to talk about? I know there's obviously

some classic running jokes and stuff like that.

We didn't mention the magic eye, which I am one

who cannot see magic. I felt for him because

I can never do it. I don't have that whatever

it is. I just lack that ability. Probably the

character I related to the most. I seen that

guy in a ton of stuff, but I didn't realize that

this was his first film role. I had trouble with

Magic Eye things at first, but then eventually

it clicked on and I was fine with them. I was

wondering though for character -wise, because

that was another thing I was thinking of when

I was comparing this film to Clerks. As Clerks

there was, you know, some characters that I could

actually relate more to or I liked. Was there

any, I don't see myself liking or being drawn

to as many characters in this film particularly.

Like did you guys have a character that you like

really liked and were like interested in seeing

more from them besides Jay and Silent Bob maybe?

No, just Jay. Just Jay? And Silent Bob. You said

just Jay I Mean Matt Dan was there characters

that you were drawn to or that you liked a lot

because a lot of them I have a lot of like not

so great qualities about them. I found Jason

Lee's character interesting or entertaining at

times although Kind of like we mentioned juvenile,

but I at least when he was he like obviously

reminded me of Randall from clerks but like a

different type of approach to that character

and I do like Jason Lee as an actor and knowing

this was like his first really role and he's

before this he was a professional skater so I

thought for like uh performance wise he actually

did pretty well and I thought like without him

this movie does not have nearly the amount of

energy it does I think he brings a lot to like

he's kind of the one pushing things along throughout

but Other than that, not necessarily. I mean,

like, seeing Michael Rooker, weird seeing him

being in a game show thing, but I'm always a

fan of him, so. What about you, Matt? What exactly

is the question? Just final thoughts? Just any,

no, no, any characters that you were drawn to

or that you liked or found redeeming? Oh, yeah,

yeah, characters. Um, I did like, uh, oh, shoot,

the, um, the clerk's guy, um, Randall, like,

his character I thought was hilarious. Like,

cause he was just, he was just... like a guy

in a shitty situation that I thought was kind

of funny. But like Jane's and Bob were definitely

the star of this. And you can see that's why

they got their own movie. Eventually, like none

of these other characters really come back except

for those two. But like, do we talk like is now

the time to talk about the Mallrats sequel that

that never was? Sure. This was what, like a year

and a half, two years ago now, like Kevin Smith

got every single member of the Mallrats crew

to sign on to do a sequel. and then found out

that he didn't own the rights to it. And then

like, but like it was, it's like a known failure.

And so he's like, it shouldn't be that hard to

get the rights. And so then he like went in and

tried to get the rights and the company that

owns him like is apparently known for not willing,

like letting go of anything. Like they hold everything

regardless of whether it'll make them money or

not. And so then he started to work with them

and then they were like, well, let's turn it

into like a, like a Netflix like. Miniseries

and then eventually just like all imploded and

then I think he wanted to do clerks 3 and I think

that imploded and like now He's working on something

else Then he tried to do a TV series and they

had like he pitched it to like five or six different

channels And none of them none of them would

pick it up Yeah, so that yeah, definitely not

having much much luck trying to rejuvenate this

this particular part of his filmography I thought

it's another thing that we do get to see here

with this film is the establishment because you

know before it's just the first film so we don't

know if there's any patterns or not you guys

have seen more of the film so you guys can kind

of tell this but we definitely see a little bit

of kevin smith here in this film establishing

some some likes and some patterns that we're

probably gonna see throughout obviously he's

a huge hockey fan he's a huge star wars fan he's

a huge comic book fan so we get to see all of

those elements um emerging in this one um as

well as obviously the they're they're two slice

of life type films. So we kind of get to see

that aspect of them. So some things that are

establishing themselves as maybe trends as far

as filmography. I don't know if anybody else

saw anything else that they want to point out

that maybe makes a Kevin Smith film, a Kevin

Smith film. I think. Did you see the clerks hat

that they brought out for a minute there at the

flea market? Oh, yeah. Yeah, a little little

fan service, I guess. I think another thing like.

And I think it was a disservice to this movie,

but somehow worked in clerks is just like these

like weird monologues that people go on about

like pop culture references and stuff where they

like they'll just say just a fucking blurb of

stuff like when they go like when they're going

on about the the the star destroyer this death

star like like It's less of a conversation at

first. It's always just like someone just starts

spewing stuff and I know that he has said in

some of his like talks with Kevin Smith that

that's like a thing he people don't talk like

this like people like ask him a lot like is this

what your life is like where people just go up

and just start spewing nerd stuff and he's like

no but he doesn't really have a better medium

to do it in and maybe that's become less of a

thing since becoming a podcaster but like in

the 90s like if you wanted to get out your weird

Incredible Hulk theory I guess you just write

a major motion picture and have a character just

spew it and then maybe have people react to it

Before Twitter Yeah, yeah before Twitter or podcasting

or any of the other other ways we have doing

that you just you know We need to make a couple

million dollar movie like he had Stan Lee on

just to legitimately ask him those questions

that about all the Anatomy of different heroes.

I think that was like something that he was longing

to get the actual answers to Alright, well, let's

go around with Final Thoughts and overall grades

for Mallrats. Amanda, let's start with you. Final

Thoughts loved the posters in what's -his -face's

-room. What is this? Brody? Brody, yes. Brody

Bruce with the Tremors poster. What? Dang it.

And Showing Love to the Kitties. Remember Showing

Love to the Kitties part? Baby Kitties. Baby

Kitties. It's my favorite parts. Um, grade...

Shoot man, I'll give it a six and a half six

and a half from Amanda In case nobody could hear

that since yes Final thoughts let's see interesting

to see the choice to put Ben Affleck in the Batman

Image at the beginning of the of the film, so

I guess he was seen into the future Interesting

they they filmed this in Eden Prairie, Minnesota

And I didn't know we should have looked it up

and taken some pictures because we were in Eden

Prairie Minnesota like two months ago So we were

in the same town that they filmed us in and we

didn't even know it They at one point said they

had a line in there about Jay or Santa Bob being

better than MacGyver. It lost like a half a point

on my scale for them saying that because nobody's

better than MacGyver. And I think my favorite

quote of the whole thing, I have no respect for

people with no shopping agenda. That was great

because that was like me for so long. I'm like,

no, you go in and get it. You get done. I can

get this done in a very efficient time. I don't

just go to just browse or whatever. So overall,

I'm right with Amanda. I think I'm in like the

sixish range. So six out of 10, six and a half.

That's a, that's good score for me. All right.

Matt. Well, I think I really do think there's

a lot of improvements from, from clerics, but

I do think it's not as good of a movie as clerics.

So like, I think it's maybe like a a six like

that seems low to me like especially if you consider

like some of the other things i've given other

things recently um so maybe it's a seven but

like it's uh it's not bad yeah bring in endorsement

Not yet. Yeah, yeah, like I said like I went

into this remember like really not liking it

the first time I saw it and Ended up enjoying

it a little bit more. Just remember the acting

kind of throwing off Maybe the fact that I recently

watched clerks to kind of put me in the right

mindset So my I do think if like you've never

watched it Kevin Smith's film more action and

be your first because I think that would probably

turn you off I hate to be repetitious, but I

would I was heading for six out of ten as well.

I get It's you know, it's not failing grade,

but it's it's about an average movie for me I

think there are some things that I did enjoy

but ultimately there were just a lot of cringe

-worthy moments that I found really just Necessary

and really dragged a movie out for me. So yeah,

I'm interested to see what we have next but Because

this we did kind of get a small preview of the

next movie. We'll be talking about as some of

the actors that appeared in this will be in,

of course, not just Jane Silent Bob, but Ben

Affleck obviously plays a huge role in Kevin

Smith's third film, Chasing Amy, which we'll

get into. But we'd like to hear what you have

to say about Mallrats. I know there's a lot of

fans of Mallrats, so if you are, let us know

what you think and we'll defend your film. We

can do that by tweeting us at Cinemagicast or

going to the episode post that. GeekCastRita

.com. Everyone in here is also on Twitter. Amanda,

what is your Twitter name? At HardCandyMandyEyesNoWise.

Kevin? Mine is at OptimusSolo and interesting

that when Amanda and I tweeted out that we were

watching Mallrats, we did get people who liked

and disliked the film. We got a couple positive

comments and a couple negative comments and a

like from Kevin Smith. So... There we go. There

we go. Maybe we'll try to engage him more as

we go through this process, but he definitely

liked the tweet that we sent out that said that

we were watching Mallrats. Nice, very nice. And

Matt, what is your Twitter name? I'm at FridleyScent.

And I'm at MovieRevolt. But join us next time

as we continue our Kevin Smith retrospective

with a review of Jason Ami. Thanks, and we'll

see you then.