Interview with Thom Zahler on Long Distance and Comics

Hey, this is Tom Zoller, creator of Long Distance,

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pull bag and the GCRN. Unleash the geek in you.

Hello and welcome to the pull bag. I'm of course

TFJU and Mike, your host from the GeekCast radio

network. And today, uh, this actually happened

within the last week or so. Actually, I would

probably say the last seven days. I found, and

I honestly have no idea how I found it, but usually

when I find comic series, new comic series to

read on Comixology, you know, I'll sit there

and read them and I'll go through them, whatever

they are, if it's one or two issues at first

or if it's, you know, a four issue miniseries

or whatever it is, I'll go through and I'll read

them and be like, oh, okay, well, I wonder if

the creators are on Twitter or Facebook or whatever

else. And this past Labor Day weekend, I think

I said Memorial Day weekend a minute ago. Oh

boy, I'm losing my mind over here. Labor Day

weekend, because this is September, thank God.

I found a series from IDW, ironically. I didn't

even know IDW did these kind of books. A four

-issue miniseries called Long Distance. And this

is done by artist, writer, or writer -artist,

whoever he prefers, you know. Whichever first,

uh, Tom Zayler. Hello, Tom. How are you? Fine,

how are you? Um, sorry, it's Zoller, short A.

Zoller, okay, sorry. Everyone does it, don't

worry. Uh, Tom is, uh, actually just back from

DragonCon, so... Yeah, so just sobered up. Just

sobered up, yeah. Oh, boy. Uh, so... You went

to Dragon Con. How was that, first of all? Dragon

Con was amazing. It's come to be one of my favorite

shows for a bunch of reasons. This year I was

able to do a little more than I had in previous

years. A little more social networking. Just

hanging out and playing card games and having

dinners and things like that. Because of where

I was staying before, things of that nature I

wasn't able to. So I think this was definitely

my most fun Dragon Con. This is my fifth one.

Where did you grow up and did you always want

to get into being an artist or a writer? I grew

up in Northeast Ohio in a place called Timberlake.

I've lived here most of my life and I've always

known I wanted to do this. I was reading from

the age of two and a half. Don't ever remember

not reading. I don't remember not reading comics

and I don't remember not knowing that this is

what I wanted to do What kind of comic was two

-and -a -half year old Tom reading at the top

Probably Superman superhero action comics. Those

are those are the ones. Yeah, I I I remember

like correcting my dad about what in wrath how

to say wrath and an issue of Isis when I was

seven so I was I was pretty far along but yeah,

it was just my My dad actually was one who started

it and he read a book on kids and said there's

no, the book said there's no reason a two year

old can't read. It's just that you don't teach

him. So he, it was almost Machiavellian. He got

a phonics book and he ran phonics drills with

me, but he would only do like two or three pages.

Because you know when you're a kid and you're

spending time here with your dad It's awesome.

And then he would stop after three pages and

go oh we can do more and he's like, no No, we'll

do more tomorrow. So he trained me to want to

keep going with this and and yeah, just I've

I've always been able to I don't remember again.

I don't remember a time when I when I didn't

so So as you were growing up, you know as a kid,

you know once you hit your teen years and all

that stuff what What comics drew you drew you

in outside of Superman? Oh? Firestorm was the

big Firestorm was my my entry -level book because

I had read Superman love Superman love Justice

League You know I have a great collection of

that stuff, but Firestorm was the first book

that an issue one came out When when I was collecting

because you know back then they didn't keep rebooting

titles with issue one It was getting in on the

ground floor. That's what I mean by entry level.

And of course, DC canceled it five issues later.

But I really like that character. And I like

so much of what the dynamic between the young

kid and the older professor and the fact that

the least qualified guy is driving the boat.

There's just so much to Firestorm that I think

is interesting. And then I made it through the

80s DC cultural renaissance and around crisis

and after that, which is It's a lot of my favorite

stuff and is when I think they were firing on

all cylinders, you know, it's they had stuff

like the question and the shadow miniseries and

Dark Knight and Watchmen and you know crisis

itself was really good in history the DC universe

and they were just doing all sorts of interesting

things and they hadn't completely started deconstructing

superheroes and getting to that point like the

Marvel movies do where they apologize for being

superheroes. You know, we, yeah, I'm wearing

a costume. They call me Ant Man. What are you

gonna do? Because there's a certain nature of

comics where you just accept it. You know, it's

just part of it. And the 80s still... There was

a really wide range of stuff. Not all the Batman

books were obsessively grim and gritty. There's

that great run by Mike Barr and Alan Davis on

Detective. It's some of the best Batman stuff

ever. And it's completely accessible. It's a

little more adult than Batman had been up to

that point, probably. But it wasn't exclusionary,

which I think is something that comics are missing

these days. It's a high bar to shoot for. But

I want to write Star Wars, for the most part.

Because you can see Star Wars at seven, and it's

a fantastic movie, and you can see it at 37,

and it's still a fantastic movie. It doesn't

insult its audience. It's not the happy little

elves or something like that. It has something

for everybody without putting anything in that

keeps people from being able to see it. There's

no scene like in the Kingsman at the end where

you're like, oh, so this is completely inappropriate

for anyone under 17. Yeah, you mentioned Star

Wars and all I can think of is, and we'll talk

about this much later in the interview, but all

I can think of is Carter's line, as long as it

doesn't end with an Ewok. Yeah, I mean, comics

today are... There are a lot of good books out

there. Don't get me wrong, there are. But specifically

with the big two, somebody needs to put a boot

in their reboot. Especially DC continuity is

like the weather. If you don't like it, it's

going to change. Yeah, pretty much. And I don't

know how much of it is like a rock star mentality

that has gotten into the industry. Because it

used to be that if you if you got hired to write

Superman, it was your job to write a Superman

story Now you get hired to write Superman's like

what's your take on Superman? Well characters

been around for 70 years. I think that's pretty

well established You know when when you get when

you get hired to write on the 100 or Supernatural,

you know, you you don't suddenly turn supernatural

into into a musical comedy You know you write

supernatural stories you you find your own voice

on it, but you you still write the thing that

you have. And comics these days seem like every

time they get a new creative team, they change

the book entirely. And that leads to a lot of

inconsistency. And it means that every jumping

on point is a jumping off point. Very much. Because

I'll tell you right now, I've only been reading

comics full time since 2012. My buddy Steve,

co -creator of the GCRN with me, went out and

he got Batman number 13 which was the start of

the death of the family story arc and sat there

and wrote a review on our website and I'm like

oh okay so it's the Joker and all I had in my

head was you know Mark Hamill's voice and I'm

like okay I gotta go look you know I gotta go

look into this I gotta go to my local comic shop

and check this this issue out and ever since

then I've just been slowly expanding for a while

I was I've primarily been mostly DC I have jumped

into some Marvel, but not much. I want to get

into more. Right now, my Marvel reading pretty

much consists of the Star Wars books that they're

doing. But it's one of those things where, when

I jumped into DC, and I'm like, oh, Batgirl,

okay, that'll work. And we had 34 great issues.

And it wasn't... People say the Gail Simone Batgirl

run was dark and dreary and had a dark tone.

I mean, I can see it does in the art and in some

of the stories, but there was a whole, she threw

a lot of comedy at that. I mean, it wasn't a,

you know, upbeat story. It wasn't a happy -go

-lucky story, but it still had a lot of funny

moments in it. And then, oh, hey, at issue 35,

new creative team, new artists, new design, we're

putting her in this some... subjugated version

of Gotham called Burnside or whatever that and

I just I dropped it immediately I just I just

couldn't I can't even go back and read those

those first five issues 35 to 40 anymore I gotta

man I haven't checked them out the the reboot

of Batgirl seemed seemed really fun and interesting

to me and it's it is more of what I would like

to see DC do but you know it kind of becomes

like like superman returns where suddenly five

years and everybody is 10 years younger it seemed

like they should have started with that in new

52 rather than done what they did yeah well we

could always have memphis reigns you know superman

lives oh wait no we can't um all right um you're

Now I know you've done a lot of stuff with IDW.

I know you've done some stuff at Marvel What

were you working on at Marvel when you were working

for them? Oh My Marvel work has been really really

limited. I'd lettered a lettered Crimson Dynamo

as part of the epic line That that is That is

my biggest Marvel Comics credit is okay for them

I've done, I worked for Toon Tumblers, so I designed

the glasses that had, you know, Spider -Man and

Captain America and the Avengers on them, and

I have written an episode of the Spider -Man

animated series, Spider -Man Web Warriors, which

has aired in England, but not in the United States.

So my NDA is up on it, and I can say things,

but it's still politically, you know, I'm not

gonna spoil the ending. Can you say what the

title of the episode is so we can look out for

it? For a while, I took the NDA so seriously

because it was my first professional animation

credit where I said, look, I can't tell you anything

about it. I can't tell you if Spider -Man's in

it. You can make a guess about that, but I'm

not going to make a comment. So now I can tell

you that it is Contest of Champions Part 1. It

is part of the season finale. And I got to write

Spider -Man and the Hulk in Iron Man. And it

was just so cool. The weird part to me, amongst

the many weird parts of me finally getting to

write animation, was who voices the characters?

Because Adrian Passar plays Iron Man on the show,

and Adrian Passar, among his many credits, did

a show in the 90s called Profit, which is just...

nominal. I can't tell you how much I enjoy that

it is a show that literally if it came out five

years later and was on HBO, we would all be talking

about how awesome that seven year series was

and buying the blue box set. It the world was

not ready for it. And Fox certainly wasn't ready

for it. But so I mean, I followed his career

since then, because I think he was just magnetic

in that role. And to realize that he has to say

things that I wrote. That's it. It's just amazing.

There was there was supposed to be a J Jonah

Jameson scene in it too that wound up getting

cut and the idea that you know, JK Simmons who

So I went completely freelance in 2001 the very

end of 2001 inspectors is right after September

11th because there's no better time to break

out on your own when the then when the economy

he goes into free fall and So I was I was freelance

for about five months when Spider -Man came out

and there's that great line where we're which

I just bonded with way too much where Peter Parker

is trying to sell his photos to Jonah and Jonah

buys them and Peter Parker says so I'm hired

and Jonah looks and says hired no freelance that's

the thing for a boy your age I just yeah so I

can't I can't complain about Adrian Pissar and

James Arnold Taylor and a few other all the actors

were great but it's just you know Pardon me.

It's like JK Simmons, you know He's Jonah Jameson.

He's on law and order. He he does the farmers

commercials So but yeah, that's the part I wasn't

ready for is is people whose career I followed

having to say words that I wrote That's that's

pretty awesome Yeah, he Ever since I look at

J Jonah Jameson in two ways. I look at him I

don't have the information in front of me, so

you're just going to have to figure it out on

your own. I look at him in the 1994 Spider -Man

The Animated Series. I like that voice actor

that voiced him then. And then there's J .K.

Simmons. There's no other two people in the entire

world that should ever do J. Jonah Jameson. And

ever since J .K. has done it, Whenever he hasn't

been J. Jonah Jameson. I'm like, you know Don't

even try just don't even Notice we didn't see

him in the Andrew Garfield movies. Yeah, I know

they teased and teased and teased it as much

as I Enjoyed the Andrew Garfield movies because

in my personal opinion Andrew Garfield is a much

better Peter Parker than Toby Maguire At this

point, the Andrew Garfield movies almost don't

even matter anymore. I know that people enjoyed

them. I know people liked them. I know certain

people didn't like them, but with this new deal

with Sony and Marvel and what... The politics

that is comic movies is something that I just

so stay away from because it's just so infuriating

to me. Don't tell me about it. Why is there not

a Love and Capes TV show? That's my question.

Or an animated series at least, I mean. Oh man,

I could so see. Alright, so you mentioned Love

and Capes. Was this your very first creator -owned

series? It was not. I did a book called Raider,

which shows you how successful it was when you

asked that question. Raider was in... Raider

was the first thing I did, freelance. I self

-published it. It was an action -adventure spy

book. Kind of a SHIELD hype with one guy caught

in the middle. Does he have a web? No. character

created when I was like 13 and I thought this

was gonna be my magnum opus and I did what everybody

who who does your first project does is you know

you you do volume one of what you're sure is

gonna be a 20 part series you know you just kind

of jump out the gate and become Terry Moore and

I did three volumes of it they they did well

but by the time of the third one I knew I didn't

I didn't have it in me to do a fourth because

you you don't want to One of my feelings about

self -publishing is that you don't print the

book saying, OK, well, when I make my money back,

it's like going to Vegas. You assume you're not

making any of it back, and then you figure out

how to make it work past that. Because financially,

I don't want to be spending a $3 ,000 printing

bill that I think I'm going to get back. It's

better for me to assume that that's gone and

then try to get it back. People who read the

book seemed to like it the artwork the artworks

not bad There's still a lot of it that I'm proud

of but it was me trying to do much more DC house

style Which is what I've grown up on and I hadn't

yet done quite as much cartooning At least not

not that people knew about I do caricatures I

do private parties and I was doing a lot of magazine

illustration and newspaper illustration and those

were all Really cartoony and I found I liked

it, but it wasn't appropriate for the Raider

comic So when I was wrapping up the third one,

I was trying to think of what I was going to

do next. And this will tie into a couple of things.

I'm going to probably blow half the questions

on your list right now. So there was this TV

show on Bravo called Situation Comedy. And it

was essentially a Project Greenlight for sitcoms.

And I said, hey, I'm going to I'm going to do

this. And I had two ideas. And one of them was

a superhero romantic comedy. And one of them

was a comedy about a couple in a long distance

relationship. So the thing I wrote was the long

distance relationship. I did it as a sitcom pitch.

Wrote the spec for the first show. And in the

process of doing that and in the process of the

last issue of Raider, where Raider has an evil

femme fatale foe named Agent Vega, And the two

of them have this kind of Batman Catwoman relationship.

And I just liked writing that banter so much.

And it was one of those things where like, why

am I not doing more of this? This is exactly

what you're supposed to be doing. It's not that

it's easy, but it feels effortless and it's fun

and it's worth the work and all that kind of

stuff. So I put a lot of that in long distance.

And then when I got to Love and Capes, it just

went to another level. And with Love and Capes,

the thing I figured is that I was going to do

one issue. I wanted to have something out that

I could sell at the comic -con and I'd found

a printer that was willing to work with me on

price and I thought it'd be fun and as opposed

to Raider I said I'm gonna do one issue this

is what I'm setting up if if it goes well, I'll

do six and Then the promise I kept making myself

every time I did another arc and I had originally

11 capes was supposed to be a trilogy And then

I realized that it wasn't going to work as a

trilogy because there was way too much ground

to cover from the time they get married to the

time that they have a kid, which I would say

is a spoiler, but the fourth volume is called

What to Expect and Abby is Pregnant on the cover.

And the chances of doing a hilarious miscarriage

scene are pretty low. Oh, so yes, they don't.

Oh my God. For those of us who lived through

funny about love with Gene Wilder and Mary Stuart

Masterson. Oh, what was Leonard Eboy thinking?

Live long and prosper, that's what he was thinking.

He wrote a book about his film experience and

Funny About Love was the one I wanted to know

much more about because Leonard Nimoy is really

funny and I wanted to know where did this go

off the rails? How did this go wrong? And basically

he's like, and then I did Funny About Love and

it wasn't very good. I'm like, no, that's not,

no, I have so many more questions about that

one. What are you doing? That's not an acceptable

answer. There's an NDA involved, isn't there?

You can't talk about what happened. So yes, I

have a kid, and I realized that I needed to make

the newlywed year its own year, and then I needed

to make the pregnancy year its own year. So it's

a quadrilogy. I feel like I need to keep my audience's

expectations in mind when I do a series because

I don't want to do what I did with greater again

where I essentially Said I'm going to tell you

this really really long and awesome story and

like I ran out of money. Nobody's buying it So

I'm not gonna finish that now. So with with love

and capes It was always very compartmentalized

where if if any sixth issue were the last issue

I did It would still be a satisfying conclusion.

It's not that there aren't more stories, but

I got you to a point where it's going to be clean.

I feel this way about TV and How I Met Your Mother,

which I'm a big fan of, actually had it planned

out this way. So if you watch How I Met Your

Mother, the 13th episode is actually designed

to be the season finale. If they had been canceled,

they could have turned that into the finale and

gotten to exactly where they were trying to get

by the time the series ended. And I think you

kind of need to have those break points because

you look, there's a lot of stuff that could happen.

You don't know if you're the book is going to

be successful enough to do more and leaving people

hanging is, you know, how many science fiction

shows have we all watched that were like, oh,

what's happening? You know, why? Why have they

never resolved what's happening with this story?

So I that is so frustrating to me. I try to make

sure that it I don't leave that for anyone else

anymore. Yeah. All right. So Love and Capes.

I am just now getting into that series. I found

like like I said the beginning interview I found

long distance first and I just I plowed through

that man. I I I sat here on Like I said Labor

Day weekend, I think it was Friday or Saturday

You know fourth fifth or sixth of September and

I The first three issues are 199 on comicsology

.com Bought all three of them. I'm like, oh,

okay So there's gonna be a fourth issue and then

I saw a year I saw somebody tweet to you about

receiving one of your prizes for the The the

prince for long distance and I'm like, oh, I

know you know I was like, oh, I want one of those

and I said something else about it and I couldn't

I can't remember off top my head. So I Think

it was I had oh you had said you You had replied

to me. Oh, well, you know, you'll find out You

know how to win one if you look in the you know,

you'll look in the comic and whatever else Well,

the information about that's the information

about that stuff is not in the digital No, no,

it's not it's it's a secret contest if you can

figure out how to enter it you win So yeah, there's

no explanation of how to enter the contest Yes.

So I'm sitting here and sitting here and I'm

like, oh, okay, so there's gonna be a fourth

issue, which actually just released this past

Wednesday before we recorded this interview.

And I'm like, oh, so that means there's gonna

be more issues as it goes along. And you said,

oh, no, it's done. And I'm like, oh, man, because

I just... As of this recording, I'm still in

the middle of my write -up of the series from

long distance and... I've read the first three

issues like six times in less than a week Because

I want to be able to make sure I can reference

stuff and keep the story going You know how I'm

writing it is I'm telling my like someone who

comes onto my site and reads the review I'm telling

them what's going on in the book and then I'm

making comments of how I think your art or your

writing is doing on that like Okay issue two

At the end of issue two of long distance and

there's spoilers here people but that issues

been out for a while so the end of issue two

we get to a point where Carter and Lee the two

main characters They're they've overslept again

and they're about to you know Lee's about to

miss her flight home to Chicago from Carter living

in Columbus and it ends with you know whatever

we do next time let's just try not to be late

and you know deal and then it ends and the issue

three picks up with you know oh we got to get

to the airport and so it's one of those things

where like when I started off the issue because

it's all one big giant review so i started off

the issue and i'm like okay so this is what's

going on and then i put a thought of oh okay

so this is what i think of what is going on um

and i mean long distance people if you're tired

don't get me wrong i know people love superhero

comics i know people love the idw transformers

and turtles comics i love the idw transformers

and turtles comics turtles a little bit more.

But it's one of those things where long distance

is by far the most refreshing comic series I've

read since 2012. It's by far the best. And it's

not just because you're sitting here talking

to me. I've said this on Twitter. I've been tweeting

about this series of yours for a week and a half

now. You know, it's like, you know how you look

on someone's Twitter and they'll, you know, they'll

talk about, Oh, I had this for lunch or I had

this for dinner. Oh, I got to do half of my tweets

in the past seven days as of this interview is

being recorded are probably about long distance.

Wow. When I usually, when I jump into anything

and I really like it, I really jump into it.

So once love and capes was kind of done and you

finished with that portion of your comic career

kind of thing Did you immediately go and say

oh, let's do long How did long distance come

about after doing love and capes? I took a break.

That's a bar for too long a break Started working

on some of the My Little Pony books, which I

still do. I still write them. I had written and

drawn an issue when they first debuted. I did

the Twilight Sparkle issue. And I was picking

up a little bit more comic book work, which was

keeping me busier from doing long distance. And

the Spider -Man episode I wrote, I actually wrote

two years ago to show you what that process is

like. Yeah, it was almost two years ago this

week. So I knew I wanted to do something new

but I wasn't sure exactly what and IDW has a

great group Sorry, that's a wrong wrong intense.

I have a great relationship with IDW They seem

to appreciate me in a way which kind of humbles

me and they want to keep doing things with me

So I gave them pitches for three ideas that I

had and they said that we think you should do

long distance And I said, okay, then I will and

I spent a little too much time getting off the

ground because The the thing that happens is

that it's the first couple pages It's the first

issue that kills you although that actually wasn't

the case so long distance But the first issue

is just so hard and with love and capes every

page of love and capes is designed to have two

jokes on it it's got a it's got an eight panel

grid format every four panels as a joke and I

could and send that out to my friends, who I

call the Secret Society of Super Reviewers, and

they could let me know that I was, hey, this

is really funny, this is going well, I think

you need to do this, where you've got enough

feedback where you figured you were on an okay

path, with long distance, because it's much more

typical comic book structure, and actually the...

The issues are 44 pages because I'm an idiot.

Yeah, I was like, and I'm not complaining here.

I'm not complaining. I was like, wait a second,

issue number four, 499, what the heck? And then

I realized, oh, it's 45 something pages. Wow,

okay. That makes sense. All said and done, it's

about eight normal comic book issues worth of

material. I saw one review that said this could

have been five or six issues and I'm like, I

think I would have died So once you get going

you go pretty well But it's it's it's those first

steps and I am trying to be very very conscious

of not taking quite so long on whatever I do

next there's a point where especially with Deadlines

and doing a stupid number of comic book conventions

and traveling out to LA for weeks and things

like that Was actually drawing four pages a day

of long distance near the end And and that is

an insane pace and the thing that happens though

is that I've got this I've got a five page story

for something that I can't talk about but I got

a five page story I'm working on and I can't

seem to get this thing drawn. I'm like this was

a day and a half to you last week Why is it taking

so long? But it's it's something new and you

figure out different problems in different ways

to tell the story and and that's the that's the

kind of thing that it makes it interesting but

it makes it challenging so and Being a being

a writer artist creator my process isn't isn't

always is the cleanest So I was talking with

a friend. I'm not gonna out her because Actually,

this is gonna sound really arrogant when I say

it, but I apologize for that She was asking me

how I plot it out long distances as compared

to how she works on her book, where she would

go to a coffee shop and write a script. And I'm

like, yeah, I just pretty well start on page

one and then I keep going. And then I end it

and then I do another book. Some of it is that

I have been reading comics for so long that I

think in 22 to 44 page increments. I've also

noticed that when I write scripts, I can bring

them in with a couple of pages of what they need

to be, because apparently my brain just thinks

in 44 -minute dramatic increments. But yeah,

I write my books mostly on Post -it notes. So

it's enough for me to know what's going on and

to break down the pages. And I always know how

the issue is going to end. I always knew how

every issue of long distance was going to end

and a big problem for me was coming up with ending

for the last issue. We can talk about that more

later. But once I have those kind of benchmarks,

then I figure out how to tell the story as I'm

going. It helps keep it fresh to me because I'm

worried that if I write a full script for myself

I will be far less interested in drawing it because

I've I've locked things down now and create our

own books as opposed to stuff I do for Hasbro

Where that's had to be approved so I can't deviate

from the script that much Right here I can say

oh hey I'm gonna throw this scene in because

I didn't realize I needed it, but the story really

needs it And there's nobody there's nobody to

question my editor at IDW can question me, but

he didn't question much so but I Go ahead Well,

I was gonna say that I don't think that I've

talked to several comic writers over the years

and At least the two years two or three years

to pull bags been around I don't think anyone

has ever said that they use Post -It notes for

for scripting. That's kind of cool. You know,

it came about from it came about from Love and

Capes where there's two jokes on a page. So and

I'm you know, I trained as an artist, so I just

think visually and I put the Post -It notes up

and I can look, you know, page by page. I'll

put 24 to 48 Post -It notes up because Love and

Capes was 24 pages and there are two jokes. I

would write it, you know the jokes I have for

the end in the middle and it made it really easy

to move things around Like oh this dark blade

scene needs to happen a little bit earlier so

I can make this scene happen here some of the

horrible to myself and I'll write things like

something funny happens here Which is nowhere

near as as much of a help as you might think

but I was I was putting in jokes like oh have

Because with love and capes there were there

were jokes that were actually just jokes and

meant to be funny And then there were jokes that

further the plot so occasionally you would know

that oh I need to have a scene of them in the

car because I need I need to establish how they're

getting from point A to point B So you need to

put a joke in the car I don't know what that

joke is, but that's where that joke has to take

place so that's what the that's what the post

-it note was telling me and on mostly on the

last issue of long distance I had you know, I

had every page plotted out and and I had vaguely

what happened on each page and it was just a

it was just a pacing thing plus there uh there's

a double page spread at the end of long distance

and it mean it meant that I I couldn't move that

more than two pages at a time because it has

to fall on the right space to hit a double page

spread so there could only be there could only

be an odd number of pages before that because

if I put one more page in the double page spread

suddenly wraps around the page and that's not

gonna work so it it allowed me to move things

around visually to make sure that everything

happened when it was supposed to and that I had

enough pages and you know that I wasn't sometimes

scenes go on longer than I think they are going

to so it it helps me keep focused on what stuff

has to happen and what stuff isn't going to happen

yet and Yeah, it just helps me see the whole

book. Absolutely. You are a graduate of the Joe

Kubert School of Cartoon and Graphic Art. What

was that experience like? You ever hear of Vietnam?

Yeah, the one we lost. It's very much boot camp

for artists. Don't know what Vietnam was like.

I'm not a time traveler nor have I ever been

in the military, but it I Very much enjoyed going.

I am very very glad that I went I had a epiphany

a few years ago where actually and it clarified

just in the last year Joe taught us how to do

everything and there's a point where you think

that is the wrong way to go you're like no comic

book editors only want to see that you can draw

they don't want to see that you can Think you

know they can't comprehend all that say you know

Joe made sure we could do everything. He trained

us to be Will Eisner and I've always appreciated

the education. I currently really appreciate

that kind of mindset because it allows me to

do things like long distance and loving capes

where my coloring is good. It's not great, but

it's better than, it's probably about average,

but it also means that I don't have to pay a

colorist. I don't have to pay a letterer. I don't

have to pay an artist. When I get a stupid idea

to do something, I don't have to convince anyone

else. It gives me a kind of creative freedom

that a lot of people don't have, where if you

are a comic book writer with no art skills, you

have to find someone to work with. And finding

that person can be very difficult, as opposed

to me, where I'm like, oh, well, I'm pretty sure

I'm not going to run away and not finish this

book without letting me know. So, you know, I

keep really good tabs on my artist and and being

an artist writer It's a it's a weird relationship

Sometimes it is very important to me that I don't

write scenes that I want to draw or don't want

to draw The scene has to be the scene and then

you draw the scene that has to be so like I told

you I was on a deadline crunch on the last issue

and I Came back from some convention. I'm like,

all right. What page is up today? Oh, they're

at a wedding. It's nothing but crowds. Awesome.

But I didn't, I never changed it. There was no

point where the artists who didn't want to draw

a crowd scene got to say, Hey, I don't want to

draw a crowd scene. It was this is the scene

that has to be written. It has to take place

here and these things have to happen. So do the

scene that's written. So I like having that conflict

between those two sides of the creative coin,

but I like knowing that neither one of them gets

to win all the time. The story should be. Oh,

absolutely. And after all, no one likes drawing

desks. Yes. I tweeted about that, and I didn't

actually realize it when I did it, but there's

a scene that takes place in a school where Carter

does a career day, and I managed to do it without

drawing any desks. But if I don't point it out

to you, you don't realize that there are no desks

in this scene But there are no desks in the scene

and that made it go a little faster So with the

oh I know what it was From your bio on your website,

I'm stealing this you're figure out who the hell

Charles Dorn is That's the $50 ,000 question

right there. It was the $64 ,000 question. So

folks, right before we started the interview,

I'm like... Where can I go to find out more about

this guy before I actually talk to him? Because

even though I've read, you know, your long -distance

series and I've just started loving capes, I

still didn't know a hell of a lot more about

you and I didn't want to come into this blind.

So I'm like, I go to Google and I'm like, okay,

comic book or comic vine, comic book DB, oh,

his own website, duh, that would probably have

something about him, you know? And I'm reading

and I'm reading and I'm like... His art was in

ads for prilosec. Okay, and he was on who wants

to be a millionaire Soon I saw that I went I

went to YouTube immediately couldn't find it

All right, so I know we're talking about comics

is a comic show But I have to ask because I don't

remember when this episode was so you'll have

to tell me Which version of millionaire were

you on and what was that experience like? It

was the first version of the merit first season

of the Meredith the area show Okay, which for

my money if you're gonna be on the show is the

perfect show to be on because there's no fastest

thing here So it meant if you've got a call to

be on the show you were gonna get questions and

that was awesome They still paid for everything.

So they they brought me out. They put me up They

gave me a per diem Then you know they did it

for the entire entire length of the trip. We

recorded it in November of 2002 and then and

it aired in April of 2003 Because that's when

you get your money you know the money comes 30

days after the episode airs and It was it was

an awesome terrifying experience I was very much

playing for 32. I figured that was a respectable

number You know you live in fear of going out

dumb Yeah, and there are people and it's it's

harder than people think because when When you're

on the show There was some guy in front of me

who he got a question about which of these is

not a sacrament in the Catholic Church And he

50 -50 did and he stared at the question for

so long that he didn't See the negative anymore.

So he answered the wrong question He he had the

right answer, but he answered which one was a

sacrament which one wasn't So you're terrified

you're terrified of screwing up like that my

my 64 thousand other question was Charles Goran

quit his law practice in the 30s become an expert

in this poker bridge billiards or golf and It's

bridge. He wrote the Goran on bridge column,

which I did not know my My lifeline line that

I called was supposed to be on the internet And

it was a little slow to get on and he said I

think it's bridge But I'm not sure I thought

it was poker because I thought he was like Gabe

Kaplan And I figured that if I'm going out on

a guess, I'm going to go out on mine somebody

else's. So that's what happened. But there's

a guy too after me who went farther. And we figure

that you don't get your own individual set of

15 questions because then the guy who's writing

the million dollar questions really took off

at his work never get seen. It's just you get

the next part off the stack. So if I had gotten

his questions, I could have gotten to where he

got to 125. Yeah, but I don't know that it would

have been smart enough to stop like he was because

there's a point where if you have three questions

you have a 1 in 64 shot of winning a million

dollars it's just based on dumb luck and how

do you not take that because there are people

who said oh man what was it like to lose $32

,000 on TV and I'm like wait a second I won $32

,000 on national TV on a full expense paid trip

to New York talking to Meredith Vieira. How was

your November 8th? It just depends on how you

look at it. But my $32 ,000 question was, what

comic strip created City Hawkins Day? And I can

tell you on what page of what book I know that

answer from. And you get that question, and you

go terrified. Because you can't go out on a comic

question. You will never live that down, Tom

Sawyer. You cannot go out on a comic question.

And I visibly relax after that. It's funny to

me because they always have to have more contestants.

So they always bring in a new group every time.

And the day that I was on, the people who were

new, because they have closed circuits, they

run the feed from the show in the contestant

green room. And it's terrifying because you don't

actually know when the next episode is going

to start. I still tense up when I hear the millionaire

music. And yeah, it's its own particular form

of torture. And you don't know when you're gonna

go on. You know who's in the chair, you know

who's in the wings, and you know the next person

they're gonna call out of the room. But you don't

know, you know, there's 12 of you in the group.

You don't know if you're number six or number

eight. There are lots of laws about being on

a game show. And so I, you know, I was just nervous

about the entire thing. And the people who are

new in our group, Watched it watched me on TV

and I said, oh man. He is so calm How is he doing

this and the people who knew me he said you don't

understand he should be making jokes right now

He is terrified, which is pretty accurate. I

would having done it once I would love to do

it again I mean, it's one of things that that

benefits from a lot of you know, a lot of hindsight

Although ironically there used to be a millionaire

game at Disney World, which I accidentally won

or I accidentally got picked for because I have

a friend who said that, oh, I could have gotten

farther than you on millionaire. I'm like, no,

you couldn't. And he said, what do you mean?

I said, you didn't try out. That was part of

it. So I wanted him to he and I they do this

fastest finger thing and I wanted him to get

called just because I wanted him to go Through

it, you know, even even in a small way and I

want to get being called and then I went out

I went out on the $32 ,000 question and and left

with like a thousand or a thousand points and

some Disney pin prizes So if I had it if I had

to go out Badly I'd much rather do it at the

Disney World version where the best you're gonna

win is a cruise as opposed to the you know millionaire

version Because I wound up you know the the money

I won on the show was a down payment on my house

Yeah, no when I read that on the bio I'm like

oh man now I have to make the Ken Jennings joke

because he went out He went out on on FedEx when

the answer was H &R block I think the question

was what company works the longest or the hardest

for four months out of the year. I think that's

what the Jeopardy question was. I remember the

answer being H &R Block, but he had written FedEx.

I'm like, oh, dude. You know, there's stuff that

makes sense in your head. Yeah, that's true.

Alright, so long distance it's four issue mini

series from IDW publishing Where did you get

the Tell us about the genesis of the series like

I know you mentioned earlier that you had written

it out before you had done Is what the comic

became what you original the story you originally

wrote when you did the pitch? kind of So in 2003

some some 12 years ago, I got involved in a long

-distance relationship and It ended not long

It ended a couple months before I wrote the pilot

because it was a it was a way of getting some

things out there were a lot of things about that

relationship which I still think were pretty

good and The story in particular of what happened.

I thought was interesting. So I changed a bunch

of details But the first version the sitcom pitch

is very autobiographical. It's probably too autobiographical.

And my thought was in doing it as, yeah, and

my thought, because he is straight up a cartoonist

in that one. But my thought in doing it as a

sitcom was that eventually at the end of seven

years, they would find a place to get, you know,

the idea, so I'm going to have to spoil a lot

if I keep talking about this. uh so we're gonna

keep talking about this give people a chance

to run away or okay all right all right all right

here here's what we'll do because i've never

done this in the interview before we're going

to take a quick break give you guys a chance

to get ready because tom is going to spoil the

hell out of long distance we'll be back after

this hey this is thompson thaler creator of long

distance and you are listening to the pullback

Lois, I'm home. I had a train derailment in Canada,

an orphanage fire in London, and a dam broke

in India. Did you miss something for dinner?

Oh my gosh! What happened? Lex Luthor. The rat.

Where's Lois? She was here just a second ago.

Probably scared witless, poor thing. Don't worry.

I'll have you out of that thing in no time. Okay,

let's see now. Do I disconnect the black wire

or the white one? Don't worry, I'll save you.

What do you think? Oh, no. What do I think? Lois,

I think you got some splaining to do. Clarky,

if we're gonna be partners and we're gonna be

married, I want to be part of the act. Lois.

There are things I do. You can do. Me superman.

Me superwife. Us super in trouble. Could you

hold this argument till later and get us out

of here? I knew this was gonna happen first you

know who I am. And we're back, and Tom is going

for $64 ,000. No, sorry. Alright, so you have

been significantly warned, everybody. Tom is

about to spoil the heck out of long distance.

Take it away, sir. Alright, so the idea that

happens in the big double -page spread, the idea

that these two people chase themselves around

the country for a good seven years, that was

always the plan for the book. because the thing

that bothers me about a lot of romantic comedies

on TV is first of all they make it will there

won't they which if you don't do it right and

so far the only show I've seen that really did

it right was Castle if you don't have a really

strong plan for what to do after they get together

you're you're gonna be floundering so long distance

is never about are they going to get together

it's about how do they get together and famously

on Friends Ross is making a list of flaws in

Jennifer Aniston So that he can figure out who

he wants to go out with and he writes that on

fat ankles which ain't in any way true and she

finds the list and it's this very contrived sitcom

reason to break these people up and like but

there are Actually good if you're going to do

this there are actually good ways to break them

up. You don't have to write it as dumb so with

them living in separate cities I have a built

-in reason why they're apart. And then I figured

that their jobs were both such that eventually

one of them would move and then the other one

would get a job that they have to move for. And

while they both love each other, they both love

their careers. So it's that conflict which keeps

them moving around. The big ending, though, that

happens where you find out that he doesn't have

a long -distance relationship. He has a long

-distance life. That came about with the comic.

It was actually my friend Tony Feliz who, we

were talking about it I think last year at New

York Comic Con and he says, your ending has to

be big. It has to be, it can't just be that they

get together in a place. There's gotta be some

unique solution. And I really thought about it

and that was the, I think that was the big thing

that turned me on it and finally had me, it's

what gave me the structure of the comic book.

Because unlike, Unlike the pilot, the comic book

has that framing sequence. The pilot actually

starts out in the airport. The comic book starts

out in the airport with Carter talking about

this relationship that he may or may not be in.

And it is very clearly written to be very ambiguous

that you don't know if the relationship is over

or not. It specifically takes place in Chicago

so that He could be coming from the relationship

just ending, he may be passing through on his

way to somewhere else, but it's designed to give

you that overwhelming sense of dread that this

is not going to work out well, or that it might

not work out well. And then the reveal is that

the two of them just decided to steer into the

curve, steer into the skid and just keep moving

around with each other. Once I had that, I'm

like, OK, this is how it happens. Then this happens

in the first issue. This happens in the second

issue. Things start to go south in the third

issue. And then they have to make this decision

in the fourth issue. So that's what gave me the

structure for it. Awesome. As I was reading through

my multiple readings of the first three issues,

what I noticed, and this is probably my own.

perception on the series, so take it with a great

assault. I'm like, oh my god, this is office

space meets chasing Amy. Really? Okay. Well,

because between the two of them, he has his own

ad agency with his buddy Tim, and she works in

a dungeon. She's a rocket scientist, for those

that don't know. She works in a dungeon of some

university or something or other, and I'm like,

oh man, if we only had a copier scene. If we

only had a copier scene. Go ahead. I hadn't thought

of that. Because the two things that informed

what happened with those characters is one, I

did spend a lot of time working at the agency

before I went freelance. And there's one point

where I was talking with my buddy Mike, and it

was when I was starting to figure out that I

wanted to leave the job and go off on my own.

And he and I and his wife were talking, and this

idea popped in my head that I could take him

with me, that we could start our own agency and

be independent. And I could get to work with

him, and it would be awesome. And we wound up

not doing it, and I don't think I ever mentioned

it. It was just an idea in my head. I'm glad

it never happened because the career that I have

is much different than a career where I'm dealing

with multiple people who are depending on me

to bring in more revenue, things like that. But

I wanted to take that idea of two friends running

a business and use it to tie Carter to Columbus.

Because to me, that's an interesting conflict

that is not in the original pilot. In the original

pilot, he's straight up a cartoonist like I am,

and he can live wherever he wants if he wants

to. Here, there's very much this idea that I

can't leave my best friend. He's got a kid, he's

got another one on the way. I can't abandon him.

And that gives a really, really firm reason to

keep Carter in Columbus. And the same way with

Lee in the original pilot, she's a model. who's

got a day job. But in the new version, I wanted

to give her a better career. I wanted to give

her a career that I could write things about,

and that was a little... Sexist is the wrong

word, but I wanted to pick an interesting career.

And I decided on rocket sciences because NASA

is affiliated with Fermilabs, I think, out in

Chicago, and I thought that would be really interesting.

And I have a friend. Her name is Lisa. I know

her through Twitter and through some mutual friends.

And she was my reference point. And I said, hey,

because mostly I figured that I would give Lee

this job where she had a friend that she could

talk to. And what she was doing science -wise

wasn't so much as important as that she was in

an office with somebody else and could do things.

when Lisa started telling me what her career

would be like, because initially the question

came about, I don't know what her office looks

like. How many lab coats kind of thing? What

does her office look like? What do I have to

draw? What would she be doing as she's talking

to her friend about other things? And the way

she described it created such a world for me

that it was almost impossible not to write about

it. Because for what Lisa post -doctorate candidate

and for what she's doing, she would have a crappy

office, be working for a professor who might

not necessarily appreciate her. She'd be working

with people who she has authority over but can't

actually get to do anything. And it's a job that

renews like every two or three years and you're

always looking for more grants and you're always

looking for like the next place that's going

to hire you. And once I had that, the idea that

I had this built -in thing where she has one

career path in mind, and then she gets to have

a chance to have a much better one, but it means

moving. I just thought that was great. And it

gave me visual contrast between Carter and Tim's

office, which in my head is... Uh, you know,

Michael Douglas's office from disclosure, because

that's just the Seattle hardwood office with

brick and the walls. Um, it gave Lee this, you

know, this really tank dungy office, but it was,

you know, it was so much fun to play with. There

was, you know, make jokes about it being too

cold or too hot. And, you know, I put a couple

of standpipes right in the middle of her office

for no reason whatsoever, because it just, that's

how, that's how horrible her world is right now.

And see the funny thing is again this goes back

to my perception of the mashup that I mentioned

earlier I know Carter and Tim's office is really

really nice. And when I first was reading through

the book, I'm like, wow This is kind of like

holding a bank. He's placed in New Jersey You

know, it's just one of those things and so as

I'm going through and reading the series I'm

like I'm wondering, you know, okay, so their

first and second date, the first date is he goes

to Chicago, second date is she comes to Columbus.

And throughout that entire time, I saw so many

points, because at one point or another in my

previous life, I've been on a long distance relationship

myself, there were so many points in between

the first and second date where I'm like, oh

crap, he's gonna throw something in that's just

gonna ruin everything. Between the two of them

and you didn't you This is by ladies and gentlemen,

I actually say this in my written review Anyone

wants a guide to dating do not go out and get

a book, you know dating for dummies get this

series because You basically show all the positives

of the relationship and then when you do mix

in You know the happenstances like there's there's

You'll have to remind me. I think it's I think

it's issue three where Tim calls him and Says

oh, yeah, we need to redo that entire catalog.

Oh, no, that's gonna be an issue, too Okay, it's

the it's I've read it so much as running all

together But yeah, it's the end of issue two

where Tim calls Carter and says oh, yeah, by

the way while Monica did do it good job the client

isn't exactly happy with the job that she did

so we need this by monday and i'm like okay so

this is this is that moment where this one hiccup

is going to basically ruin their entire relationship

and it doesn't you pull it the other way and

you make it more of a positive sure lee isn't

happy that carter has to work for the next 22

hours but just the way that it's the way that

you've done this man is just so great it really

is thank you it comes from part of my theory

about relationships it it doesn't work this way

but i think there's one yeah no i guess in in

the good ones it comes pretty close one is that

and and i have said this to people i said look

i'm not trying to piss you off You should have

that as a baseline So if I do something that

annoys you if I do something that that you you

know rubs you the wrong way Don't in any way

assume that I meant for that to happen I'm probably

being an idiot and if you tell me I will probably

fix it because I haven't thought of this there

There's no point in in a relationship where you

say I want the person with me to be unhappy That

doesn't work. You're going in the other way the

other thing is that there should be some sort

of bank for all the things that you do and and

there is a little bit but it's hard in the moment

to to appreciate that where you know there when

you do something that that irritates or offends

your partner I would like them to go oh but they

did bring me coffee every morning for a week

and they went out and got dinner and then they

did this other thing where there's enough of

a bank of good things going where you go, oh,

the one negative, this is an aberration. This

isn't consistent. And there seems to be in a

lot of romantic comedies a hair trigger where...

It's a situation where Carter can't get out of

it. And he very clearly explains why he's in

the situation and why he's going to make the

choice he's going to make. And it's a well reasoned

logical argument. He's saying, look, this client

is like 30, 40 % of our business. I know what

stuff he wants. I understand his design aesthetic.

I'm the only one who can do this. And I have

to do this because I employ like 10 people and

I can't lose 30 % of my business. No matter how

mad you are that your date has gone horribly

wrong. You can't argue with that math so in Lee

being being a scientist and Just being think

a smart and good person because I wanted to write,

you know to two people who are good for each

other and and nice people She recognizes it.

She's not she's no way happy about it but you

know, she she knows that that she respects that

decision because she's very capable of putting

herself in a similar situation and knowing that

if that had happened, you know, at her job, and

he had been out there that she would probably

make the same choice. And then later, her flight

gets changed, which cuts even more time off their

trip. And Carter reacts kind of the same way

he doesn't, you know, it's not her fault that

the airline changed the flight. So there's no

reason, there's no reason to get mad at the other

person, you have to appreciate the time you got

with them. and then figure out what to do next.

And, you know, there's a lot of apologizing that

goes on between the two of them for that kind

of stuff. But, you know, it's not, you're not

apologizing because you did something wrong.

You're apologizing because you've lost time that

you meant to have and you want that person to

know that you wanted it and that you appreciated

it. Right. Absolutely. you know they always say

that oh well relationships are nothing like what

they show in the movies and that is pretty much

true because I don't care how many people like

frozen or loved frozen I love it first I don't

even want to get into that it's a whole negative

thing for me but the whole love at first sight

thing i somewhat believe in it but i am sorry

they went way too fast in that movie anyway um

the thing thing with long distance is it feels

like these two have been together forever how

what is the time okay from the from the the first

meeting to the first date to the second date

until the end what is the timeline there because

after the first date it Between the first and

the second date. It's about I think I said in

the review it's about Three weekends because

there was the weekend. He flew out there was

the weekend She couldn't make it and then the

weekend that she did make it. So I said that

it's somewhere right under a month that the relationship

has taken place but over the entire story how

Minus the the map at the end but like the beginning

of their relationship. What is the timeline there?

So I played I played fast and loose with this.

I completely admit this. And it's it's because

of the nature of how they get together and stories

they didn't want to tell. So they are together

for almost a year by the time that they go to

that wedding. The third issue has a lot of montages

and when he is when Carter is telling the story,

he references that They spend a lot of time with

each other, but he doesn't necessarily go into

every trip. The thing that happens is there's

a snowstorm that snows them in at the airport,

which means that it's got to take place in a

winter month. The problem with setting it in

winter winter is that you have Thanksgiving and

Christmas and New Year's and Valentine's day.

And I didn't want to do any of those because

I didn't, I wanted the story to be more about

what they do. on a regular date rather than what

they do on a holiday and a lot of the holidays

I covered in love and capes I kind of felt like

I had done that part of the story so it's not

that they didn't have Christmas it's not that

they didn't figure out some way to get together

for Valentine's Day it's just that I didn't that

part of the story wasn't interesting to me so

just from the weather the fact that the the kids

in college are you know starting to certain Sunday

at the college that they're at, you know, you

can put that in late May, early June, and then

the wedding is probably a month after that. So

there's a time is all based on whether I think

I didn't give you a lot of other things. And

I wanted to leave this kind of I didn't want

to do an actual like, I think I do. I did do

a montage at one point, but it is just like the

implication that they've gotten together more

than we're seeing that their middle is a lot

longer. Right? How How it's done in the book,

people, and first of all, we're an hour or so

something into this interview. If you haven't

stopped the interview and gone and looked at

the series, do so now. How you tell it in the

book through the letters and through some of

the bubbles is, like when they have the first

date or the second date, or when they're talking

on the phone. I think one of the talking on the

phone scenes was in between the first and second

date and it ended up being a three -hour conversation.

That's between where they meet in the airport

and before he decides to go out there for the

first time. Okay, so it's between the initial

meeting and the first date. So you're on the

phone for three hours and the way the panels

run, if I'm remembering this correctly, is you

say something like, okay, later. and then like

two or three panels later, you're like more later.

I like that you don't specifically say, hey,

this is Monday at blah, blah, blah. What this

again reminds me of, and I'm gonna put my own

influence on it or my own reference on it here

is, you ever seen that John Cusack, Kate Beckinsale

movie, Serendipity? Oh yeah, yeah. That's exactly

what this reminds me of because I remember when

I originally had the DVD when that movie came

out, oh god, years and years ago. I think there's

a commentary on it or not, or it might have been

a special feature. One of the producers or director

or whatever of the film said, oh, well, when

we originally put the screenplay together, it

was going to be, you know, this is 10 years and

then now it's 10 years later, where instead of

that, they say, oh, well, This is then and this

is, you know, instead of giving it an actual

time, they give you a sense of time without saying,

Hey, this is 10 years before and 10 years after.

And that's exactly what you're doing, which it's

just such a refreshing storytelling point. It

really is. And some of it in terms of the conversation

is I was very conscious of the fact that I'm

doing a comic book about people talking. Yeah.

Visually, that can get really old, really fast.

There's a lot of things I tried to do. I didn't

give people too many big Aaron Sorkin monologues.

I think you just have to be aware of that. Some

of the cuts in the big three -hour conversation

is you don't want to read a three -hour conversation.

Also, you get in the context of what you see,

You know that they've been on the phone forever,

and you know that they're talking really easy,

and they're not having hangups, and they just

keep going. And it still gets the point across

without necessarily wasting another five pages

on two people talking on phones. Before we kind

of wrap this up and get what's going on in the

future for you, for what you can talk about,

let's talk about the colors in this series. Man,

you use color so well. No, well, yeah, okay.

As they go along, as they go along, it's green

and orange. But in the beginning, and I think

this is because ever since I was a kid, my two

favorite colors are black and purple. Don't ask

me why. I don't know. Don't ask. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, I'm probably two steps away from

becoming a super villain just like Sheldon Cooper,

but who knows So in the very beginning of the

first issue we have the airport scene in New

York City and It's all purple white and some

black or sun it it's mostly purple and white

and I'm like, wow, I've just never seen an artist

do you know colors so well like this and in this

type of just the way your style is of how you

draw the characters and and then the stupid bat

kid comes up like oh no this can't be good like

wow what a way to meet you know what a way to

meet a woman you know have bat kid take you out

that was hilarious but um had you intentionally

put Like the purple is for New York the the green

is for Carter and Columbus the orange is for

Lee in Chicago Was that intentional when you

first started or did that just kind of is that

what happened I? Knew that Chicago was gonna

be orange and Columbus was gonna be green because

I needed two colors that I knew would work together

well on the page because while the color tones

change and what they are is they're duo tones.

So I picked a color and then I can mix black

in with it to get a bunch of different shades.

And then there's a second color layer that's

just the color. So you get more pure but more

muted colors which show up much more in the background.

I wanted two colors that would play well together

because there are scenes in the middle of a page

where the color palette will change, indicating

where characters are. And since I knew I had

those two colors picked out, I needed a color

for New York. I wanted something cold since I

set it in the winter. I thought purple was a

good choice because it was visually very different

than anything else. And it sets up really quickly

the idea that, hey, these color palettes are

going to change. And there might actually be

a reason behind it. I may have thought this through.

So. And there's actually all sorts of weird rules

I had to come up with. So characters, all the

word balloons are outlined in the impact color,

whatever color I've decided that the place they're

at is. So in Las Vegas, it's yellow. I think

Michigan is a deep blue at one point, because

that scene is really small. But the idea is that

wherever you speak, you pick up the color of

your location. But when you're on the phone your

phone is in the color of where it's registered

Mm -hmm, so Carter's phone being in Columbus

is always green Because the first time he went

to Chicago and the two of them were texting I'm

like visually it doesn't make any sense to give

him a green balloon when he's in another city

But it was very I wanted to have that that shorthand

of here's his text his texts are in green because

his phone is registered in 614 area code so it

was figuring out stuff like that and you know

when colors would change and what things would

be in different colors and You know what things

don't change But just it became a it very much

gives us a sense of place and that's that's what

I was going for It kind of came about somebody

showed me a book that I think every chapter was

in a different color scheme And I remember looking

at going hey that that might be a really cool

way to do long distance And honestly when I did

it I was afraid it would be it would be a little

too gimmicky a little too, you know, a little

too, hey, look at me, I'm being clever. And I

think that judging by the reaction and how well

people liked it, I think I really nailed that

one. It achieved exactly the effect I wanted.

And the other thing that I really like about

it is I think part of what I try to do every

time I do a new project is I attempt to figure

out a new way, a new way to handle a situation.

So, Long distance has much more comic book format.

It doesn't, it doesn't rely on the eight page

grid that Love and Capes did. Uh, and there are

other, you know, changing the way the colors

are done. That was important. It was a different

way of handling it. There's, there's actually,

Love and Capes has a tremendous number of background

jokes that as I was working on the book, I would

throw in to keep me awake as I was working. And

I very much didn't want to do that with long

distance. And it's like when the Pixar guys were

doing, um, the bloopers at the end of their films.

They did it for the first two, and then they

didn't do it again because they said, we don't

want that to become our thing. We might do interesting

things after the credits or in the credits, but

we're not going to just, we're not going to fall

back on this crutch of always doing this blooper

reel. In the same way, I didn't want to fall

back on the crutch of, hey, it's a... This you

know, dr. Who is showing up in the background

and and hey look at the the funny name He gave

that that restaurant, you know, I I wanted to

get rid of some of that stuff and Kind of work

a little purer. In fact in in loving kids every

time they're on a computer It's a screenshot

of a real computer in long distance. It's it's

it's almost geometric Just it says it's set of

shapes to get across the idea that they're on

a computer. There's one scene where You actually

need to be able to read what's on it and I put

in in real text and there actually I fell back

and I put a couple of jet books in that one.

When Lee gets the email, if you look, I think

there's an email about the Loving Capes TV show

coming out and then a couple other like Kickstarter

for an Ed DVD set because I would very much like

to see that. Things like that where... You know,

I needed to put a little bit more in it But it's

the one it's a little simpler and a little more

basic because I wasn't wasn't trying to hit the

level of complexity For the visuals that I did

on love tapes Long distance it just it just seems

like Just like their relationship at the beginning

was so effortless. It just seems like You've

done these four issues so effortlessly, yet I

know there's a whole lot of work that goes into

putting something like this together. Oh, yeah.

The interesting thing here with long distance

is, as I mentioned earlier, there's so many points

in their relationship leading up to the end where

you could have put my god this happened or oh

my god that happened or and some you did some

you didn't but what's interesting to me is that

they they just you know what like you said they

can't be mad at each other they can be upset

about the situation like with him having to work

for you know you know that one weekend or whatever

else but man it is just so refreshing to read

a comic like this we need more long distance

I'll try to do more I I'm hoping you know, so

there have been two books that have come out

that that the the precious little snowflake part

of me Is disappointed that I I didn't know about

ahead of time Because first of all DC announced

they're doing Superman Wonder Woman and like

I write love in capes What do I have to get noticed

by you and then Marvel just recently did a secret

love part of their secret wars thing I'm like

for crying out loud What do I have to do? To

get a call I could have written one of these

I haven't read Like I said the beginning of the

interview. I'm just now getting into loving capes

In my initial thoughts of it are and I don't

know if this is how you planned it when did Well,

because I don't have the information in front

of me. Sorry, folks. When did Love and Capes

initially come out? 2006, I think. So that was

after The Incredibles, right? Because I swear,

there's so many... As I'm reading this, I'm like

on the first four or five pages of Love and Capes

Volume 1, folks, and I'm like, wow, this is pretty

much Incredibles before they had kids. No Incredibles

was it was a big influence on just that general

style and Darwin cook style in fact Some people

tag the Crusader as looking like me because I

am also tall with brown hair Reason the Crusader

has brown hair is if I gave him blonde hair.

He looked too much like Mr. Incredible And I

didn't want to give him black hair because then

he looks like Superman and that's a little too

obvious. Yeah, I didn't For a bunch of reasons,

I didn't want to do another red haired character

for Abby. And I couldn't give her brown hair

if he had brown hair because I wanted the visual

difference between it. So she wanted becoming

a blonde and he was brunette, specifically because

those were the limitations I imposed on myself.

But yeah, when the Crusader, if you've got the

trade, there is a reproduction of the demo page

that I did. Which was it was me doing one page

of loving capes trying to figure out the style

and how it's gonna handle things and it is is

very different It's still got the eight panel

grid and it's basically the joke you probably

haven't gotten there yet where They're on the

couch and it's early in the relationship and

she starts asking what his weaknesses and he's

like, why do you? So that was the scene that

I set up and then eventually, yeah, and there's

actually, there'll be a long distance trade at

some point. There's a demo page that I did for

that, which is, it's just like the proof of concept

and this is what it's going to look like. It's

me figuring out what fonts to use and what style

to use and how to design it and how to build

it so that it looks, so that it's going to be

what I want, what I want to do. Absolutely. Awesome.

Alright, well, I would like to thank Mr. Zoller

for taking the time to chat with me here in this

interview inside the pullback on the Ecast Radio

Network. Make your greatest game into comics

and we will catch you next time, folks. You're

still here? It's over. Go home. Alright folks

I meant to mention in the interview with Tom

Zoller that You know he mentioned his my little

pony work, and I didn't get a chance to ask you

too much about that But there's a reason that

I didn't ask you about your my little pony work

is because here inside the pull bag Coming up

in February 2016 We're gonna do fiend ship is

friendship February I don't know, because I don't,

again, don't have information in front of me.

Did you write any of the Fiendship five issue

series? I did not. I wrote two of Friends Forever

and I did the two -parter of Friendship is Magic

that brought back Flutterbat. Okay. So people,

you're getting an advanced notice of what's going

to happen here inside the pull bag in February

2016. As I said, it's going to be Fiendship is

Friendship February. We're going to have four

podcasts. We're going to talk about My Little

Pony Tales Volumes 1 and 2. We're going to talk

about the five -issue mini -series, Fiendship

is Magic, where they talk about the villain,

where they do all the villains. And then in one

show, we're going to review Friendship is Magic

and Friends Forever, Volume 1. And we'll probably

do some sort of Friendship is Magic February

each year that the podcast goes on, if it goes

on and on and on. So who knows? Alright folks,

make your greatest game in the comics and we

will catch you next time!