Interviews – Thom Zahler – Long Distance The Travel Miles Club Edition!

Hi, I'm comic creator Tom Zoller, and you are

listening to the Geekcast Radio Network. Honey,

it was a dream! Boy, I'm glad I shared that!

Hi, I'm comic creator Tom Zoller, and you are

listening to The Pull Bag. You've just jumped

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so much more. It's all inside the pull bag here

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ado, it's time to talk about the comics we're

reading right now, here inside the pull bag.

Hello and welcome to the 578th episode of The

Pull Bag. I'm your host, Steve, Drew, and Mike,

and today is a special interview. Now, this is

not normally what the plan was going to be, but

since my good buddy in comic reading with the

TMNT from IDW Publishing, Joe Reed, can't find

his comics, unfortunately, or can't... It's a

whole thing, folks. but the turtles comics will

return and we also have a gi joe special missions

episode that was already pre -recorded but uh

today folks because out of the blue somebody

messaged me and said shh don't share this yet

and i'm like if that's what i think it is you're

about to give me a heart attack holy crap today

i welcome back for the first time since 2017

let me make sure i get this right because it's

funny folks because 10 years ago in 2015, I remember

this without even looking at the website, even

though I have both interviews pulled up. September

12th of 2015 was the first time I got to interview

this person. And then sometime in August of 2017

is when he gave us his warning label. Oh boy.

So basically this new interview X number of years

later is falling between all of that. But yeah,

you know him. You love him. I welcome back cartoonist,

writer, artist, all -around awesome guy, Mr.

Tom Zoller. Hey, how you doing? Yeah, I'm surviving.

That's... surviving the best I can, I guess.

How have you been, sir? Oh, busy. Yeah, lots

of life stuff. Traveling way too much. Much but

all good. Mm -hmm. Yep, yep. So that's where

this came from. Got it. Uh -huh. Uh -huh. So

most people know Mr. Zahler from such titles

as his work on My Little Pony at IDW Publishing.

And then there are all of his creator -owned

series with Love and Capes and all of the multiple

series that include that whole. Because what

are you on the holiday issues now? The holiday

tales now or something? I saw something on the

website about the holiday episodes. After the

fifth volume, I moved it to Patreon. I did one

during COVID. Then I did a Christmas issue. And

now it kind of survives as like 64 page thick

comic books. It just makes it easier to get a

new one out now and then. Yep. What we're really

here to talk about long distance. Warning label,

as I mentioned, Cupid's Arrows, Time and Vine,

and most recently, the Ghost Whiskerer. Uh -huh.

There are two of them. Oh, there's two of those.

No, no, there are two cats. It's Ghost Whiskerers,

plural. There's only one. Yeah, I said Ghost

Whiskerers. Oh, okay. Maybe I didn't. I don't

know. I don't know. I always end up screwing

things up in these intros. So, yeah. So it's

been 10 years almost to the day when I first

interviewed Tom. And we are here to talk about

long distance. And I have been begging him for

the last 10 years for more long distance. And

here we are all these years later. And look,

folks, more long distance. I can be worn down.

Right. Come on now. I haven't begged you all

that much. Yeah, so long distance then. For those

that don't know, for those who have been living

under a rock, who haven't listened to myself

and our good buddy Jesse W. Jackson from Set

Lusting Bruce and Perfectly Good Podcast and

JKL Media and whatever else other things Jesse

does, tell us, for those that didn't listen to

that first interview that we did 10 years ago.

Remind everybody or maybe reintroduce everyone

to the premise and concept of long distance and

where the idea came from and who Jeremy was.

Oh, OK. So long distance is a comic about a couple

that meet in an airport during a snowstorm and

they hit it off and they decide to date. But

neither one lives near each other. One of them

lives in Ohio. One of them lives in Illinois.

So it's their chronicle trying to figure out

how to make this work. Visually, the comic uses

color to tell the story. So all the scenes that

take place in Columbus have a greenish tint to

them. All the scenes that take place in Chicago

have an orange tint. That way you always know

where the story is happening without me trying

to do a bunch of establishing shots. You can

bounce back and forth and it's really easy to

tell. Every time they go to a different location,

it's a different color. That's kind of the rule

for it. And then they text each other and they

email and all of those different types of telepresence

appear in the book. Because that's one of the

things I've been in more than a few long distance

relationships, probably because I travel so much.

That's how I meet people. And one of those was

kind of the inspiration for for telling this

particular story. And as. time went on originally

this was invented or created as a sitcom pitch

for a tv show called situation comedy that aired

on bravo in like 2003 2004 2004 um and i took

that story and turned it into a comic about 10

years later and the thing that had changed in

those 10 years was texting and voice you know

um voice call or visual calls and um you know,

the FaceTime stuff like that, where it makes

it possible a different degree of telepresence.

And I thought that was really easy, really interesting

to explore because you're apart from somebody,

but you're not completely apart from the person.

Like you're actually still always connected in

a way that previous long distance relationships

weren't. Yeah. So I wanted to try and see what

I could do with that whole reality. Yeah, absolutely.

So the book came as a four -issue. Each issue

is double -sized, so essentially it's an eight

-issue story, if you count classic comic books.

And yeah, it was always, as a sitcom, there's

a point near the end where you find out how the

characters make their relationship work. And

to me, that was always where the other... other

seasons of it as a comic book would take place

or other seasons of it as a TV show. Like I would

explore that there's a double page spread. That

double page spread could have been years worth

of material. Um, but not knowing. How I could

get the book to survive that long at that way,

I'd kind of skip over that part and apply it

there and kind of have it as a proof of concept.

It was one of the reasons it was hard to figure

out how to come back to it because the ending

was very much the ending I was looking for. I

didn't know what else to do with it until I did.

And you asked about Jeremy. The book is dedicated

to my friend Jeremy Dale. He passed away in 2000.

Oh, man. 2014, I think. 2015. I'll blur together.

I'm so sorry, dude. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was

pretty sudden and unexpected. I remember getting

a text from his wife and just being completely

shocked because, you know, he's younger than

me. And, yeah, it was just like this weird confluence

of events that happened. So, yeah, I dedicated

the book to him. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah,

so there's a point in the book, and this is not

a spoiler because this book has been out for

10 years, folks. Go give yourself a copy. But

there's a point in the book where you have, like

you said, this two -page spread where the entire

map opens up and you have various points on the

map of where Carter and Lee, the main characters,

go and to and fro and this, that, and everything

else. little blurbs about each stop and what

what happened and you know the year that was

and that the less said about that the better

and and graham and everything else and all this

and all that and my thinking was oh i can't wait

to read that story 10 years from now and i was

like well because again you you tease it and

it's a good t you know all of those things are

a great tease and maybe there aren't legs on

every one of those stories that are on the map

but when i read it back then and when i the so

before so i read it again right before we did

this the first time i've read it in six years

the last time i read it before this was in 2019

okay i don't know why i read it in 2019 but i

just did it was just one of those things so i'm

just like i need to go back to that i need to

reread long distance again i need something different

and lord if only i knew what was coming after

so yeah i did you know and to this day i still

love the story every bit of it and it is and

will always be one of if not the best romance

comic comic out there oh thank you you're very

kind absolutely So the question now is how many

ideas have you had since 10 years ago till now

that you just haven't done with the series? Oh,

you know, not all that many. Cause anytime I

really think about approaching all the travels

they take in the middle that timing wise would

change. This was a issue I had with love and

capes when I came back to it too, was that if,

if I picked up where I left off, that moment

is frozen in time. And the further I get from

it, the more it becomes a period piece. And I

wasn't as interested in that. It's the kind of

thing that if I came back to it or if it became

a TV show, I would probably approach some things

differently. I mean, the, the, the core story

would remain the same, but I don't know everything

I would have done with the stuff that's implied

that happens. in the, in the intervening years,

I'd, I'd probably change some of that. Those

were all like general ideas, but they were also

kind of sketched out a little bit. Um, probably

they refer to the year of hell and I, I have

a pretty good idea what happened there. Um, but

there, there's also, there's a couple of things

that are, I don't know if they're implied, but

they're, they're always, they were always in

the story that I wrote, but they're not overt

until, Honestly, part of what happened, because

occasionally people would ask me for a sequel

to this, is that the pandemic happened. And suddenly

I went from traveling all the time to being home

all the time. I really love traveling. I love

conventions. I love getting to meet people who

read my book. And it's kind of how I store up

the energy to work in the studio for as much

as I have to to get a book out. But I figured

out that I bought the house because I liked it.

living here and i like i have a stupid travel

schedule that services the most awesome thing

in my life which is getting to draw write and

draw comics but it like when everybody was cooking

at home it changes the way you approach food

and suddenly i was cooking differently and there

was a you know there was a lot to enjoy about

it and as i realized that i realized there was

a part where carter and lee the characters in

the book would hit a point where maybe they don't

want to travel anymore And the other thing actually

that weirdly occurred to me is I've started traveling

internationally for my little pony convention.

So it's a nice little training wheel way to get

onto places. And there's a lot of places that

have gone. And for, you know, one of the things

you do when you travel, I have figured out is

that you go to the top of really tall places.

Like there's always somewhere that's got a church

bell tower or clock tower or I was in Bruges

and I went to the top of the church that you

see in the movie in Bruges. I did all that kind

of stuff. And it's fine. And the experiences

are great. That's not the point I'm talking about.

But as I get a little bit older, like it's still

– like I don't have any problem doing it. But

I realize that there will come a point in my

life when I won't be able to do that stuff. the

way that I can do it now. So there are certain

things I want to make sure that I take advantage

of and realizing that what happened to Carter

and Lee, like they're not going to want to live

out of a suitcase or, uh, you know, stay a year

in a place and then move everything over and

over. Like that's going to get tiring. So it

occurred to me that it'd be really interesting

to find out what point that happened and how

they dealt with it. Yeah, absolutely. So long

distance now, I'm going to sound like Jeremy

Piven from Gross Point Blank here. Ten years?

Ten years? Long distance. The Travel Miles Club

is 20 new pages of Cotter and Lee's adventures.

You just mentioned all of this about your traveling

and need to want to do it now because much later

you're not going to be able to do it and whatever.

But when did you first... like work on this.

Like this didn't just happen. Like you didn't

just draw this two months ago. No, I had the

idea. It was percolating last year. Um, maybe

the, maybe the year before I remember talking

to my publisher about it in April of 24. And

then I actually did an artist residency at a

place called Chateau Orkavo. in the south of

france in january which was this awesome magical

experience and i i'm going to try to do more

artist residencies because it was so awesome

but what being away allowed me to do was focus

and i wrote and drew the 20 pages while i was

in france so chateau and i i drew the book there

very cool very cool awesome awesome So you have

the Kickstarter and I'm going to be getting this

interview up as soon as I possibly can. But as

of right now, Tuesday night, August, what the

hell day? 19th. 19th. We have, let me refresh

the page just to make sure I have an accurate

count here. Come on. Come on, internet. My internet's

slow. Oh, okay. I've got it open too. Yeah, it's

82 backers, got 28 days to go, $3 ,524. You met

the goal. Yep, funded in six hours. Yep, funded

in six, which I am not surprised. Not because

it's you, not because it's long distance, but

just because it's honestly, yeah, it is because

of that. you know, you get the word out about

that. Like I'm telling you, man, like I've only

done one episode of the pullback about the, about

the comic, but I need to do more promotion of

that old episode that Jesse and I did because

man, more, more people need to read this dang

book. It is. So the, the, the original story,

cause it is, it's so good. And it's like, like

I said, folks, the beginning of the, of the episode.

I don't even think I said hello to you. I don't

even remember. I think the last thing I sent

you was, hey, new, I think it was like last year,

new interview, whatever, whatever, whatever,

something, something, it was something last year.

All of a sudden, out of the blue, I get a message

and I'm like, you're like, don't share this,

but I'm like, if you don't do this to me. If

that's not what I think it is, because you don't

do this to me. Because, yeah. But, yeah. Met

the goal already. So we got 28 days to go with

the stretch goals and everything else. Long distance,

the Travel Miles Club. 20 new pages. Luckily,

folks, he didn't torture me too much. He allowed

me to read the story. I've read it. It's great.

I'm not going to say a damn thing about it. The

only thing I will say is thank you for making

Sydney the most important part of part of that

story. Well, I forget. Was it a birthday present

or did I buy that from? I don't remember. So

years ago, this is a Patreon commission or something.

I think I owed you a commission, but I don't

remember. So back in 2017, 2018, somewhere along

the lines, folks. I ended up with a commission

from Tom and because Tom knows me at that point,

Tom knew me for two years and he knows of not

that I don't not like any of his other work.

But at that point in time, he knew what I liked

and he knew what I wanted because two years in,

I'm like, OK, when's more? At that point, I really

was asking. I'm like, okay, when's more? Like,

really, I remember asking a couple of times in

2016, 2017. And you're like, fine, do this. I

know what it was. I remember what it was. It

was Small Business Saturday that year. Oh, okay.

It was a Small Business Saturday. That's what

it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you drew me a Carter

and Lee. in Sydney, Australia, with the opera

house in the background. And they've got their

arms up, or she's got her arms, they both have

their arms up in the air. I don't remember. I

can't see it. It's back in the back there. But

she says, frequent flyer miles, baby. And I'm

like, oh, cool. Very awesome. And before you

had even offered to show me the new story, I

asked you, I said, so does Australia come in

at any point? Just out of curiosity, considering

that print from X number of years ago. Little

did I know. It's I can't say what it is, folks,

because you're just going to have to read the

story 28 days from now. But yeah, no. So the

let me get back to the questions here and off

the Kickstarter page. Uh, so the next part of

the question says, and this is, this is a future

question. How many miles can we travel in the

long distance club? Is this just the first leg

of the next flight of the, by of the blues? Every

time I come back to something like this and I

try to do it with most of my projects. Now I

want everything I do to be effectively the last

thing I do. In that, like Cupid's Arrows, because

I got canceled in the second season, it's going

to take a lot of effort to do volumes three and

four. So I want everything to be complete when

I do it and not have to come back when I'm not

ready to. So to me, this is definitive until

I come up with a better idea. That was the same

way I was with Love and Capes where I got exactly

to the place that story was always going to end.

It's the birth of the first kid. I really felt

like I nailed the ending and I didn't want to

do the crappy last season of Scrubs. I wanted

to end on the high note. But I never... to keep

sub -referencing. I never wanted to do that Sarah

Michelle Gellar, there's no way that I'm ever

going to do this show on the WB or on UPN kind

of thing. I was never going to say I would never

come back to it, but if I came back to it, it'd

have to be the right story. And Greg Weissman,

who does Young Justice and Gargoyles, is actually

a fan of the book, which blows my mind. And he

came up to me at a show and asked really conspiratorially

because I thought he's going to ask about something

else. And he says, are you ever going to do more

Love and Capes? And I'm like, well, you know,

I would, but I don't know what to do. And like,

you know, there are these problems with the story

that I can't work out and I don't like I don't

need to come back to Love and Capes. He's like,

well, I got an idea. I'm like, okay, tell me

your idea, Mr. Young Justice. And then he told

me an idea, and I'm like, oh, crap, that solves

all my problems. And I figured out the next five

pages in the next hour, and I'm like, okay, well,

I guess I'm coming back. So that was the start

of the fifth volume. Where, same thing, it jumped

ahead in time, and then there were two kids instead

of one, and that, from a production point of

view, it means that I could tell baby stories

i can tell toddler stories i didn't have to follow

the arc of any individual kid and tie myself

to that yeah where the you know loving capes

was dating engagement newlywed kids like it was

always built with that structure and if i was

going to follow their son that's committing to

18 to 21 years of loving cape stuff and i didn't

know if i could do that but being able to drop

in and out and jump ahead a little bit each time

That makes it a little easier to do. So all of

which is to say the same way, if I come up with

something worthy enough of coming back to long

distance, I will. But one, the book's been out

of print for like three years now, four years,

if not more. The fact that working with rocket

ship publishing, I'm able to get the book back

into existence. That's really important to me.

Covers much better. I don't know what I was thinking

the last time the covers much better. Production

is going to be great. There's going to be a hardback

version. I think we're talking about if we, if

we hit the right number, I'll actually put the

original sitcom script in the back of it. And

then the new 20 page story. So there will be

a lot of stuff to it to make it worth being.

You know, a really good collector's edition of

the book that I did 10 years ago. Very cool.

Very cool. I don't think the original trade paperback

cover was all that bad. It's not bad, but when

I look at the new one, I don't know why I didn't

do that one first. Well, because the new one

is, you're talking about the green and the orange

one, right? Yeah, that's because that is specifically

just Carter and Lee with the background of where

they are from. That isn't them. The way I look

at the original cover is they're connecting on

the map. They're making a connection over their

locations because it is a long distance. Right.

I think that I because the original idea was

them on like a. like a stony leap map. Yeah.

Yeah. And like, I was really worried about selling

the initial concept of the, the color changing.

And since they were putting them on the map,

made it difficult to do the colors because I

couldn't, I had to show enough to make the map

work, but I, by the way, the book set up that

every place should be a different color and Indiana

gets in the way as happens to them in the book.

So, uh, doing something that was a glorified

new version of the original four covers and technically

the fifth, because, um, earlier this year and

the last year I put a digital version of long

distance up. on Kindle, on Amazon, because now

that I have the rights back, I can do that. And

now I did a new cover for it as well. Actually,

I take it back. I didn't do a new cover. I recolored

the original cover because each cover had the

two of them separated by distance and different

colors so that the covers would read different.

So there wasn't even the canonical colors of

the comic book. It was using just different colors.

So you knew what was going on. And I think it

worked much better, um, with the second version

that I did. Uh, yeah, I'm just, I'm really happy

with the cover. It's got good movement. You know,

I've learned how to draw marginally better in

the last 10 years. So as an artist, that's the

thing. Like I, like I'm. proud of work that i've

done before but i always want to be getting better

like if i look at something i did 10 years ago

and it let go yeah that was the peak of my talents

i like that you know you're heading in the wrong

direction well no it wasn't the peak but that's

where you like let's just say specifically to

this story that's where it started oh yeah and

and that's and that's the that's the for you

as the creator for you as the artist of the the

style you could that's your starting point That's

your guide to this is what I didn't like. This

is what I did like. Let's take this, this and

this and let's improve upon it. Kind of a thing.

So speaking of writing an artistic style, how

would you define your writing and artistic style?

Oh, my my writing is very sitcom play. Aaron

Sorkin naturalistic. I really love dialogue.

I try to reign that in so I'm not leaning on

it. But it's my favorite thing to write. So,

you know, they're both very deft in wordplay

and Gilmore Girls -like. The art has been a progression.

When I did Love and Capes, it was very much animated,

DCAU animated universe style. So Long Distance

started my tradition of... still cartoony but

slightly more realistic slightly more grounded

i still try to with love and capes there was

an initial rule that i had that everything was

inked with a french curve so it was one of the

ways i put energy and pop into the backgrounds

was to keep everything a little bit like off

center or you know just more natural and long

distance was like the the middle ground with

that. Like there are structures that are drawn

with a ruler. Um, well long distance is also

the first book I did completely digitally. So

it was the, you know, ruler, ruler tool in clip

studio. Um, so it lives in a little more of a

grounded physical universe, but it's also, it

plays to the strengths that I have as an artist

with keeping things kind of, light and bouncy

and cartoony. And, you know, the big thing is

that the, the characters in love and capes have

those DCAU eyes where the guys all have dots

for eyes and the women have larger eyes. And

this, you know, they're there. Everybody's built

on the same structure. Like I, I took all the

stuff that I would have changed about love and

capes potentially and change that in long distance.

And this has been my pretty well de facto style

from this to time and vine to Cupid's arrows

to, um, a warning label, not in that order, but

yeah. Right. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. So the

evolution of your style, are you happy with the

evolution? I am. I feel, uh, I keep trying to

figure out like guardrails, but I also try to

figure out ways to push it in each one. Like

I, it's not that I'm trying to do that, like

milk call Disney house style, but I like how,

And the first 20 Disney films all look like they

were drawn in the same style. And sometimes I

have trouble figuring out exactly where those

boundaries are to have characters interact with

each other. I do like stuff on the slightly more

realistic scale. Like one of the problems with

love and capes was that it was hard to draw a

glass that would look right in Mark's hand and

look right in Abby's hand. Like you had sessions

to the universe that way. Love and capes is probably,

changed since the initial book too it's very

you know I always think of Charles Schultz's

Peanuts where if you look at the strips from

the 50s they don't look the same as the strips

you know from the 90s but nobody ever complained

like it was just him figuring out how to draw

the characters He didn't, you know, there's stuff

you figure out and change along the way. It happened

to Superman. It happened to everybody else. So

I see that in love and capes, but I've never

had anyone mentioned it to me. Um, same way with,

and it has been exploring at post love and capes,

the long distance style and everything that I've

done since then. Um, but I'll like long distance

had the, the special color palette, which was

a different, uh, story choice. When I got into

Time and Vine, I was trying to use the color

palette to just color time different eras. When

I did Warning Label, I did the limited color

palette because Webtoon liked the long -distance

palette, but I didn't want to repeat it. And

that also was my first webcomic. different format

with the infinite vertical scroll and everything

was built on you know all the panels are the

same size and then when i got into cupid's arrows

i started playing around a little more with that

that scroll format and the things you could do

with it ghost whiskers i started bringing in

textures trying to make it look like it was drawn

on paper that had tooth to it so every time every

time i come up with a new project even if the

general drawing style is similar there's always

some other challenge i'm throwing in there to

something to explore something to become a new

tool in my toolbox very cool very cool so the

promotions for long distance the travel miles

club is currently going on now for the next 28

days for the kickstarter even though you already

met your goal like we said there's a bunch of

stretch goals folks head on over there the link

will be in the show notes uh, for the Kickstarter.

Uh, I will also link to Tom's website as well.

You can get all his social media stuff over there.

What else have you got going on? Anything else

you want to promote or anything like that? Oh,

let's see. Um, ghost whiskers is my other new

book that came out in January. It's about a boy

and his two cats who see ghosts. Um, that kind

of got buried a little bit because of all the

diamond stuff that happened. So, um, I want to

point people to that. Cupid's Arrows Volume 2

just came out through Rocketship. I'm going to

be drawing Angry Birds for Rocketship as well.

So when we wrap up here, I'm going to be drawing

another page of that. Yeah, past that, there'll

be more Lovin' Capes. There'll be more Cupid's

Arrows. Those are both on deck. Yeah, I'm just

trying to keep making more stuff and traveling.

at three conventions in a row i'm doing a my

little pony convention in seattle and then i'll

be at dragon con which i think is where you and

i met right no i've never been to dragon con

we've never met in person oh okay i thought we

had sorry um and then uh you're probably thinking

of michael bailey from from uh the fortress of

bailey podcasting network or whatever. No, we've

never met. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then, uh, then

I'll be in Germany for a, my little pony convention

the week after that. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah.

Awesome. Awesome. All right, folks, that's, uh,

that's long distance. Then now, and, the travel

miles club and all that good stuff. Like I said,

the link will be in the show notes, head on over

to the Kickstarter campaign, even though it's

already fully funded. Get on over there. Get

whichever tier you prefer. Check it out. You

can now get the entire story, including the 20

new pages of the Travel Miles Club. I'm telling

you, folks, you're going to love this book. And

if you don't, you have no soul and you're wrong.

So, yeah, that's going to do it for this episode

of The Pull Bag next time. Even if I have to

take a... blue, red, purple, and orange bandana

and tie his arms and legs together. We will get

Joe Reed in here. We will be doing some sort

of whatever the next TMNT comic is that we have

to do for the pull bag. We will be getting that

done. So that's what's coming up here next inside

the pull bag. You can follow me on social media.

I'm at TF2 and Mike on Twitter. Yes, real people

still call it Twitter because, you know. A letter

is just a letter. A letter is not a name. I'm

also on Instagram at TFG1 Mike Presents. You

can head on over to geekcastradio .com. You can

check out all the podcasts and all the podcast

episodes we have over there. We are 16 and a

half years in. We have just over 4 ,000 audio

episodes of podcasting. 16 and a half years yes

folks i am a machine but it's not just me it's

steve megatron it's optimus solo it's a bunch

of other people that that do podcasts with and

for us as well so yeah make your great escape

into comics and unleash the geek in you and we

will catch you next time here inside the pull

bag warning sign number three spontaneous vocalization

I go in there, and I figure, okay, if I sell

them, if all goes, fuck, crying out loud, that's

fine, but could we cultivate it another day?

Because we're like very, we're in air and trouble

something. Some words that go right there. I

just spoke to Sophia. I blew it. I blew it with

you. That's the reason for Hyman. What? You've

just heard the latest episode of The Pullback,

the GCRN's first comic review and discussion

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