Interview with Kyle Higgins on Nightwing, Batman Beyond, and Building Character Mythology

Hi, this is Kyle Higgins and you're listening

to the Geek Patch Radio Network. The mask, the

attitude, the long underwear... Drop it! I'd

love to know what happened between you two. Things

change. No, kidding. You guys used to be the

greatest. Batman and Robin, the dynamic duo.

Maybe you should ask him. I did. And you'll never

guess what he said. Things change. It was building

for a long time. I realize that now. Was never

really right. I mean this isn't exactly a normal

childhood Hello and welcome to the geek cast

radio network interview of Kyle Higgins I am

your host of course Mike Blanchard and I cannot

believe I'm talking to the current writer of

Nightwing the best -selling gates of Gotham Deathstroke

and director slash co -writer Producer of the

film the league we welcome Kyle Higgins. Hi Kyle.

How are you? Hey, man. How's it going? Oh, it's

going really good. Oh, man. Like, I was saying

off air that I started reading Nightwing backwards.

I started with the Death of the Family stuff

because when I started getting back into comics,

Batman 13 was my start, was that whole storyline.

And now I have to go back and catch up. So you

had no idea that Joker had removed his face?

Well, I had I had heard of it and all that But

like up until death of the family like I respect

comics But I'd read comics as a kid, but I like

I had I wasn't that involved I wasn't like everybody

else going to the comic shop every week getting

stuff. I am now I'm gonna between Nightwing Batgirl

Batman Batman and Robin or Red Robin or Batman

vs. Batgirl, whatever they're calling that title

this month That the new Masters the universe

that's coming out from DC Some IDW stuff. I am

like full tilt in now Well, we were glad to have

you yes, I just want to preface this by saying

that I had first heard you on Kevin Smith's fat

man on Batman the two -part episode that was

like two hours long if it was gonna be one episode

and if people want to get Kyle's background and

how he got into stuff. You guys can go over to

smodco .com and listen to that interview. Basically,

this one's gonna be like, what has Kyle, what

have you been doing since then? So basically,

in that interview, kind of talking about Dick

Grayson, your favorite character, being more

than Robin. You had mentioned in that other interview,

that you believe Dick Grayson could exist without

ever being trapped in the Robin persona. Would

you like to expand on that? Well, that's something

that I think any of us who write a character

who was a former sidekick aspire for the character

to be. I think you could make that argument with

any of the former Robins. say that about when

Ed brought Bucky Barnes back in Captain America,

you could say that about Bucky. It's just kind

of a natural state that you kind of want to see

the character evolve out of. And I think that's

why a character like Dick Grayson is so popular,

because I think that resonates with fans. I think

fans... you know read the character and they

want to see him grow and evolve as well much

in the way that as a fan you grow and evolve

in your own life um... so i think it really speaks

to uh... i think a legacy character can truly

speak to something kind of um... something inside

us that really taps into um... you know feelings

of growing up um... and trying to carve your

own path in life So that's kind of it in the

general sense. As far as Vic is concerned, more

specifically with the Robin identity, yeah, I

mean, we're doing some things going forward here

in moving the character to Chicago, and he's

heading there to search and hunt down the man

that killed his parents. And it's all designed

to... build a world and a mythology that is inherent

to Dick Grayson. Not to say that there wasn't

a world of mythology that was inherent to him

before, but I'm really trying to strengthen that

now in a way that his time as Robin was just

one component or one aspect of his life, rather

than the thing you point to when someone asks

you, hey, who is this Nightwing guy I've heard

about? uh... you know nine times a ten you'd

say uh... well and i think a lot of time that

they don't fit well he was robin and then he

became his own guy and you know trying to build

kind of a world that uh... when when when you

go to scratch creation uh... the fact that he

was robin maybe that's the way you open with

but uh... but i gotta try uh... to change it

Well, to me he's more relatable to like an everyday

person. Like Batman is the legend. No one is

ever going to be able to live up to Bruce Wayne

Batman. And then Nightwing is... Nightwing is

DC's version, at least in my eyes, Nightwing

is DC's version of Spider -Man, obviously without

the spider powers, but it's that everyman kind

of character that... somewhere in some one of

these stories that you're writing someone can

find something relatable to them that he has

gone through yeah i would do that you've said

uh... on twitter uh... people have asked you

whether when will there be a nightwing film and

your answer is whenever he appears in a batman

film first honestly i would rather see nightwing

directed dvd animated features or nightwing uh...

Cartoon series I know with the current state

of cartoons that might the cartoon series thing

might never happen But where would you want to

see Nightwing outside of comics? Well, I mean

I've given that answer before for the same The

same reason and rationale that I just described

you know trying to get him away from his moniker

Robin because And really that's kind of where

the challenge comes from for me i mean actually

i have thought about that a lot and and i really

don't have a i don't have an answer i don't i

don't see a way you could do you know maybe a

film unless it was a spin -off of uh... batman

film in which he already appeared because the

things that are most interesting about the character

them from uh... the fact that he grew up as robin

uh... at least that's the perception that that

i've had uh... and uh... you know i mean i didn't

people might disagree with me on that but um...

but that it's part of the modern audience is

concerned but that that's how but people really

could you could make that work in my opinion

anyway uh... so i mean that's kind of where some

of this is coming from to it with the move of

uh... you know i think it's described it's that

kind of conversation of like wall could you could

you develop this character in a way that uh...

if you made a a film or a cartoon series for

a tv show uh... it could stand on its own without

uh... without needing uh... the batman connection

uh... and i don't know if that's possible but

uh... i mean i think that i think that the directed

dvd market obviously uh... lend itself to something

like that uh... you know the dvd animated films

just because they are uh... They are kind of

one -off and standalone stories, and they're

catering to an established audience, who they're

going to be more likely to know who someone like

Knightley is. So that would be cool. But really,

I'll take anything. It's always a lot of fun

to see them pop up in the video games. Injustice

is coming out, I think, this month. Yeah, he

seems to be pretty he seems to be pretty featured

in that but yeah There are action figure two

packs that are coming out to go along with injustice

When I saw the advertisement for it, I was like,

wait a second. You can't have Superman go against

Nightwing. That's an unfair fight Well, I think

yes As entertaining and as interesting it would

be, Clark Cowan Muppet 4. I have a feeling there's

probably story reasons that bring them all down

to the same level. Part of the fun, though, is

seeing characters matched up against each other

who have completely different power set in different

levels, or weight classes, if you will. I get

in this conversation with Brett Booth all the

time, where his favorite stories are always the

ones where the hero is going up against someone

that is so, so out of his weight class. You're

going up against someone that the hero has no

hope of winning against. finding a way to overcome

that or maybe not winning, but the fact that

he's going into the fight is what makes him a

hero. So it's a little different in this case

because obviously someone like Superman is a

hero, but I think some of the fun for fans comes

from seeing some of these guys that you normally

wouldn't see fight each other because they are

in completely different weight classes, kind

of square off. Now you mentioned earlier about

the fact that in the book Nightwing has gone

to Chicago hunting Tony Zuko. Anything else you

can tease from the upcoming stories without spoiling

anything? Not really. I really like people finding

the story down the road in the book. The first

issue, issue 19, comes out tomorrow, which is

Wednesday, April 17th. So you don't have to wait

too long. I think, I've said this before, but

the position that Tony Zuko has within Chicago,

not the position, but what he's been doing for

the last couple of years I think is pretty interesting.

And there's going to be a mythology in the city

that we're building that's going to be a lot

of fun. I mean, it really kind of deals with

the idea of nasty vigilantes in Chicago and what

happened to them and why there aren't any there

anymore. And Nightwing's kind of the first to

return. So again, it's all part of that trying

to build a unique world. Yeah, very awesome,

very awesome. It was announced at WonderCon and

my jaw hit the floor when I saw this. You are

taking over Batman Beyond Unlimited. Yes. Oh,

man. Now, you did an interview with Comic Vine

where you kind of talked about your approach.

For those people that haven't seen that, will

you talk about how you're going to approach the

characters of Neo Gotham? Sure. Well, for me,

some of my favorite qualities about the show

involved the fact that you really didn't know

what happened between these characters. You know,

when the pilot launched, and you see the dynamic

between, well, you see where Bruce is now and

the fact that he's alone and he no longer has

relationships with Barbara and Tim and Dick and

you don't know what happened to Alfred or any

of the villains. That aspect was really engaging

for me. The show didn't deal with too many, as

I like to call, out of the past episodes, where

they're bringing elements of the past back into

the series. It really forged its own identity.

But that mystery really created a nice atmosphere

for the series. And really, I don't know, for

me, it kept me hooked. So I'm kind of looking

to do something a little similar with our first

issue, where we launch and a little bit of time

has gone by. And the status quo as we know it

from Adam's final issue will be changed. So Terry

is no longer in high school. He's in college

now. He and Dana are no longer together. Something

happened and it's... changed things. It's changed

some of the relationship dynamics amongst the

characters. So the question of what that was

and what happened is something that's going to

be kind of the undercurrent for the show, or

not the show, for the book. It'll be kind of

like the running mystery in the series. So yeah,

the first arc kicks off with a big murder and

hopefully people will jump on and give it a try.

I know you're not going to reveal this because

it could be a spoiler, but last month Batman

Beyond 14 came out and it was revealed that on

Adam's run that Dana finds out that Terry is

Batman. Are you going to tie into that at all,

or is that completely separate from what you

guys are going to end up doing? No, that's an

aspect of it. The book is continuing from what

Adam's doing. Dana knows he's Batman. I don't

want to get too much, I don't want to talk anymore

about it. I don't want to get anything out of

the way. There have been, kind of switching gears

here, there has been a lot of people on the divided

line of whether the new 52 is good or bad, or

a bad thing. What is your stance on new 52? On

what? On whether it's a good or bad thing? Yeah.

Well, it's provided me tremendous opportunity

to really break into writing mainstream books.

I was tremendously lucky and fortunate that I

was asked to write Deathstroke and that led to

Nightling. I couldn't ask for a better character,

better title. I don't know, I mean, it's all

good in my opinion. I think it's great, it's

all good. Well, I was going to say, I mean, if

you look at DC's history, it's always kind of

been defined by relaunches in different areas

with the different crisis on Earth series. So,

you know, I mean, I think it's great. the idea

of reinventing yourself is something that keeps

you modern and keeps you fresh. I agree. I think

it's good for getting new readers in because

one of the reasons why I never got into comics

before, because you go into a comic shop and,

oh, Batman number 689 is is out now. And it's

like, okay, so I have to read the last 688 issues

to catch up with the story. So it's like, I'm

all for the New 52 and I love what they're doing.

And I'm really excited to see what you do with

the Batman Beyond title and future stories with

Nightwing and all that stuff. Well, Batman Beyond

is actually not connected to the New 52 stuff.

part of the DC animated continuity. Right. Do

you have any strange fan interaction stories?

Fan it? I don't think so. I mean, it's always,

I mean that's actually, the shows are a lot of

fun for me. You know, being able to go out and

interact with the people that are buying your

book and supporting you each month. That's a

pretty cool aspect of the job. Sometimes it's

fun because as a writer you sit in isolation

for long periods of time and basically your best

friend is a blank page. Actually, your best friend

is a halfway done, three quarters way done script

where you know You know how to finish it and

you know what it takes to finish it and then

it's just a matter of going through. But yeah,

you know what I mean. So it's really fun to get

a chance to interact with people who are reading

the material and it's affecting one way or another.

Like I said, that's one of my favorite aspects

of it. of comics mediums. So any interaction

is a good interaction as far as I'm concerned.

When it relates to comics especially. Before

we let you go, one last question. You mentioned

the writing and that's a kind of isolating process.

How long does it take you to write a script for

Nightwing? It varies. It depends on a couple

things. Whether it's a brand new arc, whether

it's the end of an arc, whether it's somewhere

in the middle. It also varies depending on how

fully fleshed out my outline is. I like to outline

things very, very tightly. I have an outline

that's fully formed to the point where I pretty

much know what every scene is. I mean, I can

write a script in a day. I mean, it's a long

day, but I could do it. Usually, on average,

it's two to three days. And I work in different...

different methods as well. I mean, depending

on my artist. Brett and I have kind of a pseudo

kind of Marvel style method that we work in where

I'm writing more of a plot -based story. And

I'm including some dialogue, but a lot of this

is kind of what it's going to be in terms of

dialogue and more panel descriptions, more panel

descriptions than you would usually see in a

Marvel style. But basically, it's a bit more

freedom for Brett to interpret things. And then

I come back and I'll write. I'll do a finished

pass of all the dialogue that will better fix

the art. Because a lot of times an artist will

find things as he's working on the pages that

you didn't plan for, you didn't think of, and

it can be really cool. And then you come back

and – It makes it seem like it was all planned.

But if I'm writing plot -based, it's much quicker

as well because I'm able to take my outline and

turn it into breakdowns. It's a little bit quicker.

Basically the answer to your question is it depends

on what the deadline is. Yeah, that's usually

always the answer. uh... before we let you go

would you like to inform the people where they

can interact with you online? uh... sure i mean

i'm on uh... twitter's probably the best spot

uh... it's kyle d higgins uh... and then i'm

on facebook as well but i don't really use it

that much so uh... twitter's probably the best

uh... the best place alright i'd like to ask

uh... i'd like to thank mr higgins for taking

the time to chat with me in this gcr interview

You should be sidewalk stroganoff! I changed

the menu. Guess Batman had a change of heart.

Who'd have thought he had one? Speak of the devil.

You comin'? I guess it's about time.