Hitchcock Retrospective – Psycho Review

Hey Tara strong here and you're listening to

the geek cast radio network Hello and welcome

to episode 213 of the cinema geeks I am one of

your cinema geeks optimus solo and joining me

today as Usual is the comic concierge. Hello

there. Hey, how's it going? Going well. We are

back at it once again Dealing with some more

Alfred Hitchcock films. We've covered eight of

them so far and this is number nine this is going

to be our coverage of the 1960 horror film Entitled

Psycho as you can guess produced and directed

by Alfred Hitchcock. Otherwise, this wouldn't

make a whole lot of sense And, uh, the film stars

Anthony Perkins, Janet Lee, Vera Mills, John

Gavin, Martin Balsam, and a few other folks.

And as we usually start off these, we kind of

briefly talk about our experience with the film.

Dan, I know you mentioned last episode that you

have seen, had seen the, the remake, I guess

you would call it the shot for shot remake that

came out. Was that in the nineties or the two

thousands? Think it was the 90s. It was late

90s. I think 99 maybe I forget exactly that was

your only experience with this movie, correct?

Yeah, I I think so I might have like I definitely

haven't sat down to watch the entire thing before

Okay And what without going in any like specific

details? What was your opinion or your take on

the 1999 film? Yeah, 98 was that or 98. I know

I know it was late 90s. I can't remember when

I I don't know. It was fine. I was young and

I didn't really understand the context of it,

really. I knew it was a remake, but I didn't

realize it was a shot -for -shot remake. So I

enjoyed it. It did feel kind of odd because it's

modern, but also it does have that old -timey

feel. I don't know. I know people hate it. Hated

it, but obviously at the time I didn't have the

comparison. So I didn't hate it I remember enjoying

it well enough, but clearly not enough to go

back and watching the original But I don't know.

I don't know how it would feel now going back,

you know comparing it to see Right Yeah, I I

had no experience with this one had never seen

it I had really never been Interested in seeing

it. Like this is one of the ones that like had

we not been doing this I don't know if I would

have ever watched this film just because The

way it's billed as a horror film and I'm just

not like a horror film fan for the most part

So like generally I watch them if my wife wants

to watch them because she loves horror films

but it's not stuff that I seek out on my own

and I probably would have just let that like

the stereotype of what kind of film it was maybe

Cloud my judgment of just watching it because

it's a classic or watching it because it's a

Hitchcock film or whatnot But yeah, I had no

Not only no experience with it. I had somehow

like actually avoided all Information about it

like I knew nothing had been spoiled for me on

this mill on this film Which is kind of odd to

say like I knew there was a shower sequence But

outside of that I knew nothing None of the twists

and turns had been like revealed to me. I hadn't

stumbled across it or something like that So

somehow I I guess I'd avoided talk about psycho

for my entire life So I I did appreciate the

fact that I got to see it without anything being

Spoiled for me or known about in advance so I

will say that much this one is based off of the

1959 novel of the same name like a lot of the

Hitchcock films we've talked about typically

based off of short stories novels plays things

of that nature so you got to watch the original

now Dan and I Before you get into your thoughts.

I have a sneaky suspicion We've been somewhat

In line with each other throughout this. I mean

there might have been some films that like You

liked a little bit more than me or I liked a

little bit more than you but we've generally

been about Pretty similar opinions on all of

these films and I have a feeling this may be

a difference in Opinions for the two of us, but

I'm interested to see so what was your take on?

The original version of this story the 1960 Hitchcock

film psycho It's interesting you say like you're

you're able to watch this without being spoiled

because it was watching this I I kind of felt

like this had the similar thing to like The pirate

strikes back in the sense of it's so ingrained

in pop culture that can you actually experience

it the way it was meant to be originally experienced

because it a lot of it is designed to subvert

your expectations a lot a lot of it's designed

to subvert your expectations because you know

at the time the idea was that story would follow

Janet Lee it almost would be and the first I

would say hour or so is set up like It is more

of that classic noir thriller Where and if you

go in not knowing anything, you know, you would

you wouldn't I think you're you're waiting to

see What's happening next in the sense of like

this, you know Norman Bates doesn't seem like

it's going to be the main focus of the story

but then that all changes and not like that is

the big huge surprise of the movie and You know

like like you mentioned well, I guess you were

able to avoid that but like that shower scene

is so iconic and so well known it's Obviously

the point where that's impossible, especially

if you're like myself and watch the original

Remake before this so um, I I still really despite

all that I still rather enjoyed the movie a great

deal. I I did like Then it does have that meshing

of both noir as well as you know The horror aspects

to me the person that like really shines in this

the one person that makes the movie work It is

Anthony Perkins Norman Bates. He is so good in

this in this like, you know at first he does

feel a little bit all shucks He feels you know,

he's like oh this he does seem like no like a

nice guy basically, you know this normal everyday

guy of standing citizen, but then The way he's

able to slowly show you kind of the darker underneath

elements of him, especially in that opening,

when he's having dinner with Marianne and they're

talking about taxidermy and things like that.

And that's like he is kind of showing itself.

And I don't know, I found his performance to

be really captivating throughout. I will say

the downside is I don't think anyone Comes close

to him. I think a lot of the other characters,

especially after Janet Lee Exits like they're

not nearly as strong performance wise like the

other characters I think you do lose a some but

he's you know, he courses still there But I thought

it was very effective. I thought this of course

it has you know, one of the most iconic scores

of all time that you know, the soundtrack of

the stabbing is you know, one of the probably

one of the most Imitated, you know pieces of

music you outside of jaws probably So I still

rather liked it. I wouldn't say I was I Wouldn't

put it looking at the best films we've watched

thus far I don't know if I would put it there

like I didn't have that I wasn't as captivated

with it as some of those other films because

like I mentioned I don't think the the performances

were strong as throughout the as strong throughout

and I I think it I don't think it loses something

after that scene, but I do think it's like the

climax It's had its height within those moments

in the next 30 45 minutes It's almost it doesn't

have that same Never captures that again. I don't

think but I don't know. I still really liked

it I still thought it was well made I think the

idea of being able to shoot it in black and white

was the right choice It helped I think really

establish that atmosphere overall, but I'm getting

getting the sense. Maybe that he felt the other

way Um, I I'm still wrestling with it a bit.

I feel like This may end up somewhat like in

the same realm as vertigo for me in a way like

it's something that is very Highly praised right

like this film is on a lot of people's top lists

It's on a lot of like famous top 100 lists a

lot of people put this as even the number one

Hitchcock film out there. So part of it may be

that There was Super hot pretty impressive resume

of like it's lauded very well and all this type

of stuff So it's hard when you've heard so many

like fantastic things about a film. Yeah, you

go and watch it You know it most films can't

live up to that like even if they are fantastic

like it's just like you you get such a high expectation

and a high like Thought process going so like

some of it. I'm trying to wrestle with whether

that's part of why I came away a little lower

on it. Not low, like as if it's a bad movie,

but like in a similar way, like what we talked

about with Vertigo, where it's just like, I don't

quite see it hitting on as many levels as I expect

when I'm hearing the praise that I hear. So that's

one thing that I'm a little wrestling with. And

the other thing that I'm wrestling with, which

is a hundred percent more on me than it is on

the film. And I was thinking about this. Oddly,

as I was reading some other reviews from some

other folks on letterbox, as they were reviewing

some older films like from the fifties and whatnot

that I had. Well, I'll just say it for example,

so like. In session film just did a episode on

my fair lady. And they're going through, I believe

all of the best picture winners and reviewing

them. I don't. know exactly if they're covering

all of them or just certain ones or whatever.

But they talked about My Fair Lady and I read

the reviews on Letterboxx and they were both

very low on it. And it caught me off guard a

little bit. I'm a little bit biased because I

got to perform in a version of My Fair Lady in

like my college age years. And so I have a little

bias going into it. But I was reading the reviews

and thinking Well, you're you're seeing this

in through the eyes of somebody in 2025 versus

somebody that was watching it in the time period

that it was made and Then I was like immediately

thinking the same thing then was psycho I was

like is this fair because I'm viewing this through

2025 lens not 1960 and it's hard when you've

seen all of this done because obviously this

inspired a lot of other films to do similar things

right like there's a there's a lot of stuff that

has that little twist at the end and there's

like the whole like uh I don't know you think

of like the sixth sense and you think of like

different things that have come out along the

way and like so some of that steals some of that

because now I've I you know I I got 65 more years

of movies that I've seen here and there not that

I've seen everything but I've seen a few so it's

like now trying to like take that away and take

that knowledge of all the different films that

psycho influence and view it as it was which

is something that really kind of broke a mold

in a way and almost created a whole genre like

a lot of people give this credit for like introducing

or being one of the first like slasher films

in a way or what leads to a lot of those. So

some of it's like wrestling with my own perspectives

versus like what the film is and I'm still kind

of coming to terms with that. Another thing that

I was like a little bit debating with myself

is like this is It's listed as a horror film.

It's known as a horror film But I'm having like

these discussions with myself like in my head

on What separates this from all the other films

that we've watched it outside of that it's a

little bit more Like that it shows a little bit

more But in many ways like you said like the

first whole half of this or anything just lines

up with a lot of the other stuff We've seen as

far as the thriller suspense like noir aspect

Yeah but this one gets a hundred percent like

described and portrayed as you know an all -out

horror film and I don't know enough about horror

films so I don't know if it's just the fact that

they the sour sequences here or that they show

a little bit more of that that it's a little

bit more graphic that makes it a horror film

because otherwise you're dealing with a lot of

the same aspects right except Guess in this situation

out instead of the the killers that we've seen

in like almost every other film We've watched

so far cuz almost all of them have all of them

had a killer All of them have had a murder, right?

when notorious didn't really notorious was more

the There was some implied. Yeah, they're like

it like some people got killed, but it was right,

right Yeah, so so like they've all had a kid

or most of them have had like a murder or a kill

killing of some sort but They just deal with

it in a much more subtle way I guess in some

situations where it's implied or where we don't

necessarily see it a hundred percent of the time

so I guess that's the difference but I don't

know enough about like Genre studies to figure

out like which things make this one a horror

film. That's you may more know more about that

I know it's a good question cuz it like I guess

it's idea like the horror of or still there where

it doesn't I think it's more so labeled as a

horror because as you mentioned the influence

of like And of what it led to because you know,

then the the motels I don't I don't know if this

was the first movie like this to have a motel

scene of this nature there may have been others

but clearly it helped popularize it and then

we got more and more of it and then maybe because

the like The murder becomes a central story.

It you know, it becomes like kind of the focus

it is designed to scare like that is like where

I think that becomes Like where yeah, I get that

where other movies like vertigo certainly was

an element there without like there was much

romance as Thrills, I guess. I don't know. I

think it's a fine line I think you could you

could I think you could even say, you know vertigo

certainly is horror elements like North by the

North Northwest Perhaps not but it's like after

where there's a thriller end in a horror began.

I guess it's right. Yeah Yeah, that had nothing

to do with my like Opinion about the film. I

would just it was just something that I was thinking

about that was like You know back in this time

period if this is like one of the first ones

of its kind I was curious like how that evolves

and like I get it like Maybe in some situations

you have the jump scares, right? You have a soundtrack.

It's like a little bit different It's it's it's

trying to influence those scares a little bit

Like you said, you know, you can see the influence

that this has on jaws and things like that where

like you have that soundtrack that's really amplifying

the scares a little bit as well. And then I guess

perhaps to like the motivations of the of the

person involved in the killing or the murders,

maybe that's like where you could draw a line

to. Not that everybody's not a little bit off

if they're killing somebody, but like, you know,

this situation, obviously, there's there's there's

more to this character that's Putting down the

position that he's in. So I kind of get that

a little bit as well Yeah, and it's you know,

this kind of did for showers what Jaws did for

going to the ocean It's like now it's it played

against you know those fears I don't know if

it so they created them but certainly like that

those places where you feel feel the most vulnerable

and Something, you know, I'm sure everyone's

had that moment where they heard something outside

of a shower and then like quickly opened Quickly

open the curtain, uh just to see what exactly

was there. Um, yeah, so I think it was I did

was I did read something that said janet lee

didn't take showers again During her lifetime

after this. Yeah, it wasn't because of like anything

besides I think she said While she was watching

the film after it was done or at one point she

was watching it and it was more so the fact that

it kind of hit her hit home for her that like

How vulnerable you are in the shower? Yeah, as

far as that goes and she was I don't know if

it's true now I said that she didn't take it

like she swore off showers for the rest of her

life and just took baths But then I heard I read

something else that somebody else had been Wrote

I don't know if he wrote Hitchcock or wrote somebody

or put it in a review or something that like

There they were mad because their daughter was

already afraid of bass because of some other

film that had come out Around this time and then

this one made the daughter afraid of showers.

She he was like, no, I can't watch this one Yeah,

and Hitchcock said something about like we'll

send her to the dry cleaners or something. I

have to go out back with a hose Go ahead speaking.

I was just talking with a shower scene what like

I I couldn't remember this if this was done in

the remake or not, but like i didn't like i was

impressed with how that shower scene happens

and i was waiting for it to kind of cut but like

it it stays like after that happens we stay there

you see norman come down kind of go through it

and you know i think That's where I was I was

thinking about like the mindset of not knowing

because I knew obviously the twist or whatever

Did you know that at that point or did you not

know about? I did not know I hadn't put it all

together. I don't think at that point What what

I think I was so distracted by the fact that

it happened so early in the film Okay, so I was

not anticipating the shower I was I thought the

shower scene was gonna be something at the end

like I thought that was gonna be like leading

up to the final climax and things like that.

And it happens like less than halfway in or at

the halfway. I don't know where you're at, technically

minute wise, like, but it feels like almost halfway

through. And I was just like, wait, what? I'm

like, she's not going to be in the rest of the

film. What are we doing here? I thought this

was all I thought this was her film. I thought

this was like we just spent like half the movie

building up this character, learning about her

and all this other stuff. And I think that kind

of led me to some of the same feelings that you

had that like once she was gone, I was like,

Okay, like who do I care about now? It's like

watching a game with their own season and being

like well everybody I cared about just died in

that season So do I need to come back for season

two? I don't know What I could get that I think

what kept me wanted like I said, I thought Anthony

Perkins was really good and I was just interested

to see like them being able to Go back and see

if they could actually I mean the route that

what was going to happen. So I think I think

we're good then. But like they used females to

do that voice. And so I I'm too like, I guess

maybe I'm too practical or logical or something

in my brain. So I would have never like it was

clearly a woman's voice. It wasn't a man throwing

his voice to sound like a woman, even if it would

have been like a really good job of it. So like,

I don't think I would have ever been able to

put those two together because I had already

like it wouldn't have fit my other pieces of

logic I have in my head going there. And then

I really need to re -watch the film because I

thought I was paying really close attention to

a sequence where he's taking his mother down

the stairs. And they must have done a phenomenal

job filming that sequence because I was looking

to see if it was real or not. Because what I

thought I thought different things and then they

would do something in the film that I was like,

oh, well, that eliminates that thought when it

actually didn't. So they did enough to keep me

guessing throughout that. And the voice, like

I said, would have thrown me off. And then I

looked up afterwards, I was like, well, who's

doing the voice of this? And they cast three

different people to do her voice, which is also

interesting. So throughout the film, there's

three different, there's two female and one male

that does her voice. so apparently there is a

point where a male is throwing his voice, but

it sounded so much like a female to me that I

was like I Was just thrown off by that a little

bit. So I yeah, I did I definitely didn't wouldn't

have predicted it Happening until obviously there's

there's more clues along the way out that sort

of reveal it But yeah The other thing I was interested

is kind of thrown off at the beginning number

one was the shower sequence happening so soon

and number two was in a manner I leaned over

to me about five minutes in and she's like She

was convinced that this was that we weren't going

in chronological order anymore because they had

gone back to black and white and I was I thought

I was trying to figure out what the Reasoning

for it was what the you know, how why they were

doing it because obviously we had just had a

color film in The last couple and then they go

back to to black and white and I was Interested

to see like why that was I read a couple different

things I don't know which one's more true like

one of them said that they had to do it because

of the graphic nature of the film and making

it in black and white made it not quite as a

Gory, but then I also read something that Hitchcock's

was just using black and white because he tried

he was trying to make this film as cheaply as

possible or as inexpensive as possible because

he Was afraid that it you know, it wasn't gonna

make very much money because of its the nature

of the film So, I don't know which one maybe

both had an influence, but I do think it works

as black and white Yeah, for sure. I Think I

think it is a better movie because of it in a

lot of ways because it I think especially like

the basis house it just looks that much more

and I think the Mom of course like even Being

able to I think you can hide it a little bit

more for longer with it being in black and white

like if it's in color It comes off a little you

can maybe tell her it maybe it's a little bit

more obvious But yeah, it's I do agree with you

though that the characters in the first half

are there's more to them and it's and they're

more likeable to me like not I don't know if

likeable is the right word, but in the beginning

obviously we get her and her lover And we have

her boss, her coworker, and then the idiot guy

that is coming in to try to make some type of

deal with her boss. But they all have some character

to them. Obviously, we get Hitchcock's daughter

again as the coworker in that first office sequence

or whatever, the same person that we saw in...

Which one was it? Strangers on a Train? Yes,

Strangers on a Train. So we get to see her again.

I was much more invested in all of those characters.

And obviously, Norman Bates is enough to carry

the rest of the film. I'm not saying he's not.

It's interesting to watch. There's enough intrigue

there that you're trying to figure out what's

behind everything and all the elements of this.

And he's enough to carry it. But I did find that

second half, like her sister, I could care less

about her. Perfectly blunt and like the guy becomes

less interesting her her lover that was I mean,

he was never real interesting but like just the

fact that we're left with those two in a way

was kind of It left a little bit for me to desire

because I was hoping that There would be some

more little Fun pieces along the way as we're

kind of I wanted more interaction with Bates

from these other characters But like I said,

Norman Bates is phenomenal. He carries this well.

I don't can't picture anybody else playing that

role Yeah, so I which you feel bad because you

know, like for the rest of his career. That's

all anybody's gonna be able to like View him

as yeah, which you can either accept that or

you can let that like get to you But but I do

think he was phenomenal. Like you said Yeah,

it I think at that point, you know, it's like

those characters are just odd devices purposely

like what they're just there to try to Let you

figure out what exactly is happening in the push

to mystery forward a bit and maybe in the novel

You're able they're able to kind of go deeper

into it and stuff like that. But yeah It's interesting

too because like, you know, obviously This all

stems from her stealing $40 ,000 and it had me

thinking like how much is that in today's money?

I don't like I don't know how accurate this calculation

is but it was like 400 it's over 400 That four

hundred and twenty nine thousand dollars would

be how much it is today, which is kind of Just

and then there would be it would also be interesting

to know like that there was the in that car interaction

like how much that like Yeah, um equated to because

they're definitely throwing around some different

money and it was it was interesting too. Like

I they didn't They have this big plot moment

as far as her taking off with that money and

I still feel like that's not fleshed out a hundred

percent like it seems Really odd at first like

her decision making and like what she's doing

with that and I was interested to try to like

get to see more about Some underlying factors.

I know they do have some conversations between

her and Norman Bates that kind of go to it and

obviously like she decides To that she's not

doing the right thing at one point There's a

whole redemption sequence which is you know symbolic

with her taking the shower and all the other

stuff but like I did there was a few moments

that I was like, oh, I want to see a little bit

more. I want to get like, I'm not, when she first

steals it, I'm like, I'm not buying that this

character is doing this at first, which was kind

of a little tricky. And then there was another

thing that I wish they would have fleshed out

a little bit more, which was, and I don't know

how they do this. You really can't because you're

going to have this big reveal at the end, this

big twist, et cetera, which even for me not knowing

The movie or anything like that. I think there

was enough breadcrumbs there that It wasn't very

shocking We've just seen I've seen too many movies

that do similar stuff so you can kind of predict

it in 1960 I'm sure it was a that would have

been a lot harder to do but in 2025 like we've

seen that so I kind of put that together, but

then after that it's kind of a weird sequence

where There's just a dialogue there's like a

uh dump of information like a narrative dump

between the at the police station or wherever

it is that i i wish there would have been a way

for them to do that without just i don't know

like when that happens in today's films critics

are all over it like they're usually very much

against those types of things where we just get

a narrative dump like that I guess it's okay

in psycho because it's a classic that they do

that but I also don't know how they would have

avoided it because You're basically at the end

of the film. So you have to explain things somewhat

quickly But it did come off like oh we're getting

a whole bunch of information right now to like

tie up all the the loose ends and a nice bow

And I wasn't sure how that worked for me in a

way Yeah, I could see that I think also part

a lot of that too is I think the idea of psychology

is so are we Unknown for a lot of people at that

time at that level. Yeah, but you had it like

The way do you approach it? It's interesting.

Did you ever? So I know this is based off a book,

but a lot of this is based upon a real -life

story of Eddie I think it's Eddie keen how you

pronounce it and you heard so I actually read

there's this really great comic Do you know what

Eddie Gein did? Uh and goes into like his story

And it's interesting like watching that because

a lot of like a lot of that real life story Is

this what inspires this? It's what inspires texas

hate saw massacre uh, it would um violence of

the lambs They all kind of come from a similar

vein. So I do think when you mentioned like how

a lot of movies Like you know, like you you were

able to put together, you know Because you've

seen a lot of movies. I think a lot of that too

is because a lot of them At the core is like

the same Real -life story that they're all kind

of breaking off from so I think that is also

part of that at this time like that story Right

sure what exactly it was, but it wasn't that

far away from when this movie came out. So it

was you know far more New like it was so yeah,

and I think the other thing too is not just movies.

It's like the type of TV we've had in the last

I Don't know. Let's call it 20 years 25 years

Maybe even 30 with all the different criminal

minds and CSI's and NCIS's and law and orders

and all that kind of stuff. Like I feel like

each one of them has done this as well in some

way, shape or form. So it's like, you're not

just getting it in movie form. We've been getting

in and all the, like the crime drama TV series

as well. Like at some point, like there's little

tiny twists like this. So like, I don't think

that helps either. That's why like I, I'm really

trying to like view this and take like the 2025

like lenses off, but it's really hard to do.

Get that also though. I do think it's also like

being hitchcocked or something like amazing shots

and that's like the yes shot of him when he takes

a Looks through the wall into her room like that.

Like that's pretty incredible after you know,

of course you have the like Iconic sour she's

a shower scene But then like after that like

how he goes through the room and like like that

like that entire sequence Like it goes out of

that's like incredible for the time so Also spying

on her or looking in or doing all of that stuff

So I think it's an interesting thing that Hitchcock

does occasionally at least that we've seen where

he's making the viewer Almost part of the film,

but but more so like in the inner characters

View and like in their perspective in a way that

you feel like you're doing something wrong also

Which I think is a very genius move by him. This

is like yeah, this entire film is like Dedicated

the taboo like the opening scene is of My goodness,

so I had to forget her name Generally, you'll

generally open see is generally like in in her

underwear, which like which is also on the movie

poster Which is on the movie poster? Which you

know certainly is something that? is unbecoming

for I mean, it was a 60. So maybe, you know,

it was starting to loosen up a little bit, but

still, and like, of course, looking into the

shower, it is that they have a relationship,

they're not married to like, I think this is

an exercise like he loves to revel in the taboo.

And I think this is kind of escalates that further

and further from that opening moment to like

all these different uh, aspects of like, you

know, the, what is considered indecent, um, to

the point we were having, you know, the, the

idea of, I mean, being a transvestite, uh, which

is said in this movie, of course, which is obviously,

it means a lot of different things now, but it's

just like, it's just interesting, like. It's

interesting that he got it made. Yeah. Especially

it's, it's kind of crazy that there wasn't a

bigger, maybe there was, and we just didn't know

about it, but like. Feel like there's a lot of

things here that could cause a gigantic uprising

considering everything involved but and it seems

like the biggest thing that so so you have like

the the the shower sequence you have the stabbing

you have the The lack of you know, it's not nobody

is nude or things like or it's not shown But

like, you know, you have illusions to it. You

have scantily clad, you know a woman in the first

sequence you have all these other things that

you think that someone would have a problem with

and Yet the biggest thing that they had to try

to get around to allow it to be filmed was the

flushing of a toilet. Like that, that seems bizarre.

I mean, I guess this is the first time that a

toilet's flushed on in American film. And really?

Yeah. Like literally. And I guess it was a thing,

like somebody involved, it wasn't Hitchcock,

but somebody involved, I think in the screenplay,

whoever was the writer, possibly Joseph Stefano

for some reason, wanted to flush a toilet on

the film and get past this. rule that you couldn't

do that and was in conversation with Hitchcock

like I want to flush a toilet on a film and Hitchcock's

like well then you better write it in so that

it makes sense and that's why they have the whole

sequence where she tears up everything and on

these numbers and throws it in there and like

he had to do it in a way that was so important

to the plot that they couldn't cut it because

I mean not that it was so so important but something

that was like you know relevant to the plot where

they can't just be like well take that sequence

out So like, yeah, it's the first time a toilet

flush. And that's the thing that that had to

get past the sensors, not the not any of the

other stuff, which is which is interesting. I

do also find it interesting, like how much Hitchcock

was and it seems like like a lost art, right?

Like these days, everything gets spoiled for

you. Like nothing can happen on anything without

it being like told you in advance or like I think

of like even outside of the film world, like

just. I know not everybody's into professional

wrestling but like professional wrestling is

like a perfect example of where we're at today

with like the internet and Everything and how

many people are involved like almost nothing

is ever a surprise, right? like it's very hard

for them to keep something under wraps and make

something to look like a legit shocker surprise

because people are like making their livings

out of exposing that stuff and So he was very

Put a concerted effort to try to Avoid people

knowing how this was gonna end. So he bought

the rights to this book kind of on the down low

or kind of like somewhat subtly and what and

then apparently went out and tried to buy as

many copies of the book as possible to prevent

More copies being out that someone could read

and find out how this is gonna end Like this

that seems like maddening like there's no way

you could buy all of the copies of this book

and prevent anybody from knowing but like he

He made an effort to try to do that, to try to

prevent people from knowing how it was going

to end. And then he also did something that ends

up being somewhat impactful, I guess, from the

movie theater business is he made movie theaters

sign a contract that if they were showing this

film that nobody could go into the film if they

were late, late to the start of the show. Yeah.

So like, yeah. And like before this, like movie

theaters would just show a movie on loop and

it would just be playing like all day and. People

would come in at different times. Like sometimes

you'd come in halfway through. Sometimes you'd

come in like whatever, and you'd catch what you

could and stuff like that. And like, this is

probably a piece to the puzzle that leads to,

and it probably would have happened for other

reasons and different stuff, but this helps escalate

the process of actual having start times where

you pay for a predetermined time, not just you

go up and pay your ticket and get to go into

the theater and see what's playing. Like you

had to buy you know, like we do now a 720 showing

or an 820 showing but and then he had like big

signs made put in the theaters that were like

if you try to like Come to this movie after it

started like we're gonna remove you with force

and stuff like that Or I don't know. I don't

know exactly what it said, but it was like literally

a quote from hitchcock That was like don't do

this. I want the theater people to make sure

that you can't go in halfway through um, and

part of that's too because of the fact that He

knows how much happens in the first little bit

first half or whatever and that if you come in

and Miss some of that like it's gonna change

the viewing and and whatnot So it was it was

very interesting about how secretive he was about

the ending coming out and things of that nature

At least I thought that was kind of interesting

Yeah, that is I I heard that before regarding

it helped it helped establish movie times which

to me is just crazy when you think like I couldn't

imagine just like going to the theater and then

Just you know this is the Can and now it's like

you you not only do you have the movie times?

But you get your you know, what seat you're at

before you even leave the theater, right? But

you know, I remember that we're old enough to

remember if you wanted to see a movie opening

weekend You had to get there early and you're

standing the line. Yeah I remember doing that

for like camp out. Yeah, Spider -man all those

and whatnot. But yeah, I did that for a few Star

Wars films So yeah, but anything else you had

that you wanted to The film was nominated for

four Academy Awards best picture best supporting

actress I believe Score or cinematography or

something like the other two were more on that

side of the things I didn't realize until doing

some more like research in the last like a couple

weeks since we've been doing this that Hitchcock

never won a best director for anything Which

is crazy seems like a crime against humanity

there, but he at least got nominated for this

one I don't remember I don't know which film

beat him out in this specific. Let's see. This

would have been the 33rd Academy Awards who won

best director Billy Wilder won for the apartment

It's a great movie. So I I would probably I would

actually go apartment over psycho personally.

Yeah So but it's weird that he never won one.

But yeah, so like I said, I'm a little bit probably

not as high on this one as everybody else. I

was checking out like the people that I'm connected

to on letterbox and literally every single person

rates it either four and a half or five star.

I didn't find a single person that rated anything

lower than that. So I'm probably in the minority,

but I think some of that's just because it's

just really hard for me to view this. I think

if I saw this in 1960, it probably would have

been very impactful and very effective. And I

would probably have a lot more high things to

say about it i just there's something about the

second half characters that are a little bit

of a miss for me and i just i don't know like

norma bates is amazing like i get how impactful

this is for not just like we're talking about

with the theater going process but with all of

the horror genre as we go forward i see all of

that and i appreciate all that i don't think

this is a bad movie in any way whatsoever i just

Came in with probably too high of expectations

would be like my overall thought. What about

you? Yeah, I like as I mentioned, I don't looking

at the his cock films. We've done so far It's

not up there as my favorite, but I still really

enjoyed it. I still think it's well done and

there's a lot I was really impressed by it Starting

with the ambition of it and it's and then you

include the importance and I could understand

like you mentioned because they're so it's the

thing where A lot of what this does well is so

old hat by now. It's hard to, especially with

horror when it's horror. So it depended upon

concept of fear. You don't have that because

like you're kind of ahead of the film. It's,

you know, and especially if it doesn't have another

thing for you to. Being invested in I could see

where that is, but I like even with my issues

with you know The characters in the second half

everything I've ended up liking beyond that.

Like I said, this it's so well crafted uh, and

I I find it is There's even like we didn't talk

about but there are so many so many great lines

in this the even though, you know, they're You

know, you know the there's so many that become

really well known, you know, of course the the

line regarding, you know, the Best friend is

a mother and all that stuff. I say that and I

can't remember that line. No, I know I know exactly

what you're talking about. Grain is broken but

But I and and like I said, I think that is partially

to like I just it's interesting Just it's a movie

that is just as fascinating regarding everything

surrounding it And then also just learning about

like the real -life story that inspired it and

seeing I think that honestly makes it even more

impactful because you realize there's a lot of

truth in what's happening here. Like it didn't,

obviously, it's not the Eddie Gein thing. It's

very different, but it does involve a lot of

what's brought up in this, like in the sense

of like, you know, how he, I don't even want

to get into it. Like, you know, the, you know,

it's not that far off. So I think that like knowing

that piece, like it almost makes it even More

impactful because it's like oh, yeah, like this

actually is closer to reality than we like to

know. So yeah, it's not me. Oh, yeah. I was gonna

say I did that made me think one other thing

too is like and I don't I would need to be a

psychologist or Somebody to like be better spoken

When it comes to this type of thing, but I did

think that there the the explanation of what's

happening and What the real situation is once

all the curtains pulled back I still question

how that connects and like Works or how you reconcile

that with the final murder attempt in this film

because it's it truly seems as if the character

Knows that they're about to be caught and then

runs over to the house and does something very,

I feel like that last sequence of his actual,

of the actual last murder attempt doesn't line

up with the psychology that would have been,

that they're trying to say is present. But I

don't know enough about that world to say that

100%. But I did question, it's like when someone's

trying to put on a defense or build a defense

of being, not mentally sane to be, you know,

to be culpable of their actions. And then you

can see that they're doing stuff that proves

that they're sane. Like there's there's something

in that that didn't 100 % work for me. But like

I said, I'm not knowledgeable enough in that

arena to say that for sure. But it just it did

seem kind of jarring because it's like, no, now

now he's clearly being a character that's that's

doing this because he knows it's something like

the jig is up. and he's just putting on a costume

and doing this. You know what I mean? There wasn't

enough time for him to transition into another

personality, so to speak. I don't know. That's

just me being overly critical. Well, you can

continue your thoughts, but then I guess we forgot

to point out any of the Hitchcock -isms that

we saw in this film as well. Yeah, one of the

thing was gonna ask if you had any interest in

I didn't even realize that they're sequel So

that's not there's like the second and third

film and he's in it right like yeah It picks

up like in real time afterwards after that would

be interesting So I would yeah, I mean I've never

watched it. You don't really hear anyone ever

talk about it So I might have to we might have

to have like a appendix after this we're gonna

keep we're gonna have enough content down for

the next couple years like We're just gonna keep

expanding this this series even though those

aren't obviously directed by Hitchcock but I

would be intrigued at least in the second one

that would the How good or bad that one is would

probably influence if I wanted to watch the third

one But I could definitely I definitely think

it would be interesting. What other Hitchcock

things did you pick out? That we've talked about

throughout this series. Well, you know, of course

you have the Hitchcock blondes. Uh, this didn't

have someone, you know, I guess maybe for a brief

moment. Yeah. Uh, the, didn't have someone that

was wrongly accused, although I guess you could

say like her sister maybe, but not really. Well,

almost the, like they tried to for the, her lover.

I can't remember the character's name, which

is terrible, but her lover, like for a split

second, but then it's pretty much. Put to bed

after that. So they like they At least touch

on it, I guess For a second. Yeah, I Think if

he had a cameo in this but I can't remember he

does he does I have to watch the end cuz I didn't

catch it But I read that he he has a cameo super

early on and he said he intentionally did it

like real close to the beginning of the film

because he didn't want he I guess at this point

it had been such a known thing that like some

people would be like distracted by the film to

watch to try to find his cameo and he didn't

want anybody to be like thinking about anything

else throughout the rest of the film so because

of the the twists and the turns and stuff like

that so he put it real early on but I don't remember

where it happens but it is in there I'll have

to like rewatch part of the first part of the

film to see that and then obviously we do have

the the son -mom relationship Oh, yeah, definitely

iconic of them all Yeah, and then there is a

there is some obviously some of the mystery elements

as far as What's gonna happen there we don't

necessarily have a a Small like a one -room set

or a one -state, you know, like a stage set or

whatever where it's all confined into a small

space But it is still mostly happening at this

hotel Yeah, so like you do have some other spots

you go to obviously like there's a half a dozen

probably But you do mainly focus on the hotel

and you do have at least for the whole second

half of a pretty limited cast So I think that

kind of plays into some of the things that we've

seen as well I didn't I don't know if I picked

up on anything else. Did you? Know that's all

I could really there wasn't any I guess the trinket

in the sense of you know that like yo says a

little small item She had that note like first

the the things she wrote down and like the newspaper

with the envelope that becomes like a huge But

eventually the money almost really I guess Yeah,

but I'm almost like you said as a red herring

because Makes you think like, oh, that's the

most important thing. But halfway through that

money, I mean, it's still important to the story,

but it's like, it's no longer the story. So I

do think like, he was really smart in this and

like, he knew what people expected and was able

to really use that in smart ways to subvert expectations.

It is interesting that we go from North by Northwest,

which you could say like almost influenced an

entire genre of James Bond and those types of

films and then you have psycho which you could

say, you know influences the entire slasher genre

that would come to be Seen in the horror genre.

So it's interesting how much impact you can see

some of these films having which I wasn't necessarily

Aware of before we started this journey. So that's

kind of cool, too Yeah people I've seen that

like people people ask like what is like the

best, you know three movies like, you know, who's

had like You know, uh, movie sequence or whatever

you want to say and like vertigo north by northwest

and then psycho I mean suspicion. Oh, that's

a tv series or the wrong man, which is we have

not seen I have not seen so I can't say that

vertigo north by northwest and then psycho like

that's It's hard to beat those three like even

though we didn't love vertigo But still like

that's it's like hard to beat that three with

any type of films after that. So No, I totally

get that. Um, so That's a psycho the 1960 film.

We still have one more in what I guess we could

call is the first half of our Hitchcock series

because we have decided based on some conversations

that we've had off of line and you could have

kind of picked up on on the I don't know if his

last episode of the one before where we kind

of mentioned that we weren't tired of Hitchcock

yet. So we have decided to expand this series.

So we're going to be doing Number of other films

as well. We haven't a hundred percent narrowed

down the exact number, but there's a good chance

that this is Right around the halfway point of

this We might do a couple different episodes

in between the two halves, but we're gonna we're

gonna Charter through some more Hitchcock Waters

But the last one we have for this part of it

this first half the original lineup is 1963 the

birds Dan what is your experience with the birds?

I have no experience with the birds. I have seen

Birdemic, of course. And Sharknado. I have not

seen Sharknado. Oh, OK. No, I have avoided that.

I saw Birdemic. It was one of those, like, awful,

like, you know, with friends because you laugh

at it. But I've never seen the birds. Honestly,

I've heard mostly of all the movies we've done

so far, the birds is the one I've heard the most

mixed reaction to. Like I've heard a lot of people

who don't like the birds. So i'm curious with

that going into it like how i'll end up enjoying

it i'm intrigued too I know nothing about it.

It's another one that I have completely blind

spot too So i'm i've been interested in watching

this one for sure I don't know exactly what angle

we go to with this one But I know that I am a

fan of other films that whether they're campy

or cheesy or whatever When there's a lot of a

certain type of animal or insect or something

like that. Like I I like those types of like

setups so we'll see if that works with the birds

or like them like you like you have you seen

them but i haven't i haven't seen them but it

reminds me of an episode of macgyver that killer

ants try to take over and uh he has to figure

out how to how to survive in this remote wilderness

that everybody's getting killed by ants I if

you love like cheesy sci -fi them is great. It's

I think obviously pretty even pretty good for

its time, but it's it is that you know That is

it is very much of its time awesome. So if you

want to keep up and Ask us questions or keep

track of what we're doing outside of our Hitchcock

retrospective. There's a bunch of different ways

you can do that first you can search out the

show which is I should know this name of the

show which is a cinema geeks and you can search

our handle out on Twitter Facebook Etc or the

website that most of our stuff is Held and housed

in which is the geek cast radio Network, you

can search out all that kind of stuff if you

have specific questions or comments for either

of the two of us Dan How can people reach out

to you? I am comic concierge on pretty much all

social media platforms and I am at optimus solo

on a few of them not nearly as many as dan is

uh because i'm just a slacker but uh you can

reach out to us there as well if not for sure

tune in next time for another chance to listen

to more of the cinema geeks as we go one more

step into the alfred hitchcock filmography with

1963's the birds