Die Hard vs Lethal Weapon

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presents GCRN Wars. Two geek topics will be challenged.

The ultimate battle will come to pass. One shall

stand. One shall fall. It's Christmas Eve in

L .A. But a team of terrorists You want money?

What kind of terrorists are you? Who said we

were terrorists? have their own holiday plans.

And I'm telling you, you're just gonna have to

kill me. Okay. We do it the hard way. But the

one thing they didn't plan on was New York cop

John McClane. Got invited to the Christmas party

by mistake. He's an easy guy to like. Welcome

to the party, pal. And a hard man to kill. He's

the criminal's worst nightmare. A cop who enjoys

the danger. He was ready to retire. Now, he's

run a wish he had. Gun! Raj, meet your new partner.

New partner? Too old for this. But these guys

can just stand each other. What you got in here?

Bowie and Smith? A lot of old timers. Count me

those. The bad guys don't stand a chance. Hello

and welcome to episode 5 of GCRN Wars. I am one

of your hosts, Optimus Solo, and joining me is

Steve Megatron Phillips. Hello. Hello. And what

does TFG1 stand for today? Mike, hello. Hello.

And today we are tackling yet another topic as

you've seen in our past Wars episodes. It's all

about two opposing topics that are somewhat similar

battling each other out. We've had Star Wars

versus Star Trek. We've had Thundercats versus

Silverhawks. We had Flintstones versus the Jetsons.

And today we are... kind of going away from the

animated world into two beloved film franchises,

and that is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. Which

franchise is superior? Opening thoughts before

the bell rings, Mike. I love both these series.

Granted, as I've said before in other podcasts,

I'm getting kind of sick of Die Hard 4 or Die

Hard 4 .0 because of the fact of FX and TNT and

everybody shows that movie so many times if you

want to call it by its actual name live free

or die hard I still think Like Bruce Willis had

said he thought that die hard 4 .0 was a better

title than live free or die hard So I call the

movie die hard 4 .0, but I love those. I love

the dire movies all four four of them I have

not seen the fifth one yet lethal weapon Love

lethal weapon. I think it's kind of an unfair

advantage to die hard to be comparing it against

lethal weapon because one franchise has five

the other has four I think maybe we should have

waited until we get if we ever got a lethal weapon

Waiting forever I know I know well, you know

after all, you know, no Mel Gibson has gone crazy

to this point. So hey rigs in real life You know,

and for those people that maybe haven't watched

our other episodes, or maybe they have and they

question things here, I just want to kind of

throw out there that when we put these groups

together, it's 50 % serious and 50 % fun in my

head when I'm coming up with the categories that

we're going to compare. you know some of them

are like definitely things that should be compared

about the franchises but i usually try to throw

some fun stuff in there or some just kind of

like a little bit more relaxed uh things in there

you know i know when we talked about um what

was it silver hawks and thunder cats we compared

the logos and stuff like that so it's a you know

there's a mixed bag of stuff we're comparing

so don't don't be like all crazy about how can

you compare that topic or whatever. Some of it's

meant to be serious, some of it's meant to be

somewhat fun in our quest to find the superior

franchise. Steve, any thoughts before we get

the match underway? On the one hand, I agree

that it may be stacked in Die Hard's favor only

for the fact it has five films, but quantity

does not necessarily mean quality, especially

from what I've heard from the fifth film lately.

But also at the same time It's one of those You

know between the two I mean you have a an action

comedy and then you have more of a an action

you know, just regular action movie and Between

the two they're they're kind of hard to compare

but at the same time you can kind of you know

easily compare them because I mean they they're

huge from back in their day and Somewhat still

hold up today And they both came out in very

similar time periods. Their lifespan was kind

of, if you just take the four movies for each

one and not count this fifth one, I mean, a lot

of their movies almost coincided year -wise.

And, you know, when we were growing up, these

were kind of, as far as like more of an adult

or, you know... Older teen college age people

like these were two of the friend like the go

-to franchises It's not like there was nothing

else around that was doing these types of films

The quality level, you know the number of sequels

that they had so they kind of like I don't know

even though I 100 % agree that One is more leaning

towards the action side of things and one leans

more towards a little bit of comedy I think a

lot of people kind of put these two franchises

in the same grouping when they think about them

in their head and I did try to As much as I can

knowing that there was five movies for one and

four for the other Most of the categories the

number of movies that came out are not going

to affect The game, you know the matchup here

we tried to steer away from that as much as possible

So what I found very glaring about the two franchises

is you have one starting in 87 the other starting

in 88 and one ending at a certain year and the

other continuing through to so I'm not saying

that That die hard is a clear -cut winner But

it just it shocks me going through this just

kind of just glimpsing over the script and over

the topics will be doing that Hey, this movie

came out in 1993 and oh this movie came out in

2000s you know it just the year difference kind

of I was like whoa because there's two totally

different ways to look at both of these franchises

as far as like when you know we always talk about

this stuff date itself I don't know it was just

weird for me looking at the just going through

the categories I can kind of see that. I mean,

like I said, a lot of the films, like the first

one was only a year apart. The second movie,

they both came about a year apart. There was

a three -year span between when they both did

the third chapter. It wasn't until they got to

the fourth one that you really see a big gap.

There was a nine -year difference between when

the fourth Die Hard came out to... compared to

when the fourth Lethal Weapon came out. The Lethal

Weapon was a more compact series. They kept it

pretty steady. The biggest gap was that six -year

gap between three and four, whereas you had a

12 -year gap in between the third and fourth

Die Hard. Like you said, it's not saying it's

good or bad. I could see some people saying that

it's better that all four of the Lethal Weapon

films came out while it was relevant, while people

still had that franchise on their mind. Or some

people could say, well, let's die hard because

it had more longevity or something like that.

So I mean, I can see it kind of go both ways

on that one. Go ahead. Oh, good. I'm sorry. Good.

No, continue. Well, now that I've gone back and

re looked through the script, we are this is

essentially we will be comparing the entire franchise.

Of each to each other and deciding on which franchise

is better But what I'm now noticing is we're

only are really talking about four films, right

for me Like the fifth film it just came out,

right? I haven't seen it. I don't think Steve.

Have you seen the fifth die -hard? I've kind

of glanced through it when I downloaded it I

have yet to actually watch it though. Kevin.

Have you seen it yet? Okay, so out of the three

of us Kevin has seen it Steve is going through

it and I have not yet seen it So I'm okay with

us doing this because now that I see that it's

pretty much four versus four right So that that

yeah, anyway, I do think if it ever did happen

You know, we always talk about oh if they did

us a continuation of this You know, we're kind

of talking about that with Ghostbusters 3. Oh,

a continuation where the main Ghostbusters have

had kids and their kids take over. I honestly

think if Mel Gibson hadn't gone crazy and nuts

and whatever else and Danny Glover's still doing

stuff, he was, I think he's on the Fox series

Touch regularly as a character, so he's still

doing stuff. I think it's possible for a Lethal

Weapon 5. I don't think it'll be a Richard Donner

directed film, but I think it is possible for

someone to take the franchise. Do a fifth movie.

Let's hope it's better than things They were

gonna reboot the franchise and it was gonna have

completely different actors. Yeah playing this

playing the role of Riggs and Murtaugh See, no.

Oh, no. No. All right. Let's Play police Academy.

They're gonna try and do that say same thing

there. So Alright, so what is the first category,

sir? Alright, let's ring the bell and get this

battle underway before we get to some of the

actual movies. I think it only fitting that you

compare the iconic stars of each movie, and I

know, Mike, you might have some issues with this,

but the iconic stars when you think of Lethal

Weapon and Die Hard are John McClane and Martin

Riggs. Bruce Willis, and Mel Gibson. The only

reason why I have a slight issue with this is

because of the way that the first two films were

marketed. Die Hard is one man just stuck in a

totally fucked up situation. Lethal Weapon is

a buddy cop. Serious buddy cop film where you

meet these two characters and Riggs and Murtaugh

and Murtaugh is pretty much the straight man

Riggs is pretty much the crazy So to me leave

the lethal weapon franchise it those two Danny

Glover and Mel Gibson are the main stars This

is more just comparing these care, right? Right.

I I see what you're doing with this. So that's

my work around here. So who is the superior?

Character out of John McLean and Martin Riggs.

I guess is how it goes down now I can kind of

see it a couple different ways You know John

McLean is Against all odds You know doesn't matter

how many things you throw against him doesn't

matter how stacked things are against him. He

finds a way through it And he just cannot be

stopped Riggs although a lot of that same stuff

could be said about him He is you know known

for his Basically being crazy first of all just

being off his rocker, but at the same time being

so crazy that He's not crazy at all. You know

what I mean? It's like he's so crazy, but he

always knows what he's doing basically I don't

know. I kind of see it a couple different ways

if we were going like who's the the tougher,

you know like More resilient, you know as action

star I could see myself siding with John McClain

If we're talking about whose character is deeper

and Whose character has more levels to him? You

know, then I would shift to Riggs because he's

got that crazy side, but he's got a lot going

on He's got you know, he's deals with all kinds

of death close to him You know on top of being

the resilient kind of action star that he is.

So I mean, his character has more depth in my

mind. So I'm kind of undecided on this one. Mike,

what do you think about these two characters?

John McClane is... In the first film, he's all

cop. That's, you know, we see him... going out

to LA to see his kids, to meet with his ex -wife.

When the situation happens, he's all cop, he's

all alone. Sure, he has Carl Winslow as backup

outside, but it's one of those things where he

is that lone, not necessarily lone gunman, but

a lone police officer. He's very much a serious

type of character. sure he has funny lines and

sure he has lines that make us laugh but he's

not like rigs like basically you take a coin

and these guys would be two sides of of a coin

they're so different um on the one hand i can

see mclean getting it because of his his badass

but at the same time as you said with the emotional

kind of like the whole backstory throughout the

franchise of Lethal Weapon coming out about Riggs's

wife and everything else, and this is why he

is the way he is. The difference between the

two is, is that McLean is not suicidal Riggs

is, at least in the first films. Right. McLean

has never been suicidal, well, up until the action

winter blockbuster Die Hard 5, but we're not

talking about that, but anyway. It's one of those

things where it's two very distinctive characters.

If I was just going on, like, picking a favorite

out of the two, I don't think I could. As far

as an overall, like, you know, somebody put a

gun to my head, I have to choose. Who's the better

character? I gotta go with Riggs. He's more dynamic.

He's more... Well rounded you want to know more

about him whereas McLean you want to be a fly

on the wall in whatever situation he's in maybe

not because of all the gunfire, but You know

you you want to be able to see oh my god. It's

John McLean What the fuck is he gonna do now

where his rigs you really get into his head so

Steve what do you think um? See I agree with

both of your guys's points on that whole situation

which makes it even more difficult for me to

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for one, you've got John McLean's hard ass, typical,

well, it wasn't back then, but it is now, typical

action hero. Then you have, like you guys said,

Riggs, who's suicidal in the first one, but he's

kind of nuts. three stooges thing across his

face you know and uh you know just doing all

kinds of weird shit but um on the one hand you

have you know john mclean thrust into all these

funky situations and then you have you know uh

rigs just kind of you know shit just keeps happening

to him Yeah, so I mean both at the same time

they both kind of have that going for him Just

they happen to be you know shit just happens

to them whether it be to their family or otherwise

But I find that a Little bit of rigs like I like

his comedy but at the same time I When I'm wanting

to watch a action film I'm wanting more of Action

and less of joking. So I have to go with John

McClane I'll let you think about that for a second

because for me, it's pretty clear -cut. I will

state for the record. I love both actors both

characters But because we were all about choosing

the better of the two in these categories Have

to go with Riggs. He's he's more a dynamic character.

He he is more Rounded whereas McLean is just

straightforward cop in a bad situation But my

book goes to Riggs, but You know after having

heard a little bit more of that too and and on

the other hand I started thinking about it Riggs

evolves through the series McLean doesn't yeah,

he's playing You know, it's like, throw me in

a situation, give me a paycheck. It's kind of

like that's almost I guess that's almost what

some people find is the charm of Die Hard and

John McLean is that you're getting you continuously

get the same thing over and over and over again.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but I think

that's what some people like it appeals to them

because it's like it doesn't matter what year

it is, what situation it is. Here comes John

McLean and we know exactly what to expect and

what we're going to get. And you're right, he

doesn't evolve. It's like the same thing over

and over and over again. I'm not saying that's

bad necessarily, but I agree that Riggs is the

character that definitely evolves over the course,

especially in those first couple films. Really,

his character develops and evolves, and you kind

of can see the multiple parts of his character.

Go ahead. So, I mean, yeah, to interject, I guess

I'm flip -flopping, but yeah, I guess I have

to go with you guys with rigs just because of

that simple fact alone that while I do enjoy

John McClane's character quite a bit, there is

no true evolution of his character other than

the fact they add his kids later on, which, you

know, I mean, I like the modern situations, but

at the same time, I, you know, it's... And I've

heard from a lot of people especially with this

fifth film and I can't comment too much on it

because I've kind of Browsed through like snippets

here or there until I get time to sit and watch

it. But John McLean I heard that you could basically

replace Bruce Willis in that film and it's you

know It could be just a typical action guy because

you know, he's just kind of throwing out his

lines and not really It's like the least evolved

version of McClane that you can get out of any

of the films. Yeah. So I guess I have to go with

Riggs for this. Yeah, I mean, if you're asking

me like, okay, I have a loved one that's trapped

somewhere, which action star am I going to trust

to... rescue my friend or something. Yeah, I

might go with John McClane because it seems like

that's the badass. He's the one that goes in

and gets things done. But if you're asking me

which character I prefer and which one I want

to watch more or which one I'm more drawn to

in the movies, it's Riggs. Just because I like

I like his character I like the that he's more

real because he has he's an action star in a

sense But he's also more relatable because you

can see his pain. You can see his Mental anguish

as he's dealing with loss or as he's dealing

with this or that Whereas John McClane, it's

almost he's almost such a badass action star

that it's not relatable to Because he's it's

almost you know like a superhero type situation

where you're like, you know, I can't relate to

that guy at all. He's just a badass that gets

things done. Whereas Riggs is like, oh, I can

see, you know, I can, I can, you know, have some

emotion that I can feel and I can, you know,

have some empathy or whatever and sympathy for

him. So I, my vote's for Riggs as well. I, you

know. You know, just really quickly as a closing

thought on the main stars here, the reason why,

another reason why I thought of going with Riggs

is as we've already stated about his character,

but that scene at the end of the first film or

one of the scenes that in the in the first lethal

weapon where roger asks him about being suicidal

and he goes back and yells at him and he's like

you really want to know what i do you really

want to know why i wake up and i don't put the

gun in my mouth the job that's what keeps me

from Killing myself right, you know, and that

is more, you know, like I said as we've already

stated John McClane is even from the first film

he is made to be look look like a superhero like

No cop is gonna walk around a building barefoot

with glass on it, you know You know what? I mean,

it's like You know, I mean it's so yeah rigs

Alright, well we have one more category to get

to before we get to the actual movie breakdown

that we'll be doing over the course of like four

different categories And I wanted to get a quick

snapshot because I think it's only fitting that

we're talking about film franchises And they

did basically have the same director over the

course of the franchise so far so I wanted to

die hard ones did not Not for the last one or

two, but he did for the first three. Oh, no.

Tiernan only did the first one on the first one

on the third one. The best ones of the series.

Yeah, he's the one he's the one known for the

franchise. Right, right, right. One known. I'm

not I'm not saying that, but I actually looked

it up when we were talking about the characters

still because I was like, wait a minute, he didn't

direct all four. But I wanted to get, you know,

kind of a snapshot. This is not. Who did the

better directing on Die Hard or Lethal Weapon?

This is simply who is the better, which franchise

had the better director? And that's John McTiernan

on the Die Hard side and Richard Donner on the

Lethal Weapon side. Just real quick, for those

people that aren't familiar with these guys'

work, I just wanted to break it down real quick

before we talk about it. John McTiernan did Die

Hard, Die Hard III, he did Predator, The Hunt

for Red October, The Thomas Crown Affair, Last

Action Hero, The 13th Warrior, Basic. Those are

probably his most notable. ones. And then on

the other side of things, if we were talking

about Richard Donner. Obviously Superman Superman

2 All four lethal weapon all four lethal weapons

Maverick another Mel Gibson movie Scrooge Goonies.

Yeah conspiracy theory another Mel Gibson movie

16 blocks The toy timeline the assassins radio

fire. So those are kind of what those individuals

have done Mike, what are your thoughts on McTiernan

versus Donner? I gotta go with it If it's just,

like if I'm just looking at the Lethal Weapons

series versus the Die Hard series, I probably

would go with Donner, but I need to clarify that

the Superman 2 Donner cut wasn't something that

was mainstay when Superman 2 came out. There

was the Richard Lester cut that was in theaters.

That was the theatrical version, and then later

is when the Donner cut got released because...

Somehow they they wanted to show of because originally

he directed the first two as you said but Superman

2 they went with Lester's Story as far as what

everyone really saw in theaters As far as directing

the two franchises, I gotta go with Donner on

lethal weapon. Yes, Don McTanner did amazing

job in Die Hard 1 and 3 but Donner told a story

Over four films of these two characters and what

goes on in both of their lives He told his his

writers himself Whoever, you know went into the

process of creating lethal weapon one to four

It's a fluid flowing story. Whereas the die -hard

Direction you had Rennie Harlan directing the

second film and you had Len Lee somebody directing

the fourth film and I don't even know who's directing

the fifth one. But the Die Hard films to me are,

it's just another day in the life of John McClane,

what kind of strange situa - like, if Die Hard

was just Die Hard 1, 3, and 4 that told a fluid

story, I would probably go with McTiernan. Because

die -hard one and three it's the Gruber brothers.

The first one is Hans Gruber the third one and

that's the only two where Bruce Willis his character

actually pretty much had an evolution because

Right. He was able to actually portray that whereas

the second one There's not really all that much

going on there. I mean, it's I don't find it

as interesting as watching the first or the third

film And I find the fourth film only interesting

only for the fact that it's many years later.

So it's showing that, you know, he's just a street

cop and Right If I'm separating these two and

not necessarily looking at their work, because

I think they both did an excellent job with Lethal

Weapon and Die Hard, obviously. Oh, they did.

You know, they made that franchise, both franchises,

is what they are. But if I'm separating them

and just trying to say, like, who's the better

director, then I got to go with Richard Donner.

You know, talk about stuff like the Goonies.

I love conspiracy theory and Maverick and, you

know, to be able to work on both Superman and

Lethal Weapon. I don't know. My choice is Richard

Donner. Yeah, my choice would be Donner, too.

Simply, you know, you keep mentioning Maverick.

You mentioned it over on the DCR comedies episode.

What is so great about Maverick is that Danny

Glover is the robber and he pulls down the mask.

They look at you, nah. Yeah, that was an awesome

part of that movie. Yeah, I love that. But yes,

Richard Donner. What would be my choice? Steve,

what's your choice? Well, I think this is going

to be one of the few unanimous ones here. As

far as I can tell so far. Well, I do like Nick

Tiernan's job done with the Die Hard and Die

Hard with a Vengeance and I like Last Action

Hero. I don't know. He doesn't have as many hit

films as Richard Donner. I mean, you look at

Richard Donner, like you guys said, he did the

Superman one and two. He did all four Lethal

Weapon, which to me, if a director is able to

stick with a series that long and kind of evolve

it, even if it's not a good thing from Michael

Bay perspective. but I'm just saying like in

general if they're able to kind of stick with

a series and Evolve it and kind of keep that

vision going then You know you got to go with

that that guy I mean and he's done a bunch of

hit movies, too I mean you got the goonies in

there and you know like you said maverick and

Scrooge and so I mean he's he's got a lot of

Great stuff under his belt. Oh, yeah Alright,

so we got a unanimous choice here in round two

of our heavyweight bout. And now we're going

to go into the actual films. Now, before anybody

goes off on their opinions, I wanted to do a

couple things here. First of all, a lot of people

probably get... The individual films confused,

you know, which one's one or which one's three

or which one's two as they're trying to think

back You know if they're listening to us So I

want to give a brief synopsis real quick of the

original diehard and the original lethal weapon

We'll do the same as we go through here just

so people remember which movie we're talking

about The original Die Hard, 1988, that's the

one that begins on Christmas Eve, when McLean's

traveling to Los Angeles to spend Christmas with

his wife, who is living in Los Angeles with her

two children. They attend a party at the fictional

Nakatomi Plaza. During the party, East German

terrorists break into the building and take the

party goers hostage. McLean escapes detection

and manages to hide throughout the building,

gradually killing off the terrorist gang and

learning that their real aim is to steal millions

from the building's vault. And when McLean meets

the terrorist leader on Groover, a climactic

battle ensues, and eventually McLean throws Groover

out the window. So that was the first Die Hard.

As far as the first lethal weapon goes, struggling

with age and retirement, homicide detective Murtaugh

is partnered with young and suicidal narcotics

officer Riggs. Together they work the case of

the alleged suicide of Amanda Hunsacker, daughter

of a wealthy businessman who served with Murtaugh

in Vietnam, the classic scene of her naked body

jumping out the apartment. off the ledge of the

whatever it was hotel room. Merton Riggs soon

discovered that Hunsaker was involved in a heroin

smuggling scheme led by a retired general and

his lead enforcer Mr. Joshua. So those are the

first two films I didn't mention but Lethal Weapon

was a year earlier 1987 compared to Die Hard

in 1988. Give you a quick view of how other people

view the films. The original Die Hard has a 94

% on Rotten Tomatoes and Lethal Weapon has a

90%. So they're both pretty well received on

Rotten Tomatoes. Mike, why don't you start off

here. What are your opinions if we're just comparing

Die Hard 1 versus Lethal Weapon 1? Lethal Weapon

1, well, all the cop stuff with Riggs and Murtaugh

is great. The overall plot is so convoluted.

There's so many red herrings. Like, oh, it's

the prostitute Dixie. Oh, there's the guy in

the pool. You're lucky I didn't shoot you. You

know, no, that's not what he says. He says, well,

I haven't shot you yet. You know, well, I like

watching Lethal Weapon 1. It is not my favorite

film of the franchise. I think it's a great introductory

film bringing us into the lives of these characters.

On the flip side of the coin, Die Hard, from

beginning to end is just one action -packed,

slightly story -filled film, where you've got

this guy, who's a cop, thrown into a bad situation,

and he tries everything in his right mind to

get the police here, get the fire department

here, or whatever. Eventually, he runs into...

Officer Al Powell through through radio communication

and all that Honestly, I I Enjoyed die -hard

more than I do lethal weapon one I got to read

the movie poster just because they crack me up

the die -hard one and 12 terrorists one cop the

odds are against John McClain That's just the

way he likes it, but the lethal weapons even

better two cops Glover carries a weapon Gibson

is one He's the only L .A. cop registered as

a lethal weapon. He's the star. Yeah, well, right.

But the campaigns for the movies are all great.

And yes, I do agree. I just like I said earlier,

I see them, especially as the films progress

in a lethal weapon franchise. It is they are

the two stars. You know, I can I can go ahead

and concede that in the first film. Mel is the

star, but as they go on. As I was saying about

Die Hard, it's a really fun film to watch. It

has so many facets. It doesn't really have anything

in it that is too convoluted or red herring -wise,

or it doesn't throw you for a loop. It's a straight

story. These terrorists are breaking into this

building. You think they want one thing. They

really want another thing. You know... And it's

John trying to, he's picking them off one by

one. I think that's the beauty of Die Hard 1

and that's something that really goes in its

favor is that this entire movie, this entire

roller coaster action thrill ride that we're

going through in this movie is all restrained

within that building. Everything happens in that

building and everything revolves around, you

know, the different floors and the different

levels and the different rooms, etc. And I kind

of really appreciate the fact that all of this

is happening in the same location and it almost

makes it like more of an adventure, more of something

that you can... really get into because it's

like he's trapped in this building how is he

going to get out or how is he going to get help

type thing whereas lethal weapon uh i love lethal

weapon one i absolutely love lethal weapon one

and i it but it's all over the place like you

said you're going this way and that way and the

other way and you got all these different things

tied together which somewhat goes against it

what i appreciate out of lethal weapon one though

is just learning about rigs as a character and

really getting to see Mel Gibson play that crazy

part and him and Glover forming that relationship

and getting to see that happen from the beginning.

So I think both films are freaking excellent.

I love the first film in both of these franchises.

So I'm a little bit torn. I'm leaning a little

bit towards Die Hard just because it had a huge

impact on the action genre and made this franchise

and it's probably the highlight of the franchise

for me. Steve, what do you think about the first

one of each one? Well, it's kind of a hard toss

up, like you said. It's hard to top a first movie

of a series, of any series for that matter, and

it's still hard to top both of these because

they're their introductions, it shows what they're

about, it shows what their quirks are and all

that. While I like the the buddy cop system thing

The thing that kind of goes in diehards favor

is you didn't really have a One cop against all

odds Kind of movie at that time. I mean in the

80s. It was filled with buddy cop. I Mean you

can even argue that Beverly Hills cop to an extent

was a buddy cop because you know he had the the

cops from from LA and everything and then you

know there's just the the 80s was just filled

with it and then part of the 90s too but diehard

had that that nice element of the one cop against

you know terrorists you know kind of stuck in

the the heat of the moment you know what what

is he going to do whereas lethal weapons more

of a you know trying to solve this crime and

trying to solve these these problems that are

going on that don't seem interconnected Don't

get me wrong, both of them are great. It's a

hard coin to flip and pick one. But for this

one, I have to say that Die Hard, the first one,

would top Lethal Weapon in the sense that it's

nonstop action fun and I love the fact that it's

just this one cop. I like the fact that there's

one cop. I like the fact that he's isolated in

that building. And it's just something that I

hadn't seen up to that point. It was something

that was unique. Where, as you said, if you really

take away and rip away the characters and some

of that stuff from Lethal Weapon, in the end,

it is just your detective story. You know, I

mean, it really is. I mean, it's a Law and Order

episode. It's a it's a Criminal Minds episode.

It's a whatever. But what makes it seem that

much better is the relationship between Gibson

and Glover, Riggs and Murtaugh, and that kind

of hides and it masks the fact that in the end,

it's just a detective story. Yeah. So we all

vote Die Hard again? Well, for the first time,

we're all going to vote Die Hard. Right. But

I mean, like, as far as like all of our choices,

it's unanimous for Die Hard to win this round.

Correct. So that would take us to the second

film. in each of the franchises. So for Die Hard,

that's coming in 1990. The second film takes

place a year after the events of the first film,

and it's once again on Christmas Eve. This time,

the setting is in Washington, D .C. McClain is

at Washington Dulles International Airport awaiting

the arrival of his wife. Meanwhile, a group of

mercenaries led by former U .S. Army Special

Forces Colonel, that's a lot to say, Stuart,

take over the airport's communication systems,

stranding several planes in the air, including

the one McClain's wife is on. Colonel Stewart's

plan is to free a captured Latin American dictator,

Franco Nero, who is en route to the airport.

McLean discovers the plan, including a conspiracy

between Stewart and an army counter -terrorist

unit sent to stop him. He foils their plans and

provides a visual landing signal for the circling

aircraft by exploding the plane the villains

were using for their getaway. That is a mouthful.

Lethal Weapon, the second one. During a car chase,

Riggs and Murtaugh stumble upon a trunk full

of smuggled South African Krugerrands. This sparks

a series of attempts at their lives, forcing

them to take a less dangerous case, protecting

Leo Getz, a loudmouth whistleblower. However,

they realize that Getz was involved in the same

South African illegal activities. As a result,

they become entangled in a drug smuggling operation

involving South African diplomats in Los Angeles.

Briggs kills the murderer of his wife, who is

among the criminals. So those were the second

movies, Lethal Weapon 2. Rotten Tomato Style

is 82%, whereas Die Hard's second one was a 67%.

I can't believe it's that high, honestly. Yeah,

I have to agree. Go ahead, Mike. Don't get me

wrong. I enjoyed Die Hard 2 when it comes on

TV. I love it. Don't get me wrong. I love the

film. But comparing these two, Lethal Weapon

2 is so much better. Um, Die Hard 2, again, you've

got John McClane thrown into a situation, but

this one, while it has the same humor and feel

of McClane in Die Hard 1, it's just another day

in the life of John McClane, another mission,

another whatever, or, you know, him getting thrown

into another situation that becomes a mission.

I did like the fact that his wife was on the

plane and that you had to try to figure out how

were they going to communicate or how, you know,

that type of thing. And I do think there's some

pretty cool classic iconic things as far as the

plane goes and the explosion, et cetera. But

yeah, the plot for Die Hard 2 to me is a little

all over the place. It is. It's very all over

the place because... Go ahead. uh... well it's

very all over the place because you have so many

different things going on you've got the air

traffic controller stuff here you've got the

actual plane you know i said which is asshole

in the middle of everything you've got this you've

got that you've got all the stuff going on you've

got the two you've got the little general who

we see his ass in one shot you know you you've

got all this stuff and then you have the switcheroo

with the bullets and then you have the switcheroo

with oh the guys that are supposed to be helping

the airport security are actually the team that's

that's with with the j it's too many red herrings

it's too many it's not one straightforward story

i like the fact that john mclean still gets his

line of oh What are the chances this happens

to the same guy twice, you know twice I you know,

I like all of that Don't get me wrong and I like

obviously in the edited version. That's where

we get yippee -ki -yay. Mr. Falcon because obviously

they have to edit it For for television. I like

all that but the story just Does the action holds

up the story does not the story is so convoluted.

It's not no to me the magic of lethal weapon

2 is the fact that From the get -go You know

who the bad people are You know What's all the

African you know what wants what what they want

to have happen, but then you're you're dealing

with the fact that so many times Riggs Has to

deal with the fact that he can't touch these

guys Yeah, I mean like he can't do what he knows

has to be done. He can't just do things the easy

way like he wants you know he has to deal with

all this diplomatic community etc etc and find

a way around it so it's like you it's an interesting

dilemma for this basically this action star to

have where it's one situation where you can't

just be a typical action star and go guns barreling

you know through the doors and everything like

you have to be sly about how you're going to

do this i mean yeah there's some places where

you basically does go guns blazing at times but

but you know just dealing with that whole diplomatic

community is kind of like the magic touch of

Lethal Weapon 2 and it's like an interesting

side to see how are they going to deal with this.

Yeah the thing with Lethal Weapon 2 is as I said

because you've got the same director I don't

know if it was the same writer but you've got

the same guys this it continues the story from

the first film. It brings more depth to both

Riggs and Murtaugh. You've got the line of, oh,

and you've got the introduction of Joe Pesci,

and you've got the introduction of Leo Getz.

Whatever you need, Leo Getz. Get it? You've got

that. You've got that awesome pool scene where

they jump off the building. You've got that.

You've got more insight into Riggs's past because

the South Africans, or at least one of them,

was one of the ones that helped stage his wife's

car accident or they killed his wife. What I

love and what I used to, I actually used to try

to do this myself. I don't recommend anyone do

this. It's kind of like, you know, you watch

WWE or WWF or whatever they're calling themselves

these days. And you're like, kids, don't try

this at home. And there's a bunch of emo 16,

17 -year -olds at home doing backyard wrestling.

As a kid, I always wanted to and tried to do

what Riggs did, popping the shoulder out and

popping it back. That's it. Well, I didn't seriously

try it. You know what I mean? But it's just the

emotion of just doing that. And it's like, oh

my god, this guy has been through hell. And it's,

you know, and of course, the fish, the office

scene, eenie meenie miney, hey mo! You know,

it's just, it's all, the story here is much,

it's a much better told story than what we have

in Lethal Weapon 1. It's far superior and less

red herring -y, if that's even a word, than what

Darkheart 2 is. Because you know, as you said,

you know who the bad guys are, you know what's

going on, you know what they're doing, you just

can't get to them. You have to find a way around

it. You know, so that's why I enjoy Lethal Weapon

2 more than Die Hard 2, Die Harder. Steve, what

are your thoughts on the second installment of

your changes? Actually, you guys pretty much

summed that one up and then went around. And

I cannot argue with it whatsoever. The only thing

I can say is Die Hard 2 does need to die harder.

Lethal Weapon doesn't need anything. It progressed

the natural evolution by adding Joe Pesci. And

it helped bring something fresh to it without

taking away from what was already there. So in

that essence, I have to agree that it was a much

better film. And you get to like, you know, like

you guys mentioned, there's a lot of personal

turmoil with Riggs. Right. So I mean, it's overall

that's just hands down a better film. I've never

seen us agree on so many things. It's amazing.

Hell must have froze over last night. Something.

Alright, so that takes us to category or round

number five, which is the third chapter, Die

Hard with a Vengeance from 1995 or Lethal Weapon

3 from 1992, starting with Die Hard as we normally

have done here. In the third film, McClane is

back in New York City and now is separated from

his wife, suspended from the police force, and

a borderline alcoholic. A terrorist who goes

only by the name Simon threatens to blow up various

locations in the city unless McClane will play

his twisted version of Simon's says, McClane

must solve a number of riddles and challenges

in order to keep the bombs from going off. He

receives the reluctant help of Zeus Carver, played

by Samuel L. Jackson, a shopkeeper from Harlem

who had saved McClane after the first challenge

Simon had put him through. The FBI finally reveal

that Simon is in fact Simon Peter Gruber, the

brother of Hans Gruber who is attempting to kill

McClane in revenge for his brother's death in

the first film. In a subsequent revelation, McLean

discovers that revenge is only a timely and clever

cover story to conceal the true purpose behind

his terrorist activities, the forced depletion

of New York's Federal Reserve. With the help

of Carver, McLean tracks Simon to the Canadian

border. There, in a decisive final confrontation

with the latter in a helicopter, McLean puts

an end to Simon's plan with a handgun and a power

line. As far as Lethal Weapon 3 goes, as Murtaugh,

who is three days away from retiring and rigs

investigator robbery, committed using a duplicate

Die Hard 3. received a 52 % on Rotten Tomatoes

and Lethal Weapon 3 received a 59%. So a 52 on

one hand and a 59 on the other one. So I don't

know, for me, I really like parts of basically

what they came up with for Die Hard 3. Die hard

with a vengeance. Um, number one, I like the

pairing of McLean with the with Zeus Especially

that first scene and how they do that. I like

the fact that instead of kind of It's not McLean

going somewhere or something like that. It was

it was kind of like they just this guy's basically

coming after him So we kind of have a flip there

I like all the different little riddles and challenges

that they have to deal with and I like the fact

that they tied in This character as the brother

of the character from the first film That adds

some continuity and then you can completely buy

that this guy wants revenge And then I like that

it was a cover story and that these actually

going after money I mean it complicates it a

little bit, but I like that Jeremy Irons is cool

So I mean there's a lot of parts about diehard

3 that I like But then there's a lot of parts

about Lethal Weapon 3 that I like. I'm not saying

either one of them is the strongest one of the

franchises by any means, but I like both of them.

Mike, what do you think? Well, I almost wish

at this point that Hans did not die, because

I want Alan Rickman, Jeremy Irons, I want them

together. As groovers, I swear to God because

that would can you imagine how awesome that would

be? That would be so freaking cool. Okay. I'm

gonna start with lethal weapon 3 because I like

the movie I like bits and pieces of it. There

are a couple of times where Instead of shooting

out Leo's tires. I wanted to shoot Leo Because

he's just so friggin annoying but Lethal Weapon

3 When did this come out was this 90 92 Wow I

Know I thought I thought it was closer to I thought

they actually came out in the same year Lethal

Weapon 3 has pretty much I guess Michael Bay

decided to copy the plot because this is pretty

much the plot of sort of bad boys in 95 because

bad boys has a former cop getting criminals into

and stealing heroin whereas this has a former

cop getting you know but anyway the bad boys

is for another day but anyway it's one of those

films that is really enjoyable for the most part

I love how Riggs and like I love how at this

point Riggs in his character development is moving

past Vicky is moving past his dead wife and they've

introduced Lorna. And I love how instead of just

a, to put it in, you know, Wayne Campbell's terminology,

gratuitous sex scene, instead of just having

a gratuitous sex scene, they basically, the way

they bond and the way that, you know, they bond

over bullet wounds and over wounds that they've

gotten. Like, I like that. I think that was an

interesting way to show two cops, even though

she's internal affairs. you know, to find a way

to bond. As far as Marta in this one, I like

his character development of, oh my god, this

kid could have been my kid, you know, because

Nick is kind of hanging out with the wrong crowd.

You know, so I like that about it. Die Hard,

I like pretty much everything about the film.

I love the elevator scene where he kills all

the guys in the elevator. I thought that was

cool. I love the whole thing of introducing these

two pretty much. I don't know how big, I don't

remember how big Samuel Jackson was then. I would

have to look at his filmography to see if he

was huge before this. Oh yeah, he was pretty

big by this time. Right, I'm not saying he wasn't,

but I love the addition of Jeremy Irons and Samuel

Jackson. and then having supporting characters

throughout. I just like the plot better for Die

Hard on this one. I do too, yeah. The best part

about Lethal Weapon 3 is the whole retirement

angle and Murtagh wanting to retire and the whole

thing about, you know, how is this partnership

going to handle that? You know, they've been

together, they've finally learned, you know,

to really work together. Now, you know, one of

them is going to retire type thing. So I like

that angle for the, but that's not the main plot.

That's just, you know, that's kind of the icing

on the cake, so to speak. But as far as a plot

goes, I definitely like. the Die Hard plot better

for the third installment. Steve, what do you

think? This one, I'm going to have to agree with

you guys. I'm going to have to go with Die Hard

as well. I love the addition of Sam Jackson in

it. I love the fact that the villain came after

Bruce Willis' character of John McClane instead

of John McClane kind of stumbling into it. It

brought it more on a personal level because McClain

killed Hans Gruber and then you have Simon that's

like, you know playing games with him and he's

like, I don't know who the hell you are guy and

You know, he finally reveals it and then you're

like, oh shit. It's a revenge plot and but I

mean I just like that overall and Lethal Weapon

3 not that I have anything bad to say against

it, but I just like you guys I found the plot

to be much more interesting and granted it wasn't

confined to like you know a building or an airstrip

or any of that kind of stuff I like the fact

that it all took place within you know the city

for the most part and it made the battleground

bigger but it didn't take away from the plot

And to me it was good, too, to see McLean's character

have to deal with more than just a confined space.

You know, he has to get to this point, to this

point, within a certain amount of time, and he

has to, you know, use different modes of transportation

and stuff like that. So you got to see him on

different grounds here, which was kind of refreshing

to me. And then I like the fact that, you know,

they had to figure out, wait a second, what are

they actually doing? They're not blowing up all

these places, but they're going after the money.

So yeah, Mike, was your official vote for Die

Hard on this one? Die Hard with a Vengeance.

Another reason why I like that one over Lethal

Weapon is mainly for one of the subplots or one

of the running gags throughout the film. It's

not necessarily a gag, but they play down the

whole racial thing where Sam Samuel, where Zeus

is like. Oh, he's basically calling McLean a

racist and McLean isn't even saying that. And

he's like, no, you're just a guy just like, you

know, it has nothing, you know, but at that time

in 95, the whole race thing was really like,

that was really, really big. So I like how they

in with a vengeance, they kind of downplayed

it to the point of I don't care if you're frigging

purple, you know, that, you know, I enjoyed that.

But yeah, my vote is for with a vengeance. It's

Between the two it's much better. All right,

so then we will move on to the next Part of our

fight here is category number six and that is

the fourth chapter obviously and for Die Hard

that comes in 2007 with Live Free or Die Hard.

The fourth film takes place on Independence Day

over a decade after the events of Die Hard with

a vengeance with McLean now divorced from his

wife and estranged from his daughter. A group

of cyber terrorists begin hacking into the computers

of the FBI who send McLean to bring in computer

hacker Matt Farrell to question him about the

cyber attack. In the process a group of assassins

hired by terrorists mastermind, Thomas Gabriel,

attempts to kill McClain and Farrell. Farrell

tells McClain that the terrorists are actually

in the middle of performing a crippling cyber

warfare attack on the infrastructure of the country,

disrupting all power, public utilities, traffic,

and other computer -controlled systems. And the

terrorists later take Lucy and Farrell hostage.

In the end, McClain saves them and foils the

terrorist scheme. And that received a 81%. on

Rotten Tomatoes, 81%. Lethal Weapon 4. While

both Lorna and Murtaugh's daughter, Rhianne,

are pregnant, Riggs and Murtaugh must pair with

rookie detective Lee Butters to investigate a

Chinese immigrant smuggling ring. Hua -Sing Koo

is a ruthless enforcer who personally attempts

to murder Murtaugh's family by burning them alive

in their own home. As the story progresses, Murtaugh

discovers that Lee is the father of his daughter's

unborn child. Marta and rigs slay dozens of Chinese

gangsters and ultimately managed to catch up

with the boss of the smuggling ring and lethal

weapon for received a 54 % So 54 compared to

81 as far as the Rotten Tomatoes go. I will start

with this one real quick. Go ahead. Um, I Remember

Specifically both of these films coming out because

I was already a die -hard and a lethal weapon

fan You know, I had seen the other ones. I was

a huge fan of both franchises I was had no idea

that I eventually I was gonna get to see another

chapter of either one of these remember the fourth

die -hard film is 12 years after the third one

and And the lethal weapon is six years. So to

me these were franchises that had already Did

their whole thing, you know in my early, you

know in my elementary to middle school years

They played themselves out and I was a fan of

them. I had watched them in reruns, etc I never

expected that they would then get rebooted in

my high schools and then the other one passed

my college years But I do remember when lethal

weapon 4 came out and I was really excited about

it And it did not disappoint me I know a lot

of people might rip on it, but I enjoyed lethal

weapon 4 and I thought it was a good Job of rebooting

the franchise, you know these six years later

diehard Me this is a story of two different movies.

I know we're not talking about the fifth movie

But the fourth movie was this long period of

stretch in between the third and the fourth and

it came out and I was a little bit Skeptical

and then I went in and I thoroughly enjoyed it

I also thought it was cool because it was one

of the first I thought it was cool that they

made it current by dealing with Cyberterrorism

yeah and dealing with that type of issue and

and and the idea that someone could you know

disrupt all power all public utilities all traffic

all everything because everything is so interconnected

i thought that was genius and i just i was very

impressed and it did way better than i expected

it to in my mind compared to then when diehard

five comes out and it just really kind of laid

an egg um i mean it does have its decent parts

but it It was very disappointing Kind of so it's

like the right way to do things all these years

later or the wrong way to do things all these

years later So I like the fourth installment

of each one because neither one of them should

have been good and they both to me were Well

the thing about Live I can't it's die -hard 4

.0. Damn it. That's what it is The thing about

the fourth die -hard film as you said, it's all

these years later McLean is basically a beat

cop at this point like you would think that throughout

the four films that he would have I know he wouldn't

want to do this but you would think that they

would promote him or something like they would

give him like sergeant or lieutenant or something

that wasn't behind a desk but still had you know

what I mean it still had the promotion without

putting him behind a desk I really missed the

PC versus Apple commercials. One of the first

things I thought of with this movie, because

Justin Long was the Apple guy in that thing.

And Kevin Smith. Yeah, yeah. Well, Kevin Smith,

that's one of the main reasons I think why this

fourth film even got made. He originally, I could

be wrong, I'm not looking at the internet, I'm

not looking at any information, but I could have

sworn that they wanted him to write a pass on

this or somehow be involved with this. And I

think on all the special features, he's talking

with Bruce Willis or something. I remember something

with the two of them getting together and sitting

down and talking. You know you get Kevin Smith

and this is as a guest as the warlock or warlord

or whatever his name is. Warlock. Yeah. But Die

Hard 4, I liked it. I thought it was great. The

cyber terrorism was something new, something

different, something... It's something relatable

to today's age. Right. Right. Because it did

come out in 2007. The thing is, again, you boil

it down. Between Die Hard 1, 3, and 4, they are

all... Oh, I need to get the financial information

of everybody. Yes, I get the thing of Die Hard

4 being the whole thing of, oh, we're going to

basically darken the entire country. You know,

we're going to deprive everybody, but in the

end, it's just a robbery. You know, I don't know.

I do like the angle of dealing with a new group

for Lethal Weapon 4 and dealing with the Chinese

terrorists. There were some very funny scenes

with some of those guys and it was a new style

of something that Riggs was going to have to

go against, dealing with this martial artist.

So I thought that was kind of an interesting

thing, and I thought it worked for lethal before.

I just wanted to add that in there. It did lethal.

Okay. Something I didn't bring up a second ago

when we were talking about lethal three and die

hard three, something I wanted to bring up here.

What I love about lethal three and four, the

opening scenes. This is how you do a movie that

you want it to look like it's starting out being,

oh, just another day in the life of whomever.

With in the third movie they had the car bombing

scene or the car blew up in the building blew

up In the fourth movie, you've got Van Halen's

fire in the hole blaring as mr. Flamethrower

is is terrorizing everybody in the rigs is like,

yeah Strip down to your skivvies and are those

little hearts and go out and dance and cluck

like a chicken? Keep dancing. I need him to turn.

I need I need to hit that That napalm tank, you

know, I love those because you can have a, you

can have scenes like those in a movie kind of

showing, oh my God, this is another day in the

life of Riggs and Murtaugh. And then go into

the actual story of what the movie is that has

nothing to, it kind of, obviously it does have

a running gag because Riggs took, you know, there

was a picture in the paper and obviously he's

like, Yeah, I don't know who keeps doing this.

Whoever keeps doing this, I'm gonna kick your

ass later." And he puts the picture back up.

You know, he always likes screwing with Murtaugh.

And again, it's the culmination of that franchise.

At this point in the fourth film, they are two

best friends. Murtaugh's family is Riggs's family

with Lorna and everybody else. and you've got

the introduction of Chris Rock, the worst voice

actor on the planet, that doesn't deserve a million

dollars per job. You've got him coming in as

the father of Rhian's baby. I'm honestly surprised

they did that. I'm surprised that somehow they

didn't work around the fact from the first film

that Rhian had a huge crush on. I'm really surprised

that that never happened. I like how the whole

thing of with Lorna being pregnant and She reveals

the secret to rigs and and she's like you can't

tell Roger He'll go he'll go crazy. And then

of course by the time the the dentist office

scene is I love Uncle Benny You know, you got

the dentist scene and they're all inhaling the

the the laughing gas and of course he punches

him, why didn't you tell me? I just, I love both

of these films, Die Hard 4 and Lethal Weapon

4, I do. I don't know, go ahead. Well I just

want to say real quick though, to me what it

boils down to for these two is as much as I was

impressed with Left 4 Your Die Hard, As much

as I expected it to be a flop and it wasn't and

I was so pleasantly surprised and I enjoyed it

Napa guy knows not to judge a man by his cars

multicolor paint job or absence of modern gadgetry

Who cares if it's technically old enough to vote

and the windows are powered by the strength of

your left arm Your monthly payment is zero and

it'll stay that way because with over five hundred

thousand parts in a little Napa know -how You

can keep anything on the road. She may not be

pretty To me it wasn't a flop because it was

a decent movie, but it was almost like it was

a decent standalone movie It is yeah, I mean

see I don't get Like with lethal weapon, they're

all they all feel like the same like they're

all within that same universe They're all connected.

They do a better job of connecting all four of

those movies Whereas live for your die -hard

could almost be like it's standalone movie with

just another person Like we kind of said with

about die -hard five, you know You still get

all the cool John McLean moments and you know,

it makes it die -hard but To me, it's not as

connected with the franchise as I feel like Lethal

Weapon 4 is. Yeah, as I stated before, Lethal

Weapon 1 through 4 is an entire saga story with

these... They are character -driven movies with

the main stars and with the supporting cast and

families and everything else. And the whole point

of this movie at the end is, are you all friends?

No, we're family, because at that point... You

know, from Lethal Weapon 1 to 4, by Lethal Weapon

4, Riggs is gonna get married again. They're

having a kid. You know, he's not that, you know,

I just get up for the job and I don't put the

gun in my mouth. He's not that character anymore.

He's grown up. They even say it in the movie.

We're not too old for this shit. You know, I

mean, he even said, of course, they'd start saying

in the beginning, oh, we're too old for this

shit. But then they go, we're not too old for

this shit. So his character has come pretty much

full circle. Well, and to me, I think it's easier

for the Lethal Weapon to feel like a Lethal Weapon

movie because it's more than just one person.

It's all of them. You know, it's been building.

You have Riggs and Mertan, and you had Leo Getz,

and then you had, you know, Rene Russo's character

and Chris Rock's character. You know, they've

all... coming in and you know about Riggs and

Murtaugh's family especially Murtaugh obviously

his family is involved and and they appear in

all the movies so I mean it's very easy for it

to feel like a lethal weapon film because you

have all of these people whereas Die Hard is

a one -man show that is both the beauty of it

and in I guess some ways the curse of it Yeah,

because it becomes very hard for you to make

it feel like a die -hard film and not just another

film with John McClain Right. And like I said

earlier, I do What I like about the last two

die -hard films is that over the years since

the first three since the trilogy I guess you

could call it a trilogy the second one not really

but the first three You've got the whole thing

of oh his wife his his his wife and him are separated

Oh his ex -wife, and they and you've got the

kids in the first movie by the fourth movie You've

got his daughter's all grown up and now in the

fifth movie you got his son coming back So I

like that about those two films, but as you said

it's Pretty much one man versus an entire family

I love what I love about lethal for is how Leo

has pretty much he hasn't calmed down his his

his antics, but They're more subtle like the

scene that makes me laugh so much in lethal four

is The phone scene they're fucking me with the

cell phone like that whole that whole I love

that that scene is so Amazing, you know say what

you want about Chris Rock now, but Chris Rock

then Leo's like Yo Riggs, who's the perp? Oh

just cuz I'm a black man sitting in the back

of the police car. You think I'm a perp? Here's

the gun. Here's the badge I just I find that

Lethal Weapon 4 is the better film out of the

two for the family aspect for the character development

for the overall story Story of family as far

as the plot goes. It's pretty much. Hey, I need

to get my older brother out of customs it's I

I think the plot of die -hard 4 is better than

the plot of lethal weapon for but overall I would

pick lethal for in this instance I I enjoy watching

that one better than the die -hard for Steve

will give you a chance to talk finally Sorry,

um, I preferred die -hard for Only I mean I love

I actually like this lethal weapon more so than

some of the previous ones and This diehard I

like I wouldn't go so far as you know it's not

better than the first one obviously, but it's

better than the second one and I am Assuming

it's better than the fifth one at this point

But I like the fact that it's you know modern

-day I like the fact that it's you know his typical

character it's I don't know overall I find the

even though the recurring theme of you know bleeding

everyone dry of their money in that series even

though that there's that I find it funny that

the whole thing is kind of something that could

you know basically happen and you have him kind

of in the middle of it just by happy accident

while basically being bored and bothering his

daughter out in the middle of nowhere. So it

gives kind of a little bit of a family element

there, but not really so much. Lethal Weapon

4, you get, you know, like you guys said, all

the family, you get Chris Rock in there, you

get, you know, of course the cast saying, you

know, I'm getting too old for this shit and stuff

like that. So, but... I find myself enjoying

Die Hard more in this essence just because I

just enjoy the one centric, more so hero of the

day, if you can call him that, and the fact that

he throws a police car into a helicopter and

so on. I find it more of a fun action film. Even

if it doesn't quite connect all the way with

the rest of the die -hard films as it could have

There's still enough there to pull it back in

so I'm gonna have to vote live for your die -hard

Alright, so that is six rounds through so far.

We've gotten through all of the movies that we're

gonna cover Like I said, we're not gonna cover

in the really in too much depth the fifth die

-hard one So we're gonna send our combatants

back to their corners for a second So I can get

some words of advice from their their ringmen

and whatnot before we continue this 20 round

heavyweight fight. So stay stick with us Alright,

so they've got their advice and they've got water

down here, so it's time to continue the heavyweight

bout. And what better way to do that than with

our seventh category, which is the original bad

guy. We have Alan Rickman as Hans Gruber versus

Gary Busey as Mr. Joshua. Which franchise has

the better iconic villain mic? It's so hard to

choose though. It's yeah because like the other

films in the franchises the other Four films

with each of the franchises. Okay. Sure Simon

or yeah. Yeah Simon was a good bad guy, but man

the main one I like Alan Rickman for all of his

sarcasm and just the way he smiles as Hans and

just the way he portrays being stupid when he

meets up with John and I like that. Um, with

Mr. Joshua, again, you have continuity with Riggs

because they... Somehow they're linked with being

in the same special forces. Something like that,

yeah. you know somehow they're linked and they

just turn into mortal enemies um i like all of

his lines at the same time i i like both of them

i think the person that adds more to the individual

film though for me at least is hans groover um

he runs the show he is the the end all be all

that we're after this whole entire time he's

the one calling the shots Uh, Mr. Josh was probably

more intimidating of a character or kind of more

of a scary character. But for me, Alan Rickman

is the one that adds more to the movie. So my

vote is going to be for, for Alan Rickman and

Hans Gruber and Die Hard on this, but they are

both crazy good bad guys. What about you, Steve?

Um, I'm going to also have to vote Hans Gruber

because, um, He just plays a bad guy or like

just kind of a dark kind of shadowy character

really well You know Alan Rickman is I? Mean

granted a lot of his characters. You know have

the same kind of Way they carry themselves to

some extent, but I just liked his Persona of

this this character. You know I'm a civilized

you know guy you know kind of villain but he's

you know not afraid to get his hands dirty I

agree Mike um yeah I gotta go with I gotta go

with Hans because mr. Joshua is following the

orders of edward montgomery oh i'm sorry that's

darman greg reference because mitchell ryan was

the better than that you know it's one of those

things where mister josh was falling orders he

even though he is the main antagonist he is still

a soldier following an order and he's like oh

yes sir yes sir yes sir general or whatever he's

he's a yes man to this guy and he doesn't really

i would have found it more plausible for him

being a bad guy if it was him Doing the water

shock treatment to rigs not the big dumb fat

guy or whatever. You know what I mean? It's like

get your hands dirty dumbass You know our fault

you use your nose But yeah, no Hans Gruber hands

down out of these two he's he's so much more

ruthless and conniving and He will kill people

no matter what and he you know, you know Hans

booby, you know You know, but yeah Hans Gruber

hands down. All right, so that does it for round

number seven going into round number eight We're

dealing with the women of the franchise Now you

can look at this any way you want to you can

look at it as who are the better? Characters

with more likeable characters who are the hotter

women? I don't care how you look at it, but we're

looking at the women of both franchise So for

die -hard you're basically looking at his his

one -time wife His daughter and a couple bad

women actually Milan and Irina from the latest

movie. As far as Lethal Weapon, you're dealing

with a lot of Riggs's women that he falls for.

You have Rika Van Den Haas. It's never good to

be one of Riggs's women because you'll end up

dead usually. You have Rene Russo's character.

You have the doctor. the psychiatrist that was

always trying to get rigs to sit down and be

good about things. So Mike, what are your thoughts

on the women of both franchises? The women of

Die Hard, I think that, you know, I think it's

great that they brought the daughter in and they've

got a really great actress in Mary Elizabeth

Winstead playing her in Die Hard 4. His wife,

Really the best thing she ever did was when she

punched out um yeah the reporter The principal

Ridge Richard Thornburg, that's I was I was I

was thinking Lindbergh for some stupid reason,

but no it's Richard Thornburg Maggie Q as as

May Lynn was probably the best one out of die

hard as far as like the villain and she was just

so badass and I mean John was pretty much taunting

Gabriel with yeah when are you gonna get another

one of those chicks you know you know you know

I mean that that was just amazing yeah for for

die for for lethal weapon though I gotta go with

Lorna Cole because she is she's pretty much the

female right you know you think that she's just

gonna be a regular you know stick up your ass

internal affairs officer but no she really wants

to find what's really going on and she wants

you know she's not just out to shut them down

um i like her Amanda Hunsacker, I don't count

her at all. I know, I just had to put her on

there and she got naked. Well, yeah, but she

was in one scene, she jumped off the building,

and then she was in a videotape later, so I don't

really count her. I love the dynamic between

Riggs and Stephanie Woods. It's so, so amazing

and so awesome. I've seen the women of Lethal

Weapon are more memorable across the board. Whether

they're in one scene or whether they're a main

character, they just make more of an impact for

me. um whereas some of the women from diehard

i kind of forget about yeah pretty much um the

only woman you didn't really list in here is

um that butch looking chick from with a vengeance

that is is simon's wrench um but not that really

she really matters either way but yeah on this

one i pick i pick lethal weapons women steve

any thoughts on the women um I'm gonna have to

go I'm just gonna vote die -hard Just is just

a mess with like because I have no preference

here for the most part. All right fair enough

Then let's move on to round nine. Oh, go ahead.

What was your vote? What was your vote? Oh, I

vote lethal weapon. OK. For freaking Rika Vanden

Haas. Yeah. Not a big Rene Russo fan, but like

I said, I just think it made more of an impact.

In this character, she's in that character, she's

damn good. And then the next round, we're looking

at all the other bad characters. I mean, we looked

at Alan Rickman and Gary Busey, but there was

a lot of other epic and iconic bad characters

in this franchise, both franchises. So Die Hard,

we're talking about Alexander Gudinov as Carl.

We have General Ramon Esperanza, Simon Peter

Gruber, obviously the one played by Jeremy Irons.

And then the two newer ones, Thomas Gabriel played

by Timothy Alphont and Yuri Kamarov, played by

Sebastian Koch. The big ones for me here, or

the big one, is obviously Simon. Maybe Carl,

a little bit. And then for Lethal Weapon, you

had Mitchell Ryan as General Peter McAllister.

Joss Acklin as Rudd, Arjun Rudd, diplomatic community.

Derek O 'Connor as... Peter Worstead, Stuart

Wilson as Jack Travis, Kim Chan, or not Kim Chan,

that was not supposed to be there, Jet Li as

Wa Sen Ku. So those were kind of the other bad

characters. So Mike, what do you think? Who had

the better bad guys? Which franchise? Overall,

I gotta say Lethal Weapon. Well, I do love Simon

Gruber and Thomas Gabriel. Like, Carl? Really?

like uh travet was a better bad carl was oh my

god they killed my brother i'm going to murder

him that to me it's like if you add the main

bad guys if you have if you add alan rickman

and gary bucey it may be enough to sway it to

die hard because then you get alan rickman and

uh uh... here's the center center but when you

take those main two ones out in your life with

all the side ones or the the secondary ones to

me you know just gently joss ackland and and

mitchell ryan lately the weapon has the better

secondary bad guys for me and the reason why

it has the better secondary bad guys is because

peter vorstead the other South African, he was

the one that basically told Riggs that his wife

was, like, that's why Riggs has all, it's not

just that he wants to get Rudd, it's that once

he finds that out he's like, I'm going after

these fuckers, Raj, I'm taking my truck, I'm

gonna hook it up to their stilt house and I'm

gonna pull that fucker down, you know? That whole

thing, and that's what's so great about Lethal

Weapon 2 is that you see the character development

in Rigs and you see why that is and what happens

with that. So I have to pick Lethal Weapon 2s

back. It's interesting that both franchises you

get the diplomats, you get the hired guns, or

just the badass action star against them. So

they each have the similar types. Steve, which

bad guys do you like out of these franchises?

Honestly for the secondaries I'm gonna have to

go with lethal weapon just because The the guys

that are that are there Not only the actors,

but just their characters in general were just

Better evil characters, I mean the other ones

were Like one -dimensional, I mean they were

just kind of there No, I completely agree and

I think that you just have more memorable faces

and more memorable characters that are birthed

in the lethal weapon franchise Outside of the

Gruber's I think diehard falls a little short

as far as the bad characters go Oh most definitely

so round ten halfway point here is the rest of

the characters that we find in these franchises.

You know, it might not be the women or the bad

characters, but just who else shows up? I guess

the highlights for me for Die Hard, number one

would be Sergeant Al Powell, would be Zeus Carver.

These are Samuel L. Jackson and Reginald Vail

Johnson. Those are the main ones. You do have

the cop that's in all of them. this one which

would be what you said Richard Thornburg you

mean the reporter I'm sorry the the reporter

and the cop captain or not who's the it's you

left him off of here what the hell is wrong with

you you left The damn principal from freaking

breakfast club. Yeah, do I know no, no. No, there

is Dwayne T Robinson. Yes. Yeah, so you have

him He's in well, you know, he's kind of a recurring

the first film in the first one as the head cop

of in charge of McLean you got the reporter and

then you got like I said the dad from Family

Matters and Samuel Jackson. So those are kind

of the highlights. I mean you do have Kevin Smith

and Dennis Ron's a couple other people but you

know And then Lethal Weapon, it's the main recurring

ones here. Obviously, our Leo Getz, Danny Glover

gets put in here with Roger Murtaugh. Captain

Murphy, he's... What's that? I don't... Captain

Murphy's in multiple films. He's in them all,

actually. Yeah. So you have more variety and

more number of characters in the diehards because

most of them are only in one film Lethal weapon

you're gonna have less characters because most

of them are in two three four films. Yeah Gotta

give it to die -hard on this one while I love

I just don't agree with but I I know why you

did it I get why you did it I don't agree with

putting Danny Glover Roger Roger Murtaugh as

as the supporting he's not a supporting cast

member in those films He's he's a lead, but I

understand why for the purposes of this episode

that you did that As far as the die -hard ones,

you've got so many memorable ones there, you

know Paul Gleason, William Atherton, Reginald

L. Johnson, Dennis Franz, you've got so many,

you know, memorable ones there. And in Lethal

Weapon, you've got Chris Rock, Joe Pesci, Danny

Gleason, you know. I get to give it to Die Hard

on this. They have slightly better supporting

characters because of what roles the supporting

characters play in each one of the films. I think

you had so much potential there, though. The

crime of Die Hard is that you don't see some

of these characters more. Right, exactly. Because

there are some really good characters. Go ahead,

Steve. As far as the secondary characters, I

just... I find the supporting cast for Die Hard

just much more... I mean, both sets are memorable,

don't get me wrong, but I like the secondary

characters in Die Hard a lot. However, you almost

have to go with Lethal Weapon too, just because,

I mean, Murtaugh and Leo Getz, and all of them.

And then... So, I mean, it's kind of a toss up

there, but I think that for staying power through

the films, I'd have to say Lethal Weapon wins

it just because, you know, they stick around

longer than two films. That's true, and I think

that's like I said it's kind of the crime of

die -hard This is they create some of these very

memorable likable characters, and then they don't

ever let them come back now I know McLean's in

different areas and different locations etc etc

But it would have been cool to have a little

bit more connection between them Yeah, I mean

I'm gonna give a vote to die -hard I guess just

because there's there's so many different people

that you know there's something for everybody

But I do like what lethal weapon did with their

characters better. Yeah So going into round 11,

which is basically Which is the better premise?

Overall, what is the better backstory? What is

the better idea for a movie if you know if someone

was coming to your studio and they were pitching

the idea for die -hard or Pitching you the idea

of lethal weapon without any of these actors

without any of the stuff we see they're just

pitching you the the story idea Which one would

you have been more interested in, Mike? If they

are pitching me all four Lethal Weapon films

as an ongoing story? Or just we're gonna do a

franchise of movies about buddy cops, one's crazy,

you know, one's older and near retirement compared

to, you know, we're gonna pitch you a story about...

And make a difference. Yeah. Honestly, I... I

gotta go with Lethal Weapon because... It has

more throughout the four films and throughout

lately if someone just said we're gonna make

four films They're all gonna connect to each

other in one way or another and they're gonna

tell a story I would go with that more because

the die -hard films each of those films while

they are all you know one three and four have

their have their moments and They're great moments

the other two two and five just almost don't

even fit at all And they have, it's basically

one guy thrown into a situation every time. We

don't really have, as we've said, yes, we have

the character of John McClane and what he stands

for and how his McClainisms are, but it's pretty

much, you know, a day in the life of Empire City

against, you know, it's... It's one of those

things where it's, it's just like one cop thrown

into a situation where is the, the, the, I gotta

vote lethal here. Cause it's the better story.

I don't necessarily disagree that it might be

the better story, but if I'm getting pitched

those two ideas, I think, um, especially in the

time period, late eighties that they're getting

pitched. Um, for me, if someone pitches the idea

of lethal weapon, it's something where I would

be like, well, what makes this different than

all the other buddy cop films we've seen, you

know, uh, To me, it's not the premise that makes

Lethal Weapon, it's really the characters that

make it work because otherwise it's just one

of a dozen buddy cop films, whereas the other

one, it's like someone's pitching me the idea

of Die Hard in that time period. Yeah, I've seen

situations where we have one action hero, like

in an Arnold movie or whatever, Jean -Claude

Van Damme or whoever, where it's one guy that

just takes on everything, but I haven't seen

it in the fact where... We're gonna have this

situation where everything gets thrown at this

cop. This one cop who's not on duty, who doesn't

have the protection of his police force, etc.

But we're just gonna have this one police officer

who's gonna have to battle everything. He's gonna

have to be, you know, it's like you're rooting

for the underdog. Like this guy that, yeah, he's

a cop, but you don't expect him to be like a

superhero. So to me at the time when these were

pitched and what else was out there, I probably

would have been more interested in the premise

of Die Hard. Just because it seemed like it'd

be more unique So that's where I'm gonna go with

this one Steve you have to break the tie I'm

Going die -hard because I like the Not only the

premise, but I like the you know the one cop

against all odds And he has helping hands, but

he has helping hands, but it's it's still So

different than the buddy cop And it's different

than one superhero or one gladiator type strongman.

Yeah, just a normal guy. Yeah, it's like a beat

cop here. So I'm in agreement with you. So that

round will go to Die Hard, which takes us to

our next break so that our combatants can get

their rest and get their water. You got to stay

hydrated. So stick with us and we will be back

to finish this heavyweight bout. Hey, how'd it

work? Do you got any Christmas music? This is

Christmas music! All right, so remember back

in the opening when I said that not all topics

and rounds would be super serious Well, that's

a good thing to bring back up here as we get

to round 12, which is well Everyone knows that

these are Christmas movies, right? The Christmas

spirit round which movie had more Christmas spirit

Which movie is more of a Christmas movie? Well,

let's break it down a little bit real quickly

before you guys give us your votes. Opening Christmas

Carol. Die Hard really didn't have any, but they

did have Christmas in Hollis run by Run DMC in

the limo at one point. Lethal Weapon started

off with Jingle Bell Rock. Gets us in the mood

before we switch to an ominous score over a topless

girl launching herself from a 20 -story building.

So they did have some Christmas songs there.

Characters in the Christmas spirit. Die Hard.

John McLean whistles Jingle Bells when he first

arrives at Nakatomi Tower. And Lethal Weapon,

we have a quintet of police officers practicing

a rendition of Silent Night, a cappella in the

precinct. How about Christmas set pieces? Die

Hard, Mr. Takagi throws a heck of a Christmas

bash on the 30th floor. Lethal Weapon, the Murtau

home is decked out for the season. Riggs participates

in a heroine firefight in a Christmas tree lot.

How about the best Christmas gag? Die Hard, Hans

Gruber discovers one of his thugs dead in an

elevator strapped to a chair with a Santa hat

and... Quote, now I have a machine gun. Ho, ho,

ho, scrawled in blood on his sweater. Lethal

weapon, Mr. Joshua enters the Murtaugh residence

looking for blood when he finds a Christmas carol

playing and Ebenezer Scrooge asking, what day

is it? He shoots out the TV and yells, it's goddamn

Christmas. See, Mike, you didn't realize these

movies were Christmas movies. How about a closing

Christmas carol? Die hard, let it snow, cute,

as paper falls from the sky from the exploded

top floors of the Nakatomi Tower. And Lethal

Weapon, you have I'll Be Home for Christmas,

sweet, as Riggs joins the Murtaugh clan for Christmas

dinner. There is so much Christmas about these

movies, more than I ever thought. Which movie

is more in the Christmas spirit, Mike? Lethal

Weapon. I'm sorry, Die Hard is a movie that takes

place at Christmas. It's not a Christmas movie.

Neither is Lethal Weapon. They both have a lot

of... Exactly. There are action films that just

happen to be set during Christmas time. There

you go. But I don't know. I just thought it was

funny that he had this many different Christmas

things. Some of them I even forgot about. I almost

have to give it to Lethal Weapon just for freaking

Mr. Joshua saying it's goddamn Christmas as he

shoots the damn TV. But I do remember all the,

you know, Die Hard with Bruce Willis whistling

the Christmas tunes and, you know, the let it

snow playing as the paper's falling. Steve, which

one's a better Christmas spirit? Die Hard. I

have to say that just because you have two films

around that time. Yeah, and that's what I'm going

to give it to you. You have two different films

set during the Christmas time compared to just

the one for the lethal weapon. So I will give

this crazy category to Die Hard as well. And

then we'll move on to what should be a very quick

and easy round, which is round 13. Which franchise

has the better catchphrase, Lethal Weapons, I'm

getting too old for this shit, or Die Hard's

Yippee -ki -yay motherfucker? Mike? Um... This

shouldn't even be thinking about it. You know

it's funny, Mike says one of them all the time.

Yeah, I... Just go ahead. I know which one you're

gonna say just because you say it all the time.

I'm gonna go with Die Hard this time, Rob. Oh,

you broke the curse. Fuck you. Well, because

it's one of those things that everyone knows

the line, not only the regular line, Yippee -ki

-yay, motherfucker, but they also know from the

edited version of Die Hard, too, Yippee -ki -yay,

Mr. Falcon. Everyone knows that, everyone says

that. As far as I'm getting too old for this

shit, it's a great line. and everything else

and it completes the story of throughout those

four films, but I gotta give it to Die Hard this

time. Uh, Steve? Die Hard. And Die Hard. Come

on, that's one of the most iconic phrases of

our generation. And he uses it in more than one

film. Yeah, it's just awesome. It's iconic. So

we will move on to, it is a very close fight

coming on so far. We're going on to round 14,

which may also be somewhat easy to tell here,

but which movie had the better action sequences?

Both of them had a lot of action sequences, and

you know, I can think of Lethal Weapon when they're

pulling the house down from the stilts. You know,

there's that cool scene in the front yard of

Murtaugh's house when Riggs and Washington McCall

are going at it. You know diehard has a lot of

you know the action scene with the plane etc

Like which film franchise had the better action

sequences Any film that has an exploding toilet

wins it You know as a side story real quick when

I was a kid I Watch that scene and I actually

decided that I needed to I thought I caught a

glimpse of something in that scene And I had

to go back and actually pause play it frame by

frame When the toilet is flying through the air

and you can actually see shit in the toilet But

no overall If you're just looking at which film

has the more explosions or the better explosions,

it would go to Die Hard. But if you're looking

at action overall in four films, I don't know.

I gotta give it to Lethal, because it's got some

amazing stuff there. You know, you've got, what

was it in Lethal? Yeah, Lethal Weapon 3. The

police officer, the lady police officer, hey,

I'm gonna take a swim. Boom! Off the diving board.

You know, so, I gotta give it to Lethal in this

one. What about you, Steve? I'm giving it to

Die Hard just because, uh, who the fuck throws

a car into a, into a helicopter? Yeah, I... To

me, Lethal Weapon has maybe some of the more

class, or more of the memorable individual scenes,

but if you're taking it overall, I think Die

Hard has more of them. Like, more action scenes

overall. And that's what it's known for it is

the action film. So I got to give this one to

die hard as well And we will flip the script

with around 15 then Which films funnier which

film franchise is funnier Mike? We have a weapon

hands down They because they are centered around

it's a buddy cop. Yeah. Yeah, buddy cop films

are naturally funny Right, exactly. Where Die

Hard, yes, McClane has some funny lines, yes,

some of the villains have some funny lines, but

it's not... The Die Hard franchise takes itself

more seriously. I mean, the funniest stuff that

happens in the Die Hard things that I can think

of that would make it a comedy is when Kevin

Smith opens his mouth in Die Hard 4. You know,

that's... that's pretty much... the comedy of

those movies, but Lethal Weapon does the comedy

better. Alright, fair enough. I also agree that

Lethal Weapon is the funnier film series. Yeah,

as Mel Gibson takes the cake there, and then

you add in people like Chris Rock and Joe Pesci.

It's a hands -down comedy for Lethal Weapon for

me, and you know, I obviously expected action

to go Die Hard's way and comedy to go Lethal

Weapon's way, so that was kind of a wash, but

we just had to sell it either way. Which takes

us to the next round, which may seem superficial,

but which franchise had the better movie posters?

Die Hard. Die Hard. Slash trailers, slash marketing,

slash whatever you want to say, but especially

the movie posters. So you guys are both going

Die Hard? Okay, well if you're just talking posters,

Die Hard. If you're talking about trailers and

teasers and whatever else, I can't choose between

those because they equally had both. It depends

on the film. It depends on the film, but like

you said, with the opening... Theatrics of of

Lethal Weapon one, you know, Mel Gibson is a

lethal way, you know But die hard as far as just

the posters it has the better looking posters

out of the four I thought the Lethal Weapon one

movie poster was good and Then I think after

that it just kind of gets generic Yeah, well,

it's a repeat of the same thing. It's just with

color and then they they zoom out Yeah, well

with or add more people I'm gonna I'm gonna go

back up to the film section with with diehard

Okay, sure. It's it's one guy against the world

with lethal weapon It's hey, let's do black and

white and red all over with with with rigs. It's

funny though How similar the the first two posters

are for for lethal? Yeah, it's a weapon one and

diehard one Yeah, you have it. You have Murtaugh

with his gun pointing up and they're almost paralleling

each other Right, but if you look at lethal,

one and lethal two, they're pretty much the same.

That's what I'm saying, it gets generic. They're

doing the same thing over and over again. Yeah,

and then, you know, three you add in Pesci, and

then four you add in the entire cast, where die

-hard four is just bald Bruce Willis. Yeah. I

love that. No, no, wait, wait. I love that. Die

-hard, the original die -hard, he has hair. Die

-hard two, he has hair that glows with like a

fire. Die -hard three, he's got hair still, and

then by the fourth, oh. He went bald. OK, so

I think we're all going die hard on the movie

posters. Yeah, they're just a little more creative

all the way through. This one is one that you

kind of have to think about because we're it's

so hard to think because we're all just so accustomed

to die hard. It's lethal weapon. Like we're just

used to those names. But when they came up with

the original titles to these first movies, what

was the more ingenious title Die Hard or Lethal

Weapon? Steve, you go. Well, for me, this is

kind of a wash, in a sense, because Die Hard,

granted that's kind of a vague but simple action

film title, but they have subtitles with each

film, whereas Lethal Weapon is just an extra

numerical number on it, whereas Die Hard only

did that for the second film, but they still

had a subtitle. But as far as breaking down the

basic titles, Die Hard versus Lethal Weapon,

as far as the title, Lethal Weapon sounds more

action -packed than just Die Hard. It just draws

more attention to that title. But at the same

time, like I said, it washes just because one

adds just a numerical... I was think and the

other had subtitles I love the fact when some

people find it just stupidly cheesy and whatnot

But I love the fact when movies don't just do

a two three four or whatever When when the name

because diehard lends itself to do different

things with it And so I like that it's die harder

or die hard with a vengeance or live free or

die hard or you know It's a good day to die hard

like I like they do those things and I think

other films have had that option and they just

like oh We're just gonna put a three or four

now lethal weapon I don't know what else you

could have done with that, but I do Respect and

kind of have I like when someone plays with the

title and then puts the die hard within a phrase

I like that but yeah, if we're just going to

like the initial title, you know I'm gonna pitch

you a movie called die -hard. I'm gonna pitch

you a movie called lethal weapon. I'm kind of

torn Mike. What do you think? I Agree that die

-hard made a good use of the subtitling up to

the third film. Oh, shut up No, no, you should

film was good, too. The fifth film is just terrible.

It sounds like a Klingon That's a good day to

die hard that's a Klingon that's what i'm saying

is that the first three die hard movies the first

one is just die hard die hard to die harder because

you're putting them into another situation die

hard with a vengeance because you've got simon

coming back to revenge against hans You know,

and then when you get to live free or die hard,

OK, I get why they called it that because of,

oh, it takes place in Washington. Oh, where Thomas

Gabriel is going to take away everyone's freedom.

I get why they did that. I still think Die Hard

4 .0, even if you added a subtitle to it, you

know, cyber terrorist, add some sort of, you

know. Subtitled to that it would have been better

a good day to die I I nearly plots to myself

when I saw it It's it's just so stupid. Well,

it's kind of jumped the shark after the fourth

film I know. Now, if you did subtitles with lethal

weapon, okay, lethal weapon one could just be

lethal weapon one. If you did lethal weapon two

and added a subtitle to it, same thing with three

and four, I think it would have been better.

But I like the simplicity of lethal weapon. And

as Kevin said, which one out of just the regular

titles are you more apt to look at? And the fact

that Mel Gibson was a lethal weapon that That

to me says that I pick that over Die Hard Die

Hard is the one that like oh, that's kind of

a creative name Like that's something unique

or whatever lethal weapon. It's like one of those

like how did how was that not a movie already?

Exactly. Yeah So official votes, I know it kind

of went back and forth but Mike official lethal

lethal Steve As much as it kills me I'm gonna

have to go with lethal and I want to give it

to Die Hard just for the creativity, but Lethal

Weapon seems like it makes more sense. Like I

said, if you're going for the subtitles, then

Die Hard wins. But if you're going for just basic

first film initial thought, then Lethal Weapon.

Fair enough. All right, then we're getting down

to the nitty gritty here. Overall, and then I

think I know where we're going with this one.

I didn't know going into this one. I didn't know

where we were going to go with this, but after

hearing everybody's talk, I have a pretty good

idea, but overall continuity of the franchise,

Mike. Okay, I'm going to start with Die Hard.

If you take out, and I'm not saying anything

against Die Hard 5, I haven't seen it yet, but

so far from what I've read online and from what

I've seen in the trailers, the only continuity

bits is that the daughter is there for half a

scene and then the son comes in. But if you take

out 2 and 5, 1, 3, and 4 have the continuity

for Die Hard. 2 and 5 seem to be your average

action movie type things, even though 2 is still

kind of, oh hey, John McClane's in another situation

he can't get out of. Lethal Weapon 4, as I stated

before, is one all -inclusive story. Because

it takes two characters, it introduces us to

their past, Specifically with rigs in the second

film and in the fourth film with Roger because

you've got the whole side angle of smuggling

Chinese people and then he's talking about forefathers

and his founding you know and the watch and all

so I got to give it to lethal on the continuity

because it tells a Four film part story to me.

This is how I break this one down as far as continuity

goes look at die -hard John McClain is the only

character that's involved in all four films Mm

-hmm. All right, you have no characters that

are involved in three of the four films, right?

You have his daughter is in two his ex -wife

is in two Thornburg's in two and Al Powell Reginald

Bell Johnson is in two He's technically in one

and a half because he was only on phone So that's

what you have there if you look at a lethal weapon

Mel Gibson says he's in all four Obviously, Danny

Glover is in all four. Those are givens. Trish

Murtaugh is in all four. Rhianne Murtaugh is

in all four. Nick Murtaugh, Carrie Murtaugh are

in all four. Captain Ed Murphy is in all four.

Dr. Stephanie Woods is in all four. Joe Pesci

is in three and Rene Russo is in two. Yeah. So

like that right there says it all for me. You

know like continuity wise from one through four.

There's more connections made throughout the

lethal weapon franchise for me Steve what are

your thoughts? I have to agree on all accounts

that Everything you guys have mentioned has been

hundred percent valid. I have to say that Lethal

weapon has the the stronger continuity between

them Alright, we're down to the final two rounds

in this 20 round fight. I know this one seems

silly, but Both of these franchises revolve around

police forces at one point or the other Both

John McClain and and Riggs and Murtaugh etc are

Are all police officers at one point or another

they all work for a police force etc so If you're

looking at the police forces that they're involved

with the LAPD and the NYPD Who's a part of the

Superior Police Force Mike? The problem with

this is the same problem that the pitting these

two franchises together has You've got one lone

cop from the NYPD The only time we ever really

see the NYPD is in with a vengeance you don't

see that like it's the all of the other films

are John by himself doing stuff. You know, I

gotta give it to LAPD because you see them throughout,

as you said, the captain is there throughout,

the police psychologist is there throughout,

Lorna's in there for two movies. I gotta give

it to LAPD because we only see the NYPD once

and as great as the dude, the bomb disposal dude

is and funny as he is, It just... Well, it's

one or two. You could look at it that one of

two ways. You could look at it that we see more

of the lethal weapon, the LAPD force in lethal

weapon movies. So that makes it better. Or you

could say that you see them and you get to see

all their flaws and all the red tape and bureaucracy

and nonsense that you have to deal with as well.

So it might expose that more problems with it

too. So just because one was more present doesn't

necessarily mean it was better. So, I mean, I

can see it kind of both ways. They both trained

some badass police guys, though. So, I don't

know. I kind of go back and forth because you

do see a lot of the weaknesses in the LAPD as

well as seeing some of the strengths. Right.

Steve? I have no preference because I just don't

care for the cops' parts, but I'd have to say...

I'll just agree with you guys on LAPD. Well,

and the other reason why I picked the LAPD is,

again, because of the precursor scenes in 3 and

4 with Lethal Weapon. Because in Lethal Weapon

3, Raj, it's a bomb. Let's call it Bomb Squad.

No, I can defuse it. Red wire, blue wire. Red.

No, blue. Red. And then the whole thing with

the... The LAPD in Lethal Weapon... is more prominent

it's yes I agree with you it shows at least in

the first film it shows the incompetence with

Dwayne and all that with with Paul Gleason's

character but we don't have that because John

McClane is the lone cop we don't get that again

the buddy cop aspect with the rest of the force

so I have to pick the LAPD all right And then

it is time for the last round here, round number

20, which usually what we do here is we just

kind of go through an overall franchise vote.

If you had to pick what is the better franchise,

what is your favorite franchise, et cetera, out

of Die Hard and Lethal Weapon, what is the superior

franchise, Mike? Lethal Weapon, because it...

Well, I love the Die Hard franchise. I love them

as individual films. Outside of 1 and 3, I love

Die Hard 2 for its individuality story. Same

thing with Die Hard 4. Yes, there is continuity

in there, but Lethal Weapon franchise is superior

because for me, it's one continuous story and

they have cases throughout those four stories.

Steve, what's the superior franchise in European?

Well, I'm kind of stuck there as far as continuity

in FC Lethal Weapon, but as far as overall enjoyability

for me and for sheer fun and brainless rewatchability

or whatever, I'd have to say die hard. Fair enough.

For me, I like both parts of it. Lethal Weapon

for the reasons Mike states. I like Die Hard

for the reasons Steve states. But for me what

it comes down to is, and I guess it's unfair

because it kind of goes back to our first category,

who do I want to watch more of? Bruce Willis

or Mel Gibson? And I know he's got a bad rap

these days. But I'd rather watch Mel Gibson any

day of the week. I don't know what it is about

him, but his characters that he plays just really

fascinate me. And for me, that kind of sways

it a little bit towards Lethal Weapon. Those

are the movies that I got. Even though I love,

love, love Die Hard, and I love the character

of John McClane, overall I'd rather watch Lethal

Weapon. So my vote's going to go for Lethal Weapon.

The round is over, and it's going to the judges,

so we're gonna have to check the judges' scorecard,

and we will be back right after this with the

final tallies. I watched 60 minutes. I say to

myself, these guys are professional, they're

motivated, they're happening, i .e. they want

something, huh? Now, personally, I couldn't care

less about your politics. Maybe you're pissed

off at the Camel Jackies, maybe it's the Heaves,

Northern Island. It's none of my business. I

figure you're here to negotiate. Am I right?

You're amazing. You figured this all out already.

Hey, business is business. You use a gun, I use

a fountain pen. What's the difference? Let's

put it in my terms. You're here on a hostile

takeover, you grab us for some green mail, but

you didn't expect some poison pill was gonna

be running around in the building. Am I right?

Hans? Booby? I'm your white knight. Remember

when we first met John McClane Our guy picked

him up from the plane And took him down to Nakatomi

Tower To meet with Holly He came to get her back

and to be her man But Hans and his buddies fucked

up the plan And that's about when everything

went sour At the Christmas party And the terrorists

were the worst elements But it was sweet when

they killed Ellis And with a little help from

Alice the three different judges that we're scoring

ringside here. It's a pretty close one. It was

down to the wire. If you go on overall categories,

the score is 11 to 9. And if you go on individual

votes, the score is 34 to 26. With the winner

of this GCN Wars battle being the superior franchise

is Lethal Weapon. by two categories, by eight

votes, Lethal Weapon tops Die Hard in this ultimate

battle royale. And the internet let out a cry

of, oh my fucking God, what have you people done?

It's only the second time I've gotten shafted

on my winner. I know those people will disagree

with us, but we've broken it down, people. Come

on, we even compared Christmas spirit. So yeah.

So that is how we have come to a conclusion.

Mike, what else do we want to say here? Anything?

No, final thoughts. For me, I love both franchises

equally, as I stated before. I love the die -hard

films for their individuality. As I said before,

yes, one and three and four and five have continuity

with the kids. One and three have continuity

with the villains. Two is just a... Good standalone

movie with lethal weapon as I said, you know,

I I'm pretty much beating a dead horse here I

love the overall continuity and character development

of all characters from the first movie to the

fourth movie As far as like watchability Mel

Gibson versus Bruce Willis, I I find myself now

watching more Bruce Willis films not just in

the in these franchises obviously, but You know,

like you said, you can watch Mel Gibson any day

of the week, but that's the beauty of these two

franchises. If you want to watch a really good

Bruce Willis movie or a really good Mel Gibson

movie, you pick one of these movies. Most people

will pick the original Die Hard. I don't know

what most people would... I want people to sound

off in the comments on this episode out of Lethal

Weapon. Which one would you most want to watch?

Because I can't pick one. I like them all. I

don't know, Steve, final thoughts? Overall, I

enjoy Bruce Willis films more than I enjoy Mel

Gibson films. Not saying that I don't enjoy Mel

Gibson's films, but I'm still sticking to my

guns. I'd rather watch Die Hard than Lethal Weapon.

And I think a lot of the people around the internet

would agree with you. But we did not. But yeah,

Die Hard usually gets the more critical acclaim

as being the better franchise. Well, we hope

you enjoyed this episode of GCRN Wars, and we

hope that you'll join us next time when we're

gonna flip this script here. We're doing something

that we've never done before. We're not pitting

two geek topics against each other. We're doing

something very special, and all I gotta say is,

well, it'll be taking place in March, and it's

gonna be madness. It's tournament time, baby!

Yeah! So, for now, I am Optimus Solo with...

DFT and Mike. And Steve Megatron Phillips. Yippee

-ki -yay, motherfucker. That's it really that's

all you're gonna fucking say put that quote in

there. No words. That's where I Yeah, I do Mike

should have said that you be crying mr. Falcon

I'm getting too old for this shit You get a call,

they cut you off. You make a call, they cut you

off. What's the point? I never get... Don't you

know what they're doing, kid? They fuck you with

cell phones. That's what it is. They're fucking

you with the cell phone. They love when you get

cut off. You know why? Huh? You know why? Because

when you call back, which they know you're gonna

do, they charge you for that fucking first minute

again at that high rate. If you're lucky enough

to be able to call back because the three -hour

battery you got only lasts for 20 fucking minutes...

Or what if you're behind a fucking hill and it's

going... Oh, you're going through a damn tunnel

or some shit, man? And they keep making it smaller.

You know why they make them this... so you can

lose them. Why? So you have to buy more phones.

I never lost my mother's phone. It took you two

hours to make a damn long distance call. Four.

Five. Oh, I messed up. Hang up. Gotta do it again.

Four. Five. I never lost my Sports Illustrated

swimsuit phone. And how about the scanners? They

get your phone number and make calls all over

the world. Somebody took my number. It's called

Afghanistan. Afghanistan. Everybody in Afghanistan

know nobody in Afghanistan. And even if I did,

I would not talk to that Afghan ass for three

hours. I won't talk to my daddy for three hours.

They fuck you, they fuck you, they fuck you with

their cell phones. Hey, you know what happens

when you go to a drive -thru? They get you any...

Hold on, hold on. Why am I talking? Hold on.

Leo Getz, private investigator. Private investigator?

Yeah. Yeah, Mr. Getz, I was wondering if you

would be willing to investigate my privates.

Investigate what? My privates, you stupid shit.

Shut the fuck up. Well, very funny, Riggs. You're

costing me a lot of money here. Yeah, at least

three bucks. Three dollars to answer a fucking

call. You're fucking me with your cell phones

now. You're fucking me. You're pretty tough when

you're on the phone, aren't you, little thug?

That's right. Telephone tough guy. Why anybody

talking to you on the phone? Get the fuck out

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next time, at least I can get you. The Napa guy

knows not to judge a man by his car's multi -color

paint job or absence of modern gadgetry. Who

cares if it's technically old enough to vote

and the windows are powered by the strength of

your left arm? Your monthly payment is zero,

and it'll stay that way. Because with over 500

,000 parts and a little Napa know -how, you can

keep anything on the road. She may not be pretty,

but she's all yours. That's Napa know -how.