Star Trek vs Star Wars: The Ultimate Franchise Debate

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Delancey and you are listening to the geek cast

radio network resistance is futile opening crawl

It is a period of civil wars Rebel spaceships

striking from a hidden base have won their first

victory against the evil Galactic Empire During

the battle rebel spies managed to steal secret

plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon the Darth

the Death Star an armored space station with

enough power to destroy an entire planet pursued

by the Empire's sinister agents Princess Leia

races home aboard her starship custodian of the

stolen plans that can save her people and restore

freedom for the galaxy you Intercepted no transmissions

Robin. This is a consular ship. We're on a diplomatic

miss Come on Sheldon Star Wars. I'm pushing play.

I mean it Yeah, if we don't start soon George

Lucas is gonna change it again. Hello and welcome

to episode four of GCRN Wars. I am one of your

hosts, Optimus Solo. And joining me today is,

first of all, Steve Megatron Phillips. Hello.

Hello. TFG1 Mike. Good day, sir. Hello. And special

guest with us on this episode of GCRN Wars, we

have Mike the Birdman Dodd. Hello. What's up?

Yes, sir. And finally, rounding up the crew today

is Pecan Court Michael. Hey, how's it going?

It's going, and today we tackle one of the biggest

debates in all of the Geekdom universe, which

is which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Robocop. Wait a second, wrong show, wrong show.

Don't you mean the lightsaber or the phaser?

Yes, which franchise is better, Star Trek or

Star Wars? That's right, we are tackling this

topic. um... for those of you who don't know

what gc rn wars is first of all shame on you

should have been listening to our previous episodes

because we've already covered uh... flintstones

versus jetsons in one of our episodes we covered

thundercats versus silverhawks yes i said it

right not thundercats versus silverhawks and

today we have up the ante and how this will works

is we have 20 different categories in which we

will pit the two franchises against each other.

We'll have a general discussion on each category.

People will get to say their thoughts and share

their opinions. And at the end of each discussion,

each individual discussion, we will cast our

official votes on which franchise did better

in that category. And by the end of the show,

we will have an answer for which franchise we

think is the ultimate franchise. Mike, do you

have anything else to say? Yeah. Probably the

reason why a lot of people don't know what GCR

and Wars might be is because when Steve and I

launched the show, we've recorded and released

one episode per year in the last three years.

That might explain something. Then I got involved.

GCR and Wars is making a huge comeback. We plan

on having more episodes in 2012 than just this

one. Yes, we're having all kinds of fun stuff.

This is just the tip of El Iceberg -o. Anybody

else have any thoughts before we get into our

categories? Anything that they want to preface

or put out there first? You said preface. I actually

interviewed a guy who wrote a book on this this

past year guy named Matt Forbeck So I come armed

with the knowledge of the guy who wrote the book

on this though though I do disagree with some

of his points, but I'm sure we'll bring that

up during the course of this geek dance -off

or whatever we're gonna Yes, it's the ultimate

battle royale and of course It's kind of fitting

that the cast of future imperfect is here Exactly.

That's right. I do want to make it very clear

to all the listeners. We are not comparing, you

know, although we will do this in the process,

this is not just about a specific show, movie,

etc. This is the overarching franchises that

we are comparing and everything that goes into

that. And unlike some of our previous episodes

like Thundercats and Silverhawks, there is no...

There's nobody in here, like that one we set

up we had like two people that we knew were Silverhawks

fans, two people that we knew were Thundercats

fans, and then we had someone kind of in the

neutral zone. Here it's kind of a match. Yeah,

here we are all kind of fans. I assume we're

all kind of fans of both of them. Different aspects,

yes. You know, some may lean towards one or some

may lean toward other, but it's completely kind

of fair game, mixed match, and we'll just see

where this takes us. Um, Michael Wilson, any

thoughts before we start? Uh, no, I'm just happy

to be here. It's my first wars. I feel like there

should be, you know, how like radio shows have

like a, an iconic like little sound when somebody

says like it's your first call in. First time

caller, love type fan. Ask me in three hours

when I'm falling asleep at the desk. Head desk,

the little show. Alright, well let's just get

into it then. Our very first topic, which we

will be comparing the two franchises, is their

iconic ships. Which was the more impressive ship?

The Starship Enterprise, and you can take whatever

version you would like, or the Millennium Falcon.

Who would like to start us off on that one? Can

I? Yes, you can. Okay. Basically, I'd like to

say this is an apples to oranges comparison the

enterprise has always been the capital ship of

the Federation and It just gets bigger and bigger

with each iteration So the a and B and the C

and the D and eventually the E to the point where

you have a flying city in space essentially The

Falcon is a tiny freighter with a crew of two

like a semi truck in space You could you could

park the Falcon in the enterprises shuttle bay

And so there's really no comparison here a real

comparison would be the enterprise to a Star

Destroyer I mean if guns are guns and shields

or shields then a Star Destroyer is easily the

most impressive of the two it a Star Destroyer

is a floating city that carries bad guys with

enough ground forces to level a regular land

-based city or it can just Obliterate you from

orbit because that's the only way to be sure

However, a star destroyer carries a hell of a

lot more guys than a starship Yeah, because the

Enterprise crew is just a little over a thousand

depending on which version of the ship you're

going with where the Star Destroyer I think has

a standing crew of around 20 ,000 also I think

it depends on which Star Destroyer you're talking

about. Are you talking about a super class or

a suit? Oh, well, yeah, if you're looking at

the flagship of the Imperial fleet the Super

Star Destroyer Yes, but if we're just talking

about, you know regular Imperial class destroyer

then that might well Still more than a pitch

for the Enterprise. Well, yeah, because these

Star Destroyers are, I think, 1 .4 kilometers

long. The Enterprise, at its biggest, I think,

is about 1, maybe 1 .1, I think, at its longest.

The Executor's, I think, 8 kilometers long. And

there's ones that are even bigger than that.

There's the Eclipse -class Star Destroyer, which

was seen in the Dark Empire comics by Dark Horse.

And I think that was something like 20 kilometers

long. I think the main purpose in just picking

the Enterprise though on the Falcon is if you

ask any like just general person, maybe not obviously

geeks that are well -informed, but if you ask

the common person to name a ship, a Star Trek

ship or to name a Star Wars ship, these are the

two that are going to be named. So it's not necessarily

that they're specs or that their size or that

their purpose is the same. It's just out of these

two iconic ships, which is the more badass. The

you know, Michael said something about the x

-wing the x -wing. Yes, but those are more so

The x -wing and the TIE fighters that would be

like which one is better craft As far as iconic

ships of the series go X -wing is probably That

comes to mind for me more faster than Millennium

Falcon More people can name smaller ships from

Star Wars as opposed to Star Trek. You can say

shuttle, and that's all anybody knows. Right.

Yeah. Whereas if you say Galileo or runabout

or something, nobody really knows unless they

watched it. Yeah. I just think the Hanvians...

What was the name of Tom Harrison? That's a nice

topic. The Delta Flyer, yeah. Yeah. I think that...

Between the two, between the Enterprise and the

Millennium Falcon, I've watched enough Star Trek

over the years where I don't know if I'm just

forgetting it off the top of my head, but I've

never actually seen an Enterprise actually do

any kind of really elite maneuvers like the Falcon

has done in the films. Well, that's because you're

comparing two different scales of ship. Once

again, you're looking at a capital ship versus

something that's the... Basically, it's like

comparing a speedboat to a huge cargo ship. You

know what I mean? It's not as maneuverable for

a reason. Well, right. But the thing is, like,

you know, in any Star Trek, whether it's the

films or whether it's the TV series, the Enterprise

just sits there, set phasers to maximum, you

know, set, you know, fire all... It does have

warp speed. Well, I don't know what version you're

referring to, Mike, but they don't typically

sit there. Yeah, they go into orbit at times

and they fight, but they do have a lot of maneuverability

more than what you'd think. And they do have

warp speed, and I don't want us not to mention,

you know, the fact that certain versions of the

enterprise have the ability obviously to separate

into two different sections. My thought is, and

the reason kind of why I wanted to bring this

up was basically if you could have your choice

to be, you know, piloting or do to your own or

to have one of these two ships in your power

or in your, you know, in your arsenal, which

one would you rather have? Which one is the more

badass? Do I get a full crew? Do I get a full

crew or is it just me? Well, you know the enterprise

For two reasons transporters replicators exactly

Oh look I broke again Where's my damn jewelry

strap doors and hidden sections for smuggling

enterprise comes with a wookie Fair to compare

every single version of the Enterprise against

one Millennium Falcon. That's not fair. It doesn't

matter. You know what I like about the Enterprise?

I like how it crashes. Hey, that only happens

in one and a half movies. Generations does. I

don't think... What was the last Star Trek movie?

Nemesis. Nemesis shouldn't count because that

was only a partial crash and they fixed it. That

was the battery. You know if you're not Exactly

comparing it you're comparing the the iconicness

of what you associate the franchise not necessarily

The apples to oranges aspect of how different

they are you're you're more so comparing You

know visibility culture and Honestly, I would

say the Millennium Falcon has much more pop culture

reference Because let's face it. There's only

one Whereas the enterprise changes every you

know Yeah, I mean there's an assembly line of

them because let's face it. They break consistently

but The enterprise on the other hand not only

does it have a lot more technical uh advancements

over the millennium falcon but it's more aesthetically

pleasing to the eye and it not only has that

aspect but it holds a lot more people whereas

the falcon you could run on a crew of two people

and be fine uh But it's it's also very rugged

looking compared to anything in Star Trek. So

it's it's kind of, you know, again, it does go

back to that apples to oranges aspect. But I

Steve, I just had a thought when like when like

you were talking there, I think we can settle

this really easy. OK, which ship would you want

to go to the bathroom on? What is more comfortable?

I think it breaks down to that. Would you rather

crap in the back of the space dump truck? or

on the Hilton that flies through space. Leave

it to Michael Dodd to leave a ranking up to a

bathroom joke. Hey, think about it. What's more

comfortable? The cramped place where the walking

carpet takes a dump or the place where if they

don't like it, I'm just going to transport it

in the space. Sonic showers, baby. There's no

smell. But it depends on which enterprise you're

talking about if you're going to compare the

toilets. So I choose the Millennium Falcon overall.

Yeah, which ship do you like better is the vote

here? So Mike is choosing the Millennium Falcon.

Birdman, which ship do you like better? I'm taking

my pimp baby, the Enterprise E. All righty, Mr.

Wilson. I'm going to take the Millennium Falcon

with the deluxe gold plated Elvis style toilets.

That do not exist you are you are the weakest

link goodbye um Obviously the enterprise but

my personal favorite is it's kind of a tie between

80 so I'm gonna say And I am actually going to

select as my favorite ship out of the two the

Star Trek Starship Enterprise as well So that

would make it three to two for Star Trek on this

one. Space toilets for the win. Since we kind

of already brought it up, that kind of transitions

right into our other category along these same

lines, which is category number two, which is

vehicles and machines. Which franchise has had

the more badass vehicles and machines overall?

This is all machines, all vehicles, all inclusive.

Which franchise has the cooler vehicles? Who

wants to start us off on this one? Oh, oh, oh.

You can go. Thanks. I like how the Star Trek

technology includes an explanation for warp drive.

It's powered by two nacelles that hang off of

each ship. And because of this, all the Federation

ships have a shared aesthetic. Alien ships will

veer away from this, but they aren't nearly as...

many, as numerous, let's say, as those of the

Federation ships. And as the timeline moves forward,

kind of like as Steve said, they just get more

sleek and more streamlined and prettier. But

Star Wars ships, on the other hand, come in all

sorts of shapes. And you can usually, you know,

spot the engines, but there's all types of engines.

You know, twin ion engines and whatever's on

the ass end of the Millennium Falcon, things

like that. George Lucas really likes... his World

War II dogfights. So most of the ships in the

Star Wars universe are, well most of them that

we've seen, the greater majority, are single

-seat fighters, possibly two -seaters. Even the

ground ships are made for one or two occupants.

So the exception comes when there's something

really big, really truly scary, like an AT -AT,

or in space it would be a Star Destroyer. The

biggest vehicle of all, the biggest scariest

one, is a planet. Before exactly I should have

said this beforehand, but before we get too in

-depth into our discussion You know the Star

Trek machines basically the big differences is

Which alien race they belong to you know each?

Each race has their own style of ships obviously

have lots of different enterprises and obviously

I mean I'm not talking about just the you have

your shuttles and you have your Your smaller

ships, but you have the Enterprise mainly for

the Starfleet and those types of ships, you know

the Klingon have their types of ships You know

the Borg has their it's just kind of like I guess

like the Death Star But each race kind of has

a different ship whereas in Star Wars. It's it's

a lot more diverse within the race I mean you

have your X -Wings your A -Wings your Y -Wings

your TIE fighters your TIE bombers your Like

you said, AT -ATs. I noticed that you just named

like 30 types of fighter Yeah, but I mean you

have your ATT's, ATST's, your, you know, sand

crawlers, your speeder bikes, your pod racers,

land speeders. A lot of Star Wars technology

breaks down to kind of military things, whereas

in Star Trek you see a lot more civilian stuff.

Like you just mentioned, we see more individual

race things like with Cardassians, Ferengi, the

Breed, etc, etc. It's easier to identify You

can identify which race a ship belongs to in

Star Trek very easily. Well, in Star Trek, they're

actually, it's funny if you look at them, they're

all color -coded based on what faction they're

on. Pretty much the golden -looking color, the

borger, that metallic -y color. It's kind of

gray and silver for the Federation. It's green

for an off -green. for like a forest green for

the Klingons and then it's like a almost regular

green for the Romulans. So I mean, it just that

helps identify them. And whereas in Star Wars,

they're all pretty much the same colors, with

the exception of the rebels having some red stripes

here or there. And the other thing is, if you

look at Star Trek, when you go back from the

60s show to modern They get more advanced more

sleek looking whereas it's reverse for Star Wars

Yeah, that's the old look obviously since it's

supposed to be beforehand. Whereas Star Trek

is supposed to be futuristic well, well in if

you look at Star Wars though in the Prequel trilogy

everything was all shiny and nice looking and

you get into the the the later, you know Series

which is that to the pre, you know, right whatever

I'm not getting into that convoluted mess, but

um, it's They seem to degrade as it goes on.

The idea there is that there was no innovation

under the empire. Everything they had was built

back in the old republic days. They were just

basically modifying it to keep it running. I

would completely disagree with that, because

if you look in the Expanded Universe stuff, they

talk about how the Empire caused hundreds, if

not thousands, of weapons labs developing stuff.

I mean, one of the primary suppliers for them

was CNR fleet systems, and even the X -Wings

were originally developed for the Empire by Incom

before they defected to the Rebel Alliance. Star

Wars weaponry progresses. The thing is, this

was made in 1970 something, so they couldn't

have all the really cool toys. have to read the

expanded universe or the role -playing stuff

from West End games and Wizards of the Coast

to really get a feel for how advanced the weaponry

actually is. However, if you go by the canon

of what's actually been seen on screen, then

I feel Star Trek wins out overall on that. I

think, too, though, the Empire, even though they

had their labs and were developing stuff, I think

Michael's Wilson's point it still holds up for

everybody else Everybody else doesn't have the

ability to progress that much with their with

their vehicles or their machines It's almost

like they're living in a you know a post -apocalyptic

world where they're just trying to make do with

whatever they can scrape up I think it's worth

pointing out For any you know like if you relate

this to a common person like who can name more

ships And I think Star Wars easily people could

name more ships from Star Wars then well. There's

only like 12 26 one for each letter of the alphabet

Understand you could name. I think the the Star

Wars vehicles are easily more easily identifiable

It's almost like they have a little more personality

to them I think whereas to me some of the Star

Trek ships even though they're badass looking

get lost or blend in too much with It's the season

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Book now at kalahariresorts .com. The other parts

of what's going on, you know the plot and the

story and this and that where you can somehow

lose The individual characteristics of some of

the Star Trek ships. I Would be different here

between the two words. I'm sorry I was gonna

say the the big difference here is a Star Wars

ship is a toy When there's when a new ship makes

its debut on Star Wars, they're gonna make a

toy out of it. So It's in their best interest

to introduce as many ships as possible. So you

have a huge diversity of ships Whereas in Star

Wars you get more and more iterations of the

enterprise because in Star Trek I'm sorry in

Star Trek you get more and more iterations of

the enterprise because they're You know, let's

face it that if someone's gonna buy Star Trek

memorabilia or collectibles, let's say So is

not to say Star Trek toy if you're gonna buy

a Star Trek collectible, it's gonna be the enterprise

or possibly a Klingon ship. One of the things

to consider about Star Wars versus Star Trek,

and this is something you guys probably haven't

thought about, it comes down to resources. In

the Star Trek universe, they've only really started

to explore the Alpha Quadrant, and there are

places within the Alpha Quadrant that haven't

really even been explored. because of the limits

of warp travel, right? And that's why some of

the Federation starships, et cetera, et cetera,

have such a long service life. I mean, they're

intended to be in service actively within the

Federation for 50, 60 years plus. I mean, the

Excelsior Starship, I think Captain Sulu's ship,

I think it was in service for over 60 years.

Star Wars, they have so much more resources.

They can develop new types of ships all the time.

I mean, I remember reading things when they were

like, oh, look at our new E -wing fighters. You

know how long it takes to design a new fighter

jet? Stuff like that. So apply the real world

engineering principles to this and think how

much resources, R &D, et cetera, et cetera, goes

in. into it, I think the point is right where

they want to introduce a new toy, but they also

have infinitely more resources than the Star

Trek people have access to. Yeah. I think between

the two, I like the more, I mean, yes, they both

are military organizations, but I like Star Wars

military more. I would rather see a legion of

X -Wings versus an armada of enterprises. And

I like the whole X -Wing versus TIE fighter.

I think that's a classic aerial space battle.

And it just looked super cool. So I would pick

the Star Wars vehicles over the Star Trek ones.

You have started the voting off, so that is one

vote for Star Wars. Birdman, which group of vehicles

do you like the best? Honestly, as much as I

love Star Trek, I have to give the edge here

to Star Wars simply due to raw power, adaptability,

and they're more specialized. Like the ADATs

developed for land warfare. It's impressive.

You get other vehicles like the Mountain Walker,

which is like a spider version. Honestly, Star

Wars wins under intimidation and raw firepower.

Mr. Wilson? I have to agree. I'm gonna go with

Star Wars. I am also going with Star Wars and

Steve, which group of vehicles do you like the

best? On the one hand, Star Trek has... I still

love the ships more. I don't care what you say.

I still love the ships more and I still think

that there's more innovation than what is being

given credit for. However, they do not have any

land vehicles whatsoever. Well, there was that

stupid dune buggy from Nemesis. There was a dune

buggy. But I thought we all agreed that Nemesis

doesn't count. Only when it comes to Starship

crashes. I agree with Steve that the Star Trek

ships look awesome. They're very sleek. They're

so much more maybe sophisticated looking. They're

basically science platforms though. Right, but

there's just something so personable and likable

about all the different variety you get from

the Star Wars universe as far as their ships

go that I mean there's so many ships that I would

have loved to you know if you're picturing yourself

owning or flying or being a part of like there's

so many of them like. Don't get me wrong. The

Star Trek ships, well, like I said before, I

do love those. However, a lot of the parts are

a cookie cutter of a previous model ship. Whereas

in Star Wars, everything is unique. There's not

one part that's recycled from another machine.

Which must make repairing these things a pain

in the ass. Yeah, whereas Starfleet, they're

like, oh, let's just recycle it from this class

ship and... Or replicate it. Problem solved.

Yeah, so I guess I'll have to give this Star

Wars even though I don't want to. There's no

coercion here, you can vote however you would

like. I know, I'm voting Star Wars though just

because of land and diversity whereas Star Trek

doesn't really have either. That makes sense.

Sticking with our theme of stuff made of metal

and other things like that, I guess, our third

category is the weaponry of the two franchises

and which franchise had the more impressive array

of weapons. This is not going to be limited to

the ones I'm mentioning here, but some of the

weapons you might see in Star Trek include your

phasers, your disruptors, your pulse cannons,

photon torpedoes, all the different Klingon weapons

and swords, as well as all the other different

races and the weapons they bring in. If you're

thinking Star Wars, we're thinking about blasters,

thermal detonators, crossbows, and obviously

the lightsabers. Who would like to talk about

some weapons? Well, the proper term is bowcaster.

Sorry, I'm a bit of a Star Wars nerd when it

comes to this. Actually, I'm gonna start this

off. Go for it. Star Wars, I think, is gonna

take this one for one reason. Raw power. And

the reason I mentioned that is there was an article

I read some years ago and it was mentioned that

a Star Destroyer could cut the hell out of the

Enterprise simply because the Enterprise's shields

are only rated to a certain terawatt, right?

Whereas the turbo lasers on your average Star

Destroyer I think is something like 240 and I

think the Enterprise's shield max out at around

10. So in terms of raw power Star Wars is gonna

take this. I mean the fucking Death Star Another

one to mention is in the Jedi Academy trilogy

by Kevin J. Anderson. There's a weapon called

the Sun Crusher It fires a torpedo into the heart

of a Sun boom dead now Star Trek does have red

matter whoopie -doo it is smaller just as destructive

But Star Wars also has ships, which you could

call this a weapon too, technically. There's

a coating on the ship called quantum armor, something

like that. This thing can go into the gravity

well of a gas giant and be fine. And the pressures

in those things, well, I don't know how science

nerdy you guys are, but let's just say it's a

lot. And have a ship go into the middle of a

gas shot and just hang out for fun. That's something

no Star Trek ship will ever accomplish Well,

I guess if you count the whole Pegasus thing,

but that's a phase thing. I realize I know entirely

too much about this I think of a couple things

when I think of the weaponry First of all, like

you said with Star Wars I think two things number

one is that like you said the raw power and number

two for Star Wars weaponry is is the again the

diversity of what you get and the tons of different

styles, types of weapons, etc, etc, and obviously

the iconic lightsaber. If you were going to go

on the most badass looking weapons, it's everything

that the Klingons have ever used. Those things

look amazing. And they just look like I would

kill myself trying to learn how to use one of

those things. If you take the Klingon weaponry

out of it, to me the Star Trek weaponry is a

little plain and a little simple. There's a beauty

in the simplicity of it, but you just get such

a diversity in the Star Wars weaponry. Of course

we're going to have all these pictures in the

post on the website so people can see the different

categories, but just looking at these first two

guns in Star Trek, they're essentially... two

different versions of a pistol i mean like one

could be a 38 the other could be a 22 i mean

that's really what those pistols look like to

me those were from to be fair those are from

the original series those are not the the next

generation okay but what i'm saying is just looking

at them by the images they look like two different

sizes basically godfathers you can see how the

weaponry evolves in star trek from from the type

one to the type two to the type three steve can

back me on this when you look at the next generation

when you look at a type one phaser it's very

small type two is what we call the brawn mix

master the phaser rifle the type three is just

a bigger type two with an extra four grip so

the small on the type one is the little personal

one. It's essentially a noisy cricket. Although

significantly underpowered actually a type one

phaser can't fire that many shots and won't I

think has a very limited kill setting before

it actually runs out of power. Yeah basically

it's meant for personal defense. Basically, the

phasers and the blasters are very comparable

to the point that they are just your basic weapons

and everything. The thing with the Star Wars

universe is you have so much more after that,

whereas the Star Trek you just get mostly phasers

because they're not doing as much battle. you

know, hand -to -hand combat type thing. I do

like the part of the phaser that you can have

your different settings as far as stun, kill,

etc. Well, see, the phasers as far as the Federation

is concerned are more civilized, whereas if you

go to like the Klingons, they have disruptors

that's just meant to kill basically like the

blasters in Star Wars. Star Wars, every weapon

is meant to kill one hit, KO. Whereas Star Trek,

there's a little bit more safety involved. It's

it's a little bit more civilized It is it's more

like honor bound whereas Star Wars it's like

kill or be killed Star Wars is more like the

Wild West whereas Star Trek is more the civilized

city So to speak and you look at some of the

weaponry in Star Wars for example, I mean looking

at the bowcaster That's basically a rail gun

So they you know, I mean there's different technologies

at work in there. There's weapons from different

species. I mean, there's one weapon. I think

it's I think the book is called The True Sepikura.

It happens literally 10 minutes after Return

of the Jedi and a race called the Sisiru have

a different kind of directed energy weapon. There's

also light whips and stuff like that, which I

think you can see in Star Wars, the old republic

and stuff like that. There's just a lot more

variety there like in light. As much as I hate

to admit this, Blanchard's got a point. You can

see the grandfathering in the Star Trek weaponry.

I mean, even with the kind of Klingon weapons,

you see how they evolve over time. You can see

the different steps of calibers, or this evolved

from this, blah, blah, blah. Star Trek weapons

are more utilitarian. They're not meant to cause

massive damage or harm. Although there was one

documented case, I think me and Steve talked

about this during one of our Future Imperfect

shows, where five guys took on the equivalent

of the Roman army in like five hours with like

three phasers. So they do get the job done in

that sense. Or if you want to talk about the

Prince War torpedo that Janeway massacred an

entire civilization. Essentially. And I think

the difference in the weaponry, sorry Kevin,

really quickly, I think the difference in the

weaponry for the two franchises is that every

bit of Star Trek stuff that I've seen, minus

maybe a few of the 66 episodes, at least the

stuff that I've, because I watched TNG as a kid,

every part of Star Trek that I've seen has had

them consistently going to negotiate And negotiations

sometimes work, sometimes they don't. Where in

Star Wars, they go to negotiate, they end up

getting attacked, and then they have to fight

for their lives. It's called Weapon -Facilitated

Negotiations. Well, evidently you have not seen

DS9. I have, but it's been a while. I think it

kind of breaks down to the kind of names, though,

guys. I mean, Star Trek... It's about the journey

of exploration and diplomacy star wars. It's

a straight -up con. I mean, it's basically it's

It's a war movie for me for lack of winning Yeah,

I mean their weapons are more destructive doesn't

doesn't star wars win just for the sheer fact

of having lightsabers It should yes You know,

it's funny, in Matt Forbeck's book, he wrote

Star Wars versus Star Trek, there is a chapter

on phasers versus a lightsaber, and I think the

phaser may win because you can change the frequency

of it. So it could, in theory, pass right through

the beam of the lightsaber. So that's something

else to consider, too. Star Trek weaponry is

more adaptable, whereas in Star Wars, it's a

blaster bolt powered by blaster gas, or it's

a bolt propelled by a magnetic rail system. But

then again... If you ask anybody on the street

which one they would rather have. A lightsaber,

of course! Okay, but my question to you, Dodd,

is that, you know, you just mentioned about the

Phaser's different settings. Now my question

is, and I'm kind of combining Star Wars and...

Green Lantern Corps here, but the lightsaber

is an extension of the Jedi Knight. Would that

kind of be like sort of the same thing with like

a Green Lantern ring where it's an extension

of your will? Not really. Because Sokwai, God

and Jinn in episode one phased through the core.

Well, OK, how a lightsaber works and it basically...

A lightsaber can be wielded by anybody, although

it takes a degree of skill to use. I mean, an

untrained person could use a lightsaber, though

not effectively as a Jedi to deflect blaster

bolts. There are several characters in the EU

that do wield lightsabers that are not Jedi.

A lightsaber is basically, it's a hilt that can

project energy through a focused crystal to produce

the blade. It's adjusted through magnetics, I

think. I'm not 100 % sure how they adjust blade

length. But it is not accurate is if you were

talking about the actual force and and what you

can do Right through the force that one. That's

not technology here. That's not a weapon though,

right? I'm just saying I think the only thing

that we never really saw the destructive power

of that I really wanted to see was the thermal

detonator You do in the Star Trek role -playing

games. I mean in terms of dice power They're

very powerful and the only thing comparable in

Star Trek. I know there are like grenades i suppose

you could set a phaser on overload yeah it'll

do a fair chunk of damage but a thermal detonator

is meant to be directed yeah it's a mini dust

star it probably is i mean you know because they

could have said oh well i have a big f and grenade

here no they said thermal detonator and when

i first saw when i first watched that movie when

i first saw that the first thing i thought of

was you know as a kid was like oh it's going

to melt everybody It's not just going to explode,

it's going to melt everything in that room. I

think a thermal detonator, I think if I remember

the errata correctly, I think it's basically

it's a pocket nuke. I really think it's a nuclear

explosion. So if that were to go off in Jabba's

Palace when we first see this, it would probably

level Jabba's Palace or definitely several floors

there of this thing. They're very destructive,

way more destructive than unexploding phaser.

It packs a punch. Anybody other any other thoughts

before we go to votes on the weaponry? Mr. Wilson?

I had something prepared, but I think you guys

covered it. Yeah. I like that you just go over

top of you. Well, no, I mean, I think that, you

know, like with the Starships, Starfleet has

a certain aesthetic. when it comes to weapons

right and the phaser has been the standard since

its inception and hasn't changed much since then

even the phase rifles like you guys are talking

about the the number one the number two number

three uh the phase rifles just look like long

phasers with two handles uh and the only thing

that's really interesting is when you start getting

into Klingon hand -to -hand weapons because those

are really cool yeah but you know there's a lot

of hand -to -hand weapons in Star Wars. I mean

Star Wars has no restrictions when it comes to

weapons each species carries its own preferred

type But there's a lot of species so you've got

everything from laser pistols to pointed sticks

and The best pointed stick of all is the lightsaber

And I'll get weapon not as crude as a blaster

but As far as I'm concerned lightsabers win hands

down. I love that cheap shot at blasters in in

the prequels when Obi -Wan says, Blaster's so

uncivilized or whatever he says. Mike, why don't

you start us off with your vote? Which franchise

has it? Hands down, simply because of the lightsaber.

I also do like, you know, I like the threat of

the thermal detonator just because I like that

entire scene in Jabba's palace. The whole thing

with the with the electro staffs and the And

the gaffy sticks, that was cool too. But simply

for the lightsaber, Star Wars wins for me. Birdman?

Once again, it's going to come down to destructive

raw power and what it can accomplish. Like I

said, Starfleet has a certain... I don't know

whether you would call it an ethical code of

conduct, but their weapons are not built for

mass destruction. Whereas Star Wars, a blaster

bolt or a bowcaster bolt is going to tear through

you the same way and it's going to leave you

dead. So my edge goes to Star Wars. As does mine

and Steve. As much as I don't want to give it

to him. And the only reason I'm giving it to

him is because of the lightsaber. I don't...

particularly care for the rest of the designs

but the lightsaber that's kind of hard to argue

with. All righty then moving on obviously this

you know these are two sci -fi franchises so

we have a lot of sci -fi type categories just

like our fourth one, which is just the overarching

technology. Which franchise had the more impressive

technology? And before people jump in here, just

some quick examples of what we're talking about

here. In Star Wars, you have stuff like the electro

binoculars, the holojam projector, carbon freezing

chamber, the organic kill that we saw in the

prequels, jet packs, et cetera. Star Trek, you

have your cloaking device, your replicator, transporter,

warp drive, communicators. Hector beams, Geordi's

visor, tricorders, the holodeck. I think this

one's going to be fairly easy. But who wants

to start off with the technology here? I think

I'm going to, because you skipped over something

you wrote in the script. I looked at this, and

I was like, how the hell is a breath mask a piece

of technology? Well, because it would convert

whatever ambient gases are into oxygen. And that's

technology that would help us read. No, right.

It is. But the breath mask, I assume when Kevin

wrote that in there, is because of Vader. Was

thinking Princess Leia inside the space slug,

but okay and They use examples of different types

of breath masks throughout this You know throughout

the franchise where whether it be on a planet

where you can't breathe there Whether it be because

of like you said with Darth Vader where you're

physically not able to breathe as easy There's

been using in different things. But as far as

like a coolness factor I mean how much better

would our world be if we could have a transporter

and a replicator. Right. Or even a holodeck.

I mean, because, you know, sure. Well, they're

already, speaking of that, they're already, Microsoft

has already kind of halfway developed that. Well,

and they've talked, there's so many things, it's

almost like Back to the Future in a way. There's

so many things in Star Trek that were written

before they were even, you know, it was thoughts

in these, you know, in the creative minds of

these. individuals that have come true or that

are on the verge of coming true as far as a lot

of these things, you know, you think about the

communicator and how that has basically translated,

you know, with modern day cell phones, Bluetooth,

etc. You know, Jordy's visor and the advancements

that they've made with different types of, you

know, I don't know how you want to term it, but

not laser technology, but there's different things

that they've been able to do. The holodeck, I

mean, it's just a matter of time before a holodeck

is an actual thing that exists. Right. I think

for me, and I'm not going to vote here, but I'm

just going to say that out of what's listed here,

the only thing that I really enjoyed out, two

things I enjoyed out of the Star Wars technology

was the hologram projector and the the carbon

freezing chamber. I thought those were two very,

very cool things. Could be useful. Yeah, very

useful. When it comes to Star Trek, they do have

the better technology. I mean, just think of

replicators and transporters. If you have a transporter,

the cars are obsolete. Gasoline is almost basically

obsolete. You save how many hours of your life?

that you no longer have to spend traveling. I

mean, as long as you don't pull the space walls

thing and have half of your body facing the wrong

way, you're good to go. Now, there's a reason.

Sorry, Don. No, I was going to say there's a

reason here that the Star Trek tech is so much

different from the Star Wars tech. And that's

that Star Wars technology is future technology

as imagined by someone in the 40s. You've got

a you know 1940s. I mean you've got a lot of

flesh Gordon in there. There's jet packs water

breathing apparatus space binoculars This is

all stuff that people in the 40s thought that

we would have today Whereas Star Trek technology

is future technology as imagined by someone in

the 1990s Well, and it's also thought of somebody

again This goes back to just like we were talking

about but flip when we were talking about the

weaponry You know Star Wars is built to fight

build around this Revolution this battle this

Aurelion whereas Star Trek is the more I guess

scientific, you know exploration and an advancement

type thing So you're gonna just naturally get

more items that are geared towards, you know

progressing or making that next leap technologically

Boils down to what each franchise is aimed towards

In my mind and that's why I start why that's

why we see so and in But again, a lot of it is

just great thinking by the people that we're

doing the Cree You know the creative work and

the writing in Star Trek to come up with all

the stuff that actually is more feasible in our

world Whereas some of the stuff in Star Wars

It's just not stuff that you could ever see happening

With some of their technology or never needing

to happen, I guess You know Star Trek technology

is actually solving problems or providing solutions

for transportation, for food, for that type of

thing. Whereas Star Wars, it's not really solving

problems. It was just they needed it for this

specific use. Yes. Todd you were about to say

something a little bit ago. Yeah, I've got one

thing and it's something that a lot of people

don't think when it comes to Star Trek and everyone

says Star Trek will win simply because of transporters

and replicators and It's funny Star Trek technology

actually scares people for one reason I want

you to think of character Reginald Barclay from

Star Trek TNG. He has something known as transporter

phobia. Yeah, and How many of you know how the

transporter technology essentially works just

so I can make this it's almost like it's it's

kind of Yeah, it scans you in and then yeah now

is that really just a sophisticated way of murder

Yeah, I'm serious think about that because you're

being a man and delete them. Yeah, or alternatively

disintegrations Or alternatively. Don't disassemble.

This is like the existential question here. Is

it you that's being transported or is it simply

just a copy? Who remembers who he was at the

moment of transport? Just a thing to put in your

head. That's all. It's a copy. Technically, you're

just being replicated at the other side. Technically,

yeah. So it's not really you anymore. And you

can be replicated as many times as they want.

They could essentially create a slave workforce

on any planet just by duplicating you a thousand

times But the benefits far outweigh that because

I mean come on you you have a you have a family

member in another country You want to go visit

this? There's no driving. There's no airplane.

There's no it makes everything possible. Just

like boom up there Let's not even talk about

religion and and teleporting But yeah, but it's

just one of those things to keep in mind. I've

always seen Star Trek technology as more advanced

than star wars because like i think you made

a very good point it's very much the pulp artist

versus the futurist in terms of what we're going

to have star trek is wonderful for showing what

scientific advances can do in terms of medical

technology um leisure communications, et cetera,

et cetera. So I think Star Trek is going to get

the edge here soon because of all that it's accomplished,

plus looking at even other races technology.

Look at what the Borg have done. I mean, assimilation

aside. Yeah, or the cloaking device, which is

something Star Trek does or sorry, Star Wars

does have, but it doesn't function in the same

manner. Once again, the expanded universe. I

think it was in. The Thrawn trilogy which came

out in the early 90s by Timothy Zahn. They were

using cloaked asteroids like a cloaking device

to assault Coruscant But they weren't as sophisticated

as in Star Trek You can move you can even fire

out of a cloak if you know how to do it, right?

But in Star Wars, it's very primitive cloaking

but it's another example to something that we're

getting to in real life too now Yeah, I mean,

we do have the adaptive camouflage for tanks.

We even have, technically, for all intents and

purposes, we have the Harry Potter invisibility

cloak. It works like the Predator because it

bends light around you. So it's kind of like

in Ghost Recon Future Soldier game that just

came out a few weeks ago. That's how that technology

is meant to work. But anyway, I think technology...

in Star Trek is definitely superior simply because

it can do wonderful things like replicators,

transporters. Warp drive is not as fast as light

speed because light speed accesses hyperspace,

which is technically another dimension. You can

travel clear across the galaxy in like a couple

of days. In Star Trek, that would take you hundreds

of thousands of years. I mean, although... Or

it's like you it's like you were saying before

the Star Trek is the more realistic ones as far

as oh, yeah You know I mean Star Wars is more

out of this world like with no limits where Star

Trek is trying to kind of be in a universe with

some rules You know almost like this could be

what civilization would eventually go through

and it's still abiding by those rules Where Star

Wars it's like it takes physics into account

Right. Yeah. I mean, one of the things I love

in the Star Trek Transporter, there's something

called the Heisenberg Compensator. And the Heisenberg

Compensator, it's basically that random element

in life, in reality and physics that says your

molecule, like we were talking about how it scans

you in. The Heisenberg Compensator makes up that

random element. So when you transport it, like

it's baseball, your ass doesn't end up in your

front. It has to compensate for that random chance

element that something could move on you. And

that's what I like about Star Trek. Like you

said, they try and base it more in reality. We've

seen elements of this come to fruitation, such

as cell phones came out of the old flip communicator.

Stuff like the Tupac hologram. When you think

about it, that's basically the holodeck coming

to life. Part of it and as video games are progressing

and we're getting more virtual reality. I mean,

that's what I'm saying Yeah, the holodeck is

not that far off. Yeah, you know a place where

you can go or you know a Room that you can create

in your own house or something where you can

totally interact with the with the computer or

the video game, etc Or or even the community

or even like, you know video Communication as

far as like, you know webcams or you know through

phones Skype or whatever, you know all the the

web cam or video communication like you could

see in both Back to the Future or in Star Trek.

Now, in Star Wars' defense, there's some wonderful

technology there. For example, one of the things

that was introduced in the Dark Empire series

of comic books was something called the World

Devastator. It was basically a factory the size

of like a city that would go down to planets

such as Mon Calamari. eat it and convert its

raw materials in the TIE fighters, add -ats,

etc. Also, look at the cloning facilities on

Kamino. In Star Trek, cloning is very much frowned

upon. I mean, look what happened with Khan, for

example, and the eugenics wars of the 1990s.

Whereas in Star Trek, or sorry, Star Wars, rather,

they created an entire army, trained them in

utero, by implanting flash memory onto them so

they would grow up, they'd train some more, they'd

be fully grown in like five to seven years. So

certain technologies in Star Wars are light years

more advanced than Star Trek. I'm trying to think

of other really cool tech. And that's again because

there's no limits so to speak in Star Wars. Yeah,

I mean they have weapons that can create black

holes. There's a weapon someone creates that

they steal an old Death Star prototype and turn

it into the dark saber which is basically a mobile

death star laser I mean you're right they're

not limited by physics or anything else they

if they want to make something that can blow

up a sun that fits in the size of your hand they

can do that right um I guess we can vote on this

one then it sounds like uh Mike you're voting

Star Trek on this one Birdman yes yes Mike Blanchard

Star Trek Mike Wilson I'm gonna go with Star

Trek There's too many mics here. I'm going with

Star Trek as well, and that should make Steve

happy. Star Trek. All right, sticking with our

kind of an example of technology here, which

franchise has better artificial life? um the

artificial life forms whether you want to look

at like a data or a lore in a star trek whether

you want to look at all the different droids

in star wars just any artificial life in general

which franchise does it better i know it i know

everybody really hates the prequels in star wars

okay but i'm sorry the best part of Those prequels

is the fact that you say are two flying you're

gonna die are two fucking flies and that's fucking

awesome are two actually gets in on the action

and That was fucking awesome. I don't care what

you stupid fucking Canadian think that was fucking

awesome. That was a country I'm from Indiana

and I didn't like that. I'm not from Canada So,

no, I didn't like that at all. We're talking

about a droid that got stuck in a sand dune.

Why didn't he fly away? I don't know! It doesn't

make any sense. Coming from someone that likes

Transformers animated, I thought you would love

that. I'm just kidding. On the other hand, I

will say that I would have preferred, I know

this will never happen, but back in the day,

I would have preferred the team up of Data and

R2 versus C3PO and R2, because C3PO, honestly,

he's not that good. He's essentially a rust bucket,

falling apart translator. That I think in one

way you're looking at artificial life in Star

Wars where it's more quantity versus quality

Right and in Star Trek. It's less quantity, but

really good quality, right? Yeah, there's barely

any quantity I mean does Star Trek have artificial

life forms outside of data and lore image Well,

okay. Well, we'll take the image, but he's a

hologram and not a robot I really liked the EMH

and one of the best parts for me of Voyager was

watching Robert Picardo's character evolve. But,

you know, that's it's still you're looking at

Slim Pickens here. Well, then again, how do you

determine our artificial life? But I look at

it as sentience. And one of the things that it's

going to. put my factor towards Star Trek in

this one, Star Wars is really cavalier with the

way they treat droids, because let's just say,

let's, okay, let me, let's go around the room.

Do you presume C -3PO and R2 -D2 as sentient

beings? Do you see them as I think, therefore,

I am? I would say yes. Okay. Star Wars at the

end of, at the end of episode three, will this

mind wipe them? What? That's murder. They don't

get mindwiped. Well, artificial life in Star

Wars consists of droids that haven't had a recent

memory wipe. Because they develop personalities

outside of their initial programming by gaining

experience in the world. So experience shapes

their outlook just like real people. And you

could, tell me if I'm wrong here, but couldn't

you also, wasn't it referenced that you could

wipe the memory of data as well? You could, but

data would be able to defend himself, whereas

C -3PO and R2, they just accept it. Well, not

defend himself if you turn him off at the neck.

Doesn't matter. He still has preventative stuff

in place. Right. I'm just saying it could be

done. Right. And that argument makes a perfect

point because actually C -3PO wanted his memory

erased. He wanted to forget all about everything

that happened in the prequels. What? Where? No,

he didn't. Which means they don't respect R2

-D2's life. or no one thought he or no one respected

him enough because he was only an astromech.

So there's second class citizenry there. Well,

I think it also goes to the kind of what we were

talking about with the last point a little bit

too with technology is, you know, in the in the

Star Wars universe, there's no limits. There's

it's just like we could easily create this stuff.

Droids exist everywhere. All races seem to have

access to, you know, dozens and dozens of a variety

of droids. Whereas the Star Trek For you know

in their universe. It's something like it should

be that's much more hard harder to to build to

create to You know bring into existence which

is why we only have a couple because it's not

something that's so easily done and replicated

What I meant earlier about That C3PO wanted his

memory erased. Didn't he say in the beginning

of episode four, I hate all this war stuff, I

just wish that they would erase? He said something

to the effect of he wanted his mind wiped. When

they were on the ship in the very beginning.

Not that I can recall unless someone wants to

pull up the script right now it'd be in the first

ten pages, but I don't think so. Now there was

a comic book series where someone reprogrammed

him to be the leader of a droid rebellion, I

think, once again from Dark Horse, but I think

Star Trek treats it a lot better because there's

an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation where

Captain Picard has to defend Data's right not

to be disassembled. And then the doctor appeals

to the Federation Council to recognize photonic

life forms as a new form of life, as he is an

artificial intelligence. And they rule in his

favor that he's not necessarily a sentient being,

but they recognize his play as a protected work

of art, which means he's an author and protected

by law. I feel the Star Trek universe respects

artificial life more because there are artificial

intelligence. Think how many episodes have the

holodeck going nuts and creating holographic

characters for all intents and purposes are alive.

Whereas Star Wars, they are tools meant to be

used. And if you don't like them, just mind wipe

them. Who cares? Yeah. Disposable citizenry.

I realize I'm taking the high moral road on this

very geeky discussion. I recognize that but I

think it's something to think about too. I mean

data, lore, the EMH, there's even several EMHs

that have gone on. There was an EMH that got

left in the Delta quadrant that was part of a

doctor's backup memory pod. There was copies

of the doctor left behind on a world where they

didn't have music. So I don't know. I feel like

artificial life has more of a chance to explore

and grow its character potential. I think partially

due to the strength of the writers from Star

Trek, whereas George Lucas, as much as I enjoy

a galaxy far, far away, doesn't know anything

about character development, truthfully. Well,

for me, what it boils down to is who is the more

valuable asset? Data or anidroid? Data. Mean

his hands down. Yeah So that's why as far as

a likable character a character with with incredible

amount of depth like like Mike was referring

to I Just like the way artificial life is handled

by Star Trek better and that's who gets my vote

of Star Trek Blanchard Star Trek and I will say

I just finished listening to The Nerdist podcast

episode with Brent Spiner. He does a perfect

impression of Patrick Stewart Brent Spiner's

awesome. Birdman, who's your vote for? I have

to go with Star Trek because of Data and because

of the EMH. Mr. Wilson, I just like calling you

that. You can call me that. Blanchard does. I'm

going to have to go against you guys and go with

Star Wars just based upon personality alone.

Because Data doesn't have a personality. He's

got zero personality whereas even R2 -D2 who

doesn't speak has more personality than Data.

Data's personality evolves as the series goes

on as does the EMH. So it's, I'm still going

Trek. Alrighty, so that settles that one and

we're moving away from, you know, we've talked

about vehicles and weapons and technology and

artificial life. So now we're going to move into

actual life here and get away from metal and

all that stuff. And our first category for that

is the different alien races and which franchise

had the better alien races, better creations,

etc. So with Star Trek we're talking about stuff

like the Bajorans, the Borg, Betazoids, Cardassians,

Ferengis, Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, etc. Star

Wars, we have the Ewoks, the Gungans, the Hutts,

the Jawas, the Tuskens, the Wookies. Mon Calamari

and the Moideans Mandalorians, etc, etc, etc.

I Want to get on a soapbox for a moment here

because this is near and dear to my heart All

right, here we go. Ahem. All right, without a

doubt Star Wars has better aliens and I'll back

this up here The problem with the Star Trek aliens

are that they almost always look like humans

with stuff on their heads And I understand that

that's because this is a TV show and they're

limited in that way But also each alien species

has an underlying trait with little exceptions

for each character within that species So Klingons

are ruthless barbarians Ferengi are greedy and

conniving Vulcans show no emotion And that is

their character, for the most part. Star Wars

has a lot of variety in its alien species. They

come in all shapes and sizes, and they speak

all sorts of languages, because there's no universal

translator here. So they have slug people, they

have Bigfoot people, they have teddy bear people.

Humans are the standard, and the Empire is even

prejudiced against aliens. I mean, they hate

aliens. Would they hate them as much if they

all look like us with stuff on our heads? Yeah,

I don't know. So the Empire is racist. They are

all racist. Yeah, and they go George Lucas. Thanks

I know I'm just that at all What does Admiral

Ackbar look like a human? Oh, no, because his

hands are huge and the web then his head Like

you're making me I was convinced I was gonna

be all about Star Trek in this one and you're

making me think about stuff now You can tell

you can tell that Akbar's from a water planet

just by the way you he looks He can swim like

a motherfucker but His personality, his personality

is that, like, what does a fish guy act like?

You know, no, he's a general. Yeah, exactly,

yeah. He's a general. He acts with authority.

Do all Californians sit around and go, it's a

trap. No, it's just him. Do all Borgs sit around

and go, you will be assimilated. Yes. Because

with little exception, that is their character.

Okay, then why do all the Nimoydians sound like

stereotypical Japanese people, then? Well, they

might sound the same, but I understand what he's

saying, but I think the argument there would

be the Tuscan Raiders and possibly the Jawas.

Because they do basically have a, you know, a

trait, so to speak, for their race and all of

them fall into that, so to speak. I understand

what you're saying and it applies with a lot

of the other alien. that we encounter in Star

Wars, but there are a couple that would fit into

your Star Trek mold, too. There are reasons why

all the Star Trek aliens look alike. There was

an episode in Star Trek, The Next Generation,

where Captain Picard and the crew of the Enterprise

are looking for... There was a guy called Professor

Galen, and he left behind all these clues, and

there was traces of an alien civilization that

seeded the entire galaxy. Worriest episode ever.

I thought it... I thought it was cool in the

idea. But think about that. That's why all the

Alpha Quadrant races look the majority the same.

And I guess you could expand that to the Delta

Quadrant and Gamma Quadrant, too. I guess with

the exception of the founders. But stuff like

that. I mean, that's a possible explanation.

And I realize that's a cop out. I really do.

But there are races in Star Trek that are not.

The same there's like dolphin people and stuff

like that Like they they have to fill quarters

with water for them to be on the enterprise There

actually is a kind of a funny article over on

topless robot .com It talks about some of the

lamest Star Trek aliens and so and it's whatever

they try and break the mold of Hey, we're just

people with shit on our heads So There were plenty,

yeah, I think it's only fair that we, there are

plenty of Star Trek villains that are more animal

-like or more creature -like, more monster -like.

They just, none of them were able to get a, you

know, a main recurring, you know, presence in

the franchise. Television budgets! Right. But

I'm just saying, I mean, let's not say that all

aliens in Star Trek are human -looking or, you

know, this or that, because obviously there were

plenty that were pretty ferocious or weird or...

ridiculous looking. Whereas there's really no

human, almost no human -like, I mean there are,

but there's very slim pickings as far as human

-like alien races in Star Wars. Yeah. A lot of

diversity. I can name five off the top of my

head. That's what I'm saying, there's a few,

but it's a much more slim picking than, I mean

you could name 20 or 30 of the more monster slash

animal -like aliens. Yeah, and... The only place

you really see the super weird aliens is in the

comic books or in the novels. Maybe Java's palace.

I mean there were a lot of weird aliens in Java's

palace Yeah, but in the end they're just kind

of stupid looking Muppet people. I mean, I'm

looking specifically at yak face Oh god, he did

not just go there because the first thing I thought

of was Empire had the better ending all Jedi

had was a bunch of Muppets. It's true See, I

fucking Muppets, but honestly I think you're

not a far escape fan then Not well that that

blue guy is kind of cool. Um, but you know, there's

just Things about Star Wars and some of their

and like I said, I'm a huge star Star Wars not

really you should see my bookshelf It's depressing

and sad. Um, but I don't know I'll have to take

a picture dude. It's it's buckling under the

weight of all the Star Wars graphic novels I

uh anyway moving on um aliens yes um I think

Star Wars has more fantastic and more creative

people but alien races and Star Trek they're

cultured there's a reason why they're the way

they are and there's more more politics at play

than Oh, you broke our blockade and trade tariffs.

You know what I'm saying? That's all there is

is politics. Every episode is them sitting here

on a table politicking. So let me see better

written versus dramatic. That's a different that's

a different section. But then it has to do with

intelligence levels. Yeah, I mean, although I

think some of the alien. I was just gonna say

as far as intelligence, I mean both both franchises

have some very very highly intelligent alien

races and both have some very low on the intelligence

scale intelligent or alien races. I don't think

there's... I just had a thought. Do you know

why Star Trek wins this argument for one simple,

for two simple reasons? Q. The Borg. Q. Gone.

But true, he exists. And there's the Q continuum.

What do you guys have? As you put it, teddy bear

people. You stole my joke, damn it. And the Borg.

And you are the weakest link. Exactly. I would

be offended if there was an omnipotent god character

in Star Wars. To me, that just isn't... I'm partially

offended that it's in Star Trek. I mean, it's

literally just such a sad kappa. They did it

so often in the 60s series. I'm on a planet and

I can't get off the planet because there's an

omnipotent god creature here. They only had an

omnipotent being once. No, it's like Scooby -Doo.

They always find out, oh, it's not really a mummy.

It's actually a guy in a mask. You know, oh,

there's a mirror over here. That's the source

of the power. And if I destroy the mirror, oh,

look, there's a computer that gives him his,

you know, omnipotency. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And

that happened like 10 times in the original series.

Pay no attention to that Wookie behind the curtain.

I'm starting to think that Mike is here only

for comedic relief. I'm just kidding. I don't

know. I think you all bring up. Excellent points,

and I man I like the alien races of both franchises

for completely different reasons and The more

I think of it though in the alien races in Star

Wars the only reasons I like some of them are

more for individual people within those alien

races and the personalities that they have, you

know, like a Chewbacca or, you know, like a Wicked

or some of the different Ewoks, et cetera, or

Jabba the Hutt. Like, it's more of the individual

personalities. Whereas in the Star Trek, if you're

looking at alien races, I like them for the alien

race in general. Like, Klingons are just badass.

Like, Klingons are awesome. I like that. You

know, Vulcans and Rhinos. Backing up my argument.

Right, but... It still leaves me in a conundrum

as far as which alien race I like better as far

as which franchise did them better. I mean, one

put more emphasis on the individual and one put

more emphasis on the race as a whole. I'm torn.

Someone convince me. Abstain. Come to the dark

side. We have cookies. Resistance is futile.

We want Wookiees. We have Wookiees. I mean, it's

clear that, Wilson, you're voting for Star Wars.

I'm going to go with Star Wars. And I think it's

clear that either Birdman or Steve, one of you

is going to go for Star Trek, I know. Oh, yeah,

Trek all the way. I'm going Trek all the way.

I just can't sit behind teddy bears and these

goofy looking fish people that are pretty much.

I mean, seriously, they got a giant freaking

blob, they got teddy bear people, they got people

that wear hoods, and then they've got fish people.

And one of them looks like a dude with a thing

on his head. Yeah, compared to humans with wrinkles

on their face. I can deal with that. I'd rather

have something where they don't go... The point

is they're aliens. They should be alien. They

shouldn't look like us. All right, I'm voting

Star Wars And yeah, think think think think think

think think think think Yeah, you're thinking

think think think think think I'm double -edged

worthy of assimilation I almost have to I almost

should eliminate Star Wars just for Jar Jar Binks

So let me see, you have annoying Japanese stereotypes,

you have annoying Jamaican stereotypes, and fucking

teddy bear people. We have John Delancey and

the Borg. Yeah. I think as far as who created

the more... I think there was more creative as

far as in the actual physical characteristics

and the look and the creation aspect of the Star

Wars alien races. Something is just cool, though,

about Klingons and Romulans and... You know,

yeah, not all of them had their specific... But

who's your favorite Klingon? Worf. Well, he doesn't

count. You have Worf and Spock, so, I mean, you

do have some that has some individual... I'm

not talking about Spock as a Klingon. I'm talking

about in the alien races. You do have some that,

you know, you get your personality in a few of

them. I'm gonna vote for Star Trek on this one.

I just, there's something cool about Klingons

and Vulcans and Romulans, et cetera. I don't

know. It's a trap. It's bullcrap. It's some crap.

Moving on. We can't refill assets of that magnitude.

I am learning though through this. I did not

realize, Steve, that you're so pro Star Trek

in this argument. Oh, he is. He is very pro Star

Trek. Hence Future Imperfect. Well, Birdman's

a part of that and he's huge Star Wars. I love

Star Wars too, but I love Star Trek more. Moving

on. For this one, if you go to any... geek outlet

or anybody that's ever tackled this question

it's always hands down this is like one of the

biggest landslides for one franchise ever and

i'm interested to see how we discuss it but the

women of the different franchises we're talking

about star trek hotties versus star wars hotties

um not just limited to the ones we're talking

or you know that we'll picture in the post and

you guys can mention some of your favorites or

whatever but as far as when it comes down to

the women in the two universes mike I have just

just just by these pictures because this is really

all that I know I have to go track because God

damn right you do of the simple fact that Queen

Amidala is the whitest albino I've ever met outside

of Snowball sailor Padme without the makeup she's

essentially a fake Leia because they had to put

on those earmuffs. Leia herself, while the bikini

is all well and good, there are so many damn

people that cosplay as Leia in the bikini and

it just ruins the illusion. Natalie Portman's

hot. That's hot ass bitches in a metal bikini.

Natalie Portman's hot. The problem, this is one

of George Lucas's failing though, is he did not

put... hot women in his universe. No, he did

not. Star Trek would have them all over the place.

Not only do you have some of the main, like,

crew members of Star Trek, but, I mean, just

look at the fact that you always had Captain

Kirk or Captain Picard or whoever, you know,

macking on some chick or coming across some chick,

especially Captain Kirk. You know, he had Hotties

of the Week, it seemed like. Even in the movies.

That's just something you can appreciate of Star

Trek. I mean, I don't see the appeal of... I've

never seen the appeal of Princess Leia and I've

never seen the appeal of Counselor Troi. I don't

get it. I don't get why people think those two

individuals are hot. I feel boner. Well, if you're

pitting those two, I'd still say Leia over Troi,

but... But I mean, I know a lot of people in

that are huge fans of one franchise or the other

You know point to those two as as like the hottest

ones or something, but Star Trek I mean look

at Zoe Saldana and in the last movie She's freaking

hot Jerry Ryan is hot. I actually met Jerry Ryan

once and I I almost hyperventilated That wasn't

all he did. I mean it's basically like you have

dozens and dozens maybe even hundreds of women

on the Star Trek side and you have like two or

three on the Star Wars side and then you have

to go into weird -looking aliens. Yeah. Although,

weird piece of trivia, the woman who plays Isla

Secura, the blue Twi 'leak chick, I think her

real name is Amy, she actually... Model. No,

she's an ILM artist. She works on episode two,

that's why she's in the movie. She's like, guys,

we need somebody. OK, I'll do it. There was a

few models somewhere in the prequels, I think,

in the Queens group or this or that. I mean,

so there was a few, but I mean, as far as actual

characters. Yeah, well, and besides her, too.

But if you want to actually talk about characters

with names and personalities, you don't have

a lot to choose from for Star Wars. I don't know

why there wasn't more women in Star Wars. Well,

OK, not going off. Screen time. Well, not going

off Expanded Universe for either franchise. Don't

need to. Just looking at the TV shows and the

movies of Trek versus six Star Wars films. You're

not going to have a lot of hot women in six films.

Because you don't have a lot of time for character

development. Exactly. And one of the reasons

why I can't pick Star Wars in this is because,

I don't know, and Steve and Dodd can correct

me on this, I don't know if there was ever any

incest in Star Trek, but there's plenty of incest

in episode four. There was one kiss. What are

you talking about? It was a kiss on the cheek.

It's not like she blew him. Yeah, there's plenty

of incest. Oh, she kissed him on the lip. There's

no incest. Incest is... Come on, incest is...

There's a connotation there that you know. There's

a connotation there that you know the person's

related to and you decide you don't care. You

can't call someone, you know, accuse someone

of being incestual if they don't. Freaking have

a clue. I mean, we're all in there. I think that

was episode 5 by the way Yeah, if you want to

be you want to be she kissed Luke to make Han

jealous Yeah, but if you want to be nitpicky

aren't we all ancestral and some way or shape

or form as part of the human race? We all come

from the same descendants come on now I was grown

in a test tube. Thank you very much Is anybody

even contemplating? I hope Canada comes and fucks

you in the ass. That's okay. It will be the ultimate

day when Chad Groger comes to his door and says

stop fucking talking about us and walks away.

I think I'm gonna write him right now. I know

his agent. Hold on. Celine Dion's gonna come

and mess you up. Is there anybody that's gonna

venture and try to put themselves out there and

vote for Star Wars in this category? You know,

there was a day when I found Celine Dion kind

of hot, actually. I am right that this is unanimous

vote for Star Trek, right? Anyways, voting time.

No, it's just unanimous for Star Trek, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speak now or forever hold your

peace. The terrible things I would do to Seven

of Nine, just saying. There's only one worth

a damn in Star Wars and that's Natalie Portman.

Yes. Natalie Portman is a less curvy Kira Knightley.

I can't get them. They're both hot. I've seen

them both hopeless. I'm totally cool with that.

But for the purpose of this, I'd have to go track.

The purpose of this discussion, I just want to

throw one thing out. I'm going to vote for Star

Trek. Star Trek gets the win for me because Basically

the same reason that they lost in the last category,

which is all the aliens look like people with

stuff on their heads. Well, we can let this slide

because that's still attractive, you know. Really

hot people with stuff on their heads are still

really hot, right? Well, it helps that the standard

Starfleet issue uniform for women is a catsuit.

And sometimes it's low cut with a miniskirt,

which doesn't hurt. There is something we should

mention. I mean we are basing this purely on

looks I mean should we look at them as individual

characters as well because princess Leia I Yeah,

I mean I can't I don't find her particularly

strong character all things considered when you

compare the other Star Trek characters She's

a princess and a general. She's just not very

pretty Yeah And a Jedi she's a Jedi but Come

on, we're all shallow. It's all based on next.

We're all shallow, basically. Well, no, I mean,

if you look at a lot of the Star Trek characters,

if you look at the Star Trek characters, their

their progress, their character development,

it's like seven of nine goes from being Borg

to somebody halfway normal. Well, you can't really

say Zoe Saldana, but if you look at like to Paul,

her character, there's a lot of character growth

there. Up until they mercilessly cut that series

short far beyond this time. I think we had a

GCN war's foul, though. Mike just mentioned bringing

class into a geek debate. That's not allowed.

Oh, we lost all... Oh, we're not classy here,

no. You can't have a funny class. We lost all

our females. Alright, I vote Star Trek. Alright,

it's a clear -cut winner there on that category.

This next one is going to seem kind of a bit...

I don't know, manipulated or create weirdly juxtaposed

or whatever you want to say here, but we've put

for category eight Starfleet versus the Jedi,

as far as which was the better organization.

a way to talk about not just all the captains,

but Starfleet in general as an organization.

And we wanted to be able to talk about the Jedi's

and their organizations. And Steve brought up

some good points as to they are both kind of

like the peacekeeping organizations of their

respective franchises. So that's who we're pitting

against each other in category eight. Does anybody

want to take a stab at starting this one? Can

I? Sure. All right. I'm gonna fall back on my

apples and oranges again. It's hard to make a

comparison here because these are two very different

organizations. Starfleet is a government operation

organized like a military organization. They

have a guy at the top, followed by a set of admirals,

sorry, followed by the commodores and then the

captains and then the crew. So it's roughly analogous

to our current Navy. Whereas the Jedi Order is

a group of individuals that take leadership from

a council consisting of, I think it's nine master

Jedi. The only ranks involved are that of learner,

knight, and master. You can have different specializations

of Jedi, but they're all beholden to the council.

So it's more like a religious order than a government

organization. So you can't really say there is

also no What one at a time I'm saying it's hard

to say which is better It depends on if you think

orders should come from the top and filter down

or if you think that each person should decide

his or his or her own destiny With training consideration

from a mentor One of the things I don't like

about the Jedi and the Jedi Council in general

is there is no democratic process Think about

it. People are not elected. They choose. They're

an order unto themselves. They are not responsible

to the people. And I think in Star Wars Knights

of the Old Republic, they're a separate faction.

Which means they're not, they can pretty much

do what they want. They listen and advise the

Galactic Senate, as far as I understand. They

are both there though to try to keep peace amongst

their respective galaxies. But it's not to say

they couldn't do something wrong. Jedi can be

corrupted. Right, incident a captain could be

traitorous. Yeah, but the dark side is a mystical

side of the force. When someone decides to go

bad, it's because of a very earthly reason, greed

or something else. If someone turns to the dark

side, it could be something mystical entirely.

I'm not sure I want an us, a super powered army

of mystical individuals who could kick my ass

at a distance in charge. Starfleet, there's at

least a process to it and they do have their

own internal security to weed out threats and

section 31. And I think what we're forgetting

here is that between the two franchises, as Mike

just said, they are a governmental body. Whereas

by the time episode four, five and six have happened

in the continuity of the films, they've destroyed

the government. They've destroyed all order when

it comes to the Galactic Senate and all that

stuff. So that's the other thing to think of.

Well, I don't know. To me, though, to me, I don't

know. The Jedi Order. It's so Well put together

and I know there's much more of a hierarchy in

Starfleet But you could have one Jedi You know

way off in this corner of the world and one Jedi

way off on this planet And there still is that

like the overarching principles that they live

by keeps them as one and they're there Even though

they're so spread out. They're capable of so

much whereas Obviously Starfleet is is more a

lot more dependent on a large number of people

That are you know? Making this whole hierarchy

and the crews and in all these ships everywhere.

It's it requires a lot more manpower Who said

the Jedi was like a religious order me? Okay,

I was gonna say I hate you Dodd because I thought

it was Dodd that said it because the first thing

I thought of was Anakin's a bad priest Have you

noticed it like they're basically the basic uniform

of a Jedi is They're supposed to be religious

right there were your monks with with with with

laser swords But I guess I mean if you if you

are going to be, you know, living in a universe

that is protected by Starfleet versus living

in a universe that is protected by the Jedi Order.

Which would you prefer, I guess, is what it comes

down to. I think we have to look at their greatest

failures first. Let's look at the Jedi. The Sith

uprising they didn't see happening in their own

fucking backyard. Starfleet's greatest failing.

Well, there are several. You can look at the

uh wolf three three five nine where we lost against

the borg or i'm thinking failure as an organization

the maki from ds9 good call yeah so their their

greatest strength will be determined by their

greatest weakness the jedi were blinded let me

see count dooku he's not capable of this he's

not in his character Did you fucking talk to

anybody? Do you not realize he's a fucking loony

tune with all your missile cars? You didn't see

this shit coming. You have clairvoyance of the

future. Maybe you should use it Oh, yeah, there's

like nine of you Starfleet. There's like what

a thousand if not more, but then again, but planets

But that nine, you know, whether it be nine or

however many few it dwindled down to you know

If you go into expanded universe or this or that

or drain, you know really delve into the Clone

Wars period With that limited number look at

what they were capable of and eventually, you

know, obviously, you know, blah blah blah restoring

order or And then they got out by clone and then

they got my pool by by poor clone troopers Yeah

Look at the technology they have as well. We've

already said that like Light speed is faster

than warp drive. So if I had a problem on my

planet, I could either you know have Jedi here

tomorrow to settle things or I could wait two

weeks for Starfleet to send the Enterprise No

one's ever used ludicrous speed before You were

the weakest link goodbye Yeah, you've got one

Jedi flying into the system to take care of business

right versus you know an entire ship coming Like

an episode one or episode two or episode three

they weren't over their head they were cool they're

always over their head this is what i don't trust

and and maybe it's just my political science

background etc but there is so much more red

tape politics and government bureaucracy to deal

with in starfleet that i don't necessarily you

know if i want to pick who to be to protected

by or which universe to live in i trust what

the Jedi can do and what they are capable of

without having to go through all the proper channels

and the red tape and the corrupt politicians

that could be taking place in Starfleet. Now

I realize that there are some people that defect

and there are some, you know, it's not just a

happy family in the Jedi Order, so to speak,

but to me, I don't want to be protected by a

political body as much as Starfleet is way more

political than the Jedi Order. I trust people

that I voted for. Well, you're not voting for

Starfleet, though. Well, the people still have

a kind of voice in it, though. If someone's very

happy. Well, I don't think Starfleet is not a

political body as much as it is a military organization.

It's the Navy. But if you applied to the Federation...

But if you said something to the Federation...

Well, you think the League of Planets has an

army? Or is it just the Navy? Well, there are

Starfleet Marines. politicking organizations

going on here. Not just the Navy. I like the

idea of a group that is in charge that has just

this body, this council, whether it be nine people

or just a small number of people. I like that

so much better than this. We have this guy at

top and then he funnels down and makes the orders

for these six down here and then that goes down

24 and then down to 50. And it's just like this

whole hierarchy where I just... there's always

more more opportunities for corruption or for

people who are out for personal gain or for where

the Jedi they live by these principles that for

the most part I know the movies highlight a few

people that that fall from those graces but for

the most part live by these principles that do

not fail right you know I mean they all live

by their own principles and that is the most

important part for them Whereas I just don't

know if I can trust I love the captains. I think

the captains are awesome in Starfleet, you know

Kirk and card and all those guys but We it's

just not you can't trust that many people and

that much of a chain of command I don't think

Maybe that's just because I live in in our planet

where that does not work Alright, who would rather

live in a galaxy ruled or protected by the Starfleet?

I'm going Starfleet because I trust the organization

of people that are just like me and are not mystical

supermen. Ditto. I prefer the opposite. I want

the Jedi because I'd rather have people that

have almost godlike powers protecting me. So

I will go for... But they can abuse it like the

Sith. Yeah, but they're here to protect us against

the Sith. Star Wars hands down for me on this

one. Same for me. Take your chances, Palpatine.

Star Wars. All righty. We got two more categories

before we take a small break here. And the first

one, since we kind of introduced characters here

in the last couple, I just want to take all general

good, heroic characters here in category nine,

the major good characters of each franchise.

So anybody that you can think of that was the

heroic or good characters in Star Trek versus

the heroic or good characters in Star Wars, which

franchise did a better job with the heroes? Oh,

is this even a question, Star Trek, Star Wars?

Well, let's discuss. Alright explain to me how

mannequin Skywalker improved the lives of people

across the galaxy He brought balance to the force

ultimately, okay fair enough. I have him kids.

Oh They got a whole series called the Clone Wars

that talks about how Anakin was a good guy before

he became evil killed all his friends and yeah

Okay, so let me still have a setting break. So

you have six films maybe 30 to 40 episodes of

a series versus seven seasons of Star Trek, TNG,

three seasons of the original series. I think

there's a lot more time for Star Wars, Star Trek

characters to create more good in the universe.

Plus Picard is the master of diplomacy. And Benjamin

Sisko. Can anybody beat Han Solo? Captain Maul

from Firefly, first off. But Han Solo is one

of the best characters ever. Really look into

his character though. Think about that. I think

I knew Han is the anti -hero. He's not really

first, huh? Only in the first movie about Well,

right, but okay, but that's what I'm saying when

we first meet him. He is an anti -hero that's

what establishes him and then he eventually joins

the I wouldn't necessarily even call him an anti

-hero because it means he'd have to have a personal

stake in it. It isn't until he becomes anti -hero

until he rescues Luke from being shot by Vader.

Other than that, he's a mercenary. True. He's

fighting for money. Whereas in Star Trek, you

don't see a lot of merc characters. You see mercenary

like racists such as the Ferengi and the rules

of acquisition, but that's just capitalism gone

rampant. But what I'm saying is Star Trek...

accomplished so much more for their heroic characters.

Heroic characters had arcs. I mean, think about

how well -defined any of the characters are in

Star Wars. It's the story, but the characters,

when you think about them, are actually kind

of bland. I'm just, I'm just real curious to

go around the table here. Who, your favorite

good character from each franchise? Mine would

be Han Solo and Commander Riker. Obi -Wan and

probably Janeway for me. Steve? Do you have a

favorite good character in Star Trek? I have

multiples in Star Trek. You fence -sitter. Come

back to ya. Blanchard, do you have a favorite

in either one? I would have to say Captain Picard

and Old Ben. Old Obi -Wan. Gotcha. How about

you, Mr. Wilson? I'm having trouble thinking.

Who's my favorite captain? Geez. I'm still on

the fence as far as Picard versus Kirk. Although

I would be leaning toward Picard. Me too. Yeah.

But yeah, I don't know. I think there are a lot

of cool good characters in Star Trek. Obviously

you have, you know, basically you first and foremost

think of the crew of each ship and I am a huge

Next Generation fan and just Geordi and Worf

and Data and Riker and I mean there's so many

good characters on that. characters to love or

to really get into you know Star Wars I love

old Obi -Wan and I love Han Solo and Chewbacca

but after that I mean does anybody really love

Lando? And what have we here? He's fooling Jedi

at least I think both franchises have characters,

you know, have good characters, if that makes

any sense. They're strong and multi -layered

and Star Wars, what differentiates it, I believe,

from Star Trek is that it sticks pretty closely

to the hero's journey for his good guys. I mean,

and this works well for movies versus television.

Television, you have a long series that you have

to slowly build. character, you know, you have

character development over a long period of time

versus in a movie where, you know, stick to the

hero's journey, you can't fail, right? Star Trek

gives you a whole bridge crew of leading characters

and they're all good guys and they all have their

agendas and such and they all grow over time.

But, you know, Star Wars is more fantasy. Versus

Star Trek which is more realist Yeah, so if you

like science fantasy versus hardcore science

fiction, then you're gonna go with Star Wars

it just depends on your preference For me, I

don't know for me I think it just comes down

to the number of good guys that I really felt

connected to or attached and I I know that there

was multiple, you know, lots and lots of different

series of Star Trek and there's lots of movies,

et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, I really

only paid attention to a couple of those. So

for me, the number of characters to choose from

is not that different, even though for most people

it would be. But I still find more likable, good

characters in the Star Trek universe. So my vote

will be for Star Trek on this one. Blanchard?

Who do you like? Which good characters do you

like better? Gotta go with Star Wars Fair enough

Michael was involved I'm just gonna leave you

with this How many of these characters have you

actually cheered for? Everybody should have cheered

for Luke. I mean everybody cheers for Luke and

you know it it's like I can't I can't count on

One hand how many times I've cheered for a Star

Trek character, you know, maybe possibly uh data

at the end of uh first contact nemesis what no

first contact but but i mean literally how many

times have you stood up just cheered like yeah

you know no when the dust star blew up yeah When

when Luke swings across the chasm with Leia and

she gives him a kiss for luck. Yeah, you know,

I mean There's just so many times where you just

want to get up and rise to your feet and go You

know just express your your disbelief of gratitude

at how often she nearly took Luke's head off.

Yeah You know, I mean there's so many awesome

moments or you just want to Express yourself,

but I don't get that with Star Trek my main problem

though is the the headlining good characters

on Star Trek For me are likeable For in and my

favorite characters are some of the the headliners

Whereas Star Wars your two headliners are Luke

and Anakin and to me those are two of the least

Appealing good characters in the whole universe

for Star Wars Cause they're not developed really.

Well, it's not just that. Luke is developed to

a certain point though. It's not developed. Luke

is, Luke and, well, Anakin is more developed

than any of them, but, but it's not just the

development standpoint. I just don't think they're

likable as no matter what stage of development

you are in. I've never been a fan of Luke Skywalker.

Like everybody liked Han Solo better or everybody

liked Obi -Wan better or Yoda better. Where as

in Star Trek, I mean, Picard and Kirk and some

of these headliners are like so likable. I don't

know. I think the major flaw for me for good

characters in Star Wars is probably first and

foremost with Luke. I know everybody, you know,

disses on Anakin and I think it's just a cop

out to just dis on him and Hayden Christensen

and all this other stuff. But Luke for me is

the problem. He just wasn't a likable character

for me. Don't want to say it's a hero's journey.

He's not supposed to be likable in the beginning

in the beginning. It's Well at the beginning.

He's you know I was going into the toshi station

for power converters You know it takes three

movies to get to the point where it's like you

know I am a Jedi like my father before me and

you go You know it's at that point. It's like

wow look at where he's come from now. He is the

man that He was meant to be It's hard to say,

I didn't like Luke in the first movie because

he changes, he grows, he evolves. I don't like

him in any of the movies. I'm one of the biggest

Star Wars fans in the world, but he is one of

my least favorite characters in the Star Wars

universe. I'm assuming Birdman and Steve that

you're both voting for Star Trek on this one.

I have to simply because of character development

character arcs and I think outside of I mean

Luke and all them did one great deed save in

the galaxy How many times have the Star Trek

guys saved reality itself? More time. Don't try

Q into this. Jesus. No, not again. That's what

Q is actually actually that argument doesn't

work though because the Jedi have been around

for so many thousands and thousands of years

that but have we were to add it all up no but

I'm just saying if you were to add it all up

the Jedi have saved the universe or the galaxy

far more than Starfleet Enterprise or Star Trek

could ever hope to like that's not an extra argument

one's about yeah but how many times have they

been overthrown there's the sith war hold on

though hold on hold on though neither universe

was fine for 5 000 years neither universe has

been destroyed so they both were successful and

one has been around for thousands more years

like you can't say that the jedi failed because

that's a bad argument they they succeed in the

end they're still there they're still present

and things are still in order in the long run

like you can't take one battle and say That they

failed. I mean there was times. I'm sure that

Starfleet failed that you've mentioned even well

I'm looking at the history of star. Okay. Well

in turn you have to put it in relative scale

the Jedi have failed more often than not I Not

if you count the number of times that they've

I mean we're talking about thousands and thousands

of years that they have been battling and battling

and battling and There's no way if you were to

take a percentage wise you would say that they

failed more times than they succeeded But you

have to look at Star Trek. They're still a relatively

new world. I know, but I'm just referring to

the statement that you guys made. You guys made

the statement that Starfleet or Star Trek has

saved the universe more times than not. And that's

a bad argument because the Jedi have saved it

way more often. And my vote was for Star Trek.

Don't get me wrong here. But Star Wars and the

Jedi have saved the galaxy and their universe

exponentially more than anybody on Star Trek

could have. I see a vote change. No, I mean,

I still like the good guys in Star Trek, but

I just want to point out that that's a bad argument,

because Jedi have been around way too far and

have done way too much good to... and in the

end, both groups have been successful. One Sith

uprising versus how many assimilations from the

Borg? Well, it's been many more than just one

Sith uprising, if you look at the entirety of

Star Wars history. Alright, I'm not saying it

has been. There's like three in there, I think,

yeah. All right. Well, let's flip it to the other

side of this. Which franchise has had better

villains? Which franchise has had the better

bad characters? And I'm going to start this one

off, because to me, it's almost a flip side of

what we just talked about. To me, Star Trek did

better with the good characters, but Star Wars

did way better with the bad characters. I think

the stars, they're just more memorable, I think.

Star Wars bad guys are more memorable because

they're so visually striking. Yeah. Like Vader,

your Palpatine, your Darth Maul, Count Dooku,

Darth Revan, Darth Plagueis. Plagueis is great.

It just goes on and on. But in Star Trek, you

get villains like Gul Dukat. He's a mastermind,

I'd say, on level with Palpatine in terms of

intelligence. Not necessarily pulling cool shit

off like a galaxy -wide coup, but he did do some

pretty impressive things. If he had a horse,

he might be able to pull off a galaxy -wide coup

I give yeah to me it's weird because you do get

you know Star Wars always obviously gets bashed

on for character development and this or that

and granted a lot of that is worthy but as far

as it seems almost it the villains in Star Wars

are actually more developed than you see with

most of the villains in Star Trek because most

of it, and that has to do mainly because Star

Trek is a TV series. So you have a villain on

usually for an episode or for a couple episodes.

So you don't have a lot of time to develop individual

villains because it's more, not villain of the

week, but it's more, you know, they come and

go so much. They develop their alien races as

a whole. But individual villains that are memorable.

You just don't see that many of in Star Trek

In my I would argue that Because you look at

villains like Khan the boar queen go to cots

Um, let me see the exception of the rule the

exception that proves the rule Not that many

not that many memorable bad guys on Star Trek

on the other hand you have I just was swamped

like ten. Well, I don't know. We'll put it this

way. The Borg Queen, I believe, could be totally

trashed by Darth Maul. And Darth Maul was totally

trashed by Obi -Wan, who was totally trashed

by Darth Vader. And Boba Fett could take out

Khan easily. Boba Fett, that should have been

it right there, Boba Fett. Boba Fett, Khan, no

contest. Boba Fett would kick his ass. But Boba

Fett didn't get cool until the Expanded Universe.

On film, he's an idiot. Yeah, he got taken out

by a blind guy. The first time I saw that uniform,

Boba Fett was cool. Exactly. I don't care what

color it is. If it's Macquarie White or Green

or any Mandalorian color. It doesn't even have

to be Boba Fett. It's just Mandalorian armor.

Cool. Period. He could have been a cameo in one

episode, and that's all we ever would have saw

of him, and he would have never spoken. He still

would have been cool. Even in the Christmas special,

he was cool. Oh, wow. Damn. I don't know. To

me, this is just opposite. I think Star Trek

does better with the good guys. I think Star

Wars does better with the bad guys. I think Star

Trek has more memorable, but I think Star Trek

villains are maybe more I think they... I don't

know. It's hard to compare, once again, because

of the scales we're talking about here. Galactic

Genocide versus... I don't know. I think the

Borg are a pretty convincing fucking bad guy.

I think they'd wipe out the Sith quite heavily

just due to sheer numbers. I mean, you were saying

Darth... Or what was it? Darth Maul could take

out the Borg Queen? Yep. You know why he couldn't?

Because he's arrogant. The Borg adapt. Lightsaber

is energy. The force even technically is energy

itself. Palpatine would just like send a lighting

ball down on the Borg and it would just be done.

But it's energy. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I mean,

it depends on how technical you want to take

this. But in terms of sheer pop culture memorability,

yeah, Darth Vader, he is fucking awesome. But

when you think about it, he got taken down pretty

easily in the movies. Well pretty what I Wouldn't

say that where you were referring to like what

part of the movie did he get taken down? I mean

he went down by choice at the end think about

how Fierce he fought though. I mean now admittedly

because it was a behind -the -scenes thing They

couldn't go hardcore in episode 4 and then it

wasn't until they brought in Nick Galliard for

episode 5 and 6 that the lightsaber fights stepped

up, but I'm probably Nerd background never mind.

Um, it's I don't know just I don't see Vader

as much of a physical threat He's basically implied

to be a huge physical threat, but I think Grievous

is a much more physical threat than Vader. I

guess well physically Yeah, because Vader is

destroyed before he becomes Vader as far as physicalness,

you know physicality goes But his power of the

force is basically unrivaled and it's not until

he decides But we never really see is Well, never

really see it. Are you kidding me? Did you not

see the force choke scene in the beginning of

episode four? Okay, so there's one keep going.

You could do that. I will Yeah, but I'm saying

other Star Trek characters. Okay Q. Let's compare

them against Q. Where's your Vader now? Dead

horse back out, but it works. Does it not? Q

is a writing crutch. Vader's biggest power is

there and nobody really takes him down. He lays

his life on the line to unify and bring balance

to the force in the end. That's his own choice.

Nobody ever takes Vader down. Nobody ever defeats

Vader. The argument could be made that his will

gave out after Luke kept bashing him over the

head with the lightsaber. He sacrificed himself

to save his son. Right, that's true. But what

I'm saying is what led up to that is the fact

that Luke kept bashing him over the head with

a lightsaber. Right, because, you know, as far

as, but at any point he could have forced, choked

the fuck out of Luke. He wasn't trying to kill

him. He never intended to kill him. Right. He

could have at any time. I'm saying, if Vader's

such a badass, I never really saw it. And I love

Vader. Vader's one of my favorite all -time bad

guys. Let's let Steve weigh in, because I know

Steve wanted to say something. What do you got,

Steve? Well, I, well, for one, Dot already said

most of what I was going to say. I do have to

argue, I mean, yeah, the Star Wars villains are

more memorable. You've got you know Vader and

Palpatine those are pretty much the key to the

rest of them are completely You know absent -minded

for the most part. Nobody cares because those

were established back in the 70s. And so that's

what everybody knows Whereas Trek has a long

standing line since the 60s of Continuous villains

and then they didn't actually get good until

the 90s So I mean in that sense I can see...

It's not individual personalities. I understand.

I talked about the franchise overall. I'm not

naming like humor, Borg, or Klingons, or whatever,

but the Star Wars villains, everybody kind of

knows them frontward and backward, whereas the

Star Trek, not so much. So in that sense, I can

see Star Wars winning, but I still, I don't know,

I'm kind of torn between the two. At this point

you have a strong bias I have a strong bias on

both sides because I have a love for the the

villains on the Trek side and I have a strong

bias for the the two Star Wars villains, so I

think I will wait until official voting begins

before I decide what I do want to bring up one

thing about one of the bad characters Actually

the family of bad characters here Worst deaths

ever you got decapitated and then you got And

then your son got thrown to the Sarlacc. Are

you serious? The Fets are the worst bad characters.

We also didn't talk about, we didn't talk about

Jabba the Hood too. That's true, but Jabba really,

he doesn't do anything. He's essentially the

fat Tony of the Star Wars universe. He doesn't

do shit. And Quark would honestly talk circles

around Jabba. It's true. that's that's that's

that's that's that's that's that's that's that's

that's that's that's that's that's that's that's

that's that's that's that's that's that's that's

Let's get our actual official votes, though,

for the bad character, starting with Mike Wilson.

I'm so Star Wars. As am I. Same here. Dodd? It

doesn't matter what Dodd thinks, because Star

Wars clinches it. See, on one hand, the Star

Wars villains are much more memorable. On the

other hand, Star Trek villains are much more

capable. You know what? Steve, you vote first,

man. I've got to think about this one. Let this

percolate for a minute. Percolate. Nice. Percolate

it. Oh, shit. You two can do it. You two can

vote for Star Wars. It's possible. It is a tough

choice. I mean, look at how stupid Darth Maul

was, all things considered. Well, the only one...

The only one with with us a set of balls through

the entire thing of Star Wars was Palpatine I

mean granted he was practically in all of them

except for one He left him so that Palpatine

could twirl them in his hand Um, you know, Velpatine

is the puppet master. So, I mean, in that sense,

whereas Trek, they're, they're much more individual.

So I'm going to have to go Trek. I think I'm

actually going to have to agree with Steve. And

I think it comes down to capability. Looking

cool is one thing. Getting the job done is quite

another. Which villain got the job done? The

Borg Queen. assimilated an entire quadrant yeah

but she failed in the end well she failed herself

that was one yeah that was one head figure that

the species neither neither franchises villains

are successful No, you could argue and I it's

almost a personal preference bias. Yeah, right,

right Well, you could argue as far as like which

Trek village villains really got it done You

could argue and I've seen the film enough times.

I should remember the damn dude's name, but from

the Abrams verse You know destroying yeah, I

want to say Nemo Nero destroying Vulcan with

red matter. I mean that really got the job done

that got Spock to pay attention to shit Yeah,

he wiped out pretty much. There's only four thousand

Vulcans left in the universe. Yeah Palpatine

did annihilate entire races as well. So that's

true. And he essentially disbanded the entire

governmental body, but some got away there were

still Jedi running around. And some Vulcans got

away as well. That's just the Jedi, the Senate.

Right, yeah. Heck yeah, that's getting the job

done. They gotta take it out by votes. Alright,

so with that I think we're gonna head to a break

where you're gonna hear some Star Trek and Star

Wars sound effects and musical clips and whatever

else and maybe some ads thrown in. We'll be back

after this. Hey, Sheldon. Oh, good. You picked

me. You picked me. No. I just got a text from

Stewart. Brent Spiner's at the party. Brent Spiner?

Yes. I don't care. Really? Brent Spiner, Mr.

Data himself, you love him! I did, but I think

I've kind of outgrown Star Trek. Stock characters,

ludicrous plots, beam me up, what a load of hooey.

I'm going. Live long and prosper, Sheldon. Yeah,

even that. You look like a dork. Hey Chuck, what's

up, right? You know how we talk about doing a

podcast? Glad some ideas run past you. Yeah,

what do you got? I thought we should base it

on comics. Well, there's thousands of podcasts

about comics. You kind of want to narrow it down

a bit. Well, what about Star Wars? Still, there's

a ton of those out there. What else you got?

We can always do G .I. Joe comics. There's still

a ton of those out there. What about the 80s

franchises? There's already a few of those as

well. Well, let's forget about comics. Let's

focus on toys and action figures. Dude, then

we're back to thousands of podcasts. Well, is

anyone covering all those things I mentioned

in one podcast? No one would be crazy enough

to do that. Then that's what we'll do. Be serious.

Yep. Come and listen to Star Joe's podcast. You

can find us at starjoes .com or find us on iTunes.

We cover comics, TV shows, and movies based on

Star Wars, G .I. Joe, and all your 80's favorite

franchises. And don't forget about the toys.

How can we forget about the toys? We also do

tour reviews to help you decide what to add to

your collection. So come listen to Star Joe's,

where we hold nothing back, provide quality entertainment,

and remember, the force will be with you. Because

knowing us is half the battle. The Napa guy knows

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Radio. Don't forget to enter promo code KEYCASTRADIO

when you register. Alright the bathroom break

is over and it's time for the second half and

we are starting it off with category number 11

which is the overarching universes of Star Trek

and Star Wars. We're talking the final frontier

versus the galaxy far, far away. Which universe

was better? We're considering animals, we're

considering environments, planets, terrain, species,

everything and anything that went into the creation

of the actual universe that these two franchises

take place in. Who wants to start us off here

in the second half? And on the eighth day, Lucas

rested. as he decided back and forth flip -flopping

who shot first oh god do we really have to get

in that debate and then he handed off the most

cool aspects to people who weren't himself just

saying just saying um we're not talking about

hold on i want to put a disclaimer here because

we're not talking about anything to do with You

know, writing or anything else. We're talking

about the initial... The actual universe, the

planets. Right. The universe that was created

that these two things take place in. Right. For

me, it goes to Star Wars. Because of all of the

different aliens that I've seen within the six

films, within the video games, within all that

stuff, within whatever animated series was running

at the time, even that crappy Genndy Tartakovsky

thing in 2005. I just enjoy a galaxy far far

away more than the final frontier I Think I love

them both. I think they're both epically, you

know incredibly created universes They both have

so much to offer There's just I don't know this

one is is hard some respects it kind of if you're

talking about the different planets and really

Delving into the the environments of the planets

and and the the plant life of the plants and

the species and the animal life of the planets

I mean Star Wars obviously does seems to do a

better job with that because You know, we really

get into what each planet consists of But if

you're talking about I don't like the Star Trek

it seems like such a I'm torn here a little bit.

Go ahead. It's a more realistic universe. Star

Trek is more, there's gas giants, there's astronomical

phenomenon, stuff makes sense. Star Wars is more

fantastic. There's worlds where there's entire

cities made out of crystals. There's cities that

sing. There's... You know, it's a much more interesting

and complex world where anything can literally

happen. I got to say a galaxy far, far away in

terms of an interesting place to see exist and

live in is better than the final frontier. As

much as I enjoy, you know, looking at quarks,

pulsars, neutron stars, etc. It's honestly, I'd

rather have a water world with a fantastic underwater

civilization than I would rather than looking

at a magnetar. If you were offered a guided tour

of one universe or the other, it would be more

appealing to go see all the different stuff that

the Star Wars universe consists of. Absolutely,

because there's nothing like that in Star Trek.

I mean, what's the coolest planet in Star Trek

that everybody knows, Risa? Because it's the

Pleasure Planet. And as cool as that is, yeah,

and the holodeck, and that's not even real. Yeah,

that's in technology. In terms of things to see

and experience, it's gotta be Star Wars. I got

a question for you guys before Steve and Michael

give their thoughts. This just occurred to me.

In the Star Trek universe, there is a planet

Earth. Yeah, that's where the Federation is.

It is the planet Earth. Right. Exactly. In Star

Wars, where the fuck do humans come from? As

far as I know, there's no planet Earth in Star

Wars, in the universe. Because it is a galaxy

far far away Well, well, they're not I I guess

they could have just come from any number of

different worlds where they happen to share a

common ancestry because they can travel so much

faster That's true. But I mean if we're gonna

really debate this as far as where did humans

come from in Star Wars? If there is no planet,

you know going by real life and you know today's

standards of we we are earthlings we live on

planet earth we eventually want to go out into

the universe to see if there's other life out

there in star wars all these other universes

and planets that have life on them that's okay

that's fine but where did the fucking humans

come from well i think in star wars like and

i i think yeah exactly human life i think in

star wars they they get around that by saying

that There's so much history here. There's 5

,000 years of recorded history prior to that,

you know Maybe there was an earth -like planet

where humans evolved and then they began to spread

out in a different place because I mean There's

several planets of humans. You've got Corellia

I don't want to say Tatooine, but you know, there's

it. Yeah, it's not just like it's not sure Well,

of course Alderaan okay, we'll give it that yeah

like Alderaan exactly I mean there's there's

planets that are full of aliens, but there's

also a whole lot of planets that are just full

of humans and They didn't all evolve Simultaneously

on all these different planets that came from

somewhere, but that's way back in prehistory

Whereas in the Star Trek universe Their prehistory

is our prehistory. We know where humans came

from and it's something Lucas never thought of

Well, to me, this is the genius of, and we'll

get into Lucas a little bit later, but this is

what Lucas did the best. This is his bread and

butter, is creating the universe, creating, like

I said, a planet with the plant life and the

animals and everything that goes with it. I mean,

this is his element here, the creative part of

the entire universe, and that is what, this is

what made him famous, is the universe creation

of a galaxy far, far away. He did everything

he could to fuck that up later, but the creation

of the universe was what he should be remembered

for. Because he created a universe that has spawned

everything else. Without this epic universe with

all these planets, with all these alien races

and animals and plants and everything, Star Wars

does not become as successful as it is. I don't

think. And I think with Star Wars, we're looking

at a galaxy far, far away. I mean, this is...

the whole galaxy, all the planets, not just the

people that live on them, but planets, even if

it's just forest planets, ice planet, water planet,

you know, it's Earth -like planet, you know,

for Alderaan that eventually gets blown up, desert

planet, but the planets are there, they're named,

their denizens are named, you know, it's like

duros, you know, we know that the duros live

there. specific animals are only capable of living

on that planet etc etc Yeah, you know I mean

looks like we know now HUD is there and the huts

live there. This has all been All all of this

has been laid down in canon. Whereas if you look

at the Star Trek universe You know, it's laid

out in the quadrants two of which they've never

been to with the exception of the well the wormhole

that goes into founder space and then whatever

wormhole that the Voyager ended up in to end

up in the Delta Quadrant. I mean that's it's

it's it's crazy how much space isn't even charted

there. Which to a point is cool the mystery of

it and and the obviously the exploration part

of it but yeah it's a lot less defined. Steve,

you've been very silent about this. What are

your thoughts on the two universes? As much as

I hate to go with it, I'm gonna have to say Star

Wars, only for the fact that he did, to his credit,

he did create an entire universe from scratch,

whereas Roddenberry, granted it's from a different

time, but Roddenberry went for the approach of

Just hacking it on to our actual civilization

Yeah, and not that there was anything wrong with

that, but if you yeah, like I understand what

you're saying So is this a unanimous Star Wars

vote I Don't think I didn't think I heard anybody

leaning towards Star Trek so we can move on to

the next thing which I'm sure won't be fun here

Our next category is overall writing before we

get into this I do have to say and I want to

make this very clear Six movies of writing versus

multiple television series over decades. No,

no, hold on. We're not we're talking about writing

overall. We're this isn't defined by just the

movies there's dozens and dozens and dozens of

Expanded Universe Star Wars novels Yeah, yeah

overall writing in the entire franchise like

if you know It almost could be looked at like

this if you if you had collected all the novel

all the Star Wars novels in existence done Including

I have I have almost all of them as well But

but all the Star Wars novels including, you know,

like the movie novelizations But all the Star

Wars novels or if you have all the Star Trek

novels, you know If you were to sit down and

and somehow read all of those which Franchise

is gonna have the better writing Is there even

a way to determine that? I mean, if you're gonna

go on movies or TV show, this should be Star

Trek in a landslide. Yeah. Yeah. See, for me,

I can only go on the movies and the TV shows

because I maybe have read one book of each series.

The writing in Star Trek The Next Generation

is perhaps some of the best writing on any television

show in the history of television. If you like

people sitting around a table debating. DS9 in

terms of... writing. I've seen a lot of action

there. Yeah. No, I'm talking about I'm talking

about the concepts that are that are that are

tackled in Next Generation, all the different

issues that we are dealing as a human race, but

put in a completely different, you know, masked

up and put in a different universe. But I just

think the writing in Next Generation is spectacular.

Yeah, I would agree. And that's a show that's

going to hold up for a very long time. Not the

special effects, but that's why we have the blu

-rays coming out in a few months that are enhanced,

which we hopefully will be giving away a couple

box sets, by the way. But yeah, I mean, the writing

in Star Trek, the television, basically 90. OK,

I'm going to say about 80 % of it's really great

across everything. There are episodes from every

series that should be seen. Some of the expanded

universe for Star Trek is frankly fucking atrocious.

The fan fiction is even worse. I can't count

the many times. I'm Captain Kirk's daughter!

Yeah, we are not counting fan fiction in this

at all. But you know what I'm saying, it's terrible.

In Star Wars, the movies, I mean, it's a great

story. As Michael has said, talking about the

hero's journey, you really can't go wrong with

that. I mean... It was the dialogue that fucked

him up. Yeah, I mean, that's right. I greatest

quote of all time is you can write this shit

George, but you can't say it Yeah, like I love

you like the way a lover does or some stupid

shit or you know There's just some terrible fucking

dialogue in these movies or you know But I guess

that's more of an acting thing, but someone had

to write that shit first. That was not adlibbed.

You know, there are just so many problems with

some of the Star Wars stuff. I mean, looking

at some of the expanded universe stuff, one of

the books I talked about earlier in this episode,

and Jesus Christ, we've been yapping for a long

time, was a book called Truce at Bakura. Fucking

terrible. That book was a chore. There's another

book called Children of the Jedi. I was thankful

when that last page came up. Oh, yeah, there's

I think Star Wars attracts the worst kind of

worst kind of fanboy writers to who managed to

get a contract with like Del Rey or Random House

going, I get a bad guy from the Star Wars. And

then they just start writing and it turns into

this retarded, twisted mess of clusterfuck. And

Luke, in theory, should be like 70 years old

now, haunts me, push it up daisies. And, you

know, if you look at the way the the universes

have evolved, Star Trek, it's a little less stupid.

I'm not happy with the way the current Star Wars

universe is going ever since the war with the

Yuuzhan Vong and just it got bad. I think you

don't like the Yuuzhan Vong war. Okay, they killed

Chewbacca, they turned the haunt kids against

them, they killed Mara Jade, it just got fucking

retarded after. I'm like, okay, it's what stupid

thing can we do next? You know what Star Wars

became? It became The Simpsons. And what I mean

by that is, what bad situation can we put them

into this time? Or what pop culture reference

can we make this week? Yeah, it's... I'm more

drawn to read the Star Wars novels than I am

the Star Trek novels. I'll agree with you there.

But when it comes to every other aspect of it,

I lean towards the Star Trek writing. Like movies,

television shows, anything else, like any other

thing besides the novels, I lean towards Star

Trek. And especially the TV shows. I mean, good

God, that's some good writing. I'm sorry. Steve,

any thoughts? I have to say Star Trek writing

hands down. It just keeps my interest better.

And I, granted, there's probably, you know, a

good 20 % of it that's just complete and utter

garbage. I think Star Wars has the better comic

line. Oh, yeah. Although Star Trek Doctor Who

just came out today. Well, Star Trek has been

passed around between, you know, DC and, you

know, IDW Paramount, you know, all different.

You brought up a good point though. Star Wars

does have a good comic life. So if you're going

by comic line, Star Wars would win that hands

down, but if you're going by overall writing,

I would say Trek. I agree with you. Either one

of Blanchard or Wilson. I would say overall Star

Trek has the better writing. And then there was

one. I'm gonna have to go with, uh, Star Trek

on this one. I think that, uh... Star Trek, even

when it's boring issues, you know, like Voyager

top... Voyager had a lot of really boring episodes,

but they were really trying to, you know, rip

the topic from today's headlines and make it

interesting and relevant to their universe and

failed many times, but... But as many times as

they fail they hit it out of the park, you know,

just spectacularly and There's there's a lot

of good writing there and I think like Dodd said

there's a lot of bad writing on Star Wars Yeah

in Star Wars. I Think that's pretty unanimous

then I think another one that's gonna be interesting

to see your guys thoughts here our 13th category

Which franchise has had the better overall acting?

Oh God now first of all It's it's just boggles

my mind at some of the the great actors that

have appeared in Star Wars But this is this is

the way I think about it All the good lines that

you ever hear in Star Wars those were the ones

that were improved The only good lines are ones

that were not in the script I guarantee it Harrison

Ford improving or that's somebody else improving

and and coming up with those lines because they

had the worst dialogue The worst, I don't know

what you want to call it, screenwriters or whoever

actually did the dialogue writing for that. It's

not a good reflection of the actual actors. Yeah.

And again, I think specifically the acting in

the Star Wars films is, at least in the original

trilogy, it's a product of its time. I mean,

let's face it, it just is. Yes, there are classic

lines and yes, they were well delivered, but

the overall dialogue of those movies just In

a new hope did you catch when Luke Skywalker

called Princess Leia Carrie? Yep. Yeah, he calls

her Carrie. I mean it was I Don't want to say

an emotional scene would have more like an outburst

like Carrie, you know But he was just so happy.

He was like a big golden retriever. He was just

so happy to see her. They just blew up the dust.

Of course, he's happy. But I had a big boner

at that time. Just saying. You can't. Yeah, you

can't say much about the acting in in Star Wars.

I mean, Harrison Ford, fantastic actor. Yeah.

Alex Guinness is a great actor. You answer Alex

Guinness. He was a fantastic actor. Liam Neeson

is a good actor. Who? Liam Neeson. Well, yeah.

Ewan McGregor. I like him as an actor. I think

in 1978 they were pulling unknowns because they

didn't have the budget. The acting wasn't all

that fantastic. They got lucky with Harrison

Ford. They pulled Oh They pulled Alec Guinness

in there because you know, he was retiring he

yeah, he really didn't have all the Opportunities

anymore If they didn't want him he's too old.

Yeah, but I mean that was their big star by the

time you get into the prequels They had a lot

of money to throw around they can pull in people

who? have acted Before and plus you had to with

the prequels you had to find Younger people's

that were similar to the original like Ewan McGregor

is a perfect young version of Obi -Wan Compared

to Alec Guinness's version. Well, he's got the

yeah, he's got the the accent down Yeah, and

what I loved about the Star Wars acting was in

the original trilogy the stories that Obi -Wan

told of the Clone Wars and what you know because

that whole episode four five and six we wanted

to know well we may not have wanted to know in

the force in in terms of what happened in Phantom

Menace but we wanted to know what happened with

the Clone War we wanted to know why R2 couldn't

fly anymore you know we wanted to know all that

stuff right yeah I think the thing is with Star

Wars it tooks it almost made really, really great

actors not seem like really great actors at some

point. You know, Star Trek, you got, you know,

Leonard Nimoy and Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner

and, you know, LeVar Burton, and please don't

anyone say William Shatner. But as much as...

You should never say that. Captain Kirk is awesome,

but let's no one claim that William Shatner is

a good actor. But Star Trek just had loads of

good actors. And the thing is, Star Trek made

average actors seem better, where Star Wars took

good actors and made them seem worse, in my opinion.

Well, you can blame Lucas for the writing on

that. Star Wars actors went on to, Mark Hamill

specifically, he went on to do the Joker, he

went on to... be in several different television

series and i will do anything for twenty years

and then he ran into voice acting on accident

he was really good at it don't get me wrong but

he's that's exactly a well he was doing he didn't

take twenty years to get into voice acting The

Star Trek acting, even though we're not doing

this, I think we would have to break it down

by franchise or by television series because

of the fact that there are so many of them. Not

really, I mean, they're each a product of their

time. The acting gets better over their seven

year run. If you look at the acting, even season

one of Next Generation is kind of iffy. You know,

and as you get into season two, season three,

and so on, they find their stride and they realize

what the relationships between the characters

are supposed to be and the acting gets a lot

better. And by seven, you almost, I should say

season seven, you almost don't want to see it

end. Well, I mean, the interactions - Keep going.

Seven more years, because they're so good. Between

Patrick Stewart and like Brent Spiner or between

Patrick Stewart and John Delancey. I mean they

just had incredible scenes Yeah, just incredible

scenes, you know Michael Dorn had a lot of great

acting in there all costumed up and whatnot There's

just there's a lot of good acting in Star Trek

You know besides William Shatner. I can't think

of anybody that just stands out as like wow that

person couldn't act And again, if you look at

individual actors, because Star Trek was a TV

series, you would have people who were real act...

I don't want to say real actors. Let's say people

who are movie actors, right? Who slum it, I guess

you could say, on the TV show. It's kind of like

The Simpsons, where it's a really popular show

and Aerosmith comes on. you know, or somebody

comes in and does a guest voice for a while,

you could end up with a, you know, Christie Alley

coming in and doing a movie as a Klingon. Yeah.

Well, that was actually pre -Cheers. I don't

know about that, but you get the point. You can

have a movie actor or an actor from a different

TV series or someone else come in and say, you

know what, I'd like to do this Star Trek thing

because it's really cool. And they give them

a guest spot. Yeah, if you had to say which franchise

has had the bigger named voice actor or bigger

name actors Star Wars has had the bigger names

But which one had better acting To me that seems

like it leans towards Star Trek. I'm not saying

that's 100 % my vote, but I'm pretty sure I'm

voting that way. We haven't heard much from from

Birdman here on this one. I would have to say

it has to be Star Trek. I mean, looking at the

quality, I mean, it took a little while for some

of the cast to get comfortable in their roles.

But I'd say the more modern Trek, I mean, excluding

the one from the 60s, Star Trek TNG had great

performances almost all around. Even Voyager,

which is a lot of people's not favorite Star

Trek, but it's actually mine. Robert Bacardo

gave some great performances. I'm trying to remember

the woman who plays Janeway. Kate Mulgrew threw

in some really emotional performances in there.

And even the old one between like Bones and Spock

had some great performances together. I don't

want to say all of the 60s was bad acting. They

were really kind of campy back then, but I think

all TV shows were a little campy back then. Yeah,

I mean, I just I think Star Trek has more heart

to it, and because the dialogue and everything

leans to a little bit more serious, you're going

to get greater performances out of actors. And

even looking at the modern Star Trek movies,

I mean, you can honestly say it was a great moment

for William Shatner when he gave Spock's eulogy.

And just, you know, it was a really powerful

moment in Star Trek, too. Yeah, so I would argue

Star Trek has a superior acting because they

believe in what they're saying And I think what

the future this would be the last thing I sound

I think with the future of the Trek films with

Abrams in charge Look what he did with Star Trek

Oh 9 I mean he essentially brought us back to

the 60s with the relationship between Kirk and

Bones in that film. I mean, as soon as I heard

numtong, I was just laughing my ass off because

of all the injections that Bones kept giving

him. And just that comedy bit of writing and

acting between the actors was just amazing. Well,

let's do a round of official votes then. Dodd

has said Star Trek. I will say Star Trek, Blanchard.

I say Star Trek. Star Trek. I'm going to go with

Star Trek, sure. All right. So that one's pretty

unanimous. Let's move on to number 14 then, which

is all of the other stuff that goes into it.

All the little things, the men behind the scenes

there, the uniforms, the clothing, the makeup,

the special effects. There's probably some other

things that you can throw in there, but you know,

all those Oscars that you never hear about because

they're given away the day before, the week before,

those types of things, those categories. Which

franchise has done a better job at all the detail

work, special effects, costume, makeup, all that

stuff? I want to start this off because you also

have to include props in here as well. This is

going to be a landslide. Star Wars hands down.

Star Wars wins this because it has won awards

for costume design, awards for visual effects.

It sets the bar technically every time they do

something. There's nothing that Lucas Studios

or ILM or whatever cannot do. Yeah, pretty much.

It made the galaxy far, far away come to life.

And you look at the costume design, especially

from Star Wars Episode 1. and episode three.

I've got books on my shelf where they have costume

swatches so you can feel what things felt like,

the texture of certain clothing, and it's phenomenal.

You also look at the props, how they've repurposed

guns. I mean, the Stormtrooper blaster is actually

based upon a World War II gun. They've repurposed

it to make it look fantastic. You look at the

detail that goes into the lightsabers. Even the

stun sabers are wonderfully built. There was

a company a couple years ago master replicas

before they got the license transfer from Corgi,

then went to Hasbro for the lightsaber designs.

I've held some of these expensive lightsabers.

I own Obi -Wan, Obi -Wan Saber from episode three.

Look at the detail that goes into that. One of

the people that we work with on Future Imperfect,

Scott Nakata from Xscape Studios, does a lot

of Star Trek props, and they're cool, but...

They're meant to, they're, they're utilitarian,

as we've designed before. Star Trek is not about

flash. It's about functionality. Restart wars.

Each piece is a work of art. There are Wookie

guns that only appear for like a fraction of

a second on screen in episode three. They are

like African tribal that detailed, like the textures

on the side of them. They're beautiful. Hands

down has to be Star Wars. I don't think Star

Trek can hold a candle to this. And not only

did Star Wars, you know, reinvent and revolutionize

all of, you know, effects everywhere, especially

the world of special effects, but in this one,

take the 70s Star Wars and compare it to this.

I know 60s is earlier than 70s, but they're both

a long time ago here. The 60s Star Trek or even

the 90s Star Trek and compare it to the special

effects that we saw in the 70s Star Wars. I mean,

the special effects in the 70s Star Wars were

beyond their time. Yeah, they were This I mean,

I'm not and I'm not trying to take away I think

there's some absolute excellent makeup as far

as the aliens go in Star Trek and the different

races and Excellent work with the Klingons and

etc. Etc. Etc. I'm not trying to discount that

But when you throw both special effects and clothing

into it and I and props and stuff like that Like

Mike was saying I agree. It's a landslide for

Star Wars on this one It is simply for one reason

and one reason only Star Wars does not have red

shirts that die immediately Stormtroopers. Yeah,

they do And and not to mention that Star Wars

had the genius of Jim Henson True and Muppets

with the teddy bears. Yes Steve thoughts Well,

I do like the the Star Trek uniforms I will have

to And in some of the different costumes They're

pretty much all cookie -cutter for damn near

everyone in their faction. Whereas Star Wars

almost everything's different except for the

troopers. So Yeah, I'll have to give it to track

Aaron wars. Yes, it's getting confusing with

all these stars. Yes and all these mics That's

true our 15th category were three -fourths of

the way there then Did I vote yeah, you know

what I'm gonna vote Three letters ILM. Yeah,

exactly. They're the only people that can actually

put 3d effects on post -production and make it

actually believable The 15th category here is

music the music of the different franchises now.

I know this in companies a lot a company encompasses

a lot. I know there was music in the, in all

the different movies. I know there's been music

in, you know, video games. I know there's been

just music, straight up music. I mean, Star Wars

actually had a fricking, uh, I don't know what

the technical name of that thing that they did.

What was it last year or this year where like

it was the whole opera musical production. Yeah.

So all the music performances, whether it be

games, movies, TV shows, et cetera, which franchises

had the better music? Who wants to start on that

one? Themes, music, whatever. I think this one

is one I should start again. Me and Steve did

an episode of this for Future Imperfect a couple

of weeks ago. And honestly, this is going to

be another landslide. This is going to go towards

Star Wars because you think of all the Star Trek

franchises, there have been... Steve, how many

Star Trek franchises? As far as what? Like different...

TV shows? Yeah, TV shows. How many? There's been

five. And how many movies? There's been 11 and

you look at Star Wars six feature films out of

all the Star Trek TV series People only ever

remember the themes. Yeah, maybe the odd piece

of episode music I mean, I know there's one from

Star Trek Voyager called someone to watch over

me where the doctor learns about his holographic

daughter gonna die There's nothing he can do

the Captain Picard's flute music from I can't

remember the name of the episode Maybe the best

of both worlds theme But how many people know

the Star Wars name? Two words, John Williams.

Exactly. John Williams. You can't talk John Williams.

No, you really can't because he's done music

for so many things like E .T., Jaws, Superman,

and there's no one who can compare to him. Jurassic

Park. Yeah, there's so many memorable pieces

of music from a classic composer like this and

I'm not saying that to derail the music that

was done by John or done by Jerry Goldsmith and

the other composers like Michael Giovanni I'm

pretty sure I'm messing up his name. The guy

did Star Trek. Oh nine. Um There's just so many

different things in Star Wars whether it be the

Imperial March or whether it be the you know,

it's not just Yeah, there's so many things that

people know. Like, when you hear the first couple

bars of the Twin Sunsets from Tatooine, you know

exactly what that's from. People know the Death

Star Trench Run music because it evokes a pop

culture memory. You just know it was Star Trek.

Oh, that's Star Trek. That's cool. But when you

hear the Imperial March, part of you kind of

snaps to attention. You kind of almost want to

walk in sync with whoever's standing beside you.

Exactly, and that's something that sonically

and musically that John Williams did so much

better than any of the Star Trek composers not

to knock their work or belittle it Williams created

a soundscape that is so much more dynamic than

Star Trek could ever hope to do and I really

I see that the greatest amount of respect towards

the Star Trek composers. And that's another thing,

too, to look at the sound design in both franchises.

Ben Burtt and his team at ILM and all that, all

the guys who designed the sounds for Star Wars.

You know a lightsaber. You know a blaster. You

know a TIE Fighter line. Hell, watch any number

of cartoon shows. You can hear the TIE Fighter

screen. It's amazing how often that pops up.

I was watching Men in Black 3 tonight. There's

a TIE fighter mixed in there. So the sound design

from Star Wars is also superior. And I think

that comes from a love of the source material

and just a greater understanding of how sound

works with picture and causing emotions. It's

just a better composed soundscape than Star Trek.

Like I said, everybody knows what a photon torpedo

sounds like, the transporter sound, that maybe

the door chime. There's just more identifiable

sounds from Star Trek and lightsaber sound will

never be forgotten everyone picked up a cardboard

tube and How many people have picked up a Braun

Mixmaster, you know from your kitchen and made

a phaser sound I'll touch that number is smaller

than you might think so hands down start Star

Wars I mean Star Wars had an actual thing Star

Wars in concert. I mean they actually have a

series of contests with thoughts on the music

here? For every point that you guys have pointed

out I have to agree that I honestly while I did

like the track music background music I cannot

for the life of me remember how any of the tunes

go other than theme songs whereas in Star Wars

practically every one of them I can remember

so I'm gonna have to give it to Star Wars. So

that is a vote for Star Wars for Dodd for Steve

and myself. Same here Star Wars music hands down

and mr. Wilson. I'm gonna go with Star Wars 2

I was just thinking don't don't all the star

well with exceptional like enterprise that I

can think of I want to say all of the Star Trek

Theme songs are all the same, aren't they? It's

just that seraphim Yeah, the next generation

doesn't have that. I can't remember what the

next generation theme song sounds like. I can't

do it very well, but... You would know what to

hear! Oh, yeah! Okay, well that's... That's like

the non -seraphim version of the original series.

Right, that's a better version. Our 16th category...

is games. We're talking about computer games,

we're talking about video games, we're talking

about games in general. Which franchise has produced

or has spun off the better? game franchise if

you want to sell dot probably has the most experience

of all of us with the games but i'm gonna go

first really quick because i remember three things

about star wars games specifically i remember

playing super empire and super return of the

jedi on the s a s and i remember playing the

uh... the arcade game that was in movie theaters

uh... of the the original trilogy where you can

choose between each chapter i forget what that

what i said I forget. All is I know it was a

giant thing that you got to sit in and the damn

thing had surround sound and the chair fucking

vibrated every time you threw a lightsaber. I

could have bought this for 50 bucks and I should

have. But it's a huge machine so I can't get

it inside my house. Yeah it is a very fucking

huge machine and just playing those games for

me for Star Wars was very very awesome. I don't

think I've ever played any Trek games so you

guys can take it from here. I'll let Dodd go

first. I mean he's the biggest gamer of us. Alright,

so let's break down the history of Star Trek

games. They almost all suck There are no good

Star Trek game almost there Elite Forces, great

idea based upon the Quake engine. More or less,

it was okay. I mean, Elite Forces 2 is maybe

a little bit better. There have been games like

Birth of the Federation, which is really good,

but really complex. It plays a lot like, I think

it's Masters of Orion. It's like a civilization

building game. That's okay. There have been some

good Star Trek games, but there are very few

and far between. We look at the sheer number

of Star Wars games. Okay, there have been some

shitty ones, and I'm not counting the ones on

the Atari or the Vectrex or anything like that.

I'm talking about more modern. Super Star Wars,

almost all the ones by LucasArts are fantastic.

Let me see. One developer has made the best Star

Wars games of this console generation or the

last couple console generations That's Canadian

developer BioWare Star Wars Knights of the Old

Republic 1 & 2, Star Wars The Old Republic Star

Wars Jedi Knights, Star Wars Dark Forces Star

Wars Jedi Outcasts The Force Unleashed 1 & 2

Battlefront, which evidently tonight right now,

I don't know when this episode is airing. So

as of right now, we're going into E3. There's

a new Star Wars game called 1313, which people

are thinking, which is likely Battlefront 3 being

resurrected. This will air before E3. Yeah, which

is on Monday, by the way. But I'm just saying

Star Wars has a dominating presence in the game

world. It's built for video games. It really

is. And there are no super memorable Star Trek

games that can compare to Knights of the Old

Republic. I mean, there is Star Trek Online,

which is now free to play. But it sucks balls.

It's very boring and it sucks because if you

want to level up quickly, it's like you have

to go into fleet actions with people. I like

online gaming, I like playing with people the

odd time, but I'm not an MMO player, I'm not

World of Warcraft, I'm not like Diablo where

you can play by yourself, but your friends can

randomly jump into your game if you don't want

them to. You know, there's just so many things

Star Trek has mismanaged with their gaming license,

and there have been, like I said, some okay titles,

like Star Trek Legacy was okay, but better when

you mod the shit out of it. It begs to ask the

question though, I mean, Star Trek having one

of the largest fandoms in the world and just

being such an epic franchise, why can nobody

get it right with a Star Trek game? I don't think

they found the right developer to make it right.

I mean, could BioWare do it? Maybe, because Star

Trek is all about diplomacy. Look at the conversation

system in Mass Effect. That would be awesome

for a Star Trek game. Unfortunately, Star Trek

games do not lend themselves towards epic ground

battles Star Trek is mostly space battles and

there have there was a game called Star Trek

shattered dimensions for the ps1 You actually

took control of a Federation fighter and it was

boring as fucking piss I don't know how they

managed to fuck these things up so bad. I mean,

honestly I it's the problem is you have to find

the right developer now There is a new Star Trek

game in development I think it's Namco Bandai.

I think they're showing it next week, but I'm

not 100 % sure of this. And it may be okay. It's

going to be based upon the new Star Trek franchise,

which ties into number two. I'm cautiously optimistic,

but ultimately Star Wars is going to win this

category because of the old Republic games and

all the great LucasArts ones that came before

it. Yeah, I Try name one good Star Trek game

outside of Star Trek. Maybe the fifth and or

the 25th anniversary or only forces you can't

just mind -boggling that one of the biggest sci

-fi Franchises one of the two biggest sci -fi

franchises of all time can't create a good video

game Like that's mind -boggling and it's not

like doesn't have money. Well, it's because they

don't license it to the correct company. Yeah

I realize the reasons, it just makes no sense

that, you know, sci -fi and video games go hand

in hand, it seems like, and it should not be

this way. But I agree with everything that Mike

said. There is a lot of different, even the not,

I mean, you have your top of the line Star Wars

games, like you're talking about with Knights

of the Old Republic or the Old Republic, et cetera.

But even the second and third tier of Star Wars

games aren't terrible. You know what I mean?

Even some of the old, like, the Rogue Squadron

game is at least fun to play. I mean, it's not

a great game, but it's still better than all

the Star Trek games. Yeah. I know that this would

never happen, but imagine if Paramount went to

LucasArts and said, hey, make us a good game

for Star Trek. That would be entertaining. Is

anybody voting for Star Trek? No. I would not

vote for Star Trek. I would like to say, though,

that Star Wars, again, has a better variety of

games, whereas, you know, if you look at Star

Trek, it's mostly capital ship combat, and occasionally

you might get a first -person shooter. Whereas

with video, I'm sorry, with Star Wars video games,

you've got first -person shooters. They're a

lot of fun. Flight simulators, like if you can

remember back to X -Wing. And TIE Fighter, awesome

games. Racing. Awesome flight simulators. There

are racing games if you consider podracing a

game. I don't. Super bombad racing, man. PS1.

No, thanks. Legends of Terekasi. So you've got

like Mortal Kombat style fighting, which that

game really blew. But, you know, they have it.

It's a fighting game. They have role playing

games, real time strategy games. And am I the

only one who didn't like Battlegrounds? I like

Battlefront. I don't know. It was okay. I just

thought it's better once you mod the crap out

of it Well, yeah, and then now they've got their

massively multiplayer online role -playing game

and I haven't played that yet I was too involved

in Skyrim to start it And soon I'll be too involved

in Diablo to start it It's subscriber base dropped

by 400 ,000 players recently But then again,

that's a bit that's a drop in the bucket when

you compare how large its install base was right

from the get -go I don't know if it's gonna be

the Wow killer I don't think so because that

hasn't like a ten -year headley ten -year head

start for one and You know just Well, I heard

they lost like three million people. No Wow lost

three million people the two to the old republic

but now they've come back but they're all going

to come back when when world of warcraft releases

their next update yeah it wouldn't surprise me

in the least i mean world of warcraft knows how

to pander to them and the cool thing about the

old republic is if you don't want to play with

other people you don't necessarily have to hell

the first 20 levels are basically the tutorial

and you know you can play the game and you get

a storyline for each character you make they're

each unique That's something wow doesn't do.

So I think Star Wars just has better games. There's

no two ways about it. And I think Star Trek online

was a big chance to break that mold, but they

dropped the ball. They didn't have the content

was not that interesting when you got it. And

the episodes were boring as piss. Honestly, The

Matrix online was a much better game. Say what

you will. So it's unanimous for Star Wars when

it comes to the gaming world We're moving on

now to a category all too often when people compare

these two franchises They only compare this next

category and it was very important that we compared

a lot more in this episode than just the movies,

but it does have to come into play at some point.

So category 17 is the movies. There's been 11

Star Trek movies. There's obviously been six

Star Wars movies, not counting the Clone Wars

movie, the animated one. So comparing the two

movie franchises in that subcategory. Are we

only counting the good ones? We're counting 11

Star Trek movies and we're counting six Star

Wars movies. Well, I'm looking at the list of

Star Trek movies and I can sum it up quite easily.

Crap. Good. Crap. Good. Crap. Awesome. Crap.

Fucking wicked. Boring as fuck. Crap. Awesome.

So we've got roughly five good ones versus six

bad ones. What? Oh, you're talking about Star

Trek. OK, six bad ones and five good ones. OK,

yeah. All right, yeah. So no, I mean versus like

the Star Wars episodes I even Okay. Well, all

right. I didn't like Phantom Menace at all. The

rest of them. I really enjoyed you all the fates

really come on. That was cool Steve I want you

to get in on this earlier earlier on in this

discussion because I know you are very well versed

in all the Star Trek movies What are your thoughts?

I just on the Star Trek franchise of movies the

the Star Trek films typically run at least until

well this newest incarnation usually every other

film was a good film like first one is so so

mostly crap that was just trying to make a new

show I can't stand watching that movie the second

film that was great third film is so so it was

watchable it was watchable but It's still nothing

I could sit there and watch continuously. It

did have its moments, but it ultimately is forgettable.

The fourth movie, that was a good film. Five,

complete crap. You know, Starship and God, that's

just all I got to say there. Six, epically awesome.

Seven, nice passing of the torch, but still ultimately

forgettable. But the first Starship crash. It

was also basically a long episode of the show.

Yeah, basically. First contact, great. Insurrection?

Eh, so -so, but still crap. It was just a long

episode of the show. It was a shitty episode

of the show, though. Yeah, it was, and they even

used the themes from the show in the movie. But

Nemesis? Complete crap. That blew every other

film thing right out of the water. And then,

of course, it reverses with the Abrams verse

in 2009, where the odd numbers for once, are

actually the good films. So hopefully he can

keep the... It breaks the mold completely. This

could be a situation where, you know, ten years

from now, it's a different discussion. Yeah.

Oh yeah. And say what you will. I mean, everybody

loves to dog on the prequels. I stick by what

Mr. Wilson said, that episode two and episode

three are not as bad as people try to make them

out to be. I totally agree. I love episode three.

It's actually my favorite. Yeah, episode three

is epic. The last 45 minutes is some of the best

in the whole franchise. But, you know, I suppose

a lot of people don't like Phantom Menace, but

you can't really say that any one of these movies

is complete crap in Star Wars. There are boring

parts, but there are no horrible, I'm not watching

this movie. I mean, Attack of the Clones, a lot

of people give that movie shit, but I really

enjoy that one because it sets up a lot of the

politics in it. It's a great setup film. It's

not necessarily a great action film, but it introduces

a lot of elements. Now, my main complaint with

Star Wars Episode I, there was no reason to kill

Darth Maul. He should have been what Count Dooku

was. Has anyone seen the YouTube video of how

it like completely redos episode one and like

says how it should have been if someone besides

George Lucas was in control? Yeah. It's so incredible.

It is incredible. Yeah, that's where they basically

take the movie away from Anakin and make it a

Obi -Wan origin story. Right. And it would have

been excellent if it was done like that. And

then if you want, I mean, it's not fair, but

if you wanted to talk box office numbers or this

or that, obviously there's no contest here. Yeah.

My problem with Attack of the Clones is it got

so slow in those fucking love story scenes. Oh

my God. You just don't level up. And there were

boring love story scenes that they cut out. That's

not even all of them. That's not to say that

the 2009 Star Trek movie was awesome, and like

the other guy said, I agree that there has been

some gems along the way. But overall, there's

been a lot more misses in the Star Trek collection

than there has been in the Star Wars collection.

For me, with Star Trek, First Contact was the

first Star Trek movie I ever saw in a theater.

Because it was the best! That was a great movie.

And then consistent disappointment. Ten years

after that. I saw all the TNG ones in the theater.

Yep, same here. Opening night, every one of them.

Star Trek, the J .J. Abrams movie, I absolutely

love simply for all the nods and just for the

story that it told, a unique story that left

the original universe intact. It's a great reboot.

Except for Vulcan. Well, except for Vulcan, but

it's a rift in time, whereas, you know, hey,

we're DC, let's throw 70 years of continuity

out the fucking window and reboot the shit. That's

bullshit. Are you trying to dog on the Nolan

movies? No, DC, the comics, dumbass. The New

52. The New 52. Hey, some of that shit's kinda

cool. I'm sure it is, but it's, okay, it - Another

example, podcasters that we used to work with,

after so many episodes, they said, we're deleting

everything and restarting. We're deleting ourselves

off iTunes and rebooting everything. That was

just friggin' stupid. Yeah, that's kind of an

idiot move to delete all your back content. I

wouldn't have done that. Yeah, I agree with that

part. But with Star Wars... What I've noticed

since I've rewatched the six films so many times

in the last ten years, is that what I love the

best is episode three and episode six. And I

mentioned this in our NY or Star Wars stuff that

we did. I had no idea originally that, and I

don't have his name... Pulled up or whatever

the guy that plays Palpatine in Episode six Ian

McDermott. Yeah. Yeah, I had no idea that they

like at first I mean I guy it was a dead giveaway

when I first saw him in in in In episode one.

I was like, oh, hey, wait a second. That's the

Emperor and I love that They I love that the

casting people I'm not gonna say Lucas cuz I

don't think it was Lucas that went out but the

people who cast the films I love that. They said

hey Let's actually have some continuity with

our actors instead of pulling a dwarf hologram

like they did in Empire. Let's get the actor

that originally played the Emperor in Jedi to

play him as the Senator and we have that transformation

in episode three. What I love about the Star

Wars films specifically with Revenge of the Sith

and Return of the Jedi is the continuity. that

they set up, because at the end of Revenge of

the Sith, you go into A New Hope. And the same

thing with, you know, from Empire to Jedi. You

know, it brings it full circle, and I really

love that about those films. First Contact and

Star Trek 2009 are really, because to this day,

I know I need to do it, I've never seen Generations.

I've always wanted to see it, I just never have.

It's a good film. Unless you're a big Malcolm

McDowell fan. It's more so a passing of the torch

to the new crew. I kind of like it. That's what

you're mainly watching it for. You're not watching

it for Soren and all that. And it gives you some

back history of the Enterprise after Kirk. Right.

I think what it comes down to is obviously Star

Wars, the movies, is what fueled the franchise,

whereas Star Trek, the TV shows, is what fueled

the franchise. Star Trek has had more movies,

and like I said, maybe 10, 20 years from now,

if J .J. Abrams has made two or three of these

great Star Trek films, or someone else has carried

that on, and let's say three more Star Wars movies

get made that are utter crap, the discussion

could change, you never know. But as of right

now, Star Wars just doesn't have as many bad

apples amongst the the batch. Well that and I

think Star Wars is going to catch up as far as

how many TV series I've had. Right. Oh yeah,

most definitely. But the same way, even if they

do that, I think in the long run, Star Wars will

always be the one, the franchise that has the

better movies. And even if they catch up, Star

Trek will still have had the one that has the

better TV shows. Like it's just hard to just

flip it. It's hard to do anything, to take anything

that goes from its bread and butter to do something

else and be as successful, you know what I mean?

Right. Well, considering that Lucas has said

they're not gonna make... Well, he says that,

but he'll eventually be dead. Wow. Yeah. That

was great. We're gonna make seven, eight, and

nine, you know, and... God, they should have

done that first! They still should have done

that first. I will never understand why they

didn't do that first. Now they could do it, because

they're all old this time. They could have done

it at the time! They could have done it at the

time. They could have done it in 99. They could

have, yeah. But as I said before, in the episode,

everyone wanted to know what the fuck happened

in the Clone Wars. Because that was all, not

all, but the majority of episode four is - And

briefly mention Clone War. Your father fought

in the Clone Wars, and it's like, what the fuck's

Clone Wars? Yeah. Yeah, but they could have done

that anytime. There's people dying now that could

have been in the other one Right, it's like you're

not gonna bring Carrie Fisher back Okay, official

votes for the movies is all Star Wars I take

it yeah, yeah Star Wars. Yeah, I'm still going

track Okay. Wow, you have a healthy bias, sir.

What's that? You have a healthy bias. I feel

that three out of the six movies of Star Wars

is crap. Three? Yes. The first one? Well, I'll

say two. I don't like the first two films. And

then A New Hope, I'm not fond of either. Okay.

I like. Why do you hate America, Steve? You're

talking about the guy that flip -flaps his movies

every six months and on that note Moving on to

getting down to the end here the 18th category

the men behind the whole franchise is who was

slash is The bigger genius Gene Roddenberry or

George Lucas. Oh This should be a landslide for

Roddenberry What? Yeah, because Roddenberry didn't

constantly go back and change and rewrite and...

for oh hey it's this anniversary we have to change

it or hey we're going to blu ray or we're going

to hd or we're going to 3d we have to change

shit see that's not even my main argument though

it's part of it the reason i think roddenberry

is a bigger genius than lucas he was a futurist

he saw what we could become he saw the problems

that we inherently have as a society as a people

and spoke them in terms that maybe made it easier

he snuck racism episodes past the networks, the

first interracial kiss on television, making

character, I mean, fighting for, I mean, going

back to the data argument, fighting for rights,

what constitutes a sentient being? What questions

did George Lucas ask? Roddenberry was a philosopher

and a scientist. George Lucas was a kid who enjoyed

comic books and pulp magazines. George Lucas

had the better idea. as far as a universe and

creativity from that aspect, but Roddenberry

was the better executor. Most definitely. Of

his idea. I'm not saying, you know, obviously

George Lucas was way more successful as far as

money goes and this or that or whatever. So if

you want to judge success purely financially,

you'd have to say Lucas, but from a creative

standpoint, as far as like, The franchise the

actual franchise I can see why people are leaning

towards Roddenberry Steve I definitely say Roddenberry

just and Dodd and I talked about that on the

last Future imperfect just like he said he was

a futurist he he kind of He's paved the way pretty

much for all of our our modern technology I mean

you look at the iPad there was a pad in Star

Trek you look at the You know flip phone and

the you know smartphones. They had that kind

of stuff in Star Trek. I mean Everything we're

doing now. We're trying to compare with Star

Trek in general. So Star Trek actually has a

kind of underlying Influence on society without

people really knowing where the hell it all came

from originally and You know Star Wars may have

the bigger pop culture references But Star Trek

is more memorable overall because that's ultimately

what's guiding our society We have not heard

from I think that we need to look at what Roddenberry

was I mean his primary job was He was a television

writer. He didn't just write Star Trek I mean

he had other ideas some ideas that some of his

sci -fi ideas that didn't even come to fruition

until long after he was dead What was the other

series with the with the talons Babel on five.

I don't know. No, no Taylor. No, it was uh, I

Forget it was another series and then there was

there's been a few But I mean what he came up

with the initial idea for track and then he was

involved with the the next generation early on

mm -hmm, but then he died and So the stuff that

came afterwards Arguably a goodly chunk of next

generation was was not so much here Rick Berman

Exactly, it wasn't him. It wasn't Roddenberry

so much Roddenberry paved the way He created

the concept and paved the way and set the foundation

Exactly. It's a strong foundation. Don't get

me wrong, but after that So what you're saying

is he died? This would have died in the early

90s Well if george lucas had died in the early

90s would we have what we have now we probably

wouldn't would have gotten uh episode 7 8 9 which

arguably would have been better but let's not

wish ill of george lucas the fact is george lucas

is number one so alive number two didn't have

berman and braga he wrote it all himself that

all came out of his own head uh and i mean it

he holds the reins He even things that are written

about Star Wars if they don't get his personal

approval don't become canon It I mean he's still

there that and he's he's got more money than

God, you know second only like Bill Gates, I

think and Oh, who's that guy buff it, you know

with all the money so I mean There were there

will come a day where he Eventually sells it

to Disney and then they Make a bunch of money.

I don't think he'll sell it. I think I think

he's gonna pass it down to his children and they'll

sell it They may not sell it. No, I will never

die. Look Skywalker Ranch Skywalker sound ILM.

These are all owned by Lucas They they are there,

but they're not immortal how You think? As long

as people buy Star Wars... Every dollar you spend

on Star Wars murdered extends George Lucas's

life by one second. He will never die. It's just

like Peter Cullen, they're gonna put him on ice

and keep him around forever. That's right. He's

the only verified immortal on the planet. No,

they're gonna do him Futurama style. They're

gonna put his head in the jar. He's gonna dictate

Star Wars movie scripts for the foreseeable future.

From the jar. We will have to see. I'm hopeful

that eventually somebody else will get the reins

and do some good things with it, but we'll see.

I did not get your official vote, Wilson, on

the creator. I'm totally going Lucas. All right.

That takes us to our second to last category.

Don't know if there's a specific way we can judge

this, but number 19 is which fandom is superior?

Who's got the better fans? Star Wars fans or

Trekkies? Let's let Dodd go first in this one

since he's entrenched in both. And we know that

they obviously had an episode about the fandom

on Future Imperfect. Yes. It's you know, it's

a weird thing to say I'd say both fandoms have

their pluses and their negatives I think Star

Wars fandom is a lot more socially accepted because

I honestly think a lot of it stems from when

William Shatner was on Saturday Night Live saying

you people get a life um But you look at the

awesome fandom that's come out of Star Wars Look

at the 501st the amount of cool shit that comes

out of there the costuming people. Star Trek

costuming, it's cool. I mean, we have your Borg,

your Klingon, your Breen, your Andorians, blah,

blah, blah. They're relatively tame. But you

look at the effort that goes into Star Trek costuming.

Holy shit. Sorry, Star Wars costuming, rather.

Holy shit. It's impressive by anybody. I mean,

vacuformed armor for stormtroopers. There's Elvis

Trooper. He's awesome, by the way. And there's

just so much coolness in that fandom. And you

look at how Hasbro supports it, with the Comic

-Con exclusive figures, all the companies that

hold licensed replicas to do it. I mean, honestly,

the Star Wars fandom, and they're so accepting,

nine times out of ten. I mean, my real, I mean,

hell, I became a super nerd. I used to work for

a site called fx -sabers .com. They're still

around. And I was one of their lead administrators

and public relations guy way before. Excuse me

before I started college and that's how I got

into all the super nerdy shit that I've been

to now I mean I had a Star Wars collection easily

worth over five six thousand dollars and I don't

know just Star Trek fandom They're a lot more

quiet, but we've also had two movies which make

us look either really awesome or really insane

Trekkies And then you look at a movie for Star

Wars called Starweight, which was okay. Or you

look at The People versus George Lucas. Which,

you know what, is a really good documentary and

people should see it. And I think that's an important

thing a lot of people forget, just to jump back

to the creator debate for just a second. What

do we as the fans have a right to say about George

Lucas's movies? It's his movie. He can do whatever

the hell he wants with it. Once he releases it,

it does not become public property. It is still

his intellect He can if he wants to add the goddamn

my little ponies and gummy bears into it if he

thinks it'll it'll make it better He is fully

welcome to go do that and I'll be gummy as a

as a wookie see there you go or you know Fluttershy

is Vader, you know Thank You Tara strong There's

just so many things that the fandoms... I mean,

there isn't really even a rivalry anymore, I'd

say. I mean, it's just... You're either on one

side of the fence or the other. There really

is... I mean, I'm sure there's tons of people

like Dodd, who likes both of them, and like,

you know... I think it's more so than... Kevin,

who likes both of them. But we like each of the

franchises for different reasons. Yeah. But I

think what he was saying was before, in, like,

previous decades, you were either one or the

other. Right. Oh, we're just all nerds. I mean,

now we can enjoy them all. Yeah. I think for

me with the fandoms, to my knowledge, and I would

have known about this because, you know, once

you once someone becomes a YouTube sensation,

it's everywhere on the internet now. Is it Red

Letter Media? Oh, that guy. Yeah, dude. Red,

the guy from Red Letter Media that Breaks down

each of the Star Wars films. I don't think Trek

has someone like that that would take that much

time What is it like a 70 minute review for episode

one or something like that? See I think video

That's sci -fi guy from that guy with the glasses

Leo. He's been a guest on our show a few times.

He could pull it off Well, right, but what I'm

saying is like like take take the red letter

media guy who is broken down all the Star Wars

films Star Trek doesn't have Fan that is that

dedicated that has done it or at least one that

we as a we as a group are aware of Yeah, they're

probably Exactly Steve, what are your well, I

know those damn films inside and out. So I mean

that's I own them all. Yeah, but and If I had

enough determination, I would do that, but I

don't I'm lazy You said it not us. Well, I I'm

not debating it. I've clearly said I'm lazy,

otherwise I would do something like that. But

I would think overall the fans are... And Trunk

fans are more kind of... We're intellectuals,

I'd say. Well, not only that, but we get offended

very easily when people attack our fandom. And

I say that being that Star Wars fans, like for

instance, my wife hates with a passion Star Trek.

Yep, same here. She cannot stand the show. The

only one that she will sit through is the Abrams

movie. And that's because she says that they're

not just sitting on the bridge. Yeah. And to

which I can understand that some of the other

most of the TV show is spent. The bridge it's

problem -solving and talking. It's yeah. It's

it's a lot of that which you got to like that

kind of banter back and forth It's the same reason

I do You know it and she likes Star Wars. She

can sit and watch all the Star Wars movies didn't

bother whatsoever I while I like it Star Trek

on the other hand is I mean, yeah, the films

are completely different monster all together,

but it You're either one or the other or you

like both. And my boat, I'm kind of, I'm more

of a Trek fan than Star Wars, but I still like

both. It's where, you know, it's just, I feel

like a lot of the fans just from stuff I've watched

are so in depth with it that they've... created

their own, you know, Trek religions. They've,

you know, altered their apartment spaces to look

like, um, you know, entire, uh, rooms or, or

centers of like starships, you know, it's just

people get so. That app that has, that can make

it look like you have the Star Trek. People go

to the extreme that they've actually built these,

these Star Trek. rooms like just it is completely

set up like the show and it's it's insane I'll

grant you that it takes a lot of determination

to do that I certainly wouldn't do that but I

think it's awesome but I think Star Trek fans

are more rabid of a fan base than Star Wars And

especially when it comes to toys, I'll tell you

that right now Star Trek fans toys or or The

the costuming and you know, all the other aspects

of it. I mean people treat it like it's a damn

religion well, I drink like for instance we and

one of the episodes of future imperfect we talked

about the fandom and There was even a fan that

drank like I think it was like John the Q virus

Yeah, the Q virus they drink John Delancey's

Water that he had clearly said I have a cold

and the guys like I want the Q virus, you know,

it's just Like that. I mean you you get these

fans that are just kind of morbid in that fence

of Scotty's hair or something so they can clone

him or you know, I mean just weird shit The main

difference for me is I've known more Star Trek

fans that can't separate The franchise and reality

I I've known more sure problem. I've known more

Star Trek fans that take it to an unhealthy extreme

or that can't seem to You know, like I said,

they can't separate it from their daily lives

They can't separate it from reality Whereas Star

Wars fans you can run into people that know every

fact or every trivia bit about Star Wars That

would walk around in their everyday life and

you would never know they're a Star Wars fan

Let my stepdads like that. He knows he's the

one that got us into the Star Wars like I In

high school. I remember I remember playing like

the Star Wars trip or pursuit game with a few

people and we would literally you would Whoever

went first one Like because they would never

if I went first I won because I never missed

a question if my one friend went first He won

because he never missed a question, but we would

have walked around and you would have not if

you would have randomly asked our classmates

If we were Star Wars fans, they would not have

even known. Yeah. Whereas a Star Trek fan, you

can spot them a mile away. I wear a con badge.

I'm not ashamed to say that. The only thing about

that is I actually found - Don't you have Star

Trek tattoos, Dodd? I do not have Star Trek tattoos.

The closest one, I'm planning on getting a Mass

Effect one. That's the closest one. But you can

still separate it from reality. Yeah. What are

you talking about? This isn't the holodeck? No.

Yeah, because you're here. You clearly wouldn't

be here if this was not a strap. No. I love you.

Not at all. Computer? It's not stopping. Computer

error. Does anybody else have points? They have

a computer exit. Anybody else have points they

want to bring up for more arguments before we

do a vote for this round? Hot ass bitches in

the Star Wars fandom. That is true. Yes. Yes.

You know, I want to say, I'm a fan. Star Trek

and I'm a fan of Star Wars, but I'm not involved

in the fandoms Yeah, I've met guys from the 501st

and they're really into it and they're really

good guys You know, I I appreciate the things

that they do for charity and such The only fandom

I'm involved in seriously is that the Transformers

fandom, which is a much less friendly fandom

it's it it is it's not very friendly at all in

fact it's it's an open i would go so far as say

it's an openly hostile fandom it's essentially

cutthroat it is it's to the point where where

if they acknowledge your presence at all uh then

they're usually mean i will say one thing about

the star trek fandom when i mentioned the toys

earlier um In my youth I was in several different

foster homes and one of them I was in for like

a weekend just as a temporary placement and Apparently

this guy this guy that was you know running the

foster home He was a huge Star Trek nerd And

he had on display one of the classic enterprises

that was, at the time, was probably worth $2

,000. I don't remember. It was just some classic

Trek toy. And I picked it up, and he just freaked

out and just punished me on the spot just for

touching his fucking toy. So the Star Trek fandom

is way more diehard when it comes to the memorabilia

and all that. I don't know about that, Mike.

I've met some pretty fucking weirdos, man. If

you had seen my room at one point, you would

have been killed if you would have touched one

of my Star Wars toys. Same here. Touch my stuff

and die. Yeah. If you touched anything worth

$2 ,000, seriously, you're in for a hurt. Well,

I didn't know at that time. I mean, it wasn't

like I did it on, you know. First of all, if

you would have touched any one of my Star Wars

figures, it probably would have had a domino

effect, and I would have had 6 ,000 Star Wars

figures to pick up. Not quite that many, but

darn near a thousand. And I would have been pretty

pissed. Well, this was like in their living room,

on like the man - I mean, this was like one piece

of a collection. That was in one - it wasn't

like I went into the dude's collection room.

And it wasn't like I did it on purpose. You did.

Anyway. Alright. Official votes for fandom, starting

with Blanchard. Star Wars and then going to Dodd

I'd say Star Trek because we're a lot more laid

-back Mr. Wilson I'm gonna go with Star Wars

for the excellent work by the 501st Steve Star

Trek Alright Star Wars for me So that adds that

up I'm doing my math here and that leads us to

our overall opinions on the franchise overall,

encompassing everything, taking into consideration

all aspects of the franchise. Which franchise

do you think is the superior franchise? Let's

get Wilson's thoughts on that first. Once again,

I think that it depends on where you fall in

your sciency fiction type preferences. Star Wars

is more science fantasy. Anything goes you've

got laser swords. Yeah space opera Except yeah.

Well, yeah, there's music involved. Yeah. So

yeah space opera Whereas Star Trek is more hard

sci -fi It's more rooted in actual physics actual

science it's it is futurism and Not as action

oriented, you know personally I I I like more

fantasy, more action, so I'm leaning toward Star

Wars. See, for me, what it boils down to, and

I, Next Generation is one of my all -time favorite

TV shows, like, in all genres, across all decades,

Next Generation would easily be in my top five.

all time. But my problem is, if I'm going with

the overall franchise, I don't necessarily care

for all of the other TV shows that have been

in the Star Trek franchise. The movies, I love

two -thirds of them, or roughly between a half

and two -thirds of them. And then there's some

that I don't care for. Star Wars as a franchise,

I basically love all the movies, minus parts

of episode one. I love the Clone Wars. Shows

animated versions. They got good games. Star

Wars has a far superior toy line I'm you know

music person and the music and Star Wars is better

So if you're going taking everything overall

in the life of these franchises, I think Star

Wars has done more things in a superior fashion

across the board Not to say that Star Trek, you

know an exploration and a few things like that

aren't Top of their genres, but I just think

there's more to like in Star Wars than there

is in Star Trek and I love both of them Steve

what are your thoughts? Well, I I'm going Well,

I'm gonna do a breakdown first like Star Wars

overall the the films a little over half of the

films What the hell I'm just gonna say two -thirds

of the films are Good you have the the comic

line which is just superb You have the animated

series which Star Trek has never been able to

pull off properly And then on the Star Trek side

yeah, I I'm still not that great of a fan of

enterprise, but I still love the other four shows

After going back and rewatching them I do like

two -thirds of the films the comics blow the

games blow And their animated series wasn't all

that hot but I still think and just based on

The the fact for one I like intellectual shows

more than just straight -on battle shows like

Star Wars But I also think there's a lot more

to gain with watching Star Trek over Star Wars

whereas Star Wars is just a Sit back have fun

watch it movie. Whereas it's not really all that

much thinking going on and I prefer And think

it's I don't know a little bit more Probable

to sit there and watch Star Trek. So I'm going

to Star Trek I'm also gonna go with Star Trek.

I mean, I love Star Wars. I think it's a great,

I mean, it's a fun story. But at the end of the

day, I need something a little more intellectual.

I like being challenged. I like having my beliefs

and my philosophy challenged. And that's something

Star Wars has never done for me, really. I mean,

I love the sound design in Star Wars. I like

Star Wars more from a technical standpoint and

more from a prop standpoint. But if I had to

pick a way to waste an afternoon, I'm going to

sit down with my friends from the United Federation

of Planets. And we're going to uphold the principles

of the Federation. Mr. Blanchard Not to cop out

here, but everything Kevin said I agree with

and those are pretty much my thoughts I like

certain aspects of Trek I don't like all of Trek

and I've always been on You know, we mentioned

earlier about back in the day It was either you're

on one side or the other and I have always been

on the side of Star Wars Star Wars is something

where I can you know Turn spike on on a Saturday

afternoon when they're running all six movies

and I can just you know Phase in and out of a

nap watching all six movies on cable So yeah

overall Star Trek Star Wars, I think is the better

overall franchise Yeah, I mean, you know if we

were just comparing one aspect of it I could

see Star Trek winning in a lot of different categories

and a lot of different aspects But you know like

Steve said the the comics are better in Star

Wars Like Dodd said the games are better in Star

Wars The movies are better in Star Wars there's

just too many parts the toys are better in Star

Wars and I'm just thinking of an overall aspect

I'm not taking one TV show versus one movie or

you know this or that and go ahead well the thing

with the toys is Star Wars consistently there

hasn't been an actual like seven eight or nine

at all Star Wars consistently is a toy line that

Hasbro produces whereas Star Trek that that license

has been Lost over the years. I think Hasbro

has a Partial Star Trek license since they're

making Star Trek Creos now, but I mean just you

know Star Wars is just had a longer And I don't

want it to sound like I'm not an intellectual

person or I don't like intellectual things. Nine

times out of ten, I will take the thinking thing

over the, you know, anything else. I love intellectual

things and I love being challenged. And I agree

that, you know, the writing in Star Trek does

do that. But, man, the cultural influence of

Star Wars and the way it's reached internationally.

But Star Trek has done the same thing, though.

But not to the same level. I don't know. That's

a debatable point. Yeah, I mean, there's no way

to prove it either way exactly But it just seems

like Star Wars has had that much bigger of an

impact to me at least I don't know So my votes

with Star Wars on this one. I love both franchises

I'm a huge fan of both of them, but there's just

been more aspects of Star Wars done, right? So

I think it's time for me to do a quick tally

and figure out the winner of this debate yes

the winner and we'll have a little drum roll

here for the winner winning in a very very close

battle um their categories were the categories

were split actually 11 to 9 wow um not a tie

like we had with the thundercats and silverhawks

where we had to go to the individual vote but

it wouldn't matter if we went categories or individual

vote the winner of this debate overall either

way we sum it up is actually star wars i can't

say i'm surprised star wars wins 11 to 9 um you

know we gave star trek the the iconic ships,

we gave them the technology, the artificial intelligence,

the alien races, the women, the good characters

we gave Star Trek, the writing, the acting, and

the creative genius behind it. But there was

just a couple more categories that went Star

Wars way. If we broke it down into individual

votes, Star Wars won 54 to 46. There was quite

a few categories. It seemed like when Star Wars

won, they won unanimously in a bunch of different

times. One, two, three, four, five, six different

times, Star Wars won in a unanimous vote. So

that is the winner of this GCRN wars debate,

Star Trek versus Star Wars. Star Wars, you are

crowned champions. Final thoughts on this whole

Escapade, Mr. Wilson. If you're still listening

to this show, congratulations. Oh, shut up. It's

not that long. Michael, final thoughts. He is

not listening to the show. Mr. Blanchard, final

thoughts. Oh, holy. Hold on there. Hold on a

second. I'm sorry. I was on mute. You totally

missed. I was on my soapbox again and I was...

Yeah, I was totally giving you an earful. Well,

go ahead continue It didn't occur to me that

oh shit nobody can hear me Yeah, no I I walked

into this thinking that Star Wars was the better

franchise and and now I have been vindicated

Which is awesome. I feel pretty good about that

And any other thoughts that was your soapbox

right there? You know, I had a stronger opinion

before I was humiliated and embarrassed with

my judicious use of mute gone hideously awry.

Final thoughts, Mike Blanchard. I found it kind

of surprising how many different, like, the category

round up. I thought it would have been a much

closer vote. but overall both franchises have

things to enjoy about them so yeah that's my

final thought I was surprised I didn't realize

that it was gonna end up where we have two people

mainly voting Star Trek two people mainly voting

Star Wars and a neutral person I didn't know

that's how it was I thought I wasn't I didn't

know the level to which each of you liked certain

franchises this way or that way I mean nobody

voted straight ticket or you know however you

want to call it So I was kind of surprised at

how it shaped up. A lot of the things I thought

would go Star Trek's way went Star Trek's way,

and a lot of things I thought would go Star Wars'

way went Star Wars' way. I like that it was that

close. I'm glad it wasn't a landslide, because

both franchises have a lot of cool aspects. I

think the right franchise won. I voted, let's

see, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,

eight. I had nine, I voted nine categories for

Star Trek and 11 for Star Wars, so. I guess I

agree. Steve, what are your thoughts? Besides

upset, Steve's all jaded now. He says I was robbed.

Yeah, a little bit, but I'm not entirely surprised.

I almost had that feeling going in what was going

to happen. So I can't say I'm entirely surprised.

But overall, it was. It was nice to see one one

win over the other and kind of put things into

perspective a little bit so Birdman final thoughts

um like I said I'm not surprised start our Star

Wars won this one because like you said you have

to look at the cultural impact that it's made

and I Think Star Wars in some ways has a much

better universe in terms of which and to where

it can tell its stories. But I think Star Trek

has maybe more poignant things to say. I think

I think Star Wars is a wonderful world to escape

to. But Star Trek is a world we have to live

in, if that makes sense to learn from. Yeah.

I think that's an accurate way to say it. I mean,

Star Wars is the entertaining one. Star Trek

is the educational one. And to make it very black

and white, even though there's a lot of gray

also, but. I agree with everything you said there.

I think it's a good debate, and I think we accurately

named certain categories the way they should

have gone. I think this episode is going to get

a lot of comments. Oh, yeah. Mike, you can spin

off of that a little bit. All right. Well, back

when we... recorded and released episode 3 of

JCR and Wars Thundercats vs Silverhawks we discussed

at the end of that recording what we wanted to

do for the next episode and I think it was Michael

Wilson at the time or somebody I forget who it

was might have been Kevin I don't know somebody

brought up Star Trek vs Star Wars and we were

like okay cool And a couple days ago, a couple

weeks ago, I made a post on the Facebook fan

page of, GCN Wars, episode four, Star Trek versus

Star Wars, and blah, blah, blah. And at the bottom

of it I said, yes, the irony is not lost on me

that episode four of this podcast is a Star Wars

debate podcast. But this leads us into the next

evolution of GeekCast Radio Network because on

June 21st, 2012 at 11 p .m. Eastern Standard

Time, We will be launching GCRN Live and what

this is going to be is a monthly live show that

we will be doing random topics. The first one

is actually going to be an extension of this

episode if anyone wants to come on and argue

and debate with us. That's fine. There will be

more details in a blog post that we'll be doing

later as far as the full details of GCRN Live.

But yeah, that's what we're leading up to in

2012 is we are going live. Exactly. So there'll

be a chance to continue this conversation, bring

up other points, argue points, et cetera, all

with us live on the air. So that will be very

fun, very cool. Does anybody want to pimp out

anything before we get into the outro? Yeah,

Future Imperfect, sponsored by SFI .org, the

world's largest Star Trek online fan club. I'm

now back doing rads. I'm doing about two a week

right now. So looking forward to that. I should

have a Mass Effect one out by the time this one

is out. I'm also on a new radio station. You

can now listen to me on Mix 100 up in Yellowknife.

CHCD. Awesome that they brought me on. So I'm

looking forward to doing that. The hell kind

of a town is called Yellowknife. It's the furthest.

You never heard of it? Yeah, you should maybe

look at a globe once in a while. Mike, real quick,

how can people though find your different stuff,

your podcast and all your other stuff? Where

do they need to go? The best way to find me is

usually on thisweekengeek .net that usually has

everything and we work with Mike over at GCRN

so you can find our content and his content on

the weekends typically. And yeah, so check us

out thisweekengeek .net and reviewaday .ca or

blizzardthumbs .net. And Mr. Wilson, can you

tell people about your other adventures that

you have going on and how people can see or hear

more of you? Well, currently, I'm doing a little

thing called Roll to the Rescue Bots, which is

a video podcast that I do with my boy Aidan.

It's a cartoon review show. We're reviewing rescue

bots from a five -year -old's perspective. That's

awesome. It is really cool. It's turning out

nicer than I thought it would. The downside is

I don't have as much time to put this together.

So I'm getting them out about once a month at

this point, which is bad. And you can find those

at our website, geekcastradio .com. Or michaelandchrissey

.com, which is his website. Perfect and obviously

I will throw a pimp out there to BehindTheVoiceActors

.com where you can find me most of the time and

where we currently when this airs we will be

in the process of our second season of actor

voice out the voice acting contest there which

has some voice actors that are partaking and

participating and helping us out with that so

everybody should go check that out and possibly

vote for Steve if he yes is lucky enough to get

to that point in the state in the process so

hopefully he is there and you can vote for him

as we speak Steve or Mike anything you guys want

to say before we close this out? Well as we I

don't know if we mentioned it on air but we mentioned

it off air After this episode gets released,

we will have recorded and released an interview

with the goddamn Batman, Kevin Conroy. That'll

be awesome. Mast Mayhem is still going strong,

which is our Mast Review podcast. Is Telecast

coming back any time soon? Yes, there will be

some more Telecast closing out season one. Also,

as far as GCR and wars, like I said, we're going

to have a lot more of these. If you want to hear

more of this, you need to give us feedback and

tell us what kind of things you want to hear.

We also have a... versus DC we have a lot of

cool stuff planned that's a great idea we also

have a ultimate battle royale type tournament

that is going to be starting at some point with

GCR and wars which I don't want to give too many

details out but that will be a cool thing where

we we have a tournament style debate so it's

not just a one episode thing it's multiple episodes

with people or things advancing in a tournament

type bracket yeah so that will be fun anything

else I like pie! That's a good thing to add!

Alright, then I'd like to thank everybody for

joining us in the Warzone today and thanks to

all of the co -hosts that... gave us a lot of

hours of time here. There are several ways to

get in contact with us or leave feedback for

the show. Obviously, visit the website geekcastradio

.com. You can comment on all of our posts. You

can start the debate there, and you can learn

more about that live, GCRN Live that we were

talking about. You can send email to feedback

at geekcastradio .com. You can leave the show

feedback in iTunes. You can follow all of us

on Twitter, Geekcast Radio, or whatever, you're

all individual. This week in Geek is the twig

Twitter. TFG1 Mike for Mike, Optimus Solo for

me, SCP -21, is that what yours is Steve? Yes.

Michael Wilson, what's your Twitter? PConcordMichael.

And Don? Birdman, Dodd! You can also become a

fan of us on Facebook. Just search for Geekcast

Radio Network there. You can call the voicemail

line, tell us the show that you're leaving the

message for and your name. The voicemail number

is 502 -526 -5821 or if you have a possible way

to record straight from your computer, you can

just go to geekcastradio .com and there's a button

to leave us a voicemail just with your mic plugged

into your computer. We hope you enjoyed this

episode of GCR and Wars and hope that you'll

join us next time when once again two geek topics

will be pitted against each other in an epic

battle to the death. For now, I am Optimus Solo

with... TF2 and Mike. Steve Megatron Phillips.

Michael Wilson. Mike the Birdman Dodd! Live long

and prosper and may the force be with you. Dr.

Cooper. Dr. Cooper. Is someone there? Down here,

on your desk. Spock? I need to speak with you.

Fascinating. The only logical explanation is

that this is a dream. It is not the only logical

explanation. For example, you could be hallucinating

after being hit on the head by, say, a coconut.

Was I hit on the head by a coconut? I'm not going

to dignify that with a response Now to the matter

at hand you need to play with the transporter

toy But it's mint in box. Yes and to open it

would destroy its value, but remember like me

You also have a human half Well, I'm not going

to dignify that with a response Consider this

What is the purpose of a toy? To be played with.

Therefore, to not play with it would be... Illogical.

Damn it, Spock, you're right. I'll do it. Sheldon,

wait. You have to wake up first. Of course. Set

phasers to dumb, right? Goody, goody, goody.

Two suns and no sunscreen. Hello again, Sheldon.

What is it now, Tiny Spock? I am very disappointed

in you. You broke your toy and switched it with

Leonard's. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You're the one who told me to play with it. If

I told you to jump off the bridge of the Enterprise,

would you do it? If I got on the bridge of the

Enterprise, I would never ever leave. Trust me,

it gets old after a while. You must right your

wrong, Sheldon. Why? I got away with it. Leonard

has his toy, and he's never going to open it,

so he won't know it's broken. And I have a toy

that isn't broken. Everybody's happy. Well, I

am unhappy. I thought where you come from, they

don't have emotions. I come from a factory in

Taiwan. Now do the right thing. You know what

you are? Well, you're a green -blooded buzzkill.

Perhaps this time you beam on out of here. Fine.

I will just use the transporter. Oh, right. You

broke it. Very well. Cooper to Enterprise, one

to beam up. Energize! Live long and prosper.

In a bar, two sexy chicks have a lightsaber fight.

Round one! the force within you. These aren't

the girls you're looking for. In Han Solo's bathroom,

two more sexy chicks have a lightsaber fight

in front of Chewbacca. Round two, fight! Stroke

the Wookie. Sabre, unleash the force within you.

Make it sound. space, the final frontier. These

are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise, its

continuing mission to explore strange new worlds,

to seek out new life and new civilizations, to

boldly go where no one has gone before.