Star Trek TOS vs TNG Face-Off

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presents GCRN Wars. Two geek topics will be challenged.

The ultimate battle will come to pass. One shall

stand. One shall fall. and welcome to episode

13 of GCRN Wars. I'm your host, as always, Optimus

Solo, and joining me for this war is Steve Megatron

Phillips. Hello. Good day. Hello. And Fridley

Scent. Hey there. Back for another war. And Mike

the Birdman Dodd. Hello, sir. Woo! Hi. And today

we will tackle a classic science fiction argument.

We will force Trekkies to face off against Fellow

checkies, the topic today is which series is

better, Star Trek, the original series, or Star

Trek, the next generation. So let the games begin.

Anybody have any opening things to say before

we get into the categories, Mr. Birdman? Man,

the classic series is so boned. Before we even

looked at the, before any of you guys saw the

script, before anybody saw any of the categories,

etc., just kind of thinking of the two series

in general, traditionally do you have a leaning

one way or the other, Steve? It depends on the

category, but without having to look at it, I'm

kind of torn between both because those are my

top two. Track series for multiple reasons What

about you Matt? Did you have a preference going

into this that you thought before you started

breaking it down? Honestly before I looked at

the script that I I thought exactly what Birdman

was saying was that TNG is gonna win this hand

over fist But I don't think it's as close. I

think it's closer than that when I look at the

script We have yet to have a blowout, I believe.

I don't have all the scores right in front of

me, but I'm pretty sure they've always been pretty

darn close, which brings up a good point that

we should get to before we get completely into

this one. We still need your help for episode

12 of GCRN Wars. If you listen to that one all

the way through, you will hear that that one

did end in a... Complete deadlock a complete

tie. There's a poll up on the website that will

continue to run until we record episode 14 So

once we record episode 14 that poll will close

and we will deem a winner in the pirates versus

ninjas War that we had so go to GCN and find

the page and vote in that poll so we can get

a winner on that All right that business aside

Anybody else have thoughts before we get into

category one? No. All right. Then let's start

it off here with the first category for Star

Trek versus Star Trek. And that is, of course,

the iconic ships, the USS Enterprise versus the

USS Enterprise. Who wants to start on which was

the more impressive ship? Well, it depends you

want me to break this down via what it accomplished

or the technical details because the galaxy class

Starship would kick the ever -living crap out

of the Constitution class However, you whichever

way you'd like to go sir Okay, well, let's talk

about the Galaxy Class Starship, which is the

USS Enterprise, which was, I think, the second

Galaxy Class ship constructed because there was

the original USS Galaxy, which was the prototype.

Well, the phaser banks on this thing, I think

their Type X phasers would cut... right through

the other enterprises whole like it was nothing.

The photon torpedo loads are significantly larger

on the galaxy class starship as opposed to this

one. Mind you're also talking about a hundred

year difference in technology as well as the

original enterprise didn't have replicators,

the transporters didn't have as long a range,

science facilities were not as advanced, holodecks

need I say more, computer power, storage capacity.

I mean the galaxy class structure could effectively

move civilizations if it had to. Like they could

evacuate planets with the proper support. A constitution

class, not a way in hell could it accomplish

something like that without significant support.

Um, plus it just was There were more people on

board a galaxy class starship I mean, I think

I think minimum you could staff the galaxy with

170 people I think that's what the technical

status. I'm not a hundred percent sure on that

In fact, where's my technical manual? I'm just

looking on my shelf here. I don't see it. But

if the Constitution did have one advantage over

the galaxy is that it did require less of a skeleton

crew, but required more maintenance. Because

you saw how often Scotty was always in engineering.

Something was always breaking. You could make

the same argument for the Enterprise D in the

galaxy class line of starships. But with the...

the invention of isolinear chips doing a lot

of their computing power. A lot of that, a lot

of the wear and tear was kind of reduced because

they could identify problems before they happened

and kind of do preventative maintenance, whereas

the other way around, it really wasn't possible.

Let me see, Steve, what am I leaving out here?

Steve, what does the Constitution have any, give

me the upsides of the Constitution. Well, the

upsides of it is its maneuverability, its the

ability to be jury -rigged in whatever fashion

that they need, not saying that the Galaxy class

couldn't do the same thing because they did it

on many occasions. However, the Constitution

class, for one, it got a nice upgrade that actually

happened, not an alternate timeline like the

Enterprise -D did, and it's just the fact that

there was a lot more that you could Customize

more or less with it Basically, I think there

were a lot more Configurations you could do with

the with the Constitution class There was a game

that came out about 15 or 20 years ago now when

you really look at it I think it was called It

wasn't Starfleet Academy. It was like stars Star

Trek battles or something it was done by interplay

in like 98 or something like that and I remember

there being a crap ton of Configurations you

could do with the enterprise and the galaxy class

sure you you could do a lot of configurations

But I didn't see many more. I think the galaxy

class was a little bit or the Constitution class

was a little bit more versatile Matt is this

one a slam dunk? I you know like they're talking

specs and numbers and things but like if you

look at them just look at them the Constitution

looks way more what I think of when I think of

classic sci -fi whereas the the D it just looks

like a giant frumpy space city it I definitely

have to agree I if I had to compare the two the

the original Constitution version wins for me

every time only because it was the first and

it just it it just looks like the space exploration

vehicle whereas the other one screams 90s or

screams 80s so if you could have flying saucer

if you could if you could either captain one

or if you could have a model of one if you're

looking at it in that respect does that does

that change the way you look at it which one

would you rather have or which one would you

rather pilot Galaxy class man holodecks I'm not

leaving and you and you all know exactly why

if you if you had to have a model of one The

Constitution does look a little cooler. I will

give you that one. I I definitely Swing definitely

towards the the Constitution class. I've always

been a fan of it my favorite iteration is the

the a that from the original series because it

still counts. There's definitely a lot of different

ways to look at it and I guess you know you could

look at it which one looks cooler which one can

do more which one did more I guess there's it

depends on what which way you look at the ships

but does it doesn't I don't know if you guys

have your minds made up or not but we'll go around

and see if we got votes Steve I'm assuming you're

voting for the original series Enterprise? Definitely.

Okay Matt what do you think? I'm going to go

with the D. I just think it doesn't look as cool.

It doesn't look as cool, but still gets your

vote. I'm with you for a couple of things that

Birdman was saying. As far as in a fight, it

wins. And there's a lot more things to do on

board. So I've always kind of leaned towards

the next generation version. What about you,

Birdman? Oh, definitely Galaxy. Definitely the

Enterprise D. Alright, so that does it for the

first category we're gonna get into a series

of categories that is comparing the Characters

of these two shows and then we'll get into some

other stuff towards the end outside of the characters

But starting off obviously makes sense We have

to do the classic comparison of the captains

of these ships that we were just talking about

So we're talking about James T Kirk and we're

talking about Jean -Luc Picard Matt why don't

you start with this one? What's your first thoughts

when you think about these two individuals? Well,

they're both very cocky, confident guys, which

is something you kind of want in a TV show, Captain.

I don't know how good it'd be in an actual military

setting. But I don't know. I think of Patrick

Stewart. He's this huge Shakespearean actor and

known worldwide. And then you've got William

Shatner. who's known worldwide for other reasons.

The Shattisms. Yeah. Like, there's definitely

some disparity between acting skill, but I don't

know if there's disparity between captaining

skill, you know? They're different guys and they

approach things differently. And I know that,

I don't know, I think of Patrick Stewart as huge,

but I don't know if he's as well known for his

Star Trek role as Shatner is, you know? There

may be a reason for that too as you mentioned

if you're gonna look at this one from a purely

acting standpoint We don't even need to discuss

it Patrick Stewart is superior actor than William

Shatter in any way shape or form you look at

it. You cannot more than that Birdman, what do

you think when you think about these two guys?

I think TJ Hooker versus Professor X is a pretty

easy fight. Just saying. Honestly, for me, it

comes down... I mean, actors... Patrick Stewart,

I was going to call him Captain Picard. In terms

of captaining Picard, without a doubt, because

yes, Kirk, you did accomplish a lot, but you

pissed off the Klingons more than once. Picard

didn't start any wars and he defeated the Borg.

and he made Q spare humanity Kirk sure you may

have saved the Federation Picard saved humanity

let that sink in for a minute boom headshot the

other thing is from a personality standpoint,

even though they're both captains, and they're

both from Star Trek, and they're both the captain

in the Enterprise, et cetera, et cetera. And

there are a lot of similarities that you can

compare. They're very different as far as personalities

go. I mean, I know you said that they're both

a little cocky, a little arrogant, et cetera.

But I still think from a personality standpoint

that they're vastly different. um from a maturity

standpoint um from an intelligence standpoint

their characters are are very much different

um you know obviously Kirk when he's taking over

uh when he's taking this position you know he

is he is young he is green um You know, he's

in a completely different position than when

John Luke Picard's character is introduced to

us in the next generation as obviously a more

of a seasoned veteran type character So they

do have a lot of differences as well. Steve.

What do you what do you think of when you think

of these two? Well, I do love Kirk and he That

was my original captain that I Remember as a

kid growing up in addition to Picard I still

have to give it to Picard only for the fact that,

one, he's had to grow as a captain. For one,

he had his heart stabbed out by the Nausicaans,

which is what caused him to become the captain

that he is, whereas Kirk was kind of like, he

was more cocky, whereas Picard was cocky until

that point and then... everything was more calculated

and diplomatic and thought through. Whereas Kirk's

like, let's gamble and see, you know, and hope

that the dice roll in his favor more or less.

And I think that that's why, I mean, both of

them have commanded more than one Federation

ship. I mean, Kirk's had, you know, the original

enterprise, the reconstructed enterprise, the...

U .S .S .A. and then you have Picard that's had

the Stargazer, the Enterprise D and the Enterprise

E. They've each had three ships that they've

been captain of, but I think that the reason

that Picard stands out more so is because he's,

for the very same reasons Dodd said, he's just

overall a better captain. Alright, so your vote

is for Picard, Steve? Correct. And Dodd, you're

the same? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I'm gonna give

it to Picard, but I think Kirk could have beaten

just about anybody else Hey, he's going to get

anybody else. I will agree I could make a pretty

passionate argument for Janeway and Cisco and

I'd ignore you except Archer fuck Archer Yep,

exactly Go back to quantum leap asshole anyway

Clean sweep in this category four votes for Picard

All hate mail can be directed to. Exactly. I

know there's a ton of Kirk fans out there and

there's a ton of people that like him better

than Picard. I just don't... I don't... If I'm

joining a crew and I get to pick who I... who's

gonna be my captain, I'm taking Picard every

time. I feel more secure and more safe about

my life. He's not reckless. Yeah, and about what

we're gonna accomplish and the things, you know,

not just in a battle sense, but on a... just

like from a humanitarian type thing and all that.

So, you know, I guess it goes back to what their

voyage is all about. I think Picard can handle

that better. I know going through here that some

people are going to question which people I paired

up with, which people, et cetera, et cetera.

There's probably 12 different ways you could

do this, but it is the way it is. So you can.

direct your hate at the comparisons and who I'm

pitting against each other directly to me and

that's all my fault. Send it to feedback at geekcastradio

.com. Just say Optimist Solo is retarded. Hashtag.

But her next category, I decided to somewhat

go with the science officers, quote unquote.

And I know also some people had different roles

throughout the run of their show, which we didn't

mention. But I guess we can get that out of the

way. Most people that are watching this, I'm

assuming no. But Star Trek, the original series,

obviously, was a three season show, 79 episodes

from 1966 to 1969, whereas The Next Generation

was a seven season show, 178 episodes from 1987

to. 1994. And the science officers we're comparing

here in this third category would be Spock and

Data. I think they're a good comparison for multiple

different reasons. I know when we get through

all the characters, we'll talk about some of

the other ways we could have matched them up.

But I like Spock and Data going against each

other. And I'm actually starting this category

off with no idea how I'm voting, because I keep

going back and forth on these two for different

reasons. So it might depend on what you all say.

Birdman, how do you how do you break these two

guys down? How do you compare these two and how

do you decide who's better? Well, it depends

on when you're comparing these characters like

do you do data? pre -emotion chip or post -emotion

chip? Because that's an important distinction

to look at, too. Also, are you factoring in anything

expanded universe, such as video games, comic

books, and, well, books? And for Spock, you have

to kind of apply the same kind of rules there

as well. I mean, this is a harder category than

you might think, even for me. I mean... I'm probably

gonna go data, but at the same time Spock does

have that half human intuition, whereas he wouldn't,

I wouldn't use the word reckless, but he takes

calculated risks with that little bit of a human

hunch, whereas data, it breaks down by data.

There literally is no... well let's take a shot

and see what happens he's like okay if i factor

this that and the other thing i calculate x amount

probability of success whereas spock it's a gut

thing and logic it's a logical gut response if

that makes any guy mad how would you break this

one down or how would you start to tackle it

um yeah i'm just as on the fence as you are i'm

thinking like who makes a better like Co -star

or you know person to bounce off of because I

think of like Kirk and Spock's interaction like

you green -blooded heartless bastard and things

like that and I think like data gets more like

It's like a data about this like oh, he's just

a robot And I think that like Spock is more interesting

to have in a group than data is I was just about

to say something similar I was gonna say what

if we look at it as who was more important to

their individual series because to me Initially,

I'm thinking that Data has so much more going

for him. But if you look at who is more important

to their individual series, that to me seems

like it's Spock, because does the classic series

survive and is it as good if you take Spock out

of it? Whereas Data, as good as he is, maybe

has a stronger supporting cast that you could

take Data out and that show still survives easier?

Yeah, because Part of the appeal and the power

of the original series is that chemistry between

Nimoy and Shatner, not just on Street. Well,

and DeForest Kelly. Yeah, and DeForest Kelly.

It's that trio or even that duo working together.

And as much as I love Data, he's not second in

command. He's third at best. And even then, Picard

will always default to Riker. He's like, well,

what do you think number one not well, mr. Data,

what's your opinion, but he doesn't ask them?

You know what? I mean, he's gonna rely on Ryker

more so than data So I guess you can look at

it one or two ways who is more important to their

series or who makes the better science officer?

Because data makes the better science officer

Oh without a doubt without a doubt Spock is probably

more important to a series Steve, how do you

break this one down? I'm still not sure where

I go Well, I definitely see where Spock is more

important to his series. However, data has come

in just as much of handy just because of the

technological aspect throughout the series, whether

it be hacking into systems or his positronic

net. For instance, Think First Contact, would

Picard have gotten out of that by himself? Probably

not. He needed data. I mean... There's a lot

of I mean and I'm not saying that Spock hasn't

helped Kirk get out of life -and -death situations

because he has but I think the key thing would

between the two of them is one's actually alive

and one's not and The interactions that they

have between everybody not saying that data is

treated any less by his You know the senior crew

because it's not but at least in one season he

was but But I think that Spock overall has had

the most lasting effect on the entire franchise.

Yeah, I mean, I guess if you're going to take

just your generic people off the street and say

Star Trek and ask them to come up with, you know,

think of a name or think of a character from

Star Trek, people would probably come up with

Spock before they came up with Data. Well, I

mean, I think that most of the original crew,

despite people not really associating with them

as much, think that those are the most iconic

still just because I mean you say me up Scotty

or you know Kirk to Enterprise or you know You

know and then Spock is Vulcan, you know salute

so I mean it I definitely see that I mean, especially

you look at Spock and this kind of coincides

with the original series and kind of doesn't

and kind of coincides with the next generation,

but He's been in The Next Generation, as has

Kirk, as has Scotty, as has McCoy. And he's also

in The Rebooted Universe and in that original

series. I mean Spock's just he's had the longest

reach out of any of the original crew And I guess

although you I was making the argument that Spock

is more important to his individual series I'm

saying that from like a casting standpoint data

may be more important to his series from a writing

in a story standpoint as far as the different

types of Moral questions they were able to bring

up with data as a character on that show well

I definitely see that too just because he's he

kind of It was the the dilemma of what do you

consider life? Yeah, and the human the human

side of things although I mean not saying there

wasn't similar storylines for Spock, but they

definitely had they definitely Data allowed them

to go into areas that they wouldn't have been

able to do without that character How close are

you to making a decision birdman? Well, on one

hand, Spock is awesome. On the other hand, Data

did get the bang -tash -a -yar. That's true.

But Spock got Savick and got whoever the chick

was in the original series. In that case, Spock!

He won up some. Thanks for the power of sex appeal!

Matt, what do you think? What's making the ultimate

decision for you here against these two guys?

Honestly, one point that hasn't been brought

up is that I think on more occasions Data was

a threat to the Enterprise than Spock ever was.

There were a number of times Data once took over

the whole D by himself just to go see his dad

one more time and other situations like that.

You can argue the same point with Spock though

because he took over the original Enterprise

under Kirk's command to get Captain Pike adhering

to send him back to Talos IV. But you could reason

with Spock, whereas Data, if... Once he has a

program, he's not going to be able to divert

from it. No, but Spock could have diverted from

his whole setup, too, but he did it anyway. True.

And he's done similar things for, you know, like

his father and for, you know, other other reasonings

that he's kind of broken the code of Starfleet

to do what he thought needed to be done. and

data has done the same, and also in the same

regard. Both of them have been taken over and

manipulated in their minds before by other forces

within the Star Trek universe. So similarities

can be tossed around. So Matt, I guess what is

it? Is it the iconic more important to the series,

or is it who makes the better science officer?

Which way do you go? I'm just going to go with

Spock, just based on my human intuition. All

right, that's fair enough, Steve. Spock and Matt

Bergman your official vote with Spock also. Yeah,

I'm sorry data I know well I since the category

has already decided I am going to just throw

a vote out for data just because I don't feel

like this should be a clean sweep of a category

because these two guys are too similar there's

too many things going for each other and I'm

gonna go with who do I want to be my science

officer and in that case I'm gonna go with data

um but obviously the category will still go to

Mr Spock and I could also raise another point

for data he has a cat that's true and I like

cats so And Birdman, you like cats, so we can

share that. All right. Moving on to our fourth

category, another pairing of characters here.

And in this time, we are going with the chief

engineer. Interested to see what you guys have

to say about this. Scotty versus Mr. Geordie

LaForge. Matt, start this one off. These two

are obviously very iconic individuals. LeVar

Burton, all the beam me up Scotty stuff. Where

do you start to try to break this one down? Well,

I don't know like a part of me wants to just

be like well who Seems like they're better at

their job and I feel like in most situations

it feels like it's the TNG guy But at the same

time I feel like Scotty did a lot more thinking

on the fly Like, Jordy knew things by the books

and he did a lot of interesting things like the

time he loaded up that holo program with the

designer and bounced off of her to get new things.

But I feel like Scotty did a lot more. He seems

like the more down and dirty handyman type of

engineer. Well, this is kind of how I see it.

Scotty is more, not only is he down and dirty,

but he also Back in the 23rd century, there were

no other alternatives and you were out in deep

space by yourself. He had to come up with things

on the fly or kind of rig things up to work to

how they should be or close to how they should

be. Even as far as enhancing the Enterprise compared

to what Starfleet specs were. Whereas Geordi

kind of had to just maintain. And he had to make

modifications depending on the mission but Scotty

had to do it because They were out in the middle

of nowhere and they didn't have a choice I mean

he was the ultimate Starfleet mechanic or could

you flip it around and say that Geordi was possibly

Shouldering a bigger responsibility because he's

dealing with such a more massive system Geordi

had more support and had data True. Jordan had

help. Yeah, exactly. He had an entire staff in

engineering. Scotty had the three people. Scotty's

like, dammit, laddie, show up to work for once.

Yeah. I mean, think of... How often do you think

Scotty left engineering? I bet you he had a bunk

just off of the warp core. Whereas LaForge, he

had time to go be Sherlock Holmes and everything.

He had time to hang out in 10 forts. Scotty ain't

got time for that. He's got a ship to run. He'll

take a Scotch in engineering, please. Exactly.

OK, so if you have your own version of the enterprise,

who do you want to be your chief engineer, Dad?

Scotty, because A, he thinks on the fly. Two,

he doesn't need help, pretty much, because he

can figure it out for himself. He's resourceful.

And if he can't find a part, he can probably

build it or procure it somehow. Whereas Jordy,

as much as I love Mr. Reading Rainbow, he's...

Too much of a disadvantage. He's a 24th century

wimp What about the we haven't brought it up

yet? Does does the visor add any points to LaForge's

character? Makes it makes them look cool. He's

used it though to do stuff that Scotty wouldn't

be able to do true true While that may be true

It's also been a hindrance because I mean look

the Klingons got a hold of a code to the Enterprise

by piping into it and crash the ship Geordi shows

the evil of Google Glass. He does. Steve, are

you picking Scotty as your engineer? We're assembling

a dream team crew here. I would definitely take

Scotty because, I mean, think about it this way.

If you're stuck with no life support and you

have the option of being locked in a transporter

for 75 years with the option to possibly live,

I think I'd take that option. And Scotty, I think,

knows how to do that, obviously, because that's

what made him survive. What about you, Matt?

Yeah, gotta give it to Scotty. Alright, this

one I will allow to be a clean sweep because

as much as I love Geordie LaForge, like he is

one of my favorite characters in the whole franchise,

but if it comes down to actually who do I want

to, and that's how I broke it down, I guess,

to the science engineer. Who I wanted as my science

engineer would be Data. Who I want as my engineer

is the guy that can make something out of nothing

that doesn't matter how much book learning you

do. He's gonna know. which thing to hit, which

thing to put together. So I got to go with Scotty

on this one as well. So a clean sweep for the

original series in this category. And we will

move on to. I know some people were these positions

and some people weren't and as the series went

on people changed positions But we're kind of

looking at the navigators slash security officers

of the two crews So we're looking at Chekhov

and Sulu for the original series We're looking

at wharf and Tashiar for the next generation.

Is it a disadvantage that Tashiar dies? I don't

know but Birdman, how do you how do you start

looking at these four? She was killed by black

goo She was killed by Tar. It depends on when

you look at these guys and the main reason I

bring that up is the original series It was a

pretty serious time of, I wouldn't say war in

the Federation, but there were constant skirmishes

with like Klingons and Romulans, Tholians, you

know, basically all sorts of really bad shit.

And whereas the Enterprise era, the Enterprise

primarily was an exploration and science ship.

Like it was pretty much a peace vessel. However,

that being said, war of Klingon race, first Klingon

in Starfleet Academy, could you argue Star -

starship combat experience be kind of light all

things considered and then you look at checkoffs

experiences young and inexperienced you could

probably get up pretty good parallel might be

between uh... check off and war sulu uh... as

a security officer and uh... sorry navigator

sorry uh... once again he's got that uh... that

think on the fly thing and uh... I do appreciate

that. I really do. Then again, Tashiar, it's

Tashiar. And I know a lot of people like Tashiar.

I couldn't stand her as a character. She had

to bring her back. I couldn't stand her as a

kid. I can't stand her when I rewatch episodes

of that show. I don't know what it is. So for

me, it's it's literally can is worth good enough

to beat out Chekhov and Sulu. You just hate Denise

Crosby. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I liked her better

as a Romulan, I guess. Sudo Romulan, whatever

you want to call it. Oh, you mean her daughter?

Whatever. But. Man, Worf as a security officer

is hard to beat. As far as, like, if you're looking

at it from a Navigator standpoint, obviously

you gotta go check up on Sulu. But man, Worf

is just so darn cool. Matt, how do you do this

one? I don't know, I feel like it's unfairly

stacked. Because, like, when I think of Navigators,

I think Sulu versus Wesley. Yeah, you could throw

him in there and take Toshihara out, I guess,

if you wanted to. No, don't do it. It won't be

fair. Take Wesley out of everything. Oh, come

on! He's got the Lawson sweater! He likes the

Wesley crushers. I got nothing against Will Wheaton.

Like, I think he's a fine actor, kind of a douchebag

in person, but a fine actor. I think the problem

with that one was all script and they wanted

to force him in. But that's neither here nor

there in this category. Like, I don't know. I

really, I really like Tasha Yar and Worf, but

I also really like Sulu. You know, like, can

you compare Warf's bat left skills versus Sulu's

fencing skills? I mean, they both pulled out

weapons on their ships in various times. They're

interesting guys. It's a hard one. Sulu looks

a lot cooler and goofier when he's got his fencing

sword out, though. Yeah, man. Shirtless fencing

down the halls. That's what I want. My ship.

Fucking A. Steve, what do you think? While I

do like the original series cast See, I'm kind

of torn because there's one I like on either

side More than more than the other Is that Sulu

and Worf? Or Chekhov and Worf? It's Chekhov I

don't like Tashiar at all. I never have. I was

glad when they Decided to kill her off and put

Worf in her position Think it was like I mean

it was the line the same times that they got

rid of Dr. Crusher and then they brought in Pulaski

and then they were like, oh we screwed up You

know, so I Think that it it caused wharf to become

a better character that again he get to touch

two series instead of just one So what's that

Possibly a third isn't there isn't he supposed

to be trying to head up his own new? He's been

trying that for about four years now. Yeah, I

think it's getting some headway though So they

say That's the same, you know Chekhov is doing

renegades and he's an admiral on that so yeah,

there is that option too, um But no, I mean,

I think that it makes For a better case for at

least wharf I think because he's kind of the

jack -of -all -trades. He does both of their

jobs and one He does, you know kind of the navigation

tactical and communications all in one spot Plus

he was their security officer if it was wharf

and O 'Brien would it be better? Probably but

O 'Brien get shipped over after like third season

name in the first season He was just Transporter

Chief, and that's it. Yeah, well, and he also

did a little bit of here and there and, you know,

navigation stuff, but they, they booted his ass

pretty quick. Plus, he was always the O 'Brien

must suffer, so that means if he's on your ship,

bad shit's gonna happen. Pretty much. So as soon

as they get rid of him, then, because Worf would

say, would you like me to fire? About every,

you know, time that he was at Tactical. And Picard's

like, no. So how are we gonna vote in this one?

I'm still I don't know if it's just which single

person out of those four is the best then it's

warf for me But if I have to pick a team of warf

and Tasha or check off and Sulu that becomes

a lot harder Matt How are you gonna vote in this

one? First I mean, you know, it's fine. I don't

know. I think I'm I like Tasha more than anyone

else here, huh? Like I feel like I like the the

strong female lead on the bridge always there

Like, I think she was great from a writing standpoint

and I liked her as a character. Though I think

that Worf became a better character once she

died. I wish there was a better option. Like,

maybe getting her in trouble and putting her

in a different place or something. I don't know.

You know, I don't know. Like, George Takei is

one of my favorite people in the world. So it's

hard to vote against him. But I think I'm gonna

have to go with TNG on this. Alright, Birdman,

how do you think? I'm going classic series here.

Alright, Steve, it's one to one so far. Son of

a bitch. Because I like the one team more, but

I like the one character more. I'm gonna have

to go with the dwarf here. Alright, that makes

it hard for me now. Man. I'm in a similar situation.

Do you go with the team or do you go with the

one person? I mean, I understand what you're

saying about Tashiar and she is good from a writing

standpoint. Something just rubbed me wrong about

her. I don't know if it was the actress or the

appearance or what it was. Can't put my finger

on it. Never have been able to. Man, who do I

want as my navigators and security officers?

I like the dynamic, I think. Even though I don't

like Tashiar, I like the dynamic of the two.

And I like wharf as my security officer, so I'm

gonna go with the next generation on that one

All right, let's get on to the next category

which would be the medical staff so for the original

series we have mr. McCoy dr. McCoy and nurse

chapel who appeared sporadically and then we

have the Alternating doctors of the next generation

Beverly crusher and Katherine Pulaski. I guess

we should start I want to start with crusher

and Pulaski. Which one did you prefer just amongst

those two Birdman? You see, I actually like Pulaski,

but Beverly Crusher is hotter. It's sad. That's

actually a factor for me. But the thing is, I

feel like McCoy and Chappell were more pioneers

in their time, whereas Crusher and Pulaski did

have the huge advantage of having Starfleet Medical

behind them and all the advanced tech, whereas

McCoy and chapel had to make it up as they went

along so I'm with you at times. I like Pulaski

better, too I kind of went back and forth on

which one of those but as far as a category I'll

get mine out of the way because I think this

is a slam dunk I think With or without nurse

chapel McCoy wins this one. Yeah Yep, but I think

it is interesting on who likes crusher and who

likes Pulaski better But I will cast my vote

now and let you guys continue talking Matt, what

do you think? Think Pulaski was the worst thing

to happen to next generation since Wesley crusher.

Oh man, but she didn't have a bitch in sweater

Yeah, see that puts her down even lower like

an episode though where she grows old it's so

kick -ass Yeah, I wish she would die. She didn't

die She was the one that ended up fixing wharf

right when he broke his legs or spine or whatever

Yeah, it's like that's the one thing she's got

to her credit But even then, she didn't think

it was going to work or whatever. Yeah. And she

had no hope and wharf and anything. I don't know.

I hated Pulaski. Crusher was great, but I, you

know, I have mixed feelings about the whole tension

between her and Picard, like the will they get

married? Won't they get married? That was annoying.

I wish they wouldn't have done that as well.

Will they wear pants? Will they not? It was like,

I don't know. I think it is like unquestionably

has got to go with bones, man. Is that unanimous?

Yeah. Well, I mean, the one thing that Pulaski

made her really hateable is she hated data. She

really did. She had a mission to destroy data.

She's like, I hate you, you stupid android. She

was kind of a racist in a weird way. She was.

I think I liked her because there was no fear

of just going with the whole love angle with

anybody. She was just like, F you. He liked her

because she was unlovable? No, because she made

it so that there wasn't going to be a love story

line in that episode if it was dealing with her.

Because she hated everybody? Yeah. She's like,

you suck. But no, I'd have to go with McCoy because

he was the medical badass coming up with solutions

to problems that nobody had ever heard of before.

Right. And even in the comics he continues to

do so because they had one where they had Bashir,

Crusher, Pulaski and the EMH and they couldn't

figure out some disease that came about from

the original series time and Starfleet Medical

was wiped of the resources of it and Bones happened

to have it on his medical tricorder that he stole

from Starfleet that he never turned back in when

he quit. All right, so it's unanimous for the

original series as far as the medical staff,

which leads us to our last grouping of the actual

crews of these two ships, and that is the communications

members, which would be Lieutenant Uhura and

Deanna Troy. Birdman? The space cheerleader or

captain, we have an incoming message from Starfleet.

Yeah Well, hold on we can't we can't The other

one the other one was was sleeping with two of

her comets Hold on. Hold on. We can't use the

word Useful and not talk about how useful Deanna

Troy was every time Picard needed to be like

Mule screen for a second. What is that guy thinking?

Well, she can't read their thoughts she can read

their emotions, right Good poker player can do

that. No, but she was very good at allowing the

obvious to be stated There's a lot of hate for

Deanna Troy here, I mean like her as a character,

but come on she was very useful Yes, I candy

on the bridge see I don't see her as I candy

at all Matt. I do hate her, too No, she was actually

one of my favorite characters in that whole series.

I don't even feel like talking right now I don't

get it I Mean when you're when you're a beta

Zed that is that is a one -up Is to have one

of them on your crew? Yeah, her mom was annoying.

It's all get out. Although good, but she was

also nurse chapel, right? I understand and obviously,

you know big -time connections to the whole thing

Also the computer right and the computer so her

best role yet I don't know it's annoying as storylines

at times were with Riker and some other things

like she's very useful to have on your crew compared

to your who just basically was the definition

of communications person only. Although I guess

in the reboot maybe you could make an argument

for the new character but this is just the classic

series so we can't go there. Matt defend Deanna

Troy I'm doing a bad job of it. Yeah I don't

know. Well, I personally, the opposite of the

crusher Picard love interest, I liked Ryker Deanna.

See, that I did like. That'll give you... I think

that was well executed and it was, you know,

whenever there was a step forward or a step backward,

I felt like it was actually, you know, a real

story, not just like, well, that's what we're

doing this week. And I don't know, I like impacts

as an idea. I think that's a fun concept. I don't

think it gets enough time in fiction, so adding

it as a character that's usually on the bridge

is great. Would you rather have a communications

person that's strictly gonna give you communication

or a communication that also can read those feelings,

et cetera? Like, it's the same person, but then

she has an advantage to me. This is no contest.

Well, I mean if you're going strictly from a

useful point of view of what was shown on screen

between the two series Then I think it's no contest,

but that's not what we're doing here necessarily.

I Mean there were there's more to it and you

know Troy had the the largest wardrobe of anyone

on the D Like she had two different like I don't

know yoga outfits She had that awesome dress

the the blue one then she had her dress dressy

uniform that wasn't the dress uniform space cheerleader

so you guys are going for the the bland lieutenant

you're her she may be bland but she's got tech

skills what can you do dude diana you don't even

have a console in front of you she doesn't need

one Alright, so are we gonna have a split category

on this? Steve, are you voting for the original

series on this? As useful... I mean, they both

have their different uses, but I'm gonna have

to vote TNG on this one, I think. Oh. Alright.

Dot, are you going with the original series?

That's right! That's right. Alright, you're the

only one. I like Ohura! I'm progressive! I like

Ohura, too. I just like Deanna more. That's where

I don't necessarily like either one, but if I

had to pick one on my crew, it's gonna be Troy

She's more helpful to me. I Put Dax Yeah, yeah,

you know what Dax should be in this cuz arguably

she she at least has cool tech skills and as

generations of experience true We couldn't put

everybody. We had a lot of other people we could

have put in. Not room for everybody. Including

this other one who I have down as category eight.

Who's the better number one bridge officer? William

Riker? Or the one that didn't exist for the original

series? Now I know a lot of people would say

this is where we could have had Spock versus

Riker as the second in command type thing. But

really there's no comparison for Riker in the

original series. If anything Kirk is a closer

comparison to Riker. Exactly card in my opinion

as far as like a personality age You know all

the different traits that go into Kirk and Riker

are more similar and Picard's almost like the

the dad Picard's almost of a league of his own

whereas Riker is Well for one his idol was Captain

Kirk, right? Which is shown on numerous occasions

plus He's got that same kind of grittiness and

kind of gamble and kind of, you know, the way

that he carries himself is almost like Kirk,

but it's more refined. We couldn't compare him

to Kirk because that was already going to be

Picard, and I didn't want to compare him to Spock

because we already had data, so I really didn't

have anybody to compare Riker to, but I at least

wanted to acknowledge that he existed. Birdman,

is there anybody I should have put him against?

You could argue. Chakotay from Voyager. That

would not fit this debate. The original series,

though, there's really nobody. Yeah. Like, I'm

trying to think here from the original series.

Well, what if we looked at the movies? Is there

anybody even in there? I don't really remember

anybody that could compare to that. Kirstie Alley.

Nobody. I mean, Decker. Kirstie Alley. There

we go. So that would have been an unfair advantage

and Next Generation would have got a slam dunk

on this one. But she was in Cheers. Does his

existence give... I mean, this isn't a category,

so to speak, but does his existence in The Next

Generation give a point towards that series in

general as a character type that we didn't have

in the original series? .com .com .com . Would

almost argue so even though I don't want to just

for the fact that They had the same amount of

cast You know the seven and then if you count

Wesley, it's eight, but I try not to But They

it seems like the next generation crew made more

use of their cast of their seven Whereas the

original series did not Thanks an amount of episodes

thing though because yeah, I mean I I get that

too But I think that also a lot of it Evolved

when Roddenberry was no longer involved with

the series when Berman kind of takes the helms.

Yeah Okay, so that's just for fun. I just wanted

to at least acknowledge that right here exists

So we don't seem silly for not having him involved

in this debate somehow even though we're not

comparing him against anybody Moving away from

the actual cruise a little bit obviously both

series deal with a variety of alien species,

enemies, etc, etc. There was a couple pretty

significant ones though that exist in both that

I wanted to compare here. So we're comparing

the old versions, the original series versions

of these guys, to the next generation versions

and we're talking about Klingons and Romulans

because they are probably the two most prominent

ones that exist in both. Do we like the old Klingons

and the old Romulans better or the newer Klingons

and Romulans going when it comes to these two

series. Matt, how do you how do you start comparing

these two or is or does Klingons go one way and

Romulans go the other way? Well, you got a good

point. I don't know. I like I feel like they

were fleshed out a lot more in Next Generation.

That might be because there's more time and then,

you know, all that. It definitely looks cooler

in the Next Generation. That's a budget thing,

though. That's hard to compare. Um, but you know

at the same time the Klingons in the original

series had that storyline of they look so much

like humans they can blend in and Like I can't

think of a parallel to the next generation and

I like that story sometimes dressed up like Klingons

Yeah, yeah, I mean the humans could always just

graft things to their faces and do things like

that But they were like, hey wharf dress up like

a Klingon What? Nothing. Continue. Geez. I don't

know, I got nothing. Warf, looking like a man.

Birdman, how do we start trying to compare these

two? I felt the Romulans were more effective

in the new series. They're more of a subtle threat.

Whereas in the original series, in my opinion,

they were a whole lot of who gives a fuck. Whereas

the Klingons in the old series, they were more

of a military threat, and they are still very

much a military threat in the next generation.

You can negotiate with these ones. There are

ones who want to talk. For me, I might go to

what he was saying, and obviously there's more

episodes, so it's easier probably to flesh out

these races in the next generation. But to me,

the Romulans, if we're comparing the two, are

a closer comparison between the original series

and the next generation. Like, I can't separate

them as much. Whereas the Klingons... the storylines

that they did with the Klingons in the Next Generation,

and maybe it's an unfair advantage since you

have a Klingon as part of your crew and all the

different things you can do involving Worf, but

those are some of my favorite episodes of the

Next Generation are the ones including the different

Klingon relationships and power struggles, etc.

So I can't necessarily say a clear cut winner

in Romulans, but for me, I like the Next Generation

Klingons way better than the original series.

Steve, what do you think? I like I like them

for different reasons. I like the Romulus just

I like their style and how they look better in

the original series Better although they are

more more militant in the future Thinking that

they're better than everybody else whereas the

Klingons still do but they hold uphold their

honor and Whereas in the original it doesn't

seem like they had one had an honor system. It

was more of just you f'd with me I'll come after

you. But I have to argue also that the Klingons

look cooler in the 24th century and there's a

lot more going for them. Does anybody want to

make an argument before we try to get votes for

either side? Well, speaking on the honor code

thing, like, you would hear half of the Klingons

of Next Generation talk about honor, and then

the other half just ignore it entirely. Like,

that was a constant thing of, uh, that guy's

got no honor. It's like, yeah, and he's winning

right now. Right. Like, that happened a lot.

I don't know my vote only like I said not for

the Romulan standpoint because I think it's almost

a washer It's too close to call but for Klingons

it swayed me to vote for next generation in this

category overall Birdman, what do you think?

Honestly, I'm gonna have to go with the new the

new kind of generations Simply more or less because

of the Romulans Okay, because like I said, there

are more subtle threat. They've infiltrated the

Federation deep they could literally be anywhere

at any time. It wasn't even more of a subtle

threat, but it was a more subtle threat, but

also a more serious threat. Yeah, I mean, their

ships are massive. Their spy network is unparalleled.

I mean, the Romulans, honestly, they're pretty

badass, whereas in the original series, ooo,

cloaking device. I don't know, although... Like

I said Klingons in the original series they were

they were a pretty big threat to the Federation

now not so much But yeah, I'm gonna give my vote

right now. I'm saying no. All right The classic

Romulans used to have like a giant bird painted

on this hull of their ship. Yeah You gotta give

them points for that shit, right? Is it enough

points for you to cast your vote for the original

series? Giant bird and maybe give them a space

mullet and they could like mud in the space.

I'd be down I'm gonna give it the next generation

for all the things Birdman said. All right, Steve

I'm gonna have to go next generation just because

the the sheer Amount of ships the coolness to

them the the Klingons. I mean Overall, it's it's

just a better pick. All right, so a clean sweep

for the next generation Which brings us to our

halfway point in category number 10 here. Looking

away from people for a minute, we've compared

the ships, but let's get right down to it. For

the most part, most of the action took place

on the bridge. Which show had the cooler bridge?

I know there's different versions of them, and

you can break them down however you'd like to,

but what show has a better bridge, Steve? Now

does it have to be the original series bridge,

or can it be one of the original series movies

bridges? Either I say technically we're going

to the series against the series. OK, maybe we

should stick with that. OK, because it's it's

even that it's still a hard choice between choosing

film to film. Look at it this way. Which bridge

would you rather spend sitting for eight hours

on? Which is more comfortable? You can't really

sit on the next generation one unless you're

one of the senior most crew members Well, actually

that's not entirely true those cabinets underneath

all the terminals and the sides and the back

They actually pull out his seats And it's a hell

of a lot brighter so you wouldn't need glasses

for eyestrain So I think I'm gonna have to go

to next generation just because the the bridge

just looks more comforting more relaxed And there's

more than one way out. Yeah. It also just looks

more intimidating. If you get on the view screen

and you're about to have some type of interaction

with one, if the view screen comes up and it's

the original series bridge, you're like, what

is this hodgepodge? I'm not afraid of this. If

the next generation one comes up, you're like,

dang, son, these guys are serious. Like, I'm

not messing with these guys. I screwed. Yeah.

So I agree with you guys. I'd be going with the

next generation bridge as the one I would prefer

to be a part of. What about you, Burban? Yeah,

definitely. Because once again, if you look at

the bridge from the original series, there's

one way on that bridge and one way off. So I

don't know how you'd even get to the bathroom.

Which, yeah, where's the bathroom on this thing?

Well, it's on deck 17. Also, this one gave you

quick access to... The captain's ready room?

The captain's ready room. Well, on the other

side, it is the bathroom. Okay. It seems to be

on the next generation bridge, you have got a

lot more... custom ability plus you can obviously

you can run the entire ship from the bridge you

can run engineering from there you it just seems

like there's more more control options on the

next generation plus those chairs look really

comfortable you can adjust everything on the

original bridge those don't look like adjustable

chairs and more stuff happened on the next generation

bridge yeah you know as like other characters

outside of the crew showing up yeah the board

Exactly. All sorts of crazy crap happened on

that bridge. Plus, you've got that wonderful

skylight looking in the space. Right. Crack it

with a hammer. Yeah. They all die. All right.

So clean sweep on category 10. Sticking with

objects and things like that. It's category 11.

We're going to move into just weapons in general.

Now, you can look at this as phasers. You can

look at this as the actual enterprise weapons.

You can look at this as the villains weapons

that they came across. Just overall, if you're

going to watch the entire series, of both shows

which one features cooler weapons i like the

phaser rifle from the new series but the original

one looks so sci -fi as to be really stupidly

badass because it looks like the ultimate giant

phaser ray gun right uh but the weapons of that

era were because they were more primitive in

some ways they were more disruptive i mean Think

about the Klingon Blaster from Star Trek 3, when

it just disintegrated people. Yeah. I wouldn't

want to be shot by that. Fuck disruptors. Whereas

in the next generation, phaser and disruptor

hits are more survivable. They're almost a little

bit more civilized. Well, that's because the

90s hit and they had a different government set

the phasers to stone. In the 60s, you could kill

people. Now, are we also including starship weapons

in here as well? In that case, the next generation

quantum torpedoes, Nuff said. If we're also going

to talk about weapons, we can also talk about

armor, a blade of armor, which Janeway brought

back from the future. But if we're talking strictly

next generation, because that would be technically

in that timeline, if you really want to stretch

it out, because she was back in Nemesis. So the

technology is there. um trying to think of other

big ass weapons uh well you have the i mean think

about it this way you have the tractor beams

uh that are more advanced you have the deflector

dish um you have uh you know the tacan pulses

you have the the borg cubes that are nanite weapons

the nanites yep um you have the ability to adapt

and prevent So, I mean, I think it's going to

be pretty obvious since the next generation is

so much further in the future that the technology,

et cetera, is going to be there to allow for

better technologically sound weaponry, et cetera.

But what if you're going about just how each

series used weaponry, weapons? You could argue

the original series was more brutal because of

things like the Doomsday Machine. You never saw

a planet killer on a scale outside of a bore

cube in the next generation at least Well, maybe

that tin man thing if it turned evil, but um

Yeah, because the next or the original series

had a lot more like I said Brutal weaponry when

you really think about it Plus there are a lot

of blades used in the original series if I remember

I remember a lot of stabbing So I Don't know

it it it's hard I would not want to get shanked

in the 23rd century, but I sure as hell don't

want to get shot in the 24th so Wasn't it against

uh, well didn't kirk make a like a piecemeal

blunderbuss when he was fighting like a garner

once something like that Yeah, I forgot about

that. We got to count that weapon because that

was awesome That's true like explosive crystals

and john jammed him down a bamboo shoot and shot

a dude Yep, mccard never did that He just turned

it into a weapon I don't know. I think the the

classic standard issue phaser Like, I like that

the original series, it looked like a gun. Whereas

the other one, it looked like, I don't know,

could have been a scanning device. It could have

been anything. And I guess that that's, you know,

probably a possible thing in the future that

not all guns are gonna look like guns. But like,

I don't know. I like the pistol aspect of the

old one. So is your vote for the original series,

Matt? I don't know. I don't have a vote. Steve,

what do you think? How are we going in this?

Which series uses the weapons better? Which series

had better weapons? How do you want to go there?

Well, I do like the styles of some of the original

series stuff. I think I'm going to have to go

TNG on this one just because of the technological

advancements. I mean, although I don't like their

hand phasers in the 24th century compared to

the 23rd century, I do agree on the same thing

as the rifles with Dodd there. Original series

ones look like dogs not compared to the TNG ones

But I I just think overall it's a hands -down

TNG I mean you have the original series not only

were they brutal with their weapons, but They

they use their phasers from the enterprise to

light a friggin mountain. I mean torch it but

Birdman agree or disagree I agree Matt back to

you. Yeah, I'll give it the TNG Although the

homemade blunderbusses are major points. Alright,

that makes it three clean sweeps in a row for

the next generation. Let's see what happens as

we get back into some people. We've talked about

the crews and we talked about some of the races.

We didn't get into specific villains. So which

series had the best villains? We had people like

Gorn, General Chang. Khan, Commander Kruse, Harry

Mudd in the original series and a bunch more

that I'm sure all you guys will want to mention

as we discuss this. Some of the main ones you

might think of for the next generation, Arbus,

that's the character that killed Tasha Yar. You

have the Borg Queen. You have Q. He may be enough

to win this category alone. The Tura sisters,

as far as Klingons go. Lor, Data's brother. Which

series did you like the villains in better, Birdman?

TNG I felt they were more memorable. I mean out

of the original series. I can name General Chang

the Gorn con mud and Tremaine you asked me Who

I can name out of TNG I can rattle off like ten

And the other thing is we are somewhat cheating

here because the villains were coming up with

for the original series are technically from

the movies mostly Yeah, well the only one that's

not is is the Gorn con and Harry mud and the

Gorm is only one dude I know, it was one episode.

You got killed by a homemade blunderbuss. Keep

going with your thoughts, so you can name more

for the next generation. Does that make a surefire

thing for them? I think it does, plus the fact

that the villains outside, like, I think the

villains in TNG are more, they seem more like

a galactic threat. The Klingons are a regional

thing. You look at the Borg, something like that

could consume the Milky Way. Conceivably like

they eat everything the Borg could come at you

out of nowhere and Seemingly had no limits to

their reach and Q really didn't seem to have

a lot of limits to his reach either Not until

Voyager anyway Yeah, but that was so great about

Q is that like he was clearly the first villain

they ever fought But ultimately he was rooting

for humanity like if it wasn't for Q There was

no way the Federation was ever gonna be prepared

for the Borg Like him him throwing the enterprise

at the Borg way before they would have ever encountered

him is what allowed them to start their research

and everything That allowed them to fight. Yeah

Like and just think of like if you were to take

these and switch them right like Khan versus

Versus like Picard like he got duped by Kirk.

So how easily would he get duped by Picard? But

then like Q versus Kirk. I Think that I made

for an interesting story. Well, they would have

been Battling each other with with you know sarcastic

remarks. He would have just been having fun with

him. Yeah, and Kirk would too But I don't think

Kirk would have outsmarted Q No, he wouldn't

outsmarted him, but he would have gambled in

the right way just to piss him off and make him

leave He would have rikered him. Yeah So Matt

is your vote for TNG? Yeah, I don't think it's

really comparable Steve, you have two votes going

TNG. Are you going to be dissenting among them?

I think ultimately the original series only had

actually two real villains in Khan and Chang.

But again, the only recurring villain that the

original series had was Khan. You could argue

with races of people, but Harry Mudd is not really

a threat. I mean, Khan's really the only threat,

and he was only in one episode of the show and

one movie. I mean, that's... You look at TNG,

I mean, the Borg are in half the series after,

you know, season two or three. You have the Dura

sisters, which are a pain in the ass. You have

Lore, which shows up upteen times, and then you

have Q that shows up eight. So... And he's there

at the beginning of the end of the series. Right.

So, I mean, I would say overall that the next

iteration wins it hands down. Alright, fair enough.

Getting back away from the people then for a

little while, basically for the rest of the time

here. And this one, you do not have to look at

specifically just one crew versus the other crew.

Looking at the series as a whole, which series

had... The better style, the better uniforms,

the better clothing, the better outfits for either

alien races, you can talk about the actual crew

uniforms, which one you liked better. Just overall,

which series had better clothing? I know this

seems like a weird thing for us to be comparing,

but we're trying to break these down in any way

possible. Birdman, what do you think? How do

we break down the clothing? How quickly can you

get it off if you got to go to the bathroom or

you want to get some nookie? That's how I break

it down. That's one way to look at it. Not good

for TNG. Honestly, the original series uniforms,

I like how simple they are. The problem is telling

ranks, it's a little too much effort because

you have to memorize it, in my opinion. Well,

not only that, but it's like, here, let me see

your arm. Yes, please, show me your wrist, fine

sir. Raz, you know, look at my chest or look

at my arms. At least I can make it look like

I'm looking at your eyes. Functionally, I think

the TNG uniforms look better from a military

standpoint, because I think it's easier to identify

officers. Their pants were cooled down by the

shoes. Sorry. Yeah. Although the original series,

like I said, they would seem more comfortable,

like you could maybe get a uniform. an extra

size too big so you can fit into it. Whereas

the next generation, man, you better hope you

look good naked. Because it hugs in all the wrong

places. It was actually very distracting, oftentimes,

seeing Picard pull his uniform down because it

was starting to ride up inside. Yeah, like that

got a little tedious at times like he goes it's

writing my crack number one So you'd rather wear

the ones from the original series, but you like

the ones from the next generation better Is that

what I'm hearing? Yeah, although I do like the

later TNG era when they get as I call them the

corduroy uniforms Yes, I like those as well,

but I do like the later versions where they where

they were still the they were still colored,

but they weren't as jump soupy spandex, I guess,

like the ones with the collars. Yeah. Yeah. Those

I liked the best, but corduroys would be a second.

All right. Am I the only one who really hated

when the captain had like the the jacket with

the leather shoulders and the gray undershirt?

That was Pimpacard. Oh, I hated that outfit so

much. Kurt pulled that one once, too. But he

had the green shirt. Oh, no, I like I liked that

what he had like the green open chest shirt Like

I liked that Kirk and I hated gray shirt Picard.

I don't know. I hated gray shirt Picard as well

I like the green shirt Kirk, but Kirk look like

he spilled pea soup all over himself. I know

the color well if if Now if you were talking

movies, I would say the original series and the

next generation would be tied as far as because

I like the red jumpsuits and the the the next

generation corduroy clothes but um again I'd

probably still go with the original series for

that um but I think even for the the regular

uniforms I'm going the original series just because

it's simpler and you know they need to take the

damn shirt off and just take the damn shirt off

they don't have to like number one unzip me Good

point. Now here's a question for the panel here.

How do I put my pants on? Who had the most comfortable

casual clothes? Well, the next generation, because

they actually had clothes. Whereas the original

series had jumpsuits. Everybody in the future

has jumpsuits. I think in the future, obviously

you had a lot more options. Although there were

certain races I thought had Better you like I

like the older style Klingon uniforms. I know

I'm weird Because the the newer ones look like

they'd be very smelly and uncomfortable With

all the body armor and spikes whereas the other

original ones they look okay kind of like the

Romulans You know they they look like they're

completely uncomfortable wearing the padded shoulders.

They look you see When I look at a ramen from

the next generation, I feel like they'd feel

to the touch Like the inside of a pizza delivery

bag. It does look like that, like they're fuzzy

and they're just, they poke you. That is awkwardly

accurate. Like I just want to walk up to them

like, I'm sorry, sub commander, whatever the

hell your name is. Can I just touch you for a

minute? I'm just really curious. The card walks

up. It is static electricity. Fascinating. Mr.

Data, come here. But yeah, so I'm going for The

Next Generation. Matt, that means you're the

only vote I need here. Which clothing would you

prefer? Which one do you like better? I like

what Steve said earlier about if you were comparing

the movies, because I feel like just the uniforms

and the jackets from Wrath of Khan were some

of the coolest costume design in any Star Trek

ever. Oh yeah, easily. It was so good. So I'm

gonna go with the original and I know we're not

doing movies But I like the original outfits

like if you were to load up my Star Trek online

account If you could ever find it like all of

my crew were in original uniforms. All right,

good to pay for which is stupid Then in uniforms

we have a split two to two two for the next generation

two for the original series our first Tie in

as amongst the category goes Um, see how that

plays in effect later on going into category

14 You can compare the theme song. You can compare

the underlying themes the different musical scores

Which series did music better birdman? Tng beyond

the shadow of a doubt. However, that being said

the original theme is more iconic Um, and a lot

of people recognize all those star trek sound

effects because they're kind of part of the pop

the pop culture Identity is not the word, but

kind of the nerd social fabric. Like, you know

what a phaser is, you know what a photon torpedo

is. With Star Trek The Next Generation, yeah,

it's got really good sound design, but... I agree

with that point. I don't necessarily agree that

the original series has the more iconic theme

song, though. I don't know. If you were to pull

people on the street, they'd be able to tell

you, especially with that... I think more people

these days would be confused if you're taking

outside of the geek circles. Well, the funny

thing is is the original series theme they reincorporated

and all they did was just add a little bit to

the end and threw it into the new rebooted films.

a nap a guy knows more isn't always better unless

we're talking about full size vans. These beasts

do more than get you from A to B. They have so

much space. A man can live in it with shag carpeting

water bed and a sweet lava lamp. These mobile

abodes have all the comforts of home with quality

parts and plenty of Napa know how you can keep

the original tiny house running longer, stronger.

That's Napa I don't know. I just feel like if

you took just a general person and played both

themes, I think more people would identify the

Next Generation theme song before they could

figure out what the heck was going on with that

original one. But maybe that's just me. But I

think it would also depend on if they saw the

rebooted films, because if they saw the rebooted

films, then it's the same theme. Yeah. Next Generation

is the better theme, though. I like your original.

What do you say, Matt? But like, what if they're

Tenacious D fans, because Tenacious D plays the

original Star Trek with its completed lyrics

every concert. That's true. Have you guys heard

that version? No, but it sounds interesting.

Thankfully not! Oh, I'll put a link so you can

put it in the show notes, because it's worth

seeing for everybody ever. And we just lost our

viewership. Ouch! Don't hate on the D. I like

the D, I just don't want lyrics to that song

because it's so good. It's like singing the X

-Men theme song. Matt, who has a better theme

and who used music better throughout the series?

Well, I don't know, I feel like this, I can't

fairly judge this category because when I hear

just the first three or four seconds of Next

Generation, I'm like five again. And it's like

that, that was what I grew up with and that's

what it's going to be. Like, I like both themes.

I really do. I don't dislike both themes, but

the original series one gets on my nerves faster

than the next generation one does. Like, I can

just listen to the next generation theme in the

background, like on a somewhat softer tone and

just be like, yeah, this is awesome. Where the

original series eventually I'm gonna be like,

stop that. Fingernails on the chalkboard, please

stop. Ah, see, I enjoyed it. I like all Star

Trek themes, like from, well. Other than the

Enterprise. Yeah, I hate Enterprise. What was

that doing? I like that theme! We have now concluded

that Birdman has terrible theme song. No, I'm

just kidding. Totally kidding. Matt, where's

your vote going on the music? Next Generation,

but that's only Nostalgia. Fair enough. Steve?

Well, the funny thing about the Next Generation

is actually it's part of the motion picture theme.

Like, part of it. Okay. But anyways, I'm going

TNG. I just prefer the theme and the ship sounds

instead of here. I hear, you know, as it goes

past and I know it's something minute and stupid,

but plus just the tune to it is better and you

have instead of space, the final frontier. These

are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. I

don't know, it's more fun. Good point. Alright,

now for a category that I completely need your

guys' help on because I know nothing about it.

Which franchise has had the better games? You

can talk about board games, card games, video

games, arcade games, or however which way you

want to go with this. Which franchise has produced

better games? Where do we even start with this

one? They have good games there have been some

good games. I mean I can even talk about some

of the role -playing game stuff done by Fossa

last unicorn and decipher I think arguably the

best was probably the decipher one. Although

FASA did put together a pretty good board game

for the original series There was actually even

a Starship battles miniatures game very similar

to Star Wars Empire. That's out right now It's

like that little x -wing game um there were a

number of really good star trek original games

that came out on the pc in the 90s there was

like star feet academy i think it was called

star trek star trek command they were done by

interplay and like i said i think from 1997 98

till probably about 2003 2004 They're really

good set in the original kind of universe you

can plays the Romulans the gore and the Klingon

the Federation They were really really cool There

were games on the next generation like Star Trek

Federation really good game there is Federation

2, I think it was. I can't remember. I reviewed

one on my show like a year and a half ago. There

was also Star Trek Elite Force, which is more

Voyager but still set in the TNG era timeline.

There was a couple games on the Genesis. There

was a couple games on the Super Nintendo. There

were games on the NES. I would argue that the

better ones were the original series because

I think then you could explore the lore a little

bit more than the TV series could and You could

really expand upon it and you could mod them

because I remember playing Starfleet command

Modding the crap out of my ships. I could have

Starfleet Marines board Klingon ships and that

was so cool Although some of the later TNG games

did start to get it right, but I haven't played

one that's truly great. There was one that came

up for the 360 a couple years ago, or sorry,

not a couple years ago, probably about eight

years ago now. I can't remember what the hell

it was called, but it wasn't bad. Yeah, someone

else. I'm going for hours. I've never played

a next generation game. I remember renting or

getting from somebody or something, one of the

original series games, and it had to be either

for the Nintendo, the Super Nintendo, possibly

the Nintendo 64, but it was one of those early,

you know, first couple generations of Nintendo's

games, systems, and all I remember is that the

game was freaking impossible. I remember being

Kirk and then you had like your your your away

team Which you could pick I believe certain members

to join you Are you talking about the one where

you get under the planet and you get stuck in

the cave? Yeah, I still have that one the 25th

anniversary game. All I remember is it being

hard as hell Blue label, right? Yup. And I just

couldn't figure out what the heck I was supposed

to do. It was like one of those where you had

to get one thing in order to do something else

in order to do something else. Yeah, it was a

pain in the ass. Even the controls were difficult

on it. It was not a very good port. I think that

was a port of the Apple II version or the one

for the Mac anyway. That is the limit of my Star

Trek gaming experiences. Steve, you've played

a few games though, right? I've played some on

where you just command the ships. I've played

them all the way back to when they were like

DOS games. Okay. And various incarnations of

that as well. Is it true that the computer has

had better Star Trek games than like the actual

consoles? By far and away. Yeah, I would definitely

say so. The console versions pale in comparison

usually. I've had a few that have been entertaining

for about an hour, and the PC, I'm at least able

to keep entertained for a few until they get

too difficult to continue. Which games have you

had the most enjoyment from, Steve? Like, I've

played Star Trek Online. It's halfway decent.

I wouldn't say that it's perfect or anything.

I enjoyed back in the day the 25th anniversary

game until I got stuck in that cave. Because

I did figure it out pretty well. I just once

I got in that cave I screwed there was and I

guess there's a lot of episodes to that that

game Once you get past that point. I never did

and DOS is dead. So can't play it anymore Don't

know why I still have the disk I've also played

not necessarily on the computer. I've I've played

like the hero clicks board games Okay of the

the original series and like the the Federation

verse the Klingons and It's it's actually It's

actually quite fun Matt what's your gaming experience

when it comes to the Star Trek franchise? Have

you had you played any of the Star Trek games?

Maybe a dozen of them like I know I've played

at least a little bit of bridge commander I played

Ship Creator. I mentioned earlier I played the

MMO. I played Starfleet Command 1 and 3. I played

whatever that ground -based RTS was that was

really bad. Oh, man. I was waiting for someone

to mention that. I still have my disc somewhere,

and I bet I could find it in five minutes if

I needed it, but I would never need it. Like,

that thing was glitchy, even patched up, you

know, years later. to the point of being unplayable.

What about any gaming experience outside of video

games with Star Trek? Does anybody have any?

Oh, God, the role -playing games. As you guys

know, I'm a huge tabletop gamer. I do thesewordsareterrible

.com. There's my one shameless plug. There'll

be more, guys. For me, I'd say I like... There

have been different games for the various franchises.

Back in the mid -90s, there was a company called

Last Unicorn, and they produced games for the

original series, TNG, DS9. There was a Voyage

one, but it got canceled because the company

lost the license or they went out of business

or something. later 2000s done by decipher I

think it was and those ones I didn't mind although

I like fascist rules that those are the early

ones in the early early to mid 80s and it came

in a box set and I've always just like how fascist

rules they're really easy and quick to kind of

learn I mean kind of like Shadowrun if you're

familiar with that particular role -playing system

now I don't recall what system they use for that

but I do like the box art for it. I'm trying

to think here if there's anything superior about

any of the other non -video gamey stuff. There

is a Starship Battle game which is like I said

is played very similar to Star Wars Rebels or

Empire or whatever the hell it is right now and

that's a lot of fun and that's classic TNG. or

sorry, that makes no sense. And that's classic

series stuff and that's a lot of fun. I think

a lot of classic RPG for the classic series can

be a lot of fun because your imagination has

to do more because you don't have... You almost

have too much when you involve the stuff from

TNG forward with the kind of role -playing stuff,

because like I said, you can put in the Borg,

you can put in the Ferengi and all this other

stuff. And if you're not a decent game master

and storyteller, you can lose the storyline in...

the details like you transport to this and starbase

83 and the fringy whatever whereas with the classic

series i find you had the story came first because

you had a limited tool sets you really i found

you had to work a little bit harder now that's

a debatable point because you could make the

same argument for tng from a purely role -playing

standpoint but i would say classic series is

a little bit better on that side of gaming, because

I think they treat the franchise, this is a little

bit better, because it is so beloved. But one

of the things that no one talks about, and this

is a video game, there were two of these that

we haven't brought up, there's one called Borg

Assimilator, which is essentially a torture device.

You grip a stick and it gives you this electric

shock. It's like you're being assimilated, and

you have to hold on for as long as you can. And

the other one was an Elite Forces phaser rifle

light gun game that was in the arcades. Wow.

That was pretty friggin' cool. But overall, if

I had to say classic series wins here, because

I think the era forced you to be more creative,

and the video games were treated better. Fair

enough Matt, what do you think as far as the

overall games go which which franchise do you

think has the better selection? Well, I feel

like it's unfair as far as my vote because my

friends would never play the card games with

me and though I I've you know Had a regular rb

group, you know all my life. They're all like,

well, you know, we'll do D &D but Star Trek rp

is too nerdy So I haven't had too much experience.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it's the opposite I

have very interesting friends, let's say. So,

like, I never got to experience anything but

the video games, and I don't know, I feel like

the next generation video games, you know, since

it was closer to the video game era, were treated

better. So I'm going to say next generation,

though I probably would have more fun playing

the other ones. Steve, what do you think? I'm

going to go... We have one vote for each. I'm

going T... NG. Alright. Two votes for TNG. I

will simply revert back to the fact that first

of all I know Birdman plays a shit ton of games

and he voted for the original series. And second,

the only game I've ever played for any of them

was the original series. So even though it was

hard as crap, frustrating, and not very rewarding.

I will cast my vote for the original series,

which makes it another tie. All right, moving

on to the 16th category. We're almost done, folks.

Only a few more to go. 16th category, we can't

break down the series without breaking down the

movies that came from the series. So this is

our one chance to really delve into the movies

a little bit. Which franchises had the better

overall movies? Obviously for the original we

have The Motion Picture, The Wrath of Khan, The

Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, The Final

Frontier, The Undiscovered Country, and I guess

you could then think about the recent reboot.

And for the next generation you have Generations,

First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis. Matt,

how do you break down the movies for each franchise?

Well... I think with TNG, everyone has their

opinions. I think with the original series, everyone

has the same opinion, which is that half of them

are bad. That said, I think in a lot of respects,

some of the older series movies are more known

than the older series, but that might just be

a time factor since I was born after almost every

one of the movies were done for the original

series. and the series had been off the air for

20 years. Yeah, I do think you're right though.

There's usually more of a universal accepted

opinion about with the original series that this

movie's bad, this movie's good, this movie's

bad, this movie's good. Whereas the next generation

movies, there's a lot of back and forth. A lot

of people will like a certain movie and a lot

of people will hate a certain movie. Birdman,

what do you think about the movie franchises

of each one? I think... Arguably, and this is

obviously my opinion, with TNG, the one everybody

says is awesome is First Contact, right? Yeah.

When you ask people what's the best original

series movies, you get a bunch of different opinions

because they're frankly better. Wrath of Khan

is a film classic, and that's a movie I actually

call a film not a movie and that meant that to

me it means it's a step above your average popcorn

flick um you get such a great chemistry in almost

every single movie because that cast is so good

together i mean voyage home is the star trek

movie for non -star trek people it draws people

in you don't need to know sweet and crap all

about star trek and it's still fun NUCLEAR WESSELS!

TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM! DOUBLE DUMBASS ON YOU!

Oh, man. There is some... Okay. I know some people

really hate certain next generation films, but

overall, I enjoy all of the next generation films

to different levels. Insurrection? I even enjoy

Insurrection. Very terrible. Maybe at a different

level, but I enjoy them all, whereas there is

some of the original series movies that are just...

Awful. The first one is what they originally

used for torture in Guantanamo Bay. And that's

not the only awful one amongst them. Come on.

Final Frontier is goofy because what does God

need with a starship? That's hilarious. That

is one of the worst movies ever. Why does Shatner?

Dancing in the desert should just be an animated

gif somewhere It's hilarious, but you got over

actually doing something If you include the reboots,

I guess that's not fair but since there hasn't

been any reboots for the next generation yet

But I think the reboots are really good no matter

what everybody else says about them I have really

enjoyed both of the film so far in this new chapter

of the original series so that there's definitely

more movies to pick from so I guess even if you

take the three or four shitty movies out from

the original series and you add the reboots in

you're still left with a bunch of good movies

so there's definitely more volume I don't know

Steve what do you think? In the Darkness was

crap though man. Which one? In the Darkness was

crap. I disagree. I agree. It was a cobbled together

piece of shit that was... We're not getting into

that, because we've gotten into that. Yeah, Captain

Robocop, so that I will give you. We've gotten

into that before. I will forever disagree with

your guys' opinion on Into Darkness. But, Steve,

we haven't got your opinion overall, which...

Well, being that that's a reboot, it doesn't

count in this category, so... Well, I would say

that... I have... I mean three out of the the

four TNG films I enjoy I will argue that that

first contact is the best of the TNG and I almost

argue that Nemesis for some reasons and Generations

for some reasons I Generations the only good

part about it is the beginning is Captain Kurt

That's just that's just the whole movie for me,

but it's a bitch way for the enterprise to go

out to Yeah, because Troy was at the controls.

The Enterprise was killed by Google Glass. Yep.

It's... UGH! There's just as many moments from

The Final Frontier and The Motion Picture. Well,

The Motion Picture was just a piece of shit anyway,

and then you get a figure two that it came out

after Star Wars. So they were competing. Don't

ever watch those two movies back -to -back, by

the way. Don't ever watch star trek the motion

picture and then any star wars film back to back

or The motion picture was just too damn long

and it was just I couldn't tell, I couldn't even

appreciate it barely until I got older and even

then I still don't like it. I think Birdman does

bring up a good point though, if you were taking

which movie out of all of them gets the best

acclaim, Wrath of Khan is definitely set on a

pedestal above any other Star Trek film that's

ever been made. I'll tell you why. Because it's

because it was actually well written. There was

some gravity to it as well because when Spock

died that was a game changer I Mean, it's like

like films today where they don't actually kill

any main character. Yeah, and they get saved

by magic blood Sorry, I had to I'm a horrible

person you are it's okay, but the right guy said

Khan and that film and the wrath of Khan Let's

get into some more nitpicks on a new movie. I

think I enjoy more of the original series films

overall. I just, I find that I enjoy Wrath of

Khan, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, and Undiscovered

Country. And for me, because Wrath of Khan and

Undiscovered Country are my top two in that whole.

I mean, I like Voyage Home too, but those are

my top two out of the series. I find that it

trumps TNG in this category. Fair enough and

Birdman you're voting for the original series

as well. Absolutely Just the original cast has

better chemistry though. My favorite Star Trek

movie is first contact One movie doesn't make

it the best Matt. What do you think I? Don't

feel like it's as cut and dry for me as it is

for everyone else Like I mean, I love all of

the the next generation movies Don't know some

of my earliest full -form memories are about

watching insurrection on VHS in my parents bedroom

cuz I didn't have a VHS player when I rented

it Which is not a sentence you can say much anymore

but like I Don't know wrath of Khan is iconic

Like I think still today if you hear the word

Khan everyone goes to that movie, even if they've

never seen it just for the quote That's true.

Well the other thing too not to not to cut in,

but the Wrath of Khan, that was deep, plus it

brought back a villain from the original series.

Also, I find that the undiscovered country had

gravitas as well because, for one, it didn't

have to do with whales, but it had to do with

saving a species so they could stretch their

faces. But the undiscovered country stopped interstellar

war between the Klingon Empire in the Federation

True That's my favorite though, yeah, I think

I need to rewatch the old ones personally like

all of them just in order There's so many - I've

heard a lot of bad things about Three. Three's

hilarious! Come on, Doc Brown as a Klingon! I

actually don't mind that one as much as... Man,

One -Five. I really don't like Undiscovered Country

either. But I think of it this way. If you had

to sit me down and say... I'm not gonna tell

you which one, but we're gonna watch a Star Trek.

film from the classic series or a star trek next

generation film i'm always going to pick the

next generation film or if you said you're going

to have to watch all of them one through you

know six or one through four i'm going to pick

the next generation films to watch ten times

out of ten but if you were asking me if we're

comparing it to the series i guess and this is

the way i'm going to cast my vote the next generation

films i don't need them because the series was

so good whereas for me the original series movies

are better than the series most of the time like

they add a lot more to the series i know that's

happening after the fact but i mean too if you're

looking at it as an overall franchise they add

so much more to that than the next generation

films do um if that makes any sense whatsoever

Um, it does in my head, so I'm going with that.

No, I'm gonna have to agree with you 100 % because

I feel like the next generation movies, at best,

all they are is a longer episode. It's like a

deleted scene on a film. It's like, oh, you love

this series? Here, watch this little bonus. Yeah,

it's like, like, there's no, you know, some of

them don't even have, like, the moral quandaries

that were so huge in TNG. Some of them just feel

like more action movie than... It's just, we

didn't get quite enough of that group, so let's

see some more of them. Whereas... to me you can't

take the original series movies out of the if

you take them out of the equation then not as

many people are still talking about the original

series in my opinion because some of those movies

meant a lot to a lot of people so so that's the

reason i'm going to cast my vote for the original

series even though i would always watch the next

generation films over them um i'm 100 with you

for exactly the same reasons All right, so that

is a clean sweep for the original series when

it comes to movies, and luckily we, for the most

part, avoided any tirades and debates on the

reboot. So that's a positive, that's a win. Going

into the 17th category here, which franchise

is the most Wotable. Here's a fun one for you.

So you got Khan, the scream there for the original

series. Fascinating for Mr. Spock. Mr. Spock's

all over the place. Live long and prosper. That's

highly illogical. The needs of the many outweigh

the needs of the few or the one. He's dead Jim

or I'm damn it Jim or I'm a doctor not a blank

Or Scotty we talked about her him earlier with

I'm giving her she's got captain Next generation

you have obviously the different call signs from

Picard engage or make it so Resistance is futile

from the Borg shields up red alert things like

that which happen almost in every episode To

me this one's pretty clear -cut, but I'd like

to get your guys opinions when you look back

at ones which which One gave me more quotes that

stuck in your mind, Birdman. Without a doubt,

the original series, because that cast sold it.

And you know, they're like, I don't know, just

it seems to me those classic Star Trek quotes

are literally part of a geek social consciousness.

Like we just all know them. Once again, you can

do the same thing for TNG, but I don't know.

I look at the original series and I feel more

towards them. Now, obviously, I love TNG with

engage, make it so obviously Worf's thing and

the Borg thing. I don't know. I think the original

series is infinitely more more kind of quotable

and it resonates more. I really think it does.

I mean, they just they mean more with the TNG.

Not so much. Don't know if I necessarily see

it like that, but I definitely do see the original

series as being more quotable I think I might

go into some stuff that we'll talk about in a

little bit with the writing and stuff. Whereas

there was more Engaging things for them to deal

with in the next generation where they didn't

need the quotes. Maybe I don't know But but the

original series just has quote after quote after

quote that every character seems like they have

a call, you know quote most known for them, whether

it be the way Kirk talks and gives him a bunch

of quotes, podcast quotes. Bones has quotes,

Scotty has quotes, everybody had quotes that

they kind of went to. That just wasn't part of

the next generation, whether it be by design

or just by happenstance. So that's why, for me,

it's a sure thing for the original series. Matt,

what do you think? With shag carpeting, waterbed,

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That's Napa know -how. who in the last two years

we sat down and watched all of Next Generation

and the movies. Oh, with the movie? Yeah, it

was actually before Nate moved back up, so you

and I weren't even talking at this point. Damn

it. So, like, and I think to that group, and

I feel like the number one most quoted thing

wasn't even something said in the show so much

as an attitude from one episode. which was the

one where Picard's the negotiating the contract

between the two races and he was just a cocky

bastard the whole time and it's all like what

are we gonna do last time we had like 30 legislators

like well this time you've got me I'm the Picard

bitches and it was just like I'm the Picard bitches

is probably the most quoted thing of that whole

series and he didn't even say that he just kind

of threw it out there I think it's no no question

Well, I think it's pretty cut and dry here for

me, but the original series has a lot more...

quoteable lines from every character because

there were, I mean, I would say the films had

more than this original series did itself. I

mean, the original series had a lot of iconic

lines that people were known for, you know, the

beam me up Scotty, the I'm giving her all she's

got or, you know, I'm a doctor, you know, blah,

blah, blah. But anyways, but I think the films

added extra stuff to it as well. You know, the

double dumbass on you or, you know, I've never

trusted the Klingons or whatever the needs of

the many and. You look at TNG, they do have things

that are specific to each character as well.

I would almost equate that to being a Roddenberryism

because the later series don't really have the

same type thing as these two. There are a few

other ones that are on there for TNG as well.

Overall, I'd have to go with the original series

here. Alright, so another clean sweep for the

original series. Quotes are one thing, but what

if we break it down to the actual writing on

the show? Which series had better writers, had

better stories, had better plots, had better

things that they tackled in general? Which series

is superior in that respect? Matt, why don't

you start this one off? Well, I feel like a lot

of us are gonna go into this category thinking

well, this is just entirely one -sided But I

think the one thing I want to say in the defense

of the original series is that though I've almost

every episode of next generation was great like

I think I can think of a couple of old series

episodes that just stand out and I can't think

of very many episodes of the new series that

stand out and that might be because the old series

had more bad in between the great ones, but like

I can't think of an episode of Next Generation

that really hits as hard as like and let that

be your last battlefield with the Frank Gorshin

and the the red and black and the black or the

red and white or the fucking black and white

and white and black guys like it's like he's

black on the right side like I don't know like

I think the writing in that episode and there

are a couple other ones but I mean some of them

are just really stand out and I don't feel like

there's anything like that in the Next Generation

though maybe on an episode to episode basis,

it was probably better. Yeah, I can see what

you're saying with that. Birdman, what do you

think on the writing overall for the series?

I think there are some great questions that the

next generation poses. I mean, one of my favorite

episodes being Measure of a Man, another one

being, oops, sorry, Inner Light, I think it is,

that season four episode. There are some just

there are some damn good TNG episodes, but when

I think of episodes that changed attitudes in

the decade they were produced I think of Star

Trek the classic series I really do and Honestly,

it's it's weird because I honestly would probably

go the other way if if I If I had to go on impulse,

but the classic series it knocked it out of the

park when it needed to If I had my own idea for

a show or my own idea for a franchise or whatever

it might be, and I got to pick one of the writing

teams, either the writing team that worked on

the original series or the writing team that

worked on The Next Generation, I would not even

hesitate in picking The Next Generation's writing

team. The topics they tackled, the moral dilemmas

that they went after, the way that they put in

the science fiction fantasy world things that

you could directly correlate with, you know,

stuff that we were going through in real world

stuff, you know, just human issues in general,

to me far exceeded what the original series ever

was able to do, whether it be the different stuff

they did with data and the human element, whether

it be, you know, different things with honor

and different stuff like that with wharf, just

the even more so what they did with it was in

the different aliens or different species, different

forms of life that they came into contact with

and how they use that to explore different parts

of our own psyche and of our own, you know, the

human element. To me, this one's a slam dunk

for the next generation. Steve, what do you think?

I'm just gonna have to go slam dunk next generation.

It was just overall It's it's better plots better

story better writing conversation. Everything

overall is just just better in that category

What do you think Matt? Well, I don't know bird

man's got a really good point that the original

series changed hearts and minds and and I don't

know if that's because of the quality of the

writing or because back in the 60s there were

fewer TV shows that it had to compare to I wanted

to say they both had great writing, and though

I think Next Generation's probably my favorite

TV show of all time, I'm gonna give it to the

old one just for the hard -hitting episodes it

did have. Alright. Maybe I need to re -watch

some of the old series, but it's somewhat painful

sometimes. Alright. That would cause that category

to come out with our third tie of the... of the

show and that will leave us in our last two categories.

See what happens here in category 19. We're looking

at the critical acclaim of The shows whether

it be awards nominations whether it be, you know,

just like the overall impact We're not talking

about the overall franchise and which franchise

you liked or which series you liked better But

just more of what the series was able to accomplish

From a critical acclaim standpoint, I guess Obviously

if you went straight by the data then that wouldn't

be a discussion But there might be a little bit

of room for debate within that if we're going

on straight on awards Maybe not fair because

the Next Generation was on for so much longer,

but the original series was nominated for 28

different major awards, won five of them. The

Next Generation was nominated for 86 major awards

and won 32 of them, including the first ever

syndicated series to be nominated for Outstanding

Drama Series. How do you break this down as far

as critical acclaim, what it meant to maybe pop

culture or to the franchise in general, without

necessarily giving your opinion on which series

you liked better? Bergman, which one's better

for acclaim? I would argue TNG for sure, just

because it won some really important awards,

especially for writing, plus sound. So, ultimately,

critical acclaim. I got to go TNG for sure. I

think the other thing that the next generation

might have done was more so legitimize Star Trek

as a franchise in general. Maybe that's too strong

a wording, but it did more to like say that this

isn't just a science fiction thing. This isn't

just a reboot or a second try at the original

series to try to introduce us to new fans or

whatever. I mean, it really Took something said

this is serious and this is something we're doing.

Well, we're doing and we're gonna do a good job

with it You know based on all these awards whether

it be this technical aspects the sound aspects

the writing or whatever like This is a serious

show that deals with serious issues and it wasn't

just this You know popcorn science fiction type

series. So I'm gonna have that going for it to

Matt. What do you think? I'm not saying that

the original series was any of that. I'm just

saying like, you know decades later Had a certain

impact with the next generation that allowed

deep space nine and and the voyager and etc to

to happen Which might not happen without the

success of the next generation Yeah, yeah, I

mean Star Trek was huge in the 90s at least as

far as I I've ever seen um I don't know like

part of me wants to just be bitter and be like

well Will Wheaton get two awards on next generation

so the next generation is disqualified but like

you think about the original series and had such

far -reaching social things all the way across

the world and I don't know you know maybe I'm

just not versed as well but I don't know that

happening with next generation you know in a

critical acclaim of the viewership rather than

just the award organizations like I don't think

it's as clear -cut to me as it is to everyone

else Fair enough Steve. What do you think I?

think that Just for starters, I think the original

series got kind of shafted just because it was

nominated For one it was almost double the awards

groups that Right, more awards groups exist now

than they did back then, so that's definitely

a good way of looking at it. Which I get, and

the fact that it was so kind of new and different

that it was either you liked it or you didn't,

whereas by the 80s when TNG came out in the early

90s, sci -fi was pretty much everywhere because

the 80s kind of blew it out of proportion and

so did the late 70s. If you were a sci -fi fan,

this was kind of right up your alley anyway And

not only that but you also had you know this

show because of how successful it was spawned

two other shows that are in the same century

continuity right and I don't want to make it

sound like obviously without the original series

none of it happens I guess if it's not successful

and lasts for the three years that it does thank

God it lasted past that pilot but You know, so

I don't want to make it seem like that, that

Star Trek Next Generation should get all the

credit or something, because obviously the Star

Trek is the original series for a reason. And

you're right, there's a lot more award groups

around later on, so that's possibly a factor

as to why the Next Generation had more awards

and nominations and stuff like that. Steve, where

do you think you're going with vote on this one,

though? Just because it was just overall, there

was more memorable... Aspects to the series which

is why it actually won more nominations So I'd

have to go with the next generation Matt. What

did you think after all that? I'm gonna I'm just

gonna say the original one. I don't know if it's

close. They both got good arguments Fair enough,

which leads us to our final category Last chance

to influence the overall tally. This is just

your own personal opinion Which series is better

Dodd? Ultimately, TNG, because it did run longer.

It had a chance to tell more stories within it.

Do you like TNG better? I like TNG better, but

I like the movies for the original series better.

That makes sense. And I think I do appreciate

what the original series accomplished in terms

of the social impact that it needed to happen

during the sixties, as Matt said, hearts and

minds. That's very important in terms of the

history of television. But in terms of creating

a new generation of people opening up to science,

I would say the next generation. All right, Matt,

what do you think? I casted my vote like three

ago when I said the next generation is my favorite

TV show of all time, and I'm not changing that

opinion. I have a lot of love for a lot of 60

shows, including the old Star Trek, but The Next

Generation. Not only did I grow up on it, when

we rewatched it, like I mentioned like two years

ago, when we got to like season seven and we

had that realization that this is going to end,

like I almost wanted to cry. I was like, this

is so good and I don't ever want it to end ever.

That's true. Steve, what do you think? Actually,

I'm going to have to side with... I'm gonna have

to side with Mike completely on this one. There's

there's no There's no no way I could argue anything

different All right, so that is three votes for

the next generation if I'm hearing everybody

right And I will echo that I've never made a

list, I guess, of what would be my favorite TV

show of all time. I have a feeling Next Generation

would be in my top three, maybe edged out by

MacGyver. But that's just me. Is that a joke?

No, no. MacGyver is my number one favorite series

of all time. Interesting. But Next Generation

would be very probably close second or close

third. I'd have to really look at a whole list

of every TV series ever to figure that out. But

I love Next Generation. I've probably seen every

episode, I don't know, six, seven, eight times.

I remember recording them on VHS tapes in my

basement, like in middle school or whatever.

And I was going to try to record every one so

I could rewatch them again and again because

it was before DVDs and all that kind of stuff

were really popular, et cetera. It just is a

great series to watch. And like you said, I watched

that and I don't want it to end. I want to just

keep going and keep seeing more of these characters

because I love all the characters and I love

the topics they cover. So I will make this again

for the next generation, which ends that category

and ends the show. So we're going to take a quick

time out and we'll be right back with the final

verdict. Returning for its second year is Grand

Con Gaming and Comics Convention on September

19th through the 21st at the Crowne Plaza Hotel

in Grand Rapids, Michigan. This year, be prepared

for more. With a guest list that easily doubles

that of last year's, with artists such as Mark

McKenna or game publishers like Jeff Grubb, it's

easy to want to come check them out. There will

be a silent charity auction, tons of panels for

gaming and comics fans, and the list goes on

and on. Registration is open. For more information,

visit the website grand -con .com. Alright, thanks

for sticking with us. The votes have all been

tallied. And unlike episode 12, we do not have

to worry. There is no tie here. So there will

be a clear -cut winner between... Trek the original

series and Trek the next generation. If you go

total votes, it's 47 to 29. If you go categories,

it's 11 to five. So it's not even close. We were

right in the initial thought process that we

thought it might be a little bit of a slam dunk.

The next generation takes this one hands down.

So 11 to five. If we went By individual basis,

Birdman, you voted Next Generation 10 to 9. Matt,

you voted Next Generation 11 to 8. Steve, you

voted Next Generation 12 to 7. And apparently,

I'm the most biased one on the group because

I voted Next Generation 14 to 5. So all four

of us had Next Generation winning this matchup.

So we can put this argument to rest. Apparently,

the Next Generation is the better Star Trek series.

Final thoughts, Birdman. I was in the cod, bitches!

Fair enough. Final thoughts, Steve? I just...

I'm kind of not surprised. But... But yeah, that's...

It's undeniably the better series. Fair enough.

Matt, what do you think? Final thoughts? I think...

Or the way it should've? Yeah, yeah, I think

I would have been happier if it was a little

bit closer. But I think if it had tied like Pirates

and Ninjas, I'd have been a little upset. That

said, if I had to be on a ship with all of the

people, I would much rather be on the original

guys, because I feel like there would be a more

fun ship to be on. But yeah, no. Minus the technology

differences. The people were just so much fun.

Great characters. I think it'd be fun to sit

at that poker table with with number one and

wharf and Jordy Yeah, if you like losing a lot

of money, I'll just create some more at the holodeck

and be rich in there All right, anybody else

any final thoughts that we haven't got out there

besides the big hard bitches Alright, I would

like to thank Birdman Steve and Matt for joining

me today in the war zone and of course Thanks

to everybody else for listening several ways

to get in contact with us or leave feedback for

the show visit the website www .geekcastradio

.com where you can comment on all our posts you

can also go to episode 12 pirates versus ninjas

and cast a final vote to try to Determine a winner

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So go to iTunes and give us some thoughts on

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Radio Steve, what's your Twitter? SCP 21 Birdman

it is at Birdman dot hashtag Picard bitches Birdman

anything else that you'd like to pimp out as

far as things that people should be going to

find you at Well, you can always find me at this

week in geek net you can occasionally hear me

on Toronto radio I usually on news talk 1010

depending on who's producing that day and I'm

always around on television So keep watching

always causing havoc on Twitter. So follow him

there See what all the stuff he made fun of me

about I'm just kidding. Uh -huh. Matt. What's

your Twitter? I'm at Fridley sent And I have

one podcast that's not on the GeekCastRadio network,

which is RhapsodyCast. We're on YouTube, Potamatic,

iTunes. You can find us. Absolutely. Check that

out. And I would be on Twitter at OptimusSolo.

You can also become a fan of us on Facebook.

That way you can see everything that comes out

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All right. So we hope you enjoyed this episode

of GCR and Wars. Hope that you'll join us next

time when we once again take two geek topics

and pit them against each other in an epic battle

to the death. For now live long and prosper and

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