Heavy Metal: Origins, Artists, and What Makes the Genre

Hellooo Mitch! This is Jesse from Rock Sugar

and you're listening to the Geekcast Radio Network.

Keep it right here. Geekcast Radio dot com presents

Geekcast Radio Special episode on Heavy Metal

Mike TFG1 Blanchard Music's Mr. Neal and Chalk

Dog 1999 Hello and welcome to When you listen

to fools, the mob rules. And from the podcast

that is celebrating their one year anniversary,

or did so a few weeks ago, ChuckDog1999 from

What's On Joe Mind. Hello. Mike, what's going

on? Oh, nothing. Just freaking hip -hop, stupid

neighbors. I hate living in the ghetto. In the

ghetto. Why couldn't there be a metal ghetto?

That would be awesome. In the ghetto. Well, there

there is a metal ghetto, but it's called Birmingham,

England Okay, then I'm trying to remember now

Chuck has been on the music spotlight before

Neil you've been on several of our other shows

but for those that are listening to just the

geek cast radio feed why don't you Introduce

yourself because you're mainly known as TV's

mr. Neil. Yes. I'm TV's mr. Neil from the animation

aficionados podcast I've been on several other

geek cast shows, mostly about cartoons and a

couple movies, I think. And I've also been on

This Week in Geek talking about toys and crap

like that. But I am a big metal fan, and Mike

put out the call for anyone who likes heavy metal.

I'm like, dude, my avatar has metal hair. Well,

I was mainly just trying to find a third person

in general at the time when I posted that because

Like I know some stuff about metal, but I'm not

like highly versed and like I don't listen to

it all the time And I needed someone that could

actually deal with Chuck's nuances, let's say

I Swear to God if you sing your your podcast

is just coming off the network Oh, wow. What

a loss. That would hurt you more than it would

hurt me. Right. No. But no. So, alright. Okay.

Neil, what have you got? You got anything you

want to promote or anything that's coming up

for Animation Aficionados or anything like that

that you want to get out there? Well, in a couple

weeks we got a He -Man episode coming up. It's

half He -Man, half talking about the history

of filmation. The guest we have on that is a

listener. I don't remember his name off the top

of my head. We also have an episode coming up

about Jem and My Little Pony, and we have returning

to the show Kitty Hawk and another special guest,

who I will not reveal at this time. Cool. Cool.

What about you, Chuck? What's been going on with

What's on Joe Mind? Well, the one year anniversary

special, our 52nd episode just went up earlier

today. And if you guys, if anybody listens to

it and you kind of hear like a difference in

my voice, basically the Michael Bell interview,

which is there, which by the way, Mike, you really

should listen to because it's absolutely hysterical.

Dude, between the time this episode of GCR goes

up and the time we recorded it, I will have recorded

over 25 to 45 podcasts. So I'm getting to stuff

as it goes. Well, no, but I just want to point

out, because it's really funny. But any fans

out there are wondering, yes, we do have a blood

on blood moment. But the thing is, that was recorded

on Wednesday. Tuesday night I mean I've already

said this to Gary and a few other people I have

no recollection of Tuesday night Because I was

I was the one screening the because we had a

call -in show and I was the one screening the

calls So basically if I sell if you just hear

me going, uh -huh. Yeah. Yeah. Okay sure I remember

answering one question and it was just basically

be grabbing whatever came to my mind first so

You know and it's our longest podcast ever. It's

like clocks in at over three hours That's why

it took so long to edit, but it really was a

labor of love and believe us if you think that

was good what we've got planning now for our

second year is gonna be If not bigger Yes, all

right, so getting into heavy metal we have four

different topics the first of The topic is how

did heavy metal emerge? Now, me personally, when

I first noticed it was sadly in my teen years.

I knew of 80s metal because my mom listened to

it, but I wasn't listening to Poison all the

time. I wasn't listening to a lot of the... God

I wasn't listening to Led Zeppelin and and all

that stuff a lot in the 80s as a kid But in the

90s when I found Metallica, that's that's about

as heavy as heavy metal as I get is Metallica

So this show essentially is a Neil and Chuck

show They are the experts here so Who wants to

take how how did hit how did metal really emerge

I go first Mike if you don't mind Well, I think

we need to go back to actually what I consider

to be the catch -all of all modern popular music

and that's the blues. The blues came from the

slave spirituals of the Civil War in that era

and contemporary American folk music. Basically

what happened is you had folk music being played

with a shuffle beat and then as it developed

you had different melody structures and a form

came out of it. Well the blues really took off

in England as a lot of music took off back then

due to unfortunately the racism of America. Well

you had a lot of young white British teenagers

drifting towards the blues so first you had a

lot of these blues based rock acts well the generation

coming up behind them said I like this you know

I like that 12 bar structure but I wanted a little

harder before you started recording Mike we were

talking about Birmingham England Well, Birmingham,

England is very important because a large number

of heavy British heavy metal artists came from

there. And their story is predominantly the same.

There was an economically depressed area, had

one steel mill. They were surrounded by these

loud sounds of hammering and thundering and steel

being slapped together with more steel. They

just wanted something louder. So I have to stop

you for a second because sadly I'm flashing to

season two of Iron Man and the black Sabbath

imitation of him hammering on Well, I mean Mike

back then that's really what a steel mill was

for these right, right? Yeah, you know and really

what the blues is I mean what heavy metal is

is the blues turned up to 12 By this point you

had Jim Marshall had developed who unfortunately

just passed away about a month ago. He came out

with his Marshall stack amplifier. So now you

had volume never before heard. There was innovations

being made in terms of early guitar effects,

overdrive, distortion. And you had these kids

now taking what you know the generation before

did with the blues and adapting it to these new

sounds and getting these harder sounds um on

top of that if you go a little further east into

europe you had these kids taking that sound but

then applying classical music structure and ideas

to it namely the diminished fourth which is um

A perfect fifth is when you go from one note

to another and it's considered a perfect interval.

There's no sharps, no flats. A diminished interval,

or in this case a diminished fourth, is when

you take that perfect interval and you make it

flat. For many years that was considered outlawed

and criminal because it was the tone that could

summon the demon. Well, a lot of early heavy

metal was built around that concept. So once

you had the blues on ten merging with these classical

music styles, you had this new type of music

that was being played in clubs that was louder

and in most cases faster than what came before.

And it went from there. That was like the early

form of metal. and over time it became polished

into different other types of metal, which I'm

sure we'll get to, but that really was the start

of it. Neil, thoughts? Yeah, he hit it right

on the head. I had a more rudimentary set of

and blues and other forms of music, mostly classical,

I think. Wow, he really he really had a lot of

Neal ends up being speechless unless his co -host

is interrupting him. Well, what are the one of

the things that I had posted on on your Facebook

wall was If you ever if you ever wanted a smoking

gun is to metal right arising out of much softer

and and more radio -friendly music of the 50s,

all you have to do is find Ronnie Dio and the

Prophets. And it's Ronnie James Dio in a doo

-wop band. Oh yes. This video will be embedded

into the post. It is so weird to see Ronnie James

Dio with a pompadour. Neil, I've actually, since

his passing, I've... his family and the Ninji

record company have actually started releasing

more of that early stuff. I mean, it's funny

because it's a doo -wop structure, but as soon

as you hear him, that's Ronnie James Dio. You

can't deny it. But he sounds great. He took that

style of singing and moved it into metal. I love

metal singers that are like Ronnie James Dio,

where they have a harmony to their singing and

they're not just screaming. The caricature of

heavy metal, especially from the 80s, is just

some guy screeching at the top of his lungs.

But a lot of the singers are actually very, very

good. And Ronnie Dio is probably one of the best.

Well, Neil, I mean, we got Ronnie James Dio.

You have, oh god, Rob Halford. What's his name

from Iron Maiden Bruce Dickinson? I mean a lot

of these guys are classically trained You know,

I don't want it like operatic style singers who

have that type of control But yeah, I mean I

mean that's actually you actually touched upon

something like the voice, the singing. I'm a

guitar player, but for me, when it comes to music,

especially heavy metal, it's the voice and the

drums that get me first, and the guitar usually

follows behind. I don't know if this is blasphemy,

but this is just for me being into what I'm into.

I would say for this generation that we're currently

in, and even the late 20th century, Disturbed

and David Draymond. He's an amalgamation of both

the screamer and the singer Because some of the

soft notes that he can hit with his voice It's

amazing and when he screams it is also amazing

Same thing with James Hadfield. He's a great

screamer and he's a great singer as well And

he has they both have in their singing voices.

They have that melodic Tone that you don't really

remember. It's a metal song until I take Just

as an example take down with the sickness when

Draymond goes to that softer place the thing

that brings you out and Remind you that it's

a metal song is the next drum course So yeah,

I mean that's that's just amazing that that that

that kind of stuff can happen So besides all

the stereotypes that we've given them what really

makes a metal band a metal band I mean besides

you know big hair and screaming voices and everything

else or is that just it? For me You know growing

up in the 80s. It was it was showmanship You

know I look at metal bands today, and they don't

seem to have the showmanship of the old days

But you know maybe I'm just being cranky like

back in the back in the 80s everything was like

fringe and tight pants and For Christ's sake,

Paul Gilbert had fringe on his guitar. When they

started cutting their hair off, I was like, what

are you guys doing? Stop doing that. Neil's just

an old fogey. Yeah, I'm an old fogey. I think

the hair stereotype, unfortunately, has really

become a detriment to a lot of bands. But in

terms of what makes a metal band metal Starting

off just from a technical song based Structure

is number one a lot of the songs don't fit the

traditional 12 bar blues pattern the two minute

30 second song limit a lot of times they go four

or five minutes they have tempo changes Key changes

rhythm changes Sometimes they can even go as

like the epic seven -minute song. Also, as Neil

touched upon, there's a lot of virtuosity. If

you do a poll and say the 10 best singers, the

10 best drummers, the 10 best guitarists, depending

on who this poll is open to, a lot of those spots

would be heavy metal artists. Guys like Eddie

Van Halen in terms of guitar playing. Oh God

Paul Gilbert as Neil just mentioned Warren D

Martini, Richie Sambora, Yngwie Malmsteen And

then on the drums, you know, well drums is a

little easier from any for me. It's basically

cozy Powell Ian Pace, but you know, he was more

of a 70s guy But also in terms of just in terms

of the actual devices. I mentioned it before,

the Marshall amplifier. You really needed those

large stacked amplifiers. HiWatt also was a popular

brand that could just produce the volume. It's

cliche now, but back in the days, you would have

that wall of Marshall stacks behind the great

guitar god as he works his magic. I think one

thing that differentiates the first wave of heavy

metal with the newer wave of heavy metal that

came about in the 80s is the type of guitars.

You basically went from Fender Stratocasters

and Gibson Les Pauls to a lot more independently

made guitars like Kramer's, Charvel, Jackson,

that were of a smaller, lighter body. The joke

in the industry is basically you had a bunch

of these 99 -pound weaklings coming along who

couldn't hold a Les Paul because it was too heavy,

but that was like a big change. I remember, and

sadly I think this is simply because of Wayne's

World, but I remember that the Fenders, the Stratocasters,

were the ultimate guitar for Not only metal but

rock and roll as well What's like cuz I don't

know the mute like When it comes to music and

I've said this before in the music spotlight

if I like something I like it So I don't like,

you know, Chuck knows all this technical crap.

I don't mean that negatively but you know, what's

the as far as a Sound or the way that a song

sounds between a Les Paul and a and a fender.

What's the difference? well A Fender Stratocaster,

an American standard Fender Stratocaster that's

going to keep this simple because there's a lot

of different kinds of Stratocasters, contain

three of what are known as pickups. Pickups,

in the simplest way to explain it, are magnets

that have wire wrapped around them that are wired

together that when you plug them into an amplification

device will boost the sound coming from the instrument.

The type of pickups that a Fender Stratocaster

have are called single coil, which means they're

three magnets wrapped around a few, you know,

ones like that. And it tends to have a thinner

sound depending on, you know, how you have your,

because the Stratocaster you can have, it has

a switch. You can have like different. configurations

to get, you know, very twangy, very plucky type

of sounds, very thin sounds. I wish you would

have mentioned this because I would have brought

my strat and I could have done a demonstration

for you but I know you don't like those things.

Les Paul, which I tend to prefer by is a Les

Paul, have what's known as a humbucker. Now Les

Paul was vented by Les Paul the guitar player

and he basically did it He amplified his guitar

just to hear himself over the horns and all the

jazz bands he played in. That type of pickup

is actually double the size of a single coil

and it really amplifies the sound of the guitar.

It's actually a much louder punchier sound. You

know and then when you have both guitars overdriven

through a good amplifier The Les Paul really

just you know Gives you a punch. I mean, I remember

the first time I had a I bought my up on my Les

Paul and I played like the first chord I had

to sit there for a minute because I was just

overcome with the power of it And of course,

you know, I'm saying this there's a million different

other kinds of pickups you can replace You know,

there's different pickups from different years

sound better than this one But I'm just you know

trying to keep it as simple as possible for the

listeners, right? Yeah All right. So I think

we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna

let Olaf lead it so we'll be back after this

all off metal That's his fucking metal face.

Olaf girl nice. That's girl neck. That's fucked

up man. Come on Berserker, girls think sexy.

I'll watch what he's gonna sing and watch, it's

too funny. That's fucking funny man. Did he say

making fuck? We are back here at Geekcast Radio's

Music Spotlight talking about heavy metal. The

next topic is kind of like what Chuck was just

talking about, the art of being metal. And you

kind of already hit on it with the guitars and

everything else. But how do we want to approach

this topic? Because again, when I made these

topics up, I was just like, hmm, what could we

talk about? I don't know. How do we want to approach

this? Well, Mike, I think maybe if we give a

general synopsis of the different types of metal,

you know, and go into each one, like, you know,

how the individual art of that type of metal

might be a little easier. Right. Yeah, that'll

work. All right. So start us off. Where do we

go? All right. Well, we got to start with the

first wave of heavy metal. That really started

in Europe in the late 1960s. You had some of

the sounds in America as well. There was a band

called The Animals. A lot of metal musicians

considered them highly influential just because

they were doing 12 bar blues, but much harder.

And Eric Burden, who was the singer, he was a

You know, a British guy, the Annals were a British

band, but I mean, he was doing the old... That

was very... So out of Germany, you had the Scorpions

with Rudolf Schenker. Then in England, you had

Judas Priest. You know, a little bit of Led Zeppelin,

but Led Zeppelin was a straight ahead hard rock

band. From there, you had some other bands coming

up and... mid 70s, Deep Purple, Rainbow, Star

Castle in America, which sometimes gets pushed

more towards the progressive rock end of things.

These were the guys who really were just taking

the 12 -bar blues, turning it up to 12, and going

from there. You also had some of the first...

Guitar see Richie Blackmore in deep purple and

rainbow rainbow was Ronnie James deals first

introduction to the world And you know, I mean

that was when you had the Marshall stacks It's

funny a blackmore was playing a Fender Stratocaster

and he was killing on it You know the scorpions

and I think Judas Priest they were playing Early

gibsons or early fenders, but they were playing

fenders with like Humbuckers in it, but it was

like just that like I was saying that that Birmingham

steel sound Well, I was more you know, that's

really more the scorpions and Judas Judas priest

rainbow and deep purple you had Much more classically

classical music oriented structures and that's

from Blackmore. I mean he would play There's

major and minor scales in music There's also

the blues scale. Well, there's also stuff called

the Mixolonian, Aelonian, which are just, to

explain to the listener, just different ways

of playing the notes. And he used to focus on

that. And, I mean, he was doing what we call

shredding before shredding was even a term. It's

like you listen to him sometimes and it's like,

I just couldn't, Even now, just trying to describe

it, I've seen sheet music for Highway Star and

it features this very intricate solo part and

he was playing 32nd notes. Now to give you guys

an idea, when I studied music in school, 32nd

every teacher I had explained that usually when

you get the 32nd notes, the tempo of the song

is slowed down to make it easier to play, or

you're just slurring. Now, slurring is you're

not hitting the note with your finger. You're

using your fretting hands to play the note. He

was picking them, which means both his left hand

and the right hand had to be moving. and an extremely

fast rate. Now, of course, that was on the album.

Live, when he would do the solo, he would just

slap his hand on the guitar, play a couple notes,

and then rub it up against the amplifier. But

that was Blackmore. Now, in terms of the look,

in terms of like when you said the art, this

was really when you... They were taking, you

know, it's funny Neil mentioned the Ronnie James

Dio being a doo -wop singer. You know, this is

where the matching outfits sometimes would come

into play. The stage presence, you know, the

moving around. Because before this, you know,

you had guys like the Beatles and stuff like

that who would just sit there, bob their heads,

play their guitar and sing. But now you had guys

like Ronnie James Dio who would wave their hands,

get the audience to sing. point, you know, have

syncopation with his gestures in terms of the

lights. He didn't move around much. That was

the one thing about back then with Ronnie James

Theo. He was basically playing himself and saying,

but Ian Gillan, who was the lead singer of Deep

Purple, I mean, he would work the stage, twirl

the microphone, stuff like that. David Coverdale,

who actually you might know from Whitesnake,

got his start in Deep Purple. He replaced Ian

Gillen. He would stand there, you know, like

he's dry humping the microphone. So you really,

this is when you had a little bit bricks. Guys

were spending money on stages, fireworks, lighting

ray. And I think if you want to, you know, this

early period of metal, I think in terms of theatrical

aspects, you have to mention Kiss. Because Kiss

went. With any they were on With makeup and these

giant cost a heck they were able to plug never

know And they really made metal like a theater

audience Alice Cooper. Oh Well Cooper is the

granddaddy of them. Yeah, he was I mean the band

and Vince Fournier, the Alice Cooper. It literally

is a lot of these shock bands today. And I just

look at him and I says, look, Alice Cooper did

that 40 years ago and he did it better. Just,

you know, worry about writing a song. Don't worry

about cutting off your head on stage. So, I mean,

to talk about Alice Cooper, I mean, The chicken

incident You guys know that story I think so

yeah It's funny I mean I'm not gonna tell the

story over because there's a hundred different

places you can find it But the one part to it

that I like that I actually never heard before

Frank Zappa who? Was a brilliant genius level

Musician who if I think passed away in the 90s

Staying impact today he spoke Alice Cooper he

said to him chicken into the audience. Yeah,

I thought it could fly Did you mean did you mean

for Well, don't tell anybody you're all over

the cover of the papers, this is the best press

ever And the funny thing is, what was funny about

that is this was a concert that was a benefit

for handicapped people. So the first couple of

rows were people in wheelchairs, on crutches,

missing limbs, what have you. They're the ones

who killed the chicken. They ripped it to shreds.

Oh my god. Yeah. I don't think we can talk about

metal and not talk about Ozzy and his bat well

Ozzy really came along that are the British heavy

metal yeah I mean that which is so funny because

I never like up until the up until the Osborne's

reality show It never occurred to me that Ozzy

was British because he sings like he's a friggin

American I Mean what is it with British people

that Talk the way they do but yet they can sing

like they live in America Well, I think it comes

from the whole Blue style because most of the

blues musicians they listened to growing up were

American so they're just copying that vocal style

if you know what I mean. Right, yeah. Neil, anything

you want to bring up? You know, I had something

and I lost it. Wow. I was trying to, you were

breaking up a lot there. I was trying to follow

what you were saying, but yeah, the chicken incident

was where you threw a chicken into the audience

and it came back in pieces. Talk about some extra

crispy strips. Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny.

I misspoke I said black Sabbath was part of the

new wave of British heavy metal the Aussie black

Sabbath was actually part of that Of British

heavy metal. I mean they were really the pot

the first wolf Harding albums, you know, I agree

with Chuck when he says, you know the fact that

metal was you know the the beginnings of metal

was the showmanship the and really it's kind

of what i mentioned way back in the beginnings

of of the music spotlight here at gcr was you

know in the 60s and the 70s was you went to a

concert to see someone live it wasn't like the

60s you went to see them live the 70s you started

going to see for a show because it seemed to

me specifically with you know the one I can really

bring up is the Beatles but I mean before they

ended their career they recorded and released

12 albums or they recorded all this material

you know beforehand versus nowadays where you

have a band say Best metal examples I can use

is metallic and disturbed Probably disturbed

before Metallica because they release an album

every 10 years or so. Oh wait. No, that's tool

But we disturbed and with any really like metal

slash rock band nowadays they'll you know release

an album in 2012 they'll tour until 2014 or 2015

promoting that album and promoting those new

songs whereas back in the in the 60s they would

release album after album after album and maybe

have one tour during those five albums release

so yeah starting in the 70s it was more of a

show that you were going to see. I guess we can

kind of switch over to metal bands that we like.

For me, I don't listen to a lot of metal. Not

a lot of the heavy stuff. I think, as I've already

said, Disturbed and Metallica is about as heavy

as I get. I can listen to certain Black Sabbath

songs and certain Ozzy songs, but It's not a

genre I listen to all the time. I don't dislike

it. It's just it's not It's just not in my wheelhouse.

I'm more of a mainstream type of guy mainstream

rock so Neil what about you for for metal bands

that you? still listen to her like Well top of

my list are Deep Purple and Rainbow Both Richie

Blackmore bands like them for pretty much the

same reason. I love Richie Blackmore I love Ian

Gillen and Ronnie James Dio. And Rainbow actually

went on after Dio left. They had Graham Bonnet

as singer. They had a whole bunch of guys. Joe

Lynn Turner. That's who I was trying to think

of. I couldn't think of it. They had one final

album with some guy. Dougie White. It's called

A Stranger and Us All. Yeah, that is one of the

strangest albums that I own. It almost seems

like it's Richie Blackmore refusing to change.

And after that album was released and was released

to Critical Yarns, I guess he quit heavy metal

altogether and formed Blackmoor's Night. Blackmoor's

Night, yeah. With his wife who is about the same

age as me. Here's this 60, 70 -year -old guy

on stage and his wife who is just a knockout.

But other metal bands that I like. Let's see.

Well, Judas Priest and Iron Maiden. Impelletary,

Racer X, Motorhead. And Motorhead's kind of funny,

because Lemmy has this voice that's kind of really

grovely. It's not really what you would think

of as a screaming, melodious singer that all

these other guys are. But I didn't like it at

first, and it kind of grew on me after a while.

And I just can't get enough of Motorhead. Let's

see, Motley Crue, Skid Row, Yngwie. Yeah, those

are basically all the ones that I like. What

about you Chuck? Oh Wow, well For me, I first

really got into heavy metal through the scorpions

in the 1980s. They had an album called love at

first sting and It was just you know, watching

the videos. I was like, wow, this is really cool

From there, you know, I got into a lot of the

pop metal poison Bon Jovi warrant winger Motley

Crue But really now I tend to listen to the more

straight -ahead new wave of British heavy metal

Iron Maiden TNT Rainbow Deep Purple The 80s era

of black Sabbath which featured Ronnie James

Dio Ian Gillen Tony Cap Martin Tony Martin Tony

Martin, oh god, Tony Martin's like my favorite

Black Sabbath vocalist. He is so underrated.

Oh god, it's such a shame that they can't get

back together and like they did Heaven and Hell

with Ronnie James Dio. They can't do like Headless

Cross with Tony Martin, you know. But Cinderella.

There's a great band called Steeler. who featured

a guy by the name of, I think his name was Richard

Keele. He eventually went on to have his own

solo success, but it was Yngwie Malmsteen's first

band in America. There's a group called Badlands,

which was Jakey Lee's group after he left the

Ozzy Osbourne band and featured Ray Gillen on

vocals. Unfortunately, Ray passed away in the

early 90s. underrated group of course Ronnie

James Dio You know the voice except basically

except Ronnie James Dio. I have a rule about

heavy metal bands You either have to either have

to have a woman as a singer or a guy But the

guy can be no taller than five feet So the undertaker

is not going to be the lead singer of a heavy

metal band anytime now you can't do it because

I mean who do fun listening These guys are like

five feet tall. They got a voice that fills a

room. Ronnie James Dio said it. It's not the

size of your pencil, but how big you write your

name. Yeah, I can see that. And I think the one

that we've kind of not even mentioned really

was, you know, huh? Okay, there is that. I was

going for more of, you know, the back -in -black

crew. Oh, yes, ACDC. ACDC. Well, the problem

is I don't consider ACDC heavy metal. I consider

them a hard rock. Yeah, that's kind of weird

whatever people call heavy metal. And see, that's

what confuses me half the time with metal. And

that's why I wanted to have you guys on this

episode, obviously, since I... Apparently know

nothing about it, but it's like you know bands

like Metallica like I mean disturbed essentially

is a rock band But they are so heavy that they

could be considered heavy metal or I guess they

could be considered new metal It's like I don't

know for me. It's so hard to distinguish between

the two genres sometimes so Way I can distinguish

between hard rock and heavy metal Hard rock is

predominantly that rhythm and blues on steroids

And then heavy metal is that has that more classical

tinge With the longer songs like a heart you

can have a hard rock song. That's two minutes

and 30 seconds Yeah, you know heavy metal a little

more difficult Yeah All right, was there anything

else you guys wanted to bring up? Anything else

we want to talk about consisting of heavy metal?

Go ahead. Well, I wanted to mention, you know,

Neil mentioned Rainbow. It was even I mentioned

Rainbow. It was really around the time that Joel

and Turner came into the band. That's when the

new wave of British heavy metal came along. that

guys felt that a lot of the older bands were

starting to become a little too poppy. So that's

when you had Iron Maiden come along, Merciful

Fate, Saxton, oh Saxton, Denim and Leather brought

us all together. You know you had Black Sabbath

Reborn with Ronnie James Dio and a lot of those

other bands but you know it's funny if I say

the band Whitesnake What's the first thing you

guys think of? Is this love? Yes. Or here I go

again. This is what kills me. I think I mentioned

this on the 70s or 80s show. You did. Whitesnake

was a six -piece blues rock band for 10 years

before... The 1987 albums right around 1980 to

84 is when they started to make the switch But

I mean then they went from hard rock and then

around 84 Some guys left you had a guitarist

by the name of John Sykes come in and that's

when they went more towards the metal edge With

cozy Powell on drums Neil Murray on bass with

John Sykes, and then it went off from there But

you know David Coverdale. I mean as I mentioned

early guy to start in 73 with deep purple I mean

he was doing that like harder rock Unfortunately,

you know by 85 why snake became David Coverdale's

band David Coverdale and band You know it wasn't

like the cohesive unit But yeah, I think you

know just there's so much we didn't touch upon.

I know we have a fixed window Just you know like

I said when I was putting this episode together.

I mainly Put this this episode is here in the

music spotlight simply because you asked me to

do it and I was like okay I guess and I That's

why I essentially said this is gonna be a Neil

and Chuck show because I I'm on Unfamiliar territory

here. So I mean if there's anything else you

want to bring up feel free go ahead Well, well,

you know what is because we mentioned it earlier

and I you know the stigmata of being a hair metal

band, right? Yeah, I guess Neil I can throw this

to you How many bands do you think had their

careers tainted? Because they got stuck with

that label because I hate that label. I prefer

the term melodic rock or pop metal I mean, I

just hate the label hair metal because that's

what you know the mainstream media uses to describe

the music and it's just so wrong you know I mean

for that I can think of Whitesnake and Rat are

two bands that got stuck with the hair metal

logo that and it completely really screwed up

their careers I don't know how you feel about

it Neil Never really thought about that Yeah,

I can I can see that Yeah, cuz I mean that's

all you ever hear like whenever I watch cuz I

only get regular VH1 I don't get VH1 classic

or any of the special VH1 channels, but whenever

I see like oh the top 100 Hard rock songs the

top 100 heavy metal songs. It's like oh these

guys were hair metal of the 80s and I'm like

Okay Hmm weird um Well, I mean another band I

can think of Was a band called Tesla? Tesla was

a phenomenal band that frankly should never been

given the moniker hair metal because I really

weren't a metal band I always considered them

a little bit more hard rock, but they could have

had huge success But because they got stuck with

that hair metal thing. It was like once like

1991 came around boom they were done Def Leppard

Def Leppard was able to hang on to 92 but because

of the fact it takes like two or three years

to record an album They got killed You know,

yeah, I mean, I mean they I mean people tend

to forget the early Def Leppard albums I mean,

there were some heavy heavy riffs on it, but

then my lying came in and really Structured them

into that two -minute 30 -second format, but

they were still a killer band You know, I'm just

thinking now You know, I mean obviously guys

like poison I mean they were a pop metal band.

I mean, yeah It was on tell empty You know, I

got all these great influences. I don't know

why they can't can't come out I mean, I just

play the same three chords over and over it's

like Another great band Cinderella. I mean if

you look at one of their album covers you know

you're not gonna you wouldn't be sure if you're

looking at women or men but as soon as you start

listening to it it is great hard music but because

of this again because of the hair they were hair

metal which is a shame because they had such

great music you know yeah um what else did you

want to do neil did you have anything else from

your notes that you wanted to bring up um just

just uh I kind of go back to what it was like

to buy albums back in the day. If there's one

bane of existence to every heavy metal fan of

the 80s and 90s, it's the Japanese bonus track.

And I spent so much money going after rare versions

of albums to have one or two extra songs. And

nowadays you can get all those for nothing. Yeah,

that just I Mean I guess that would be more so

for like when we do the music spotted wrap up

talking about that kind of well No, I'm not I'm

not saying we're not gonna talk about here, but

I'm just like It's not just with the metal bands

though, that's with any music release honestly

it is because I Don't understand like okay. I

Hate to bring this up, but I have to because

it's the only example I can think of When a certain

Nickel album came out last year, Mr. Kroger said

that for him and his band, whatever the record

company pays us for, that's how many songs are

on an album for them. He's like, we're not going

to give the record company a free song. If they

pay for 12 songs, that's what you get. If you

pay for 11 songs, that's what you're going to

get. but you got other bands that will do three

four five I've I've known a couple bands that

do five or six bonus tracks and they'll I mean

I know you know this is the digital age now sadly

and there's really no such thing as actually

going to a music store and buying music anymore

uh... but you know they'll release an itunes

version of wal -mart version of this version

of that version and as you said neil uh... japanese

only tracks and since the like that it's like

well why can't we why does it have to be a country

exclusive i mean there are so many store in a

wal -mart target whatever iTunes you know whatever

I know I know certain bands have different different

versions of the same album but it's different

content at different prices but essentially it's

the same album like you can buy the regular version

of an album that's just the 12 tracks or you

can buy the special edition that's like 16 tracks

plus the iTunes LP visual thing or whatever else

but the whole country thing just never made any

the whole International release of only these

fans get this extra stuff where you know Whereas

if if you really want to hunt it down and find

it you can do so But you're gonna have to you

know go vacation in the Netherlands somewhere

pre shot brother preach on I mean, I I just don't

understand that if you want If you're a fan of

that band or that artist, and you want to hear

everything that they have produced for the latest

album that they're doing, why not make that available

to everyone, instead of having people have to

hunt it down? Yeah. No, Mike, I really do agree

with you. For me, it was kind of like a treasure

hunt, so I was completely like... sucked in by

that but right like uh... we mentioned re re

jillian earlier of uh... of badlands there's

a black sabbath album called uh... the eternal

i'll yes and stopped all that to you if you said

it in unison it's like holy shit we're in stereo

but uh... yeah he recorded either most of the

vocals are all of the vocals for that album and

then he left the band and that album was re -recorded

with Tony Martin and for years that was like

the holy grail to find and now it's all on YouTube.

Well actually Neil I'll do you one better. In

England they did the 20th century remastered

to disc versions of a lot of those 80s black

Sabbath albums which I'm kind of pissed off about

because it took me a while to get a lot of them

on CD and Just when I finally got most of them.

I start hearing they're doing these 20th century

remastered and If you buy the 20th 20th century

remastered version of Eternal Idol You will get

the Ray Gillan version of the album along with

the Tony Martin Wow When we do born again the

one with Ian Gillan Mm -hmm the one from 82 Right

if you buy that one you get the live show where

you had black Sabbath doing smoke on the water.

Oh my god. Oh Yeah, you know, but basically I'm

looking at it. I'm like I just got these And

they're and they're and they're only UK exclusive

because unfortunately there isn't that big of

a demand For 80 Sabbath. I mean, I'm actually

kind of glad I discovered him because I was gonna

drop a chunk of change for Headless cross and

tire, but I'm like, oh, you know what forget

it. They'll probably gonna remaster headless

cross and tire soon so and headless cross has

a had a track that was long -missing and now

it's... Did they put it back on the album? What

was it? Cloak and Dagger? Well, the only version

of Headless Cross I have now came from a copy

of Classic Rock Magazine. I haven't bought any

of the official releases just because I'm waiting

for them to remaster it, but... the one I have

does not have Cloak and Dagger. I think the only

way to get Cloak and Dagger right now is to get

the Sabbath Stones Greatest Hits set, which came

out in the mid -90s. I'd have to double check

that. Now, what do you, and this is more so a

general music question versus a specific to Heavy

Metal. What do you guys prefer buying? Do you

prefer buying each album as it comes out or do

you prefer waiting for a Greatest Hits album?

or do you get both? In my case, I really do not

buy music from new artists anymore, so... Well,

okay, I'm not saying that... I'm not saying it

has to be a new artist, I'm saying... Okay, say,

heaven forbid this ever happens, but say, you

know, your house catches on fire and you lose

all your CDs. Would you prefer going back and

getting a... full on compilation five disc set

of a greatest hits album or would you want to

go back and buy each album separately? I would

probably at first buy the compilation just so

I can have the tracks I really like first and

then work my way back to getting the albums.

Yeah. You know, a great example is I got from

my birthday a couple years ago, the Ronnie James

Dio era Black Sabbath box set, which was the

albums Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules, Live Evil,

and Dehumanizer, which were the four albums he

did with Black Sabbath. Now, of course, I got

that and I listened to it.