War for the Planet of the Apes Review

Hey, this is Steve Blum and you are listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. Hello and welcome

to episode 143 of The Cinema Geeks. I am one

of your Cinema Geeks Optimus Solo and joining

me today for this episode is Heart Candy Mandy.

Hey! and movie revolve Dan hello hey how's it

going it's going well three cinema geeks for

you today as we're giving you back -to -back

movie reviews I know I know that doesn't happen

very often But we are back to back, new movie

reviews. That's right, we all got to the theater

last time to see Spider -Man. We all made our

way back to the theater to see War for the Planet

of the Apes. So today we're going to be talking

about War for the Planet of the Apes and maybe

a few of the other Planet of the Apes films I

guess along the way might get referenced. So

before we get into that... always we love to

get your feedback on this on our new movie reviews

as well as our other series that we have going

on so if you want to stay in contact with us

or give us feedback we'll do that right here

at the beginning of the show you can do that

on the website www .geekcasterradio .com just

find any of our episode posts you can comment

there leave us feedback and we'll interact with

you there or if you have questions or comments

you want to do via social media you can do that

best way would be to do it on Twitter. The show

handle is at CinemaGeekCast. My Twitter is at

OptimusSolo. Amanda, what's yours? At Hard Candy

Mandy. Eyes, no eyes. And Dan, what's your Twitter?

So we would just love for you guys to interact

with us through Twitter or on the website and

we can definitely get some discussions going.

But today the discussion is war for the Planet

of the Apes. So Amanda, let's start with you.

What was your history as far as Planet of the

Apes goes going into this? Which films have you

seen? Which ones hadn't you seen? And what was

your interest or how much did you like the ones

that you've seen? As far as the originals go,

I think I've seen the first two, and then what's

the one we watched today? Like five? Four. Four.

And then, of course, I saw the Marky Mark one,

and I've seen all of the newer renditions as

well. So just a couple of the old ones that you

haven't seen? Yeah. And how did you like the

originals that you saw? How did you like Marky

Mark's version? And how did you like the two

in this series that you've seen so far? I think

that the original versions were cool as a cool

concept Seeing it when I was younger before these

newer Versions came out. It was a cool weird

scary Concept and I did dig the marky mark one.

I did I don't care anybody says I liked it. I

had fun with it and When you know the direction

completely changed and they got a little bit,

you know more back to the original storyline

almost with these new versions and almost like

a prequel to all that I would say. It took it

to a very very emotional level and I think that

in all three of these now that's the one thing

that stood out for me was like the emotion was

real no matter if it was coming from humans or

apes or any of that. Did you have a preference

as far as which one you liked better between

Rise and Dawn? Um, I don't know. They're all

really super friggin heartbreaking. So okay,

Dan What was your background as far as plan of

the apes goes before we get into actual talk

on war for the plan of the apes? Of the original

originals, I've only seen the first one the original

plan of the apes, which I enjoyed a great deal

Something moving this product of its time very

much a 60s sci -fi film, but still kind of impressive

what they were able to do with the practical

effects and performances. Some of those actors

were able to give through rubber masks that didn't

really move all that well. and also the Tim Burton

version. I remember very little of that. I do

remember that the special effects in the sense

of like the suits and the makeup were pretty

impressive. And I remember pretty much nothing

else except for the ending being one of the most

confusing of all times. And then with this most

recent franchise, I remember when the first one

was coming out. Rise of the Planet of the Apes

and thinking like why are we doing this? This

is stupid. This is why we don't need this and

then ended up being a really good movie and I

loved Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, which is

why War the Planet of the Apes was my most anticipated

movie of the year because I really adored that

movie so much It was such a huge step up from

Rise, which I enjoyed but I thought it kind of

brought it to another level so that was my Nice

preparation going into this Yeah, I had been

kind of exposed to Planet of the Apes as a youngster.

I'd never really watched any of the films I've

probably seen like bits and pieces because I

remember my cousins were somewhat into them and

they had like the the action figures or some

type of toys of Planet of the Apes and I was

just didn't take it serious because I always

thought it just looked so silly as far as the

ape costumes and stuff like that but I had never

actually like watched one and paid attention

to it until for some reason I got the blu -ray

set of the original five films this is before

Rise or Dawn ever came about and I sat down and

watched all of them and there's some good ones

and there's some bad ones in that in that first

five there's like hits and misses along the way

but I just really fell in love with kind of the

stuff that I didn't know was part of this franchise

like I just thought it was a sci -fi movie with

you know people in these ape costumes etc, but

there's a lot of like a lot of thematic things

that you can get into there's a lot of Statements

that they're trying to make and things that they're

trying to get across that I think are very interesting

And I think they do it in a very interesting

way with the apes etc. So I Thought that it was

intriguing and it really kind of piqued my interest

when this new series was gonna Be released. So

I also decided to go back and of course watch

the marky mark version Just to be a completist

and see all of them. I Actively dislike the the

Mark Wahlberg version for a lot of reasons including

the ending and So not a big fan of that. But

when this one came about it just seemed like

it It was a weird idea that they're going to

be doing Planet of the Apes again. It's kind

of maybe like in your camp a little bit, Dan,

where it's like what's the purpose of this or

why are we doing this? But I guess it fits the

mold of some of those things that become... Relevant

to do again based on where the technology has

taken us and where you know the art of visual

effects and things like that like some of this

stuff is Nice to see done again in a in a way

that you never Thought you were gonna be able

to see it So that's kind of what really kind

of got me interested for this new series, and

I obviously loved rise and dawn both Quite a

bit. They were both very high on my list as far

as films for that year And I think this was in

my top two or three films as far as most anticipated

this year I think it was this in Star Wars and

one other film So I was definitely very intrigued

for this one We actually kind of a side story

before we get into our actual war for the planet

of the apes talk I did try to take advantage

of the fact that they were playing a Triple feature

of rise dawn and concluding with war for the

planet of the apes on the Wednesday before it

released Reason that we tried to take advantage

of that is because I was gonna be on another

podcast that was recording Friday night and I

Didn't know how else I was gonna be able to see

the movies before that So we decided to make

a whole day of it and see three films in the

theater and as usual when we go to the theater

it seems like we find interesting stories like

the ceiling caving in like the one time etc but

uh so i'm sitting there man it was going to get

there little bit late so she was gonna get there

probably a half hour maybe an hour into the first

movie and then we were gonna watch the rest of

that and the final two films together so I'm

sitting in the theater there's actually quite

a few people that were gonna take this three

movie tour because we probably had somewhere

between I don't know 20 30 people in the theater

at least they were giving out posters and lanyards

and all kinds of stuff and sitting in the theater

and the first one's supposed to start at four

o 'clock somebody walks in at 359 and says the

first movie's not gonna play so I don't know

what happens I don't know how movies work I guess

but there's something wasn't loading or didn't

wasn't gonna be ready in time there was a big

storm the night before or that morning and they

lost power in the morning and apparently it takes

like two to three hours to get these things ready

and for some reason wasn't going to be ready

in time so not that that doesn't defeat the whole

purpose of watching all three of them back to

back so they're like you can go see another movie

if you'd like that's playing at four and then

come see the other two and we'll give you some

movie passes for you know some free movies and

whatnot so it was four o 'clock and the second

movie was going to be starting at 6 30 so my

options were to see any other film that was starting

at four that was going to be done you know within

two two and a half hours so I went out and I'm

like okay I'll go see another movie and then

it'll be you know an extra 2017 film that I wasn't

planning on seeing. These were my three choices

that would have gotten done somewhat in time

to see the second and third film. I could see

The House with Will Ferrell or I could see Cars

3 or Despicable Me 3. Yeah, how did you choose

I was I was thinking, you know Oh Maybe the big

sick or beguiled or or something that we hadn't

seen might be playing and we can get that out

of the way But no, those are my choices And so

instead the ultimate decision was to sit in the

theater With Amanda and just stare at a black

screen until 630 That's what we went with so

otherwise she would have been in the theater

by herself for a while while I was finishing

the other movie and it just seemed weird so I

just joined her and we we watched an hour of

black screen and then got ready for the the final

two movies which did play they did they did play

it was it was interesting going right from one

into the other though I think that definitely

helped my enjoyment level because we just we

went basically right from dawn to war and what

was interesting was in between the second and

third film they didn't turn the lights on in

the theater at all like they left all the lights

down and like there was still like a almost a

hum like an audio hum it seemed like like they

hadn't shut the sound off or something and so

we just got to sit there in like complete dark

listening to like this hum for like 10 to 15

minutes waiting for the third movie which probably

bugged a lot of people but for me it like even

amped my anticipation more up. I don't know how

that's possible, but it did. So we did get to

see War, you know, directly right after the second

film and spent six hours in the theater instead

of eight or nine, I think is how it turned out.

Amanda, what was that experience like? We did

end up for the record with five free movie passes.

So that helps, I guess. But what did you think

of that marathon? Um, and it was a daunting task,

especially after working all day and then having

to go spend another work day like at the theater

basically. Uh, so I just ate a ton of shit and

enjoyed the movies that we did get to see. The

funny thing is, it's like they didn't know they

were doing this. So you're about to show a marathon.

So you know that people are going to be in the

theater for eight to nine hours, right? They're

going to be seeing three movies back to back

to back over the course of dinner because it

starts at four and it ends at like midnight.

So people are probably going to need to eat at

some point, right? They didn't even have most

of their, like we went to try to, Amanda was

going to try to order some hot dogs because she

loves movie theater hot dogs. Don't judge me.

they were still frozen like they didn't have

them prepared enough so that they could do anything

with them so like not only did we not get to

see our first movie but then we couldn't eat

any of the food that we typically would have

eaten because they didn't have it prepared which

it's like ah and then they stick you in what

feels like you're on a train to oschwitz jeez

i can't believe you said that i did like i feel

like we're on a train going to something some

death camp and the holocaust it was not fun I

think you guys need better theaters. Yeah, we

do need better theaters, that's for sure. I mean,

we don't necessarily dislike our theaters, but

it seems like, I don't know, this is like the

multiple times that they've dropped the ball

on something like this and it's just kind of

like... This is at least the third movie that

we went to see that we weren't allowed to see

because of something screwing up technologically.

But anyways, let's get back to War for the Planet

of the Apes. It is directed by Matt Reeves, written

by Mark Bomback and Matt Reeves. Obviously starring

Andy Serkis, Steve Zahn, the human, this time

the main human here is Woody Harrelson, so we've

had a different one in each film. And it's getting

all kinds of good reviews as far as Rotten Tomatoes

and Critical Response. I don't know what it's

at currently, but last time I checked it was...

in the 80s or 90s as far as Rotten Tomatoes.

I think it was like at a 94, 95, somewhere in

that range. And it did, I believe, beat Spider

-Man in its opening weekend. I think it was Spider

-Man's second weekend and War's first, and I

think it won that weekend. So it's doing fairly

well. I don't know if it's quite holding up to

what they were hoping for based on the last couple

films, but doing fairly well. So let's get you

guys' initial take on War for the Planet of the

Apes, starting with Amanda. What did you think

of this? third chapter of this trilogy so far

I think that it definitely played out the story

really well from what we got from beginning to

the end and it did have closure but still like

this open -ended hope so you you got closure

for the story that we're in but it opens it up

to then kind of birth these original movies that

we did get so there was a lot of little Connecting

tissue pieces here and there for all the films

and I think that it was strung together really

nicely I didn't have an issue with the pacing

Even seeing it that late in the theater where

normally that's my bedtime. I did manage to stay

awake the entire time I don't know. I think that

the characters are really compelling here as

usual the apes especially and getting to see

You know, all this range of emotion like I mentioned

earlier was totally awesome, especially how real

the apes look and then to see that real emotion

played out was really awesome. Do you think it

lived up to the hype? I would say so. Okay and

just for reference sake if any of you haven't

heard any of our movie reviews on the podcast

before we will keep all the spoilers towards

the end and we'll tell you when those are coming

so we will be spoiler free for this first section

of the review. Dan, what was your initial take

on War for the Planet of the Apes and do you

think it lived up to the hype? It is. It's quite

a challenge when like I said it's my most anticipated

movie of the year so it's like if it's not the

best movie of the year I mean it doesn't live

up to the hype. I definitely don't necessarily

think that's the case but Yeah, I thought it

was quite the film. And I think this is quite

the impressive trilogy of movies that we have

here. And I don't know, it's so odd that these

movies exist in a way. I'm surprised that a movie

studio would allow these movies to happen. It

was not that long ago when... We couldn't have

a Transformers movie with just transformers because

we have to throw humans in it and this work getting

an apes movie with we're apes of those and it's

just odd that that that you're rooting against

humanity, but it works in that way, but I I was

impressed with it on a number of different levels

on a technology standpoint like It you know seems

like it's been said a nauseam at this point,

but it's it's worth saying that like what they're

doing and how far we've come in the world of

CGI is just it's it's incredible you know it's

not just that they look lifelike but the emotion

too is just insane that they can display from

Caesar to Maurice and like just that it's like

I think Amanda said you just forget that you're

not looking at real apes and I think that's the

key to making this all work that I mean if this

doesn't win best special effects Oscar it's that

award shouldn't exist anymore but and I think

Caesar ends up being one of the best cinematic

characters in this for this decade by far just

the journey he goes as a character from the first

film to this and and I thought it did a good

job at subverting expectations in a way from

what it isn't and what you think it might actually

be based upon the title and the marketing and

just the way some characters are set up. I don't

necessarily think it was the best of the trilogy,

but I think I did enjoy Dawn a little bit more,

but I also appreciated how Koba in his presence

was still kind of felt throughout this film and

how... I was not expecting that but you should

certainly see how much of the effects of the

last two movies really have kind of led to this.

I think you bring up an interesting point with

the fact that you do have these two sides I guess

from all intents and purposes. You have like

the human side and then you have the ape side

and what they each represent and you've kind

of had that especially in the in the final two

films of this trilogy and You bring up an interesting

point about, you know, who you're rooting for,

who you're not rooting for, and I've heard a

couple people make statements that they find

it too hard to root against the human race and

to root for the apes, or I guess there's a couple

different camps out there as far as if they're

willing to root against humans or if they're

siding with apes, et cetera, et cetera. Amanda,

how did you kind of reconcile that? Like, were

you rooting for the apes the whole time, or are

you, like, to hell with these jerk humans, or

were you hoping that humans would find... a way

to survive this plague slash war etc i would

say i definitely felt for the apes more but i

think that's part of the setup where caesar is

the main character especially early on you get

to feel his pain so you get to feel that anger

towards the people that he does feel anger towards

um for how he was affected but you also you know

are touched by his I want to say it his humanity

When he cares about other species as well So,

you know that he doesn't he's not just completely

against humans. He knows that there's good and

bad of both So I think that's kind of where I

was sitting too. There's good and there's bad

of both. So it kind of just depended on What

I was getting from the characters like there's

one specific character in war where he's He's

let go by Caesar and he chooses not to kill him

and you think that some redeeming thing is going

to happen with this guy but you see later on

like he he's just a soldier so he's just going

to still be a soldier even though kindness was

shown to him so there's there's definitely showcasing

of bad and good of both apes and humans and I

I want to say I was rooting more for the apes

in war and I would say I tried to back the humans

in Dawn but just how they reacted and acted I

didn't like. I think you bring up a good point

that I think one of the best parts about this

whole trilogy for me is how much it delves into

the world of the gray that things aren't black

and white that this Trilogy lives in the gray

area. It lives in the idea that there are no,

you know, black and white There is no definite

there, you know, it's not like one thing is total

good one thing is total bad So it really I think

does a great job of kind of Dancing in that gray

area and really playing with the idea that everybody

has good and bad qualities and every group has

good and bad qualities But I think what this

trilogy has done it has brought us humans that

there are humans to root for within At least

in the first two films like you have James Franco's

character and you have his dad I guess those

would be the two that that stick out in the first

film and then of course you have Jason Clarke

And his son and a few of the other people in

the second one that stand out that you're just

somewhat still rooting for Dan is there anybody

like that in the third film or does it become

a little bit more where the apes and the humans

are at much more of a contrast without that without

the good guy I guess amongst the humans that

you can root for or do we have one of those characters

that kind of plays that role in this one I would

say for the second and third from that's probably

maybe the one area that they maybe struggle with

the most is the human characters in a way, because

even though the second film had the more heroic

heroes, but they weren't necessarily the main

point they felt like afterthought, which I think

allowed for a better movie because you allowed

the focus on the drama between all the apes.

And in this, I think what we see is necessarily

with the... I don't know, like in a way, I don't

know, like you talk about the gray area, I think

that's a good point, because I don't necessarily

think we're rooting, I mean, yes, you're rooting

for them, but I don't think necessarily that's

what drives the movie in a way. It's like, you're

just experiencing kind of what's occurring in

a way. You're kind of just, you know, you are

a voyeur to this, the downfall, and it's not

necessarily that you're wishing for it, you're

just, you're seeing the inevitable and how...

Kind of humans try to Grasp her straws as much

as they can to stop it from happening. I mean

with the third film I'll be there's what I think

two three maybe Speaking roles of humans that

have more than a handful lines And I think that's

okay, I think I think that like and I can't say

why would that really spoiling it, but I think

ultimately What what it shows is more of the

facade of that character says I think more about

What the film is going for than necessarily the

way that it sets it up originally because you

think it's setting it up for this ultimate eight

first man showdown when it goes a different direction

and I think it's what that direction is purposeful

and I think it knows what it's doing and it's

what I really appreciate about it. I think too,

you do bring up a couple good points here that

this one is titled War for the Planet of the

Apes. the word war and find different you know

meanings and definitions out of that but for

how it seemed like it was marketed as this was

going to be this big all -out actual battle or

more of like an actual war piece really there's

more battling and and war -like elements in dawn

than there is in war like in dawn that's when

we get you know two sides showing you know with

the showdown at the wall we have you know the

the One of the greatest scenes in the whole trilogy

with the the tank, you know as it's approaching

the wall and copas, you know You get the 360

angle and whatnot. So you definitely it seems

like we get more of the actual warlike elements

in dawn Which is very interesting. Like you said

how they kind of went against expectations for

war Amanda were you disappointed that you didn't

get more battle and more war and it was more

kind of I guess on the ground and and kind of

more of the psychological aspects of it versus

all out, you know tanks and guns and blazing

It was more like a concentration camp of the

apes instead of war for the planet of the apes.

I didn't really think of it at the time and now

that you guys are bringing it up, yeah, I mean

that it's kind of confusing that we got more

war in Dawn than we did in actual war for the

planet of the apes. I think it's maybe more for

some of the big moments that happened toward

the end, but it's still a confusing title. And

how it's worded there and Dan you mentioned too

that Caesar might be one of the greatest Characters

that we've received and we've gotten this decade

And I think a lot of people too have been applauding

Andy circus and what he's been able to do with

that character now I know some people like to

write off voice acting or motion capture as not

real acting or for some reason not on the level

of a live -action, you know in body actor, but

with the landscape that we have where even if

you take people that aren't in motion capture

half the time these days people are acting against

a green screen or acting against some type of

cgi after effect etc where are you in the camp

of Is Andy Serkis, is he someone we should be

talking about for an acting award, for an Oscar,

for any type of, whoever's willing to cross that

boundary or is that just like a pipe dream that's

never gonna happen or is someday the old white

men that control some of these award shows gonna

be able to get to the now? They'll be taken over

by apes. I think it's a hard question to answer

because it's... we don't know what's being adjusted

or changed or edited through the power of technology.

I know Matt Reeves has said that they actually

have a version of this film where you can watch

it and it's just the actors performing it without

the CGI and it's an exact movie and with all

the same beats and they go at great lengths to

match all the... uh movements and facial expressions

of the actors and their voices so it's just kind

of a layering upon layering that they do in order

to portray that and i think and so so i think

there's certainly uh reason to that they should

be recognized uh i i think it's important that

to look at that and figure it out in some way.

And I think maybe if you were an Oscar voter

and able to see that footage of the actual performance,

I think that would be a good way to educate yourself

to see if they should be qualifying for these

awards. But I know Oscar voters have difficulty

just watching the movies in general. So giving

them two versions of the same movie might be

too much. I think probably they should, but I

think it's a little more complicated than...

I kind of understand why they aren't, but I think

there has to be a recognition of like... Where

technology is going and figuring out in some

way because these are these type of performances

are only gonna probably increase As the years

go on and we get 18 more avatar sequels and everything

like that They should come up with some other

separate award maybe even like, you know a non

You know, whatever not on screen like you could

put voice acting you could put motion capture

You could put you know, whatever else comes down

the pike later on all these people might be able

to fit into I don't know I think even like someone

like Scholar Johansson and her who couldn't qualify

because she didn't appear on screen, which really

doesn't make sense because if you're able to

give a performance just through voice acting,

doesn't that mean something? But then it's like,

do you count animation in that too? And I'm like,

yeah, maybe you should. If someone gives a great,

like, if Wauber Williams from Aladdin was given

Best Supporting Actor nomination, would anyone

think he didn't deserve it for that performance?

I would say no. So I think that's something people

need to think about. And I think you know regardless

of where you fall on the Andy Serkis point I

think you do make a good point though the The

way the arc that Caesar goes through and I think

it is you know We have to tie into circus to

that but what he's able to do with Caesar in

these three films because Caesar is three completely

at three completely different points. He's portraying

Caesar in three completely different ways. The

emotion, the experience, the naivety, the youth

versus the seasoned older version that we get

in this film. The fact that he's been able to

pull off what he has with Caesar and the fact

that the people that are doing the writing or

the directing have gotten what they have out

of this character. I mean, I cannot think of

anybody that we've gotten to see In such different

stages of their life and in such different emotional

Stages as well to be pulled off like this. It's

just I think it's just remarkable I mean, I know

you kind of already said that it's one of the

best characters So I'm just kind of echoing that

Amanda Are you impressed with what all the different

things that we've got to see through Caesar's

lens throughout these three films from a little

baby? To what we see in this one. Definitely.

I think that we see this huge Ark really with

him and that's that's anybody I mean you can

hope that you're dynamic enough in your life

to go from You know this this childlike baby

version that we saw all the way to the the saltier

version as an adult and see him grow and come

into his own and See why he holds the beliefs

that he does So I think they did a great job

and showing us that showing us his story making

us vest in him as a character and I think Andy

Serkis was amazing and I think that Everything

that he does because he puts his whole body into

it too. And so I mean if there's there's so much

more emphasis on body language and showing emotion

the right way and It's it's I would say it's

harder I would think that they would deserve

more props for promotion capture like that and

just real quick I want to get your take because

you have a different a unique perspective when

it comes to part of what we get in these films

because obviously not all of the apes are able

to speak and They do communicate through different

types of Signing and different elements like

that and as someone who studied sign language

went to school for it What was how did you like

or dislike or did it bother you or do you think

they did a good job? And how they're showing

the communication through the apes that can't

speak. I think some of it really is super close

to real sign and Some of it also is largely what

the apes are able to do with you know their movements

So it's it's definitely a primitive Form of gesturing

mixed in with some actual sign language. So I

think it's a great way to show how they communicate

and how their communication advances can match

it up with actual sign language obviously more

than someone that doesn't have that eye for that

so I was curious if they were if they were using

stuff that was similar to what you were uh had

learned through school some of it's a lot more

vague you know it's just more gesturing but they

use the same gestures over and over so it's it's

definitely yeah it's it's something that they've

identified as an actual sign like a use it might

not be you know what we as Americans in this

region use but some of it is interesting another

thing that i'd like to get into before we get

into other elements of the film you like and

maybe some themes and stuff like that we've been

talking a little bit about characters so obviously

we should briefly touch on the human character

that is involved here, which is Woody Harrelson

as the main one. We'll save any discussion on

the other two maybe for spoilers, but as far

as Woody Harrelson and his depiction of the Colonel,

a lot of people love it and a lot of people,

this is the part that they didn't necessarily

care for. Dan, where do you sit as far as how

did Woody Harrelson stack up in this film and

how does he compare it to what we got in the

other films with James Franco and Jason Clarke?

I think Woody Harrelson is an American treasure.

Kind of go back to how I enjoyed it. What subverted

expectations, a lot of that centers on his character.

I thought he did a great job. He did a lot with

what he was given. He had a really difficult

sequence where he was basically given the exposition

of the entire film and he thought... lesser actor

would not have been able to make that scene work

nearly as effective. I do think it's probably

the most problematic scene in the movie, but

still he makes it work and much more than it

would have with a lesser actor. I think he certainly

is able to construct that character with a limited

amount of time and screen time, so I thought

he was effective. I thought he would have a bigger

presence in the movie going in. I thought he

would certainly He would see more of him, but

I was okay that we didn't if that makes sense

I thought that he was a bit of a driving force

in this I don't think that he was As big as I

thought he was going to be But he also reminded

me a lot of Sam Jackson's character in Kong Like

he was like a borderline zealot. Like some of

his rationale wasn't rational. So I couldn't

really get behind his motivations whatsoever.

But I mean, I guess crazy shit happens in a post

-apocalyptic ape world and you lose your damn

mind or something. I don't know. I'll give you

guys a bunch of stuff that you can jump off any

part of this. But I think another thing that

I really loved about this film was I thought

it was very subtle with a lot of different things

and I just kept thinking over and over again

about the subtlety in different elements. As

far as I thought the score was subtle but effective,

I thought that they found some very underplayed

and subtle ways to add just enough, I don't really

want to call it comedic moments, but just enough

levity I guess to make you not as depressed as

you could have been during this film with the

amount of emotional actions and decisions and

you know things that are happening to people

that are going on I mean it could really take

you down a notch and just have you wallowing

in a pool of your own tears but I think they

had just enough levity just enough comedy I think

the score is subtle and I just thought a lot

of the things they did were just Enough like

they never would seem to go overboard like even

the you know, there's not like an overboard as

far as cheesy dialogue I didn't think there's

it doesn't go You know and create some artificial

drama where it didn't need to exist for me So

I just really liked how much they kind of found

a balance between different film aspects or different

aspects that they're playing with I don't know

if you guys felt that or not or Dan if you want

to bounce off any of those types of Ideas and

what your take was on the film? To go off the

score, yeah, I thought the score was especially

moving and effective. You know, I don't think,

but thinking back to the other two films, the

scores didn't really resonate all that much,

but for this, it certainly did click. And especially

I think in the more somber moment. It was certainly

effective and when you had some of those emotional

beats and as Amanda mentioned them like where

you basically have a concentration camp and I

think that Certainly when you have some of the

big moments within that the score is a big key

making those work so I I would I would second

your your enjoyment of that Amanda, what do you

think about the score or any of the I guess somewhat?

Comedic or lighter moments that they tried to

put in there to make it so you could survive

this thing I Don't really know about the score

Unless it's some big awesome soundtrack with

a bunch of songs that I enjoyed like I'm probably

not gonna um like have anything good to say about

it if it's something super annoying and obvious

then yeah i'll say some bad stuff about it but

in between there i'm not great at at discerning

you know what was awesome and what wasn't and

anything subtle um but the comedic moments i

liked zoo ape yeah he was cool to me at first

i thought he was a little too cheesy but i think

that he was used well um i think his actions

and seeing his reactions to what was going on

was also pretty cool and funny at the same time

sometimes. One of the hosts on the other podcast

that will remain nameless that I talked about

war for the plan of the apes on compared the

zoo ape to Jar Jar Binks and absolutely hated

him. Do you think that's fair that he was somewhat

Jar Jar Binks like or do you think he didn't

even come close to that? He was way more useful

and capable and than Jar Jar Binks ever could

be. I think Jar Jar Binks only just like stumbled

around and accidentally like killed some clone

soldiers or whatever. But this guy actually...

put in work and even though he was scared he

did things to help and turned out to be capable.

Dan what did you think about their idea to include

this zoo ape or an ape that wasn't necessarily

from this original group another ape out there

that represents maybe different possibilities

for the future or whatever what did you think

and how it was executed? I think it's certainly

it's one of those little pieces that they put

throughout this one to kind of show we're heading

to give you an idea of that, you know, leading

into what would be eventually the world from

the first movie that was created. And I feel

like this, this entire franchise has done a really

good job of that of kind of laying the seeds

of, of showing how we eventually get to the point

where it all, where it all started from, you

know, the first movie where they're in the background

on the news, the ship that traveled to Hessington

to the ape world is launched and And to this,

I think what that shows is obviously that the

apes that we've been following are not the only

apes that have certainly been affected in the

way that they have. So I thought it was useful

in that end. I can understand why some of the

comedy or the way that ape was portrayed wouldn't

work for some people. At times, it did seem a

little totally inactive. inconsistent with some

of the moments, especially in like the final

sequences. It seemed like out of place a little

bit, but I would by no means equate it to like

Georgia Brinks because, you know, I didn't hate

that character by any means. And I thought there

was actually, you know, at least somewhat of

a story with that character. And I found humor

in that character. from just Steve Zahn's performance

to just the awkwardness of him as a character.

I mean, some of the humor may have seemed a little

bit on the nose, like using the binoculars the

wrong way or something like that. But I also

think in a movie that is so deeply depressing

as this, and sometimes you do need a little bit

of a light to make you not completely lose your

mind. He also had some depressing ass moments

though too like when you're getting some of his

backstory in that like snowy little Like enclosure

that they were in when they first are like sitting

with him You you find out that he's had some

sadness in his life, too Like there's he you

know the the funny guy this movie still was touched

by You know the awful stuff that was going on

here. I think this movie definitely also had

a lot to To offer different people like I think

if you are a fan of Drama it has that in loads

and emotional beats if you're a fan of visual

effects There's a lot to look at and and like

from that standpoint. There's action I think

there's you know a fantasy slash sci -fi element

to enjoy and I think it tackles a bunch of themes

I'm curious on your guys's takes you feel because

I was impressed with the number of different

themes, and this has been true for just about

every film in this franchise, maybe the Mark

Wahlberg notwithstanding, but especially in many

of those original five films and in these three,

the number of themes, the number of social commentary

items that they're able to do, and especially

just in this one. variety of things that they're

able to tackle without it ever seeming like it

gets bogged down or convoluted I feel like they

achieve a pretty good balance like if you just

take this film you have You know religious themes

you have family playing a big part different

familial relationships you have Male -female

relationships going on you have a night this

idea of unity sacrifice survival Tolerance obviously

plays a huge part of the entire franchise Dean

What did you think of? Some of the different

thematic elements that they're able to kind of

touch on and do you think that they? Achieved

a balance or do you think that some of it gets

kind of lost in them in the mix? I? Don't think

that's really gets lost I think I feel like Depending

on who you are in the way you preach the film

certain ones will stand out I think for me that

the The story that, the allegory that certainly

permeated the most for me was the, you know,

the promised land story. In a way, how this has

become, you know, where you have this leader

attempting to come over, overcome his own obstacles

to lead his people out of bondage into. This

you know, the circum promised land and it follows

those beats pretty well that you would expect

all the way up to the very end and within that

obviously you it's saying a lot but also like

I said regarding I think It says a lot about

the hubris of man, you know and to me it all

fits it all it's kind of this ultimate like this

jigsaw puzzle that all kind of puts puts puts

it together and after the end, you take a step

back and, oh, hey, you have this movie and everything

fits really well. I never felt like anything

was necessarily forced. Yeah, something may be

more overt than others, but I think that's okay.

I think everything really was well -earned. Yeah,

I know a couple other ones that I forgot to mention

that obviously play a huge part in this one would

be vengeance, uh, forgiveness and those types

of things. Amanda, was there a theme that stood

out that kind of or something you connected to

in the story that worked more for you or did

you feel like you were getting bombarded with

a lot of different aspects and couldn't make

heads or tails of any of it? I really didn't

discern one element from another. I think I was

just kind of bombarded with emotion really, so

I was too blinded by what they were all feeling.

to even really think about a bigger picture there,

or a hidden agenda, or anything like that. There

was some really heartbreaking stuff, especially

between Caesar and his family, and his little

guy, and seeing some of the stuff that you see

in their little concentration camp thing is hard.

Another interesting thing that they do in this

film is they find a way to, like I said, this

is always blurring the lines, it's not just about

apes, it's not just about humans, so you do have

a situation in this film where you have the side

that is majority ape centric that does have humans

on their side as well as apes that are fighting

on the human side. How do you think those two

elements worked for you Dan and what do you think

about the idea to kind of make that distinction

that you're not just having a uniform side on

each side of the wall here. You have apes and

humans interacting for both camps. Yeah and I

think it was very effective. right from the start

and where I thought, like where I thought the

opening scene was going and where the first,

let's just say the first time you see a hand

from a gorilla and it's not, it ended up a lot

differently than I expected. I thought that was

used well. Like I said, I liked how the events

of the last film still very much have bleed into

this. Coba's shadow is certainly still here and

affecting, you know, Caesar on a more personal

level. And then you have the fact that you still

have a lot of apes that Or loyal to to to cope

and I kind of like that I I wasn't sure I was

a little worried at first that was going to be

traveling similar ground that it did with the

previous movie and you would have like a you

know playing the Ape Civil War again or something

of that nature, but I liked where it goes. I

like just the the way they portrayed it calling

them donkeys and like just like the little things

they did to identify who the good monkeys are

and who the bad monkeys are shaving like things

in there and the fur marking you know mark at

first I thought it was just them being cruel

and I'm realizing oh no it's just because you

know to them all because the races and all monkeys

look alike to them. They have to make sure, or

they're not monkeys, they're apes, I'm sorry,

that's so sorry. So they have to, in order to

identify who they are, I'm like, oh, that makes

actually, again, you're talking about subtle

things, and I like little touches like that,

so. Amanda, what did you think of those characters

that were kind of playing for the other side

at different times, or the dichotomy between...

One ape in particular gorilla in particular that

is on the human side to compare to the character

you talked about before Because we basically

have two characters that are that are fighting

on Woody Harrelson's camp with the I believe

they called him the preacher the the marksman

with the gun or with the crossbow etc you had

him who like you said we've had moments where

it seems like he has seen the air in Woody Harrelson's

ways and maybe will betray him. And then you

also have the gorilla character who is part of

the ape family, I guess you could say. And is

he gonna betray the side that he has decided

to fight for because it's more powerful or because

he thinks it might be the winning side? How do

you think those two characters work for you?

I don't know. I felt bad for the donkeys, but

I also... Was kind of you know, like I don't

care like you chose to do that you're there for

a reason you went to them You know, it's sick

that they would put themselves in that position.

You know what I mean? And it it was sick to see

how they would treat their own Yeah, I think

that's for sure. I think it does set up some

interesting things to see will one or will the

other one eventually? See theirs in their way

or or make a different choice or go down a different

arc And I think it's a very interesting way that

they let it play out as far as those two characters

go Last thing before we get into final thoughts

and then into some spoiler talk I have had heard

some comments on social media especially on Twitter

film Twitter about The amount of references to

possible, you know Some other films that it might

be paying homage to or it might be ripping off

according to some people Dan were you Were you

aware of some of that? things that were being

used throughout the film or were you so ramped

up in the story that you didn't really think

about that until after the fact. I know a lot

of people saying things like Apocalypse Now and

a few other films that they're seeing in this

film, The Ten Commandments, possibly The Great

Escape, The Bridge Over the River Kwai, Ben Heard,

different things that I've heard people throw

out there. Do you think it was too much of those

being touched on here and there or do you think

it fit within the story and it's not that distracting?

I guess, I don't know, I wasn't thinking of the

movies, I was thinking of the actual, I know

people know this, but Ben -Hur is based on a

book. So that's kind of what I was thinking.

Honestly, when I was watching other movie references

outside of the franchise itself that didn't even

occur to me, I was more thinking of the real

-life ramifications, the real -life kind of...

reflections it was making, whether it being biblical,

or, you know, historical based, that, that to

me is more the connection that I felt was going.

You know, maybe there were specific scenes that

they were homaging, but I personally didn't really

pick up on it, per se. But when I was watching,

I felt to me the message, especially considering

the subject matter was not was more geared towards

kind of its reflection on Real life and society

more so than filmmaking. So that's why I kind

of took that out of it All right, Amanda. Let's

start with you What are your final thoughts on

war for the planet apes before we get into spoilers

and what kind of grade would you give this one?

So I don't think I was as wowed by it as I was

the others I was definitely touched and moved

and Was pulled through some crazy Stuff, but

I think that Woody Harrelson being such like

a zealot kind of took me out of it I didn't I

didn't really dig that part of it. So I'm gonna

give it like a seven Okay, fair enough Dan. What

about you any final thoughts from you and what

kind of grade would you give or for the point

of the eight? Man the tough questions. Uh, yeah,

it's interesting to like It's hard, it feels

unfair, but I was like looking and comparing

this to the past film of Dawn. I keep messing

up the name. I think what that made me have that

this one didn't for me, I think there are certain

just like ultimate highs. Like you mentioned

the bow sequences. Maybe that was what I was

maybe looking for a little bit more, because

I thought the action within the... It was okay.

It had its moments, but it wasn't as impactful.

And I think that was partially because of what

it was going for. But I think it's a supremely

well crafted film. It's interesting because it

just kind of, I don't know, it's not necessarily

like specific moments that really have stuck

with me as much as some of the other films where

it's more just the overall. kind of mood and

journey that I went on that I felt was the most

effective and why I enjoyed it the most, which

is not usually the way I tend to enjoy movies.

I tend to, when I get out of films, I often just

have certain sequences and scenes are put together,

but it was different with this. I thought it

was one of the better crafted action franchises.

whatever you want to call it that we've seen.

Like I said, I still can't believe this movie

is being made because it so much goes against

the grain when it comes to what you expect for

blockbuster or summer blockbuster. This, by all

means, could be an art film. I could legitimately

see some of the scripting being nominated for

some way. For me, it's tough. I still want to

see it again. I'm still kind of going back and

forth over my final grade, but I'll think I'll

rest on an eight right now with a high eight,

if that makes any sense, with a chance, certainly

a chance of going up. I just feel like I need

to see it again to really come to a final conclusion.

Like I said, it's my most anticipated move of

the year, and I walked away happy. Ultimately

the most important thing. Yeah, I walked away

very happy as well. I think you do make some

good points I think there is one thing that it's

missing and that dawn especially had and even

rise a little bit those iconic moments or those

iconic scenes like the first time you hear Caesar

speak or the first time you see Caesar or the

other apes on horseback or like we talked about

that tank sequence where you know, it's that

360 shot of them attacking the wall There's just

some very memorable moments that you got in those

first two films and I don't know if anything

stood out to me as far as this one goes as a

moment like that so I don't know if it necessarily

had that I think it had just as much emotional

punch or probably more than than the other films

I think that's something that that the first

and the third film maybe honed in on a little

bit more than the second one not saying that's

good or bad but yeah I was definitely pleased

I my immediate reaction was that this is on par

with something like the Lord of the Rings trilogy

like as far as action or franchise related trilogies

like this is up there like I don't think they

missed on any of these films I think they're

all above average you know good films so I wonder

part of me wonders if this obviously visually

it wouldn't have been able to happen you know

in a different time period but let's say we took

like all of the superhero films out of the equation

and say that we haven't had you know any of the

Marvel Cinematic Universe or things like that.

Would people be reacting different to this Planet

of the Apes trilogy? Because to me this could

be like this could have been like this generation's

Jurassic Park or this generation's Star Wars

or something that just Came out of nowhere and

just like hits you with stuff that you've never

seen before and had some type of like crazy effect

and I don't know if it if its effect is lessened

by sheer number of blockbusters we get and you

know the success of the Marvel Cinematic Universe

or not that that has anything necessarily to

do with Planet Apes but just what we're used

to seeing when we go to the theater because to

me this is something that's like deserves more

credit like the trilogy deserves more credit

for what has been able to do both from a visual

standpoint and from a story standpoint with what

like you said something that has there's three

humans in this movie there's literally three

humans as far as speaking roles in this film

name another blockbuster that has been able to

pull that off so i don't know i think like it

deserves more attention and more credit than

it even is getting but i do appreciate the fact

that you know people have been high on this this

franchise in this trilogy overall i just wonder

If it wasn't for all the other films that we

get on a nonstop basis, if maybe this would even

be elevated to a different level amongst people

that haven't seen this type of thing before on

the big screen. I think what hurts it is that

it's not as entertaining, painting driven. Like

it's not necessarily a movie like Trash Park.

I love it. I think it doesn't necessarily have

the deep thematic elements of this. but it has

a, it's like a, you know, it is that thrill ride

where I don't necessarily think these movies

have that they're very much more story driven

and then the last 20 minutes you get some really

kick ass action sequences. So I think that's

maybe why some people might get a little, you

know. We'll think summer action. They probably

think more Bob Astick and things of that nature

and when they get this it's if not, you know

Your second film was basically Shakespeare with

apes and I think for some people that's not what

they're looking for for summer blockbusters So

you don't that may be why some in like the more

general audience don't kind of cheer for these

as you would some of the other movies. I don't

know. That's just my guess. Yeah, that makes

sense. I can see that. I did forget to give a

score, so I'm with you guys, especially you,

Dan. I am like hovering right there between an

eight and a nine. I'm either a real low nine

or a real high eight, somewhere in that field.

I do want to see it again and kind of even have

more time to reflect on it, but I was very...

I mean, this is near the top of my list, if not

the top of my list for the year so far, so I

enjoyed this one. quite a bit. We're going to

take a very quick break and when we come back

we're going to do a little small amount of some

spoiler talk because I think it is necessary

with this film and the trajectory that this franchise

is on so we'll be right back after the break.

Hey guys, it's Dr. Masolo and Hard Candy Mandy.

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Alright, thanks for sticking with us. We are

back to talk spoilers for War for the Planet

of the Apes. Amanda, we will start with you.

Obviously, you mentioned a couple different times

in your conversation on the film that there is

a lot of emotional beats. There's a lot of depressing,

sad moments that are going on here. Did any of

them hit you more unexpected or hit you with

a little more impact than you thought or than

others? Like everything revolving around Caesar

and his youngest. What was the youngest baby's

name? Cornelia. Yeah, yeah it uh everything about

that was so heartbreaking when first he sees

his wife and eldest son blue eyes killed and

he wants to know where the little one is and

just when he sees the little one finally like

an emotion surrounding that and then when he

sees them again um and he has to basically give

him up to make sure that he's safe while he goes

in and acts his revenge or whatever he needs

to. So the emotion of giving up his kid. was

also super hard and then when he sees him again

at the concentration camp and the noises the

little guy was making was so awful and heartbreaking

and then you know all the emotion when they finally

get to where they're trying to go and it's everything

basically that they wanted and Caesar's you know

final moments like everything surrounding that

was super super sad too Some of the people that

I've been talking to on that podcast that will

remain nameless had a big problem with Caesar

And the vengeance angled and I wanted to get

your take on this Dan because they were saying

that they couldn't get behind it They couldn't

understand it. They couldn't buy the fact that

you would be willing to abandon one of your your

only remaining child to go after the Colonel

like Caesar does. You have a child, so you have

more insight than we do on this one, but what

did you think about that? That was an unexpected

question. But what did you think about that?

You see that your wife and your child has just

been killed in your house, in front of you basically,

and obviously the emotions and the anger and

the vengeance and all the sadness that's going

to be going through your head. Do you think it's

believable that Caesar then kind of goes out

on this quest or this journey with his band of

brothers because you basically have, you know,

four or five characters that are following him

on this trek to kind of get back at Woody Harrelson's

character. Do you find that that's believable

or do you think that most characters would have

stayed with the remaining child and gone a different

path? See, I think it's more than just revenge,

though. I think that's a piece of it. But I think

part of his mission, too, is understanding that

they're going for him. Like he is what's bringing

this, you know, the humans, he's the one who's

causing them to death basically. And I think

his, you know, his overall first thought is if

he goes after them, the target will be on him.

and that will allow for his family, his other

apes, his son, to get to that promised land that

they're very much hoping to get to. So I don't

necessarily think it was only visions that were

driving him. Certainly that was his ultimate

goal. But I think there was more to it in the

sense of him also feeling like this would be

the only way for them to actually achieve that

goal of the promised land was to bring the fight

towards the soldiers to get their guns on him

so they'll stop trying to achieve or kill all

the apes. I think what we often see is that he

makes bad choices in a way, and not necessarily

bad, but ignorant choice just because he's still

trying to figure this all out. I think the why

it worked for me is because what you see is like

His entire you know journey is about is is he

better than humans is I think what he's struggling

with is that maybe isn't is it that animal instinct

taking over where We're did for kova where you

just need that vengeance and I I bought that

because it's not necessarily just about You know,

it's it's more than just the vengeance in a way.

It's about who he is as a character as a as a

as an ape how he's evolved or not evolved. And

I think it's all those things that he's juggling

with. And also on top of that, the hope that

he'll be able to lead to a better future for

the other apes as well. So I never had an issue

with that. I mean, the same question to you.

Did you buy the reason for Caesar to leave as

far as drawing them away from the apes, getting

them to safety? And what did you think about

the parallels that they're making Caesar into

a very dancing on the edge of being almost a

Coba -like character in this film at a point?

I never got the vibe that he was turning out

to be like Coba or was so specifically... acting

in a way that was Koba -like. I think that he

was motivated by a little bit more vengeance

than normal here, but that's totally to be expected.

So maybe some of his decisions were a little

clouded, but I think it makes sense when he knew

that they were coming for him. So if he was going

to stay with them, they were going to come again

to him where he was. So he was just going to

go to them headed off and take the fight to them

so that made sense but hard decision nevertheless

yeah for sure um dan and the same question that

i asked kind of amanda at the beginning there's

a lot of death in this film there's a lot of

death and um some of it may work more than others

Were there times where you thought it was more

effective? Were there times where it was more

shocking? We definitely see, like Amanda mentioned,

Caesar's family, most of his family killed. We

have some of the people that follow Caesar on

this trek to hunt down the Colonel that don't

make it through this. We see humans that die

during this film, and obviously the big one at

the end of the film that we see as well. How

do you think this film handled the sheer amount

of people that don't survive it? I think some

of the big deaths that didn't work, like I thought

like could have been better handled were actually

the death of Cesar's son and wife. I think I

got what they were kind of going for in that

sequence. It's supposed to be kind of a mystery,

but it felt, I don't know, at that moment I thought

it could have been bigger, more impactful than

it was in a way because it happens off screen,

it seems kind of confusing in the moment and

then like it, I don't know, especially since

both of those characters were such a huge element

in the second film that like it felt like their

deaths, even though they're a driving force in

the film, the actual occurrence of it happening

didn't, I don't know, it seemed almost like an

afterthought in a way, like it didn't seem kind

of like cloudy. I thought the, one of the, the

death of obviously Woody Harrelson character,

that one I kind of struggle with because I, pardon

me, like, I, the poetry of that moment is great,

like how you ultimately see this man who did

everything he did and then now he is where he's

at. You know, he's now kind of became what he

feared. But I struggle with like, Like I understand

why Caesar didn't kill him But I also wonder

like would Caesar let him kill himself like is

like would he would he have stopped that from

happening and Or just stood there and watched

it occur It isn't is that the same or similar

to killing him in a way? And I don't know that's

one like I can kind of see why it isn't because

it's you know He's making that choice himself.

It's kind of inevitability based upon what's

occurring to him, but it seemed like in that

for that moment, for that journey to come to

its full conclusion, Caesar would have done a

little bit more. It felt like he was, I don't

know, almost finding like a cop out in a way

where like, yeah, he's not killing him, but in

that element, obviously, and just in how he's

allowing him to kill himself. It just felt like

that. It seemed to contradict where they wanted

to take the character. I can see that too. I'm

wrestling with the way that Woody Harrelson's

character comes to his conclusion as well. Amanda,

what did you think about the whole idea that

there's this disease out there that, or the disease,

same disease, but it's morphing into a different

form now and creating humans, kind of de -evolving

them in a way and obviously the way that we find

Woody Harrelson, who has been up to this point

a very bombastic, very, you know, demonstrative

figure now just... being a complete alcoholic

mess and killing himself i didn't buy how fast

it happened um i think that if it was something

where they were you know offspring was coming

around with this degenerative form or defect

then yeah I could believe that but happening

like within a matter of hours from contact I

don't I didn't believe that and it was a little

anti -climactic almost to see him in that state

instead of having him fulfilled in the way you

think that he's going to but I think as far as

Caesar just Watching him or letting him kill

himself or whatever. I still feel like I feel

like he still thought that justice needed to

be served and This guy still had some atoning

to do He killed his own frickin son. He's killing

his own men all the stuff that he did to the

apes. I think Caesar still Wanted that closure

wanted that justice, but he didn't need it to

be Done by his own hand then at that point Yeah

That's definitely a sequence like I said, I'm

still wrestling with I can kind of see both both

angles as it being a cop -out and as it being

something that was Right, I think the death obviously

that works the best for me is the ultimate death

of Caesar at the end Not to mention the fact

that if he had survived everything that he's

been through in the last two films It might I

don't know if he's gone into superhero status

at that point because this guy had been through

quite a bit but I think the way that they handled

his death was was phenomenal and very emotional

obviously we've been we've come to love him as

a character we've seen him through three movies

you know from a little baby all the way through

here so a lot to kind of be invested in but i

think my favorite part about how they handled

his death was the fact that there was no pomp

and circumstance that there was no you know It

was just Maurice, you know, I mean as far as

the being right there and I also like the fact

that they made it more real than Hollywood in

that scene instead of going the you know the

I guess more like the Spielberg route or more

the Hollywood route where They created more drama

than needed to be they made it real because they

leave Cornelius off in the distance running around

like a kid would a kid would not know the gravity

of the situation he wouldn't think that anything

bad is happening to his dad etc so he would be

off free enjoying the freedom enjoying being

around and being to celebrate with the other

kids running around being like you know acting

like a kid would so i really appreciated the

fact that they left that element in as kind of

like this fact that that nobody really understood

what was going on caesar is this you know un

hurtable, you know, you know, almost like an

immortal figure to them. So the idea that they

aren't even thinking about his safety at that

point seemed more realistic to me than if they

would have tried to lead some type of forced

dramatic moment. How did you think Dan handled

Caesar's death at the end? You know, I think

it makes sense. I mentioned it's the promised

land story and with every promised land story

the Person taking in the promised land doesn't

make it to actually into the promised land. You

got to see it You got the view from afar, but

he and I I felt I don't know I felt like if he

didn't die would be a disservice to the series

which I thought that's kind of a morbid thing

to say but It was interesting though. Like what

killed him and in a way, you know, it was just

you know Eric to the side which Going back to

the you know the biblical allegory. I'm sure

that is not a mess you know as He's certainly

a Christ like figure But I thought I thought

that would work well, and I just love the relationship

between him Maurice and I Maurice is another

great character a great presence throughout the

entire movie and I'm in You know Caesar looks

amazing with the special effects, but something

about the movement of of Maurice in just the

ring. I don't know, I could just watch a movie

of him just like in a zoo hanging out, I guess,

I don't know. The effects that go into his creation

are just crazy. I think the other thing that

I wanted to get your guys take on before we wrap

up is the idea of all the different references

that they're making and the connections that

they're making to the original film. Obviously,

we have a lot of very careful naming sequences

going on with Caesar, with Cornelius, with Nova,

the other female human character that we haven't

spoke of yet and kind of getting your guys take

on that character in general. But a lot of little

things, Dan, like you were talking about that

are the seeds that are placed to get us to the

point where We're heading into the original set

of films. But before I get to Dan and Amanda,

what was your take on Nova as a character? And

obviously, for those that don't know, Nova is

coming straight from one of the characters in

the original series, as is Cornelius and Caesar.

Those are all names that have been repeated now

and not by accident. So what did you feel like

as far as the girl in this film? I think she

was an emotional tool. She was something to move

the emotion on in certain directions at certain

times um, I think she did good. I don't think

that um I don't know it's not like her character

would have You know been the make or break aspect,

but I think that she was like super serviceable

Dan what about your take on nova and your take

on some of these other ties into the original

series? I thought her character was interesting.

Like I Like the introduction to her character

was, you know, what kind of struck me too was

like the reaction to, I don't know if it was

her father, but whoever was taking care of her

and like, just the lack of. impact that had and

I don't know if that was supposed to be kind

of providing evidence into what this new strain

of the virus is doing to humans like if it's

kind of removing some sort of emotion or you

know if it's dulling that element of because

that very much is an animal reaction in a way

I mean obviously certain animals have been known

to show remorse and things of that nature but

I don't know if that was kind of the point of

that showing that she's losing that idea of family

based upon the new development of this disease.

But I thought our character worked. I thought,

you know, you could probably make this movie

and not have that character and not much changes

per se. But I think certainly in a situation

where it's not necessarily the character, it's

what the character represents, that's important,

so. Absolutely. Yeah, I like the way that they

kind of tied some of that stuff in I like that

she gives another element of a human being on

the ape side and that she almost wants she wants

to be recognized as an ape and I thought it led

to some cool relationship aspects between her

and Maurice and her and I'm forgetting his name,

but the other gorilla that's in the in the band

that's journeying together. I thought that led

to some pretty cool moments there. And I do think

it's interesting how they are somewhat tying

into some of the original series, which gives

me to the last question for you guys. What do

you think as far as the future of this franchise?

Is this where it should end? We've had a great

trilogy for all intents and purposes. All three

movies worked very well. And should we leave

it at this or do you want to see further connections

to there's talk of, you know, sequels, a fourth

film or possible other films that may connect

back to the original? franchise and the original

five films, do we need more or should they leave

it be? Dan, what do you think? Well, I didn't

want to see the first one, so maybe I'm not the

best person to ask. Maybe my advice would be

wrong. I really hope it ends. Just because I

feel like it reminds me of, like I felt like

the Bored Old Dominion. It was like, that's it.

You don't need more. I wanted to see more. And

then when we got more, it was like, yeah, we

should have ended with the last movie. And with

this, I just feel without Caesar there, where

could you go with it? Do you end up just making

a straight remake of the first plan of the apes?

And maybe there's something to say with that,

but I think you end up losing a lot because a

lot of what made the Planet of Apes so effective

was not knowing what was actually happening to

the end in a way. Don't know like this team like

I'm impressed with what they're doing But if

they feel like Matt Reeves and his writers and

stuff feel like they have have room for fourth

film Okay, go with it, but I if it were to end

and we not get another apes movie I would also

be completely okay with that so I Feel like one

more After this wouldn't be the same. We don't

have Caesar. You know, what would it really be

and we've already got The movies where it's going

do we need another one to? Shoo us along even

further or should there be some room some do

we get here? One moment where it butts up right

against the other film Yeah, I can see you know

some people wanting more, but I can say I am

fine with it being done I think it's a great

trilogy on its own, and I think they could leave

well enough alone But maybe they got something

to trick up their sleeve that we don't know about

but definitely let us know if you agree or disagree

with our take on war for the planet of the Apes.

Overall, positive reviews from all three of us.

You can let us know, like we said in the intro,

by going to the website, ecastradio .com, or

interacting with us on Twitter. We already gave

those Twitter handles out, but definitely would

be interested to see if you guys agree or disagree

with War for the Planet of the Apes, and if you

want to see more, or if it should end here, that

would be the question that we would pose for

this podcast on the website. Should we have more

Planet of the Apes films, or is this where it

should end? So please answer those questions

on the website, and then we'll... react to that

when we see those responses so that's it for

this week we'll be back next week with some more

getting back into our finishing off a couple

different spotlights that we have and announcing

maybe some ways that you can interact with the

show and determine the future of at least one

series that we'll be doing here coming up and

also like we've been announcing in all the other

posts there is a contest going on so if you want

to win a six pack of video game movies that we've

been discussing in one of our other spotlights.

Just leave us a review on iTunes. Go to iTunes,

leave us a review, any review that is left there

automatically gets entered into a contest to

win that six pack of DVD slash Blu -rays that

are all about video game films. So that's it

for this week. Tune in next week for another

chance to listen to The Cinema Geeks.