Cary Grant Retrospective – Arsenic and Old Lace Review

Hi, this is John Delancey and you are listening

to the GeekCast Radio Network. Don't drink the

water, the wine, and probably don't touch anything.

This week we are discussing Arsenic and Old Lace,

directed by Frank Capra, starring Cary Grant,

Elaine Harbour, Raymond Massey, Peter Laurie,

Josephine Hill, and Jeet Adair. Filmed in 1941,

but it wasn't released until 1944, so not to

compete with the ongoing stage version. Mortimer

Brewster, a drama critic known for mocking marriage,

surprises everyone by marrying Elaine Harper,

the minister's daughter who lives next door.

After the wedding, he visits his beloved aunt,

Abby and Martha Brewster, at their Brooklyn home.

To his horror, Mortimer discovers a corpse hidden

in the window seat. The kindly old ladies calmly

explain that they help lonely old men by serving

them elderberry wine laced with arsenic and cyanide.

Their brother Teddy, who believes he is Theodore

Roosevelt, digs graves in the cellar thinking

he's working on the Panama Canal to bury the

victims. So far, they've killed 12 men. As Mortimer

struggles to process this madness, his long -lost

brother Jonathan, a violent criminal, returns

home with his accomplice Dr. Einstein. No relation.

Jonathan plans to use the house as a hideout

and add his own body to the chaos. His botched

plastic surgery makes him look like Boris Korloff

and that becomes a running joke. The house descends

into force with policemen wandering in, bodies

being hidden and shifted, and Mortimer desperately

trying to protect Elaine from discovering the

truth. In the end, Jonathan is arrested, Teddy

is committed to a sanitarium, and And one of

her learns he was adopted, meaning he doesn't

share the Brewster's family streak of madness.

Relieved, he happily reunites with Elaine to

begin their married life. On release, the film

was universally praised, and that has only increased

in years since. For example, AFI listed it at

number 30 on their 100 Years, 100 Laughs list,

and it currently has an 86 on Rotten Tomatoes.

Cary Grant, though, wasn't as positive. He said

he thought his performance was way too over the

top and wished Jimmy Stewart played his role.

Was Cary Grant being too harsh on himself? Does

it really truly stand up to the test of time?

Back to Kevin and myself to discuss. Hello and

welcome to episode 226 of the Cinema Geeks. I

am one of your Cinema Geeks Optimus Solo and

joining me as always is the comic concierge.

Hello, Dan. Hey, how are you doing? I'm doing

good. I'm excited to get back at our Cary Grant

retrospective. It's I guess it's kind of fitting

because I know this is going to date the podcast

for people that listen to it like months or years

from now or whatever may be the case, but In

all of the stores there are Halloween decorations

and costumes out. So like this is our our journey

into the spooky Realm, I guess I don't know.

It's it's not that spooky But I know some people

think it is it definitely has some tones to it

with like the graveyard and obviously there's

Death and murder and there's definitely a very

fall feel to this I know they put they brought

in a lot of different like leaves and like stuff

to kind of make the The settings seem spooky

and then there's like a weird witch. Like image

at the end of the film. Which I know some people

think that the characters in here are witches

without if they haven't seen the film. Like I

guess there's like that vibe out there that they

think there's going to be something more supernatural

happening here, but I know we're getting the

way ahead of ourselves, but. Uh, what is your

background? I know we talked about it briefly

at the end of the episode, but for those that

haven't tuned into that episode, what's your

background with arsenic and old lace? What did

you kind of come to this watch with? And, uh,

what was your experience with both the play and

the film prior to this? Oh yeah, this is one

I have seen before. It was, it's been a while

though. It's been like over 10 years since I've

seen that. Um, but before that, before I actually

even saw the film, I, I didn't, do the play per

se, but we read it and we kind of did like a

reenactment of the play in one of my English

classes and actually in high school. And so we

all kind of got parts, you know, one of those

things and kind of someone said the stage directions

and I played the part of Teddy or yeah, Teddy.

So that part is still near and dear to my heart.

And one of those things that still sticks with

me for some reason, because going into it, you

know, you're thinking, oh, this is play from

the 1940s. You're in high school. You're like,

oh, this is going to be so, you know, it's not

going to be funny. It's not going to hold up.

And I remember like thinking like this, this

hilarious, like, I can't believe this is actually

about what it's about. So, yeah. So I was eager

to watch it because I remember when I finally

did sit down and see the movie and I'm really

enjoying it. And so I was excited to see if it,

you know, if my memory Was correct and then considering

we've seen so many more Cary Grant performances

and things like that. If like how how it compared

now that I've watched more of his career. So

how about yourself? I believe you said you were

actually in arsenic and old lace play. Yeah,

so this was the first play that I was ever and

I did like four community theater plays. Two

of them as like. the quote unquote high school

plays, I guess you could call it, or the high

school productions. And then two after high school

is just like, you know, just community theater

stuff. Cause I had an itch that I wasn't done

scratching yet. So this was the first play that

I ever appeared in. It was kind of a new thing

to all of us. Like it was weird. I think we had

been, you know, there was other plays that had

happened around us and school plays and community

plays and things like that. But it was weird

because there was a group of me and my classmates

slash friends. that maybe it just had never dawned

on us that like we were the right age to like

actually participate in something like this ourselves.

So it was interesting because typically there

was a certain crowd that was involved in the

plays. You know, in our time in high school,

there was a lot of like different, I don't want

to say clicks, but there was basically, you know,

like you had your jocks, you had your different,

you know, different things, right? And like there

was a certain group that did the drama. And we

were not necessarily part of that group. And

there was a whole bunch of us that decided to

try out for the the play at the same time. And

it was really kind of interesting because it

was. It may I feel like it opened it up for a

lot more folks to like think, hey, it's not like

something that we should be making fun of, or

it's not something sometimes people like cast

aspersions for people that like stuff that's

not mainstream. And it was like, here's a bunch

of people that are from different groups in the

high school that are all trying out for it. And

it was like, hey, this Maybe we can like give

this a shot, I think kind of. I'm not that we

had that intention at all, but like I feel like

that's kind of like what happened. And yeah,

I got to play the character of Jonathan Brewster

in this. So I don't know what that says that

I know which one you'll be good as the casting

for. But yeah, that's how that happened. So I

definitely can relate to this. One thing that

I was interested in, because I did watch the

film at that time, because I didn't know if that

was like a. thing you should do or a thing you

shouldn't do. But it was like this is a 1944

film and even earlier play. And I'm like, I feel

like I need something to like understand where

we're going. So I watched the film ahead of that

kind of venture. So we're talking about, you

know, the late 1990s when I watched this. So

it's been over 25 years since I since I saw it.

And I was interested, too, to go back because,

number one, I there's a bunch of these other

films that I saw. whether it be, you know, when

I was still in high school or when I was going

through the AFI list with my mom in college that

we've gone back and some of them my memories

have held up and some of them maybe not as much.

Like we just talked about one, like the Philadelphia

story where I'm like, man, I thought I really

liked that the first time I watched it. And now

it's not that I dislike it, but it just didn't

quite hit what I remember it to be. And so I

was like, is arsenic and old lays going to be

that way too? Am I going to be able to separate?

My experience with it and kind of the inner knowledge

like there's no way to not know like to forget

about a play or like the lines or whatever when

you Practice and perform it as many times as

you have to for that type of thing Yeah, you

know we're talking about a couple months of memorizing

lines and things like that and I want to say

that we had At least eight performances of it

I want to say it was maybe two weekends of Thursday,

Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or Friday, Saturday

and two on Sunday or something like that. So

it's like, it's definitely ingrained in your

head. One thing that I'll kind of let out now

before I go into our opinions of the film. One

thing that I learned on this watch though, I

was under the impression and I watched it back

then too. So it should have been like fresh in

my mind, but I watched it back then. But there

was a bunch of stuff that I thought the director

and or the cast came up with like, clever ideas

and things that would make certain things funnier

or like play better for the audience. And I'm

not saying we didn't come up with a few of those

things, but now watching the film, I'm like,

I feel like half the things I thought were clever

things we came up with were in the film. So I

don't think anybody was that clever. We just

somebody watched the film and was like, we should

put that in there. And I was like oblivious to

realize we were just taking exactly what happened

in the film, because I was waiting for the couple

of things. I'm like, oh, I remember we did this

instead. And then I'm like, oh, They did that

too. So that was kind of interesting. So obviously

it's been a while for both of us. And it's kind

of another interesting thing because there hasn't

been a ton of films in either of our last two

retrospectives that we both came with like a,

you know, prior knowledge of a lot of them have

been blind spots for at least one of us, if not

both of us. So this is an interesting one that

we both have history with. So, you know, 10 years

for your case, at least 25 years, at least for

myself after the fact, you know, this film, has

a lot of different things going forward that

we've kind of discussed in the past, whether

it be films that have been based on plays, we've

seen a bunch of those happen. And we've obviously

had conversations of if you can tell or not that

it was based on a play based on the setting,

based on how it's filmed and some things like

that. And certain ones maybe perform better as

a play and others maybe perform better as a film.

But what was your take after all these other

years seeing arsenic on old lace and did it live

up to what you remembered did you like it more

or less how did it work and as we kind of like

you said put the backdrop of our carry grand

experience so far. Yeah so i have a blast last

watching this i thought it was still still holds

up like the dark humor at times is you know is

so good it is. It is very big with the comedy,

even Cary Grant. His face is Jim Cary -esque

in how dynamic he gets at times, and he utilizes

that a great deal. It is very broad in that.

But I think there are also some smart moments

as well, and like you mentioned, cleverness.

There's a lot of cleverness within that too,

within those big ideas. I just, to me, this is

just a joy. I do feel like as I'm watching this,

I'm like, this would be a better experience with

the crowd. Like, it just feels like if you're

around a lot of people laughing, because there's

so many, like, points, I feel like it'd be even

enhanced in that type of experience. Like, if

this was ever, like, really re -released in theaters,

I would definitely go see it with a group because

I feel like even then, it just begs to be seen

with other people. compared to like myself just

watching at home in the dark laughing by myself.

But still, it's not as fun. But I had a great

time with it. I think it still holds up really

well. And I really have no complaints about it.

I think there's maybe hits to Nick or whatever

you want to call it. But I love that there's

even like meta commentary at times. There's Perry

Grant is just having a ball. They all really

are and So I I really enjoyed it. I thought it

was it was fun. It's funny and it moves really

quick like it's not as like breakneck pace as

you know, like his girl Friday, maybe or you

know like um, bringing a baby but still It's

just it moves. It moves from seeing the scene

really well. It just it's uh doesn't really let

up and in a bad way. So, and I love that there's

so many good running jokes and everything like

that. So, I don't know. I had a good time watching

it, was happy to rewatch it again. Just as funny

the second time, there's a lot of things I forgot

about that I was surprised about on my rewatch,

but how about yourself? Considering that you

have, you know, you've probably experienced this

a whole lot more than I have. Yeah, so a couple

things that came to my mind first I just want

to touch on this before I forget because you

made a good point about how it kind of Goes around

it at a pretty good pace obviously like you said

not not maybe like warp speed, but it It's a

two -hour film and it doesn't feel like it's

two hours in my opinion like there was never

moments where I was like Okay, like let's move

on to this part or you know, like it's it continues

to go and like it keeps you No, it's not just

that it's moving at a decent pace, but it also

is keeping you interested on on the next turn

or the next like, where does it go from here?

How are they going to react to this? Because

it is a film where the characters are getting

interrupted a lot, right? Like there's a lot

of different situations where characters are

trying to do something and getting interrupted

by this, that and the other, whether it be a

family member, whether it be the police at the

door, whatever the case may be. And because of

that, you're always like waiting to see how the

different threads continue. and and get tied

up and stuff like that. So it's not just that

it's moving at a decent pace, but it does a good

job of keeping your interest as far as like seeing

how the story evolves. So I do appreciate that.

I think you bring up a good point. I would take

it a step further. I don't just think this would

be better to watch in a theater with a group.

I think it would actually like I think this is

I still think this may be best seen as a play.

And that is not like saying anything bad about

the film. but I just think when you're in if

you could take a group of people that know nothing

about this and then take them to a production

of this live and be there experiencing the reactions

and the laughs from all the different people

as they see the the antics here I think that's

like where you get like the best experience with

this one and I know you can say that probably

about a lot of different plays that like it's

really fun to be there in person but I think

this one like especially like Being able to see

the audience's reaction. So that was like the

one of the most entertaining things about being

in the play. Like we're high school students,

like we're not actors, right? Like we're not

skilled in any way, shape or form. But it was

so gratifying, like doing stuff and then hearing

the audience's reactions and the laughs. And

I feel like you get that whether you're part

of the play or whether you're part of the audience.

And so I do think that maybe it's. best seen

as an actual play, but. It's also. If they did

a pretty good job of adapting it to the screen.

I think, and obviously it helps that they have

some of the actual actors from. Broadway believe

it was Broadway. They have at least three of

the cast members from the Broadway play in this

film, so obviously that helps. I was. I enjoyed

my experience with this one. I do think it's

interesting to see Cary Grant in this film after

everything else we've seen, because like you

said, he is very over the top, right? And he's

acting, like we've seen this in some of his other

stuff where he does a lot of physical acting,

like from... looks, facial expressions, body

language and things like that. Like we've seen

that on a smaller scale in a bunch of his other

films, but this is like, if you want to see the

prime example of him doing that, it's this film.

Like he is doing so much with his eyes, so much

with his facial expressions. Like this is like,

if you were like to dissect the different tools

in Cary Grant's toolbox and you had like a half

a dozen of them or whatever we came up with,

the physical acting would be one of those. And

this would be the film that I point to as like

the prime example of him doing that. So I really

thought that that was interesting. And I don't

know, I think it would have been interesting

to, had we done the Cary Grant retrospective

before we did the Hitchcock retrospective, I'm

very curious as to how that would have landed

for me. Because I feel like We did it in the

right order almost like I like the fact that

we got to see some of his more serious not serious

But like the thrilling stuff I guess you can

call it serious in the Hitchcock and then we

got to see You know some of the just craziness

so far with his girl Friday and bringing up,

baby Obviously, we got a really serious one with

with penny serenade so you throw that in there

But then we get this which is it may not be unhinged

like I said with him bringing up, baby, but he

is acting just as like Over the top and and comedic

as you can possibly get with Cary Grant Yeah,

what do you think about the order that we kind

of watch that and how that plays into like our

opinions of Cary Grant? Yeah, I could see this

is a it's funny because the you know, this was

probably the first Cary Grant movie I watched

but and I didn't at the time thinking it was

it felt fitting for that age. I think if anything

I probably just this mystic because it's like

oh it's the 1940s and that's kind of you always

played to the back of the theater and that's

what he was doing especially considering this

is actually a play but if this was you know now

if i watched it today like you said before if

we were to do retrospective we started with this

i still think he would think he was funny but

Certainly it's be like okay maybe he needs to

tone it down a little bit on occasion is there

are some times where it's like it's. Almost like

looney tunes ask and his expressions and even

like i know i was in a reading up about it like

even like carrie grant like he hates his performance

in this i think he's still too harsh on himself

and i know a lot of actors often are. Mm -hmm,

but I can get where that's coming from because

you can compare this to something like his girl

Friday where it's much more reserved like it's

he's much sharper and Like he does have those

like facial expressions, but he's there were

I kind of reserved for the right moment We're

here are just all the time and like his eyes

get so big like especially like early on once

the body is discovered and Yeah, that like that

whole sequence or but there's also I think just

moments of The brilliance in that too, when they're

going through it all and then his brother shows

up and again, they're gonna look into the, whatever

you call that thing, like the, not a casket,

but the big container where the body is and he

goes over there and so does his brother and just

the emotions he goes through in that moment.

i thought that was brilliant i thought like okay

like he's going through so much and this the

glee that like it just i thought that was that

was great so yeah like i could uh but with that

being said i do there are some times where it's

like okay maybe like maybe we can like go from

11 to like nine or eight here and there uh uh

you know so like the one scene where he's the

break almost like breaking the fourth wall he's

talking about a play he went to and like how

the character was interacting and like just like

that that was a little big but right so i said

i i felt it was the material within itself is

kind of ludicrous and over the top you have you

know you have a character that's teddy roosevelt

yelling in charge every time he goes up the stairs

so the You remember when we talked about, um,

uh, bringing a baby and how there wasn't, or

there wasn't like a normal character, there wasn't

like a person. I think that's the case for this

movie. I think you could kind of lodge that same

complaint if you want to call it a complaint

where there isn't like a normal person in this.

Everyone is a bit quirky or strange. So in order

to stand out in a way, you kind of have to act.

that accordingly and I just also love the juxtaposition

between his character and his brother who's basically

this walking Frankenstein serial killer. It's

just, it is. I think Looney Tunes felt like Bugs

Bunny going up against some monster in a way,

just like how different their approaches are.

But I don't know, how about yourself? A couple

things. Number one, I wanted to touch on at least

two things that you brought up there. You don't

carry Grant saying it was one of his worst performance

and it was two over the top and things of that

nature. A couple of things on that number one,

it seemed like both he I read different reports

and I don't know if they're conflicting or if

they're kind of together, but one that he was

almost not demanding, but he was requesting reshoots

on some of the stuff so that they could tone

down a few moments here and there. I also read

that Frank Capra, the director, was doing the

same. So I don't know if one's one of those reports

is true and one is also for both true that they

were both wanting to do reshoots to try to like

because they acknowledged that there was few

moments where they maybe Had gone too far and

I think that's mostly on Frank Capra's direction

He wanted them to go, you know bananas But then

you know after the fact it seemed like they at

least acknowledged that maybe they should bring

it back a bit but to give you kind of like More

information on the filming of this this the filming

of this is a crazy story, right? So They filmed

this in 1941, 42 era. And I think it was supposed

to be released in the fall of 42. But they couldn't

do that because the play was still running and

there was an agreement that if the play was still

running, they would delay the release or they

wouldn't release until the play was done. And

they didn't expect the play to do as successful,

be as successful as it was. So the film doesn't

come out for an extra two years. Like it just

sits there waiting to be released until 1944.

And then you also have to put into context what

we're going through in our world during that

time. And Frank Capra, I believe it was after

the bombing of Pearl Harbor, enlists in the armed

forces. I don't remember which branch it was,

but he enlists. And they give him an extension

or something so he can try to finish the film.

But I read somewhere where that kind of squashed

any reshoots that they were thinking about doing

to tone any of that down because he needed to

get it done quickly so he could You don't go

off to war basically. Yeah, and so it's just

like a crazy Instance where you know, maybe they

did have plans to tone some of that down But

then they never got to it for you know, those

types of reasons so and that I find interesting

good Yeah, and I get the priorities, of course,

you know, because what war's happening, you're

kind of limited on what you can do. So I wonder

too, if like that, I didn't know that going into

it, right? Like I get that didn't, I didn't,

even though I watched it before, I try not to

look at reviews or information before I go in,

but even like watching it, it's like, this does

seem a bit, he's a little, he's a little bit

like, he's having a good time here. And then

going back and seeing his reaction to it. I'm

like, okay, I'm like, I understand what that's

coming from because you know, it's it's a very

different performance. I don't have all the movies

we've done so far I don't think there's anyone

I would say he acts like like this in any other

film we've done so Yeah, and I did read somewhere

too that like there was some of that that Frank

Capra was really trying to bring out of him that

you know He wasn't even comfortable with that

He was like really pushing him to kind of push

that envelope and things of that nature I did

find it funny too that in that same interviewer

quote from Cary Grant that he's Actually throw

somebody out that he said he thought would have

been better for the role I don't know if you've

read the same quote or not but because we've

have experience with him I want to get your take

because a lot of times when you hear you know

You have a famous movie that somebody does it

and then you hear who else was Considered for

the cast or this that neither and a lot of times

you go into that I can't see anybody else doing

it but him type of thought process in this one

I almost can see it. He said that Jimmy Stewart

would have been better for this I'm not saying

he would have been better. I'm not saying I would

change it, but I can totally see Jimmy Stewart

playing a role like this Yeah, I think it would

be certainly would be different but yeah, you

know a key we Feel like Jimmy's Suits comedy,

which he doesn't like I'm trying to think of

like he doesn't do a lot of comedy throughout

his career I feel like it would be More was reserved.

I'd be interested to seeing it could feel like

it would be a very different performance cuz

right it would be an interesting take He I mean

he currently know it like he's you know, he's

a great actor I feel like he's much more understated

with his performances You know even like looking

at I can see him getting like riled up though

Like the way that yeah, you seem to get riled

up and stuff like that. I can see that aspect

definitely shining here Yeah, yeah, it would

I don't know. It's I guess like I wonder if it

would be more comparable to like what the play

was Yeah, you know where Gary Grant's much more

vaudeville that's where he comes from where right

and Jimmy Stewart's more you know classic actor

where Maybe he brings some more to that scene

those scenes, but yeah, that would be interesting.

I think I could see it I certainly could see

him doing it and Him being I could imagine like

the scene of him finding out that his answer

to serial killers and just the Confusion and

frustration and disbelief that would go through

his head and I definitely get to him like killing

a scene like that Yeah, I don't think he was

ever considered. I didn't read that anywhere

That's just from Cary Grant himself the other

people that were considered for this role though

Just to throw some names out here Jack Benny

Bob Hope and Ronald Reagan So those weird list

of people So obviously, you know from Jack Benny

and Bob Hope standpoint, they were really going

for the comedic Aspects of that. I don't have

enough experience with Ronald Reagan's filmography

to say I don't know. I know he did some westerns.

I don't know what else he did. So Yeah, I feel

like I feel like Bob Hope would be very would

like he would like Yeah, I did watch it like

my parents watched a lot of pop up going up.

It would have been It would been super like over

-the -top with him and probably a lot of he loved

to break the fourth wall So I'm certain like

those moments we got he would really lean into

so yeah another thing that you mentioned that

I wanted to come back to is you talked about

like the normal man or the normal person that

you know you can either grounds the the thing

or that you can relate to I know when we did

the play I felt like that was Elaine Harper that

was that person In a way, we played it a little

bit different than they do in the movie as well.

Like she played a much bigger part in our play

than she does in the movie. But she's the one

that kind of comes in and is not part of the

family, is not part of the chaos and is like

trying to be like, y 'all are crazy. What's going

on? Yeah, that's a good point. I completely like

her. Not forgot about our character, but she's

literally thrown to the side so much so often

but that is a valid point that that that was

the one person they kept trying to Bring into

right and of normal, you know, just give us something

to be like, okay These things are a bit crazy

and she is toned down a bit in this movie too

because of I know we've talked about it a couple

times as we've gone through this Cary Grant filmography,

but the Hayes code as far as playing a part and

kind of influencing things. They were forced

to play down. There's supposed to be a decent

presence of, I guess you'd call it sexual frustration

between Mortimer and Elaine that's kind of fueling

some of the chaoticness and some of the, you

know, desire to get this wrapped up in a quick

manner and things of that nature that the Hays

Code did not allow. So they definitely had to

tone that down, which I think somewhat muted

her presence and performance in the film a little

bit as far as like what I remember in the play.

Not that we didn't play that up a lot in the

high school play either, but I do remember it

being there as far as like something that was

there. Another thing I wanted to quickly touch

on just to go to a couple other characters, the

three characters that transfer from the Broadway

production to the film are the two aunts. So

we have Aunt Abby and Aunt Martha. Those are

the people that played this on Broadway as well.

And Teddy, who is played by John Alexander. Those

are the three that come over from the Broadway

production to the film, which I think is cool.

Boris Karloff was in the Broadway play. Obviously,

they use his name in the film, which is a reference

because That's who's playing the character in

the Broadway production. He was not allowed to

come over or be released for this because he

was the top billing on the on the play. So where

Cary Grant gets top billing on the film and Mortimer

Brewster's character, it was actually Jonathan

Brewster that got top billing on the play because

of Boris Karloff's. Fame or celebrity status

or whatever the case may be and. I don't know

if it was just strictly because of that or because

they just weren't willing to let all of the cast

off and use all substitutes. I know that they

threw some different names out that could have

played him on that they suggested for the Broadway

play while they let him do this. But he was obviously

not allowed to do this, which I guess he wasn't

super happy about. But he also owned rights to

the play. So he was making royalties off of the

play for a long time. And then when Arsenic and

Old Ace became, I believe, a TV. adaptation later

on he did get to play Jonathan Brewster finally

in that as well so it's kind of cool I guess

that they put the Karloff line in there because

they're definitely referring to that and I guess

the guy that does play Jonathan Brewster Raymond

Massey the amount of makeup that they had to

put on like it was one of those situations where

they're we're talking about hours of makeup that

they put on before he's allowed to, you know,

go into the filming. And I read somewhere, too,

and I didn't catch this when I was watching,

but I guess you can watch every single one of

his close ups in this film. And he never blinks.

I did not. I did not get that for the play, so

I definitely was blanking. I also didn't have

any close ups, but I do remember having a scar

put on me every very noticeable, like, and you

obviously have to like really exaggerate it when

you're on a stage because nobody can see it.

So I had like this gigantic scar on my face that

they had to paint on to me every day which I

thought was cool because I got to go in with

like the makeup people which were all female

and they got to, you know, put my scar on and

that was cool for a 17 year old boy. Nice. But

what was your take on the ants and Teddy, you

know, your familiarity with that role and then

kind of the Jonathan Brewster role? I mean, you

know, I mean, he Think he did the part of Teddy

justice. I maybe I thought I did a little bit

better. I'm probably not But he was great. I

think the ants are they're everything in this

movie like they are The entire film like revolves

around just their dynamic. They're perfect So

I'm so glad that like I couldn't imagine anyone

else doing those roles. I'm sure you get some

people but like it's Just their laissez -faire

attitude towards everything and just it's I don't

know. It was there. The best comedy came from

them easily. So I think they were certainly the

stars of the show. And I don't know, they're

just so many great like just near the end, of

course, when they're going through it. But there

are 13 bodies in the. And it's just. Their performance

is so perfect because they have to, you know,

They don't play for laughs. It's kind of reminds

me of like Leslie Nielsen and like when he's

really good at naked gun where he's playing it

straight. Like they aren't like being comedic

in their performances. They are, they're dead

serious in the way they're approaching it. It's

just the little kid. It's just how ludicrous

everything is that it works. So the fact that

they aren't self -aware, I think it's so important

and how well a movie works. And again, like I,

if you just had a movie, like I want a prequel

of just like all the people that come in, like

a TV episode of just all that. All the people

they just randomly kill I like I could have sworn

just my memory that we got more about those individuals

by the end, but Yeah, I thought there was more

and maybe we just added them I thought we I don't

know I feel like there was at least one more

situation where we had in the play that we did

That adaptation where we had another gentleman

at some point. I thought it was maybe towards

the end Yeah, I think we ended it slightly different

and we had another person come in at the end

that they were serving I don't know, there was

something like that. I know in the original,

I believe the play ends, if I'm remembering it

correctly, that it doesn't end with Mortimer

running off and just declaring he's a bastard

and celebrating that fact, but it ends with the

ants serving, poisoning, whoever was taking them

away or somebody at the sanitarium or something

happens where They actually get to go free or

something like the order they're killing the

person that's gonna, you know, take them down

or whatever There's something like that. So it

had a slightly different ending that I think

they were had to switch again for Hayes code

type stuff towards the end of this one to make

it work. I Forgot all about the baseball thing

at the beginning Yeah, yeah, I had no recollection

that was there was even part of this I forget

that there's the for those that don't know like

this opens up with a baseball Sequence and then

they just start like beating the crap out of

each At first I thought I had the wrong movie.

I'm like, wait, am I this not is this a different

version? I completely forgot about that too.

Yeah Yeah, which is also somewhat weird because

then it's like across town and like a you know,

perfectly nice neighborhood and you know the

juxtaposition But then this is supposed to be

taking place at Halloween, but Brooklyn's playing

Baseball probably not happening at October 31st

at that time. I don't know. Like things have

changed nowadays. I guess they play sometimes

in the November it seems like. So I forgot that

even existed 100 % for sure. I read somewhere

about some, I know you talked a little bit about

some meta things and things like that. I read

that there was these people that had done a Capra

biography maybe if I'm remembering correctly,

but they were Digging into the meaning of the

play, and I want to see if you picked up on any

of this, because I certainly did not. And I've

been in the play and I've watched the movie a

couple of times, and this is news to me. But

I can also kind of make the connection and see

it. If that was intentional or not, I don't know.

But they were talking about the play's meaning

and the movie's meaning. To be somewhat representative

of America. And. By saying that you have this

like picture perfect house. with like the nice

ants and all of this stuff, but there's 13 bodies

in the cellar. And America is oftentimes, especially,

you know, back in the day, presented as this

beacon of freedom and this like, everybody can

come and chase their American dream and everything's

nice and hunky dory at America, you know, in

America, but in America's cellar is all of its

violent past, as far as things that it's done

to get to that point. Did you pick up on that

at all or can you see that being an intentional

meaning behind this crazy comedy of a film? I

didn't honestly not pick that up at all going

through it, but I can certainly see it. And also,

I mean, you look at the connection to Teddy Roosevelt

bringing up the Panama Canal and currently, certainly

that was an achievement that also led to a lot

of deaths like, you know, them bringing up Yellow

Fever and stuff was a very real element of that.

Uh, but going through it, like I didn't, I wasn't

searching for meaning. I wasn't searching for,

uh, it was, and perhaps that was just a mistake

on my part. Or, you know, I was just with everything

being so big and so in your face, nothing seemed

like a subtle reference to something else in

going through it. So that, if that was the intention,

it didn't really hit hard to me. I could see

where it comes from, but I don't know if it.

Watching it like you get that impression at all

right? I didn't I didn't I did not either I can

see how it lines up with that, but I can't see

that that was like If that was the intention,

I don't think they necessarily played to that

very much as far as that goes This does have

an 86 % on rotten tomatoes fairly good score

there It was rated number 30 for AFIs 100 years

100 laughs that they did in the in the year 2000

So obviously some respect for it when it comes

to that. I just had a couple more like I don't

know how to get this in a natural conversation,

so I'm just gonna add a couple trivia bits here,

because I just think they're interesting. So

we've seen this a little bit before, and I can't

remember if it was His Girl Friday, I believe

it was, where Cary Grant references Archie Leach's

name, which is his real name, and he says something

about it. It was either His Girl Friday or Bring

It Up Baby. I think it was His Girl Friday that

he brings it up. In this one, there's actually

a tomb, the Brewsters live like, basically on

by cemetery to add to the creepiness of it and

Apparently there's a tombstone you can see in

one of the sequences or cuts or whatever and

Archie leeches is the name on the on the actual

tombstone So there's another way that they bring

his real name into it. I guess thought that was

somewhat interesting The other thing this is

kind of a sad note I guess but because it takes

so long for this film to release With the extra

couple years that they were waiting on it three

of the characters in the film don't actually

survive to see the film released. Sergeant Brophy

and the marriage license official and Gibbs,

who is one of the older gentlemen, they all pass

away before the film actually gets released.

So I guess that's the downside of having to wait

that much longer for the film to get released.

And then the last thing from a trivia standpoint,

Mr. Witherspoon, who is in this film, As the

he is the see the head of the sanitarium Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the guy that comes to take

Teddy to Happydale it's played by an actor named

Edward Everett Horton and For those that are

like voice actor enthusiasts. He's the narrator

on the original on the 1959 the bullwinkle show.

Oh, wow Yeah, and he also narrated an animated

series called Fractured Fairy Tales, but most

people would recognize The Bullwinkle Show. So

he was the narrator from that. So I thought that

was kind of an interesting thing to keep your

ear open for if you decide to watch this one.

So, Dan, number 30 for 100 years, 100 laughs.

Does that make sense to you? Does that track?

Do you feel like it deserves a place in the top

100 most comedic films of all time? I think so.

I 100 % I think it belongs up there. Like I said,

it's still I think a lot of the comedy holds

up. it certainly, like we mentioned, can be a

little bit big at times, but I still laughed

a good amount, you know, some really great moments.

So like one of my favorite moments was when you

have that final battle or the fighting of all

the cops and everything and Cary Grant's just,

just like his, like he's so just over it. And

like one of my favorite things is this little

small moment where the cop goes to hit, his brother

over the head with something is like, that's

not gonna work. And then did he go? I guess it

will. It's just like, it's just so it's just

just the dismissive and like, like just the small

realization. I thought that was like the best,

his best line reading in the entire thing, because

it was just, you know, he was so it was just

such a smaller moment and stuff like that compared

to everything else. I just thought it was laughed

so hard at that line was like, Oh, that that

that Forgot to bring up and I feel like we can't

not mention him So I just want to get your take

on Peter Laurie who we've seen a couple different

times I think in the different retrospectives

we've done so far. He's obviously playing dr

Einstein which is the henchman to the main villain

Jonathan Brewster you and the reason I made I

thought of him was because you were talking about

kind of moments that really kind of tickled your

Funny bone or whatever and I feel like the end

the last time we see dr. Einstein and Peter Laurie

playing the doctor coming in there while they're

giving the description over the phone of what

the doctor looks like and all of these different

things. And he's like basically pulling his hands

out ready for the cuffs to be put on. And of

course he gets to he gets to get off scoffery.

I'm not sure if that's the, you know, one of

our criminals definitely does get away with with

murder and stuff like that. But what was your

take on Peter Laurie and his performance? Yeah,

that's actually a good point, because I didn't

think they were allowed to do that. I completely

forgot he was in this. And again, probably maybe

the most recognizable face in the history of

Hollywood, just like the history of movies, because

I think there's no one's ever looked quite like

him. And his voice too. Yeah, definitely. So

I thought he was great. I don't know, was this

before Frankenstein's movie? I can't think of

when those came out. But like him against a character

that looks just like Frankenstein and he kind

of has that Igor presence It was really well,

but he was great like again say similar thing.

It did pan humor. He Wasn't trying to be funny,

but often really was so I was always happy to

see see him show up in a movie Obviously most

people probably know him from Casablanca. Like

you said some of the different Yeah, that stuff

he was in one of the Hitchcock films that we

didn't cover which the man who knew too much

the original Correct. Um, yeah, he wasn't which

he was in the original which one which I don't

think I have so have yet to see that but I have

not either So that's interesting. But yeah, I

thought you know Peter Peter Laurie is great

in this and he's just sober like I feel like

that's an impersonation that people do that don't

even know who they're doing an impersonation

of yeah, yeah They've heard it so many times

that they just do it. And then like, and I feel

like we've seen it too, like in cartoons and

different like comedies where we didn't even

realize who was being like spoofed or paying

homage to or whatever copied, I guess you could

say. So what was the last thing I forgot to mention

kind of goes with what we've heard about Cary

Grant here is varying reports. Some people say

he made one hundred thousand for this film. Some

people say he made upwards of one hundred and

sixty thousand. There's like three different

reports that talk about his money and what he

did with it and how much he made. The only consistent

thing out of all the different reports is he

at least made $100 ,000 and he at least donated

$100 ,000. So he may have made $160 ,000 and

donated $100 ,000. That's one of the reports.

Another report says he made $100 ,000 and donated

all of it. And then there's one that's like somewhere

in between those two. And it was like a variety

of different things between the I think there

was like the British War Relief thing. There

was something with the on America side where

I don't remember if it was Red Cross or if it's

some some other charitable donation like that

and different things. So like it seems like that's

we've seen that at least two or three times now

where he's gotten a decent paycheck and donated

a portion of it that you would not think would

be the case like from in our world today. Like

you can't see as many people just doing that.

I don't think. Maybe there's yeah that are that

charitable, but he's definitely got a big -time

charitable bone in him This you'd say like George

Lucas because when he sold Star Wars and he donate

all that. Oh, that's true Yeah, so kind of a

nice thing to see from somebody of that fame

yeah, I mean Cary Grant such an interesting figure

and you do wonder like Because he of course like

he was kind of born to be a star and then There's

some of the things he did it just makes you want

to kind of wear his thoughts and Like apart you

wonder like if he liked hollywood But then he

would you know, he would do things like that

and he's clearly loved doing movies and stuff

I don't know, but I feel like he liked I feel

like he genuinely liked the forming craft like

he liked performing. He liked acting. I don't

know if he liked hollywood as true, you know

what I mean, which or at least the glitz and

glam aspect of it. It's hard to say because he

was so, he is the icon and the Hollywood star,

but I feel like he was someone who genuinely

loved performing and acting, which obviously,

like you said, that's where he came up with the

vaudeville background and stuff, which reminds

me of my last note, I promise. I keep remembering

more things, because there's just so much to

this film. Gina Dare, who plays Aunt Martha,

actually knew Cary Grant beforehand as Archie

Leach when he was in vaudeville and I guess at

one point like Cary Grant was not doing so well

and like sickly and things like that and I read

that Gina Dare actually nursed him back to health

and like got him back on his feet and like got

him healthy again and this was like 20 years

prior to this and then he like comes across her

again in this film and they get to, you know,

play together. So it's just a weird connection

that like they knew each other from his vaudeville

days. So now then, Gina Dare is the taller of

the two ants for those that are getting the two

ants confused. That's the taller one. So final

thoughts, Dan, on arsenic and old lathe. I, like

I said, I had a great time with it. It's a really

good comedy. I think it's also like if you have

I didn't watch this with my kids, but I feel

like if I did, they would enjoy it. Obviously,

they know you deal with some darker stuff, but

I think it's done in a cartoonish manner. It

is basically a living cartoon, and I could see

what you're saying regarding it being better

in play form. And that certainly makes sense,

because it does feel like they're performing

for an audience that's in front of them, and

they're begging for that interaction and that

give and take. I certainly think I definitely

could see that, but still I had a good time.

It was interesting seeing Cary Grant like in

that type of role and like with this performance

after her Penny Serenade. This was a nice reprieve

from that, you know, getting a little bit more

back to the comedy for a bit. So yeah, I highly

recommend checking it out. It is available for

free on Internet Archive. So, cause I don't think

it's streaming, but you can buy it and rent it

too. But Internet Archive is only there so it

can cost you nothing. I would also say if you're

at all involved in any type of community or especially

school that does plays like this is an excellent

one for you guys to choose to do. Like I feel

like this is just one that the kids can get into.

I feel like it plays well with the audience and

I feel like it introduces them to some of this

like old school Hollywood and some of that type

of stuff. But I think it's one that that definitely

sometimes some of the older plays that are just

like the classics to go to for a lot of these

places aren't. always is good. And I think this

one holds up. So I would definitely suggest doing

this one. And you talk about, you know, going

back and forth from serious to comedies and in

kind of the journey we've been through, I feel

like we're going back maybe to the dramatic route

with our next film, which also came out. And

now it makes sense why these two both came out

in 1944, because ours, Nick and Old Lace was

already in the can two years prior. But another

film that came out in 1944 that starred Cary

Grant was a film called None But the Lonely Heart.

This is his second Academy Award nomination coming

from this film. So I'm guessing it may be a touch

more on the serious side, as that's what the

Academy typically rewarded throughout the years.

Dan, do you have any experience with None But

the Lonely Heart? I have zero. I know nothing

about it. I've never seen it. So I'm going to

try to go in. Keeping that, you know, as much

as possible. So seeing how well it holds up or

like what exactly in the store for like you said,

I'm preparing for something that is more depressing

and a bit more on the serious side because it

doesn't the Oscars don't tend to award comedy

very often. That's been that's still the case

today. So we'll see, though. We're also going

from we're going from a film that we both saw.

to a film that both of us probably know as little

about as humanly possible. I know one thing about

this film, and that is it stars Cary Grant and

Ethel Barrymore. And that's it. I know nothing

else about this. So I am definitely intrigued

to see if it's along the lines of Penny Serenade

or how it compares to that. But we'll have to

wait until the next episode to kind of dive into

that. Dan, if people want to keep up to date

with you, how would they do that on the social

medias? Just search comic con tears on all the

social medias and you could find me there Absolutely,

you can search me out at optimus solo or you

can search the show out at the cinema geeks You

can also keep up to all the other stuff that

happens on the website with the geek cast radio

Dot -com so that does it for this episode tune

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