Black Hammer Vol. 2 Review

This is Bryan T. Stevenson and you're listening

to the GeekCast Radio Network. Today is an interesting

episode because it's the first time we're actually

continuing with a series and I'm continuing with

my very special guest, my very close friend,

Greg Mann. How's it going? Very good, sir. Very

good. It's good to be here and good to hear from

you. Yeah, thank you for joining us yet again

for those that don't know Greg and I the other

podcasts are talking circles with our friend

Chuck And we're we're talking in a smaller circle

today about the comic Black Hammer We talked

about the first volume last week and we're gonna

keep it going great comics deserve to be talked

about So we'll continue this one here We also

talked the origins of comics how we kind of got

into them and it works Well for a comic like

Black Hammer to have a comics fan Review it because

it is a comic so much about comics that I think

someone it's not really a good series for someone

who's never read a comic before To really jump

into but we went we talked a lot about the first

volume last week So go ahead and check that out.

We will dive into some spoilers here and there

especially if you've never the first volume Just

to have more of an in -depth conversation. So

if you've never read Black Hammer, probably come

back after you've read it Go buy it go read it.

It deserves your money. It's a great book. We're

gonna have glowing things to say so But all right

greg let's let's start with with that and we

had great things to say about the first volume

But there's you know, there are a lot of comics

that have a great first volume and then the second

volume It just you know, it goes downhill. It

doesn't leave you with nearly the same feeling

We knew the first volume it ended at a big cliffhanger.

Suddenly now a new character comes into the fold

How did the second volume stack up? How much

did you enjoy it? What were your overall thoughts

on it? Yeah, I liked the second volume just as

much, if not more, than the first volume. I liked

the new character that was added into the mix

of Lucy Webber, the daughter of Black Hammer.

And Jeff Lemire does a great job of knowing when

to... turn all those questions and start feeding

you little tidbits of answers along the way here

and Lucy gives you hope that you're gonna find

some of those answers with her being a journalist

and her now finding out that her dad is dead

and not coming back to her and so she's really

motivated whereas the rest of the other characters

have been here for quite a while and are a bit

forlorn doing really nothing about it anymore,

or just so in love with the place that they don't

want to do anything about it anymore. So she's,

I think she's a great new addition to kind of

come in and find those answers for us and to

get these characters more motivated. Like, I

think she was definitely the scene between her

and Takiwaki was great of him getting, I think

it's a hit. No, is she? Is Waki Taki a she or

a him? Don't know honestly just a robot I'm getting

the robot more motivated Cannot tell I can not

tell I guess I mean it has a feminine demeanor

and I have no idea but what's thinking about

about this is that it's one of those situations

where we're taking a major step back with the

with the second volume in the fact that with

the first issue With an opening story. We're

finding out who exactly the black hammer is,

you know, it's this character that's been looming

in the background We know it's called O Black

Hammer and now we find out where that story is

coming from and seeing that this is where we

get a lot even more of the complete like Jack

Kirby. Yeah, Jack Kirby is all over this from.

Yeah. It's like, OK, what if Thor was a new guy,

you know, having the hammer that you get the

powers back and having the stick and you hit

the in order to change forms. They got the wrecking

crew in there, kind of. Yeah, yeah. Love how

he introduces all the different members of his

world where you know, you have the obviously

the the scaper and who's clearly Miracle man.

Yeah, mr. Miracle. Mr. Miracle. Yes, Miracle

man. It's a different character a little lockjaw.

So there's yes a little yes No making no mistakes

of what they're doing here, but I think it's

smart because it's like like we said last episode

It's very much a comic about comics. It's purposely

pointing to these types of stories because it's

looking at and seeing how much comics have changed

since the era because these characters come from

that same time period. So as life has changed,

they've been absent from it and they've been,

you know, really unaware of much of the changes.

And with Black Hammer's daughter coming into

the fold, we find out that there's so much they

don't know about. They don't know about the Internet.

And and I think she starts making a lot of observations

that you mentioned that make you question like

why haven't they Ask these same questions questions.

Yeah, exactly Considering how long they've been

there Yeah, like going to a library just to do

simple research about the town itself like this

is kind of like a no -brainer But when she does

it you're like, oh, yeah that would have been

a good idea for them in the first place and then

to make the discovery that all the Books are

blank, which kind of brought me back to when

I was watching. I'm forgetting the name of the

show, but it was on ABC and it was more of a

comic fables kind of on TV. Once upon a time

or whatever. Yes, thank you. Once upon a time.

It very much reminded me of that kind of scenario

going on, but I have a feeling this is going

to be better. I think I need to turn in my. Geek

card the fact that I knew that but I couldn't

get mr. Miracle that like that. I knew that name

I knew that show but that's that's disappointing

on many levels Many cute actresses on that show.

So I don't I don't be little you for that point

I've ever watched an episode to be honest with

you. I have watched The first two seasons and

then I kind of got bored with it and stopped

watching Going back to Black Hammer and even

though we only get really one issue or one small

story with with Black Hammer I do like him as

a character and the fact that like the choice

he makes the idea of like You know what? I'm

not gonna go off and save the world which never

happens in actual comic books. That's the big

change Yeah, yeah, it's exactly that never happens

It's always the other way like I'm gonna sacrifice,

but he goes the other way with it and the ramifications

that follow I thought that was Pretty poignant

move and again going back to the idea of subverting

expectations when it comes to superhero storytelling

I think that was a key piece of doing that because

like that was to me unexpected in a gun punch,

but in a different way Yes, and even though you

kind of know what happens of of them being stranded

on this place and Still him saying no to going

out to fight crime. It was it was like you said

a gut punch it Even with all this stuff you've

already found out you think he would have been

like, oh, yeah Okay, that makes sense. But no

it was a complete turnaround Yeah And man his

his death like they left nothing to be confused

by like, you know, he was dead like yeah Everything

all of his body parts his plane brain is flying

in the air his heart. It's just like well That

was pretty brutal that for a comic that has not

had a you know Really much action to begin with

let alone any violence it And he never seemed

like a dumb character either by the way and but

he did the dumbest thing ever by Taki walk. He's

like, um, I've got something coming up. Nope.

Just flying off right into this thing. Like he

does make like we've seen him. He doesn't always

make the right decision, I guess. Yeah. From

from not saving the world to Why did they still

put him in such reverence visiting his hammer

all the time if he was such a dumbass and kind

of got them there in the first place? I guess

since he was still you know it's like think about

Thor even the character of Thor he does a lot

of the same things he he's headstrong and overestimates

himself but ultimately like will sacrifice himself

though like yeah you're right he did he was the

the reasoning for all this but Maybe they should

be blaming him. I'm surprised that they're they're

not blaming him more. Maybe that's just you know

The sense of the fact that like he you know,

he's dead and he's not there. Although we see

that maybe some people Would prefer being in

his situation. Yes again We get some other big

character pieces with this volume as well and

we hinted about it last week especially with

Barb and what did you think of the? Conversation

the dinner he has with with the priest and how

that was executed I feel so bad for Barb. He

got hit down again like he was back in the day

goes after his partner gets turned down Okay,

that one makes sense Then he's got like all the

pops that are supposed to be on his side and

everything writing fag on his locker Which is

never nice. Don't do that kids Then he goes to

this priest who is very friendly with them and

you do like I don't know how he Jeff Lemire does

it but he does make it seem like This priest

really wants a part of Barb. And just like, no,

I'm not. And you're still kind of on Barb's side

of when he comes back to the church and is like,

yeah, you're not being truthful with yourself.

And you're kind of there going, yeah, I think

he's gay. But apparently not? I don't know. So

that's kind of a small question in the sea of

big questions here. Think you make a good point

how like you you see? Like you believe it like

you see where Barbara's coming from from especially

the paneling you see a lot where? Subtle touches

they have where they'll have a hand on the shoulder

it will focus in on the shoulder Just the overall

looks of gaze that the face acting with with

with the art is I think effective especially

with those two because it's such a key It's not

what's being said. It's what's not being said

that you need to really understand and it's portrayed

in a way that Makes you believe it and again

talking about subverting expectations. I Would

have sworn it in that situation when he was coming

back to confront the priest I don't know not

that he would apologize but like he'd be like,

okay, maybe I went too far maybe I Overstepped

my bounds, but instead he's like no I was being

honest I was being truthful and you you're the

one that should be apologizing and like you're

the one not being truthful and honest and That

again was was unexpected, but it certainly shows

growth from his as a character as someone who's

kind of turned the other cheek or or You know

use his aggression in other areas and not let

out let it out and just kind of pass along and

in that area Oh, he's not yelling at him, but

he is certainly a not Not taking the blame and

he's not holding that back. He's like no I This

is on you. This isn't on me. I know what I'm

I am I know what you are, but you're just not

ready to face it Yeah, which was again unexpected

it gets you to roof her more as a character Yeah,

definitely and but then it kind of comes to a

Turnaround when Gail kind of comes after him

and everything and he doesn't Really want to

go with her because he is right like she is a

little girl Yes, the adults mine, but a little

girl body which is kind of creepy well a lot

creepy just no again it's like no one can get

what they want in a way and you get where he's

coming from one he is not really doesn't have

the same feelings but even if he did just the

complications of trying to that that is like

a bridge too far i think for really anyone or

anyone that's of a right mind we learn more about

gail too you know seeing that you know she was

at the point in her life where she gave up being

a superhero Which is a surprise because you always

have the superheroes always getting drawn back

into the fight and always and she is just flat

out refusing. Yeah. Yeah. And she, you know,

she says no and she goes to her longtime foe

and they strike up a relationship. Which was

also Gail like just likes creepy relationships.

Yeah, she says that she likes weird dudes. I

don't understand how that one's creepy to me,

but it just. is like he was fighting her and

knows her as a little kid and like has seen her

as well i guess when we all grow up we all see

like pictures of our like you've seen probably

seen pictures of your wife as a little kid but

Probably haven't gotten to know her as a little

kid. It's just a weird situation altogether and

Sherlock Frankenstein is kind of a creepy looking

dude. So I don't know why that one's weird to

me, but it just is. I guess like the question

is, did he know she wasn't a kid the entire time?

Like, I guess he might have. Yeah. Because they've

been, you know, fighting so much that, but yeah,

that's kind of a good point. Though this is also

where I think Lemire is really expanding the

universe. Black hammer with all these additional

characters that are coming in from the ones we

talked about with Sherlock Frankenstein Who has

his own series? I don't know if you've read that

we won't talk about it here But I haven't gotten

to that one yet, but I know he does have Sherlock

Frankenstein Yeah, he has his own books it from

my understanding it was I think when he was more

of a villain I'm not sure but here we see that

he's actually turned over a new leaf and is Becoming

good and trying to get do good in the world What

I love about this book is what you get a lot

in this in a lot of these different issues since

these are two different worlds there's a lot

of pages where You have like split panels where

one panel one side of the page is the current

world the other page is like the past world and

especially with Dale like there's that moment

which is like screaming into Trying to say your

magic well the word the gate and gainers back.

It's not working It's not working. She screams

louder to the point where it actually breaks

the mirror and then she's in there with a broken

reflection and thinking back to like her relationship

with Sherlock Frankenstein and just in utter

sadness. So like I think Love the how they you

go back to that technique a lot and every time

they do I think it's really interesting way to

do it Yeah We you mentioned with a Colonel Colonel

weird weird dragon and dragonfly that we all

felt that in the first issue They knew more than

what was going on and we really get that sense

here when we see some of the actions that he

does to I guess portray the keep things like

I was you know, what were your thoughts on like,

you know, we see him take out his long lost friend

or yeah it's the best friend of all time so it

seems well since they've met they they've been

biggest thieves and apparently takiwaki has feelings

for colonel weir and everything so what is this

secret that's so big that he would kill takiwaki

especially after takiwaki gets re -motivated,

reinvigorated by talking to Lucy Weber. And that

was definitely a kick to the gut for me. I thought

the sassiness kind of made Takiwaki a lovable

character, even though it's a giant robot and

like, okay, you're kind of rooting for him after

Lucy talks to him because he is reinvigorated

and he does want to find a way off this place

and he was thinking about giving up and everything

and to just see him shot down after that it definitely

makes you feel bad but I think there's it seems

like there's a way that he or she whatever the

gender of this freaking robot is it seems like

there will be a way that It will get repaired

and everything. So excuse me. I'm very happy

about that I do I do like within that we see

talkie walkie the backstory and one of the ways

he learned about earth was through old television

and One of the shows that he clearly learned

was through the honeymoon here. So i'm like,

you know what? He's got yes got good taste got

good taste for sure picks the question is like

is he doing certain things to save to save them

or Or some of the choices that he's making to

keep them there. Like was that Like, what was

the purpose behind that? Why did he... It seems

like he's trying to stop Will from - Yeah, I

think he's trying to keep him there. Colonel,

Will certainly has a knowledge of, like, how

everything's supposed to go. Is he, like, the

person who has to, like, what exactly is causing

this? Like, what does he have to stop from happening?

I think it's a question that isn't - And he definitely

reveals, especially to Lucy, that he does know

future events. Because he goes we've been down

this had this conversation before and it doesn't

end well for you and stuff like that So you definitely

know he he knows what's gonna happen to everybody

I think he he is doing evil things, but I think

he's trying to do them for a good purpose If

others agree with them, I don't think they are

going to but I think he's he's trying to do good,

but just Doing it the wrong way, I guess Yeah,

like he it's almost like if King the Conqueror

was good having that level of knowledge just

would drive you crazy because you're trying to

Maintain you have to let things happen in order

for the world to work It's like you if you knew

Hitler was a thing and gonna happen That's like

and you couldn't do anything about it because

if you try to it would actually end existence

and yeah, what type of what type of Damage that

would do to a human psyche in a way plus he's

it seems like he's reliving the death of his

girlfriend over and over again with trying to

get back together with her and everything and

him being in this different dimension out of

time I guess too because when he showed up there

it was a different time Than when he left which

is also interesting because when black hammer

goes between Where the new gods live and his

spiral city He also loses time there. So i'm

wondering if that's something to kind of tie

in with Yeah, like maybe this is kind of like

this the new city that they're in the town is

kind of like Some kind of backup drive for where

the new gods live and everything Yeah, because

they sort of been there 10 years And she's probably

aged. I would say Around that same period of

time maybe a little longer because she'd be she

was like eight I'd say like eight ish It does

seem the time is certainly a factor here in some

ways in more ways than one like how first I thought

that was gonna be like they're at they were in

some normal town that just happened to be Like

a like a normal universe, but as this volume

that that really changed my mind because we're

seeing there's no there's no words in the books

and Again some of the things I had last episode

where there's that felt very what there were

some one -note characters, but then it makes

you wonder Okay. Well, maybe those characters

aren't who you think they are because are they

even really human or really people or are they?

Some sort of like creation of this world that's

being designed. You know, I mean, it's like it's

it's hard you still yeah try to determine exactly

what that is, but what I love about the series

though, is that that mystery is part of it but

it never feels like it's like the driving factor

for me it's in the background where it's really

the drama between all the characters that continues

to be what drives the story. Yes and then with

Colonel Weir doing all sorts of weird stuff you've

got Lady Dragonfly who's taking out Lucy's Webber's

memory of how she got to this farmhouse and that

that could have got them out of there. Why would

she take that memory away from Lucy Webber? And

then she goes to the extreme of helping out Abe,

who is kind of being set up for the murder of

Officer Trueheart, gets him out of that business.

But she's the one that caused the murder in the

first place. And it seems like she wants to be

the villain in this whole story, which definitely

makes her character more intriguing in this.

Volume of a black hammer than the first Yeah,

yeah again, there's certain characters like Dragonfly

and her that are weird that their their purpose

They have almost a tragedy to them too. Like

we mentioned like seeing your wife die or knowing

that last volume Dragonfly had lost lost a child

for reasons. We don't know yet Not everyone's

being truthful in a lot of different ways some

of them personally some of them with knowledge

about what's what's currently taking place With

this we obviously got less origins, but we got

more continuations of some of those their stories

It still did that format where like each yes

issue we got you know a little bit more like

album of slams we saw him try to come back and

become a I felt so bad for him where he's trying

to be a hero again. He has this like crazy outfit

that like Oh my god, that was out of Rob Liefeld

territory. I even wrote down my notes. Does this

reflect 90s comics? I thought it was a shot at

them for sure because it's like he's trying to

get it to work and he just keeps falling off

because they're oversized and pouches that have

no purpose and Like I'm not a big fan of the

character designs In the book to be quite honest

and just to see that it just got even worse It

was awful, but it was awful in the best way for

this one. Yeah, so it seeing him and then obviously

we see Gail giving her powers away and with making

her own little team as we mentioned and Including

a duck and I want a solo book or an issue just

about the duck That's that's all that's I would

love we don't get enough of duck like a little

bit more duck You never go wrong with with a

duck book, which again is it harkens back? I

was it was that the inspiration Howard maybe

maybe you know what if if Colonel weird has the

ability to go back in time to stop the Howard

a duck movie from happening. I think it's imperative

that he does that. If anything, most most of

all, he really needs to get rid of the duck boobs

in Howard the duck. Specifically, yeah, just

just and then like we mentioned we get a little

bit more of Barb's story as well as being a cop

and dealing with some of the ramifications He

had to deal with there and just again never fitting

in But having the ability here to kind of not

allow that to hold them back One of the relationships

you loved about last volume was Gail and Barb

Get a really big moment between them here when

you know legitimately we see that Gail may actually

like just be ending it all because she can't

take it anymore. Oh my god that was that was

very heartbreaking and I love the resolution

of that that was one of the very few happy moments

of Barb getting there in time and still want

to be your friend we'll get this to get through

it together if if you're not here with me like

it's gonna it was a very sweet moment in whole

bunch of like downtrodden origin stories and

moments in their lives and so I really enjoyed

that and I still really enjoy their relationship

and look forward to more on that yeah yeah and

and we talked about the town and one just other

thing I wanted to bring up is we do get some

some weird hints of like there's that moment

where Lucy is sitting at a bench and she sees

like this older couple that has ice cream cones

And they're just looking at her she smiles and

then she's sitting there for a while is walking

around someplace else looks up again Same exact

panel of them looking at her that woman did not

touch her ice cream cone So that's creepy. Like

how do you how do you maintain an ice cream cone

with the same consistency? Something's off. So

yeah, we're getting a lot more hands that you

know this this town as there's something to it

and Yeah, that was very groundhog day one of

my favorite movies by the way Oh, yeah, yeah,

so me so I was like, yes groundhog day She's

gonna punch him in the face and like steal their

money and but then we'll start next day. Yeah

again, this is I'm loving this series. There's

just so much to it I think if you are a comic

fan you like comics about comics or to see like

different takes on superheroes This is really

ideal here. We get we get a little bit more,

you know last issue the most the most like tense

scene was it was a dinner with a little bit more

here we get a little bit more of the action especially

learning how they all came and became stranded

and seeing like how they were plucked away and

they the only reason that they were chosen was

because no one else was left they were like the

last picked in a dodgeball game but so They were

the last ones picked because of ramifications

from Black Hammer's decision of Staying with

his daughter for her birthday, but it's all Lucy's

fault and so The fact that no one's made made

that point and maybe they don't know so I Yeah,

I don't think they know I think that was kind

of a private family thing Looking at how they

collected the volumes that they like they collected

issues 7 through 12, but they kept or sorry 7

through 13 The one issue that was kept out of

it, I'm starting to see which number it was,

because I read it in issue form, because I was

trying to see which issues went with what volumes.

It was like six issues each for each craftsman

volume. Yeah, 7 through 13 were issue number

12, they didn't include it in. That was an issue

that was all about Lucy, her backstory, so I

don't know what the purpose for that was, like

why they didn't include that issue, because you

kind of learn more about how she stumbled upon

certain things that she did. and learned about

her father. So it's not like pertinent to everything

per se, but I wasn't sure that the reasoning

behind not including that in the collective volume

of it. It was a different artist, it was a different

style, so it was almost like, I would say a glorified

filling issue in a way. It was still a good issue,

but if you're someone who's looking at, you know,

trying to collect it and you're wondering why

that's out there, I don't know the reasoning

for it, but it was a choice they made. There's

also the annual too that Maybe they're gonna

be like including that with the annual or something.

I don't know I don't know who makes those decisions,

but Yeah, I think the one thing that we're missing

is actually the big ending for this volume of

Lucy actually becoming the new black hammer What

do you think their ramifications of that are

going to be and she also reveals that she knows

everything now? Yeah, and I guess that means

like does she know everything regarding like

black like the black hammer We know what she

came That a dragonfly erased her memory. So is

that what she gets back and so this or she know

everything in the sense of She knows everything

why they're there in the place. They're at where

they're at and all that I'm guessing like it's

more so that she remembers some of the stuff

she did from the past or she so I don't think

she'll know everything or maybe it will be like

she becomes Black Hammer but it's too much and

then she lets it down she forgets everything

or something like that I'm not sure what the

ramifications are I don't think they're gonna

be leaving this town anytime soon maybe they

will the thing with a series like this just could

you know this could end next volume it could

go on for 50 issues I'm honestly not sure yet

do you have any theories of where it would be

going next? Absolutely no idea, but it definitely

makes me motivated to read the next volume or

the next issues, figure it out to see if Madame

Dragonfly is going to keep up and try and keep

her memory down. If she's going to just straight

out attack, if Colonel Weird is also going to

do the same thing, but it definitely keeps me

motivated to. to keep reading. And also it'll

be interesting to see what the ramifications

are of an actual superhero, assuming she'll go

out and try and solve crimes in the city that

there's the town that they're stuck in. Maybe,

maybe. And you would think like if it was kind

of weird how to see that coming, I would assume.

So maybe it was all part of what had to happen.

But is maybe the thing is what has is the end

goal of what, you know, that he sees. Is it positive

or negative? Because it could be, you know, it

could be them all seeing their fate, you know,

or what have you. So yeah, it certainly opens

up the door. It re -contextualizes everything

that's there so far. And like you said, who knows

what she could be fighting, you know, fighting

crime, maybe gigantic battle between them. I

don't think that'll be the case. But as we've

seen, this book likes to subvert expectations

and I feel that it's set up to make you think

that That will be the case, but it probably will

be something much different Yeah, all right well

Well, let's let's go ahead and bring this episode

to a close so Greg if someone wanted to get in

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That would be phenomenal. Let us know what you

like, what you don't like, what books you would

like us to cover. There's certain series that

you would like us to talk about in future insomniacs.

Let us know. We would be all for that. So if

you let us know what you think of Black Hammer

or the pieces about it, we're missing things

that you thought that you have an idea of where

it will be going next. Love to get your feedback

on all that. But I think, yeah, that will bring

us to the end of this week's episode. Thanks

everyone for listening. Coming up there's a lot

of fun things planned. But now remember, comics

are for everyone. The key is finding the right

one. Until next time, thanks for listening.