Beast Machines Retrospective Review

Be sure to check out all things transformers

with Steve Megatron and TFG one mic Hey, it's

David Kay voice of Beast Wars Megatron and TFA

optimus you're listening to the geek cast radio

network You're listening to all things transformers

version 2 .0 Welcome to All Things Transformers,

version 2 .0, episode 38. I'm your host, Steve

Megatron Phillips, and joining me again for this

Beast Machines retrospective is... Dave Jow and

Mike. And Pecan Court Michael. Welcome back.

Hey, how's it going? It's going. It's going to

Beast Machines. Yes. We head back to Cybertron

and the planet is completely dark and deserted.

And dead inside. Yes. And as we go through this

journey, one of the greatest Decepticon leaders

of all time is reduced to a drone body. Megatron

kind of looks like Orbity in this series. Correction,

he was not a Decepticon. I mean, he's descendant

of a Decepticon, you know what I mean, dammit.

Merry Christmas, dammit. Wow, I didn't know you

could do Cory Burton shockwave. No. Yeah. When

did you first see Beast Machines, Steve? Right

after Beast Wars. Really? Yep. I continuously

watched it from the previous iteration, so I

was all over that. As it were. Yes, as it were.

Wasn't there a pause in between the Beast Wars

and the Beast Machines series? There was a brief...

I think it was like a six months, eight months

thing. Oh, it wasn't longer? Okay. I don't think

so. Because I believe directly after that's when

Robots in Disguise and then Armada and the Unicron

Trilogy occurred. Okay. Yeah, cuz I did not watch

the Beast Wars on TV, but I was all over Beast

Machines yeah, I just gotten back in the Transformers

and It came on Saturday mornings and I made it

a point to wake up which was insane for me at

the time But yeah, I didn't miss too many of

them but and the ones I saw were like wow, this

is amazing Back in the day and that was like,

oh I don't want to say oh I'm trying to remember

what what like year it was. Was it like 1999?

Yeah, and yeah, it's like message boards were

up on the internet and people were Talking and

I want to say Bob skirt was online Yeah, he had

Bob secure net. Yeah, and he was talking about

it up until The end when everybody went ape shit

and tried to kill him and try to kill him. Yeah,

which is terrible because you know Bob He's a

good guy. He's an awesome guy. We spent two hours

with some knowledge Yeah, if anyone's listening

who hasn't talked to Bob or hasn't heard us talk

to Bob yet go back in the archives Find that

interview. It is awesome. It's well worth the

two hours. We spent talking with the guy Yes,

yes it is I'm just looking here on the TF wiki

nemesis part 2 aired May 7th 98 99 So what about

six months? Yep, you're right. It's about five

months the reformatting aired September 18th

99 So and it's it's funny the the the Fox because

it aired on Fox which is funny because Part of

Part of the show aired on UPN and then it aired

on Cartoon Network and then it moved to Fox Mm

-hmm. I think five episodes were Cartoon Network

and then they moved it over But uh beast beast

machines did the funny thing is is they had that

that song the music video that was kind of two

parts of the beginning of Beast Machines the

first like five episodes they kind of touched

on showing them transform and showing Megatron

and everything else and then you know touching

on the Oracle part of it and I always liked that

for some reason just because it was something

new and it was tied to Beast Wars somewhat so

it was a great teaser see for me Didn't again.

I I kind of noticed beast machines when it first

came out, but not really I had found that a number

of years later after I think I found it right

after I watched One of the unicorn trilogy cartoons,

and I'm like there's got to be something better

You know, there's got to be something better

for Transformers right now, please. And I found

Beast Machines, and I'm one of those people.

There are two cartoons that are out there in

the universe that I believe... two series that

I believe are one entire series unto themselves

regardless of how the production split it off

or change the format of the cartoon. And that's

Justice League and Justice League Unlimited.

I think that's one entire show because it lists

the runtime from 2001 to 2006. Beast Wars and

Beast Machines, yes, they are different. Yes,

Beast Wars was the comedy. Yes, I understand

that. But you're still taking the same characters,

putting them on Cybertron and putting them through

dramatic events. It's not like Megatron's personality

is completely different between Beast Wars and

Beast Machines. He's still the same sadistic

leader he's always been. Right. I'll buy that.

Sure. For a dollar. Keeps on trucking through

Yes, a little bit of shame if I had set that

up and you had missed it, but if you caught that

bus Yeah with a shovel But the characters again

they all follow through I mean and the relationships

that were present in beast war beast wars follow

through to beast machines sometimes Sometimes

in convoluted messed up ways Let's see, you say

that and I know you're probably going to talk

about Silverbolt. I love that they turned him

dark. I like happy, fun -loving, honorable Silverbolt.

He still has his honor in Beast Machines, he's

just been screwed over too many times and the

last screw over that Megatron gave him was to

turn him into a sadistic vehicle. The show's

been off the air for how long? I mean, come on.

I liked it. I really liked it when Rhinox went

bad. Well, we had already seen that previously.

Exactly. So seeing it, yeah. I still want a repaint

of Dark Rhinox from the Beast Wars series. That's

what I said last time when we talked about Beast

Wars. But then to see him go whole hog and he's

like... Yeah, I really liked it. And in fact,

I'm just kind of playing dumb because I'm that

smart Exactly. I mean that's brilliant. It's

just brilliant writing. Well the fact that he

you know, he went And then he's you know, just

playing Megatron for a dupe the whole time except

Megatron still had a backup plan in place Of

course he did the greatest thing about Rytank

is that he has... Tankox. Tankox, there you go.

Tankox, okay. The best thing about Tankox is

that instead of just getting the same voice actor

to do two different voices, it's two completely

separate voice actors. You have Richard Newman

as the Rhinox voice and you have Paul Dobson

as the Tankor voice. It was just so, so great.

Well, it makes me wonder if they had meant to

do that. Because as I remember, if I remember

talking from Bob, things changed a little bit

as they went through. So it's like, well, maybe

they didn't intend to have Tankor be Rhinox.

But then again, where did Rhinox go? He couldn't

really explain that away. Limbo, limbo, limbo.

Out in limbo well It's like we're out in limbo

hanging with mon star It wouldn't be the first

time that they just chucked a bunch of main characters

out the window in between you know seasons and

said We don't need these guys anymore Well see

the greatest thing about this cartoon series

is they did go back and explain it with each

of the via cons, right? With jet storm thrust

and tank or yeah, it took them X number of episodes

to get to it. Yeah, but that was the good see

this is why I love the storytelling and Beast

Machines so much is that they basically drop

you in cold like Like a refresh point on Call

of Duty or something drop you into a situation

cold and then as you go along you learn more

about it because these are the same characters

from Beast Wars and Again, that's why I love

the storytelling in Beast Machines. It's so well

done. It just is. Absolutely is. Okay, I know

this is a stupid question to ask Steve especially.

Outside of your namesake, what was your favorite

Beast Machines character? Ah, yes. Hmm. Well,

I don't know. And saying noble is a cheat. I

actually hated noble. Really? Yes. Why? I don't

know. I think it was because it was the beast

to beast thing. I thought that was brilliant.

I mean, I knew where he came from. I kind of

put two and two together. How many red dragons

are there on the planet? Well, I mean, cold and

calculating, I saw as, you know, the wolf part

of Megatron. Yeah, kind of the the playing coy

and everything else and then the you know just

complete rage monster was you know, the the savage

part yeah, so I mean it's it made sense why they

did what they did, but I Completely dislike the

character Just from the get -go. I like however

the night scream I I would I would take the bastardized

version of Megatron over Night scream any day

night scream was like He was the bastard child

of beast machines that no one wanted no one wanted

I will agree to a certain point on night scream.

He served a purpose. Yes He is horrible in the

beginning, but as the series started to progress

I would say not not not even the first season

I would say maybe the end the the final three

episodes of the first season or two episodes

or however many uh... we see season one yeah

i would say the key the catalyst and and the

line is kind of where he came into his own and

season two he slowly grows on you but in general

yeah that's a bad character that's that's almost

worse than you know chip chase kinda uh... character

nobody wants to be settled in the moti i will

say that i had three other favorites besides

megatron Okay. Okay. Of course I can't go without

saying Waspinator for what little he did appear.

His personality. Because that was just priceless.

And her reaction is priceless. And then... you

know, getting to the Maximals, it's kind of,

it was kind of a toss -up because in Beast Wars,

I liked Primal better, but in Beast Machines,

I like Silverbolt slash Rattrap better because

Rattrap was the cocky know -it -all and kind

of, you know, able to come up with stuff, which

he did, but he was at a disadvantage for the

longest time. I am a disabled person, so I can

say this without feeling like a jerk. Did they

put Rattrap in a wheelchair -like body to placate

disabled people? I don't think so. I think it's

because he had the wheels in transmetal form,

so it kind of was their way of putting him into

that. Yeah. He did kind of look like he was in

a wheelchair, though. Yeah, it did. I never thought

of it that way. I don't think it would be to

placate disabled people, but it might be... It

might have been a way to include people of all

abilities. I don't know, maybe. They included

the emotine. So, and the Botanica had a very

interesting accent that one might say might have

been exotic, let's say. Yeah, very... They got

red traps, wheels rolling. Oh my god, that was

not... That was one of the best things about

this series. I don't care what anyone says. Because

look at Rattrap as a character from Beast Wars

to now. He's always been the, we're all gonna

die. You know, he's always been the pessimist

about it and... his pessimistic attitude because

she also has a pessimistic attitude leads to

love you know so there there is that i don't

remember her being pessimistic well okay argumentative

then because the two of them argued like it was

no tomorrow and then they stopped her yeah she

had more hope yeah and she was all about the

plants whereas rat trap was all about you know

everything else the technology basically doing

whatever good to help make her happy Yeah. Well,

it's in the garden. Oh, it's in the garden. Yeah,

sure. Whatever. But as far as, like, Veikons

are concerned, I... Well, I like Tankor's form.

And I think he's pretty awesome. I like Thrust

because he's almost... He's almost like the Inferno

of the series, even though he's voiced by the

same guy. He's almost like the intelligent version

of Inferno here. He's pretty much got undying

loyalty to Megatron. I'm waiting for him to say,

for the Queen, and that... No. No, no, no, no,

no, no. This is my Queen! I told you, stop calling

me that! I do wish he'd quit calling me that.

I'm really glad that it wasn't just Inferno in

a new body. I'm really glad that it was Waspinator.

Yeah in new body. Oh, yeah, you know so For me

in the via cons. I liked them. I thought they

were awesome. Yeah thrust was great I thought

jet storm and the build -up for jet storm how

dark that character is to only be revealed that

He got forced into doing something that he didn't

want to do and then he reveled in it. He enjoyed

it Yeah, you know silverbolt even says in the

series. I reveled in destruction yeah I enjoyed

it and I shouldn't have and that's what makes

silverbolt to me one of the best characters out

of the entire beast era I could do without silverbolt

and silverbolt it might have been the toy that

turned me off from silverbolt because the toy

it was the ratings now long before it was you

know well before Michael Bay's Starscream came

along there was you know silverbolt the chicken

bot It looks like a big blue chicken. Oh, it's

awful. It's an awful toy. I saw the Samurai look

they were going for with silver bolt which harkens

back to Beast Wars which made sense to me But

but I just didn't like the character now jet

storm Just storm was my favorite character on

the show He would he was just crazy like like

manic insane crazy, and I really liked that.

I thought that was really cool You want to talk

about a 20th or whatever anniversary toy that

needs to be remade is Beast Machine Silverbolt.

There was a repaint done, because the first version

of him, yeah, you're right, he looks like a chicken.

But there was a second one done that was more

show accurate. Super chicken. the purple and

pink one was a little bit more accurate. But

yeah, no, we'll get into the toys here in a few

minutes, but for me, favorite characters, I didn't

really like, I loved Optimus once he went optimal

in season three of Beast Wars. Now that he's

gone all ape shit. I don't know, he's just not...

I didn't really like the evolution of him, or

I should say the de -evolution of him. Now, Cheetor

is another story. Everybody knows that my favorite

character overall the entire Beast era is Cheetor.

And I will maintain that Cheetor is basically

growing up from a kid to a teenager to a young

adult or even an older adult. And in Beast Machines,

he hit his stride. He was able to step up and

take leadership when Optimus couldn't get off

his monkey ass. You know, everything about Cheetor

was just amazing in the series for me. I'll buy

that, yeah. He really came into his own. What

about you, Michael? What are a couple of your

favorite characters? Oh, like I said, I really

like Jet Storm. I thought he was a great character.

I liked the maintenance drone. I thought he had

an awesome personality. He was hilarious. Yeah,

he was like he was like Megatron's talking to

him. Yes, Jeeves. Jeeves. I require this. Whatever

you say, Megatron. It was like shockwave in bitch

form. Like bitch form. I like that. And another

character that I liked. And for completely different

reasons is strika When striking us and obsidian

showed up, you know, they were basically new

characters and it was like, okay, this is interesting

but The fact that that you know, we have a new

female character who's a tank Mm -hmm and like

this great big old mother Russia type character

I will spank you into the ground. Yeah, I just

thought that was really cool Eh. One thing I

did not know about Beast Machines is that, like

Beast Wars, it too had an original name that

was never used until years and years later when

Hasbro re -trademarked it. Beast Machines was

originally going to be called Beast Hunters.

That was the original treatment. Yeah, but there

was also a different premise for that. Right,

right. But this is just something about the show

that I never knew. Now, when we did talk to Larry

DiTillio, we asked him if it hadn't gone to...

if Beast Wars had gotten two more seasons out

of its continuity, what would they have done?

And he said, we would have put them back on Cybertron.

I don't know what they would have done with them

on Cybertron if it would have been anything close

to what we've gotten in Beast Machines, but either

way, it's a nice little... Little thing to know

I think I think it would have been nice to explore

their new environment Yeah, because one of the

things that pissed off all the long -term fans

was that Cybertron was green And maybe that like

green with chlorophyll but green with You know

mechanical plants. Yeah, and it looked cool You

know I I know a lot of people were upset with

it. They said, that's not the Cybertron I grew

up with. But at the same time, you've got a whole

new environment to explore. Yeah. They could

have pulled a lot of new stories out of that.

Oh, yeah. I will say that what we did get for

the story of Beast Machines, like I've already

said, I thought it was really, really great.

And it's a story that has kind of continued on.

Through the ages because you have the same thing

going on now With prime and whatever the name

of the cartoon that's gonna be following up prime

next year Look at the end of look at Predacons

rising right and then look at Is it endgame?

Oh, what is that last episode called? God you'd

think I would know I love this show Yeah, that's

what I'm saying you think I would know us yeah,

it is Yeah endgame part three seeds of the future

look at seeds of the future and then look at

the end of Predacons rising with optimists going

back into the well of the allsparks right and

You know, it's very similar that oh, it will

always continue. Etc. Etc. Etc. So I don't really

dug that. Shall we briefly talk about the...

This is one thing I don't like about this series

is how vastly crappy and different... This is

not supposed to be G2 colors, dammit. The Beast

Machines toys, all the aesthetics, all of them

suck. You think so? I don't know. I like the

colors. Don't think the colors were all that

bad. I think the designs were bad. Yeah, I think

it was more so that because Are you referring

to the non show accurate nature? Yes? Okay, it's

not that they weren't bad transformers because

they were good and some of them you can tell

we're clearly reused from other molds Right,

but I think that Think that they could have been

done much better Compared to what we got Namely

you look at figures like the gigantic cheetor

instead of having a smaller one. Oh They didn't

have a smaller cheetor. They had a Voyager size.

Oh, yeah that it yeah, he can't stand either

No You look at the deluxe optimus primal and

he was terrible Yeah, see for I like that toy

for what it was. It wasn't a very good optimus

primal They didn't really get blast punch optimus

primal and that one looks Pretty show accurate

was that the the smaller one or they let's see

ultra the ultra Okay. No that one is not only

show accurate, but he's all of his fingers were

articulated, which I think was a first Yeah,

that was actually really cool. All right No that

rat trap was awful I think it looked neat. I

didn't say it was a good figure. That was terrible.

I liked how you could swap out his wheels for

legs. Yeah. So he could actually stand. Well,

not really, but okay. Supposedly. This is going

to be a hallmark of the series. They don't stand

very well. In fact, they even came out with a

small series of rideable vehicles so that they

wouldn't have to stand. They could just hold

on for dear life. Yeah, I had one of those. That

was the Mechatron. Uh -huh And then I put the

megabolt Megatron on it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, which

unfortunately was the only Megatron figure for

the series, which was bad shit terrible. Yeah

Yeah, so I guess yeah That's about all you could

do with that particular form though. I mean Not

a whole lot you could do for that guy Yeah, I

mean they could have made him bigger that would

have helped with the detail. They could have

done a lot more with it then You know what I

will say about Megatroid? And I wasn't even talking

about like I know megabolt Megatron is the head

They could have done that a lot better So that

it even if it didn't transform to a robot they

could have made it so it transformed from the

head to the ship But then there's the the cloak

Megatron right Which was terrible. That should

have been an ultra, and then they could have

done it right. Yeah, it was a mega toy, but I

gotta say that um... Even though it kind of sucked

as far as the cloak not really covering everything

up as far as like having his feet stand out there

Yeah McDonald's did it right in the Happy Meal

toy for 2000 Oh god that was an awful figure

Okay yes, yes it was as far as the robot mode

it was but they got the cloak right They got

the cloak right They got the cloak right That's

sad I know right? It's sad when McDonald's gets

the cloak right and they're like They're like,

well, you didn't cover them up right while McDonald's

did. Yeah, I wanted to paint them up as a Coke

can and, you know, roll over. I wanted to make

a cloak for my Transmetal Tube Megatron so bad

and then do it right. Oh, well, how did you how

did you even go about that? I don't know. I saw

a bunch of kitbashes back in the day of people

doing it. Surprisingly, they did a good job.

Alright then That's like okay sure you know what

I liked it is the The whole bunch of interesting

basics toys that they came up with I mean they

had a they had a wasp they had a gecko They had

a bowl They had a snake. I don't remember any

of their names now, but They had a snake The

battle unicorn is probably one of the coolest

Transformers ever I dig him Think most of the

I think most of the the basic figures actually

were the best figures at the line Yeah, well

eventually they came out with a really nice basic

tank or Yeah, that was real cool. There's a shudder

Well, it's gonna get overshadowed by the generations

version which we're finally getting an actual

show accurate tank or now maybe Well, it's supposed

to be kind of like the show accurate waspinator

rat trap and Rhinox that we are getting Yeah,

I don't I don't want to say overshadowed though

because I mean this was a really cool toy for

the day Yeah, I just I just wish that some of

the old toys were More show accurate. Yeah, but

on the bright side we got Dinobots out of it

Yeah, the dinobots line was kind of cool. Yeah.

I mean it was the first time we had a Like return

of dinobots. I think they actually named the

most of them properly they were all redeco's

but Well, they were redeco's of Japanese figures.

Yeah, I mean and technically the dinotron was

the dinobot figure with a new Chest and a new

inner head. Yeah. Yeah But I like those a lot

thought those are pretty cool So what were some

of your guys favorite episodes of the series

Ask Michael cuz I'll just say all of them No

cop -outs alone pick five You're trying to use

my own logic against me that's just so wrong

that's like anti logic There's such a thing.

Yes, there is. You've got Blanchard's name all

over it. But I liked... I'm looking at the list

of episodes here and I'm like, oh crap, I don't

remember what any of these are about. We did

a whole podcast on them. We should have listened

before we recorded. Three years ago, I should

have been listening harder. Well, looking back,

I really like the one where... rat trap makes

the deal with Megatron and that I mean has there's

a lot going on there and It the aesthetics the

design the CGI there how everything is kind of

shadowy but backlit from behind in like reds

and blues it It was just really well designed.

I really stood out. I really Michael you there?

Damn it. Did we lose him? Did you hit mute, Michael?

What? Did you hit mute? No. Well something happened.

You cut out for like half a second. Uh oh. That's

not good. Alright. Redo Skype. Yeah, I was about

to say, what was I saying? Uh... Something about...

Oh, right now. Well yeah, I was talking about

the design of that particular episode. About

how you know is all a lot of it was done in silhouette

with with a with like a red background light

or a blue background light It was just powerful

Cinematography, I guess what you'd say if it

were if it were a movie But you know that this

the scenes were laid out very well. It was very

powerful. I mean it was moving When tank ox finally

said ha ha I'm actually Rhinox, you know that

blew me away Really like that episode. I think

that blew everybody away I think when Megatron

finally got into his The head ship body The head

what how was that called? Yeah, he was ahead

of his time. Yeah Should have stopped while he

was ahead That's what she said, but I really

liked that I thought that was a cool episode

Yeah, I think that's you know, I think one thing

that I want to say is as far as All throughout

all the episodes is the background music was

really good Yeah, you know, yeah, even the intro

music was like It reminded me a lot at the time

of like the music that they introduced for like

Batman Beyond Mm -hmm. It was kind of the thing

around 99. Yeah Spider -man unlimited had it

Batman Beyond had it Beast machines had it. I

don't think I watched spider -man unlimited It

only lasted 13 episodes on a cliffhanger and

it got outshined and beat by Batman Beyond Yep

Yeah, Batman Beyond just had really good background

music. Like, you know, the fight scene music

was really... Batman Beyond was infinitely better

than Spider -Man Unlimited. Yes. Everything Batman

is better than everything Spider -Man. Well,

I don't know about that, but... Most of the time.

Yeah, you're right the music. Oh my god So I

really need to email my contacts at a certain

record company and ask them if they would ever

be able to do Soundtracks for both Beast Wars

and Beast Machines because you're right Michael

the background music in this series in Beast

Machines was Awesome. Yeah, it just was And that

soundtrack, for both series really, Beast Wars

and Base Machines, they need to be out there.

They really, really do. I mean, if La La Land

Records can, after 23 years of not having an

official soundtrack for Days of Thunder release

one, I'm sure they could do Beast Wars and Base

Machines. There's no reason why they could. I

wish they would, honestly, because... And I was

going to bring that up, funny enough, because...

That series just honestly deserves it. It's such

a good soundtrack for the whole thing and it's

pretty sad when you have to go on YouTube to

find some of the tracks which somehow are out

there without background music or without the

background vocals. Yeah, even though we don't

like night scream the episodes that he like his

for no listen Even though we don't like like

night scream himself the episode where he premiered

even then Even for a bad character the music

was awesome Did he have his own theme song? No,

no, but I'm just saying like the background music

around the circumstances of them meeting him

and the chase music when they were chasing him

when they first met. Oh, the chase music, yeah.

Yes, yes. Yeah, it's like, it's like, da da da,

we're trying not to be seen by this army of bad

guys that are searching for us, and then the

music will kick in and you're like, aw hell.

Exactly. Run Cheetor! Run Cheetor, run! Use that,

use that, that ninja speed you got there, and

he's like, see ya! Or he kind of blurs it, you

know, it was very matrix II the way he would

do that Yeah again around the same time here

around the same time period Yeah For me in the

episodes outside of cheating and saying the entire

series if I was going to pick several I like

the the first two episodes the reformatting and

master of the house I love the multi -parters,

revelations, spark war and endgame. All nine

of those episodes are simply amazing. The revelation

as we talked about earlier about Jetstorm being

Silverbolt in Darkest Night and a wolf in the

fold, those would be my favorites. If I was going

to pick one favorite kind of moment, it would

probably be the shock of... Rat Trap and Botanica

Kissing. Because, well, you don't expect it.

What else are they going to do? They're sitting

there yelling at each other and next thing you

know, she's got her vines all over him. Tentacle

porn. Tentacle porn. I see they remember a conversation

about that last time we talked about this. The

freakish tentacle multi -limb creatures. Very

kid -friendly. You know, I was disappointed that

we never got a Botanica figure. Really? She never

did? No. Well, I mean, it's sad because, you

know, like I said, we got a bull, we got a snake,

we got a tiger, you know, we got a unicorn, for

Christ sakes, but we can't get a plant lady.

Well, the funny thing is, is we get a shitty

character like Transmutate and we can't get Botanica.

Well, and it's not like say you say oh, it's

a girl you can't have a girl character because

no I gotta Yeah, right here on the eraser Well

eraser wasn't in this series, but strike it right

girl. I guess if you Stryka was a cross between

a German and a Russian lady. Come with me if

you want to live. I wish they would do more with

Beast Machines. Well, like, surprisingly, they

were actually going to. And it was going to be

Transtech. Right. Which was going to be the follow

-up. Yeah, that would have been really cool.

I think if they... I think Transtech was kind

of Hasbro's way to segue away from beasts into

something more vehicle -ish. You know, where

they would have had something that looked like

a car cheetor. Or... Well, the thing was, is

they were going to have some with... It was gonna

be more cars and more vehicles, but they're gonna

have their their paint jobs from Their beast

form right so the same characters the same colors

just vehicle modes, which would have been cool

It's like hey, we you know they weren't even

the same characters I don't think I think the

idea was that they were supposed to be in an

alternate reality But they were alternate reality

versions of the same character. It's a It was

picked up on techno -organic cyber trend following

the events of beast machines Okay, and it was

going to be a mainframe and entertainment CGI

series And it says that Cheetah was going to

be a cybernetic race car with cheetah like paint

job prime It was going to be a truck whose front

end looked like an ape's face He was like the

Prime, not Primal. Primal, right? Okay. And then,

uh, they were gonna have, uh... Ha ha! Truck,

not monkey. Yeah. Truck, not monkey. Um... You

got your monkey in my truck! You got your truck

in my monkey! Well, they were gonna have, uh...

Maximals carrying over from Beast Machines would

have been Black Rat in the Edge, Heedore, Night

Scream, Silver Bolt, and Rat Trap, and then a

returning Beast Wars character of Depth Charge.

And then it said returning generation one characters

would have been Optimus Prime, Shockwave, Starscream,

and a new character called Immorticon. And then

they had sketches for a Megatron and Scavenger

figure, but they only had prototypes of Cheetor,

Starscream, and Prime. I remember seeing pictures

of the Starscream. Yeah, I think I saw those

as well even though they don't mention it Yeah,

I seen you remember but you know it's as nice

as that would have been to get back toward vehicles

and like a futuristic kind of You know kind of

a neat non -vehicle ish way, I guess They decided

to go with the robots guys said right right there

was already in production in Japan And to be

honest, those are really cool toys. I mean I

was at by the time beast wars with the beast

machines was wrapping up I was already importing

the the Japanese the robots in disguise toys

I didn't think they'd come to America because

I thought they were gonna do transtack or more

beast machines or something So, I mean I had

the toys I think it was BotCon 1999 And I was

there and I bought I bought the Bruticus repaint

and I bought the the three car brothers Yeah,

well they were imported the baldegus. They called

it baldegus in Japan, but and I was excited I'm

like heck. Yeah, I'm gonna buy all this shit

But then next thing you know trans tech is scrapped

our ID is in the US and and they're they're making

American versions You know now with Cheetor one

last thing about him is they did Kind of update

him with his trans tech design since they were

never used in animated. There was an animated

toy design done by Derek J. Wyatt. There was

a... was a timelines toy done of it. And he was

in the BotCon 2011 animated comic book. He was

partnered with Sideswipe. I loved that. That

was amazing. I was going to say, was that the

blur repaint? Yeah. Yeah, okay. I've got that

somewhere, I think. I think I do. Yeah, maybe

I don't But like to me looking at the design

that Derek did up it looks very just the way

it's designed and yeah, sure. It's the blur Mold,

but just it reminds me so much of the actual

Beast Machines design right of the character

Yeah, at least it at least in the legs. I mean,

you know if you look at that Right. Well blur

was made to have those wheels on his leg. It's

just like the trans tech two -door Right, right.

So it's almost as if they had that transtech

cheetor in mind when they built him. Yeah Or

when they designed him I should say yeah Overall,

I still love beast machines series. I can go

back to and watch it anytime such great storytelling

It's absolutely awesome, I like that head You

just shared a link of transect cheetor or not

the transect cheetor but the timelines cheetor

which is the the yellow blur with the spots and

I just remembered that he had a Remolded head

and it looks really cool And the funny thing

is is they had a rattle trap in the series which

looked like rat trap And then they had depth

charge Yeah in the timelines. Oh yeah, he was

in the timelines, that's right. Yep, he was yelling

at Cheetor. Oh yeah, okay. That's one thing that

I absolutely, and we'll get to this in a couple

of weeks, but that's one thing I absolutely loved

about animated is after it ended what they did

with the story for the BotCon year. Right. I

thought that was great, and we'll get to that.

It's kind of sad that Beast Machines didn't get

any comics. Don't think they did did they they

kind of did with the bot kind stuff the universe

oh Okay, it all got touched down in there, right?

But they tied a lot. They tied a lot of other

stuff in there. I mean the universe tied in a

little g1 Yeah, Rodimus Prime showed up the Dinobots

showed up I want to say that the Beast Machines

Dinobots showed up not the g1 Dinobots Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, they did a whole bunch of weird stuff

they included a bunch of of um i want to say

earlier characters or earlier uh exclusive characters

that just kind of showed up yeah i was like why

not throw them in there too okay yeah this is

you know this is a classic case of pre idw storytelling

that yeah i just don't even remember because

it wasn't that good Yeah, you know, I really

do wish that IDW would do something. I don't

think Hasbro will let them, but I wish that they

would do something that takes place after the

end of Beast Machines, somehow do something showing

the planet reform. Like, even if it was just

like a two -issue miniseries or a one -shot or

a four -issue miniseries, I don't want a full

ongoing. I would like something that... kind

of shows you and again this is why i say uh beast

machine beast wars and beast machines and transformers

prime and whatever the new transformers prime

2 or whatever the new one's going to be next

year this is why they are so similar because

uh stop snickering at me damn it i heard that

um you know at the end of beast machines cheetor

is essentially the leader because prime and megatron

are off with the with the AllSpark and Matrix

and whatever else. At the end of Prime, Bumblebee

is essentially the leader, just like he is in

the current IDW continuity. Cheetorimus Prime?

No. No, no, no, no, no. I like that idea. And

my Rye Tank was bad. Come on, now. Cheetorimus

Prime. Cheetorimus Prime. Cheetorimus Prime.

Cheetorimus Prime. Cheetorimus Prime. Cheetorimus

Prime. Cheetorimus Prime. Cheetorimus Prime.

Cheetorimus Prime. Cheetorimus Prime. Cheetorimus

Prime. Cheetorimus Prime. Cheetorimus Prime.

Cheetorimus Prime. Cheetorimus Prime. Cheetorimus

Prime. Yeah. The thing on his head. Don't mean

the thing. The thing on his head. Awful. So,

but I see where you're going with that, but I

don't think that that continuity ties in with

Hasbro's... plans. What do they call that? That

revised... Aligned. Aligned continuity. Realigned.

It's not just aligned. It's re -aligned. It's

the re -aligned count. Re -configured. Re -aligned.

Re -universe. Yes. It's a continuity transformed.

And now that everyone has said re -aligned five

damn different times, the whole thing of Godsmack's

song re -aligned just popped into my head. Anyway.

It's a transformation revelation. Yes, you're

tasting music stuff. It's not Beast Machines.

What? Beast Machines. Come on now, God's Mac

isn't that bad. I honestly don't even know what

band that is. Yeah, I'll shoot you a link. Is

that what the kids are calling it? They used

to do the Army song or the Navy song with the...

The YMCA? What? No. No. Was it that song or was

it a different one? I Stand Alone. I don't think

it was I Stand Alone. That was the Scorpion King.

I Drink Alone. It was the Navy song. Yeah, with

nobody else. Ever say what I drink alone? I prefer

to be by myself. It was Awake. Oh, Awake, yeah,

yeah, yeah. For their Accelerate Your Life commercials.

Yeah, that was awesome. And then they had What's

His Face on the commercial. Yeah. I don't know.

No, what I'm saying, Michael, is that, yes, Beast

Machines is not in the same continuity as what

Hasbro is doing now. I'm just saying that the

end of Beast Machines and the end of Prime are

similar with having the two kind of second -in

-command guys, Chudor and Bumblebee, eventually

in the next series would rise up to be leaders

if Beast Machines had ever had a next series.

See, I was all ready to give Steve Melching credit

for doing something original with Transformers,

and it turns out he was just copying Beast Machines.

It's a lie! It's all a lie! Damn it! Damn it,

Melching! Well, if he was on Beast Machines,

he did do some story stuff on Beast Machines.

Yeah? Okay. So, you know, it's not necessarily

a... It's not stealing if you're stealing from

yourself, right? It's short -term borrowing.

It's... It's reuse, you know, I Reuse I I wasn't

pleased with the whole idea of optimus prime

sacrificing himself for the good of transformers

kind Uh, sure i'll buy it but I wasn't I wasn't

into it and I don't I I mean It's not transformers

of optimus prime doesn't die But hasn't he died

like three times already in the series and there's

only three seasons You shouldn't have to die

once a season Wow Yeah, we'll get to that in

a couple weeks. Because next time around, I'm

going to have to do my research before we record

the next episode because... Your research? Yeah,

because I just... I've said this from the beginning

that until RID gets a US release, which I believe

it is getting a US release from Shout Factory

eventually. Once it gets a US release, that's

when I will finally sit down and actually watch

it the Unicron trilogy I don't know if I can

sit through that crap Yeah, you know like Armada

I enjoyed Armada You know, it was you know, like

Cybertron was just awful Oh boy, was it awful

but like Armada had a Armada had a really interesting

Starscream. Mm -hmm. It was the start, you know,

and again, this is Little bits of prime that

were stolen from earlier works. They had a star

scream who turned good You know who decided he

wanted to be a good guy for a little bit I want

to say he may or may not have been in love with

one of the human characters Oh my god, it's it's

A girl loves Powerglide all over again. Holy

fuck. And Starscream has a big heart inside his

chest when he opens up the front panel. It's

really cute. You should have seen it. And it

beats. And his heart grew three sizes that day.

It went thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump

thump thump thump thump th They reintroduced

Unicron, which was really cool. And spoiler alert,

Unicron kills Starscream. That's no big loss.

Well, no, but how cool is that though? It's like

you're just hanging out trying to be a good guy

and this giant beam from space obliterates you.

Well considering where Starscream left Unicron

in G1, I would think Unicron would come back

and kill him in... Exactly, yeah. You know? Anything

else for Beast Machines, guys? No, not especially.

I mean, it'd be nice if they did something with

it. I mean, as far as... I don't know, giving

us more of what happened after the fact, but...

Seeing as though it doesn't tie into the realigned

continuity, then I don't see that happening.

I mean, we're honestly lucky to get figures.

Yeah, that's that's true. 15 years from now when

they release a or maybe 10 years from now when

they release a 30th anniversary of Beast Wars,

you know, maybe we'll get more figures. But right

now, just happy to get the few that we got. Yes.

Some of my. Favorite episode since I didn't get

to that, Mike. Oh, I'm sorry. Is there anything

else you'd like? I'd like to be included. Is

that too much to ask? Ass -ass. Speak up, damn

it. I like the reformatting because you get to

see the revised Beast Wars Season 1 characters.

Yeah. In all their newfound CGI glory. It looked

a little strange to me when I first saw it. Some

of them I liked more improved and then Cheetor

or something about his face bothered me. Something

about the way the spots were on his face. It

didn't look right. But that's to be expected

for them recreating old models or updating them.

I like to master the house because you can see

Megatron's face showing up and then he's putting

down Primal. It was great. And then Fires of

the Past, you get to see the Vietcongerals, even

though they're annoying with their thrust staff,

you know, afterburn and, you know, all this overdrive

and pulverize. And it was just annoying seeing

that over and over. But it was interesting seeing

them kind of take flight in the show. Is it almost

as bad as saying maximize every time you transform?

They eventually stop doing it. Every time. I

Liked it though. I thought that was cool. I like

I like it for some reason like an anime when

they call out their attacks before they make

them Yeah, and then and then they have the the

goofy splash screen behind them as something

slaps into place in a little Bolt of electricity

behind them goes off and then they transform

into whatever it is It doesn't matter what it

is. I mean you watch Transformers, Power Rangers,

Pokemon, any of that stuff, it's all influenced

by the same thing. Yeah, yeah. I was about to

say, I don't remember that happening in Beast

Machines. They did it a little bit when they

were getting ready to do their runs. Well, what

they did in Beast Machines was they used they

used color models. They use color effects when

they transform like like when they when cheetah

went from a cheetah to a beat to a robot It looked

like his entire body was cracking open like an

egg on you know, this is your brain This is your

brain on transforming drugs, you know, it was

that kind of thing It was like they never meant

to have toys that would ever do this. It's like

you can't they're not going to have a transformation

sequence because you just How do you get from

this to this you can't? Yeah. Yeah Yeah, that's

why the toys were crap, but It's a crap from

this model. That was crap, right? You can't get

from this model to this model, but the way they

did it was the way They just started glowing

and limbs came out from the body and next thing,

you know They were in their different mode. I

mean it worked. I liked the idea I didn't complain

I don't think the fans complained nearly as much

as when animated came out there was a rumor that

they were gonna do a Tasmanian devil spin and

then be in their new form. Thankfully, thankfully

that never really happened. I think they happened

a little bit, but not in the not in the full

model transform. Well, that's right. No, they

they had they had stock footage transformations.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you can actually see them

transform and they they use those a lot. But

occasionally you'd see them just go, you know,

that'd be it. But not so much in. Beast machines

because it was almost You know, they did that

glowy thing that still looked kind of cool It

was a very organic transformation. That's what

she said I Didn't I said organic not orgasmic

Blackarachnia, you're having an orgasmic transformation

over here. Especially when Silverbolt, I mean

Waspinator, came out of thrust. Talk about making

all six of her eyes bulge. What was that? Those

were eyes? Six, eight, ten, whatever. Was that

Meg Ryan scene when Harry met Sally and Blackarachne

is in a diner going, yes, yes, yes, and then

she's a spider. Oh, fuck. There goes my boner.

Well, she is a black widow. It was hot for a

second. And then she ate him. And then she ate

him exactly. Go ahead, Steve. Two favorite episodes

are Spark of Darkness, where Megatron sparks

floating around into random bodies, some of them

looking like mixed mashes of Tarantulas and Dinobot

and Veikons and a drone. You kind of look like

the spike bot. Some of them. Yeah. And then and

then, of course, see the future. It was an in

-game part three where Megatron is optimal and

grows three sizes that day. That was he falls

into the pit. Yeah No, that was really cool.

He's like, ah, look at me. I Got your nose and

the rest of you. Ah Good time drawn by its toes

By the short hairs and optimus came to pick his

nose. I Have a rhyme with hairs Think it's funny

that his old catchphrase comes back in an episode

chairs my great ascension is finally complete.

Yes He should have used that a little more often

And it's funnier yet when he says When primal

says the great transformation awaits Megatron

prepare to be reformatted no As he falls into

the pit Waspinator has plans! He has plans, yeah.

Waspinator never gets what Waspinator wants!

No, the funny thing about the whole Savage Noble

thing, I remember Skeer telling us this in the

interview, he tasked Len Wein to write that,

but he never told Len that he was writing for

Megatron! The funny thing about... this show

is there are so many plot holes that they just

overlooked. Like what? Well, for instance, because

I thought the writing was pretty tight. It was

pretty good. You don't have like a low road episode.

There's no fluff here. It's no. And I'm glad

that storyline pretty quick. It's pretty tightly,

you know? Yeah. However, when you look at like

end game, when Optimus or I'm sorry when Megatron

is flying the optimal body underwater and in

nemesis primal couldn't fly underwater But he's

Megatron he can do anything right Megatron is

the transformers version of Batman from the same

specs So there's no way it could have happened

that way plus if Megatron's falling into the

core couldn't you just fly out? No, that's true

I will escape my death today to hell with you

primal Rumors of my disease were greatly exaggerated.

They were greatly constipated Shut Organic material

all over the planet. Well, I guess Primal and

Megatron were the butt end of the joke there,

weren't they? At last, my Great Ascension is

complete. So I'm looking in the wiki and I'm

trying to find the pictures of Areas the pictures

of Megatron in the optimal body for some reason

thinking that maybe they changed the color or

something But it was just the head that they

changed It was just it was just like optimal

optimus with Meg wasn't even the head of it wasn't

he removed his organic form though Yeah, well,

yeah, yeah, but he still had the big ass feet

Yeah, but they were yeah, but I mean the biggest

feet were gorilla feet that was that was the

reason they had those big feet I Was gonna say

oh, yeah. There you go. Okay, so it's just like

the Megatron face inside the optimal helmet Yeah,

and I don't know for a second there I was thinking

wouldn't it be cool if we had an optimal optimus

with with a Megatron head, but nah you know maybe

if it changes colors or something but you know

how many optimal optimuses i had you know how

many pieces of waspinator i had oh that was a

good one but no i i i want to say like everybody

had one and then immediately lost all the pieces

so you'd find them all on ebay And yeah, I think

I had like six or seven and I cobbled together

maybe three complete ones and sold off two of

them on eBay and Then I kept one of the incomplete

ones Just so I could have optimal optimus in

two different forms on my shelf. I Used to have

two different optimal optimus Except the first

one I kept the second one. I tried to create

optimal Megatron. It didn't work out so good

Try to swap out the head. Did you ever see the

the primal prime? Yes, I did. I never owned one,

but I did see I found one one once and I bought

him and he's he's uh He I never opened him. He's

in my closet somewhere, but that was a cool toy

I Like the colors of it. Yeah, he was translucent.

I remember right. I mean he looked in parts Yeah,

no, I mean he looked like an optimus prime It

was a very cool toy. Well, and it was designed

after the primal dawn It's it's a old bot con

remnant Donna features past new before that primeval

dawn. It's when They bring back Tarantulas with

the Vok, and then they have Tigatron and Eraser

come back separately infused with Vok powers.

And then they have Primal Prime, who's... It

scanned the thing that Quickstrike used to make

optimal move. And the Matrix, and Optimus Prime,

and it created Primal Prime out of it. Okie doke.

Wow, that's ugly. You gotta scroll down and look

at the toy. No, no, no, it's just the first image.

That's ugly. The art here isn't very good. No,

and the toy, oh my god. What? That's a cool looking

toy. Why would they do this? I like it. I guess

every series has to have a red white and blue

optimus, right? It Why wouldn't they? You know

what honestly bring this toy back paint him blue

and yellow make him a Ultra Magnus, I'll buy

it. I'll buy it. Oh, don't even get me started

on that. They'll never bring it back No, they

should make him a Look at him, he's all vacuum

medley too. They should make a masterpiece of

it. Now that I'm scrolling down a little bit,

I see that they were going to make a titanium

version of it. They did, but it was of Optimal.

Well no, I mean they have, there was a titanium

version of Optimal Optimus, wasn't there? No,

I don't think so. Yes. Oh, there was? Yes, I

almost bought it. Yeah, I'm looking up at this

at my shelf and yeah, there is he any okay? He

had a really crappy transformation, but yeah,

no, I got that but they were gonna repaint that

That particular figure into primal prime But

the titanium it looks like they were gonna make

him a Toys R Us exclusive too, but the titanium

line got cut short It's just like D1 but with

giant monkey hands If you keep doing that you're

gonna have huge hands I don't care That's what

happens when you play with your feet I got prehensile

toes look how big my feet are You think my feet

are big? Check out my cockpit Okay, on that note,

next time on the podcast we will be talking about

Transformers Robots Disguise and the Unicron

Trilogy. Oh crap. Oh stop. Oh my god. That was

funny. Oh my god. I wasn't even thinking that,

but I'm glad you were. Oh crap. You're gonna

have to close it, Mike. I can't keep my composure.

Thank you for listening to All Things Transformers.

We will be back in a couple of weeks with the

Transformers RID and Unicron trilogy episode

for episode 39. I am TFU and Mike with a uncomposure

Steve Megatron and a um... Salty pecan court

Michael unleash the geek in you transform rollout

all that good stuff. We will talk to you next

time