Origins with Steve J. Ray on Comics and Favorite Runs

Hi, this is Kevin Conroy, and you're listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. You've just jumped

inside the pull bag. Join TFG1 Mike and the rest

of the comic crew here at the GCRN as they make

their great escape into comics. From DC, Marvel,

and Image to IDW, Bloom Studios, and Xenoscope,

we have everything right here. We cover things

like Transformers, He -Man, Super Heroes, TMNT,

and Radiant Black. Yeah, we have all that and

so much more. It's all inside the pull bag here

on the Geekcast Radio Network. So without further

ado, it's time to talk about the comics we're

reading right now here inside the pull bag. This

is Kevin Conroy. And I am the goddamn Batman.

Hello and welcome to The Pull Bag. This is episode

414. That's right, 414 episodes, folks. Eight

years here inside The Pull Bag, only on the GeekCast

Radio Network. I'm, of course, TFG1Mike. And

joining me today is a... a man who does a lot

of podcasts himself. He also does a lot of writing,

a lot of this, a lot of that. You've heard him

on the DCN, the DC News podcast with Kendra and

Edward and Brad and everybody else they have

over there. It is Batman Doesn't Do That Himself,

Steve J. Ray. What a wonderful welcome. Thank

you for having me, sir. Absolutely. This is going

to be a blast. Oh, yeah. Ladies and gentlemen,

we normally don't talk about news items on this

podcast because we are not a news podcast. however

i i have to bring up the fact that uh dc is like

yeah batman don't do that why not everybody else

does i you know i i understand their point of

i've got every article here i understand their

point of that they sell toys to children But

there are plenty of action figures in the last

40 to 50 years that aren't exactly kid -friendly

either. I can think of several different Beast

Wars or Beast Machines, Transformers, Cheetor

toys that it just looks like a sex toy. So for

those that don't know or for those that have

been living under a rock, Harley Quinn, executive

producer reveals DC KO'd Superhero Sex Act. Because

Batman and Catwoman quote don't do that Heroes

like Batman and Superman routinely go above and

beyond to save random strangers on the street,

but when it comes to a little Reciprocate reciprocate

it guy came and said in the in the sack executive

producers of HBO Max's Harley Quinn say DC Comics

would rather Have its superhero characters dance

with the devil in the pale moonlight than show

them engaging in oral sex. Oh my god. I don't

know what kind of a world we live in where shows

like Walking Dead can show people being hacked

in half, faces ripped off, brains being eaten,

but won't show a semi -nude human being or swear.

And DC Comics can have the Batman Who Laughs,

who is one of the most terrifying looking characters

in the history of comics, but won't show a couple

making love in any which way. That's life, I

guess. But hey, Batman Damned, number one, sold

out worldwide. Why? Because Batman had his bad

-o -ang out. Well, this is the world we live

in, Michael. Don't know okay, so I could understand

this if Harley Quinn was not aimed at like everyone

that I have ever ever ever Have like I don't

know what your situation is because this is the

first time we're actually talking folks married

kids I'm not sure Yes Okay, yes, and yes to both

of those All right. Well, are you gonna show

your kids Harley Quinn at any point before their

21st birthday? Well, my son's 25. So yes, okay.

Well, I'm saying The things I do for Gotham,

but otherwise are you gonna show a ten -year

-old Harley Quinn on HBO Max? Yeah, like this

isn't TV from when we were kids in the 70s and

80s and 90s because TV back then You had to watch

a show in order to watch the show if you missed

it you missed it now we live in a world where

television has evolved to the point where we

have paid streaming apps where you actually have

to pay to see the conflict. They're not HBO Max

and whomever I don't know Warner media whatever

it is now I have no clue Warner discovering Warner

Brothers I don't know whatever the point is.

This isn't on an actual television. You don't

need those parents from the 80s at the PTA. Oh

my god Transformers is too vile. Oh my god. GI

Joe is too vile. Oh my god Look what he man did

to She -Ra and they related eww like oh my god

get the thing out of your butts We've lost the

comics code authority. Come on. This is an 18

plus show. Let's lose that shit for TV as well

It's a grown -ups show Like and seriously who

is buying unless it's like I don't want to necessarily

say DC superhero girls versions of Harley But

who is buying their daughters and maybe one of

our super fans scanner 51 you may answer this

question probably I'm not targeting you sir,

but Who is buying them Harley Quinn dolls kinda?

You know what I mean? Like, or, you know, Catwoman

or Batman. Like, I don't know. It's just one

of those things where this is a cartoon on a

paid streaming service that specifically says

adults only. Only dumbass people that don't know

how to parent would show this to a child. I salute

you, sir. Never has a truer word been said. I

just don't get it. Like like it's gonna ruin

their image. I mean hell Batman peeing on the

Joker Ruins an image and that was in the I forget

what issue or I remember somebody said there's

a famous comic book page where Batman's peeing

on something or somebody This is whatever. Anyway,

so we are here. Like I said to get the comic

origins of how Mr. Stevo here got into reading,

into or out of reading comics, because sometimes

we get out of reading comics. Question one, did

you grow up reading comics? At what age did you

first remember reading or noticing comics? I

don't ever remember not having comics. And in

the UK, I don't know if you're aware, it's a

very different experience, particularly back

in the 70s when I was growing up. For example,

my first introduction to comics must have been

from an older cousin and Back then we had big

like a four -size anthology books black and white

and these books would collect Stanley Steve Ditko

spider -man and a Dick sprang or that era Batman

story in the same comic So I knew of no differentiation

between Marvel and DC as a kid. I read Spider

-Man. I read Batman in the same book. And of

course, my gateway drug into the whole thing

was Adam West's Batman, because that was rerun

on a loop on UK TV throughout the 70s. Now, that's

a very innocent origin. I was reading comic books

like Beano and Dandy, which are like probably

your equivalents of Dennis the Menace or probably

Archie, which we didn't get over here. And then

some cousins from Canada and the States when

I was about seven or eight Brought over some

American comic books the stuff you and I know

the smaller Comic books and one of those was

issue four five seven of detective comics the

first appearance of Leslie Tompkins There is

no hope in crime alley now to a seven eight year

old child He was used to Adam Weston Burt Ward

running around in broad daylight In their 20

miles per hour batmobile this book changed my

life he was finally me learning batman's origin

it was why he full crime in the night just as

a bat and i've always been booked ever since.

So was it your cousins that you would say that

kind of got you into the more American comics

because the next question is as a Kid was there

a parent a friend who just said here kid read

this comic and go away kind of thing like who

like Was it those family members that kind of

really got you into it or had you already kind

of been? Basically the influencer for you to

start reading the comics That was what really

Got me hooked. I'd always read them. I said I

was reading the funnies But that book which was

it was only past the Neil Adams stage It was

I think believe reserve Novick that drew that

issue, but here was a comic which was like Not

your dick sprang. You're more white in here.

This was like a Batman who was looked and moved

like a human being facial expressions a dark

Evil -looking city muggers criminals and as an

eight -year -old child that made me think well

hang on so Batman's Batman Because his parents

were killed in front of him as a child and I

was a very lonely Child I grew up Morris Allow

me back in those days. My parents had to go to

work I was at home for seven hours a day and

these days I'd probably be in a well But back

in the 70s, it was commonplace. So my best friends

were books and comics, but that's the one that

got me hooked. Before that, I liked a comic,

I'd pick up a comic, I'd swap a comic, I'd tear

a cover off a comic to put it on the wall. But

that one is what made me a fan. So those cousins

in Canada, Marie, thank you so much for doing

that because my life, what I do may not be happening.

if not for that one, Denny O 'Neill comic. Absolutely.

When you were a kid, which characters were your

favorites? Which did you always read? Oh, well,

clearly Batman. Obviously. I also loved some

of the British stuff. Doctor Who. Still a title

I pick up regularly. I actually review those

books. Spidey. more was my second favorite because

again those black and white anthologies had spidey

and batman so i was initiated into both worlds

immediately um here's one that might might scare

you of course 2000 ad i don't know how much how

would you have about the book that gave us judge

dread and rogue trooper and stuff like that yeah

i know of it but i've never actually read it

Oh, magic. Still got the first 100 issues of

that. I couldn't part with them, even though

I sold about 300 or 400 more of them. Yeah, I've

got all, and this is something that's going to

make you smile, brother, because I know you're

a fan as well. I have all the Marvel UK Transformers

books. That's awesome. All of the Bob Budiansky,

all of the Simon Furman stuff, the Origins of

Rodimus, of Primus. All that stuff where they

tied in the movie universe, the animated universe

to the comics have still got all of those. G

.I. Joe, which in the UK was called Action Force.

That's the stuff I grew up with. Very cool. All

right, folks, it's time for that age old question.

And as I can kind of already tell, it's a little

bit of both, maybe leaning more one way than

the other now. But DC or Marvel? Oh, see. In

the 80s, it was all about Marvel until John Byrne

went over to do Superman. And ever since then,

I mean, Marvel are doing the movies, they're

great entertainment, they're great fun. They're

still about as deep as a puddle, but they've

cornered the market on the movies. But I think

they've let their comic books slide. Apart from

a few titles, Immortal Hulk, um whichever x -men

book tom taylor's writing at the moment it kills

me to say this but marvel comics aren't great

um whereas dc from the 80s and 90s apart from

a few hiccups in the new 52 but still there was

some good stuff there too i think dc for comics

are killing it because they've just got the range

they've got the child comics they've got the

young adult comics they've got black label they've

got kill house so While I'll go see a Marvel

movie all day long right now for comics, it's

DC. But hey, there's also Vault Comics, and Dynamite,

and Image, and lots of other stuff out there

as well. You're jumping ahead, dude. What other

publishers do you enjoy reading? You haven't

even seen these questions, and it's like, I can

look at his screen right now. I just love comics.

Mike, honestly, my poor wife got a comic collection,

a physical comic collection, 10 ,000 plus. Oh,

my God. How do you have the space for all of

that? My wife calls it the world's most expensive

loft insulation. She's probably right. I just

love comics. Batman alone, I've got sporadic

Batman issues going back to the 40s. I mean,

some of those are reprints. Don't think I've

got, like, Kane and Robinson originals here.

I don't. But I have an uninterrupted Batman detective,

Nightwing Robin, Catwoman, going back to 85,

uninterrupted, never missed an issue. Wow. So

just Batman alone, I've got, like, 40 -odd years

worth of uninterrupted Batman. More than that,

85, 95, 05. 15 yeah, 40 odd years uninterrupted

Wow Well, the next question seems silly now print

or digital which one both either or and why You

know, there's nothing like Walking into your

local comic book store talking to the guys who

work there. Mm -hmm getting their recommendations

and then just opening this book and that new

comic smell, opening the bag, pulling it out,

there's nothing like it. However, I have started

the transition to digital because like you said,

world's most expensive loft insulation, space,

all that kind of thing. And hey, if you're going

abroad on a holiday and you're sitting on a beach,

you do not want paper comics. No. Have it on

there. Couple hundred comics on there, thumbs

up, but nothing can beat the physical. I do like

digital, I appreciate digital, but there's nothing

like holding a physical comic book in your hand.

That's my take on it anyway. For me, and I will

say this in every single Origins episode for

the listeners that have heard previous Origins

episodes, I started out with print and Punisher

Yes, the omnibus The anus 12 issues my hand hurts

What the hell welcome back Frank? Brother I was

That was destroyed by carpal tunnel syndrome.

I cannot hold an omnibus book either. So I feel

your pain I didn't really like okay. I know trade

paperbacks. I know TPB's I know generally they

are Sometimes four maybe six or seven or eight

issues But I did not realize Like literally and

it wasn't because of the content and I will probably

if I remember to link the episode where we talk

about Because we talked about it back in 2014

during one of our Punisher months back then I'm

sitting there reading it and I'm enjoying it

however every time I have to move it or flip

it over or flip turn the page Like my like I

literally fell asleep in my chair the book fell

on the floor while I was holding like No, yeah,

it was like it's because it was that damn head

the physical omnibus was that damn heavy just

like oh my god and then like the next week i

jumped on comixology and i haven't looked back

and the other reason why i jumped on comixology

and i have not looked back is because nobody

else there are some times that the guided view

technology that they have doesn't work quite

so well but most of the time i would say nine

and a half times out of ten it works amazingly

and seeing comic books in panel form in Storyboard

form I can never go back. I can never go back

to print. I agree with you Yes, there is nothing

like going into the comic shop if you're a comic

Collector just to get the book to to frame it

to board it to whatever you're gonna do with

it as a collection I agree But as far as reading

the stuff Oh God, I can't it's just too much

I find it painful to read my Watchmen Noir and

my Killing Joke Absolute because they're just

so damn big. It's so massive, yeah. Oh, man.

And the worst one? The Wednesday Comics Collected

Edition because you know about Wednesday Comics,

right? Refresh my memory because my memory is

pretty poor. It's the best. When you pick it

up at the comic book store, it's the size of

a standard comic book. But it opens up into a

huge tabloid newspaper like the old Sunday Funnies,

like the old big spreadsheet comic books. So

it was 12 issues, which ran every Wednesday for

a while, for three months, I guess. And they

collected it into book form. But obviously, the

book form is the full hardcover, like broadsheet

size. So it is physically unreadable. But damn,

it's beautiful. That's one of the best series

of comics ever. If you can pick that up, get

it. It's great. Wednesday Comics rules. But it's

a bastard to read. I'm sure it is. All right.

Who are some of your favorite comics writers

and why? How long is this podcast? Can be as

long as you want. OK, so listeners strap in writers.

OK. I'd be remiss not to mention Simon Furman

and Bob Budiansky for the Transformers. These

guys named Optimus Prime. Before then, they were

just toys that changed from one thing into another

thing. I know it's Transformers, I know I'm a

grown man, but hey, that's my opinion. Secondly...

Frank Miller except everything after the first

dark nights and please don't get me started an

all -star Batman and Robin but his daredevil

is Electra Batman year one and the original Dark

Knight returns are absolute classics But what

about the master race? Please I saw I'll leave

it there Obviously I can't Be a Brit and not

mention people like Alan Grant, John Wagner,

Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman, legends,

heroes, geniuses, all. But then I've got to talk

about some people that aren't mentioned so much.

I've got to talk about people like someone who's

making great comics right now, Ram V. Keep an

eye on that guy. I think he's going to be an

absolute legend. Jeff Johns. His politics and

what he gets up to on film sets, notwithstanding,

the guy can write a comic book. There's no denying

it. But then I miss people like Matt Wagner,

Darwin Cook, writer and artist, legend, man whose

work I sorely miss. Of course, Denny O 'Neill,

the man without whom I might not even be on this

show right now. One of the finest comics writers

and editors in the history of the industry. So,

they're the ones that come to mind, but I could

literally, Mike, I could be here all night naming

writers. Absolutely. There are only 11 volumes

of Sandman? In book form, yeah, but then obviously

you've got the stuff that... Well, you get the

omnibus, but I mean... Don't get the omnibus,

you'll drop it. Well, I don't... Well, not digitally

I won't. I mean, I could, you know... I could

just spend the 20, I'm not going to do this because

I'm poor, but you know, I could just spend the

25 bucks instead of the 599, 699 each for the

trades. But anyway, what's that? I've only got

the individual issues for Sandman. I don't own

the trades. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Seriously

look at that. I was there when they came out.

I've had these since they came out. Yeah. Now

you can blame some of these next questions on

Kendra because it's mainly her fault What defines

a good story to you? Oh That's a great one One

that gets my attention and keeps it Mm -hmm one

that even when I've closed the cover has me thinking

about it One that makes me stand up and laugh

One that kicks me in the feels. All of those

things. One that I enjoy so much that I can't

wait to talk about it with my friends and colleagues.

Or one that I'll go into the aforementioned comic

book store and chat with the guys and the shoppers

about. It starts sometimes with something as

simple as someone saying, hey, have you read

this? Yeah, absolutely in character. That's that's

what draws me in. Yeah Well, speaking of drawing

you in you just kind of answered this one again

blame Kendra What does a story have to have to

draw you in since you kind of just answered that

I'll ask it this way What does a story have to

have to keep you really? There are plenty of

number ones out there in the last 80 plus years

of comics that people don't go past number one

because something in that issue turned them off

to the story. So what keeps you reading something?

An engaging premise, a lead character or characters

that make sense. Dialogue that sounds like it's

being spoken by people, not by robots. So George

Lucas, please don't ever write a comic book.

And I can't lie, a comic book is a mixed media.

It has to be well written and it has to look

good. Or if it doesn't look good, look different.

Grab my attention. So what will keep my attention

is great characters, great dialogue, and either

great or nice different looking artwork. There's

nothing wrong with words coming out of robots

mouths just as Grotum's prime Touch though. He's

got the power. That's right Who are some of your

favorite comics artists? Oh, man, that's even

harder than the writers But you back to the beginning

once again Neil Adams Jim Apparo Steve Ditko

Some of the more simple, but it's so bloody hard

to make art look that simple. People like Steve

Rood, Alex Toth. Again, Matt Wagner, Darwin Cook.

Alex Ross, who's actually just a fine artist

who happens to draw comics. Or the ones who are

consummate comics artists. What they do is comics

art, and that should never be knocked. People

like George Perez. and he's a legend and he's

one of the nicest human beings you could ever

hope to meet. I love that man so much. In today's

day and age, obviously my countrymen, the Spanish

invasion that's taking over the world, Jorge

Jimenez, Jorge Fornes, Daniel Sanpere, Álvaro

Martínez, Raúl Fernández, all these guys are

absolutely killing it in the comics world right

now and they're brilliant, they're amazing artists.

oh wow um who else am i really digging right

now they're the main ones right now but then

going back to the legends once again i love pat

broderick's work gil cain oh how could i forget

gil cain legend um yeah they're the ones that

come to mind immediately and John burns Superman

run Jerry old way. Oh, well, I mean come on the

Batman 89 movie adaptation Has there ever been

a better -looking movie adaptation in the history

of the world? Nope. No So yeah, they're the ones

that come immediately to mind my friend I would

love it if if we didn't if Darwin hadn't passed

away Oh, man, if he hadn't passed away when he

did I would have loved it if we could have got

him on a Batman Beyond book because that short

he did for the 75th anniversary? Oh my god, I

need more of that. Mr. Wayne? Mr. Wayne! Terry,

you're hurt. Just groggy. Who did this? It was

me. Destroy it! Way ahead of you! Padmobile!

Ignition! Sorry pal, but you're history. Who

sent that thing? It didn't say. Whoever it was.

They didn't stop at one. Seven against two. Pretty

bad odds. For them. Abs -lucking -footly. Yep.

Alright. Do you have a favorite non -superhero

title? Oh, yeah, I do, absolutely. It's a great

sci -fi book from Vault Comics called Wasted

Space, which is just incredible. The art looks

like a Western. But it's like a cyberpunk horror

comedy sci -fi Digger religion and complete attack

on Trump's America sci -fi fantasy. It's friggin

awesome I love You say non superhero. Yeah non

superhero family tree Jeff Lemay's family tree

for image. That's a great book as well The Savage

Shores, Ram -V's book for Vault as well. Yeah,

loads. I love comics. They don't have to be superheroes.

They're my favorites. I'm not going to deny it.

Superhero books are my favorites, but there's

tons of great non -superhero books out there.

That Kendra woman. That Kendra woman. I am hooked

on Beasts of Burden as well. All these cute little

animals having adventures. Damn, that's a great

comic. That's so good. I told her this, and I

don't know if she sawed it out, and I'll tell

you this again. I believe it's... I want to say

it's from Image. It is called Kennel Block Blues.

It is written by Ryan Ferrier. And it is... It's

kind of amazing actually Right now at 799 on

on no, it's not from image. It's from boom. It's

799 I comics ology Oliver is a good dog a family

dog, but without warning He is sentenced to Jackson

State kennel where he's instantly placed on death

row with the rest of his fellow inmates Awaiting

a lethal appointment of so if salvation doesn't

come he'll need help escaping the kennel but

when the stress of prison life builds he starts

escaping reality instead and imagining a fantasy

world of cartoon friends it's time to break out

into a musical number question mark rising star

writer ryan farrier from sons of anarchy curb

stomp and russ manning award nominated artist

daniel blayless from power rangers And Jim Henson's

storyteller dragons explore loss mental illness

and the horrors humans and animals alike endure

when incarcerated in this inventive heartfelt

journey How many issues come out so far? It's

it was only a four issue series. It's a It's

currently a trade paperback as well. Like I said,

it's eight bucks on comixology and it is it's

One of the best animal books I've ever read when

did he come out? 2017 for the trade so the series

probably ran in 2016 most likely I'm on that.

Yep. Definitely. I love all the animals Okay,

what is your favorite run of a series so we all

know like you look at Batman He has over or how

you look at spider -man. He has over 800 issues

Yeah within those 800 issues. There's a run that

there's a run of a story, you know So what is

your favorite run of any series? Oh There's so

many great ones down slot spider -man for a start

He got me back into spider -man and I quickly

lost interest after he left Everyone talks about

Scott Snyder and Grant Morrison's Batman, so

I'm not going to go down that road because everybody

already knows those works of genius. Instead,

I'm going to go back a ways further. Peter David's

Incredible Hulk. That was absolutely stellar.

Not many people mention Andy Diggle's Swamp Thing

because it was only six issues, but that was

great. I cannot not talk about Alan Moore Swamp

Thing because that is the granddaddy of every

grown -up mature readers comic that's out there

now. There would be no Vertigo. There would be

no Black Label without Alan Moore Swamp Thing.

Great runs. Claremont and Burn on X -Men. Burn

on the Fantastic Four. Definitely not Burn on

Doom Patrol. My god, that was atrocious. Doom

Patrol. Morrison's Doom Patrol. Actually, that

was brilliant before Death in the Family. Read

The Cult, because Batman The Cult was the first

story to do Batman being broken, Batman being

beaten, Batman coming back. He did that first.

Court of Owls, Nightfall, everything came after

Jim Starlin's Batman The Cult. What is the one

comic you can read over and over again, no matter

how many times you've read it, single issue or

trade? Well, there are some books I read every

year. Watchmen is one of them. Frank Miller's

Daredevil Born Again is one of them. Or Frank

Miller's Daredevil, that's another great one.

Marvel's... Kingdom Come. Alan Moore's Captain

Britain. That's one that's very hard to pick

up. The only thing he ever did for Marvel. I

can read that forever and a day. The Killing

Joke. Of so many. Camelot 3000, I know that people

laugh at that now, but I'm sorry, I love that

series. I learned more about non -hetero relationships

and other forms of love, because let's face it,

love is love, from comic books than I ever did

from real human beings. Yeah, those are some

of the ones. I'm probably missing out about a

million, but those are the ones I read. Almost

religiously on a very regular basis Wow, very

cool. Very cool Are there any? Are there comics

you avoid all together I Never I've tried believe

me. I've tried really hard. I can't get into

manga I don't know why. I look at the art and

some of it is absolutely astonishing, but the

exposition, the pacing, something about it just

turns me off and I just drift away. I can't get

into manga at all. It's probably because I was

spoiled. I came into manga with Katsuhiro Tomo's

Akira and I still don't believe anything's matched

it. So yeah, I can't I try I can't get into manga

Are there any comics in the past or currently

that you wish you hadn't read them? Yeah, Frank

Miller's but also Batman and Robin dark night

strikes again don't like three master race Without

a doubt those Yeah, I we've only ever covered

Superman once on this podcast and it was probably

the worst decision I ever made because Again,

black label was a new thing and I wanted to try

something that was that I thought was going to

be different I should have realized because it

was fucking Frank Miller, but we've reviewed

the first two issues of Superman unchained or

Superman. Yes No, Superman year one is what it

was And I'm like, okay, I like the first two

issues. I read the solicitation for the third

issue. Batman and Wonder Woman show up. And I'm

like, how the fuck is that Superman's origin?

Exactly. Anyway, Mike, put yourself in my shoes.

I interviewed Frank Miller and John Romita Jr.

when they were still working on that. And I was

talking to them and the editor was giving the

both of them dagger eyes because they were dropping

spoilers and bombs left, right and center. um

genre meter says to me um yes so the first few

pages is you see superman in the rocket leaving

Krypton but you actually see everything from

the baby's perspective and it's so cool and it's

so different i thought wow i like that that's

really great and lo and behold yes in the comic

that was fantastic and he was yeah and then he

joins the navy and um of course being from being

a farm boy he loves to see i thought oh my god

yeah this is great stuff i love the sound of

this yeah and then it says of course yes you

see this first meeting between batman and they

go hold on First meeting with that one. That's

already not year one Batman year one was the

first year in Batman's career him getting to

Gotham City and learning Superman year one is

basically Superman's origin story over a number

of years. It's not year one But hey at least

John Reese jr. Drew it Yeah, I still look so

I have the first two issues of that series And

I refuse to spend the $11 for the trade because

I already have the first two issues. I just wish

Comixology or specifically DC because it is done

by DC when we get sales and stuff on here. Like

it's still eight bucks. I'm sorry. I don't need

to read Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in

Superman's origin story for eight damn dollars.

I'm very privileged because writing for DC Comics

News and Dark Knight News, I get every DC book

and a whole bunch of others free to read digitally

to review. But I'm a comics fan. When I read

something that's freaking great, I will go out

and buy it afterwards. Hence the reason why I'm

reading stuff like Geiger and Noctera and tons

of other great comics, because I get to read

them first. But if I love them, I'm not that

selfish. Kill them for free. That'll do me. No,

if it's a great comic, I'll sing about it I'll

shout about it and I'll go down to the shop and

buy it. I Completely forgot that Superman I mentioned

Superman Unchained earlier. This is from 2013

2014. That's The art is Jim Lee. I forgot that

Snyder wrote it. Yeah, I'm like Yeah, Scott Snyder

is the writer on this I was like, holy crap.

All right. So you've mentioned it earlier in

this episode. How large or small is your physical

comic book collection? 10 ,000 plus. Really?

Yeah. Just my office, the stuff that's not in

boxes is about 3 ,000. And then I've got about

25, 30 long boxes as well. And that's not counting,

um, the shelves in my living room, which have

got like 70 odd Marvel trades. So yeah, it's,

it's, it's conservatively 10 ,000 is probably

more than that. Wow. Oh, you just think about

Batman. I mean, we were talking 40 years with

the Batman and that's like, just detective and

Batman alone is two titles a month. And then

it was biweekly for a few years recently. And

then you've got Nightwing, Catwoman, Robin, Harley,

plus miniseries, Justice League. My Batman collection

alone is probably about half of that. So yeah,

that many. My wife's so happy. Alright, so this

question is is probably gonna make her really

really happy and I always preface this Everybody

is safe. Every human every pet every every living

organism is safe But the house is on fire and

all the books are burning. What is the one comic

you would run in and save? Oh That's impossible

Leave me to die in the house That's like asking

me to choose my favorite child oh my lord, um

No, I'll die there with them Okay, then Sorry,

I can't 457 the one that started it all. There

you go. There you go. See that was easy It wasn't,

I'm dying inside. I hate you. Well, it's a good

thing your house isn't on fire, and you don't

have to run in and save a comic book. Yes. What

was the most money you ever spent on a comic

or comic item? Honestly? I bought all the stuff

that people would probably kill me for when it

first came out. So, honestly, I've never paid

more than about 25, 30 bucks for a book. And

that was because it's a big hardback book, which

costs 25, 30 bucks. When I see some of the prices,

I mean, stuff as recent as Dark Knight's Metal,

because I bought all the individual issues. And

I see some of those going for a couple of hundred

bucks a piece. I think, well, what? That came

out five minutes ago and what? So, of course,

that's when I said to my son, I say, son, get

me all the Dark Knight special trade paperbacks

for Father's Day. And he goes, all right, dad,

cool, job done. But honestly, the most I've ever

paid, actually, no, I didn't even pay for those,

they were gifts. My absolute additions were given

to me by friends and family. I don't think I've

ever spent more than 30, 40 bucks on a comic,

and I've never needed to. But you haven't like

gone to a convention or anything and gotten like

artwork or things like that or anything Nope

good. Oh, really? Hmm. Interesting. Oh Well,

that's I'm just I'm gonna shut up. I get given

our And Alvaro Martinez original sign Neil Adams

and Recently Sam Lotfi and Brad Anderson drew

The Comics in Motion team, so myself and the

other Comics in Motion podcasters. And I've got

that framed in my office as well. I'm Fat Man.

And I've never needed to. I mean, I've wanted

to, but dude, I've got 10 ,000 comics. If I brought

anything expensive into the house, I'd be dead

divorced or both. It's probably a good thing

that I have. DC sent me a Batwing when I got

promoted to editor -in -chief of Dark Knight

News and my wife wants to throw it out of the

window because it's, you know the big Batman

the animated series Batwing? Yeah. It's a three

foot, yeah. Oh, you have to send me a picture

of that so I can put it in the post. That's awesome.

Yeah, dude. I'll do it as soon as I come off

the call tonight. I'll send you a photo to my

office and loves that one. That is awesome. Was

there and it doesn't seem like there was but

was there ever a moment where you were done with

comics like you just wanted to walk away Wanted

to know but felt I had to yes That would be one

more day You know deals with the devil yeah When

you're in your 20s And you meet someone and you

decide to get married and all joking aside, I

married the most wonderful human being in the

world. We celebrate 20 years of marriage next

month and 32 years together and she's a wonderful

human being. She supports my career, my writing,

my podcasting. She said to me, Steve, make yourself

a home office. So while she complains about the

thousands of comics and quite rightly so, she's

the most amazing woman in the world and I adore

her. But when we first got together, I sold a

couple of thousand comics and that helped get

our first place and it was a good decision. But

I almost walked away completely. But then when

you look at when that was, that was the era when

I thought, well, comics, I love them, but. Am

I ever going to see anything new? And then. Karen

Berger and Len Wayne came along and stole Alan

Moore from 2000 AD in Marvel UK and got him writing

Swamp Thing and then Vertigo happened and I was

dragged kicking and screaming back into the comics

folder and I haven't looked back since. Awesome.

What are you reading right now and what do you

think our listeners should check out? Tom Taylor's

Nightwing is a thing of glorious beauty because

here is a man who clearly, clearly grew up loving

comic books. When he has an issue of Nightwing

and the best pizzeria in Bloodhaven is called

Marv and George's Pizza. When the fleet of rescue

ships from the Coast Guard are called the Jurgens.

or the Simone, or the Grayson, as in Devon, not

as in Dick. That's when you know this is a dude

who loves comics. I mean, in Gotham City, every

street now is named after a famous Batman creator.

What Tom Taylor's doing to Bloodhaven is shops,

offices, businesses, ships are named after Nightwing

creators. It's a thing of beauty. That's awesome.

It's great. It's fantastic. And Bruno Redondo's

art. Dude. Oh, this book is gorgeous. He does

things with night. Have you seen Nightwing's

newest screamer stick, which is he's back Grapnel,

which looks like a trapeze. Mm hmm. Of course,

degraded to circus brat. Yep. As for these artists

and. he does like the you know like an ikea manual

when you get the modular furniture and they show

you the step -by -step guides how to build the

furniture yep whatever night ring uses his screamer

stick has to say i don't know to cut a hole out

of glass it turns into like an ikea manual and

you see him do the step -by -step the screamer

stick sticks to the glass the other half cuts

the circle around the middle part it's just gorgeous

Immortal Hulk, which is killing me that that

run is ending. That is a true horror comic. A

return to Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, Jack Kirby's

original 60s Hulk. It's fan bloody -tastic. I've

just read one issue, but I'm hooked. The Nice

House on the Lake by James Tyne and the Fourth

and Alvaro Martinez. Damn. Pick that up if you

want to look at a comic book that looks like

nothing else on the shelves and read a horror

comic That will blow you away. I am gonna buy

every issue on the strength of the first one

That those are my big recommendations right now

Yeah, definitely. Oh Yeah, that Was it Nightwing

78? Yeah that they did that cover all that cover

and That cover with them up the... The old Adam

West stuff. That is my laptop wallpaper, brother.

That's how much I love that. It was you. I stole

it from you because you rotated it. That's right.

I'm like, wait a minute. Where did I get that?

All right. I got it from Steve. Alright, heroes,

heroines, anti -heroes, heroines, or villains,

what archetypes of characters are your go -to

reads? All of them. Mainly the heroes, because

I will admit, I read all kinds of comic books,

but superheroes are my favorites. But I like

a good hero, but I like a fallible hero. I don't

like the archetypal, square -jawed, nothing -can

-beat -me heroes. Case in point. I just reviewed

the 50 years of John Stewart, hardback deluxe

thing, which goes in line with all the 80 year

ones. And obviously the massive difference between

this book and the others is that this is a guy

who was created in the 70s. So there is no golden

age, no silver age, no quirky, funny, giant typewriter,

giant animal, quirky wizard, animal that appears

out of nowhere type stuff. This starts dark,

gets darker. And this is a man with issues. This

is a man who starts with a chip on his shoulder.

This is a man who's been the brunt of a systemically

racist society. And it doesn't dwell on that.

It doesn't beat you on the head with it. But

this is a man who overcomes, who fails, who falls,

who rises. And the John Stewart you see at the

end of that book is not the man you meet at the

beginning of that book. and that's the type of

hero I like. I like Batman because every so often

he gets his ass handed to him. He gets back to

within inch of his life, but he does not give

up. Daredevil, the fuck is blind, do you? Come

on. Moon Knight, or Mark Spector, or Steven Grant,

or whichever other personality is dominant that

day. That's the type of guy I love. So give me

a hero, but give me a hero who's flawed. Give

me a hero who deserves the name. And of course,

there is no hero without a great villain. Give

me a hero with enemies that are worth fighting.

Give me your Wilson Fisks. Give me your jokes.

That's what I love. And I agree for the most

part. For me, I need a Joker story or a Fisk

story that I haven't seen before, or that I can't

see coming. As good as Court of Owls is, I was

completely let down at the end of Death of the

Family. As much as I liked Snyder's stuff, his

Batman stuff, if you're gonna do Death in the

Family as Death of the Family, don't leave it...

The way I just... It's kinda like... And I'm

not trying to compare Scott Snyder to George

Lucas, but I'm exactly going to do that. It's

kinda like Star Wars. I hate the ending to Star

Wars. What, the first one? Yeah. The second one?

Yeah. I hate... Oh! Here you go! Here's your

medal! But, um, like, nothing. And then all of

a sudden, here comes this, this, um... You know

As as rent as as Dante would put it, you know

Empire such a down film, you know That's that's

that's all life is as much a down endings. All

Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets Yeah, no Empire

is a great film, but I have never like I love

Star Wars I love Star Wars the the original Star

Wars movie or for people that need clarification

on new hope for people that don't, you know,

are too young to remember what it was actually

called. Like, I love that film, except the ending.

Here you go, here's your medal. Like, that's

it? Really? We save the entire galaxy and we

get... chintzy medals? Really? So yeah. What'd

you say? How old were you when you saw Star Wars

for the first time? When I saw it for the first

time, I came out in 77. I wasn't even born yet.

It was probably 10 years later when I was 7 years

old. I probably saw it in 87, 88 when I was 7

or 8 years old. And even as a kid, I felt, I'm

like, wait, that's it? There's not more? Yeah.

I saw it at 7 on the big screen on first release.

And back then, there was never going to be an

Empire Strikes Back. It was one film, one and

done. And you see the heroes get a reward because

you don't often see that. True. And when that

happens, they win the day and actually get recognised

for it. What actually got me about that ending

was Chewbacca not getting a medal. Yeah, he was

robbed. That's what got me about that ending.

But I didn't know what a sequel was at that age.

Of course there was the Godfather and stuff but

I was way too young for those. I just thought

I saw something that changed my life. I saw a

big ship that took eight years to fly over my

head. I saw a gigantic dude in a cape with a

laser sword. I saw a dogfight in space and aged

eight in the 70s. That was life -changing. Yeah,

and I'm not saying that movie isn't I'm not saying

that movie isn't life -changing. I'm saying that

that ending just feels like Like you look at

okay. So again Maybe I'll have to Google this

and see if I can find it. But basically Let's

say let's go to 1989 in 1989. You can walk into

any store any Toys R Us Circuit City, Best Buy,

whatever store you want to say that sold VHS

tapes. Or even the rentals. But basically, the

original VHS tape covers the original art for

the Star Wars Empire and Jedi. Those were amazing,

amazing pieces. But at the same time, it's VHS.

And don't get me wrong, that's what we all grew

up on. Some of us grew up on Betamax. but it's

one of those things where you put the tape in

you watch the whole movie because you get lost

in the movie you forget that there are two other

movies sitting on your shelf that you can then

put in kind of thing so for me when i say that

the ending was kind of flat it was like oh okay

well huh and i don't think i had the empire tape

yet at that point when i saw it sorry go ahead

Oh no, I see your point now, because obviously

you knew there were sequels and you had them.

So you would have that response. That makes perfect

sense to me. Yeah, yeah. To me it was just the

end of one film and then it would never be another

one. So I get it now. Yeah, I see where you're

coming from. Yeah, because if you look at the

end of Empire going into Jedi, that's a direct,

it's more of a direct story point. Same. Absolutely.

I don't think you do, but do you have a my parents

got rid of my comics story? I know you've said

that you've sold some over the years, but had

your parents ever done anything to your comics?

My parents got rid of all my toys, including

my original four inch Star Wars toys, which are

now worth an absolute goddamn fortune. But no,

I'm the one who sold the comics when I got married.

And no, it was me. I'm to blame. Damn you, Steve.

How could you? What is one item from a comic

book you'd love to have in the real world, like

the Green Lantern Ring or something like that?

The goddamn Batcave. Well, everybody wants a

Batcave, but not everyone can have a Batcave,

Steve. OK. In that case, it would have to be...

It appears in comics, but it didn't originally

appear in comics. Does that count? If it's appeared

in a comic but wasn't actually created for comics?

Yeah, no. It's whatever you see in a comic book.

If you see that mug that says, hey, Nightwing

is better than Batman, you can have that mug

out of that comic book. OK, in that case, the

TARDIS. That would be my go -to. And I'd go back

and make sure the BBC didn't erase a hundred

issues of Doctor Who, and I'd pick up Detective

Comics 27 in mint condition. For me, it would

be the DeLorean, because the DeLorean is superior

to the police box. The DeLorean doesn't have

a swimming pool or a library. It doesn't need

one. It's a cool car. Hey, I need to be by the

pool reading my detective comics 27, dude Come

on, and I have a show to put it when I finish

reading it you get it. Where do you get it ruined?

Okay, so let's say DC Marvel vault any any comic

company gives you the keys to the kingdom and

you can create Any comic storyline that you would

want to create, what would you create with it?

I would, A, have death, as in the death, as in

the cute gothic death. Kick Thanos in the balls.

Before he can snap his fingers. tell the black

racer now son you're misbehaving you're going

to bed without any supper and um i would have

literally i would love to cross over because

it's it's a match made in heaven and now that

we know that it's coming back i would love to

write a combined the dreaming fables book interesting

that's what i would like to do because they're

two of the greatest works of fiction that celebrate

fiction in all its forms. I'd like to have Morpheus

meet the characters from Fables. That would be

my comment. That would be cool. Final question.

What is the one piece of advice you would give

the comics fandom? Cheer the fuck up. Stop. A.

Making your opinion the only one that counts

because it is just an opinion if I like something

I love it I'll tell people about it, but I will

not say that my opinion is the only one that

matters So if you don't like something, you don't

want to read it. Don't read it. Don't trash it

Don't insult the creative teams. Don't knock

it down and and be a complete bitch about it

In public forums if I don't like something I'll

turn it the fuck off I won't go and complain

and write about it and raise petitions and try

to get it erased from existence. I'll just stop

watching it. The Star Wars fandom and comics

fandom, oh my god, sometimes it makes me sad

to be a fan. I would say love what you love,

don't apologize about it, but don't knock what

other people love because hey, if it wasn't any

good, people wouldn't be paying money for it

and it wouldn't be being made. Somebody likes

that shit. Yeah, and the thing of it is that

not everyone can like or not everyone reads or

watches or listens to the same thing. I'm so

glad you're here because I can make this reference

without hearing anyone except the audience groan.

Just because everybody except for me in the United

States and Canada hates Nickelback doesn't mean

the rest of the world hates Nickelback. That's

right. I want to be a star. I really do. I want

to go to the Playboy Mansion and see all the

Playboy bunnies with the bleach blonde hair.

Absolutely. I'm with you. I was flabbergasted

at the Sea Shanty version of that. I'm like,

wait a minute, when is Spongebob going to pop

up next to Nickelback? Because seriously, every

time I listen to the Rockstar Sea Shanty version,

I'm like, where's Patrick? Juneau, where's a

C6 Steve collaboration now? Do what? C6 Steve.

Have you ever heard of C6 Steve? Uh -uh. Oh my

god, he is awesome. If you've got Spotify or

Apple, get some of his music because he, oh man,

legend, awesome. A folky, rocky legend. Looks

like Santa Claus on drugs. One of the most amazing

musical talents in the history of the world.

C6 Steve, yeah. I want him to work with Nickelback.

Wow, that would be cool. Alright, where can the

people find you online, sir? Oh dear lord. The

easiest way. Talk to me, because I love talking

comics, I love talking fandom, I love talking

geek stuff, is to tweet me at lstevo, E -L underscore

S -T -E -E -V -O. Podcasts, as you said, DC Comics

News, Harley Quinn, Mad Love the podcast, my

own show, Superheroes for Dummies, where people

tell us who they want us to talk about, people

send us their question, and we answer them on

the show. Um, I am the knight the weekly podcast

examining batman the animated series episode

by episode week by week But for my writing it's

easier just to google search Steve j ray The

first five pages of the search will take you

through all my writing across all my websites

or google search fantastic universes It's funny

your your cohort every time I have her on with

her husband When I ask her first cuz cuz ed has

like ed has instagram and twitter and and youtube

and whatever but she like you has like Everything

every single thing in the world So when she says

it's just easier to google me. I reply to her

and say I say to the audience She said google

folks not ogle That's right I love those two

so much. Two of the finest people you will ever

meet. Yeah, they are awesome. Alright folks,

that's gonna do it for us here inside the pullback.

You can find me on Twitter at TF2 and Mike. You

can check out all of the other stuff in the outro.

Coming up next here in June is episode 415 and

416 where my buddy Jesse Raz joins me to talk

about Shattered grid easily the best Power Rangers

story ever and beyond the grid which was kind

of a letdown What'd you say it's morphin time

yes, it is morphin time and then at the end of

the month Steve Megatron and I will be talking

about Transformers Beast Wars numbers four and

five from IDW publishing. So that's what's coming

up here inside the pull bag. Make your great

escape into comics and we will catch you next

time. To believe that that was a bodyguard in

a suit that conveniently appeared despite the

fact that I know that it's confusing. It is one

thing to question the official story and another

thing entirely to make wild accusations or insinuate

that I'm a superhero. I never said you're a superhero.

Didn't. Well, good, because that would be outlandish

and fantastic. I'm just not the hero type, clearly,

with this laundry list of character defects,

all the mistakes I've made, largely public. Truth

is... I am Iron Man. You've just heard the latest

episode of The Pull Bag, the GCRN's first comic

review and discussion podcast. There are several

ways to get in touch with us and leave feedback

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So until next time, make your great escape into

comics and unleash the geek in you. Coming here

was the mistake of your life. See, the closer

I am to someone, the stronger I get. I'll be

able to go into your brain, even if you're wide

awake. My brain's not a nice place to be. What's

this stupid song going through your mind? It's

what's keeping you out, Johnny.