Batman & Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III Review

Hi, this is Kevin Conroy and you're listening

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here at the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Did

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So without further ado, it's time to talk about

the comics. We're reading right now here inside

the pullback Hello and welcome to the pullback.

This is episode for 13. That's right folks 113

episodes of this podcast I'm of course TF2 and

Mike joining me once again is mr. Joe Reed. Hello,

sir. How the hell hello It's still the pandemic.

It's like the day that never ends. Do I even

need to put pants on anymore? You know. I guess

I do want to go get comics, though. Yeah, when

you go get comics, you have to. When you're podcasting,

probably not. Yeah, it is June, 2021. And as

I've said, since the pandemic started, I don't

think the pandemic is going to end anytime soon.

Even though most people will think, oh, we have

the vaccine now. That means we can, no, stay

home. Mask up, stay home. Mask up lawyer. And

we are here to continue our TMNT coverage here

inside the pull bag. But this time around, it's

not just. TMNT coverage, it's also Batman coverage

because we are concluding the DC Comics IDW Publishing

crossover trilogy series, Batman Teenage Mutant

Ninja Turtles 3. That's right, this was written

by James Tinian IV, art by Freddie E. Williams

II with Kevin Eastman as well. Yes, I would assume.

Jeremy Caldwell on colors, Tom Napolitano is

the letterer, Freddie Williams the second, and

Jeremy Caldwell do the collection cover arts,

and Batman obviously created by Bob Kane, and

Bill Finger. Something I said in one of our more

recent episodes, this might be a month or so,

a couple months ago. Don't understand why it

like I love that Billfinger is finally getting

credit after all this time like he should have

been this whole time I do not like and I refuse

to say with Notice I said Batman created by Bob

Kane and Billfinger in the comics. It says Bob

Kane with Billfinger I hate that it needs to

be Bob Kane lawyer negotiated something. Yeah

probably most likely, uh, uh, fingers daughter,

you know, bill fingers daughter or something

like that. But the thing of it is, is I will

always say Bob Kane and bill finger. It's just

like, you know, Jerry Siegel and, and, and Joe

Schuster is, you know, Siegel and Schuster. It's

not, you know, whatever. Yeah. And we'll never

know the real, real history to that, but I've

seen enough documentaries that make me kind of

think like, is it bill finger? with a little

bit of help from Bob Kane. It just kind of feels

like that. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think

Bill had all the big ideas and Bob just maybe,

I don't know. I don't know that whole history.

So anyway, we are here to talk about Batman TMNT

3 from IDW and DC Comics. And holy crap, what

an ending. What a story to end this. Like when

we did episodes one and two of this series, I

was not sure where part two was going to go because

it was all Bain and everything else. And like,

I felt lost beginning this. I'm like, what, what

the hell is going on? Then I realized what was

going on. I'm like, Oh, what, what When I started

reading Part III, I've owned this comic since

it came out and I never read it. I glanced at

the covers and then it went onto my stack. When

I started reading it, in my memory, because it's

been a couple of months now since I read II,

I don't think this connects to II. I think II

ended on an interesting weird cliffhanger with

Batman. shredder falling into the goose or something,

but it was a happy ending. And then this one

is, it felt like it came out of left field for

me. And I don't know, but it was a very, very

good left field. I don't know. Can I already

say it's the beginning of the podcast? Can I

say that this is my favorite of the three? And

I think that you could read this one without

reading the other two. Sure, absolutely. You

can say that. You're not wrong. And here's the

thing, even though they say, even though Freddy

and I'm sure Kevin and Jeremy and everybody say

this is a trilogy, each one of these stories,

Batman, TMNT 1, 2, and 3, all do feel like they're

their own thing. I actually did go back to the

very end of Batman, TMNT 2, and it ends just

like... The first one did and just like this

one does where it's like, okay, we saved the

day You know, it's kind of like that that 80s,

you know murder she wrote Colombo kind of ending

where there's no cliffhanger each all three of

these no cliffhanger no nothing they're either

gonna party with Batman or party with the turtles

or Batman's gonna have pizza by himself or with

his family or whatever kind of thing. So yes,

I see these as Three individual stories at the

same time. I can also see them as a trilogy because

The fact that it's DC and IDW. It's DC creators

and IDW creators working on these and I Even

though I was confused at first in the beginning

of this by the end of it. I was like This is

awesome. Yep So many awesome moments But part

of the confusion is is that this is some new

multiverse and Batman has a splooch on his chest

Yeah, yeah that does kind of That first image

where he says we can't let the smile clan slip

through our fingers again It looks like a bird

shat on his chest It kind of does. And I looked

at the outfit with the bands of armor or fabric

around in the orange color on his belt. I read

this as, oh, this is just Freddie decided to

redesign the bat suit and we're getting something

that's a little different, which is fine. I don't

mind when they do different. But then we keep

flipping through and. Everything's different

and it was not like what it was in the end of

issue two In the end last trade. Yeah. No, not

at all. Oh, yeah. Yeah the second trade this

is but I so it took me way by surprise and and

you get this this shredder Joker combination

thing happening all of the characters are a Turtle

verse character and a Batman universe character

literally splooshed together like that 1990s

Amalgam or amalgam comics where the DC and the

Marvel people like they combine them just straight

out of that but way more awesome because Freddie

Williams designed it and it looks really cool.

Yeah, it is so cool. I will say one panel that

the The bat guano where the bird shit on his

chest really works is the one where he's flying

in to meet shredding Joker He's like you and

I'm like, oh cool. That's awesome because it

kind of accentuates it. That was very cool Yeah,

and all of the other villains are also amalgams

and We see a turtle in the shadows And, holy

crap, it's Raph. But he's Raph Robin. Yeah, he's

Raph Robin. And, hey, at least he ain't Damien.

That's all I gotta say. Or is he Raph Red Hood?

Maybe he's Raph Red Hood, but if he is Raph Robin,

at least he ain't Damien. Because, uh, yeah,

no. Yeah, I don't know about... Damien in the

bat comics I haven't read a lot of it but every

time I've read it is like you're exactly the

type of person that I wouldn't have patience

for And you're not cute. I have not actively

read Tomasi and Gleeson's that adventures of

Batman and Robin or Batman and Robin and whatever

the new 52 thing is or Whatever the current thing

is with Damien I've only ever read Bits and Pieces,

and every time I see Damian in the various things

I've read, he's this snooty, stuck -up League

of Assassins or League of Shadows or whatever

you want to call it, a racist clan. He's just

an annoying little shit, pretty much. And I love,

as they're meeting each other and fighting each

other, Babies, gobble those mean fat turtles

right up. Oh, the babies love me. Of course,

Mikey would have the hyenas, the dogs, whatever

you want to call them. Of course, you know. And

then Raph's like, they just smell the pepperoni

on you. Hey, pizza's always the path to peace.

Yeah, but there are... The little jokes like

that, the one -liners that we have not only just

come to expect, but come to like, are they going

to do that again? The tired kind of hooks felt

more fresh in this and more interesting. And

I think it's just because of the weird crossover

nature of them. So despite the fact that we always

get the fan service from each of the turtles

personalities, like you would expect, it does

kind of At least feel new to me and and because

of that It's less heavy -handed seeming than

it is in other books that we've read Yeah, and

the thing of it is is I feel that Mikey Raff

and Donnie get more of a spotlight not that I

don't not like that, but it just feels like Leo

has a few lines here and there but it's the other

three turtles and Batman you that get more of

the love. Maybe I'm wrong in saying that, but

it just feels that way. Yeah, I can't think of

a part that Leo played in this. There was the,

well, we'll get to that part, but I should like

to mention that Bebop and Rocksteady are here,

but it's Rocksteady Clayface and Bebop Croc,

and they're definitely kind of mushed together

like that. Yeah, they are. And I think Freddy

did an amazing job on the panel where Batman's

like, wait, Joker. I don't under that image of

the Joker where it's like a split face between

Shredder and actual Joker face. Oh, that's such

good art. And then of course Joker and of course

I can hear Mark Hamill in my head I'm no Joker

Batman. I'm deadly serious blow the ceiling And

then and and yeah, I can't read Harley Quinn

without hearing Oh gosh, what was her name? Yeah

I can't do it. Yes Yeah, so yeah So we Next it

goes to Jim Gordon dealing with other things

happening in this city, but he has an officer

Casey Jones Working with him looks like a straight

and aro cop Doing right not one of the Gotham

corrupt And we cut to Wayne Enterprises and Some

teenagers keep prank calling this pizza joint

around the corner, but mr. Fox keeps paying for

them Makes me drop them all down the trash chute

It's an interesting way for them to get pizza

without having to go to the street Bat cave turtle

cave is yeah, it's downtown. It's under the sewer.

And I'm looking at the spread here of the picture

of what's going on in the background. And I didn't

notice this in the first read through. But the

giant T -Rex is actually a giant triceratops.

The the giant penny is not a penny, but I think

that might be a Canadian loony or a toony. It's

got a hole in the middle of it, or maybe it's

a Japanese coin. It makes sense that it would

be a Japanese coin Yeah And the turtle van looking

thing is back there the turtle van Batmobile.

Oh, I see it. There's a bat on the head. So there's

little Easter eggs all over the panel tons of

Easter eggs. Yeah and I was not expecting where

this was gonna go. I had no clue and then all

of a sudden Classic Eastman and Laird raff show.

I'm like, wait a minute. What's he doing here?

And as soon as he showed up my mind goes to the

two times they've done something like this before

in the cartoons the the turtles forever where

they they broke into Turtles Prime universe and

the cranky angry adult turtles were messing around

with everybody and then When they did it again

in the 2012 Turtles series And as an old school

Turtles fan, this is how you win me over, is

by paying homage and referencing the original

black and white comic. And guest artist Eastman

is participating and he's drawing his turtles

into these panels. And this first turtle is very,

very Eastman -like with the black markings and

they're even replicating the duo shade, the black

and white. photographic paper that they use to

shade and do grayscales on those comics and as

As the the story goes on and we see more of this

Turtles Prime Raphael Show up. It looks more

and more like Eastman is Channeling what the

turtles looked like when he and Laird were working

on them together Eastman turtles are very hard

-edged and geometric, but he's rounding them

out. He's making them more squat and It's just

so neat to see that artwork. It looks so good

here. It really does. It really, really does.

And it's very well integrated. It doesn't feel

like it's pasted on top. They do have this white

outline that Eastman likes to do, but it doesn't

it doesn't feel weird. It blends into the background

of it. Like if you look at his at his leg. like

right above the knee you can kind of see the

white outline but it also blends into the background

of the Batcave that it works so so well yep we

cut to Krang and uh apparently this is Krang's

multiverse and he it's Krang in a in a in a bane

robotic body or something and we have Crysis

in a half shell oh boy so funny and clever to

see that i just love it um i've um they mentioned

a couple of time well i i wonder if that's anti

-monitor i don't know that maybe yes yes yes

yes anti -monitor yes that's probably what they're

what they're doing there and it's not vain it's

anti -monitor and they even mentioned anti -monitor

later so i remember that now Yeah, and thanks

to the magic of my cell phone. I'm I can see

that now, too I I don't know anything about the

character so I the only thing I know is what

I've read and what I've seen in crisis on the

CW because They did the crisis entrepreneurs

for the CW TV series So, yeah Raph Turtle, you

know, prime verse, Raph, all right, I need you

all to listen. No, I need you to listen. How's

anybody gonna listen to you with your bird shit

on your chest? I'm sorry, Freddy, it just looks

that way. So what they've done here with this

Turtle Cave, Batman and the Turtles and even

Alfred Splinter back here is... That not only

have they combined the characters and the bat

family with the turtles, but they've combined

their origins in this Crang multiverse that he's

created with the the anti -monitor armor he's

Literally combined them all and so you know Batman's

Batman's Alfred is splinter splinter saved him

after his parents were murdered and the turtles

were there and they We're locked into the sewer

and it's such a neat way to tie. It's such a

cool way to tie it all together and make it an

original slate because we know we've all seen

or at least half of us listening to this show

recording this show most of us have seen the

87 cartoon with the boy and the turtles and you

know he trips on a grate and the fishbowl goes

down the whatever so we know Although in this

they are, you know, incorporating TCRI and all

of that. And I don't know what it is and I get

it. It is TCRI. That's what it originally was.

But I'm just a huge mark for, you know, turtles

to secretly use. And I wish they would do a TGRI

at some point, but whatever. Yeah, I like the

way that they worked that in. It's a techno -cosmic

research industry. It's an UTROM company, which

is why it's C. So when it came to the movie and

they didn't have the UTROMs and they wanted to

just be based on Earth, techno -global, so T

-T -R -I. In my headcanon, and I probably talked

about this before with you, but in my headcanon,

Jordan Perry was an UTROM and always was an UTROM

and if he'd have taken his shirt off, there'd

be a brain there. And techno global was just

that was just the earth subsidiary of T CRI and

when we write we've had the third movie where

Krang showed up with his army We'd have found

out that T CRI is out there in space. That's

what I pretend That's my headcanon. Mm -hmm.

And Sadly, we never got that because you know,

they had to go back to feudal Japan We haven't

watched that movie together, have we? No, we

have not yet. We'll get around to it. I'm waiting

two years until the 30th anniversary of that

film. That's a good idea. Yeah, it gives us two

more years to put it off. Just do it ourselves.

You know what? There are certain things about

the third Turtles movie that I absolutely love

and there are other things where I'm just like...

don't know. Ohio wasabi. It's a frisbee you throw

it. Anyway what I absolutely love is someone

who has never read the original Eastman and Laird

stuff. Absolutely love the black and white cover

when splinter goes to tell the the the the tale

of We were the Teenage Mutant Ninja. I love that

black and white page Mm -hmm. It's so good. I've

seen that art Somewhere I think Eastman released

a print of that but it's it's the cover to number

one but drawn from a three -quarter perspective

and and and quite neat to see that done. And

it's done in a softer style than Eastman's usual.

It's just brilliant. It's like his take on it.

Yeah, absolutely. And it is so good. It just,

again, it fits into this universe because we

have everything in this universe from turtles

as robins and crangs as anti -monitors and shredders

as jokers and just everything. And I love how,

uh, I'm just going to say black and white, black

and white. Raph is like, here, Donnie put this

into one of your, one of them computer screen,

this do hickey into one of the big computer screens.

I don't think it works that way. Don't ask me.

You've always been the guy that does machines.

Of course they have to fit that into everything.

And that's, that's awesome because obviously

it is a thing for Donatello. Leo has a couple

of lines but this is more focused on black and

white turtles, all of the other turtles and Batman.

It's not really focused on Leo too much. Leo

the consummate martial artist going up against

Batman and so they had that kind of leadership

power struggle thing to bounce off of. Since

we've done that already, we get to just, you

know, Leo can go change out in the background.

It's not about leadership. This time it's about

family and other turtles have a role in that.

Yeah, absolutely. And man. I just feel like the

contrasts of the black and white with the colors,

the colors get so bright later. Oh, man. As we

go through this chapter here and we see anti

-monitor crying when he's going to tell the story

of the merging worlds and him creating his own

universe, I'm just like, ah, turn off the light

bulb, please. So bright. This is Kevin Conroy.

And I am the goddamn Batman. Okay, and see it

always it always helps I always learn something

new because either you see something or as I'm

flipping through it while we're recording you'll

go catch it Yeah, I go catch. Yes. He's got he's

got prime Batman strapped into that machine.

That's how we merged the worlds. Yeah, the prime

turtles are back there And and as we've seen

Raphael escaped, but he's also got prime Batman

and those two I got it Yep. That's where he came

from. See, I didn't realize that that Batman

was different. I didn't notice that the logo

had changed or that it wasn't just the black

or the white splash. Yeah, no, I knew immediately.

I wasn't really, really sure, but I figured because,

again, black and yellow and he's completely different

from the Batman, TMNT Batman. I can't believe

I missed that. I need to check my reading comprehension.

This coming from an educator, folks. I know,

right? Students how to use power tools. Well,

you still have to read the instructions on the

power tools. And if you don't read those right,

you could lose a finger. Sometimes. Oh, my golly.

I have a jacked up staple in this book. I didn't

see that before either. Boy. So yeah, crying

anti -monitor and They all have a world to get

back to and they all want to get back to their

worlds and Holy crap this Just Wow Man, this

is so cool We're free how did you that the old

Houdini trick pick a pick built into the callus

in my hand But you're wearing gloves. Details,

details. Turtles called him out on his reality

breaking. And they're going to break reality

back open from the inside. The panels where the

Prime Turtles and Prime Batman are escaping are

some of my favorite in the book. There's a very

tall panel with Leo up front, Krang, Android,

foot robot things in the foreground, and there's

splashes of color, but then the four turtles,

and Prime Batman in the middle. That's my favorite

panel of the entire series, I think, right here.

Yeah, where they're like, the prisoners have

escaped. Alert Krang at once. Yeah, that. You

want to talk about melding of designs you have

the main DC Universe Batman You have Krang foot

soldier robot looking things and you have the

prime Eastman layered turtles the colors the

lack of color and The way the lines are. Oh,

it's also so good my gosh my gosh I didn't I

mean I saw it but it's just it's so this they

did some they did some neat stuff Right here.

They did. Very much so. And then once you eventually,

you know, team them up with the other turtles

and Batman and everything else, holy crap. It

is a long battle and it is really, really cool.

There is a panel where they're trying to get

Donnie to... take this machine to activate it

to get transported to the amalgamated universe

so he can help break it apart. But Donnie's held

back and they football it to Raph and Raph activates

it because he's the only one who's able to and

he teleports to a full page kind of cityscape

and that particular image is a callback to the

first issue of the black and white Ninja Turtle

comics. That is a page that is very special to

Eastman as when the turtles finish their first

fight, strike hard and fade away into the night.

Into the night, the manhole cover is dropping

back into place and it's just a full page spread

of the city, of the street and the buildings

in the background and layered that, no, we don't

need this big break in the middle of it. We need

to use that space. We don't have a lot of space.

No, no, Pete, we need to have this in there.

And he fought for it. And that's one of the only

pages, I think, that Eastman did almost entirely

by himself for that book, because they were swapping

pages back and forth the whole time. So it's

kind of neat to see that he did a callback to

specifically the cover and then that page. Yeah,

that is so cool that is so so good as well With

a second time around antique store on the corner

of course I mean you always have that was I have

to have a second time around. I mean, come on.

How can you not? This is black and white raff

explaining to them what's going on that the worlds

are merged and you all are not really yourselves

and and All of that so and then we go back to

the smile clan so So interesting, but giant brain

crank as a hologram is a little much though Yikes

that's a large uterine I love how they're like,

what the hell is this joke anyway? I don't think

you want to know what that is. And one thing

that I always look for now because we've heard,

everyone knows, at least everyone in comics that

has been in comics for decades now knows how

Thomas and Martha died. and I always look for

ways that are different or ways that it's done

that aren't just like, oh, her pearls, oh no.

And what they did here was really cool. Yeah,

I don't know why I'm as struck by this as I am

because yeah, this origin's been done a billion

times. Both of these origins at this point have

been done a billion times, you know and and with

its minor variations But to see how eloquently

these the turtles and the Batman have been woven

together It's neat Yeah, and Casey Joe chill

I was not expecting Are you kidding me? I thought

yeah Isn't that Casey? I thought he just said

he was Joe Chill. I'm looking. He is, but I thought

that was Casey the Cop. No, no, because this

would have been years and years ago. I'm trying

to find Joe Chill. OK, well, I just want to make

sure. The pages that we're looking at now are

between issues two and three, so I'm going back

and forth. Oh, there he is. Yeah. Oh, the name's

Chill. Give me the keys. But I Swear that because

again, they're amalgam in the universe not that

Casey would ever do that but I Swear when I like

maybe I'm the one that's confused because when

I saw his face I was like, oh, okay. They're

gonna make Casey Jones Joe chill. That's a little

uh, well Looks like a cop hat, but this would

have been yeah, that's what I'm saying. And yes

Kid if they did. Yeah, that's turning out all

the time stream works there. But yeah, but these

two guys are loading mutagen Stealing it or something.

Yeah But the the Martha and Thomas oh my gosh,

wait, I Just got Bruce Wayne's dad's name Thomas

Thomas and Martha. They're of course coming out

of the mask of Zorro but little Bruce sees baby

turtles and they buy him a jar of baby turtles

and they cut through the alley to get back to

the car and that truck of carrying the mutagen

getting getting robbed they're they're panicking

they've gotten the car and they're driving quickly

out of the alley and then Thomas pushes little

Bruce out of the way the turtles break open and

fall down the sewer and the mutagen truck just

creams Thomas and Martha and so but I mean so

it's like they die but the turtles are there

and the mutagen is there and Splinter's there

because he goes down to find the turtles and

and it opens the door for Splinter to be the

father figure, like Alfred is the father figure.

It was just so beautifully woven together. I

was like, wow. And I said, I don't exactly know

why I'm so taken by this, because yes, it's obvious.

That story tells itself. It's so compatible.

Yeah, absolutely it is. And again, it's an interesting

way to tell the death of the Waynes without the

constant retelling of how it happened. This is

completely different and it's completely fresh

in my mind anyway. I don't know Batman like I

know the Turtles, but because Batman's been around

in all the movies and the comics and TV shows,

I feel like I know Batman as well. The Turtles

theme The the thing that goes through all of

the series is family Yep, and then we also have

the the Batman family Batman's a solo loner guy

but over the years he has his Robbins and his

Batgirl and Asriel and all and Alfred and all

of these and his now son like he builds the family

the support structure Around him and that is

a strength for Batman. Just like it's family

as a strength for the turtles. I don't think

that's I'm not confident that that is Batman's

overarching theme. There's something more important

to Batman, grief and vengeance. The main core

of the IDW turtles over in their universe is

family with Batman For the longest time it was

just vengeance for his parents death and justice

and the thing of You know, no one should you

know, it's like, you know, Kevin Conroy says

in a Better world part two, you know, I want

to make this a better Gotham or Metropolis or

whatever, I want to make it so no eight -year

-old ever has to see his parents get killed by

a punk with a gun kind of thing. But over time,

Batman, I firmly believe, has softened a little

bit to the point of letting others in and letting

himself be helped by Robins and Batgirls and

Nightwings, oh my. I think one of Batman's biggest

problems is even though he has let people in

by his nature, and by the way he's portrayed

in Justice League comics, I would suspect that

Batman already has a plan for when his family

fails. I almost don't see Batman as able or willing

to completely rely on his family. And maybe there

have been storytelling opportunities where that

has happened for him. But I think that feels

to me like it would be a core concept of Batman,

that Batman's already got a plan and he's self

-reliant. To the most part. Because he knows

how to kill the Justice League. He's already

got that worked out. No, no, no. Not kill, contain.

It's capture, not kill. Come on now. Come on.

It's it's a contingency plan. It's not a murder

plot. You're not gonna find Batman on forensic

files Exactly occupies and distracts mm -hmm

and I remember back in 2013 to I know it was

March of 2014 when we started the IDW verse and

You were you just told me just like wait just

wait for it because I was like Black and white

here black and white turtles. What is this 1984?

Come on and then we get to a color bands. I know

right we get to a point in this book where all

the turtles look like Robins and whatever else

or red hoods or whatever we get to a point now

where black and white RAF is like You know Leo

because Leo isn't the leader here Batman is but

Leo says it sounds like you have a plan You're

starting to remember who you really are and that's

great. But there are other people we need to

wake up Parts of this world. We're going to need

to set right But we'll start here with these

Colored headbands. Yeah, it's for the it's for

the Batman Turtles And I love Red Robin or Red

Hood Raph. Like, no, Leo's like, Raph. Dude,

seriously, no, I wear what I wear. I'm not changing

my mask because some black and white version

of me said so. Oh, and then this thing here where

black and white Raph, like, I know your shenanigans

myself is that you're afraid. Afraid? Come on,

you think you're fooling yourself. I'm you you're

not you're totally afraid right now and it's

okay yeah, it's so good that awareness of is

of the characters is important to me that and

it's the one redeeming thing from the CG Megan

Fox, yep Turtles movie at the end when Raph is

down and he's apologizing for being a jerk. Yeah,

that is so true So it's one of those moments

there Absolutely, I love it And They have to

go find somebody and they have to go find April.

Oh boy Meanwhile Batman heads to his old stomping

grounds And it's smaller than I remember. It's

still pretty big though. This is just crazy.

Like seeing old Wayne Manor like this. Oh wow.

So cool, but so creepy. Oh my gosh. I just I

wondered where I the last time I had seen a worn

down Wayne Manor and It's not about like I'm

gonna go rewatch. Oh, yes. Okay. Yep. It was

a Zack Snyder cut Justice League at the end of

that he goes back to Wayne Manor and I think

he's setting that up to be like the Justice League

headquarters Probably I knew I just seen a run

down Wayne Manor. Mm -hmm, because in the Nolan

verse Wayne Manor burns down and he's in that

modern thing by the lake which is kind of silly

and Well, it is Chicago. So, you know And April

is at Stockman. Oh, wow, very cool April is a

is an assistant head lab assistant or whatever

and And I love how she's like, oh, sorry a lab

assistant's work is never done I'll just be at

home with a pizza if I can get this stupid app

to work And then Miss O 'Neill the smile clan

shows up oh boy And of course we have Take them

down boys. I love black and white right I never

thought I would ever say that I would that I

would absolutely love black and white raff But

I really dig black and white raff in this it's

so good I wonder if they could revive the Prime

universe as a comic. I mean, we have volumes

one, two, and four, because three doesn't count,

and Blair's left four. I don't think he's coming

back to that anymore, but I would like to see

these turtles again. Not where they are in volume

four, but in their fighting prime. I think that

would be no pun intended But I am glad that Donnie

Just said April quick come with me. I'm glad

he didn't go for that standard line of April

come with me if you want to live So we're used

And as soon as Donnie touches her, she remembers

him because she didn't know. Yeah. Oh, wow. And

then flashing back to Wayne Manor, amalgamated,

Bruce finds Alfred. And that snaps Bruce back

to remembering. Yeah, that's the Bruce and I

swear I could see splinter in that Alfred even

though it's not but like Wow, and then yeah Bruce

remembers and we see that and we see the bat

and We got a real origin. Yeah Yeah, just oh

it's oh oh It's so bad so good, but it's so bad

We get Shredding Joker with Raph and a really

cool battle here. I love the design of that Shredding

Joker. That looks like it's existed for 30 years

and this is a new take on something that's ancient.

So cool. Yeah, absolutely it is. I love his line,

do you bleed black and white or just some shade

of gray? I wish I could learn. But a promise

is a promise. Krang, I have his location. Oh

hell. What did he just do to you? It doesn't

matter. Just listen. You won't win with Krang's

hooks in this guy. Zap. Oh boy. I just... Damn

it. And I love how this one kind of kind of ends

off with Like as we go through this with my name

is April and I think I used to know you all before

before whatever all of this started happening

And the fact that Raph says he was right, I was

wrong. If I were going to put things back together,

it's time we set ourselves right. The fact that

Raph admits he's wrong, holy crap. Mm -hmm. Is

that skeptical Leo back there? I don't know.

I think so. And we need to break it back open,

we fight, and we see a non -shredder version

of Orokuro Saki. Hey, there's this guy and he

totally stole half of your identity. Can you

go get him? Yeah. Yeah pretty much. Yeah and

Yeah, part three. Holy crap. Yeah, it's what

I kind of wonder in in that instance is where

okay, so maybe they aren't You know, okay, so

Alfred is over here at Wayne man or old man Alfred

with a beard and splinters down there So it's

not like they put the characters together, they're

just fulfilling different roles. I was wondering,

is Shredder and Joker combined? Who's Urokosaki

combined with right now? The fact that he's there

being himself. It feels to me like, no, no, no.

Urokosaki is so powerful, nobody dominates him.

He does not come into this situation mixed with

anybody. That would never happen. And I see that

as somebody who realizes what IDW did with the

shredder. I think a lot of people have the bumbling

idiot who loses all the time from the 89. Cartoon

written I don't know that this this is the shredder

That you know, but he gets in his way and and

he hasn't ever really lost, you know He just

he'll fight his way back from hell to be the

shredder again Yeah, no, absolutely and I think

the thing of it is is because anti -monitor Krang

was playing with the universes to create his

own Joker shredder is an amalgam of let's just

say 87 shredder and btas joker or even if it's

the prime joker from bc universe, but You're

right You're right this this this aroko saki

is the real Deal shredder whereas the joker shredder

is more The joker than shredder and it's krang

playing with these things to mix them all together.

Yeah to make his own desired universe Because

the reason why I know this is the IDW shredder,

it's the IDW shredder look. There is no other

look to this shredder other than IDW. And I love

that. That the design of the shredder has been

consistent since Dan Duncan's original 12 issues

the helmet the gauntlets everything has been

the same and throughout all of the artists like

the turtle even the turtles will change and where

their their knee pads are and what Straps they

have around their wrists, but the shredder is

consistent I Love I love what IDW has done and

and then yes DC messing around with it. Yeah

it is so good so i find that this i don't want

to say wraps up nicely but issue four and issue

five are a nice battle and then issue six just

feels like it wraps it up in a nice little bow

in issue four and five we have the joker and

krang trying to you know joker wants what he

wants and And, you know, Krang is like, well,

as long as you do what I want, you can have whatever

you want. And, you know, Joker's like, Krang,

you promised me this world and blah, blah, blah,

blah. And Krang's like, remember who you're talking

to, laughing man. I have the controls of the

entire reality at my fingertips or tentacles,

whichever you prefer. Would crank say fingertips

I don't think he would know I again, I think

it's just Writing to you know, we're not supposed

to ask that question. That's a different question.

No, I know So You know we get that and I think

throughout these two issues, there's a rapid

fire realization or going one by one by our heroes

to separate all the people that they can that

are core to who they are. And so we need to go

find Casey and get Casey doing the right things

with the mask and the sporting goods. And Batman

realizes one of the key things is they need to

break apart Joker Shredder here. And to do that,

Bruce suggests dumping him into a vat of Ace

Chemical. And so there's a group of them going

out to do that. Who else are they going after?

They go after... Yeah, Joker's the biggest one.

And then Jim obviously comes to his senses once

he sees the giant holographic Batman. And Batman,

because Batman has come to his senses, he actually

has the Dark Knight... Returns bat on his instead

of just you know a bunch of bat guano on his

chest. He has the actual symbol now Which is

cool And I love the panel with Batman and splinter

Yes for years. I wished I could have just take

it back just rid myself of the guilt of having

helped create a monster like him I think we've

seen in this world that the monster was always

inside. I suppose you're right. That full panel

of Splinter and Batman together. Oh, it's so

good. So, so good. I'm flipping around like a

madman because it's so fast -paced now. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, we have Joker Shredders showing

up. We have Alfred, we have all of these other

things going on. I love Joker. No, don't touch

me! And he falls into the acid. I don't know

that name. I don't want to remember. It's starting

to come back to you. I hear, I hear laughing.

Yes, go toward the laughter. Yes, go toward the

laughter. I love the Harley thing with Batman.

There's more to sit right here first. Harley,

do you remember who you are? I mean, that's a

big question. That's a loaded question. Yeah.

Speaking of Harley, my wife and I just watched

the Birds of Prey movie. I think it was Birds

of Prey. It was the second one with Margot Robbie.

Yep. Which was better than I had expected error.

It was like Suicide Squad two and a half for

one and a half or something. Yeah It would that

was all right But I hear that Harley Quinn saying

something like that too. Absolutely. Yeah Joker

we can take my hand. Yeah. Why did Bruce try

to stop him? I thought he went there to throw

him in the chemical I don't know. They kind of

reenact that origin of the Joker. Yeah. Bruce

feels bad for dropping him in. Well, she asks,

what about Mr. J? And then Joker, we can beat

this together. And Joker's like, oh, Betsy, I've

got all the memories of both lives running through

my head right now. It's enough to drive a man

crazy. I mean, me, a ninja warlord in cahoots

with an all -powerful cosmic being? That's rich.

But the more I think about it, a bit of chaos

sure is one hell of an opportunity. You didn't

really think I was going to help did you? And

holy crap we get to what's going on now and that

panel of Joker that first page of now with the

red and the purple at the bottom with Batman

and the turtles and the foot clan and all of

that and the machine oh my god that is such a

beautiful page. Mmm. So good. I love Mikey. Yeah,

man. Nunchucks versus robots isn't exactly a

winning combo. And Batman's like, take these,

Michelangelo. Taser rings. They're like Shuriken,

but they'll overload their electrical systems.

Oh, I told you how much I love you. Eat taserangs,

robo -jerks. Oh, so good. Oh, so good. And of

course, Batman is going to get to the Joker.

And Joker's like, robots and ninjas and giant

turtles, I've had dreams saner than this. And

Batman's trying to tell him that Krang is trying

to control all of this and Joker still isn't

listening. And Batman has always felt up to this

point that something was still missing. And then

Joker says, See, Bats, you, me, the whole family

and a crowbar. It's always a good time. Uh, uh,

uh, crowbar? Jason? That's how the whole family

aspect comes in, because he remembers Jason Todd,

Robin, and all of that, and Batman just bounces

and leaves them there. Batman bounces. Yeah,

Batman's like, bounce, I gotta go, I gotta go

take care of this. What the heck? Yeah, it's

IDW Shredder and Foot Clan and... and everything

versus all the turtles and april and splinter

and and anti -monitor krang and holy crap send

more soldiers kill them all um but yeah i mean

i love i love our raf oh i've got a plan that's

so dope he's just Rushing to get killed by robots

and he's I've got a plan. I got up my one -liners

my I Know I know my one liners are already great

And we get to Batman where he is activated the

signal and Bruce, why are you doing this? Why

would you run away? I wasn't running away, Alfred.

I was looking for help. Well, help will arrive.

Here's the thing that I will say about Leo in

this. And we got the black and white RAF and

our RAF. All right, you need to stay quiet. We're

getting you out of here. What? What are you doing

here? I didn't tell you to. I know fighting's

our thing, but maybe let's save it. This is really

bizarre. It's nice to meet you. Dude, whoa. How

can I tell which one is me? I gotta get some

name badges and quick. Because Mikey can't tell

the difference between them when they're black

and white. Thank you for helping us. How about

initials on your belt buckles, guys? I know,

right? You think it would work. And, you know,

thank you for helping us, of course, and the

two Leos bow to each other. I think that's the

biggest moment Batman TMNT Leo has had this entire

book. So they've ripped all of the characters

out of the Krang's big evil technodrome. trying

to merge the worlds and open the portal. So that,

I think that process has stopped, but now they

need to separate everything. And that's what

Batman's off to do to get more of that help that

he needs. And holy crap, the ultra technodrome,

that thing is immense. That thing is huge. Kind

of hope that shows up back in the IDW verse at

some point. Yeah, it's so funny because you had

mentioned I think you'd mentioned this either

on or off air that you hadn't read this when

at first you you got it But you never actually

read it until recently and I'm like, yeah, that's

why we're doing these podcasts folks because

I I've Bought all the IDW stuff. I just I haven't

read it because I'm wanting to save it for this

and You know we get to this This final moment

of Batman has never been alone and we see the

entire bat family show up Batgirl that woman

Robin Nightwing Alfred and It's one big fight

even the prime Batman is here as well because

he also got freed along with the prime turtles

Yeah, this totally feels It feels like a different

version of the Turtles Forever cartoon where

all the different versions of the Turtles came

together. There's so many multiverses and continuities

represented here. IDW vs. Prime Turtle vs. Batman

vs. Prime Batman. Krang's own unique thing because

Krang has proven to be... That was an interesting

take in this too that... Crang wants to dominate

the universe and when he somehow in this comic

discovered The prime turtle verse and that there

isn't a crank in the prime turtle verse unit

universe He figured oh, that's why I've never

been able to win because he can't kill the prime

turtles because he's not there So he creates

this world where he's there from the beginning

to be able to kill him. Yeah Like he's such a

dominant force and he's that way in the IDW comics

as well. He's just completely relentless. The

same thing with Shredder. They've managed to

turn those characters into just relentless things

that cross dimensions and multiverses to live

out their fate or their destiny or their intention.

Because Crang was always, he was the focus of

those other multiverse crossover events in the

2012 series and in Turtles Forever. He was always

the focal point. And it was always a big deal.

Uhtroms were in Prime Turtleverse, but not Krang.

Right. So, so neat. Yeah. And I love how the

Foot Clan is like, Joker, you twisted us, made

us act without honor, you must be destroyed.

Mr. J, I think that's our cue to get the hell

out of here. I think you're right, Poo. And,

you know. And there's no escaping the vengeance

of the foot it's official the universe has finally

gone insane And you are officially on your own

here because I had to go out and buy issues five

and six I drove around all day today to prepare

for this and I only got five Yeah, you could

carry on and I will do my best to remember You'll

remember you we just did this Yeah, so yeah.

So we have the Earths are finally moving out

of sync, separating from one another. We can

win this if we stick together. I've got your

back, Batman. Batman's got Batman's back. And

yeah, it's an all out fight for part six. With

everybody getting back to the way that they're

supposed to be and there's something I never

really mentioned We never really mentioned in

this how the turtle van and the Batmobile are

kind of the same damn thing and We mentioned

the Batcave earlier when it was more amalgam

of everything But usually in almost every Batman

book you see some sort of multi -generational

section of the Batcave with the Batmobiles, whether

it's 66, whether it's 89, whether it's 90, you

know, BTAS, whether it's the Tumblr, whatever

it is. And in this entire book, I think we've

only ever seen the Turtle Van Batmobile and holy

crap. We, you know, Casey's like, April, I'm

reading you loud and clear. Oh crap. Casey's

like, uh -oh. I'm in trouble. I Love seeing the

two Batman's work together. I love seeing the

black and white turtles work together and I love

how I Want to make sure I got the right turtle

because the black and whites are always weird

for me Mikey okay Yeah, it's both Mikey's. Hey,

I'm great at distractions dude. What so am I

and hey? We're whooping the bird boy's butt in

our robo breaking contest. So I think we can

lend a hand. Damian's like, this is not a game.

And even if it is, it's not fair that there are

two of you. Freaking crazy. Of course, whiny

Robin. Yeah, whiny Robin. And IDW Shredder and

Casey are like, you seeing this? Yeah, we got

to get the hell out of here kind of thing. We

see all the battle of everybody and they even

use bat spray, spray paint to, you know, now

you see us, now you don't. And it, like I said

earlier, it, you know, I was fighting for them,

for my family. Now let us, let's get us back

to yours. And we see that the planets are still

unaligning from each other. and Casey and April

get reunited and the Ultra Technodrome is gonna

get blown up. And I do love, I do love, I think

it's, yeah, it's black and white Mikey. All right,

dudes and dudettes, last one for the cheap seats

out there. Cowabunga! And they blow up the Technodrome.

Prime Universe Batman goes back to his place.

Krang is basically gonna do one last like, oh,

you may have destroyed it, but I can control

the power. I can taste my, no one wants to taste

your power. Who wants to eat brains besides zombies?

And then we have this one weird giant amalgamation

of everything. Batman, turtle, just everything

before it all splits, you know, splits back to

where it's supposed to be. And we see everyone

the way they're supposed to be. And Krang is

like, your multiverse will not hold. I'll kill

you. I'll kill you all. No, Krang. It's over.

Batman, click. Boom. Gone. Krang is destroyed.

That whole amalgamated thing was not what I expected

to see. I'm not sure where in space that was

occurring, but okay, it happened. Yeah, it was

really weird. I love the big explosion of the

Ultratechnodrome because I love the panel lines

on the side. So you have Donnie and Batgirl,

you have... Nightwing and Red Hood along with

Leo, you have Batman and Raph, you have Robin

and Mikey, you have Damien, I assume that's Jason

Todd and Mikey, you have Damien, you have April

and Casey, and you have Splinter. And we kind

of close with Batgirl being like, okay, everyone

needs to find solid footing, the universes are

about to separate. Oh man, this sucks, we have

to go already. Yeah, we didn't even get our real

memories back until it was all over. And now

that the multiverses have separated, we might

never see each other again. I suppose we all

have one great gift from Krang, then, a memory

of an entire lifetime spent together, learning

and growing with each other. Oh, Splinter, how

emotionally draining. The best thing for this,

though, is at the very end here, when you have

another panel with Batman and Splinter. Thank

you, Master Splinter. Thank you for everything.

And Splinter, before they fade away, goodbye,

my son. We will never forget you. And we end

in Batman's timeline. With you know him going

back to Alfred saying put in order for a big

stack of pizzas. We're staying in tonight Isn't

that how it ended every other time I Think so,

but normally it's the turtles and Batman together.

This is just the bat family. It's just Batgirl

Nightwing Robin Robin Red Hood, it's just the

bat family here on the ending because the turtles

go back to their universe because the worlds

are separate so the turtles probably have pizza

in their own universe but I do love how it does

say the end exclamation point and I do know I'll

have to edit that I do know that both Freddie

Williams, Jeremy Caldwell, and James Tinney in

the fourth have said that this is a trilogy,

they won't do another one of these. If they were

to ever do another Batman TMNT team up, I really

want it to be Batman TMNT 4. That's in time or

turtles in time or something where they basically

reenact the entire old turtles in time video

game But with that and use one of the levels.

Uh -huh. Yep. Yep, that would be so cool At the

back of the trade you get all the cut all the

variant covers and things like that You also

get the designs that Freddie Williams did For

the characters and for the amalgam characters

and things like that. So it's so so cool I love

this. At first, I was really wigged out about

it because I was like, what the hell is going

on? However, as I got into the story and was

reading, I was like, this is cool. This is something

unique, something that I don't think had ever

been done before or probably won't be done again.

Not like this anyway. And I really, really dug

it. I thought it was really fun. And this was

the I think I'm the whole generally crossovers

are a little cheesy you when those happen you

need to do this weird fan service thing back

and forth and You sometimes the characters don't

necessarily fit together and I Kind of got that

vibe from Batman TMNT 1 & 2 but it would it felt

like Yeah, they he they fit with Batman better

than I thought they were going to do but there

were those fair and service moments There were

the things that you could call out this one felt

oh Now I've forgotten the adjective that I used

earlier, but it just they wove it together elegantly

and And it didn't feel forced and it felt fresh

even though we're very familiar with everything

that was occurring in there So this is my favorite

crossover event ever and really well done. And

I didn't read it right away because I just wasn't

getting into the other crossovers, the other

turtle crossovers with Batman, either the animated

one or this one. But nope, this one was absolutely

stupendous. It was so good. I absolutely loved

it. I thought it was super fun. It's the single

-handed first time I have ever seen the classic

Eastman and Laird Turtles, where I didn't feel

like those aren't my turtles. Because again,

if anybody has been listening to the pullback

for the last eight years when we started this,

I remember way back when in episode one when

we did volume one of the IDW universe, I asked

you and and I said where I started I you know,

you started with the comics We obviously went

to the cartoon But for me, I started at the 87

cartoon in the 88 toys I'd never read the original

comics not that I don't want to now but the way

that Eastman and Freddie did these up with within

this book I'm like and like you said earlier

I would love for Eastman to do I'd like if you

had Tom Waltz writing it and you had Eastman

doing, you know The drawing and whatever for

for IDW I would love to see a new version of

the classic Eastman and Laird turtles. That would

be super cool. I Think it would be awesome. That

would be great. Yep. I there's the original comic

is Is a challenge And no no I did my first turtles

experience was one of the action figures and

I had no concept of what this little Michelangelo

decked out with with weapons was And and but

I the 87 cartoon Was real was was my intro to

it and I was a kid at the time and so it it hit

me right there But pretty quickly I discovered

the comics Either by finding one finding one

of the Archie series at the Piggly Wiggly magazine

rack because that was when you could still buy

comics at the grocery store and it was either

that or I found the the the first publishing's

color reprint of the original three issues in

a trade paperback I found it at a used bookstore

and I was young and my mom bought it for me and

I remember reading that going like But their

headbands are red. They're supposed to be colored.

And Splinter's a rat, not a human? This is wrong,

but it's kind of cool. And in reading the old

series, I probably read it the first time in

my 20s as I was picking up the back issues, building

my set. They are very bizarre and weird. And

they don't follow a traditional continuity. like

most conventional comics, especially in the middle

of that run, it's piecemeal. Eastman and Laird

were letting other writers and artists and publishers

take single issues while they were dealing with

the marketing. So there is a very abridged thing

that you can do to get the story that has kind

of come to be the core turtle story. But there

are probably 50 issues out of that one through

72 that you don't need to read because it would

just it would make no sense. Right. With anything.

But but boy, boy, is there still something there

in that prime turtle verse. And I think the fact

that people keep coming back to it and buying

black and white action figures and showing up

with them showing up in the crossover issue is

like people still want to see that. Mm hmm. Absolutely,

they do. Like I just said, I would love to see

a new version based on these designs that are

in Batman TMNT 3 that IDW could do. Just a whole

new story. It still have the same attitude of

it. Obviously, it's still the same designs, but

just new stories. All right, zero to five with

half points. What are you going to rate Batman

TMNT 3? Oh, I get one through five and half points.

Five and a half. Five and a half. No, no, no.

I don't get to change the system like that, do

I? No, you don't. Yeah. We'll do it. At first,

I was going to rate it a little lower, and then

I went through it, and then we went through it

beforehand so you could catch up to issues five

and six. And I'm like, yeah, this is a five,

essentially. And honestly, folks, because our

system has half points, our five is almost just

like saying a 10. Yeah, it's definitely a five.

I really dug it. I don't know if it's something

I'll go back and read constantly, but now that

I have read it, at some point I kind of want

to go back and read all three of them back to

back. I don't know if I could do that in one

sitting, but within a day or so I probably could.

I have no desire to go back and read one and

two. There was a hardcover at one of the stores

I went to today to try to find issues five and

six. They had a hardcover of of Batman and Turtles

3 and I had my hands on it and I'm like, you

know, I don't need I don't want to spend What

is this $25 to get? Yeah, just one issue that

I'm missing But after this like I'm gonna bag

and board these and I might just have to go back

and get that one Probably that's the best way

you're gonna be able to collect it at this point

Ladies and gentlemen, producer Mike here, interrupting

the end of this episode of The Pull Bag. I cut

out everything I said that was coming up in the

show because the schedule has changed. The Pull

Bag schedule has always been tentative. It is

constantly changing, even though I plan a year

in advance. For June and July, this is the current

plan. Episode 4, 13 .5 will be Static Shock Volume

1, supercharged. Episode 414 will be a creator

-owned submission that we received at Geekcast

Radio Network called Contraband. Episodes 415

and 416 will be Power Rangers Shattered Grid

and Beyond the Grid. And episode 417 at the end

of June will be Transformers Beast Wars number

four and five. In July? In July? Hopefully we

will have Transformers Ghostbusters Ghost of

Cybertron crossover trade discussed. Exit stage

left the Snagglepost Chronicles. Transformers

Beast Wars number 6. Ryan Drost's Stealth Hammer

which I supported the Kickstarter and got the

comic. And in episode 420 we will be doing Radiant

Black issues 5 and 6. So that's what's coming

up here inside the pull bag. Now back to our

regularly scheduled program. The end of this

episode. Where can the people find you online

sir? You can find me in my classroom because

I really don't get online anymore, but that's

a joke. Facebook .com slash geek stuff garage

sale. The pandemic put us off for a year as I

didn't want anybody to come to my toy show and

get sick. I suspect though that by the end of

the summer and curling around into May, October

time, not May. So at the end of the summer, curling

around the corner into September, we'll do another

Geek Stuff garage sale in Southwest Michigan.

So you can contact me there at the page. Send

me a message. I'd love to hear from you. And

I hope to see you at the show when we have one

again, when I won't try to accidentally kill

any of you with the virus. Well, I don't think

it's you that's killing people. I think it's

the people not wearing masks and not getting

shots and that kind of stuff that's killing people.

Hey, at least we got rid of the orange troglodyte,

so there is that. You're not afraid to get political

on your podcast and alienate your listenership?

What listenership? I didn't have any listenership.

People listen to this show? Really? I didn't

know that. It's only one comment. It's not like

it's going to... I mean, hell, I lost an entire

podcast host because somebody else said something

about the former... Orange troglodyte. Yeah,

it's so stupid. But anyway You can find the pull

bag on Facebook and Twitter and all that other

good stuff. I am at TFG and Mike on Twitter Send

all hate mail to me TFG and Mike at geecastradio

.com I don't think that's an actual email address

that you could use but I don't know I'm sure

Steve has something set up like that for me.

Who knows? I was about to ask where I could get

one of those but I don't think I want the hate

mail sent to me I don't know if it does or not.

I've never actively used it, but Anyway, yes,

it is the summertime. We are getting into a lot

of cool comics here inside the pull bag In July

we're gonna hit our one of our latest Create

our own comics one of our submissions So, we'll

be talking about that. And yeah, that's going

to do it for us here inside the Pull Bag. Make

your greatest given to comics and we will catch

you next time. Become a fan of us on Facebook,

facebook .com slash The Pull Bag. Send us an

email, feedback at geekcastradio .com, follow

us on Twitter at The Pull Bag and at Geekcast

Radio. So until next time, make your great escape

into comics and unleash the geek in you.