Batwing Volume 4: Welcome to the Family Review

Hi, this is Kevin Conroy, and you're listening

to the Geekcast Radio Network. You've just jumped

inside the pull bag. Join TFG1 Mike and the rest

of the comic reading crew here at the GCRN as

they make their great escape into comics. From

DC, Marvel, IDW, Boom Studios, Xenoscope and

more, we have everything you want to read right

here. Transformers comics? Yeah, we cover that.

He -Man? Yeah, sure. DC superheroes like Batman,

Batgirl, Nightwing and Batman Beyond? Yep, we

have those too. How about TMNT from IDW and I

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all that here. Plus, so much more. It's all inside

the pull bag here on the Geekcast Radio Network.

So without any further ado, it's time to talk

about the comics we are reading right now here

inside the pull bag. This is Kevin Conroy. And

I am... I'm the goddamn Batman. Hello and welcome

to The Pull Bag. This is episode 393. We are

seven episodes away from 400 episodes on this

podcast. I am one of your hosts, TFG and Mike,

and joining me this week in the brand new year

2021 is Edward and Kendra Hale. Hello. Hi. Hello.

Yes, we are here and we are diving back into

the new 52 from DC Comics to talk about Batwing

Most people might be scratching their heads and

saying But why? Well, here's the thing folks

now Kendra and Edward know of most of the one

of the writers Works of writing here. I knew

of him But I wanted this to be the first thing,

because this was the first time I'd ever heard

of Jimmy Palmiotti. So when he and Justin Gray

were put on this book way back when, back in,

I don't even remember when it was. But why are

we starting with volume four instead of starting

back at the beginning with volume one with the

Batman of Africa? Because Batwing is part of

Batman Incorporated and all that. Well, we're

starting at volume four because DC and other

comic publishers sometimes like to just do complete

changeovers in the middle of series. And this

is no exception. Actually, the original writer

that started this didn't even finish it. They

kept changing writers. I think volume one has

whomever the original writer was. Volume two

has a different writer. Volume three has a different

writer. So we're starting here with volume four.

They also like to change up characters. So when

I approached you guys with this and they're like,

do we have to read all the I'm like, nope It's

a pretty much a fresh start. There's a little

bit of transition in the beginning But other

than that, you know fresh start fresh everything

else and I love the Fox family so I wanted to

see what Luke and and Lucius and and all of them

are are up to Oh boy, so yes volume four of batwing

welcome to the family As I said earlier, the

creative on this is Jimmy Pamiati and Justin

Graham writing, Eduardo Pensica is the penciler,

Julio Ferreira is the inker, and Jason Wright

along with Hi -Fi and Paul Mounts are the colorists

for the creative. When you guys read this, what

was your first thought, Edward? Did you feel

out of place in the beginning of it because it

doesn't... Start with the Fox family. It starts

with David who is the original Batwing who is

the Batman of Africa? Yes, I was kind of out

of sorts I mean I knew who the first batwing

was because I had picked up the Batman incorporated

stuff right before the new 52 started started

and I mean I just I was kind of whatever about

it, you know, I neither liked nor disliked it,

but thinking that, you know, reading this from

where I, you know, where I started reading it

at, I was a little lost, you know, like I needed

to go back and get a refresher course. See, I

think they did a good job with this first page

here where, you know, you have Batman and you

have that wing explaining what's, um, Why he

needs to hang it up and then we go into the flashback.

What did you think Kendra? I Don't think I'm

gonna mention out this guy's name but um David's

is in bay That sounds right to me from what I

can read in the book Right. I mean for some I

mean this was my first interaction with this

type of character It's it's not a book that I

normally would have picked up Because it doesn't

it's not something that would have drawn me as

a reader it But I do like how they transitioned

it. I mean they did him justice at least it wasn't

just Any of the the millions of tropes that they

could have done to him They gave him at least

the respect of being like, you know what? Yes,

I want justice and I still stand for what this

batsuit means But I want to do this my own way

not under your tutelage. So I like that Yeah,

that was really really fun and we basically spend

this whole issue this whole first issue part

of the trade here Going through David's last

adventure as batwing and he and Batman You know

parting on good terms and then we get back to

Gotham and we get to the Batcave and I'm like

Yes, Alfred anytime Alfred shows up. It's always

good I agree with that statement. Obviously,

he's never not going to show up unless somebody

does something stupid and kills him off, which

why any right to kill off Alfred is beyond me.

But I love this. I love the explanation of how

this, the new Batwing, like this is a new Batwing

suit. This is not David's suit. This is completely

new, completely different. And The guy that,

and I should have said at the beginning of this,

folks, if you haven't read this yet, there are

probably going to be spoilers in this podcast,

because that's what we do here inside the pull

bag. The original guy Bruce wanted for Batwing

was Lucius Fox's son, Luke Fox. So cool. That's

right. Let's be for zero real quick. I don't

mean to like cut you off or anything, but I want

to say that everybody who saw this suit, the

first time that you get the full reveal page

of the new suit and him in it and everything

like that. Yeah. First thing in everybody's mind

was, OK, so this is a Batman Beyond prototype

suit. Of course. Where's Terry? Right. Where's

McGinnis at? Damn it. Yeah, of course. And absolutely.

It's just, I love the way they lay this out.

I love the way the entire, cause I'm looking

at it in trade. I love how it's laid out where

each part of the story is like Batwing version

2 .0, welcome to the family. And you know, we

open up with that and he's going against the

Marabutu and he's still doing stuff in Africa.

So that's nice that they still have that going

on. You know, and the whole. I just, I love everything

about how the layouts are done in this comic

and how the story beats. And again, if you use

Comixology and you use their patented guided

view thing, just the way that it does the storyboard

paneling, I just love it so much. And like the

one panel where it's like, what did I get myself

into? If you do it in guided view on comixology

.com, It's like the full screen of my monitor

is Just that line with the black background and

the white text and and then it cuts to other

parts of the page And I just love the way they

do that We read it through the DC app yeah, yeah,

and I think DC has the same the The DCF is similar

along those lines, yeah. And I will say, probably

going forward, a lot of the DC coverage here

inside the pullback will be done through the

DC Universe app because a buddy of mine, good

friend and listener, Scanner51, gave me access

to it, so shh, don't tell anybody, oh my god.

Houston, we have a problem. He'll edit something

in there. Something cool about Batwing. Yes.

That's one thing. I wish we... I haven't kept

up with the DC animated movies things, but after

reading this volume and the volume we'll talk

about next week, I need a Batwing animated movie

at this point after reading these books. I'd

be there for it. Yeah, that would be so cool.

But I wouldn't not watch it. um so luke has a

whole different approach to being batwing obviously

he's a whole different person different character

and what really got to me with the whole fox

family stuff is that basically his father wants

him to fall in his foot follow in his footsteps

which most fathers want their sons to do but

luke All he's asking for is a year off. He's

excelled at everything else that they've put

in front of him. He graduated college early.

He's done all this. So he's basically, he's not

necessarily the full genius that his dad is,

but he's right up there. I mean, you could say

that about any of the Fox children. I mean, each

and every one of them. Oh, I know. Yeah. Sincuously

smart. Yeah, absolutely. Fox jeans, man. Well,

his wife's smart, too. Yeah, absolutely. So he

gets to Luke gets to be batwing and he basically

has to learn as he goes Obviously cuz Batman

had did not spend years training him After all,

he's not Robin Yeah, I was gonna say if you notice

kind of a reoccurring trend with Batman and his

Family or subordinates or whatever you want to

call them if they're not a Robin Uh -huh. They

kind of get thrown in the deep end of the pool

like immediately. Oh, yeah oh you're gonna wear

this costume oh shit the joker just took over

the entire city let's go or you know bane just

killed everybody let's go you know that's the

one thing i like about this starting where we're

starting here and finishing off this series because

sadly Volumes four and five were the last of

batwing series For the new 52 and I don't know

because I have not kept up with rebirth and whatever

is coming I don't even work futures something.

I don't even know what it's the new thing is

whatever it's called I don't even know if batwing

has been in anything else past this Okay I'll

say this though like kind of jumping ahead to

next week's episode Uh, the last issue, which

is part of the future state crossover or no futures

and crossovers. Yeah. Confuse the shit out of

me. Cause I thought I was like, damn, this is

just now ending and future state just started

last week. Let's go. Then I was like, Oh wait,

this was that crossover a few years back. Nevermind.

Now the idiot. Anyway, no, no, no. Yeah, the

ending to this series is just so heart -wrenching.

But in the middle of it here, we have... And

this is what I like. You take Luke and you put

him in this batwing thing. You give him kind

of the love interest with Xena or Xenia or whatever.

I don't know. She's on the top of something.

And you give him this whole family life and the

girlfriend thing and whatever else. But you don't

give him... A classic Batman villain. I like

that. I like that. He doesn't have like the villains

that he faces affect him and his family somehow

but without it being Like you said earlier at

about you know, oh all the tropes they can pull

out like oh, it's batwing versus the Joker It's

you know, this that the other thing they give

him his own villains Even though they still kind

of tie back into the whole gun running weapons

thing from Africa right, I mean they They give

him some really cool toys that feature the mainstay

villains of Batman and their technology or, you

know, their intelligence, but they don't ever,

like, have them showcased. It's usually just

his villains and then Batman's villains get a,

like, an asterisk or a mention. It's gonna be

Batman's because he's kicking their ass. I got,

like, 12 books. They're all busy. Don't worry

about it. I think this is the moment I could

be wrong because it's been a while since I've

read a Batman book after all this is the first

new episode of twenty twenty one and I only had

like a handful of episodes last year but it's

one of those things where. This is the first

Batman title kind of thing where I've seen. Almost

a lot more of Bruce than I have of Batman and

I really dig it I love what the artists did with

these characters all of the characters not just

the Fox family not just the villains But I mean

Bruce looks slick as hell in this Yeah, he looks

young as hell, too True very true. He's like

fresh out of 25, you know couple shots walking

there in his suit and tie and you're just like

A mage regression. Uh -huh. Is that Tommy Elliot?

Come on No, please Yeah We get one shot of the

Batmobile in this trade absolutely love it always

love when the Batmobile shows up I Love how Luke

because Luke is from the genius family that he

is I love how he figures out all of the computer

stuff and everything else. I've always loved

that about him and the panels where it's like,

Hey, here's all Batman secrets and the technology

and the this and the that. And he, because Batman,

even though Bruce made the suit for him, it's

still because like, like we already said, he

just made the suit for him and okay, go kick

ass and go, go do, you know, the truth, justice

and whatever way. kind of thing Luke has to constantly

upgrade it and Change it to fit him as he's do

it like he changes certain parts of the tech

and things like that. So I love seeing You know

him doing that. I thought that was really cool

It's really funny though that you bring up Marvel

because that's something that kept coming up

to me between this one and the one we'll discuss

next week Honestly, if I were to put, you know,

a comparison to him, everything that kept popping

up for me was, oh my gosh, I feel like I'm reading

Spider -Man. Yeah, you actually said that too.

Sid Meeks too, while we're reading it. Because

it really does. Like, when you're seeing what

Luke Fox goes through, especially when it comes

with the duality of him being a hero versus being,

you know, the son of Lucius Fox, it... It is.

It's Peter Parker. It's him trying to figure

out how to balance, you know, what side do I

show my family? How much do I trust my family

with versus, you know, what do I keep hidden

behind the mask? And he's having to deal with

that all throughout these volumes. And that's

something that I love. I do love getting to see

those interactions where you see him stumbling

to, you know, try and figure out what he's going

to use as an excuse for his mom or or his dad

or for Zena or you know in in the case specifically

for this one like where he'll use an excuse given

to him as a way to you know paint a picture for

his family of what's going on and why he chooses

to do things the way he does yeah it's very very

interesting because it gives you an insight to

the Fox family and how close they are and how

someone could still be this secretive within

that type of a household, especially for someone

as smart as Lucius Fox. Exactly. Yeah, I liked

seeing that aspect when I was reading it too,

because I mean, I'm a devout Batman fan. I mean,

I've read almost everything I can get my grubby

little mitts on for Batman. And, you know, You

never get that look behind the curtain at Lucius

Fox's life. I mean, and if you do, it's some

sort of cataclysmic event going on in all the

Batman books all at once. Right. Yeah. But you

never get to see him be a family man, sit out

and have some breakfast with his wife or something

like that. But here, you actually, that curtain's

pulled back and you're like, oh, OK, one of my

favorite supporting characters in his entire

family. That's fucking cool. Let's do this. Yeah.

No, it's just our ass like Peter Parker. Like,

and I get, see, there's so many things where

I'm like, oh, okay, so that man doesn't like

sarcasm. It does. Yeah, it's sarcasm. I mean,

they even throw in boxing. I mean, it's really

hard not to make a comparison. So I think that

who, I think Jimmy may have been channeling his

inner Peter Parker, or maybe that's who he saw

this as while he was writing him where he's like,

you know. Yeah, who do I compare this to when

I step into the shoes to write this character?

What would he feel like being? That way and being

thrust into this world where he has to hide it

from his dad Yeah from the rest of his family

and it's it's really hard not to cross over in

the spider -man since he's bad deal with that

too That'll come up next week to Because next

week is by far. I actually tweeted at Jimmy.

I said, I don't know if this was you or Justin,

but, uh, I love this. And it's a thing I'll reveal

in next week's episode. And he's like, if it

was witty, it was probably Justin. Cause that's

the thing. There are two writers on this. Now

I've up until I heard this, I had never heard

of Justin Gray and I I'm sorry, Justin. And I

only heard about Jimmy in passing. Like I had

never read anything else he has done. I'm. gonna

obviously rectify that in this coming year, but

it's one of those things where, because I've

never really read either one of their works,

I don't, like, you read, let's say, okay, you

read New 52 Nightwing with Kyle Higgins, and

you read Nightwing Rebirth with Dan Jergens.

You can easily tell the difference. In the way

like you can tell who's writing it by reading

it and then what lines they choose to bring up

or what quips they choose to use Here I could

not tell because I had never really read either

one of these guys and I think that's cool because

Actually, all three of us are coming to this

fresh. None of us have read this before I But

not all of us are virgins to some of the people

on this book. Well true It's Hamilton. We keep

eating Of course Yeah He's been in a lot of the

stuff that I've been having to do lately Just

to go get her colorist. I mean my gosh, he's

masterful. Yeah The colors in this just pop off.

There's the scene in in one of the issues where

Batwing is is trying to catch up with Batman

and He hijacks a ride with a redhead and a red

convertible and I'm like wow those colors really

pop Just the whole all of those panels pops so

well, and then he just lands on the bat boat

Well, and there's something that I've noticed

throughout his work as well since we're talking

about the colors the He catches your attention.

It's hard not to with just his color work alone.

You're like, Ooh, this is pretty. Yeah. And it's

so, cause in part of this, you have Batman, like

I said, you have Batman and Batwing teaming up

to get aboard this ship and things like that.

And like the part where they're scaling the ship

and I'm like, those are two very different Batman.

Like, I don't know how, like, yes, I get it.

It's a black suit with a blue bat. And his whole

face is covered, but I like how some people point

out, I think it's in next week's episode, that,

oh, well, Batman's face is usually uncovered,

so this apparently is not Batman. That's what

I love is that they write it to the point where

the criminals actually figure out, oh, right,

this isn't. Batman, but he's still a badass Right

and even and more to that point. There's a scene

where he's saving a family and At first they're

like, oh, it's Batman. Yay, Batman's here and

then as he's consistently Fighting all these

villains are like waving it. No, no, it's not

Batman. Who are you? And, you know, having to

go up against the, I, I, uh, again, I, I butcher

names all the time, but the Maribu too, or whatever

they, all these Ant -Man, I'm like, when Scott

Lang going to show up? Right. Like, like if Scott,

you know, if we could just make this a Marvel

cross, or Scott could just show up and say, Hey

guys, stop it. Probably not, but I mean, I had

never heard of half the villains in this band

book before, you know, before reading it. So

I'm just like, All right, you're bright and colorful.

You've got to be the bad guy. It's like the anime.

Pick the main character. Which one has the brightest

color hair? That's true. Who's got the lavender

eyes? You're on me. Let's go. And I love that...

So part of this, the story is that the... this

crime organization is kidnapped Lucius Fox and

Luke has to go save his dad and that's what he

and Batman are doing there and and You know Batwing

do you have Lucius Fox got him Batman? I also

just lit a fire so I need to get out of here

and then you know, you see Batman doing his thing

and You see Luke and Lucius are you know kind

of like hey what's going on and And then it goes

back to the family life. And I'm like, that's

a good transition from superhero adventure immediately

again, going off the whole, oh my God, I'm Peter

Parker. I'm showing, he's not, he's not Peter

Parker, but that style of story of balancing

the hero and the person that you are outside

of the costume, it's just so fun and crazy. I

mean, there's a lot of good moments in this volume.

That's why I was saying I'm really glad that

you were like, hey, let's do these because I

Never would have picked this up and I was telling

Ed while we were reading it I was like, I'm actually

kind of really overwhelmed by how much I like

this Yeah, I was too and it's one of those things

where I'm like, oh, I'm so sad this didn't continue

Yeah, because it was so abrupt. Yeah Mean it

felt like they were it felt like they were just

getting through their paces like getting through

the beginning of it Just to get you set up to

who this is making you care about everyone that's

in it and they hit a huge story arc and then

nothing oh Yeah, I mean we continue on through

here and we get this adventure in in Mumbai And

we're introduced to this, at least to me, this

new character, Lady Vic. She's not new. Like

I said. Like I said, the Chuck Dixon, Scott,

Scott McDaniel run on Nightwing. So that kind

of dates her back a little ways for you. I mean,

Lion Man, he was brand new. I was like, who is

this? Who's this thundercat looking mug? Yeah.

Like I said, she's new to me like I didn't know

who she was because I have not read the sadly

I Need to catch up on that if you were here I'd

smack your hand because that's like the greatest

nightwing run ever if you're wearing a nightwing

t -shirt in your fucking profile pictures Justice

man, I'm proud of them for that because they

brought her out and she came out swinging lady

Vic. Yeah Yeah, I mean well, I like the whole

exchange between him and Bruce while he's like

Getting ready to go track her down and everything

like that because I mean it's like yeah, I knew

she was there so You're just now figuring it

out. I guess you got to get better than huh?

Yeah He's like, yeah. Oh, yeah I just you gave

me two individual descriptive items of this woman

you ran into a she's from like England She's

got English accent, southern England actually,

if I'm not mistaken. And she's blonde. And he

was like, oh yeah, that's Lady Vic, she's gonna

kick your ass. You're lucky to be alive. Yeah.

Shit out of you, sir. What are you gonna do now?

And I love their fights. Yeah, I love the way

they fight with each other. Lady Vic and that

way. It's so good. Well, I thought it was funny

too, because like that particular fight, like...

the beginning of the issue he's already there

he's cocky you know and he's trying to like you

know strong arm this assassin into it and beat

her ass physically and she mops floor with his

ass and throws him up the building and then he

comes back in the second round he's like alright

so this is how I fucked up the first time I'm

not gonna do that again I'm gonna throw my toys

at first Yeah, I love how that issue ends with

him Where she basically just she basically just

stiff legs him she basically kicks him right

out like you said right off the building Let

me ask batwing. Can you fly? And ends and I'm

like, oh I'm so like if I was reading this is

why as much as I Support and absolutely love

the whole idea of single -issue buying and single

-issue reading and support your local comic shop

and all of that this is why I love reading and

trade so I don't have to wait and agonize over

oh my god is batwing gonna die this month or

not and then and then what gets me is that issue

ends the next one opens in the trade and it's

the darwin cook cover and I'm like oh great just

great just wait like obviously now Don't I don't

think I think Darwin was still alive when this

was done I'm pretty sure because obviously he

wouldn't have a cover if it wasn't here But it's

like now that Darwin cook is no longer with us.

I'm like, oh god So as soon as I saw this cover

and as soon as I saw one of the covers from next

week's issue, I'm like easily those two are the

covers that are gonna be the cover art for each

of these podcasts because I'm like How could

you how could you not put this? Yellow and blue

and black Darwin cook cover as a as a as a cover

art for a podcast so great Anything Darwin does

is immediate Now that he's gone it's Yeah, it

really does suck. Absolutely So we are So we

just ended the the story where he's falling off

the building at that point From what you guys

have read to that point, how are you feeling,

Kendra? How is all of this meshing in your mind?

One of the main things that stands out to me

while we're going through it, especially up to

this point, is that when it comes to the minions

of these villains, they're not a problem for

him. They make him immediately cocky because

he has no problem taking on hordes of them. But

when it comes down to the main villains, they

test him. Each one of them so far has, because

lion main... I mean, he cleaned his clock. I

mean, and this kid is somebody who was able to

win an MMA fight in 49 seconds. So it's not that

the boy can't fight. It's just that he needs

to learn a style that works for him that helps

him defeat the villains. That's the thing. He

has to play to their weaknesses. And again...

Years of Batman and Robin training. He does not

have so Even though he talks trash about the

robins and he's like at least they're not calling

me Robin. Uh -huh But that's something that I

love because he starts to get super cocky like

I was saying well Ed was talking about it He

gets cocky about it until he meets these main

people and they're just like no, we're not playing

it that way And you see that a lot with this

fight with lady lady big because she takes him

out in in what must be second Because he's sitting

here trying to analyze the situation. He's like,

oh, I don't want to hurt you You know, but you

know, I don't have women and she's just like

aren't you just simple? Just a beautiful moment

of her being like, well, all right, now that

I know where you stand, let's end this. And you're

right, like him falling off, if I had read this

issue to issue, I would be so frustrated because

I don't have patience. I really don't. It is

one of my worst qualities. I am the most impatient

person you will meet, especially when it comes

to a good story. And this one would have had

me, like, really. Mm -hmm. Yeah, that's like

with me. Like, I don't want to, like... Cliffhangers

are great. They really are. But I need the whole

story. Like, if you're gonna give me a five -issue

series where issue four leaves off on a cliffhanger,

I need to immediately read issue five to see...

What happened? Yeah, exactly. And it's like,

this is why I love streaming services so much.

I can watch a whole television series on whichever

app I want. And I don't have to worry about week

-to -week airings or whatever. Yeah. We are a

society of instant gratification. That's right.

It's where we are now. What about you, Ed? What

were you thinking up to this point of the first

fall of Batwing? Was kind of on the fence honestly

reading it. I mean again about that man fan,

so I'm always reading that and I'm used to the

cliffhangers, but Some of it was grabbing me

and other parts of it just were kind of like

whatever Can I get through this so I can get

to the next you know? Brightly colored and guy

that he's gonna smash into or whatever, right?

but yeah, I going to be the downer in this party.

You know, I wouldn't have continued reading it

if it was just for the the first issue or two

alone. Yeah, the story just wasn't grabbing me.

So yeah, and that's fine. You know, hey, if it

doesn't grab you, it doesn't grab you. That's

that's cool. What I love is we start this this

next issue here is as he's falling, he falls

over rooftops and through things and down things

and he ends up crashing into a some sort of stripper's

dressing room? I don't know. Everybody screams.

And, uh, please calm down. Not gonna hurt anyone.

Please, it's okay. The girl screams and she basically

just shoves him back out the window. I'm like,

damn. It's Gotham, bro. True. People ain't screaming

around in Gotham. True, but it's a - Look who

they've had to deal with their whole lives. That's

true. In scarecrows and jokers and riddlers and

Baines and I think I think that you guys have

already brought this up I like how they they

show him what I would consider to be teachable

moment. Oh, yeah, absolutely Like with lion man,

he learned that brute force is not the way to

go and with lady Vic He learned that relying

solely on his technology and his toys is not

the way to go And with these lovely strippers,

he learns that calm down is probably not gonna

work. Yeah, I know. I don't know if they're strippers,

but you're right. It does look like some sort

of dressing room to me. It does not. That scene

does not look like it's a Gotham high society

party with champagne flutes and things. It looks

like they're getting. I mean, yes, they're not

all naked or anything like that, but I mean,

one of them, I don't know, they're all on their

phones and, well, they do have champagne, so

it might be, I don't know. That's even more common

in the stripper room. Thanks. So, yeah, Lady

Vic gets to her convertible and he's like, okay,

time to regroup. time to figure this out oh wait

my clothes are halfway across town and the suit

really isn't doing it right now so oh look i

can grab these these these clothes off this cart

hey that's my house i love that they did this

i think this is so cool kind of reminded me of

some og spawn stuff going on there i love how

he just gives the guy some cash like i don't

know how much cash that was but you know I mean,

that that could be any two bills. There's no

and I love that the the artist and the colorist

did not define the bills. But the way the way

the homeless guy looks at it, I'm like, hey,

you know, he like gave me 100 bucks. Oh, he did.

Sure. You got a little rags. And we get back

to the family stuff, which is good, which is

cool, which is interesting. And we get back to

his love life and we have. You know, his, um,

his girl Xenia, or Xenia, or whatever her name

is, and... And then we... Xenia? Okay. Xenia.

No, it's not I, it's just Xenia. I don't know,

just trying to be outside of all this. So they

have a, uh, bountiful, wow wow moment, and, uh...

Because her dad died! Well, right, but... I don't

know if that's for or through that, because that's

a cool moment for this one. Like, you're... You're

happy about the money in the bum this one is

this one is one that got me because he gets home

after getting his ass kicked after being thrown

into a dumpster by potential strippers he has

a bum's clothes on that he had to pay for and

he arrives home and Here's zena on the front

porch and her dad has died you know she got home

after everything was going down with him and

Her dad has passed away from a heart attack And

here she is, like, you know, basically in a fitted

despair. And I like that because he literally

looks at her and he's like, I don't want to take

advantage of this situation. I don't think that

you're in a good mind space. And that's something

that's really cool to see them do in comics,

because it's not something that we get to see

very, very often. And I like how socially conscious

they were for this scene, Jimmy. Exactly. I mean,

it's both of them. I liked what they did with

this one. Yeah, it's so good. so very very good

I was not ex like I was not expecting Luke to

get laid after her dad died but hey you know

if that helps her take her mind off of it at

least for one night and then he wakes up to a

thank you note she is so strange and by far the

I wish they would do this more in the comics

I don't know if they do or not they probably

do because I'm so far out of DC right now we

need to talk click click click like every every

message from Batman or Bruce is basically like

click click I'm like wow you know who that is

calling him right sitting in a completely silent

comic book click oh shit he just got a text from

Batman click So good, they don't have a bat symbol

anymore. They just send text messages Click -click,

you know, let's be I really like the family dynamic

in that scene too though because he's got messages

from his mother as well She was scheduling a

dinner a family dinner so that everybody would

come together and she's like the the neutral

party between him and his dad Which is it is

I mean that's a real family dynamic Where you

know, she's like I've got your dad calm down.

Just come on over Let's get past the tension

and the rhino in the room and have a family dinner.

And that's something that you see consistently.

I mean, for me at least, I don't know if you

guys got this as well, but there are some moments

where I fully can understand some of the things

that Lucius will say or expect of his son. Same

thing with the mom. But they are... There's some

where I'm just like, okay, but was this necessary?

Like, I think you're just angry to be angry at

this point. Yeah. I kind of got that feeling

about his mom. Well, but Lucius is the same way.

And I know Mike, like you had said, you know,

he expects so much from his son, but there are

some parts where I'm just like, okay, but there's

expectation. And then there's just like, well,

at least with Lucius, you get the pay off of

that because. I mean, I don't think it's not

in this volume, but it's in the next volume where,

you know, the two of them have the heart to heart

and he's doing a fucking try. I think that if

they had been allowed to continue the series,

then maybe I would have gotten the payoff I was

looking for. But you really don't. I think the

thing is, if you had given them. OK, so again,

we're. doing all kinds of spoilers here folks

so if you don't know the only one the oh yeah

that's right and knowing is half the battle the

other half is red laser blue laser the only the

only person that gets to know the secret of batwing

is his little sister tiffany yeah i both love

that and i think it's also a thing of i would

like We go through this whole thing. Again, it

must be in next week's because we were originally

going to record these all at once, folks, but

sadly we can't. It's one of those things where

Lucius X asks Batwing at one point, oh, that

technology, I recognize it, blah, blah, blah.

I wish Lucius knew the overall. Bruce Wayne Batman

secret now I don't know if that necessarily would

put him in a dark night kind of sense where it's

like I can't be privy to this okay Lucius type

in your name and press enter and it'll be done

kind of thing but right there were times where

I'm like oh I wish she could just tell his dad

and I wish his dad would stop calling him Cuz

that doesn't necessarily call him a screw -up,

but Luke thinks, you know his parents He's a

screw -up and that's kind of the underlying issue

with the family stuff with him is because they

the way they constantly act around him or have

these Expectations towards him. He constantly

feels that they feel he is a screw -up and again,

that's Very Peter Parker ish, but it's okay because

it does come with some sort of payoff With great

responsibility. Yeah Comes back bunker three

Yes But I mean and I agree I agree a hundred

percent because that's that's something that

you know We get they get so close to it and a

couple of these issues where it's like, okay

I would trust in the intelligence of any member

of the Fox family in this specific scenario to

figure out that this is who this is. But it never

happened. At least in Lucius. Right, at least

in Lucius. Yeah. You think that that would be

some sort of story beat that they could... I

think if they were trying to, they just didn't

get a chance. Yeah, they just yeah. Yeah. And

that and that's what sucks about it. We take

all of this with a grain of salt. Yeah, absolutely.

Because this was a couple of years ago now. So

this is, you know, it's all well and done at

this point. Again, going back is always twenty

twenty hindsight, at least in hindsight. Most

things aren't bad. Well, now we're in twenty

twenty one. So it's definitely twenty twenty

hindsight. All right. So we need to sort of move

it. for Zack Snyder to release the Batwing Snyder

Cut. Please, no, stop. Just don't. Let's get

the rest of the story. Let's go. See, that's

the thing. Like what we were saying earlier with

the I can't remember whether it's the three Jokers

or what's the other Joker? Joker War. I can't

remember. I think it's Joker War. There was an

issue where it was like an anthology style jam.

That was happening in between that were a bunch

of short stories that came out either in the

end of November beginning December But one of

the stories was about the fact that they are

bringing nightwing Back or batwing not nightwing

that wing back into the fray and it's supposed

to start in March So we might get it more of

the story well in March well that was When the

error 5g stuff was supposed to go down Which

was supposed to basically be the new continuity

for a DC universe, but that was changed to what

we're reading now the future state stuff and

Batman there's two Batman in that universe and

one of them is blue box. Oh Okay, that's cool.

Next bad spoilers. Holy crap Everybody knows

it's already a little it's not everybody knows

it's not everybody reads the internet Spoilers

who does not read the internet now for their

news about comics, right? If you know Good all

right somebody out there. They still make them

they do they watch stuff on Betamax to possibly

They might still believe there's a blockbuster

I even think I even think the last remaining

one down in Oregon got shut down after a while

though I don't think it's open anymore blockbuster

Alright, well then don't quote me about the March

thing, but they were supposed to do a storyline

that was bringing Batwing back into the fray

as of March, and it was gonna be Lucius taking

on the suit to protect his family. I was actually

excited for it, especially after you were like,

hey, read these and let's do something about

that. So we get to the second fight between him

and Lady Vic, and okay, Batwing fights her in

a bikini. Hold on a second. Okay. David, even

Batwing had to have a montage. We got the two

pager that was two, a two piece montage of him

upgrading the programming and fixing the suit.

So I'm like, I look at her right immediately

as I'm reading them like, damn, even Batwing's

got a montage. So we had that giggle. So we're

continuing on to the bikini. Yeah, it's very,

very, very much Christmas in Batwing's world

when he goes into Bat Bunker 3 and, again, showing

that he can upgrade the suit on his own. He doesn't

need Batman's help because, hello, he's from

a genius family. He is a genius. We even get

more of the family stuff and he apologizes to

his mom that he never saw the messages because

the girlfriend's father died and everything else

and they kind of make up. Yeah, and then we get

to We get to him tracking lady Vic and yeah He

fights a bikini great Bikini which is her immediate

downfall Well, but this is this is a good point

of what I was saying earlier where you don't

necessarily get To see the mainstay even in Gotham

City. You don't get to see the mainstay villains

Right or what you would expect in Gotham But

they are mentioned like with this fight specifically

because what he uses against her is the fear

toxin From Scarecrow Scarecrow. Yep, that he

modified to have Truth serum in as well. Yeah,

I was like, yeah That's a cool toy. Good one,

bro. That's a very Yeah, that's a very very cool

toy and Just see like again. We have monster

Batman Beyond here and who hired you to blow

up Wayne Tower like Take off those hockey pads

And you know, so we again we get the whole thing

with And this is this is really cool so he gets

answers from her because of the truth serum and

everything else and he's gonna go after the after

the the main big bad, yeah and And and Batman's

like it was only a matter of time until he returned

Who is he just another delusional criminal? I

love how Batman just dismisses it The thing is,

I've never heard of him before. I've never heard

of him. I was like, I mean, I've heard of Caligula,

but I've never heard of this guy. Not this version,

yeah. No, I was like, I've never heard of him

before. But he's intriguing. I like him. Yeah,

he is. Like a delusional cable that's not from

another timeline. But no, I mean, I really liked

what they did with him where he's got... His

whole villainy thing is Roman themed. So we're

going off, yeah, Maxi Zeus style. And we're going

off to Rome and he's got this whole, just like,

it's not even like a Caesar's palace type thing.

It's a whole town. Yeah. The whole island. It's

cool. And I love as he's, as Batwing is, um,

is talking with Batman and figuring out what's

going on. You know, Batman says, I have a contact

in Rome. She will have information on a Caligula's

movements. I have to do something first. Can

it wait? I love how Batman is like, this is like,

and this is the thing with Bruce and Bruce is

pretty much the only one like that. You know,

Bruce is the only one like this. Can it wait?

Can't you focus on the bad guys first? No, no,

he can't because it's the funeral scene. Yeah,

but I like that he stood his ground. Oh, absolutely.

No, he can't. Yeah. If there was anybody else

in the Bat family, they would have been like

bullied into doing it right then. Oh, absolutely.

And I think that's a good thing that he's not,

I mean. He's part of the bat family, but like,

like we've already said and joked about, he's

no Robin. He's no, you know, night wing. He's

no whatever. He's, he's no demon son. Oh, I hate

that kid. Um, that was the whole point. Yeah.

Uh, and that's kind of where this part of the

story ends because we now have way back when,

when they were doing zero year. And this is where

the confusion probably comes into play. Dude,

I got so aggravated when they did that. I warned

them. I was like, look, you're going to come

up on a couple of stories here in a bit because

I was ahead of them for this read. I was like,

you're going to come up on this and you're going

to be like, where am I? And sure enough, he got

there and he was like, why does it keep flip

flopping? Where are we? So I love how this part

of the story ends at, I mean, I don't want to

say I love it, but I do love that they get an

ending with, you know, him apologizing to Z about

her dad and we see the funeral and all of that.

And then I think that if I was reading this in

singles, I'd be like, okay, but what's next kind

of thing, but it isn't a full on cliffhanger.

It's more of a resolution where it's like. He's

saying to her you're not alone and they hug and

then we get to zero year, which I I remember

we covered a bunch of this stuff way back when

and I was not I was a fan of some of the overall

into it like Batgirl zero year and Nightwing

zero year I liked but the overall Story idea

behind it like did not really Did not really

care for it all that much Other than the fact

that it's set up the next arc and volume five.

Yeah. It's literally just so it was a cast off.

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, it's like, oh, we're

going to show his determination to get back up.

You know, what do we do when we fall? We get

back up. Why do we do this gravity? I mean, because

it's kind of an Uncle Ben, you know, Daddy Wayne.

I love it. Everyone is in this fight over now.

My head's already there anyways because I'm playing

both the Marvel spider -man games. I know Yeah

But I do like what I do like what the zero -year

issue does though here because it basically gives

Luke his own villain Who was a best friend or

a former friend kind of thing? So I like that.

But yeah, you guys are right. This is basically

you know, hey, we got a beat the bad guys and

then we got a run and then we got a this and

then we got a that and I Mean, I'm not trying

to take away from the writing at all because

it is very good writing. It's just like we said

it's it's Yeah, it's a you're in the middle of

this Caligula shit and then all of a sudden zero

year. We're like what? Go back I want to go back

to the other stuff, but it serves its purpose.

I mean like you said Mike it sets it up for him

you get to see the creation of what happened

to create this villain. And I absolutely love

what caused this, I don't love it in that sense,

but I love what we see causes him to snap and

why he takes one path versus another. So I like

that a lot. Yeah. Like how it also shows that

this is when Batman first noticed Luke even though

I'm sure he already knew about him But this is

like that moment of oh So this is where it comes

from. This is when he was like Yeah, exactly

Yeah, but I like that too though, I mean I I'm

in the same boat because you get to see not only

because it's mentioned several times where either

whether whether it's bruce or alfred for that

matter being like you know oh well this was your

first pick and you know this is who you wanted

in the beginning and i don't think that they

mean that in any derogatory sense towards david

oh no not at all no but this was somebody that

they wanted to bring in at first and i guess

that they just weren't ready to do it yet bruce

was waiting for i guess the right time to do

it and david giving up the mantle Yeah, it just

everything aligned perfectly Because not only

was Bruce wanting to bring Luke on but Luke was

trying to get Batman's attention. So it just

fit perfectly Yep Absolutely So Yeah, the zero

-year issue was a little jarring to have in the

middle of this but I think it did work overall

it did Like I already said, set up for what's

going to happen next time in volume five. And

then we get Batwing in Rome. Wow. Another Darwin

cook cover. Oh, I love those. Oh, so good. Right.

Yep. And what I love about Luke as Batwing is

that he can go undercover as somebody completely.

you take a white kid with black hair and You

know You kind of figure it out that oh, this

is Dick Grayson. Oh, he's always hanging around

Batman Oh, he like but you take Luke who is not

necessarily a virtual unknown but you know he

can do the whole undercover thing whereas I don't

know outside of The Grayson part of I still can't

get over that storyline. Agent 37, my ass. Bad,

bad things coming into my mind from when that

happened. Anyway, just was not a fan of that.

but you know Luke can go undercover and and because

no one knows him and no one knows who he is and

he's not really tied to Bruce or the Waynes other

than the fact that obviously his dad does work

for him, but it isn't like he's Like we've already

seen in this in this trade. He's not chummy chummy

with Batman He's almost an antithesis of Batman

because Batman doesn't like quips So Luke is

in Rome and he gets to fight some old friends,

kind of. His lion mane shows up at one point

or another. This dude with fiery fists and like,

wow, just wow. Yeah, I mean this was really fun

and cool and again, it's showing Luke out of

the suit It's showing him doing things without

needing the superhero part. He's still a superhero

He's just not having to be in the suit all of

the time Right Where are you guys thinking to

this point? Like I said, I really like that we're

getting to see different villains and that we're

not, I mean, and I know this is something obviously

central to Batman incorporated, but I like that

we're not always in Gotham. Oh, yeah, that's

refreshing. I like that we've been to Africa.

We've been to Rome. I mean, and here in Rome,

we not only get to see new villains, but we also

get to see, I think her name is Legionnaire.

Yeah. Legion area right. I I love that we get

to see different different heroes as well So

for me, I mean I was I was hooked by this point.

I was like I was invested I cared about Luke

as a character. I cared about Lucius the the

Fox family a little bit more This was this was

a good point. I mean, I really liked it. I liked

seeing Caligula's little island like I was super

excited. Let Mortal Kombat begin. The gladiator

scene? Oh, yes. You have me. Let's go. So there's

several things, and we all know this, there's

several things that you have to do at some point

during a Batman story, no matter how much time

you get on it, get on the story, get on the writing

or in the art. You have to at least show a cool

Batmobile scene. They've already done that. you

have to at least show a few good bat gags. They've

already done that. And what is super cool, the

best thing, it might actually probably become

my Facebook cover photo at one point, is the

scene where Legionary says, Caligula has locked

himself in the control room and is blowing the

place up. This door is impenetrable. Not for

long. All these batwing bomb all these batarang

bombs he throws. I'm like, oh, that's a good

Batman image showing batwing throwing the throwing

the batarang bombs. That is so cool. I love that

I like the fact that they actually weren't bombs.

They were thermite. Yeah Yeah, yeah, they melted

the door. They weren't actual bombs that would

pull it up But yeah, you're right. They they

melted the door and that was so cool. Oh look

Batman had done it the door it'll exploded there

been all smoke and probably a couple bats and

shit like that But then he comes in melts everything

so let's do this Caligula's face was priceless

in that panel It reminds me a lot of I mean you

could have switched it between that wing and

Caligula and had Batman and Riddler there just

the amount of You foiled my plan what? It was

brilliant and I don't know why Luke had to pull

a Superman line as he exits though up up and

away That was such a jab. Oh my god. I giggled.

I was like really really and We get a whole nice

splash panel. Look Rome is burning That's what

I'm saying earlier this guy's but Luke is such

a smartass and I love it. I'm here for it Yes

And then there is like that jokes and they're

funny Yeah, at least there's like why don't you

stay for a little while you'll eat like a king

Yeah, I do love Italian and that's how we end

this one Oh, man, this was so fun. I was irritated

because I ended it. I was waiting on the next

issue where they're going to go eat like kings

and take down some more bad guys and shit. It

was like, why? It was like, and that's what I

think that's where I was just like, OK, like

if I if I were a reader back in the day and I

went from main story, side story, main story,

where's the rest of it? Yeah. Would have been

so mad as a reader I don't know I don't know

if I would have been petty and just been like

I'm done Or if I would have been like alright

fine you get one more issue But no more flip

-flop Yeah, but it is so good. It is so fun and

Between the writing and the art it is all done

so well Yeah, I Love the art Absolutely. Uh,

what would we, do we have anything else we want

to bring up about this one? I don't know because

I've pretty much said everything I had for this

one. Everything else I've got is for the next

one. Okay. The only thing that I would say is

if you're new and you're picking this up because

of this podcast, burn through volume four so

you can get to volume five. I would I would still

say enjoy volume four. I mean for what it is.

I mean it yeah, you know looking at this Since

we're we're kind of doing this now This series

man, so Batwing ran from 2011 to 2014 and as

I said There was a different writing team on

every single volume up until volume 4 because

volume 4 you have Jimmy and Jen Justin Through

to the end volume 1 the original writer was Judd

Winnick and the art was done by Ben Oliver When

when batwing first started volume 2 was done

by Oh Judd did do volume 2. Okay, Judd Winnick

Dustin Nijin and Marcus tow on volume 2 and then

volume 3 it changed Oh, no, Judd is still here,

but it it has Fabian Nizia and and Judd Winnick,

but basically after that it changes to Justin

and and Jimmy and I don't like i remember when

batwing like when the whole new 52 was announced

and who they were going to have and whatever

i wasn't really that interested in batwing of

africa i was not interested in batman of africa

kind of story i just wasn't at the time and again

i'm not somebody generally that takes to new

characters fairly well especially if they're

a stat like especially if there's an overall

like the bat family is very established obviously

right over 80 years if you take a character that

i already know i mean i knew of luke i knew of

lucious and lucious obviously has had children

and yada yada yada so that's kind of a tie -in

thing and some new characters i can get a hold

of but like other ones i'm like I remember back

then when this was going on, when we were covering

New 52 back in the day, I was solely Batman,

Nightwing, and Batgirl. Those were my three.

I didn't read, really, anything else. Because

there are so many Bat titles. You just can't

keep up with all of them. Yeah. They were like,

this is the New 52 of Batman and some other DC

stuff, too. Yeah, it's like... Batman is 51 of

the 52 and then the Superman and Wonder Woman

of the other half of 52 Now I think Green Lantern

had more books than they did Yeah, most likely

between the Green Lantern book the Red Lantern

book Green Lantern core book Yep, I think you

know, Larfley's had a book Sinestro had a book.

Yep. They did I'm like, all right Just get the

other thing out your system good. Yep On a scale

of 0 to 5, 0 being the worst, 5 being the best,

what would you guys rate it? For this whole one,

I would probably do a 4 .5. What about you, Ed?

I'd give it 4. Yeah, I'm right there for four

and a half. It's very good there usually sometimes

when I give low ratings It's because I didn't

like an art choice or I don't like a character

direction kind of thing But this was super fun

super cool Normally, I'm not too thrilled with

Juggling story beats, but this really did work

and I love how they wrote it I love how the artists

drew it and inked it and colored it and Every

piece of this had something interesting and different

and cool, and it was super fun. Yeah. It's definitely

worth reading. I mean, especially if you've got

the DCF and you've been going through all of

your mainstay favorite titles and reading and

stories here and there. Yeah, this is definitely

one to go back to. Yeah, this is a take a break,

read something new, you know, burn through it.

You know, you definitely get your time out of

it and enjoy it. All right. The only reason for

me that it's not a five is just because of the

confusing storyline. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I can't really blame them for that, but

at the same time, I was kind of like, well, yeah,

I can. There was no like super stakes involved

for us either as new readers, because we're not

attached to all of these characters yet. Right.

I mean. you don't get the emotional investment

that you would and say it was like a Nightwing

title or a Zatanna title or something like that.

Yeah, but I didn't go into it looking for that

though. I mean, I think I went into this one

with absolutely zero bottom line, you know, expectations.

And I was pleasantly surprised. I mean, I liked

the character. I liked the story flow, except

for those few issues. And even in those few issues,

it's not that the story itself for the artwork

or any of that isn't good It's just that it's

very jarring as a reader to be invested and have

your blinders on for this particular You know

what what you're following and then for it to

be like, oh no, we're over here But wait, we're

back over here and then we're back over here.

It's just it's it was a lot for me Yeah, yeah

Yeah, and four and four and a half aren't bad

ratings at all out of five. So oh, no, those

are good ratings. So yeah All right, where can

the people find you guys online and where are

you on social media and all that other good stuff?

Facebook obviously me Instagram Twitter that

at 700 for Twitter the Sith rules for Instagram

I'm on YouTube as well, putting up video game

clips and streaming on Twitch as well sometimes.

And all of that, you can find me under the Sith

rules. Cool. Cool. What about you, Kendra? Just

Google me. She said Google folks, not Google.

It's a difference. Yeah. Don't Google my wife.

I mean, for real, it's almost easier just to

be like, just Google me. But I mean, if anybody

wants to reach out, I have probably the easiest

way to get a hold of me is going to be on Twitter.

I am at devour all words. And that's that's honestly

the easiest way because I'm really not as often

on Facebook, although you could if you wanted

to. It's kinder hail. But mostly, I mean, if

you're looking for reviews or anything like that,

I'm on dark night news, DCN news. Um, I'm on

their podcast as well as doing opinion and news

pieces for them. Um, and occasionally I pop up

on fantastic universes writing whatever the hell

I want. So, I mean, if you're looking to read

reviews or to see new options for books, that's

probably going to be the best way to, to find

me. Cool. Cool. I am at TF2 and Mike on Twitter.

You can also follow at The Pull Bag also at GeekCast

Radio for all the homework updates we do. Coming

up next week, we've got Batwing Volume 5 Into

the Dark. Oh no, don't cancel the play! Oh no,

that's never a too soon joke at this point. Where's

my twisted T? Uh, I don't know. Alright, we're

going to get the heck out of here, folks. Make

your great escape into comics and we will catch

you next time here inside the Pull Bag. you can

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