Fandom Toxicity and Pop Culture Stagnation

You're listening to the Geekcast Radio Network.

Unleash the geek in you. Hello and welcome to

GeekCast Radio. This is episode 294. I am, of

course, TF2 on Mike. And today, folks, we have

to expose a bunch of stuff. And as I said in

the last episode, I am trying to go in the way

with this podcast. Talking about geeky things,

but broaching topics we normally don't. And sometimes

a fun conversation has to be had that is probably

going to be a hard conversation for some people

to hear. Look, Houston, we have a problem. So

yes, with that said, I welcome longtime friend,

longtime podcaster, Mr. Tom DJ. Hello, sir. Hello,

and I want to let everybody know, I thank Mike.

for giving me the platform he's about to give

me, but he is not to be pilloried for any of

the opinions that are expressed by myself. If

I'm pissing you off, you know where to find me.

At Nocturne Tom on Twitter. You can get me through

two true freaks or the ATWs. There are plenty

of ways to get to me. Don't harass him for what

I'm about to say. So in other words, folks, the

Geekcast Radio Network is not responsible for

anything Tom DJ says in the next hour or so.

However, I will say that it feels like you people

should be listening to this as you're better

off in the dark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like George

Carlin, I am now officially an old fuck, which

means I can say whatever I want. Just hope I'm

gonna die in a couple of years, but so I had

you had messaged me on Facebook You wanted to

do a an episode revisiting That thing that nobody

paid attention to both the modern fans manifesto

I Tried to get people to pay attention to it.

Oh, I know I know but It's in fact if anything

And I think this is just part of the entire,

the entire coarsening and decaying of society

as a whole. I think fandom has gotten kind of

worse since I posted that in what was it, 2015,

2016? Yep. And we did that podcast three years

ago in 2019. Yeah, so it's been a while it's

so So yeah, um It is kind of a lot worse and

You guys need to hear some truths. I Don't know

where to start though. Do we want to start? What

I was gonna say was when you messaged me about

this and I actually said this to kind of preface

it in the light at the end So the last episode

of the podcast was basically me announcing that

the geek cast radio podcast, the main flagship

show for the whole network. We've done big things.

Our entire, you know, we've talked about Batman

as a character. We've talked about franchises.

We've talked about this. We've done movie reviews.

We have our top 100 countdowns that we do. We

do all these big things on the main show. So

the main show doesn't have like. Weekly schedule

or anything. It's whenever something big comes

up right and Like you said I had said to you.

Hey, do we need to update this? Do we need to

change it? Do we want to revisit it whatever

and When I was teasing the thing I read to Steve

on the last episode what one of your messages

to me was which is Among the things that you

want to talk about is how Batman is not an aspirational

figure That's right. That's right. Yeah No, I

agree with that part because I have a whole thing

on that in a second how nostalgia is being used

as a tool to keep us stagnant and as a Society

and how we are not allowing society to put in

pop culture to evolve So getting things out of

the way on my end. Okay, I live on nostalgia

because I would rather go back and watch something

I had already seen than try to get invested in

something new that never gets a chance. I have

gotten burnt out on so many TV shows that have

gotten one season. And nothing ever happens after

that. And yet I could give a shit less about

Game of Thrones, which has like seven seasons,

whatever. So that's where I'm coming from on

this. I, you know, your opinions are your opinions.

We kind of disagree on the whole nostalgia thing,

whatever, but that's where I come. You want to

quote my friend Brian Zane here. Mm hmm. Like

what you like. Just don't be a dick. Exactly.

That's a simple. I respect your right to. Although

I would say that one of the reasons why you things

aren't allowed off the ground is because somehow

we've got installed in 40 years ago and instead

of letting the next generations Define their

pop culture We have you've sat them down said

no you're going to like Star Wars you're going

to like I think the most recent thing that actually

has become a mainstay of pop culture is Harry

Potter, and Harry Potter is a good 25 years old.

That's scary. Yeah, exactly. We haven't had anything

that has stopped. And I think also part of this

is specifically to I'm going to say comic book

characters, but I will also limit it to Batman.

But comic book characters and franchises and

other things, it's also because the companies

that own these people, that own these things,

that own these intellectual properties, want

to keep that going. They don't want to create

something new when they can sell a thousand Star

Wars figures or whatever. Especially when they

do try to create something new. It usually gets

laughed at, or ignored, or called one of the

worst things ever. Because there have been attempts

to do new science fiction properties. Hilarion

and the city of a thousand whatevers. Was an

attempt to adapt a property that had not been

adapted before. Something new. But no, people

weren't interested in that. Jupiter Ascending,

the Wakau Sea Sisters film was something they

wanted to do that was original and nobody wanted

it and everybody called it the worst thing ever.

Is it any wonder that they kind of have been

sitting in Netflix table and licking their own

wounds and only coming out because Warner Brothers

says, we're going to do a Matrix film with or

without you. And the funny thing is, is that

where we are now is not where we were 40 years

ago. 1982, we were, you know, television, VCR,

Betamax, whatever, you know, all of that now

is streaming. I remember when movie studios were

a big deal, like huge, huge. You heard 20th Century

Fox. You heard Warner Brothers. You heard Paramount.

You heard, I'm going to mention studios that

aren't even around. Carolco was a big deal around

the 80s. Renaissance Studios was a big deal in

the 80s. Almost all of them are gone because,

of course, certain forces in our government have

removed anti -trust laws to a point where a monopoly

could be made. And it's scary. And guys, understand,

Disney is not putting out a new Star Wars thing

every month on their platform because they love

Star Wars. They're doing it because people Well,

it will watch it indiscriminately whether they

hate it or love it And that that will give them

money that's all they care about is this giving

us money They did when they did um the rise of

the Skywalker Mm -hmm. It wasn't because they

wanted to apologize for the last Jedi and I got

some things to say about It was because they

wanted people to come back to the theaters and

they figured that was the best way. Because you

guys are so fucking fixated on what your franchise

was that you're not willing to let it become

what it could be. That is the thing. When I saw

Star Wars, and yes, I'm calling it Star Wars,

it was Star Wars when I went to see it at the

RKO Keith in 1977. Fuck you all and your New

Hope bullshit. First thing to understand is that

it was a standalone film. They didn't know that

it was going to become one of the biggest things

ever. He just made one film. And I think George

Lucas was kind of lucky he got to do that one

film because people didn't want to do it. Yeah.

But then it became popular and he said, OK, I've

got a second. I got two sequel ideas. He never

had a sequel idea for parts one and three, one

and three, and he never had a sequel idea for

part seven and nine. Let's get that right out

of the way. One in three is George Lucas from

when he for circa 1999 trying to pull what they

want in Star Wars Okay, I want to say something

here. Yeah, so I am I'm sorry Don't apologize.

These are your opinions. That's fine. I just

want to say I just want to interject here because

I want to say something you are I think I'm about

a decade younger than, I'm turning 42, you're

in your mid 50s. I am turning 48 this year. Like

I said, I'm officially an old buck. Okay, so

Tom is gonna be turning 58 this year, I'm gonna

be turning 42, so we're X number of whatever

behind each other as far as I'm younger than

he is. So when I discovered Star Wars, The Empire

Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi was the

VHS copies, Right. In, like, the late 80s. I

want to say somewhere between 88 and 89, maybe

87 at the earliest. So, when I watched those,

I remember this vividly, and I know I've said

this on this podcast before in the last 13, 14

years, and I've said it on other shows. As a

kid in the 80s, watching the three of those films

together, If I didn't immediately watch Empire,

my thought was on Star Wars. Wait, that's it?

They get medals and they go home? That's it?

So that was me as a kid, and I still feel that

way about that film, if you look at that film

by itself. It kind of ends on... It's a hero's

journey, but it ends on this note that is like,

yep, everything's okay, everything's gonna be

fine, whatever, and that's great. For me, since

then, I am all about story continuity. So in

1998 - The thing to understand, though, is that

he didn't have an empire ready, but when he wrote

Empire, he knew he was gonna get at least one

more film. Right, okay. So he was allowed to

create a continuity. He was allowed, here's the

thing. people these days When they put together

these films They are more interested in creating

the continuity first as opposed to tell a good

story Here's what you do Star Wars was a good

enough story that enough people demanded a sequel

and he made Empire Strikes Back and it just went

on and on and I think that there's also Something

to be said about the fact that there were only

three films for about ten years, right? so There

is a joy in finiteness that people don't understand

these days. But anyway, I'm sorry. So by the

time the... What the hell do they call that stupid

trilogy now? The prequels. By the time the prequels

came out, I was kind of excited for... At the

time I was 19 years old. I was just graduating

high school I didn't know if I was going to college

or not whatever and I was still a Star Wars fan

and I still because I had all these questions

and Whatever from when I was a kid from the first

the quote unquote first three movies. I Wanted

to know the story I wanted to see what the origin

was of you know, whatever besides the fact of

your father killed blah blah blah blah, whatever

and It wasn't exact. The only one of the prequels

that I somewhat enjoy sort of in some sort of

weird morbid curiosity way is Revenge of the

Sith because throughout the entirety of Star

Wars, they mentioned the Clone Wars, they mentioned

this, they mentioned that. We get barely a glimpse

of the Clone Wars in Revenge of the Sith. So

by the time that trilogy came out, I was like,

oh, okay. Well then, I guess that's that. I never,

if they had never done another, like, I don't

need to see what's after Jedi. I had, even if

Lucas had an idea of what would happen after

Jedi, I did not need to see a 789. Yeah, yeah.

At that time, after watching Revenge of the Sith,

after watching all of this stuff, you know, whatever,

and honestly, other than the fact that Rey is

the main character in Force Awakens, I could

not tell you a damn thing that happens in Force

Awakens. Well, the Force Awakens is basically

a soft reboot of... Yeah. But the thing is, I'm

okay with that, because what that is, is that

is Disney doing a mission statement saying, we

understand what you like. We understand the world

that we are building on here. And I'm fine with

that. And what I liked about Last Jedi is that

it set things up to go in a new direction. Brian

Johnson had ideas on how to take This property

into new directions and oddly enough last Jedi

is probably the closest spirit to the original

Star Wars any other films in that in that Star

Wars is The message is basically anybody a hero

Yeah It's here's this kid. He's out of literally

out on a farm He becomes this great adventurer

and does this great thing. He goes on a great,

excellent adventure. At the end of Rian Johnson's

Last Jedi, anybody could be a Jedi, anybody could

be a hero. It's the same message, but no, because

the thing is... It's eating its own Star Wars

is eating its own tail because it's only about

Even though it was set up to be this wide universe

with many different ideas many different worlds

to explore we are only Exploring the same dozen

characters over and over and over again, and

it's time to stop. Yeah it was we are Creating

Our pop culture is becoming stagnant. It's not

being allowed to mutate and breed and become

what it could be for the next generation. We're

just forcing this next generation, you're gonna

like Star Wars. Marvel is maybe the only thing

because it was based already on something that

was very open world, but even even that has become

kind of Annoying at times Yeah, I said it lousy

luck. Yeah, I mean as much as I liked I thought

most of one division was very interesting. It

was an interesting exploration about mental illness

and PTSD mm -hmm it and it degenerated again

of years Here's Elizabeth Olsen and Jessica Han

throwing fireballs at each other Mm -hmm want

that I was perfectly happy to exploring Wanders

up and how Dangerous it is that somebody with

powers can have that sort of That sort of break.

Yeah, as much as I loved Hawkeye, which was just

goofy fun and Bless you for bringing the Netflix

for basically saying yes, the Netflix series

exists Mm -hmm. So there there is a kingpin We

have we know that there is a daredevil. I can

only hope for Jessica Jones sometime soon Mm

-hmm. I just imagine Jessica Jones. We had no

time for spider -man's bullshit Yeah, I love

I love I love Christina Ritter as an actress

I could just imagine her giving that thousand

-yard stare to Tom Holland. Oh, yeah Yeah, but

anyway, I'm sorry No, no, no. Yeah. No, I mean,

that's the thing like, you know It's just that

It seems like we are in this perpetual cycle

Where we just want The same thing I mean look

at what happened with Ghostbusters, okay, I Still

haven't seen it. I have no clue. I have I have

no Like I don't I don't even care if you spoil

it. So okay, so I don't believe in spoiling much

details But it's it's not really much of a spoiler

that the ghost of Harold Ramis is involved Yeah

And for the most part, I guess I was okay with

it, except in the third act where they actually

used Harold Ramis's image. Oh no. And that annoyed

the crap out of me and I'll tell you why. Okay.

Harold Ramis did not want to be known as an actor.

Harold Ramis's true passion was in writing and

directing. That's why when he died, He's left

money to found a scholarship at Second City for

aspiring screenwriters. That's where he wanted

his legacy to be. I think that them using his

image like that is disrespectful to him in the

extreme. And I know you can say, oh, well, they

asked his family. They didn't ask him. Well,

they didn't they didn't have They asked this

family and of course the family was like, oh

we get a little bit of money from this. Okay,

sure No, no Leave dead people alone. There's

a reason there is a reason why Robin Williams

had it in his will mm -hmm That they cannot you

that no one can use his image or any of his recordings

for new material. Because after he died, Disney,

the general of the nostalgia weaponization complex,

decided to make a live action Aladdin. And the

original idea was they were gonna use Robin Williams's

voice tracks. Oh God I still have not seen that

movie so but they couldn't do it because of course

Will you can't do that anymore? Yo rock man haven't

seen you in a few millennia. Give me some Tassel

Yeah, yo, this is this is a company by the way

guys You know I know I get a lot of flack because

I boycott Disney boycott Disney Man, I steal

what I have to watch, I steal. That's right,

I steal, come get me FCC. Not that anybody's

gonna care. But the thing is, they don't care

about you guys. They care about exclusion, and

they care about... It seems like every year they

have this... thing where they're being their

chest going we care about gay people we have

the first gay character the first gay character

in a disney film and beauty and the beast and

yet it's the fact that that character is gay

is never mentioned um granted by you by the way

perhaps the best gay gay feature disney ever

produced was the original little mermaid which

is all about identity and trans rights and indeed

far but um you know and then they go we had the

first we had the first same -sex kiss in a star

wars film that if you could use a microscope

and look real carefully you could see in the

background but it's easy to cut out of the uh

markets for those people who don't like the homosexuality

and now recently oh yeah we had a we had a multicultural

cast for eternals like Yeah, but you had a multicultural,

you already had kind of a multicultural cast

going on. You had different people, different

ethnicities in your MCU. So shut the fuck up.

The thing with Eternals for me is I don't know

the characters so that means I don't give a shit

about watching Eternals. Well the problem with

Eternals is this. When Jack Kirby created Eternals,

he He wanted it to be, he explicitly wanted it

to be separate from the Marvel Universe. Even

the last two issues, the Eternals, where there

is an appearance by the Hulk, is referred to

as a robot some students make to look like this

cartoon character. The decision to make the Eternals

part of the Marvel Universe was something that

that was made by people after Kirby had left.

It was made by people like Mark Grunwald and

Roy Thompson. The fact that the Eternals aren't

supposed to be in the MCU and the fact that,

quite frankly, they're D -list characters don't

get involved. There are characters in the Eternals

I like. I'm a big fan of Bob Harris. Steve Epting

run of the Avengers, and Cersei was a major part

of that run. So, you know, I'm good with that.

The Black Knight was a major part of that run.

Finish her. Right. But they were D -list characters.

We're now getting to the point where we have

these characters that people are not going to

care about. Yeah, it's people like me who only

know the B and C list characters, who I mainly

know the A list characters, and I'm more interested

in those than characters they pull out of their

butts. Not that they're pulling them out of their

butts, not that they're doing that, but like,

you know what I mean? live -action Transformers

movie in 2007 to get the mainstream into that

franchise? If they didn't have somebody named

Optimus Prime and if they didn't get Peter Cullen

at the time to be the voice, I don't think the

Transformers live -action movies would have brought...

the billions of dollars that they've brought

since 2007. I don't know. Now I've lost my...

Okay, we were talking about Marvel and such.

Internals, yeah. That really gets under my skin

about the way Disney is handling Marvel right

now. First off, Captain America. Falcon and Winter

Soldier should have been a two and a half hour

movie. You could call it Captain American Legacy.

And make it about who has the rights to be Captain

America, okay? I think it would have done perfectly

fine in the movie theaters. But no, the idea

of a black Captain America scares Disney because

they don't want to anger the alt -right. Let's

be honest, they're not the alt -right anymore,

they're the right. They don't want to anger them,

so they shove it off onto Disney+. Arguably the

most successful character Marvel had created

in the last 20 years is Kamala Khan, Ms. Marvel.

A wholly original character that has a very tangential

connection to an already existing IP. Right.

She is Pakistani and she is Muslim. She is incredibly

popular. It's the book is a lot of fun and They're

afraid that she should have a movie before the

Eternals. Yeah, but no she's being shoved onto

Disney Plus and She when she's coming when she

does come to the big screen. It's gonna be as

part of something called Marvel's Yeah, it was

they're afraid of calling a captain of Marvel

to Even though that's what it's supposed to be.

See, as much as you want to say Disney is progressive,

Disney is not progressive. Disney is just looking

out, is saying what they think you want to hear.

They're saying, oh, well, we're doing multicultural

casting on all these remakes. But they don't

care about that. They just care about the fact

that people are going to come and see these live

action versions. The cartoon which has stayed

fucking cartoons And big ups to Peter Dinklage

for calling them out on their bullshit, yeah

So the thing with Disney Plus and their Series

no matter which whether it's Marvel Star Wars,

whatever I look at those as someone who Does

not like to leave the house I do and I will if

I absolutely have to but generally I am at home

the last movie I saw in a theater before the

pandemic even hit was a re -airing 30th or 35th

anniversary thing of Transformers the movie when

my wife was still alive. So like I have I used

to love, you know, you and I have talked about

this at length, off air, on air, on other shows,

whatever. I used to love going to the theater.

I used to love having the experience. Now I want

to be able to pause and go to the bathroom when

the fuck I want to be able to do it. So when

I look at something like Wandavision, Falcon

and Winter, Hawkeye, whatever, I just, as you

were talking there a minute ago, I went to Disney

Plus, I went to the Falcon and Winter page. If

you average out the times, the six episodes that

they do have for potentially the first season,

whatever, if it's a limited series and it doesn't

get back five, whatever, it's basically six hours.

It's basically six two -hour movies. There's

a lot of stuff you could cut out. Yeah, there

is a lot of stuff you could cut out. I just like

the format better, I guess. I don't know. Maybe

it's just me. As we said, like what you like,

just don't be a dick about it. And also, I kind

of like the format for Hawkeye because it was

kind of more of an episodic feel. And I would

not have a crush on Hailey Seinfeld or be a big...

I'm not a shipper for anybody. I'm shipping for

only two couples right now. One of them is Kate

Bishop and Yelena. Yep. So I know you're chummy

with my mom, but I gotta say, I didn't think

you'd make the cut for the Christmas party. Kate

Bishop. I'm not here to ruin anything. I'm just

going to kill Barton, have some appetizers, and

then I'll go. Well, I hope you enjoyed the bruschetta,

because it looks like you already lost him. He's

in the elevator. Well, yeah, what, out of 65

floors, you think you're just going to magically

guess which one he's on? 12th floor. Damn it.

Enjoy the party. No, no, Kate, stay. Ah. No.

What was that? I don't know. The other one is

Bait Rock and the Black Cat, which actually happened,

and I don't understand why nobody picked it up.

You mean Bait Rock and Felicia Hardy, Black Cat?

Yes. Black Cat issue number nine. I don't know

which volume it is. OK, I'll have to research

that later. Felicia Hardy goes on a date with

Bait Rock. Wow. And they are perfect together.

They go and steal stuff. And she steals like

this valuable piece of art and he steals a blender

for her because I know you don't drink much water

but maybe you can have a smoothie sometime. Smoothie

is smoothie. Oh my god. It is a - Brilliant issue.

It is a brilliant issue and it it's funny cuz

at the at the end of the issue They said oh,

well, we're not gonna keep in touch. I'm like,

no you need to I'm not just saying this is the

world's biggest Bait rock Stan But that's where

they're getting you though Tom They're getting

you in the fact that they aren't gonna keep in

touch because she has she feels she has to either

go back to a Morbius or a Parker Spider at last

no, no Go Gallic but um but yes, no, so those

are the only two and I love I love the interplay

between Halle Seinfeld and Florence Pugh in that

in that show and I want to see more of those

two together. Yeah, absolutely. I completely

agree that that was I am constantly quoting the

you are You have to stop making me like you so

much. Yeah The thing is that there's a couple

of like things that have come into this perfect

storm that has created the nostalgia weaponization

process Oh, by the way, Mike, and I'm not saying

that you have that it is, but nostalgia in earlier

versions of the cycle of basically the handbook

for psychology was defined as an illness. Well,

I guess I'm on death's door then, because like

I said, anything there are good things and bad

things. Yeah, the problem is we have now a lot

of people have and I think that God helped me

as much as I I love and respect Zack Snyder has

a person and Has a director I do not love his

pants. Oh No, I don't want to yeah, that's That's

right. I'm going there. That's a whole level

of toxicity that and the funny thing is and I'm

glad you actually brought that up because A lot

of this stuff that you see and other people see

and whatever, when I go on social media, I see

posts from 14 hours ago or two days ago or whatever.

And I don't end up seeing the up to the minute

what's going on now or the fact that somebody

got into an argument about who's the worst. Who's

the I don't want to say lesser of two evils because

they are two evils, but I'm going to say this

because of Allegations and things that came out

against these two people, but basically you take

a scale Bill Cosby Joss Wheaton, you know You

know what I mean? I don't see any of that because

I choose not to see any of that because if I

worried about all that stuff, if I paid attention

to all that stuff and I was one of those Snyder

fanboys, I didn't give a shit about Snyder Cut,

no Snyder Cut. I didn't even give a shit about

Justice League because I didn't give a shit about

Ben Affleck as Batman. By the way of truth, people,

there was no Snyder Cut. saw in the Snyder cut

was reshot footage footage that he did not shoot

or was abandoned and destroyed when he decided

to not to step down from the project right and

he had to come back and reshoot a lot of this

shit so this is not the Snyder cut this is not

how it was meant to look it is an approximation

of how it was meant to look you did not change

the world by forcing Warner Brothers hands and

you would think I would be sympathetic to these

people because of course I'm part of Veronica

Mars fandom that literally will not die Yes,

yes you are back not once but twice damn it You

would think that I should be on your side, but

I'm not guys because fully the way the way that

that you that you get down on James Gunn Because

he's doing a new Suicide Squad movie, which was

better than the heiress Suicide Squad movie.

That's I said it You know the way that you're

like still saying we should have the Snyder first.

We should keep the Snyder first Warner isn't

doing that anymore. They're not doing a connected

universe anymore. You understand that, right?

Warner's never did a connected universe to begin

with. you know implying is fine you're implying

it you didn't set out in 2006 or 2007 to create

this roadmap you didn't have the vision that

this one marvel person had to set yeah well let's

talk about 5g for a second here 7 -5 when he

made it when he produced iron man the first iron

man which is still a great film yes it is the

only The only real solid connective tissue was

that post credit sequence. So that way, if Ironman

had flopped, which it did not, Kevin Feige could

just shrug his shoulders, well, we tried it,

and move on. DC wanted to have a connective.

a connective world, a DCEU. And yes, you can

say that there's a direct line between Batman

versus Superman, to the Suicide Squad, to Wonder

Woman, back to Justice League, and back again.

But they didn't have a plan. Fightney had a plan.

He put out his feeler. He put out his little,

his bait to see if anyone bit. People bit. He

said, okay. Let's try something else then and

The idea was that that's why we hit we got Captain

America. That's why we got Thor The Hulk was

already in production at that time. Yeah, and

that's why We got the Avengers and if the Avengers

had failed Once again, Kevin Feige would have

just shrugged and walked away. Yeah, but see

the difference And I'm creating a universe that

they're not thinking about creating a good story

for people to watch. Yep. And that's the thing.

Like you just said, Iron Man could be a standalone

film. Yes. So here's where I'm going to take

this. Iron Man could be a standalone film. from

the time I was six years old in 1986 to the time

I was 16 years old in 1996 those 10 years nobody

ever stood in the movie sat in the movie theaters

through the whole credits nobody ever did right

if any one person says To me, if any one person

comments or gives me feedback, if I even get

feedback on this episode, about, oh, I stayed

through the whole credits, you're a fucking liar,

because nobody ever used to stay through the

credits. And there are some, there are, go ahead,

what? Then you must be calling me a fucking liar.

Okay, well. Much as, because basically, as you

know, my best friend in the whole world, may

he rest in power, Derek and I, did Better in

the Dark, 2007 through 2011, 2014, somewhere

around there. Yep. But he and I had a discussion

once where he said, you know, I sit through the

credits because these people spent their time,

too, on this film, and they deserve at least

a moment of acknowledgement. And I agree with

that. And I put it like put it like that. I said,

you know, that makes a lot of sense, Derek. And

so I stayed to the end of the thing. But then

again, Fiky came up with this idea of like, let's

put this little thing at the back and now everybody

has to have it. Yeah, that's where I'm going.

I can maybe I would have to search my film library

to see if I even could bring up the titles. I

can remember maybe on my hand, maybe two to three

movies that I have ever seen in my entire life

before Iron Man came out that had anything after

the credits or during a mid credits. Yeah. Ferris

Bueller, of course. Of course, yes. Yep, yep,

yep. There was a post -credit stinger in Tales

from the Crypt presents Demon Knight. Demon Knight,

yep. Where the cryptkeeper comes out and tells

you to wait for his next film, Dead Easy, which

never came out. And I mean, I guess technically,

I guess you could say that the... entirety of

the James Bond film franchise has a stinger about

that he will return but that really isn't like

that isn't staying and waiting for you know Tony

Stark to enter his house and yeah back in the

70s for us that was a way to find out what the

next movie was going to be called right exactly

70s it was James Bond will return in for your

eyes only or James Bond so we're like yeah what

next one what's the next That was exactly I wonder

what that one's gonna be about exactly. Yeah,

but the the whole thing of that I'm the reason

why I'm bringing this up is because now everybody

expects something and everybody is waiting for

something that's why through I think it's I think

it's the first four or maybe the first five of

any of the the Marvel TV shows on did like one

division there weren't like we were waiting I

I remember specifically watching Wandavision

and, like, ten -seconding it through every piece

of those end credits to make sure I didn't miss

something. But in general, overall... And even

though I agree with you and Derek about, you

know, showing those people the respect and staying

to the end, most people in theaters wanted to

get up and go to the bathroom after two hours

or get up like, oh, a storm's coming. We got

to get up and go home, which, by the way, as

of this recording, most of the United States,

at least in the winter regions, is being hit,

bombarded with snowmageddon. So everybody in

a snowmageddon place, including yourself, sir,

stay safe. We are trying our best you say and

while we're at it test negative stay positive

Use common sense wear your fucking masks. Yeah

Don't let this information get your fat get the

vaccination Don't let misinformation fool you

and anybody who says I'm not getting the vaccination

or I'm not wearing a mask because I have personal

rights. The only personal right you're exerting

is the right to die. So shut the fuck up. I'm

sorry. That makes no... You know, you're probably

gonna have to title this show. I'm not here to

make friends. It's the motto of every contestant

on every reality show ever. I'm not here to make

friends. And my first thought is, we don't have

friends in low places, folks. The thing is, OK,

since we're on the subject of Warner Brothers,

we might as well get to the three hour and relax

the room out of the way. Yes, The Batman, Matt

Reeves' The Batman starring Robert battinson,

and I have no problem with the casting I have

no problem with the director what I do have a

problem with is the property which is I'm sorry,

I think That man needs a little bit of a break

So I've been thinking about this since you brought

this to me about how he is not an Aspirational

character and I agree with you. He isn't so here's

the thing How many everyday people let's just

take your history in my history. Okay, so For

me personally, I was born with cerebral palsy.

I was born without a piece of my brain. When

I was growing inside my mother's womb, my corpus

column that separates the left and right hemispheres

of my brain, it was never there. It is not there.

I only found this out back in 2019 when I had

to have brain surgery. So I have cerebral palsy.

Number one, I can still walk, I can still whatever,

but my right hand and foot turn in slightly.

Those are really the only physical things that

people can really tell the difference unless

I actually go through and tell them the whole

story. Okay, number one, there ain't no way in

hell I'm gonna be Bruce Wayne Batman because

I can't drive, mainly because of the vision part

of the brain damage. But, you know, like would

I love to drive the Batmobile? Absolutely. Am

I ever going to be able to drive any kind of

car? No, not at all. So there's... You know one

big thing I am not physically even if I was still

at almost 42 years old if I was still my I Wish

I I wish I could go back to my seven -year -old

self and say don't stop eating Cookies eat vegetables

the rest of your life. That way you won't turn

into an old fat fuck But you know, I don't like

my seventh great self I'd say look Listen to

the, your parents are gonna start bringing you

to somebody called the therapist. Listen to that

person. Listen to that person and don't be afraid

of taking medication when they recommend it to

you. Because I was afraid, I was made afraid

by all this negative imagery of mental health.

on TV and in the movies, and I was afraid that

if I got on medication, I would become dull,

I wouldn't be able to write, and I wouldn't be

able to create, and I'd become like a zombie.

And because of that - Tom eat brains. Yeah, and

because of that stupidity, I prevented myself

from getting the help I needed for almost 50

years. But you're getting it now and you have

been getting it for the longest time now that

I've you know now since you and I have known

each other you have Accomplished so much and

I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna put it in this

way folks if You decide to go on to audible or

go on to their old website or whatever and you

listen to any of the first few episodes of Better

in the Dark That is a complifer a completely

different Tom DJ than the Tom DJ. I'm talking

to right now because back in 2007 2000 not yeah,

exactly you weren't but you have been over the

last X number of years and while you Okay, while

you still get passionate and angry about certain

things your Angry passion now is not who the

Angry Tom was. Yeah, I'm impressed by Angry Tom

of 2007 to 2014. I am actually ashamed of him.

But that is part of your character that, yeah,

that's part of your character, sir, that you

have to live with and, you know, you don't have

to be I'm sure at certain times you are burdened

by the memory of it, but you don't let it burden

yourself now because you know you're not that

person anymore. There is a particular episode

of Better in the Dark that Derek and I never

referred to by name after it was broadcast. Okay.

Because I went on such an angry Tom rant that

it It made me deeply ashamed and I called them

up the next day and said, we got to move away

from this. I got to move away from this. This

is not healthy. This is not good for the listeners.

This is not good for me. Yeah. So but yeah. But

anyway, the whole point here is you and I have

two totally different trajectories, two totally

different ways of. feeling like we can aspire

to be a certain type of person and Bruce Wayne

Batman and I'm gonna just I'm gonna straight

-up belittle the character and just say poor

little rich kid that his parents got murdered

right in front of him None of us neither one

of us grew up rich No idea what that's like and

what pressures that you know that comes with

that type of lifestyle Do we want to do the best

we can to help society? Yes, absolutely. Do we

feel like we need to dress up like a creature

of the night and jump off the rooftops to do

so? No, not at all. As much as I dislike the

Nolan trilogy, I got one thing really right,

which is in the third film, Batman going, wait

a minute, I'm rich. Can do so much more for my

just by being rich Mm -hmm So good on you just

for no one. I'm sorry that I just I don't like

the rest of your the rest of the films But um,

but the thing is is that Batman? Is constantly

in our face He's you know, we've got batwoman

on the sea on you know, the CW the Cape capes

and weepies network. We've got a TV show about

Alfred before he was Alfred. I still have not

ever seen Pennyworth. We had a TV show about

Batman before he was Batman, but not in an interesting

way. Yeah. Bruce Wayne traveling the world and

learning all this stuff and getting into adventures.

That's a good series idea Yeah, but but you know

having him hang around and be mopey in Gotham

and meet characters But here's the guy who's

gonna be the penguin He would she realized if

you follow that that logic all of his villains

are geriatrics by the time he becomes Batman

Yeah, but anyway, no, but but the thing is You

are so it's like if you look at DC DC has like

eight books a month now Devoted to the back.

Yeah, this is Kevin Conway and I am the goddamn

Batman We are overexposing him and overexposing

a certain type of him which is another thing

that we seem to forget which is Batman is one

of those characters like Superman like spider

-man Where they've been around so long? They've

ever been so many different versions him that

every version and every version is valid so if

I wanted to be a fan of the 66 Batman I could

yeah I should not be pillory for that oh yeah

seems like he sees just goes okay so no one wasn't

dark enough let's let's let's do Ben Affleck

and he can he actually kills people okay that's

not good enough Let's let's do Matt Reeves and

turn the Riddler my favorite Joker my favorite

Batman villain into a serial killer, which he

was not Yeah, and darker and darker Guys Here's

an idea instead of just going darker, why don't

you try another road? Yeah, I think that and

the thing is guys also Don't say that only Matt

Reeves Batman counts or or that only for Nolan's

Batman counts Yeah, so this is some refoggle.

It's the norm brief uncle slash Alan Grant that

that's my Batman Absolutely, and I'm down with

that Batman, but I acknowledge there's also Who

like Grant Morrison's Batman and you know? the

original bill finger being forced into servitude

by bob cain batman they're all valid yeah but

don't tell me that we have to go darker more

and that now the reader is a serial killer and

don't make your film three hours man oh god i

i understand stay here's an idea if you All that

money you put into a three -hour Batman, you

could have that budget and have a 90 -minute

Batman movie, and then you could make another

movie featuring another character. That's 90

minutes. Because you're putting all your money

into the one pot and making these three -hour

monstrosities, first off, it becomes a slog.

I don't care. How much you love a property you

can you can tell on the MC use the parts where

they're just Just dancing just trying to move

on. Yeah. Yeah and No fit a film that's three

hours long should deserve should earn its runtime

and Generally action movies don't earn a runtime

more than two hours But but yeah, that's just

unexcited. I'm sorry. That's just unacceptable

But and as far as I'm concerned with Batman the

character he's overexposed I think that if maybe

they took him off TV and movies for five years

Or make a new movie mm -hmm let the excitement

build up Let the desire to see Batman build up

Because how we're gonna miss something if he's

never gone see this is again, this is the thing

of Where we were 40 years ago versus where we

are now Right. Okay. Yes Okay, I'm sorry. Go

ahead. You take You take 1984 I'm gonna give

you four years here. You take 1984, 1987, 1984

and 1989. Right. 1984, Ghostbusters and Beverly

Hills Cop came out. Neither one of those films,

original films that released in theaters and

then came to physical media, whatever, neither

of them back then ever said anything about a

sequel neither of them were setting up a universe

and blah blah blah blah blah yes in fact quote

i will quote bill murray circa 1985 when he said

if we end up making ghostbusters two we they

people should just shoot us okay back 1985 nobody

wanted nobody wanted to make a ghostbusters uh

two And from what I understand, nobody wanted

to make Ghostbusters Afterlife either, but there

was a lot of pressure put on them. Yeah, that's

a whole other thing. So you take 1984 to 1987.

1984 you had Beverly Hills Cop, 1987 you had,

what is my favorite, is Beverly Hills Cop 2.

Only because... Was a child back then my mother

let me watch anything I would want to I didn't

see cop 2 until like 88 89 whenever cuz remember

folks back in the 80s it took at least six months

to a year and a half from theater to VHS Betamax

right laser disc whatever you want to call the

media of that day So I saw Beverly Hills cop

2 when I was I want to say 8 or 9 And I didn't

understand that I was a kid. I was just there

to laugh at the car crashes and stuff because

car crashes were cool at the time, you know,

for a nine -year -old. They're not, but they

are. It's a whole, you know, so - Have you ever

seen the original Smokey and the Bandit? I'm

gonna say no, because I don't remember, but I

might have. The glorious thing about Smokey and

the Bandit is it's basically a 90 - hour 45 minute

long pie fight only cars are the pies okay i

might have yeah entertaining yeah my yeah something

wrong with that there's yeah wrong with um no

my mother loves the fast and the furious films

but she doesn't love them for their deep mythology

them because she wants to see people doing stupid

things in cars. Exactly, yes. Guys, I'm hearing

all this chatter. Can you just take out a bank?

So my point in all of this is that from 84 to

87, that's three years. That's three years between

theatrical releases of a original movie and a

sequel. Same thing with Ghostbusters and Ghostbusters

2. It was five years more than three. But the

point is there was usually a two to three to

four year gap between films. you look at the

last decade from 20 hell i'll say from 2010 to

2020 or 2022 whatever you want to say we had

i'm trying to think of something that isn't marvel

that okay iron man was 2008 right iron man 2

was 2010 so technically okay that's technically

two years from release to release but Everything

else nowadays we are like on the edge of our

seats with any movie not just Marvel Oh, when's

the next one? When's the next one? Will there

be the you and I recorded an episode of a different

show on here on GCRN calls to 2009 where we talked

about Gunpowder milkshake and the the protege

right and We agreed we would like to see a sequel

to the protege However, we said in that episode

that we understand that it is a standalone film

It does not need a sequel Whereas I believe at

some point unless information has changed I have

not looked it up as as as we're talking here

I believe gunpowder milkshake is supposed to

get a sequel and I believe at the time we were

like why It was okay. It wasn't. That was a film

that was more obsessed with creating a world.

True. Creating a property. Yeah. Rather than

telling a good story. And as much as I love the

actresses involved, I felt that it didn't justify

it. It didn't tell us a story that justified

us wanting to return to this world. Yep. So my

thing with Batman, I agree with you, and I've

said this before the, and I don't say this to

be disrespectful, but I've said this before this

whole thing happened, where the whole argument

of Black Lives Matter, all lives matter, okay?

I'm not even gonna, like, I don't even, whatever,

Black Lives Matter, period, end of story. But

I have been saying what you have also been saying

is that every generation of whatever version

of the thing that you like, all of that matters.

Just because Christopher Nolan rebooted it and

did something new with it does not mean you can't

go back and laugh your ass off at Arnold Schwarzenegger

in a freeze suit, even though it was stupid as

hell. Like, it doesn't replace what already come

before it. So my thing with the Batman, I...

I don't like the Riddler as a serial killer on

basis without without seeing it. I don't I don't

like that I don't I don't like the look of the

character but seeing the trailers seeing how

I Want to say it's more red than than dark because

it's very crimson red The the posters the this

that and I think the reason why this film is

happening now is because the Batman film world

needs a 1989 kick in the teeth like, you know,

now like what happened in 1989 with the Tim Burton

movie. Like Batman on film needs something more.

And I think, I don't know. Let's go back to 1989

for a second. Sure. Okay. The reason that Batman

took everybody by surprise was because we hadn't

seen Batman, right? We've seen him on we see

him occasionally on television Because they were

to Hanna Barbera Blends pilots for a live -action

super friend show. Yeah But other than that,

I think we saw a back -to -the -back cave Which

was a TV theory a TV show about Adam West and

Burt Ward teaming up to do something. Right.

We hadn't seen a live action Batman. On a regular

basis in over 15 years, over 25 years, actually,

because let's say 60. Yeah, about 20, 20 plus

years. Yeah. So we when we miss and we looked

at it and go, hey, we missed this character.

This character is cool. What else you got? The

thing is is that this reboot is coming so, because

remember if it wasn't for the pandemic, we would

have seen this in 2020. True. This reboot is

coming so fast on the heels of the last reboot.

See, I don't know what it is, but I don't feel

that way because the last reboot to me was 2012.

I think that Batman v Superman was more of a

Batman film than a Superman film Right. Yeah,

I agree with that. So that that's 2016 Well,

okay. Yes. Yes, you're right. You are right.

It was 2016. Here's my thing and this is a long

-running joke with me here on on my podcast network

is that I remember specifically watching stuff

at Comic Con 2011 or 2012 saying, oh, by the

way, Batman V Superman is coming. It's coming.

It's coming. We promise it's coming. Well, that's

another problem, which is that the whole aggressive

hype machine. Yeah. Where we are we are supposedly

we're kind of bullied by the studios into doing

their work for them. By. teasing things out well

far too early in advance um And I think like

this because we have like I said we have had

Matt Robert Pattinson Matt Reeves Super Batman

in our head in some form or another since about

2018 right it has been in our head because Warner

Brothers won't let you forget it and It's almost

going to be a relief when that comes out. Let

me get to the aspirational figure part. Just

like you use context, my context is I suffer

from mental illness. I had bipolar type D, B

all my life. And I have something called explosive

mood disorder. And that was angry Tom. to the

point where I now refer to him as that other

guy. Right. So Batman is a person who has a child,

suffered a tremendous trauma. Right. He saw his

parents killed in front of him. He had the worst

case of PTSD and on top of that was now responsible

for the Wayne fortune. Right he has never Ever

even though Leslie Tompkins kind of took care

of him for a while Oh, he had a therapist during

the Alan Grant Norm Brie Fogel run for a while

who turned out to become a member of checkmate

He's never addressed his post -traumatic is PTSD

yeah he has never instead he has taken all this

money that he has been given and put it into

this revenge fantasy and gets dressed up and

picks up other people just as ill as he is instead

of dealing with his own hurt right and yeah i

said it guys i said it this is not an aspirin

this is not like superman Yes, or Superman Superman

is the immigrant experience, you know, no matter

how much How much people who are who wear the

red hats of stupidity? Want to say otherwise

Superman is about the internet. It's about somebody

coming from far away to our country and Going

going going up to us and going. Hey Thanks a

lot for giving me a home. Yeah Here is what I

can do for you. How can I help you in return?

Yeah, that's Superman. That is why that's why

Superman can question America, United States

policies when when they're wrong. Yeah, which

people don't like because they think Superman

like Captain America should be helped Captain

America. Yeah, well, right. He should be questioned.

He should question stuff and Mark Grunwald made

one of his his masterpieces Because he got tired

of people saying why doesn't cap kill? The whole

cap no more arc was just because he got so many

letters from people asking them to let no Yeah,

no. Cap is America in that he is the embodiment

of the second chance. Exactly. As such, if he

encounters a villain and defeats him, he's going

to treat them with respect and he's not going

to kill them. He's going to send them off into

the penal system, which back in 1960 we thought

was for rehabilitation. He's going to try to

find a way to redirect their anger. This is a

man who took three supervillains, who after all

of his friends in the Avengers left, agreed to

take under his wing three known criminals and

turned them into some of the greatest heroes

who ever lived. This is not a... It's like, I've

always said, think about Steve Rogers is he will

always give you a fair shake. Yep. He has the

right to say, I don't believe in what you're

saying, but he will never, he will always give

a fair chance. He is not a killer. We have people

who think the Punisher is an aspirational figure,

where even the Punisher says, I'm not an aspirational

figure, you know? Yep. John Berenthold saying,

fuck you all, take my symbol off your fucking

pick -em -up trucks. Yeah, that's just... Once

again, much props for John Berenthold for speaking

the truth. Yeah, absolutely. But anyway, continue,

I'm sorry. I've always felt that... Okay, same

thing. I can't relate to Dick Grayson's... origin

like circus boy becomes sidekick I can't relate

to that but Dick Grayson has characteristics

that I feel are more in line with how I feel

like for me like you were saying earlier it all

comes down to your moral compass and how on point

on point or skewered your moral compass is you

know Do I wish I could win the lottery? Absolutely.

Am I gonna go out and rob a bank because I need

to, you know, pay my rent? Hell no. I know the

difference between right and wrong and I've always

said that Batman is a legend that no one will

ever or should ever live up to because Batman

is the character that is so fucked up and like

you've already said didn't really look into his

own mental health. I mean, I kind of get the

main point of it where it's like, oh, my parents

got murdered, and I'm going to, I'm going to

quote, I believe it's - Make sure no other parent,

no other child has to go through this again.

Yeah, so yeah, so it's basically Kevin Conroy's

version in, you know, one of the DC Animated

Universe TV series. You grabbed power. And with

that power, we've made a world where no eight

-year -old boy will ever lose his parents because

of some punk with a gun. Right. Or whatever kind

of thing. So I get that part of it, but the rest

of it, that meant too mentally fucked up for

anyone to want to aspire to be. If I wanted to

aspire to be that fucked up, I'd be in a, I wouldn't

be a podcaster. I'd be in a mental institution

crawling up the walls with the rest of the spider

people. Oh, let's be honest. You shouldn't be

like... I know that there are some people who

will say, oh, but I look at Batman as being the

only sane person in an insane world. No. I mean,

I agree that the world is insane, but he is...

I would say Barbara Gordon would be the most

sane person in an insane world, but that's just

me. Actually, one of the things I like about

the Dick Grayson Bruce Wayne dynamic as they

started developing it in the 80s and 90s and

resulting in one of my favorite moments in the

Grant Morrison run, which is when Dick took over

the mantle and Damian was Robin. is that he was

a counterweight. Dick was the person that kept

him grounded. Dick was the person who made sure

he didn't cross that line. And it worked when

he was Batman and Damien was Robin because it

was the inverse. Whereas you had this kid who

was basically told to kill from a little bitty

baby. and you had Dick going, no, no, let me

show you how it's really done and let's have

fun doing this. And showing him another way,

another way of living. And that's one of the

things I liked about that particular run, but

yeah, I don't hate Batman. I just don't understand

why, I think that he needs to, just like the

Daleks in Doctor Who. I don't wanna see the Daleks

every fucking year. Thank you very much. They

become They don't become threatening or as back

in the 70s where you had a you had an epic six

episode Stereo called Genesis of the Daleks And

then we didn't see him again see them again for

like five years Right, and it's like so when

they came back it was a big fucking deal. Yeah

It's okay to let things rest people. It's okay.

Also do acknowledge that some things are finite

that maybe there shouldn't be a fourth Matrix

film That maybe um, so those first three Star

Wars movies were kind of fine on their own Yeah,

it's just that and if you're going to to let

them grow, you've got to let them grow. You can't

say when Rian Johnson comes up with these new

ideas and these new directions we can go. No,

we don't want that. We don't like the fact that

Luke Skywalker doubted himself. He's a human

being. Of course he would doubt himself. I doubt

myself every day as a 41 almost 42 year old person

and I am nobody I am implies that You know Luke

Skywalker is a normal person who is embarrassed

by the fact that that he is he's expected to

be this icon Yeah, and is not happy is not proud

of everything. He did. Yeah That's that's real

life people He's not supposed to be some godly

creature and but no, but we had to have we had

to have I mean remember remember that the idiot

who is trying to get a petition together To remake

the last Jedi. Yes I saw that like for a half

a second I read like two lines about that story

and I'm like, nope don't even just it's gonna

be whatever is made is going to be made and We

as fans, we should approach it like, you know,

maybe with some like, okay, you hear, I'm just

going to use it as an example. I'm not trying

to harp on this. Right now we only have the premise.

We don't have the full plot of the Batman. During

his second year of fighting crime, Batman pursues

the Riddler, a serial killer who targets elite

Gotham City citizens. He uncovers corruption

that connects his own family during the investigation

and is forced to make new allies to catch the

Riddler and bring the corrupt to justice. Okay,

that's a premise of what this movie is going

to be. Might that change or had that change throughout

any of that that, you know, production, whatever,

who knows, whatever. we've seen trailers we've

seen whatever the thing of it is is the story

could always change however we the fans we the

people who may or may not want to watch this

you know we shouldn't you know go to any creator

and say oh i'm not going to be your your your

fan unless you change it to the way i want it

or unless you put A long time ago there was there

was a series of books by a writer named Gregory

McDonald based on a character or newspaper reporter

called Fletch and They made two films about the

character with check case. Yep. I think very

late 80s early 90s. Yes Fletch and Fletch lives

Right. Now, there was a time when McDonald was

being interviewed and they asked him, how did

you feel about the way they ruined your books?

And McDonald said, they haven't ruined my books.

They're right up there. Yeah. Here's the thing,

guys. If something comes out from a franchise,

first off, you have permission to stop loving

a franchise. I know it's hard. I know that the

way that the pop culture machine is going now

is to make sure that you are not just identifying

with your favorite brands. You are your favorite

brands. But it is possible to say, this is like

I did with the new Doctor Who around 2013. And

I said, this is obviously not for me. And I walked

away. I still love Doctor Who, but I recognize

that new who is not for me. It is okay to have

said after The Last Jedi, okay, this is not for

me and walk away. You don't want to walk away.

You want to hold your childhood to your chest.

And there's nothing wrong with being a child.

What's the point of being grown up if you can't

act childish every once in a while? Exactly.

But you have permission to franchise. And you

have a permission to say, OK, that entry didn't

work for me. So I'm going to kind of not pretend

it doesn't exist. Yeah. You know, it's like,

you know, eight, eight, well, nine years ago

now, nine years ago. in I think it was episode

19. One of my early episodes of my comic book

podcast, The Pull Bag, my buddy Ryan and I reviewed

Fraction's Hawkeye. Back then, nine years ago

in 2013, I wasn't really feeling it because the

way it was said to me or the way that I understood

it was supposed to be was Hawkeye on his day

off away from the Avengers kind of thing and

I just wasn't I just I had a negative opinion

about the book I just didn't like it X number

of years later I am rereading it and I am enjoying

it maybe that's because I enjoy the Disney Plus

series I don't know I mean that's another thing

yeah you don't like it right now but that doesn't

mean you're not gonna like it in the future doesn't

mean you're not you're going to appreciate it

you're not going to appreciate it in the future

exactly exactly um i i don't like star trek but

we did an episode of better in the dark where

i looked at all the star trek movies and you

know what i gained a respect for that franchise

i i learned to appreciate about that franchise

by taking that journey with derrick yeah and

the thing is i remember watching Star Trek the

motion picture when I was a kid and watching

it in 2000 2011 and having very different opinions

of that film Yeah, it's something now You don't

have Just don't pay attention to it. If you feel

like coming back to it every once me after a

couple of years come back maybe You'll have a

new appreciation. Don't start immediately trying

to kick things out Yeah, I am one of those people

who and it's just the way I grew up I guess My

mom smoked all my life. She smoked cigarettes.

That's all she's I mean when she was younger

before she had me I'm sure she did other things

but After I was born during my lifetime. My mother

smoked her cigarettes her entire life I never

ever wanted to smoke cigarettes. When I was a

kid in the 80s, we had, you know, the dare program

and all of that and everything else and just

say no to drugs and McGruff the crime dog and

everything else. I have never ever smoked a cigarette

or anything. Have I had alcohol? Yes. However,

I do not drink alcohol on a regular basis. I

don't even drink it when I go out half the time,

if I go out half the time. Like alcohol and I

just don't it's just not my thing So the thing

the whole reason why I'm saying this is because

you grow up that way in a certain way that you

are You know, it's ingrained to you that this

isn't your thing. This isn't specifically to

drugs and alcohol But my point is because I I

was not into all of that Most of the time I'm

not gonna be into a show based around Drugs or

alcohol and it took me three different watch

throughs to actually Understand and enjoy Breaking

Bad one two. This is my own private Tomas Island.

I will not be harassed bitch Okay, because initially

my thought was oh he's just you know, at least

in the first season. He's just making meth to

make meth I know it's also to do other things

and I've done whole podcasts about this and whatever

but that was my initial thought and I'm just

like whatever and then I went again going to

the whole thing that we were talking about here

where as people we can change our minds. Not

everyone is against new code. Things that are

living evolve. They evolve emotionally. They

evolve mentally. And if they're around long enough,

they evolve physically. When I was born, it was

still acceptable to separate people by race in

large portions of this country. It was, you know,

there was a lot of evolution between the time

I was born and now. The problem with a lot of

people today is that they want to erase that

evolution. And because it's like, that's why,

for example, for some reason, we have a geriatrics,

a geriatocracy. in our government. We have where

theoretically, like if we put term limits in

the Senate and Congress, we would always have

new ideas coming in. New ways to grow our society.

Instead of the same people who've been there

for 20, 30, 40 years, who just care about keeping

their seats and being rich and fat babies. Yeah,

I said it. But my point being, we have to allow

anything if we want it to thrive just to progress.

It is the nature of life. You don't get stuck

as a baby when you come out of the womb. You

progress and become a toddler, then you become

a child, then you become a preteen, then you

become a teen. The same goes for intellectual

properties. Some things deserve to be retired

after a while and some things need to leave the

stage to make room for the next generation thing.

It's funny you frame it in the wording of retire

because I just saw a news article this morning

that everyone's favorite quarterback is Supposedly

going to be announcing his retirement from Tampa

Bay. Oh May I just say I Thought about you earlier

the earlier this month I Did I thought about

it early this month when I was watching the the

Patriots? Oh, yeah Playoff game and I'm like

I remembering the last time you and I had a discussion

about football and I said I did not you and Somebody

actually said we should try to convince Tom Brady

to come here to the Jets. I'm like, no. I don't

want his ass anywhere sticking up the joint.

Him and his Giselle bunching, stinking crotch.

Have I told you? I think I've told you about

this. There is a 2004 film called Taxi. Yes.

It's with Queen Latifah, Jimmy Fallon, and Giselle

Bündchen plays one of the bad. You and I have

to watch. I almost want us to do a live commentary

watching that movie because seriously, not that

I want. I'm very happy that you are past the

other guy, but I kind of want the other guy to

come out about the Giselle Bündchen character

in that movie because I'm sure she's a nice person.

It just so happens she's married to a jerk. Oh,

God. There is to it. You're married. Cheating

jerk. And I don't know I don't know what you're

like you could be you could be just because he

is you could be a nice person But you are definitely

married to a jerk. Yes Going back to your retirement

thing and things, you know, I will put it in

the way that that you know Master splinter put

it in the turtles, you know strike hard and fade

away without a trace Right. I was looking up

fletch because I wanted to remember Fletch and

Fletch Lives and whatever. In the main Wikipedia

article for Fletch, it says the legacy and history

of the franchise, even though there were only

two films. There were only two films. There was

a third film in development for a while. It's

been in development hell. Yeah, it's been in

development hell since 1995. Yeah, that was supposed

to be Kevin Smith. Right. The last most recent

thing on here for Wikipedia, and it does cite,

what is it cite? It cites, oh, boston .com. John,

okay. John Hamm is filming a reboot of Fletch

around Boston. In July of 2020, it was announced

that a reboot was back on at Miramax. Actor John

Hamm is spearheading the project as both star

and producer with Greg Mottola set to direct.

Well, Miramax needs something to distract me.

That that they were run for most of their lives

by two vile sex pests Yes, I mmm. Yeah, I don't

even remember half of Miramax's Like I remember

Ben Affleck or Matt Damon making a joke about

Miramax in one of their films, but I don't remember

My favorite thing to remind people of is, as

much as we give her flack now, and rightfully

so because she's a little bit out there, Cork

came up right back in the 90s when she wrote

Celebrity Skin, which is basically her way of

saying, stay away from these guys. Yeah. Which

is why it felt so weird having that song at the

end of Captain Marvel. Yes. Yeah. I'm hearing

this song and I'm like, you don't know what the

song is, do you? No. It was, it was, it was just

like, it was like, well, it's a female lead vocal

and it's really upbeat. Yeah. But it's a dark

song. Yeah. Very dark. And so just looking at

this and I'm like, wow. Okay. Now I remember

just looking at their major film series, Hellraiser,

Children of the Corn, Three Colors, The Crow,

Viewisk Universe, okay, I remember Miramax now.

This was a pretty big, you know, Miramax and

the Weinstein Group were a big, big indie player,

particularly in the 90s, the 80s and the 90s.

And it just so happened, you know, when Rose

McGowan started talking about things like, I'm

not surprised here. And now I understand why

there never was that Barbarella that they were

planning for you to be doing with Roberto Rodriguez.

Which I would love. I don't know about anybody

else. I'm down for that. I love me some Rose

McGowan. I'm glad that people are speaking out

against slime. You should be allowed just to

speak out against slime. Whether it's the Weinstein

brothers or Josh Whedon. Just be careful. Don't

just start calling people slime when there's

no reason to call them slime. Make sure you have

the evidence. Poor Josh Whedon. Here's the thing.

We're giving you a chance to put your side of

the story. I think he wanted to destroy his career.

I honestly think he wanted to dynamite that bridge.

I don't know. You know, I don't know I can't

speak for the man I can only speak because for

me and I've said that again For those of you

who are listening to the sound of my voice I

have said this for the past 14 years that I have

been podcasting I have always been attached to

the fictional worlds and enjoying what is created

Versus the you know paying attention because

again growing up when we grew up separating artists

from the art. And for me, I was very much into

Buffy fandom back when Buffy was on the air first

run. I was part of one of the very, very early

Buffy kind of music group and like wrote on their

website. And I had the entire seven seasons on

DVD. Yep. And back in 2012, 2013, I went to revisit

them and do the whole thing. And watching them

from a bit of a distance, I felt really uncomfortable.

Yeah. I was never, Buffy was what? 2006, I think.

Okay. So I was never like, I know this is going

to sound silly, but it's only because I saw it

on cable at the time. I was Christie Swanson,

Buffy. I was I was Pee Wee Herman Vampire, Buffy.

And it was just a one -off. I saw that film in

the theaters, though. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, folks,

we are old here. But my point is, I only saw

Buffy up until, I want to say it was the end

of the second season or the end of the third

season. Whenever they graduate high school, whenever

the graduation two -parter was. Okay. Best chase

villain they ever had in the mayor. The mayor

was amazing. The fourth season I did not care

for at all very much. The fifth season I liked,

but I think they should have ended it at the

fifth season. Because it ended with Buffy dying

and the last shot is of her tombstone saying

here lies Buffy servers She saved the world a

lot and I'm like, that's a perfect coda. Yeah,

that's that's a perfect ending. I only I only

watched it to the end of the third season Mm

-hmm, so faith was there because it was the whole

faith thing through the third season Angel was

still there and then the whole reason why I stopped

watching it after the third season was because

Buffy and her friends supposedly graduated high

school and they saved the world and then I followed

the man because I love angel I I was so annoyed

with Cordelia throughout the first three seasons

of Buffy. However, when she showed up on Angel,

I was like, okay, I can deal with you. I'm good.

And also, when you look at it now, given what

we know, Charisma Carpenter is going through.

Yes, yes, that's a whole other, yeah. A bunch

of props to her for being as professional as

she could be. Yes, absolutely given what she

went through. Yeah. Yeah, it's like I felt uncomfortable

Watching it back in 2012 and I ended up selling

off my my seven volumes Because I felt there

were there was something wrong. I found it very

weird that it was always the women who had to

die Right, whatever. They wanted to make a major

statement. They killed off another female character

Yeah, and that made me uncomfortable and Now

that I this is all coming out and I remember

being slightly uncomfortable watching dollhouse

I never so where my Joss Whedonism begins and

ends is Whatever he did with Marvel, which was

Avengers. I whatever other Avengers things and

to Right. Yeah, so For me where it begins and

ends with Joss Whedon is Avengers and Angel.

I never went past Angel. Right. So I've never

seen Dollhouse. I watched some of Firefly. Did

not enjoy it at all. That's right. I said it.

I thought it was boring and stupid and sexist.

Watched Dollhouse. More because of Elijah Disko

than anything not anything like oh, what was

her name? There was a oh The Australian actress

not Olivia Dabo No, no, then it was yeah, obviously

Elijah Disko was the was the star. Yeah There

was an Australian actress who was a who is a

blonde and had kind of Asian figure this out

because now it's stuck in my head. She showed

up in an episode of Torchwood, the last season

of Torchwood, which was awful. And she ended

up, she ended up having her her basically they

tried to kill her by having her neck broken.

Uh huh. And the last time we see her is the character

and her head is like squished around the back

as she's trying to get away. What is the character

name? Oh, I don't remember the character's name.

Is it Sierra? It might be Sierra. I'm trying

to research this so we can figure this out. Three

of the female characters are other dollhouse

characters. Olivia, what's her name, is the administrator.

Can you see my screen? Okay. Okay. Yes, that's

who she is. I like her. But yes, it is. That's

Jill Lachman. She's Australian, but I think she...

She was born in Kathmandu to a Tibetan mother

and an Australian father. Right. And the funny

thing was, is that they made her have an American

accent throughout, except when they did the episode

of her backstory. She started speaking with her

normal accent. I'm like, I think she sounds,

I think she's better with the normal accent.

I like her accent. I, you know, I, um, but yes,

yes. I, I, I like Dyche and Lackman quite a bit,

but anyway, enough. I am a horny old man. I know

this. Hey, you know what? As, as evil as she

was, I can not get over. Olivia as Nicole Wallace

in Criminal Intent, because that accent, holy

crap. Oh, well, part of the reason I am so, I

brush so hard on Karen Gillan, and I always have,

is because she has that Scottish accent, that

thick Scottish accent. Yep. And one of the reasons

I love Shirley Manson from Garbage. Beside being

a great vocalist, she's a redhead from Scotland

with a thick Scottish accent. I have a very,

I have a very narrow fetish for some reason.

He has a very specific type, folks, and that's

okay because we all do. You're a redhead with

a thick Scottish accent. I'm sorry. I'm gonna

have to start charging you a dating service podcast

fee I Know I know and the funny thing is where

this is ended up being kind of I want to take

it to a slightly different place So my wife my

ex -wife is what I actually have to call her

due to the government listening in and whatever

if they do because we were I've told this story

before and I think I've told you all fair Due

to Social Security and all of that Karen and

I had to get divorced in 2019. It is what it

is. Whatever. But anyway, she passed away in

November of 2021 unexpectedly and There are a

lot of media items that I have watched or listened

to or liked my entire life That I look at in

a whole new way now that she is no longer here

anymore there like literally I will be It happened

about a month ago. I was in the shower I had

some music playing and one of my favorite songs

from one of my favorite bands popped up. Oh I

had to basically brace myself against the shower

wall from falling over crying because the song

made me think of my deceased wife kind of thing

and there are so many things I am seeing in various

pieces of media that I've enjoyed over the years

now like You know you take To that and I it's

only because it's you Tom. Yeah, you take 2001

serendipity with John Cusack Kate Beckinsale

Yes, yes, you know I look at that and I'm like

Yeah, I wish I had another serendipitous moment

with you Anyways, I went to that restaurant once

that serendipity. I've had it Is it good I assume

it would be They don't they don't fuck around

Yeah, but it's glass yep, so anyway, but it's

one of those things where Certain things now

hit me because it's it's still so it hasn't even

been a year since she passed, you know So it's

only been a few months and so certain things

now hit me in a much different way than they

would have hit me before and it's just way too

Emotionally, you know, you want to talk about

mental health and I've always said if I need

to take medication, I will take medication. I've

always said that I just need to be by myself

kind of thing. It's not that I'm not taking care

of my mental health. It's just that when I'm

on whatever medication that was prescribed in

the past, it made me feel, like you were saying

earlier, how you thought it was gonna make you

just feel lethargic and not necessarily your

self anymore. And that's in the past how it's

made me feel and whatever. And I more so have

to push all of the emotions down because I have

to deal with my living situation, or a lack thereof.

I have to figure out what the hell is going on

in my life. Have I grieved since she passed?

Yes, I absolutely have. I've cried more in the

last four to five months than I have in the entire

42 years I've been on this damn planet. But it

just... When I see certain things and whatever,

even though we only had four years together,

it just hits me completely different now. Right.

I don't know. It's just a thing. So let's see.

Not that we're going to be here for three. Go

ahead. What? OK. There is one more major element

because I know we're already on two hours. That's

OK. But there's one more, but we knew we were

gonna be talking for a while. Oh, yeah, of course

we did. One more major thing that's been taking

me off lately. Okay. It's one sentence. Why can't

you let people enjoy things? This has been used

on me a couple of times lately. Most recently

when I made a comment about how I was not surprised

that the live action cowboy bebop which I thought

should never have been made, got cancelled after

one season. And my feeling about that was that

Cowboy, which is my third favorite TV show of

all time, not just cartoon, not just anime, television

programs of all time, number three behind the

British Avengers series from the 60s and Crime

Story from the 80s. is that I felt that it was

something that was created in a very unique circumstance,

in a very specific medium. And it would not translate

to another medium. I mean, this was a show where

literally episodes were being made right up to

their release date. They were literally finishing

episodes and then sending them off to the network

for air back in Japan when it was first air.

So there's a certain fluidity to it and a certain

kind of attitude towards it that's very unique.

And more importantly, it is a complete story.

It ends definitively. there's no way our main

character is coming back after that so trying

to convert it from and there are characters that

are very distinctly using um anime conventions

in their body language and their design that

would not translate to live action And so trying

to take this finite story that is based a lot

of improvisational jazz, and it has all these

different elements of noir and science fiction

and retrofuturism all mixed together. It would

not work trying to make an open -ended TV series

in live action. But you did it. What would I

mention? That I I'm not surprised when I said,

you know, I I'm not surprised it got canceled.

I got Why can't you let people enjoy things?

Well, so Okay, so did you enjoy it? Did you enjoy

what you saw of the Netflix cowboy b -battle

or did you not enjoy it? I did not enjoy it Okay.

Okay. You want to know? Okay. I'm gonna tell

you some reasons people why I do not enjoy Okay,

but wait, wait a second. Hang on Okay, you're

you're saying what you said and then this person

is saying to you Why won't you let people enjoy

things? Yes That to me saying is shut the fuck

up That to me is like me telling you or telling

anyone that I am a fan of scrappy -doo because

scrappy -doo Gave me the courage to stand up

to certain things in my younger youth and my

younger life Does that take away your enjoyment

of Shaggy and Scooby stuffing their faces running

from ghosts? No, it shouldn't No, here's the

thing once this comes back to the fact that I

think the the nostalgia weaponizing complex Has

kind of brainwashed us into instead of identifying

With you know using the love of something in

pop culture has something that enhances us. They've

convinced us that it's what defines us. You can't

just like Star Wars. You have to live Star Wars.

When somebody says, doesn't go into lockstep

with you and says, I don't like, I didn't like

that thing. Like I did, like I did with a what

if, a what if was really poor. I am the watcher.

I am your guide through these vast new realities

Follow me and ponder the question What if you

are gonna it's okay, but you and I are gonna

disagree on that. So let's look so but overall

I I love first episode the Captain Carter episode,

but then again, I Seriously stand for Haley Apple

has that character. Yes. Yes. I really kind of

like the episode with Dr. Strange, we just showed

you how dark things could get. However, it was

also the first time I said, uh -oh, this is an

overarching narrative. It turned into that, and

I kind of liked that. However, as of this recording,

sadly for me, because I know you're probably

not going to jump up and down for joy, But sadly

for me, they have removed what if from the 2022

slate. So I don't know if we are going to get

that second season that we were probably going

to get. And well, that's a surprise. I didn't

know that. I thought they were going to protect

the season. They were supposed to. There's nothing

wrong with the idea of an anthology set in the

MCU. along the lines of the anthology that we

had for many years in the Marvel Comics universe,

as opposed to the cinematic universe. It's just

that by making it a linear story, and there were

certain episodes I thought were just uninteresting.

I thought that the Black Panther has Star -Lord

episode. was self -congratulatory. I really hated

the Thor comedy episode. And as someone who just

does not like zombies, I did not care for the

Marvel zombies episode. Okay, I will sort of

agree with you with that because the simple fact

that I was never a fan of the Marvel zombies

thing, the comic thing. However, because of it...

being the MCU, I didn't not dislike it. I didn't

love it. I'm still not because in general, I'm

not a zombie person at all. Like I'm just just

not my thing. But like the murder mystery they

did. Yeah, killing off the Avengers, where I

was like, I wasn't sure what to make of it. But

the thing is, they made it into the in episode

six. We had the Watcher throwing punches at Ultimate

Ultron. Yep. I was like, you've lost what makes

this series interesting. It is not about people

punching each other. It's about exploring paths

not taken. Yeah. And so, but. So anyway, that's

another one where I got Why don't you why don't

you let people like you know enjoy things? Do

I say you in fact there have been several times

today We said something that you like something

that I don't but I know I said What if what have

I said like what you like, but don't be a dick

Yeah, and I'm not being a dick about any of it.

I don't think I mean No, even if somebody gets

in your face and says that they hate your favorite

franchise, that does not in any way invalidate.

No, and it doesn't affect me. If that's their

emotion about my favorite franchise or my favorite,

that's their problem. That's not my problem.

Much the same way I tell you all, get rid of

guilty pleasure from your language. You like

something, you fucking like it. You stand up

for it. You hold the press you you proudly Show

your love of that thing. Yep. You is absolutely

Acceptable it is more than positive for you to

say this thing is not good But I love it there

are films where I will I will hold up and say

they're terrible But they're they're fun to watch

and they're it's and if there's something exciting

and there's a definite sense of what the fuck

are we do it that makes it that makes it a really

interesting and exhilarating watch so When somebody

says to to mean when I say I didn't like this

Star Wars thing or I didn't like the Cowboy Bebop

live -action And I will tell you if you want

me. I will tell you For why I didn't like Sure

Okay. Okay. First off they They took two characters

in the in the original that were used very sparingly.

Mm -hmm Vicious who was like the main villain.

Yeah And Julia who is kind of like this this

lost love of spikes Okay. And they're used very

sparingly. And as such, in the original, Vicious

is kind of a force of nature. You get scared

when you realize Vicious is around. Okay. They

made them into regular characters. And I think,

again, Cowboy Bebop, the original anime or the

original... the original context of the, was

pointed towards a certain audience base, whereas

a lot of these Netflix things, it's kind of like

the Transformers live action stuff. That's to

try to get the every person, the everyday mainstream

audience to see if it can make money. And that's

- Come back to that point. Yep. major studios

are not doing cowboy beep off the TV series or

or men in black International or I'm trying to

think of another recent attempt Or like the Halloween

Halloween kills hills trilogy Because they love

this property so much Yeah, they're doing it

because they they think they can Convince you

to put more money into their coffers. That's

all Yeah, and I just want to say this briefly

because I think it goes back to your your idea

of having Batman go away for five years or so

I honestly think there would be no DC Comics

left in five years if Batman went away because

sadly he is their biggest seller well remember

You remember Darwin Cook, right? Yeah Darren

Cook amazing artist. Yep, and storyteller very

stylized very 1950s Yep, I artwork Darren Cook

Was always and I kind of I kind of agree with

him on this a proponent of what the big two need

to do is Stop everything stop the continuity

is dead Mm -hmm and then start from the beginning

again. And in fact, the reason why Darwin Cooke

didn't work for Marvel outside of a handful of

stories for Spider -Man titles is because he

brought this pitch to Axel Alonso for a subgroup,

basically an imprint called Marvel Pictures.

and the idea was they would start from, it would

be all ages, it would start from zero again,

and it would be entry point comics. And Axel

Alonso then said, okay, get to work on this,

Darwin, and then went ahead and did it himself.

Oh no. Yes. Axel Alonso's a jerk. Yeah. I never

liked actual lawns though and the same goes for

some of his buddies like Brian if my HBO went

out I have nothing to write about Azzarello.

There's a deep cut. Yeah, oh boy. Yeah, so I

think that there's some wisdom to that idea.

Yeah. Because the problem that They are saying

is the problem That the marvels and the seats

are saying is the problem Which is that there's

so much continuity people don't know how to start

people are it's like Sure, give him a that was

the idea behind the ultimate line until that

went totally bug fuck. Yeah, it did Totally yeah,

it's like well part of that is Mark Millar's

fault. It was also a jerk Mark No, well, Mark,

it's sad because I used to be a Mark Millar champion

because he wrote some exceptional Superman comics

in the 90s. Yeah. That showed me that he understood

Superman very well. And so I defended him. And

then he goes and just starts doing things like,

oh, yeah, Quicksilver, Quicksilver and all the

rich, they're totally fucked. Know that Okay

We don't want to have we don't want to have the

president strip naked on the White House lawn

in our all is supposedly all age is comic Yeah,

yeah Let people enjoy stuff when you're in. It's

one thing if you're referring to a little film

like if somebody came up being attacked. The

return of Captain Invincible. Really insane superhero

musical featuring Alan Arkin and Christopher

Lee set in Australia. Which is not good on any

level. But I love it unconditionally. It's very

racist. But I love it unconditionally. If somebody

got in my face about that, and I said, just let

people enjoy stuff, it's different. Because that's

something. But when I'm talking about Marvel,

the present Marvel Cinematic Universe stuff,

or I'm talking about Star Wars, or I'm talking

about That Star Trek has become under Alex Kurtzman.

Fuck you, Alex Kurtzman. I think my buddy Steve

Megatron, who is the co -creator of the GCRN,

would probably agree with you at this point on

that point, because that Star Trek universe stuff

that's going on, that's not Star Trek. I'm a

kid Steve Steve is the die -hard Trekkie I am

on the outskirts like hanging by a thread on

the it because I grew up as a kid watching Next

Generation I watched DS 9 I watched some of these

things I've tried to watch the classic show and

the classic show is not my my bag but you know

it is what it is and that's fine but like Man,

some of the things that Star Trek has produced

lately in the last five years or so. My mother

is a hardcore traitor. In that she watched the

original show on NBC when it was coming out.

She had the biggest crush on Spock. Okay? She

loved Star Trek and she watched She watched The

Next Generation, and she watched Space Nine,

and she watched Voyager, and she watched Enterprise.

She got halfway through the first season of Discovery

and then basically put the box that she bought

onto the to -be -resold bin and saying, that's

not for me. However, she loved the Orville. Yeah,

everybody loves the Auroville. That feels great.

You just have to ignore all the fart jokes. Yep.

Because it's actually good science. It's what

Star Trek is supposed to be, which is hard science

fiction that deals with social issues. Yeah.

And what we're getting with the Kurtzman stuff

is action poo. Yeah. That's what they call it.

They shouldn't call it Star Trek, they should

call it Star Poop. That's right, I said, come

out. This is from somebody who would gladly make

himself a slave to Michelle Yeoh, who loves Michelle

Yeoh so much. I can't watch it. Even though,

in my mind, one of the greatest female action

movie stars of all time, that i love watching

everything isn't it and that's not even enough

to yeah nope nope nope so so so if his greatest

female action star of all time you know actress

isn't enough to make him watch it then is it

really that great yeah that's why i wanted to

see gunpowder milkshake so much because it's

Michelle Yo, and it's Angela Bassett and It's

Carla Gugino. Yeah, it's Karen Gillan Remini.

Oh God, I just had the article pulled up. Yeah

anyway Chronicles, um, oh Linda Hamilton that

Linda Hamilton He was also in 300, and she...

Anyway, five female action stars. Lena Headey.

That's right, Lena Headey. Five female stars

who can handle an action extremely well, and

I was still dissatisfied with it. But that's

okay. And you liked it, but that's cool. Yeah,

and that's the thing, like, is our... I could

maybe make you look at it in a different light,

but you still can like it. You don't have to

say to me, just let people enjoy stuff. Like

what you like, don't be a dick about it. And

unfortunately, too much of fandom these days

has forgotten that second half, that statement.

Like somebody If somebody comes out and says

something about something I like I'll look at

it and be like, okay, that's your opinion. I

Cannot waste my time being a keyboard warrior

giving them every reason why they are Incorrect

in that feeling I gave that up a long time ago

because It's not like. And this isn't just geek

issues, folks, it's also every day. They're counting

on you getting so involved with the geek, with

the pop culture. That you're not going to notice

the real issue. Where our lives are being threatened.

So do not fall for their trap. They are counting.

on the fact that we're going to be so much more

interested in who's going to be playing who in

the MCU X -Men than what's going on with the

infrastructure bill or what's going on with voting

rights. Yeah. It's that impact on you personally.

Yeah. I mean... What would you like? Love it

to death! wear the t -shirt I have. I go out

in public with Cowboy Diva face masks on. Right?

Yep. Because I love this thing and I'm not ashamed

of it. Yep. But don't let your love of it distract

you from real -time issues that are endangering

it. Yeah. And don't Act as a gatekeeper, because

if you want your fandom to survive, you need

new people to come in. You can't say, oh, you

can't, dude, you don't know that. You think it's

bad hearing in geek culture. Try being a music

nerd. Oh, no, I'm on the outskirts of that, too,

a little bit, and I see. I have seen and I do

see, and it's just... Okay, I'll put it to you

this way try being a music nerd who actually

has for the last 20 something years at least

since 2000 loved Nickelback and all of the But

I respect you I was talking to somebody earlier

today, and they sent me a picture Elves and in

the background was a Taylor Swift poster and

I made a joke About about Taylor Swift and she

said I really love her I said and I respect your

right to love her I have very it's like I have

very conflicted opinions about her. Yeah, but

You get something Positive out of out of listening

to her. So I am a hundred percent behind you

liking her. Yeah, you know You know, I can dislike

something in your fandom and still wish you well.

Yeah, exactly. And appreciate that you are getting

positive energies out of that. Yeah. When I say,

oh, Rise of the Skywalker was bad. It was just

retrogressive. I'm not attacking you personally.

Yeah. If you you loved surprises kind of over

are you loved afterlife? Ghostbusters afterlife,

which we touched upon brief And it just worries

me in the future that we're gonna have more people

being Raised from the dead without their permission

I mean the fact that for example, apparently

there was George Romero wrote something on the

back of an envelope about a movie called Road

to the Dead and they're trying to develop it

into a movie. No! Oh, God, that's... There's

a reason why things end. There's a reason why

we end. Nothing is supposed to be forever. Yeah.

You know, it's like... For God's sakes, um...

Wes Raven. Wes Raven. felt very passionately

about, called Nightmare on Elm Street. And now

Freddy won't die. He only wanted to make the

one film. So New Line said, well, we're going

to make a sequel without you. And they made a

sequel without him. And then Wes said, can I

come back and finish it? And they said, sure.

Wes, you can finish it. And he made Dream Warriors.

He wrote the script and he had Chuck Russell

who's a great director directed and he thought

that was the end of it But no because that film

made so much money. They made more And then they

made Freddy Freddy's Dead Which only because

it is the least amount of horror in a film is

the only reason why I enjoy Freddy's Dead because

I was not I saw the first nightmare on Elm Street

As a kid, it freaked me the hell out, but, you

know, it is what it is. And Fred made a third

film, a third film in the series, which was The

New Nightmare, which I adore, as kind of a coda,

as kind of an epitaph. Yep. He never wanted Freddy

Krueger to survive beyond that first picture.

He resisted putting that last scene in the film.

And yet, The moment he died, his estate started

accepting outlines for a new film. Wes Craven

made two screen films and oversaw the third,

and that was it for him. Until Dimension said,

we are going to make one without you. We're going

to reboot this franchise that you created. and

made lots of money whether or not. So Wes said,

instead of doing a reboot, would you like a new

episode in the series? And the thing that's wonderful

about Scream 4 is basically Wes breaking Kevin

Williamson going, yeah, fuck y 'all. Exactly.

Yeah. Reboots suck. Nobody it's them branding

at the camera and it's a damn good film And once

again he dies Yeah, so I am looking at the film

franchise of nightmare and I do not like I was

not expecting to see any directors that I would

know on any of these sequels. Yeah. But like

literally, other than Wes Craven, which obviously

he's the dude, I don't know any of these other,

even the one that I like, I don't even know her.

Like I've never heard of her, ever. Let me go

through some of these guys. Jack Shoulder, who

did Freddy's Revenge. Yep. Excellent director,

amazingly excellent director, perhaps best known

for a science fiction film called The Hidden

with Kyle McLaughlin and Michael Norrie. But

he's primarily known as an action director. Okay.

Third was done by Chuck Russell. Chuck Russell

went on to do, of course, one of my favorite

horror film remakes of all time, 1988's The Blob.

Yep. which I prefer over the original. Oh, he

directed the mask in 94 and Eraser in 96. Okay,

I don't know him, but I know his work. Oh, his

work. Yes, so he's comfortable. He's comfortable.

Okay. Renny Harwood, who did full. Oh, of course.

Yes. Barely. Okay, yeah, I know Renny. Rich Harwood

still works today. Mm -hmm. Rene Harlan directed

a film with, of all people, Johnny Knoxville

and Jackie Chan. Yes, yes, he did. Which, not

very good, but... Oh, that's why, okay. I mean,

I'm looking at his work and I recognize things

like, you know, obviously Die Hard 2 and Cliffhanger

and Speechless and Cutthroat Island. It isn't

until I scroll down to... 2001 and I'm like,

oh right, that's why Driven with Stallone. I

know everyone does it. Either people don't know

about 2001's Driven or they hate it. Yeah. Then

after Renny Harlan, I forget who did Five. Five

was Stephen Hopkins. Oh, Stephen Hopkins! Stephen

Hopkins, Australian director, also directed Predator

2? He was the second unit director on Highlander

in 86. Let's see, did Predator 2? Oh, he did

Blown Away in 94. Okay. Yeah. The other interesting

thing I want to point out about Renny Harlan,

by the way, he was, I think, the second unit

director on a film called Roar. Are you familiar

with Roar? I don't think so. Roar is supposed

to be a comedy. It's actually one of the scariest

films ever made. Because it is a comedy about

a family that lives on a wildlife preserve of

lions. And they shot at a real preserve with

real lions. Melanie had her face ripped off.

What year did this come out? This was made in

the very late 70s, very early 80s. But Rene Harlan

actually almost had his scalp taken off. It was

meant to be a comedy. It was meant to promote

wildlife conservation, but it is terrifying.

And so many people, who was it? Kippy Hendren,

the star. Yep. And her leg broken by an elephant.

Yikes. So yeah, but anyway, enough of that digression.

Rachel Tulare, who did episode three, episode

six, she did two more theatrical films, one of

which is actually really good, called Tank Girl.

Yep. And she also did a film called Ghost in

the Machine. She is now perhaps best known for

being one of the more prolific directors on the

new Doctor Who. Oh, very cool. So these people

all have, in their own ways, interesting CVs.

Yeah, it's just that, OK, looking at their names,

though, OK, maybe, you know, I was a little out

of it on Renny Harlan because there are plenty

of things that I remember him from. But just

looking at all of these other names, like they're

foreign to me. And then I look at what they've

done, and I'm like, oh, OK, I know their work.

Again, it goes back to the whole thing of, I

know this song from this band, but I don't know

who the lead singer. You know what I mean? That

whole kind of separation of whatever. Whereas

I'm a bit of a music nerd, so generally if I

know a band. If I'm a fanatical about a band,

I know the the members I know. Yeah. But even

I can say sometimes that, you know, I mean, like,

for example, Fountains of Wayne is my favorite

band. And I expect most people to look at me

with a blank page. When I say that other people

that say, oh, the Stacey's mom, that's that's

the first thing I was going to say. Because it's

one of these things that they wrote all the they

wrote. I had five albums over there, 20 years.

Their lead, their main songwriter and bassist,

Adam Celestino, made a career out of writing

Power Pop songs for the movies. That thing you

do, that song is his. Half of the songs for the

Josie and the Pussycats. movie, which is amazing

people and I will fight you on it. Once again,

I love it. I'm not calling it a guilty pleasure.

It is a pleasure. Yeah, exactly. It is a pleasure

to watch and I will fight you if you if you try

to get in my face about that. Oh, no. Wow. That's

right. I remember that now. He died last year

from Covid. One of the first celebrities to die

of Covid. Yeah Okay, but the thing I'm not going

even though even if you say yeah, it's like 20

things where it's like, okay, we understand that

Stacey's mom Was their biggest mainstream hit

but he gets so much more in his life. Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, it's the same thing with

oh There are other bands like that where they

have one song that really sticks out But they've

done so much more. But yeah, but no fountains

of Wayne. They are an amazing group They were

and they were local boys. They were from New

Jersey That's why the band is named that but

a lot of the a lot of their songs are about the

New York, New Jersey area so Wait a minute. Wait

a minute. Wait a minute. His cousin is John Bernthal

Seriously reason not to mess with Adam Schlesinger's

cousin is the Punisher. That's cool. That's cool.

And I encourage people, if you like Power Pop,

to explore them. But I'm not going to - Yeah.

The Stacey's bomb guy, even though that hurts

me. See, okay, so yes, I agree with you. For

me, it's more like the whole Stacey's mom thing

is, oh, that's Fountains of Wayne. That's the

band. That's not. It's like if someone said to

me, 1986's Three Hearts and the Happy Ending

Machine is a Darryl Holland, John Oates album.

No. They went their separate ways. Darryl did

his own thing. John has done his own thing, you

know. So that's how I look at that. I don't look

at, if I hear fountains of - I want to get back

that in his way, even though he hasn't made a

lot of noise about it, Ringo may be the most

successful Beatle post -Beatles. Yeah, I mean

- You know, we look at - John and Paul has the

big stars, but the people who did the most with

the fame that they got are Ringo and George,

whereas George became a film producer. But anyway,

enough about Beatles, enough about other podcasts.

When are we going to talk about Fountains of

Wayne? Or I'm sure that there's other bands I

could bring up. I think it's just one of those

things that with with Fountains of Wayne and

When they when that came out it was huh? Here's

another here's another band Where most people

will go? Oh, it's that one song that the band

that did that one song And they're a lot more

complex than that, which is the bare naked ladies.

Oh, of course who I saw In in a tiny, tiny radio

studio, one morning when they were promoting

their first album, Gordon, way back when. Yep.

And the percussionist was using their suitcase.

Yeah. So, OK, bear with me, ladies. Most people

will just go, oh, yeah, it's the Chicken Song.

That song was from their fourth album. Yes, it

was. And they did two more albums after that

before they kicked Stephen Price out. Yes, they

did. For doing Coke and Disneyland. There is

a definite sea chain between the Stephen Price,

Bare Naked Ladies, which is kind of dark. Which

is funny, but also very dark and bitter and I

mean my favorite song one of my favorite songs

of theirs is called pinch me Which is about depression.

Yeah Which you know, even though they tried to

put it as like it's one week to know it's it's

a song about how it feels To be depressed when

you feel so dead inside But you can't communicate

it. Yeah to other people um, and when Stephen

Price left And Ed Robinson took over as head

songwriter and vocalist Yeah, there is a definite

change in all of the albums since then I haven't

liked Yeah, because it's much more pop like folk

pop and that dark edge has disappeared Yeah,

say people You know who like the Ed Robinson

stuff You're stupid for doing that. Yeah. No,

it's just in my opinion has somebody who was

with them From their very first single in America

grade 9 First single in America. I love that

single. Yeah from from yo Squeezing myself into

a tiny little radio studio at 6 30 a .m. So that

I could I could see them perform acoustically

live and they performed Brian Wilson And that

was like the first time I ever heard Brian Wilson.

Yeah you know it's like okay i just think that

they had to evolve and unfortunately they involved

something i didn't like that's what happens sometimes

um the sad thing is is that most of their oh

god really yeah wow they have only had one number

one hit which is one week yeah in the u .s which

is one week which is weird Because I could have

sworn Pinch Me got up higher. It got to... It

got a big push because it had people off of the

next album, Maroon, and they had a big video,

but no, it didn't chart well. It was the only

real... We remember... Bare Naked Ladies primarily

for one week. Some people will remember it for

them for It's Been and Done because that was

the theme song for a short -lived TV show called

Baby Blues. And people will also remember them

for the Big Bang Theory. It's what I was just

going to say. As I'm looking through this, OK,

so you look at the Big Bang Theory, okay, so

the 2000s, okay, 2007. You look at the 90s and

the 2000s, you had two bands doing a theme song

for two very different TV shows that everybody

remembers, which is the Rembrandts for the Friends

theme song and Bare Naked Ladies for Big Bang.

It's just crazy, folks, and that's why I like

having these... two hours with Tom or three hours

with Tom or whatever we're gonna call this thing.

I'm not here to make friends. The point I was

making is that people only know them as the white

Canadian guys who rapped about Chinese chicken.

But they have this depth. I think they have albums

in the double digits at this point. and the first

seven of them, I think, basically up until they

parted ways with Stephen Price, are amazing albums

filled with lots of great, I mean, one of my

favorite songs of theirs is called The Old Apartment,

which is dark as all hell. It's another one about

mental illness. but yeah, you could dive in there

and for a long time and You know Don't just think

that that everything a lot of times we have these

bands that have this one hit and They think everything

that they do is that one hit when it's not Yeah,

I mean right. Okay to go on the opposite end

of the spectrum Deep blue something. Oh breakfast

Tiffany's Which is one of the most not just songs

ever Tiffany's is the equivalent of being cornered

by some boring guy in At a party who is proceeding

to tell you an anecdote that goes nowhere yeah,

and It's an annoying but the thing is He blew

something was a blues rock outfit. Yeah, so everything

on their album that wasn't Breakfast at Tiffany's

sounded nothing like Breakfast at Tiffany's.

Yeah. And that's why they did not have another

hit. Yeah. So, I mean... And this song was used

in almost everything. Well, that's why we have

the curse of the Imagine Dragons right now. Imagine

Dragons is making music not for us, but for...

The ad agencies. Yeah, and some of that stuff

with Justin makes Although the worst the worst

song that I've heard of recently. It's a cover.

Have you heard? Rit Mom knees cover of put your

records up No, I have not I swear. I don't know

if if Corinne Bailey Ray owes him money Ran over

his dog But it sounds like this guy from Utah

That's like this this guy from Utah actively

hates her Because he takes everything that is

good and pleasant. I mean that is a pleasant

song Yeah, put your records on and it's a song

about being happy with yourself and reaching

out to others to spread your positivity to other

people and showing support for other people because

it's a song sung by a black woman to another

black woman. Right. Right. So this white Mormon

decides to remake it. He totally he turns it

into a trap. He changes the pitch several times,

chops up the chorus, it's actively painful to

listen to. And the first time I heard it, I didn't

even realize it was a cover of Put Your Records

On, until he actually said the line. Oh, wow.

Because he is a white Mormon singing a song about

a black woman going... solidarity with another

black woman, there are certain lines, like when

he quotes, when the song quotes Bob Marley, or

when the singer says, I dig, when Rick Momney

sings, I love that Afro hairdo, it sounds like

he's creeping on the girl. Oh, Lord. Yeah, that's

not like creeping on the girl. And when, and

I'm sorry, but it's like, you should not I'm

sure you're a nice person, Rit Momney. That's

not his real name, but that's the only name I

know I'm by. Yup. But, um... You should not have

tried to quote Three Little Birds by Bob Marley.

Good Lord. Yeah, that's not... God. Well, I guess...

Yeah, you know, yeah, I mean I guess the only

other thing left to say in this episode folks

is As a society we're fucked. Yeah. Yeah. No,

we this is this society is literally dissolving

around us and I don't like that. I don't I don't

like that it is like, you know, what happened

is Hey, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I was just gonna

say, like, what happened to the whole thing of,

you know, coming together as a people to lift

each other up? And I know that's a hokey positive

thing, but... But you know what? I defend your

right to say hokey positive things. There's nothing

wrong with being positive people. No, no, there

isn't, but at the same time... There's nothing

wrong with being angry and motivated. to try

and change things. Yes. And that started with

you. And we're not just talking about going to

the voting booth. Get involved on the local level.

Your message, your senators and your congressmen.

Let them know, hold them accountable as they

would hold you accountable if you were cleaning

their house. Exactly. You know, you are One person

screaming, shouting in the middle of a field,

he's a little nuts. So nobody will talk. Two

people, they're having a conversation. But three

people, it's a movement. That's right. We need

more movements, people. So let me, as my final

message, just say, get involved. Get involved.

Your choices matter. Yeah, we not let what almost

happened on January 6th happen again Yeah, and

it's only way we can prevent that from happening

is to be involved ourselves They're counting

on us to sit back and have that happy baby giggling

over star over the third Star Trek series for

Paramount in a month Don't let them win Yeah

it just yeah and I remember it's it's so funny

you're saying message your congress it's not

funny that you're saying this it's ironic that

you're saying this because as much as I prefer

to pay for my entertainment without commercials

I remember as a kid seeing all these commercials

about all these things, write your congressman,

call your congress people, do this, do that,

speak up, speak this, speak that. People are

counting on you to be willfully ignorant. People

in power are counting on you not to care. That's

why they encourage things like Disney buying

up everything that doesn't have that doesn't

have two legs. That's why they're encouraging

this, this, this, you know, this pop culture

war, this whole woke culture bullshit is bullshit

to distract you from what they really are doing,

which is they're trying to strip mine this country

raw. Yeah. Oh, that is the only thing I can tell

you if it's going to your local, like I have

an office of my local assemblyman, city assemblyman,

off the block. I go up there and I talk and I

stay in touch. We have the rights to quote, I

think it was, I think it was Aaron Burr. We should,

people should not be afraid of their government.

Government should be afraid of their people.

And they're counting on us being too afraid to

speak up. There's a way to do what you're saying

to do without something like what happened that

happened at the Capitol. Technical difficulties.

Let's move on, shall we? Entertainment, folks.

It's all about the entertainment, because we

are here to entertain you. Listen to some Fountains

of Wayne. There you go. Not Stacey's Mom. And

you know what? If you like horror, watch Malignant.

That was a great film. I loved that film. And

read The Immortal Hulk, which just finished.

Because it's a really good series. Who is that

written by and drawn by? Ewing and, oh, I don't

remember who the artist is, but Al Ewing is the

writer. Okay. Really, it's very kind of body

horror -ish. So if you're kind of turned off

by body horror, you might want to be careful

with it. But it's a great, there is stuff out

there, and find what you love and love it. Yep.

But don't let them blind with sparkly things.

Especially if they're pointy, folks. Alright,

Tom, where can the people find your other content

online? I am, of course, part of the rotating

co -host for Dread Media, Des Reddick's Canadian

podcast on all things horror. We are coming up

on folklore February this month, where we're

gonna be doing all sorts of folklore horror film,

including one I saw that I really, really liked

called Eye of the Fire from the 80s. And if you

go up to True Freaks, you can, myself and great

Chris Honeywell are still doing The Honeywell

Experiment, where we discuss independent and

greenhouse films of the 50s through to the 90s.

And the February's episode is about Nude on the

Moon, a landmark nudie -cudie film directed by

Doris Wishman, who is one of the earliest female

directors in Hollywood. And also, ATW, Akita

Kanagawa Theater Works. We are finishing up season

three of Friends in Paradise. We've got some

more goodies and we're including spaghetti westerns.

Yep. We've got spaghetti westerns called Poets

Don't Argue coming up. Poets Don't Argue? Don't

Argue. Okay, cool. And we've got a horror show

called Doom Asylum. And we've got, of course,

The Amazing Adventures by Lean Thorn, freelance

lab assistant, which is, as somebody once described

it, it's like a doctor who only, um, we're following

the companion instead of the doctor. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like, so, um, so yeah, so there's lots of

goodies if you like audio drama and be sure to

Be sure to visit us at atw .blotsbach .com. And

if you have some ideas, let us know because we're

always open to other people. And of course, listen

to Thousands of Wayne and Steve Price. Yes. And

Stephen Price also has some great solo albums,

too. All right, folks, I think that's going to

do it with this two hours with Tom. uh i don't

know what's coming up next after this folks and

remember i want to once again remind people you

come to me right i like anything i said you come

to me leave mike out of it i got mike's back

so don't don't go harassing mike thinking that

that i won't know i don't know tfg and mike on

twitter and i'm bringing the rest of the fountains

of wayne with me so all of stacy's daughters

well technically the film is stacy's mom i know

okay well that's true it's been been Stacey may

in fact have some daughters. Oh God, I'm losing

it folks. Go to Twitter, go to Facebook, go to

geekcastradio .com. Listen to our stuff. Come

back next time, because I don't know what's going

to happen next time. Unleash the geek in you

and we will catch you next time. Good night everybody.

I'm not going to say that again. That's embarrassing.