Craig Miller’s Star Wars and More Movie Memories

This is transactional entertainment lawyer Joshua

Lastine, and you're listening to Studio 2009,

only on the GeekCast Radio Network. There is

nothing wrong with your podcast player. Do not

attempt to adjust the volume. Hello and welcome

back into Studio 2009. I'm of course Tf2 and

Mike. Joining me once again as always for 12

months of Star Wars is Mr. Dave Draper. Hi Dave,

how are you? I'm not dead yet, so that's something.

That's definitely something. Yeah, me either.

Although, I think the universe is cursed this

podcast episode. This is episode 107, folks.

You're in the middle of 31 days of December on

Studio 2009. We are releasing 31 episodes. Well,

you did that to yourself with this gene. No,

no, no. 31 days of December. Yeah, 31 podcasts.

That's not why it's cursed. That's not why this

episode is cursed. At some point, one of them

had to be cursed. Come on. 31 podcasts, you're

going to get away with. You're going to get away

clean with all of them. No, unfortunately, I

wish, but unfortunately not. Something always

goes wrong, you know, cross my fingers, hope

to die, et cetera, et cetera, poke a needle in

my eye or something. But no, literally, right

before we recorded, I experienced about a five

and a half, six and a half second power outage.

And I'm like, oh, for fuck's sake. Must have

been one of the other elderly states people that

live in this building that probably turned their

stove on and their toaster on at the same time.

Cuz it's not storming outside So that sounds

less like a them problem than a pure building

problem well, yeah, but Most people know in these

older buildings You can't run the microwave and

the toaster at the same time or else your power

gonna go out Okay, it's a weird thing Anyway,

we are here. We head once again to a galaxy far,

far away as we visit Hollywood. That's right.

We continue the 12 months of Star Wars spotlight

here in the land of filmmaking as we make our

way through Craig Miller's Star Wars and more

movie memories. Technically Star Wars memories

and then the other book, the second book, the

most recent one is more movie memories, but I

like combining the titles. And they also look

like the more movie memories has a big chunk

about Star Wars too. Yeah. come out to and so

this these books we should explain who craig

miller is first let me need that which ties into

the books because the books are about his journey

yeah he was a fan he was a comic book science

fiction fan back in back in the old old days

like the old comic con days when jack kerby would

show up and he got a job as fan relations I don't

know the title. I'm gonna be terrible because

I read these books like two weeks ago and I'm

But he got a job as fan relations for Star Wars

like after he worked for Lucasfilm after Star

Wars hit and During the Empire during the production

of Empire. Um So he's the guy who kind of created

the fan club. He created Bantha tracks He was

involved like he you know, he and Charlie Lippincott

are like the two guys behind the scenes that

were like really keeping Star Wars in the public

eye kind of thing Yeah, he's basically a writer

television producer he's now yes producer. Yes.

Yes, absolutely And yeah, I mean he writes a

lot of cartoons like a he did an episode of the

deep GI Joe It's something called dragon tales,

which apparently people have heard of I You know,

I hadn't because I'm not I'm not a little kid

and I don't have little kids and I'm not oh he

did um He did a couple episodes of Dino Saucers.

Nice That's awesome Yep. Yep He did one episode

of Beast Wars, which I was going to watch before

this and I ran out of time I saw the deep GI

Joe but it was really keeps talking about how

Beast Wars was called Beast Machines in so England

Yeah, so what he means by that is that, no, and

I don't want to... Because Beast Machines is

like a separate thing in America. Yeah, it's

the second series to that Beast era of Transformers.

It's the series after Beast Machines. Yeah, I

know. I watched it. Okay. It's 25th anniversary.

That's the one where they go back to Cybertron

and Megatron escapes and turns everybody, like

brainwashes everybody and turns them into vehicles

because suddenly he's anti -organic. And he gets

split in half. And then in the end, it turns

out that... Cybertron was organic all along which

is the crap ending. Yeah, that was that was Dan

Didio Who went on to DC Comics? No, that was

not Dan Didio. Are you sure? Yes, I'm absolutely

positive. Beast Machines is 25 years old. We've

been covering Beast Machines on the Geekcast

Radio Network for the last 15 and a half years.

It was Bob Skier and Larry DiTillio. No, Larry

didn't come over. Oh, who came? It was Robert

N. Skier because we've interviewed him and it

was a couple other people. I could have sworn

that there was a huge amount of fan hatred towards

him at the time. To Skier, probably, not to Dan

Didio. No, Dan was not. I thought that was how

I even heard the name, dude. So yeah, he wrote

the episode The Probe from Beast Wars and yes,

over in England it had to be and in Canada to

Canada Beast Wars went from Beast Wars to Beasties

and then yeah it's it's a thing it's a whole

thing oh boy I loved reading these books these

books were really I love very interesting yes

Marty Eisenberg and Robert Anskear were the developers

on Beast Machines. That's what I was trying to

think of the second guy. It was Marty that did

it. But yeah, Didio has nothing to do with Beast

Machines or Transformers. He's all DC. So yeah,

where do we want to start with this? I have no

idea, man. So, I've been a really avid reader

since I was a kid, but it has been a long time

since I read a book that's two books, technically,

430 pages times two or whatever the page count

is. I know the second one is 430 pages because

I literally just finished more movie memories

this morning as of this recording. Something

like 800 900 something pages. I haven't read

books like that and probably 15 and a half years

because I switched to audiobooks But I love reading

autobiographies and I love hearing it in the

author's voice and obviously You know you have

to infer that when you're actually reading it

But I love it when authors do especially for

autobiographies. They do the reading of the audiobook

themselves and Yeah, that's always the best I'm

going to ask him when we interview him uh, next

episode if he has thought of doing the audio

book versions of these, because as far as I know,

there are no audio book versions of Star Wars

memories and more movie memories. So there's

that. Yeah. So creating and running the official

Star Wars fan club, he oversaw the fan mail and

working with licenses, producing projects ranging

from episodes of Sesame Street to commercials

for underoos, like you mentioned. Hey, it's still

work Operating r2d2 and spending weeks on the

set of the Empire Strikes Back and Mark yeah,

that's a little like he operated r2d2 in some

behind -the -scenes stuff like um yeah Donnie

Marie show he didn't operate r2 on the Empire

No, no, no, no. I know but the way you're reading

it It's like it's it's sounding like operating

R2 -D2. It's set at Empire Strikes Back. It's

like he did that at like like appearances like

one of the one of the neat little things is he

Handled he talks a bit about fan mail back in

the day because back in the day they didn't have

Twitter and email and all this stuff and they

would just send their their mail to Lucasfilm

or you know He was one of the guys that handled

the fan mail. When people would ask for an autograph

of Darth Vader, he was the guy that signed the

autograph. Because Darth Vader isn't a real person.

If they asked for Mark Hamill's autograph or

James Earl Jones' autograph, they would forward

those on to other people. But for Darth Vader

or C -3PO, he specifically said he signed Darth

Vader's autograph a lot. Which is very cool.

Well, he mentions, and I think more movement

memories, that when that came out at a convention

he was at, suddenly everybody wanted his autograph.

Yep. I mean, like I said, he's had a 50 -plus

year career in Hollywood doing all this stuff,

and these books are such fascinating. When I

was reading Star Wars memories, it was like,

holy crap. We're basically on the inside of what

was happening fifth almost 50 years ago now You

know when that was being made and things same

thing with Empire. Yeah It's like I said during

the holiday because I don't know when you're

chopping these all up I'm a little a little my

brains a little mushy but I said during the holiday

special episode that someone one of the people

they interviewed in the service in the forest,

which is a making of the holiday special documentary

said that that was kind of the most interesting

time was between Star Wars and Empire because

that was when nobody had a plan much much like

today except no everybody was finding their way

and everybody was making their rules and so he

was there in the middle of this chaos that was

taking shape as the Lucasfilm Empire and kind

of reports back on what it was like his little

section of it. He goes into great length about

each building that they were in and how they

moved around. It's weird for me, because I always

associate Star Wars with Fox. Because every movie

began with the 20th century Fox logo. But their

offices were at Universal, because that's where

Lucas had his deal. And then they moved to another

building, and then they moved to the Egg building,

which was this huge building they renovated.

And this is all before they moved to the ranch.

They didn't have a ranch back then. Well, I think

that's interesting. Yeah, no, no. I'm laughing

because of remembering reading him talk about

that. Yeah, no, absolutely. It's absolutely interesting.

I'm not laughing at you telling us that. I'm

saying, yeah, that's... That egg building was

cool as hell. The photos that are in the book,

yeah, absolutely. No, and it's just one of those

things where it's an experience that neither

you and I could never have had. It's not something

that... Well, because obviously we're younger

than he is. Yeah, I was gonna say. I was six.

Okay, but my point is... You weren't born. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. No, I know. I didn't exist yet. I

was not... it's interesting because and this

is sort of jumping around but like because of

his his i don't know how you want it like his

his his youth his his interests his yeah i'll

say backstory or origin story but like he'll

then like because he was in the fan scene um

even before he got into star wars because he

was in the that community of conventions and

getting together but like he'll casually drop

oh i'm best friends with this guy i i know this

famous science fiction author you know Because

he was friends with them before they became a

fan of science fiction, Arthur, because they

were all interested in the same things. It kind

of only makes sense that he got a job with the

defining science fiction experience of the 20th

century. Absolutely. Yeah, no, it is very, very

fun. And yes, folks, you will hear this episode,

the interview we will be doing with Craig at

some point, and then for Christmas you will hear

the holiday special. So that comes after this.

So here you go, folks. There's a preview. I believe

I mentioned in the holiday special episode that

Life Day is November 17th, sir. Yes. It's not

Christmas. It's not Christmas. Yeah, well. November

17th. Yeah, it's November 17th, but it's gonna

be released on November 9th, so... Okay, well

that's closer. No, no, no. Not November. December.

It's December. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It's

close enough. Well, it's not like Jesus was born

December 25th anyway. Sorry, gonna get in trouble

for that one, but it's true. They moved it to

coincide with the pagan holiday of the yule.

Log? Yule log? The Yuletime, yeah. It's called

Yuletime. That's where they got the Yul log from,

is Yuletime. That's how they got more people

to join the church. That's what I can think of

as, holy shit, where's the Tylenol? I'm sorry

that historical facts occasionally bump into

religious... No, hey, don't apologize. It's not

your fault. You've ever wondered why a big pine

tree is associated with a holiday that was, you

know... born in the Middle East? Yeah, it's a

little... Don't even get me started about the

Easter rabbit. That guy over there is just a

guy in a suit. And don't even get me started

with the tradition of the Life Day blue balls,

man. You don't even want to know where that comes

from. Because it doesn't even make any sense

because they watch porn on Life Day. So why do

they have blue balls? I don't know. It doesn't

make sense. The entire Wookiee holiday, it's

all just made up. It's all just religious propaganda

of the high Wookiee religious order. So yeah,

the Star Wars memories. Those Star Wars memories.

Like you said, where he talks about running into

various people or being friends with various

people. I love the chapter where George, Mark

and Harrison have lunch. Well, I love the punchline

of that. The Harrison gets him to pay for lunch.

Yes, exactly. Because that's so Harrison Ford.

Oh, of course. You know, I mean, after all, he

did shoot first. He did. But yeah, no, reading

these, it was so fun. And just the chapter on

how initial reviews of Star Wars went from glowing

praise to scathing criticism. Like, again. Wasn't

alive during this time. You were six or seven

or somewhere. I don't know I remember being a

fan of sneak previews was to school in Ebert,

but I don't remember the first one I remember

Star Wars one of theirs. I remember was was Jedi

I was really young and it is one of those things

like apparently Because I've I think I watched

the thing on them on YouTube Like they were like

though they were Is there a call? They weren't

exactly super, they liked it okay, but it became

a, it's one of those things, even though it was

a huge hit at the time, with the reviewers, it

became a classic down the road a little bit.

It was one of those, well, looking back on it,

it was actually a new film. I remember the famous

story, Craig doesn't tell it, but there's a famous

story about Harlan Ellison did not like Star

Wars. And then he saw Empire and his attitude

changed. Like he thought, okay, well, this is

now a classic. I believe it was Harlan Ellison.

Completely changed his opinion of the Star Wars

trilogy after Empire. Because it's one of those

things like we're so used to it being this thing.

That it's weird to, I think I said in another

episode, I hate to keep repeating myself all

the time, that there was a documentary about

Star Wars. and they really played up how much

of a long shot it was. Greg Miller talks about

Alan Ladd Jr. was the only guy at Fox who believed

in the project. The reason it's at Fox is because

Universal didn't want it. Nobody wanted it. Nobody

wanted science fiction because it generally didn't

do well and it was considered a kiddy thing and

it was associated with bad 50s B movies. the

thing in this documentary is everyone's going,

oh, you know, I didn't think it was going to

do it. I didn't think it was going to be that

big. And then, of course, Ford, because he's

Harrison Ford, is like, oh, I knew it was going

to be a hit. I knew it was going to be huge all

along. Yeah, I knew it was going to be great.

But I mean, regardless of if that's his personality

or not, you got to be that way. When looking

in the face of critics and then all of a sudden

your thing is a success, you have to be that.

Because literally everybody else was, I mean,

you know, I think Hamill and Carrie Fisher were

like, oh, we had no idea. We were just doing

the thing for like a couple of months and it

was going to be a science fiction movie and nobody

watches those. Nobody cares. And then move on

to the rest of my career. You know, let's see.

That's the thing though. Like it. Star Wars.

And the joke was that the narrative is that Star

Wars was the like, I think what I mentioned was

that they were playing up the huge gamble of

Star Wars so much that when they got to Williams

and said, Oh, doing a John Williams traditional

soundtrack was a big risk too. And I'm like,

this is ridiculous. This is overkill. And he

had won the Academy Award for Jaws. But yeah,

it was, it was a risk. Nobody expected it to

do well. I mean, the Star Wars rewrote the rules.

We haven't even gotten to the the the toy marketing

like that was that was a huge thing. It's like

they didn't and It's interesting because their

take on it is different than what I've always

heard Which is that you didn't do licensing for

movies because they came and went too fast, which

makes sense Because they do like But the story

I had always heard Was that dr. Doolittle had

come out, you know years before in the 60s with

Rex Harrison And it had this massive licensing

push all these toys because it was a childhood

I mean when they were still doing dr. Doolittle

books when I was a kid, I don't know if there's

still a thing anymore But like it was so big

and then it crashed and like the movie was a

bomb and they had just tons of unsold toys And

it was a disaster and it was like movies do not

maybe that's where they got the thing about movies

do not they go too quick so that the toys in

the 70s you had a lot of TV licensed toys like

you had a six million dollar man You had me go

ahead Star Trek me go plant me goes planted the

eighths toy line was based on a short -lived

TV show Which is why you have the two human characters

from the TV show and then you have a generic

astronaut who's you know What's his name? So

I mean, I guess he was supposed to Charlton Heston.

He was just astronaut But like yeah, so Star

Wars kind of redefined that And I think it's

brought up in a disturbance in the force that

Lucas kind of specifically was trying to keep

Star Wars in people's eye. Like, not let it fade

because the Empire was coming up, which is why

you had Donnie Marie, which is why you had Sesame

Street, which is why you had the horrible, horrible

holiday special. He wanted to keep Star Wars

out there so that people, you know. Because you've

been told by somebody at Universal, oh, people

will forget about that by September. But another

thing that people don't realize that seems weird

now is movies don't last. Like back in the day,

that movie, there's a poster for the one year

anniversary of Star Wars still in theaters. Like

movies don't last that long if they were big

enough. Like nowadays, even like a thing like

Avengers maybe makes it like two months. So a

perfect example of this, folks, is the... Not

to switch it over to the robots, but Transformers

1 came out in September. Okay, but that didn't...

I said Avengers specifically because those movies

make money. And they still don't go. I heard

it's a really good movie, but Transformers 1

was a bomb. Just like the original Transformers

the movie was. So yeah, let's just stick with

Endgame since it's the one I pulled up. Endgame

was released April 26th of 2019 here in the U

.S. and the media release was, let's see, April,

probably somewhere around August or September,

I forget off the top of my head. Well, now it's

even like... Yeah, most movies they go right.

I mean, you're lucky if they aren't even competing

with you on streaming when they come out. They

go they go to streaming immediately. But the

point being, yeah, that that back then movies

played forever because there was nowhere else

for them to go. Right. Yeah, there was no home.

There was no home video. There was no nothing.

So, I mean, probably one of the biggest fights

I ever got in with with my mother was when it

came out on video. And I wanted it. And she was

like, nope, because it was like $100. It was

like $70. It was either $100 or $70. It was expensive

as hell in the 80s. Price to own was literally

an expression that came out probably late 80s,

early 90s. Because they would sell them to video

stores. So then they started selling to the consumers.

Yeah, I started hearing that around 86, 87 when

I was 70. Price to own. So as an example of a

blockbuster movie that came out last year, John

Wick 4, released in March of 2023 by... Where

is this thing? By May of 2023, it was released

digitally. So two months, literally two months

almost to the day of a... Billion dollar movie

being and that's what I'm saying it did I I understand

He actually talks about it in the book that even

back in the day the system is set up to discourage

long -running movies because It's front -loaded

for the studios the studios get all their money

opening weekend not all their money But they

get they get it's like a sliding scale that forms

an X We're like at the beginning the studio gets

all the money and then at the end of the theaters

get all the money So the longer the movies in

the theaters, the more the money the theaters

get. Which is why for years we've had this front

-loaded opening weekend nonsense where they'll

one weekend after another, they'll knock each

other off. Which kind of fell off during COVID,

but that had been the model for a long time because

that's how the studios get their money. It's

why you have second run theaters who got... Yeah,

dollar theaters and things like that. Absolutely.

Yeah. And the thing about the 2020 and everything

else that happened during all of that and whatever

else, it's like, oh, well, we can't get our front

end money or our front end money. Well, let's

specifically through Disney and Disney Plus,

let's throw it like I remember, was it Cruella?

I think it was like you can watch Cruella at

home for 30 bucks more than what you already

paid for Disney Plus. Again, going to John Wick

4. I remember when that came out and it literally

went to streaming. There was one of them. There

was plenty of movies in 2020, folks, that were

supposed to be in the theaters before Fandango

bought them. Or no, it was right after Fandango

bought Voodoo. Fandango at home. And you could

spend 40 or 50 bucks to get whatever movie that

was supposed to be in theaters at home on your

streaming thing. Whatever. The whole thing in

the last 50 or so more years has just changed

so much and I personally don't like going to

theaters anymore. The last time I was at a movie

theater was 2018? Yeah, 2018. And the only reason

why I remember that was because it was a re -release

theatrical airing of Transformers, the movie

from 1986. Hey, I was six. I didn't get a chance

to see it. I saw that movie like after I saw

Duke die in the 80s. Anyway, Duke didn't die.

There was a radio call at the last minute. Quote,

unquote, die, coma. There was a radio call at

the last minute. Yes, yes, yes. He's in a coma.

He's going to be fine. Doc says, Duke's gonna

be fine. Everyone cheers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay,

okay. Maybe he shows up at the Deek Show, so

I mean, he didn't die. Yeah, yeah. But yeah,

no. And one of the things that I love about reading

Craig's books is, again, it's a story of a time

that... It's gone. Yeah, it's literally gone.

You can't just... Like I think in more movie

memories when we get out of that he talks about

certain studios and stuff like that Where you

used to be able to just go to the boss of the

studio and say hey, I have this idea Kind of

thing you can't do that anymore does that towards

the end of more movie memories? Yeah industry

has shifted from oh, yeah people to Executives

yeah But you know is kind of my knock I don't

know if it was our knock the my knock on the

sequel trilogy and Lucasfilm as it is now Where

you know, it's it is in I mean, I can't really

get into details, but I have met Hollywood producers

and they are exactly what you think they are

Like they are like these guys were out of central

like if I had to like make a movie about movie

Producers makers. These would be the guys, you

know, like cuz like just clueless You know, don't

they don't really care about you. I mean, it's

like Like something out of Wayne's world kind

of thing except except instead of that guy was

I can't remember the actor's name Rob Lowe, Rob

Lowe except Rob Lowe was smart at least. Yeah,

these guys were I mean, I guess they were good

at making movies or maybe well making TV shows

to be fair, but yeah But but you know, I Again,

what an interesting life One thing I do want

to say is like, okay, so the first book is Star

Wars So that was kind of why we're doing this

on the podcast and that was you know, obviously

People would assume that's my wheelhouse cuz

I love Star Wars But then I read the stuff that

they worked on and like it talks about in the

second book They worked on and I was like this

is like all the stuff that I grew up with I mean

this baby secret of lost legend was like one

of those obscure films now Like I remember in

love. He did Dark Crystal. He did Muppets Take

Manhattan, you know, I mean I was kind of sad

that he didn't talk more about Henson and that

stuff. It's very quick Because that's you know,

but like he was involved in all these other movies

that were like a big part of my 80s childhood

When I yeah, I mean obviously like you said Star

Wars memories is why we're here and But honestly,

the dude's life. Honestly, we're here to talk

about Craig Miller. We're here and we're going

to interview him next episode kind of thing whenever

the next episode comes out here in December,

Dark Side December, if you want to call it that.

But it's one of those things where he's written

a book in 2019 specifically about his beginnings.

as well as where he led into all of his, like

he's essentially the creator of the Star Wars

quote unquote fandom because he helped create

or did create. I would say less creator than

curator. I think he helped curate it. Because

I mean, fandom happens organically. Yeah. Because

I've seen enough times they try to create a fandom

and it doesn't work. I think he was there to

sort of curate it foster it, take care of it.

I don't think he created it. I think he nurtured

it and treated it well so that it grew strong

and healthy and turned Star Wars into the thing

that it is, that it was. I think what I'm meaning

to say is what he did create and run was the

official Star Wars fan club. Oh yes. So specifically,

yes, he didn't create the fandom of Star Wars,

George Lucas and all the actors and the writers

and whatever else. They did that with the movies,

whatever else. But he did specifically create

and ran the official Star Wars fan club. So technically,

that was what I meant to say. And as a fan himself

of science fiction, as it is said in Star Wars

memories and more movie memories, he wanted a

place like. It's like us creating podcasts or

creating Facebook groups to hang out in or going

to small Kane County conventions. I know Kane

County is not small, but you know what I mean?

It's not a convention either, it's a toy show.

Toy show, whatever. C2E2. Kane County Superior.

Well, they're different things. Yeah, they're

different things. You don't go to a I'm trying

to remember what I would, like back when I would

go to C2E2, I mean, I went to a panel on Family

Guy. You don't go to panels on Family Guy at

Kane County. You go to a booth and buy toys.

Yeah. Okay. I got you. But that's what I meant

to say of him starting the official Star Wars

fan club and kind of getting the Star Wars fandom

sort of organized back in those days. a little

bit and sort of all of the stuff that that he

sent out to people or the stuff that they gave

out at conventions or movie premieres or whatever.

Like that is something I wish I could have experienced.

Well, OK. So like I my collection has grown somewhat

because of that book, the first book. One of

the things he mentions, which is weirdly integral

to my own Star Wars experience, is they had these

books. These little booklets that they gave out

at the movies, right? Like Star Wars had little

books that they would give away to the fans.

Um, and I remember like My my my whole story

about that is is I was six we were at a family

vacation in Florida visiting my grandmother and

I was kind of rooming with my cousins and They

were all older than me and they were all talking

about a movie that they had seen that was so

amazing It's so exciting and they were gonna

go see it again And they had this book that had

been given out at the theater. So I remember

looking through that book and being like, woo,

okay. And the thing that's sort of famous in

our family in my little story is I was like,

can I go with you guys? And they're like, oh,

no, no, you wouldn't like it. They literally

told me I wouldn't like it. How wrong they were.

They didn't want to hang out. They were like,

you know, maybe 15 and I was six. So they didn't

want to hang out with me. But I remember that

book. and it's weird because that's one of the

things I want to ask him about because I remember

a different book because I went I went on eBay

and I tracked it down because he mentions it

in his book yeah I was like oh yeah the book

so I went I tracked it down and I got a copy

and it's like this is completely different than

what I remember but he has a picture of it in

his book I'm like I guess this is the thing maybe

maybe theaters in Florida got a different book

I don't know but yeah but but they used to do

stuff like that I remember when the Frank Herbert

not Frank Herbert the David Lynch Dune came out

like theaters had like a little sheet of how

to pronounce everything like a little uh glossary

sheet for audiences to try to keep track of everything

um but yeah nowadays it's you know it's kind

of sad like like back then they had little books

that explained stuff to you and now it's look

it's a popcorn bucket shaped shaped like a sex

doll wolverine and deadpool did that which was

funny and i got one but um Hell yeah, I got a

Wolverine sex doll. Well, I mean, they did that

because Dune did the popcorn bucket shaped like

the worm, which is unfortunate. You know, if

you're not thinking in terms of a giant sandworm

and you're thinking of other things, and I think

I think they played off of that. But I mean,

like there's a they just showed off the Moana

bucket, which is her holding a big wave. You

know, like it's a thing now. Like, but my point

being that back then it was more... I mean, education,

I cringed to the word educational, but it was

just a little more, a little less just sort of

cheap consumerism. Also, also they gave the book

away, whereas the buckets are like all the frigging

money. Yeah, exactly. They weaponized it, they

monetized it. Yep. Because it was about fans.

Yeah, it was about you know, it was about like

now now we're not we're not fans anymore. We're

consumers No, i'm still a fan. No, no, no, but

I mean to them like his point is that yeah, they

don't they don't see it as art They see it as

a product Yeah and and and we're not fans. We're

consumer because that's one of the I think the

biggest thing going on in media entertainment

Whatever you want to say these days and and i'm

interested in his take on it is there is a definite

friction between the fandom and the creators.

Oh, absolutely. I think some, you know, some

people can go, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, we love the thing. But like, I think it's

pretty clear that there are people who are not

happy with the direction that things are going

and like things the way they were. And it's become

political for some reason, which is weird because

I know people that like I don't know. I don't

know. I don't want to get to this, but I don't.

I know. OK. On paper would be the perfect. The

thing is, they'd be the perfect person for who

they're shooting for nowadays. Right. And they

don't like it. They like they like the Marvel

movies the way they were. And, you know, I think

they just don't understand because they're thinking

in terms of their politics and their their agendas.

They don't understand that. Even people who agree

with their politics and their agendas wanted

to be entertained Here's the thing for me Any

writer today needs to leave all reality at home

If I get a chance to write Transformers 2 because

Let's face it folks, Transformers 1, Transformers

2, Transformers 3, that's what they should all

be called from now on, right? But let's just

say in some weird alternate universe, Mike Blanchard

gets a chance to write Transformers 2. I am going

to write a story that fits the characters like

the events that happened during the first film.

I'm going to reference that or I'm going to take

those characters beyond where they were. I'm

not going to throw in a giant orange tangerine

because I feel like it needs to be in there.

I'm not going to throw in. Which is ironic because

Unicron is partially orange. Technically, you're

not wrong. I'm not wrong. My point is when I

say a writer needs to leave reality at home when

he goes to work, he or she or they or them or

whatever. Also, I think you're specifically referring

fantasy genre fiction. Yeah, like it needs to

be a story like you can have like Star Wars.

You look at since we're done. I mean, Star Wars

started out as the Vietnam War and then the prequels

were the Bush era. I understand that. It has

its own type, even though we make the allegories

to those, which I'm not saying you're wrong.

I'm not at all. You are correct. But I'm saying

to someone that isn't as deep divey as we are

into all of that, to the general audience, going

to see a Star Wars movie or watching a Star Wars

television show, it has its own set of politics

within the universe. Well, it's escapism. Right.

Exactly. It's escapism. and I want to be able

to escape the reality of this election year and

deal with it, then if I'm watching something,

if I am watching, listening, I want to be entertained.

I don't want to be stressed out. The whole point

of watching things and reading things is to not

stress. And I think that... 50 years ago in the

time that Craig was working at Lucasfilm and

the time that Star Wars and Empire and everything

was being made and all that and His later career

in more movie memories. It's a completely different

time Than what we have today and it's a completely

different Fandom than what we have today because

let's all well, let's face it folks. We all know

the internet gave birth and gave a voice and

gave a keyboard for people to just blindly write.

You're not going to take the DeLorean back to

1977 and go into a packed theater of Star Wars

watchers and hear somebody yell out something

that they would type as an internet comment on

a YouTube video. You're just not gonna hear that

whereas now, you know, you've got all this toxic

I don't deal with fan fandom toxicity I don't

I curate my stuff to where I don't see any of

that crap because I'm too goddamn old for it.

Yes I know I'm younger than you yada yada yada

yada yada But the point is reading Star Wars

memories reading more movie memories of a time

that I didn't know I mean I knew it existed obviously

but like Getting into reading this you know,

reading Craig's history, reading how he grew

up and did adulthood and everything else in those

days is extremely, I had so much fun reading

both these books because it transported me back

to a time when it wasn't just random people,

random comments on the internet. You know what

I mean? Am I making any sense here or am I just

right? Yeah, no, I think you are. Okay, good.

I was gonna say the thing about the internet

is that it lets you be anonymous Where before

you had to be, you know, you said you can't go

into a theater and blah blah blah Well, if you

did people would see you and react immediately.

Yes, exactly. So now you're just going on, you

know Snape kill Dumbledore Darth Vader's Luke

Swather You know, you can you can just be a dick

online and like have no consequences Or minimal

consequences. Oh, no, you have consequences.

Trust me. Even if you are a stranger, even if

you are a nameless, faceless keyboard warrior.

But people are into causing trouble and getting

blowback. No. They are. I know they are. But

I'm saying, no, not me. I'm not saying you. I

know you're not saying me. I'm saying, like,

it's just... We talked about I can't remember

if it was last one or we talked about hate watching

and how I don't understand that yeah, it was

like probably in It was probably something about

the sequel trilogy. I'll tell you it was probably

in the sequel trilogy or it might have been in

Mando But yeah, I don't I don't get like if I

don't like something. I don't want to watch it

I don't I don't from doing, oh, I don't like

this. I'm going to sit here and do my video about

every little thing that I don't like about this.

It's like, no, I'm just going to not waste my

time watching it in the first place. Yep. And

that's the thing. That's why advertisements,

to me, are so important. Movie trailers, television

commercials, whatever, like television commercials

for TV trailers, whatever you want to call them.

Those are so important to me because those tell

me in a finite amount of time, a minute, two

minutes, whatever it is, whether I want to see

something or not. Trailers got so bad that for

about a decade, maybe like 20 years, I could

see five movies for one movie because I'd watch

the trailers. I remember the movie, Mr. Holland's

Opus, because I had a friend who saw that and

he's like, oh, I really like this. I told him

the entire movie. And he's like, you saw it?

I'm like, no, I saw the trailer. And this is

the true story. And they even had the thing about

his son was deaf and he had this. And it was

like, and then the class comes together again

and plays this song. It's like, it's the whole

movie. I didn't need it. Like in comedies especially,

comedies are the worst because they get all the

good jokes, the trailers. So I didn't, I don't

need to see all these movies because I've seen

the trailers. But like that's bad. Like I remember,

Back in the day I got specifically the romancing

the stone and jewel the Nile They filmed trailers

just for those movies that have like little stories

of their own. Um That that didn't give away like

I didn't give away everything cuz I remember

Zemeckis Sort of gotten to this thing where like

he would put he would put spoilers in the trailers

There's there's one about like with Harrison

Ford where it turns out Harrison Ford's the murderer

And they put that in the trailer. Um, you know

and then castaway Yeah, they showed Tom Hanks

getting home and it's like why would you do that?

Oh, do they just released as of this recording

folks? You'll hear this in December but as of

this recording in November of 2024 They released

a 4k version of the Brad Pitt movie 7 the 19

I think was 95 him in 7 the killer is on the

back of the case of the movie like Well, I mean,

come on, that's been like 10 years. I mean, 97,

that's been like 20 years. 95 is 30 years. Okay,

well, Jesus. Because I'm literally writing in

Mr. Holland's opus for 30 years. Mr. Stark, I

don't feel so good. That's right. That's right.

That's funny. You're the second person, second

person this week to use that exact line on me.

And I'm like... Wait, oh, right. He turns to

dust after that. Yeah, I remember. Look, I chose

the wrong grail. Fuck off. I chose poorly. Only

the penitent man will pass. Only the penitent

man will pass. We're all dead. Okay, we are way

off topic. No, no, no. But no, this is fun. This

is very fun. And I hope Craig listens to this

and has fun, because I am going to send him this

before it is released so he can have a feeling

of how we are back out. OK, I won't send it to

him then. I won't send it to him then. At the

end of the day, folks, two books, a lifetime

of a person who Would say and he can correct

me when we interview him I'd say as as it as

a fan as a science fiction fan that he is Like

what a story. Oh, yeah, it's amazing What I also

like as a science fiction fan like I don't know

Like how it gets like unless it's like Star Trek.

I don't know how I get like you you got to work

for Star Wars. Mm -hmm Yeah, okay. I'm a huge

Star Wars fan. So yes, I would do anything to

work even today. I Would if Lucasfilm came knocking

I'd be like, okay I will I will do what you ask

of me. I would just just to be part of that legacy

Um, but yeah, like that's like that. That's a

huge thing and he wasn't just Star Wars he was

I Said I keep going to baby secret lost legend

because it's got dinosaurs and I like dinosaurs

But like, you know, the Muppets. Oh, man, I got

to I got to the Muppets chapter and I was like,

you worked on Muppets take Manhattan. Are you

kidding me? A little bit. He did a little bit.

He also did Dark Crystal. Yeah, I did Dark Crystal.

But but yeah, seriously, the Muppets. So I don't

know who I'm going to do this with. If you want

to volunteer, that's fine. I've never seen that

one. Really? You've never seen that? I gave up

after... I didn't give up, but I feel like I

grew out of it, kind of, after caper. Okay, yeah,

yeah. I get you, I get you. Yeah, and I always

forget Manhattan was after caper, wasn't it?

Oh, yes. Okay, yeah. See, I got them backwards.

I always thought Manhattan was first and caper

was second because I saw caper... The point is

that I was watching those movies at that time.

Yes, as a kid, I watched The Muppet Show on TV

like every other kid in the 80s did, even though

it started in the 70s. Yes. See, that's the thing

is I watched it as a kid in the 70s. Yes, again.

Oh boy, folks. 2025. Although the irony is, if

you know anything about Henson, he didn't want

it to be a kid's show. Right. And I think that's

I think that's why it lingers. I think that's

why fans are still fans. Yeah. Because even because

like I said, I kind of I felt like I kind of

grew out of it. But at the same time, like I've

gone back, you know, like what I meant was because

because by the mid 80s, I was in my teens and

you get into your teens. I mean, there was a

period where I was I grew out of Star Wars. For

like five or six years. When you're teens, you

have an attitude. When you're in your early 20s,

you have an attitude about stuff. You don't want

to watch baby stuff anymore. I think the good

stuff you come back to and you embrace. I never

got into Muppets Take Manhattan because it was

in that weird phase where I just was like, Muppets

is good stuff. Then you go back and you watch

the old Muppet show. The first episode is called

Sex and Violence. You know you rewatch some of

that stuff and you kind of you know You get the

jokes you didn't get as a kid You realize Charles

Groton and gave him up a caper is on massive

amounts of cocaine Like you're just like what

is this guy doing? This is crazy nonsense Because

I rewatched that I watched about that of that

last year because I had gone to Chicago and basically

stayed in that hotel It's not it's not it's not

a real hotel and it was in London, sir Yeah,

no, I stayed in the the the Happiness Hotel.

Trust me. Nice There were rats singing and the

whole thing Oh boy So, yeah So, yeah, I mean

if you're gonna do you're gonna do a thing on

the muppets, I mean, yeah And then it would be

fun because I that would be one that I've never

seen so you'd get to me to watch a movie And

it's been forever since I watched those movies

though. Like I remember I Remember watch I remember

the act of watching them. I just don't remember

the cut like okay the Muppet movie I remember

the most obviously it's the best one Really quiet

what really Okay, which one's better? Is it Manhattan?

No. Which one's better than the Muppet movie?

Oh, well, at first I thought you were gonna say...

I didn't realize you were gonna say the Muppet

movie. I thought you were gonna say Christmas

Carol. But yeah. No, I don't have video right

now because my face is utterly perplexed What

on earth do you think is better than the original

Muppet movie? No, I thought no when you said

what's better than like I didn't realize you

were talking about the original Muppet movie

I thought you were gonna say what's better than

a Christmas kit Muppets Christmas Carol That's

what I thought you were going to say which I

also have never seen I guess it's a Christmas

Carol like like But it's better than the original

story. Trust me, it is. I mean, it probably is,

but it's not better than the Mubba movie. No,

I didn't say that. I didn't say it was. I just

said that - Jim Henson's set in a - apparently

set in a friggin' submarine to do that opening

scene, man. Hey, man, I'm not - That's crazy.

Absolutely. Not, uh, not complaining. Come with

the Broadway, it's a bike. I mean, come on, man.

And then the animal's a giant. The animal saves

the day because it becomes a giant monster. They're

all animal. Animal may be my favorite. Anyway.

So, folks, back to Muppet State Manhattan to

at least tie it back to this. Read Star Wars

Memories, folks. Read Muppet State Memories by

Craig Miller. These are wonderful books. Craig's

story is amazing. We can't wait to talk to him

next time on the podcast. Is there anything else

we need to say about these two books? I don't

think so. Probably a lot more than we probably

should have said. What I do like is reading his

chapter in more movie memories. about the writing

life like transitioning from marketing to being

a writer kind of thing I think that's really

really cool because I've been writing poetry

since I was 14 years old 30 years ago so yeah

that anniversary is is coming up for me at some

point here soon if it hasn't already passed by

now But yeah folks go get these books. They're

very very cool. Very very fun If you're a star

war literally if you're a star wars fan star

wars memories like it's like being a kid in a

candy store 50 years ago That just the way he

tells his story the way that the events are hearing

people talk about George Lucas that have actually

you know worked for the man and and done thing

like just that because George Basically, folks,

you hear Dave impersonate George as a muppet

half the time. I mean, yeah. He's Kermit. What

color is yours, blood? Green, I guess. Yeah,

sure. I have never heard of... I have never heard

Kermit and George be... compared like that before.

Holy crap. I mean, listen to the way he talks.

I like the Wookiees. They were based on my dog,

Indiana, which I named another character after.

I drive around in my truck with my dog, Indiana,

and I was like, wouldn't this be cool if this

was a spaceship shaped like a hamburger? And

yeah. Oh, God. I don't know. Oh, boy. We named

the dog in here. That's all. That's all. I got

a lot of memories of that dog. You know, it's

all I can hear Sean Connery's voice in my head.

We named the dog in the dog. Indiana had a lot

of fond memories of that dog. That's right. Junior,

Junior, who is this junior? Henry Jones. Anyway,

may the force be with you all. Don't know anymore

we're so off the rails folks and he does for

the record he does touch I Wouldn't say he does

touch more than a little bit on Raiders. Yeah,

he was around during Raiders Yeah, there's a

whole whole chapter on that. I think I'm pretty

sure at the egg building. Yeah Oh, we didn't

even mention the other one the other big one

before what we we get out of here for the podcast

folks Oh Superman 2 It's been a while since I

it's been like couple weeks. Yeah, you work on

superman 2. Yeah Yeah Yeah Let's see, I'm trying

to, where is it? Yeah, post Lucasfilm project,

share stories from his work on other iconic films

like Superman 2, Dark Crystal, Last Starfighter.

And I always got - Last Starfighter, yeah, I

forgot, yeah. Yeah, I always got, so this is

a stupid me thing. I always got Flight of the

Navigator and Last Starfighter confused, just

as titles, not as what they actually are. But

I always think one is the other and the other

is the other one, but obviously it's not. And

then besides all the Muppet stuff, Return to

Oz. Oh my God. That movie scarred me as a nine

year old. Oh my God. The Chinese people owe whoever

created the characters of the Tik Tokers in that

movie. Yeah. Tik Tok owes whoever named those

characters some money because yikes. But guys

with the motorcycle That movie. Whoa. Wait, tick

-tock was the the big mechanical guy. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah Yeah, anyway, I was like I used to

be my Gigi campaign But now folks like I said

Star Wars memories more movie memories by by

Craig Miller check them out. Very very awesome.

Very very cool We are going to go to a quick

ad break. I'm going to compose myself, readjust,

and come back. We're going to come back for the

closing right after this. So let's say you're

looking for a podcast of your favorite 80s comic

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He -Man, et cetera. Where are you going to go

to find us? Welcome to Star Joe's Podcast. I'm

your host, Ryan. And I'm Chuck. That's right,

everybody. We're the Star Joe's. We host a podcast

called Star Joe's Podcast, where we talk about

your favorite comic books, your favorite toys

of all the 80s properties. Star Wars, G .I. Joe,

Transformers, M .A .S .K., Thundercats, Voltron,

you name it, we cover it. If it's in the 80s,

we will cover it at some point. Yes, so what

you want to do to find us, you can go to iTunes,

you can go to www .starjoes .com. And remember,

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movie podcast The Geekcast Radio Network presents

for your listening pleasure, The Cinema Geeks.

Hosted by Amanda, Kevin, Matt, and Dan. Each

week we dive head first in the landscape of movies

as we discuss movie news, play movie games, go

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We brought the entire convention center to the

brink of an inter -genre geek war. Okay, Michael,

if we're going to tackle this podcast thing,

we've got to do something really special. It

has to be cool, daily, in audio form, and undetectable

by radar. Something that screams summer. I know,

let's do a Phineas and Ferb review podcast. We'll

call it the Podcast Organization Without a Cool

Acronym, or Pauka for short. What do you think?

I think if we're not careful, Candice is gonna

bust us. You can find Pauka on the GeekCast,

Radio Network, iTunes, Blog Talk Radio, and all

of the other methods you find podcasts. We'll

give you the whole seat, but you'll only need

the edge. On the Simplistic Reviews podcast,

we talk movies. We talk TV. We talk - Hello Julie,

what the heck are you doing? Trying to make our

spots sound more exciting by adding explosions.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you could have got the

point across with sound effects, not the real

thing. Download the show on iTunes or at simplisticreviews

.blogspot .com. I'm sure your insurance company

will cover that. No, they won't. No, they probably

won't. All right, folks, we are back here inside

Studio 2009. This is episode 107. 107, a new

record. Wait, that's a TMNT line. 12 months of

Star Wars we discussed, sort of, Craig Miller,

Star Wars, memories, and more memories. Yeah,

absolutely obviously fun conversation as always

hopefully next episode you will hear our interview

with mr. Craig Miller After that, we've got the

holiday and Lego holiday special episode and

then we've got to close out Star Wars 12 months

of Star Wars for now. We've got the episode 7

to 9 music episode the scores and then folks

we're gonna have Which I don't know how we're

gonna do this. Luckily. This is in December And

we're going to do it all before it airs, but

we're going to have nine days of Colombo. Dave

and I are starting Colombo season one. We're

going to cover the first nine episodes of Mr.

Fok and Colombo and just one more thing and all

that other good stuff. So that's what's going

to be coming up here on Studio 2009 in the 31

days of December. We're going to have to wait

probably for the second episode before we really

get into the One more thing. And yeah, yeah,

I think he might do that in the first one, but

he's it's not so he's kind of a different character

in the first one. Yeah. As of this recording,

because I was trying to set this up on to be

to make sure I could go back and rewatch the

first season, I had already started watching

before we even discussed doing this before I

even brought it up to you. I had already been

watching the show on TV. and I'm like up to season

two episode eight or nine or and I'm like trying

I'm trying I was trying to get the website of

2b .tv to re -recognize the fact that I want

to go back to season one episode one it's gonna

be like 17 different tries of pressing f5 and

resetting all the cookies and everything I'm

like oh my god just fucking learn that I want

to go back to the beginning I just put the disc

in the thing and press play. Old man for the

win. Yeah, there you go. So that's what's coming

up. And then after the nine days of Colombo,

folks, we've got, I don't know what episode 120

is going to be right now, but we've got the final

10 days are going to be all anniversaries, all

movie anniversaries. We've got the 20th anniversary

of iRobot. 25th anniversary. What? Just like,

okay. I don't remember. That was a movie that

happened. Let's remember it, I guess. It was

a good movie. Okay. Wow, okay 25th anniversary

of office space 25th anniversary of bicentennial

man And then we've got 30th anniversaries for

drop zone terminal velocity pulp fiction forest

gump demolition man The Shawshank Redemption

which Dave has never seen which we will correct

that And then to close out the anniversary episodes,

we're going to do the 30th anniversary of Mavericks

Street Fighter. We are going to do a double feature

featuring the 1994 Mel Gibson driven Maverick

and then Raoul Julia and John Claude Van Damme.

Weirdest combination ever. Street Fighter. Yeah,

but Raoul Julia as M. Bison. No, no, no, no,

that movie is that movie is wonderful. But Maverick.

I don't know why you'd combine it with Maverick,

but like it's because I mean, you could do a

whole episode on Street Fighter alone. It's it's

yeah, it's so the. Wonderfully bizarre. Yeah,

the problem is I was trying to fit 31 days, and

I wanted to fit in the anniversary of, I don't

want to do next year, the 31st anniversary of

Street Fighter, because I hate that. You could

do 30th, 35th, 40th, whatever, that kind of,

I hate. It could be like a day one thing, like

welcome to the new year, and here's Street Fighter,

right? And for you? Maybe. For me, it was a Tuesday.

Oh, hang on, I'm checking my calendar. If January

versus a Tuesday, we absolutely have to do that.

Ah, fuck, it's a Wednesday. Because that is the

best, like, Raul Julia is in another movie. He's

in a really good movie, playing over the top.

It's kind of heartbreaking that it's his last

film because he's so magnetically good. That's

not a hate wash. For me, I'm bringing it back

to it's so fun that it's bad. It's bad, but it's

so bad it's fun. It's just so clunkily written.

And then Raoul Julia is this other level. It's

amazing. You're teaming it up with Maverick.

Maverick is a fun comedy 90s thing. I would team

up with the G .I. Joe movie. I know it's not

an anniversary for that. I'm trying to think

of other... Luckily we haven't produced that

yet. Unless Steve has made the art for it already.

I don't run your network. I just show up and

run my mouth. He said it, folks. I didn't say

it. He said it. It's the truth. Any final thoughts

before I run through the closing, sir? There

is this great moment in... I can't remember which

book it is. I think it's the second book, even

though it's about Lucas and Star Wars. Well,

not Lucas and Star Wars, but... So, Craig is

a big fan of THX 1138. Yep. And there's a wonderful

moment... Because it's in the book, by the book.

But there's a wonderful moment where, like, you

kind of... I don't know how to explain exactly

like the the power of fandom George comes into

his office and see something that he has that

Craig has Craig is a fan. Yep, and George the

guy who created it doesn't have it Yeah, right

Exactly. Like how did you get that? Yeah, and

then of course, you know, Craig gives it to George

but like That's you know, like I think about

like forestry Ackerman I think about all these

guys that like get their dirty little hands on

these Bits of things it's like because the people

who make these these movies and these TV shows.

It's a job They're not sent to me some at this

point I think some of them more fans to get to

get in on it But like, you know, a lot of them

aren't sentimental about it. This is just a prop

This is a thing. This is a poster. This is a

thing costume And it's for this thing and then

it's done. It's left to rot. It's thrown away

and Fans come in like little rats like little

Jawas and grab it and preserve it and keep it

and eventually they coalesce into museums and

you know, like I as a collector myself I generally

don't like to own that kind of stuff because

I go full Indiana Jones. It belongs to a museum

Like I don't want the responsibility of preserving

To me history cultural history. Yeah, but I remember

the story about how like if you toured Universal

at some point you could see the the ships from

V the old 80s science fiction show V You could

just see the fighter ships rotting in the in

the Sun, you know, it was sad like it's there

are times where it's sad that this is just a

job to these guys And there is no preservation.

There is no sense of and I think Lucas was was

Ironically, Lucas is one of the guys who kind

of bucks that trend because he kept all that

he kept The thing we're talking about wasn't

a thing that he would necessarily have or keep

but like, you know He's got that collect. He

had that collection. I don't know I don't know

who's in charge of it now, but like um It's just

it's a cute little moment between two people

one was a fan of the other and like It's kind

of a neat thing. Like hey, I got something George

Lucas doesn't have Yeah, it's very very cool.

It's a nice little fan moment. And yeah, you're

right. Absolutely preservation because like,

you know What's gonna happen in 50 years when

we're gone whoever else is gonna school here

Okay, but yeah, I know I know but I'm saying

like I always think about there's a great I was

a big fan to go off on a tangent There was this

show on Comedy Central called Dr. Katz. Yep.

Yeah, there's this great one I can't remember

who the comedian was because he played a piece

on the show Katz was a psychiatrist and then

his patients were like stand -up comedians So

the shtick was they would do their routine as

like therapy as as there as he's giving them

therapy They're doing their routines. I can't

remember who it was, but there was some guy talking

about how he built Star Trek models and how he

knew when he died his kids were gonna be in the

basement Like, what is this crap? What is this

crap? Where's all the money? And I think about

that a lot in my basement. You know, what is

all this crap? Where's all the value? Yeah. Well,

George's kids are like, what is this Maccat of

Drew B. McCool? Where's my $10 billion? Dad.

So, yeah, folks, that's yeah. Things must be

preserved. All right Yeah, so that's gonna do

it for this episode Thank you for joining us

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