Podcast Approach with Terry Smith on Music Talks Podcast

Hellooo, Mets! This is Jesse from Rock Sugar,

and you're listening to the GeekCats Radio Network.

Keep it right here. We'll give you the whole

seat, but you'll only need the a - There's nothing

wrong with your podcast player did not attempt

to adjust the volume Hello and welcome back into

our studio. You are now inside studio 2009 only

on the geek cast or your network I am of course

TF2 and Mike and for our latest podcast approach,

which is our 100th episode today We welcome a

guy called Terry Smith. Terry was Working in

IT for about 38 years or so including an extremely

long stint at Microsoft, but he is so much more

than that Terry is a high fine nut and he started

music talks podcast June 25th, 2019. And because

I'm very much an anal retentive about numbers

myself, technically music talks podcast actually

has 124 episodes. So when Terry does the albums

of the year for 2024, there will be 125 episodes,

unless he splits it up into two parts, which

we know he will do right. Yep. I had the pleasure

of being on Terry's podcast in episode 12, and

I was and am Mike Blanchard, Transformer Man.

Since December 3rd, 2019, Terry and I have also

recorded six other podcast episodes of my show,

Geekcast Radio, the flagship show here on the

Geekcast Radio network, Geekcast Radio. Five

out of those six were all about my favorite band,

Blackstone Cherry. So we are definitely gonna

be blend charting the heck out of this podcast.

and taking Terry through how he listens to podcasts

and how he got his podcast started. And we will

try to convince him that there are many more

music talk stories he needs to get. Hi, Terry,

how are you? I am good, my pleasure, as always,

to be here and to hear your energetic voice.

Yes, well, you've heard that intro like five

times in the last week and a half, so. Gets better

each time. Yeah, I just feel like I'm drooling

on but anyway getting started as podcasters When

did you first discover podcasts and what was

the first one you listened to interesting question?

Because my answer is actually that I can remember

2017 although I'm sure I would have listened

to stuff before That but given that I can't remember

it that probably says it all so yeah in 2017

Two things happen. One, I retired from the IT

career you mentioned in July. And two, around

about the same time, a friend said to me, you

have to listen to this thing called The Daily,

which is a podcast from the New York Times, which

I did. And that really got me into it. And very

quickly after that, a great podcast that, well,

they're both still going, that was called Song

Exploder. So those were the first Mid 2017 and

those were the first two that really. Back to

me and got me interested. So then it was about

two years before you after listing that you really

wanted to start your own or was it earlier than

that? It was earlier, so it was actually about

a year later. The story I used to tell was that

I was invited onto Jesse Jackson set listing

Bruce podcast. What actually happened was that

as part of my getting into podcasts I found this.

and I sent him a mail or a text saying, could

I please be on your podcast? Not realizing at

the time that if you're a podcast host, that

is actually joy when people do that. Oh, yeah.

So I went on to I went on as a guest and I didn't

go on with the intention of. Setting up a podcast

but i had started doing these evenings on a tuesday

evening you know you mentioned being a high find

that i had the high five system in the basement

in a classic american house. I am i wife had

something else on on a tuesday night so i started

inviting a friend around different one each time.

All few drinks i cook some food and we listen

some music and i did about four of those and

then thought so. How is this going? And the reality

is I was having a great time. But it did sort

of consist of me playing something 60 seconds

from something that I loved very loud and screaming,

isn't it great? Doesn't it sound fantastic? But

I thought, I'm not sure how much the guest is

enjoying it. And sadly, I can't remember when

I came up with the idea, but I came up with this

idea that just said, hey, Send me some songs

make it a song from each decade of your life

it doesn't have to be your favorite song doesn't

have to be a favorite band but it has to be a

song that says that's the nineties when i hear

that i think nineties. I'm people just love the

format. I'm not became clear very obvious and

people started sending me the long list and the

medium list in the short list and all this. So

i went on to the show with jesse and really really

enjoyed it i mean he's just a lovely generous

host. And so at the end I said, and we were about

to move back to the UK from Seattle. I said,

have you got five minutes? He said, yes. I asked

him how he got into podcasting and I said, look,

I've been doing these evenings and I wonder if

it'd be a format for a podcast. And Jesse being

Jesse said, wow, that's fantastic. Yeah. And

I never thought I'd hear anything again, frankly.

And shortly afterwards, he sent me an email saying

I've talked to the network and you're on. So

we then did a number of pilot episodes under

the name of Tea Time with Terry. And obviously,

you know, the move back to the UK was pretty

time consuming. So as you said, it was June the

following year when I finally sort of went solo

under the banner of Music Talks because Tea Time

with Terry is a great name for a golf podcast.

So that was when it started. But yeah, it sort

of happened by accident, but I'm so glad it did.

Let's see I remember like though like I had I

had to go back and find tea time with Terry but

The way you spelled it was like you're having

an English cup of tea not golfing which is TEE

That is indeed true. I would have never thought

it would have been a golfing podcast Well, I'll

tell you why I say that because I went on a it

sounds very grand. It was a Guardian masterclass

Which the guardians and newspaper in the UK a

master class was a bunch about 120 people in

a hotel room on a Tuesday night The guy said

is anyone started podcasting, you know, what's

your name and I said tea time with Terry and

He said what do people think that's about and

somebody said tea and I went no and somebody

said Terry and I said sort of and Then this woman

looked at me and she said it's obviously a golf

podcast Which given that she hadn't seen it spelled

was a perk. So at that point it was like, okay,

scrap it. So you've kind of given a little bit

of the details of what your plan was, but how

did this, you had the plan of each... you know

one song from each decade of your life what was

the plan after that how was how are you gonna

get this off the ground what were you gonna do

with it what were your ultimate goals with it

etc etc. So i mean jesse was a great help and

the pilot episodes really helped. And as i always

say to people the reality is if i had a plan

it was irrelevant in the sense that. Certainly

my intention when i started it was. It was going

to be a music nerd podcast and right the way

through it retained an element of that and it

depended on the guests but you know what actually

happened was that very quickly it clearly was

a show where when people went back and reflected

on what songs they were picking guests were coming

on and basically telling their life story so

you know one of the big joys for me is that i

started off with one idea which was based around

music nerdery and it became something else which

actually felt really really exciting and in terms

of the practicalities you know the pilot episodes

helped uh the court the guardian course really

helped and the one thing i always quote back

to people is the guy who ran it said if you're

doing if you've got a format that you would do

if no one was listening you are on to something

and that that has always stuck with me because

just like today you know it's great that people

listen to it and you know I am so grateful I

could never have imagined that you know tens

of thousands of people would um would listen

I I did actually write a little document that

said you know my goal was to have Tens of people

worldwide listening now i'm glad to say that

you know for each episode hundreds of people

listen we never got to thousands but that's fine.

So you know it was it was more about the people

and the conversation and i guess the other thing

that stuck with me from that course was. He also

said that ninety three percent of podcasts don't

get to episode eight. Yeah you know people started

they find it's hard work and they. Fall by the

wayside other people like you and jesse a machine

to you know do thousands of episodes which i

can just. I have massive respect for so i guess

that the other plan was i was determined i was

gonna get to episode ten. He tried to out machine

me. I was talking to him yesterday so it's quite

ironic that i've had the two of you in two days.

No, he, uh, when I had him on episode 97 and

I did his podcast approach, he said that his

kind, like he started just before setlisting

Bruce and whatever on some other stuff. But he

said he can trace his back to like 2014, 2015.

And I said, oh, cool. Awesome. Which technically

means I've out machined, I mean, overall content.

I mean, he's got. 1200 or so just over 1200 almost

maybe 1300 episodes of set listing Bruce and

then he's got Whatever he's got on perfectly

good podcast and whatever he's got on the next

stop everywhere the doctor who podcast I don't

remember off top my head for the other two but

I said, yeah Let me know when you're almost at

4 ,000 total over 40 different podcasts in 15

and a half years competitive me no, you think

oh boy so we're of the same mind on this folks

but in the in the 2024 landscape of podcasts

it seems like everybody who's starting in the

last two years or even shorter time than that

they're like ooh let's make it video let's do

this let's do that first of all folks When podcasting

was first debuted in 2005 at an Apple event,

Steve Jobs literally sat there on stage and said,

look, iPod broadcasting. Do you get it? It's

podcasting. So literally it's audio. But the

question is, which do you prefer audio or video

podcasting as a fan and as a producer? Uh, audio

a hundred percent of, um, I've never done a video

one. I don't like him and i'd like the technology

using today cuz it doesn't seem to have video

which is great and i know i am not a fan and

you know on my facebook. Which i spend a lot

of time on but it is very exceptional for me

to open a video it just doesn't appeal to me.

Yeah discord does do video and there are video

things that it can do but generally i use it

for audio because it's just easier. Uh, and yes,

audio, audio podcasts, you can take them anywhere.

Yep. You can take them on car rides. You can

go to the laundromat with them. You can go to

wherever you can just be around your house and

have it play through your, you know, hi -fi system

or whatever. You know what I mean? Like you,

they can literally go anywhere with you. It's,

it's a purely and you're listening to it. You're

paying attention to it, but at the same time,

you're getting other things done around the house

or whatever kind of thing. Yeah, and who wants

to spend 60 minutes looking at me or you? Yeah,

I don't know anyone wants to spend 60 minutes

and wants to look at me. Most people I think

Have you seen me? That guy. No, thank you All

right. What kind of setup did you have when you

started and what do you have currently? So when

i started it was pc it was a headset with a little

mic on it and i managed to choose the room in

the house that had the most echo and is it resonance

or whatever so it wasn't great but it worked

you know in the initial episodes are still up

there and that's what they were done but i am

a gadget guy so i now have a little attic room

at the top of the house. The only problem is

it doesn't have any central heating so in winter

i have to plan to put the heat on and then somebody

does get quite hot but i turn into a little studio

so the most important is i've got a road podcaster.

I also use a road mike. I can't remember i bought

some of those broadcast headphones you know that

have a mic attached. At one time i noticed i

use that these studies them but i have the mic

switched off and then a pc and it's actually

an old pc the only thing it does is podcasting

so there's you know there's no chance of anything

else interfering with it and i also have a second

monitor as well oh and a screen thing around

the mic Understand pop filter and all that stuff.

Yep. Yep. All of that good stuff. Very cool.

Which makes me able to do this. Hi, welcome to

music talks. It's my Tom weights impersonation.

See, that's why the show needs to go on anyway.

So being a gadget guy, if your headphones or

microphone or any part of the setup breaks down,

are you going to go back and buy the reliable

stuff you've been using? Or are you going to

use that chance to upgrade? Being a gadget guy

something breaking down is always quite good

news because it means you can buy something new

and different So yeah, I would I would certainly

upgrade. I am the exact opposite I go with what

works because I don't trust anything new There

is that there is that yeah, I've had in total

with even sending Miguel and I sent her a pair

of these I in total since 2012 I have no 2010

since 2010 I have bought the same pair of JVC

just regular headphones over the ear giant ear

cups whatever whatever whatever they're the JVC

HA 700s I believe without taking them off and

actually looking at the thing I remember that

correctly I've bought these things like four

to five different times in almost a decade and

a half And the only thing that has ever happened,

obviously, is over time, the ear cups have gotten

to the point where the cushioning is frayed off

or whatever, but everything else, it works for

music, it works for the podcast, it works for

whatever. So I can sit here and jam out and write

out three years worth of a podcast and be the

planner that I am for podcasting and not have

to worry about it. They don't even have noise

can't like, you know, most headphones will have

a button for noise cancellation. I just put these

things on and I'm in a vacuum. It's like, in

Venice on my hi -fi, I have a, in 2000, I bought

a set of Grado wooden headphones and I still

use them to this day and they're absolutely magnificent.

That's amazing. Did you think you'd be podcasting

for as long as you have on the basis? I didn't

have a plan then no, I guess What I do know is

at the start if someone had said you're gonna

do a hundred episodes with the you know And some

of these people are gonna be I wouldn't have

believed it I wouldn't have believed it and that's

why it's such a great journey So I sort of yes

and no, I guess Absolutely. Yeah, it's just,

it's a funny thing. Like if you, if you start

and like with your format and with the guests

that you've had on for all of your episodes,

uh, including the Christmas besides and the other

specials and the albums of the year and everything

else and all that it's podcasting to me has always

been getting together with whatever set of friends

you have. Like I have, I podcast with everybody.

Like me and my buddy Steve, for the longest time,

who created the network with me, we do stuff

every Monday night, we're recording later tonight

as this is being recorded. You'll hear this on

November 30th, folks, but we recorded this this

past Monday kind of thing, and we'll record something,

or we'll do something, and then I've got like

17 other friends, and now with these whole origin

stories between... The cartoons and comic books

and toy collecting and video games and everything

else next year. I'm adding a TV and movie version.

So yeah, it's like You just find people that

you like having a conversation with and just

have a conversation and it's absolutely, you

know You look back on it. You're like, oh I got

to the 50th episode cool. I got to the 70. Holy

crap. I'm at a hundred Oh boy. And in my case,

in most cases, I'm at 200, 300, 400 per show.

Obviously music talks came to an end this year,

but how would you say if you were going to continue

it, how have your podcasting goals changed since

you started five years ago compared to now? Oh,

that's a great question. I think. I'd probably

go back to that phrase about if you've got a

format where if no one was listening, you'd still

do it and you'd still enjoy it. And I think what

you've just said, Mike, is it's, you know, it's

about the conversation. It's about the connection.

It's about the people whilst it's lovely to have

listeners. And I've been blown away that, you

know, you, you have it just have it. There's

a, there's a core of music taught listeners who

I know have listened to every episode, which

I find incredible. Uh, and I'm incredibly proud

of that and touched by that, but yeah, I think

it's, it's that connection and the quality of

the conversation with the guest. I think that

that would be the main focus. Nope. All right.

Let's get into your podcast listenership as a

listener. What defines a good podcast to you?

Okay. Number of things for me, it has to be something

There has to be learning or insight or a story

in there. There's, you know, there's something

that will draw me. And so the daily, you know,

I think whilst, you know, you can, you know,

where the New York Times sits politically, but

actually I think they do a great job on the daily

of real journalism, where they present both sides

and they're aware and respectful of both sides.

And we need more of that. You know, Song Exploder

is artists taking a song breaking it down and

without fail, if there's someone, an artist on

there or a song that I know and love, I will

finish that 20 -minute episode thinking, wow,

I never realized that about that song and I listen

to it differently. Voice is really important

to me and that can be presenter or guest. I'm

a big fan, not surprisingly, given the music

talks focus and format. But I'm a big fan of

Desert Island Discs, which obviously started

in 1948 as a radio show. But all episodes are

now up on the podcast. And I started to listen

to one last night and I just didn't like the

guest voice. Yeah, you know, not her fault. I'm

also listening to that to go to sleep. So and.

How they handle adverts and or advertisements,

as you guys would call it. and how they keep

that to a minimum because I realize they're necessary

for the business model, but I do find them irritating.

So I usually say that my spiel on that for later,

but I'll say it now. Here's the thing. I understand

that there are a lot of services out there like

iHeartRadio here in the States, like other things

that need the pre -roll and the post -roll and

you have to, it's just like YouTube ads. You

gotta do mid -rolls somewhere. We are now a part

of RSS .com, and that has no adverts, so none

on anything. We were a part of Spreaker, which

before iHeartRadio bought them, they were great.

Spreaker requires, depending on the time length

of the episode, will require two, three, four,

five, whatever. So if you have a two and a half

hour podcast, You're probably going to have to

find some way to bury 25 ads or some weird number.

Yeah, it's really weird. Now how they did that

was they would have, you can do a single ad,

a double ad or a triple ad. So in general, let's

say this episode, if that was still going to

be the case from, let's say we did this three

years ago when we were still on Spreaker. If

they only required three ads. All is I'd have

to do is make one little thing, but how I do

it is you hear the whole conversation. We have

30 questions about podcasting here, folks. We're

only on question nine, 10 or whatever it is.

Yeah, we're only on question nine. So the proceeding

number of questions, you're going to hear all

of that. You're going to hear all 30 questions

that I asked Terry. Before at the end of it,

I will say, okay, we're going to go to a quick

ad break. You're going to hear some ads and some

other stuff and blah, blah. Yep. And then what

I would do is I would take the ads from that

I've gotten over the years from other podcasts.

I've got an ad for your show. I've got an ad

for Jesse's. I've got two ads for Jesse shows.

I've got other ads, whatever I would play and

promote. every all of my friends ads first but

I would bury the what what the company thing

needed in there so that way you don't hear like

if I ask you a question about like what is your

favorite part of the hi -fi sound now before

you even get a chance to answer that question

something might come out if I don't Manually

edit those ads it might be like oh my gas terry

this question all of a sudden would you like

to buy some sialis no no no you don't have the

ads interrupt the conversation you just don't

correct you manually and so many so many podcasts

do. It's that it's that clash between the content

of the podcast and. The advertisement you just

don't know beautifully but yeah that's what the

if people do decide to listen to music talks

and there are you know all the episodes are just

because there are no and that's not. Ever what

does a podcast have to have to draw you in. So

you listen to the first episode what do they

have to get to get you to come back. Okay that's

a good that's a great way of putting it. I think

it's back to my answer for the previous one of

just, you know, learning insight. You know, if

I think of my own podcast, one of the roles I

saw, particularly as it sort of started to change,

was one of my roles was to find music trivia

around my guest songs choices. And I know people

really like that. I think if I listen to something

and I was like, oh, wow, I never knew that. That

would make me want to listen to the next one.

So I think it's, you know, there's got to be

some sort of, or just, yeah, I mean, I think

that the quality, you know, I mean, I know we'll

talk later about what I listened to, but there's

one of my favorite podcast is, is a UK one called

The Rest is Politics. And the two presenters

are from opposite sides of the political sort

of spectrum. But actually, And they've been doing

it for three years now and they've clearly actually

become really good friends. But they do a great

job of having a respectful, interesting conversation.

And that's what drew me in. It was like, oh,

actually listening to these two guys discuss

stuff from different perspectives, that's interesting

to me. And I learned stuff. Very cool, very cool.

Alright let's talk about time length as a listener

do you prefer short thirty minutes to an hour

and thirty minute shows or do you prefer longer

podcast episodes as in two hours or more. I'm

at the shorter end i always want to music towards

to get under an hour but for a long for a long

time i sort of had seventy five minutes my rationale

was it was an hour of chat and fifteen minutes

of music. Towards the end, they did get shorter.

That's because the guy who is doing most of my

editing for me got pretty good about knowing

what I wanted in and out and also did a great

job of taking more and more of me out, which

I was pleased by. And there is always something

in, you know, if you're doing a music podcast,

if you can get to 45 minutes, that sounds feels

perfect to me because that's how much you can

get on a vinyl LP. But I only really managed

that when I did two part episodes, which I'm

sure You've discovered Mike. I don't know if

you ever do two parties, but with two exceptions

and I'm pleased. One of them is the final episode

where I was the guest. You normally lose a between

15 and 30 % of listeners on the second part of

a two -parter. Hmm. See, that's interesting because

I would think if you like how you left off most

of you when you did do two -parters a few times,

you did them. You would find a good stopping

point the same this same thing way i would do

it i would find a good stopping point and maybe

during the conversation i will say something

like. Okay folks that's gonna do it for right

now yada yada yada yada yada don't don't turn

in next week for the rest of the story is paul

harvey would say. What is your let me tell you

why i think i was sending i lost between fifteen

and thirty percent is. My audience was basically

made up of two parts one was people who knew

about the podcast and we're regular listeners

and the second would be friends of that episode

guest okay and therefore what i think happened

was that. One of two things would happen and

this is all speculation one is they'd listen

to the first part not like it. I like to think

more likely is they'd listen to the first part

and forget to listen to the second part. Because

they're not regular listeners. Yeah, I'm pleased

that there was me and there was a guy called

Mark Spickett And actually weirdly if you look

at our numbers, we've both got slightly more

listens for part two than part one I presume

people went back for a second time well that

and I wonder because again You're talking about

telling your story and mark story and everybody

else's story in these last five and a half years

You like hearing how the story began but you

also like I don't know a lot of like the middle

part of the story is also Ken and he is very

interesting but like people like beginnings and

endings So maybe that's maybe that's it. I don't

know. I couldn't tell you Speaking of beginnings

and endings as a listener Do you start at the

beginning of a podcast the most recent episode

or do you jump jump around? It depends how podcast

has been going for so i actually signed up for

a new one last week and there were only there

are only 12 episodes in so um with that i've

gone back to episode one uh if there's hundreds

or thousands then i will probably listen to the

most recent episode i will always go back to

the first episode and that's a tip for anyone

thinking of starting a podcast do spend time

on pilot episodes do spend time, make sure that

episode one is a good one. And I include audio

quality, because certainly in my case, episode

one is about 40 % more downloads than any other

episode. Very interesting. Maybe more actually,

because people I think do go to go back to the

first episode and have a listen. Yeah, absolutely.

And especially with a show like music talks,

like there are two shows that I would say that

I have Had to start from the beginning and luckily

at the time when they started, I caught them

at the beginning. I might've been a little bit

late to music talks because it was a suggestion

on Facebook and I tend to ignore Facebook suggestions,

even from really good friends like Mr. Jesse

W Jackson, but I was like, Oh, what now? Cause

that's my reaction on Facebook for every, no,

no, that's my reaction on Facebook for everything.

Oh, what now? But I eventually caught up but

it was your show music talks podcast I listened

from the beginning and it was another show at

the time called part -time nerds full -time dads

and it was about these I've told you this story

before it was these two guys Mike Laidman and

Chris Blonsky They were new fathers at the time

They were basically they used their podcast to

talk about the geeky gaming stuff that they like

talking about But they were also telling you

their journey about how both of their wives were

pregnant at the same time kind of thing. So you

went through a journey of how their children

were born. You can't just jump into part -time

nerds, full -time dads, episode six. You have

to start at episode one and then you can maybe

jump around like after the whole, like after

the first year of the podcast or so. Yeah. No,

it's, uh, yeah, it just depends. It depends on

what kind of podcast. If it's a news podcast,

you can start at the most recent episode because

you don't need to go back that far. But if it's

a podcast that tells a story or if it's a podcast

reviewing a specific television show, you're

not going to start an episode 50 of that television

show. You're going to want to start it. Yeah,

exactly. So As a listener how many voices are

too many on one episode? Four so two if you know

two interviewers and a guest works fine for me

I think well actually I'm just thinking back

to prior to the US election the daily So the

guy the main guy in the podcast is Michael Bob

Barrett He did do some round tables where there

was him and three and that worked But they were

very distant. You know, it was only one person

talking at a time and you were clear on who it

was so maybe five But I I I think once you go

above three, you've got to manage it pretty carefully

Yeah, you have to be an extremely amount of of

traffic control type of thing like like say it

was you and I and Jesse and One or two or three

other people. It's like, okay, so if it's my

show and I'm running the show Here's the topic.

What is your opinion your opinion your opinion?

everybody go at once give their opinion around

the table and Then we would then figure out the

rest of the stuff after that But yeah, it's very

much traffic control kind of stuff and in fact

Mike I've not thought about this before but going

back to your question about video cast I Guess

that is where video would start to be useful

if you're talking about, you know Five guests

if you're watching on video at least you can

see who's talking and you start to build up whereas,

you know doing that just with voices I think

that's you know, you're gonna spend it certainly

I would be spending more time thinking who's

this speaking than this into what they were saying

Yeah, that's why you have like we only ever do

more So for me three is a sweet spot because

three gets you three individual Opinions you

have the host and then the two guests or what

however you want us Title it whatever doesn't

matter. But when we would have five it's because

we need we were voting on things we like we do

our top like we do our top 100 various like top

of our TV shows or top 100 blah blah blah or

we would do these GCR wars things where we would

do like. SEC bracket type tournaments like NCAA,

like whatever kind of tournaments and we would

pit against each other. So you'd have to like,

if you're going to do, um, Steph Leppard versus

Jefferson airplane, you're going to need, okay.

I pulled it out of my ass, Terry. Sorry. I'm

actually thinking I'd like to hear that. Well,

the point is who would win in a fight? Who would

win in a, you know, musical fight of battle of

the bands, whatever kind of thing. And we would

do this thing of, oh, you have this vote, this

vote, this vote. You can't have a tie vote. There

has to be a winner. So in that case, you have

to have three, five, seven, you have to have

a number of people on the podcast to have a deciding

vote and not a tie. And that's where the juggling

and the traffic control and all that for the

voices really does happen. But yeah, generally

I, right now what we're doing one and two, it's,

it's, it's easy. It's fine. It's fun and all

that good stuff. Is there ever been a moment

when you just like, like you've been listening

to a podcast for a while and they release a new

episode and one of the hosts says something and

you're just like, Nope, I'm done. Do you ever

just stop listening altogether? No. You know,

thinking about that question, I tend to sort

of fade away, if that makes sense. I haven't

had that. OK, I've done. It was always a fear

with music talks that, you know, somebody and

I think quite rightly, I was always very careful

not to sort of censor in any way my guests. So

there was always that fear that somebody would

just go, no, I'd say I'm done. Don't like that

guest. I've had enough. But no for me, I just

tend to fade away and then I'll you know every

now and again I'll call The podcast that I followed

and think I haven't listened to that for ages

if I haven't you know get rid of it Absolutely.

All right. What podcasts are you currently listening

to? I'm probably mentioned most of them already.

So the rest is politics. There is a US version

of that includes the the two hosts one is and

I'll get his name wrong, but Anthony Scaramucci

when the guy who was Trump's press secretary

for 10 days. I have to say that initially put

me off but I'm warm to him. He's not as stupid

as I thought he would be by any means. So that

and then the UK one I just love. The Daily I've

talked about I still listen to that very regularly

along with Song Exploder although less of that

only because the song choices are getting more

modern and I listen to new music but you know

it's not hitting my taste as much as it used

to but when it does the format's brilliant. A

real favourite is there's a brilliant UK comedian

called Frank Skinner who's been around forever

but he absolutely adores poetry and he's brilliant

at talking about it so I listen to his poetry

podcast. I mentioned Desire Island Discs that

continues to be a favourite. Rock in the Suburbs.

And that interestingly, obviously, that, you

know, started as a podcast, but they now have

a radio side to that. So, you know, who knows,

might get involved at some point. I talked about

the Guardian in the printed and online content.

They have something called the long read where

they dive into a subject and they've turned that

into a podcast. They tend to run for about 30

minutes. About all sorts of weird and these are

my favorite was the one about the decline of

the fish and chip shop in the UK and the problems

they were hitting. Settlers and Bruce obviously

from Jesse and there's final music one is broken

record although I'm back to your thing about

format that tends to run on a bit sometimes but

that's what's on my phone at the moment. Very

cool very cool. Notice, folks, he doesn't listen

to anything here at the Geocast Radio Network.

That's because that is a default, Mike. You're

just trying to save your own skin. For the first

time, we should mention that this is the second

time we've done this because I didn't press record.

Last time you said, other than my podcast, what

do you listen to? All right, I'm gaming this

nice thing. Yeah. Well, I mean I know you do

a load of it. We have a ton of other stuff It's

not just video games. Trust me. It's video games

is actually new at this point for us this year

Yeah, was it anyway? Yeah. No, we have a bunch

of stuff over there Like we perfect example you

mentioned this in the in the episode Unfortunately

that no one will ever hear the first time we

recorded this When I went to the outro and I'll

go to the outro this time later down the line

here But you said when people are looking for

my show on things just search music talks Terry

Smith Because there are multiple other we have

an episode from our flagship show geek cast radio.

I think it's episode 297 the podcast name game

and Basically, it's me and my buddy Steve talking

about how podcast get their names and how you

should go about choosing your name for your podcast

and how is already is that name out there you

need to find something else. Because there wasn't

no that's my point that is the point though you

had the name music talks or music talks podcast

however you wanna name it. You had that name

so anytime after June twenty fifth of twenty

nineteen anyone who looked. If they did their

research on itunes on spotify on wherever google

doesn't matter. If they searched music talks

podcast and other names already came up whomever

started another one with that name they needed

to name their stuff something else because there

already was one. Like nobody's gonna come around

now we've been doing studio 2009 since twenty

twenty. And Studio 2009 is very specific as far

as the name goes, because it's me and Steve doing

various movies, and it's our all -encompassing

movies and TV thing, and now I have this podcast

approach stuff in here too, and video game stuff

as well. But the point was, anything in the audio

or visual realm, so if you can see it, if you

can watch it, if you can hear it, if you can

listen to it, we will discuss it on this podcast.

and studio because podcasts most of the time

if you can you make a room a studio or you actually

have a real studio and in 2009 was when the geek

cast radio network launched in June of 2009 so

no one's gonna come steal this name go find your

own name folks be original but the sad and I

agree with you see you've done a good job of

finding something unique but the reality is if

somebody wanted to they could They shouldn't.

They should have better common sense and respect,

but damn kids, get off my lawn. All right. Podcast,

that's right. I may not be as old as you, but

I'm still an old man, damn it. Get off my lawn,

you damn whippersnappers. Oh boy. Always bring

up the old man voice. See, folks, I've got him

giggling so much over there. All right. Podcast

production. As a producer, do you find yourself

listening to podcasts less and less? No because

i wasn't working at your rate or jesse's so i

mean it took up time obviously but no but i've

never be i mean you know i ran through that list

of. Stuff that i'm listening to but there's.

Yeah i probably don't listen to any of them more

than two or three times in a week so i'm still

a fairly low consumer. You talk about having

podcasts on when you're on doing stuff for me

that's gonna be music. I have to fit in music

sport and podcasts which. There's only so much

time in the day right. That's right that's right

as a producer are you a podcast planner are you

just throwing stuff at the mic to see what sticks

please don't throw stuff at me. Oh, very good.

Very good. We'll be back after a commercial.

No, we won't have a commercial break. That's

a fascinating question because, you know, my

initial response was planner. And then if you

think about how an episode of Music Talks ran,

I only had two pre -planned questions, which

was one at the start that said, can you just

do a PEM portrait of who Mike is? And at the

end, I would ask final thoughts. The rest of

it was genuinely free format. Now, one of the

beauties of the format is because you go from

decade to decade, there is a structure in there,

but I deliberately wouldn't sort of pre -plan

too much because I wanted it to be a conversation.

And, you know, okay, we're having a conversation

today around a set of questions, but conversations

tend not to be pre -planned. So it was always

important to me that it was spontaneous. And

again, and I use the word a lot of joy, part

of the joy was just that spontaneity and people

would start talking about things. And, you know,

and one of the things I learned was that don't

worry about asking the awkward question, because

if you really get it wrong, you can edit it out.

And I actually never had someone go, I don't

want to answer that or I don't want to talk about

that. So yeah, a little bit of structure, but

then free format. Absolutely. So the definition

for this question is kind of like how sometimes,

and we meant at this point, just like on his

own podcasts, anytime you mentioned Bruce Springsteer,

anytime you mentioned John Hyatt, take a drink.

Anytime we mentioned Jesse Jackson, folks, take

a drink. So the way that i'm gonna phrase this

is are you are you as a producer are you a one

man show kind of host or do you prefer working

with coast basically what it kind of goes back

to the voices question a little bit but it's

more of. Are you there to do your own show and

just talk to the audience by yourself? Or do

you prefer like what we're doing where there's

two people and it's a back -and -forth? Yeah,

I mean the majority of stuff I've done. It's

just been me. I have done Multiple stuff. I've

done a few with Jesse my you mentioned, you know

albums of the year I do with my friend who I

met through the podcast Stephen Routledge and

we're about to do this year's on December the

fifth, uh, he sent me his list through yesterday

for the first time ever. We had three. Choices

that were the same, which is weird, but we've

worked that one out. But yeah, I think generally,

uh, I can do both and I enjoy both, but I liked

at the end of my control free. I liked the solo

thing. And that was one of the reasons I never

sort of looked to monetize the podcast or whatever.

Cause I realized I did have a couple of conversations

with organizations and I realized there was an

element of control. Inevitably, I was going to

lose and I didn't want to lose that. Yes, folks,

podcasters. We are control freaks. Indeed. As

a producer, do you feel like you need a mixing

board and all the fancy stuff that would usually

be found at a radio station? Are you good with

a great mic and headphones set up? I said before,

I'm a gadget guy. I love my Rodecaster Pro. So,

yeah, and it's, you know, it's got. It's got

pretty lights on it and also in being serious

for a moment. You know, one of the things the

road caster allowed me to do is to put the song

clips onto, you know, the little pads. So in

case you haven't heard the theme music to music

talks. And that really actually helped because

it meant when I first started it, we would get

to the song choices and I would say, let's take

a listen to Fleetwood Mac. pause, whereas actually

being able to play the music and the guests could

hear it at the other end. And also, you know,

from Tim point of view, it was seamless. So,

you know, it did actually have a real benefit.

So it wasn't just me being a gadget guy, but

I do like my gadgets. Absolutely. As a producer,

how much time do you put into the editing of

the show when you were editing your show? So

I'd never done any editing when I started. And

I'm really glad that I went through that learning

curve of being able to do it myself. I remember

the day I realized that I could actually cut,

I knew the shape of my, you know, I could look

at a weapon, go, ah, yeah, there it is, there

it is. Just did it again. But. I got to the point

where i was probably spending at least eight

hours maybe more on an episode and i realized

that what was happening was that the more i learned

the longer it was taking more. Which i'm sure

somebody somewhere you know it will be cool stravinsky's

law or something will be somebody will have named

that and then i decided to get some sort of outside

help so the first guy john wills and he was a

musician audio guy who. got involved just before

lockdown and that kept him going through that

but what John did primarily was just take out

the airs the ums and you know the obvious stuff

I then he then went back to being a musician

I then just found another guy to do the editing

Andy and Andy just happened to be living in Ukraine

so we started working together about two weeks

before his first daughter or his first child

and daughter was born and about six weeks before

the Russians invaded and we worked all the way

through despite his street literally and he lives

in a lovely old town called LV on the east of

Ukraine and despite a missile literally landing

in his street and power cuts and all of this

he never missed an episode and I will always

and I'm still in touch with him obviously And

I will always be so grateful to him, but he took

on a bigger role as I joked about before but

He got really good at knowing what I wanted in

and out and just and it it was interesting to

lose a bit of control over the show You know

because he would send me he would send me stuff

back and there was times I go And if there was

ever anything I wanted to put back in he had

he'd done the sound bit on the whole recording

so I could do that but It became less and less.

Um, so, uh, but yeah, editing, I think is something

if you can, my view is if you're going to do

podcasting, you have to learn to edit yourself,

not least of which, and it was always a great

reassurance with Andy. God forbid, if he couldn't

do an episode, I knew that I could go back to

doing it all myself if I had to. And it's nice

to learn a new skill. Absolutely. And you know,

if anything ever comes up, I've been doing this

for a long time now. Anyway, Well, the final

thing on editing and you mentioned control, you

meant, I think you mentioned control freak and

retentive. Edit control freak. Yeah, very much

so. You can get really, really nervous about

it. Yeah. But there's also that joy. And there's

that word again, when, you know, something's

gone wrong and you actually managed to edit it

and put it together. And it sounds that that's

actually how I said it the first time. And it

sounds perfect. Even though you didn't, I always

got a kick out of that. I always have been using

this this comparison now for the last couple

of episodes in the last couple of months. And

probably all of my English teachers are going

to scream at me for saying this and I am not

an English teacher. I'm not an educator, but

the way I look at podcasting and the way I look

at the editing of the podcast is. You I feel

like my English teachers are wrapping me across

the knuckles if I put the wrong word in or if

I put an extra word in so all the I Am e um you

um they um blah blah um um e ah Ting tang walla

walla bing bang I look at how I'm editing the

shows as Making it the best I can possibly make

it making it as not just concise, but making

it a flowy conversation so it does like there's

no unnecessary silences it's all stuck together

it's all this it's all that and if there are

things that i have to come cut out like terry

what's your favorite beatle song if you took

five seconds longer than what i knew you would

probably take on that answer and you said um

before you answered it i would cut that take

it out take that out and just have your answer

yeah yeah and the other thing that is a challenge

is when you're doing that is to make sure you're

still keeping the pace of the conversation absolutely

you know that it's not overedited and there was

a few episodes where there was a bit of that

but yeah i said final before but the other sort

of observation i'll make and this is just a personal

view but if you ever respond to that voice in

your head that says yeah but who will notice

then maybe it's time to stop podcasting because

for me my view is always I don't care. I will.

I and this is the point of and I've I was editing

Jesse shows for a while last year and I only

got to edit Jesse shows for a while last year

because I kept telling him like You forgot this

in the editing. You forgot that in the editing.

There's a giant space of dead air here I would

tell him this privately. I'm not gonna even though

Quote -unquote outing it now. It's fine. It is

what it is But that's how if it if it doesn't

sound good to my ear or if it's something that

catches me off I will notice it but it's not

just with my own shows. It's with everything

I listen to now I don't obviously give everybody

feedback on it because nobody wants an asshole

for a listener, but You know it's just one of

those things where i hopefully it always looked

at hopefully people always look at that is me

being helpful to them because i want the shows

i listen to as well as the shows that i produce

to be the best possible thing we can make it

absolutely my absolutely you know and i also

think back to this that other awful moment where

you've taken something out and twenty minutes

later the guest says so as i mentioned and you're

like Okay, I'm going back. Either I take the

whole thing out or I'm going back and I'm reinsert

because I and when I'm listening to if there's

those things that you know. That sort of discontinuity

if that's a word that really irritates me so

yeah continuity is everything folks alright as

a producer do you prefer in person recordings

like if you and your lovely wife Laura were to

ever do her story on music talks podcast you'd

be sitting across from each other or Do you just

refer what we're doing and what we have been

doing for ever which is over the internet? I've

never done an in person recording. And that's

not deliberate. I mean, obviously, the nature

of the show and my guests was it was all it was

always going to be over the internet. But I personally

I mean, it would maybe be fun. Maybe I'll just

do it as I mean, there's, there's a really good

friend of mine who lives two doors away. He's

now recently retired musician. And we meet up

for beers every couple of weeks. And I just like

you. hang me about getting Laura to do music

talks I hang Gary about writing his book because

the man has got so many great stories and you

know one of the things I have offered to him

is hey let's just sit and have a conversation

and I'll record it you know you don't have to

be writing a book yeah so it might be interesting

to do that Face -to -face, but I think you know

if I were ever to restart music talks or do another

podcast then my design Criteria would be to do

it like this You know besides anything else when

two people are sat in a room Your brain is doing

an awful lot of processing because you're looking

at someone and all of that body language and

everything else going on whereas here There's

two people talking and we're listening to each

other Yeah, and you're right and I've done two

in -person recordings in 15 and a half years

one I've done two I've only done two and it was

it was fine because all as I did was I we used

audacity actually Because it was just easier

since I only had one microphone Steve my buddy

Steve had come up when Karen and I got married

because he was my best man for the wedding So

we did like a little after because Karen and

I weren't going on. It wasn't one of those 1980s

weddings where, you know, you smash the glass

or you do whatever you're going to do. You do

the, the, the, the love shack and then you go

off to the honeymoon. Did you make it somewhere?

We didn't take our honeymoon until a year, almost

a year later. So Steve and I, we went back and

Karen was tired. So she went to bed and we just

did a quick little five minute, 10 minute thing,

sat next to each other, looked at each other.

We've been looking at each other over the internet

for the last X number of years. This is weird.

And then the other one was when I interviewed

at Nero, Eddie Nero, Big Ed from Big Ed's barbecue

in Waukegan, Illinois. He has this restaurant

called Big Ed's barbecue. They deal in barbecue

and meats and everything else. And they had this

Matthew the sheriff burger challenge. It's this

giant. Think of what's his name, Adam, what's

his damn name, the guy, the food guy, the man

versus food guy is similar to that. So it's one

of those burger type challenges. So I interviewed

Ed every year does this big Thanksgiving thing

where you'll, you can either send your turkeys

in or send your stuff in and he'll make you this

whole dinner or on Thanksgiving for those less

fortunate. They would, he would, he and his team

would actually go deliver. full Thanksgiving

meal type stuff to two people who were less fortunate

kind of thing and I wanted to interview him for

that because at the time back in 2019 he had

already been doing it for four years and I had

him sitting right here next to me next to the

desk and it was it was fine it was fun it was

awesome but yeah over the internet is much easier

because we're each in our own spaces we're comfortable

in our own spaces and we're perfectly fine so

but I do think And as you said at the start,

and the other thing is, it's audio, you know,

that's that's where the focus should be. Yeah,

absolutely. But I do think as much as he says,

folks, that I hound him, I lovingly hound him

because her story needs to end. But I do think

if you did do that, you would have to do it in

person with you all sitting next to each other.

You couldn't just stick her in a different room

and you in a different room. Not gonna happen

anyway my not gonna have damn shame folks He

won't sell out because I'd buy that for more

than a dollar. Trust me. I would oh boy Okay,

so this is a feed question and this feed question

is because I've known podcasts that do multiple

fit like You take all of Jesse's stuff and you

throw it into one feed kind of thing instead

of each show having its own feed. So as both

a listener and a producer, do you prefer one

feed have everything or should each type of show

have its own feed? So let's say for example,

you've got TV show of the week, movie of the

week and music release of the week. Should that

all be one podcast or should each of those be

their separate thing? yeah i mean it's one of

those yes no maybe answers i i think i are on

the side of each show should have its own feed

so if i take the example the rest is politics

you know they have there's a uk version there's

the u .s version so they're obviously different

that makes sense they then do something called

leading which is in -depth interviews with one

individual and they back to then they typically

run for well over an hour. And that has a separate

feed. But what they do in the main feed is they

will have they have the the school where the

two of them talk about issues, they then have

a readers or listen readers, listeners questions.

And they put those into one feed, you could argue

they should be separate. But you know, I always

think the simpler you can make it For the listener

to know what they're gonna get the better You

know absolutely Is I think as soon as as soon

as you're asking the reader I've done it again

soon as you're asking the listener To oh now

is it this one or is it that one then the danger

is that they'll go in fact It's not not good.

I'll go and do something else or I'll listen

to something else. So Yeah, and I think people

knowing what they're gonna get is a good thing.

Yeah, absolutely 100 % Yeah, like we're not like

so we do we do cartoon review shows sometimes

we do full -on cartoon review shows so because

we're Cartoon people around here. So let's say

we have a GI Joe cartoon, a Transformers cartoon,

and a He -Man cartoon. All three of those, because

they are all three different television shows,

cartoons, whatever you want to call them, they

each would get their own feed. Whereas if you

did an overall discussion on each of those topics,

like if you're doing the history of them, those

could go on Geekcast Radio as a simple episode

per franchise kind of thing. But if you're going

to do the episodic reviews, then yes, it would

have to go on its own feet. The other kind of

just going back to the rest is politics is just

from a branding marketing point of view. They

actually are part of a company called Goalhanger.

And the reason it's called Goalhanger is the

company was started by a guy called Gary Lineker,

who was a very famous English soccer player.

He's also the highest paid BBC presenter because

he does the football program on the BBC. And

all of the, all of the podcasts and the goal,

goal hanger are called the rest is nice. So you've

got the rest is politics. The rest is history.

The rest is football. And that's quite clever.

I think that's quite clever. Yeah, absolutely.

So I call them co -hosts, but it is what it is.

Other people that are on the show, but how do

you go about finding your coasts or your guests?

Well, guests was literally, I mean, at the start.

Again going back to that course i went on you

know i very there was one guy larry howser who'd

also been instrumental in the podcast getting

off the ground and is a dear dear friend i wanted

him in my first five the other four were all

people i obviously wanted on the show but they

all had a very large social media network so

this was part of my plan to get to a million

listeners in four weeks that didn't happen but

you know it was a great start to the podcast

and from then on There was a guy, Kevin Clement,

he was the first person who got in touch with

me when it was still tea time with Terry to say,

who I'd never met, I'd like to be on your podcast.

And then it was a mix of friends, friends of

friends, and then people, you know, people getting

in touch saying, I've heard the podcast I'd like

to be on. And I'm pleased to say, you know, finding

guests. was never a problem my admin and organization

and getting them booked in on the right days

and giving them enough time wasn't always what

it should have been but. Yeah as i say i'm pleased

to say that was never a problem and if i was

ever to start again i think i have a running

list of about eleven or twelve people that i'm

thinking oh they'd be quite good. And then co

-hosts i mean the only one i really do is my

albums the year with steven and steven was a

guest and actually he was someone i didn't know

at all came through jesse again and then when

we were exchanging email about him coming on

music talks we realize that we lived about forty

five minutes away from each other that's amazing.

Absolutely absolutely. What i'll tell you was

because on the basis that hasn't been a springsteen

story yet. I'll tell you a very quick Springsteen

story. So we were down in London at the end of

July to see him live. We're in Wembley Stadium

so it's 92 ,000 people and we're in the pit as

we always try to be and we always go to the back

of the pit near the camera because you get a

bit of space around there and with about 15 minutes

before he came on Laura looked at me and said

we never do selfies let's do a selfie. to which

the woman who was stood there was a couple stood

near us and we'd sort of exchanged niceties and

she said oh let me take that and then Laura and

her got talking and Laura said oh you're Scottish

you know you live down here she said no we travel

down to cut long story short they live 440 yards

away from us they moved in six months ago and

their neighbors and it's like hold on there's

92 ,000 people in this I don't know, neighbors

we didn't know stood next to us, and we've met

them since, so that's lovely. That's amazing.

It just goes to show you folks, music is a powerful

thing and it brings people together. It is. Unfortunately,

due to all of the things with YouTube and Spotify

and everything else, you folks aren't going to

hear any music in this episode because I can't

put anything in without us getting doxxed. That's

just the way it is here in the US. It's it's

it's a whole thing and it sucks because it ruins

the creativity But anyway speaking of social

media, how did you use social media to promote

your podcast? So Facebook page About five hundred

and something people on that I would do obviously

post that the episode was out But I would put

up video clips of the guest song choices anything

else that come up The earlier days I did use

Twitter as well, but I'm afraid my like so many

people that tailed off for obvious reasons and

I don't use it. I mean, I've still got a handle

on there, but I don't use it at all. I haven't

yet signed up for. Is it blue sky blue sky? I

will. And to be honest, you know, when people

say, so why did you decide decide to stop? That

was one of the sides of. that was starting to

just feel a bit like an overhead and frankly

i realized i wasn't being as diligent about it

as i had been in the early days as well but you

know i don't know you but i have no idea what

people see on facebook or what goes into feeds

and what doesn't and why do i see so you know

i guess a bit disenchanted by all of that these

days so with but it's only helping me absolutely

with facebook specifically. Hey, and with all

of the social media I'm on, I curate it to like

an Nth degree. Again, going back to the whole

anal retentiveness of myself. In Facebook specifically,

you can do, would you like to see this in your

normal feed, your favorites feed, your this feeder,

your that feed. it's something that I wanted

to see first all of the time every time I would

put it in the favorites feed so music talks podcast

would always come up when you would make a post

about any whether it was the video stuff because

you're talking about the The stuff that was in

the in the episode or whether it was the episode

itself So I would always see music talk stuff

first so that's how I've always done it and everything

else is just everything else, but Lately Facebook

and all of these social media algorithms have

just been too damn weird. And on there now, there

are so many advertisements for pages that I don't

care to follow. Like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm,

I'm organizing a Microsoft. I do it every year

and I only invite people who are friends and

you know, the number of people who've got in

touch because somebody else has mentioned them

to say, I didn't see the event i haven't seen

it and it's like hold on i'm posting to you every

week yeah you know i mean i'm almost like do

i take the first half hour of this year's reunion

to just say go and go and write down your email

address for next year and i'll just email everybody

the other days when you could just reach out

and get a connection uh i've gone and it is you

know anyone who's thinking about starting a podcast

don't underestimate you know that side of it

i remember again in that course You know somebody

talking about patreon if you wanna monetize and

it's like so you know and it looked at a podcast

and said you know here's a podcast and it's got

over a hundred patreon subscribers and the guy

said we have to remember is people now expect

a relationship with you. And they expect a connection

and you know. That's not managing a hundred relationships

is not an insignificant amount of time. You know,

it's not simply a case of, Oh, send me your money.

So absolutely. Well, and the thing with Patreon

is like, that's for bonus content. That's to

me personally, and Steve and I are going through

this for other upcoming things next year on Geekcast

Radio Network, but I told him I said I am NOT

if we go down the route of having a membership

for Geekcast Radio I am NOT gonna have a tier

for $1 $2 $3 whatever it is for someone to get

the episode like this episode We're recording

right now when I publish it when it goes online

to all of the feeds Everybody gets it. Nobody

gets exclusive early access to me because that

does to me. I don't see that as a perk. What

I see a perk of is hey, you want to be on the

podcast and you're not a normal host or you're

like you're just you've been listening like like

how you go to conventions and things and you'll

pay to see somebody like. Or no, not not conventions

that since it's musical like. You can go to a

Bruce Springsteen podcast. Wow. You can go to

a Bruce Springsteen concert and you can just

have whatever normal seat you have, whatever.

But you can also, if you get lucky enough to

pay for backstage passes or if you pay for a

meet and greet, that's, that's a bonus to me.

My listeners, your listeners, any listener of

a podcast, getting to hear the podcast early

before everybody else, that's just exclusionary

to me. It doesn't feel like so. I that's what

patreon is to me. It's it's bonus content. It's

content that isn't in the regular like if we

were gonna like if it's something it's something

over and above shouldn't be an entry point to

the just on tickets and ticket bastard as they're

affectionately know what I do get annoyed about

is when you're They're trying to sell me a VIP

ticket, which costs 400 pounds next to a standard

ticket that costs 100. Cause that's not a VIP

ticket. That's just, you're ripping me off. That's

just an upcharge. You're just charging me four

times more than the guy sat next to me. But I

mean, like, and I don't know what the example

would be, but okay. Let's say you and Laura are

going to come to the States. Let's say, I don't

think this is going to happen, but let's say

as an example. He's going to retire and his last

show is going to be in Jersey. You're going to

want whatever special package. Like, like I said,

a meet and greet or a chance to go on stage with

him or whatever, or whatever. You're going to

want that special thing. If it's his last show,

anybody, not just Bruce could be anybody, but

like you're going to want that to me is special.

Me me getting to hear the concert or the podcast

or whatever before anybody else. That's not special

That's just is what it is the whole thing. All

right few more questions here. We're almost done.

What is you? I'm actually interested to know

what other topics but what is your favorite topic

to discuss on a podcast? I wonder what that could

be folks Well, obviously music but as I said

if you look at where music talks sort of how

it changed from my original plan, then I actually

think my favorite thing to talk about on a podcast

is people and people's stories. And I know I've

told you this before, but when I joined Microsoft

in 95, I'd been in the company six weeks. We'd

been over to Canada for the big kickoff event.

MSN was launched a week later. Windows 95 was

launched. It was an amazing time. And I went

for a bite of food with my boss into the canteen

for lunch. And I said to him, I'm absolutely

loving it, but I've never actually received an

official job description. And he looked at me

and he went, oh yeah, I'll send that to you when

I get back. And I got back to my desk and this

mail came through and the title said job description.

And I opened it and it had one word in it and

it said storyteller. So I love telling stories.

I can't tell a joke to save my life, but I love

telling stories. I love listening to stories.

And as I discovered with Music Talks, what happened

was that music was just the jumping off point

for people to tell stories. So that's my favorite.

So I like stories. Very cool. Very cool. What

do you see as the differences in podcasting versus

being on the radio? Well, I guess my first answer

is maybe I'll find out because that's one of

the options I'd like to explore is potentially

doing a bit of radio. You know, he's got a great

face for radio. And, you know, I also mentioned

before that I listened to Desert Island Discs,

which has been a radio show since 1948. or 42,

can't remember, for a long time in the UK, and

you literally think, well, it's just a brilliant

podcast format. I think it's that if I was to

go with anything, it's that listening to it and

thinking, this person or these people are talking

to me, you know? Whereas I think there's radio,

there's a broader side to it, if that makes any

sense. But yeah, I guess the answer is I need

to go and do a bit of radio and then come back

and tell you. The original release date for desert

island this was January 29th 1942 42 it was 42

so middle of the war. Yep. Yeah, if you go on

to I'm assuming the BBC sands app works Overseas,

but they've got a literally every episode since

1942 up there and It is a fascinating listen

a fascinating listen. Yeah, absolutely. So obviously

folks music talks podcast was an interview show

And this is more of a question that was, I don't

know, it used to be in our other, one of our

other things kind of thing, but if you've done

any interviews with famous people, which was

your favorite? Yeah, I mean, famous is an interesting

word, isn't it? But I guess if I do that English

thing and water it down a bit to notable, what

notable people did you have? So there are a number

on podcast. So the first one, and I've mentioned

it a few times already, is that my guest on episode

four was actually Rishikesh Herway, who is the

host of Song Exploder. I'd love to say that I

use my network to do that, but I actually donated

to charity to get him. And my only regret with

that, I really enjoyed that, but I actually wish

I'd done it later. because obviously it was early

on during the podcast and I think I'd have enjoyed

the conversation more with less nerves, had a

great musician called Will Stratton, go onto

Spotify, he's done six albums and actually the

episode before him, his actual name is Will Lulufs

and the episode before was his dad Tim who's

also a musician, so that's how I got those two.

I had Matt Bancroft, who is Johnny Moore at the

Smiths. Matt is Johnny's design, does all his

design and branding and covers for the albums

and everything. Malcolm Barrett, MBE. He is very

famous in British design. He did the cover for

the first Buzzcocks single. He did the Rio album

cover for Duran Duran. He was absolutely fantastic.

And I also had a guy called Jeff Smith, who is

a member of parliament and is still a member

of parliament in the new Labour government. So

they were all great, although I'll tell a quick

story about Matt Fancroft, and then I'll tell

you my favorite episode. You know, well two stories

about Matt Fancroft. I looked at Matt's website

and thought, wow, you know, there's this guy

in his late 30s, early 40s, he's doing all of

this stuff with Johnny Marl, but he's doing loads

of other stuff. Looks really cool. And I didn't

get nervous on that many episodes, but I'm thinking,

oh, I'm a bit nervous about this. And we got

on the call and this voice goes, all right, Teddy,

how are you doing that? And he was just fantastic,

but I then had a guy from rock in the suburbs

And he was gonna be one of those of group He

was gonna be on my next guest and he actually

emailed me to say I've just listened to Matt

Bancroft's and he's done so such amazing stuff

and he's you know We're so famous and everything

and I'm just an ordinary guy. I'm not gonna give

him name I'm the fascinating thing was his episode

got twice as many as matt bankroft in terms of

business because everybody has a story everybody

has a story but my favorite episode was a lady

called joe berry and it's a really moving episode

briefly in nineteen eighty four the ira when

all the troubles in on going on bond. the conservative

party conference they bombed the hotel with the

goal of killing Margaret Thatcher and all the

cabinet they weren't successful but one member

of parliament was killed and the person who was

killed was Jo Berry's father and she then dedicated

her life or has dedicated life and continues

around peace and trying to help in war zones

and areas of conflict around the world and the

most amazing thing is that as part of that She

not only met the guy who planted the bomb that

killed her father, but they've actually been

working together for the last 20 years Which

I just think is incredible. And of course, the

other great thing is that our music choices were

brilliant as well So if people ask me what's

your favorite episode then? Whilst there are

so many, you know I genuinely never had an episode

where I thought wish I hadn't done that but Joe's

is my favorite Absolutely. Well, like you said,

episode 42. Like you said, everybody has a story.

And, you know, everybody, you know, needs to

have their story heard. And you did it through

music and through albums and through songs and.

You know, one of the other things, Mike, and

this is this actually only occurred to me recently.

I also because I was. I was so surprised how

much people were willing to open up, and this

again was not something I planned. I think one

of the reasons is I never said to anyone, come

on and tell your life story. Because it was music

and because the format allowed that, that's what

happened. If I'd have launched a podcast called

tell your life story with a bit of music i don't

think it would have worked as well well no that's

not that's a clunky title but the thing of it

is no but you know what i mean yeah yeah no but

absolutely but technically you do you did tell

people that it's in your tagline a song for each

decade of your life yes as long as as long as

go ahead What the tagline says is a song from

every decade of your life, which is not tell

your life story It's just right every decade

and the second thing is and tell me why those

songs are so important There's no mention of

tell your life story. No, the other one I have

to say about that tagline is Malcolm the MB the

guy with the MBE he was brilliant because He

emailed me and he said, I love your format, but

I'm going to do zero to 10, 10 to 20, 20 to 30,

et cetera. And this was like, I was named on

episode 70. And I remember looking at his email

and thinking, shit, that would have been a really

smart way to do it, wouldn't it? But it's too

late to change it now. The point is is that if

you have that that format that like you just

said your entire tagline there That to me is

you asking people for their life story in the

music that they listen to So whilst it isn't

you directly saying come on the podcast. Tell

me your life story. It reads to me as Hey, we're

gonna Have your story be told through the music

you've listened to over your lifetime. And that's

great that you're reading that into it. As the

person who wrote that, I can tell you, you're

completely and utterly wrong. Because it was

choose, just take the decades of your life, choose

a song and tell me why that song is important.

It wasn't the rest. That was the guest taking

over. And that will always be, I'm not complaining.

It was fantastic. And then there's me folks where

I took one band and made it everything. Alright,

was there ever a moment, which we're unfortunately

at that moment, folks, but during the run of

the show, was there ever a moment where you were

just like, I'm done, I'm fine, I'm good. Before

you got to 100 episodes, was there ever a moment

in the last five and a half years before now

where you're like, eh, I'm good. No, but and

I think that well, I don't know the reason for

stopping at five years and a hundred episodes

was I can see that there will be but I can see

that potentially that will happen in the future

and I don't want it to right So it was a case

a definite case of quit while you're ahead What

advice do you have for new as well as veteran

podcasters in the art of podcasting? And I have

thought about this one and I've even written

some stuff down. I just have to find it to remind

myself So again, I'm probably I've touched on

most of this anyway I would reiterate that thing

of make sure you focus on audio quality in your

pilot episodes is You you give that as much focus

as you give content and everything else, you

know, that's something I wish I'd done I do subscribe

to that if you have a format that you would do

if no one was listening, you know, that will

give you the momentum and the fun and all of

that. And then the final bit is just do it. If

you're thinking of doing a show, and I've been

fortunate enough, a number of people have got

in touch to say, you know, how did you start?

What did you do? And not every case, but in a

lot of cases, people will, in my view, and I

give this feedback that says, yeah, you're just

using that as a barrier to not jump off, you

know, just go and do it. So don't worry about

it. You can find your way around the technology.

You can find a way around editing. You know,

you can find, yes, just go and do it because

it's great fun. You know, so that would be it.

Yeah, absolutely. All right, folks, I think that's

gonna do it. We got one last thing and we all

kind of know where this is. The link will be

in the show notes and all that good stuff. But

where can the people find your show? On all the

major apps, as we discussed earlier. There is

now something more than one music talks music

talks will normally find it if it doesn't music

to Terry Smith definitely will or you can just

go to my website which is music talks pod dot

com absolutely absolutely alright folks that's

gonna do it for us in this one hundredth episode

the. Most recent podcast approach episode. We're

going to go to a quick ad break. You're going

to hear some ads and we will come back to close

the show and I will be giving you a preview of

what's coming up here. Inside Studio 2009 right

after this. For over six years, my guests and

I have been discussing the soundtracks to our

lives. I'm Jesse Jackson, and I've had hundreds

of fans from around the world share their stories

about the power and magic of all kinds of music.

If you enjoy stories about joy, redemption, trials,

and ultimately triumph, then please check out

Set Listing Bruce, a Bruce Springsteen fan podcast.

Remember, there is magic in the night. Do you

know John Hyatt's songs? Maybe you know them

from being covered by Roseanne Cash, Three Dog

Night, The Neville Brothers, Emmylou Harris,

Eric Clapton, BB King, Jeff Healy, Bonnie Raitt,

or literally hundreds of others. Maybe you have

some of his albums on your shelf, or in your

cowhorned Cadillac right now. I'm Jesse Jackson.

And I'm Sylvan Graf. And we're going to dive

in from A to Z. Join us on the Perfectly Good

Podcast. We're going to discuss all of your favorites

and uncover some forgotten gems from Aces Up

Your Sleeve to Zero House. Rate and debate every

John Hyatt song on the Perfectly Good Podcast.

Have a little faith. Hi, I'm Terry Smith, the

host of Music Talks, the podcast where I ask

guests a simple but beguiling question. Choose

a song from each decade of your life and tell

me why these songs mean so much to you. Guests

and listeners love this format. If you want to

find out why, then take a listen at www .musictalkspod

.com or use your favourite podcast app. Just

search on Music Talks Terry Smith. If you'd like

to be a guest on the show and talk to me until

it ends over, then send me a tweet at Music Talks

Pod. I look forward to doing some music talking

soon. Alright folks. We are back here inside

studio 2009 only on the geek cast radio network

Terry Thank you so much. Oh, thank you Mike.

Seriously. I'm really You're a massive supporter

of music talks, which I will always be grateful

for and it's always it's always fun to talk to

you So thank you for the invite. Absolutely.

Absolutely folks Terry will be back because I

was trying to find and see I'll have to find

this for him offline, but Again take a drink

Jesse Jackson said listening Bruce I forget when

he started doing this but he did this segment

called springsteen in five lines Where you use

the five lines from spring whatever five lines

you want from any springsteen song that basically

he took your format and put it to song lyrics

essentially kind of sort of and I asked him and

I've gotten permission to do so I said hey Can

I take that and use it for Blackstone cherry?

So that will be coming in 2025 and I might have

to twist Terry's arm, but Hopefully Terry will

be a guest on that one and I think Blackstone

cherry are coming up to their next album cycle

at some point here soon because it's been about

two years since screaming at the sky came out

so Terry's gonna be around folks. He may be retired

from his own show But as long as I can twist

his arm a little bit here and there he'll be

here I have no idea what's good, sorry. I suspect

that's true. Laura did say to me, hold on, so

you're recording with Mike and you're recording

with Jesse and you're doing your albums with

Stephen. I thought you'd stopped podcasting.

We will find a way, folks. It might not be his

own show, but we will find a way. Episode 101

of Studio 2009, I have no idea, but we are doing

just like Jesse did for November. He did 30 days,

30 podcasts, 30 days of 30 and 30 for Springsteen.

I am doing 31 days, 31 podcasts in December of

2024. Most of these are films. Most of them are

good. Actually, the first eight, nine of them

are Star Wars stuff. My buddy Dave and I do Star

Wars discussions over the films. We did the holiday

special from 78 and other stuff. We then are

going to go into the old TV show Colombo. And

then after that it's a bunch of anniversary films

from 25, 30, 40 years ago kind of thing talking

about various movies. So that's what's coming

up here inside Serial 2009. You're also going

to get, hopefully I can get this out by then,

but episode 131 will be the New Year's Eve of

podcasts. And basically that is you can send

any audio clip you would like to feedback at

geecastradio .com. Just put in the subject line

studio 2009, episode 131. Uh, and basically just

what your New Year's Eve traditions are. If you

do resolutions, if you don't do resolutions,

if you ignore the whole thing, but just reflecting

on The year that was going into the year that

whatever may happen and whatever may may become

in in 2025. So that's what that is. And yeah,

that's going to do it for us. Any other final

thoughts, Terry before I run through this closing,

sir? The only thing you mentioned, Colombo, what

was his phrase when memory he go to leave and

then he was it just one other thing or something?

What was it he used to do? Oh yeah, by the way,

just one more thing. He's got variations of that,

but the main phrase was, excuse me, sir, just

one more thing, because he would pop right back.

I think you've got to start your Columbo episodes

with him saying that. Oh, of course. Absolutely.

Other than that, I'm done, my friend, but it

was a delight. We'll figure it out, folks. The

funny thing is, is that in doing my research,

it was almost going to be, it was actually going

to be a separate podcast. It was not going to

be here inside studio 2009 as a part of the 31

days I was going to branch it off and have it

be its own show. Problem is there are three,

uh, established Colombo shows and one of them

has that title for the thing already. So that's

why it's here inside this not getting in all

that, but, uh, it's, it's crazy, but yes, the,

the audio clips definitely. I can, I will definitely

be throwing in various Colombo sayings and things

like that. I actually have a, my wife counter

for every time he mentions his wife. So yeah.

Thank you for joining us here inside Studio 2009.

If you'd like to get in contact with us, leave

feedback for the show. There are several ways

to do so. Visit the website, geocastradio .com

where you can listen to and comment on all of

our content. You can also check out shop .geekcastradio

.com right now for all your holiday podcast shopping

needs. You can get t -shirts up to 4XL with our

logo on them and some other stuff as well as

mugs and, and other things in there. I think

Steve Megatron's adding stuff all the time for

that. So we do have a store finally. Again, we

did have a store years ago and they kind of went

under at the time, but we do have a new store.

You can check us out in any of the podcasting

clients you choose to use Apple and Spotify whether

you're Android or in the rotten fruit camp You

know, you can use that you can leave us reviews

on any of that stuff. We are still on Twitter

We still call it Twitter no matter what that

nasty smelling cologne says At geek cast radio

for the network it at its studio 2009 for the

show. I am at TF2 and Mike You can become a fan

on Facebook. Go to facebook .com slash keycast

radio network. You can check us to a 2009 podcast

over there as well as checking out music talks

podcast on there too. Join us next time when

we will be doing something in episode 101. Uh,

we're cutting a little close to get another music

episode folks, but, uh, I don't think that's

going to happen, but we'll see. We'll see. But,

uh, 31 days, 31 podcasts for December for now.

I am TF2 and Mike with. Terry Smith You'll hear

us back in the studio soon.