Podcast Approach with Ryan Daly on Podcast Production and Cheers

Hi, this is Pat Fraley, purveyor of Doc Doug

and Velen Voices, and you're listening to the

Geekcast Radio Network. There is nothing wrong

with your podcast player. Do not attempt to adjust

the volume. Hello and - Welcome into our studio.

This is Studio 2009. I'm of course TF2 and Mike

and for our latest podcast approach today, we

welcome Ryan aka Norm, Daily Peterson from Cheers

Cast. We're going to take Ryan through how he

listens to and produces his podcast and other

things and how he got all that good stuff started.

Ryan, how the hell have you been? I'm okay. Thank

you for asking. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes,

I was at a Had the chance last year at the end

of 2023 in October to be on Ryan's lovely show

Cheers cast where he is going through every single

episode all 275 of them which includes like two

or three Two hours and then a three hour fun

a three hour finale Or maybe it isn't a three

hour finale. I forget this three triple length

episode for the finale. But anyway Yes, Ryan

is going through all of that. And as of this

time in 2024, in February of 2024, do you know

where you're going to be in the show? Probably

starting season seven and releasing new episodes

of season seven. Very cool. Very cool. All right.

So we have 30 questions, as you find folks would

have heard in the last podcast approach episode

70, because we do these every five episodes.

of this podcast episode 70 was the final episode

of 2023 and we added up to 30 questions now so

it's an even number 30 instead of just 27 questions

like it used to be. Getting started as podcasters,

when did you first discover podcasts and what

was the first one you listened to? I believe

the first podcast that I listened to was the

Word Balloon podcast hosted by John Suntress

and I discovered it because at the time and this

would have been around 2006 or 2007, I was frequently

looking at the comic book website Newsarama just

for information on like upcoming comics and things

like that and John Suntress often did interviews

with some of my favorite comic artists and writers.

At first, I was just reading snippets and bits

that were transcribed from his interviews to

get behind the scenes factoids and then I actually

realized I could click on this thing and play

the whole interview for myself and listen to

it. That I think was the first one that I listened

to and I realized that there's this whole back

catalog of previous episodes that I hadn't listened

to and I would go back. Yeah, those were the

first podcasts that I was listening to or things

like that which were all comic book reviews or

comic book interviews Awesome. Very cool. Very

cool So how long after you started listening?

Did you want to start your own show? It was quite

a while longer. I mean it was 10 years or something

I was I was following along and getting involved

in in some blogging first and I had grown up

as a big fan of Marvel Comics and then I started

kind of venturing away from Marvel into DC in

the late 2000s and but just there was so much

history there and I was looking for shortcuts

to give me like information and background on

characters and things like that and Wikipedia

could give you a lot of that information but

I discovered these very specific blogs dedicated

to characters like Aquaman and Firestorm and

the Martian Manhunter and all these weird characters

and these people who had dedicated years blogging

about like every villain this hero has faced

and seminal issues and all the character chronology

and I started like reading their entries and

responding and giving feedback to these blogs

and And before long, I said, hey, that's something

that I kind of want to do and get interested

in myself. So I became I started my own blog

about the DC superhero Black Canary. And then

just as I was doing that, one of the two of the

blogs that I was really following along with

the Aquaman Shrine and Firestorm fan, they started

their own podcast dedicated to Aquaman and Firestorm,

the Fire and Water podcast. Hosted by Rob Kelly

and the irredeemable shag So that's where the

name comes from that's where it came from And

Yeah, and it was just little like listening to

that stuff and this is all this around 2015 ish

I think it was I Probably should know these dates

better, but I just I don't have a head for that

First of all, those guys had such a great rapport

and instantly they welcomed an audience and they

cultivated this audience by seeking feedback

and just really being engaging with their listeners.

I wrote them a lengthy iTunes review and they

read that and that made me feel like These weren't

just these guys who I was like listening to from

a thousand miles away that I was actually a peer

or a friend of theirs and I was involved in the

conversation themselves and they made it look

very easy, which it's not, but they made it look

really easy and at the same time a lot of my

other friends who had started off doing these

podcasts were now getting into or starting off

doing blogs about comics. were kind of getting

into the area of podcasts and I discovered a

sort of satellite of all of these other friends

or community members that were involved in this

podcasting field of Superman and Daredevil and

the Incredible Hulk and Spider -Man and all these

things that were interested and this just became

an obsession. This was all I did with my free

time was just listening to these episodes and

some of them were just kind of extemporaneous

conversation pieces and some of them were reviews

of specific issues and they would be on topics

but I was just fascinated by what you could do

with this medium and again thinking that this

would be easy, it was probably within a year

that I started thinking that yeah, I can probably

do this myself and then it was just a matter

of finding out which topic would be my first.

We up until my guest spot my first guest spot

on his lovely show Cheers cast which we will

get all the details about that in a little while

Ryan and I this is the second time we've talked

to each other like through podcasting and through

through voice and through whatever but we've

been friends on Facebook for a while whatever

else but like You mentioned Rob Kelly, you mentioned

the Irredeemable Shag. I actually asked Shag

to be on the comic show where I have 30 questions

about comic books. He's like, I'd love to be

on it, but it probably won't be till next year.

I'm like, okay, well, whatever you need. Like,

you just let me know. I'm sure when you told

him it's 30 questions, he was like, no, that's

never gonna happen. If you had told me in advance

that you were gonna ask me 30 questions, I would

have said I don't get that self -reflective about

my life. For anybody who doesn't charge me two

hundred and fifty dollars for Well You know I'll

promote your shows you come on my you know, it's

all it's all Yeah, it's reciprocity. Yeah, there

you go But it's just one of those things where

between him Michael Bailey you mentioned Superman

earlier Tom DJ may the man rest in peace Derek

Ferguson. God there's been gone a long time.

Damn it You know, I'm sure we know a lot of the

same people, like I said, tangentially, but,

uh, but yeah, it was fun being on, on your show

and hopefully you'll have a blast here. So what

was your plan in getting your podcast off the

ground? Oh, if only I had had a plan that would

have made things so much easier. I didn't really,

I studied how to actually, or I looked into just

how to host it and what to actually do. I asked

a few people, and what was the first site that

hosted me? I cannot remember. It's probably Lipson.

You're right. It was Lipson. Thank you. That's

probably the go -to for most starters. Yeah,

I decided I had so many topics running around.

I had like comic book ideas. I had Cheers idea.

I had G .I. Joe ideas, but I decided the first

one I would start with was a Star Wars one because

it was It was going to be 2015 and they had just

announced this new merger with Lucasfilm being

bought out by Disney and they were going to be

new Star Wars movies so I was like okay, I love

Star Wars and there's going to be plenty of content

coming out fresh so I'll always have something

to talk about. So I decided my first show would

be a Star Wars related podcast and then I found

Lipson would be my host. I did not have any technology.

I didn't have a separate microphone. I was recording

my voice into just using the the bare bones like

microphone built into my laptop, which was horrible.

I hated the sound of my voice. I went into different

rooms. I recorded the first episode seven or

eight different times just to try and find out

which room where my voice sounded better because

I wasn't sure if this was going to be a thing,

so I didn't want to spend a lot of money on it.

I tried different things and just tried doing

it on the cheap and part of it was just ignorance.

Other people did it. I never asked them, you

know, what kind of technology do you use? What

kind of mic do you use? Do you have your own

studio? Do you have like a soundproof room or

something like that? None of these thoughts ever

like went like came into my head. I was like,

well, I'll just figure it out. So I did. I produced

the first episode, which was just me talking

to my wife about about like the trailer. It was

like the teaser trailer to The Force Awakens,

the one that came out and like Thanksgiving of

2014. The episodes sounded terrible but I'm talking

quality wise. I didn't know anything. I didn't

know how to balance the volume. I didn't know

how to modulate anything. I was just coming in

this completely fresh. They make it sound so

simple and I can't be this dense. So I experimented

with it and I had a 30 -minute conversation.

somebody might find this interesting. I published

it to Libsyn and I created this podcast called

Dead Buffen Spies, which I thought was a really

clever, really cool name, never realizing that

if you want somebody to find your Star Wars podcast,

probably a good idea to have Star Wars somewhere

close to the title because there are thousands

if not more Star Wars podcasts out there so the

more esoteric your title is not gonna help you

get clicks and downloads and then from there

yeah like like the next episode I was like okay

I'm gonna interview somebody so I got like a

handheld microphone from Radio Shack back when

Radio Shack was a thing and I just sat down like

recorded that and then like tried to like import

the microphone through a USB to to the to the

whatever the garage band program that I was using

to edit and I at least knew at least a little

bit about editing because I had tried making

music with that software so I was kind of I was

okay about like editing some of the uhs and oops

and like sound gaps and things like that and

then like I tried my first one of the first episodes

I tried it was a conversation like this recording

on Skype and I didn't even buy us a recording

software program I was literally had like the

the the sound coming out of the computer and

recording it onto a separate microphone. I played

that back later and I was like, this is horrible.

What am I doing? I finally actually looked into

this and I was like, okay, I got a $25 headset

microphone combo like Logitech from Best Buy

or something like that. bought the same model

several times because I like it for what it is.

I don't have a blue yeti or a snowball or anything

like that. I've never wanted to spend that much

money on this hobby because I hadn't wanted to

be that professional about it. I've kind of kept

it at an arm's length. So I thought as long as

that makes me sound decent enough, I'm okay with

that for a product that I'm not charging anybody

to listen to. Then just investing a little bit

more, actually buying a separate software to

record Skype conversations, learning a bit more

how to level and balance those things to make

it sound a little bit more professional, not

giving a damn about copyright infringement and

using licensed material like audio and songs

and then putting that on Spotify and Spotify

saying, ìYou canít do this, weíre going to take

your show down .î That happened many years later.

Yeah, yeah, that's the thing like starting out

in 2008 2009 we were doing all the same things

and There are several shows on the Geocaster

Network that aren't around anymore not because

they closed well number one because they ended

at number two because We were I was that cavalier

about it half the time with the with with the

audio and that wasn't even songs It was just

audio clips. It was just sound bites from you

know Open Door Creek Hi, everybody. No, you know,

just you know, whatever but like, yeah, yeah

those are the old days and Oh boy, which is one

of the reasons why I'm kind of like I still do

review shows. We still do review shows. We still

do discussion things but Ever since, like I said,

the end of 2019, beginning of 2020, I just started

aiming more towards this question and answer

format because it's the easiest thing for me

to do to have a fun conversation with anybody.

I don't care who it is. As long as they have

a good microphone and have at least one year

of podcast experience, come on the show and answer

the questions or whatever kind of thing. And

that way I don't have to worry about not putting

in clips that aren't supposed to be there and

this, that, the other thing, the editing is so

much easier. because it's just Bing Bam Boom

and everything else. You've essentially answered

questions five and six, but back to question

four, which do you prefer audio or video podcasting

as a fan and a producer? Five and six, I thought

we were up to question 20 at least. Oh. Do I

prefer audio or video? That. for the longest

time I I wasn't watching like original content

on YouTube other than like videos of puppies

and things like that like I was only listening

to audio podcasts because again This was this

had become very quickly like my community I felt

like I was a part of this group of people in

like specifically in like this pop culture comic

book sci -fi podcasting world and and I was kind

of immersing myself in that listening to their

shows inviting them on my shows again that reciprocity

thing that we talked about and so I I didn't

like it just seemed kind of innately like podcasting

was a a audio thing and the YouTube content creators

I kind of I just held almost a separate category

that I don't know if it really exists anymore

I do watch a lot more YouTube videos now for

things like action figure reviews and and well

reaction videos actually I like I do what I do

kind of get sucked into like people like who

do like reaction videos for like shows like the

office or the haunting of Hill House or things

like that and we did just a weird little things

where I'll find like this group where You know,

I kind of like their chemistry and I can watch

them for a little bit. And some of those I do

find the engagement of the people visually like

better than listening to an audio version. So

I don't I can't say that I prefer one over the

other without saying it might depend on the hosts,

the quality, the engagement, the content of what

they're actually talking about. Yeah, I certainly

I listen to a lot fewer podcasts now. uh regular

audio ones um i'm listening to more music and

audio books than audio podcasts so yeah that's

that has changed a bit yeah it's uh it's strange

uh and just so i go through the motions five

and six question five what kind of setup did

you have when you started podcasting what you've

already answered and what do you have currently

i guess you could tell us what you use currently

um i again it's a logitech headset with a microphone

that is just plugged in with your USB into the

computer. I bought a separate Skype recording

software to do most of my conversations unless

I'm recording on Zoom with some guests depending

on their preference. And I added either in Logic

Pro or GarageBand, both programs for Apple. Yeah,

it's funny because then I don't know if Skype

for Mac or Apple or whatever things are falling

off that tree. I don't know. I know Skype for

Windows has a built -in recorder now. It didn't

used to, like you said. I remember back in the

day, we had to purchase Pamela Call recorder

because Skype didn't have a built -in recorder.

Then once Bill Gates and his infinite wisdom

and everybody else over there at Microsoft, Decided

to buy Skype. They eventually put in a built.

That's how I'm recording it now is it's built

in through Skype now Yeah, yeah when I when I

was starting out I That wasn't a thing so I bought

it It's called recorder for Skype and I like

it because it actually gives me options of exporting

the recording either both both me and the guest,

whoever I'm talking to, on one channel or separate

channels. I can change it depending on how I

want to edit it. It gives me a lot of options

that way and I like that. Yeah, absolutely. And

question six, if your headphones or mic break

down, do you buy this exact same setup or do

you choose to upgrade? Obviously, you said that

you'd choose to get the same stuff. Which is

kind of the same way I've been. I've never really...

When I started out it was a Wasn't even logitech.

It was like a $5 $10 Walmart version I have the

pic the picture is on Facebook somewhere of me

just kind of like looking off to the side So

the in the frame is the the earpiece with the

microphone coming out It was it was it was under

20 bucks at Walmart back in 2008 But since then,

ever since I think it was 2010, I found the CAD

U37 condenser mic, which is the mic I'm using

now. I've had to replace it. A friend of mine

got me one, and then I had to replace it once,

and it was fine. I had to replace it twice, the

second one, because that was a couple years ago

now. 12 years, however, the hell long 2010 was

ago. The CAD U37 isn't exactly, it's not around

much anymore, but apparently they put out a newer,

same version as far as I could tell, except it

was black instead of silver or gray. And I plugged

it in and my buddy Steve, who created the GCRN

with me, he's like, yeah, no, that sounds like

crap. I'm like, really? It's brand new. He's

like, yeah, no, okay, fine. And really, the stupidest

thing was, And I know USB cords can be interchangeable,

but for some other reason, the crappy USB cord,

I lost the USB cord to the original mic. So the

crappy replacement one I was using wasn't working

well. So I'm like, okay, fine. That was the main

reason why I wanted to buy another one of these

damn things. And I just basically have the other

microphone somewhere and I'm still using the

same one I had in 2010 when I replaced it the

first time. Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix

it, folks. Did you think you'd be podcasting

for as long as you have? No. I still don't understand

why I still do it. I enjoy it. That's a loaded

term. I know when I started, I could not foresee

this far into my own future to expect that I

would be doing this. I know. All right, so how

have your goals in podcasting changed since you

started compared to now? Interesting question

my you know, like again my goals when I started

were to to create a product that's that other

people would find interesting and engaging and

want to come back and listen to the same way

that I was doing when I was listening to and

finding these other people and it was all about

– I've never been so concerned about just brand

growth and trying to get fat man on Batman numbers

or Joe Rogan numbers. I've never even considered

doing that. I would have to turn this into a

career and I don't want to do that. Can I get

a dedicated audience of however many people who

just enjoy this, who think that I am interesting

enough or that I'm creating a product that is

enjoyable enough to come back to every week or

every month or every couple of days, however

long it is between shows. That was my main goal.

It was all about servicing the audience. And

to that end, I was doing shows That I thought

other people would find interesting but didn't

necessarily fulfill me in the same way and and

After I started my I started with the Star Wars

podcast and that was sort of my my beta test

to see if I could actually do that Then I took

aspects of my black canary blog to see okay Can

I do a comic book podcast where I'm actually

like reading a comic reviewing it? going through

these aspects and like getting my thoughts on

this podcast the way these other shows like Michael

Bailey does or Tom Panerese or J. David Weider

or Rob Kelly and check and they are a little

shag like these guys. And I tried doing that

with a Black Canary podcast. And after I felt

like, OK, I kind of I have this system. I think

I know what I'm doing here. I felt confident

enough. I had an idea for a project because,

again, thinking that. Rob and Shag, they had

brought these other people into their community

of podcasters by having certain guests from the

blogosphere that they created of DC superhero

blogs, bringing them into their podcast as guests

discuss team ups or certain issues or things

like that. I really liked that idea and I was

like, can I do a podcast that has the same centrality

of covering a DC comic? but would have a rotating

cast of guests to build the sense of community

and camaraderie amongst myself as the host and

the guests, but also to grow an audience that

would feel like they were part of that too. So

I tapped into the. 1980s DC comic book mini -series

Secret Origins. It was a 50 -issue series with

three annuals. So I knew from the jump, OK, I'm

only going to do these 50 issues. So I wouldn't

have to worry about burning out. I knew this

wasn't going to be a plan that would take me

years. If I ever cover Cheers, I'm going to have

to do that for 270 episodes. Can you imagine

doing something that long? I could not believe

it. I had no... sense of foresight that but I

was like 50 episodes I can do a show for 50 episodes

if it's weekly that's one year out of my life

so I broke it down and there was secret origins

and I said okay every story is gonna have a different

guest and I'm gonna go to the blogosphere okay

there's a Martian Manhunter story origin in this

issue I'm gonna talk to Frank who runs a Martian

Manhunter blog there's a plastic man story in

this issue I'm gonna reach out to this guy Max

who runs a plastic man blog I didn't know if

these guys had ever done podcasts before, if

they cared about anything like that, but I asked

them and they reciprocated and I was like, OK,

this is going to be like months down the road.

Hope we're we're still talking and we're so friendly

when this comes. And then luckily, like when

I when I talked to Rob and Shag about it, they

were very interested and they helped me network

with their audience and find this. a French -Canadian

guy named Siskoid who was like, ìIíll be your

guest on every one of these Golden Age stories

if you need me ,î and Chris Franklin and his

wife Cindy who had helped me out and Chris became

my first guest on the show actually. So we did

this Secret Origins show which was for me a huge

unparalleled success. I built an audience that

was more loyal and larger and faster than I could

have possibly foreseen. I had so much fun doing

that show and there was such a high after that,

that I won that show was over and I had successfully

completed the mission and it only took me about

a year and a half. I had all of these ideas that

I thought the audience would like and I spread

myself way too thin in the aftermath trying to

do too many projects that I thought would appeal

to too many different fans of the show that I

had done while at the same time in my personal

life getting pregnant and having a baby coming

into the world. Within a few months, I smashed

into not being able to manage my real life of

becoming a new father and having five new podcasts

that I was trying to get done every two weeks.

with multiple guests and the kind of production

value that I was used to putting into them and

it sort of exploded and it became unmanageable

for me and it turned into this issue and I think

I'm circling back to the question of how my goals

have changed. I had to talk to my co -hosts and

these guys who would really Halfway through Secret

Origins podcast, Rob and Shag expanded their

show into a fire and water network and they graciously

invited me to be one of the founding members

with them, in part because we had the exact same

audience and they wanted me to be in their umbrella

and kind of keep the same friends. just because

of my own social life and things at home like

these guys who I had never met at the time became

very quickly my best friends and like family

members to me because I was talking to them more

frequently than anybody else in my life and about

stuff that at the time was more important and

more relevant than anything else in my life.

point where it became all consuming and like

a flame just burned out and I had to talk to

these guys. I was like I can't keep doing the

show right now where I'm at because I know the

audience really really enjoys this and the audience

wants us to keep doing the show but it's not

fun for me. It's turning into a job and I never

wanted podcast to be a job. to be a hobby or

a creative outlet or some kind of release, an

escape, and it just wasn't fun anymore. And I

was like, if I'm not having fun, I'm not going

to do good work. And it's going to reflect on

that. So when that happened, that's when my goal

shifted. And I said, I don't care if I stop podcasting

altogether. I'll quit this tomorrow. It has to

be fun every episode I do. It has to be something

that engages me. So what are the things I stopped

caring about? This sounds harsh, but I stopped

caring about growing a large dedicated audience.

I was like, I just need to have a show that makes

me have fun. And when I thought of doing Cheers,

I was like, Cheers could be a big project. I

could take 10 years out of my life. But if I

never finish it, I don't really care because

I'm not doing it for anybody else. I'm not doing

it for the listeners. I'm doing it for myself.

And I'm doing a music show that most of the episodes

I collaborate with my brother and that's just

a fun way for us to get together and talk about

the music that we grew up with and shaped our

lives and that's a fun thing and that Doesn't

get the same kind of response and the same kind

of engagement and every once in a while I still

go back and I'll do a Star Wars podcast I'll

pick some random topic and that again, there's

thousands of Star Wars podcasts and At least

900 of them are better than mine and I'm fine

with that because I don't need thousands and

thousands of downloads and clicks. If I just

get two people to come and say that was worth

my hour listening to that episode, cool, that's

fine. The way my goals have changed is just I'm

only podcasting just for myself and just for

a feeling of expressing this creative outlet

and if that means the audience doesn't come with

me, I accept that. So it's funny that you say

that's your story. My story is the exact flip

of that coin. I started this doing just basically

like, okay, I'm going to sit down, have fun,

whatever. At the time when Steve and I first

started, I'm like, look, I just want to record

this stuff. I just want to show up and talk.

you can do the editing blah blah blah blah blah

sometime in 2010 Steve I've always said this

I've said this for 15 years life comes before

podcasting if any of the hosts co -hosts whatever

have something going on in their life as long

as they tell the audience before the show disappears

for whatever amount of time as long as you inform

the audience the audience will be there when

you come back because if they were there the

whole time beforehand and they liked what you

did Once you come, you know, it's kind of like

How can Star Wars go? How can I miss Star Wars

if it never goes away? Any or anything not not

just Star Wars, but like any any anything like

TV show movie, whatever So how I approached it

was I'm doing this with I'm having conversations

with my friends. I'm having a fun time. I'll

at the back then I liked the editing now. That's

a whole other we'll get that in a while, but

it was never about the downloads. It was never

about it was about the audience, but the audience

wasn't the biggest Take away for me at the time

and it still kind of isn't I mean I have a lot

of dedicated fans that listen to the stuff that

we do and I love all of them and everything else

I love that they've been supporting us over the

years, but like we don't have a large audience.

We aren't You know, like you said big number

Celebrity podcasters, but you know it is what

it is and that's just like I said this the way

podcasting is it's it's meant to bring people

the like -minded people together who want to

have a conversation about whatever cool topic

it is they want to talk about I I didn't realize

it at the time it took me a couple of years,

but I I started to make friends I did that and

now that I've got those friends. I kind of feel

like I don't I think I need the podcasting to

stay friendly with them. I think there's enough

of a relationship there that if I quit this endeavor,

I could still hang out. I could still talk to

those guys. I've met almost all of them face

-to -face now and we've had good experiences.

In the group you were just talking about, I'm

not putting myself into that group. But the point

for me with podcasting is, we don't always get

together, we don't always whatever. We're not

recording a weekly show, we're not recording

a monthly show, whatever it is. That's why I

love doing the co -host thing where I'm the host

and somebody else, like, oh hey, how have you

been? We haven't talked to you in a while. It's

kind of a catch up thing. Or if you end up doing

a weekly show. You get to sit down with your

friends once a week if if that's all the time

you get that's all the time you get and of course

there are Facebook messages or Whatever they're

calling DMS over on that other server. I don't

even know what they're calling stuff over there

more but like you know what I mean, like there's

There's the instant message of text messaging

or instant messenger or whatever and then there's

being able to sit down for half hour 45 minutes

hour and a half whatever it is to talk about

Whatever you want to talk about. Yeah, I mean

there are people who Yeah, there are people who

I podcast with who every time like I'll talk

to them once a year twice a year Maybe but before

we get down to the recording like the first question

last is how's your family? How's your son doing?

Is he in kindergarten yet? Or he's like talks

things like that. I was like, oh, yeah Like he

actually cares and he remembers things about

my personal life and like we engage this way

and it's that's yeah It's it's kind of yeah,

that's fun. It's fulfilling Absolutely. All right,

let's get into your podcast listenership. As

a listener, what defines a good podcast to you?

This is a really tough question because it is

so subjective, but I guess that's why you ask

many people this question. What defines a good

podcast? Somewhere, a happy medium, and it depends

on what you're looking for, but somewhere between

informative and entertaining or a little bit

of both. It should tell you something new now

that what that new aspect is or what the informative

part could be in the content, whatever it is,

if it's a review show, if it's reviewing a TV

show or a movie or a book or a piece of art or

literature, anything like that, or if it's an

interview or some other kind of like Ted Talk

or something like that. It should give you something

new, whether that newness is in the content.

or just the author or the guest or the host's

opinion about that should be something that I

don't already know, hopefully. And then entertaining

and that, you know, your mileage may vary. Well,

again, the content itself could be very entertaining

or the host could just be naturally funny or

clever or whimsical. Or if it's if it's a partnership

or a group, their repartee, how like fun they

are to listen to as a group. Uh, that's all of

those things, you know, it's, but yeah, if it's

a good show, it's entertaining and informative

to some degree. Yeah, absolutely. As a listener,

what does a podcast have to have to draw you

in? So you find a show that you think you're

going to like, you hit play on the very first

episode, not the current one, but you go back

to when the show began. So what does that first

episode have to have to make you keep coming

back for more? Orson Welles sounding like a radio

announcer in the 1940s or 50s or something like

that. What does the show have to have to keep

me coming back? So much of this just comes down

to the hosts, honestly. This was something else

that changed for me over time. first getting

into podcasts and discovered this group, I was

listening to 30 shows a week, just devouring

content about reviewing Incredible Hulk stories

or Fantastic Four stories or Justice League of

America stories, all these things. But I started

to whittle them down based on who the host was

and a lot of times I found The better shows I

liked had a dedicated host and partner or co

-hosts or something like that because I liked

the rhythm, the dialogue that go between. There

were a few handful of podcasters who could do

one show who could talk to me for 45 minutes

straight just explaining what happened in this

issue of Daredevil. and something about the tone

or the timbre of their voice or their particular

cadence. It just it was soothing. It was fun.

And it was listening. And I could listen to that

particular show whenever if it was just that

one person. But a lot of times I liked the rhythm.

I liked the back and forth. I like feeling like

I was eavesdropping on a conversation between

friends. So that always helped. And to answer

the question like more. What it became this extension

of was I stopped caring about the subject of

the podcasts. Once I really became enmeshed in

this community, in this group and doing this

myself, I stopped. I don't want to say I stopped

caring about what they were talking about, but

if it was like a show, I'll name drop these guys,

The Waiting for Doom podcast, where these guys,

Paul and Mike from Australia review do the comic

book Doom Patrol and issues of that. I don't

really care about the comics, but I'll listen

to their show because these guys crack me up

and they're they're hilarious. The way they banter

with each other and like the first 20 minutes

of their show might have nothing to do with Doom

Patrol. It's just them talking about their personal

life or or play gags on each other and stuff

like that. I'm like, this is all I need. I'll

listen to the first 20 minutes and then once.

OK, we're going to review this comic. All right.

I'll switch to something else. But that first

20 minutes, I was like, that's fun. That's all

I need from that show. So now it's so different

because I don't discover a whole lot of new podcasts.

But I think if there's something that is going

to grab me, it really comes down to the host.

Do I like them? Do I like their energy? If it's

a more informative or news or sports subject.

Do I trust them? Do I like their particular worldview

or their perspective? If it's an entertainment

podcast, do I feel like they have something worthwhile

to say about this movie that I've already seen

and I already have my own opinion, so what do

I care what they think about this movie? Well,

there must be something about their level of

engagement, their energy, their wit, something

about it. cliffhanger ending, if you want me

to listen to episode two, you gotta be funny,

you gotta be interesting, and you gotta care

about what you're talking about, even if I don't

care about what you're talking about. Absolutely,

yeah, most definitely. Yeah, that's the thing,

like half the time, like you've been saying,

there are a million Star Wars podcasts out there,

but if you find the right one with the right

set of hosts, then that's the one you're gonna

listen to, regardless, and you end up... Following

like, you know, you said you start you started

on one podcast you went to another you started

on this you went to another as a Host which we

will get to later But as a host you started on

one podcast you went to a different one you then

you're on your your third podcast now and Cheers

cast It's like thing of it is is For me, I will

follow hosts like if they decide that their one

show is now ending and they go on to so Okay,

what are you doing next? You know Yeah, same

way. I will do that too. I mean, that's part

of like the fire and water network in this community

that we've sort of built. We've all changed like

over the course of like nearly a decade now of

producing these shows together and interact with

each other. We've all come up with numerous new

show ideas and some we bounce off each other

and we're like, is this going to work? If it's

something you really want to do and then some

of them might fall by the wayside. It's like,

hey, I'm going to launch this new show. I was

like, hey, I would love to be a guest on that

whenever you need me or something like that and

we'll follow along and we help each other out.

Getting back to the thing that you were saying

beforehand, a specific idea where I was following

a show for these hosts but I decided to drop

the show was the Star Wars Minute podcast which

has now become like this cottage industry of

podcast where people watch a movie and review

it one minute at a time. This actually started

with these two guys who were reviewing the first

Star Wars movie and it was such this clever take

on it because again what could you do with Star

Wars that hasn't been done a million times well

to actually do to talk for 20 minutes about the

first minute of Star Wars where you're only in

the middle of the crawl. and like what is going

like and all of these things and these guys they

they were funny they were informative like they

researched the heck out of this so every character

who was in the background they knew that actor's

full imdb profile and everything like that and

i was really digging that show except it became

clear and one of the guys was very upfront like

he liked star wars and he liked empire strikes

back he didn't like return of the jedi and they

went through the Star Wars minute and then Empire

Strikes Back minute and then when they got to

Return of the Jedi I could tell just as a listener

I was like he's not he's not having fun listening

that he's not having fun making the show this

is a slog for him they had they had brought on

new guests every week and it was clear that he

wasn't talking as much and then but the show

had gotten so powered and these guys were like

we don't really like the prequels we don't like

the Phantom Menace but the audience is demanding

we keep doing the show Yeah, and I was like guys

don't don't listen to the audience. That's the

wrong and of course at this point I'm Like this

is my wavelength. I'm like do what brings you

joy This is the mantra of the fire and water

networks and apart find your joy I was like if

you don't like these movies do not spend the

next year of your life Hyper scrutinizing this

movie one minute at a time. You're gonna go crazy

So I abandoned the pockets as much fun as I was

having I was like I think this is going to be

a miserable experience listening to this one

minute at a time for these guys. So I have no

idea. I think they've done every Star Wars movie.

The podcast is a huge success. I'm sure they've

been happy with it. But when I could tell, I

don't think these guys are in this for the right

reason, and that's my judgment. Who am I to say

that? But I was like, I don't want to listen

to the show anymore. So that's when I bailed

on Star Wars Minute. The first two movies of

that one were fantastic. As a listener, do you

prefer short 30 minutes to an hour and 30 minute

shows or do you prefer longer podcast episodes

as in two hours or more? Again, subjective very

much depends on the content and the host. It

depends on what I'm doing that day. If I'm on

a road trip or if I need to go somewhere. For

review type of shows, whether it's reviewing

a TV show or a comic or a book or a movie or

something like that, whether it's a podcast or

a YouTube show or something like that, I prefer

shorter the better. I don't know what it is,

but something about like that. Give me the basic

bare bones summary. Give me your thoughts and

your feelings, your opinions and everything like

that. have some witty banter before and after

that, but if you can keep that 20 to 30 minutes,

I'm good. If it's an interview show, which again,

I don't listen to that many of those, but if

it's something like that is more informative

or we're talking about like interviewing a musician

or a filmmaker or an author and we're getting

into a much more history thing, those Again,

if the questions are good, if the host is engaging,

if the guest has something profound or interesting

to say, those I can listen to for two hours at

a time. If it's a review show, keep it short.

If it's an interview, as long as I'm engaged

in the material, then I'll stick with that for

longer. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely as a listener

Do you start at the beginning of a podcast the

most recent episode or do you jump jump around?

It depends on how I find the show, okay if it's

If it's a show that is sort of like topical if

it's like a You know a news or sports show or

something that feels more contemporaneous Then

I'll just whenever I jump in I'll usually just

stay and I probably won't go back very far unless

you know, there's certain like topics or things

that I know that they covered that might appeal

to me if it is a review show like if I If it's

something that I wanted, you know hear their

whole catalog of like going back then I'll whenever

I just or I'll start at the beginning Yeah, again,

that's going to depend on how and when I discover

the show, how far along they are into it, and

what it's about, if it's something that needs

to be or at least expects to be consumed from

beginning to end. Yeah, absolutely. As a listener,

how many hosts are too many on one episode? Nineteen.

Okay, that's over, Kale. Yeah. How many hosts?

Yeah. Okay. So when I say host, essentially how

many people? Yes, I am the host of this podcast.

You are the guest. You are the co -host. But

technically, we are two people on a podcast.

Someone out there in podcast land may say, oh,

these guys are the hosts. So how many people

on a podcast is too many on one episode? Anything

more than four. or five is generally pushing

it. Again, it depends on who's the ringmaster,

the ringleader in charge of this and how good

they are at herding sheep. I'll shout out another

group of friends, the Long Box Crusade. They've

got four guys in their regular group and they

have just a perfect repertoire for the four of

them like they they have each in an almost like

miraculously short amount of time because it

started off with one guy and then he brought

in his friend and then he brought in his brother

and then they brought in their other other friend

and it became these four guys and they just clicked

right away from the first time it became this

quartet Everyone had a defined personality. It

felt like they all had these inside jokes that

you were a part of, even if you'd never heard

them before. And they just, they sing when it's

the four of them together. And again, that's

one where I don't care what they're talking about.

I listened just for the repertoire of those guys

and whatever they're, you know, going on back

and forth. If it's a review show, and I, because

I just recorded one and I had four guests, so

it was myself and four guests. So you got five

people. It can be tough when you've got that

many managing, okay, what did you think about

this particular scene in Ahsoka and you have

to ask, you have to wait until four people and

make sure that everybody gets a chance to talk

and there isn't a real lull in the conversation

between because if somebody is dominating the

conversation and somebody else doesn't feel like

they're getting enough time or you just kind

of lose energy. But I've also been, I've been

on shows where there were seven of us, I think,

talking about Avengers Infinity War. And it was

a great conversation. I didn't feel like there

were too many people. We all got to say something.

We all felt like we were contributing. So I think

it depends on the particular host and how well

they can manage a large group of guests and a

large field of personalities. If everybody is

saying the same thing or if they have very contrasting

viewpoints and being diplomatic and resolving

any possible tensions, although that's pretty

rare in these types of podcasts that we're talking

about. or three at the most. Sometimes it demands

to have more than that and I've done really good

episodes where I've had four guests and the content

has been wonderful but that's tough. I don't

think I'm necessarily the best suited for that.

I'm much more comfortable when it's a smaller

group but again if a host is very deft and very

capable as many as they can handle yeah absolutely

i've often said that uh two to four is the sweet

spot for just a normal everyday like general

geek show where you're just talking about geek

topics that kind of stuff if it's more specific

to a like when we do our top 100 countdowns there's

usually between four and six of us on there total

but that's because of you know or Five to seven

maybe depending on whatever But you know tiebreakers

and all that but but you have two to four is

usually really good I also think that rule is

somewhat different for audio versus visual Absolutely.

Yeah, like a YouTube show if it's like a review

show and you've got seven people on the couch

Because your mind can just make the adjustment

of who's talking but if it's just pure audio

and you're listening to seven or eight people

and it's like, have I heard this voice before?

Is this the same person? It's sometimes harder

to follow along. Yeah, absolutely. When do you

stop listening to a podcast altogether? I mean,

if they cross some line in my personal values,

whether it's political, ethical, moral or something

like that. If I find out that, hey, this host

believes something that I find morally repugnant

or abhorrent in my personal political views,

it doesn't matter if they're a really good host

of this particular TV show or comic book, I instantly

lose interest in most of their opinions so that

is usually a big turn off. Those are pretty extreme

because I can usually fair those out much earlier

but if I feel like the show has run its course,

if they've gotten to a point, I'll talk about

The West Wing Weekly, a show hosted by I can't,

one of them was the actor in the show, Joshua

Molina, and his co -host were covering the TV

show, The West Wing. And once they got past season

four, which is where Aaron Sorkin and Thomas

Schlomey were the showrunners, once they left,

I didn't really care that much about the last

three seasons of The West Wing. I watched them

at the time, but I just, it didn't have the same

energy, so. I wasn't really interested in what

the podcast had to say about those episodes,

so I quit after they covered the first four seasons.

Same thing going back to Star Wars Minute when

I could see the writing on the wall. I was like,

alright, you're going to cover a movie that you

said you hate. I was like, this isn't going to

be any fun. I don't want to spend this time listening

to you guys take this thing apart. If they get

to a natural break point where I'm no longer

interested in the content or their analysis of

the content, then I'll walk away. Otherwise,

if something happens where I just lose any respect

or sense of value in what this person has to

say, yeah, those are fairly extreme. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, most definitely. Most of the time, if it's

like you said, a specific podcast and it has

a specific end point and as long as you're still

interested, that's usually when you would stop.

But yeah, there are other times when things like

that happen, too. You said you don't listen to

many anymore, but what pod you've mentioned a

few, but what podcasts are you currently listening

to, if any? Every once in a while, I'll listen

to Pod Save America. A few shows on the Fire

and Water Network that our friends do, especially

in September and October, Chris and Cindy Franklin

host the Supermates podcast and they usually

have four or five episodes like seasonal. dedicated

to Halloween and classic horror movies and then

horror comics or horror cartoons or something

that they call The House of Franklin Stein. It's

like this little submini series. Those episodes

are always a joy to behold. I love listening

to them talking about those movies. Gosh, there

really aren't that many like right now in my

podcatcher. Again, like going from I used to

listen to 30 and now it's like maybe once a week.

And I try to keep up and at least be receptive

to what the rest of the network is doing. But

I'm also just trying to expand and keep my mind

about me. So I'm listening to a lot more audiobooks

just because it's harder for me to read. I'm

like 75 % audiobook versus actual reading books

now. Yeah, absolutely. Same here. Alright folks.

Well, that's our halfway point. We're gonna take

a quick break and some other stuff. Oh, please

stop it. Oh my god It's like I've made him drink

575 beers or something folks. It had to be 60

questions at least. No, not even We're gonna

take a quick ad break come back right after this

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Like science fiction? Of course you do or you

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Well, the Markhu42's Universe Podcast is an award

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called the cover song of the week and my favorite

thing in the world this week. If you think this

sounds cool, check it out sometime. I hope you

do. On the Simplistic Reviews podcast, we talk

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the show on iTunes or if simplistic reviews dot

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will cover that. No, they won't. No, they probably

won't Alright folks. We are back and it is now

time to talk all about Ryan's podcast production

As a producer, do you find yourself listening

to podcasts less and less? Yeah, it did happen

almost immediately. I didn't have as much time

between the recording time and maybe this will

answer a future question, but I do spend a lot

of time editing my shows. press record and then

like export something and I'm like yeah nailed

that one and I'm ready to publish that one like

it's gonna I am way too self -conscious about

my voice about any possible technical issues

I have to scrutinize every episode I have to

I have to take a scalpel to it and cut out the

things that I don't think work I used to try

to go every single um and uh and like and stuttering

sometimes but I found it occasionally those work

themselves naturally into the musicality of the

conversation and I can let those go especially

once we're like you know 20 minutes deep into

the conversation the audience just kind of covers

up those those little gaps on their own but yeah

I do I do edit my shows pretty heavily after

I produce them and generally I think and I've

talked to one of the other guys in the network,

Cisco 8, I think we're pretty similar. We have

like a three or four to one ratio where if we

had an hour long recording session, we'll spend

three or four hours editing it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

As a producer, are you a podcast planner or are

you just throwing stuff at the mic to see what

sticks? Please don't throw stuff at me. I might

need you to clarify a little bit about this.

So podcast planning for me is when we started

the network, we had a few shows. We had the couple

of transformer shows and we wanted to do a movie

show. Well, my thing was I had a whole like wall

of DVDs and I planned out over 200 episodes before

we ever launched the show. So, yeah, well, yeah,

I mean, at least because because a lot of my

A lot of my podcasts have been index shows in

some form whether they were reviewing comics

or whether they're reviewing TV shows. As an

index format, you know you're starting at this

point and then you're going chronologically chapter

by chapter so that creates the plan in and of

itself. There have been other exceptions to that

like with the Star Wars podcast that I've done

where they haven't been indexed but I've generally

had Multiple ideas and it's just like okay. I

got a whole little file of these ideas Okay,

what could be this episode? What would be the

next episode after that? Okay, I could flip these

around these don't matter But yeah, I've got

I've got tons of outlines of all of these different

things and tons of plans Podcasts that I've never

done. I've gotten outline for like 12 episodes

in depth like partially scripted Guests that

I would talk about with certain breaks in certain

formats and this is a show that I might never

do but I've got plans for it So yeah, I generally

I generally Plan out my shows pretty pretty well

detailed in advance if it's an index show that

takes care of itself Yeah, but if not Yeah, I

generally have an idea of the topics, like the

music one. I've got a list of bands and artists

and guests and people that I would talk to about

those particular bands or artists or things like

that. Very cool, very cool. As a producer, are

you a one -man show kind of host or do you prefer

working with co -hosts? Oh, again, this is tough.

I am enough of a control freak about my projects

that I mostly like to be the host with guests.

And just because of the nature of the projects

that I've had, whether the Star Wars show or

the music show or Cheers cast or Secret Origins,

I've always had a rotating guest. And I'll bring

some people back, especially if we have a good

rapport and I'm friendly with them. I like having

returned guests every once in a while, but I

also like to expand the field as much as possible

and get new voices. If you have a good rapport

with somebody and you have a good rhythm, like

Chris Franklin and I, we did a Batman show together

for a couple of years. We tried to make a work

called Batman Night Cast. I was doing the production

and the editing in terms of I was recording it

and I was editing every episode, but I considered

myself a cohost with him even though I was doing

the behind the scenes thing. We alternated who

would be the lead on every who would do the intros

and the outros and things like that who would

kind of like take the springboard we rotated

on off like even on episodes and things like

that. And that was so much fun. I love talking

to Chris about that because we have very different

experiences, but a lot of the same ideas and

opinions and I miss his laughter because I never

get to record with him anymore. And that was

a show. that went through many permutations and

we kept changing because we would like we would

That that was the show that that was the one

of them after secret origins that I thought this

this is what the audience Wants us to follow

up to it, but my heart wasn't in it the same

way and the timing was wrong because like having

a family and and things just kept and then just

things like the just the larger fandom of like

Batman and his appearances in movies and comics

and stuff like that just got to my head in ways

that I think are kind of dumb now like why do

I care like what these other things but anyway

it just became untenable and I grew to actually

hate Batman and everything about him so I was

like I can't do a podcast about it this week

Chris I'm really sorry. So that like yeah after

after many many tries in different formats like

that that that show kind of kind of bottomed

out This is Kevin Conway, and I am the goddamn

Batman I I have a lot of regret about that because

Chris and I we both put as much of our heart

and soul and effort into that show to make it

work and people we we did have a good strong

audience for that and people loved it and begged

us to come back and talk about more and I wish

we could and again, I just I I That's a show

that having that one guest that you can talk

to every two weeks. Chris, we had so much fun

and I missed that experience. I would like to

replicate that again sometime but I don't know

when. It depends on the material. You have to

have the right show where you know you're in

sync and you trust this person that you can have

these conversations the same thing every week

and you're not going to get sick of each other.

You're not going to repeat the same thing all

the time. It has to be new. It can be tough to

find. It can be tough to find a guest like that.

But yeah, I am fascinated and envious. of the

people who do find those? Yeah, it's funny because

I've always, well not always, but now, 15 years

later, I don't assume because if I start assuming

it's making an ass out of myself and myself,

because that's just the way assuming is, but

it's one of those things where I usually, as

the host, as the person that intros and outros

shows, I am... thinking that people like I'm

not playing up to that and like I'm more of oh

you've been a insert cable provider name here

customer for 15 and a half years we're gonna

give you all the perks and screw the new people

whereas normally cable companies are like no

if you're brand new to us we'll give you this

best price for this many years and then after

that many years we're gonna hike the price up

on you and not give you a deal anymore because

now we've got you hooked. I don't like that.

I don't like the whole new customer model thing.

I prefer the loyalty, the people that keep coming

back. So that's really how I usually approach

when I'm talking on my shows. It's like, if you've

heard this before, skip five minutes. I've said

that a lot on shows lately. because I'm playing

up to those that I know that have already listened

for the last 15 years, but I guess I gotta mix

it up a bit here in a little while. Who knows?

As a producer, do you feel you need a mixing

board and all the fancy stuff that would essentially

be found at a radio station, or are you good

with a great microphone and headphone setup?

I don't know if I'm great with it, but this is

what I've settled for. Again, a simple $20 or

$25 headset mic and just the software program

that came with the computer. Yep. Well, question

20 is something you've already talked about.

I don't know how much more we can talk about

it, but as a producer, how much time do you put

into the editing of the show? Well, we've already

said this, so... Generally, yeah, like usually

about three times the amount of the recording

time to edit it. Yeah, pretty much. As a producer,

do you prefer in -person recordings like... you

in the same room with your wife or with your

friends or whatever, or do you prefer stuff like

this over the internet via Skype, et cetera,

et cetera? Just for the sake of editing and easier

to control and things like that, I prefer recording

over distances like this, like over Skype and

Zoom. Even when I have recorded podcasts with

my wife, more recently, we've been in separate

rooms on separate computers and done that. If

I had a different setup, like where we could

be at a table with a shared microphone, like

a Snowball or Yeti or something like that, that

would be different. Or if I had a studio, like

some of my friend podcasters do, where we had

an actual room with soundproof walls and a table

set up with different microphones. If I was in

a different situation, you know, like my friends

like it radio versus the Martians they have that

because they live close to each other they they

have an actual office space where they can record

together all the time because they You know that

that's how they became friends and that's that

is their setup But I'm frequently recording with

people who are on different in different time

zones Let alone, you know honor like not in the

same town I live in so yeah, this is just for

editing purposes and just natural. Over the internet

is the easiest, yeah. Right, over the internet

is the easiest. It's just, that's the only thing

I can for now. Well yeah, I mean, I don't know,

I've been doing over the internet for years and

I've only done two or three in -person recordings

and it just, because I've been doing it this

way for so long, doing it that way for the one

or two times I did it, it was like, this is weird.

Yeah, it's kind of awkward. Rob Kelly and I,

we were at HeroesCon in Charlotte one time maybe

like five or six years ago and we were reviewing

an issue of Avengers for one of his podcasts

and we did it in the hotel room between breaks

or something. We just had this recorder out and

the computer opened and we just sat across from

each other on the table. Why is this awkward?

It's never been awkward before I've never seen

your face while we were talking but yeah As both

a listener and a producer Do you prefer one feed

have everything or should each type of show have

its own feeds? So basically Let's say you have

a DC Universe podcast, but you that covers the

comics for DC but you also want to include BTAS,

STAS, the rest of the DCAU. Do you want that

all -in -one or do you want them all separate?

So we've had the Firewater know we've kind of

cheated by having both. We do have an all -in

-one feed. where despite the fact that we've

got 40 different shows, you can subscribe to

the Fire and Water Podcast Network feed and get

all of the shows. But yeah, each one of our shows

has its own separate feed. Cheers cast, if I

was going to spin that off into a Frasier show,

which I'm not. And I'll tell anybody listening

and anybody who's going to ask, I'm not going

to review Frasier after Cheers. This is Dr. Frasier

Crane. I'm listening. But if that was the plan,

I would start a new show called Frasier Cast

or something else like that. I wouldn't have

that on the same feed as Cheers. You know, when

we were doing... If Chris and I were still doing

a Batman comic podcast, if we wanted to do an

episode dedicated to one of the Batman movies,

we would have that on the same feed as the Batman

show. We wouldn't need to do something different

like that. Yeah, no, yeah, absolutely. Like again,

if you create each show has its own, some people

who listen to Cheers cast may not listen to the

Batman show or may not listen to the Star Wars

show or the same thing with the Star Wars. You

have to have that separation at the same time.

You can have a centralized Blake. Would you like

everything? Do you want everything on your plate

all at once? Here you go. Here's your option.

It's your choice, but we're not going to make

you have everything on one plate kind of thing.

Oh, and by the way, folks, 2025, I'm starting

a Frasier podcast. Was there ever a moment when

you were done with podcasting altogether? Like

you just wanted to never do it again? There was

not one moment. There may have been several.

Okay. Yeah, I got especially burned out and I

can't go and I won't go into the specifics of

it. But I was just I was in a I was in a bad

headspace and I was just like I felt like podcasting

was actually being more of a detriment to my

mental health and my Social engagement and other

things like it was it was demanding too much

of it me which is stupid because it was I was

the one doing the demands because it's my hobby

But it felt like it was too much of a demand

without any reward and I was just I was getting

just really unhappy and I was acting really Center

myself, but I was not being a good person in

my chats with the other fire and water members

But so but yeah, I just needed time I just needed

like some mental health break from that And I

came out of that and I just kind of re centered

that okay. I'm just focusing on the stuff that

makes me happy I'm just finding my joy. That's

the only thing that I can control and I'm gonna

do that Earlier this year for not mental but

physical health reasons I had to take a break

Just because I got really sick But It feels weird

saying this on a podcast and hearing what a part

of your life this has been but I don't like thinking

about taking podcasts that seriously anymore.

It certainly was for a period of my life but

I am more comfortable in a space right now where

if I never did another podcast like okay I'll

find another creative outlet I'm sure I'll always

look back and say oh what if I did an episode

like that or damn I wish I could have finished

Cheers or something like that but it's not gonna

break my heart I've got other hobbies. I've got

other things. I can see when I finish cheer.

I mean, that's still five years away. But when

I do that, maybe that's it. Maybe that will be

the end. And I'll be all out of things to say.

And I'll have found other other things to occupy

my time. I don't see this being a lifelong thing

in as much as however much time I have left.

So. As long as it brings me joy, as long as I

continue to have fun with it, as long as I feel

like I have something to say for myself, then

I'll keep doing it. But if at any point that

stops being the case, I'm not going to force

it. Yeah, absolutely. It should never be about

forcing it, whether it's for yourself or for

anyone else. That shouldn't even ever. Just because

I'm a machine, and I've been, you know, I've

got over 3 ,000 episodes. There's almost 4 ,000

probably in 15 years. Doesn't mean that everyone

else should feel the way. I mean, for me, I will

die. This CAD U37 is probably going to be hanging

out of my mouth when I die. Most definitely.

But that's just me. And that's fine. You know,

some people approach it as a hobby. Some people

approach it as I approach it. And that's great

because everyone has a different approach. That's

the Again, the whole point in why the sub -series

in this podcast of Studio 2009 is called Podcast

Approach. Everybody's got their own way of approaching

it. As long as you're enjoying it, that's all

that matters. At the end of the day, as long

as you're enjoying it, as long as your guests

have fun with you, that's really all that matters.

Have you ever been on the radio before besides

calling in and stuff? Yes, technically. Okay,

good. Then this question will actually make sense

for you. What do you see as the differences in

podcasting versus being on the radio? Well, control

of scheduling, for one thing. Not being live

is an entirely different beast. So that just

naturally gives you a sense of control and yeah,

that's the first thing that comes to my mind.

The difference between whether it's a live show

and just feeling like the commitment of having

to fill air, the tension, the pressure of needing

just to be to be able to perform at a moment's

notice, to have everything prepared, that can

be scary as hell and certainly just having a

podcast where everything is prearranged, pre

-produced in advance and then published out to

the world. In radio, there's this sense of immediacy

and then it's gone unless somebody happens to

be recording it. on my second or third Star Wars

episode of dead bottom spies in 2015 or 16 and

Somebody comes back and says well, you know in

the context of you know, 2023 that comment could

be seen as racist and now I'm like facing like

a whole new set of standards and scrutiny and

said wait wait wait wait wait the world has changed

and and now I'm being judged for something that

I said out of context that and that's just like

one weird example, but yeah, certainly The the

idea that what I'm what I'm doing in podcasting

could be discovered, you know ten years later

More who knows one and still feel as immediate

to somebody listening to it then It's a weird

sensation. It's a weird idea. Yeah, absolutely

If you've done any interviews with famous people,

which one was your favorite? I haven't I don't

think Oh, I mean, I've interviewed a few comic

book creators, but they weren't, if any of them

happen to listen to this, forgive me, but they

weren't big name celebrities. I have thought

about reaching out to some of the still living

members of Cheers, but I don't know, again, that

feels like... That's a lot of pressure if they

say no That hurts that kind of rejection and

it shouldn't also if it could be worse if they

say yes because then I've really got to work

and and it that also opens like a new floodgate

of audience like members and participation like

then then like am I am I ready for You know if

I got BB new worth to talk about playing Lilith

on my show and all of a sudden, my download numbers

explode. Now I've got to like, how does that

affect me? Do I feel like I have to perform better

on my shows? Do I have to change something about

the way I do the show? Am I then expected to

try and get George Wint or John Ratzenberger?

to try and top that and keep going and then there's

more eyes listening to the show and then before

long, somebody from NBC corporate is like, hey,

you're playing the cheers theme on your podcast,

we're sending you a cease and desist, I don't

need that headache, so I'm just like, nope, I

don't want to even invite that. As someone who

has done many interviews over the years with

Tara Strong, Maurice LaMarche, Rob Paulson, Whoever

here the late great Kevin Conroy the late great

Jason David Frank, etc, etc It never it was always

about them and what they needed for That conversation

like if some people some of their agents would

be like we need to see the questions Okay, sure.

Normally we don't show them. But if that's gonna

make them more comfortable fine We will show

them to you, you know and And I've never looked

at it as, oh, do I have to perform better now

that I've had this perk? Maurice LaMarche is

a perfect example. Love that man to death, but

I thought he was gonna fly from California to

Kentucky to kill me. Yes, folks, I thought the

brain, the voice of the brain, also the voice

of Orson Welles and various things, was going

to kill me in 2011, 2010, 2011, whatever it was.

So on Tooncast for the the the voice actors when

we do voice actor interviews We have a question

of what is your favorite type of voice acting?

You know narration animation video games, etc

It's a general blank every man question. It is

not a specific question to a specific like oh

This is the game you're working on. How did you

like to know it? It's just a general question

Maurice LaMarche comes out and says, well, the

interesting thing about video games is, as everyone

knows, it's just you in a room yelling at yourself

or talking to yourself or whatever. And without

any provocation, he says, I just got out of a

session for Batman Arkham City as Mr. Freeze.

You can hear my heart just like leaping out of

my like literally, you know You talk about those

moments in editing editing where you're like

make it a little bit tighter make it, you know

Whatever. Oh, no, you can hear the dead silence

my next could you give us a sample of the voice?

What else was I supposed to ask? How do you drop

a bombshell like that and not ask for a? for

a, you know, uh, just a little bit. He goes,

Oh no, I signed an NDA so I can't do it. And

again, this is where I will say to the audience,

listen to this podcast. If you've listened to

the studio 2009 in the last three years that

it's been online, or if you listen to any other

shows that I've done in the last 15 years, you've

heard this story before fast forward about, I

don't know, 50 seconds or more. Edited that shows

so I asked him at the end if there was anything

and and I do this to all because of him I do

this to every guest Every episode every time

no matter what it is Is there anything you want

me to edit out of the interview or the episode

or whatever? I? Don't think we asked him. I got

this episode. I got this interview online so

fast Then left my apartment my mom and I went

out grocery shopping back then in 2010 I only

had a little Nokia whatever dumb phone whatever

it was All of a sudden because back then you

could have text messages for Twitter Back when

it was still called Twitter and all that and

everything else and you could have the and my

phone started blowing up My buddy Steve Megatron

who started the network with me. He's like, what

did you do? I'm grocery shop. What are you talking

about? What interview did you and Kevin do? I

said we just did the Maurice LaMarche interview.

I edited it and got it up on the on the website.

What? We are being blown up by everybody. So

some little unknown website picked up the the

interview and then IGN picked it up. IGN gets

a hold of a bone. They never let go. It had not

been revealed yet who was voicing Mr. Freeze.

We got the exclusive. And ever since 2011, I've

been trying to live up to that moment, but I

haven't really been living up to that moment.

So as far as the whole, oh, what if I get this

famous person and then I have, there really is

no expectation. Get who you want to get if you

want to try to get them. You know, it's that's

completely up to you. I guess is my whole point

in saying all of that Geez so now here are gonna

be coming some specific questions for Ryan Based

on Cheers cast number 26. What are your personal

all -time top five favorite episodes of Cheers?

I don't want to be withholding and I don't want

to be coy with that but Part of the thing with

Cheers is I do rank the episodes at the end of

each season And at the end of the fifth season,

I ranked all of the the Diane episodes Well,

no, no, I hear I will give you just for the sake

of your audience I will give you where we are

up to this point because I don't want to I don't

want to cast too far into the future. How do

you get through the day? I don't want to answer

this question completely because part of the

the show with Cheers cast is at the end of each

season I rank every episode from that season

in order and I always make it clear this has

nothing to do with the guest who appeared on

that particular episode this is just my ranking

of the actual show that NBC produced because

we might have had a really good conversation

about a really bad episode and I don't want that

to be a reflection of the guest who might have

been on that and at the end of season five I

actually took the time to rank every one of the

Diane episodes for for seasons one through five

and I have continued that trend with season six

and my plan by the end of season 11 is to have

ranked All of the 270 plus episodes in order

and as crazy as that will be because I'm on the

last episode when I do the feedback I am going

to read that list Publish it on the website.

I'll probably publish it on the website and just

read like the top 50 But for the sake of this

question, I can I can at least answer for the

the Diane episodes the first five seasons Okay

my my top five favorite episodes Going down,

number five would be from season two, Battle

of the Exes. That was an episode that featured

Carla's ex -husband, Nick Tortelli. Number four

from season five, Everyone Imitates Art. This

is one where Sam gets a poem published and it

drives Diane crazy that she couldn't get a poem

published beforehand. It turns out that Sam stole

one of Diane's poems and put his name on it.

Number three, Diane's Perfect Date. This is when...

Sam accidentally sets Diane up on a blind date

with a convicted murderer. Season two, Old Flames,

number two, this is one when a friend of Sam's

tries to break them up right after they started

dating. And number one, also from season two,

Fortune and Men's Weight is my number one favorite

episode so far. This is one where they get a...

a scale in the bar that if you weigh yourself

it gives you a fortune and it comes out with

all these cryptic little messages and they begin

kind of taking on this sort of superstitious

life where the fortune become kind of predictive

of of bad things that happen to the members of

the bar and and it's just it it has one of the

all -time funniest exchanges uh including the

cast and the oldest member of the cast is guy

al in the background who just hits this one comedic

beat and he hits it twice. Pitch perfect. If

you know the episode, you know the joke I'm talking

about. If not, I'll just tell you to watch the

episode Fortune and Men's Weight as one of the

all -time greatest gags in the show. And so far,

those are my top five favorite shows from the

first five seasons of Cheers. And I'll leave

it at that for now. Very cool. Very cool. So

folks it's been 41 years since Cheers debuted

and 30 years since it ended technically that

means that things been around 71 years Not really,

but that's math for you. And yes, we are old

we know it but in 10 years from now What do you

think podcast listeners will think about Cheers

cast that they have never heard? If they have

never heard the show before things about Cheers

the Show and one of the reasons that I love it

and the reason I do it is because it is my favorite

TV show of all time and I think one of the reasons

why it is such a strong show is it it has this

weird timelessness where I think a lot of most

of the humor still holds up today these 30 to

41 years later. And I think because Cheers in

its own way avoided a lot of pop culture references

that you don't see with modern TV shows. Modern

shows are, because they are part of, they're

too aware of their own sense of being in pop

culture. They can't help but recycle it and regurgitate

it and it just becomes trendy. So if you watch

shows, like The Office or 30 Rock or Scrubb that

might have been popular 10 years ago, you can

see, oh, this was something that was trendy in

2009. Or, oh, yeah, this is a joke about that

particular president or something like that.

But going back to something that the creators

of Cheers said, I think Cheers was one of the

last TV shows that was written by people who

didn't grow up watching TV. They grew up reading

books, reading plays, doing things like that

and TV was part of their life, but it wasn't

something that like they weren't raised on TV.

So they didn't think about television the same

way. And I think that that informs the writing

of the show and how much each episode feels like

a play you could see on stage. And it has this

timeless nature that I think makes it still hold

up incredibly well all of these decades later.

If I'm just like, you know reaching for the stars

if somebody finds Cheers cast in ten years I

hope they say the same thing. Very cool. Very

cool. Yeah, absolutely Once your current podcast

ends what's next for you in the world of podcasting?

What's the next great Ryan Daly idea? I Don't

I don't know I think I sort of I I sort of said

like when Cheers is over, I might be done. But

there are other shows that I mean, I have an

idea for a limited GI Joe podcast. It wouldn't

be an ongoing thing. It would just be like a

mini series. I have an idea for a Simpsons podcast,

which seems like it would be the opposite of

that. I've got ideas for certain movies that

I would like to cover. If I did something, they

would be smaller self -contained projects. something

that wouldn't occupy as much time, something

that wouldn't have the same kind of deadline.

I can't say because we're still we're talking

about something that's four or five years down

the road and my ability to predict their forecast

that far and advances. I have no track record

for that. OK, what advice do you have for new

and veteran podcasters in the art of podcasting?

I mean, the same thing along with any. any endeavor,

it's kind of the same thing. Anytime you're starting

a new job or a new creative process, whether

you want to write a book, whether you want to

make a movie, whether you want to do anything,

consume a lot of what you like. Just find out

what you like. Think about why it works for you.

What does that host do well? How is that show

produced? Ask a lot of questions about it. Reach

out to them if you can. ask them for advice ask

them technical things but also understand it's

you're not being graded on this and like except

for the fact that you know whether or not somebody

comes back and listens to it um i if you if you

want to be anything like me then just find something

that makes you happy do something that is fun

don't be afraid of failure recognize that your

first episode is probably gonna suck but also

recognize that you can record a first episode

and if it sucks, throw it away and do it again,

redo it. Don't put a product out there that you're

not happy with. I've had to scrap entire episodes

before and re -record them with the same guest

or with a different guest for whatever reasons.

The first episode of Secret Origins that I said,

Chris Franklin was my guest, We recorded that

episode over three different sessions because

there were things where I was like, no, this

is the first episode. I really want to make sure

I come out gangbusters on this one. Everything

has to be perfect. I'm not happy with this thing.

Chris, can I get you on the phone for another

20 minutes so we can just rerecord this part?

And he was gracious and he was like, yeah, absolutely.

So that was kind of the opposite. But that was

after I had been podcasting for a year. So at

that point, I felt like, OK, I'm more comfortable.

having this demand on myself. But, you know,

like when I, the first Star Wars show that I

did, it was crap. And I don't, I would never

go back and even listen to that episode again.

But I've also, I've done episodes, like another

episode of Secret Origins that I recorded with

Siskoid where I listened to the playback and

I was like, was I sleepwalking through this episode?

What the heck is wrong with me? And I called

Siskoid, I was like, hey, I can't even explain

it, but can, like, there was nothing technically

wrong, but. Can we just do this again? I just

I just feel like I need another swing at the

bat. And he was like, absolutely. I don't know.

No problem for me. And the second try was much,

much better. So I like unless you're crunching

some weird deadline that you impose on yourself,

take your time. Make sure the product is up to

your standards. If it's not, redo it. It doesn't.

You're not offending anybody. But yeah, reach

out. to other people, get as much advice as you

can and just, you know, don't, don't be afraid

of failure. And also just like, think about,

are you, are you doing like, would you show,

would you do the show if you knew 10 ,000 people

were going to listen to you? Would you do the

show if only 10 people were listening to you?

Yeah, I'm doing the show. Would you do the show

if only your mom was listening to you gotta kind

of figure out like what is At what point is this

show? not worth your time and if it is Do it

with all of your heart. I don't know. That's

yeah, absolutely 100 % I completely agree. All

right, speaking of all your shows, where can

people find your shows? The fire and water podcast

network, which you can find at fire and water

podcast dot com This is the catch -all website

that has all of my shows, all the shows produced

by my friends, guys who have become like my brothers,

Rob Kelly, The Irredeemable Shag, Sisgoid, Chris

Franklin, our weird sort of cousins now, and

Sean, Paul, and Max who have also kind of come

onto the network and do some amazing shows. One

of our co -contributors and co -hosts we lost

a few years ago, Zoom Yukinori, but yeah, you

can find all of our shows. And if you just go

to the shows tab, you can see the many, many

projects that we've done. If you're specifically

looking for me, again, Secret Origins podcast

was probably what everyone tells me and continue

to tell me is the best thing that I've ever done.

Some some generous people are like you you peaked

with secret origins podcast. It's been a slow

downhill from that. I'm like, thank you Dave

That's really nice of you to say that But yeah,

I've still got you know Star Wars podcasts on

their black canary podcasts on their fire and

water records Which is me and usually my brother

but sometimes other guys talking about music

our favorite bands favorite albums things like

that and even if you don't care about me if you

want to know if you want to listen to shows about

the DC Animated Universe or the Justice Society

of America or MASH, the other TV show. If you

want to hear a gaggle of French -Canadian girls

talking about which Marvel superheroes are hot

or not, believe it or not, you can find that

on our network. So, yeah. Check it out on the

Fire and Water Podcast Network. Awesome, awesome.

Very cool, very cool. All right, folks, we are

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by me, The Uneven Flow. People have told me I

like to talk at them about a pretty wide range

of topics, comics, games, movies, books, whatever,

and now I'll be able to talk at you. Along with

the weekly show will be two bi -weekly shows.

First we have Fine You Pick, a show where one

host picks a movie, then both hosts have to watch

it. Then the next episode, the other host picks

the movie. Each show will have a breakdown of

why it is that movie was picked by that host,

After which will be a discussion about what it

is we just watched. Lastly we have the show Top

3 Bottom 3. Similarly to Fine You Pick, one host

picks a television series and the next week the

pick alternates to the other host. Here the episodes

of the show are chosen by the Top 3 episodes

and the Bottom 3 episodes, as rated on IMDb .com.

Yes, this is probably the worst way to watch

and review a television show, and yes, that's

the idea. On our shows, I'll detail out how you

can suggest things for us to watch, you can reach

out and talk with the hosts, and maybe even appear

on an episode. I hope you'll join me for this

exciting new podcast adventure. I swear we're

going to make it more than eight episodes. All

right folks the 75th episode of studio 2009 is

in the books It has been Ryan Daly's podcast

approach from Cheers cast secret origins and

other things So yeah Coming up here on studio

2009. We've got I think I'm doing things are

in flux like we've talked about in the last two

hours at this point after 15 years of doing this

Everything with me is in flux when it comes to

podcasting episode 76 may or may not be the long

kiss. Good night. However, I do know episode

77 will be our continuing, even though it's been

longer than 12 months, but I'm calling a spotlight

12 months of surprise, surprise Star Wars episode

77. Can you guess, Ryan? Can you guess? Uh, 77

did anything noteworthy happen in the year 1977?

I mean, what wasn't that? No, the Superman superman

movie was a year later. So there isn't that You

know, so my buddy David Draper and I are continuing

on with our 12 months of Star Wars stuff here

inside studio 2009 and we will be going back

to a new hope episode 78 once again in flux,

but somebody said something to me about this

series at the time being on a certain streaming

service and I was like, Oh, I have Amazon prime

LA law season one, maybe, maybe not. I don't

know yet. I like watching all seasons and just

covering it all at once instead of having to

do episodes. Now the episode by episode nowadays,

that's just the way that I roll around here,

I guess. So thank you for joining us here inside

the studio. If you'd like to get in contact with

us, we'll leave feedback for the show. There

are so ways to do so visit the website, geocastradio

.com. where you can listen to and comment on

all of our content. Hear all the ways you can

listen to us nowadays. Apple and Google Podcasts.

Leave us reviews, please. Spotify and any other

podcasting client you choose to use. Leave the

show's feedback in iTunes. Yes, iTunes is still

a thing, even here in 2024. Follow us on X, whatever

that is, at GeekCast Radio for the network at

itsitsstudio2009, all one word. I am at TF2 and

Mike. I don't think Ryan's there anymore, which

is fine. Become a fan of Facebook, go to Facebook

.com slash GeekCast Radio Network. You can also

check out Studio 2009 podcast over there as well

as CheersCast on Facebook. I think you are. Yes,

CheersCast does have a Facebook page. Okay, very

cool, very cool. Go give CheersCast a like, a

focal, a likes. Wow. I can't fuck tonight. For

now, I'm TF2 and Mike with Orion Daily. You'll

hear us back in the studio soon. But, um, Sammy,

can I let you in on a little secret? Sure. I

knew you'd come back. You did? You can never

be unfaithful to your one true love. You always

come back to her. Who is that? Think about it,

Sam. The luckiest son of a bitch on earth.