Pizza Wars and the History of Pizza Chains

Hi this is Brian Ward from Shout Factory and

you are listening to the Geekcast Radio Network.

It's pizza time everybody because I have been

planning this episode for two years now. This

is all Steve's fault, actually. Is it? Is it

really? Yes, it really is. Because we started

Studio 2009, right? When was that first episode?

Well, June, June 2nd, 2020, almost three years

ago now. But wow. Yeah, well two three whatever

I Can't do math folks, but anyway, this is the

goodness of pizza. I am going to say this is

gonna be part one of a series I don't know if

the series will be frequent or not But this is

the goodness of pizza because this was all Steve's

fault you posted right before your birthday on

June 11th 2020 Conversation's in marriage and

you posted a picture of your text messages between

yourself and your lovely wife, Mary. Would you

like to interact this conversation? Sure. Okay,

you be your wife because I don't want that responsibility.

So I will be you and you can be your wife. I

have this horrible hankering for dominoes and

I have no idea why. Must be missing some nutrient

that's in it. Aside from I really like dominoes.

Nope, not getting it. I know, just saying that

I'm really feeling the need for it. There are

no nutrients in it. Yeah, there are. It's pizza,

basically a required food group. Uh, Brett. So

this spawned when you posted this picture. Did

you read the comments too? No, that's what I'm

getting to. Yes, I'm absolutely getting to it,

so I will be myself and you can be your wife.

That's why this whole episode is happening, folks.

The goodness of pizza. So when I saw you post

this, I thought to myself, he's right. There

are nutrients in it. And I said, there are plenty

of nutrients in pizza. Cheese, steak, bacon,

bread. Just overall goodness. Heck. There are

even veggies on pizza, so that's nutritious too.

And she puts, um, no. I'm like, yup, lol, heck,

even pineapple on pizza is good for you, although

it tastes nasty. And then I go on to reply and

I say, look at the food pyramid. You can put

each or all of the food groups on a pizza. It's

the super health food. LOL I'm messing with you

now kinda I know you are we all know it's not

healthy LOL but it is cheesy grin cheesy grin

cheesy grin pizza pizza pizza well and then there

was a comment by her friend that says an enabler

yes yes that yeah I said she doesn't have to

eat it I can take care of that myself yep he

has been my whole he has been my whole journey

LOL yep but Yeah. So the goodness of pizza. Now

we here at Studio 2009, our overall premise is

we can discuss anything and all things in the

audio and visual realm. There have been plenty

of pizza commercials. There have been plenty

of documentaries about pizza. We both just watched

an episode of the greatest food in America or

the best, whatever. There's some show on Hulu.

It's in its second season talking about the rise

of pizza. Well, it's the food that made America.

There you go. And that's the show. And they have

an episode about the pizza wars. And when Pizza

Hut and Domino's started their thing, there was

two brothers at both. One was trying to, they

bought this place to kind of fund their endeavors

after getting out of college. The one brother

was super ambitious and his younger brother was

kind of helping with it. They had a free sign

that was provided by, because they bought like

an old bar, which is - It was the Coca -Cola

company that had the sign. Yeah, but they only

had so many letters that fit. They were going

through - Seven letters. Yeah. They ended up

coming up with Pizza Hut just because that's

what fit. and they had guys come in and make

up their own version of pizza. Literally, it's

not even authentic pizza. That's what's funny

about it is they did this. In Domino's, there's

some truth to it because there was some Italian

guy that owned it and they bought it. Then the

two brothers were like, I don't know what to

do with this. They were based out of Michigan.

What's funny is a lot of pizza places started

in Michigan. The Pizza Hut guys were doing it

the biggest first. They were like, we're going

to be the McDonald's of pizza. They did their

thing first and then they started franchising

to blow it up bigger. They were doing research

on their competition. They're like, oh, Little

Caesars, oh, Marco's Pizza, or a lot of these

other ones. What's funny is they're like, that's

another Michigan one and then they come across

Domino's and they're like, oh, they're doing

really well and You know some of them to watch

out for and so they go after them eventually

and the the Domino's Guys, they originally bought

the restaurant called Dominic's and converted

it to Domino's later the one brother Bailed out

didn't like how things were going and he sold

his shares for a Volkswagen Beetle Yes, which

is I looked up his Wikipedia while we were watching

this and he lived a normal everyday life and

his brother was worth millions if not billions.

They say in the episode he could have had like...

800 million or something. Yeah. And, yeah. And

his Beetle didn't even transform. Yeah, he sold

his shares for a beat -up Volkswagen Beetle that

was the first delivery car at Domino's. And what

turned Domino's around was their 30 -minute guarantee,

which it's changed now. It's not the same guarantee.

They've maneuvered it over the years so that

it's not free food. But there was pretty bold

of them to do back in the day, but those two

are still pretty big. Yep, although you don't

see Pizza Hut's around as much as you used to

you see more of the the the to -go Places like

you see more of Domino's you see more Little

Caesars. You see Papa John's you see Things like

that Murphy's. Yeah. Well, yeah Papa Murphy's

around here, but in Michigan we didn't have that

we had We had like Marco's pizza. We had Jets

pizza. We had hungry hot wheeze. We had You know

a lot of those other ones. And what's even funnier

is the guy that owned Domino's owned the Detroit

Tigers for a bit until the late, like somewhere

in the, I think 92. And then the guy that owned

the Red Wings and owned Little Caesars bought

the Tigers. Oh, wow. And then he owned it till

he died. Yeah, like all of them. And yeah, so

I mean, it's Yeah, the creator of Domino's is

still around. His brother is not, but the guy

that kept with it, he's still around. I didn't

look up the Pizza Hut guys, but yeah, I mean,

it's just, it's amazing to see how far all three

of them, like, cause I mean, when you think of

pizza, really the big three are Pizza Hut, Domino's

and Little Caesar's. I would argue Papa John's

to some degree, but they've kind of hit this

decline. Well, yes, absolutely. But it's also

in a certain area, like Papa John's is all over

Kentucky. Yeah. Well, they're all over here in

Colorado, too. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Pizza

Hut. You know, I like Pizza Hut. But the thing

is, and the interesting thing about this episode

of the what's it called? The Greatest Food in

America or the way the whatever the show is called.

The food that made America. There you go. The

way that they tell the story of the rivalry between

Pizza Hut and Domino's, they also show the differences

of the two restaurants and what their formulas

are. Pizza Hut wanted people to come out. Like

if you're just coming home from work, you pick

up the kids, you run to Pizza Hut, you sit down,

you have a meal. I remember sitting in Pizza

Hut's In a pizza hut on Main Street. Oh, I did

it too. Yeah. So I remember sitting in a pizza

hut on Main Street in Kingston, Massachusetts

with the tablecloth and the pizza. By that time

they did the thick crust, the pan pizzas. Obviously

this is the eighties when I'm talking about this.

You know, the Pepsi or the Coke or the whatever

drink, you know, the red glasses and all this

and all that and everything else. Whereas Domino's,

you know, you, you. Call up say I want this this

and this Okay, we'll have it to you 30 minutes

or less or it's free and what's funny with them

is They had people waiting in the lobby and their

deliveries would take sometimes an hour hour

and a half and the guy was like Just have them

wait at home Yep, don't have them stay here.

We'll we'll send it to them, you know and Then

when he mapped it out of where they could realistically

hit in 30 minutes They exploded. Yep, absolutely.

Now I will say in the 80s in Massachusetts, I

want to say from 87 to 92, some of my family

members would get Domino's and most of the time

I didn't really like it. But then again, in Massachusetts

back then, we also had places like you were mentioning

the places in Michigan and in Colorado and stuff.

We had like Mamma Mia's or this local joint or

that local joint. Hell, my aunt and uncle actually

owned their own pizzeria. In the eighties. Now

this is another reason why I wanted to do this

this episode because my cousin Bobby, who is

their son. This is another reason. Why cuz i

want to remember this part cuz i remember their

place was called pizza pantry. It was you know

just a hole in the wall pizza shop kind of place

and at the time the standard boston style of

pizza. Which means it's greek in origin i was

made the shallow metal pan and has a crispier

flickier crust than most other types olive oil

was used in the recipe. for our dough to keep

it from sticking to the pan. Some places put

it directly on the pan itself but my uncle tried

to stay away from doing that so that it wouldn't

get too greasy because nobody really wants a

greasy pizza. He goes on to talk about the sauce

and things like this, that, and the other thing.

He gave you a thicker and sweeter sauce and they

did this for about 10 years. It was awesome and

it was great, whatever. I absolutely love pizza.

So do I. I really do. That's why I worked here.

Actually, it was because that was the only fast

food I could stand to eat and to make it. Right.

Yeah, that's the thing. In fast food, you have

to - Domino's, though, they changed their recipe

in 2008. Yes. Made like they were kind of meh

before yeah. Yeah, and Because people complained

that they were the cardboard pizza Yeah, there

was flavorless bland chewy the sauce tasted like

ketchup Yep, so They completely revamped their

pizza from the ground up like reinvented it their

CEO at the time tried different sauces cheeses

doughs and improved every bit of it in 2010 they

came out with the what they have now. I'll tell

you what, it is some of my favorite pizza and

some of my all -time favorite pizza. I remember

eating Papa John's and going, okay, this is the

best pizza I've ever had after working at Little

Caesars for years. I went to Pizza Hut occasionally

and Mary and I used to go for lunch dates. We

would meet up wherever we worked. they had Pizza

Hut's for their lunch special, which was at the

Fay, and it was all you can eat for like three

hours or whatever, but we only had like an hour

lunch. So we would go up there and get it. And

my favorite part of it was the breadsticks. I

could care less. Like the pizza to me did not,

I never cared for Pizza Hut's pizza. For me,

it was always their breadsticks. So, and you

know, there's other places too. Hungry Howie's

and a lot of other places are very oily and greasy

and Michigan Jets like the stuff runs off the

pizza and I just never cared for a lot of them.

So like Little Caesars While I like it today

like nowadays like the crust is the most blandest

stuff like it turns to cardboard And it could

use a rehash the And this is coming from a dude

that used to eat it for eight years straight.

It's not very good. The cheese turns to plastic

after about an hour and a half. I'm not kidding

you. You can peel the whole thing off and it's

like plastic. It's like that rubbery plastic

that you'd have on certain toys. I can't even

describe which ones right now, but it's... You

had to throw it in the oven or else it was inedible

or you just peel it off and you can eat the rest

of it. The sauce, while I love their sauce, I

can't eat it anymore because it gives me indigestion

because the spices in it just kills me. Pizza

Hut, I like it, but it's okay and I don't care

for it. Papa John's, I liked it for a while,

but honestly, if I'm going to go get pizza from

anywhere, it's going to be Domino's. For me,

the thing with Papa John's is at first I liked

their just regular traditional pizza. And then

they started doing the crispy thin pizza. Now

I'm normally not a thin crust guy, but the thin

crust pizza at, at Papa John's. Oh, I absolutely

loved that thin crust. Now I wish Karen was still

here, but. When I got to Chicago like I mentioned

to anything that's a chain to her for pizza She

looked at me cross -eyed Because she was living

in Chicago. She was living in the the Anderson

neighborhood on West Berlin Avenue in Chicago

at the time and I mentioned Pizza Hut or Domino's

to her and she's like She'll feel my forehead.

Are you sick? Do you need? You know, you need

some sort of medical attention, what's wrong

with you? Because Chicago pizza, and to, you

know, not necessarily a lesser extent, but also

New York pizza, two very different things. We

ordered from Lou Malnati's in Chicago one time.

Literally. It's pizza casserole. The crust, the,

the dough, the cheeses, the whatever we had on

there. Like, it was all like, Two inches thick

and that's the horrible pizza my wife talks about

That stuff is terrible for you I've I've had

examples of it before like who knows pizza and

some other stuff it's not Good well, I just I

prefer like normal sized pizza. Yeah. Yeah UNO's

was interesting because I remember in Kingston,

Massachusetts, when the Kingston Independence

Mall first opened up and they opened up a new

UNO's pizza. And I, at the time, of course, I

was a kid was still, you know, I was eight, nine,

10 years old and 88, 89, 90. You know, I liked

UNO's at the time, but for me, for the longest

time, I have been a Pizza Hut fan. And ever since

Domino's did the 2008 revamp of their recipe.

I will order from Domino's over anybody else

right now because I just love the way they they

make their pan pizzas now obviously folks we

have to talk about some pizza media and you can't

talk about pizza media without talking about

a certain fab foursome because they like choco

puffs and whipped cream On their pizza. That's

right. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yep.

That's why I liked pizza as a kid, honestly.

Well, yeah, I mean, look, it was the late 80s.

I was seven years old in 1987. By the time you

were seven years old in 1997 or no, you were

no, you were 11 years old then. But you get what

I'm saying. Like, yeah, I mean, we were kids.

We liked pizza because of what we saw on television,

whether it was the ad for the company. or whether

it was media that had pizza in it, and the biggest

pizza -producing media empire was the Teenage

Mutant Ninja Turtles. Oh, but no anchovies. And

I mean no anchovies. You put anchovies on this

thing and you're in big trouble, okay? That'll

do. And the clock's ticking, dude. Now, I'm not

saying I want to sit here and have, you know,

choco puffs, cocoa puffs on my cheese pizza or

anything else like that, but there are dessert

pizzas out there. Place I used to know I don't

know if there's still act. I think they're still

active I'd have to research them for a future

episode of the goodness of pizza But mr. Gaddy's

slash Gaddy land basically pizza buffet, and

I know not a lot of people are you know Have

good opinions about pizza buffets, but when I

first went to mr. Gaddy's back in the 90s in

the early 2000s They had dessert pizza and they

had chocolate pudding pizza. It was basically

a sweet crust like pie, almost like pie crust.

And they basically cooked chocolate pudding and

put it on the pizza. It was awesome. I wish I

could have one right now for a CC's pizza. Yeah.

CC's does dessert pizzas too. Yep. Absolutely.

That's actually where I met Birdman Dodd. Oh

cool, very cool. That's why we met at Assisi's

Pizza. Very cool, very cool. In Grand Plank,

Michigan. I will say that the pizza there is

very subpar. Being a connoisseur of pizza and

eating it at multiple places, that's not somewhere

I care to eat it. Plus, it's always had this

bad stigma because Mary, years ago, uh early

20s she got a tattoo after we went there and

binged uh -huh and oh no she uh she doesn't like

the sight of needles right she she ate the oh

she hurled it was horrible like so like forever

after that we've never yeah it's it's one of

those things that we just Look at the Pete's

of the fame. We're like Nope. Oh The Michigan

one closed down. Oh Wow, that sucks. Yeah, I

believe it You know, it is what it is I guess

Yes, some of the things the turtles put on pizza

though, man, like oh man Who wants cornflakes

I'm having raisin brand choco puffs for me You

wouldn't have any, uh, real food, would you?

Of course. Sushi? I guess I can hold out until

we get up to the street. Oh, boy. The good old

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Pizza is king,

and Michelangelo, no matter which version is

of him, will go nuts for pizza. Now, I know,

you know, because I'm now turning this into a

series because I'm going to have other people.

On this since we've gotten we will continue to

get your pizza story here in this episode but.

I'm gonna have other people on because i know

other people have pizza opinions and. Yeah it's

gonna be fun it's gonna be interesting and i

hope people are liking this thing i'm trying

to. Time media into talking about other things

on the studio as well and hey. Pizza places need

commercials, need advertisements, and there's

that. I found a picture from... Meal prep on

fleek or something, but I googled this. Healthy

benefits of eating pizza brings you joy, makes

you feel satisfied, increases time with family.

Whole grain crust equals plus fiber. Makes you

smile. Fresh mozzarella equals... Plus calcium

and fat protein. So yes, folks, the goodness

of pizza. It's just one of those things. It's

I don't have it very often. And I was mentioning

a minute ago, I was going to mention with the

turtles why I'm going to have other guests on

for this this thing here that I'm creating in

the original Turtles movie. When they go back

to April's apartment, oh I'd like to invite you

all in but uh, I really don't have anything to

offer you guys except for frozen pizza Let's

go for it. I I remember seeing secret of the

ooze yep, and I remember eating pizza like I

Was like give me the box and then I would eat

out of it 1991 when secret of the use came out

the pizza craze was every the first 10 minutes

of that movie is all pizza between the shots

of the people in New York City eating it and

the delivery driver yep to Keno putting it on

his on his on his scooter to Mikey oh man Toss

me a ninja slice like pizza foot like pizza football.

Wow All right Yeah, no, I love turtles to and

I good. Well, I was gonna say one way that we

make pizza healthy in our house. Mm -hmm. We

use the Softshell tortillas Hmm. Yeah for for

technically for tacos, but right we just we use

those we put like I'll make myself two of them

And I'll put them on a cookie sheet and then

I'll use the Boboli pizza sauce Right that they

used to put in the Lunchables and everything

They sell the little bags of the Boboli Pizza

sauce and if you have like a day old bread store,

usually they're there Somehow like they're always

there. I never I don't see them in the store

But they're they're pretty cheap if you get them

at the day old bread store, which is what we

do we stock up and then I'll make My my pizza

on those bake them in the oven and then eat them

and then you've got like a nice little Semi crispy

crust like less breading and you can have more

of the other stuff on it. Yep, it's good Yeah,

absolutely. That's awesome pizza ad campaigns.

Like I said Pizza Hut was pretty much most of

the commercials I found for Pizza Hut in the

80s and 90s was mostly the family dinner table

type ads Introducing the Sicilian pizza from

Pizza Hut. This ain't no ordinary pizza. It's

the most intense tasting pizza we've ever made.

This ain't pin the tail on the donkey. This is

hammer the tail on the donkey with a baseball

bat. This is opening a gift from the pyrotechnic

society. This is oregano basil and garlic rolled

into a perfectly innocent looking crust and exploding

in your face. This is the energized kicking the

teeth mother of all pizzas. The new Sicilian

pizza from Pizza Hut for only $8 .99. Can you

handle it? Obviously with Domino's, once they

started this ad campaign, you couldn't avoid

the Noid. And the Noid was annoying. And be a

winner. Get two regular cheese pizzas for $8

.88. But don't miss out. This deal ends soon.

Call Domino's Pizza now. I remember, well, what's

funny is one of the pizza places, I want to say

it's Pizza Hut, has Batman symbol shaped pizza

right now. I want to say it because I was just

looking at, I was having a hankering for pizza

the other day and I was looking at pizza places

online and I was like, oh, that looks good. I

wish Optimus Solo was here because he works at

Pizza Hut as a manager. I am on their website

right now and I don't see... I don't see a Batman

pizza, but I could be, you know, wrong. I want

to say it was Pizza Hut because that sounds like

something they would do. Yeah, I mean... Yeah

for for especially if you're tying into the movie,

obviously You know because the Batman is now

in theaters it will be on HBO Max in April Yeah,

because they got March Madness stuff on there

still so I don't know it might have been that's

Definitely Pizza Hut it looks like Pizza Hut

boxes I just Google image searched it to see.

No, it's your old stomping grounds. It's Little

Caesars. Oh yeah, Caesars. Sorry, Kevin. Sorry,

Pizza Hut. No wonder I couldn't find it, but

yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. There's a Google

image here of the Batman pizza next to Batinson.

That's awesome. I cannot wait to watch that damn

movie. I'm not kidding. I cannot wait to watch

that damn movie because from everything I've

heard from people, that movie is so, so good.

Yeah, I'll check it out. Yep. As soon as it hits

Asia. Yep. Yep. Very interested to see where

they go with this new new Batman film, and I'm

sure we will cover it here on studio Actually,

it's funny because by the time that hits HBO

Max We will have gone through another Batman

because we started with the other ones but Any

last words on the goodness of pizza part one

sir anything else you want to say before? We

head to an ad break. I really want pizza Now?

Yes. Yes. You talk about pizza for almost an

hour, folks, and you're going to want pizza.

So get those Domino's points ready. That's the

interesting thing. And that's what I love now

is like specifically with Domino's. Hey, if you

buy this much, you get this many rewards for

future free pizza. Oh, I know I have a free pizza

through them right now. They're like, you can

keep stocking up, just don't let it expire. You

can cash in as many as you want in. Yep. Absolutely.

So we're gonna take a quick break. You're gonna

hear some ads and some other stuff. You're gonna

hear some fun pizza stuff. You're probably gonna

hear turtle stuff. And we'll be back to close

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time! Who has a pepperoni and ice cream? I want

some of the jelly beans and mushrooms. Yeah,

give me a slice of anchovies and peanut butter.

This is seriously grossing me out. She talks,

she walks. How can you eat that junk? All right,

folks, we are back here on Studio 2009. It's

just like, you know, the I love New York signs.

I love pizza. I do like pizza a lot. There are

a lot of pizza toppings that I don't care for,

but we can explore that in a future episode.

Yeah, I'm very picky anyway. So the funny thing

is, is the pizza conversation does come up quite

often. Yeah, I know a guy who looks at me like

I'm nuts when I say I like frozen pizza. There's

a time and a place for it. Let's just say that.

Hey, when your wife passes away and you're all

by yourself, you don't have to worry about feeding

anybody else and you just want something to cook

immediately that can be done in 20 minutes or

less. Tony's frozen pizza. Like there's so many

like we're gonna have a whole frozen pizza episode

at some point because there's so many frozen

pizza things anyway coming up on Studio 2009

we have got Steve and I will be talking about

Schumacher's Batman so we went through Burton's

Batman now we get to go through Schumacher's

Batman So that's gonna be coming up in April

and then We're probably gonna have to revisit

the Dark Knight trilogy before getting into The

Batman. So that's three whole Batman episodes

before the end of May. May 2nd, we will be releasing

our Spider -Man celebration episode because we're

gonna be talking about, we've got three episodes.

We're talking about the Raimi trilogy, the two

Garfield movies, and then the Tobey Maguire,

or not Tobe. Tom Holland trilogy you had it right?

No the Tobey Maguire That's that's my favorite

spider -man. Yes. Yes. Yes, we will get into

all of that, but I'm saying the Tobey Maguire

one will air on May 2nd The Andrew Garfield one

will come after that and then we will get into

the Tom Holland Homecoming far from home and

no way home because no way home is the single

greatest spider -man movie of all time at this

point. Oh, yeah So that's what's coming up. We're

gonna have probably another podcast approach

and then Steve's gonna get a movie episode and

I'm gonna get a movie episode His episode is

gonna be fun with Dick and Jane and mine is gonna

be inner space So that's what's coming up here

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Visit the website, geekcastradio .com, where

you can listen to and comment on all of our content.

Send an email to feedback at geekcastradio .com.

Here all the ways you can listen to us nowadays,

Apple, Google Podcasts, and as well as Spotify,

you can leave us reviews on the first two. Spotify

now has star ratings for podcasts, so they have

some sort of rating system on Spotify now. Of

course, any other podcasting client you choose

to use, follow us on Twitter at GeekCastRadio

for the network at itsitsstudio2009. For the

show, I am at TFG1Mike. What is your Twitter?

At cp21. Become a fan on Facebook. Go to facebook

.com slash Keycast Radio Network. You can also

search out Studio 2009 podcast over there as

well. For now, I am TFG1Mike with Steve Megatron.

You'll hear us back in the studio soon. What

is it, Raphael? A threatening note? Worse than

that. It's the check!