Gunpowder Milkshake and The Protégé

There is nothing wrong with your podcast player.

Do not attempt to adjust the volume. Hello. and

welcome back into our studio. You are now inside

Studio 2009. I am, of course, Steve Chu and Mike.

Joining me for the first time on this show is

my good buddy, Tom DJ. Hello, sir. How are you,

sir? That is a loaded question. That is a very

loaded question, and there aren't enough milkshakes

in the world to remove that gunpowder. Yes, we

are here. We're doing a double feature on studio

2009. This is episode 29 of this show It is going

to be an action -packed double feature because

we're gonna be talking about the Netflix film

gunpowder milkshake and another film called the

protege I I Want to remember this right was it

you that suggested I know you suggested to me

the protege. Did you suggest to me? Yeah, you

you wanted me to sit with you to talk about powder

milkshake and Because the protege and another

film starring mary elizabeth winstead called

kate All were released in literally weeks to

be very close together, right? Yeah So I had

suggested doing doing all three of it. You said

let's just do the birthday I did not know at

the time protege was directed by martin campbell

who is amazing Yes, we will. When the Martin

Campbell credit came up at the end of the film's

closing credits, it said, that explains a lot.

Yeah, that makes a hell of a lot of sense, doesn't

it? Yes, it does. It's like GoldenEye with girls.

Not on two of the better Bond films of the last

25 years. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Oh And on top

of that he did the mask of Zorro. Mm -hmm Just

did a lot of great stuff. You also did things

like Green Lantern, but he was work for hire

on that one. So I Think everybody on Green Lantern

was work for hire so that film doesn't count

Yeah, well at least to the WB doesn't count I

Can't believe it's been a decade since that movie

came out. Oh my god Yeah 2011 so long ago Yeah

I'm at the age where I go. Oh my god at least

once I realized that something that I thought

was very recent has been like three years past

Mm -hmm You know What are you talking about president

war dogs was released then? Yeah, I thought it

was released now in relation to these films actually

yeah, it's yeah, it's these two films are They

have a they each have their own feeling to them

But they also feel like a bunch of other films

that have come before them and that's not a bad

thing at all To be precise, both of these films

seem obviously very heavily influenced by the

John Wick franchise. Oh yeah, big time. Yeah,

it's like, I could see the wheels turning in

these producers' minds going like, John Wick

is popular, well let's do an all -girl John Wick.

I've watched all and I and I love the wick movies.

I really do I wasn't sure how because I'm a person

that I don't do well with Blood guts and gore

that's why I'm not a in general. That's why I'm

not a horror person when it comes to that kind

of stuff, but I Mean the John wick stuff is so

quick. It's like holy crap he shot like seven

people in like less than a second and yes you

see all seven shots but it's not they don't dwell

on it they don't like leave the camera oh here's

a bloody severed head and we're gonna leave it

here for five seconds no they just the emphasis

john wick is on action itself which is why you

have a sense of geography uh in all the action

sequences you on top of that They take the time

to give you enough information so that you understand

the character and feel for the character when

the inside incident happens. Which is something

that does not happen in one of these films. So

does not happen. And I gotta say, I think we're

gonna be on opposite sides of this. I know we

are. I enjoyed both of them. There is one I cannot

stand, one I really, really liked. Yeah. And

I think people can guess which one is which.

And both of these films have actresses that you

love. Oh my, I mean, um, gunpowder milkshake,

Karen Gillan, Angela Bassett, who should have

been spanked back in the day, but she wasn't

famous enough, um, Carla Gugino, and the great

Michelle Yeoh. And let's throw in Leah Headey

while we're at it. Yeah, that's like that's like

like supposed to be Tom catnip Yeah, it pretty

much is folks and the funny thing is I just finished

watching and recording an episode of a different

show For the part two of Masters of the universe

revelation animated series on Netflix And the

only reason why I'm saying this is because Lena

Headey is the voice of evil in on that show And

I was, I did not, I mean, I did not remember,

like, I've looked at the information for Gunpowder

Milkshake, but I didn't really remember it when

I went to watch the film today. And I'm like,

oh, hey, that's Evelyn. Wow, cool. You know,

that's, that is awesome. And it's, I'm trying

to think. Who is in the other in in the protege

protege was you? Yeah Her debut in American cinemas

with Dying hard was it die hard with a vengeance.

Yeah, I think it was die hard with no it was

no No, it was die hard for it was live free or

die hard Because she was yeah. Yeah, because

she was the main henchman who should have been

the main main villain, but yeah She did a lot

of work in television. She was the Third Nikita

Mm -hmm in the WB remake of the USA remake of

the French film La Femme Nikita Yeah She was

in design survivor for a while. She was in a

really gross Show called stalkers You know what?

Yeah, yeah stalker 2014 2015 I watched and did

podcasts about that show because it was her because

I had seen her in so many like Her I would say

like you mentioned live free or die hard was

kind of her breakout I would also put in Mission

Impossible 3 because Zen Lee she played Zen Lee

and in In in that and she was like, oh, hey,

there's there's this New awesome action female

star. Yeah, but stalker was it was really creepy.

It only got one one season. She's in the only

video game she's ever done was Need for Speed

undercover, which I absolutely love that game.

We have here and can we at least. agree that

it's a big pile of bull dookie that women can't

carry action movies. Yeah, that's dumb. I actively

excited when certain people I've always said

that if let's say Tessa Thompson is doing some

action film on there, Taraji Behance, I still

do that version of coffee Yeah, I want to for

coffee what they did with for staff Yeah before

and Greer dies. So have Pam Greer grand grand

mommy coffee Daraji be hit instant mommy coffee

and Tessa Thompson be coffee. Yeah, that would

be cool. That would be awesome I mean, you know

you you look at the You know females in the action

genre and I can think of just off the top of

my head a number of them that they're just not

get like They've been talking about the Expendables

for years now and yes, I don't think that if

that ever happens up great. Absolutely. I'm there

for whoever is in it, I, you know, whatever.

But it's like, they've been talking about that

for years, but just off the top of my head, Mira

Cervino in The Replacement Killers from 1997

or 1998, she kicked ass in that movie. Let's

see, who? Well, you know that one of my favorite

unsung female action stars is Cynthia Rothrock,

who was a major deal in Hong Kong during the

mid to late 80s. Yeah. And then came here to

America and they did a bunch of crap that was

direct to video with her and wasted her. Yeah.

But I mean, you look at, you look at Yes Madam

or Writing Wrongs or any one of the number of

films she did in Hong Kong and she is freaking

amazing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I need to exchange

some books. Come. Well, girl. You'll need a Jane

Austen. A Virginia Woolf. And an Agatha Christie.

For reading. Your talents are needed. Somebody

stole from us. We need that money back. Let's

change the plan. They kidnapped an eight -year

-old girl. I can't wait for her to die. Oh, you

know the drill. Give the kill order. Some bad

men are coming to hurt us. We have to go where

it's safe. Okay. I'm gonna teach you to always

guard your back. Hi, Mom. Am I a grandmother?

God, no. I love you. Where have you been for

the last 15 years? Around. Making sure you're

safe. We're gonna bring the sky down on their

heads. If I get out of this alive... I'm coming

for you. God damn it. I'm gonna make a little

noise. You can get infected, or I'm so good in

their legs, and then they'll have to cut your

arm off. That's what they teach you in school

these days? Uh, getting into gunpowder. Oh, boy.

Yes. Okay, first of all, I just, I know this

is, this is, I'm just gonna go with the nitpick

first. Mm -hmm. Couldn't they just let Karen,

if Lena, Lena Headey was allowed to use her accent.

Uh -huh. Why couldn't Karen Gale use her accent?

I do not know. She has a lovely accent. She has

a lot. Whenever she tries to do an American basic,

the American, it comes off very, very flat. Yeah.

To me. I noticed that in this where she sounds,

like you said, she sounds flat. Crap, I'm older

than she is, oh my god. She was born in... She

was born in 87, holy crap. I was born in 80,

anyway. Yeah, I don't, maybe it's a character

thing, I don't know, but her voice, her Americanized

accent voice, as you said, for this character,

it sounds very robotic and it's not a bad...

thing because the character is she's an assassin.

She's robotic. She's supposed to just go in,

shoot, and get the hell out. I don't know if

a Scottish accent, you know, her normal voice

would have worked for the character. Maybe it

would have. We don't know. But I can see where

you're coming from, where it's like... It was

a different thing. If we had he was also doing

an American accent. I would have yeah. Yeah.

Yeah What are the other So, but anyway enough

about accents that that's that's the nitpicky

of the nitpicks. Oh Man yeah, as soon as I saw

this I was like, holy crap this is gonna be awesome

so basically this is I don't want to say it's

a female John Wick movie but it kind of is it

definitely is it's very much influenced by the

John Wick franchise which isn't a I didn't dislike

this film I I like both of the films that we're

gonna talk about I don't know if I have so many

nitpicks though I don't know if I had like I

would say that the showing like if I'm gonna

really like really nitpick something the in in

the in the parking garage okay the parking garage

I was about to say why do they have hunting diorama

in the middle of the library Don't know Their

assassins their League of Lady assassins, I'm

not sure I But yeah, no the if I was gonna get

like any nitpick out of the way it would probably

be the The parking garage scene where the car

goes into the other thing and like I said earlier

severed head and And it was a quick little thing.

It's not going to take any points off for me,

you know, for my enjoyment of the film, because

they didn't leave the camera there so long. But

the basic plot of this is, you know, her Sam,

played by Karen Gillian, is an assassin for Paul

Giamatti. Oh, God, I love him. Yes, yes the firm.

Yeah, we have no fucking idea. No, no clue Again,

it's a John wick thing. It's a oh, you know this

or oh that or oh, whatever Oh god, can you imagine

erase this entire plot? but take all of these

actors and actresses and put them in an air wolf

and put them in an air wolf reboot and have Paul

Giamatti with a eye patch over his eye as Yeah,

as Arkangel. Yeah. Arkangel, right. Yeah. It's

like, oh god, that would be hilarious. So basically,

Sam's an assassin. She didn't really botch the

job, but she killed the wrong person, and now

everybody's after her, essentially. And we run

into, she goes to kill this other guy, and this

other guy has a daughter. and now we have a kid

sidekick and she wants to be Sam's apprentice.

And I thought it was kind of cool, like kind

of cute. I don't necessarily think any child

should be looking up to an assassin. But for

the, for the lot of the movie for how the movie

is and the fact that she has to basically be

her apprentice helping her because the doctor

shot her arm up with drugs that basically paralyze

her arm. That was funny. It's not funny that

it happened to her, but it's like, I can't move

my arms. I have to, you know, it's like, Oh my

God. I don't know. It, it's just, I got the impression

while watching this fit that the director and

co and then her co -writer, came up with the

action sequences first and then build the story

around it. And the one thing that got missing

was characterization. The problem is these characters

aren't characters. And I look at, one of them

was nominated for an Academy Award once. Yeah,

and it was such a waste Yeah was and um It just

was tired Okay, so how many two minutes it's

time for another crazy action sequence That is

totally over the top with and we still don't

know really anything about anybody. Yeah And

also we talked about it being John Wick. It's

also the Leon the professional Oh, yeah. Yes,

it does. It's we have the professional only without

all the Leon the profession all the Once again

characterization that's put into that film of

Leon. Yeah Yeah, it's I Just I really I was angry

because I was like you have this stellar ass

knows how to do this kind of film Mm -hmm and

you basically Wasted it was kind of what I store

a couple of years ago a film called polar mm

-hmm for dread media, which was you the impression

it was sold so on the fact of as Mickelson gets

to be John Wick And there was all this Artifice

and and weirdness and stuff, but no real characters

Mm -hmm. And this is the same thing. It's it's

people seeing on with saying oh I get it now

and Yeah, I feel they think is like John wick,

but really gets the question totally wrong Right

really, I felt really sad for a lot of these

because Michelle Yeoh doesn't get a chance to.

Her big scene is, and it actually reminded me

of, I was like, hey, wait a second. Am I in 2021

or am I in 1997? It reminded me of Wei Lin. Pulling

the chains to get herself up in into like seriously

this film is like tomorrow never dies of you

know today kind of thing because That's the whole

thing every time I saw Michelle you on on screen.

I'm like, it's Waylon. It's not Waylon, but it

but it's Waylon Shame on Netflix for only releasing

stills her with eye patch where she only gets

the very very end yeah because you're like wow

michelle yo with an eye patch pirate michelle

yo yeah that would be awesome go ahead go ahead

no go ahead finish what you were saying the feelings

are are literally tendons yeah you they i mean

Since a part of this film takes place in a bowling

alley, and for the bulk of the film, Sam is wearing

a bowling jacket. Yes. So, which, remember, the

fierce purrs or something? Yeah, I... With something

very female, kind of lady wink wink. Yeah, it

was... You never gotta say, unlike... Unlike

with the next film, you never get a sense of

Sam's relationship with Baljimani. You never

get really any, you get told, Sam's left her.

And I think it's more, this film is more about

setting up a world and setting up crazy action

stunts. Yeah. And they figured that would be

enough to get people to want to see more. They

forgot that in John Wick, time is spent with

Keanu Reeves' character so that we understand

him. And it just, it was bleh. I was very disappointed,

particularly because it was such a weight of

all of these great actresses who I know are capable

of doing better. And I'm wondering if that's

the fact of the fact that this is a Netflix film

and the whole film industry kind of changing

and evolving into let's make movies for streaming

because as far as I can see the only place that

this got a actual theatrical release was, you

know, I mean, it got a simultaneous limited theatrical

release in the US. But then it also got one in

the UK and Ireland. But that was like, like three

months later in September of this year. I like

anything that the shift towards streaming is

a double edged sword. On one hand, you can do

films that are More specific. You don't have

to worry about the four -wall quadrant full crap.

Yeah So that's like Put down original movies

every month But the thing is they are horror

movies I'm to appeal to the people who count

this service for horror films hallmark puts out

it seems Christmas movies a minute But it's it's

more like a hundred Christmas movies a minute,

but yeah there is a small there is a fan base

there that is willing to support that that Probably

wouldn't go to see a hundred Christmas movies

throughout the year in the theaters But on the

other hand you have these things Films might

be done before they're fully ready Yeah, yeah

could have used a couple of more Passes of the

script to flesh out who Sam was what relationship

was between like I Think somebody mentioned in

in the promo promotion of this film that Carla

Pena and Michelle Yeoh were supposed to be lovers.

You would not know that from the film. You only

know it from one very, very small scene close

to the end when they bend down and she... Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, you would only... It's like blink

and you miss it. Yeah, we needed to see... These

are actors that are... I want to emphasize these

actors are capable of doing This so much work.

Yeah, while also kicking all the ass in a better

order Yeah, no, absolutely I agree it's it's

crazy to me that With like you said this the

double -edged sword of the streaming thing. Yeah

this film Hey, $30 million budget and the box

office, you know, it made $1 million at the box

office. Now maybe that's because it's only a

limited theatrical release and it's more on the

streaming thing and Netflix never really shows

their numbers as far as what money is made. That

limited release is probably just to qualify for

a big annual. Yeah, probably they're hoping maybe

some special effects Academy Awards. I can't

imagine for acting but Yeah That's that's probably

it and you're right. The thing is Netflix does

not release its numbers neither do any of the

I think Is it Amazon Prime started releasing

their numbers? Somebody really starts root harder.

Yeah but I mean It was all artifice it was all

crazy stunt after crazy stunt and nobody bothered

to actually think about telling a good story

with good characters Again, you know, yeah, I

agree At the same time I didn't think it was

a like as I watched it I didn't want to turn

it off It wasn't it like it wasn't like going

to the theater paying my money Sitting in the

theater for let's say five minutes as the film

comes up and I see this Ring on this white guy's

hand that just nope. That's not how the Green

Lantern ring ring looks I'm out of here. Yeah,

it wasn't like that. It wasn't like but you see

that's the good thing about streaming is that

I would have if this was theatrical release I

would have gone see it based on the cast and

I would have been I would have been fuming Steam

could have been coming out of my ears flames,

you know the whole nine yards Flames on the side

of my face Perhaps the funniest person ever to

walk the earth anyways, um and Netflix is counting

on you going. Well, yeah think for it, but you

know what it was for was quote -unquote for free,

so they don't feel bad for having to sit through

it. Yeah, but I still enjoyed it. This red notice

film that they're dead. Oh God, I won't I probably

won't watch red notice most likely I have zero

interest right now. Anyway, I think I think for

me with gunpowder milkshake. I think the reason

why I enjoyed it was because It was a very simple

story. Yes, you're right, and I agree. The characters

needed more time to develop and grow throughout

the film. But we kind of... We're talking about

a film that's two hours in length. Yeah. It's

114 minutes, folks. If you can't get all your

character development in two hours... then you

need better writers. Or, if this was what it

was only at 85 minutes, I would have taken it

a lot better. Okay, so what would you have cut

out to make it 85 minutes? What would I have

cut out? Well, I have to look at it again, and

I'm not looking at it again. How much I like

looking at a can going... And Michelle Yeoh and

Carla Gugino and Angela Bassett, I'm not planning

on looking at this. That's fine. I would probably

trim the bowling alley stuff. I would trim that

by at least half. You don't even need the bowling

alley. Half of them meet directly at the video

store. Yeah, that was like... I really thought

at first they were like... in the back of the

bowling alley. And then I'm like, wait, no, they're

not in a completely different location. This

is useless. Like the bonehead. True. Yeah. Which.

Why do we need the boneheads at all? Why don't.

We've been more impressive if the bonehead showed

up after you showed up. After the video store

and after all this stuff and she's got her things

and they're fully Able yeah, she's got the lack

of use of both of her arms and she beats the

shit out of them Yeah, wouldn't that be more

impressive? Yeah. Yeah, it would have been and

then Because she does what she does to the bone

heads there they go to the doctor's office to

find her and the kid and whatever else and and

We get a scene later with the doctor and the

boneheads in there and I'm like really We needed

four people to replace Mel Gibson and Joe Pesci

and Danny Glover Like seriously the first thing

I thought with the laughing. I'm like It's laughing

ass. It's you know I'm sleeping with my wife's

two sisters and my wife doesn't know about like,

oh, I love Uncle Benny. I love that guy. If we

ever, whenever, heaven, it never happened anytime

soon, but because I know he's up there in age,

but that actor that played Uncle Benny and I

love that guy. But yeah, that scene was like,

okay, so now you're - Doctor has a soul. Yeah.

There are some hints about him. Yeah No, you

could cut the doctor. Oh, you can touch The time

with the with the nurse the receding nurse. Yeah

Yeah, because see nurse and the diner waitress

Neither waitress. I think we needed because that

was cool. That was the that was the safe zone.

That was the lake that was okay that that didn't

last as long as like some of the doctor stuff

did or some of the nurse stuff yeah but the thing

is is that both the nurse i'm talking about the

waitress specifically not the diner itself right

right right it is that the main purpose for both

these characters is just to establish how the

world works once again there's so much thought

put into how the world works that there's no

thought put into how the characters work. Yeah.

And that was my biggest problem. That was my

biggest problem. It's like, okay, yes, all right.

I don't know. It's like, okay, so we've got this

library and every book apparently has a gun in

it. Or some sort of useful, yeah. Yeah. I did

enjoy the library scenes and I did enjoy the

diner scenes because those to me again they are

the sort of safe zones they are you know the

the female assassin you know the library specifically

that's their base of operations. And I thought

that was kind of clever, because honestly, you

don't see much done with libraries and films

nowadays. I wonder if this film would have been

better if we did not have the Lena Headley character

at all. Yeah, if we didn't have her mother. If

we were primarily on this relationship between

her and her surrogate mothers. Yeah. Yeah, I

don't know but it is it is what it is it is the

way they set it up and you know The title is

meant to be edgy Cool that there is a definite

emphasis on cool over logical in this film, but

Yeah And I just I just not I first I was like,

oh, give me a break by by about The two -thirds

more it's like ah fuck this movie Fuck this movie

and I was dreading looking at the protege I Was

writing protege because I'm like, okay, we have

Samuel Jackson in it. Yeah Okay, I think I can

see what kind of character he's playing Mm -hmm.

I was surprised Yeah, we'll get to that in a

minute. With Gunpowder, I dug it, but I see its

flaws. And if I was going to score it on our

rating scale 0 to 5 with half points, I would

probably give Gunpowder a 3 or 3 .5 out of 5.

Enjoyed what I saw but I see the story needed

to be fleshed out a little bit more and I hate

the fact that they couldn't do that with the

time like this isn't This isn't transformers.

This isn't Terminator. This isn't Lethal weapon

die -hard. This isn't any of these bit. This

is like I hate to say it they have like you said

Amazing big budget actresses and actors in this

film but this film feels like lowball cinema.

It's a good film, but it just doesn't feel like

it's blockbuster. Yeah, it reminds me of all

those films that came out after Reservoir Dogs

and Pulp Fiction hit in the 90s. They were so

intense, because remember, When Reservoir Dogs

hit, we had this whole slew of crime films where

everybody was making pop culture references.

Yeah. That was what made Reservoir Dogs different.

Yep. And this was, I think this was like that.

It felt like that very much. But, you know, it's

on Netflix, so people are going to still Watched

Yeah, just they're gonna watch red notice just

like they're gonna watch just like they watch

the empty house. God that thing sucked When it

came out, you know The 15 other really bad films

that deaths and I reviewed However, there was

what if people want to see a good crime film

and you will be surprised check out army of thieves

okay many of these great crime film yes there

are zombies but they're very very it's a very

very small part of it it is a great caper film

okay so before we take a quick break what would

you give zero to five for gunpowder it's what

i'm trying i'm trying to look at it objectively

because you know subjectively i'm so angry at

the way they wasted some of some of my major

crush objects. So I would probably have to go

too objectively, although much lower subjectively.

Okay. Well, good news for us folks. There's supposedly

a sequel confirmed to be in the works, and I

don't know where the hell they could go from

here because they drive off into the sunset at

the end of the film. But the thing is also that

last sequence with a kid showing up at Paul Giamatti's

door. Yep. That screams wait for part two. Yep,

it does. It's coming part two, whereas in the

next film we're going to talk about, there's

kind of a definitive ending to it. Oh yeah, there

is very, very much a definitive ending. So we're

going to take a quick break, you're going to

hear some stuff, and we'll come back after this.

Get in, get out. You don't always think on your

feet, anyway. Not so much tonight. That's what

friends are for, right? Oh, good. We're friends

again. I find you interesting. I'm an after -the

-facts guy. Boss has a problem. He calls me.

You guys have no idea who you're dealing with.

I'm going to find out who killed my friend. Love

the unwise. Unwise is killing a man who is a

second father to me. I'm going to end their life

and anyone standing in my way. You got some very

bad people looking for you. Don't take these

things personally. We are way past personal.

I'd really like to see you again under, you know,

different circumstances. These are the best circumstances

you'll ever see me in. All right, folks, we are

back. And now we're going to talk about The Protégé,

directed by Mr. Goldeneye himself, Martin Campbell.

Martin Campbell, great director. I'm very good

with action. Yes, and like I said, I got no girl

in it was a Martin Campbell. Mm -hmm I saw the

end credits. Oh That explains a lot of why I

like this film so much. Yes. Yep. I Mean between

you know All the stuff he's done Uh, criminal

law, defenseless, no escape, goldeneye, mask

of Zoro, vertical limit, uh, legend of Zoro,

casino royale, edge of darkness. Oh, ooh, I forgot.

Speaking of, um, a 10 -year anniversary, how

the hell? Even if it's Work for Hire, how the

hell is Green Lantern so goddamn bad when it's

Martin fucking Campbell as the director? That

makes no sense to me. I think it was because,

frankly, Green Lantern wasn't a Martin Campbell

film. It was a Warner Brothers DC film. Right,

yeah. And after Green Lantern did The Foreigner,

with Jackie Chan, which is a very, very sober,

sober film. Right. I want to go see it because

she loves Jackie Chan because she thinks of Jackie

Chan as here I am doing wacky shit and I don't

care that I broke my leg. I'm still doing all

wacky shit. Yeah. Not happy to see this very

sour, very grim movie about vengeance. Yes, yes,

however the protege At first I was like wait,

this is the 21st century version of the long

kiss. Good night I dig this I Don't know if I

would go that far because Anna The character

in this film played by Maggie Q. Yep, um isn't

Brainwashed sleeper agent into another life true.

She chooses to have this other life running this

bookshop because she loves books and she loves

interacting with people apparently Right. Yeah,

which is why And Moody gives her the gift of

the least stores as it's yours now. She's so

touched by it. Yeah. So you have, at least, and

you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but just

looking at the cast, you have four. stars in

this film between Maggie Q, Samuel L. Jackson,

Michael Keaton, Robert Patrick. Watching this

and knowing that Michael Keaton is coming back

as Batman, I'm like, motherfucker, he's got it.

Like, all I needed to see was some of his action

scenes in this movie. I'm like, yep, just put

him in a damn bat suit and he still has it. Like,

holy crap. Michael Keaton surprises me. The interactions

between Michael Keaton and Maggie Kueh are the

best things in this movie. Yeah, absolutely.

They have a palatable chemistry. They are very

fun together. And when they throw down, it looks

serious. It doesn't look wacky. Marlin Campbell

is one of those people who knows that you have

to take geography as well as choreography when

you're doing a fight scene. So you understand

where everything is involved. And yeah, but he

and Maggie Hugh are great together. And you kind

of almost step together. Yeah. Yeah, no, seriously.

some of their later fight scene in the in the

in Duquette's House or in the house or wherever

the hell they are, you know run around fighting

each other I'm like, holy crap. This is like

again Referencing other films even though this

is more serious than the film. I'm gonna reference

I'm like, holy crap. You take Maggie Q and Michael

Keaton and make a sequel to mr. And mrs. Smith

and bam You know, there you go. You had Brad

and Angelina in the original, and now you have

these. Because literally, I could see these two

in all kinds of action, thriller things, doing

stuff like this. I loved this. I thought this

was great. And then you throw in Samuel Jackson

in the mix as her foster father, who faked his

own. Like, damn, man. He's playing Nick Fury

in every film, isn't he? Once again, to evoke

that film's name, he's basically playing Leon

the Professional. Right. He finds Anna at a very

young age and takes her under his wing because

he kind of recognizes you're already a killer.

The thing about this film is that the script,

which is by Richard Wenk, and I have to assume

that Campbell had some hand as well, they take

the time to give us a sense of these characters

at rest, if you will. Yeah. So that when they

start beating the crap out of each other, we

feel it. Yeah, absolutely. We are emphasizing

with them. Absolutely, yeah. And there are moments

in this film which are very telegraphed. There

are two things that are mentioned early on in

the sequence in the third act at the big mansion

house. Right. Where I said, okay, so the resolution

is going to involve that and that. But it's still

enjoyable. Yeah. And it really was very appreciative

of it. And in this one, by the way, 109 minutes,

so it's shorter. And yet, it packs more into

its film than the original Jake does. Yeah. Yeah,

it really does. It gives you more about the characters.

You know, you see... the father -daughter adoptive

thing that Maggie Q and Samuel L. Jackson have.

It's not necessarily romantic, but let's just

call it romantic animosity that she and Michael

Keaton have. You see everybody else just waiting

to die, essentially. I love that you get the

impression He was kind of rooting for her at

some point. Yeah Where he's telling people you

don't know her Yeah, you don't know what you're

dealing with He's like It's on your head Yeah,

the the I will say for me the only negatives

I have with this is Again that big mystery of

you know somebody's behind all of this and that

person was supposed to die 30 years ago but they

didn't and blah blah blah but the point of me

bringing that up is saying that i have a problem

with it is like immediately the the henchman

duquette shoots the guy he shoots vol and i'm

like wait what was we didn't we don't know what

vol was gonna was vol really gonna roll over

and and you know saying like we don't know what

he was gonna do and immediately like Even and

you see this and you feel this with the look

on her face when that happens. I'm like She didn't

expect that at all And we get this mystery of

of edward hayes Or whatever is we know that edward

hayes is still alive. Yeah The thing we know

it's still alive and yet he's still alive and

yet they're trying to make a mystery out of it

Yeah, they're trying to make a mystery out of

it. And the other part of the mystery is his

son. You know, like, they try to play up his

son a lot and anytime anybody mentions the son's

name, two seconds later, they're dead. Like,

holy crap, what's this mystery supposed to be?

And that's where I think, that's the only point

where I think this film falls flat. Not in a

hole, but just this one point. of the whole,

I almost want to say it's a misdirect with the

sun, because it's like, oh. Yeah, the sun is

a misdirect. When we learn he's in this care

facility for so long and he's dying. Yeah. But

the whole point is it's only because they started

showing interest in the sun that Edward Hayes

came out of Woodwork. Right, yeah. Yeah, but

this is just, it's just... It's so much better

because it is about the characters. Yeah. It

is about Anna, and it is about... The only thing

I probably would not have done is I really thought

the flashbacks in the third act were gratuitous.

Yeah, that was a little much. We really didn't

need to know more other than she obviously killed

chapters and we found her and decided to take

care of her. That's all we need to know. We didn't

need all those flashbacks leading up to that

moment that we saw at the very beginning of the

film. I was very, I see Martin Campbell. I said,

oh, that explains it. Yes. That explains everything.

I, yeah, I did think that the flashback and I'm

like, wait, what? Cause it, you know, she, you

know, so in the film, Moody sneaks into Edward's

bunker. and, you know, while Anna is being pursued

by Rembrandt, who obviously, Michael Keaton,

and Moody blows up the bomb in the bunker that

he apparently planted in there, which is fine,

killing both himself and Edward, and then we

get to the flashback and it's like, wait, why

are we going, like, why are we going to this

flashback now? And again, Another film with a

beheading. What is the deal with beheadings lately?

I don't understand it. I do love the ending,

though, with them with Rembrandt and Anna. I

hope. I hope she didn't kill him, but right.

I understand why she would. And yeah, sadly,

there's no information that I can find so far

that this is getting a sequel, but I think if...

It doesn't need a sequel. No, no, no. Yeah, no.

It's done in one. It tells its story. I kind

of think that in my head canon, when Michael

Keane said there's other ways of doing this,

He was actually saying let's just get the fuck

out of here. Yeah, exactly, you know That's what

I wanted to see is two together at the end Yeah

Yeah, because they are fun together. They are

they are Injured able to watch the two of them

together Yes, and it's very rare lately that

I see I mean Honestly, these are the first two

films that are not franchise. I'm just going

to say franchise films, but you know what I mean.

They're not Marvel, they're not DC, they're not

this, they're not that, they're not things that

I've known for 40. Again, that was one of the

reasons why I wanted to do this podcast episode

was because, holy crap, these are two films that

when I saw the trailers of each of them, I'm

like, ooh. It's gonna be fun regardless of of

issues with with either film. I still had fun

watching both of these right protege Nostalgia

is the right red -letter media nostalgia is the

cocaine Of the 2020s true it very much is And

I will not go on that rant that I kind of went

on on Facebook the other day about a certain

person, a certain writer, director's image being

used in a certain film, which I thought was disrespectful.

Right. It's actually hurting the properties we

keep coming back. Yeah. In that we're because

now we only want from that from that first film,

so to speak with that first film. Yeah. We are.

Not allowing the property to grow, we are not

allowing. The potential means Star Wars had the

potential to. enormous property because it was

literally a whole new galaxy that we never we

could have told so many different and they did

yeah during the the expanded universe years yeah

but now it's the one time somebody tried something

different with it he got pilloried The next film

was all we're sorry. Here's all the toys back.

Here is Billy D Williams. You know, they can

hardly walk You know, here's all this stuff back

and oh, yeah that we said about rain We were

wrong. It was actual the Emperor's daughter all

fuck you It's when it's in the world smaller

Rather than allowing it to expand and involve

and become something else and we're not allowing

generations after us To discover their own Yeah

Things that don't feel nostalgic. We're saying

you're gonna feel the style for this yeah, and

You know, I love nostalgia and I do agree with

you. It's you know to quote Shredder and turtles

to you know small doses through future mutants,

you know kind of thing Yeah, I do agree. But

the thing of it is is that we Sadly live on nostalgia,

but I do and this podcast is this episode is

is proof that I I do Expand out into other things

that are not for yeah more new stuff Well as

more of the old stuff the problem yeah, where

is where are The super kids going to find their

Star Wars. Yeah or their Transformers, but their

GI Joe. Yeah, and we're constantly forcing Our

GI Joe and our transformers down there throw

it has to be exactly like it was when we when

we saw it in the 80s Yeah, and I know this heard.

Oh, go ahead quick We will be doing a much larger

discussion on this because I think we need to

do a return to the modern fandom manifesto there

was recently announcement that they were going

to do a remake of The Last Starfighter, which

is fine. Because The Last Starfighter, you know,

it's 40 years old. It really wasn't, it didn't

have as big a footprint as it could have been.

The basic concept is still sound you can read

that you could reset it and rework it for the

modern age But no because all the old characters

are gonna be back. Yeah, I Think the problems

good. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's like last star

fight. I could see You know teenagers up today

getting into last star fighter if it's given

a proper remake Right. I cannot see them getting

excited about Lance. What's his name? You know,

here's that character and here's this character

and here's Robert Preston's corpse. Oh What did

I just watch the other day? I just watched again

for the first time in a long time Inner space

from 1987 with Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan and

all of that Martin short and I looked at that

and I'm like there is no way That anyone any

Person today that is younger than 45 years old

Would would be willing to watch a remake of inner

space because they need to modernize it and the

thing of it is is is that The problem I see is

that if you put, like, okay, you take these two

films, these two films, whether Gunpowder's sequel

actually goes through or not, but let's just

take Gunpowder and Prodigy as single one -shot

films beginning, middle, and end. I enjoyed them

both. They're new things to me, even though they

have a bunch of, at least what I infer, as as

references to other things and other whatever

or i see things in films that you know whatever

i still enjoyed what i watched but i didn't need

to know 40 or 50 years of things i think the

problem in the future is with creating new things

is that people aren't going to like the new things

and they want their old things like gi joe like

transformers like star wars like Whatever insert

franchise here. I did not see the new GI Joe

for one reason because it was like hey We're

gonna put Samara and you know how much I love

Samara. We're gonna Weaving scarlet so she's

gonna be running around doing action stuff and

shooting people Yeah, yeah, it's Why are we so

obsessed with the origins of stuff? Well, I again

that's that's the other side of it that I think

that that is here's an idea tell a good story

with the characters first and We want more like

no I Will say that with these two films and the

flashbacks that they did even though the flashback

at the third act of the protege might have been

misused I will say that the flashbacks to give

the backstory without having to fully tell an

origin story were good. But with the franchise,

the thing with needing to retell or tell an origin

story is to hook those people, like if my late

wife and I, Karen, had children. It's to hook

them into... The franchise, that's why you have

all these reboots and remakes that are telling

the origin stories because it's like we need

to get the kiddies of today hooked into these

and it's just not gonna happen. The other thing

that worries me a lot and it's the reason why

a number of films fell totally flat for me is

that they're being made with the intention of

there being a franchise. Yeah. So instead of

thinking about telling, and that's what I think

is part of the problem with Comparamix Shake.

Instead of concentrating on telling a good story,

they concentrated on setting up a world that

they thought we would want to visit over and

over again. Yeah. And the main reason I disliked

the Neil Marshall Hellboy Which I went to in

theaters because I love you emotional and support

the people you love Right was that it was all

about setting it was all about setting up all

cool things in the world It didn't really tell

a story. Yeah So so I was like you could see

the pump you could see the puppet strings But

you'll learn about him next time Oh Tom you are

putting things in my head so much right now all

as I all as I heard right there is is the promotion

for Age of Ultron there are no strings on me

and then of course and then and then of course

Put you know poor Terrence Howard next time but

you ain't getting no next time dude. Sorry about

your luck Don Cheadle is no no no she's Howard

you don't get it Robert Downey Jr. gets a raise

because he's worried. We need him. You don't

get as much. So you'll get the same amount of

money if you'd like, but we're not taking it

to a phase. We're also talking about, yes, Scarlett

Johansson, we didn't make anything for your film

because nobody went to see it in the theaters.

But it was streaming. Yeah, I have not finished.

Yeah, I have not even finished Black Widow. I

think I'm like 10 or 20 minutes into it. It's

not that I don't want to watch it. I just things

have been going on in my life that I haven't

had time to finish it and the time that I need

to know the stuff about. Natasha and her sister

and her father, her mother. is all good stuff.

However, because this is a Marvel movie, every

10 minutes they have to stop and have a crazy

action sequence. And the third act bugged the

crap out of me, because I'm like, Black Widow,

okay, she's a spy. She should not be fighting

people in a castle in the sky. Yeah, no. No,

it's like you lost me at Castle in the Sky. I

understand that your villain is supposed to look

like Harvey Weinstein, played by Ray Farstone.

I understand that there's a whole misuse of women

themed to the movie, but you lose me with the

giant castle in the sky. I've not seen Shang

-Chi yet. I have not seen... I have no interest

in Shang -Chi. I have no interest. What depressed

me was learning that there were magical creatures

in there. Because I'm like, okay, Shang -Chi,

fairly straightforward. Martial arts film. Yep.

Cool martial arts adventure film. Yep. Bring

Jimmy Wu in from the anime movies. Yep. fun but

no there are bad they're dragons yeah there's

always a dragon somewhere look some of the eternal

are fun characters i actually think Cersei is

a fun character i loved her in the uh the much

maligned bob harris uh steve epting avengers

one okay that is actually really good but the

Terminals are fourth -rate characters. Yeah,

and yet you're taking the characters who are

big names like miss Marvel the most popular original

character Marvel has made Made in the past since

Wolverine. I think yeah Maybe I don't know if

you would count them has original quote But but

but miss Marvel they are hiding her because they

don't want the certain members of our society

to be up in arms that we have an actual Pakistani

hero Well, you know what you look at the Avengers

video game She was the star of that Marvel's

Marvel's the Avenger Kamala Khan was the main

playable character in the Avengers video game

and I think that's awesome and Yeah, it is what

it is. I don't need to like again you take it

upset me When I heard about captain that they

announced Captain America for or whatever they're

gonna call it first off. They already did in

America for It was called The Falcon and the

Winter Soldier, and it could have been a movie.

That could have been called Captain America Legacy.

And it probably would have been a lot of money,

and not just because my favorite character in

the Marvel Universe was in it. The fact that

they're saying that, well, Captain America, Sam

Wilson has to prove that he's worthy of Captain

America. And I'm like, didn't he already do that?

Yeah, exactly like well first off fact hi, I'm

Steve Rogers Captain America. I choose you Sam

Yeah Okay, so Sam goes. I don't know. I'm ready

then I just I'm ready and Makes a big speech

Yeah, yeah Yeah, he's gonna run the Captain America

franchise and he still has to prove himself.

I I don't know what... That's a stop to a certain

section of this country right now. Yeah. Who

are just horrified by the idea of a non -white

character. Look, I love... I'm sorry, I'm getting

into politics. I know you are, it's okay, it's

okay. It is what it is I love the Marvel Cinematic

Universe and this is a discussion we can continue

on another show another day I will say it all

comes down to character as soon as as soon as

Anthony Mackie showed up as Sam Wilson and You

know the on your left scene. I was like, okay

BAM Anthony Mackie is My new favorite actor.

He's my new favorite this that the other thing

and I really really dig him as the Sam Wilson

Falcon slash Captain America I don't care about

the Anything anyone wants to put into it. I don't

care if if this Evans as Steve Rogers or even

whomever the I Forget off the top of my head

who played old Steve at the end of the movie

Steve Rogers says, you know Sam Wilson's the

guy Sam Wilson's the guy. I don't give a shit

about the rest of it. I just don't You should

be Captain America. Hey, I even made a costume

for ya! Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, hell, even,

even, even, even, um, oh, what's her name? Nebula

will show up and she'll say it. Because, you

know, Nebula was the gunpowder milkshake of the

Marvel Cinematic Universe. And, um, I mean, I

- The problem I've been having with the the TV

shows is that they're still doing the formula

Where like one division was a great. I mean a

really great Look at dealing with grief and mental

illness Yeah dealing with PTSD And which is that

your heart of healing with legacy and all that

but go ahead. Sorry but and I found that part

of WandaVision, very fascinating. I did too.

And very true to my own journey as someone who

suffered from mental illness. Right. And then

she and Jessica Hahn are up in the sky throwing

bolts at each other. Well, again, it's Marvel

and you need some sort of action thing close

to the end of the thing. Okay, if you're gonna

do six episode series, you have an action scene,

you know, a big action scene, like a big movie

action scene every third episode. So episode

three and episode six should have those big action

scenes, and especially with WandaVision, the

rest of it should have been all character development

and character depth. It's not like Hawkeye. Like,

Hawkeye, I have not started watching yet, but

I get the impression that Hawkeye is meant to

be a wacker. It's meant to be a wacky advent

- Oh, Hawkeye? What's Hawkeye gonna do next against

this person? I have - I need to rewatch them.

I have not watched them yet. I need to rewatch

them. I did watch them so far. I will tell you,

without spoiling it for you, that it's going

to feel like, as it progresses with Clint and

Kate, it's going to feel like a buddy cop thing,

sort of. I always feel kind of sad that Hawkingbird

never caught on. I like the name Hawkingbird,

which is what they used to call Kate before they

just said, oh, she's Hawkeye. Yeah, she's Hawkeye,

yeah. I don't know. I rather like... But then

again, she was also carrying a sword at the time,

too. Which may be why they called her Hawkingbird.

Maybe. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

And yeah, we will probably have to talk about...

Fandom stuff we will need to talk about. Oh,

yes, we will have to revisit that But we both

agree poche is really neat. Yep, I will probably

say a three point five I'm gonna give it a four

Okay, I I really really liked it there were a

few scenes of the you know shooting and the the

Blood and stuff and whatever. Yeah, but again

overall That I'm not going to take your points

off the thing, but guys, and this is. Stop it

with the blood, OK? Serious nothing takes me

out of a movie more than a CGI spatter. Yeah,

I. It's not that difficult to make to make quote

unquote movie blood. It's not. Yeah, I don't

understand, but I guess they have to cut corners

somewhere. I'm not sure. I don't know. Every

time, every time they use it, it just yanks me

out of the film, because it's like, oh look,

it's CGI. Yeah, and I'm not really, for me, I

don't, again, as I've said, even with John Wick

and other films that are like these two films,

or these two films are like those films, however

you want to say it, I don't focus on that because

I'm like, oh, okay, well, there's that. Let's

move on to the next part of the actual story

of the film. The action scenes I do focus on,

but I try not to focus on the damage the action

scenes cause. So you're giving it a three and

a half. or a three, right? Okay, three and a

half. I'm giving it a four. I really dug it.

If they make another one, great. However, this

one stands on its own as a really good action

thriller movie. And... And Rembrandt in suburbia

trying to live a normal life. That's what I want

to see. That's what I want to see. Okay? There

you go. Get on that market sample. Oh crap. Alright

folks. Thanks for having me so we could talk

about it. Yes, absolutely. Not every day because

most people think of me as the horror guy now

because I work so much with that's right it over

at Dread Media, please I know you're more than

that though because hello I've been listening

to you on shows for years and and Your entire

back catalog of better in the dark and and everything

like that. So I I know you are Then it's doing

this for almost 15 years now. Yeah. Oh Yeah,

I December will be December 8th or 12th depending

on which feeds you look at it will be my 13th

anniversary Since I started podcasting So yeah,

it's it's a it's been a fun crazy ride and at

this point sadly with my wife No longer with

me anymore I don't have any plans of stopping

anytime soon. Well, there you go. We had a gunpowder

milkshake with the protege and a lot of Marvel

in the end, the middle there. I will recommend

both of these films, but I will recommend the

protege over gunpowder because I do see its flaws.

Are they movies? And Tabitha is just ignoring

us. Of course she is. Of course. That's right.

Those movies don't matter. Do you have anything

you would like to promote, sir, before I run

through the outro? Do you have anything you would

like to promote before I run through the closing

of the show? A couple of things. One, of course,

is we've represented in the... I am one of the

regular rotating co -hosts with Des Reddick of

Dramia, which can be available on the Earth2

.net network every Monday. I, with my good friend

Chris Honeywell, do the Honeywell experiment,

which examines independent and exploitation cinema

from the on down through the 90s. And finally,

of course, there is ATW, the audio drama company,

which as of this recording, this recording right

now tomorrow, we'll see the third season of our

Strangers in Paris adaptation. And we have negotiations

for two other comic adaptations. One of which

is a comic written by a guy that I've been friends

with for many, many, many, many, many years,

and it's about a very special city. And the other

one, is by another friend of mine and his wife,

and it's about a woman who would fit in pretty

well with gunpowder milkshake. Let's leave it

at that. Both Honeywell Experiment and the ATW

stuff can be found on the Two True Freaks network.

So that I think is it. Other stuff And puppies

and kittens and oh my Thank you for joining us

inside the studio if you'd like to get in contact

with us We'll leave feedback for the show. There

are several ways to do so Visit the website geekcastradio

.com where you can listen to and comment on all

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at geekcastradio for the network at itsstudio2009.

So that's I -T -S -S. T -U -D -I -O 2009. I am

at TF2 and Mike, what is your Twitter, sir? At

NocturnTomDJ. Become a fan on Facebook. Go to

Facebook .com slash GeekCast Radio Network. You

can also search out Studio 2009 podcast over

there as well. Join us next time when I think

we're gonna be doing another podcast approach

or we may be doing Free Guy with Steve Megatron.

I'm not sure what we're doing for episode 30.

For now, I am TF2 and Mike with. Tom DJ and Tabitha.

You'll hear us back in the studio soon.