Star Trek Original Series vs The Next Generation

Hello and welcome to episode 13 of GCRN Wars.

I'm your host, as always, Optimus Solo, and joining

me for this war is Steve Megatron Phillips. Hello.

Good day. Hello. And Fridley Scent. Hey there.

Back for another war. And Mike the Birdman Dot.

Hello, sir. Woo! Hi. And today we will tackle

a classic science fiction argument. We will force

Trekkies to face off against fellow Trekkies.

The topic today is which series is better? Star

Trek, the original series, or Star Trek, the

next generation. So let the games begin. Anybody

have any opening things to say before we get

into the categories, Mr. Birdman? Man, the classic

series is so boned. We shall see. Does anybody

have a... before we even looked at the... before

any of you guys saw the script, before anybody

saw any of the categories, etc. Just kind of

thinking of the two series in general. Traditionally,

do you have a leaning one way or the other, Steve?

It depends on the category. But without having

to look at it, I'm kind of torn between both

because those are my top two track series for

multiple reasons. What about you, Matt? Did you

have a preference going into this that you thought

before you started breaking it down? Honestly,

before I looked at the script, I thought exactly

what Birdman was saying was that TNG is going

to win this hand over fist. But I think it's

closer than that when I look at the script. We

have yet to have a blowout. I don't have all

the scores right in front of me, but I'm pretty

sure they've always been pretty darn close. Which

brings up a good point that we should get to

before we get completely into this one. We still

need your help for episode 12 of GCR & Wars.

If you listen to that one all the way through,

you will hear that that one did end in a... a

complete deadlock, a complete tie, there's a

poll up on the website that will continue to

run until we record episode 14. So once we record

episode 14, that poll will close and we will

deem a winner in the Pirates vs. Ninjas war that

we had. So go to GCN and find the page and vote

in that poll so we can get a winner on that.

Alright, that business aside, anybody else have

thoughts before we get into category one? No.

All right, then let's start it off here with

the first category for Star Trek versus Star

Trek, and that is, of course, the iconic ships.

USS Enterprise versus the USS Enterprise. Who

wants to start on which was the more impressive

ship? Well, it depends. You want me to break

this down via what it accomplished or the technical

details, because the Galaxy -class Starship would

kick the ever -living crap out of the Constitution

class. however you whichever way you'd like to

go sir okay well let's talk about the galaxy

class starship which is the uss enterprise which

was i think the second galaxy class ship constructed

because there was the original uss galaxy which

was the uh prototype um well the phaser banks

on this thing i think their type x phasers would

cut right through the other enterprise's hole

like it was nothing uh the photon torpedo loads

are significantly larger on the galaxy class

starship as opposed to this one mind you're also

talking about a hundred year difference in technology

as well as the original enterprise didn't have

replicators the trans reporters didn't have as

long a range science facilities were not as advanced

holodecks need i say more computer power storage

capacity i mean the galaxy class starship could

effectively move civilizations if it had to like

they could evacuate planets with the proper support

a constitution class not a way in hell could

accomplish something like that without significant

support um plus it just was there were more people

on board a galaxy class starship i mean i think

i think minimum you could staff the galaxy with

170 people i think that's what the status i'm

not 100 sure on that Professor, where's my technical

manual? I'm just looking on my shelf here. I

don't see it. But if the Constitution did have

one advantage over the galaxy, is that it did

require less of a skeleton crew, but required

more maintenance. Because you saw how often Scotty

was always in engineering. Something was always

breaking. You could make the same argument for

the Enterprise -D in the galaxy class line of

starships. But with the... the invention of isolinear

chips doing a lot of their computing power, a

lot of that, a lot of the wear and tear was kind

of reduced because they could identify problems

before they happened and kind of do preventative

maintenance, whereas the other way around, it

really wasn't possible. Let me see, Steve, what

am I leaving out here? Steve, what does the Constitution

have any, give me the upsides of the Constitution.

Well, the upsides of it is its maneuverability,

its ability to be jury -rigged in whatever fashion

that they need, not saying that the Galaxy class

couldn't do the same thing because they did it

on many occasions. However, the Constitution

class, for one, it got a nice upgrade that actually

happened, not an alternate timeline, like the

Enterprise -D did, and it's just the fact that

there was a lot more that you could Customize

more or less with it Basically, I think there

were a lot more Configurations you could do with

the with the Constitution class There was a game

that came out about 15 or 20 years ago now when

you really look at it I think it was called um

It wasn't Starfleet Academy. It was like stars

Star Trek battles or something it was done by

interplay in like 98 or something like that and

I remember there being a crap ton of Configurations

you could do with the enterprise and the galaxy

class sure you you could do a lot of configurations

But I didn't see many more. I think the galaxy

class was a little bit or the Constitution class

was a little bit more versatile Matt is this

one a slam dunk? I you know like they're talking

specs and numbers and things but like if you

look at them just look at them the Constitution

looks way more what I think of when I think of

classic sci -fi whereas the the D it just looks

like a giant frumpy space city it I definitely

have to agree I if I had to compare the two the

the original Constitution version Wins for me

every time only because it was the first and

it just it it just looks like the space exploration

vehicle Whereas the other one screams 90s or

screams 80s So if you could have a flying saucer

if you could if you could either Captain one

or if you could have a model of one If you're

looking at it in that respect does that does

that change the way you look at it? Which one

would you rather have or which one would you

rather pilot? Galaxy class man holodecks I'm

not leaving and you and you all know exactly

why if you if you had to have a model of one

The Constitution does look a little cooler. I

will give you that one. I I definitely Swing

definitely towards the the Constitution class.

I've always been a fan of it my favorite iteration

is the the a that from the original series, because

it still counts. There's definitely a lot of

different ways to look at it, and I guess you

could look at it, which one looks cooler, which

one can do more, which one did more. I guess

it depends on which way you look at the ships,

but I don't know if you guys have your minds

made up or not, but we'll go around and see if

we got votes. Steve, I'm assuming you're voting

for the original series, Enterprise? Definitely.

Okay. Matt, what do you think? I'm going to go

with the D. I just think it doesn't look as cool.

It doesn't look as cool, but still gets your

vote. I'm with you for a couple of things that

Birdman was saying. As far as in a fight, it

wins. And there's a lot more things to do on

board. So I've always kind of leaned towards

the next generation version. What about you,

Birdman? Oh, definitely Galaxy. Definitely the

Enterprise D. Alright, so that does it for the

first category. We're gonna get into a series

of categories that is comparing the characters

of these two shows, and then we'll get into some

other stuff towards the end outside of the characters.

But starting off, obviously makes sense. We have

to do the classic comparison of the captains

of these ships that we were just talking about.

So we're talking about James T. Kirk and we're

talking about Jean -Luc Picard. Matt, why don't

you start with this one? What's your first thoughts

when you think about these two individuals? Well,

they're both very cocky, confident guys, which

is something you kind of want in a TV show, Captain.

I don't know how good it'd be in an actual military

setting. But I don't know. I think of Patrick

Stewart. He's this huge Shakespearean actor and

known worldwide. And then you've got William

Shatner. who's known worldwide for other reasons.

The Shattisms. Yeah. Like, there's definitely

some disparity between acting skill, but I don't

know if there's disparity between captaining

skill, you know? They're different guys and they

approach things differently. And I know that,

I don't know, I think of Patrick Stewart as huge,

but I don't know if he's as well known for his

Star Trek role as Shatner is, you know? There

may be a reason for that too as you mentioned

if you're gonna look at this one from a purely

acting standpoint We don't even need to discuss

it Patrick Stewart is superior actor than William

Shatner in any way shape or form you look at

it. You cannot British More than that Birdman,

what do you think when you think about these

two guys? I think TJ Hooker versus Professor

X is a pretty easy fight. Just saying. Honestly,

for me, it comes down, I mean, actors, Patrick

Stewart, I was going to call him Captain Picard.

In terms of captaining Picard without a doubt,

because yes, Kirk, you did accomplish a lot,

but you pissed off the Klingons more than once.

Picard didn't start any wars and he defeated

the Borg. And he made Q spare humanity Kirk sure

you may have saved the Federation Picard saved

humanity let that sink in for a minute boom headshot

the other thing is from a personality standpoint,

even though they're both captains, and they're

both from Star Trek, and they're both the captain

in the Enterprise, et cetera, et cetera. And

there are a lot of similarities that you can

compare. They're very different as far as personalities

go. I mean, I know you said that they're both

a little cocky, a little arrogant, et cetera.

But I still think from a personality standpoint

that they're vastly different. from a maturity

standpoint, from an intelligence standpoint,

their characters are very much different. You

know, obviously Kirk, when he's taking over,

when he's taking this position, you know, he

is young, he is green, you know. He's in a completely

different position than when Jean -Luc Picard's

character is introduced to us in The Next Generation

as obviously a more of a seasoned veteran type

character. So they do have a lot of differences

as well. Steve, what do you think of when you

think of these two? Well, I do love Kirk and

he, that was my original captain that I remember

as a kid growing up in addition to Picard. I

still have to give it to Picard only for the

fact that One he's He's had to grow as a captain

for one. He you know had his heart stabbed out

by the Nausicaa's and then Which is what caused

him to become the captain that he is whereas

Kirk was kind of like he was more cocky and whereas

Picard was cocky until that point and then everything

was more calculated and diplomatic and thought

through. Whereas Kirk's like, let's gamble and

see, you know, and hope that the dice roll in

his favor more or less. And I think that that's

why, I mean, both of them have commanded more

than one Federation ship. I mean, Kirk's had,

you know, the original enterprise, the reconstructed

enterprise, the... USSA and then you have Picard

that's had the Stargazer, the Enterprise D and

the Enterprise E. They've each had three ships

that they've been captain of, but I think that

the reason that Picard stands out more so is

because for the very same reasons Dodd said,

he's just overall a better captain. Alright,

so your vote is for Picard, Steve? Correct. And

Dodd, you're the same? Oh, absolutely. Matt?

Yeah, I'm gonna give it to Picard, but I think

Kirk could have beaten just about anybody else

Hey, he's going to get anybody else. I will agree.

I could make a pretty passionate argument for

Janeway and Cisco and I'd ignore you Except Archer

fuck Archer. Yep, exactly Go back to quantum

leap asshole anyway Clean sweep in this category

four votes for Picard All hate mail can be directed

to. Exactly. I know there's a ton of Kirk fans

out there, and there's a ton of people that like

him better than Picard. I just don't, I don't,

if I'm joining a crew and I get to pick who I,

who's going to be my captain, I'm taking Picard

every time. I feel more secure and more safe

about my life. He's not reckless. Yeah, and about

what we're going to accomplish and the things,

you know, not just in a battle sense, but on

a, just like from a humanitarian type thing.

all that so you know I guess goes back to what

their voyage is all about I think Picard can

handle that better. I know going through here

that some people are going to question which

people I paired up with which people etc etc

there's probably 12 different ways you could

do this but it is the way it is so you can direct

your hate at the comparisons and who I'm pitting

against each other directly to me and that's

all my fault. Send it to feedback at geekcastradio

.com and just say Optimist Solo is retarded.

Hashtag. Yeah. But her next category, I decided

to somewhat go with the science officers, quote

unquote. And I know also some people had different

roles throughout the run of their show, which

we didn't mention, but I guess I guess we can

get that out of the way. Most people that are

watching this, I'm assuming no, but Star Trek,

the original series obviously was a three season

show, 79 episodes from 1966 to 1969, whereas

The Next Generation was a seven season show,

178 episodes from 1987 to. 1994. And the science

officers we're comparing here in this third category

would be SPOC and data. I think they're a good

comparison for multiple different reasons. I

know when we get through all the characters,

we'll talk about some of the other ways we could

have matched them up. But I like SPOC and data

going against each other. And I'm actually starting

this category off with no idea how I'm voting,

because I keep going back and forth on these

two for different reasons. So it might depend

on what you all say. Birdman how do you how do

you break these two guys down? How do you compare

these two and how do you decide who's better?

Well, it depends on when you're comparing these

characters like do you do data? pre -emotion

chip or post -emotion chip and because that's

an important distinction uh to look at too also

are you factoring in anything expanded universe

such as video games comic books and well books

and and for spock what you have to kind of apply

the same kind of rules there as well i mean this

is this is a harder category than you might think

even for me i mean I'm probably gonna go data,

but at the same time Spock does have that half

human intuition. Whereas he wouldn't, I wouldn't

use the word reckless, but he takes calculated

risks with that little bit of a human hunch.

Whereas data, it breaks down by data. There literally

is no... well let's take a shot and see what

happens he's like okay if i factor this that

and the other thing i calculate x amount probability

of success for a spock it's a gut thing and logic

it's a logical gut response if that makes any

kind of sense matt how would you break this one

down or how would you start to tackle it um yeah

i'm just as on the fence as you are i'm thinking

like who makes a better like Co -star or you

know person to bounce off of because I think

of like Kirk and Spock's Interaction like you

green -blooded heartless bastard and things like

that And I think like data gets more like it's

like a data about this like oh, he's just a robot

And I think that like Spock is more interesting

to have in a group than data is I was just about

to say something similar I was gonna say what

if we look at it as who was more important to

their individual series because to me I initially

am thinking that Data has so much more going

for him, but if you look at who is more important

to their individual series, that to me seems

like it's Spock because does the classic series

survive and is it as good if you take Spock out

of it? Whereas Data, as good as he is, maybe

has a stronger supporting cast that you could

take Data out and that show still survives easier?

Yeah, because part of the appeal and the power

of the original series is that chemistry between

Nimoy and Shatner, not just on Street. Well,

and DeForest Kelly. Yeah, and DeForest Kelly.

It's that trio or even that duo working together.

And as much as I love Data, he's not second in

command. He's third at best. And even then, Picard

will always default to Riker. He's like, well,

what do you think number one not well, mr. Data?

What's your opinion, but he doesn't ask him?

You know what? I mean, he's gonna rely on Ryker

more so than data So I guess you can look at

it one or two ways who is more important to their

series or who makes the better science officer?

Because data makes the better science officer

Oh without a doubt without a doubt Spock is probably

more important to a series Steve, how do you

break this one down? I'm still not sure where

I go Well, I definitely see where Spock is more

important to his series. However, data has come

in just as much of handy just because of the

technological aspect throughout the series, whether

it be hacking into systems or his positronic

net. For instance, Think First Contact, would

Picard have gotten out of that by himself? Probably

not. He needed data. I mean... I'm not saying

that Spock hasn't helped Kirk get out of life

and death situations because he has, but I think

the key thing between the two of them is one's

actually alive and one's not, and the interactions

that they have between everybody. I'm not saying

that Data is treated any less by the senior crew

because he's not, but at least in one season

he was. But I think that Spock overall has had

the most lasting effect on the entire franchise.

Yeah, I mean, I guess if you were going to take

just your generic people off the street and say

Star Trek and ask them to come up with, you know,

think of a name or think of a character from

Star Trek, people would probably come up with

Spock before they came up with Data. Well, I

mean, I think that most of the original crew,

despite people not really associating with them

as much, think that those are the most iconic

still just because I mean you say me up Scotty

or you know Kirk to Enterprise or you know You

know and then Spock is Vulcan, you know salute

so I mean it I definitely see that I mean especially

you look at Spock and this kind of coincides

with the original series and kind of doesn't

and kind of coincides with the next generation,

but He's been in The Next Generation, as has

Kirk, as has Scotty, as has McCoy, and he's also

in The Rebooted Universe and in that original

series. I mean Spock's just he's had the longest

reach out of any of the original crew And I guess

although you I was making the argument that Spock

is more important to his individual series I'm

saying that from like a casting standpoint data

may be more important to his series from a writing

in a story standpoint as far as the different

types of Moral questions they were able to bring

up with data as a character on that show well

I definitely see that too just because he's he

kind of It was the the dilemma of what do you

consider life? Yeah, and the human the human

side of things although I mean not saying there

wasn't similar storylines for Spock, but they

definitely had they definitely Data allowed them

to go into areas that they wouldn't have been

able to do without that character How close are

you to making a decision Birdman? Well, on one

hand, Spock is awesome. On the other hand, Data

did get the bang -tash -a -yar. That's true.

But Spock got Savick and got whoever the chick

was in the original series. In that case, Spock!

He won up to him. Thanks for the power of sex

appeal! Matt, what do you think? What's making

the ultimate decision for you here against these

two guys? Honestly, one point that hasn't been

brought up is that I think on more occasions

Data was a threat to the Enterprise than Spock

ever was. There were a number of times Data once

took over the whole D by himself just to go see

his dad one more time and other situations like

that. You can argue the same point with Spock

though because he took over the original Enterprise

under Kirk's command to get Captain Pike adhering

to send him back to Talos IV. But you could reason

with Spock, whereas Data, if... Once he has a

program, he's not going to be able to divert

from it. No, but Spock could have diverted from

his whole setup, too, but he did it anyway. True.

And he's done similar things for, you know, like

his father and for, you know, other other reasonings

that he's kind of broken the code of Starfleet

to do what he thought needed to be done. And

data has done the same and also in the same regard.

Both of them have been taken over and manipulated

in their minds before by other forces within

the Star Trek universe. So similarities can be

tossed around. So, man, I guess what is it? Is

it the iconic more important to the series or

is it who makes the better science officer? Which

way do you go? I'm just going to go with Spock,

just based on my human intuition. All right.

That's fair enough, Steve. Spock. Birdman, your

official vote was Spock also. Yeah, I'm sorry

data. I know. Well, since the category is already

decided, I am going to just throw a vote out

for data. Just. because I don't feel like this

should be a clean sweep of the category because

these two guys are too similar there's too many

things going for each other and I'm gonna go

with who do I want to be my science officer and

in that case I'm gonna go with data but obviously

the category will still go to Mr. Spock and I

could also raise another point for data he has

a cat that's true and I like cats so And Birdman,

you like cats, so we can share that. All right.

Moving on to our fourth category, another pairing

of characters here. And in this time, we are

going with the chief engineer. Interested to

see what you guys have to say about this. Scotty

versus Mr. Geordie LaForge. Matt, start this

one off. These two are obviously very iconic

individuals. LeVar Burton, all the beam me up

Scotty stuff. Where do you start to try to break

this one down? I don't know, like a part of me

wants to just be like, well, who seems like they're

better at their job? And I feel like in most

situations, it feels like it's the TNG guy. But

at the same time, I feel like Scotty did a lot

more thinking on the fly, like Jordy knew things

by the books and he did a lot of interesting

things like the time he load up that hollow program

with the designer and bounced off of her to get

new things. But I feel like Scotty did a lot

more. It seems like the more down and dirty handyman

type of engineer Well This is kind of how I see

it Scotty Scotty is more not only is he down

and dirty, but he also Back in the 23rd century.

There were no other alternatives and you were

out in deep space by yourself He had to come

up with things on the fly or or kind of rig things

up to work to how they should be or close to

how they should be, even as far as enhancing

the Enterprise compared to what Starfleet specs

were. Whereas Geordi kind of had to just maintain.

He had to make modifications depending on the

mission, but Scotty had to do it because they

were out in the middle of nowhere and they didn't

have a choice. I mean, he was the ultimate Starfleet

mechanic. Or could you flip it around and say,

that Jordy was possibly shouldering a bigger

responsibility because he's dealing with such

a more massive system. Jordy had more support

and had data. True. Jordy had help. Yeah, exactly.

He had an entire staff in engineering. Scotty

had the three people. Scotty's like, dammit laddie,

show up to work for once. Yeah. I mean, think

about how How often do you think Scotty left

engineering? I bet you he had a bunk just off

of the warp core. Whereas LaForge, he had time

to go be Sherlock Holmes and everything. He had

time to hang out in 10 forts. Scotty ain't got

time for that. He's got a ship to run. He'll

take a Scotch in engineering, please. Exactly.

OK, so if you have your own version of the enterprise,

who do you want to be your chief engineer, Dad?

Scotty, because A, he thinks on the fly. Two,

he doesn't need help, pretty much, because he

can figure it out for himself. He's resourceful.

And if he can't find a part, he can probably

build it or procure it somehow. Whereas, Geordie,

as much as I love Mr. Reading Rainbow, he's his

Too much of a disadvantage. He's a 24th century

wimp What about the we haven't brought it up

yet? Does does the visor add any points to LaForge's

character? It makes them look cool. He's used

it though to do stuff that Scotty wouldn't be

able to do true true While that may be true It's

also been a hindrance because I mean look the

Klingons got a hold of a code to the Enterprise

by piping into it and crash the ship Jordy shows

the evil of Google Glass. He does. Steve, are

you picking Scotty as your engineer? We're assembling

a dream team crew here. I would just I would

I would definitely take Scotty because, I mean,

think about it this way. If if you're stuck with

no life support and you have the option of being

locked in a transporter for 75 years with the

option to possibly live, I think I'd take that

option. And Scotty, I think, knows how to do

that, obviously, because that's what made him

survive. What about you, Matt? Yeah, gotta give

it to Scotty. Alright, this one I will allow

to be a clean sweep because as much as I love

Jordy LaForge, like he is one of my favorite

characters in the whole franchise, but if it

comes down to actually who do I want to, and

that's how I broke it down, I guess, to the science

engineer. Who I wanted as my science engineer

would be Data. Who I want as my engineer is the

guy that can make something out of nothing that

doesn't matter how much book learning you do.

He's gonna know. which thing to hit, which thing

to put together. So I got to go with Scotty on

this one as well. So a clean sweep for the original

series in this category. And we will move on

to. I know some people were these positions and

some people weren't and as the series went on

people changed positions But we're kind of looking

at the navigators slash security officers of

the two crews So we're looking at Chekhov and

Sulu for the original series We're looking at

wharf and Tashiar for the next generation. Is

it a disadvantage that Tashiar dies? I don't

know but Birdman, how do you how do you start

looking at these four? She was killed by Black

Goo. She was killed by Tar. It depends on when

you look at these guys, and the main reason I

bring that up is the original series... It was

a pretty serious time of, I wouldn't say war

in the Federation, but there were constant skirmishes

with like Klingons and Romulans, Tholians, you

know, basically all sorts of really bad shit.

And whereas the Enterprise era, the Enterprise

primarily was an exploration and science ship.

Like, it was pretty much a peace vessel. However,

that being said, war of Klingon race versus Klingon

and Starfleet Academy, could you argue Star -

starship combat experience be kind of light all

things considered and then you look at checkoffs

experiences young inexperienced you could probably

get up pretty good parallel might be a dream

uh... check off and war sulu uh... as a security

officer and uh... or sorry navigator sorry uh...

once again he's got that uh... that think on

the fly thing and uh... I do appreciate that.

I really do. Then again, Tashiar, it's Tashiar.

And I know a lot of people like Tashi are I couldn't

stand her as a character She had to get bring

her back. I couldn't stand her as a kid. I can't

stand her when I rewatch episodes of that show

I don't know what it is. So for me, it's it's

literally can is wharf good enough to beat out

Chakov and Sulu You just hate Denise Crosby.

Yeah, I guess I mean I liked her better as a

Romulan I guess Pseudo Romulan, whatever you

want to call it. Oh you mean her daughter? But

man wharf as a security officer is hard to beat

As far as like if you're looking at it from a

navigator standpoint, obviously you got to go

check up in Sulu But man wharf is wharf is just

so darn cool. Matt. How do you do this one? I

don't know. I feel like it's it's uh Unfairly

stacked because I like when I think of navigators.

I think Sulu versus Wesley Yeah, you could throw

him in there and take Tasha out I guess if you

want to know don't do it. It won't be fair Take

Wesley out of everything. Oh, come on. He's got

a yellow uniform. He likes the Wesley crushers.

I got I got nothing against Will Wheaton. Like,

I think he's a fine actor, kind of a douchebag

in person, but a fine actor. I think the problem

with that was all script and they wanted to force

him in. But that's neither here nor there in

this category. Like, I don't know. I really I

really like Tasha Yar and Worf, but I also really

like Sulu. You know, like, can you compare, uh,

Worf's, uh, bat left skills versus Sulu's fencing

skills? I mean, they both pulled out weapons

on their ships in various times. They're interesting

guys. It's a hard one. Sulu looks a lot cooler

and goofier when he's got his fencing sword out,

though. Yeah, yeah, man. Shirtless fencing down

the halls. That's what I want. My ship. Fucking

A. Steve, what do you think? While I do like

the original series cast See I'm kind of torn

because there's one I like on either side More

than more than the other Is that Sulu and Worf?

Or Chekhov and Worf? It's Chekhov I don't like

Tashiar at all. I never have. I was glad when

they Decided to kill her off and put Worf in

her position Think it was like I mean it was

the line the same times that they got rid of

Dr. Crusher and then they brought in Pulaski

and then they were like, oh we screwed up You

know, so I Think that it it caused wharf to become

a better character that again he get to touch

two series instead of just one So what's that

Possibly a third isn't there isn't he supposed

to be trying to head up his own new he's been

trying that for about four years now Yeah, I

think it's getting some headway though So they

say That's the same, you know checkoff is doing

renegades and he's an admiral on that so yeah,

there is that option too, um But no, I mean,

I think that it makes For a better case for at

least wharf. I think because he's kind of the

jack -of -all -trades. He does both of their

jobs in one He does, you know kind of the navigation

tactical and communications all in one spot Plus

he was their security officer if it was wharf

and O 'Brien would it be better? Probably but

O 'Brien get shipped over after like third season.

He didn't name in the first season. He was just

transporter chief that's it yeah yeah and well

and he also did a little bit here and there and

you know navigation stuff but they they've booted

his ass pretty quick plus he was always the o

'brien must suffer so that means if he's on your

ship bad shit's gonna happen pretty much so as

soon as they get rid of him then because wharf

would say would you like me to fire about every

you know time that he was at tactical and picard

is like no So how are we gonna vote in this one?

I'm still I don't know if it's just which single

person out of those four is the best Then it's

wharf for me But if I have to pick a team of

wharf and Tasha or check off and Sulu that becomes

a lot harder Matt How are you gonna vote in this

one? First I mean, you know, it's fine. I don't

know. I think I'm I'd like Tasha more than anyone

else here, huh? I feel like I like the strong

female lead on the bridge, always there. I think

she was great from a writing standpoint and I

liked her as a character. Though I think that

Worf became a better character once she died.

I wish there was a better option. Like maybe

getting her in trouble and putting her in a different

place or something, I don't know. You know, I

don't know like George Takei is one of my favorite

people in the world. So it's hard to vote against

him But I think I'm gonna have to go with TNG

on this. All right, Birdman. How do you think

I'm going classic series here? All right, Steve.

It's one -to -one so far son of a bitch Because

I like the one team more but I like the one character

more I'm going to have to go with Worf here.

Alright, that makes it hard for me now. Man,

I'm in a similar situation. Do you go with the

team or do you go with the one person? I mean,

I understand what you're saying about Tashiar

and she is good from a writing standpoint. Something

just rubbed me wrong about her. I don't know

if it was the actress or the appearance or what

it was. Can't put my finger on it. Never have

been able to. Man, who do I want as my navigators

and security officers? I like the dynamic, I

think. Even though I don't like Tashiara, I like

the dynamic of the two. And I like Worf as my

security officer, so I'm going to go with the

next generation on that one. Alright, let's get

on to the next category, which would be the medical

staff. So for the original series, we have Mr.

McCoy, Dr. McCoy, and Nurse Chapel, who appeared

sporadically. And then we have the... Alternating

doctors of the next generation Beverly Crusher

and Katherine Pulaski. I guess we should start

I want to start with Crusher and Pulaski Which

one did you prefer just amongst those two Birdman?

You see I actually like Pulaski, but Beverly

Crusher's hotter It's sad that's actually a factor

for me But the thing is I feel like McCoy and

Chappell were more pioneers in their time Whereas

crusher and Pulaski did have the huge advantage

of having Starfleet medical behind them and all

the advanced tech whereas McCoy and chapel had

to make it up as they went along so I'm with

you at times. I like Pulaski better, too I kind

of went back and forth on which one of those

but as far as a category I'll get mine out of

the way because I think this is a slam dunk.

I think With or without nurse chapel McCoy wins

this one. Yeah. Yep But I think it is interesting

on who likes Crusher and who likes Pulaski better,

but I will cast my vote now and let you guys

continue talking. Matt, what do you think? I

think Pulaski was the worst thing to happen to

next generation since Wesley Crusher. Oh man.

But she didn't have a bitch in sweater. Yeah,

see that puts her down even lower. Like that

one episode though where she grows old is so

kick ass. Yeah, I wish she would die. I bet she

didn't die. She looks so freaky old. She was

the one that ended up fixing Worf, right? When

he broke his legs or his spine or whatever. Yeah.

It's like that's the one thing she's got to her

credit. But even then, she didn't think it was

going to work or whatever. Yeah. And she had

she had no hope in Worf and anything. I don't

know. Hated Pulaski crusher was great But I you

know I have mixed feelings about the whole tension

between her and Picard like the will they get

married won't they get married? They wear pants

will they not Like I don't know I think I think

it is like unquestionably he's gotta go with

bones man Is that unanimous yeah, I? Want me

the one thing that Pulaski made her really hateable

is she hated data She really did. She had a mission

to destroy data. She's like, I hate you, you

stupid android. She was kind of a racist in a

weird way. She was. I think I liked her because

there was no fear of just going with the whole

love angle with anybody. She was just like, F

you. He liked her because she was unlovable?

No, because she made it so that there wasn't

going to be a love story line in that episode

if it was dealing with her. Because she hated

everybody? Yeah. She's like, you suck. But no,

I'd have to go with McCoy because he was the

medical badass coming up with solutions to problems

that nobody had ever heard of before. Right.

Even in the comics he continues to do so because

they had one where they had Bashir crusher Pulaski

and the EMH and they couldn't figure out some

disease that came about from the original series

time and Starfleet medical was wiped of the resources

of it and Bones happened to have it on his medical

tricorder that he stole from Starfleet that he

never turned back in when he quit All right,

so it's unanimous for the original series as

far as the medical staff, which leads us to our

last grouping of the actual crews of these two

ships, and that is the communications members,

which would be Lieutenant Uhura and Deanna Troy.

Birdman? The space cheerleader or captain, we

have an incoming message from Starfleet. Yeah,

well, hold on we can't we can't The other one

the other one was was sleeping with two of her

conies Hold on. Hold on. We can't use the word

Useful and not talk about how useful Deanna Troy

was every time for card needed to be like Mute

the screen for a second. What is that guy thinking?

Well, she can't read their thoughts she can read

their emotions, right? Good poker player can

do that. No, but she was very good at allowing

the obvious to be stated There's a lot of hate

for Deanna Troy here, I mean like her as a character,

but come on she was very useful Yes, I candy

on the bridge see I don't see her as I candy

at all Matt. Do you hate her too? No, she was

actually one of my favorite characters in that

whole series. I don't even feel like talking

right now I don't get it I Mean when you're when

you're a beta Zed that is that is a one -up Is

to have one of them on your crew? Yeah, her mom

was annoying. It's all get out. Although good,

but she was also nurse chapel, right? I understand

and obviously, you know big -time connections

to the whole thing Also the computer right and

the computers her best role yet I don't know,

it's annoying as these storylines at times were

with Riker and some other things like she's very

useful to have on your crew compared to your

who just basically was the definition of communications

person only. Although I guess in the reboot maybe

you could make an argument for the new character

but this is just the classic series so we can't

go there. Matt defend Deanna Troy I'm doing a

bad job of it. Yeah, I don't know. Well, I personally,

the opposite of the crusher Picard love interest,

I liked Riker Deanna. See, that I did like, that

I'll give you. I think that was well executed

and it was, you know, whenever there was a step

forward or a step backward, I felt like it was

actually, you know, a real story, not just like,

well, that's what we're doing this week. And

I don't know, I like empaths as an idea. I think

that's a fun concept. I don't think it gets enough

time in fiction, so adding it as a character

that's usually on the bridge is great. Would

you rather have a communications person that's

strictly going to give you communication or a

communication that also can read those feelings,

et cetera? Like it's the same person, but then

she has an advantage to me. This is no contest.

Well, I mean if you're going strictly from a

useful point of view of what was shown on screen

between the two series Then I think it's no contest,

but that's not what we're doing here necessarily.

I Mean there was there's more to it and you know

Troy had the the largest wardrobe of anyone on

the D Like she had two different like I don't

know yoga outfits She had that awesome dress

the the blue one then she had her dress dressy

uniform that wasn't the dress uniform space cheerleader

so you guys are going for the the the bland lieutenant

yara she may be bland but she's got tech skills

what can you do dude diana you don't even have

a console in front of you she doesn't need one

Alright, so are we gonna have a split category

on this? Steve, are you voting for the original

series on this? As useful... I mean, they both

have their different uses, but... I'm gonna have

to vote TNG on this one, I think. Oh! Alright.

Dot, are you going with the original series?

That's right! That's right. Alright, you're the

only one. I like Ohura! I'm progressive! I like

Ohura too! I just like Deanna more. That's where

I don't necessarily like either one, but if I

had to pick one that's gonna be on my crew, it's

gonna be Troy. She's more helpful to me. I'd

put Dax. Yeah, you know what Dax should be in

this because arguably she at least has cool tech

skills and has generations of experience. True.

We couldn't put everybody. We had a lot of other

people we could have put in. Not room for everybody.

Including this other one who I have down as category

eight. Who's a better number one bridge officer?

William Riker? Or the one that didn't exist for

the original series? Now I know a lot of people

would say this is where we could have had Spock

versus Riker as the second -in -command type

thing, but really there's no comparison for Riker

in the original series. If anything, Kirk is

a closer comparison to Riker. Exactly card in

my opinion as far as like a personality age You

know all the different traits that go into Kirk

and Ryker are more similar and Picard's almost

like the dad Picard's almost of a league of his

own whereas Ryker is Well for one his idol was

Captain Kirk, right? Which is shown on numerous

occasions plus He's got that same kind of grittiness

and kind of gamble and kind of, you know, the

way that he carries himself is almost like Kirk,

but it's more refined. And we couldn't compare

him to Kirk because that was already going to

be Picard and I didn't want to compare him to

Spock because we already had data, so I really

didn't have anybody to compare Ryker to, but

I at least wanted to acknowledge that he existed.

Birdman, is there anybody I should have put him

against? You could argue... Chakotay from Voyager.

That would not fit this debate. The original

series, though, there's really nobody. Yeah,

I'm trying to think here from the original series.

Well, what if we looked at the movies? Is there

anybody even in there? I don't really remember

anybody that could compare to that. Kirstie Alley.

Nobody. I mean, Decker. Kirstie Alley, there

we go. So that would have been an unfair advantage

and Next Generation would have got a slam dunk

on this one. But she was in Cheers. Does his

existence give... I mean, this isn't a category,

so to speak, but does his existence in The Next

Generation give a point towards that series in

general as a character type that we didn't have

in the original series? I would almost argue

so even though I don't want to just for the fact

that They had the same amount of cast You know

the seven and then if you count Wesley, it's

eight, but I'd try not to But They it seems like

the next generation crew made more use of their

cast of their seven Whereas the original series

did not It's been an amount of episodes thing

though because yeah, I mean I I get that too

But I think that also a lot of it Evolved when

Roddenberry was no longer involved with the series

when Berman kind of takes the helms. Yeah Okay,

so that's just for fun. I just wanted to at least

acknowledge that right here exists So we don't

seem silly for not having him involved in this

debate somehow even though we're not comparing

him against anybody Moving away from the actual

cruise a little bit. Obviously both series deal

with a variety of alien species, enemies, etc.

etc. There was a couple pretty significant ones

though that exist in both that I wanted to compare

here. So we're comparing the old versions, the

original series versions of these guys, to the

next generation versions and we're talking about

Klingons and Romulans because they are probably

the two most prominent ones that exist in both.

Do we like the old Klingons and the old Romulans

better or the newer Klingons and Romulans going

when it comes to these two series. Matt, how

do you how do you start comparing these two or

is or does Klingons go one way and Romulans go

the other way? Well, you got a good point. I

don't know. I like I feel like they were fleshed

out a lot more in Next Generation. That might

be because there's more time and then, you know,

all that. They definitely looked cooler in the

Next Generation. That's a budget thing, though.

That's hard to compare. Um, but you know at the

same time the Klingons in the original series

had that storyline of they look so much like

humans they can blend in and Like I can't think

of a parallel to the next generation. I like

that story. I'm dressed up like Klingons Yeah,

yeah, I mean the humans could always just graft

things to their faces and do things like that

But they were like hey wharf dress up like a

Klingon What? I don't know I got nothing Warf,

looking like a man. Birdman, how do we start

trying to compare these two? I felt the Romulans

were more effective in the new series. They're

more of a subtle threat. Whereas in the original

series, in my opinion, they were a whole lot

of who gives a fuck. Whereas the Klingons in

the old series, they were more of a military

threat. And they are still very much a military

threat in the next generation. But you can negotiate

with these ones. There are ones who want to talk.

For me, I might go to what he was saying, and

obviously there's more episodes, so it's easier

probably to flesh out these races in the next

generation. But to me, the Romulans, if we're

comparing the two, are a closer comparison between

the original series and the next generation.

Like, I can't separate them as much. Whereas

the Klingons... the storylines that they did

with the Klingons in The Next Generation, and

maybe it's an unfair advantage since you have

a Klingon as part of your crew and all the different

things you can do involving Worf, but those are

some of my favorite episodes of The Next Generation

are the ones including the different Klingon

relationships and power struggles, etc. So I

can't necessarily say a clear -cut winner on

Romulans, but for me, I like The Next Generation

Klingons way better than the original series.

Steve, what do you think? I like I like them

for different reasons. I like the Romulans just

I like their style and how they look better in

the original series Better although they are

more more militant in the future Thinking that

they're better than everybody else whereas the

Klingons still do but they hold uphold their

honor and Whereas in the original it doesn't

seem like they had one had an honor system. It

was more of just you f'd with me I'll come after

you. But I have to argue also that the Klingons

look cooler in the 24th century and there's a

lot more going for them. Does anybody want to

make an argument before we try to get votes for

either side? Well, speaking on the honor code

thing, like, you would hear half of the Klingons

of Next Generation talk about honor, and then

the other half just ignore it entirely. Like,

that was a constant thing of, uh, that guy's

got no honor. It's like, yeah, and he's winning

right now. Right. Like, that happened a lot.

I don't know my vote only like I said not for

the Romulan standpoint because I think it's almost

a washer It's too close to call but for Klingons,

it swayed me to vote for next generation in this

category overall Birdman, what do you think?

Honestly, I'm gonna have to go with the new the

new kind of generations Simply more or less because

of the Romulans Okay, because like I said, there

are more subtle threat. They've infiltrated the

Federation deep They could literally be anywhere

at any time. It wasn't even more of a subtle

threat, but it was a more subtle threat, but

also a more serious threat. Yeah, I mean, their

ships are massive. Their spy network is unparalleled.

I mean, the Romulans, honestly, they're pretty

badass, whereas in the original series, cloking

device. I don't know. Although, like I said,

Klingons in the original series, they were, they

were a pretty big threat to the Federation. Now,

not so much. But yeah, I'm going to give my vote

right now. I'm saying no. All right. Matt, what

do you think? Go ahead. Didn't the classic Romulans

used to have like a giant bird painted on this

hull of their ship? Yeah. You got to give them

points for that shit, right? Is that enough points

for you to cast your vote for the original series?

Giant bird and maybe give them a space mullet

and they could like mud in the space. I'd be

down I'm gonna give it the next generation for

all the things Birdman said. All right, Steve

I'm gonna have to go next generation just because

the the sheer Amount of ships the coolness to

them the the Klingons. I mean Overall, it's it's

just a better pick. All right, so a clean sweep

for the next generation Which brings us to our

halfway point and category number 10 here Looking

away from people for a minute We've compared

the ships, but let's get right down to it for

the most part. Most the action took place on

the bridge Which show had the cooler bridge?

I know there's different versions of them and

you can break them down However, you'd like to

but what show has a better bridge Steve? Now

does it have to be the original series bridge

or can it be one of the original series movies

bridges either well Either I say technically

we're going up the series against the series.

OK, maybe we should stick with that. OK, because

it's it's even that it's still a hard choice

between choosing film to film. Look at it this

way. Which bridge would you rather spend sitting

for eight hours on? Which is more comfortable?

You can't really sit on the next generation one

unless you're one of the senior most crew members

Well, actually that's not entirely true those

cabinets underneath all the terminals and the

sides and the back they actually pull out his

seats And it's a hell of a lot brighter so you

wouldn't need glasses for eyestrain So I think

I'm gonna have to go to next generation just

because the the bridges looks more comforting

more relaxed And there's more than one way out.

Yeah. It also just looks more intimidating. If

you get on the view screen and you're about to

have some type of interaction with one, if the

view screen comes up and it's the original series

bridge, you're like, what is this hodgepodge?

I'm not afraid of this. If the next generation

one comes up, you're like, dang, son, these guys

are serious. Like, I'm not messing with these

guys. I screwed. Yeah. So I agree with you guys.

I'd be going with the next generation bridge

as the one I would prefer to be a part of. What

about you, Berman? Yeah, definitely. Because

once again, if you look at the bridge from the

original series, there's one way on that bridge

and one way off. So I don't know how you'd even

get to the bathroom. Which, yeah, where's the

bathroom on this thing? Well, it's on deck 17.

Also, this one gave you quick access to... The

captain's ready room? The captain's ready room.

Well, on the other side, it is the bathroom.

Okay. That, and there's more, like, you... It

seems to be on the next generation bridge, you

have got a lot more... custom ability plus you

can obviously you can run the entire ship from

the bridge you can run engineering from there

you it just seems like there's more more control

options on the next generation plus those chairs

look really comfortable you can adjust everything

on the original bridge those don't look like

adjustable chairs and more stuff happened on

the next generation bridge yeah you know as like

other characters outside of the crew showing

up Yeah, the board exactly all sorts of crazy

crap happened on that bridge plus you've got

that wonderful skylight looking in the space

right Crack it with a hammer. Yeah, I'll die.

All right, so clean sweep on category 10 Sticking

that with objects and things like that. It's

category 11. We're gonna move into just weapons

in general now You can look at this as phasers.

You can look at this as the actual enterprise

weapons You can look at this as the villains

weapons that they came across just overall if

you're gonna watch the entire series of both

shows which one features cooler weapons i like

the phaser rifle from the new series but the

original one looks so sci -fi as to be really

stupidly badass because it looks like the ultimate

giant phaser ray gun right uh but the weapons

of that era were because they were more primitive

in some ways. They were more disruptive. I mean,

think about the Klingon Blaster from Star Trek

3 when it just disintegrated people. Yeah. I

wouldn't want to be shot by that. Fuck disruptors.

Whereas in the next generation, phaser and disruptor

hits are more survivable. They're almost a little

bit more civilized. Well, that's because the

90s hit and they had a different government.

Set the phasers to stone. In the 60s, you could

kill people. Now, are we also including starship

weapons in here as well? In that case, the next

generation quantum torpedoes. Nuff said. If we're

also going to talk about weapons, we can also

talk about armor, a blade of armor, which Janeway

brought back from the future. But if we're talking

strictly next generation, because that would

be technically in that timeline, if you really

want to stretch it out. because she was back

in Nemesis, so the technology's there. I'm trying

to think of other big ass weapons. Well, you

have the, I mean, think about it this way. You

have the tractor beams that are more advanced.

You have the deflector dish. You have, you know,

the tachyan pulses. You have the borg cubes that

are - The nanite weapons? The nanites, yep. You

have the ability to adapt and - What about -

So, I mean, I think it's going to be pretty obvious

since the next generation is so much further

in the future that the technology, et cetera,

is going to be there to allow for better technologically

sound weaponry, et cetera. But what if you're

going about just how each series used weaponry,

weapons? You could argue the original series

was more brutal because of things like the Doomsday

Machine. You never saw a planet killer on a scale

outside of a bore cube in the next generation

at least Well, maybe that tin man thing if it

turned evil, but um Yeah, because the next or

the original series had a lot more like I said

Brutal weaponry when you really think about it

Plus there are a lot of blades used in the original

series if I remember I remember a lot of stabbing

So I Don't know it's hard I would not want to

get shanked in the 23rd century, but I sure as

hell don't want to get shot in the 24th so Wasn't

it against uh, well didn't kirk make a like a

piecemeal blunderbuss when he was fighting like

a gorn or one something like that? Yeah, I forgot

about that. We got to count that weapon because

that was awesome That's true like explosive crystals

and john jammed him down a bamboo shoot and shot

a dude Yep, mccard never did that He just turned

data into a weapon I don't know. I think the

the classic standard issue phaser Like, I like

that the original series, it looked like a gun.

Whereas the other one, it looked like, I don't

know, it could have been a scanning device. It

could have been anything. And I guess that that's,

you know, probably a possible thing in the future

that not all guns are gonna look like guns. But

like, I don't know. I like the pistol aspect

of the old one. So is your vote for the original

series, Matt? I don't know. I don't have a vote.

Steve, what do you think? How are we going with

this? Which series uses the weapons better? Which

series had better weapons? How do you want to

go with that? Well, I do like the styles of some

of the original series stuff. I think I'm going

to have to go TNG on this one just because of

the technological advancements. Although I don't

like their hand phasers in the 24th century compared

to the 23rd century, I do agree on the same thing

as the rifles with Dodd there. Original series

ones look like dogs not compared to the TNG ones

But I I just think overall it's a hands -down

TNG I mean you have the original series not only

were they brutal with their weapons, but They

they use their phasers from the enterprise to

light a friggin mountain. I mean torch it but

Birdman agree or disagree I agree Matt back to

you. Yeah, I'll give it the TNG Although, the

homemade blunderbuss is a major point. Alright,

that makes it three clean sweeps in a row for

the next generation. Let's see what happens as

we get back into some people. We've talked about

the crews and we talked about some of the races.

We didn't get into specific villains. So, which

series had the best villains? We had people like

Gorin, General Chang. Khan, Commander Kruse,

Harry Mudd in the original series, and a bunch

more that I'm sure all you guys will want to

mention as we discuss this. Some of the main

ones you might think of for the next generation,

Arbus, that's the character that killed Tasha

Yar. You have the Borg Queen. You have Q. He

may be enough to win this category alone. The

Tura sisters, as far as Klingons go. Lor, Data's

brother. Which series did you like the villains

in better, Birdman? TNG I felt they were more

memorable. I mean out of the original series.

I can name General Chang the Gorn con mud and

Tremaine you asked me Who I can name out of TNG

I can rattle off like ten And the other thing

is we are somewhat cheating here because the

villains were coming up with for the original

series are technically from the movies mostly

Yeah, well the only one that's not is is the

Gorn con and Harry mud and the Gorm is only one

dude I know, it was one episode. You got killed

by a homemade blunderbuss! Keep going with your

thoughts, so you can name more for the next generation.

Does that make a surefire thing for them? I think

it does, plus the fact that the villains outside,

like, I think the villains in TNG are more, they

seem more like a galactic threat. The Klingons

are a regional thing. You look at the Borg, something

like that could consume the Milky Way cons -

Conceivably like they eat everything the Borg

could come at you out of nowhere and Seemingly

had no limits to their reach and Q really didn't

seem to have a lot of limits to his reach either

Not until Voyager anyway Yeah, but that was so

great about Q is that like he was clearly the

first villain they ever fought But ultimately

he was rooting for humanity like if it wasn't

for Q There was no way the Federation was ever

gonna be prepared for the Borg Like him him throwing

the enterprise at the Borg way before they would

have ever encountered him is what allowed them

to start their research and everything That allowed

them to fight. Yeah Like and just think of like

if you were to take these and switch them right

like Khan versus Versus like Picard like he got

duped by Kirk So how easily would he get duped

by Picard, but then like Q versus Kirk? I think

that I made for an interesting story. Well, they

would have been Battling each other with with

you know sarcastic remarks. He would have just

been having fun with him. Yeah, and Kirk would

too But I don't think Kirk would have outsmarted

Q No, no, he wouldn't outsmarted him, but he

would have gambled in the right way just to piss

him off and make him leave He would have rikered

him. Yeah So Matt is your vote for TNG? Yeah,

I don't think it's really comparable Steve, you

have two votes going TNG. Are you going to be

dissenting among them? I think ultimately the

original series only had actually two real villains

in Khan and Chang. But again, the only recurring

villain that the original series had was Khan.

You could argue with races of people, but Harry

Mudd is not really a threat. I mean, Khan's really

the only threat, and he was only in one episode

of the show and one movie. I mean, that's...

You look at TNG. I mean, the Borg are in half

the series after, you know, season two or three.

You have the Duras sisters, which are a pain

in the ass. You have Lore, which shows up upteen

times, and then you have Q that shows up eight.

So... And he's there at the beginning and the

end of the series. Right. So, I mean, I would

say overall that the next iteration wins it hands

down. Alright, fair enough. Getting back away

from the people then for a little while, basically

for the rest of the time here. And this one you

do not have to look at specifically just one

crew versus the other crew. Looking at the series

as a whole, which series had... The better style,

the better uniforms, the better clothing, the

better outfits for either alien races, you can

talk about the actual crew uniforms, which one

you liked better. Just overall, which series

had better clothing? I know this seems like a

weird thing for us to be comparing, but we're

trying to break these down in any way possible.

Birdman, what do you think? How do we break down

the clothing? How quickly can you get it off

if you got to go to the bathroom or you want

to get some nookie? That's how I break it down.

That's not good for TNG. um honestly the original

series uniforms i like how simple they are the

problem is telling ranks it it's a little too

much effort because you have to memorize it in

my opinion well not only that but it's like here

let me see your arm yes please show me your wrist

fine sir whereas you know look at my chest or

look at my arms at least i can make it look like

i'm looking at your eyes um Functionally, I think

the TNG uniforms look better from a military

standpoint, because I think it's easier to identify

officers. Their pants were cooled down by the

shoes. Sorry. Yeah. Although the original series

like I said, they seem more that they would seem

more comfortable like you could maybe get a uniform

an extra size to like big so you can fit into

it. Whereas the next generation, man, you better

you better hope you look good naked. Because

it hugs in all the wrong places. It was actually

very distracting. Oftentimes seeing Picard pull

his uniform down because it was starting to ride

up. Yeah, like that got a little tedious at times

like he goes it's writing my crack number one

So you'd rather wear the ones from the original

series, but you like the ones from the next generation

better Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, although

I do like the later TNG era when they get as

I call them the corduroy uniforms Yes, I like

those as well, but I do like the later versions

where they where they were still the they were

still colored, but they weren't as jump soupy

spandex, I guess, like the ones with the collars.

Yeah. Yeah. Those I liked the best, but corduroys

would be a second. All right. Am I the only one

who really hated when the captain had like the

the jacket with the leather shoulders and the

gray undershirt? That was Pimpacard. Oh, I hated

that outfit so much. Kurt pulled that one once,

too. But he had the green shirt. Oh, no, I like

I liked that what he had like the green open

chest shirt Like I liked that Kirk and I hated

gray shirt Picard. I don't know. I hated gray

shirt Picard as well I like the green shirt Kirk

but Kirk look like he spilled pea soup all over

himself. I know the color well if Now if you

were talking movies, I would say the original

series and the next generation would be tied

as far as because i like the red jumpsuits and

the um the uh the next generation corduroy clothes

but um again i'd probably still go with the original

series for that um but i think even for the the

regular uniforms i'm going the original series

just because it's simpler and you know they need

to take the damn shirt off they can just take

the damn shirt off they don't have to like number

one unzip me Good point. Now here's a question

for the panel here. How do I put my pants on?

Who had the most comfortable casual clothes?

Well the next generation because they actually

had clothes. Whereas the original series had

jumpsuits. Everybody in the future has jumpsuits.

I think in the future, obviously you had a lot

more options. Although there were certain races

I thought had Better you like I like the older

style Klingon uniforms. I know I'm weird Because

the the newer ones look like they'd be very smelly

and uncomfortable With all the body armor and

spikes whereas the other Original ones they look

okay kind of like the Romulans, you know They

they look like they're completely uncomfortable

wearing the padded shoulders. They look you see

When I look at a ramen from the next generation,

I feel like they'd feel to the touch Like the

inside of a pizza delivery bag. It does look

like that, like they're fuzzy and they're just,

they poke you. That is awkwardly accurate. Like,

I just want to walk up to them, like, I'm sorry

Sub Commander, whatever the hell your name is.

Can I just touch you for a minute? I'm just really

curious. The card walks up. It is static electricity.

Fascinating. Mr. Data, come here. But yeah, so

I'm going for The Next Generation. Matt, that

means you're the only vote I need here. Which

clothing would you prefer? Which one do you like

better? I like what Steve said earlier about

if you were comparing the movies, because I feel

like just the uniforms and the jackets from Wrath

of Khan were some of the coolest costume design

in any Star Trek ever. Oh yeah, easily. It was

so good. So I'm gonna go with the original and

I know we're not doing movies But I like the

original outfits like if you were to load up

my Star Trek online account If you could ever

find it like all of my crew were in original

uniforms All right, fair enough. If you had to

pay for which is stupid Then in uniforms we have

a split two to two two for the next generation

two for the original series our first Tie in

as amongst the category goes see how that plays

in effect later on. Going into category 14, you

can compare the theme song, you can compare the

underlying themes, the different musical scores.

Which series did music better, Birdman? TNG,

Beyond the Shadow of a Dode. However, that being

said, the original theme is more iconic, and

a lot of people recognize all those Star Trek

sound effects, because they're kind of part of

the pop culture Identity's not the word, but

kind of the nerd social fabric. Like, you know

what a phaser is, you know what a photon torpedo

is. With Star Trek The Next Generation, yeah,

it's got really good sound design, but... I agree

with that point. I don't necessarily agree that

the original series has the more iconic theme

song, though. I don't know. If you were to pull

people on the street, they'd be able to tell

you, especially with that... I think more people

these days would be confused if you're taking

outside of the geek circles. Well, the funny

thing is, is the original series theme, they

reincorporated it and all they did was just add

a little bit to the end and threw it into the

new rebooted films. I don't know. I just feel

like if you took just a general person and played

both themes, I think more people would identify

the Next Generation theme song before they could

figure out what the heck was going on with that

original one. But I think it would also depend

on if they saw the new the rebooted films because

if they saw the rebooted films Then it's the

same thing. Yeah, next generation is the better

theme though. I like What do you say Matt but

like what if they're tenacious D fans because

tenacious D plays the original Star Trek with

its completed lyrics every concert That's true.

Have you guys heard that version? No, but it

sounds interesting. Thankfully not. Oh, I'll

put a link so that you can put it in the show

ever. And we just lost our viewership. Don't

hate on the D. I like the D. I just don't want

lyrics to that song because it's so good. It's

like singing the X -Men theme song. Matt, who

has a better theme and who used music better

throughout the series? Well, I don't know. I

feel like this, I can't fairly judge this category

because when I hear just the first, you know,

three or four seconds of Next Generation, I'm

like five again. Yep. And it's like that, that

was what I grew up with and that's what it's

going to be. Like, I like both themes. I really

do. I don't dislike both themes, but the original

series one gets on my nerves faster than the

Next Generation one does. Like, I can just listen

to the Next Generation theme in the background,

like on a somewhat s - Softer tone and just be

like yeah, this is awesome. We're the original

series eventually. I'm gonna be like stop that

Nail fingernails on chalkboard, please stop.

Yeah, I enjoyed it I like all start Star Trek

themes like from well other than the the Enterprise

because I hate enterprise. I like that theme

We have now concluded that Birdman has terrible

theme song. I'm just kidding Totally kidding

Matt, where's your vote going on the music? Next

Generation, but that's only nostalgia. Fair enough.

Steve? Well, the funny thing about the Next Generation

is actually it's part of the motion picture theme.

Like, part of it. Okay. But anyways, I'm going

TNG. I just prefer the theme and the ship sounds

instead of hearing... I hear... You know, as

it goes past, and I know it's something minute

and stupid, but plus just the tune to it is better,

and you have instead of, space, the final frontier,

it's, these are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.

So I mean, it's just, I don't know, it's more

fun. Good point. All right, now for a category

that I completely need your guys' help on because

I know nothing about it. Which franchises had

the better games? You can talk about board games,

card games, video games, arcade games, or however

which way you want to go with this. Which franchise

has produced better games? Where do we even start

with this one? They have good games? There have

been some good games. I mean, I can even talk

about some of the role -playing games, stuff

done by Fossa, Last Unicorn, and Decipher. I

think arguably the best one is probably the Decipher

one, although FASA did put together a pretty

good board game for the original series. There

was actually even a Starship Battles miniatures

game, very similar to Star Wars Empire that's

out right now. It's like that little X -Wing

game. um there were a number of really good star

trek original games that came out on the pc in

the 90s there's like star feet academy i think

it was called star trek star trek command they

were done by interplay and like i said i think

from 1997 98 till probably about 2003 2004 They're

really good set in the original kind of universe

you can play as the Romulans the gore and the

Klingon the Federation They were really really

cool There were games on the next generation

like Star Trek Federation really good game there

is Federation 2, I think it was. I can't remember.

I reviewed one on my show like a year and a half

ago. There was also Star Trek Elite Force, which

is more Voyager, but still set in the TNG era

timeline. There was a couple games on the Genesis.

There was a couple games on the Super Nintendo.

There were games on the NES. I would argue that

the better ones were the original series because

I think then you could explore the lore a little

bit more than the TV series could and You could

really expand upon it and you could mod them

because I remember playing Starfleet command

Modding the crap out of my ships. I could have

Starfleet Marines board Klingon ships and that

was so cool Although some of the later TNG games

did start to get it right, but I haven't played

one that's truly great. There was one that came

up for the 360 a couple years ago, or sorry,

not a couple years ago, probably about eight

years ago now. I can't remember what the hell

it was called, but it wasn't bad. Yeah, someone

else. I'm going for hours. I've never played

a next generation game. I remember renting or

getting from somebody or something, one of the

original series games, and it had to be either

for the Nintendo, the Super Nintendo, possibly

the Nintendo 64, but it was one of those early,

you know, first couple generations of Nintendo's

games, systems, and all I remember is that the

game was freaking impossible. I remember being

Kirk and then you had like your your your away

team, which you could pick, I believe certain

members to join you. Are you talking about the

one where you get onto the planet and you get

stuck in the cave? Yeah. I still have that one.

The 25th anniversary game. All I remember is

it being hard as hell. Blue label, right? Yep.

And I just couldn't figure out what the heck

I was supposed to do. It was like one of those

where you had to get one thing in order to do

something else, in order to do something else.

Yeah, it was a pain in the ass. Even the controls

were difficult on it. It was not a very good

port. I think that was the port of the Apple

II version or the one for the Mac anyway. That

is the limit of my Star Trek gaming experiences.

Steve, you've played a few games though, right?

I've played some on where you just command the

ships. I've played them all the way back to when

they were like DOS games. Okay. And various incarnations

of that as well. Is it true that the computer

has had better Star Trek games than like the

actual consoles? By far and away. Yeah, I would

definitely say so. The console versions pale

in comparison usually. I've had a few that have

been entertaining for about an hour and The PC

I'm at least able to keep entertained for a few

until they get too difficult to Continue which

games have you had the most enjoyment from Steve?

Like I've played Star Trek online that's one

of its it's halfway decent I wouldn't say that

it's it's perfect or anything. I Enjoyed back

in the day the 25th anniversary game until I

got stuck in that cave Because I did figure it

out pretty well. I just once I got in that cave

I screwed there was and I guess there's a lot

of episodes to that that game Once you get past

that point, I never did and DOS is dead. So can't

play it anymore Don't know why I still have the

disc I've also played not necessarily on the

computer. I've I've played like the hero clicks

board games, okay of the the original series

and like the the Federation verse the Klingons

and It's it's actually It's actually quite fun

Matt what's your gaming experience when it comes

to the Star Trek franchise? Have you had you

played any of the Star Trek games? Maybe a dozen

of them like I know I've played at least a little

bit of bridge commander I played Ship Creator.

I mentioned earlier I played the MMO. I played

Starfleet Command 1 and 3. I played whatever

that ground -based RTS was that was really bad.

Oh, man. I was waiting for someone to mention

that. What a piece of shit. I still have my disc

somewhere, and I bet I could find it in five

minutes if I needed it, but I would never need

it. Like, that thing was glitchy, even patched

up, you know, years later. to the point of being

unplayable. What about any gaming experience

outside of video games with Star Trek? Does anybody

have any? Oh, God, the role -playing games. As

you guys know, I'm a huge tabletop gamer. I do

thesewordsareterrible .com. There's my one shameless

plug. There'll be more, guys. For me, I'd say

I like... There have been different games for

the various franchises. Back in the mid -90s,

there was a company called Last Unicorn, and

they produced games for the original series,

TNG, DS9. There was a Voyage one, but it got

canceled because the company lost the license,

or they went out of business or something. Later

2000s done by decipher. I think it was and those

ones I didn't mind although I like fascist rules

that those are the early ones in the early early

to mid 80s and it came in a box set and I've

always just like how fascist rules They're really

easy and quick to kind of learn. I mean kind

of like Shadowrun If you're familiar with that

particular role -playing system now, I don't

recall what system they use for that But I do

like the box art for it. I'm trying to think

here if there's anything superior about any of

the other non -video gamey stuff. There is a

Starship Battle game, which like I said is played

very similar to Star Wars Rebels or Empire, whatever

the hell it is right now. And that's a lot of

fun and that's classic TNG. or sorry, that makes

no sense. And that's classic series stuff and

that's a lot of fun. I think a lot of classic

RPG for the classic series can be a lot of fun

because your imagination has to do more because

you don't have... You almost have too much when

you involve the stuff from TNG forward with the

kind of role -playing stuff, because like you

said, you can put in the Borg, you can put in

the Ferengi and all this other stuff. And if

you're not a decent game master and storyteller,

you can lose the storyline in... the details

like you transport to this and starbase 83 and

the fringy whatever whereas with the classic

series i find you had the story came first because

you had a limited tool sets you really i found

you had to work a little bit harder now that's

a debatable point because you could make the

same argument for tng from a purely role playing

standpoint but i would say classic series is

a little bit better on that side of gaming, because

I think they treat the franchise as a little

bit better, because it is so beloved. But one

of the things that no one talks about, and this

is a video game, there were two of these that

we haven't brought up, there's one called Borg

Assimilator, which is essentially a torture device.

You grip a stick and it gives you this electric

shock. It's like you're being assimilated, and

you have to hold on for as long as you can. And

the other one was an Elite Forces phaser rifle

light gun game that was in the arcades. Wow.

That was pretty friggin' cool. But overall, if

I had to say Classic Series wins here, because

I think the era forced you to be more creative,

and the video games were treated better. Fair

enough Matt, what do you think as far as the

overall games go? Which which franchise do you

do you think has the better selection? Well,

I feel like it's unfair as far as my vote because

my friends would never play the card games with

me And though I I've you know had a regular RV

group, you know all my life They're all like

well, you know, we'll do D &D but Star Trek Rp

is too nerdy So I haven't had too much experience.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it's the opposite I

have very interesting friends, let's say. So,

like, I never got to experience anything but

the video games, and I don't know, I feel like

the next generation video games, you know, since

it was closer to the video game era, were treated

better. So I'm gonna say next generation, though

I probably would have more fun playing the other

ones. Steve, what do you think? I'm gonna go...

We have one vote for each. I'm going T... and

G. Alright. Two votes for T and G. I will simply

revert back to the fact that first of all I know

Birdman plays a shit ton of games and he voted

for the original series. And second, the only

game I've ever played for any of them was the

original series. So even though it was hard as

crap, frustrating and not very rewarding. I will

cast my vote for the original series, which makes

it another tie. Alright, moving on to the 16th

category. We're almost done, folks. Only a few

more to go. 16th category, we can't break down

the series without breaking down the movies that

came from the series, so this is our one chance

to really delve into the movies a little bit.

Which franchises had the better overall movies?

Obviously for the original we have The Motion

Picture, The Wrath of Khan, The Search for Spock,

The Voyage Home, The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered

Country, and I guess you could then think about

the recent reboot. And for the next generation

you have Generations, First Contact, Insurrection,

and Nemesis. Matt, how do you break down the

movies for each franchise? Well, I think with

TNG everyone has their opinions. I think with

the original series, everyone has the same opinion,

which is that half of them are bad. That said,

I think in a lot of respects, some of the older

series movies are more known than the older series,

but that might just be a time factor since, you

know, I was, you know, born after almost every

one of the movies were done for the original

series. And the series had been off the air for

20 years. Yeah, I do think you're right though

that there's usually more of a universal Accepted

opinion about With the original series that this

movie is bad. This movie's good. This movie's

bad This movie's good. Whereas the the next generation

movies There's a lot of back and forth a lot

of people will like a certain movie and a lot

of people will hate a certain movie Birdman,

what do you think about the movie franchises

of each one? I think arguably And this is obviously

my opinion. With TNG, the one everybody says

is awesome is First Contact, right? Yeah. When

you ask people what's the best original series

movies, you get a bunch of different opinions

because they're frankly better. Wrath of Khan

is a film classic. And that's a movie I actually

call a film. not a movie. And that meant that

to me it means it's a step above your average

popcorn flick. You get such a great chemistry

in almost every single movie because that cast

is so good together. I mean, Voyage Home is the

Star Trek movie for non -Star Trek people. It

draws people in. You don't need to know sweet

and crap all about Star Trek. And it's still

fun. Nuclear vessels transparent aluminum double

dumbass on you There's some okay. I know some

people really hate certain next generation films

But overall I enjoy all of the next generation

films to different directions. I even enjoy insurrection

Maybe at a different level, but I enjoy them

all whereas there is some of the original series

movies that are just Awful. The first one is

what they originally used for torture in Guantanamo

Bay. And that's not the only awful one amongst

them. Come on. Final Frontier is goofy because

what does God need with a starship? That's hilarious.

That is one of the worst movies ever. Why does

Shatner? We're not dancing in the desert should

just be an animated GIF somewhere It's hilarious,

but you got over actually doing something If

you include the reboots, I guess that's not fair

but since there hasn't been any reboots for the

next generation yet But I think the reboots are

really good no matter what everybody else says

about them I have really enjoyed both of the

film so far in this new chapter of the original

series so that there's definitely more movies

to pick from so i guess even if you take the

three or four shitty movies out from the original

series and you add the reboots in you're still

left with a bunch of good movies so there's definitely

more volume i don't know steve what do you think

crap though man come on which one In the darkness

was crap. I disagree. I agree. It was a cobbled

together piece of shit that was... We're not

getting into that because we've gotten into that.

Yeah, Captain Robocop, so that I will give you.

We've gotten into that before. I will forever

disagree with your guys' opinion on Into the

Darkness. But, Steve, we haven't got your opinion

overall, which... Well, being that that's a reboot,

it doesn't count in this category. Well, I would

say that... I have, I mean three out of the four

TNG films I enjoy. I will argue that First Contact

is the best of the TNG and I almost argue that

Nemesis for some reasons and Generations for

some reasons. Generations, the only good part

about it is... The beginning? Is Captain Kirk.

That's just the whole movie for me. And it's

such a bitch way for the Enterprise to go out,

too. Yeah, because Troy was at the controls.

The Enterprise was killed by Google Glass. Yep.

It's... UGH! There's just as many moments from

The Final Frontier in the motion picture. Well,

the motion picture was just a piece of shit anyway,

and then you get a figure two that it came out

after Star Wars. So they were competing. Don't

ever watch those two movies back -to -back, by

the way. Don't ever watch Star Trek The Motion

Picture and then any Star Wars film back -to

-back. The Motion Picture was just too damn long.

I couldn't tell, I couldn't even appreciate it

barely until I got older and even then I still

don't like it. I think Birdman does bring up

a good point though, if you're taking which movie

out of all of them gets the best acclaim, Wrath

of Khan is definitely set on a pedestal above

any other Star Trek film that's ever been made.

I'll tell you why. Because it's because it was

actually well written. There was some gravity

to it as well because when Spock died that was

a game changer I Mean, it's like films today

where they don't actually kill any main character.

Yeah, and they get saved by magic blood Sorry,

I had to I'm a horrible person. You are it's

okay, but the right guy said Khan in that film

and the wrath of Khan Let's get into some more

nitpicks on a new movie. I just, I find that

I enjoy Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Voyage

Home, and Undiscovered Country. And for me, because

Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are my

top two in that whole. I mean, I like Voyage

Home too, but those are my top two out of the

series. I find that it trumps TNG in this category.

Fair enough and Birdman you're voting for the

original series as well. Absolutely Just the

original cast has better chemistry though. My

favorite Star Trek movie is first contact One

movie doesn't make it the best Matt. What do

you think I? Don't feel like it's as cut -and

-dry for me as it is for everyone else like I

mean I love all of the the next generation movies

Don't know some of my earliest full -form memories

are about watching interaction on VHS in my parents

bedroom because I didn't have a VHS player when

I rented it Okay, which is not a sentence you

can say much anymore but like I Don't know wrath

of Khan is iconic Like I think still today if

you hear the word Khan everyone goes to that

movie even if they've never seen it just for

the quote That's true. Well the other thing too

not to not to cut in, but the Wrath of Khan,

that was deep. Plus, it brought back a villain

from the original series. Also, I find that the

undiscovered country had gravitas as well because

for one, it didn't have to do with whales, but

it had to do with saving a species so they could

stretch their faces. But the undiscovered country

stopped interstellar war between the Klan Empire

in the Federation True I Didn't see that's my

favorite though. Yeah, I think I need to rewatch

the old ones personally like all of them just

in order Which one? I've heard a lot of bad things

about Three. Three's hilarious. Come on, Doc

Brown as a Klingon. I actually don't mind that

one as much as, man, One -Five. I really don't

like Undiscovered Country either. But I think

of it this way. If you had to sit me down and

say, I'm not going to tell you which one, but

we're going to watch a Star Trek. film from the

classic series or a Star Trek next generation

film, I'm always going to pick the next generation

film. Or if you said you're going to have to

watch all of them, 1 through 6 or 1 through 4,

I'm going to pick the next generation films to

watch. 10 times out of 10. But if you were asking

me if we're comparing it to the series, I guess,

and this is the way I'm going to cast my vote,

the next generation films, I don't need them

because the series was so good. Whereas for me,

the original series movies are better than the

series most of the time like they add a lot more

to the series i know that's happening after the

fact but i mean too if you're looking at it as

an overall franchise they add so much more to

that than the next generation films do if that

makes any sense whatsoever Um, it does in my

head, so I'm going with that. No, I'm gonna have

to agree with you 100 % because I feel like the

next generation movies, at best, all they are

is a longer episode. It's like a deleted scene

on a film. It's like, oh, you love this series?

Here, watch this little bonus. Yeah, it's like,

like, there's no, you know, some of them don't

even have, like, the moral quandaries that were

so huge in TNG. Some of them just feel like more

action movie than... It's just, we didn't get

quite enough of that group, so let's see some

more of them. Whereas... to me you can't take

the original series movies out of the if you

take them out of the equation then not as many

people are still talking about the original series

in my opinion because some of those movies meant

a lot to a lot of people so so that's the reason

i'm going to cast my vote for the original series

even though i would always watch the next generation

films over them um i'm 100 with you for exactly

the same reasons Alright, so that is a clean

sweep for the original series when it comes to

movies and luckily we for the most part avoided

any Tyroids and debates on the reboot. So that's

a positive. That's a win going into the 17th

category here Which franchise is the most quotable?

Here's a fun one for you. So you got Khan the

scream there for the original series fascinating

for mr. Spock Mr. Spock's all over the place

live long and prospered. That's highly illogical

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the

few or the one He's dead Jim or I'm damn it Jim

or I'm a doctor not a blank Or Scotty we talked

about her him earlier with I'm giving her she's

got captain Next generation you have obviously

the different call signs from Picard engage or

make it so Resistance is futile from the Borg,

Shields Up, Red Alert, things like that, which

happen almost in every episode. To me, this one's

pretty clear cut, but I'd like to get your guys'

opinions when you look back at ones. Which one

gave you more quotes that stuck in your mind,

Birdman? Without a doubt, the original series,

because that cast sold it. And, you know, they're

like... I don't know, just it seems to me those

classic Star Trek quotes are literally... part

of a geek social consciousness, like we just

all know them. Once again, you can do the same

thing for TNG, but I don't know. I look at the

original series and I feel more towards them.

Now, obviously I love TNG with engage, make it

so obviously warf's thing and the Borg thing.

I don't know. I think the original series is

infinitely more, more kind of quotable and It

resonates more. I really think it does. I mean,

they just they mean more with the TNG, not so

much. I don't know if I necessarily see it like

that, but I definitely do see the original series

as being more quotable. I think it might go into

some stuff that we'll talk about in a little

bit with the writing and stuff, whereas there

was more engaging things for them to deal with

in the next generation where they didn't need

the quotes, maybe. I don't know. But but. The

original series just has quote after quote after

quote. Every character seems like they have a

call, you know, a quote most known for them,

whether it be the way Kirk talks and gives him

a bunch of quotes, Spock has quotes, you know,

Bones has quotes, Scotty has quotes, everybody

had quotes that they kind of went to. Where you

just didn't, that just wasn't part of the next

generation, whether it be by design or, you know,

just by happenstance. So that's why, for me,

it's a sure thing for the original series. Matt,

what do you think? It's funny because you know

like I think inarguably the old series is more

quoted in pop culture and things like that But

I think just in my personal group who in the

last two years we sat down and watched all of

Next Generation and the movies and Yeah, it was

actually before Nate moved back up, so you and

I weren't even talking at this moment So like

and I think to that group and I feel like the

number one most quoted thing wasn't even something

said in the show so much as an attitude from

one episode which was the one where Picard's

the negotiating the contract between the two

races and he was just a cocky bastard the whole

time and it's all like what are we gonna do last

time we had like 30 legislators like well this

time you've got me I'm the Picard bitches And

it was just like, I'm the Picard bitches is probably

the most quoted thing of that whole series. And

he didn't even say that. He just kind of threw

it out there. I think it's no, no question. No,

no, no. The original series. No question. All

right. So a roundabout way to vote for the original

series. I like it. Steve, what do you think?

Well, I think it's pretty cut and dry here for

me, but the original series just has a lot more.

quotable lines from every character because there

were... I would say the films had more than this

original series did itself. I mean, the original

series had a lot of iconic lines that people

were known for. You know, the beam me up Scotty,

the I'm giving her all she's got or, you know,

I'm a doctor, blah, blah, blah. But anyways,

but I think the films added extra stuff to it

as well. You know, the double dumb ass on you

or, you know, I've never trusted the Klingons

or whatever, the needs of the many. If you look

at TNG, they do have things that are specific

to each character as well. I would almost equate

that to being a Roddenberryism because the later

series don't really have the same type thing

as these two. And there are a few other ones

that are that are on there for TNG as well, but

I think Overall, I'd have to go with the original

series here Alright, so another clean sweep for

the original series. So quotes are one thing

But what if we break it down to the actual writing

on the show? Which series had better writers

had better stories had better plots had better

things that they tackled in general which which

series is superior in that respect. Matt, why

don't you start this one off? Well, I feel like

a lot of us are going to go into this category

thinking, well, this is just entirely one -sided.

But I think the one thing I want to say in the

defense of the original series is that though

almost every episode of Next Generation was great,

I can think of a couple of old series episodes

that just stand out. And I can't think of very

many episodes of the new series that stand out.

and that might be because the old series had

more bad in between the great ones but like I

can't think of an episode of Next Generation

that really hits as hard as like and let that

be your last battlefield with the Frank Gorshin

and the the red and black and the black or the

red and white or the fucking black and white

and white and black guys like it's like he's

black on the right side like I don't know like

I think the writing in that episode and there

are a couple other ones but I mean Some of them

are just really stand out, and I don't feel like

there's anything like that in The Next Generation,

though maybe on an episode to episode basis it

was probably better. Yeah, I can see what you're

saying with that. Birdman, what do you think

on the writing overall for the series? I think

there are some great... questions that the next

generation poses. I mean, one of my favorite

episodes being Measure of a Man, another one

being, oops, sorry, Inner Light, I think it is,

that season four episode. And there are some

damn good TNG episodes, but when I think of episodes

that changed attitudes in the decade they were

produced, I think of Star Trek, the classic series.

I really do. And honestly, it's weird because

I honestly would probably go the other way if

I had to go on Impulse. But the classic series,

it knocked it out of the park when it needed

to. my own idea for a show or my own idea for

a franchise or whatever it might be. And I got

to pick one of the writing teams, either the

writing team that worked on the original series

or the writing team that worked on The Next Generation.

I would not even hesitate in picking The Next

Generation's writing team. The topics they tackled,

the moral dilemmas that they went after, the

way that they put in the science fiction fantasy

world, things that you could directly correlate

with, you know, stuff that we were going through

in real world stuff, you know, just human issues

in general, to me far exceeded what what the

original series ever was able to do, whether

it be the different stuff they did with data

and the human element, whether it be, you know,

different things with honor and different stuff

like that with wharf, just the even more so what

they did with it was in the different aliens

or different species, different forms of life

that they came into contact with, and how they

used that to explore different parts of our own

psyche and of our own, you know, the human element.

To me, this one's a slam dunk for the next generation.

Steve, what do you think? I'm just gonna have

to go slam dunk next generation. It was just

overall, it's better plots, better story, better

writing, conversation, everything overall was

just... Just better in that category. What do

you think, Matt? Well, I don't know. Birdman's

got a really good point that the original series

changed hearts and minds. And I don't know if

that's because of the quality of the writing

or because back in the 60s, there were fewer

TV shows that it had to compare to. I want to

say they both had great writing. And though I

think Next Generation's probably my favorite

TV show of all time, I'm gonna give it to the

old one just for the hard -hitting episodes it

did have. Alright. Maybe I need to re -watch

some of the old series, but it's somewhat painful

sometimes. Alright. That would cause that category

to come out with our third tie of the show. And

that will leave us in our last two categories.

See what happens here in category 19. We're looking

at the critical acclaim of of the shows whether

it be awards nominations whether it be you know

just like the overall impact we're not talking

about the overall franchise and which franchise

you liked or which series you liked better but

just more of what the series was able to accomplish

from a critical acclaim standpoint i guess obviously

if you went straight by the data then that wouldn't

be a discussion but there might be a little bit

of room for debate within that if we're going

on straight on awards Maybe not fair because

the next generation was on for so much longer,

but the original series was nominated for 28

different major awards won five of them. The

next generation was nominated for 86 major awards

and 132 of them including the first ever syndicated

series to be nominated for outstanding drama

series. How do you break this down as far as

critical acclaim, what it meant to maybe pop

culture or to the franchise in general, without

necessarily giving your opinion on which series

you liked better? Bergman, which one's better

for acclaim? I would argue TNG, for sure, just

because it won... Some really important awards

especially for writing plus sound so Ultimately

critical claim I gotta go TNG for sure. I think

the other thing that the next generation might

have done Was more so legitimize Star Trek as

a franchise in general Maybe that's too strong

a wording but It did more to say that this isn't

just a science fiction thing. This isn't just

a reboot or a second try at the original series

to try to introduce this to new fans or whatever.

I mean it really took something and said this

is serious and this is something we're doing

well. We're doing and we're going to do a good

job with it. You know based on all these awards

whether it be this technical aspects the sound

aspects the writing or whatever like This is

a serious show that deals with serious issues,

and it wasn't just this You know popcorn science

fiction type series, so I'm gonna head that going

forward to Matt. What do you think? I'm not saying

that the original series was any of that. I'm

just saying like you know decades later Had a

certain impact with the next generation that

allowed deep space nine and and and the voyager

and etc to happen Which might not happen without

the success of the next generation Yeah, yeah,

I mean Star Trek was huge in the 90s at least

as far as I I've ever seen um I don't know like

part of me wants to just be bitter and be like

well Will Wheaton get two awards on next generation

so the next generation is disqualified but like

you think about the original series and had such

far -reaching social things all the way across

the world and I don't know you know maybe I'm

just not versed as well but I don't know that

happening with next generation you know in a

critical acclaim of the viewership rather than

just the award organizations like I don't think

it's as clear -cut to me as it is everyone else

Fair enough Steve. What do you think? I think

that Just for starters, I think the original

series got kind of shafted just because it was

nominated For one it was almost double the awards

Groups that Right, more awards groups exist now

than they did back then, so that's definitely

a good way of looking at it. Which I get, and

the fact that it was so kind of new and different

that it was either you liked it or you didn't,

whereas by the 80s when TNG came out in the early

90s, sci -fi was pretty much everywhere because

the 80s kind of blew it out of proportion and

so did the late 70s. If you were a sci -fi fan,

this was kind of right up your alley anyway And

not only that but you also had you know this

show because of how successful it was spawned

two other shows that are in the same Century

continuity right and I don't want to make it

sound like obviously without the original series

none of it happens I guess if it's not successful

and lasts for the three years that it does thank

God it lasted past that pilot but You know, so

I don't want to make it seem like that that Star

Trek Next Generation should get all the credit

or something because obviously the Star Trek

is the original series for a reason. And you're

right, there's a lot more award groups around

later on so that's possibly a factor as to why

the Next Generation had more awards and nominations

and stuff like that. Steve, where do you think

you're going with vote on this one though? Just

because it was just overall, there was more memorable...

Aspects to the series which is why it actually

won more nominations So I'd have to go with the

next generation Matt. What did you think after

all that? I'm gonna I'm just gonna say the original

one. I don't know if it's close. They both got

good arguments Fair enough, which leads us to

our final category Last chance to influence the

overall tally. This is just your own personal

opinion Which series is better Dodd? Ultimately,

TNG, because it did run longer. It had a chance

to tell more stories within it. Do you like TNG

better? I like TNG better, but I like the movies

for the original series better. That makes sense.

And I think I do appreciate what the original

series accomplished in terms of the social impact

that it needed to happen during the 60s, as Matt

said, hearts and minds. That's very important

in terms of the history of television. But in

terms of creating a new generation of people

opening up to science, I would say the next generation.

All right, Matt, what do you think? I casted

my vote like three ago when I said the next generation

is my favorite TV show of all time, and I'm not

changing that opinion. I have a lot of love for

a lot of 60 shows including the old Star Trek,

but the next generation Not only did I grow up

on it when we rewatched it like I mentioned like

two years ago When we got to like season 7 and

I had that realization that this is going to

end like I almost wanted to cry I was like this

is so good and I don't ever want it to end ever

That's true Steve, what do you think? Actually,

I'm gonna side with I'm gonna have to side with

Mike completely on this one. There's there's

no There's no no way I could argue anything different

All right, so that is three votes for the next

generation if I'm hearing everybody, right And

I will echo that I've never made a list, I guess,

of what would be my favorite TV show of all time.

I have a feeling that Next Generation would be

in my top three, maybe edged out by MacGyver.

But that's just me. Is that a joke? No, no. MacGyver

is my number one favorite series of all time.

Interesting. But Next Generation would be very

probably close second or close third. I'd have

to really look at a whole list of every TV series

ever to figure that out. But I love Next Generation.

I've probably seen every episode. I don't know

six seven eight times I remember recording them

on VHS tapes in my basement like in middle school

or whatever just and I was gonna try to record

everyone so I could rewatch them again and again

because it was before you know DVDs and all that

kind of stuff were really popular etc but it

just is a great series to watch and like you

said I watched that and I don't want it to end

I want to just keep going and keep seeing more

of these characters because I love all the characters

and I love the topics they cover so I will make

this again for the next generation um which ends

that category and ends the show so we're going

to take a quick time out and we'll be right back

with the final verdict returning for its second

year is grand con gaming and comics convention

on september 19 through the 21st at the crown

plaza hotel and grand rapids michigan This year

be prepared for more With a guest list that easily

doubles that of last year's with artists such

as Mark McKenna or game publishers like Jeff

Grubb. It's easy to want to come check them out

There will be a silent charity auction tons of

panels for gaming and comics fans and the list

goes on and on Registration is open for more

information visit the website grand -con .com

Alright, thanks for sticking with us. The votes

have all been tallied and unlike episode 12,

we do not have to worry. There is no tie here,

so there will be a clear -cut winner between

Trek the Original Series and Trek the Next Generation.

If you go total votes, it's 47 to 29. If you

go categories, It's 11 to 5. So it's not even

close. We were right in the initial thought process

that we thought it might be a little bit of a

slam dunk. The next generation takes this one

hands down. So 11 to 5. If we went by an individual

basis, Birdman, you voted next generation 10

to 9. Matt, you voted next generation 11 to 8.

Steve, you voted next generation 12 to 7. And

apparently I'm the most biased one on the group

because I voted Next Generation 14 to 5. So all

four of us had Next Generation winning this matchup.

So we can put this argument to rest. Apparently

the Next Generation is the better Star Trek series.

Final thoughts, Birdman? I was in the cod, bitches!

Fair enough. Final thoughts, Steve? I just...

I I'm kind of not surprised but um But yeah,

that's that's it's it's undeniably the better

series Fair enough Matt. What do you think final

thoughts? Um, I think the way it should have

Yeah, yeah, I think I think I would have been

happier if it was a little bit closer But I think

if it had tied like pirates and ninjas, I'd have

been a little upset That said, like, if I had

to be on a ship with all of the people, I would

much rather be on the original guys, because

I feel like they would be a more fun ship to

be on. But, yeah, no, like... Minus Thaladec.

Minus the technology differences. The people

were just so much fun. Great characters. I don't

know. I think it would be fun to sit at that

poker table with number one and Worf and Geordi.

Yeah, if you like losing a lot of money. I'll

just create some more at Thaladec and be rich

in there. Alright, anybody else? Any final thoughts?

That we haven't got out there besides the big

hard bitches Alright, I would like to thank Birdman

Steve and Matt for joining me today in the war

zone and of course Thanks to everybody else for

listening several ways to get in contact with

us early feedback for the show visit the website

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your Twitter? SCP 21 Birdman it is at Birdman

dot hashtag Picard bitches Birdman anything else

that you'd like to pimp out as far as things

that people should be going to find you at Well,

you can always find me at this week in geek net

you can occasionally hear me on Toronto radio

Usually on news talk 1010 depending on who's

producing that day and I'm always around on television

So keep watching always causing havoc on Twitter.

So follow him there See what all the stuff he

made fun of me about I'm just kidding. Uh -huh.

Matt. What's your Twitter? I'm at Fridley sent

And I have one podcast that's not on the GeekCastRadio

network, which is RhapsodyCast. We're on YouTube,

Potamatic, iTunes. You can find us. Absolutely.

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Alright, so we hope you enjoyed this episode

of GCR and Wars. Hopefully you'll join us next

time when we once again take two geek topics

and pit them against each other in an epic battle

to the death. For now, live long and prosper,

and engage.