Reviewing Discovery S3, Episodes 10-13

Welcome aboard the USS Future Imperfect brought

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.net. I am your lieutenant commander, though

I really should promote myself at some point.

I am Mike the Birdman, and I'm not alone as I

trek through the whatever the hell we're calling

plot device nebula this week. I'm joined by my

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aboard the Starship. I'm joined in the great

state of Colorado by Steve Megatron Phillips

and of course, the wilds of Michigan and the

true scientist among us. Aaron Polly, how's it

going? My intrepid co -host from ThisWeekendGeek

.net, captain of the Garbage Scout. Let's just

get this done. I thought this would be over so

bad. The torture, the torture. I'm one of the

stupid WALL -E, Herbie the Robot bullshit things

that are in the show. They literally have Roger

Rabbit style cartoon characters repairing the

ship now. So if you can't guess what we're going

to be talking about, we are talking about the

finale and the last couple of episodes of Star

Trek Discovery Season 3, which is streaming across

CBS All Access and various platforms around the

world. And well, it's over for now. I guess I'm

going to get this. because you're going to get

it for review. I'm going to get the Blu -ray

to check out and I'll have to give it a second

watch. And I don't think my opinion on the programming

will change. But what I'm most interested in

is if they produced any behind the scenes stuff,

I want to compare what the production was like

for seasons one, two and three, because there

is clearly a field of this being so discombobulated.

I want to see how they spin the behind the scenes

productions on this, because something I don't

know. I've never seen. Like there's jumping the

shark and the show was already not a favorite

amongst us and but there is a point now where

It almost feels like 12 different shows that

each episode is made by it feels like the show

of the season was produced by like some Google

AI They made it watch like 300 hours or 500 hours

or you know, 20 ,000 television hours of programming,

and then said, rate a season. You know, I actually...

It's funny because... Go ahead. Go ahead, Mike.

Oh, I was going to say, like, we all started

off with the first couple episodes of season

three being fairly, dare I say, optimistic, because

it felt like, okay, it's new, it's different,

kind of feels like Stargate and something else.

Andromeda. Andromeda, but we're like, OK, you

have our attention. What are you going to do

with it? And then it was like a balloon with

the air let out of it going right after episode

three, episode four. It was like they blew. They

were there on a ship and they're going the right

way. And then they blew a hole in the bottom

of the ship and then sank almost immediately.

Was that the junkyard episode? Junkyard episode.

I think it was either it was for. Was it three

or four the first episode was was where we didn't

was Burnham pretending to be drunk, which we

were pissed at but overall it ended with the

idea of okay. Well, they're gonna rebuild the

Federation second episode was The first episode

I think of the entire series where it didn't

focus on Burnham and that one was actually okay

Yeah, that was the third episode I remember being

the one I liked the most. I just don't remember

what it was about. The one I liked the most this

season was the Trill episode because I thought

that character was genuinely interesting. And

then they kind of pissed her away. CGI was terrible

with it. But other than that, Episode three is

people of Earth where they go back to Earth and

nothing makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, that's the one

that's the one that's the one where they have

earth is unable to detect anything at Saturn

Because you know, they've lost all their technology

back to like the 16th century Even though they

have a giant space shield for the planet and

faster than light ships for wasn't really like

episode four is the true one I think Honestly,

the best episode of the season was the second

one where they didn't have Burnham in it at all.

Yeah, it was still bad. But I mean, yeah, it

was better. It was better than any of the other

episodes. Well, I was I was just glad to see

like Saru doing something and then everybody

else had something somewhat constructive. And

you thought you were going to get something decent

with the season, even though it took left field

and you had no idea that it was going to be that

bad. George Oh, from that episode entirely, then

it would have been fine. It would have been like

a standard Star Trek episode almost, just having

them deal with some problem that they didn't

know how they were going to get out of. It would

have been a TNG or Stargate C episode, which

would have meant that it's still the best episode

of the show. Then, just as a recap, episode five

was Die Trying, which is... That's the... Where

they go to the... Son of Tal? Yeah. headquarters

and again I think is that the one that where

they introduced uh Vance yeah and David Cronenberg's

character which which they both of them are great

both of the characters are great they're just

in the wrong show yeah and you know here's the

thing guys we we all think that like David Cronenberg

is amazing in the show what's his character's

name and what's his motivation no David Cronenberg

doing Cronenberg doing his best impression of

himself Yeah, and that's the thing. We don't

know a thing about this character at all. We

know nothing about him. And you never find out.

When he does interviews or when he would film

his movies in the late 80s, early 90s, when he

went away from just being pure body horror and

did some more psychological weird stuff like

Naked Lunch and M. Butterfly and all that. When

he would do interviews talking about the scripts

and how difficult it was to adapt things and

how cerebral some of the films had become that

he was making. Like, I realize, I'm like, wait,

he's just, he's not even acting. That's just

who he is when he talks to people. So they cast

him, they cast a director and he's the best actor

in the episode. Yeah. That tells you something.

Because something tells me he wasn't listening

to the direction of the director and he just

did what he would have done if he was filming

somebody. Can you imagine this rookie director

or whoever they are directing David Cronenberg?

You don't tell David Cronenberg what to do. You'd

let him does what he wants to do. Three directors

in Canadian history in the States. I mean, there's

a lot more competition, but if you're going to

talk in the genre film category, he's in the

top 10 most influential horror and sci -fi directors

of the last 50 years. So he knows what he's doing.

He's he's a film school grad all this sort of

stuff I'm trying to look up the the director

of the episode And like they don't even have

like there's not even a link to IMDB for them.

They're not even like blue -linked Wow, that's

an encouraging sign With David Cronenberg in

the one of the comparisons I made right at the

end of the season is that it feels like these

are there are 13 really short TV movies produced

by Roger Corman, where he's giving a random no

name director slash writer a chance to do something.

And the timetable is you have to write the script

in two days. It needs to be produced in two days.

Here go. That's the kind of quality that we're

going with. The director here, she's a television

director that is known for directing single episodes.

She's never really called back to direct more

than one. What has she done? CSI Cyber, Graceland,

Limitless, Person of Interest, Elementary, like

broadcast TV, like cheapy crappy shows. She's

doing procedural type stuff. Yeah, Titans SWAT.

13 episodes of Hawaii Five -O, one of the worst

cop shows on TV. The newer one. Magnum P .I.

and MacGyver remakes. The only thing she has

done in genre that's not a cop procedural was

she did the short track for Runaway. Which one

was that one? That's the one where the girl ends

up being the princess or queen in the second

season of Discovery. Really? Yeah, and they figure

out she says she figures out how to recrystallize

Dilithium like when Scottie says that's impossible

like 30 years later, and he has to figure out

a way of doing it of the Clarice Silence of the

Lambs TV show that premieres in a couple weeks

That's it this they got this person to direct

one of the most famous directors in the world

Something tells me that that episode, every scene

that he was in, he probably had control. I would

assume so for sure. I would assume so because

they were actually halfway decent. It seems that

he was in, the camera wasn't constantly shaking

and spinning. Now there's something that I noticed

and I'm going to jump ahead because for me, for

you guys, this is weeks in the past. For me,

this is but mere hours. I'm watching the final

fight scene between green between the Jolly Green

Giant and the Michael Burnham show. And they're

fighting inside discovery. Yeah. And for some

reason, did did that look like the inside of

a Resident Evil movie to anybody else? Or was

that just me with them fighting? OK, I'm not

nuts. Yeah, it looked like the show. And there

was there was absolutely zero tension in that.

because you know that like oh like Burnham gets

tossed into this this panel for some reason that's

there of programmable matter for no reason and

the Orion woman thinks that she's dead it's programmable

matter it would have safeguards against like

people being in there and the fact that the camera

lingers on it for so long you know Burnham's

still alive there's no tension like oh although

one funny bit of that scene Aaron One funny bit

of that scene is when she pukes Lego. Yeah, a

good laugh at that. Why did you breathe in Lego,

you idiot? Like, yeah, I mean, you know, did

you notice in that last episode? Also is that

every major scene starts with the camera either

sideways or upside down and then it rotates into

right side up Dutch tilt. Oh God, I just there

was much about the line of continuity over and

over and over again with it that it it removes

you from any semblance of immersion. I actually

fast forwarded that section because it bored

the crap out of me. So I I moved on to a point

where you know, Burnham blows away the Orion

lady, and then they're like, hey, we're all saved.

She was one of the worst parts of this season.

I hated that actress and that character. Like,

I hated the whole aspect of the Orion syndicate

thing. You know, the makeup looked like something

you would have seen out of Lex. It looks so cheap.

Like, I've seen better costuming at DragonCon.

I thought the actress was OK. I can't say she

was good, but I can't really say she was bad.

She was probably just working as best as she

could with really shitty writing and directing.

But honestly, there was no like she's she the

character herself is. a one dimensional mustache

twirling villain that there's there's really

no motivation there. And then like this negotiation

with Admiral Vance that happens at the you know

near the end of the the series here. There's

absolutely like all of a sudden she just seemingly

turns a corner and becomes a good person like

oh yeah I know we'll give up slavery completely

even though in 10 years. Well yeah it's exactly

what they'll do it because Burnham is is the

second coming of Christ and will change everybody's

mind. Yeah, but but then then it's clear that

remember that there's like the lie detector hologram

in there that is also agreeing that she's telling

the complete truth, but she's also completely

inept at the negotiations and decides, oh, you

know what? I don't really want this to happen

anyway and continues the attack later. Everything

about that last episode is utter utter shit even

down to like the special effects like during

that negotiation did you guys notice that even

the fx people don't give a shit enough to show

like the treaty that comes up the treaty that

comes up is supposed to be like the emerald chain

with the federation but they don't use the federation

logo they put a starfleet logo on it no one gives

a shit in this show That is one of the 22 producers

saying, we've never shown the Federation logo.

Nobody watching this is going to know what that

looks like. Because nobody watching our show

ever watched it before. No, they don't want,

they don't want anybody that was a fan before

they came in to like the show. They want - They

showed it in the beginning of the season. Well,

they don't remember that. No, they don't remember

that. They don't think anybody else will. God,

I hate this show. But you fast forwarded through

one of the most amazing parts of this episode.

If you fast forward through the fight scene of

the giant turbo lift cavern that is inside Discovery,

there's somebody online that I actually with

math with like angles and they knew determining

based on people's height. in each of these shots,

they could figure out like the focal length of

the camera and therefore how large this cavern

was. And it would actually it actually would

have difficulty fitting inside of Earth Dock.

So kilometers and kilometers and kilometers across

and tens of kilometers long. Yeah, because like

I thought discovery is like a science vessel.

It's supposed to be fairly small, right? Well,

it's not even that, man. Well, it depends. This

is what happens when you have entire schools

that pump out CGI grads over and over and over

again, the proliferation of how easy it is to

hire people now. It used to be when TV was being

made, you had about six to 10 effects houses

you could use pretty much in the world. And they

handled all of your special effects. And now

you've got hundreds of these small companies

of different quality. You don't necessarily have

a, the crazy thing to me is when you find some

of these companies that have all these CGI farms

and they're given like, you know, loose descriptions

of what to do and they render it. And there is

a difference between a CGI artist and somebody

who is a classically trained, like fine arts

major that would normally work on a show. to

give proper scale proportions and realistic,

basically tell people how to translate 3D space

into art. Because you have talented people that

work at all these companies making things. But

the bar of entry now is lower. So you get lower

quality productions than only the really top

tier, I guess like LucasArts, ILM, Weta, and

a couple of the studios still on the West Coast

that are decent, but they're basically being

held up doing all the superhero movies. And every

TV show is now left with garbage, for the most

part, unless they can book time with them. Because

it's mind -boggling how much they mess up scale.

Mm -hmm in this in this show in particular, but

it happens and not just this isn't the only offender

It happens in a lot of other shows Part of it

is I think it's because the effects have gotten

so cheap it used to be the effects were so expensive

and time -consuming that you kind of had to Get

it right or the studio wouldn't pay for it They

would say that that's not up to snuff This image

that you just dropped in there is just insane.

There's no way that that's bigger than the Enterprise

D. So in order to fit that giant turbo lift cavern,

you actually have to expand Discovery out. Now,

canonly, they've already said that, like, Discovery's

about 745, 750 meters long, which is far larger

than a galaxy class starship. But in order to

fit that, Turbolift cavern and you actually have

to expand Discovery out even further to almost

Well more than two and a half kilometers long

in order to fit it in and you know what it is

It's it's the the magic runway in fast and the

furious was it six or seven? Where where they're

chasing a plane down for what appears to be 25

minutes while it races at full speed down the

runway And somebody put uh put the runway to

scale And it crossed half of Europe. So, you

know, the other serious logic. But the other

part of it is in that same scene we see inside

the turbo lift, we see the decks of discovery.

We actually see how many decks discovery has.

And it's actually reasonable size when you just

look at the decks. It's comparable to it's a

little smaller than a constitution class. So,

you know, I think it's. 17, 18 decks tall. And

Michael Burnham, when she jumps out into the

turbo lift shaft shaft and then free falls, you

can time it. And it's four and a half seconds.

And it comes out to be like ninety nine point

five meters, which is actually one and a half

Constitution classes high. So she she it's it's

really, really dumb. And it seems like that's

nitpicking, guys. And it is the thing is, is

that it breaks immersion. When you're when you're

watching a show, especially one that is a semi

hard sci fi, let's say that is Star Trek. When

you have something that is so blatantly outside

of reality where it's just magic. This is magic.

There's no way it can fit in to the ship, let

alone the universe. How can you? I always go

back to but even Stargate in the silly episodes

Tried to root itself in some sort of logical

explanation. I mean at this point now, I'm doing

a rewatch of that show there's an episode where

Earth gets its first interstellar spaceship and

MacGyver is upset because they wouldn't let him

name it the Enterprise and I'm thinking They

should have just let him name it the Enterprise

and just renamed Stargate into Star Trek at that

point because that was circa early 2000s, right

around the time that the Enterprise TV show was

dying. And maybe we could have had Stargate just

become Star Trek. Star Trek with Richard D. Anderson

would have been awesome. There's an episode where

he's captured when they go back in time to 1969.

Spoiler Mike, they go back in time. And he's

captured by the military and they think he's

a Russian spy because he's got like futuristic

tech. And they ask him what his name is, and

he says his name is James T. Kirk. And then when

they grill him, he's like, no, no, no, it's Luke

Skywalker. So like, at that point, as silly as

that is, that makes more sense than what we're

seeing here. And it's, it's not just like the

weird special effects, because I mean, all throughout

the season, and especially in the last parts

of it, there's lots of really poor special effects.

Like when they're in the mirror universe, they

go to Rysa. Risa, whenever we visit, by the way.

Yeah, well, that's that's a different thing.

I actually ran all the numbers on that. I can

talk about that. But Risa has no rings and two

moons every other time we've seen Risa. But here

in Discovery, it has rings and no moons. Like,

there's no fact checking on this. Set a course

for Risa warp nine and warp nine in the old scale

is seven hundred and twenty nine. times the speed

of light. And they are actually at Epsilon Indy,

as they said at the beginning of the episode,

and Epsilon Indy to Epsilon SETI, which is where

RISA is, is eighty four point six four light

years. This is my math. So that means if they

could sustain warp nine, which is not very likely

at that time, let's put it that way when when

enterprise, the more advanced ship. can barely

sustain warp eight for a couple hours. They would

have to travel for 42 days, nine hours, four

minutes and 23 .7 seconds if they were able to

hold that speed. But they're to rise in less

than three seconds. Well, don't forget, we're

working now on spaceballs logic. They just went

ludicrous speed. They've got plaid. Exactly.

Like we're not working with people that care.

About logic, but but in here's here's the comparison

in this same very show in Star Trek Discovery

season 1 They give a very specific distance and

I think it's in episode 3 or 4 they give a very

specific distance that they are away from the

I think it's is it USS Glenn? And they say, OK,

well, we're going to be in the shuttle and we're

going to go to warp one. And you can literally

sit with a stopwatch and click off because you

know what warp one is. Warp one is the speed

of light. And it takes exactly the amount of

time that you would think it would like down

to the 10th of a second. They come out of warp.

That's exactly the distance they would have traveled.

That's also season one when they thought they

were making a real show. and not a tax write

-off. Well, and that was also, I think, some

of the original concepts and things from Brian

Fuller before he jumped ship because of his stupidity.

The first four episodes of the show were the

ones he worked on. And you can tell somebody

cared. Somebody cared. No one cared. Oh, Brian

Fuller cared. And they didn't, so he left. Some

details have come out about his non -disclosure.

he's not allowed to talk about what was cancelled

and all all of the apparent uh heeded arguments

he had with the production company heeded heeded

arguments um and like he knew they were flushing

the show down the tubes so to the point where

i don't believe he's worked with um cbs or paramount

sins wow i mean i don't blame them yeah if this

is what's being produced for Star Trek and it's

just shitting all over. All over the franchise.

Well, and he used to write for it too. So, I

mean, he obviously cared. Now to look at discovery

of season three as a whole, because we really

haven't talked about the episodes per se. We've

talked about bits and pieces of them. How do

I break this down? Looking at the overall. narrative

arc of the season, finding out why the burn happened,

why the federation fell apart, why the galaxies

in such disarray as it may be. What worked, what

failed, why did it fail? Why did parts succeed

discussed? I, I have very, very, um, crass descriptions

as to why the show failed, but I won't discuss

them because just out of being polite. But the

show, this season of the show, taking out of

account all of the behind the scenes drama, the

whole idea that this season was made to fulfill

contractual obligations and that the only reason

it even got renewed now, because they thought

it was canceled. That's why the show ended up

getting even worse because they gave up on any

quality control they even had left. Taking out

of the pandemic. take that out of it, take out

the bad acting, and take out all of this stuff.

The show fails because it relies on a formula

that they've been using since Lost with this

production company, which is build a mystery

in the first episode, barely, barely, barely

reveal anything, and then rush to the conclusion

in the last 30 minutes. And then repeat the exact

same cycle for every single season. If you're

going to have a show with an overarching story,

design it to run multiple seasons, especially

when you only have, you know, 13 to 14 episodes

a season. Babylon five had 110 episode arc written

before the show came out. They didn't know if

they were going to get there. So the idea was

here's our B story or that's ultimately going

to become the A story. And we're gonna work towards

that. We're still gonna have, we have a series

arc, then we have our season arc, and then we

have our individual episodes, like each episode

can be watched on its own, without the need for,

unless there's like a specific two -parter, without

the need to have to watch in a specific order.

But if you watch a whole season in order, you

get a story and a conclusion, or a cliffhanger

for the next season. And then, you end up with

this whole picture, this whole grand story if

you watch all five seasons. That was sort of

how serialized television that wasn't like a

soap opera was designed and envisioned in the

late 80s is when he sort of started seeing that

pop up with Wiseguy. And some of the other syndicated

TV shows started doing that when they were getting

these like 100 episode orders back in the day

or or multiple season 22 episode orders. And

then really started around 90, 91 with the Highlander

TV show and all the productions that were being

made for dirt cheap in Vancouver for whatever,

you know, station or syndication that you wanted.

And that was the formula. Everything followed

for about 10 to 15 years. And then Lost destroyed

all that because they, they thought they could

hotshot it. These shows are hotshotted in that

We're going to sell you on a mysterious hook

in the first episode and then have no idea how

we're going to conclude it. Each of these shows

and each of these seasons are presented as if

they're trying to hook the advertisers to say,

look, the audience is going to get hooked by

this crazy twist or this or this mysterious MacGuffin.

And then they don't deliver because they write

themselves into a corner. It's the burn. And

what was the burn? Oh, a emotionally stunted

developmentally disabled kid cried and the world

burned. It was the I honestly when I when I watched

the episode and that was the reason I assumed

that the burn was going to be for a stupid reason.

I assumed that it was going to not make sense.

This exceeded my expectations to the point of

I was laughing. Yeah, same here. What was supposedly

an emotional scene like, oh my God, this kid,

his mother died. I was laughing at how ridiculous

that was. I thought would be like based on the

logic they built in their own universe, not saying

it's logical, but I was under the assumption

because everything has to do with Burnham. It

has to. everything has to revolve around her.

I thought it was going to be the burn was created.

They were going to find something stupid like

when she was flown forward in time that and she

didn't even realize that like a piece of her

space suit broke off into another time and it

caused some sort of some sort of disastrous ripple

effect. That would have made more sense with

with all of us, you know. angry and bickering

about it out of the way. Let's sort of just finish

off, uh, these last, was it four episodes we

were supposed to be talking about? I think, cause

we did. Yeah. Cause yeah, the question that I'd

pose to the floor is what failed the season?

I think we've covered that pretty adequately.

What succeeded and then I would argue parts of

this season worked parts. Ideas and concepts

that weren't realized. I think for me, because

I have a slightly different viewpoint on that.

I'm not as entrenched as you guys seem to be

with it. And maybe that gives me a little bit

more joyful optimism. You have some sort of blind

crush on Tilly. That's the only reason you like

the show. No, actually my favorite character.

I like her a lot. My favorite character is actually

Stanitz. I can't stand him. And I also, I'm starting

to like, uh, the trill lady. I can't remember

her name. Nadira. Is it? Um, I really liked those

three characters. I don't know the character's

names. I don't, I barely even remember the name.

Yeah. And that's my problem with this season

is there are individual character moments, but

you're not given enough for it to shine. When

we, when you took Michael Burnham out of the

equation for episode two, that's when this show

was the strongest. When you got moments with

Michelle Yeoh as Captain George Yeoh and, and

Sonequa Green, occasionally you got some really

good chemistry there, but it was never consistent.

Michelle Yeoh belongs on a show that's not Star

Trek. She belongs on like a space pirate show.

Like and that's the thing too. I wonder how they're

gonna handle the section 31 show Oh, it did get

canned? It was supposed to enter production and

it's now on hold Because of COVID or no because

there's the new head of Paramount hates it. Oh,

okay. Well, I guess I Don't want to watch a show

about villains No, because the whole, the whole

has does it was more of a 24 type show. That

would be okay. But if you gave me spy Star Trek,

I'd be okay with that, but I don't want brutality

from, you know, mention like if it's going to

be a time travel show, protecting whatever, you

know what? We've already had that show and it

was called seven days in the late nineties. where

every episode was traveling back in time up to

seven days to correct issues or errors, or quantum

leap. We've had those shows. We don't need one

where everybody's a bad person. Yeah, I mean,

it's one thing to watch her be cool and badass,

but the thing is, Giorgio works in small spits

and spurts. I don't think a full hour dedicated

to her would necessarily flow. Now her two episodes

at the end of the season where she enters the

guardian of forever. Cause okay, we brought that

back for some reason. We forgot Q exists. Yeah,

exactly. Although I thought it was kind of neat

how they brought back the guardian, but I'm thinking

This should have been John Delancey, but OK,

sure, whatever. The Guardian talks like it's

part of the queue. Yeah, I didn't think that

the Guardian worked at all. I thought it was

it was a really bad idea. It should have been

a queue. They try to explain why the Guardian

is some all of a sudden already on the other

side of the galaxy that it left because of the

temporal Cold War. because they were asking him

to do things. And the problem is, is that the

Guardian only worked a very specific way and

he could not change the way he sent people through

time. So he was incredibly inaccurate at sending

people back in time. You might as well just use

a warp capable Starship to actually time travel

and it's more accurate. So there's no reason

to use the Guardian of Forever except maybe as

a research thing. But definitely not by the time

the temporal Cold War is being fought. So they

basically just wanted to use it for hey, here's

a retro callback, right? Yeah, that's basically

the only reason to have it there. And then then

you're casting a person to play the Guardian.

Okay. Yeah, fine. The Guardian over however many

millennia that it existed before Kirk ever found

it. It never developed a personality. It was

always this computer. But then in the 900 years

since It's now Carl that looks different as a

ring. Like, it's not even the same ring. Not

to mention it behaves the way he's behaving with

the newspaper and all. It's behaving like that

episode of Voyager where Janeway went into the

continuum. Mm hmm. Like that's very Dr. Who ish.

You know what I mean? Like it was just like that

episode where we finally got to see like our

how our brains would interpret the continuum.

Yeah. And that's basically what I saw there.

And then I'm like, oh, so it's one of the cues.

Oh, it's not. Oh, I know why they're doing this.

It's because it's the only episode of the show,

uh, of the original show that Kurtzman remembers.

Um, and it like shit all over the memory of that

show. And that episode, that episode still makes

me cry. The guardian of forever, man, city on

the edge of forever is such a good episode. I

think. I think I liked that only because I've

never experienced that episode and I've only

known of the history and maybe discovery fooled

me in that regard and I'm fully willing to own

that. Um, like I said, the problem I found with

this season and, but it's also a strength in

my opinion is there were some moments where there

were some good character things, but you were

never given enough to hold onto. You're never

getting enough to care. And Alex has pointed

this out and you guys have all pointed this out.

You don't know the character's names enough.

I didn't know Detmer's name until this season.

We didn't understand she had PTSD fully until

this season. And I would argue that the way they

wrote her, she doesn't. Yeah, no, she's also

happy. She never has had PTSD. What she comes

across as is just being an asshole. There's another

character. This happens in the last episode of

the season where it's this engine I think she's

up she's a part of the bridge crew and she brings

a bomb into the turbo shaft or the warp course

and she's rescued by Wally and you're supposed

to care and I know it's supposed to be a touching

moment because she's like please don't let me

die and blah blah blah I must help you well no

that's the voice of the sphere okay so okay fine

The show is called Roger Rabbit. It's a fucking

Roger Rabbit cartoon now. Yeah, and note that

she walked into the detached nacelle with a chemical

explosive to use against a handheld chemical

explosive to use against a superconducting superconductor.

that generally uses enough energy constantly

to put, like, to compare that little bomb as,

like, dropping a match onto the sun. It would

do nothing. And she walked into the detached

nacelle. And then they show the explosion on

the nacelle. Like, how did she walk there? It's

fucking detached. And by the way, they say they

say how those those nacelles stay attached, even

though they're detached. Magnets. Yeah, no, even

I know that. How do they work? I mean, I mean,

that's something that I felt was a real, as Alex

pointed out, and I don't think he's wrong on

this. The show wants to tell you how to feel.

And I think that's a problem very much so with

the show is because you don't develop the relationships

and the connections with these characters. Naturally.

Sure. I've seen her on the bridge. Sure. She

does pushy button things on the, on the Jarvis

artificial intelligence screens or whatever.

I don't know her name. I don't care. And I know

it's sad when somebody's supposed to make a noble

sacrifice, but it doesn't mean anything if there's

no name to it. And this is a care. This is a

show that's supposed to be an ensemble cast,

but it's almost always the Michael Burnham show.

And again, Why is she invincible and having like

plot armor after plot armor? You can't hit her.

Like the most she's taken is she took a knife

to the leg and somehow she managed to win a fight

with so clearly her physical. And in the last

couple of episodes, her mannerisms and expressions

and body language. It's like she gave up on trying

to be the stoic character with the pent up energy.

And she even gets like, there's parts of this

where it feels like I'm watching a skit comedy

show from the early nineties, like in living

color or mad TV, where they're pretending to

be Starfleet officers. Like she she's almost

like over exaggerating movements. Or like when

she's like running, it's like extending her arms

farther than a human would to run to make it

look like like how. public access TV would do

for the, for the effects and just like turning

her head. There's a couple of times I was waiting

for her to go, Oh hell no. In the way she was

behaving and talking. It was like they all threw

up their hands in the last three episodes and

gave up trying for any only moment for her that

really stood out to me this season as being somewhat.

Connective to what I think she wanted to accomplish

is when the guardian Giorgio and her are standing

on the planet and the guardian says, well, you

have to walk through that door. You can go whenever

you want. And Giorgio is saying her goodbyes

to her and something along the lines of you showed

me a different way. No, you know, why should

we care? She's a murderous genocidal freak who

is not the captain from the first episode of

season one. This is what I don't get is why does

everybody on the show think that they're the

same person? She's clearly not. She treats everyone

like shit. This is literally like could you imagine

if they killed in season two or three Captain

Kirk and he was replaced with the evil eyeliner

Kirk and everybody was okay with it? I think...

yeah that was the only scene that was the only

scene though where i think there was something

genuine where i think they wanted to connect

no but it's emotionally manipulative it's still

no it's diluted because and and delusional like

she she nobody on this crew they've been together

what like in in time of the show what like four

or five months maybe a bit longer maybe a year

but but regardless They've not known her to be

anything but evil antagonistic, willing to murder

anybody, has murdered anybody, eaten the people.

Yep, she's eaten Calpian. Yes, eaten the people

and they all cry when she's going to die. It's

like they have this collective delusion that

they all believe it's their captain. It's like

they forget the internal logic. the writers don't

remember where the character has come from. And

I think that's very evident as we've all discussed

here. There's no continuity or there's no story

my thought on that scene, speaking purely from

an acting standpoint, that's the only point where

I kind of felt something because there's something,

uh, Burnham says to her, she's like, all my feelings

for you are real. I'm thinking, okay, sure. That's

a good scene. But as we discussed, there's problems

with that scene because of the internal logic.

But, um, another thing I liked this season, cause

I, I'm, I'm going to try and play devil's advocate

here as much as I can is. Like I said, I saw

moments where things could have been okay. And

we all agreed. That the first couple episodes

showed not promise potential, but it obviously

fell very, very, very short of that. So I guess

in conclusion, the show started out of the gate,

had a couple of good strides, and then promptly

fell face first and tumbled hard. They decided

to run a marathon and they were running like

a 3000 meter marathon. They got about 200 meters.

And then diarrhea themselves and fell down a

ditch and then crows pecked out their eyes. Now

here's my question to the group and then we'll

close this out. How do you course correct from

this because they're stuck in the future. They're

not going to go back as far as I can tell. And

even it like, what do you do from here? I see.

Yeah, nothing. You've had three chances, and

each season is a course correction from each

other. After the first season, they course corrected.

After the second season, they course corrected

again. No one's going to buy another course correction.

Or, well, I don't know. At this point, there's

enough people out there that absolutely love

the show that maybe they could turn it into a

freaking comedy like WandaVision, and it would

completely work for those people. I don't think

you can fix the show. Stop it. Do not do any

more. Get real writers that actually care. Stop

interfering with them from the production standpoint

and actually let science fiction function. Like,

it's not fucking hard. You just get people that

care. Like, I don't know. I've said before. Set,

you know, just pay for my root here here This

doesn't make sense based on what we know about

Star Trek hire the goddamn Akutas again and and

and Make sure that they not fix the show as it

is now There's too much just you know a full

too dark and unappealing they need to they need

to do that need to cinematographer and the colorist

everything is oversaturated it's it's like I'm

it's everything is so stark and bright and it

hurts the eyes And they also need to do one other

thing, and that is slow down. You don't have

to have constant motion. Camera doesn't have

to be moved. There's not a single moment where

the camera doesn't move and you don't have to

have MTV 20 cuts per second. You can let a scene

linger for emotional resonance. You know, maybe

we would see enemies and bad guys as a threat

if they were on screen long enough to seem menacing

without having like epileptic seizures jumping

around and having the camera constantly panning

in circles using as if somebody's using a PlayStation

controller and just has their finger down on

the great analog stick and it's constantly moving

or flipping around and it's like hey cool look

what we can do we can flip and tear and and it's

like they it's like baby's first editing suite

and they've just gone totally over the top on

that. And it's not even like style over substance.

It's not even stylish enough as it is. It's not

a good looking show. I think there have been

shows that are dark looking. Battlestar Galactica,

if you're gonna do that dark sort of show where

everything is sort of dimly lit, maybe actually

film it on film and have film grain involved.

Game of Thrones did quite well with it and then

some of those episodes were so dark They were

even hard to see if you didn't have a good TV

But you know what it had atmosphere this show

has it's like they're trying to copy that but

it doesn't have a Cohesive vision or feel to

it And that's all I'm gonna say I think you see

that I think Discovery because I think it's gonna

get picked up again if it hasn't been already

it is it's already going into production I think

they've written themselves into a very difficult

corner. And here's what like, Saru has left the

ship to go help that kid rebuild his life. They've

gone back to his home planet to be better. Hopefully

the Federation is rebuilding discovery can sport

drive around the Federation and bring people

and ships to this nebula or whatever. Burnham

is now the captain. Her arc as a character is

now complete. What do you do with that? Actually,

I figured it out. You know what this show looks

like? It looks like a vivid video porn parody

in the visual quality. Why don't they just turn

it into a porno, have everybody wank each other

off, and then have a day with it? That's your

season four. Thank you. Fuck you. Bye. I mean,

maybe I just... Okay, but realistically, where

do they go from it? I wouldn't say that... Michael

has had an arc at all yet because there's not

really been a story told at all. There's there's

been things that have happened to her. I could

argue maybe that she's been kind of like the

show wants to put her in charge, but it hasn't

yet. So it's like the author and the story. are

disconnected from each other. Like, do you kind

of get where I'm coming from, Aaron? But the

thing is, is that she's always been in charge

because she never listens to orders. She always

does exactly what she wants. So she's always

in charge. She's perfect. And anybody who says

anything wrong about it, within the context of

the show, they're like, Well, if you weren't

so perfect, I'd be more mad than I already am.

Ha ha ha ha ha freeze frame for the next episode.

But yeah, like she started a war. She started

a war. She mutinied. She was court martialed

correctly and thrown out of Starfleet. And that's

just the start of her insubordination and rule

breaking and how she just goes behind everybody

that's in commands back. And when after three

seasons of doing this, almost every single episode

of her doing this, she finally gets promoted

up. She fails upwards to the point of being captain

of Discovery. But isn't that sort of, isn't that

kind of a mirror of what's what happens now a

lot of times at workplaces in real life? It's

true. You ultimately fail upwards. It's definitely

what Kurtzman has done. He has failed upwards

very well. So here's my predictions for a season

four because I think didn't we give our predictions

last time and we thought it was gonna be and

then and the closest we got was when I was like

I wonder if they're gonna make it like Like from

scratch or there's gonna be like Andromeda and

then it ended up being Andromeda. Here's my prediction

the crazy twist That we're gonna see in the beginning

of the next season is they're gonna find a planet

that has a bunch of like it's going to be a separate

cell of Starfleet that broke off from the Starfleet

we know and it's not and we're going to think

it's evil at first that it's going to be like

this totalitarian regime or something they're

going to meet some the leader of Starfleet and

they're going to do a genetic scan on this person

probably a female maybe a male and we're going

to find out it's her genetic great great great

great great great grandson And she hasn't had

a kid yet. And over the course of the season,

we're going to find out that its book or whatever

his name is, The Father. And this is a colony

created by them that somehow got sent back in

time and has now lived out the last 500 years.

And it's going to be some bullshit like that.

I'm going to say, and this is mostly based upon

what I viewed during Picard. This is my prediction.

You're going to see Discovery do their own take

on the Borg because Picard was... Exactly. And

people love the Borg and Discovery wants to play

with the greatest hits. I think Picard kind of

destroyed the Borg and then people actually hate

it. The only reason I'm bringing that up is because

we mentioned the Guardian of Forever, but people

love the Borgs. So why would they try that trick?

They're going to want to go cheap. So we're going

to see Romulans. Now, how interesting, and they

won't do it because it would be cool, but how

interesting would it be if what we saw, they

find these Romulans and we find out, like they

go, they find them, blah, blah, blah, and the

leader is Eric Bana's Nero. But that doesn't

have to make sense. It has to tie into a property

that actually did well that Kurtzman worked on.

Oh, God. All right, you know, if I'm going to

make a prediction, since everything seems to

be happening around Earth anyway, and like a

20 light year bubble around Earth as it is in

a gal, you know, once a once galaxy spanning

Federation that seemingly only had 300 member

worlds because they don't know what the fuck

they're talking about. Since it all takes place

around Earth, I am going to say they're going

to the Federation as it's coming back together

is going to have a war with a well known species

that they've encountered in the past and warred

with in the past. And it's not going to be one

that you think of. It's going to be the Ferengi.

No, because the Durendian. No, the Kisinti. Because

they mentioned it. And it's going to piss off

everyone that is Nevin fans because they're going

to write them awful. And it will be the conflict

itself will be stupid and contrived. And then

the solution will be barely an inconvenience

to anybody. But it is Jordan and sing kumbaya.

Yeah, like, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. Comes in

and kisses like the big bad guy. And then that's

okay. That's fine. Everything. We're at the we're

at the point now where Kurtzman is going with,

well, they want old Star Trek. I got to go with

Star Trek that I know. And I like, we're going

to have the Frank Gorshin black on one side,

white on one side aliens come back and it's going

to be horrendous. Oh, dear. Those two were the

last. So that makes complete sense that he would

bring them back when they were the last two of

their species. Remember, this takes place before

that. So this is it'll take place. This is what

will lead into their being the last two. Oh,

God. Well, folks, I think we've taken up enough

of your time. I'm sorry for the subspace communication.

Here we go, Michael. One final one. Okay. They're

finally going to do something that people have

been wanting for a while. They're going to find

a way to bring Shatner back, but Shatner is going

to end up being one of those stupid space like

Greek gods and he'll wear a toga and wear a crown

and he'll come out and overact like crazy in

his fat old guy body and I'll still watch it.

Oh, do you know what I want? And this could be

which God he could be Bacchus that would totally

freaking work actually like he Overacting and

like oh he just is swilling wine and he's gonna

walk out. He's gonna walk out and they'll be

like for you and he'll be like I'm Mighty Zeus

and then it'll have like dramatic pause If I

did have one of the giant green space and yes

I did have one thing Kirk from another dimension.

Oh, it'll be Gorn. It'll all be fights with Gorn.

Sorry Gorn wedding I would love to see them fight

the Tholians, but that's not gonna happen. So

anyway, we travel we've taken up enough of your

time Like the writers they just bring in the

writers from the last season and and all the

producers all 22 match and they and they they

film it they're like oh we're gonna have you

all as extras but what they don't realize is

that they actually brought in real baseball bats

and when they beat them to death I have some

vulcaneers on them and have them uh have them

do the on farfight yes Being so negative the

last several episodes, but We we We're going

to do some different things. I think down the

line, sort of choice episodes. And there's other

plenty of other shows we can watch. I just picked

up the sea quest blue. Reset that came out. people

used to laugh at saying they weren't as good

as TNG are better than 90%. Are we going to be

doing like a watch? I think Aaron had kind of

pitched the idea. So Aaron, why don't you tell

the people your idea before we get out of here?

Well, the idea was not watching an entire season

of TNG, but each episode of our show, each of

us choose an episode. from that season of TNG,

like from season one for the first episode. And

we talk about it. And it doesn't have to be like

the most amazing episode. It can be a problematic

episode because I mean, in TNG season one, there

are some problematic episodes and it's okay to

talk about those. But yeah, right now it's on

conspiracy. Dude, conspiracy. I mean, there's,

there's a lot to talk about in that episode.

Okay. So I'm calling it right now. That's my

pick. Please let me keep it. I think the one

I want is the naked now. I think that's what

it's called. That's a good one. Yeah. So that's

the one I want to do. So do we really want to

talk about, should we count far point or. Yeah.

So I would say we got snow. Yeah. No two -parters,

no two -parters. I would say stay away from two

-parters and you know, okay. Conspiracy and naked.

Now that's those are out there. I'll choose something.

At some point, I'm not sure if I want to choose

the very problematic episode to talk about or

actually talk about one of my favorites. Giant

shit tar monster one. Is that what you're afraid

of? No, no. The one that is incredibly racist

and sexist. Oh, oh, oh, yeah. Let's do that one.

It's still better than what we watched. Yeah,

it's you know what it is. It's still better than.

any of the episodes of Discovery that I've watched

this season. Period. It's code of honor is the

episode. I mean, yeah, that's and what's funny

is compared to a lot of TV that was out at the

time, it was still more sensitive. Yeah. So folks

in the eighties, they were still doing not blackface,

but there was still a lot of yellow face and

red face happening a lot back then. and sexism

blatantly. This was their attempt at trying to

address that, and they just didn't handle it

well. So we will have a lot to come in 2021 as

we hope to bring some more not necessary... not

necessarily positivity, but a more critical eye

as long as we're always talking, we're conversing,

and we're looking at different viewpoints on

different topics in sci -fi, different franchises,

movies, themes, books, authors. There's a lot

for us to talk about. I'd love to do an episode

where we actually talk about our favorite missions

to space, our favorite planets, our favorite

spatial phenomenon. There's going to be a lot

of things you're going to learn on the show,

and hopefully you will learn along with us. So

for this Weekend Geek and the GeekCash Radio

Network, this has been the USS Future Imperfect.

Once again, pulling in the space stock with a

lot more damage than I thought we were going

to take. So until next time from the great state

of Michigan, Aaron Paglia from the mountains

of Colorado, Steve Megatron from the home of

downtown Elvis, downtown Elvis. What do you call

me that? Oh, Dalletown. Yes, yes. We have we

there. There is an Elvis that that dresses up

as Elvis. He has two or three different suits

and his entire day for the last 20 or 30 years

has been picking up all the cigarette butts and

smoking them. So, yeah, that kitchen or Elvis.

He doesn't he doesn't ask for money. His suits

are immaculately clean. He has the white suit.

He has the blue one. He has, uh, like a, it looks

like a homemade wig and, uh, all he does is pick

up cigarette butts. And yes. So downtown that

was Alex. So it is more interesting watching

him than it is watching the discovery. And there

is the quote for the back of the box. So until

next time, folks, I've been Mike the bird man.

And, uh, until next time, folks live long and

prosper.