A Discussion on Destiny and Game Controller History

You are listening to a GeekCast Radio Podcast.

Welcome to Off the Cuff episode 58. I am your

host as usual, Michael Powers. I'm joined this

week by, well, I don't know if Art Danner fell

asleep. I'm back. And he's awake. And I'm joined

by Joe Reed. Hello, everybody. Who's been dying

to talk about destiny. I think I might starve

him another week. And of course, you heard the

voice of Sean. So this week, I'm pretty sure

the last half of this show is going to be all

about Joe gushing, getting everybody wet about

Destiny. But the first half of the show, I thought

if I had done what I was supposed to right from

the beginning. The last stuff for last comments

from last episode which was three weeks ago I'm

too long from the third September 4th is when

it's from so I'll go ahead and we'll just you

know Go from the top regurgitating some stuff,

and then we've got some interesting a poll that

we took at comic -con and impromptu poll Regarding

that I had nothing to do with that's because

your opinion doesn't really matter This is true,

and then let's see And you live in that state

that sucks so much they named it after a city.

Anyways. Really? Like? So yeah, we'll finish

the show up with some Destiny talk. So without

further ado, nine days ago Jared Kessler commented,

are you all going to talk about Destiny? I picked

it up and have been playing it nonstop. I wanted

to hate it, not buy into the hype, but I'm loving

it. It's not a perfect game, but I am having

a lot of fun curious to hear your guys thoughts

on the full game Well, keep listening to the

show and I'm sure you'll hear our answers Also,

you could check out our showcase video that we

put up on YouTube. I did that last week to St.

Joe's lust for the game. I needed that it was

very good Yeah. Hi, hi. Connor Murphy replied

to Jared Kessler. He said he's looking forward

to hearing our thoughts on the game, that he

has not picked it up yet himself. Because ours

are the only thoughts that matter. Probably not.

Brad Kellogg said he's in purgatory with systems

right now, hoping to pick up a new system soon

and check out Destiny. I can say the commercials

do make it look like fun. Quick side note, if

you buy Destiny on PS3 or Xbox 360, you are eligible

for a free upgrade to a next -gen platform. When

you buy an extra platform, but it's only till

like after the first of the year I think and

the don't aren't the bungee servers kind of universal

so your character from the old gen Yes, so there's

no reason really to wait at that point Nope not

switching to that nope nope nope not switching

to that do it for a second I don't know I mean

is this the part of the show where we're getting

everybody wet cuz I mean I'm halfway there I

mean I do this Justin Washington said, for me

it's Bungie's take on Borderlands and Halo rolled

into one package, but Destiny does not feel like

either. The initial wow factor along with the

exciting and very gameplay of Halo is missing.

Yes, it feels like Halo, but this is down to

the animations, character styles, and weapon

level designs. None of these dramatically affect

the gameplay. They are just shiny finishes. I

think that has everything to do with gameplay.

It could be wrong. Yeah, I would say gameplay

is probably the the look and feel of the game

strongest thing Yeah, that's like the strongest

thing. It was none of these I'm sorry, but with

these characters none of them have the same appeal

as halos I'd say they have less than halos and

far less than Borderlands They aren't very mysterious

lighting it for dramatic effect. They don't have

God They don't appear to have much of a story

and they arrive in meaningless ways I bet that's

what E .T.'s penis looks like. Seriously? Yes.

You realize none of that is ending up on the

camera, so you're just doing that to have him

interrupt me. Yep. Yeah. Thanks. Mission accomplished.

Borderlands 2 is a great game in many ways. For

example, the loot drastically changes gameplay.

This is down to a large amount of weapons, thousands,

and replaying missions just to find new weapons.

This replay factor seems to be missing from destiny

as the reward is not enough to fight through

the same hordes of enemies I'm not saying destiny

is a bad game by any means, but it just seems

to have missed its goal being a great game Yeah,

we'll talk more about that because when we get

there King Kong says he's jealous. I am the only

person Breathing not playing the game. Well,

that's not true because Brad Kellogg isn't playing

it either yeah he's busy with his cereals you

can go sit in purgatory with him um let's see

and then there was some stuff about uh achievements

um and trophies basically ruining gaming wait

what i don't think they ruin gaming i think that

if you go through like i i i will only go trophy

hunting if it's my second playthrough of a game

yeah definitely Anything that's optional doesn't

ruin gameplay. Yeah Yeah, it doesn't take away.

I mean if your complaint is like, oh it ruins

the game I can look through the trophies and

see what's going on simple don't look through

the damn trophies to laugh with the game I haven't

touched the trophies for destiny, but now that

I've actually finished I should go and do that

and see what there is see what there's well,

they're very I'm assuming there's a bunch of

tied to get all Legendary every piece of everything

be legendary on you or you know stuff like that

get one of each character to level whatever i

just want to put the camera on daner because

he looks like job of the hut um so yeah we'll

talk about this in a second so this past weekend

was grand con Heard that it was so Dan are in

Joe and I were there What did you guys think

was it? I know Sunday was a lot better than Saturday,

but what did you guys think about it this year

versus last year? I I hadn't heard what attendance

was And and I I want to I want to push grand

con I want grand con to be an awesome con and

I I like their mission of combining board gaming

and comics but this second year I know it's not

as big as they want it to be especially the comics

half of it it's a it's a struggle because I'm

learning that these two different genres really

need different things out of their convention

and it's very difficult to put those both in

the same spot but I don't know growing pains

and they'll get it figured out but the the board

gaming is wicked awesome there So awesome that

Dan is yawning that was great the yawn stole

the camera Sorry No, I was gonna say I had a

good time I Dare say I had a better time. I think

this year than I did last year And I think it

was all in part to fact that If you want to have

fun at a convention Just follow behind Joe as

he goes and gets critiques on the stuff from

all the other different comic book artists And

other artists you took your turtles drawing around

everybody getting like pointers and stuff like

that or their thoughts on it Scott Rosema asked

to see it. He wanted to see it. So I did that.

I was gonna say we were to Mark McKenna too.

We were talking about inking because he's a inking

person, inking, I'll say it, he's an inking god.

Yeah, and I got to meet Mark, and me and him

had really awesome conversations. And to me,

that was, I think you could tell that I was slightly

smitten with him every single time he came by.

He would, you know, pat me on the shoulder or

squeeze my arm or something like that. I was

like, you know I'm coming to your booth and I'm

buying stuff. But he was super cool. It was nice

to talk to him about it turns out because I'm

not good at really kind of keeping up on who

does what in comics. I just, you know, I'm a

lover of comic books and it's, you know, it's

exciting for me to when I find out somebody's

worked on something I really have loved and Mark

has a profound amount of love for Exiles because

he was one of the first people, he was the first

inker on that book and then left for a short

while to do Detective Comics and then came back

to the book before to switch hands over to Chris

Claremont and it was nice having a conversation

with him about how Chris Claremont sucks the

fun out of everything. So it was enjoyable. I

had a good time. I had a lot of fun. Have a question

for you because like the last mini con I went

through by me I mean, I understand vendors and

stuff, but you know what do you ever get the

vendors they go there? It's like you're asking

way too much for this, dude What are you thinking?

But I was good this year. I didn't really like

last year. I spent no money at all This year

I bought one game Would you buy I bought merchandise?

oh cool that counts yeah that's awesome um and

then i bought a bunch of prints um artwork prints

and stuff like that um which i like i don't know

i had this epiphany while i was there about how

i'd rather invest in people's artwork than purchase

comic books anymore so yeah same boat with you

dude i don't want to collect stuff anymore i

want to collect pictures Yeah, that's the one

thing I've heard. I heard a lot lately. Hello,

Momo. That's one thing I've heard a lot lately

is that going to the convention when they set

up the comics and stuff like that is that why

would you go there to buy a comic book when you

can just go to your local comic book store? Well,

sometimes those vendors who come into town for

those conventions have books that your local

folks don't get. The only chance I'm going to

ever have to find Ninja Turtles 27 and 29 is

probably at Wizard World or Motor City. Or eBay

or something. Or eBay, in which case I'll over

- I could never buy like vintage stuff off eBay

because I'd be so concerned about a knocking

package, right? Well, when I sent it, it was

good, but got to your hell shitty, so too bad

for you. So yeah. I think out of all the artists

there, I think my prints were the most expensive

ones because yeah, we go there to represent GCRN.

And then I take over half the booth and sell

crappy art. Oh, I'm sorry. We were promoting

GCRN. I thought we were literally just hocking

Joe's crap. Pretty much. Geekcast Radio presents

Joe's crap. Well, at the geek sale, I'll actually

be able to officially do that guilt free. Well,

no, at this point, at the geek sale, you shouldn't

be able to sell anything. Just pimp GCRN. I could

do that. I'm bringing the banner back here, I

got it. I think we did better on Sunday though

because one thing I noticed was that, and I don't

know if anyone else had the same epiphany as

I did, as we were talking to you guys about it,

was everyone around us, everyone's showing off

board games and collectible card games and artwork

and stuff like that for people to come by and

engage in, and the booth right next to us actually

had, they made flasks out of old NES cartridges.

Or flasks that looked like NES cartridges. I

don't think they were actually old NES cartridges.

No, they were cast and food safe plastic. Right.

But people were coming up because they were looking

at an NES case and they were like asking questions

about it and stuff like that. So I kind of thought

that maybe on Sunday that we should just have

Joe bring all of his controllers and stuff and

dump them all over the table. People are like,

what the heck is this thing? Yeah, which would

get people to come up and touch them and try

to interact with us and have a conversation with

us. Okay, I gotta lock the camera because you

guys are all moving it around too much. Sorry?

But yeah, I thought he should, you know, dump

off of battery controllers, and he did on Sunday.

I brought one of everything that I could detach

from a system. And then I have this bag sitting

next to me here. I had an idea that just on the

fly while they were sitting there on the table

I was like, well, let's ask people what their

favorite controller is And we started taking

an impromptu poll and Joe has those results.

Let's see Taking a quick tally of our votes of

all the pastors by that decided to mark the paper

10 11 12 13 34 35 35 people voted on this, so

it's a very wide spread of data that we got to

have a very accurate outcome here. Answers are

on the board, looking for the number one space.

Turkey! Anybody seen that YouTube video? That's

hilarious. Let's let's go with least favorite

least favorite are the ones that didn't make

it on the list at all well At least least someone

actually went to say I like this and everyone

else disagreed with all right somebody Decided

to be weird and and vote for the I'm gonna move

stuff the odyssey one controller this right here

ladies and gentlemen is the first video game

controller you could have in your house in nineteen

seventy two predated pong by two or three years

uh... it's it was not at all what we would consider

uh... board game and i'm sorry uh... video game

it was more of a board game as all of the things

besides the controller were out in front of you

and the dot on the screen decided what you did

with poker chips or play money yeah but uh i

think somebody either had nostalgia factor over

it maybe they remembered it or maybe they were

just trying to be clever but hardly even a video

game controller and i'm surprised it even unplugged

i i Don't get a chance to touch it. I did But

most of the console controllers after this couldn't

unplug from the system They were hardwired to

it the one thing I thought about when I was looking

at that controller because I was the first time

I'd ever seen it in person was it reminds me

of if someone were to make a Video game or a

digital version of that marble game that like,

you know the wood Yeah The maze? Labyrinth. It's

called Labyrinth. For some reason, because of

the knobs, it just looks like a digital controller

for that type of thing. It does have horizontal

and vertical controls. There's an English for

the tennis that goes back and forth. You can

put spin on it. Yeah, I'm sure that worked like

a dream. Oh, I bet it did, yeah. Ralph Baer,

the guy who kind of did the brown box in the

Odyssey and the Odyssey 2, invented video games

for us he's the reason that we are having a podcast

he did this for us but the guy didn't know how

to make games and the guy didn't know how to

make toys and that's why this thing never took

off but it took Nolan Bushnell to make pong before

like let's actually turn it into a game and made

something cool out of it we had other other um

single votes for N64 which i think should have

more votes than this it's not a controller but

it's a good controller Probably yes at the time.

I definitely I love that thing It was it was

weird like depending on the game you hold it

differently Well, we were talking about that

too I've only ever played one game where you

hold that like in the boat What can you really

call it the traditional style on the on the n64?

This would be traditional I would call it but

and this would be n64 style. Yeah. Yeah in the

middle, but yeah, it feels so good Yeah something

that something so gratifying about having a trigger

Yep. Yeah. It felt right. Was that the first

trigger? I think so. Yeah. It may not have been

the first button on the bottom of the controller,

but it was definitely the first, what you would

call a trigger. Actually, I think it was. Yeah,

I think that was the first one. Yeah, I did like

a trigger. Yeah, Sean was right. That was probably

the first one to be like a trigger. The joystick

is, those were notoriously... easy to destroy

and i oh yeah i've snapped so many of those things

i would love to see what would happen if they

released a new version of this controller what

would that what would this feel like with a modern

joystick maybe a second joy up here instead of

the c buttons i don't know i like the c buttons

i knew it did what it needed to do shooters well

it felt good then With the first person shooter.

If I tried to do a first person shooter now...

The reason I say go with the first person shooter

is because those buttons actually were the...

I believe they had the same function as the WASD

keys on a keyboard? Yeah. Kind of, yeah. On some

of the first person shooters, not on like the

Goldeneye, but... Yeah, Turok had the... They

were the WASD keys and stuff like that, so...

But the other thing is, Goldeneye and Perfect

Dark both had the Turok controls in there, so

you could switch to those. Really? Yep. Yep,

you could switch to where the camera, those C

-Sticks were. I bet that would feel much more

natural now. Yeah, until you pick up the controller

for someone else used it and they switch it to

our controls and you're more ready for it. That's

a go. You're like, ah, no, no. So what was next?

So, folks, for Dreamcast, they had a single vote

with the VMU that everybody seemed to remember

having chose on from Sonic the Hedgehog. That

thing was, that little... And what did they call

the little insertion part? They had a special

name for it, right? V .M .U. V .M .U. Visual

memory unit, because it had a little screen with

buttons and you could play games on it. Yeah,

that's like a silly thing to me. Oh, my batteries

are dead. Are you trying to turn it on? Yeah,

I thought I might have had something in there.

Shocking that you're setting it free. Hang on,

hang on. The Dreamcast controller, it has actually

kind of direct lineage to the... Xbox controller,

but the original Xbox. Well and that informed

the 360 as well Yeah, and Duke controller as

it does feel like a Duke. It's almost it's pretty

big now The other thing I didn't like about the

dreamcast control like I like the way it feels

when you hold it when you're kind of holding

it loose But when you grip it the way you're

supposed to that feels like doesn't feel very

good to my wrists Yeah, it does. It makes them

very narrow. It presses your rests in. I think

that needs to be out more, but maybe that's what

they fixed with that Duke controller. I relayed

the story to somebody at the con. I don't have

a Duke with me, it's probably in a bin back there,

but the original Xbox controller was, and they

said this, Microsoft said this, that it was...

Tested a lot in American audiences and people

wanted the big controllers So their test audiences

said but what they ended up doing replacing it

with the s the s controller was what they gave

to Japanese Xboxes that's what they packaged

with theirs and so it's a small Japanese hands

But no that and then that ended up being what

we wanted as well. Yeah, I remember my favorite

My one of my favorite controllers is the wireless

Xbox controller made by who mad cats okay um

the wireless portion where the battery was you

actually had to plug it in to the uh xbox because

the xbox didn't have any built -in way to receive

a wireless signal so you had to put i remember

that in and put the actual thing itself was tiny

it was a really small controller smaller and

i was probably i mean fatter than the playstation

4 but like I'm pretty tiny in your hands. I'm

holding this old Xbox controller in my hand.

It feels huge to me. My hands aren't like this.

No, I'm curious, because I wasn't an Xbox guy.

Why are there two memory card slots? I don't

know. I don't remember ever using a memory card

in it. I had one. Also, that's where the Xbox

version of the Game Genie, I forget what it was

called, also clicked into one of those bots.

Man memory card slots. That's a blast from the

past Yeah, that's yeah, but that that wireless

one the memory card slots were in the portion

that plugged into the Xbox They weren't in the

controller you held so it made your controller

time Okay, I remember one of the things that

they were big on with the old Xbox was that you'd

put your memory card in there and you'd load

on your Madden football team and be able to take

that to your friend's house and plug it into

their controller and load your Madden team up

like mobile bringing your stuff to other people's

systems was big. So maybe that's why. Satisfying

triggers, but that thickness is a lot. From my

thumb to my pointer finger, that does not feel

comfortable at all anymore. I need that little

skin here. Let's see, what is my... Okay, we've

got a tie for first, tie for second, and a tie

for third. Let's just go through let's go three

two one three two and one Yeah, so what was the

top of each of those? I'm sort of top of what?

So there was a tie so tie for third So you can

tell this is very scientific Study here that

we got I maybe we should open this up to the

viewers and discuss this We'll say that now yet.

What's your favorite? video game controller what's

and and when we asked our people at the con it

wasn't which one do you have the most nostalgia

for which this for third place feels like a nostalgia

vote to me which one the atari or the genesis

both um i don't think either of these are good

controllers for various reasons but what is your

most functional video game controller that you've

had your hands on you know i would actually say

the i would actually say the atari one is better

than the genesis one i mean given that what it

was designed for Did you know that you can plug

both of them into each other? That it's the same

plug? You can plug a Sega Genesis controller

into an Atari and make it work. Ah, now you know.

I wonder if you can play Sonic the Hedgehog with

this. You only need one button, right? You only

need one button, so there it is. Directional,

yeah. Yeah, say the original Sega Genesis controller

before the six button. That's another beast.

That just is too large. Don't remember seeing

a six -button Genesis controller. That's that

became standard very quickly after this It's

kind of like the controller s for the 360 but

I had ABC and I think XYZ anybody Nope, and I

wasn't a Genesis guy. That was B Danner You'd

you make me want to go over there and grab it

out of the thing. Did he fall asleep? Oh my gosh

Just keep going okay, somebody needs to call

him now we don't it's better this way Everyone's

a lot just took a dander check switch to him

switch back. No, it's okay. That's third place

second place. Oh My ps4 controller is upstairs

I'm surprised that one has four votes tied with

quick switch to me switch to me. Oh hang on So

this is time for second time for second Okay,

ps4 controller and an NES NES controller. Yep

I will say about the PS4, I don't get why this

is a triangle shape. Eh, I think it's just to

fit that spot. I don't know. It's just weird.

And to use it more LEDs and thereby battery.

Probably just one LED back there to be able to

see it. I would imagine it's just one through

like a diffuser. Yeah. You'd be amazed at what

you can do with LEDs. Yeah, one can, I mean,

especially in a small area like that through

a diffuser can light up a lot, especially new,

like modern ones. Modern LEDs. Now, the one thing

I will say I was kind of disappointed, Joe, with

your NES controller there is that it's a USB

drive on the thumb port on the end of it. It's

not a traditional NES controller. I brought it

because it was on top and easy to get a hold

of. Yes, it is a USB NES controller. I would

love to have drivers for this thing. But it is

not one of the standard USB things that I can

find drivers for. As of any of my users are tech

savvy, help me out. I don't mess with drivers

anymore since I tried to murder my computer with

them earlier this year. But it is a very authentic

feeling NES controller. Anyway, but about the

PS3 controller, I mean... Yes, what do you guys

think of that thing PS? Thank you. I've been

doing that all this I it's a it's a big improvement

coming from Oh, yeah, it's shock. Definitely

definitely my favorite PlayStation 4. I wasn't

a fan of them before it's I still like this dagger

joysticks better, but like it being so light

Like negates that I don't I don't get my hands

don't get as cramped as they would around the

PlayStation The PlayStation controller is that

to me and I know there's been different versions

There's the DualShock 2 the DualShock 3 the 6

axis blah blah blah They've been they've essentially

been the same controller since the PlayStation

They've been like lighter or maybe made out of

a different material different colors, but it's

essentially been the same thing the PS4 controller

while it's It looks the same. It's definitely...

You can see it's a predecessor. I like the way

it feels in my hand. I do think that they...

I mean, I don't have a problem with the Xbox

One controller, but I do think Sony trumped them

on the controller. I'd like to play with an Xbox

One controller for a while because I really like

the thumb sticks. I like how that feels. Now,

Mike, you have both. How big... is an Xbox One

controller. I held one, but I've never had it

like in the same room as my 360. But I can't

really compare. It looks like it's fatter this

way. I feel like it's bigger. It looks like a

360 had a baby with a Duke. It doesn't feel uncomfortable

to hold by any means. But it's edgier than the

360 controller, which was kind of weird. Like

there's there's harder edges on it than there

are in the 360 controller. So I mean, and it's

hard to it's hard for me to actually talk about

because I don't play with it all that often,

other than in Titanfall and some stuff like that,

but hopefully that'll change this fall with Sunset

Overdrive. All right, what was next? Number one,

Tide. Ooh. If I play between those two, it's

a super. Yeah. All the way. Obviously. I'm not...

This is... I never liked Sony's controllers one

because I could never remember square circle

triangle It didn't logically make sense and the

colors I never learned those either They weren't

a big enough part of it And then there's the

problem where my two thumbsticks when you go

to the center I always buy my offset I have a

video for you to watch about the PlayStation

they explain where the buttons came from The

square is a map X and O are yes and no I think

Triangle is supposed to be the map. Well, the

square is the map because it's a piece of paper.

I thought the triangle might be the map because

it was a direction. Anyways, yeah, we're just

probably mixing them up a little bit. Now, is

that a DualShock, like PlayStation 1? PlayStation

1 DualShock. Okay. Remember that thing I know

I've never had a problem with the with the thumbsticks

where they are I've never had my my thumbs hit

each other on thumbsticks. I think Yeah, I suppose

if you have your thumbs in the middle and put

them together They're gonna touch but generally

you might just hit the side of it. Yeah, I'm

usually dragging my I usually don't have my thumbs

on them It's usually kind of like how you drive

a car My thumb is on the bottom edge of it and

that definitely is an improvement on the ps4

because there's a ridge Mm -hmm where your thumb

can kind of grip where instead of just like sliding

off. So yeah, they're now Pores are concave.

These are convex. Yeah the Super Nintendo Uh

-huh is amazing. Yes Jesus, did you almost drop

that like no because it looked like it was all

like crazy That is an amazing controller like

controller design other than joysticks and two

extra shoulder buttons has not moved since that

Okay And I have something to say about controllers

in general. I mean, I understand wireless is

the way to go. Charging cable is a necessity.

When did they decide to cut the length in half?

For what? The cable. As soon as they realized

you can go to Monster Cable and spend 50 bucks

for a... I don't want to buy something to extend

my charging cable. Well, in fairness, Microsoft

doesn't do that. That is a Sony thing. The short

USB cables is a Sony thing. Microsoft does not

do that because Microsoft still, they still hold

on to that whole thing that they had with the

360 where it was another 360, the Xbox. Like

this is for American gamers. That's why they

have that trick, the trip proof cable. with the

brake in the middle of it you know for people

like going and walking across the family room

you're not going to pull your console in the

middle of the floor like that that is something

that only the xbox has and the xbox one still

has that even on their um charge cable and they

come with a really long charge cable um but like

the the short usb the short charging thing that

is on sony like i don't know why they do that

so But I think the reason though, and I could

be wrong. I think the reason that Sony did it

is because one, when they went wireless, they

used a standard USB cable and they still use

a USB cable with the PS4. So I think they're

just kind of like, everyone's got these for their

phones. So they probably have like really long

ones for their desk or something like that. So

it's like why, you know, they've already got

this stuff. Why give it to them? Whereas Microsoft

just now switched over to USB for their charging

point, but they still gave you a nice long cable

Yeah with a breakaway apparently I I think it's

a breakaway. I could be sorely mistaken on that

But I you know for cables. I said this on alter

geek for cables I just go to monoprice for every

single cable. I need to do that. Let's get everything

from there Actually, you know where I like to

get like especially if I just need like a HDMI

Because I spent a lot of my money at GameStop

for games anyways I have so many points that

I just trade them in and I get my cables for

free. Like I ended up one time I traded in it

was it was only like a six foot cable but it

was a monster cable. I don't know who traded

that in who gave that to them but I was like

oh yeah it was like it cost me no money so I

was like oh that's mine now. Are you just fiddling

with controllers now? Yep we'll wrap this up

and say things like Gamecube. One of my favorite

controllers, two joysticks offset, nice. I love

the trigger buttons with the click through so

they sink down their analog but then there's

the click. We've got the Wii which I think if

ever an A plus developer got on this thing and

made a first person shooter it would have been

pretty awesome. Atari 5200, I've never seen one

of these working ever in... I've seen one, I've

only ever seen it in a case. I've never seen

it plugged in and powered on. It probably doesn't

work. Colecovision, my very first video game

system as a child, had little cards that slipped

into the keypad thing. Yeah, I'm pretty sure

that's where you dial in the date and time for

when you're in the Delorean trying to go back

in time. Right? Sega Master System? That controller

I had never seen before. That was new to me.

Merry Christmas. Enjoy. And then the CDI, the

Philips CDI piece of garbage. You were supposed

to play a Mario game with this somehow. I don't

know how, but that was it. Very carefully. So

I think I think they're wrong and we should open

that poll up to our listeners. So let us know

what you think. Yes, another five people need

to add their information to our 35 person poll.

It's not official unless there's 40. I will say

that's only good when it has the grip attachments.

Yep, but I - I hate - it's too smooth without

them. You know what, I'm gonna rant about this

a minute. The classic controller for the Wii

first version. You go online, you buy Mario Brothers,

and you want to play it with your classic controller.

Okay, that's fine. On your NES controller, Mario

runs with the B button. Jumps with the a so you

can you know run and rock your thumb over and

jump all right? Then they started doing the diagonal

layout with the Super Nintendo all right, and

so you play Super Mario World You're just running

around with Yoshi you run you put your finger

on the Y button you rock it down and jump with

B But when the Wii came out They, like, rotated

the button layout, and so now when you're playing

the Mario Bros. 1 on the Wii Virtual Console,

you'd run, run, run, but you had to have your

thumb on the B to run, and rock your thumb over

to the A, so you needed to hold the controller

like this to make that natural. You couldn't

hold it like this. No way to change the button

layout in the game. No, this is how you do it,

Joe. Just pretend this is it, right? What you

do is you put the ball... of your thumb on the

bottom button and then you rock it you rock it

forward also have you ever yes yeah it's weird

also i would never do that yeah but watch someone

play call of duty they hold the controller like

this and hit with their with their uh yeah it's

the craziest thing well it's because when we

used to play with some of our friends that uh

Did active or with activation stuff? I asked

them like I can't hit the button fast and he's

like, oh my my index fingers on on why the whole

time like How I think showed me a picture. I'm

like, that's ridiculous. What do you mean? You

can't hit the Y button fast enough Well, cuz

why was jump or no? Why was uh, we found your

weapon, right? I could never switch fast enough.

You just have slow thumbs, sir I do. I have baby

fingers. Vienna sausage is attached to meat paws.

That's a pretty picture. Alright, that ends our

controller discussion for the week. Let's talk

about some Destiny. I do have one thing. I just

got a text from one of my friends. He said comments

have been disabled on the video for some reason.

They shouldn't have been and I apologize for

that. That won't happen next time. Of course

it's also saying there are zero viewers. He keeps

texting me stop and he's like Like, he showed

me a picture of, like, the Xbox One controller

next to the 360 controller and all sorts of stuff.

And I'm like, I have no way to put that on the

screen except to show my phone, which is not

gonna work. Start talking about Destiny, and

I'll see if I can't fix that while we're doing

this. Okay, Joe, go. So, you know, I saved up

my blood money, and I wasn't sure that I wanted

to get the PS4 with Destiny. I wasn't sure if

that was gonna be the game to win me over. because

I had sworn off almost sworn off of first -person

shooters and and All of a sudden destiny comes

out and as I'm hearing my co -hosts here talk

about all of these wonderful things that destiny

is coming on my Sixth sense that I developed

after ten years of working at GameStop and many

years before that just being a general fan is

like Ringing in my ears telling me this is gonna

be good. You should do this and it sounded like

the devil I don't know why that was like that

but that's because it's made by bungee sir of

course and it with well anyway i i we i picked

it up and i'm i'm starting to play and i played

through the beta and and i don't even remember

responding to the beta as well as i responded

to it actually you did not actually when we talked

about a little bit you were just kind of like

you were like i even think after playing the

beta you even said like i'm probably gonna cancel

my pre -order or something along that line or

i'm not gonna get it and we're all like what

Yeah, I think maybe order just a regular PlayStation.

I've been waiting for something more like Last

Guardian or something to come out for it, but

I After playing it after getting through it as

far as I have I think these Negative reviews

that we've been getting from the official big

news agencies or the the games pub What do they

call it the the games reviewing? industry Yeah,

they're doing a disservice to the game by releasing

these reviews a week and a half after the game

comes out saying it's too short, and this and

that, and it's too repetitive, and I don't think

anybody is doing the job that they should do

to say this is like an MMO. The beginning is

like that. When World of Warcraft came out. It

was not the game it is now. It didn't come out

with 70 ,000 hours of content. It was built up.

And yes, what we're playing right now is short.

It's repetitive. There's not a lot of stuff to

collect. This is vanilla destiny. But it's the

beginning. And it's fine to say all of those

things, but I think every one of them has a responsibility

to say, but. And my... It's an investment. You

want them to say it's an investment. that there's

there will be more that they need to wait for

it or Or be ready for it. You don't have to get

the game now But you might maybe want to get

on board so you don't miss something the big

but that I see besides my own is that There are

things that are put into this game That show

that it's exquisitely crafted the encounters

that we've had the The instances that we get

put in and where the the battles are generally

scripted Kind of where they're coming from and

whatnot. It's so balanced that it's showing how

Wonderful the designers bungee are when they're

crafting that type of mechanic And I'm thinking

of what Sean what was that part that you Art

and I were in dying multiple times? We were doing

the strike anyone who is familiar. It's the devil's

lair strike on earth and we were probably one

or two levels too low to attempt it but we decided

let's just we got like half an hour to kill let's

try it anyways hit a wall we couldn't beat it

kept dying restarting dying restarting it was

like the funnest half an hour of getting my ass

kicked I've ever had I think and and it was all

because of how that game is crafted and The way

we were set up, I was, I think I had discovered

the scout rifle by then, which has been my favorite

gun, because I'm just like headshotting everything

with it. I'm hiding up behind this crate and

Art and Sean are down there. I don't, I'm not

sure what they're doing, but I know they're covering

me and Art's saying, hey, I'm getting shot by

this thing. Can you snipe, can you get those

snipers? And so that's my job. I'm up there tagging

the snipers and they're down there running and

gunning. And every time I think, and you can

answer this for me, Sean, I think every time.

that I died it was because I did something stupid

and so I knew that it was my fault it wasn't

the game's fault cheating or being rigged and

it just felt satisfying man I'm doing my job

my I know my back is covered by these other two

classes down here people are saying that yeah

these three classes are are too similar they're

they're just running and gunning but maybe and

maybe they are but the roles they're just different

enough The roles and the roles that we were playing

in that particular fight Balanced so well that

I think it has to be intentional in the design

of the experience Yeah, it's more like you pick

these classes. Whatever. There's two classes

you pick it anyway, you know If I want to snipe,

I don't have to pick the hunter class I can totally

pick the warlock or the Titan I could pick it.

I'm a title sniper. Yeah, it's all turn into

how I use that class. Like Joe, Joe uses a lot

of single shot weapons. I'm all about fully weapon

next to shotguns. So I'm going to run straight

at the dude. And hopefully I'll headshot him

before you get there and die. No, I'll get there

and die and be like, well, I took half his health

out, but you guys got this. Which is why I'm

excited to switch back to my primary subclass

so I can actually get in there and hurt them.

I will say this. Since we're talking about the

characters right now, but one thing that I think

at Borderlands does better than this game as

far as and I'm not saying this is the only thing

that Borderlands does better the character like

the people you play as I feel like You know,

it's kind of The power sets were set up to kind

of make you want to use To go a particular style

in in Borderlands 1 if you wanted to be a sniper

you were really you were much better off playing

as Mordecai, but that wasn't like it wasn't like

a hindrance because his abilities with the sniper

rifle were awesome Like you don't get those abilities

if you play as another person and the same thing

happened was zero in in Borderlands 2 they made

him like a He was either like he had ability

abilities for being a in -your -face melee character

or you could play him like standing back from

the fray and he like his abilities were only

his abilities and nobody else knew them you got

bonuses for using certain types of guns and i

thought that was really interesting whereas destiny's

characters because any gun can um no um i say

we just let him let him be Yeah, pretty sure

we just uh, oh there he is That was weird It

says we're still live. Yeah, the live never went

away Hang on. Let me uh, let me ask my buddy.

Sorry viewers Technical difficulties We need

a card to put up. There is one that goes up But

I don't know how to make our own. I think we

can I just don't know how to do that yet. That's

cool test pattern Anyways, anyways continue talking

as if we are live just in case yeah, it still

says live so So In in destiny all the characters

can use any of the guns, that's fine. You can

use whichever one you want, but I feel like Given

there's an each character has two subclasses

that you can pick from and I feel like the subclasses

are divided into offense and defense Okay, like

they're divided offense and defense if you go

down one tree you're gonna be like a defensive

player like right now Sean's he's working on

a second tree as a Titan and he has a shield

that actually does some pretty cool stuff, but

that's not doesn't not his play style now Now

in the warlock it's the warlock has two different

abilities as well Which is the class that I'm

playing the first one that you start the game

with it's like I'm gonna stand back behind the

lines and lob Magic missile at all the enemies

because essentially what it is. It's an arcing

magic missile Which is really cool because you

can rain down destruction, which I did in some

really cool moments this evening But the second

class is an in -your -face melee class Like you

are designed to be in the face of the enemy at

all times the super the ability that I'm using

for the character I actually save it for when

I die because I have the ability to res myself

Unfortunately, we don't have anyone here who's

playing as a hunter so we can't really talk about

those two different classes I have a level of

four hunter. So we just need to power level him

up. Yeah I will say from what I've seen people

play is that that is has a very distinctive Long

-range or in your face. Yep But I just I feel

like and that can kind of go into like the larger

discussion I mean the thing that I really want

to compare destiny to is four lands Yeah, because

it's a first -person loop driven game Yeah. Now

here, this is what I'm gonna say. I've spent,

I'm having a lot of fun with Destiny. A lot of

it. The mechanics are great. They're solid. They

came right from Halo. I never really had a problem

with Halo's gameplay. Never. And being able to

play with friends is awesome. Like I definitely

had a lot more fun getting in there just shooting

the shit with you guys. But for me, when we do

those strikes and we get in those hairy situations

and we're dying repeatedly, and you know it's

we're dying we're dying we're banging our heads

against the wall and we're responding and we're

planning we're communicating really well we're

trying to get through this and then you finish

the strike and you go to that screen where it's

like okay we're going to give you a reward and

you gank to me that's just a giant slap in the

face it's like here we are we're going to throw

this this high level difficulty at you and punish

you and even if you get through it you're not

going to be rewarded for what you did Whereas

my lines work along the way but nothing for completing

it. Yeah, and to me I would rather get something

at the end rather than pick up anything You know,

so would you rather everything that drops at

the end everything that would have dropped Just

dump at the end from the final boss or whatever.

I feel a lot more rewarding to see those globes

like at the end of the Heartstrike playlist is

kind of You know, like everything else does But

then you'd have those times where you can't get

to the end of strike playlists. Like, oh, I just

wasted an hour. Didn't beat it. I guess nothing.

Then they need to have. But that's your fault

for playing on a difficulty you couldn't complete.

Happy medium, maybe. But they do a nice thing

with the strike playlists. There are different

levels of difficulty. So it's like, if you couldn't

get to the end of that one, then turn it down

a notch and go do another one. Do the same thing,

just a different level. Yeah. They at least give

you those. Like I don't want to say fine green

controls because you don't really have control

over them. You just get to pick a different playlist

setting But yeah, I'm gonna do a strike on this

level. Don't know which one I just don't feel

for me the appeal in this game right now even

though I've put over a day of playtime into it

I I'm still having fun with that. I'm really

enjoying it, but I think it comes down to just

being able to hang out with my friends for me

when it hit level 20 I It kind of lost that carrot

on the stick and I started for a little while

I was making my own carrot on the stick by just

trying to level up my guns and Then it's just

you know You don't I don't feel like you're rewarded

enough and even when you're doing the glitch

like the murder cave glitch That's going around

right now. Even when you're doing that. I don't

feel like that is Like rewarding like other than

being able to get components to upgrade your

stuff a little more regularly Even when you break

the game, I still don't feel like it's rewarding.

And in that regard, sometimes I'll be in there

and I'm like, I feel like wasting my time playing

this game, but I'm still having fun hanging out

with my friends and I'm still doing cool stuff.

But man, I've said this a lot about Borderlands.

The story in Borderlands was barely there enough

to get you through the game, but at least you

had a driving goal and you kind of knew what

that was. Never something something something

handsome Jack. Well, that's Borderlands 2 But

I never but that's why I was saying Borderlands

because I feel like the story of Borderlands

is weaker than in Borderlands 2 but The characters

of Borderlands hands down trump anything that

was done in destiny and this is my biggest gripe

with the game are the characters or the lack

of them and Are my primary example? Okay, we

Peter Peter Dinklage. Okay. He's a robot and

i don't think he's phoning in like everybody

says i think he's just i i think i think it's

that he's doing his best to play a robot created

by an alien entity like oh he's not i don't think

he's supposed to have a lot of personality he

throws like some weird humor out there that kind

of falls really flat and it's it's i almost think

it's like the robot's like you better not do

this no laugh okay whatever i'm a robot like

but then by the end of the game i liked his voice

Yeah, it's certainly better than it was that

I remember it being there was a you've gotten

used to it I think it was still kind of bad like

in the beginning just because and I think that

It's start his voice started to change for me

or the character of go started to change from

when we got to Venus He started to say a more

Joking things like I one of my other favorite

cutscenes in the game and a little bit of spoilers

here Which by the way, she didn't really play

that big of a part in the game it's just another

character that falls by the wayside the the hunter

lady that's not a guardian that's like stalking

you from like the game yeah like uh there's a

scene when you first get to venus where you actually

confront her and ghost is hovering around her

because she's like talking to someone in her

ear and the ghost is like who's she talking to

what's going on there i'm like i'm a curious

cat what's going on he's like I made sure it

just got better for the character, because the

ghost was all up in her face, hovering around

her. I felt kind of like watching Wally a little

bit there. And he was genuinely funny, especially

when he got pushed, when the stranger pushed

him out of her face. That was really funny. And

by the end of the game, I started to like him

a little more. Now that's saying if he were to

die down the road, I wouldn't really care. Unless

something drastically changes and they make him

more of a lovable character if it if he does

die I'll want it to be like in a funny way though.

I Mean he can't we cannot you can't turn him

into a serious serious character I think no just

run out or at least Play up because I mean anyone

who's played the game realizes the second he

touches anything bad things are gonna happen

And that's unfortunate gaming trope that they

end up blaming on him. Yeah, I understand, but

it's never like, oh I hacked a computer. You

went right in through the front door and everyone

saw you coming. I think what we're gonna learn

is at the end of the game, he hasn't been hacking,

he's literally just been shooting laser at the

door going, hmm. Why isn't this working? He's

basically the droid that you practice your lightsaber

with. that shoots lasers that you block when

you're blindfolded. Very much. I'll go with that.

I forgot what I was going to say now. Well, I'll

jump in and you'll remember. Bungie spends I

don't know how many thousands, maybe millions

of dollars getting these A -list actors. Not

only Peter Dinklage, who's big stuff right now

because of Game of Thrones, but everybody's favorite,

Nathan Fillion and Gina Torres are sub -favorite

from Firefly. Alright, I've been playing the

game since launch. I know which characters those

two are playing in the tower, but I don't know

their names. You know them as Nathan Fillion

and Gina Torres. The thing is that where they

are, you can play through the entire story and

never talk to them and hear their voice. I have

pretty sure. I'm hoping that in adding updates,

more content, making this the 10 -year plan that

I've heard that they want to make Destiny, that

they can say, Oh my god, let's give these guys

characters and I would even say Send them with

you as NPCs into a mission So that they have

dialogue that's telling the story as you go through

checkpoints Make us actually like these characters

because right now I don't know who anybody is

We have the speaker who's not telling us anything

I could tell you about this, but I'm not going

to like come on man and Again, I say all of this

stuff but say let's give them a chance because

I think in five years when they're still giving

content to destiny be it in destiny 2 or in expansions

that might as well be destiny 2 that I lost my

train of thought. Well, I I'll jump on there.

I agree with what you're saying and I I that's

one of the reasons Why you don't want to get

behind I want to I want to level my character

up I want to be able to do this stuff that way

like when when they do give you more stuff to

do I can do it like they they just started the

whole queen's bounty thing um which is an interesting

idea but again just like the bounties or whatever

you're just redoing story missions that you've

already played dozens of times for other reasons

just on different modifiers and that's fun to

a point But I want to watch those cutscenes again

No, that's the thing if if it's not actually

if we're not actually doing the story if we're

done with the game At least let us skip them.

Why do we have to watch Jimmy? I mean, and it's

not that hard because they already like half

-assed it. Anyways, you can go into You can do

a story mission Like you can do one of those

modified story missions like the heroic story

mission of the week and get in there and have

your sparrow Even if it's the first mission like

on Venus where you don't have your sparrow Like,

they'll put you in there and you'll have it so

you can go and do what you need to do right off

the bat. There's two things I want to put out

there, and I want to see what you guys think.

The first one I think will generate more discussion

than the other, so I'll just go with this. There's

a guy on Twitter that I follow. He writes for

Wired. His name is Chris Kohler. He put up the

theory that, I think I might have said this to

you guys before, but I really want to kind of

dive into this. This is kind of like when the

first Assassin's Creed came out it was You know,

it had this there was a lot of high praise on

hoopla around it all the stuff you're gonna be

able to do and then you get in the game and The

work, you know, it looks it looks amazing. It

plays. It's okay. And then You do the same three

or four things repeated Across the three or four

cities they put in the game And that's all there

was to do. And then everyone was like, that's

not that great, whatever. And then Assassin's

Creed 2 comes out and it's amazeballs. Because

they spent all their time developing the world

of Assassin's Creed and the engine and making

things work that they were just able to, all

of a sudden it was like the one thing they had

to work on with Assassin's Creed 2 was how do

we make it... More the mission variety more varied.

How do we make the gameplay more fun? They didn't

have to start from scratch and build an engine

You guys see that same thing happening with destiny

here Well that that ties into where I had lost

my train of thought I think in five years when

we have content and maybe destiny to you that

we're going to look back at the first week and

a half of Destiny's launch at levels 1 through

20 and say, this was just the tutorial. We don't

have any clue what the grand story is gonna be.

This darkness that we're fighting might end up

being something completely different and revealed

to us in future content. Joe says not having

finished the game. One more mission. I will say

that... If you take Halo 4 and even in the Master

Chief Collection takeout and compare it to the

original Halo when it came out, those are two

completely different things. None of them have

story outside of ODST and Reach, so it really

doesn't matter. Well, they do, but it's not like...

You have to read the books. No, you can get away

without reading the books, but it's definitely

not like... That's not what that game is for.

That game is not about the story. It's about

shooting stuff, and that's what Destiny is about

right now, too. It's just shooting stuff. Everything

built on the for this is just the stepping stone

for the next This kind of actually feeds into

I kind of had this theory last night when I was

playing with Sean Z Because we keep going back

to Borderlands I'm not entirely sure when destiny

went into development But I know it's I think

it's been in development for at least five years

Or four or five years could be wrong Because

the last game they did was Reach? When did Reach

come out? Anyone know? Going once, going twice?

Off the top of my head? Three years ago? Bam,

2010. 2010. So it's been about four years. So

they've been working on Destiny. They've been

working on Destiny. We could say they probably

started it before they did, you know, while they

were wrapping up Reach. So four or five years

here, they've been working on this game. In that

time, Borderlands and Borderlands 2 have both

come out before this game did. When you're developing

a game, you kind of have a target that you have

to hit, and you can fall into this thing called

feature creep, where it's like, I'm just gonna

keep adding features as they keep coming out,

and your game will never come out. And that's

actually what happened to Duke Nukem. Duke Nukem

is notorious for that. So it was just feature

creep, feature creep. I wanna make it the best

game possible, so I'm gonna change engines because

a new engine came out. I think when they set

out, if you look at the way that Destiny feels

with its monster closets and its encounters,

as good as they are, it definitely feels like

a game that was, at least it was conceived four

years ago, four or five years ago on paper about

what they wanted to do. the time Borderlands

has come and you know changed the world and I

don't think Destiny was or Bungie was willing

to scrap everything and change their direction

just because Borderlands came out of nowhere

and took the gaming community by storm as far

as loot in a first -person shooter and then But

Gearbox also had the time to do Borderlands 2,

which iterated on the stuff that they had done

in Borderlands. It was actually very easy because

they just took the funding from Colonial Marines,

so they had all that extra cash to make. Well,

that's besides the point. Because they made a

boatload of money off of Borderlands. Yeah, they

did. But I feel like Destiny just kind of got

stuck being... It took so long for it to come

out and... It and so I'm wondering if like the

next game or even it could even be the next DLC,

you know, the the next story content could be

drastically different than what we're seeing

I'm hoping that there is a slow trickle of small

updates planned soon like we the the first gigantic

What are they not strikes the bigger one raise

palace the raids I think the raid they had done

but they waited that week to launch it. And I'm

hoping that in two weeks we'll get something

else, and that two weeks we'll get something

else, and that later we'll get a giant thing.

Yeah, plus, I mean, the raid, even if they input

it out immediately, who was at level 26? Yeah,

that's why they waited. Within that first week.

Plus, get your servers a little more stable before

you put something in the thing where they're

going to have to commit. a large chunk of time

to and it might crash. I mean make them just

a little more stability never hurt anything.

Can we address that really quick? That was a

really smooth launch for Destiny. You're telling

me. Yeah. Outside of the hackers we weren't playing

the game because we were at Grandcom. But I mean

that was like a week and a half later. I'm yeah

like you look at what happened with Diablo 3.

You look at what happened with SimCity. Was Grand

Theft Auto 5? The online portal 5 online was

not working. No, it was going bad. Like for the

first few days, if you couldn't get in, you couldn't

log on. Right. I remember that. So, uh, but destiny

went really smooth. I was shocked. Um, they're

veterans at this. They've had so much experience

with two, three and four and reach and all those

online bits. Yeah. But at the same time, I mean,

micros are activision's also done. Call of Duty

games and stuff like that and they published,

you know Diablo 3 I think it's like they just

published one of those games that you know caused

all these problems They didn't want to have a

repeat of that again and they didn't Congratulations.

You took an always online game and it launched

on the day it came out. It did not die Even though

most people had to download 15 gigs of data first

So I know it sounds like I'm trying to be all

down on the game, but I, you know, it's, they're

valid. I think they're valid. I am having a ton

of fun with the game. And to a certain degree

when we're playing, I'm very jovial about it.

Like we'll make fun of like Peter Dinklage just

going up and pushing the same thing and triggering

an alarm. Cause he's like, I'm going to go hack

that. It's like, no, you're not. No, it's now.

I'm sorry, everybody. Anyone else have anything

they want to say? I really thought I had more

to say but I'm I'm I guess the the the glow has

worn off over the course of the week It's still

in a ridiculously fun game that I want to go

play right now, but I have to be to bed in an

hour I think there are things in the game that

Demonstrate a level of craft and game making

that are there's unsurpassed that bungee knows

how to do the first -person shooter and they're

demonstrating the fact that they can Put an MMO

on top of first of a first -person shooter and

out of the gate They seem to have the system

figured out there are tweaks drop rates and but

but as far as like enemies scaling to you and

to your team and Even though I'm three or four

levels behind my friends who are fighting guys

who are higher level than them I can still feel

useful in combat What's that as a medic as a

medic? No, that's that's actually harder to do

to go in and save you guys Because then you know

I die but I think that shows a level of craft

that again is just Demonstrating that they know

what they're doing and I think that in a couple

of years This is gonna be awesome. My wife asks

a question. She's watching the show upstairs

she says We've mentioned the 10 -year lifespan

that bungee hopes to have with destiny is they're

still gonna be a PlayStation 4 and an Xbox One

in 10 years? I mean, is 10 years just a number

they're throwing around? Well, here's what I

think. Most console, and this one might be a

little faster because they used off -the -shelf

components for these ones to make them as cheap

as they possibly could. I wouldn't be surprised

to see the next PlayStation in four or five years.

But what I think will happen is they'll have

Think you'll have there will be content for ten

years because and this is actually shown because

they The ability to transfer your character from

ps3 to ps4 could be done right now. So there's

no reason you couldn't take your destiny character

from ps4 to PlayStation 5 So I'm trying to unmute

Danner as I muted him Oh, I did not mean to put

the camera on him Trying to just unmute him.

He took his headphones off. I'll just leave it

be. I'm not sure. I'll just put them back on.

Okay. Anyways. Good morning, R. I missed you.

Are you there? Yeah, I just didn't realize it's

been an hour and oh my god. Are you okay? No,

I'm... It's alright, man. I'm tired. Okay. Well,

we don't want to go. Do you want to go or do

you want to stick around? I'm going to go. We're

almost done. I think I'm going to go to bed.

All right. I'm sorry, guys. You mean back to

bed? No, don't worry. It is actually very cute.

We watched you change positions a few times.

I didn't hear you on camera. I didn't. Well,

that was nice of you. I'll see you guys later.

All right. We love you, Art. Yeah, I could totally

see it going for 10 years. I mean, I and I do

think the PS4 because the PS3's almost been out

for 10 years and it's still going a little bit.

There's still some stuff coming from the PS2

before it was around for more than 10 years.

Plus, with these systems now being basically

computers and boxes, they've made them a lot

easier for them to update. Through up to or through

down those system. Yes, it's been patches. I'm

sorry. Thank you So and that so that blends it

these should be the longer lasting of all of

them The ps4 should have a longer shelf life

than the ps3. I think we'll take all speaking

I don't know if they'll probably replace it within

that time. Yes, it will be ability wise it has

a long time to go Think it'll be replaced in

about five years. The thing is the ps3 the 360

they were around for way too long Yes, they were

like way they held everything back gaming wise

which is one of the reasons why the the ps4 and

the Xbox one Have sold as well as they have people

were starved for new hardware And I think that

you know think well if they're smart and you

see this the thing is we've entered a new era

of stuff like with electronics and hardware and

they've you know they've been watching you know

Sony and Microsoft have been watching the the

cell phone and the tablet market right you know

they've been watching that oh new one every two

years if they wanted to it would be like in I

think their systems in place where It'll end

up being kind of like your your Android phone

or your iPhone. It'll be You'll you'll want to

play a game and all of a sudden it'll be like,

you know, you you don't have this operating system

if you don't have the now that won't happen I

think this hardware is designed to last longer

than a cell phone. I know Apple like back dates

their stuff at least Four years, you know, they

have four years of support and it might not run

as great on the old stuff but it's still there

like they're still supporting it like and Think

they've been they've been looking at that stuff

and I think that they could do that So it's like

in four years when I'm you know when a new What

they prove might start our customer experience

though, that's not an improvement That's a it

makes sense for the business people to do that

But it doesn't make sense for the consumer to

partake in that business model, but consumers

are already partaking in that business model

Yeah, because we're dumb I agree My new phone's

great, but I just think I but the thing is they've

been you know That's something that's happened

in the last ten years is you know tablets and

cell phones have taken off and they've gotten

people used to upgrade upgrading Certain hardware

for every two years. I really wouldn't be Surprised

to see something I I wouldn't be surprised to

see something. Do I want to see something that

soon? No, I don't want to see something that

soon I'd rather go five years, ten maybe, but

this hardware is not going to be around for ten

years. It'll still be there because the installments

will be there. It'll be there the way the PS3

is there, but it won't be there. It won't be

the console in ten years. My biggest fear is

that consoles will eventually become like gaming

PCs. Sure, you can take a really old PC and play

the newest PC game. Sure. Is it going to be on

anything close to Mac's... visual is an audio

now it's your running bare minimum everything

playable but now if you want the best stuff you

get upgrade everything as you go but and I couldn't

get I can't get behind that I don't think that's

one of the main reasons I'm a console gamer the

minute that happens I'm done me too the minute

they want me to buy something new every two years

I'm done yeah it's like I can justify spending

$400 every five years I can't justify spending

you know Even if they cut it back $300 every

two years, I can't do it. I agree. I'm just,

I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen. And

I, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I'll have to

wait and see. And at that point, that's when

backwards compatibility becomes the thing. And

I honestly can't, I can't believe that backwards

compatibility on these consoles is the chore

that it is. even from a consumer standpoint because

You know my iPhone will run apps that were on

the first iPhone Yeah, it will it will still

run them like games that I got on my iPhone still

work on my new iPhone You know emulate everything

now I mean what you have what you have sitting

underneath your TV that you play your games on

is a computer Yeah, what it is now and I there's

no doubt that they get now. Here's the thing.

Would you pay? small premium for backwards compatibility

like if they were if they put in a if if Sony

and Joe you probably wouldn't because you don't

have any love for so many franchises but if I

I've often thought that if they were to let's

just call it virtual console because that's Nintendo's

thing that actually makes a lot of sense if they

were to release a virtual console in the PlayStation

Network Store for 20 bucks and you could play

all your places three games on your ps4 would

you do it I'd probably You would because you

are you those you have the nostalgia of those

games what I know because I don't care All the

games I play my play. You have my PlayStation

4 are within the last couple years I think there

will be some kind of app from the store to allow

you because if there's one if there's someone

that can the reason emulation is so hard is because

they have to backwards engineer and jury rig

all those emulators to work and the From everything

I've read online and forms stuff the ps3 and

the 360 were They don't the documentation for

their hardware is not public And so it's taken

people a very long time to reverse engineer How

they how they actually work in their in their

programming language? But that's neither here

nor there I think destiny is worth it. Even though

i'm right now. It's just kind of I'm just playing

to bring my level up, and I'm playing to hang

out with my friends. Am I disappointed with the

game? The game? Yes. Is it weird to say this?

The game? Yes. The experience? No. You wish the

game had more of what you thought it was, but

you're still having fun anyways. It's not what

I thought it was going to be. It's like 50 %

to 75 % what I thought it was going to be. 25

% of it is just missing. 25 % is like, oh, come

on, Bungie. Yeah. Give me a purple drop. It's

that, it's the story. It's just, I can't. It's

having Nathan Fillion in a role that he doesn't

have a personality. The thing, everybody's talking

about loot drops. There's even a Twitter account

making fun of the loot drops, which I think is

hysterical. Oh, it's hilarious. It's freaking

great. Joe, you don't know Twitter. It's that

thing that you do from your computer that you

don't do because you can't get on the other thing.

That's something that can be easily fixed. Like

they just did a fix the other day where there

was a couple of missions that when you're playing

them on with an increased difficulty, certain

modifiers would hit and if an elite level guy

came out with those modifiers on him, you couldn't

kill him almost. You'd become almost immune to

everything you could throw at him and you'd literally

have to spend all of your bullets taking your

shield down and by the time you reloaded, your

shields were back up. That's because it's a stalemate.

So that loot system, I can totally see them fixing

if they wanted to. I think they'll fix it. And

if they come out and say they can't fix it, I

cry foul because even Diablo fixed their loot

system. They've already doubled the frequency

of public events. So it's something that was

supposed to happen every hour and happened every

half hour. And I love that we've been able to

game that. We've mapped it. Well, we've mapped

it. on the one on the one world well just because

we know where they are i'm pretty sure they still

happen like that everywhere else maybe i've never

seen the public event on venus or mars i haven't

hung out enough oh there's a satellite on mars

i've had i don't know if there's anything special

like the walker that's on earth i don't know

i don't we spend way more time on earth than

anywhere else so i would say if you're okay investing

in a game that's fun to play with your friends

Exquisitely fun. I'd say destiny is fun for you

Joe, what would you say? I agree that And I don't

know I have this sixth sense and I'm I would

almost wager to say that I don't think I've been

wrong on it Destiny is going to be something

special. It's not special yet great Great amount

of fun, but I think in three years we're gonna

have something very special on our hands that

will be unlike much Anything else that we've

played There's something that I think destiny

is the kernel of the idea I think Grand Theft

Auto is the kernel of the idea for the theme

of this next generation, and it's going to be

asymmetrical gameplay. And I've dropped that

line here before, where three people, five people

are in a team, each one of them is doing something

different. I think that's going to be the thing

that we remember in seven years when this generation

is nearing the end. Just in that experience that...

Sean Art and I had, I was the sniper. They were

down there doing their different jobs. Yeah,

it's still a first -person shooter. We're looking

down a scope and shooting, but we were doing

different things, having different experiences.

And I think Grand Theft Auto V, maybe when we

see... Oh gosh, the walking through the post

-apocalyptic city, the guy with the iPad can

control the drone. What's the game? I keep looking

at the division. I think Grand Theft Auto V is

going to lead to what the division is, where,

yep, it has those three different characters.

One guy's the driver, one guy's the shooter,

one guy's sniping from the building across the

street, and you have to cooperate to complete

the larger picture. I think Destiny is going

to be headed there once we have more character

classes and more variety in gameplay. I wouldn't

be surprised if we saw spaceship combat at some

point in Destiny. I would. I'm so glad you brought

that up. There's so many different types of ships.

At the moment, they do nothing. I really want

them to put there was one mission in on Halo

Reach. Yep. You know the one I'm talking about

is basically they took Star Fox and put it in

Halo for like half an hour. Blasphemy. My sixth

sense says that stuff is coming. That is the

closest you can say. I'm not saying it was as

good as Starbucks, Mike, so keep it in your riches.

But I need these things that are collectibles

that you can buy. I need them to feel like, even

the sparrows, you buy the better sparrows. They're

more durable. They have the ability to strafe

sideways. The ship is purely cosmetic. All it

is. so far and and it's weird like the way that

matches up you can see where it's kind of like

it has the there's different ship parts i want

that to actually be something let me do more

with that ship in five years we'll be piloting

spaceships we'll be driving tanks we'll be sitting

in the game in the game we'll be crafting guns

with those different parts and that will there

will be people who don't even shoot the gun And

then the guns and sell them to players. I I think

that's where destiny is going I hope so, but

if destiny doesn't go there There will be other

games this generation that will and I that are

like listen this first person Uh, uh, you know

massively multiplayer online game community thing

can work on a console. No a lot of them if If

borderlands 3 transitioned to this model the

destiny model where it's always online everyone's

running around the same world. I understand what

you're saying, like everyone's doing their thing.

And I always felt that's how it was in Borderlands

as well. Like I've got, you know, Shaun's running

in there with his shield and his turret. Like

the exact same experience you're talking about

playing with your friends, the asymmetricalness

of it, is the same experience I got out of Borderlands.

And you didn't take that away from Borderlands

at all. It never felt as magical when all the

parts were working well in Borderlands. It felt

like a game. when all the parts work well in

Destiny, I feel like I'm a part of something

greater. It feels composed to me. Do you think

that's simply because of the way they've done

the enemies? Like, for example, Borderlands,

if I'm a level 70 character, and this happened

to you, this is a true experience for you, You

know, we're we're level 60 level 70 characters

and we come to play with you and you're level

20 and we're doing your story We have the ability

to one -shot guys and they will just disappear

off your screen Whereas in destiny regardless

of my level compare our levels compared to anybody

else's levels We can still get our butt handed

to us if we're not playing. Yeah, you think it's

a you think it's it's magical to you because

there's Your level Doesn't so much it still relies

on skill to a certain degree Like you said you

can't get to the point where you just stand in

the middle and I'm a bullet I can really stand

here and they can't kill me if I put my like

there's parts of Borderlands where I can put

my controller down Walk away. I'm gonna come

back and exactly that part not dead because there's

nothing this guy's bird says hi. Yeah Well, no,

no, I mean I could literally go a I'm just, but

I'm just, I'm just curious about if that's, do

you think that might have something to do with

it? Because even, you know, we're, we're playing

level, you know, we're playing level sixties

and you're playing like a little level five.

We walk over everything while everything's still

giving you a challenge versus this. It's like,

if I'm level 20 and you're level five, I can

still get my butt kicked by your gut, by the

guys that you're fighting. I think with destiny,

we're going to discover later that the difference

between level one and level 20 is not as wide

as it, as it looks that we're the enemies are

still going to be deadly within that range. I

think when you're walking around as level 100,

coming back to level 1s, you'll be able to put

the controller down and be fine. But what Borderlands

felt like with all of the wonderful powers, it

often felt unbalanced, and it almost felt like

as they're creating these guns and creating the

characters, they're throwing whatever numbers

they feel like putting in there, so it's fun.

But I think the numbers that bungee has put into

how things work the algorithms the the level

the scaling all this stuff It's put in there

to create a crafted experience not just let's

give them numbers and loot and all these different

guns Some of them don't do anything. Some of

them are wicked. Um It seems borderlands seems

more willy -nilly to me. It doesn't seem as artistic

I think I I see where you're coming from, but

I think it has I personally just you know, just

having a conversation with you I think it might

just have more to do with They're the way they

handled enemies because what I like the guns

in borderlands. I feel like there's character

to the guns as well as people and destiny needs

that and But the problem is destiny's guns all

look so Generic and you know what that might

even be it's art style and Destiny looks great.

I'm not complaining about the way that it looks

but Can totally see why Borderlands switched

over to the art style that it has I can actually

show you what but I have a video bookmark on

YouTube that is the first It is the first concert

shown for Borderlands. It looks like destiny

and They took they like this cell shading wasn't

there. It was not as goofy Yeah, the problem

was they were they put it out there that video

out there and it came out about the same time

as rage was hitting Those games look the same.

I think one of the fallout, I don't think it

was three, I think it was New Vegas. It was out

there too. And all three of the games looked

the same and Gearbox was like, that's not, we

need to stand out. And that's when they went

through and redid their art style. There was

something comical and fun about Borderlands.

You're not wrong about that. But I think, and

I agree with you now, because I really do enjoy

the encounters in... Destiny I like turning the

difficulty level up and kind of oh, yeah banging

my head against the wall every once in a while

like Just just getting into trouble and be like,

okay, I can do this if I'm smart about this I

can do this work. Yeah borderlands. Yeah, I'm

like if I out level these guys I'm gonna destroy

them. Yeah, I will definitely say in a destiny

There is never a circumstance where you cannot

be overwhelmed Yeah, that's even by those creepy

little level twos If you lose track of one of

those invisible guys with swords and he gets

in, his melee's hurt. I don't care how much defense

you have. And then all of a sudden you turn after

he's taken out all your health and you focus

on him. And that sniper you were going to shoot

hits you a couple of times, all of a sudden you're

dead. Like, sure, these guys' levels together

don't add up to half of what I am. Doesn't matter.

You still took the damage. I think if there's

one thing I think that Borderlands could take

from Destiny. It's the combat like it's the way

they handle And I don't know I don't know what

I would call it like the damage that you deal

to the enemy Like is that I I don't know what

mechanic that your DPS I guess if you want to

call it anything sure your damage per second

I I think that's one thing that they could take

from destiny but I think destiny could probably

take just about everything else from Borderlands

because I I Feel like if you're not you never

feel overpowered in destiny and you feel overpowered

importance And Joe you never got to feel that

feeling and I'm sorry for that Yeah, it's alright.

I think I don't the one thing I don't want destiny

to take from Borderlands is and and I'll imagine

this in oh That that explosion guys voice. I

don't want to see loot explosions. I do want

to see loot sprinkle out, but I don't The issue

that I had with Borderlands was in all of the

the majesty of the variety of guns It took me

too long to figure out which ones I should be

paying attention to except for like the color.

Okay, pick up the purple ones, but That seemed

that seemed too Too much. I Need a nice happy

medium in there. That's what but that's what

destiny's devolved into for us. It's like, okay

We're looking for Ingram's we're looking only

for purple Ingram's like that's what we're looking

for and The thing that really bums me out is

like even when you find a purple Ingram You're

not guaranteed to get like a legendary item So

it's kind of like you can and I'm using the murder

cave here and it is an exploit is a glitch So

I really shouldn't be complaining about it But

I'm just gonna point this out there because I

have found Maybe ten that legendary Ingram's

the entire time I'm playing the game None of

them have decoded into purple items. They've

all decoded into blue or lesser items And that

is what the Twitter account is all about. It's

a purple Ingram Twitter account. Like just saying,

I am the blue, the blue shoes you've had since

you've been level five because you can't find,

you know, the replacement stuff. But then I will,

I will also say that every legendary that I've

ever got out of an Ingram has been a blue Ingram.

It's like, it gives you a range. This could be

anything within this range. There you go like

a purple obviously a purple has a very poor chance

of giving you a green item So basically it's

like you're getting a blue or purple or a piece

of material. I think Sorry, good. I think my

purple the purple engram that I picked up was

my purple armor I'm not exactly sure where I

got that anymore, but it was no it was a blue

engram that decoded purple arm Yeah, so you guys

have been notoriously lucky with this whole loop

thing and I have not The legendary arm that I've

got? Well, my chest... Actually, to be honest,

I don't know, with the exception of when I found

the duplicate arms, the only legendary stuff

I've found is guns. My helmet I bought because

I had enough Strange Coins. My chest, arms, legs

were all earned through Vanguard Points. See,

that's not fun to me. Like, I would rather find

that stuff out in the wild, not... Buy it from

a merchant like and that's the thing destiny

the one thing that bungee said about their loot

system I really don't want to talk very much

longer. It wasn't expecting this to be that long

Was that they said that the reason the loot drops

the way that it does is because they wanted you

to feel like the gun that you got Like me something

like it means something that you earned it, but

the problem is like I said when I go through

a strike mission Like in you know, like the higher

level strike missions and I go through those

and I slog all the way through it to the end

and I Defeat that guy and I come out to that

reward screen and I get zip What was that word

what was that for? Yeah, it's like that's when

maybe you should be showering us with not showering

us but maybe like give us like a reward or something

and I don't know I could be completely wrong,

but that's just how I feel about it because I

hit that level and I do I totally agree with

where they came from with their loot system because

the scout rifle I use is a level 16 scout rifle

I have not found a level 20 scout rifle and all

the loot cave in the murder caving and stuff

I've done I've not found a better scout rifle

than the one that I have and I got that playing

in the crucible like you're rewarded in the crucible

for for whatever reason we can't Yeah, I still

haven't figured out how you can do it's like

if you do really good You'll get something and

if you do really bad, you'll get something. But

if you do, okay All my rewards have been um,

i've led the team in kills and everything got

nothing I've done the worst on the losing team

and gotten two or three things. Yeah, I can't

figure it out If it's a crap shoot for everyone

or but I slogged in there and guess what? They

gave me the carrot on the stick and it was something

great, but I haven't experienced that like In

the game at all the game proper breaking the

game and grinding it out. Yeah, I've I've felt

it but doing like the story stuff like the heroic

weekly stories and and the stress like that I

don't feel like you're properly rewarded when

you get when you finish those And also, I don't

know also but we're a week and a half into having

the game No, it's longer now. I think but was

it the nice two weeks two weeks And we're griping

that we haven't reached the end and gotten the

best equipment yet. Maybe should we be worried

about it? No, I'm not. I'm not. It's not really

my... I don't care that I haven't gotten the

best loot. Give me purple shit that's like not

useful to me. I'm totally fine with that. But

at least let me feel as if I'm earning stuff.

Maybe not the stuff I'm looking for, but I'm

making progress at some point. And that's the

other thing. Two weeks, and we finished this

game. That's a problem, they need more missions.

We finished the story. Story, but like I said,

you mean the tutorial for the game? Yeah, we

just paid 60 bucks for tutorial, now go play

multiplayer, because that's what everyone else

is playing. Nah. Going into this, we were most

excited about the raid, because we could finally

get six people together. Yeah, and that's what

we got to get to that point. I'm like everyone

get on now. Yeah, that's I'm looking and I'm

looking forward to it. And that's one of the

reasons why I'm still playing is because I want

to be high enough level. I want to have, you

know, good stuff. I think the other thing that

kind of bums me out is that your guns don't level

up like your armor gets better, but your guns

don't get better. So it's kind of like I've had

the same guns since I was 16. I think the Borderlands

and Destiny would be better for having a favored

gun. You get a gun because you're a guardian,

and this gun is the one that follows you. You

have a secondary gun that you find. But this

gun, as you're going around, you're finding components

that may be fit, that may be open. Maybe you

give your friend, this gun is my gun, and I'm

gonna make it what I want it to make. And I think...

that might actually be a good place to include

a trading mechanic because i think destiny is

is cutting off trading so that they don't open

themselves up to a duplicating exploit i think

that's why that's why that's stealing loot that

i'm okay with though yeah me too but there's

If they had a favored gun where you're finding

components everywhere that you can socket not

socket or sell I think that would be an interesting

mechanic and then I'd have My gun that would

level with me and scale with me all the way through

so that's the thing I and I i've said this before

Like I you know I complained a lot about borderlands

2 when they started fixing a bunch of the glitches

and the exploiters in that game Because borderlands

was so broken and that's what made it fun and

charming That you know when they started doing

in borderlands 2. It's kind of like no you're

you're killing the experience. I expect Destiny,

I expect Bungie to police Destiny with a tooth

and nail. I actually can't believe that Murder

Cave is still there. Me too. But then again,

that is an exploit in their geometry, in the

level design, and it's a literal spawn closet.

How do you fix that without destroying the spawn

closet? Or destroying that part of the map? Because

that's a meth that's got a lot of patrols in

it if you get okay mess with that well now there's

fallen waiting on the top of hill for those hive

to come up and attack them that are not coming

or I Don't think it's necessary. I don't think

it's that There's something wrong with that area

What I think is it's just the number of low -level

enemies that come out of there Because there's

definitely other place in the game where you

can sit and watch guys spawn and they'll come

in and keep spawning keep spawning it's just

not that amount it just happens to be the number

of enemies coming out of there because they're

all low level brawls but i sort of fix that because

even if you're not on patrol those guys still

spawn from that same cave like you don't yeah

the only way i can see them doing it is being

like okay these enemies right here this tiny

little group of enemies has a very decreased

chance of dropping stuff I they might make it

so that they don't drop loot at all. That could

be that's gonna push people away I think the

other thing they could possibly do is shield

them Until they're so far away from the cave

like they do with some of the bosses make them

immune until they're till they get out. Yeah

But I don't I mean but I expect them to you know

Fix that like a lot of the glitches in Borderlands

if they ever showed up in destiny I expect bungee

to fix that because that is bungees mo they're

trying to do you know what you know what Joe

said they're trying to you know, keep it balanced

and Make sure there's a checks and balance system

for the entire game that borderlands never had

Until borderlands 2 and that killed it for me,

but I went into destiny. They're expecting them

to police it. So All right, I think it's not

enough. Yeah, I didn't mean to talk that long.

I'm sorry guys Let me pull up my um, you've only

put one of the the podcasters to sleep Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, let me pull up my um, my script here

for uh Excuse me for closing it out. What the

heck? Is this it? You can do it. I believe in

you. Oh my gosh, where is my? There it is outro.

Got it. Okay, switch this over to moi and my

dog. My little doggie. My little doggie. I can't

wait to meet your dog on Friday. Oh, I just hope

he doesn't drive you guys crazy. Are you dog

sitting? No, I'm bringing him with me. Yeah,

um, if you want to get in touch with us You can

comment on our parents site at geekcastradio

.com or send emails to us at feedback at geekcastradio

.com You for anyone watching on youtube, you

can also leave a comment in the youtube section

and I will try and check those as well You can

find myself michael powers on twitter xbox live

in the playstation network at booth ninja 81

Uh, danner is no longer here. He went to bed

Poor him, uh, you can find daner on twitter at

art daner. You can find them on xbox live, uh

weapon space 12 You can also find them on the

playstation network x -51 the machine man shanxi

Oh, yep. I've been shanxi. You can find me on

xbox at weapon 87. You can find me on PlayStation

network. You really creeped me out joe. Yeah,

you find me on playstation network at weapon

for 01 You can find me on the cosmodrome probably

shooting at the murder cave just gasping You

can find me on Twitter at at Sean's around Okay,

Joe You can find me most easily Probably lately

on PlayStation Network and yeah fire. Yeah 405

you can also find me. Hey, we have a geek sale

this Saturday in Grand Rapids just off 28th Street

and find me on the Facebook page Facebook slash

geek stuff garage sale no spaces If you're local,

I hope I see you Saturday and say something like

hey, I heard you on that one podcast As opposed

to the others as opposed to the others. Nobody

listens to the others. All right Well, that's

it for this week We will see you guys next Wednesday

at about 830 and hopefully it won't go for an

hour and a half and hopefully we'll have done

the the giant Yeah, you say can you say bye you

say bye No? You don't really care about anybody?

I just like your face. Alright. Alright, and

we're done. Thanks guys for watching. Bye!