WWE Backlash 2018 Review

What is backlash? A reaction? A consequence?

Is it retaliation? Maybe. But tonight, backlash

is far more. It's a rivalry renewed. I'll be

waiting at backlash to put the big dog to sleep.

Believe that I will not be disrespected. I'm

not leaving my ring. Nia's the bully here. Nia

just loves to throw her weight around. Alexa

Bliss represents everybody who's trying to keep

me down. I will win back my Raw Women's Championship.

A consequential return. Daniel Bryan! I get clear,

guess who also gets clear? I am living in the

shadow of that little man. Reclaiming one's legacy.

I'm here! I see Charlotte Blair! I took my rightful

spot at the top of a women's division! It is

much harder to stay on top than to get to the

top. And you have something of mine. And personal

retribution. tonight. Witness the best of both

worlds. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the

podcast arena. Coming to the ring at this time.

Hello and welcome to Mayhem Mikes. This is episode

38. I am of course TFG1Mike. Joining me is Ryan

the Unevenflow Merkley. Hello, sir. Yay, backlash.

Last week we were depressed for a really good

reason, because of the life and times that were

Andre the Giant. This week we're gonna be depressed

for all the bad reasons, because... At least

there was happiness in the Andre the Giant documentary,

though, and he touched a lot of people. Exactly,

yeah! He was a good person. So, yeah. So, backlash.

I did not watch the pre -show. I did not watch

the after -show. I watched the pre -show, I sure

as hell didn't watch the after -show. And just

as a note to preface this, we've mentioned it

a few times, I read the stuff online, you don't.

I really think you do it right, by the way, but

that's another story. So anyway, I watched Backlash

and I wanted to... disagree with a lot of the

Opinions online which were pretty negative and

hard on the show or so I thought and I kept thinking

about it more and more and I eventually realized

I didn't really I wasn't really entertained I

Was entertained at certain points, but there

are certain things in this that it's not necessarily

the Sports part of it. It's the entertainment

part of it that there's just a couple of things

that I am just absolutely disgusted with or think

has have gone on way too long or I think WWE

did the wrong thing with the way they want to

Send out a certain message And we'll get into

it as we as we get to to that match you already

know this because I've told you off -air in our

mayhem mics group on Facebook, but Yeah So the

pre -show I did watch and Really the talking

stuff is how much can you chat about the matches

that again? I like the best. When wrestling's

at its best, there is a suspension of disbelief

and you forget that it's scripted and that sort

of thing. When it's not and you have an hour

of people talking about it. Oh, God, it is boring.

So the only notable thing was Bailey versus Ruby

Riot, and it was actually a pretty good match.

Ruby Riot's very good and can be entertaining,

but we've seen this match a number of times before,

so eh. So then we get to Backlash. It opens with

the absolute best part of the show, which was

a really good match between Miz and Seth Rollins

and Miz is very underrated but alternatively

Seth Rollins it seems especially lately could

have an amazing match with a broomstick Yeah,

you could so when I was talking about things

that entertained me. This is one of the few There's

another one later on we'll get to but I enjoyed

this match I actually felt pretty good about

the pay -per -view at this point alas it would

be all downhill from here but yeah But it was

good and I I like these two they work together

really well Seth seems to have kind of found

himself a little he yeah He is really like his

maybe even more than remember when he had the

belt on him And I remember you didn't like him

and he was cut the cowardly heel Yeah, he kind

of he kind of did the same thing each week, even

though he was entertaining on it, but he seems

to be He's mixing it up more now. He seems to

be an enjoying himself. He's enjoying himself

He's probably in the best shape of his life besides

his knee obviously He is not Let's face it. This

isn't two heels going against each other. This

is The way I characterize this version of Seth

is he's not John Cena but he's like a cross between

John Cena and CM Punk where he's It's it's kind

of like how I used to say Dean was Dean was never

a face or a heel Dean was that in -between Character

where he would go against authority like if you're

you know having a team that's facing Stephanie

and Triple H Dean or now Seth at this point would

be on that team going against the authority or

whatever. Obviously the Miz is a heel these days

and the Miz is great at being a heel because

that's what he loves to do and the two of them,

we've said this before in the last three years,

how many times can they put the Miz and Seth

Rollins up against each other and we not get

tired of it? Because we were getting, I was getting

really tired of it after a while, a couple of

years ago. This match was by far the best match

either one of them ever put on with each other.

I'd argue since then the two of them seem to

have rejuvenated. Yeah, themselves. Exactly.

Seems way more motivated. And he's he's been

a solid bad guy dastardly cowards for quite some

time. And now he's on his own again. No more

Mr. Raj. Yeah, but it's yeah. He's another guy,

I think, like Rollins. He seems to be. out there

having fun, and it works for him. Yep. Absolutely.

I love this match. I thought this was one of

the best matches of the night. The fact that

both of them kept kicking out, and by the almost

close to the end of it, where Michael Cole pretty

much loses his voice where he's like, Rollins

kicks out! Like, he basically, he's so excited

for Rollins about the kick out at that last possible

moment that he pretty much loses his voice uh...

obviously ron's wins here yeah and there was

the legitimate chance that ron's could have lost

it to the ending wasn't in doubt unlike some

of our matches later on uh... and i think it

just it made for a fun exciting match in a really

good opener absolutely Too bad the momentum would

not continue as we jump into Alexa versus Naya.

I've been pretty open to like both of these two.

But all right. So first on the match, they had

absolutely no chemistry that night. Whoever structured

the match as Naya, who is what, a foot and a

half? Taller than than Alexa. Yeah and infinitely

stronger and Has the reach weight strength every

single advantage Whoever decided that oh, yeah,

she should be the one who's got to come from

behind the whole match is Not smart this it was

dumb. They have they had no chemistry whatsoever.

It's made them I like Jax, but I don't think

she can work as well with somebody who's not

a veteran seemingly and I heard her you could

you could hear her Asking Alexa. What are you

doing a couple times? So the match itself was

not good And then I'm sure you want to talk and

Nia Jax wins and keeps the belt which was not

real surprising but whatever yeah, and I'm sure

you want to talk about the terrific post match

Post match Like yeah, no what I want to talk

about is how WWE is trying to do this anti -bullying

thing The whole storyline post match. That's

it. Yeah. Yeah with charlie yeah well uh... i

think it was charlie one uh... i don't know if

it was it was renee probably oh geez yes sir

it was renee whoops i'd i'd i'd know the difference

between charlie caruso and renee young obviously

one's a blonde one's a brunette but like there

are times where any of the w w e people at times

can be interchangeable Especially them like I'm

sorry you Renee is definitely not one of them

because she's right. Yeah. She is very very good

I really wish they'd give her I know she had

a rough time the first time on commentary But

look at all the wrestlers who have had a tough

time their first time on commentary. I'd be awful

at it obviously you get better over time and

Wish they give her another chance because she

knows her stuff and she's really good at anyway.

We're getting real Yeah, so the problem here

is I have not liked this the whole build -up

to this the whole thing is oh because Naya is

bigger Naya is this Naya is the bully and Alexa's

this Crybaby little girl that has been picked

on that has been this. Yeah, that's how Alexa

is trying to pull right I know I don't this is

what I'm saying I think WWE is doing this incorrectly

because it just the storyline just it kills me

to watch any of Alexa's statements I think it

would have been fine the issue is that the finish

should have been Nia kicks the crap out of Alexa

just dominates the match which realistically

as well she should because she's got like I said

extra foot and a half and whatever weight everything

else on her and That's the end of it. She crushes

the bully everyone can feel good That's how it

should have been done. You don't have it where

the bully Essentially dominates three -quarters

of the match. Yeah against a much larger stronger

everything else target And she just ekes out

a win somehow in not particularly convincing

fashion. It didn't make any sense. And oh boy,

we'll get to that a little later as well. Maybe

don't have your superstars who look like they

could beat the crap out of pretty much all of

us on the street be the ones who get beat up

for 90 % of the match against people who look

roughly the same as us on the street. but whatever

the promo after it was bad I mean they tried

to beat it into our heads yeah and that's what

I don't like about it it's not necessarily what

Alexa and Naya are doing it's the way that it's

the way that WWE creative gave them I don't blame

them for this I don't blame them for what side

they're on like Naya is supposed to be portrayed

as the bully Alexa is supposed to be portrayed

as the one being bullied I understand that but

it's WWE creative should have been a lot more

creative with this than doing it the way they

did it. So we got a who care I'm not even gonna

talk about that actually no I will talk about

the promo just to say that we got a Samoa Joe

promo about rains here Joe is Amazing at making

you want to see a match his promos the last couple

weeks on Roman Have been quite good. Yes Sadly,

whatever we'll get to that later Randy Orton

versus Jeff Hardy Hey, we were just talking about

a match that for some reason didn't click. Let's

have another one. Yeah like Okay Who can Jeff

face? That it would make a really great chat

US championship match I Don't I don't have to

be on smackdown and probably yeah Okay, because

I don't think it's gonna be Randy cuz no like

you like you've said before You can clearly tell

when Randy is not interested in he'll go through

the motions of doing the stuff, but You get a

few face shot angles on him, and he's not smiling

He's not having any like the most fun. I've seen

Randy have in the last month is The segment that

they had that they had done where he's just laughing

That's the most fun I've seen Randy have in the

last month or so. I don't know. They just didn't

click. And it's been a couple matches in a row

now because Jeff had the, we talked about it

before, Jeff had the match against Jinder that

didn't click. And Jinder is, Jinder's capable

of some pretty solid matches, but overall...

Don't think anybody would say he's a better worker

than Orton is but something just didn't mesh

with the two of them part of it too is The commentary

was god -awful that night and To me the worst

of it was encompassed by What the hell was the

name of it? The oh the hearty a ca rest Is what

they named one of Jeff's moves. Oh God, that's

awful. That is so bad Oh fire whoever came up

with it. I hope it wasn't graves No, no, no,

it was they were presumably told to call it that

it just yeah Even Corey was not great on this.

They'd keep they kept talking about champions

advantage in every single match We get it. We

get it already. It's not a it's not a no DQ.

It's not no It's none of this. It's not like

we understand its champions advantage If that

was the case all of the champions should have

just walked out of every friggin match So you're

probably not gonna agree with me on this one

Mm -hmm, but when we're talking about the few

areas that entertained me The next segment was

one of them. Yeah which is the Elias, then New

Day, then Rusev Day. then conga line containing

first no way Jose then poof we got Fandango Titus

Tyler Breeze Apollo Cruz pretty much everybody

pretty much everybody hey as long as Titus doesn't

you know trip and fall again I'm good it was

funny one time and then he gets jumped by rude

but yeah I'm gonna say what made this for me

and there are two things I absolutely loved in

this One is, Elias' facial expression, each time

he got interrupted, he just gets more and more

exasperated. I really like that. I also think

it's the measure of somebody who is good at promoting

themselves. and getting the crowd invested when

someone like Elias, who, for example, he got

the crowds to either boo or cheer just based

on which way he turned. Yeah, that's impressive.

That's very impressive. Yeah, I don't I'm not

that big of a fan of Elias, but I really dug

this segment and. I think I'm not fully coming

around to the new day but I'm kind of because

they've given up on the bootio thing and they're

doing the flapjack thing they're doing the pancake

thing now and that's fine I don't care but it's

one of those things where I think Xavier has

become his character not him himself because

he's an awesome guy in general his character

has become Less annoying and if you notice not

necessarily how much weight he's his physical

his physical appearance has changed so much since

the new day premiered because He used to hardly

ever get matches now. He's being tagged in he's

actually doing some moves He's not doing a lot

because let's face it. It's Kofi and big boys

He's had two singles matches in a row now, and

he's been fantastic exactly yeah and yeah when

they actually let him go he's very good exactly

and then the big one i want to highlight out

of everybody oh excuse me uh who uh don't drink

and podcast folks who the big one i want to highlight

though who they just absolutely don't seem to

know what to do with this poor rusev but thankfully

just on yeah as we record this on smackdown They

finally gave him something to do. We got a match

with daniel bryant qualify for money in the bank

and they let him win cleanly And he's a guy who's

been cheered forever But they just don't seem

to want to do anything with the poor guy And

they had no spot for him on this pay -per -view

except for this segment, so it was very odd and

speaking of daniel bryan yeah daniel bryan versus

big cas um okay how does cas get a match against

daniel well we know why it's his first match

well yes but also i really think this was kind

of cas's shot at The big time if he could look

good and have a good match with a guy who could

have a good match with me He that would be proof

that maybe they can elevate him Alas he could

not have a good match and Cass debuted slash

showed off about Four moves in this and Brian

Kind of dominated an awful lot of the match Yeah,

he did and he won cleanly and of course after

the match we get Cass attacking him which is

a sign that oh boy This is gonna continue wonderful

and you were talking About who could have a great

match with Jeff Hardy and would mix it up with

him Dan O 'Brien and Jeff Hardy be a blast. Oh

that would be so fun to watch Yeah, that would

be so good I don't know why they I hope they

do that. I don't think they are but I hope they

do. Nah, let's just have them fight Cass every

week. No, oh my god, no, just no. Hey, at least

their match wasn't them trading hitting themselves

in the balls. Speaking of breaking balls though,

next we had Charlotte Flair versus Carmella.

Continuing our, hey let's stick two people together

who can't mesh. sure Carmel is great as a character

but has not exactly gotten the whole wrestling

thing down yet yeah like I'm really starting

to like her character I'm not gonna say I love

her character I'm starting to like it because

let's face it Ellsworth isn't there anymore and

I like the screaming stuff she does I think it

fits the character and it's a good way to kind

of do something in those holds. And this match

was constructed to kind of cover up the fact

that she's still learning. And she's definitely

gotten better, but this still wasn't a great

match. And I should note, none of these last

few matches we've mentioned, with the exception

of anytime Daniel Bryan does anything, because

he's Daniel Bryan, The crowd was asleep through

most of this. Yeah, I can't blame them too much

because there wasn't a lot to cheer, but. And

then after the next match, I mean, the crowd

was just pissed off, which I can't blame them

for. So, yeah, Carmela won, which was a little

surprising to me. Yeah, yeah, but. I think they

have to do something with her like okay, so she

still has the championship obviously the women's

championship for smackdown live They have to

do something with her against like it has to

be like Oscar or Peyton and Billy or something

it has to be yeah, so I haven't even figured

out how to get her back on TV pretty much since

WrestleMania Set a couple tag matches and that's

been it yeah it sucks yeah see that's the thing

like for Carmela to lose the belt whenever she's

gonna lose it They've got to figure out something

besides rematch after rematch with Charlotte

like I love Charlotte flair I think Charlotte's

a great champion when she is champion But as

we've already said this goes along the lines

of doing things too long Like I get it one two

three, you know first match second match from

third match rubber match to figure out who really

gets You know the best of three here, but it

needs to be like, you know in order uh... i think

only is where is ember is ember on our smackdown

embers on our own shit cuz that would have that

would be great yeah i think also is going to

be should be the one who takes it off of carmela

that maybe she which by the way i would have

carmel cheats to win this one but whatever uh...

the out of carmela kind of cheat and then she

has to wrestle oscars oscars just Buzz saw and

tears right through her because she you know

can't figure out a way to to cheat against her

That sort of thing that might be the story they

go for but she didn't really cheat in this and

Kind of won cleanly which was surprising Yeah,

and then there was the balls match and to be

fair to this one Actually thought this was their

best match together up until that ending it was

pretty good And I liked the story they were telling

with AJ's just had enough and he stoops to that

level The problem is then they don't end it They

end it the stupidest way possible Yeah, the laziest

way possible And we get yet another match between

them that amounts to nothing and is just gonna

result in yet another match Yep, what was the

point of it then these two are really good, but

the story they're telling with them is terrible.

Yeah, and it's disappointing because Nakamura

is doing some of the most entertaining work.

I love his whole He speaks English when it's

convenient for him essentially now. Yeah like

that and he's he's doing putting in great character

work and AJ Styles is AJ Styles but then they

ruin it with these constant non finishes and

this I mean the two of them kicking each other

in the gonads at the same time I'm not gonna

lie it led to some pretty hilarious gifts but

As somebody that watches this It's bad it's really

bad Nothing to me is worse than watching something

Whatever it is watching any TV show watching

a movie reading a comic book Whatever and at

the end you feel like you just wasted your time.

Yeah It like it just didn't go anywhere and there

was no point you just sat there for nothing That's

pretty much this match and who the fans weren't

happy Not to mention why is the title match not

the headliner on the card we still two matches

left Yeah, really like come on people So after

that we had Ron and Bobby versus KO and Zayn

Okay, so I said earlier that my favorite match

so far of the night was Miz versus Rollins And

I still say that is one of my favorite matches.

This was awesome Really? I did enjoy this. I

love this. I thought this was cool as hell. I

was So I was disappointed for a few reasons,

but the main one is just The crowd can make or

break a match and the crowd wasn't into this

after the piece of crap match beforehand and

then they throw this in the bathroom break segment

and I didn't like that They couldn't even get

the crowd invested enough to cheer Braun when

he came in remember the huge cheer Braun got

the Monday before yeah when he got the tag in

and Got to dominate this one. There was just

kind of nothing Yeah, I just my thing is it was

too similar to some of the other matches these

guys have worked together and The crowd was asleep.

I guess maybe that's my biggest issue i don't

feel like it necessarily that the match necessarily

went anywhere either did anything for anybody

i mean brawn should be near the top of the card

having them in these tag matches in the bathroom

break is not a good idea no it's not but i still

enjoyed it because it's like who are we going

to get to face kayo and zane this week oh Let's

get two of, if not the two biggest guys to face

them. You know, like putting Braun Strowman and

Bobby Lashley together, I think was a stroke

of genius. Are Braun Strowman and Bobby Lashley

going to be a new tag team? Oh, hell no. But

because they're both singles competitors and

like we already saw with the whole tag team championship

thing for Braun, like Braun's not out for tag.

bron needs to be going up against you know a

certain person that uh... bron will be able to

just destroy him before you get any f five off

i think bron should be in matches with yet brock

joe reynes whoever who was near the top or thrown

against seth i think that would be really solid

match and just Don't know find something more

for him. I guess maybe that's why I felt this

match was just kind of nothing for everybody

but if you enjoyed it then Go for it. Maybe I'm

just hurting because of what came next Yeah This

was not good so Samoa Joe versus Roman Reigns

First the first thing I'll just say flat out.

This was not a good match No, two of them for

some reason who they've had good matches to against

each other Roman in fact has Had many good and

very good main event matches but unfortunately

now he's strung two not good ones together in

a row and Holy cow did the fans hate this to

the point that they started leaving and If you

watch this again, you'll notice the WWE stops

you doing crowd shots. It got apparently got

so bad and the fans were chanting for everything

but this match. They booed like crazy at the

end. The end of the the end of the match was

terrible, too, because I kind of feel bad for

Joe. Joe gets to do pretty much everything, dominate

the entire match. Roman hits a spear. It's over.

and I'd say the same thing and this is no offense

to Joe who by the way could kick the living crap

out of me with both arms tied behind his back

and both legs but Roman's not a guy who should

be in trouble for the entire match I think I

said this last week too yeah you did it's ridiculous

that they keep trying to cast him as this Daniel

Bryan character he's not Daniel Bryan He's more

brawn than Daniel Quiet have him beat people

up and people will like him because that's what

he looks like he should be doing Yeah, stop trying

to cast him as the stop trying to cast the guy

who could kick the snot out of me with one finger

as The guy who gets beat up every week No that's

not how it works yeah that shouldn't be how it

works at all like it's the equivalent of if going

well this might be a bad example concerning what

he's been up to lately but hey if ufc every time

connor mcgregor went out they cast him like oh

mcgregor has no chance in this flight he's is

a bum he's gonna get dominated the whole time

really no i don't think so yeah This was bad

and there's something wrong too with having Roman

without a title headline all these pay -per -views

obviously WrestleMania involved the title, but

I Think the fans have just are just sick of it

too that he's not an underdog stop trying to

do that It's not entertaining he's more than

talented enough To have a good back and forth

match. He's done it a number of times There's

a reason that okay fine still people got tired

of Cena eventually But for years he put on great

back and forth matches in a main event I think

people got tired of him because he main evented

everything forever and They got tired of him

when he won matches. He shouldn't have ie when

he beat three members of the Nexus single -handedly

When it gets I said it before when you can believe

and suspend disbelief wrestling is fun And enjoyable

when something like this happens where first

of all, nobody thought Joe was gonna win. There

was no chance of it. I Like Joe I wish I could

have said but There was no way WWE were gonna

let Roman Reigns lose two matches in a row. Yeah

So there was no way He was gonna win and At no

point could I suspend disbelief of that? It just

wasn't fun and this wasn't a good match And Roman

is not a good character right now, which makes

me really sad because he deserves way better

than this because he does put on very good match

and entertaining matches and is a talented performer

whether you like him or not you can't look at

the guy or watch the guy and say yeah there's

no talent yeah and you know i've seen the crowd

cheer him recently oh yeah like i don't think

it's his character i just think that it's bad

writing it's the same thing with the jacks bliss

thing yeah they almost feel like the same issues

that it's not good writing and they try to hammer

the wrong points home to us yeah um backlash

backlash uh i liked maybe two out of the Number

of matches. I like the Seth match and I like

what was it that I said? I just said this and

how the hell this is how bad this pay -per -view

was Yeah, you enjoyed Owen Zane. Oh, it's a yeah,

but Bobby and Brian Yeah, other than those two

the rest of it is just all over the place and

the storytelling is so god -awful It needs to

get better. I Don't know what meaning no, I said

before I I sure I really wanted to For some reason

be contrarian and stick up for this and then

I sat down and the more I thought about it. I

just didn't have fun watching this I tried really

hard to remember at what points I sat there and

I was watching a match and I kind of got lost

in it and It happened really once with a match

Yeah Um Backlash Two and a half out of five.

Oh wow, that's really generous Well, like I said

the two matches that I liked okay, so two and

a half out of five I Feel terrible for this but

and I don't like sitting and agreeing with the

internet But man I have I'm going one out of

five and I think that's the lowest I'll ever

go and i feel bad because obviously everybody

on all these cards tries really hard they're

fantastic at what they do yes it's not about

what they're doing it's about that this is a

great view is not about the physicality of the

match things lately that have been done on monday

night ron and uh... almost a tuesday night smackdown

smackdown live where like a move was done into

somebody landed wrong or somebody did this and

that that i could see but this is solely the

our ratings here are solely because the stories

were just handled the movie was wrong was the

pen hitting the paper uh... And folks, if you

want to know what our GCRN 0 -5 rating scale

is, I will have the link in the show notes, so

you can go to that and you can look and see why

we rate them 0 -5. We do use half points, but

you can see descriptors of what each of the ratings

mean. Monday Night Raw and SmackDown Live after

the Factor Backlash. They're not great either

no, I I just the the open was not fun where Kurt

comes out somebody interrupts him in this case

it's Kevin and it leads to a match which we've

seen a million times before right and The yeah,

it was a qualifier for money in the bank brawn

wins, which not surprising and right move obviously

but it just wasn't a bad opening though but from

there I just what was I don't know what was difficult

just wasn't a lot it's kind of like backlash

there wasn't a lot I found super entertaining

see what what they're doing is at least on raw

i'll talk about smackdown in a minute what i

think they're doing on raw is they've realized

that backlash was bad and they're basically just

like okay let's get ready for money in the bank

at the end of the month or whenever money in

the bank and i don't have the date in front of

me off the top of my head like let's just start

getting ready for money in the bank let's do

that and i i've been enjoying the qualifying

matches for that so that's okay And the main

event wasn't bad, although everybody and their

brother knew Sammy was the one who was going

to get pinned in that. Yeah. Because you know

who wasn't going to get pinned. Oh, no. Finn

is I like the fact that hopefully this will result

in Finn actually finding some direction. But

I thought Smackdown was a little tighter, although

maybe that's the the time difference, too. Right.

Yeah, I've always ever since Shane took over

I have felt that smackdown was on a very steep

incline of Going up whereas smackdown Ten years

ago was on a very steep decline There are smackdowns

where I just don't care and I end up fast -forwarding

through certain matches Like pretty much anything

that Baron Corbin does because he's another one

that they just don't know what to do with Like

I get his character is fine. It's not his character.

It's not his ability. It's They don't have anything

for like they don't have anything that's going

to bring me in To his side or to whomever's side

that he's facing or what like, you know, you

put get Baron Corbin up against John Cena Well,

I'm gonna pick John Cena every time because I've

been following the guy for 17 years Kind of a

thing, but like that would be a good direction

for him. Yeah, really up -and -comer in Corbin

essentially and Have him it's the old guards

the guy who has been there etc. Etc Yeah, I don't

think there'd be any Thing wrong with that. That

would be some direction but throwing him in with

no way Jose who's just new It's just sort of

a random pairing. What's it do for each guy?

I mean, okay fine Corbin wins He picks up some

wins that sort of thing But Jose hasn't been

there long enough. So it doesn't make him look

really good. He just beat a rookie basically

and Opposite side. I mean Jose comes in and he

loses. Well, how good can he be? Yeah You'll

have to tell me cuz I I don't know how good it

was Jose in NXT or 205 or wherever I think he

came from NXT like uh Is not very good. I assume

knowing let's be honest certain gimmicks certain

Personas mm -hmm have a ceiling yeah Santino

Marella for example was funny Yeah, he was a

funny character, but was he ever Again, no, you

know were they ever gonna put the world title

on him and have him walking around with it as

that character Oh, no, probably not probably

not, you know, so it's the same sort of thing

with Jose that his ceiling is Maybe someday he

can get The Intercontinental belt or something

like that, but it's yeah gonna be a while. He's

not a It's not something that people are gonna

Tune in just to see him in that current persona,

and he doesn't talk much So there's limitations

with it. Yeah, I don't know wasn't Fandango.

I don't think it was breeze Who was it in the

last it has been it's been in the last three

or four years Since we at least started the show

the podcast here Who was it that used to come

out with a mob like that? Oh, you're thinking

of Adam Rose. Yes. That's exactly what they're

trying to replicate. Oh yeah, he's Adam Rose

2 .0. Yeah. And I honestly don't mind it because

I kind of like the song No Way Hoes. I just,

I don't know why, but yeah, he's pretty much

one of those things where it's like an attraction.

Yeah, you need comedy guys. You need attractions.

I'm you also need guys to win and lose. Yep.

It's just the way things are. And now would you?

Oh, good. Would you say that currently the ratio

between the attractions that both shows have

and the fact that they're actually counting wins

and losses again, you think that's even or do

you think it's skewed either way? I don't know.

I have some. I have some issues with the wins

and loss thing. I realized that the bad guys,

the dastardly heels, et cetera, et cetera, lose

more often. But what was I think it was last

year, for example, Owens won something like under

30 % of his matches. Oh, wow. That seems excessively

low. Yeah, you want you want your bad guys to

seem like they can win, if not by outsmarting,

by the fact that at very least Owens is a great

example. His moves are pretty much all high impact

moves. They all look like they would really hurt.

Like a power bomb doesn't look like it'd be fun.

No. He and he's a big big dude and he does stuff

like a Swanton off the top rope or a moonsault

He does these crazy high -impact moves. He should

win once in a while simply because physically

he He doesn't look like a Seth Rollins, but man,

he looks like he could hurt you. Yeah, and So

stuff like that should count towards something.

He shouldn't always have to cheat to win and

just slide in at the last second and you know

poke somebody in the eye that sort of thing so

i have an issue with that because i used owens

as an example but they do use it and they do

it to everybody i saw i'm trying to think you

know when's the last pure who's the last pure

bad guy who just kind of tore up the roster up

and down And does brawn count because people

started cheering see I don't think brawn counts

because he like Also, every time they put anybody

against Roman they get cheered. Well, yeah I

don't think brawn counts as a bad guy because

brawn just like he definitely doesn't now No,

and okay. Yeah, what he first was with the Wyatt

family Yeah, sure fine. There's a Wyatt family

were the monsters and the set the other thing

but brawn didn't do much no he didn't be like

a character or no he wasn't anything like that

so there was no yeah exactly there were brown

was there to be the physical specimen that he

is that's what he was there for he was not there

to court all want competition tonight you know

my god that was creepy uh... you know He wasn't

there for that then he's there for that now and

I don't I don't think I obviously I don't think

we can classify him as a heel or a face He's

another one of those in -betweeners like he could

go either way. I like what they're doing with

him I don't want them to stop I think they have

the right direction for him where he'll basically

go up against anybody it does Look what he did

with the tag team division like for the half

a second that he was there obviously he because

he's not gonna have you can't make a tit there's

nobody there okay there may be one person besides

Bobby Lashley there's one person that if you

wanted to tweak bronze character just a little

bit you could do Maybe a Braun Rusev thing if

Rusev wasn't so big into his own holiday thing

right now Yeah, Rusev seems to just be having

fun. I just feel like with Braun everything they

do with him that's not in the main event Just

feels kind of like a pointless holding pattern.

The guy might be the most popular guy on the

roster right now he's certainly top five easily

and you can't find a place for him at the top

of the card at all seemingly to me that's a mistake

he he's gonna get cheered like crazy in that

ladder match at money in the bank oh yeah pretty

much no matter who else is in there see here's

the thing that's i think the direction that they're

going with him i think i don't know at least

i hope they have i i hope they i hope they I

hope he wins, because here's the thing. What

championship do you think he would go after other

than, obviously, Brock? I think it would be fun

to have maybe a question of who he goes after,

because I feel like the logical direction on

the other show is eventually to have Stiles versus

Joe, or maybe Nakamura versus Joe. And then maybe

you could tease Braun versus Joe, which I think

would be a really entertaining match. That would

be an amazing match. By two big guys who are

ridiculously agile. Stuff like that I think has

potential, which of course means that Big Cass

is going to win. So what's gonna what's gonna

like I get it Sina is full -on part -time at

this point, but what's gonna happen? Are they

gonna let him break the record? Are they gonna

find a way to write a chance to talk about that

at all? Oh, yeah, cuz cuz seemingly no, I don't

know. Yeah like I'm happy that he tied Rick's

record uh... i don't think the timing of it was

right but i'm happy that he did is that time

when he did rick was almost dead because there

is that hospital scare for rick where he was

in really, really bad shape. Rick seems to be

doing great now. He and Vince and everybody else

just recorded new lines for season two of Camp

WWE. Maybe he just saves time. It feels a little

weird to get him up there just to have him tie

the record for good. And then lose it for whatever

reason. And this isn't about... Comparing the

two of them. Oh, no, no, no or comparing their

eras or anything like that It just let's be honest

though and no disrespect to Rick Flair meant

who's one of the greatest if not the greatest

of all time but Cena carried WWE for a decade

or so at least I mean when they were at their

absolute lowest He's the guy that was always

there to try to bring them up and He just absolutely

was for years. He was kind of the glue that held

them together Yeah, I mean from the time he debuted

in 2002 to let's say 2012 2013 I mean he was

all in he was there all the time. He was the

one coming up with whatever Um, and that's why

you mentioned just mentioned what I wanted to

say too, which is he was always there Flair wasn't

always a WWE guy So yeah, I feel like it would

not be a slight to Ric Flair at all to let Cena

have it and they would have their guy who was

always a WWE guy never straight never wanted

to work anywhere else didn't go to TNA didn't

work for WCW you didn't Just never appeared anywhere

else. So yeah, just seems a little weird to get

him all the way up there Especially the time

you mentioned it the timing wasn't great and

how they did it wasn't all that great either

at the time So they get him up there and now

nothing? Are they gonna have him win much later?

I don't know. And I think part of the problem

though is Brock because this whole part -time

thing and Brock is an attraction, it feels like

it's starting to hold people back. They're not

gonna have seen a win off of him. They don't

have Braun in the main event. The storyline they're

telling with Roman is that he just he can't get

over that Brock Lesnar sized hump. Yeah. So now

it feels like everyone's kind of being held back

and then Brock's not even going to appear at

Money in the Bank. So the title doesn't show

up for months. For months the only title is Seth

Rollins and the Intercontinental belt Yeah, so

it's And and Brock is an attraction he's exciting

There's lots of different things you can say

about him But yeah, it feels like he's kind of

holding things back and he's definitely holding

Cena back too because again They're not gonna

have him beat him Yeah, no, it would have to

be... And so it would have to be on the other

show. Yeah, it would have to be AJ, it would

have to be Nakamura, it would have to be Joe,

it would have to be... You know what? I know

this whole thing of his personal life and Nicky

and all that. What would be really cool is if...

See, I finally came back? No... If they had him

and Brian do something with the championship

Yeah, my fear is not is that Cena would win it

and then get booed Like like if he wins it it

should be something that's celebrated no matter

who it is So I feel like it should be a bad guy.

That was why I was gonna kind of toss out the

idea of him winning it off of AJ because I feel

like there would be a subsection of fans that

would boo I think when somebody breaks the record

now hopefully the people would keep it in mind

what an amazing accomplishment that is but there

would be some people that don't and it would

kind of just be a bad look you know they definitely

shouldn't boo it by the way I mean it doesn't

oh no scripted or not Getting the belt put on

you that many times means you've done something

right with your career and you've had an amazing

career exactly Exactly that should be something

we do sometimes just try to talk about some of

the careers some of the Alzheimer's careers Like

where there's some other some you may not think

of that are some of the Alzheimer's too, but

you know flair Sina undertaker Sean Michaels

all had amazing careers and then there's some

that you may not think of off the top of your

head Like edge who've also won it all oh yeah,

it's a pull multiple times and Jericho pretty

much anybody's yeah, I completely whiffed on

Jericho like like not even like Yes, we are going

to talk about other 70s and 80s wrestlers. Like

we just talked about Andre. We'll talk about

Hulk at some point, you know, against the whole,

all of that and whatever. We just had Bruno Sammartini

pass who was... Sammartino, not Martini. Sorry,

sorry. Geez, sorry. Wow. I told you, don't drink

in podcasts, folks. even though it's not alcohol

i was gonna say who spiked your drink sorry,

yeah, oops wow alrighty then now i feel really

bad but anyway, he did just pass he's another

guy who we mentioned Andre obviously because

we just did the special we just did the special

on Andre Bruno was another guy who completely

and utterly changed wrestling Yes. It's one of

those things that I love. I don't know if they're

on the network, but I mentioned this to you before

on and off air. Remember when they used to do

the DVD specials like, Oh, the Hardy Boys, Twist

of Fate or whatever. Oh, John Cena. Like there

was one with John a couple of years ago. There's

one like the Ric Flair one that just came out

a little while ago kind of a thing. Like if that

crap was on the network, that would be great.

Yeah, I don't know why like It's a rights issue.

Yeah, they sell the rights to these to the manufacturers

essentially of the disk which is weird because

WWE does all the stuff in -house, so I'm not

sure why it's Separate there's something to do

with distribution here that I don't that I'm

not getting or not privy to and that's why but

yeah it would be great if they had more of these

things on the network they're getting better

though I mentioned it during the Andre doc that

there's a good collection of for him on the network

for example it's improving slowly but some of

them weren't great remember we mentioned I thought

the poof there's a couple of them actually I've

launched that I thought the Sino one wasn't great

and failed to really Show off all of his accomplishments

the stone cold one. I think it's dreadful Stone

cold they could definitely do way better with

Although well, I was about to say although it

would be much longer, but having said that it

should be much longer yeah, it should be and

when they inevitably bring him back and They

do one something like Hogan's should be really

long And then it would be nice if they had some

of the minor more minor well -known people like

i know jake never won a world title but you say

his name and anybody who grew up in the 80s or

maybe even now i think knows exactly who he is

yeah maybe nice if he had one or you know the

macho man's collection should be that would be

great Yeah, it's crazy to be fair and to their

credit. So you mentioned that camp WWE season

2 is out They're doing better and the network

is consistently improving They've added episodes

of Monday night heat now and they added another

batch of Raw's from the attitude era So it is

they are continuously working on it and it is

continuously improving Yeah Yeah, it is and that's

the good thing Yeah, if they had just given up

and all they were doing was adding the raws from

three years ago or something, that would be disappointing.

But no, they're actually trying to keep getting

better. They have a bunch of new seasons and

new shows and things debuting too, so it's not

same old. Nope, and that's good. So next time

I think we're going to talk about the WWE 24

on Raw 25 So I think we'll do that next time.

I'm still waiting for the 365 AJ Styles to debut

Yeah, 25 is fun though. Yeah. Yeah Cuz we covered

it actually a while ago when it happened we do

the episode of the show Right. Yeah, but now

we can do WWE 24 behind -the -scenes the show

was a little disappointing But the behind -the

-scenes is very enjoyable and it's it's fun watching

everybody have fun not to mention Everybody interact

some of the people who you never thought maybe

you'd see Hanging out together Yeah Hanging out

together. Yeah, how often did you do you expect

to see stone colds and John Cena? share a stage

or just sit stand and chat with one another yeah

really absolutely so that's coming up next on

mayhem mics after that who knows i think what

is money in the bank three weeks away yeah money

in the bank at least should be solid and hopefully

wash the taste of backlash away yeah i mean to

be fair money in the bank is generally one that

doesn't have crappy Pay -per -views backlash

has repeatedly been one that has not had good

people Yeah, some of these they should just toss

away toss out those names because apparently

they're cursed also to be fair How can you not

bring back great balls of fire if you're gonna

have shins game AJ just pound each other in the

nuts Yeah, really. I feel like that's a pay -per

-view name. They should have brought back just

for this one if they were gonna do that Maybe

would energize the crowd a little more Yeah,

let's hope because not so much now Well, hopefully

we've energized whoever listens to this so more

yeah Absolutely, so we will we're gonna be find

you online sir at night beat on Twitter Am at

TF2 and Mike on Twitter you can follow at geek

cast radio and at this we can geek for the network

Twitter's we will catch you next time and I Think

we're gonna let the glass shatter to close this

one out. See you later folks. Yes. Don't watch

backlash