Why Movie Dialogue Is Hard to Understand

Hi, this is Christy Marks, creator of Gem and

the Holograms. You're listening to the Geekcast

Radio Network. You're tuned in to Steve Megatron

on Altered Geek. Hello and welcome to... Altered

geek. I'm your host Steve Megatron and joining

me on this adventure into geekdom is TFG1 Mike.

Yes. Hello. I am here Hello. Yes so Just to preface

this episode Okay, if you're looking for a rant

you've come to the right place No, it's nothing

not geek related so don't have to get up in arms

about that, but it is an annoying trend. So what

was it? The other day I posed this post to you

and it just so happened that someone else posted

it. Someone we know, someone we've interviewed

or I've interviewed. And it was rather entertaining

because I I just, I could relate to the problem.

And in case you're wondering what that problem

is, well, it has to do with, let's call it creative

editing of movies, but not be a total jerk about

it, even though I would like to be. So here's

the thing, folks. We're just gonna let Chris

Tucker say what Steve is trying to say, and we'll

be back in a moment. Do you understand the words

that are coming out of my mouth? So yeah, folks,

Chris Tucker, we can't understand the words that

are coming out of your mouth. Yeah. So what,

again, brought this on is I was checking a post

from my old college and they had this article

from SlashFilm. And it says more or less, here's

why movie dialogue has gotten more difficult

to understand in three ways to fix it. And when

I was in film class, one of the general irritations

that I had personally was the way that we were

to edit movies or edit film or just cinematography.

And so getting onto my soapbox that I posted

on these two posts, I said this has been an issue

of not liked in particular directors or how things

are mixed at all. If I cannot hear the dialogue

or constantly have to move the volume up or down

to catch it, it makes the movie totally unenjoyable

for me. I want to hear the story in dialogue

over having amped up music or sound where I literally

cannot understand them. I do watch most modern

movies with subtitles due to this fact, but I

think it boils down to created vision. And I've

gotten to the point when I can't understand or

hear it, I shut it off. So Christopher Nolan

films are terrible for this, which makes them

totally unwatchable for a second pass for me.

Point in case bane You know in somebody else

on on the my college Class under this article

puts I literally cannot watch a movie without

subtitles because I just miss everything and

then Christy Marx actually Mm -hmm. Well, it's

the same thing which is funny because it was

right around the same time and Everybody else

below started commenting about you know Somebody

who mumbles and starts saying something way back

in the 60s and then You know somebody else was

talking about having to resort to subtitles,

you know not the best solution because they cover

a part of the picture and The sad thing is is

it's taught and it's director preferences over

anything else it's kind of like JJ Abrams with

the lens flares like Other than the fact that

he just likes lens flares And the same thing

is to be said of Christopher Nolan. He, you know,

going back, let's say, I don't know, 20 years,

this slash film article mentions the fact that

used to be able to understand 99 percent of the

dialogue in Hollywood films. But over the past

10 years or so, I would go as far as 20. He says

that I've noticed that percentage has dropped

significantly and it's not due to hearing loss.

It's it's got to the point where, you know, not

being able to parse entire lines of dialogue,

mostly because there's no subtitles. This article

mentions that he's not the only one that's had

these experiences, but reached out to several

professional sound editors, designers, and mixers,

many of whom have won Oscars for their work on

some of the biggest films. One person refused

to talk about it saying that it would be professional

suicide to address this on record another agreed

to talk but only under the condition that they

remain anonymous and some others just didn't

care and we're blunt and It's You know a lot

of mercy it's not easy to make some movie, you

know Everyone thinks you're moving levers, but

it's not like that now myself having done audio

dramas and having to mix edit audio dramas It's

not as easy as it sounds. However, there is a

balance. Like when I do sound effects, I make

sure that they're loud enough to be observed,

but they don't overshadow the dialogue. When

I do music insertion, it does not overshadow

the dialogue. The whole thing for me is I want

to hear it. And when I was in college, I edited

the movie or this short film. How I saw it like

how I I imagined it after reading the script

and how the director wanted it and I was also

the sound editor For this short film and when

the teacher got a hold of it I mean no no disrespect

to him because I didn't learn from him that I

I did get a fairly decent graphs from especially

when it comes to the fact that he taught me that

the characters are not supposed to breathe. And

it took a while for that to sink in, and it makes

a lot of sense because when you're in the dialogue,

unless it's like a purposeful, like, or something

like that, you don't want to hear them catching

their breath after each sentence or after every

few words. So I tell you how much breath I remove

from podcasts. Yes, so that being said they He

taught me that aspect which was good, but the

bad part was I had the audio I Had the music

below the audio of the the vocals and then I

had the sound effects kind of even with Kind

of in the middle between the two And then he

came in and did his Hollywood thing and it totally

threw off my mix. And so I had to just deal with

it because that was what he wanted. That again,

kind of ties into this article though, where

it says one of them is it's a purposeful choice.

Like Christopher Nolan again, the director of

Tenet and Interstellar and The Dark Knight Rises

and various other films. What's funny is I believe

Tenet bombed hard and Interstellar wasn't much

better. And The Dark Knight Rises wasn't, it

was almost panned by comparison to the previous

film on various levels. And yes, he's one of

the most successful filmmakers of this generation

and does whatever he wants with sound design.

It results in a lot of scenes where audiences

cannot understand what his characters say and

You know other filmmakers have complained about

it to him and and asked, you know why and They

say that he just kind of doesn't you know, I

don't think he cares I think he wants people

to give him bad publicity because then he can

explain his methods to everyone and then you

know People don't actually understand it I don't

know. I just it's one of those things that just

drives me bonkers when I watch something and

One of the one of the better organizations that

actually does really well with letting you hear

the dialogue Disney Yeah, when it's anything

Marvel related you can hear everything you hear

everything they say So, and then other times,

yes, it's not the directors, it's the actors

and how they decided to do, you know, the mumbly

or the breathy or, you know, type of acting.

And another ingredient that they say is part

of the problem is that sound isn't respected

enough on set. Yeah. You know one of the directors

on this article mentions that you know, if the

sound guy goes Can you get one more take from

me? They go. Nope. We're wrapping we've got to

move on to another setup and I think that's also

because of the instance where they have to pump

out so many So many TV shows and movies nowadays

because of all these streaming platforms that

are just sucking in the content Yeah And I like

how the article talks about streaming for sound,

like sound for streaming services over theatrical

and, and how the mixes are different and how

the technology works in order to get it, you

know, whatever. I am, I am not one of those people

that if it's obvious, like obviously Christopher

Nolan I was going to say what I was going to

say was what the hell is the name of the stupid

guy that plays fat man in the Nolan films Christian

Bale there you go that's what I was looking for

with the gravel that he has in his mouth and

with like I have always felt that even though

I love the Dark Knight the Dark Knight is the

loudest Music and sound effect film that I've

ever heard because the music Yes takes over and

I love the Hans Zimmer score. It's I'm a music

score guy. I that's what I am I love music and

movies and TV and video games But if I'm watching

the movie I want to as you've said earlier want

to be able to hear the dialogue at the same time

for me personally I refuse, outright refuse to

use subtitles because I don't want to read my

television. I want to watch and hear my television.

I want to hear what is on the screen. I don't

want to, and yes, now we have streaming and whatever,

and there's always been, or at least since it

was invented, there's always a rewind button.

You can be like, I'm watching this and watching

this. Hey, wait, what'd that guy say? Rewind

half a second. Oh, that's what he said. What

you talking about, Wus? But there are times in

certain films and TV shows and other things that

you can't do that because even if you do rewind

it, you still don't hear it because something

drowns out the vocal. And you don't want to,

like, you want to have a great mix of all of

the elements coming together. that make a great

entertainment product. Don't let me find you

out here again. We're trying to help you. I don't

need help. Not my diagnosis. What gives you the

right? What's the difference between you and

me? I'm not wearing hockey pads. Like I said,

it's one of those things that just... It infuriates

me when I watch something just because of the

fact that... There's no reason with the amount

of content out there that I have to sit there

and watch something that's badly mixed. I will

shut it off. I will move on to something else.

The same thing goes for something that's with

excessive profanity. I'll tolerate some. I don't

care. It's when it's like I'm just gonna do this

and you can bleep it out if you want to What

you're basically saying is you don't mind watching

profanity as long as they're not doing Blah blah

blah like they're not doing it like every other

word is a curse. Yeah one thing There's there's

for instance, there's a movie By Adam Sandler

go figure He he has one movie in particular that

it's so bad I Just as a token because my wife

used to like watching Adam Sandler movies as

did I it was a Netflix release I found a way

of getting it off of there and Wanted purely

like I was never going to keep it as it was it

ridiculous six No The do -over all the do -over.

That's right. Yeah, and it was like him and David

Spade or something Anyways, it was so bad. I

Just for fun. I decided to re -edit the entire

film. I Remember when you did this? Yeah, and

it was like two hours two and two. I don't know

somewhere somewhere in that range. Mm -hmm When

I got done it was 37 minutes because there was

also like some nudity stuff in it and I don't

I mean teach their own I don't care to watch

any of that in my films like it can be insinuated

just give me a good story good characters good

writing I I don't need to see anything like to

get the gist of it but like like I said I'll

put up with like certain profanities anyway just

like Christmas Vacation Clark Griswold You know,

yeah, like it's iconic like that. It's different.

It's yes. It's an every other word thing It's

just he's he's literally mad to the point. He

just doesn't know what to do So they're like

I said, it's a little bit different there so

and and that and in that case in Christmas vacation

in the What is so great about that is even though

he is cursing and and doing all of that In the

TV edits for it, when they go to change it, like

they switch it to... And I wanna look him straight

in the eye, and I wanna tell him what a cheap,

lying, no -good, rotten, for -flushing, lowlife,

snake -licking, dirt -eating, inbred, overstuffed,

ignorant, blood -sucking, dog -kissing, brainless,

hopeless, heartless, fat -ass, bug -eyed, stiff

-legged, spotty -lipped, worm -headed sack of

monkey -stuffed he is! Where's the Tylenol? There

ain't nothing like that line, though, in the

original film. where he does that right and i

love that ran i have that audio some important

part from his happy holidays slumber over there

and i'll be laying with all the other rich people

i want to talk right here with a big ribbon on

his head And I wanna look him straight in the

eye, and I wanna tell him what a cheap, lying,

no -good, rotten, four -flushing, low -life,

snake -licking, dirt -eating, inbred, overstuffed,

ignorant, blood -sucking, dog -kissing, brainless,

dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat -ass, bug

-eyed, stiff -legged, spotty -lipped, worm -headed

sack of monkey shit he is! Hallelujah! Holy shit!

Where's the Tylenol? Rant is great because of

the way he ends it. Holy shit. Where's the Tylenol?

And he just walks off because he has gotten you

look at that film He's gotten everything off

of his chest. This is a guy that wants to Have

the best Christmas that he can have for his family.

He wants to do everything right. He wants to

do everything for everybody And close to the

end, he comes to the realization that he can't

and he has to just explode on them. It's kind

of like when a podcaster is talking and talking

and talking and talking and talking and he is

asking you a question, but yet at the same time,

he is not letting you answer. You usually just

end up going off and just shaking and screaming

and just shut the fuck up and let me talk. You

know. The discussion needs to be about the movie

itself. Yes, there can be a source material.

Hold on. Hold on. Let me fucking finish a fucking

thought. God damn it. Oh, memories, folks. They're

great. But yeah, I mean, I don't curse words

are. They like I said, I could tolerate it as

long as it's it's got a reason. Right. If it's

every other word, stuff I come up with, hearing

people do, I can't tolerate it because it sounds

ignorant. There's a million other ways of saying

what you're trying to say. For me, they are sentence

enhancers. If we're sitting here talking and

whatever and this giant... Like never before

heard thunderclap happens, not that it's gonna

happen because even though it rains here in the

state of Washington, we get very few actual thunderstorms.

But if some loud crash were to happen as we're

recording this podcast, and I turn to look or

turn to look down or whatever and be like, holy

shit, what the hell was that? Like, that's fine,

because I'm reacting to something. if I'm describing

something and I say, that is the best damn thing,

that is the best damn piece of audio I have ever

heard and I can't wait to listen to it again.

Sentence enhancers, they should not be... Every

other word. Yeah, it should not be a thing where

every other word is a descript... Like a curse

word is a descriptor because they're supposed

to be emotional reactions Yeah Like oh fuck my

wife died a month ago. Like, you know, like that's

that's fine, you know kind of thing Um, but no,

I I yeah back to the original point though I'm

sorry Yeah, I mean they they even bring up that

a lot of it is Also brought up because of technology

with the issues with audio. Yeah Just because

everything is completely digital audio digital

cinema part of the reason with that is because

when everything was shot on film and edited with

tape It was much more laborous process and much

more technically challenging to do a whole lot

with sound design Everything had to be very conscious

choice and a very intentional soundscape that

they create since it was so cost -intensive and

labor -intensive They wanted to make sure that

the story got first across and emotion gets sorted

of directed with music and that's about it and

every pass that you do with an analog system

depletes the quality as well so you know they

they say but now that they have faster turnarounds

and much more capabilities as far as what they

can do with the sound design including playing

around with ambience and sound effects to put

a concrete reason on it is hard but a lot of

it comes down to i have this toy so i'm going

to play with it which again that brings up the

jj abrams you know lens flare Yeah garbage, but

You know, then then there's the the passive listening

or the the you know familiar listening or mixing

for cinemas or Just really anything or mixing

for streaming Yeah, you know you have various

different audio masters whether it be 7 .1 and

you know 48 kilohertz 24 -bit master audio or

or you know, whatever There's so many different

ways that they can go about it And they suggest,

you know, there's some different ways you can

fix it. Including, you know, because they say

that a lot of people just don't prioritize sound.

They know that they need to have it, but they

don't necessarily think about it very creatively.

Like, why bother? And some people just don't

understand it. It's a mystery to them. I guess

it kind of... It needs to kind of matter more

because if people are starting to get frustrated

and just not care for the artistic Work being

put into it Even though it may be a stellar and

awesome movie if you can't understand it and

it's and it it just takes you out of the whole

situation because you can't Fathom what they're

saying then maybe it's not a great choice Yeah

And you have to foot like You should not the

whole thing about visual and audio mediums is

You focus on everything and make it seamless

like you said like it needs like things should

not if you have the budget like if you're doing

a Christopher Nolan film and You had and that

film has the budget to put in the best sound

designers the best visual effects people, the

best everything, then you should be able to get

everything done in a way where it works. And

part of the problem they say in this article

too is that as a sound designer, it's like, What

can you really do? You know saying as a sound

designer? I'm not allowed enough voice, but a

director is and so basically it has to matter

to the director To listen to their people. Oh

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah Well, you know they're

saying that there are a lot of movie makers who

aren't technicians So they don't really understand

a lot of this they just like to make movies But

if we explain to them how we're not getting the

message out properly and people aren't getting

the message Maybe the artists, you know themself

will make steps to fix it which I kind of agree

but I ultimately think with the way that the

machine is set up nowadays I don't think people

care I think I think it's just going to be you're

going to get it it's it's like converting a VHS

tape to a DVD garbage in garbage out you're not

getting the original you know master it's gonna

matter. Whether you believe it or not, it's going

to matter. So if you don't work from the best

quality version, you're gonna end up with just

nothing really usable. Yeah, absolutely. And

it's just one of those things where you want

to have the best product you can, but due to

whatever monetary limitations you have or whatever.

Like, look, I still have the same, obviously

I've bought newer, I've had the same one, but

I, you know, I have a pair of headphones and

a microphone for podcasting. You know, we use

Skype or Zencaster or sometimes Discord when

it's not so overloaded, which it's overloaded

all the time now. But anyway, you know, we use

all of that to record this stuff. And then we

go and level it with level later too. And we

go into Adobe Audition and I have said this before

on this show and other shows we've done recently.

I have no life. I have all the time in the world.

Do I want to sit here for four hours going through

every second of audio for an hour and 20 minute

show? No, not really, but I do because I want

to make sure the Geekcast Radio Network has podcasts

that sound the best that I can get them to sound.

I want to make sure our talking or our silence

isn't too long or isn't broken up or doesn't

have... Yeah, that's something that drives me

bonkers. You know, it doesn't have the stops

or the... Even that and I've mentioned this to

you off air and I've mentioned it on air I just

recorded I don't know when this is coming out

versus when the geek cast radio episode is coming

out I just recorded with terry smith from music

talks podcast. We discussed and reviewed blackstone

cherries 2020 album the human condition And in

that we both say um a few times. I will cut those

out you know, I just want the best sound quality

that I can get and Do I have a giant mixer and

mixer? No, I don't and that's okay because with

the style that I have of editing and with the

way that we record stuff, it's easy enough for

me to make it sound the best that I can make

it, especially since this year I did the biggest

sound editing project I will ever do and I don't

know if I will ever do that again. But you know,

100 hours for one top 100 kind of thing. But

with it's a lot different with podcasting versus

a movie or a television show because at least

an audio podcasting because you only have the

voices and whatever. Like my chair just started

squeaking a second ago and I barely moved in

my chair. but it's one of those things where

it's in audio it's in this it's in that there

are certain things you can cut and match or get

rid of and you know go over with a clip or something

whereas in video you have to match up all of

the audio all of the video to make sure it looks

and sounds great you have to make sure the mix

of the sound between the music sound effects

and vocals that's the thing with with visual

medium having to put audio in it is, oh my god,

if those three things, the sound effects, music,

and vocals are not all matched to the point where

they don't overtake each other, you're going

to have a show, movie, whatever, then no one's

gonna wanna watch because the music is too loud

and the voices are too soft or The voices are

too loud and the sound effect of breaking glass

is too. So, you know what I mean? It all has

to come together and be mixed well and it's just

a crazy way that we live now that everything,

everything boils down to compression. Everything

gets compressed because of file sizes, because

of whatever. And sometimes you lose The best

part of the audio in that and I try my best for

us not to have that happen But man, I could not

do I bowed down to those film editors that are

editing visual with odd. Oh, man. Yeah Yeah,

it's crazy folks That it is. Yes So is that something

that bothers you? Let us know feedback at geek

cast radio comm and let us know your thoughts.

And is there something that you would like us

to cover in a future episode? Let us know on

there or let us know on social media. And we

hope you enjoyed this little rant on moviemaking

and that you'll tune in and be ready for some

more as we find some more topics to cover. Absolutely.

I actually have a few that I will suggest to

you off air because I want it to be a surprise

for the listeners. But yeah, I think that's gonna

do it for this time on Altered Geek. And I don't

really think this was a rant episode. I mean...

Not really. It was kind of creatively talking

about how it just bothers us. Yeah, I mean, for

me, how I am... Well, I'm using air quotes so

that no one can see but how I watch television

now and this is gonna kind of tie into the topic

suggestion I have for next time or the time after

whatever is that Because of my legal blindness

like I like I'm sitting here at my computer I

can perfectly see all my icons on my desktop.

I'm probably maybe Ten inches away from my monitor.

So I'm sitting straight up in my chair I have

my hands on my desk and I can see everything

perfectly fine I can read, you know Steve Megaton

Phillips on the Skype window kind of thing But

what with my vision what I can't read and what

I would have to get closer Like I would have

to lean in like I am now Transformers 10 Decepticons

you didn't know about like I can't read that

article description In the Skype window kind

of thing. So my vision is one of those things

where I end up listening To TV and movies more

than watch especially with stuff that I've already

watched Like if it's a new film to me Obviously,

I will sit here and I will watch it and I will

make sure I get all the visuals in my eye holes

But if it's something I've seen before I usually

can just listen to it because I just prefer to

do that. So for me listening to stuff makes me

pick out the things that are wrong with it or

things that I like about it. If you take the

scene in Transformers, the movie, where you have

Cup and everybody else doing the roadblock and

you have Hot Rod coming in and Dare is playing

and this is a perfect, this is a pitch perfect

mix. You have all that going on, you have the

sound effects and everything else. and you have,

as Hot Rod drives through the thing, you can

hear the crash of the wood sign, of the stop

sign, at the same time as the instrumental section

of Dare is playing. Hot Rod speeds through, you

hear that a little bit, and then it rolls over

to Cup, the music kind of cuts, and then we have

Turbo Revan Young Punk, I'll straighten out,

yeah. Yep, you can hear all of that clearly without

any overlap of any of those elements the sound

effects the music and the vote It's all mixed

to perfection so yeah TV and movies and video

games and I wouldn't necessarily say video. I

mean it depends on video games because sometimes

Sometimes video games I just turn the music off.

I don't want to hear like if I want to hear the

music to a video game I will find the the album

from the composer on Spotify or something Like

there are a lot of video games where I don't

need to hear the music of it I just want to hear

the vocals and the sound effects. So alright

folks Christmas is coming up. We got a couple

more episodes in us for this year for 2021 and

Yeah, I guess you can take us out, Steve. So,

until next time, get altered, get geeky, with

the Altered Geeks. This is the Brain, and you're

listening to the Geekcast Radio Network. Do you

understand the words that are coming out of my

mouth?