Chargebacks, Loot Boxes, and Early Internet Video

You're tuned in to Steve Megatron on Altered

Geek Hello and welcome to Altered Geek I'm your

host Steve Megatron Phillips and joining me this

week is Mike the Birdman God What's up party

people? I don't know. I've just got a lot of

energy tonight because reasons Because reasons

I like it. Hey, that's because tonight. I made

it rain I was in a I was in a Facebook chat for

one of those stores like we have this store up

in Canada called giant tiger Which is like a

discount store, but it's fairly well -known.

It's fairly big, right? So I joined their Facebook

chat and they're like we're giving out $10, $50

gift cards and two $250 gift cards. So I'm thinking

I walk in this chat. All right, ladies, because

it was nothing but ladies in there. I'm like,

all right, I'm going to win. So I just started

firing off witty comments and they're asking,

what are some of your favorite holiday traditions

and stuff? So I fire out a few and uh, Then at

the end of the night like okay We're gonna announce

our winners and they go through the ten winners

and they're like blah blah blah blah and our

two grandpies winners our first winner is Michael

Dodd 250 bucks something and let's go Totally

knew that was gonna happen. No, I didn't I just

had a really good friggin feeling about it I

it's like, you know, sometimes you get those

marketing emails They're like join our Facebook

chatter enter your email address to win, right?

Mm -hmm. I just like I got a good feeling about

this I'm gonna go enters it and I won so let

that be said if there's ever a contest and it

says throw in your email address or join on Facebook

just do it because you never know like this is

like when I won my trip to Vegas I won on a random

text message from 7 -eleven so you never know

man luck is in the air the holidays are here

so uh let's go boys i'm gonna spend that money

on 250 dollars worth of cheese no you're not

she thinks that see i'm gonna buy something really

stupid i've seen people that are on twitter that

are like i have 15 000 to give away and the first

x amount of people get free money and i'm like

yeah i i somehow doubt that dude Yeah, I know

I know exactly the dude that you're talking about

but then again you never know because a friend

of mine she does this thing on twitch and she

is a a Twitch streamer and I and a guy came in

last month and dropped three grand In her chat

he gifted Three no 150 $25 tier three subscriptions

to her channel. Just for streaming. And she's

like, holy shit. And we're like, oh my God, is

this guy for real? Yeah, he is. And he'll drop

in from time to time just to say hi. So I know

there's another dude on Twitch. I think his name

is MrBeast. We'll just drop in, drop a few grand

if he likes you. He's like, all right, well,

I've done my good deed for the day. And off into

the night he goes. So, yeah, you never know,

man. Right place, right time. Yeah, it makes

me want to sometimes go investigate that and

go, OK, so give me free stuff. You know what?

You know where's the best place to win free stuff?

And here is a pro tip, Facebook. Because everybody

wants you to go like, share their page, and tag

a few people. Just do it. I've won. pizzas, I've

won gift cards, I've won a home security system.

I've won like easily probably about three grand

worth of shit from Facebook. I remember years

ago on Twitter, I won a couple of flash drives

from HP just because I was like the X number

of person that managed to guess a particular

question that they asked. at the right time.

And then they were like, hey, you win. And I

was like, yay, free stuff. I think the most I've

won on Twitter is I think I've won probably a

couple thousand dollars worth of gift cards over

like 10 years. Because I do a lot of those contests.

Like there's one person in Canada, I forget what

her specific Twitter handle is, but she does

a lot of PR and marketing. And she's always like,

over the course of one hour, they're going to

do this Twitter chat. And it's always for a big

company or a movie or some other thing. And they'll

have you answer a bunch of questions. And I'll

just answer generically or things that I think

genuinely are interesting. And usually, if there's

not too many people in the chat, I'll win. And

I'm actually surprised I'm not blacklisted. But

but yeah, like seriously when it comes to online

contests if you know, they're reputable Just

do it. You have nothing to lose but five seconds

of your time Yeah, I I I I kind of get it like

it at times there's there's the opportunity where

you could possibly Maybe for sure win something

and then there's times where you're like is this

for real? Yeah, like it's so strange because

the the amount of people who enter versus the

amount of people that don't is so skewed Like

there have been contests where I know the prize

is worth like a couple thousand dollars and they'll

have less than 30 entries Because people assume

that other people have entered the contest so

they just don't bother like right now There's

a there's a contest. I just entered today. It's

for a radio station Hmm. Okay, I'm going to leave

certain details out of this thing, but I've won

a couple of Xboxes through Doritos and not and

it's because A couple of years ago. They used

to have this thing where You could enter codes

from the back of the bag Okay, and That's how

I want. I just entered a shit ton of these codes

every day for like two weeks. And one day I got

a call from Doritos slash PepsiCo. They're like,

are you Mike Dodd? I'm thinking, oh shit, here

it comes. They finally, they've caught onto my

clever scheme. And they're like, hey, you just

won on Xbox. And I'm like, holy shit, really?

They're like, yeah, here, answer this skill testing

question. and I'm really terrible at math so

Blair happened to be home this one day so I'm

like hold on let me get a pad a pad and paper

I'm going to read the question back as you read

it to me to make sure that I understand it so

me and Blair are both doing the math question

at the same time and she's a teacher so she has

to know her math so I'm thinking all right cool

I got my answer and I'm like is the answer X

and they're like yes it is you win you win a

stupid thing um And that's how I got one of my

two Xboxes. I'm hoping to pull the same thing

when it comes to PS4s, but I think they've changed

how a lot of the contest works. I've won a bunch

of like little things like stickers, clothes,

stuff like that. And obviously being a chunky,

dunkey person, a lot of the clothes just don't

fit. Right now I'm going for a contest for a

Nintendo switch and if I win it I'm gonna send

it to a friend of mine because she's like I really

want to switch I'm thinking well, I already have

a switch and I don't care so If I win happy birthday,

these are birthdays in January anyhow, so But

still That's enough of a humble brag for one

day I'm so sorry folks But I was just really

hype and just want more people to share the wealth

if you can enter contest just do it Yeah, it's

it's definitely something you should try at least

you know Yeah, because what do you have to lose

but just a couple of seconds of time? as long

as it's a couple of seconds if you're sitting

there filling out a then that it's not worth

it. Actually, those ones depends. And once again,

play math. Think about the amount of people that

are actually going to fill out those those surveys

versus the people that don't. You compete against

a very small but dedicated pool, but a very small

pool. I want a tablet. Actually, that's how I

won my iPad a couple of years ago. I won it from

doing a phone survey. And then in August of this

past year, I'm filling out a survey at a grocery

store. That's how I got my little Android tablet.

So if you're willing to spend time filling out

those giant surveys, sometimes it pays off, but

I always assume you're competing against a small

but dedicated crowd. But if it's an easy survey,

you may be competing against a larger pool of

people. But again, You can't win if you don't

enter it's kind of like the whole lottery thing.

You can't win if you don't play True true so

anyway So going into a lot of internet suckage

So there's there's been a few things one of them

kind of circles around YouTube in the fact that

They kind of seem to be noticing that nobody

wants to pay for their their content Anymore

well, I can't say that I'm surprised either because

as cool as content might be like say Cobra Kai

I Just I don't care enough to pay for and even

if I had YouTube premium It just means I can

close the app and have the music still playing

and it's ad free. Whoopie do. Ads don't bother

me that much. I mean, in full disclosure, I use

an ad blocker for most people. Certain channels

I don't, but for the most part I do. Yeah, I

do the same. I have an ad blocker built into

my browser that actually blocks YouTube ads and

it also blocks ads on websites. And if it's a

website I frequent a lot. Then you'll just whitelist

it. Then I whitelist it and I'm like, oh, OK,

whatever. You know, I mean, it's not a big deal.

I mean, some of them put a limit on how much

you can view it with the ad blocker because they

can see that now. But the same time, like I,

I don't know, I when I've I've listened to YouTube,

like had music on or a video playing while I'm

doing something around the house, I just leave

the screen on. It doesn't bother me. Yeah. Because

it's not worth shelling out 12 bucks a month

for me for that plus I mean you gotta I mean

Yeah, they have original content, but it's is

it really like all worth it? As opposed to something

like a Netflix or an Amazon or a Hulu at this

point in time. Mm -hmm Like some of it I Don't

know. I mean some of it seems like there is some

Netflix stuff coming up on the horizon That looks

like it might be worth paying for but as of right

now guess YouTube read or YouTube premium it

was an Experiment if anything it gathered data

and again it got them user information Which

is more valuable than probably the so many people

that were paying into the service anyway And

I know that sounds counter intuitive, but now

they have habits now. They have hard data. They

can use and sell So I don't know can't say I'm

totally surprised with it. I obviously don't

Well, they state that in 2019, they'll be making

all of their YouTube originals ad -supported

to meet the growing demand of a more global fan

base, saying that the next phase of our original

strategy will expand the audience of our original

creators and provide advertisers with content

that reaches the YouTube generation, and more

or less it's... Not that they're getting away

from the original content is that they're just

gonna make it ad supported because Why why not

I mean it's it's an extra way to get People stuff

for free, but they have to suffer through an

ad Although I'm sure that they'll still have

the pay thing we get around the ads, but it ultimately

doesn't impact me because I rarely watch YouTube

at this point in time Yeah, and and honestly

like I I watch I used to be a Netflix subscriber.

I'm not anymore. I watch Hulu And in for the

most part like I stream stuff directly from the

the TV show providers websites so I mean they're

ad supported but at the same time it doesn't

bother me because Either way, I was gonna have

to watch it if I watched it on over -the -air

cable or if I watched On their website. So like

it did ultimately doesn't impact me either way

on that because I'm not paying for it either

way. So Mm -hmm I'm curious to see how it will

affect things going forward whether their YouTube

premium shows will get less of a budget They

say ad supported. You know what? I'm cool sitting

through a 15 second ad even a 30 second ad But

anything beyond that I've seen a few people where

there are ads that are like tens of minutes long.

Now I know I cannot fathom that or understand

why somebody would would subject themselves to

that garbage. Do you remember from years ago

there was a guy on YouTube and I hope this guy

gets hit by a train. I really mean it. His name

was Tai Lopez. And he was the asshole who set

in his garage and he's talking about, look at

my Ferrari. But you know what's more important

than my Ferrari? These books. And he would go

on and on about his books and his Ferrari and

all of that. It was so frigging stupid. And then

there was this other dude. He was like, I think

he was like some Chinese guy and he was going

on and on and on about this muscle milk or something.

I think his name was Mike Chang or something.

Equally as annoying. Although I would put up,

if I could get Logan Paul money, I would seriously

put those guys in a fight. If I could have Tai

Lopez fight this Mike Chang guy, MMA style, I

would pay, that is some YouTube money I would

seriously put money on. Because these ads are

so annoying for like three years. And everybody

made like memes out of them. I think if you type

in Tai Lopez meme, on on like twitter or not

twitter on youtube you'll find like hundreds

of different like remixes for it how the guy

has more books than ferraris or more ferraris

than books it just it's so stupid but some of

them are so cleverly edited um it's pretty amusing

to say to say the least yeah i Do you remember

the days of like stupid videos calm and in albino

black sheep and Evon's world and in the things

that were pre YouTube and We could see a lot

of the same kind of stupidity on it. Oh, yeah

I love old internet. In fact, I was actually

doing some research for today's show and there

was a Video series I used to be a huge fan of

and used to do these stunts because I'm a stupid

jackass This is pre -Jackass. It used to be a

group out of Philadelphia or more specifically

Westchester, Pennsylvania They were known as

the CKY crew and that's Bam Margera, Rab himself,

Brandon DiCamillo, Ray Kion, etc. etc. Ryan Dunn

and He used to be a professional skateboarder

Bam Margera he still is but as he was just starting

to get big he got some money from one of his

sponsors to make a skate video but they're like

can you fill it with something else and he's

like yeah i i can do that and it was all these

stupid skits of like them playing football or

hitting each other in the head with sticks or

jumping over shopping carts stupid crap you'd

see on jackass later on and it got really big

on the internet this is just as things are starting

to hit so the first video was called cky land

speed and it started to get big on like real

player, you could download it. And this is probably

about 2000 something. So internet video is very

much in its infancy. Like E -bombs world was

still around or was around new ground shit like

that. Trying to think of what else was there

around that time that was interesting and stupid.

yeah I remember signing up for stupidvideos .com

I had no idea about that site actually I was

an ebombs world kid yeah well I watched all three

I actually had a subscription to stupidvideos

.com because they only allowed you to watch like

so many videos or something at the time and I

was like but but I must watch these and like

they had like dumb fake commercial things like

trunk monkey and all this stuff, you know, with

like Chevrolet and, you know, somebody's trying

to break into your car and then, uh, you know,

they, they bumped this button that's, that's

trunk monkey and the monkey comes out and clubs

the guy or like kills the guy and throws them

over a bridge or something. And, um, it was just

ridiculous. And then, um, then I, I remember

like Yvonne's world in, in albino black sheep

.com, which kind of took over a lot of Yvonne's

world when a lot of stuff went, um, kind of off

the deep end like there was a lot of in -fighting

between creators on ebombs world or not getting

paid on there and so they just were a jump ship

so it was kind of funny in that that regard I

don't know if you remember a guy named Frederick

Fox on there yep I remember him quite well actually

he had a lot of the stupidest like freaking videos

like on it but they were hilarious at the same

time Do you remember this is probably about this

time? Do you remember a stupid internet video

called salad fingers? It sounds familiar. There

was just this it's this weird creepy green guy

and he has these creepy spoons for fingers and

it's just it's so incredibly and this will make

the episode PG 13. It's so fucked up. There is

no other word for it. It is so Weird um and I

had a friend of mine in college Ashley because

I went to college in 2006 to 2010 so right when

internet video was really hitting its stride

of Like early content creators and stuff like

that and it was just some of the weirdest crab

dude I have ever seen in my life another early

internet favorite that I loved Google this one

kids. My hands are bananas and my friend Ashley.

I sure got all about that Oh my god, you know

about it. Yes And my friend Ashley found it and

for like two years of college we'd walk by each

other in like the residence or the hallways he'd

be like beware the milky pirate and we just would

quote internet videos at each other and it was

It was pre -meme. Before meeting was cool, we

had internet videos. Oh yeah, what was another

one that I remember? Like Mr. Weeble. I don't

think I saw that one. Well, he's done like, you

know, narwhals and things like that. Or like,

badger, badger, badger, badger. Yes! Mushroom,

mushroom, I love that. And there's a number of

funny ones from that guy. I'm trying to think

of I'm trying to think of another one the Nyan

cat thing. Yeah, that was on there the new manuma

guy the new manuma guy the Star Wars kid I'm

trying to think of some other ones chocolate

rain Tazon day. Yeah, he actually follows me

on Twitter Yeah, same here. I was I was like,

and I was like, man, I remember that stuff. That

was that was pretty pretty hardcore stuff. And

then he actually got to do that cherry chocolate

rain for like Dr. Pepper. They're like cherry

Dr. Pepper or something years ago, which was

funny. I don't know. We used to have just so

many really weird videos online. And there were

content creators that really stuck out in your

mind Nowadays, there's hundreds of thousands

of them and you can name a few of the big ones

like PewDiePie Ninja, but he's a streamer Yeah,

see those two guys don't really resonate with

me But I guess it's like those are like new generation

things because like I didn't even know who ninja

was until about like a month ago I I I know who

ninja is because I I'm in the fortnight community

like Obviously, I just watch. I don't play because

screw that game. But I love watching it. I tried

playing it. I was like, this is just stupid.

I was like, I went back to Battlefield. It was

the building that got me. Then Black Ops 4 came

out and all was right with the world. But anyway,

yeah. And PewDiePie, he's still huge, but he's

just not as... Hip I guess as he once was because

people talk about ninja and dr. Dis in dr. Disrespect

and team star. Um Kind of like of like other

people. Do you remember razor Rick? The name

sounds familiar. They did the Mario versus Sonic

videos Where they were just they were just absolutely

bludgeon themselves like bludgeon each other

in the videos No, I don't remember that. It was

like a It was like a fight to the death. It was

almost like the ultimate showdown of ultimate

destiny. Oh, OK. Kind of in a sense, like which

is another funny one where Mr. Rogers wins out

of everything. I remember when I remember the

first year when Epic Rap Battles came out. And

they're supposed to be coming back next year.

Yeah, I didn't catch until season two, but I

really enjoyed that series of what they did with

it. I have two of those raps memorized. I have

Hulk Hogan versus Kim Jong -il memorized, and

I have Darth Vader versus Hitler memorized, because

I remember a friend of mine named Scotty showed

them to me. He said, Mike, you're not going to

believe this, because this kid, he used to have

his finger on the pulse of everything weird internet

-wise, and he showed them to me. I remember waiting

weeks and weeks around for new videos when they

come out. I'd replay them and listen to them

endlessly. Another early Internet person who

still makes videos today. He is a friend of mine,

so I'm going to preface that. I don't think he's

as funny as he once was, which is unfortunate.

And that's the angry video game nerd James Rolfe.

I remember back when he was the angry Nintendo

nerd back in 2007. I think a lot of The reason

why some of those those people have gotten away

from it is because like the shtick has kind of

gotten old and then the fact that and then the

fact that that people just don't resonate with

that type of content anymore. Well, there's only

so many ways you can say a game sucks or where

you start to string together vulgarities or it

doesn't make any sense anymore. And don't get

me wrong. I love James. James is a dear friend.

He's done a lot of good things for me personally

and professionally but I haven't had a good laugh

with this content for a while and that's unfortunate

and another person who's still around and it

surprises me because and I'm not going to talk

much about this just because I'm so over it was

the nostalgia critic he's still doing his shtick

and it's been around since 2007 That's like kind

of blew over like a ton of bricks especially

recently, but it's it's been kind of dead for

years Really? Well the fact that the channel

still has over a million subscribers and it survived

the change the channel controversy which happened

earlier on this year Which I'm not going to discuss

at any length um Was just surprising to me that

that that a channel can survive that I guess

if your content makes enough people quote -unquote

laugh they're willing to forgive almost anything

it's where the art transcends the the artist

so to speak and I see a lot of my friends online

still unfortunately dealing with some of the

fallout from it and yeah just kind of moving

on from that other people that I used to really

like I used to like watching a lot of the machinima

type content I never got into red versus blue,

but I liked machinima as a channel They have

two guys on there named Steven Larson They used

to do a show called ten for the win and then

they eventually became a pro wrestling channel

in the last like couple years and They've got

quite a substantial patreon and substantial following

online Where they get invited to events like

2k flies them out for stuff. I think whenever

the new video game comes out stuff like that

but they have all these professional wrestlers

doing the intro for their show they got like

bobby roux they got tasha banks charlotte flair

so cool people um but i remember when they started

out watching them another group whose content

has changed over the years and eventually got

bought out by rooster teeth a screw attack and

I've been involved with them for a number of

years, not so much since 2010, 2011 is when I

checked out after hard news came to an end. Well,

there's also to a lot of the smaller channels

or smaller artists have gotten eaten up by bigger

entities over the years. Oh, yeah, because they

have content that people want. In fact, I remember

when James Rolfe got bought up by Screw Attack

because he was hosted on there and there was

Contracts there's a whole thing. I mean if you

want to read the Wikipedia articles on it a lot

of it's pretty accurate But yeah a lot of smaller

channels and smaller content got eaten up by

bigger entities or People got bought not by MTV

at the time. I remember when game trailers was

a thing Screw attack was making quite substantial

money off of that due to like contracts. So then

I don't wanna go into specifics with it, but

yeah, you'd be surprised if you were an early

content creator and you were really good, a lot

of people were willing to give you a shot. And

I'm surprised a lot of smaller content creators

from that time didn't get hit with like copyright

and stuff like that because... using copyrighted

works, stuff like that because that's when really

the era of the internet critic was born back

when we had early YouTube, we had blip .tv and

everything like that. You had all these different

video platforms and a lot of people were making

their money. One of the people who became very,

very, very successful out of that is a woman

named Lindsay Ellis. used to be known as the

nostalgia chick. Now she works for PBS producing

documentaries and stuff like that. And she came

out of that remarkably well. Say what you will

about her fan base that follows her around and

harasses her at times, but such as being an internet

personality. And that's something that they don't

tell you about being online. I can only imagine,

cause I remember people were talking shit about

E -bombs world years ago, how he stole content

and he did stuff like that. And there was a video

I just watched recently talking about people

who would copy other content creators, like the

most famous comparison probably being The angry

video game nerd versus the irate gamer and He

was popular because YouTube featured him for

a while yet It was pretty clear here is ripping

James off like same material same joke same games

at times Whereas James was a very talented youtuber

and knew what he was doing and eventually found

his success and latched on to the right media

entities at the time the irate gamer His stick

eventually got old and now he toils in obscurity

or so I hear I haven't watched I think I've seen

maybe three or four of his videos in his entire

career just because I was curious But it's so

weird to see how the Internet has either made

certain people that are mainstays of Internet

or It's the new Wild West There's new people

out there because a lot of the people that I

used to work with on a number of different sites

They just don't produce stuff anymore, or if

they do, it's all supported by Patreon, or it's

all supported on YouTube live via the chat system.

Like I know ScrewAttack's Craig Skismis has a

new thing called Game Attack, and I say new within

the last couple years, but you get what I'm saying.

And he does a lot of content there. They do Death

Battle on ScrewAttack. Yeah, I've watched those.

And that's all Rooster Teeth now. Like Craig,

I'm pretty sure he sold it to Rooster Teeth or

either way they got absorbed. And now Game Attack

is its own YouTube channel, has its own community.

And they still refer to us as G1s and everything.

And it's a very well -supported community. I

love the people who like this year they did Extra

Life and they raised like four grand. for children's

hospitals. And that's pretty amazing for a community

of YouTubers who just come, or a community of

fans of a YouTuber. I think that's actually pretty

neat. But yeah, I mean, going back to the original

point here, a lot of the old internet people,

I don't know what they're up to anymore. I only

know the people that exist in my circle that

are still doing things, like Lindsay Ellis still

does things. and those who shall not be named.

And I'm trying to think of who else really does

stuff. Not a lot of early people that I can think

of. They kind of moved on to get real jobs or

they work in online media, maybe behind the scenes

or maybe they've retired entirely. Yeah. And

then recently even we had like Defy Media. Yep,

which means with them going under, because that

was a huge influx of Google money to help support

these YouTube creators and YouTube channels.

With that gone, we lost Smosh Gaming. When we

lost Smosh, they lost Clever, The Warp Zone,

which I was a huge fan of The Warp Zone. And

they lost, what are some of their other ones?

I don't know, they've got a nice hefty catalog

of people that were on their payroll anyway.

And yeah, it's just, I don't know, it's kind

of just really odd. Well, no one has quite figured

out the online video pay scale yet. Nobody's

figured it out with podcasting either but yeah.

Yeah, it's just it's not nobody knows how to

do it or nobody knows how to do it right or nobody

knows how to make it sustainable because you

and I Steve have been doing this for ten years

plus now. Oh, yeah easy and For us it's enthusiast

slash You and I are media. We're just not We're

not mainstream Yeah, we're not mainstream. We're

very underground, but we have a following. We

have an establishment because our brand has been

around for so long, we've earned that right.

Kids coming up now, unless your YouTube channel

catches fire or your podcast catches fire somehow,

man, it sucks to be you, man. Yeah, it's really...

unfortunate nowadays. I remember, especially

with the metrics changing on how they measure

the metrics now, because they've kind of come

out with these new reports now and a lot of these,

like right now, podcasting companies are kind

of getting signed up with the IAB board for a

2 .0 metric scale. that they're having to get

certified in a lot of these companies to properly

measure. And there's a number of companies that

just are not on board with this new measurement

yet. And so when the new measurement kicks in,

your listeners and subscribers and your episode

metrics sometimes can drop as much as half, if

not more, depending on various factors of however

they measure it. And even with iTunes listens

now, they don't go by like the 30 second for

a minute. You're for a one listener metric now,

it's like 60 seconds or something like that.

And if you pause it and continue it later, it

doesn't... Give you another count whereas before

it would so like often you would have redundancies

in the counts Compared to the way that they used

to do it. So like even even like our podcast

I've seen since transitioning from One, you know

for blog talk radio to Spreaker. I've seen like

the numbers cut in half because a lot of it was

just You know different readings I mean, yeah,

I mean, it's, it's hard to get established now.

And unless literally you're in the right place

at the right time, or you happen to have that

right connections to the right connections. Yeah.

That lightning spark that can get you started.

I mean, the only reason we're as successful at

twig as we are is because I've been, I've been

in the industry for like 12 years and people

know who I am. They're like, Oh, that's Mike.

He's, he's a good guy. Doesn't matter whether

I have the listens that I used to or not. They're

like, That's mike we like him. He's a fat guy

But yeah, I mean it's weird to be up and coming

to want to be a content creator And I know we

touched uh, we touched upon this a couple of

weeks ago Just what it means to come up as a

youtube or a podcast creator now It's harder

than it ever has been um It's not to say you

shouldn't try obviously, um because If you generally

care about creating content, you absolutely should.

Um, but I think it's so hard to stay memorable.

Do I think there'll be another James Rolfe? No,

I really don't. By the same token, they'll never

be another nostalgia critic. And you could argue

there are tons of new video essayists and stuff

like that. People that are really good. There's

a few people that I listened to and Can't get

to my YouTube tabs right now to tell you who

they are But to have the brand recognition that

these people have doesn't matter if they have

two or three million subs if Nobody knows who

they are and you'd think with two or three million

subs you would You know, it's just it's hard

to get notice like you're on a platform that

has tens of millions of users Yeah, it's it's

in really any of the platforms anymore it's it's

very difficult to get Now, if there's a new platform,

such as Mixer, if you're a streamer and you're

not on Twitch and you're not on YouTube, and

you're getting started on there, there's opportunity

to grow to be bigger than anybody on the platform,

theoretically, just because you would be on that

platform. Yeah, but at the same time, it's Mixer,

who cares? Yeah. Which is - Which is unfortunate

because you've actually hit on something really

really really important as new platforms comes

out Is it easy to get noticed? Yes, but unless

those platforms catch fire Like the three platforms

that have come up in the last couple years that

are important Instagram is huge Snapchat is huge,

but isn't profitable Which I can't say i'm surprised

and do you remember when vine was a thing? Yeah.

And then that promptly died. Yeah. I mean, there

are people who are making money off of being

Vine stars, people who are making six second

videos and somehow blew up and got money. Yeah.

I remember watching a lot of people that were

doing those just because they were humorous and

they were quick. So it didn't really take up

that much time, but, but yeah. And I'm thinking,

will we see another Instagram? Well, okay. Here's

the big question. Will we see another Twitter?

Probably. Yeah, probably like we'll see another

Facebook to eventually because they're starting

to bottom out people are actually starting to

uninstall their apps off their phones. Well,

yeah, like, do you remember this would be months

ago, but you and I had this conversation about

us unplugging for a week. Mm hmm. And just how

therapeutic that's becoming people are starting

to realize social media is frankly goddamn toxic.

It is. After a while, you just get so burnt out

on it. I mean, now by that same token, I've made

friends in a Twitch community in the last couple

of months who've been really, really supportive,

good people. Because I'm a big fan of this one

streamer called Fooja, and her stream is just

her chat. They're younger, but they're funny,

but they're also very, very, very supportive.

And that's what I like in a community. But I

noticed on Facebook, it's nothing but politics.

It's people coming out as frankly terrible human

beings. It's like Facebook is almost where you

let all your bad ambitions or your bad baggage

hang out. And then it gets amplified in this

echo chamber where you find other douchebags

like you. And it either you either reinforce

a positive message or you reinforce a terrible

message and Sometimes I hang out on a friend

of the show Blanchard's Facebook sometimes and

I try to like read the comments Well to me like

I tend to shy away from a lot of people's Facebook's

just for the fact that unless it's something

that is like entertainment purposes. I kind of

shy away from it because most of the people are

very like political on there. And the unfortunate

part is, is depending on which side of the pendulum

you swing to, depends on, for one, all of these

social networks are very progressive leftist.

It's they've not they've let it be known I mean

it's not even it's not even a secret at this

point And then you know whether whether you're

on that side of the fence or not Is irrelevant

like I'm not arguing that point And if you're

on you know the other side of the the pendulum

there's a lot of times when you're spouting your

opinion Which I'm not saying that either side

shouldn't have their opinion it's how you go

about it yeah, but They often get blocked, even

if it's for something that's or like banned from

the platforms because of they're on the opposite

side of the spectrum instead of, you know, some

kind of an understanding. But it's just because

they can hit the banhammer because they own the

platform as opposed to somebody that's using

it. So I don't know. It gets really touching

on a lot of that stuff. So like I try to stay

neutral on everything that I'm on. or make it

as vague as possible if I'm going to comment

on something that lets them know that, yeah,

I don't approve of this particular behavior,

but this is my thought on it, but I keep it clean

to where it cannot hinder me in employment opportunities.

I try, I mean, it's no secret I'm pretty liberal

with how I think, but I won't go extreme one

way or the other. I try my rule of thumb is be

respectful. Everybody has an opinion. Everybody

has a right to it. But it's when you start forcing

extreme views one way or the other. And when

conflict happens, we've got a problem. You have

to sit down and talk it out if we can, if it's

if it's even possible at that point. There's

there's always a way to find common ground. And

that's kind of where the. The thing kind of gets

lost and like I I'm more of the conservative

nature. So like I'm not saying I'm right -winged

or any of that crap but there's people on this

side of the spectrum that I cannot stand because

just frankly they're idiots, but That goes on

both sides of the fence. So like yeah, so I mean

like, you know finding the common ground is is

definitely the You know, you have your differing

opinions on how things should be on, you know,

but the human nature side of things, like it's

just don't be a dick. Like that's just kind of

where it goes down. So follow the golden rule,

treat others as you wish to be treated and realize

that we can come to, everybody should be able

to talk, but we should be able to talk without

vitriol and hatred. in a conversation and that's

something else too with a lot of these to swing

this back around to kind of youtubers being political

as a youtuber has assassinated careers oh yeah

and it's not just on youtube it's been actors

too yeah i mean one notable youtuber i can think

whose career got very it was never the same since

and that was john tron and he had some very questionable

things to say and i Personally find John Tron

funny, but after those comments that he made

I want to say this was back in 2017 2016 it was

it was in the last year or two and I was like

wow, that's kind of That's kind of screwed up

dude, um and You don't see a lot of stuff come

out of his productions anymore, which is unfortunate

and I'm not saying unfortunate because him specifically

I'm saying when things get political things get

messy things get messy real quick but you also

find out some of these entertainers we find out

either have a dark past or they're douchebags

or something terrible and dark in and of itself

hell you look at the Me Too movement in Hollywood

and it's brought a lot of scumbags to light But

now it's also self -assassinating people on their

own side. Yeah, because you don't know, because

I'm watching a lot of law and order right now,

because go Michael Moriarty. But the point of

the matter is it should be innocent until proven

guilty, let the law decide, but at the same time

believe women. Where do you like, what do you

do? Yeah, it's a touchy line. Yeah, and it's

so messed up because and I remember being like

I grew up on law and order and that's how I've

always viewed the legal system innocent until

proven guilty and now mob mentality tends to

take over and they're like This person is guilty.

This person is did this did that this that another

thing and a person has only given their testimony

They've given one side of the story but it's

also the echo chamber and the politics getting

involved. And then it's also the fact that you've,

you know, like you said, the mob mentality. So

it just, it explodes and gets blown out of proportion.

Instead of having people coherently, you know,

answering questions, you have people, you know,

assassinating other people's characters. So like

it's, it's not right either way. Like it's, you

know, what happens to people is not right. And

in the character assassination is not right either.

So like, It's it's hard to figure out who believes,

you know, who's who's right? Yeah, because there

is no It's it's hard to it's hard to move forward

in the current political climate in the current

social climate because our so our social climate

has changed how our legal system is is functioning

and I Believe everybody should have their day

in court. Everybody should have the system is

there to work and I'm a very believer in... The

law is flawed at times, yes. There's a lot of

stupid laws too. There's a lot of stupid laws,

but there's a lot of good people fighting on

the right side of the law. You know what I mean?

I guess I believe in the heroic lawyer doing

the right thing. Not everybody's in it for money.

There's people who literally believe in truth

and justice, and justice is blind. So to speak

but that's a philosophical discussion for a different

day Sorry Steve, go ahead. Oh, no, go ahead.

You go ahead and say my My thought is it's it's

kind of amazing how much YouTube and online culture

has changed everything Like I this is not this

is not what I thought 2018 would look like if

you asked me 10 years ago, what do I expect the

social political climate to look like? I wouldn't

have I expected Facebook might have been a thing

like live drill where it's just there Where you

just update like oh today I walked my dog. I

had a glass of milk. I had cookies I had a date

today. It was okay. I Never would have expected

Facebook and Twitter to be used in court proceedings.

I never would have expected it to become a government

tool. I Never would have expected social media

and YouTube to become integral parts of society.

For better or worse, never would have seen it

coming. I am not a futurist in that regard. Like,

I never would have seen podcasting go this way.

No, what's really funny is like when we started

this journey, I had no idea where it was going.

I still don't. And to be honest, like, I mean,

I've got a goal for the new site for 2019. Some

of the things I plan on doing like I plan on

writing more I plan on doing a couple videos

here or there You know at least once or twice

a month And then like I'm trying to figure out

like a way to refocus you know, not only this

show, but I have a Another concept in the back

burner that I'm toying with the idea as well

as like resurrecting some of my my shows that

are kind of on a brief hiatus right now. So like,

I don't know. I am trying to figure out this

this happy medium plus trying to burn yourself

out, my friend. No. And it's it's I'd have to

have the right focus and the right interest level

in things before I go getting myself on that

bandwagon again. But the other thing that I'm

trying to think of is. No, recently we've had

the whole mess with Patreon. Oh God, yeah, this

is something that I saw happen. There's been

a few people, in short, when you go on Patreon

or Twitch even, when you donate to a streamer,

you have the option to refund that through your

bank or through your credit card company. Now,

when you do that, the streamer gets hit with

a charge through the bank or through the credit

card company. I can't remember which, but either

way it costs the streamers. So they have to refund

your money plus a $20 charge. And I saw a person's

Twitter account get suspended where her Patreon

account was negative $2 ,700. Now, evidently

she was selling her premium Snapchat. So not

exactly on the line. There was a talk about this

on Reddit. but a more personal story to relate

to this is I had a friend of mine who is a twitch

streamer had several charge backs and This person

was like, you know if you need me to refund your

money fine, but don't be a douchebag about it

I will but know that you're costing me money

at the same time and It sucks because let's say

you donate a dollar to this streamer, right?

And then they refunded they refund that dollar

That refund turns into $21 because it's a $20

or so fee from the bank. And there's been people

that have been weaponizing this where they'll

go into a Twitch streamers or a Patreon streamer

or a Patreon account or whoever, a content creator,

they'll donate a huge amount of money and they'll

pull it back. Or they'll make a bunch of donations

and pull it back. So they get dinged. Another

friend of mine who's in the RPG industry had

this happen to them at Gen Con. And the credit

card company was like, well, we're not refunding

this person. They got their stuff. This person's

just being an asshole. And so that was a happy

ending. But I've had friends of mine get right

screwed with like charge backs. And it's discouraging

to think that something that was put in place

for content creators to accept donations from

their fans or Patreons who want to support their

work or however you want to put it that they

can weaponize this This was meant to be a good

thing. This is this goes in the pile of this

is why we can't have nice things Like because

I'm in the process of starting a patreon for

for my dungeon master service for hire Now if

I get a charge back I will know where you live

and I will I don't have two legs But I will break

my foot off in your ass if you charge me back

Because I will give you this or I will have a

recording of the service. I gave you just in

case um, but point of the matter is This is supposed

to be something to help support creators. This

is a tactic that is gross. It's abusing a system

and why you gotta be a douchebag? Yeah and see

that's the thing too is like I've toyed around

with the idea of doing you know because like

you can tip on YouTube now and you can do that

on Twitch and you can you know you can do the

Patreon route you can do you know your own membership

on your website so there's like a variety of

ways that you could do this. And I've toyed around

with the idea of doing it either a membership

thing on GeekCast Radio or doing a Patreon. And

I'm still kind of thinking that idea over of

what I would do and what we would provide and

all that kind of stuff. But at the same time,

I almost feel like that's kind of... It this

state in the game like I would have to come up

with something completely new at this point Just

because I feel like we've been giving stuff for

free for so long. Like I don't I don't know how

I would structure that Then that whole that whole

concept but then that you know that article comes

out and I'm like, well, that's kind of worrisome

You know, you could you could get all this stuff

going and then somebody could just you know Just

to screw with you, you know, just do that whole

thing You know, no matter what platform you're

on they could do it but it's it's still you know,

kind of douchey and they've There's actually

been videos of people that Have done that, you

know on YouTube just to get a reaction out of

the person on their stream and then you know,

then they get the The reaction of after they've

yanked it from them, you know, yeah, like seriously,

why would you do that to somebody? Like what

is wrong with you? But then again, you know It's

human nature, right? Yes, people have to be a

dick. Yeah for no real reason other than to be

I'm an asshat For no particular reason ha diddly

ha ha. I don't get it. I mean It makes me very

wary to to start it But then again, I guess from

my service I'm a little bit more insulated because

I'm offering to put like basically my game master

for higher services. Hey, I'm gonna run an Avenger

for you and up to four of your friends for four

hours at a time. My time is worth X amount of

dollars, whatever. I probably will record the

session just to have it for my personal records.

This way I'm protected from chargeback saying

I never got this service. Here's the audio evidence.

And you agree to this before you before I take

your money so to speak but other people who shoot

photo shoots Who provide audio podcasts or who

basically anybody who provides a creative service?

I could see this you could get screwed over real

fast see my my whole method is to is like if

if I was gonna go this route I I would make sure

that one like if I was gonna have like a you

know, let's say a specialized podcast that that

was a you know, subscription only service, um,

with, you know, some, some video type content

or whatever. I, I'm one of those weird people

that keeps records forever. Uh, in my, in my

email account. So like my, my primary email account

is not the, the Steve at Geekcast radio. What's

funny is I have all my emails routed to a secondary

email account. That's actually my primary and

So I have documented evidence from every one

of those email accounts in this one email that

I use for everything and It goes back 10 years

Yep, I've had the same gmail account since 2007.

I keep everything Yeah, I use a hotmail account.

So like I've had I've had everything in this

account for like 10 years. And thankfully, so

like there was an incident last year where I

needed to transfer the Geekcast radio or knows

this year domain name from one web host to another.

And I couldn't unlock the email account or the

the domain because I couldn't figure out what

host I'd created it under. And I had and they

need in order to. Unlock it. I had to have a

certain ID number or something that they gave

you in the the original sign -up email and I

happen to have it in this this email and I was

very thankful but um Yeah, I mean like and when

I send people emails of stuff like I always I

always send them so that like I get a receipt

or you know something so that it's kind of I

like to be documented and so like it would be

one of those things if I was gonna do something

like this it would I would have to have a lot

of like red tape just to protect myself So getting

into a different route that kind of sucks for

Depending on how you look at it Funny thing is

is the person that wrote this article on the

website that I'm quoting it from actually used

to guest on podcasts and Geocast radio. And it's

the the FTC investigating video game loot boxes.

Yeah, this is something I can't say that I'm

surprised is it's been a long time coming. And

because I know over in Europe, this has been

a big deal. And loop loop boxes have been suspended

for sale for games like Overwatch. I want to

say in Germany, I think. And in China, they have

to tell you exactly what the odds are of your

drops for like everything. So there's less, so

it's not gambling, you know exactly what the

odds are going in. And yet over here, they're

just. an industry under themselves. I remember

the first game that I remember having loot drops

that really got me addicted. And I say that knowing

full well I've spent easily $1 ,000. And that

was Call of Duty Advanced Warfare in their supply

drop system. Now, admittedly, I got everything

I wanted. Like I had the most stupid luck in

the world where I have every Every variant that

was stat changing. I got them almost instantly

So go me um but other games like overwatch I

Don't have all the skins that I want. Yes You

can buy most of those skins by saving up the

real -world gold and you do get duplicates if

you get the same skin you'll get like 25 gold

for it or something like that. I don't know,

whatever. But there was supply drops for infinite

warfare, I think there were, or there was like

a case system where you could build your own

weapons or something like that. But over here,

the ESRB has basically said loot drops are an

optional experience that enhance the user's experience.

They are not mandatory, but they enhance the

game and they... where they repeat this several

times in their press release, that it enhances.

And this most notably probably comes out of what

happened with Star Wars Battlefront 2 from last

year, which they couldn't have screwed up more

if they wanted to. Where they had loot boxes

tied to the progression system, where you'd get

a random loot box and let's say you're trying

to improve your clone trooper, but you get like

a droid. Yeah, I'm not... No, um, eventually

they took that out of the game Well, what's what

what's funny about all this is now they're starting

to refer to them as You know in -game purchases

label In some scenarios, but Yes, they while

they are primarily like enhancements some of

the time they're not and And when I say that

I mean for instance Star Trek online When you

Because there's an option where you can buy Zen

which is the in -game currency And then they

give you bonuses for it at times and then you

know certain other things well, they they have

these Opportunities as it were to Kind of win,

you know, they have these these lock boxes and

No, you don't play it but they They they give

you options of winning and they they list all

these different starships that you're capable

of getting with a certain type of lock box and

their tier six which are The highest difficulty

the highest Option like so you could get you

know with this particular, you know infinity

lock box that they just recently did You know,

you can get cruisers. You could get, you know,

the Crenham ships, the Zendi, Tholian, the cool,

you know, Cardassian, Jim Hadar, the Kelvin.

Timeline, you know, so like I have the Kelvin

enterprise in the game, but I didn't get it from

a lockbox. I bought it on the market with the

end game currency of of the, you know, by selling,

you know, buying low and selling high of the

keys. That somebody originally had to spend money

on to put in there, but So like they have a lot

of stuff in there so they also have like the

discovery the the crossfield classes in there

too and occasionally They will put the the original

enterprise A or the original refit enterprise

in there. It is a tier six Which normally is

like that is the the nigh impossible one to get

in the game Yeah, and it's like 1 .5 billion

credits in the game or whatever to get if you

have that kind of money in there. How much would

that cost in real world money? About 350 bucks.

Shut the front door. No, it's that much. Yeah.

So it was like 60 bucks or something if you wanted

to get the Kelvin enterprise or something like

that. So anyways, you have the options of, it

says you have a small chance of dropping one

of the you know, ground and space filled packages.

And they they don't tell you your odds of winning

any of this stuff. You usually get like a low

B, which is another form of currency in game.

So there's like six different kinds of currency

in game. And some of them are useless. The low

B you can only get by opening a lockbox. So because

you can't buy it anywhere else. So that means

that you have to buy a key. in order to open

the lock box which they drop randomly all over

the place so that you can get them on purpose.

So you could easily drop tons and tons of money

and get nothing. Like I've opened probably, I

don't know, 100 lock boxes and some of that was

with real and some of it not. Some of it - Have

you gotten anything cool? No. I gotta say, that's

probably one of the, anything that's paid, anything

that is free to play will have an incredibly

screwed up in game economy. And that's the thing

too that I noticed when I was playing is the,

it's either the same people keep winning. It's

geared towards whales. Basically. It's kind of

like the whole kind of mobile game market We're

basically a few high -end spenders keep the entire

game afloat and I'm sorry my cat is talking.

It's okay Thanks, Ayla, but but yeah, so like

I noticed that that was kind of a losing battle

And so that's why when I started figuring out

in game with, because I didn't know what to do

with the credits in game like when I got them

originally. So I just had a bunch of it like

banked and didn't even realize it. And so I was

able to buy a ton of lock, you know, the keys

for the lock boxes in game. And so I just kept

buying them low and selling them high. And then

I would I get to the point I was buying 40 of

them at a time, 50 of them at a time and then

dumping them back on the market and almost And

some of them I'd make like an extra hundred K.

Some of them I'd make an extra like five hundred

K. Just would depend. Sometimes people would

post them way under market value and I would

luck out, make like an extra million off of them.

And it would take me it took me about a good

four months to save up for the Kelvin enterprise.

And then I still was I think I still have probably

sixty five million in the game, which isn't enough

to get any anything that I would want. That is

so insane. I have millions of dollars. I can't

get anything cool Well, yeah, I mean you can

and you could buy occasionally for a couple million

You can get like some of the uniforms like I've

got pretty much all the uniforms I'm locked now

at this point, but Which that's pretty much where

I I kind of go and then I figured out to with

mining the dilithium Which you can convert then

which is the real money stuff You can convert

that into Dilithium too but I save up all the

Dilithium between all my different characters

and then I turn it into Zen when it's low cost

and then when it's back up again I dump it into

Dilithium and then when they have the the Phoenix

upgrade weeks I buy them all up and then I mass

upgrade everything in there. So, but yeah, I

mean, the whole thing with the loot boxes, I

think that it to some degree needs to be regulated

in a sense that we should know there are odds

from the get -go before you're dumping into it.

Oh, absolutely. Like anything like that needs

to have the odds posted or in the ideal world.

here's the item you want, here's how much it

costs in real world money, or you can take your

chances with this market, here are your drop

rates. I completely agree, because I know for

Call of Duty, one of my weapons for advanced

warfare, the obsidian steed, had a ridiculously

low drop rate. I got it pretty easy, and I got

lucky with it. Yet, when I played Call of Duty

Black Ops 3, I think one of the the guns I want

I must have spent easily like $100 to get the

FAMAS rifle and it was annoyingly hard to get

and had I known the The drop rate I probably

wouldn't have done it Mm -hmm, but that's how

they get you because they know certain certain

temple franchises Like Star Trek like Call of

Duty and like overwatch People are gonna put

money into it or like FIFA I think FIFA has loot

boxes. I'm not 100 % sure on that. Or other micro

transaction heavy games. Like I know anything

that's free to play will have an economy that

is built around screwing you. It's just the way

it is. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

That economy is designed to, you lose, sir. You

stole fizzy lifting drinks. Good day, sir. There's

not a lot you can really do about it. but with

the FTC investigates and makes a recommendation

to the ESRB or the big video game publishers,

you need to do something about this, but I hate

to say this, Steve. Your government tends to

favor big, big, big business. Right now. I don't

see how this is gonna shake out well for us,

the consumer. Yeah, I kind of agree with you

there and it kind of is worrisome but the same

time like I Granted, you know us as gamers were

generally pretty stupid because we see something

we want we're like, you know the the Futurama

joke of give me your you know Yeah, I mean so

if if any game has done an economy right it's

fortnight The game is free to play. If you want

something, you can unlock the tiers to buy it,

or you can buy it directly. That is fair. If

you want to advance your battle pass, you can

pay to do that, or you can grind it out. And

that game has seasons. Black Ops. has a similar

thing, but its economy is somewhat screwed up

right now where it's a hundred COD points to

skip a tier, but all the cool stuff is that super

high tier. So you could drop $200 and get the

unicorn gun and the new blackout character, or

you can play one hour or you can play an hour

and 10 minutes per tier and you can get the tier

for free. So you can grind it out, but the season

only lasts 40, 50 days. So unless you can dedicate

four hours a day every single day, you will not

get it. Unless there's like a double -tier weekend

or something like that. So in -game economies

need to change. Yes, there needs to be regulation.

I don't see it happening anytime soon. That's

fair. It's going to be up to the individual publishers

to self -regulate. And they're going to look

at their bottom line and say, can we still do

this? Can we still make money while looking like

the good guys here? Yeah, and I agree I I just

think that they need to give the odds and then

kind of just let the chips fall where they may

at that point but Because ultimately some people

are gonna dump the money and other people are

not but the fact that kids are getting involved

with it now it does kind of make it gambling

because you are gambling you don't know if you're

gonna get what you're looking for So I Think

that's my final thoughts on it. What about you?

I think so. I mean ultimately I want regulation

But I want it to be fair to the consumer. I don't

want big business to take advantage of us gamers

because there are going to be kids that get a

hold of their parents' credit cards and go nuts.

It's happened before. It will happen again. People

will sell like... It's nuts to spend money on

virtual items that don't carry over year to year.

Fortnite at least carries over season to season.

Whereas Call of Duty, those guns I bought in

Advanced Warfare don't matter. worth for shit

in Black Ops 4. So I guess we'll just have to

wait and see. Hopefully it works itself out in

the next year or two, but we'll have to see what

happens if the FTC investigates in the proper

way and whether companies like EA, Activision,

Blizzard, et cetera, et cetera, will actually

do the right thing and self -regulate. Yep. So

we have been. We have been Mike the Birdman Dodd

from ThisWeekendGeek .net. Be sure to be checking

out our holiday gift guide, which we'll be dropping

on December 12th, where we have things from Activision,

Insight Editions, and many, many other places

such as Paramount, Warner Brothers, and others.

We'll be talking about what we think you should

be buying for yourself and maybe giving presents

that are coming from Santa Claus. So be sure

to be looking out for that on December 12th.

And I then Steve Megatron Phillips be sure to

check out all the various things we have going

on at Geek House Radio as well as this week in

geek and Till next time get altered get geeky

with the altered geeks