Debating the Best Starfleet Captains

This is Robert Picardo, the holographic doctor

from the Star Trek Voyager and Commander Woolsey

from Stargate Atlantis. You're listening to Mike

the Birdman Dodd and the rest of the twig crew

on This Week in Geek .net. Hey guys, welcome

out to Future Imperfect. I am one of the many

Starfleet officers upon this voyage. I am Mike

the Birdman Dog, but I'm not alone in this trek

across the stars as we make our return from,

uh, we'll say the Mirror Universe. I'm joined

by the co -creator of the GeekCast Radio Network.

Steve Megatron Phillips? And we're joined by

a very special guest, one of my favorite contributors

and co -workers over at thatguyoftheglasses .com,

a man who has a Green Lantern Starfleet costume,

a man who needs little introduction behind the

fact that he is that sci -fi guy. That is me.

Hi, everyone. Leo Thompson. So guys, we are here

on... Future Imperfect, sponsored by SFI .org.

Starfleet, the world's largest Star Trek fan

club, and we definitely thank them for all their

support. In fact, actually some cool rumblings

out of there today. George Takei. Mr. Sulu is

going to be appearing in Toronto at Roy Thompson

Music Hall, I believe, in early May, and I think

some members of the Starfleet are going to be

hanging out being his honor guard. So there's

going to be some people dressing their Voyager

Reds, all sorts of other crazy stuff. There's

going to be some Klingons there. It's going to

be a good damn time. More information on that.

As it goes forward, but first off guys have to

apologize that we only got one show out last

time Just things just got in the way But now

now that me and steve have a backup Basically

a bunch of people we can talk to and have people

like leo on the show. We will be bringing you

Future imperfect definitely twice a month, especially

with the new twig website launching Our first

new format show went up yesterday as opposed

to when you're hearing this in your via your

universal translators. So yeah, I guess as we

often do, we usually go around the table and

find out what everybody's been doing over the

last little bit. So Mr. Megatron, entertain me.

Well, I've been lately working on some stuff

for Geekcast Radio. I'm going to be entering

a voice acting contest on BehindTheVoiceActors

.com that I helped found last year. And for the

most part, just been keeping busy. Just started

a new board game podcast with my buddy that I

work with, or used to work with, and not getting

into that here. But yes, for the most part, just

been keeping busy with all kinds of podcast stuff.

Good stuff. And what about you, Leo? I mean,

you are always busy over on that guy with the

glasses .com. I think your latest review was

Stardust, if I'm not mistaken. It was. It was

my April Fool's That Fantasy Guy special Stardust.

We thought it'd be kind of a fun. It came up

with that gag. It was like a real throwaway five

second gag. People liked it. So it's like, yeah,

that'd be fun to do a whole. And no, it wasn't

that fun, but it turned out great. You know,

I got to say that's actually one of my favorite

comic book movies. Actually, I really had a lot

of fun with that one. Uh, I hope and when I say

it wasn't that fun, it was the the shoot it was

just it was it was we had to walk a long way

with that big heavy chair and it was cold and

it was windy and Turned out great though and

people saying being an online review was super

easy So guys in this edition of future imperfect,

we are going to be talking about the question

of the ages, the thing that has led to many bar

fights over a cup of Klingon blood wine. Who's

the best captain in Star Trek? That's right,

guys. We are throwing it down. We're putting

our phasers down, rolling up our sleeves. We're

going to be fisticuffs in this episode. We're

going to talk about Janeway, Cisco, Archer, Kirk,

Picard, and - And maybe we'll make mention of

the newer Kirk, though really when you think

about it, he hasn't had his command, oh, all

of 20 minutes. Seabag Kirk, you know, he's new

Kirk. Yeah, so he's still getting his feet wet,

but we definitely do appreciate it. So we're

going to talk about these guys, talk about where

they stand in terms of leadership, how they fight

their battles, diplomacy, and, you know, notable

accomplishments that they've done throughout

their career. We're like we're gonna play devil's

advocate for like some people cuz last night

in the car while I was coming home From PAX Easter.

I was this past weekend. We I found out a lot

about captain Jonathan Archer So I don't think

he sucks now that I know more about him. Is he

the best captain Starfleet? No But I think he

deserves some recognition for the things that

he's done and the mistakes that he's made, which

all these captains have done things that may

be regrettable to the future of the universe.

But before we do that, we have to take a break

and talk to the Elcar's computer done by Steve

Megatron Philips. So, guys, we'll be back right

after this and see what came up from ThinkGeek

.com's from the replicator. We'll be back, guys,

right after this. This computer terminal provides

full access to the LCARS computer net. It can

be operated both by voice and keypad commands.

Initiating update. Hello and welcome to another

edition of LCARS. I'm your host, Steve Megatron

Phillips, and in this edition of LCARS, I plan

to talk about, as our subject of the show happens

to be captains, I figure we should cover the

very first captain ever focused on. in the history

of Star Trek and this would be none other than

Captain Christopher Pike who happened to be a

23rd century Starfleet officer and the first

actually according to history the second captain

of the Starship Enterprise from 2251 to 2262

as the successor of Robert April an immediate

predecessor to Captain James T Kirk The primary

storyline that Captain Christopher Pike happened

to stumble upon in Star Trek, and of course,

The Cage, was the trace the signal to the crash

site on Talos IV. After an initial encounter

with supposed survivors, they find out that,

well, it's telepathy. An illusion by the Telosians.

Who end up locking up Captain Christopher Pike,

and through a series of struggles, he manages

to best the Telosians in every encounter. breaking

their illusions and finally setting him and his

crew free. After a long tour as captain of the

Enterprise were spent with junior science officer

Spock as a loyal member of his crew, Pike was

promoted to fleet captain in the mid -2260s at

which point Captain Kirk took command. Only a

few years thereafter, he was aboard a training

vessel in an old class J Starship, when a baffle

plate ruptured and exposed many helpless trainees

and cadets to Delta particle radiation. Pike

dragged many cadets from the danger, but in the

process was hopelessly crippled by the rays.

The disfigured Pike was put on a form of advanced

life support, which sustained his withered body

and life functions. But he was too weak and incapacitated

to ever move or respond to physical stimuli again.

A wheelchair that was tuned to his brain could

use blinking light signals to respond to simple

queries in the affirmative one flash or negative

two flashes. But that was the extent to which

he could communicate. Later, in 2267, after being

contacted by the Telosians, Lieutenant Commander

Spock devised a plan to divert the Enterprise,

which he was now First Officer of, to Talos IV

to take the then -hospitalized Captain Pike.

Spock was then presented with an onboard court

-martial, later revealed to have been concocted

by the Telosians. Convinced Pike to accept the

Talosians offer in order to live out the rest

of his life Under illusion with Veena in which

his devastating handicapped no longer existed

Pike went into retirement from Starfleet active

duty and lived on Telos for permanently with

no further outside contact Since the secrecy

of the Talosian power made his fate largely unknown

in memory of Captain Pike There was the Christopher

Pike Medal of Valor named in Pike's honor Benjamin

Sisko and Sulak received the award in the 24th

century DS9's Tears of the Prophets. On the planet

Cestus III, Pike City was named after him. In

DS9 family business, The Way of the Warrior,

there was also a shuttlecraft Pike carried on

board the USS Enterprise D in TNG's The Most

Toys. Suffice it to say, Captain Christopher

Pike has left a huge remembrance throughout the...

four sagas of Star Trek in which took place after

him. Although he is the starship captain of the

Enterprise that has the least amount of screen

time, he still is to be remembered as one of

Starfleet's greatest. So with that, I say farewell

and now back to Future Imperfect. Deactivation

complete now disconnected from this terminal.

Hey guys We are back here on future imperfect

once again brought to you by SFI org Starfleet

the world's largest Star Trek fan club and there

we learned about captain Christopher Pike And

since I haven't seen a whole lot of the original

series I like having things like Steve do this

for me and for you are a wonderful audience So

thank you for that Now one of the cool things

that I love that comes out of Star Trek is the

vast amount of memory which you can get from

a variety of stores. And we actually have an

interview with a guy coming up in about a week

or two, a guy named Scott Nicotta who does Star

Trek props. We're going to talk about that later.

But one of the really cool things I discovered

via one of our sponsors on the show, thinkgeek

.com is, well, my apartment, my studio, my ready

room. is not as colorful as it should be right

now. I mean, I got a Dalek clock on the wall,

and that's pretty much about it, and my wedding

photos. I know, I'm such a, you know, sci -fi

loser. And one of the cool things I actually

got sent from ThinkGeek was the Star Trek retro

propaganda poster set. So we're gonna take a

review of that right now, and that is coming

to us from the replicator over at thinkgeek .com.

We'll be back, guys, right after this. Greetings

fellow officers of Starfleet. I'm Mike the Birdman

Dodd and this is from the replicator brought

to you by ThinkGeek .com. In today's selection

from our replicator rations, we are looking at

the Star Trek retro propaganda poster set available

from ThinkGeek .com. These are very much done

in the same style as the World War II era posters

of We Can Do It. Do it. Uncle Sam needs you.

How about a nice cup of coffee and all those

things. And what this is, it's a set of four

posters. You get constructing your future, which

is showing the fuselage of the new enterprise

being constructed, building your future, where

it kind of shows the saucer section. Another

one where it's up close of the deflector dish

being basically held in dry dock and finally

my favorite one or it says boldly go and it shows

the enterprise rushing at you very well boldly

for lack of a better phrase to kind of you know

want you to enlist in Starfleet. And these things

are remarkably cool. Very much inspired by the

whole kind of J .J. Abrams style of Star Trek.

And these things retail for about $29 .99. They're

18 by 24 inches. They're on really nice paper.

100 pound paper, to be precise. And I think these

things would look fantastic framed. in an office,

especially the boldly ghost setting. If there's

any Star Trek poster that would look nice professionally

framed in an office environment I think it would

be that one but also as well that constructing

your future it also has the I think it was the

date when the movie came out which was a couple

of years ago I think around Christmas if I'm

not mistaken but I don't know because that's

the date that's on the poster 25 12 25 08 I didn't

see this movie first run in theaters um but it's

a nice looking set of posters and for four of

them for just a for just under $30. I don't think

you can really go wrong with these. Like I said,

the best one out of the set is, I think, Boldly

Go. But constructing your future is pretty kick

-ass as well. Like I said, I don't think these

things would be expensive to probably get framed.

Great in a professional office setting. And I

think you should be spending your precious replicator

rations. on these wonderful Star Trek posters.

So once again, big thanks to ThinkGeek .com.

This has been From the Replicator. Now back to

the bridge. And welcome back to Future Imperfect.

Thanks, Mike, for that great review of their

posters. It's hard to review something like that

because, you know, art is in the eye of... of

the beholder but one of my favorite posters as

I mentioned during my review is I love the boldly

going poster which has the big uh close -up shot

of the enterprise with the you know the the deflector

dish right up in your face I also am a big fan

of the constructing your future once where once

again you see the the um fuselage of the enterprise

being uh built and I don't know I I think it's

cool it reminds me a lot of the battle star Galactica,

Propaganda Potions, which came out a couple years

ago. But what can I say? I'm not on the Battlestar

this time. I'm on the good old Enterprise. Flagship

of Starfleet. I want a flag sheep. Somebody out

there make this happen. So anyway, guys, let's

get down to it. We are talking. Who is the best

captain? My vote. Now, hold on. First of all,

I got a question. Are we saying who is the best

captain at who is best at their job, or who is

your favorite? Because there is a difference.

I want to say best, but it all depends on how

I want to phrase the question, because my good

friend Mr. Ecock, Justin over at Ecocked and

Loaded, brought up a very good point. How do

you define, okay, who's the best captain in terms

of following the ideals of Starfleet, or who's

the best leader? Right. So it's all in how you

want to bring it. I'm going to say who is the

best person, who's the best leader out of these

guys? And I'll just say Captain, because, well,

that hopefully is what drew you into listening

to this right now. So now that I've got your

money and your attention, let's decide this.

My personal vote, and I have a feeling this will

be vastly unpopular, will be... Captain Catherine

Janeway from Star Trek Voyager. I base this upon

one notable act. She defeated the Borg Collective.

And what I mean by that is, at the end of Star

Trek Voyager, by the way guys, spoilers, I'm

sorry, you've had like 7 or 8 years to see this,

I make no more apologies past this point. She

defeated the Borg, and by doing that, she saved

trillions of lives from assimilation and basically

saved Earth because there was a transwarp conduit

into Sector 001, so the Borg could have threw

their entire armada at us at any given time if

they so chose. Also, with that, Another thing,

she negotiated with the Borg and Species 8472,

once again saving the Alpha Quadrant from massive

invasion from fluidic space. Also developing

weapons of mass destruction, plus she's made

contact with countless new species, even more

so than Kirk and Picard combined. So that's why

I think Catherine Janeway is the best Captain,

because she's done all these huge things. Now

to play Devil's Advocate for a moment. She could

also be considered the galaxy's worst war criminal,

because interfering with the Prime Directive

on any number of different occasions, also by

defeating the Borg Collective as example by seven

of nine, Echeb, Captain Bacard himself, you can

be saved from being a Borg drone. How many innocent

people did she murder? So, with that in mind,

I go to my co -host, Steve Megatron Phillips,

who's your personal vote, and then we'll go through

the list and talk to Leo. If I had to say my

favorite captain, I would be kind of biased because

that's the first show I saw in the collective

of movies. That would be Kirk. However, I would

not say that he was the best captain overall

based on all of the events he is, all of the

things that have unfolded. I'm very partial to

Picard. And I would say that because not only

has he had numerous dealings with various new

uh... as have all of these captains new uh...

species of aliens uh... many first contacts uh...

he's had many uh... peace negotiations uh...

he he's done a lot of uh... exploring it not

only through his his crew and and the people

but you've got to know them a lot i i feel better

than most of the other shows He's had ongoing

or returning struggles to, you know, characters

such as Q. He had first contact with the Borg

because of Q. But it's also his fault that the

Borg ended up back in the timeline of the Enterprise.

So it's kind of... He's kind of had his ups and

downs as far as the series have gone. But I think

everything kind of centers around the TNG era.

All right And leo, who is your vote for the best

captain? Uh, you know to me it's always kind

of been a toss -up as far as like, you know,

who do I think is the the most Like a leader

someone that I would actually believe to to be

you know, a military officer between uh picard

and benjamin cisco i'm i'm actually a big fan

of benjamin cisco and he played Definitely a

lot of important roles like in you know with

the dominion war and You know just a lot of his

You know, he's a very believable This I mean

this is that this is man as a leader because

everyone else you know is kind of a Scientist

first and then a captain or a swashbuckler and

then a captain or a pilot and then a captain

I mean Cisco was pretty much one of the only

ones that came in as You know a command officer

So what one action do you think makes him really

stand out in terms of a notable or notable accomplishment,

so to speak? Say, on the spot, I was trying to

think of that. I mean, He was the new emissary

to the prophets. I don't know if he has one particular

action. I mean, he was the emissary to the prophets,

but I don't necessarily look at that as a good

thing. That's part of the like, while I love

Deep Space Nine as well, the prophets and the

Bajorans are really what drive me crazy about

it. but Yeah, I don't know I just I believe I

mean, okay, here's one thing about him that absolutely

He punched Q in the face and got away with it.

Yes If that doesn't earn you some kind of cred

That's true. And that's one very memorable scene

that happens. I think in DS 9's first season

Yes, it was the sixth episode. He's like you

punched me Picard never punched me. I'm not Picard.

I am NOT Picard Yeah, I gotta say that's something

I really liked about Cisco and one of the things

that I was talking about what makes Cisco a great

captain is He's the willingness to get the job

done. Exactly. And the fact that he's stationed

on the frontier of the Bajoran wormhole right

on the cusp of the gamma quadrant, this guy is

the person who managed to negotiate with the

founders, you know, to get the end to the dominion

war, brought peace to Bajor, is the emissary

to the prophets. But let's play devil's advocate

from it. This guy lied to the Romulans. Yeah,

but then again a guilty conscience is a small

price to pay, right? So that's that's a pretty

big deal when you think about it But then again,

like I said look at all the other times that

you know Janeway for example has interfered and

pre -warped Civilizations or civilizations that

weren't ready. I mean the case on Yes, I mean

she violates prime directive left and right,

but you know Voyager was in a a different kind

of situation. It's not like they could just go

and, you know, stop by the local Starbase and,

you know, stock up on what they need. They had

to... They had to keep, you know, the holodeck

on 24 -7 for Fairhaven. Because that's a smart

use of replicator rations. Yeah. Now, Fairhaven,

I will give you. That was a waste of rations.

Captain Proton, though, I enjoy. Just to give

our listeners a little bit of context, I was

talking with my friend Justin about Voyager's

energy problems. And another friend of mine,

JC Hutchins, a very big podcast author, had mentioned,

have you ever noticed how Voyager always begins

with power supplies and rations running low on

Voyager? We forced to dot, dot, dot, dot, dot.

And I got to thinking on DS9, we saw how much

memory the... is used up by the holodeck we see

how much power is used up on it on on the next

generation and they just leave it on in like

friggin uh Voyager and they eat food on the holodeck

everything etc etc and i got the thinking they're

always complaining about Neelix's Leola Root

stew well turn off Captain Proton and make a

pizza or something or turn it into another hydroponics

bay i mean i get the need for the crew to unwind

but pick up a book for fuck sakes um just turn

off the fucking You know, it's hard to say. He

did have, you know, he was you know, he had his

other side. But then he called what I what I

call or he did what I call going Cisco on people

occasionally Well, and it's not just his way,

I mean he's doing what I guess what he believes

to be Starfleet, I mean, you know, he very rarely

put very rarely he was the prep the emissary

of the prophets But he always tried to find a

star fleet Like, you know, for it to fit, yes,

I am the emissary to these weird godly creatures,

but here is a science fact. You know, and I used

a clip of it, and I think he sort of picked it

up from Kira, where the whole episode with the,

talking about the three demons that'll burn,

whatever the wording was, some ancient prophecy,

and the cardassian, the serpents, that'll burn

the celestial gates open. And, you know, they're

following this prophecy, which is worded, you

know, like something out of Nostradamus, and

it's like, oh, look, it came true. It's like,

well, yeah, but it was also worded so vaguely

that it could have meant anything. And, you know,

they had the whole science of, well, yeah, there's

these wormhole aliens that exist outside of time.

And someone went in there and learned a bunch

of stuff and came out and wrote it all down in

the form of a prophecy. And sure, there's science

behind it, but... What do you think Cisco's?

Pros and cons were in terms of Diplomacy, I think

the fact that he united Bejor with you know,

the crew of DS9 is a very Notable accomplishment,

but the fact that he had to lie to the Romulans

to get the support during the war But then again

helped end the second Klingon Civil War Yeah,

yes, and and he did manage to get the Klingons

on board with their war against the Dominion.

So I mean it's It he had a lot of good feats

in there Despite having to lie cheat and steal

to get what he needed to actually end the war

Yeah, now let's now here's something that I think

would make this debate a little bit more fun

If you will, let's take the different captains

drop them in in the different series Could anybody

besides Cisco have done what he did if you were

to take say put say Archer in the Cisco's? No,

I like Archer for some, well, I don't know, see,

that's the thing about Archer is he did adapt.

I mean, he was put in another similar, I mean,

not quite as big. you know, as the Dominion War,

but I mean, the whole Earth getting attacked

in the third season and he was literally, you

know, out for the survival of his planet, his

character grew and changed a lot. He went from

this very like, hey, I'm sort of happy, awesome

kind of guy, you know, and we're out exploring

space, you know, to stuff needs to get done and

I'm not going to put up with, you know, nonsense.

And unlike almost any of the other captains,

he grew, you actually saw his growth. You know

everyone else kind of was how they were and you

know they went through like you know phases and

whatnot But they didn't make like a major character

growth like Archer did Okay, what about say Picard

mr. Dip diplomat Could he have handled ds9 I

think he could have done what he needed to do.

I would have done something different he would

have done something different he would have tried

more of a diplomatic approach than say you know

getting angry and cranky about everything like

cisco and you know he wouldn't for instance turn

a blind eye to to quark stuff every now and again

you know he would he would be a lot more stern

with his crew and like i said you know john luke

is definitely one of those another one of those

i believe that he would be a military captain

like you know he he is actually someone that

is Yeah, you know he's gonna follow the book

Is there anybody amongst the captains you think

that would fall flat on their face given that

situation I Don't really think so I mean I think

I think they all would have be able to approach

these situations and in their own manner But

I'm pretty sure that they could be in her swap

between series and still survive I don't think

Janeway would have done as well simply because

she's not a military officer She was a science

vessel. This was her first deep space command

when she had Voyager, as far as I've been made

aware. Whereas Cisco had the Saratoga, or no,

he was the first officer on there, sorry. And

he has more field experience in military operations.

But if you're talking Janeway when she started

out in the beginning of Voyager or Janeway at

the end of Voyager, not the old Janeway but the

one at the very end, I'm pretty sure the older

Janeway could take it on. Okay, I'll give you

that and her yeah her character did have that

growth too, so I mean yeah the older Janeway

definitely That's like saying young Kirk would

be able to take this on there's no way in hell

now him on the enterprise You know late enterprise

or enterprise a yeah that I could see him taking

that on but not as a younger self Okay. All right,

then that works. All right, we're at Cisco would

be the only one at any age that would be able

to take this on full force Okay, so to wrap up

our talk on Cisco perhaps, what do you think

was his defining moment as a Starfleet officer?

What made his leadership to the ideals of the

Federation stand out? To me it may have been

there was the the moment where Worf's brother

comes to him and you know the family's been dishonored

and Kern wants to do this clinging on sacrifice

thing so that you can go to store before and

work is going to like stand with the knife in

like the moment that's just go like realizes

are about to go realize someone else i think

that's realizes at first but comes to him comes

in and stands put them up against the wall pretty

much and says look you know there is an extent

of cultural tolerance that i will accept from

my office of my star fleet officers news or just

cross that line You may have been able to get

away with stuff like this on the Enterprise,

but you're here now, which is actually completely

another fun story, Warf on DS9 versus Next Gen.

It's actually two different characters, but that's

for another day. The DS9 Warf is very more into

Klingon stuff, and the Enterprise wasn't as much.

There's a lot of weird things, but I mean, yeah,

the moment that he just kind of came in and said,

like, look, you know, I don't care about, you

know, you are a Starfleet officer and you do

not commit murder. And Steve, what do you think?

It's kind of debatable for me, for Cisco, just

because Granted, it's not one of my favorite

series. I'm not saying I don't like it now, but

I would have to say when Cisco... One of them

would be when Cisco, of course, robbed the Romulans

of their cloaking device. But I would also say

when he first got to go against the Dominion.

He didn't rob them, he caught them on a lie and

said, you know, okay, I'm taking your thing now.

Yeah, basically. They messed that up themselves,

but yeah. True, but he did what he had to do

and he just, you know, he basically took matters

into his own hands and interpreted things his

way so that he could end the war sooner than

Starfleet would have done. So I guess in conclusion,

Francisco, he follows the rules to get the job

done. He's willing to do what is necessary. I

think, can we agree on that one? Okay. Yes. All

right, then let's move to Captain Jean -Luc Picard,

commander of the Enterprise D &E through the

Star Trek franchise and probably a badass in

most ways. Look at first contact in holographic

bullets to the utter retardedness of insurrection.

And Nemesis, in my opinion, was just bad fan

fiction. I'm sorry, Shinzon was a terrible villain.

But moving on. Yes. Let's see what this guy had

done. He met the Q continuum and constantly battled

with him to... In essence, he did save humanity

at one point. But then again, what? Captain and

Starfleet, at least in the ones that we've seen

on screen, hasn't done that at one point or another.

Great diplomat. But also he's lost ships, notably

the Stargazer and the Enterprise D. Yeah. And

almost his third ship. So, it's not so much that

he's incompetent, he's up against instrumentable

odds, but he also has a wonderful crew backing

him. I mean, probably one of the most memorable

crews in Starfleet history, considering all the

economy, he had Data, the first android on the

ship, and he was instrumental in several big

things. I mean, it helped him defeat the Borg

the first time in The Best of Both Worlds Part

II. But also in descent part two when there was

the renegade collective of them led by lore So

Jean -Luc like I said has has done many great

things But he's also lost a fair number of crew

along the way in for example Q who? He lost 18

crew members to the Borg and Q chastises him

you've realized you're out here in space, right?

I mean if you're not willing to get a bloody

nose once in a while, you better go back home

And Jean -Luc always seems to be taken back by

crew losses the most outside of maybe Janeway

Because then again, it's not like she can go

up to the to the nearest star base Hey, I need

a bunch of red shirts. Can you help me out? Yeah,

where does Captain Picard start on this and we're

gonna start with Steve because I know this is

one of your favorite series and Leo It's been

a while since he's seen it. So let's see if we

can jog a couple of memories here Captain Picard,

I mean, despite the fact that he's had three

ships, I mean, the first one, yes, was his fault.

The second one, he wasn't on board. And so you

can't really attribute that loss to him. And

the third ship, well, he rammed the other ship.

So, yeah, you can attribute that to him. I would

say that... What's that? Technically, who was

behind the wheel was Marina Sertis. Both times

D and E crashed. It was counselor Troy driving.

So she can't drive. Not the teenager, not the

blind guy, not the... She can't drive. She's

a little bitter about that. In a stupid shrink.

Oh, I love it. That's why they give her the ship

in the last movie of that ships. Yeah, I mean,

there were quite a few different things that

Jean -Luc is famous for, and like I said before,

the Borg, the first meeting of them, and of course,

his recurring visits with them. You have the

fact that he's an archeologist, so there's a

lot of episodes focusing on that throughout the

series as well, because unlike most of the captains,

I do know that some of them, like Janeway, do

have the yearning to learn more. But I think

Picard is the most open to it. Yeah. The true

explore. I mean, that's where that's where it

is. He is the the the explorer, the scientist,

you know, that's. And I said. And I think that

kind of defines him more so than the others,

because that's what allows him to figure out,

for instance, cues games and. You know various

other things that he comes into combat with and

and that's also you know the same reason that

his crew could you know Yeah, and and his crew

are very much very much like -minded like Picard

is And that's also how they managed to save him

from the Borg I mean they they also have that

you know yearning and that was the first time

that event was ever took place That's the first

time you find out someone can be reversed from

the Borg Right, so I mean there's there's a lot

of defining moments with him And especially with

you know who could forget the most important

one When he was stabbed through the heart by

a Nasuken I mean, you know Q plainly showed if

That didn't happen. He would not be the captain.

We know today Alright, so Captain Picard, the

explorer, the scientist, the diplomat, maybe

not the best military commander, but has made

several notable accomplishments happen during

his command. Let's look at the devil's, let's

play devil's advocate for Captain Picard. What

are some of the worst decisions that he's made?

Going back to the Borg here's one to consider

or sorry during the events of hue it is found

out They could insert a virus That would destroy

the collective Picard chooses not to commit genocide

But thinking upon the trillions upon trillions

of lives unlike someone else unlike someone else

But once again, both by pathogen. What a coincidence.

So, OK, would that be considered a bad call?

Because look how strong the board were at that

point compared to where they were in Voyager's

timeline. Well, there's no way to predict who

will become a monster, unfortunately. OK, let

me see. Are there any other bad examples of commands?

during Picard's captainship that maybe said,

hey, maybe you should have played this a little

bit differently. It's kind of a tough one just

because some of the things I can plainly agree

with, but some of them are blatantly stupid,

meaning insurrection. Well, yeah. I'm gonna defy

Starfleet, my crew, and everything. I'm gonna

sit on this planet and live here. Because it's

awesome. It took me a while to turn around to

that movie, but I still have to take that with

a grain of salt. I can watch Nemesis before that

film. It's the only Star Trek movie I've only

ever watched once, and that was in theaters when

it came out. Yeah. I think I'm gonna make a personal

commitment to the listeners of this show, all

five of you, that I am never gonna watch that

movie again. Doug's review on Back Out of the

Glasses pretty much said it all. Yeah. Yeah,

that's good enough. I don't need to see it anymore.

One of us is gonna give in at some point this

year. I watched it earlier this year. That I

hadn't seen it since it came out before that.

I watched it like a few years ago, but yeah,

I hadn't seen it since before that Or you know

said that the actress saw it, you know theatrical

and then a few years ago and then So could we

maybe agree that insurrection was the bonehead

maneuver of Picard's career? You yeah, I guess

you could say that you know, that would have

made a good midseason finale Yeah, Picard quitting

and then and then them having to recruit him

again. That wouldn't, you know, it shouldn't

have been a movie. It didn't. I have a feeling

they were probably scrambling for scripts. They

were like, we need to make another movie now.

So what do you got? And how the hell do you even

begin the top for first contact? But then again,

that was Frakes's first movie and it was more

or less die hard in space. But it was fun. Yeah,

it was fun. It was great. And once again, showing,

giving the Borg the middle finger. Okay, so Picard

will say the choice of interfering with a society,

maybe not his best move, but, you know, it was

one planet when we look at Cisco, the Dominion

War. Okay, so let's move on to another captain.

And this is where I don't have a whole lot of

experience. I'm afraid it's going to be mostly

you two talking here. But the original captain

of the USS Enterprise, the man who started this

entire thing off, Captain James Tiberius Kirk,

defining moments, gentlemen. Well, I mean, I

mean, he's the the original, you know, swashbuckler

captain, you know, that's. This man loved to

take the rules and bend them very, very far,

but would not let them snap. He was pretty much

on his own, more so than the rest of the captains,

just because they didn't have long -distance

subspace, they didn't have starbases everywhere

or plentiful starships everywhere. It was more...

Lot more on their own Yeah, so he kind of had

to take the rules and and much like Janeway kind

of bend them as he saw fit from circumstance

to circumstance and Through that they both ended

up with very notable Starfleet histories That's

that's the thing about Kirk as much I mean I

love Kirk, you know, he's great You know fun

character to watch and you know and whatnot But

I mean I can honestly think of more of the things

that he did that were really questionable Well,

I mean besides being you know The the great Explorer,

you know soldier time traveler and diplomat.

I mean he did a lot of shady crap in between

Which some of the other captains probably would

not have done That being said he still is the

most highly decorated Starship captain in the

fleet right I Mean that the one thing that you

know someone You know I watched a video from

wacko media And he had a thing about Kirk and

he points out like the whole thing about he murders

the god Apollo And like, you know, throughout

the episode he's questioning, you know, it's

like, oh, it's like, I don't know, this is suspicious.

He wants my people to worship him and whatnot.

And there's this whole like, well, is he, isn't

he? Like, oh, I don't know, this could be a big

ruse. But I mean, it's pretty much sort of like

implied that like that was the god Apollo. And

like, he straight up, all he wants is a couple

of folks that were willing to like, you know,

stay there and give him his worship and whatnot.

And Kirk... like, destroys this, you know, his

power source, whatever, and murders this thing,

and then turns around and has the audacity to

be like, maybe he was really just a god, and

we owe him so much, you know, for influencing

us and leading us, and maybe we should have just

let him have his followers, like, you son of

a - you literally - you just killed this - ah!

Yeah, sorry, that's one that's just like, oh

- oh my god, man! Sorry, that one gets me a little

like worked up ever since it was pointed out

to me. I'm like, oh my god Yes, but I mean Kirk

also had a lot of other aspects too, I mean he

had Some honor in reference to the Romulan incursion

in in Federation space Yeah, the first one and

plus he has a deep -rooted vengeance towards

the Klingons throughout the entire series and

the films Yeah, absolutely. I would have to say

that would be his most hated species. So Kirk

was a racist. Oh, yeah, dude, he was all kinds

of racist. But, you know, it's really funny is

that, you know, you look at Kirk, I mean, that

was, you know, his most hated species, but you

turn around and Picard... It was like his favorite.

It was his pet like oh, I know and he knew how

to play the Klingons He was like, hey, I can

say this and they'll do this like But it was

also that time period, you know after Kirk and

his crew had You know sign the kid of records

and that's why wharf was on the ship. So I mean

It took Kirk putting that past him to Allow for

Starfleet's future to include wharf so that Picard

could even sit there and do that Yeah, yeah,

absolutely So what do you think were Kirk's ultimate?

Bonehead maneuvers that may have set things back

for the Federation. Is there anything on his

career? That's definitely a stain. Like I said,

we'll go with murdering the god Apollo There's

plentiful reasons between Timeline incursions.

Yeah Khan dumping him on a planet. He should

have just killed him. Yeah Yeah, let's dump him

here and allow him to get angry at me for a long

time. That's great You know he inadvertently

killed his friend 20 years before he encountered

him again You know honestly what he another one

that he did what he did the hairy mud was You

know, left him on, you know, it's like, they

left him on a planet with, like, the, like, dozens

and dozens of his, like, wife that nags at him

forever. You know? Like, okay, guys, yeah, so

you're gonna, really, you're gonna put him in,

you're gonna put him in the, in the, you know,

in the brig now, right? No, you're gonna leave

him there? No, Kirk believed in subtle torture.

Alright, same thing he did to Khan, I guess.

Yeah, he just dumps them on a planet that he

claims was, you know, he probably knew all along,

there's nobody there. And, you know, again, it's

his fault that his enterprise was damaged to

the point of disrepair and the Genesis project

being deported early and Spock dying. So Kirk

has all of that on his conscience. So I don't

think it's unfair to say that Kirk has a rap

sheet as long as his arm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, not

to mention, you know, all the, you know, the

boots that he's knocked, you know, in inappropriate

situations, you know, like slaves. Alright, then.

So there is your hero, ladies and gentlemen,

Captain James T. Kirk, murderer of gods, and...

He's still my favorite, so... But he's still

Captain Kirk! He still took down Soren in the

23rd... 24th century, so... And died from a fall.

Yes, that was quite pathetic. Considering what

he survived prior to that. I mean, it's like

Kirk getting taken out because he slipped on

a fucking banana peel It's like I tripped and

I broke my knee See that's see that seem to be

so much funnier if they inserted the banana peel

sound or or the goofy or the goofy fall sound

effect I'm just saying Next time you watch that

scene see if it's funnier. Well, I'm gonna edit

that in there just before he says it was fun

Alright, moving down to our next captain, and

I think this is where Leo is probably going to

dominate the conversation here, talking about

the guy who existed a hundred years before Kirk

and Spock, a test pilot who then became a captain

of one of the first starships built by humanity,

Captain Jonathan Archer of the NX Enterprise.

And I will say in retrospect, an underappreciated

theme song. to enterprise no i like it oh no

you know what screw you and i'm a fan of the

series and i i still like i'm i'm on that next

button right here okay get off my thank you i

still i still hated enterprise and everything

it stood for see now that i've had a chance to

speak with a super fan of it I can kind of see

what they wanted to go to with that series, and

that's kind of where we're going to go with this

bit of conversation. So as far as I understand,

Jonathan Archer, like I said, he was a test pilot

who said, hey, here's the first Klingon we've

met. I'll take him back to Kwonos and, you know,

the Vulcans. You know, that's cool. Going to

go. See you later. And he helped establish what

humanity could become as the series evolved.

I think from what I understand, he's the one

who had a lot of character growth and he made

a lot of bad calls. Yeah, he did. And it wasn't

necessarily his fault because humanity didn't

have any examples to follow. They didn't have

a whole lot of allies. I mean there was I think

there were there was a line specifically one

day he says one day maybe they'll create a rule

a set of rules or directives. And this prime

directive will help us. He didn't say that, but

he kind of alluded to, like, there is no prime

directive yet. He's literally just out there

doing what he has to think is the best thing

to do. and I think Archer gets a bad rap because

of the series because they were never really

comfortable in what they were doing because they

happened 200 years before a lot of the really

cool shit happened but there was all this time

travel that got stuck in the series and it turns

out they fucked up a timeline so bad it's now

a separate parallel universe because Earth in

the 23rd century doesn't have a canyon running

from Seattle to Florida And that's never mentioned

or the expanse or the zindi or, you know, so.

Archer or their their whole temporal Cold War

plot line, which, thank goodness, ended the show

did like if it had continued, they were out of

that and they would have tried to do things proper.

My my my favorite episode is that of that series

is the last one where you see Riker and Troy.

I. I only like it because that's how they ended.

No, I don't like that that's how they ended it.

That would have made a great season finale, not

the series finale. To make it the footnote to

a mediocre episode of Next Gen. But it's funny

because they completely botched the series just

by doing that, and I just... did not like that

show at all and that's just further cements it

to me uh that was a terrible terrible i mean

i mean like i said i think it would have made

a good season finale not as the show finale personally

um But what did Archer do necessarily that were

moments in his career that maybe really helped

define? What Starfleet would eventually become

because when the series ends it becomes the Confederation

of planets and Starfleet is beginning to become

established in the universe I mean, I mean he

was the I mean he was the basically I mean one

of the first dip I mean the whole way they set

it up I mean you know the Andorians and the Vulcans

were kind of at each other's throat and you know

he was I mean he was absolutely a uniter he was

someone that came in and just kind of that that

it was kind of neutral to the situation he kind

of had the benefit of just being there but you

know it was like well we don't trust them but

we trust you so we'll talk with you as the mediator

and, you know, and he, but he united a lot of

sides and kind of coordinated a lot of those

effort, you know, towards the end, those efforts

that did bring, start to bring together those

things, you know, the, the Fed, you know, the

birth, you know, the formings of the Federation.

Like, but, I mean, he, no, go ahead. I think

he opened a lot of doors diplomatically. Yeah.

In a lot of ways. I mean, Because he was the

first captain to be out there in Alpha quadrant

meeting all the like Tell rights and Dorian's

Vulcans, you know all these species and whatever

species flocks is from And there's just so many

things that you know He was a guy put in a situation

with no prior experience that he was a test pilot

Yeah, and a lot of his decisions. He was very

much like a child learning how to do things right

and wrong. And like I said, he made a lot of

bad calls. He polluted a planet's atmosphere

so bad, he like affected a civilization so much

that it could never go back to the way it was.

He made a lot of bad calls, but he was learning.

And he made some questionable calls, too. Like,

you know, there was the episode where he saw,

like, you know, two species that were developing,

one that was, like, considered kind of, you know,

primates or, you know, lower, you know, kind

of primates, and then, you know, people that

were advanced. But the people that were advanced

were suffering from this disease, but the primates

were showing signs of, like... of becoming the

dominant species and he, you know, had to make

that questionable call talking with the doctor

about, you know, because the doctor came up with

a cure for this disease. He's like, but is that

our right to interfere? You know, this might

be the natural evolution of this culture. You

know, these people are so, you know, and he had

to, you know, he had to make a lot of those questionable

calls without any kind of guidelines to go on.

So. Let's say his best Attribute perhaps was

helping establish what humanity could become

which would eventually become the articles of

the Federation he became Eventually what Kirk

and the car or what Kirk Picard and every captain

average would aspire to be the human ideal? At

the end of the series, so that was his best Well,

no, I wouldn't say necessarily at the end of

the series because he changed like in the third

season like, you know Earth gets a big terrorist

attack You know, as you mentioned giant Valley

cut, you know through through a chunk of it and

millions of people dead. And he gets, and that's

where he really makes some questionable decisions.

I mean, he changes, he like, you know, I am,

it's just like an animal backed up against the

wall and no longer, hey, I'm out here having

fun exploring space. It's, you know, I am fighting

for the survival of my entire species and I am

not going to put up with anything anymore. And

I love, there was one throwaway line in one episode.

They're like, you know, it seems like we're getting

attacked like every week. Yeah. So he was definitely

one of the ones who adapted the most. Now, Leo,

in your opinion, what was his worst decision?

The one that will stain his career? Like I said,

the one that will stain, I don't know, this is

one of those questionable ones I talk about that

I really think about. He was put in a situation

where he came across, like their warp core was

damaged and... They he came across these people

and basically left them strength stole their

warp core and left them Stranded in hopes that

maybe one day someone will go save them Because

they had to complete their mission. He literally

like stole someone else's warp core so they could

come and you know granted He was fighting not

just really ultimately not just for the survival

of his species But it really what ultimately

it led to the end of the temporal Cold War which

honestly in the bigger picture I guess, you know,

that whole event's probably been erased. And

those people are fine now. But I mean, that's

always one of the ones that was really the biggest,

like, ooh. I mean, he literally stole their means

of transportation and left them, you know, at

impulse in deep space. All right. So there we

have Captain Jonathan Archer, the guy who would

eventually help found the Confederation of Planets,

but... not necessarily the guy basically you

don't want to play survivor with this guy let's

move on to like i said one of my personal favorites

and i've like i said there are some questionable

decisions made with this starfleet captain the

first female captain uh to lead her own series

crew of the uss voyager We are talking about

Captain Katherine Janeway, a science officer

who would eventually get her own first deep space

command and her first mission to locate the Maquis

in the Badlands near Deep Space Nine, eventually

throw in 70 ,000 light years across to the Delta

Quadrant and will take 70 years to get her crew

home. However, if you crunch the math and if

you read how Warp 9 .9 works, in theory they

should have been home in a couple of weeks, but

I digress. Captain Janeway and I'm sorry I say

and it's if you look at the map of the David

make those maps technically it was a shorter

distance to the Wormhole in the gamma quadrant

and they wouldn't have had to go through Borg

space Anyway what happened what happened to the

writers in that one? I Guess they would have

had to go deal with the Dominion which would

have been probably just as bad but still shorter

So, Captain Janeway, some of her more notable

accomplishments, as I discussed in the beginning

of the show, defeated the Borg, which is a move

that could potentially have saved trillions.

But is she a war criminal for accomplishing that?

Also, established many new species contact with

the Federation than Kirk and Picard combined.

Because, well, she's in the Delta Quad. You can

pretty much throw a... You can swing a cat around

in the Delta Quad and hit a new species. She

was in that same position as Archer, pretty much.

Yeah. And although she had the technological

edge, I mean, one of the things that I've learned

through watching these series is... Technology

is either our friend or our enemy in Voyager.

It is the savior to everything. Imagine how many

times Belana, or Seven of Nine, has saved Voyager

using Technobabble 101. And, you know, that's

important to remember when Janeway solves problems.

It's usually technological. I mean, look how

she defeated the Borg, a neurolytic pathogen.

Because it's not Belana solving them. Yeah, so

it's always tech of some kind. So, one of the

things that she did accomplish is she helped,

like I said, defeated the Borg, helped a new

type of species be recognized by the Federation.

And much like Data and Picard, when they argued

for Data's sentence, look at Robert Picard's

character, the Doctor. Photonic beings being

recognized. And that, I can only imagine how

that would change You know, Holodex, and I'm

actually going to talk about Holodex and Janeway

a little bit later in terms of getting her crew

home as a bad move. Now, help me out here, guys.

What were some of her big accomplishments that

you can remember right off the top of your head?

I'd say she made a lot of technological advancements

for Starfleet, such as slipstream drive, integrating

Borg technology into Starfleet stuff. I mean,

those are two big things. Honestly, just being

able to diplomatically work with the Borg and

species 8472, is that what it is? Something like

that? That's impressive. But I guess she was

kind of put in a position of leverage to where

she could do that. It wasn't necessarily all

her diplomacy. I'd say maybe ending, um, civil

wars. Look how she united the, um, Hiroshima.

Yeah. Um, a species that was on the brink of

cultural decline because the hunter -gatherer

thing, giving them holodeck technology, but that's

another thing that should be noted as a bad call.

Yeah, that one kind of came back. I just watched

that episode, just came back and bit them. So...

What? But was that a bad call because that resulted

in further development of the idea of the photonic

life form. So, I mean, it kind of came back and

bit them in the in the butt a little bit, but

it also led to another positive thing. Yeah,

so. It's debatable the but the fact that she's

interfered with so many societies But but once

again, you're 70 ,000 light years from your bosses

and there's a great line from aliens and where

Burke is talking to Ripley and she's taught and

he says this is a 20 million dollar Reactor or

whatever. She's like you can fucking bill me.

Yeah way kind of has the same attitude I'm 70

,000 light years from home you could bite me

I have to do what I have to do. Well and you

know she does like you know while she does interfere

and make questionable decisions a perfect example

of that was forget exactly what season it was

but somewhere towards the the mid end. uh...

there's the the uh... they run across the other

ship with the other captain he, kind of, says

to her, it's like, how many times have you broken

the time prime directive? and she's like, oh,

skated it a few times and he's like, yep, me

neither that's crazy talk, you know, I mean,

you can see, like, where I mean, that guy was,

you know, just completely I mean, he was, like,

you know, using aliens as fuel, you know, there's

Yeah, I mean Captain Ransom and the Equinox they're

in my opinion there that's what Voyager should

have been I mean Voyager it would you compare

it to a series like say Battlestar Galactica

where they're running low on resources. They

have no allies and They don't know where they're

going There's so many things that could go wrong.

I mean, in Basel or Galactica, they start to

run out of food, they run out of water, and eventually,

they start eating algae. Like, they start raiding

planets for algae. And Voyager, they're sitting

there, sitting on the holodeck, hanging out in

the French Quarter bar, or, hey, let's go to

this little Irish sea town and fall in love with

holograms. And yet, look at Captain Rantum's

crew, using aliens for fuel. They've had to turn

off their emergency medical holograms. Subroutines

like hey state to do horrible things. They're

sonic showers Yeah, I mean there's so many things

that the equinox did that very well could have

been Voyager that more or less was Battlestar

when you think about it, so I think Janeway got

a lot of a pass But like I said, she did so many

great things in terms of bad things for her career

This one like I said was brought up very very,

very much to me last night, and it makes sense.

A lot of Voyager episodes begin with that, where

power supplies are running low, where... eating

leola stew for the last three days well turn

off the fucking holodeck quit playing parisi

squares and convert holodeck two or three or

whatever the hell it is into a hydroponics bay

another research lab maybe because the holodecks

run on replicator stuff and if the food isn't

real if you were to eat a bunch of turkey in

say the holodeck and step out into the hallway

your stomach is going to decompress and you're

going to end up in sickbay pretty goddamn quick

So Voyager didn't manage their resources as well

as they could have. They had a lot of creature

comfort. I wonder what the power difference is

between making a hologram turkey that you can't

eat versus a actual replicated turkey. I wonder

how much more a real turkey would cost than just

a photonic image of a turkey. God that sounds

so weird. Yeah, I never thought the sentences

you'd never thought you'd say out loud. That's

But yeah, I mean it's something I think Janeway

is a woman who adapted very, very quickly. She

was a very motherly figure, dedicated to get

her crew home, but she was also very manic -depressive

in how she'd react. She came across as a complete

psychopath at times. That was partly just due

to the writers. She was schizophrenic. Yeah,

there's just so many inconsistencies with that.

And like I said, I love Janeway. It's my favorite

series, but I also see the flaws in her career.

I mean, there's one point where Voyager gets

trapped in the upper atmosphere of a planet where

time is passing so quickly, a civilization rises

in a matter of like a week. So Voyager has interfered

with God knows how many species caused how many

wars, even when they had their own time travel

thing known as the Year of Hell and the Krenim

Imperium. Yeah. Look at what happened there,

how much Voyager fucked things up. An entire

species was wiped out at one point, and so many

people died. And Voyager, despite the fact where

they were, lost remarkably few crew. When you

look at, say, TNG to DS9, I mean, in terms of

main characters, we lost Kes, who cares? And

she came back. That was actually a blessing.

Yeah, I mean, weak character. I like the actors,

I honestly like - You know, I honestly liked

Kes towards the beginning, but the longer she

went on, the more kind of dry and boring and

monotone she got. Yeah. And just less interested.

By the time she was leaving, I was like, oh,

please be gone. Yeah, just, you know, pack your

shit and don't let the door hit you on the way

out. So there are so many things that I felt

Janeway's crew could have did better. Like Leo

said, it would have been easier to cut through

the Delta or cut through the gamma quadrant and

get to the wormhole to get home. Um, but you

know, there, there are problems with, with Janeway's

command. And like I said, is she a war criminal

for defeating the board the way she did? I mean,

could those lives have been saved? It's possible,

but you have to weigh the checks and balances.

Was it worth saving? So to speak so I felt Janeway

could have maybe got her crew home faster and

more efficiently if they'd given up some of the

creature comforts they got lucky so Being the

motherly figure was very good. She kept a great

number of her crew alive I think she only lost

20 by the time we're said and done Look on TNG

and count how many redshirts die in a season

or under Kirk's command how many people just

get tossed aside like friggin rag dolls, so What

would we say is the word on Janeway? I would

probably say that overall, I'd say she did what

she had to do to just get her crew, which ended

up being basically her family to get them home.

Despite all odds, despite all things she encountered,

she was doing what was best to get them all home.

What captain you think honestly sorry I'll say

honestly she I mean she has a lot of things kind

of in common with with Archer and that you know

being out there in unexplored space and you know

working against odds of this is the mission and

I have to do what I have to do to get it done

you know well if you want to say that Kirk did

that kind of thing too well I mean we're all

out on their own yeah but I mean really like

you know Yeah to an extent, you know, there's

different like I said, you know as far as Archer

is a little different because there was just

no one else out There's on our side, you know

that she's in a different situation But you know

still meeting lots of new things and having to

deal with making Decisions because there's not

you know other options Now One of the bits that

came out of a conversation I had over this weekend

is that one of the other Starfleet captains that

I think would have made it home out of all the

other ones above anybody else might have been

Cisco, if put in Janeway's position, he would

have had fewer allies along the way, but I think

he would have gotten the crew home a lot more

efficiently. Yeah, he was he was definitely a

real once I set my mind to it. It's happening.

Do you need to get the ready room door? Just

curious. Sorry. Come. I love it. Well, as long

as we're not at yellow alert, we're good to go.

So we've talked about Cisco. We've talked about

Kirk. We've talked about Picard. We talked about

Janeway. We talked about Archer. So we have our

five captains here, and we'll just touch very

briefly upon J .J. Abrams, Captain Kirk, who

really hasn't established himself just yet. Does

he make some questionable decisions? Yes, they're

very impulsive, but they work. But I think that's

because of the crew he has with him. He has the

conscience. He has the logicals. It's like the

original Kirk, who had the conscience with bones,

the logic with Spock, and they all work together

in this triforce of awesomeness. Um, so I think

JJ Abrams Kirk is going to make some very tough

calls and I think he's going to lose a lot more

people along the way. I just, I have that feeling.

I have a feeling his command will be filled with

death, but greater glory for the future of the

Federation. He's like, I think he's going to

make a lot of tough calls. Well, and also he

was, he was thrown into command six years earlier

than the prime timeline Kirk. Yeah. So he's a

lot younger a lot more, you know rough around

the edges whereas The prime Kirk Had to deal

with a lot of other issues. I mean he was on

the far get for you know a certain point in time

I mean he was on the Republic he was on various

other ships before He has his experience just

jumping straight to captain Well, and that's

definitely a big part of it, you know, kind of

why, you know, there's Kirk in what I call D

-Bag Kirk, you know. Because, you know, Prime

Kirk had, you know, grew up with his father and

loving, you know, encouraging Starfleet background.

Uh, but then, you know, the new Kirk, you know,

he was raised and it was in like a deleted scene,

which like, I don't know. I thought it kind of

helped explain it. I guess they ultimately decided

it was unneeded, but like he was raised by the

abusive uncle, which is why like he's, you know,

stole the car and drove it off the cliff, which

still is destroying history and horrible, but

he was doing it to get back at this stepdad.

Yeah, whatever. Yeah, something. Somebody not

not a nice loving person like his father would

have been. So, you know, he's got a little bit

I mean, but you know, that's not to say that

the Prime Kirk isn't a little bit of a d -bag

too, you know, obviously but shown by murdering

gods and bang slaves, but But this Kirk did kind

of redeem himself towards the NFL he did he did

So hopefully we'll see where ever JJ Abrams takes

this new character And I don't know, have either

of you been, have you, are you even aware of

this? You know the IDW comic, Star Trek comic

that's coming out? You seen this at all? The

one with crossing with Doctor Who, or? No, no,

no, not that one. No, no, it's, they're actually

taking - It's based on this timeline, isn't it?

It's the new timeline, revisiting original series

episodes. So like, you'll get two issues that

will be this episode. And it's in it, you know

things play out similarly, but not quite the

same And I've only read it took it took me a

while to get my hands on the first issue because

like I was gonna buy it and someone was like

I don't get that like, okay So I put it back

down and then I heard about what it was. I'm

like, oh, I want to read that It took me a while

to hunt down number one. So I'm kind of you know

behind on it, but it's really neat Just a different

kind of concept You probably get it on, you know,

the online stuff if you know you can't You know

the the digital store or whatever if you don't

have a commerce shop that you can get it from

All right, so now that we've had a chance to

look at all these captains We looked at the pros

their cons notable accomplishments and you know

some other points for them Who do you think emerges

as the best of Starfleet? I mean over this discussion

I Started out being go Captain Janeway. At the

end of the day, my decision has changed. I may

have to lean more towards Captain Sisco, and

the reasoning for that being he gets the job

done, and one line changes it for me. A guilty

conscience is a small price to pay, considering

how many lives were saved. So that's where my

vote goes. And Steve, let's go to you. Who is

your vote with all the evidence in front of you

as the best Starfleet captain? I still say Picard.

And I say that just because he went through a

lot of granted a lot of different situations

at Cisco, but he ended up doing a lot of the

same stuff as Cisco. With the exception of the

Dominion So I mean I I just feel like he's more

of a well -rounded captain All right, and Leo

where do you sit I? Mean it's you know It's very

close for me, and it was and it still is very

close. I am still I'm still a Cisco I think you

know I think I rate him just just I mean, but

we're talking like a hair above You know very

it's very Picard is absolutely like a wonderful,

you know exemplary You know symbol of a captain

but I think Cisco just is a little bit more gets

the job done to me All right So I think we got

two votes Cisco one vote Picard none for any

of the younger captains and my decision was a

turnover given what we talked about. So guys,

I definitely gotta thank you for being a part

of this. Leo, thank you for taking time out of

your very busy schedule. Oh, thank you guys.

And we're actually gonna have you back on our

next show and me and Steve talked about this

previously. We'll be back. in two weeks Beginning

so our next show should be out around the 23rd

or so probably the 24th of this month and the

next time we're gonna talk about the ships of

Star Trek looking from the Enterprise to the

Defiant the runabout and stuff you may never

have heard of like the steamboat class the Akira

class You know just what makes Star Trek cool

in terms of you know How you get to fly around

the Alpha Quadrant in style so to speak? So,

for Future Imperfect, once again brought to you

by SFI .org, Starfleet, the world's largest Star

Trek fan club, and ThinkGeek .com for their wonderful

support from the replicator, we have been...

Steve Megatron Phillips. And with special guest...

That sci -fi guy. I've been Mike the Birdmandod

saying, live long! and broadcast. We'll catch

you guys again next time right here on ThisWeekendGeek

.net.